Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #048 Paul Granger-"Ambassador of Christ,"

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Crushing Strongholds #048 Paul Granger-"Ambassador of Christ," · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Crutch Strongholds.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Mickey.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I have an amazing guest joining us.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Paul Granger.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to bring him to the table.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: He has a lot, a lot to offer.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And Paul is a volunteer minister in the volunteer ministry.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me, I said that crazy, but and Paul is learning what it is to be an ambassador for Christ.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I can guarantee you it's in a lot of significant ways.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can almost bet money on that.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um so I want to um bring Paul in and have him introduce himself, tell us about himself.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Paul, thank you for joining us on Crushing Strongholes today.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's great to be here.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to have conversation.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I really love um, you know, in the little bit we've already connected, when you know you're gonna talk to someone that like you're just gonna resonate on a lot of things, it's just so life-given.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! I'm excited too.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I saw your um your profile and then I went to your website and I just I literally, like I said, excuse me, before we started recording that, your website is is fantastic.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I love that um you write with your children, you write your books with your kids, and that that just is amazing in itself.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing I want to talk to you about is something I've really just I've actually spent a little bit of time doing is doing the front portion.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've been listening to your episodes, and man, that is so exciting.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you're doing.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: You want to tell us how you came about doing that?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, man.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And what that's all about the front portion series.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a while since I've made one of those, but I think about it often because the the core of it is, you know, I live in a community that uh has had to navigate uh a number of hardships and has had to navigate uh a significant amount of chan transition.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes there aren't spaces to process what's happening and what that means.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's two things that are going on in that.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: One is uh we wanted to create a space to go deeper into some of these topics, whether it's education or housing uh or race or any uh number of things that were impacting neighbors, but two to do it in such a way that uh feels neighborly.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason it's the front porch, and sometimes recording on a front porch is tricky, especially if it doesn't have a front porch.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: We had a few of those.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: But uh there's this idea of front porch culture versus back porch culture.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And front porch culture is you uh you understand your house as a part of a community and relationally oriented.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: That when you want to relax, you go out there, and if you're on your front porch, that means if a neighbor walks by, you're gonna end up having to interact.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: So there's an expectation of connection, even if it's just a hello or a wave.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's back porch culture, which is your home is more your sanctuary.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you have to park in the front, it's to go to the front to the front door, but where you spend your time is in the backyard.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um you might have a six-foot privacy fence and it is kind of to get away.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's not that one is right and one is wrong, but it's important to know the values in each and the impacts of each.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And when you live in a community like mine that has traditionally been front porch culture, and when it is so densely populated, when that is absent, when someone is separating themselves out, it could be felt, uh, it could have an impact.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh we wanted to kind of come in the opposite spirit of that and be visible, be present, and have very comfortable organic conversations.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And the real heart of it is just creating a space for those guests.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the host is a friend of mine and I.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we try to minimize ourselves as much as possible and put as much focus on giving that person a chance to share, to process openly, um, to ask questions that aren't tapping into them being an expert, but tapping into them being a person with experiences and thoughts and emotions and feelings and hopes and dreams.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what's what's encouraging for me is uh there are practical reasons why I had to stop doing that, but those values have transitioned into my podcast.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that same deal.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't happen on a front porch, though some of them have, but uh it's that still cultivating a space to authentically and uh genuinely process uh some of the hard questions of life.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I watched several of those.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I was like once I watched one, I was hooked right there.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, man, it you're you're right, because when I go out front, we barbecue and we have a jacuzzi and we did the, you know, we even do outdoor theater in our backyard.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: We do a lot, you know, because we have kids, my grandkids, and you know, we do all kinds of stuff like that.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: But when you go out front, it's like um, you know, somebody walks by, you say, you know, you just say that occasional hello, or you see your neighbor across the street, hey.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I a couple of my neighbors, you know, we'll see them and we'll we'll chat, you know, and talk and stuff, but um, it's not as big of a community event as if you're inviting someone to your house and having them uh over for a gathering.
• 5:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I feel like you miss that.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And when I walk, even when I walk around our neighborhood, um, I'm kind of a social butterfly, so I don't mind saying hi to people, but some people just kind of, you know, they just kind of walk the they don't even want to acknowledge that you're there and it's like, wow, you know, and um not very personable, you know.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I enjoy it when people walk by and I always try to make contact with them.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I say, hello, how are you?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: How's your day?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: or I like your dog, or I always say something, you know, to try to engage in conversation.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that because my grandma, my it true story, my grandma used to sit on the front porch.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we used um she had a swing, like a a um not like a big swing, but just like a wooden old rickety sit-down bench swing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that thing I used to think you she used to say, now don't don't hit the wall and don't flip it over, you're gonna pinch your fingers, you know.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was when I was growing up, and then when my kids got there and they said uh I said, Don't hit the wall, and don't everything she said, I said, but we spent so much time sitting out there just talking, and the neighbors would come over and hang out and talk with us, and it was real enjoyable.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, those were good moments, you know, brought a good memory.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was really interesting that um you were doing that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that doing that I think helps build like it the community unity that that's needed.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's wonderful.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I wish like that was happening all around.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: That would be great, you know?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and what was really striking to me that I didn't notice at first is that nearly every episode you can hear construction in the background.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the community was actively growing and changing.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but what came with that was often a sense of disconnection.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: You would think that more people, there's going to be more connection, but it seemed like it was the opposite.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so I agree with you, these kind of spaces, and it doesn't have to be recorded, it's it can be what you just described.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like anybody who has a communal space, whether it's just a stoop or it's a bench across the street in the park, can cultivate space to process with people to engage.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the other thing I'll say, because somebody listening can be like, well, that's great for you podcast people who don't mind being on a microphone and talking, but I'm an introvert and I and I really don't want to interact.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an introvert.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: I hate small talk.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the wild thing is me sitting on the front porch and having to interact with people that I don't know because there's a lot of foot traffic.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll see a lot of people I don't know.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: That wouldn't be something I would choose.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing that God had impressed on me is that wherever I'm living, this is true.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: But particularly living in this community, uh, I was given an invitation to love my neighbors.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the ways that I knew I need to love my neighbors is respect the front porch culture that predated me, uh, and to create opportunities for me to lean into that.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And here is the re-enc really encouraging thing for the introverts out there who are like, I I kind of I'm scared of interacting with people, is um God can do something through you that you wouldn't be able to muster yourself, right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: You got the story of Moses being called, and God said, You're gonna go talk to Pharaoh.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Moses' response was, I can't talk well, therefore you must be wrong.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he pushed back on God several times.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: God knew he couldn't talk well, he didn't pick them because he could talk well, he picked him because he wanted to pick them and he could make him talk.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't tell you how many times I've left an interaction with a neighbor and realized, how in the world did I just do that?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because that was a whole lot of small talk.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: I hate small talk, and yet somehow that was a really life-giving moment.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I think you know, what you shared about cultivating community, that's needed everywhere right now.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's needed everywhere.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can't, I don't think there's a single place on earth that could not benefit from more community cultivation, but we all are a part of that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I I have a cute little story.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some some neighbors like probably like almost two blocks away from us, were walking, and um my neighbor was cutting down his tree, and so she she knocked on his door, he didn't answer, so she knocked on my door and she said, Hey, do you think your neighbor would mind if we had one of these branches?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh no, go help yourself.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here he already gave them to me so you can have them, you know, if you need them, which is kind of funny because he had already said, Hey, I'll cut these up, you could burn them in your fireplace because we we burn ours still.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, you know, no problem, take them.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we were conversating and she told me what she was gonna do with the branches.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: She was gonna make them put them on her front porch and make a decoration and light it, you know, put lights on it.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, well, that's wonderful, that's really great.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, uh I'm gonna drive by in a couple days and see what it looks like, you know.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even know where she lived, but I knew I'd know where she lived yet quite because she had the branches, you know.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, well, that now I'm gonna know where she lives, you know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So then a couple weeks later, I run into them in the grocery store.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And had we not made that encounter, they would have not even known me.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they're I was like, Oh, hey, how are you doing?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Great.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I go, I go, um, I loved seeing those branches on your front porch, you know.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Yeah, we're getting ready to move them to the back because we want to change some, change up our decoration.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, But we love them, we just absolutely love them.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it built um a relationship now, so there's a safe place.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So now, like when they walk by my house or I walk by their house, it's a comfort zone.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes when you walk by a stranger's house, you just don't know, you know.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But when you build that relationship with your neighbors where you can at least say hello or wave or whatever, it it does build, it makes it more of a safe haven community to live in too, as well as the unity as well.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I enjoyed making that connection with them, if that makes any sense.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 11:27
  unknown: That's good.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So but so in your book, you're you talked about some hardships.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um I want to know what your story is.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: You do you write all of these books, you're an ambassador for Christ.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I love I love your um profile, but I want to know more about who you are and what you do.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's funny because uh there are many books.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and I have been struck by how many of them actually lean into the idea of hardship and struggle.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I know why that is.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's because I have often been in a place of hardship or struggle as I've been writing them.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so even thinking about this conversation and thinking about your question, I have my normal go-to stories, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: That I tell if uh someone's like, well, tell me, you know, where's where's somewhere you saw God work or what's something hard you went through?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and and those are good stories.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, those are hard stories, but I've seen God work through them, everything from uh, you know, navigating miscarriage with my wife to uh a toxic work environment to unjustly losing a job.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um but as I as I sit here now, what's on my mind is you know, there's there's hardships that I'm navigating that um that I could get into and some that I couldn't, but together they create this general sense of I don't know, dismay, hopelessness, sadness at times, like in the hardest moments.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and especially if those are long-term struggles, things I've been praying about for a long time.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's hard on its own.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: But when you feel like God's inviting you to continue to function in the midst of that, when you're like the Apostle Paul and you're saying, All right, God, I've got this thorn in my front flesh that's keeping me from being able to do ministry well, I need you to take it out.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he's praying three times because he's convinced that he cannot serve God well as long as this hardship exists.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then God doesn't remove it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like that, that is a hard place.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, last year I about a quarter of the way into the year, I found that I had already self-published four books on Amazon and felt like God was inviting me to write a book a month, uh, self-publish a book a month.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and I felt such a peace about it that I I stepped forward into it, one, even though I had no idea if that was even possible.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And two, and this is important to your question, I had no capacity.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because 2024 had already been a year that had drained me.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'd been writing blogs, and one of my blogs that I think about often is uh this idea of uh running out of fuel.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I got it brought to my mind the analogy of uh when a plane is flying, they fill it with fuel first, so they know they have enough.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: They figure out how far they can go in the fuel and they make sure they don't go further than that.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: If they for some reason hit a storm and use up a lot of fuel, they'll land sooner.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: But a plane can't fly if it doesn't have enough fuel, it will crash.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Except in the scenario of planes that need to stay aloft, uh, there are systems in place for such planes where they can be refueled in the air.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, uh the pilot of those planes know that they are gonna have to continue to fly way beyond the fuel capacity, and they are gonna have to rely on a source of fuel that is outside the norm.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And usually when they're getting refueled, they can go inside, they can take a break, they can rest.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, they got to keep flying, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And 2024, I was feeling like that plane.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to land so bad.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, God, I've been long out of fuel, but God kept refueling me in the air, in the air.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I come to 2025, and I'm like, God, I have no capacity.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I had been navigating is uh uh I I have a podcast episode that goes into more detail, so I won't go into it now, but my wife has been navigating some pretty traumatic things, including uh nearly 20 years ago, uh, she had an experience where uh she blacked out and uh suddenly felt like she was in hell.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was the realest thing she had ever experienced.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: It it was like time was elongated.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was it was it was torturous.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was enough that she had to take um at least half a year off school.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was traumatic enough that every year, at least once in the year, she wakes up in the middle of the night feeling like it's happening again.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that has been incredibly challenging for her to navigate.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um but also as her husband, it's been something that I've had to figure out how to navigate.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there's all the reverberations that can come from that, the fears and the anxieties, the impact on day-to-day life.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I've been uh full-time volunteer ministry since 2018.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm living a very untraditional lifestyle, haven't gotten a paycheck since then.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of financial fears or stresses or anxieties or unsolicited input from others that can make life generally hard.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm trying to live as uh an ambassador of Christ, meaning that it's not that I have a specific task or a specific role, but every day I wake up and say, all right, God, how can I represent you well?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And He gives me a lot of different things, which means life has been incredibly inconsistent.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I live in a community that carries a lot of struggles and needs, and I'm invited to care for folks in some really hard spaces.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so this list, I felt like there was a lot that was needed from me, and my fuel is exhausted, and God wouldn't let me land.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then I come into 2025 and God's like, hey, what if you self-published a book a month?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what I came to realize God was doing was not this is not about content generation.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Let me let me just say that just out the gate.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because that's normally what writing a book is about.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I knew from the start that these would not be about me becoming a bestseller, these would not be even about income generation.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but these might not even ever be read.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's the sense that God gave me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: But he was inviting me to process what I was navigating, but to do so in a way that I was willing to do to make it public, transparent, vulnerable.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of times people will get the cleaned up version of the stories, but people won't always put themselves out there when they're still in the mess, when they're still struggling.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: One of the early books I did was called um it last year was Rejecting Joy No Longer.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it came from a place where I did not feel joy.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was getting a little, I was getting pretty mad at God about it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, God, I've been trying to serve you.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Why aren't you giving me joy?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I was in a space where worship was happening, and there was this young lady next to me who was just exuding worship.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she was in it, and I could just see it all over her, and I and I was just standing there.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't even singing, definitely didn't have my hands up or anything like that.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this little sense of like, what if you just started doing what she was doing?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, no, no, I don't want to, I don't feel like it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and it wasn't that God was saying, if you do that, then something will happen, but God was trying to confront me that what if that was an opportunity for me to experience joy and I rejected it?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: What if the issue isn't that God is not giving me joy?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's that joy is right there and it's not the joy I want.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the way that I want.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that that that wrecked me a little bit.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like God was inviting me to spend the next 30 days uh on one verse a day dealing with joy, and then just genuinely, honestly, vulnerably, transparently process it and then put it out there to others.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not clean, polished, hey, I'm a good Christian, but yeah, I'm rejecting joy.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't like this verse right now.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I found that there was so much that I wrote that was coming from that space.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was not because I had figured things out, it was not because I had solved things, it's because I was mad at God or I was confused at what God was doing, or I was done.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like one of the last ones I wrote is based off Psalm 13.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's called How Long, Lord?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And in that psalm, David has gone through so much hardship for so long that he says, How long, Lord, will you forget me forever?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: How long will you hide your face from me?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and day and night have sorrow in my heart?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's not a worship song.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's a lament.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Aren't you supposed to say God's amazing and everything's good?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: But what David knew is that who God was and his love had space for him to be raw and upset and call God out on what he thought God was or wasn't doing.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And what David also knew is that just because he did not feel like God was showing up did not mean he wasn't.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so at the end, you get these two verses where he claims who God is.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we take that as, oh, we're just supposed to have positive thinking when things are happening, just be, you know, optimistic.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that's what David was doing.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that he actually believed verses six and seven that said God is his rock and his shield.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was more in the framework of the person who Jesus encountered somewhere in the gospels that uh said, I believe, help me in my unbelief.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, like those are two incongruent things.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: But what he was saying is like, I I recognize somehow that you are real, that this is true.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Experientially, right now, my logic, my emotions, my body, All these things does not does not track with it.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Does not, but I'm going to choose to go for that little piece.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what David was saying, and I think that's what God was inviting me to do.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is as I was at the end of myself, as I did not want to keep serving, keep on writing, keep on waking up some days, uh, that God was still gently inviting me.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that part of that invitation was to be public with it so that someone who feels alone in their struggle, someone that feels like they are suffering and nobody gets it, might stumble on even a sentence and say, Oh, I can't he gets it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: He put words to to what I'm experiencing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, maybe I'm not crazy.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm not alone.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's who I that's I I I want to show up like that.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: But if I'm transparent, uh the end of the story is not then I got to book 12 and everything was better.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, book 12 was the most heartbreaking book because uh you were you and I were talking earlier about books and my kids being a part of it, and you were talking about a book about a cat.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh my my last book last year is called Missing Chloe.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in November of last year, through a series of events, man, I might even start crying now, talking about it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um our cat of 14 years.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like that I had pets all my life.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: She was not a pet.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she was a comfort to me when I needed comfort, like it's just one of those kind of pets.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Some people know what I'm talking about, and more like family, more like family, and and she just walked out the door one day, and that was it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we didn't know if she was alive or dead, and and it's that unknowing that was so hard, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and and so our family was struggling to process that um and we were in different places, and the way we processed it is we said, well, let's just imagine, let's just imagine that um there is a good story that she is living.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: What might that story be?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: And each family member had an opportunity to tell their story of what happened to Chloe.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: And one story had her coming home, one story had her dying.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: One story had her not coming home, but finding uh a new family.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just and it's you know, some of the kids made it into a comic book form, some drew pictures, and but uh, if I'm honest, uh I uh man, I was so mad at God in December because I had been trying to serve him all year.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I had written a book a month, I had continued to serve in other ways, some some huge ways, with uh particularly a friend of mine who's older and and wrestling with dementia, and so many things that needed so much from me.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and not only did God not reward me with that, not only did God meet some of the very core needs that I'm like, God, can you just can you just refuel in this area?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: He took my cat away.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Literally the night before she went missing, I was I had gone through some really just uh depleting things.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And she would do this thing where she'd come up to me and like stretch her front paws up on my leg to tell me to pick her up, and then I'd drape her over my shoulder and she was just rubbing her head against me, and I just remember like holding her and being like, Thank you, God, like and through for the last 14, 15 years, whenever I've had a hard day, I I always I always knew she would at some point come and sit with me, and then she was gone the next day.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, God, what are you doing?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just told you.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this is just a cat, but you knew, you knew.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: And here we are in 2026.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that pain, a lot of those struggles aren't solved or fixed.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: The end of the year of books wasn't, and now I am restored.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and now the book I'm working on, which I'm annoyed at God that I'm working on it, is rejecting hope no longer.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because in the same way that I was rejecting joy, I'm sitting here getting mad about how hopeless I'm starting to feel because everything I've tried doesn't work.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I've asked him to help, but he didn't do it, and things keep getting worse, and I don't know what's going to happen this year.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm getting mad at God about the lack of hope.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And meanwhile, scripture is like, no, hope is there.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, maybe God's not the issue, maybe hope's not the issue, maybe you're rejecting it because it's not the hope you wanted, it's not in the way you wanted.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm I'm three days in.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that I'm doing it is um I want to be really transparent and vulnerable.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I really wish I wasn't doing it this way, but um, I'm going on live on Facebook, and I have all the verses that I searched for the word hope and verses, found 30 of them without reading them too deeply, so I could go in completely fresh.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: And each time I will pray and then I will pull out a random verse, and I won't know what I'm about to read until I read it, and then I read it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: In the past three days, I've laughed every time because there is something in it that is just hilarious to me.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like one verse said, Because we have this hope, we are very bold.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I laughed because I'm like, I do not feel very bold, nor nor do I want to be very bold.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Today's verse talks about how we eagerly wait.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard enough to wait.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not eager to wait, though.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: I begrudgingly wait, but I don't want to eagerly wait.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: And what's happening is God is pushing me to be honest with myself and with him as I process it, and then he's most likely going to say, Okay, now let others into your mess.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's I really I do want to just encourage people because we live in a culture, and a lot of our churches operate this way, where in order to have value, you need to be put together, you need to be an expert.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not either of those things, if you're struggling, if you think you're weak in some way, um you you need to not be at the table.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: You have nothing to offer.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's not true.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, scripture literally says the opposite of it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in many places, but most notably when the apostle Paul says to a group of people, he's like, Hey, look, it is this is the the me Paul version.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not verbatim, but he's like, Hey, look, a lot of you weren't smart when I gave you.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of you weren't gifted, a lot of you weren't skilled, and God chose you.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he chose you to shame the smart, the wise, the the strong, because uh when something happens, when God works, if we uh if we do believe we're smart enough and strong enough and skilled enough and all that, we might boast in ourselves.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: But if you know you're not, if you know you are out of fuel and you have nothing left, not even the desire, but you're still showing up, then when something happens, you know that it was God and not you.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I want to encourage people the the uh qualification for being used by God is for God to use you and you to not reject it.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's it.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you can the ability to not reject doesn't take any strength at all.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a willingness to just go.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: If God calls you, you just go.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: You don't ask the questions that you want to be, you'd be like, well, wait a minute, I got a list of questions I got here for you first.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you can give me all the right answers, then I'll think about it or I'll show up, you know.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we just have to step out on faith and just do it anyway.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you you you talked about being mad at God because I've talked to so many people, and so many people are like, oh, I've never been mad at God.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, I don't know what world you're living in, because I'm pretty sure you probably maybe have.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, are you sure about that?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, when I when I talk about, you know, like certain situations in my life, and um as we conquer uh conquer and um get over strongholds that that hold us back from our God-given purpose, I feel like um being mad at God was part of that recovery.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had to get mad at God.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when when my when he took my mom, and now my grandma has dementia, I take care of her.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: My mom had dementia, you know, and then you know, and it's just like I've had my grandma for seven years.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't honestly, we didn't think she was gonna be around this long, and now but now she's on hospice, and you know, like the long the by really does exist.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd always heard about it, but I didn't know I was gonna live it, you know.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my goodness, Lord, and um just you know, when I talk about when I talk about being mad at God, I'm like, man, are is that okay?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are we allowed to be mad at God?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that's okay?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, you know, Jesus, Jesus got mad.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus clipped tables, you know, he showed he he didn't sin in it, but he got mad, you know.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, so I think God understands when we're mad.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: He knows we're gonna get mad.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: He I mean that's part of an emotion that he gave us, you know, is anger.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to choose how we, you know, reciprocate it with how we our what our reaction is to what we're doing and why we're being mad about things.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I know with hope and um exactly what you're saying with the hope and the joy, it's like some days I get up and I'm like, I just really, you know, I'm trying really hard to have just be have a peaceful day, you know.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And just one thing will, you know, go off kilter.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a little bit OCD, so I have a, you know, I kind of I kind of drive people crazy in that area.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: But um I'm like, oh gosh, and I get up and something's like not where it's supposed to be or how it's supposed to be.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I can either let this affect me or I can let it go.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or I could just, you know, I turn on worship and just you know, soak in, you know, worship music and serve the Lord and read scripture and pray, you know, all of those things that they say, well, go do this and that you you'll feel better.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um sometimes I think, man, I don't know if God's listening, you know, where is he?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Where is he in this?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that they say, you know, the teacher's always quiet during the test, but I'm like, how long is this test gonna last?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I can't I just turn it in already, I'll take the grade you give me right now if you just give me an answer.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I told that to somebody, and they're like, oh man, if you just hand in your paper and if you know God gives you the answer right then and there, that'd be great, you know.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes we feel like we need that, even though God's timing uh, you know, he knows what's best for our us more than we know for ourselves.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he knows the end of our story, knows where we're going, everything we're gonna do.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's hard to be patient sometimes in that waiting, and that waiting and that waiting and that waiting, and like God, what are you doing?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I can I can completely relate with that, with having to go, you know, you you you start losing the joy, you start losing your hope, and you just feel kind of just kind of stagnant.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: I feel I like nothing is working.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know about you, but I don't I don't monetize when I, you know, podcasting.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't started monetizing or any of that, you know.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um I was, you know, I wasn't really sure if I should.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I really have been praying about it.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Lord, Lord, I don't want to just um this is a faith-based podcast, and I don't want it to be like I'm just putting pennies in my pocket and having conversations about you so I can profit from it.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to think that about me.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've not I've not you know gained one penny from podcasting and I'm okay with that.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: But people are like, why aren't you?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: You spend a lot of time, you know, in you know, investing in it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, God spent a lot of time investing in me.
• 33:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's you know, it's kind of like re repaying the favor.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I get what, you know, like when you say you're a volunteer minute minister, but it's like sometimes like when you when you go to the church, you know the pastors are getting paid.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people get paid to be in positions, you know.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I always wonder, like, God, what position are you gonna put me in, like a paid position or an unpaid position, you know?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't it's not that he doesn't want us to have uh um finances, because he does, you know, and abundance, he doesn't care.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: He we could have a lot or we could have a little, you know.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think God knows what we're gonna do with it and um you know if we're gonna be wise or or not.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I can just see how people get really torn and twisted and and frustrated with God because they you know, we I I just did a big segment on prayer um in my other podcast with my friend.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've been talking about prayer a lot because we I feel like sometimes people go and they pray, and if it's not met right now, instantaneously, they just forget, they just forget about it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, you know, God must be God must not like me, God must not care.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it kind of is like the poor me attitude, like, oh man, he must not care about me because he didn't do this for me.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why wouldn't he do this for me?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean and I've had those poor me moments myself where I just felt like, God, what is going on?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because it, you know, sitting in that waiting transition is no fun.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like being at the hospital for six hours before they call you back, you know, and you just want to go home and get healed.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Forget the hospital, you know?
• 35:12
  unknown: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like we get lost in that sometimes, if that makes any sense.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and it makes me think of the passage in scripture where the apostle Paul says, I've learned the secret to being content in every situation, in any and every situation, I believe is how it puts it, uh, whether well fed or hungry or and he lists all these things.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: But experientially in his life, he had experience being on the top and the bottom, being celebrated and being stoned, or like left yeah, I think he was stoned and left for dead at one point.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he went through a lot, and it's those words the secret to being content in any and every situation.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no like that's that's everything.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like the worst, worst case scenario is included in any and every.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he is saying it is possible to be content.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that is not what we tend to believe.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: What we tend to believe is in order to be content, dot dot dot.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: In order for me to have joy, this is what has to happen.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: In order for me to have hope, this is what needs to change.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like we are locked into that mindset.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Put another way, uh we uh at the very least subconsciously, but oftentimes we're naming it, have a solidified idea of what we need.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: And most of the time, it is logical if we are in a an unjust situation, it's probably logical to say I need that to change.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you are a human that has bills, it is logical to say I need money.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then we get this God who throughout scripture invites people into situations and invites them to operate in ways that are counter to logic, that actually are at times impossible.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had to navigate this when it comes to money because I know how money works.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and yet God invited me to go without a paycheck since 2018.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a wife, I've got kids, I'm in a house that has a mortgage, right?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so how does this work?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what God was impressing upon me is I don't need money, I need him.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: He can provide, he can provide through money, and he has at times, but that hasn't been the predominant way.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: The numbers have not added up most of the time.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so his provision has taken an assortment of creative forms, and I've had to learn how to live in this tension of understanding how the world works without being bound to it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Scripture says, be in and not of the world.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are there are realities of this world, but the invitation is to say, yes, these are the realities of this world, but this is greater reality.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: A God who can part the sea, and that right there is something that hit me this week is uh in Exodus 15, it starts with Moses singing this song of joy because they had just experienced God parting a body of water so large they couldn't see to the other side of it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And doing so when they were blocked between that and an Egyptian army that was going to murder them.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: And this was after they had finally been freed after 400 years, and they had witnessed God doing, I mean, mind-blowing acts of power.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's where we enter in Exodus 15.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: They have just left the sea and it took three days before they start grumbling.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Three days after the sea.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: The reason they're grumbling is because after three days, they realize they hadn't found any water.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so they grumble.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: They they actually find some water, but it's bitter.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's almost like insult to injury.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, there's one.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they don't even drink it.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they're mad.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: They are mad.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Moses calls out to God, God gives them a stick to throw in the water, makes it sweet, and then the very next stop they make, the very next place that God takes them is this oasis of like 12 springs, 70 palm trees.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's almost like God is showing off.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: But this is what struck me.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I've shared this a few times with people because it's just uh I feel like it's really important in naming how our invitation and how we can encounter God and how we can understand God is there's there's two things that are true in this.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: One, uh there's a we they could be justified in being upset that they didn't have water after three days because logically the human body needs water.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And they say that after three days, that tends to be when your body is done.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you go three days without water, that's it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: It shuts down, you go into a coma, you die.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you make it to four if you're strong and healthy and young.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: By day two, though, you're barely functioning.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Your cognitive abilities are are messed up, your blood pressure is out of whack, you got muscle cramps, uh, and then you all the, you know, you're you can't talk because your voice is like your mouth is just dry as a bone and angry and you know, all these things.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's day two.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: So so they're justified, right?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Except, except uh what's really strange is there's no mention of any of these issues in that verse.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: All it says is they had been traveling for three days, and then on or after the third day, they say, Where are we gonna find water?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe some of them were very strong, but we have to remember there were hundreds of thousands of them.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so there were infants and there were folks that were, you know, at the end of life.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: How likely is it that those people could have even made it a day without water?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: But what we see in that verse is not only is there no mention of any dehydration, they were still traveling on that third day.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: They had the ability to grumble on that third day to communicate, like in other words, something supernatural was happening, something miraculous was happening.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: They had traveled three days without water and were still traveling.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: And the question in my mind was were they actually thirsty?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: Or were they so conditioned to know how life worked that they believed they were supposed to be thirsty in that moment?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: And because they believed they were supposed to be thirsty, they start grumbling against Moses and really against God because he wasn't providing what he was supposed to provide, he was not provided what they needed.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, God's up there like, are you kidding me?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just gave you the supernatural ability to not need water.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if if anybody's like, well, are you how that that's that's not a thing.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: In scripture, there are many accounts of people going three days or more without water.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: The next one that was going to happen is Moses himself going up the mountain and going 40 days without food and water.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: There is a biblical precedent for God being able to sustain people without the things that they biologically need.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so, what if there are moments in our life that we don't have hope, we don't have joy, we are struggling because we know what we need.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: We know what God needs to do, and he is not doing it.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're mad at him and we're we're giving up.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, God's like, You have no idea the supernatural way I'm actually sustaining you.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: You are chasing after something you don't actually need.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if we were to start to understand this God of love in that way, this God who was not oblivious or ignorant to the biological need for thirst, like if we know that this same God is not ignorant to our situations, how can that change our ability to trust, even if it is a begrudging trust, where it's like David saying, How long, O Lord?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: What I believe is you are not present, but I'm gonna name it in these last two verses who you are, and that's what I'm gonna step into.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: But oh, I am struggling.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even if it's that, it doesn't have to be the preach Jesus, like it it can be lament.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but orienting ourselves towards this God of love, how might that change our situation and then allow us to encounter what Paul encountered?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Suddenly we're like, How in the world am I content right now?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't be content in this situation.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, I might have just found the secret.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think obedient obedience falls in that category as well with being content because we when we're not being content, we're not being obedient to God.
• 44:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not trusting in his word and what his word says that he is capable of doing because we're we're not um obedient to it, you know.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe that.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um a a short story I'll share with you um pertaining to finances.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: A friend of mine was moving and I thought it was crazy.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: They said we need X amount of money to move, and we don't have any.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how you can do that?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're just gonna move.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Yeah, God said to move.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was kind of like, I'm gonna watch to see how this pans out, right?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay really close to this because I I loved the faith that they just came right out to the church and said, We feel the Lord is calling us here.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we don't have the financial means, it's gonna cost$7,000 for us to move, and we don't have any money.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: My husband just lost his job, he just had so shoulder surgery, you know, and and I was just like, oh my goodness.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, you know, the the the church rallied up and gave him donations and stuff like that.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and I remember God telling me, You're gonna you need to you need to help them.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't know.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then God did something a crazy work in me over this situation because he's like, You're gonna help them.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay, well, I'm thinking, okay, I'll probably give them like a you know 50 bucks, you know, right?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give them$10, you know.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And God's like, No, you're gonna help them, but I need you to wait.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wait for what?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was like so they had three months to get to move, right?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: After they got out of their house.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Two weeks before they were to move, God said, Call your friend and ask her how much money they need.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I literally remember walking around the room going, I am not doing this because I already knew what God was doing.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Nope, not doing it, not doing it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And God goes, call her.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I called her and I was like, Oh my gosh.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping that all of the money came in, right?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that she only needs like 10 bucks or whatever, right?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, okay, and he and I called her and she said, um, she was crying because someone had just given her a big donation, and that made me really excited right off the bat, right?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, Well, this is gonna sound really weird, but God is telling me to ask you how much more you need.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like He's made me wait this whole time to want to give to you guys for this moment for some reason.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is, but I just feel like I need to be obedient.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Um, we need a thousand dollars.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I almost fell on the floor.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And God said, Tell her it's done.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, like immediately.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I was like, okay, I said, it's it's done.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, What?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, and she, you know, she's like, Are you are you serious?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, it's done.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had never stepped out on that kind of like faith before.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I never did it.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I've given donations and I've paid my tithes and and I've never just handed someone a thousand bucks, you know, because I'm like really frugal.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: What if, what if my car breaks down?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: I need that money.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's my you know, that's my emergency fund.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting on that for a reason.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: And God said, not today.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need that money today.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: You give it to her.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I sort of like, you know, do you go to hand them the check and you're like, uh, you know, I don't want to give you this money.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I gave her the money.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was like, okay, I kid you not.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not even, I think it was three days later, I got a surprise check in the mail for three times the amount of that that donation.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a mistake that was made at the IRS where they didn't pay me all my taxes or whatever it was, I got this surprise check in the mail.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I looked, I was like looking at I was like, You gotta be kidding me.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you knew this check was coming.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: You knew that I could afford, you know.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, but they didn't have time to wait, they needed the money now.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were at the end of their time.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: But he he wanted me to trust that he was gonna provide.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I didn't know that money was gonna come and I had to step out on that.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna tell you, this is really crazy.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter thought I was nuts, but ever since then, when God tells me to give like that, I give.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I when I do it in obedience, he every single time I get surprised.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not kidding, I still to this day get surprise checks in the mail and I don't know why I'm getting them.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter's like, what in the world?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: When I moved here, um, we've been here seven years, and I was telling her about this story, because this happened about nine years ago.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah, I just I started when God told me to give, I gave.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: And even if I was like, you know, reluctant, I just did it.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, God, I don't you know how much I have or what I don't do and don't have.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I'm not asking you to tell me what you have, I'm telling you what to do.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's like, you can and I was like, oh my gosh, it was it it was really hard for me.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I started, so I started, I was like, man, am I this selfish with money?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, or you know, because I'm like, am I tight while I'm hanging on to everything, you know?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd start doing it, and God would just bless me, like immediately bless me back.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then checks would start showing up, and my daughter was like, I don't understand.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, that's just how God is, that's the power of God.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying I get like thousands and thousands of dollars just drop in my mailbox, like sometimes it'll be a$40 check.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it was like one time I got a seven dollar check, and my daughter's like, What's the point of a seven-dollar check?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: I go, Hey, seven dollars, seven dollars, I'll take it, you know.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna be thankful, you know, whatever it is, you know.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I just got blessed.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that amazing though?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I hope people hear uh the deeper truths of the story you told, because it it confronts a notion that we have, which is that the reason we pray is because we have a need and God needs to fill it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like what we were saying earlier.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, we perceive these needs, but sometimes what we see as a need is not actually a need.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or what we think we need is not actually the best thing for us.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we know these things in our mind, and yet we still live as though the whole purpose of our interaction with God is to make our lives better.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and God does care for us, but what's interesting is uh his goal is not for us to have the storybook life.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Even if he gives that to someone, like that is not his intention because what he knows is this life that you and I are living is gonna eventually end and fade away.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like he is created as his eternal beings.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's an eternity that we were actually created for.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: And scripture talks about everything, everything as like grass that withers and fades away as light in momentary troubles.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, for us, this life, because it's all we know, it's all we've experienced, and deep down we still have a fear of it ending, we put a lot of weight.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so when the money isn't there or when the opportunity is is just out of reach, or we experience tremendous fear.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I say all that to say that you know, the story you just told was not simply a story of someone had a need and that need was met.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like their need was met.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: But also, God was doing immeasurably more, right?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because he could have just he could have just made the money show up in their bank account without anybody.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the other things that he wanted to do was impact other people's lives.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that he did with you was totally and utterly change your how you interact with him, how you love others and your relationship with money, which is huge because Jesus had a lot of stuff to say about money.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: One of the big things that he said was you cannot serve two masters.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot serve both God and money because you are gonna love the one and hate the other.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can't love them both.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, particularly in American culture, love of money is huge.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And some people hear that and they're like, When I'm not greedy, yes, that is one form of love of money.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Another more common form of love of money is fear.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like love is anything you give power over yourself to.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we are prone to give money power over us.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: We make most of our decisions are made based on money.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what you were invited into by God, not by choice, right, but by God, was to operate in a very different way.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't have a thousand dollars to give, you didn't even know, you didn't expect it to be that high.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, it's gonna be 20, 50.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, good, she got a big donation.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank goodness, wiping your brow.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, and God said, I know that you used to think about us from a scarcity mindset of the limited you have, and and and a uh kind of um a preparative mindset, like what if something will happen?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's wise, right?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: To plan to have savings and and God's like, but I want to not tell you to forego all that, instead to put obedience to me first, right?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Even if it'll cost you everything.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then he showed a different way economy works that normally if you give a thousand dollars away, then you you're out a thousand dollars.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: And God's like, Yeah, that can normally work, but also like I can make money appear in a fish's mouth, so I can make a three thousand dollar check come that you didn't even know was coming.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_02: But this is what's really important for people to know.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're also not saying if you do this, then you will get lots of money.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because as you're telling that story, I'm thinking of plenty of ways that I was generous in 2025 and could have really used God giving me a$3,000 check and so does that mean I didn't pray well enough, I didn't do no no, no, no, no.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because God's not after our bank accounts being better.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: Here's here's here's a way I'll put it.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: We often think of Jesus as a healer, and we think that one of the big important things that he did was heal people.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: He did heal people, but um, but healing their physical bodies was not the the point.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: But part of the reason that he did that is it was it showed uh uh prophecy to be true.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: The blind will see, you know.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but and then another piece of why he did it is because he was after a deeper healing.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll I'll I'll say two things.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: One, um one of the evidence for this is that if healing was the point, then why were there so many people Jesus didn't heal?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Think of the bull uh the pool of Bethesda, it talks about him healing one person, one person.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: That area was filled with people who were j longing just as hard for healing.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it mentions not a single other healing.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of cruel, like right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: Except it wasn't.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus was trying to do something immeasurably more in that space.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the second is the story of the person who uh was crippled and his friends wanted to get him to Jesus and it was crowded, so they went up on the roof, tore the roof up, lowered him down because they wanted Jesus to heal his body.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know what Jesus didn't do?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: Heal his body.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: Not at first.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: What Jesus did, the healing that he did was he said, Your sins are forgiven.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was the healing that he did.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: He did end up healing his body, but it was because the Pharisees in the back corner started grumbling and you know, muttering things and he recognized the the healing of the body was not because that person's body needed to be healed, was it was because Jesus wanted to do something greater for the people that were watching.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because now your story about the giving a thousand dollars, there may be someone who listens to that who is impacted as well.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: That you may never know the fruit of that.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: So your person seeking God for provision led to an impact in your life.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: The impact in your life could impact somebody else's life, and all of this can be happened because there's a God who has a greater creativity and understanding beyond us.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, we're just here thinking about our here and now.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: But if we can break from that and we can understand an eternal God and the invitation for heaven on earth, then we're no longer as bound to money, to control, to security.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: We can actually step in crazier ways because more and more we come to realize God actually is who he says he is.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I also think that um during that situation, God stretched my faith where I didn't think I had faith.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I feel like he took me to a new level of faith um in him that I didn't know existed.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I remember like afterwards I I would kind of test the water sometimes, you know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna try this again.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna try this again.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna see if this is really the real thing, you know, like was that like a quinky tink or what?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: But and you know, God just like I said, then I I think because I I tested it so many times, God just started like giving me checks.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was weird, giving me checks.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I told my pastor, I went to my pastor about it, he's like, you need to tell people about this story.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, this is really amazing.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: What what has happened with them coming here, you know, and trusting God, and then you trusting God, you know what I mean?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: And God's given his provision, you know, because what God wants to happen will happen, it will come to pass.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not meant to be, then it won't happen, you know.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think with that, um, it really built up a lot of faith in me.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I would I and I wasn't so it's not that I would I felt like I was being greedy, but I like to be safe, keep myself in a comfort zone of I gotta have this little money in this little pocket over here just in case, just in case something happens, you know.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: And God's like, I know what you're saving it for, but that's not gonna happen.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I need you to trust me right now.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna give it away.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I've saved all that money for a reason, you know.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it it really did stretch me.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I didn't even tell my friend what happened until later.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell her the whole me pacing the living room having the conversation with God, like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, yes, yes, yes, and you know, and give her a call and ask her how much she needs, and then tell her it's done.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like thinking, Lord, I know this is you talking, but I'm not really sure this is you talking, you know.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so um when I told her the story, you know, she cried again, actually.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it really, really touched her heart.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, with that being said, um I I love what you're doing.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: I the books you're writing.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you for sharing like you know the hardships.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I totally can understand it.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love your vulner vulnerability just to talk about the times that you got mad at God, because people really honestly they they don't admit that.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: They do not admit that they get mad at God.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that that that so that so bothers me because it's like, I am I the only person that gets mad at God then, you know, like am I the I'm like, oh man, I must be a really horrible person if I'm getting mad at God and no one else is.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that that really brought a blessing to me today because I always feel like that, you know, and then then sometimes it makes you feel like, oh, they must be better Christians than me because they don't ever get mad at God.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: I must be a horrible Christian or something, you know?
• 59:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the enemy that just wants to make you, you know, put thoughts in your mind, and we just have to take those thoughts captive and um take them to the knowledge of God and be like, okay, this isn't measuring up.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um, with all that being said, um, I just thank you so much for coming on here and sharing your testimony.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can you tell our listeners like where they can find you and um what your uh website is and um give them that information before we um close out here?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so uh like you, I I don't do this for income self-promotion, anything like that.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in fact, like I have a page that has all my books like available for free because I don't want money to be a barrier.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: The reason I do this is because God's invited me to cultivate authentic accessible space, to process who he is, who he's made us to be, and what that means for today.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that be in the form of a book or a podcast conversation, a video, or a conversation on the porch.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm trying to do is to cultivate authentic accessible space.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so if anybody is wanting to find that kind of a space, if they're feeling alone or unheard or unknown, um where did you see God.com is where you can find everything.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, a couple dozen books, so there's probably one that speaks to where you are today.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: Again, if money is a barrier, reach out.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: I will make sure you can get it for free because at the end of the day, like that's I I don't know what God's gonna do.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be willing and available for however he sends me, while also knowing I may never see what happens until eternity.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I don't want anybody to feel like they are alone, lost, unwanted, unknown, unloved.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, God, God sees you.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if I don't know you and don't see you, he does and can make that connection.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question about your logo.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking at that.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain like how you came up with that logo?
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's a pretty cool looking logo.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I gotta ask about that logo.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what's wild.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: I made that logo in 2018, and I think you're like the third person to ask me, which blows my mind.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I'm like, well, I I I know there's gotta be most people not knowing what this is, uh, but only three are bold enough to ask, so thank you for your boldness.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um Thanks.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it is it's two pieces.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I I created it when I felt like I was inviting me to start recording Where Did You See God?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the two components are one is very clear, the question mark, uh, but the other is the the theta, the Greek um th, which is how uh the word God, theos, starts.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's basically that represents God, and then the question mark is right there in the middle, both to capture the the core question, where did you see God?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: But two, uh to really be honest about what you and I have just spent some time exploring.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is hard to understand God sometimes.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: God is confusing often, and and it's because his ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: He is actually beyond our comprehension.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: So of course it's gonna be frustrating sometimes.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's gonna be confusing.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the good news.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I was thinking about this as you were talking.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, somebody might be wrestling with that idea of being angry at God.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: So another way to put it, because we have a lot of experiences with anger, what we're really saying is being honest with God.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of reasons we're not honest with God.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: How can we be more honest with God?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because what that is actually pinpointing is that God is inviting us to know him, is inviting us to relationship with him.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: When we're not honest with him, we're intentionally or not disconnecting from relationship.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: If we're afraid to be honest with God, uh the invitation is to say, God can handle it, God can handle your raw words.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: He cares more about connection than he does about your composure.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: So whether it's anger or lament or no words at all, silent.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've given God the silent treatment in the past couple months.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I did so knowing, like, God, I don't even want to pray to you right now, but I know you're still with me and I'm still with you, but uh right.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: God can handle it.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we're saying.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's just And yet you were still talking to him in the meantime.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: Silence, yeah, and also silence speaks so much too.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: And God's silence, whoo, sometimes there's more to that than if he gave us some clear words.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: So so that's how I would encourage people is we are all asking that question of not just where do we see God, but where is God?
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: Who is God, what is God, and and he can handle our questions and he is gonna walk with us through it.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you nailed it when you said, like, you know, he's so much bigger than what we are.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we can't even fathom.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can we can try, but we can't even fathom it.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we are gonna be so surprised when we get to heaven, you know, when we actually get to to to be there.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we you can't even even try to imagine it because it's so out of our supernatural realm, you know.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because we we operate in the physical, he operates in the supernatural, and just you know, we're we're just not gonna get it until we go see him, you know, when we get there.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I I always think when I get to heaven, I'm I have so many questions I'm gonna ask.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just know it.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and then I think other at other times I'm not gonna have any questions, I'm just gonna be in awe.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, part of me goes, I have so many questions, and the other part goes, No, actually, I'm probably just gonna be in awe, you know, of the wonder and amazement because it's gonna be so so much more than I'd ever thought it could be, you know.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: So well, I just want to say thank you for coming on Crushy Strongholds today.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've really enjoyed our conversation.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having the time.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for rescheduling with me.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you um doing that too.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I really do appreciate that and and um sharing your your your testimony as well.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will put your information in the show notes.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: I do that with every episode that I I I run and um put your information out there so people know how to reach you and so they can go check out all those stories.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um Tori the Tornado is an adorable book.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if you like kids' stories, if you got kids you want to read them a book, I suggest getting that.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um really, really cute.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you did the little clip to go with it.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was so great.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, it's such a good idea.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: So when I get my book, when I get my book out, I'm gonna do a little clip to go with it.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you gave me a little bonus out there.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I have some free audiobook codes.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so if anybody wants the the Tori the Tornado audiobook where each of my kids and my wife uh all played a role in it.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: It is the cutest audiobook you'll ever hear.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to give uh free audiobook codes away to anybody who reaches out.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll put that in the show notes too, because it is really a cute story.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was and it made and it it it has a good storyline with it, you know.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, what you guys created.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: So but with that being said, to our listeners, um just want to say thank you to everyone that's joined in and is listening today.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I hope you got as much out of this episode as I did.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um I hope you enjoyed it.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can also uh reach myself at crushingstrongholds.com.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can reach out for prayer, you can reach out for clarity calls, um, anything that you're needing if you're just having a having a struggle trying to get past some strongholds in your life, just reach out to me and let's just meet up and talk and just see what we can do to help each other.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's what crushing strongholds is all about getting people past just a little bit over that threshold, you know, um, so we can just keep on um striving after God.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you again, Paul, for being here.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um to all my listeners, I hope you have a great, wonderful day, and God bless you all.