Latest / Sorta Sophisticated / Episode 127 - Why Do We Root for the Underdog? - Why Losing Made Rocky a Winner

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Episode 127 - Why Do We Root for the Underdog? - Why Losing Made Rocky a Winner · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Sorta Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda.
• 0:04
  Speaker B: All right, are you ready this week? Amanda, do you even know what's about to happen? No.
• 0:08
  Speaker C: This is
• 0:08
  Speaker B: crazy. I never heard it. Okay, so 50 years ago, this broke actor with only a hundred dollars in his pocket. $100. I looked that up, turned down a fortune so he could play a nobody underdog in what is now one of the most iconic movies ever made. Do I get a guess? Do I
• 0:26
  Speaker C: get a guess? Do I get a guess?
• 0:27
  Speaker B: You could totally guess.
• 0:28
  Speaker C: Rocky.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: Rocky. Yeah, you got it. Yes, Sylvester. Officially, Rocky turns 50 this November. He
• 0:36
  Speaker C: had a hundred in his pocket.
• 0:37
  Speaker B: Huh? 100 bucks in his pocket. But
• 0:39
  Speaker C: I have a question.
• 0:39
  Speaker B: What?
• 0:39
  Speaker C: When people say that, is that just because they only had a hundred dollars in their pocket, but they had, like, a whole bank account, tens of thousands of dollars? No,
• 0:46
  Speaker B: no, no, no. Sylvester Stallone. Zero. Zilt. Really? Oh, I have a fun fact about this. So they're actually putting right back in the theaters nationwide just for the week. And then they're also coming out with something called I Play Rocky, which is Sylvester Stallone fighting to, like, get the movie made. So it's like. I don't know if it's a documentary or not really a documentary, but like. Like another movie on house. Sylvester Stallone made Rocky in the first place. So it's like an underdog movie about an underdog movie. Okay, Right. So that's also coming out. So then it got me thinking. Not like, we're not gonna talk all about Rocky. Don't worry about that. That would be stupid. Why are we hardwired to root for underdog? Why does everybody love. Because
• 1:22
  Speaker C: we are the underdog.
• 1:23
  Speaker B: Right, like that. America's the underdog. Yes. You're totally right. Absolutely. I think that's so wild. So official title. Why do we root for the underdog? Why? Losing made Rocky a winner. Did you know he lost?
• 1:34
  Speaker C: What? In
• 1:35
  Speaker B: Rocky 1, he lost. He didn't even win.
• 1:37
  Speaker C: You would assume that I watched Rocky 1.
• 1:39
  Speaker B: Okay. Oh, my God. That's. Oh, my God. Mind blown. That's terrible. Anyway, yes, he lost in a decision after 15 rounds in Rocky 1. Yes, he did. Okay, so today we're going to talk about why, like, psychologically, we'd rather watch Rocky lose than watch Apollo win. Okay. What's going on in our whole brain. Apollo, you know, is the guy. Okay. Yeah. The four ingredients you need to make a real underdog story come to life. So that way we can all, like, call bullshit the next time. There's
• 2:03
  Speaker C: a recipe to it.
• 2:04
  Speaker B: Right? Cause otherwise everybody can say they're an underdog. Right? Okay. And finally, why your brain decides the underdog is the good guy before you even bother to find out if he's an asshole or not. Why do we root for the underdog? Why? Losing made Rocky a winner. Yes. Okay. Kind of weird. So welcome back to Sword Sophisticated, the podcast where culture, curiosity and chaos collide with Rocky. Let's go. I'm Pete. That's Amanda sitting across me for always. Hi, Amanda.
• 2:26
  Speaker C: Hello, everyone.
• 2:28
  Speaker B: Word of the week. Yeah,
• 2:29
  Speaker C: let's go,
• 2:29
  Speaker B: let's go. Let's just rip it. Okay. Word of the week is fervid.
• 2:32
  Speaker C: Fervid. We
• 2:33
  Speaker B: gotta do it like this. You gotta go fervid.
• 2:35
  Speaker C: I know this word.
• 2:37
  Speaker B: You're probably thinking of fervent
• 2:38
  Speaker C: a
• 2:38
  Speaker B: little different.
• 2:39
  Speaker C: Fervid. It's like
• 2:41
  Speaker B: passionate. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally. Intensely. Intensely. Oh,
• 2:45
  Speaker C: intensely.
• 2:46
  Speaker B: Literally, it means intensely. It's
• 2:47
  Speaker C: when you fervidly do something.
• 2:49
  Speaker B: Like when you have a fervid orgasm. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Oh, my God.
• 2:51
  Speaker C: No,
• 2:52
  Speaker B: no, no. Listen. Okay, wait, wait. It comes from the Latin for vere, for vare, for vere, which means to boil. It's the same root that gives us fervent, ferment and effervescent. Right? Like the thing that all the bubbles. Right, right. So, fun fact. Fervid and fervent aren't quite the same thing. That's where I thought you were going with this whole thing. Oh,
• 3:10
  Speaker C: no.
• 3:10
  Speaker B: Fervent is steady passion. Right? Like fervent prayer. Like Catholics are always in fervent prayer when we do our rosary. Right. Fervent fervid is unhinged. Fervid.
• 3:19
  Speaker C: Yeah. It's like
• 3:20
  Speaker B: fervid is orgasmic. I'm not gonna tell you. Think of a fervid fan base. Like World Series, fervid fan, like crazy. Right? Something's going on. Okay,
• 3:27
  Speaker C: got
• 3:27
  Speaker B: it.
• 3:27
  Speaker C: We can use this one. It seems easy enough. All
• 3:29
  Speaker B: right. If you like what you're listening to, Hit, subscribe, follow us. Do all that stuff. New episodes every Wednesday. We'd love to. You know, we want more reviews. We need reviews. I'm stuck on reviews. I haven't seen a few come through in a while. Help us out, please. Okay. Can I start? Yeah. Cause I'm not gonna explain this whole. The Rocky movie stuff. That would be stupid. Everybody knows Rocky except you, but whatever. Okay. Do you know the theme song? Can you do the theme song? What are you doing? What is this? What are you boxing? What the fuck is that, like, right? Gonna fly now. Bam. Bam. You gotta. You know the.
• 3:56
  Speaker C: No.
• 3:57
  Speaker B: Okay. You know. Do you know Eye of the tiger?
• 3:59
  Speaker C: Yeah,
• 3:59
  Speaker B: the eye of the tiger. That wasn't till Rocky 3.
• 4:03
  Speaker C: The
• 4:03
  Speaker B: original gonna fly now.
• 4:04
  Speaker C: Oh. Is number one. Yeah,
• 4:05
  Speaker B: yeah. Fun fact. All right. There you go. Okay. Okay. Anyway, I'm gonna start with this whole idea of, like, underdog and, like, what the underdog actually is. And the actual origin of the word underdog is kind of shitty. I'm not gonna lie. It's exactly where you think it comes from.
• 4:17
  Speaker C: Underdog.
• 4:17
  Speaker B: Yes. That's. It comes from dog fighting. Yes, absolutely. Back in the 1800s, the top dog was the dog that would win in all the dog fighting, which is now obviously illegal unless you're Michael Vick. And the underdog was the one who was always pinned underneath or subsequently the loser. That's it. And
• 4:32
  Speaker C: they would, like, kill each other, right?
• 4:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the. Right. Yes. Yeah. It's really sad. Okay. Somewhere along the line, it stopped being about dogs. We turned it into people and humans, not
• 4:40
  Speaker C: death. Just losing.
• 4:41
  Speaker B: Got it. Now it's people and it's just losing. But, like, I don't want to say just losing, because nobody roots just for a terrible team, just because they're terrible. Sometimes you just hate terrible teams. So the four things I
• 4:51
  Speaker C: share for the Angels.
• 4:52
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. And
• 4:52
  Speaker C: the Ducks. Both are underdogs.
• 4:54
  Speaker B: But hold on. These are the four things we said. What's up? These are the four things. You ready? I'll go. Fast. Low expectations. Yep. Check. Check. Unfair odds.
• 5:02
  Speaker C: Yeah, check.
• 5:03
  Speaker B: Yes. They got unfair odds. They're trying like hell anyway, and everyone can see their effort.
• 5:08
  Speaker C: Okay, okay.
• 5:08
  Speaker B: Fair. That's a hit or a miss, depending on which game of the season you're on. And then the last one, sort of subjective, is there's something about them that you actually have to like.
• 5:17
  Speaker C: Okay,
• 5:18
  Speaker B: okay. So it's not like if you really hate them for some reason, then you're never gonna make them the underdog. So it's low expectation, unfair odds. They have to be trying like hell. And there's something about them you actually like. Okay, so go back. Original underdog story. What's the original underdog story? Come on, you know it.
• 5:31
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 5:32
  Speaker B: What? Do it. Is
• 5:32
  Speaker C: it David and Goliath?
• 5:33
  Speaker B: It's David and Goliath. There it is.
• 5:35
  Speaker C: Look
• 5:35
  Speaker B: at you, all biblical over there. The
• 5:36
  Speaker C: only reason I just watched David with the girls.
• 5:38
  Speaker B: Did you?
• 5:39
  Speaker C: Yeah. Well, because we went to a Phil Wickham concert. Oh,
• 5:41
  Speaker B: okay.
• 5:41
  Speaker C: And
• 5:42
  Speaker B: they showed David. I'm like, oh, we should watch it. Christian artist Phil Wickham. But
• 5:47
  Speaker C: it was totally talking about how, you know, David's the underdog, and that's why it popped into my brain.
• 5:51
  Speaker B: Okay, so. But
• 5:52
  Speaker C: actually, that's what you're using.
• 5:53
  Speaker B: I am. Well, we're talking about David Goliath, so everybody understands. But then I'm going to tell you why David's an asshole. Okay, Original underdog story.
• 5:59
  Speaker C: I killed Goliath. Huh?
• 6:00
  Speaker B: I know we did. Yeah, yeah. And. Oh, sorry for all the haters out there who all you do is, like, slander and send comments. I'm sure there are older underdog stories that go back to Gilgamesh or all other shit that you all do. I got it for us sort of sophisticated people. We're still leaving. Goliath is the original sort of. Also, I am
• 6:17
  Speaker C: so thankful to you that you. All the comments. I cannot handle it. No,
• 6:20
  Speaker B: I know
• 6:20
  Speaker C: it's probably. There's a bunch of shit. I'm out of this and that.
• 6:23
  Speaker B: But,
• 6:23
  Speaker C: like, I
• 6:24
  Speaker B: couldn't do it. I just could
• 6:25
  Speaker C: not do
• 6:25
  Speaker B: it. We're at work. Like, she should wear
• 6:27
  Speaker C: makeup.
• 6:27
  Speaker B: She should do this. You know what? I feel very fervid right now. This is very unhinged already because there was somebody who's just battling, like, on the comment section in our posts. Not to me, with each other about some bullshit. Like, they were going back and forth, like, fighting. And I was like, oh, my God. Listeners are fighting with each other about this bullshit. It was crazy. Okay, Anyway, David and Goliath, shepherd boy, sling, right? You got the rocks, Goliath, big armor, whole thing. Everybody knows the story goes into the Valley of Elah. David slings a rock, Goliath goes down. Super simple, low expectations. Thought they were gonna lose. Unfair odds. Goliath was massive. He's trying like hell. He was the only one he went to what? King Saul. He's like, I'll go do this. Let me go. Right? Helmet didn't even fit him. Whatever. And we wanted David to win. We really wanted David to win. Okay? We've been basically telling that same story for the last 2000. Oh,
• 7:13
  Speaker C: you're gonna, like, pop everyone's bubble right now.
• 7:15
  Speaker B: Well, you know what happened after that, right? David goes and, like, I don't know, sees Bathsheba bathing in a river. And then. What was his name? I forgot. Uriah or something. Was a husband. And he has him killed so he can bed down Bathsheba. And then God kills their firstborn because he's having sex. Like, oh, yeah. Dave's so awesome. I mean, I know I'm. This coming from a Catholic, I probably should be a little nicer about this. But I'm just saying, like, there's two sides to every story. David kind of fucked up. I mean, he's planting seeds. You know what I mean? Okay. Anyway. But I think you go all the way back to David and Goliath. That's the whole point. That's why Rocky was created. Right? All movies. Hollywood does this all the time. Rocky, Star Wars, American Revolution you were just talking about right at the beginning. We literally are built off of like, this is what America does. Yeah. Steve Jobs, Apple. So you think about IBM was massive back in the day. Apple was nothing. Remember we talked about the super bowl commercial? The Apple 1984 commercial that. Yes. That was the beginning of. We all were crazy about the underdog Apple. And here we are now. I wonder what you think about Apple. Who knows?
• 8:13
  Speaker C: We all have Apple.
• 8:14
  Speaker B: Okay. All right. So now let's go the other way. Okay. Now, two billionaires fighting over something. So think about this. SpaceX.
• 8:20
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 8:21
  Speaker B: Against Blue Origin. Right. Elon Musk. Okay. Jeff Bezos.
• 8:24
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 8:24
  Speaker B: Is there an underdog?
• 8:26
  Speaker C: No.
• 8:26
  Speaker B: Right. Not so much. Right. Even if one has less money. Right. Nobody really cares. So the whole idea of those sort of four things are super critical otherwise, like, okay, let's say Jeff Bezos has half the amount of money of Elon Musk.
• 8:39
  Speaker C: You
• 8:40
  Speaker B: still hate him. Both. Right. But if I change that to like mom and Pop coffee shop against McDonald's all of a sudden, who are you rooting for?
• 8:48
  Speaker C: Yeah. Mom and Pop.
• 8:49
  Speaker B: Right. Right away. Aren't you. You don't even know. You don't even know anything about them either. They could be assholes. I know. I think that's just really weird the way our brains automatically.
• 8:57
  Speaker C: But that's like corporate America versus like. You know.
• 8:59
  Speaker B: I know, but that's. You're cheat coding it. We're gonna talk about that in a little bit. Because that's why the fourth fundamental things are important. Because if you only are using one of them, then you're sort of cheat coding underdog. So like. Okay. Right. Did you do Malcolm Gladwell?
• 9:12
  Speaker C: No.
• 9:13
  Speaker B: The author of the Tipping Point?
• 9:14
  Speaker C: No.
• 9:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. Like he outliers. I think you've heard of Malcolm Gladwell. Anyway, okay. He has this super famous. She hasn't watched Rocky. She doesn't know Malcolm Gladwell. She is. I
• 9:24
  Speaker C: live under a rock.
• 9:25
  Speaker B: She is the poster child for sort of sophisticated. Okay. Anyway, go read this book
• 9:29
  Speaker C: for
• 9:30
  Speaker B: me. He wrote a book called David and Goliath. But his Whole premise, I know, I just shit all over David and said, like. But theoretically, David was the original underdog. He wrote a whole book about how he's arguing. We looked at it all wrong and that David was never really the underdog. Which I thought, oh,
• 9:45
  Speaker C: is this like how we look at these villains as they're not actually villains?
• 9:48
  Speaker B: Right. Yes, exactly the same thing. Like Maleficent. Yes.
• 9:52
  Speaker C: Just misunderstood,
• 9:53
  Speaker B: even wicked, right? Oh my God. Right. So all of a sudden you start to change your. This is exactly where I'm going with. So he argued. Goliath was this huge guy, 100 pounds of armor, right hand to hand combat. That was his plan. David was a slinger. But back then, a slinger. Having a slinger was the same as like having a gun.
• 10:11
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 10:12
  Speaker B: Because I mean, if you think about it, the rock was like a bullet. I mean, it was going to come out like super fast. So his whole premise was David never fought Goliath's fight. He stayed back, just shot him in the face. So his take on this whole thing was technically, you think David was the underdog, but if you look at it, David was not the underdog. You made the assumption that he was. Which I think is
• 10:33
  Speaker C: built on the stature and all the other things versus built
• 10:36
  Speaker B: on. Built on the four sort of expectations that you need, like low expectations on fair odds. Trying to. So I'm not arguing Malcolm Gladwell was right or wrong. I think it's a super interesting take on how to look at things.
• 10:48
  Speaker C: But I think it goes back to perspective. Right. Like a lot of times we are so staunch in what we believe or what our opinion is that we don't hear or listen to someone else's. That you have that moment of like, oh,
• 10:58
  Speaker B: huh, Right. Because it's all subject. That's the thing. I just said McDonald's in the coffee shop. It's super subjective. So that's the first.
• 11:05
  Speaker C: Well, right, because once you said, will they maybe assholes, I was like, oh, maybe I don't want them to win.
• 11:08
  Speaker B: Right. All we see is big versus small. Yeah, that's it. Right. Even though maybe that little coffee shop underpays their employees. Or maybe he. Maybe the owner sexually harasses his employee. Like, you don't know any of those details, but immediately you're like, yeah, fuck McDonald's, we're rooting for the small guy.
• 11:22
  Speaker C: So is this all in our heads or has this actually been, like, tested and proven?
• 11:25
  Speaker B: Oh, no shit, dude. This is tested. This shit's tried and true. Well,
• 11:28
  Speaker C: I mean, again, but what I Guess I mean, is like, as you just did it, right? McDonald's versus coffee shop. And I'm like, nope, coffee shop. And then you're like, well, what if he's an asshole? What if he.
• 11:38
  Speaker B: Your brain is hacking?
• 11:38
  Speaker C: No, no, no. So then,
• 11:40
  Speaker B: yeah, I got you. I got you. Literally been tested. But, yeah, I'm with you here. Here's the deal. Real shit, okay? Researchers, scientists, psychologists, they all do this stuff. There's actually an entire group of psychologists at the University of South Florida who basically made their entire career out of this whole thing. They call it the appeal of the underdog. This was their research. I mean, not like five years. Like 25 years. Yeah. They give people two competitors in some sort of athletic event or whatever. It is basically identical for all intents and purposes, and tell them one has worse odds or less money or came from a broken home or whatever the story is that they make up. And people would immediately swing over to that side, like, duh, right? And root for that person every single time. And it's not just for sports. One of the experiments they did was about countries. Check this out. They had people read about Israel, Palestine.
• 12:19
  Speaker C: Oh,
• 12:20
  Speaker B: okay. And the only thing they changed was the map. So on one map, they make Israel look tiny next to all the Middle East.
• 12:28
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 12:29
  Speaker B: Okay. On the other map, they make the Palestinian territories look tiny inside of Israel, of course. Right. And support flipped depending on which
• 12:37
  Speaker C: map
• 12:38
  Speaker B: they were looking at. Same exact facts. Nothing changed, just a different map.
• 12:44
  Speaker C: Oh, interesting.
• 12:44
  Speaker B: I thought that was wild. So
• 12:46
  Speaker C: how about reality?
• 12:47
  Speaker B: Yes. Okay. It has more to do with that. Yes. Okay. When the underdog doesn't look like they're trying, go back to the whole trying thing. Right. Like they have to be putting up a badass fight. If they don't look like they're trying, we're not supporting anymore. Okay. We give up immediately. That's sort of. Well, then you would argue that's where Malcolm Gladwell sort of falls apart. I mean, was David trying or. I mean. Yeah, he was trying.
• 13:08
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 13:08
  Speaker B: Right. What do you think? Or was it just, like, one thing? I don't. I don't remember the Bible verse. I
• 13:13
  Speaker C: don't think David wanted to die.
• 13:14
  Speaker B: Right. But, like, did he? Was it like a hundred rocks he was going, or was it just one? Yeah, we. Shit. We should know that. Okay. Anyway, but the whole point is, the whole reason Rocky went back to Rocky, the whole. Or Star wars or whatever, the whole reason that works is because they're busting their ass. Right? Like, you remember. Well, you didn't See Rocky, the famous scene, right? He wakes up in the morning. It's like 4 o' clock in the morning. He literally cracks open six eggs, puts it in a thing and just drinks the cup. It's disgusting. It's all over his fucking face. He's wearing that gray outfit. He goes outside, he starts running to dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Right? And then all the people start running behind him. And he runs up the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art, right? You can't. You get chills because you know he's trying his ass off, right? Who else do it? You're not sitting there like a douchebag on the couch. Oh, yes. I'll fight Apollo. Right?
• 13:59
  Speaker C: Okay. Yeah,
• 14:00
  Speaker B: yeah. Okay. Can I do an experiment with you right now?
• 14:02
  Speaker C: Oh, no. Can
• 14:03
  Speaker B: I just flip real quick? Yeah. Okay. I just want to show how actively, like, our brain picks a side.
• 14:07
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 14:08
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 14:08
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 14:08
  Speaker B: I'm just gonna give you a prompt. You're gonna tell me who you wanna win really fast. Just. That's it. Like, don't care. No names. Go. Super fast.
• 14:15
  Speaker C: First instinct, go.
• 14:16
  Speaker B: Okay. NCAA, March Madness. You know the brackets. NCAA, a number one seed versus a number 16 seed.
• 14:20
  Speaker C: Ooh. 16,
• 14:21
  Speaker B: 16, duh. Okay. Okay, I did this one already. Local coffee shop versus Starbucks.
• 14:25
  Speaker C: I did say local coffee shop. Okay.
• 14:26
  Speaker B: Local coffee shop. An unknown new singer, like alternative singer, or some giant pop star.
• 14:33
  Speaker C: Always a known alternative.
• 14:34
  Speaker B: Right, okay. Some broke dude in court suing some giant corporation. Broke dude in court.
• 14:40
  Speaker C: I mean. Yeah, of course.
• 14:40
  Speaker B: Okay, got it. This is your brain. Literally just did what I thought it was gonna do. Right. I gave you no details. None. Right,
• 14:47
  Speaker C: well. And that's where all my hesitation came from was because. Well, what are the details?
• 14:50
  Speaker B: I didn't tell you who's nice. I just told you who's smaller.
• 14:52
  Speaker C: Yeah,
• 14:52
  Speaker B: you picked the small
• 14:53
  Speaker C: guy. Yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker B: Every single time.
• 14:54
  Speaker C: I guess it's always the case.
• 14:55
  Speaker B: Yes. I
• 14:56
  Speaker C: mean, that's all right. You have your tall kings and your short kings, right? You always feel bad for the short kings.
• 14:59
  Speaker B: You know what I mean? What are you gonna do?
• 15:01
  Speaker C: Do you even know what short king is?
• 15:02
  Speaker B: No.
• 15:03
  Speaker C: Oh, it's a man who's not tall. Like, who's.
• 15:05
  Speaker B: Oh, like me.
• 15:06
  Speaker C: Five, six, five, seven.
• 15:07
  Speaker B: Oh, I barely make it out on a good day. Like, if I stretch, I'm five, nine. Oh,
• 15:11
  Speaker C: look at you. If
• 15:12
  Speaker B: I just normal, I'm five, eight, and three quarters.
• 15:14
  Speaker C: Oh, no, but you're above. Yeah, yeah. Like, five, seven. Thank
• 15:16
  Speaker B: God. Okay.
• 15:17
  Speaker C: I mean, but, like, the whole point of the Big versus little guy is because then when the little guy wins, everyone feels victorious.
• 15:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And in sports, I think it works the best. Right? Rocky, the movie. Sports. I think it's fair that that works the best, but I think in life, it doesn't necessarily work the best.
• 15:36
  Speaker C: Well, and I will say, like, so with a girls soccer team right now, right, they're having a great season, but they've literally had three, four years of a really crappy season. However, they all have worked super hard and have become more technical. So now they're putting that into motion. Yeah, that's
• 15:52
  Speaker B: awesome. And it's showing. But
• 15:54
  Speaker C: then you would tell me, like, all the rest of the teams in my bracket probably want us to lose because we haven't lost the game yet. But it's like, hold on. They are just finding success.
• 16:02
  Speaker B: But just because you're on the top of the. Oh, we're talking about that. Okay, okay. Oh, no, no, no. I love where you just went with that. That's awesome. Okay. But I want to. I want to give you a few of my, like, when I get goosebumps stories here. Okay? Like, and shit. Maybe you'll remember these. I don't know. Do you remember miracle on ice, 1980? Yeah,
• 16:14
  Speaker C: yeah, yeah.
• 16:14
  Speaker B: Okay. Right. U.S. national Hockey Team beat the Soviet Union in New York. Okay. The Soviet Union had won four straight Olympic gold medals. They were the pros. Yes. Our team didn't have pros back then. 1980, we weren't elaborate. We were college kids. Yes, absolutely. Fun fact. Two weeks before they played that game, the Russians played the United States in a friendly. They beat us 10 to 3. Right. Two weeks earlier. So anyway, we go into the Olympics, we win that game. Everybody remembers four to three. But here's the part nobody really remembers at all. That wasn't the gold medal match. It was the semifinals. We then had to play Finland to win. Huh? No, we won. No, no, we won the gold medal. But the point. What I'm saying is, like, I
• 16:54
  Speaker C: didn't even know we played Finland. That's my whole point.
• 16:55
  Speaker B: My point is, it's the same thing. You had no idea Rocky lost. Like, it's weird how our brains doesn't remember. Okay, Soccer. You love soccer. We're just talking about soccer. Leicester City from the English Premier League. For all of our American fans that don't know 2016, they won the whole thing. The year before, Leicester City literally was getting relegated. They were the last team that was.
• 17:15
  Speaker C: People
• 17:15
  Speaker B: probably don't know what getting relegated means. They were going to move down into the next division. Right. They barely hung on. And then the following year, they won the whole thing. The preseason odds of them winning that season, it
• 17:27
  Speaker C: was ridiculous. I'm sure.
• 17:28
  Speaker B: 2015, 2016. 5,000 to 1.
• 17:32
  Speaker C: 5,000
• 17:33
  Speaker B: to 1. Yes. Okay. And then of course, my favorite more recently, March Madness. I gotta love march madness. Okay. UMBC. 2018. UMBC. People don't even know who the fuck they were. University of Maryland, Baltimore County. Not University of Maryland. Like everybody knows University of Maryland. Like the, what is it? The Terrapins? Baltimore County. No, no, no, no. Yeah. No, they go out and beat number one ranked Virginia. They fucking murdered them by 20 points. 16 seed versus a one seed. And Virginia at that time wasn't. You know how there's one seeds in each bracket, so there's four one seeds. Yes. Virginia was the number one seed of all. They thought Virginia was gonna win everything. And they went out. I mean, it was unbelievable. In 135 occurrences of a number one playing a 16. Never happened ever before. And they went out.
• 18:13
  Speaker C: But did they win the whole thing?
• 18:14
  Speaker B: Umps. No, no, they just won that game. But my. But
• 18:17
  Speaker C: here's the thing.
• 18:17
  Speaker B: I'm just telling you, that's awesome. It's underdog. I'm just giving you underdog stories.
• 18:20
  Speaker C: But like, so in theory, the underdog doesn't always have to win.
• 18:25
  Speaker B: No way.
• 18:26
  Speaker C: You just have to have success. You
• 18:28
  Speaker B: have to have those. It's those four things. Yes. And like you just want some success. Okay. Cause when UMBC won, everybody went crazy. They lost the next game, it doesn't matter. So this is why Rocky works. Quick refresher. Rocky Balboa, played by Sylvester Stallone. He's basically this nobody club fighter in Philadelphia. Southpaw. He's a left handed fighter. I don't know, he's about 30 years old at the time. And if you remember, he's collecting money. He works for a loan shark. And so he's like the hitman. He goes out and beats the shit out of people to get money. Anyway, Apollo Creed, played by Carl Weathers, he is the heavyweight champion at the time. And something happens, like his big fight falls through. The other guy cancels or gets sick. And so for the 1976 bicentennial anniversary of America, he comes up with this gimmick to give a local fighter a chance to fight him in the ring. Like that's the whole point. And he picks Rocky off the list just because of his nickname. You remember his nickname,
• 19:18
  Speaker C: the Italian Stallion. The
• 19:20
  Speaker B: Italian Stallion, yes. Fun fact, porno name.
• 19:24
  Speaker C: What
• 19:24
  Speaker B: porno name
• 19:26
  Speaker C: for who?
• 19:27
  Speaker B: Rocky. Yes. So remember I said Rocky was broke?
• 19:30
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 19:31
  Speaker B: Uh huh. So earlier, like, I don't know, in the early 70s, he did a soft core porn.
• 19:36
  Speaker C: Are you talking about Sylvester Stallone?
• 19:38
  Speaker B: I am. Sylvester Stallone did a soft core porn. And at the time, that was. That's not what the name of the porno was. He was just in it. But anyway, after Rocky came out and they called me Italian Stallion, they went back and like, renamed that porno the Italian Stallion. And you could go online right now, you could find Rocky in a soft core porn. Italian Stallion, Yes. Okay, I will not do this. My whole thing about why this makes the whole movie work, not because of the porno at all. Okay. The night before the fight, he tells Adrian, his wife. Adrian, right? Short hair, kind of like weird glasses, not that hot, right? Yeah, I know. Talk about underdog. Okay. Anyway, he knows he can't win. He knows it. Apollo's too good. But he says he wants to go the distance. That's all he tells her. I just want to go all 15 rounds because no one has ever done that before with Apollo. And if I'm still staying, literally, he said, and if I'm still standing at the final bell, I will know for the first time in my life that I'm not a loser. I'm not a loser in grid. That was it. So his goal was never to become a champion. It was, don't be a nobody. I don't ever. I just. I want to be a somebody. That was it. And the movie ended. He was still standing,
• 20:46
  Speaker C: but then
• 20:47
  Speaker B: he was still
• 20:47
  Speaker C: victorious. Right? I mean,
• 20:48
  Speaker B: and if you remember, you can't even hear the decision in the background. Like it's a. It's like winner, Apollo Creed. Doesn't matter because he's over Adrian. Yo, Adrian. We did it, right? The whole. The whole awesome story about that whole thing. That's why the whole, like, ending works. And that's probably why they're making that movie, I play Rocky, because now they want to do that whole thing about showing how an underdog is developed in the first place. Does that make sense? It's just awesome,
• 21:13
  Speaker C: right? But like how you said earlier, that's kind of why, like, all movies work. I mean,
• 21:16
  Speaker B: it's Hollywood.
• 21:17
  Speaker C: Yeah. There's Rudy, the Karate Kid. Remember the Titans?
• 21:21
  Speaker B: Erin Brockovich,
• 21:22
  Speaker C: when she went. Yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker B: Oh, okay. You don't watch Rocky, but, you know, the Karate Kid or the Titans. My bad. I didn't know you were such a Ralph Macchio, Denzel Washington fan. Okay, right,
• 21:33
  Speaker C: Whatever.
• 21:33
  Speaker B: Harry
• 21:33
  Speaker C: Potter. I guess a little Harry Potter. That's true.
• 21:36
  Speaker B: What are you talking about? Harry Potter was the. You
• 21:38
  Speaker C: remember Harry
• 21:38
  Speaker B: under the stairs?
• 21:39
  Speaker C: You're right. You're right. Right. He
• 21:40
  Speaker B: was like 11 years old, living in some shit. Right? Shithole.
• 21:43
  Speaker C: Yeah, you're right.
• 21:44
  Speaker B: I forgot.
• 21:44
  Speaker C: Harry himself. Yes. I thought I meant the series. But yes, Harry himself was the underdog. Yes,
• 21:48
  Speaker B: Harry was a total underdog. Yes, absolutely. Like, okay, here's the lame part, because I think you said it a little earlier. When does the underdog get so good? Like your daughter's team, right? When did they get so good where you're like, well, hold on a second. They're no
• 22:02
  Speaker C: longer the underdog.
• 22:02
  Speaker B: Right. The script just sort of flipped. So I'm going to do the Dark side of the Underdog. Are you ready for this
• 22:07
  Speaker C: now? Ready.
• 22:08
  Speaker B: All right. So up to now, we're all good. Like, we understand the whole four things that you need. Premise of an underdog. Okay, start simple. Back to local coffee shop versus Starbucks, like we talked about. Right? We're rooting for the local. But like I said earlier, what if he's sexually harassing his employees? Right, but. And Starbucks, on the other hand, they pay for college. They're promoting from within. Yeah. Corporate
• 22:28
  Speaker C: America. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker B: Mom and Pop feels good, but mom and Pop aren't offering the same benefits that Starbucks is offering. So it makes it a little confusing who you're supposed to root for.
• 22:39
  Speaker C: But it's also not fair because it's not apples to apples.
• 22:42
  Speaker B: Hold on a second.
• 22:43
  Speaker C: Like, Starbucks has so much more capital that they're able to do. They should be doing more
• 22:47
  Speaker B: than the capital they have. But somewhere, Starbucks started little in the middle of Seattle. Okay,
• 22:50
  Speaker C: fine.
• 22:51
  Speaker B: I'm gonna flip it for a second. This is where it's even gonna get weirder. I'm using the same company in both scenarios. Underdog and then not underdog. Watch this. Okay. Netflix.
• 22:58
  Speaker C: Okay,
• 22:59
  Speaker B: you don't even remember how Netflix started, do you? Okay, Netflix started. Netflix. No, it
• 23:02
  Speaker C: started as, like a. Against
• 23:03
  Speaker B: Blockbuster.
• 23:04
  Speaker C: Yeah. As a DVD.
• 23:04
  Speaker B: DVD? Yes. Vending machine mail you DVDs. Blockbuster was Goliath.
• 23:09
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 23:09
  Speaker B: Blockbuster would charge you fucking late fees if you showed up an hour late to return your stupid dvd. Right? And then Netflix comes in and puts Blockbuster out of business because they're just sending you DVDs from home. And we all love it. And now today were complaining because Netflix keeps upping their charges. What is it now for basic Netflix? I don't know. It's like $20.99 a month. Or 24 bucks, whatever it is, right? Same company, but now we're pissed that they're on top. And we don't even. Everything we think about Netflix, we're like, oh my God, now they're stealing from us. Now they're making us worse. And everything we talk about, right? Like it's so. But
• 23:43
  Speaker C: now they're a production company. I mean, they're totally different than what they started doing.
• 23:46
  Speaker B: I'm just saying. I'm gonna do another one. Tom Brady, right? Good looking, Tom Brady. We know. Tom Brady. Okay. Sixth round pick in the draft. 200th pick in the draft. Oh,
• 23:55
  Speaker C: really?
• 23:56
  Speaker B: Somewhere around there. I don't know. Again, swords. Fiscally, I don't know. Backup quarterback territory. Absolutely. Starts his first super bowl against the Rams. Total underdog, right? 14 point underdogs. Goes out, beats the shit out of the Rams. America loves him. Then what does he go do? He keeps winning and winning and winning and winning. And then he starts deflating footballs. And then he
• 24:13
  Speaker C: deflatege.
• 24:13
  Speaker B: Fucks a supermodel. And here we are. And I mean, unless you're a Patriots fan or a Buccaneers fan, you literally can't help but want to root against Tom Brady. And now when you listen to him announcing games, you're like, tom Brady, Just shut up. But like, same thing,
• 24:27
  Speaker C: same
• 24:28
  Speaker B: work ethic, same everything. He just took the underdog arc way too far. And then we flipped on him, we turned. But the thing is.
• 24:38
  Speaker C: So is there like a point?
• 24:39
  Speaker B: No, there's not. You get to decide. You decide. That's what's so weird about this. There's this general vibe of America deciding, right? When it's like UMBC against Virginia. But then at some point, everybody's sort of independently deciding when they jump off this bandwagon, so to speak. Here we go. Okay, how about this? I'm gonna let you decide,
• 24:55
  Speaker C: okay?
• 24:56
  Speaker B: Okay, let's
• 24:56
  Speaker C: try.
• 24:56
  Speaker B: Here we go. Another challenge, but I'm gonna give you more information here, okay? Two Olympic runners,
• 25:00
  Speaker C: okay?
• 25:01
  Speaker B: Two women runner, a defending champion, 100 yard dash. Okay? Best in the world. Hasn't won yet, but supposed to. Literally number one ranked in the world, doing Rocky. Same thing. 15 years she's been working out 5am workouts. I mean, she's ripped and ready to go. Okay. Gave up everything, her whole life to be great. I mean, on the Wheaties box. You with me? Runner B barely qualified. Last one in. They picked her from some obscure country. Cause they just wanted to make sure that that country could participate. And no one ever expected her to make the Final. But somehow she made the final.
• 25:32
  Speaker C: That's really hard, though. No, that one's hard.
• 25:34
  Speaker B: It's very hard.
• 25:35
  Speaker C: Award
• 25:36
  Speaker B: A has done. She's
• 25:37
  Speaker C: doing the
• 25:37
  Speaker B: work. She's done nothing wrong. So do your girls. Your girls soccer team. They put in the work. Actually, you'd argue she put in more work and worked hard. Harder. So why are we rooting again, theoretically,
• 25:48
  Speaker C: for the person who has nothing. And
• 25:49
  Speaker B: I'm arguing. I know you didn't answer it, but I'm arguing most people root for the person who has nothing. There's actually a name for it. The whole reason I brought it up. It's called Tall Poppy syndrome. The Australians made it famous, actually, back during the Depression. One of their politicians promised to cut all the tall poppies, like, down to size, meaning all the big guys and all their big government salaries back in Australia during the day. And the phrase just sort of sucked, but it actually goes all the way back to ancient Rome. Tall poppy syndrome. There's an old story about a Roman king. Hold on. I want to get this right. So I got to read this. Whose son asks him how to take over city. And the king doesn't say a word. He just walks out in his garden, whacks the heads off of all the tall poppies, and he was like, oh, got it. Message received. Take out the guys who stand out. And that's what we do with Runner A.
• 26:32
  Speaker C: Like,
• 26:32
  Speaker B: that's my whole point. Somebody gets too good, we just want to cut down Runner A. And it's like, wait a second. But Runner A hasn't even had her moment to shine,
• 26:39
  Speaker C: you know, like, I think about, like, American Idol.
• 26:43
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. Totally. Good one. Yes. Good poll.
• 26:46
  Speaker C: You know, we just saw Carrie Underwood in concert. Yep. And I adore her, like, from where she started or even, like, Kelly Clarkson, because, like, where they both started from. Yes. They went on American Idol and they won, and then they both found this massive success, but both worked hard for it. Right. So. And I guess. And also in Tom Brady's, like, I know. I was like, I don't know about Tom Brady, but he worked hard for it, too. Like, yes, he had talent. They all have talent, but they also worked for it. Right. They didn't just get it. So maybe with the underdog, I guess if I had to think about it, I would want to cheer for somebody who had put in the work for it and then they found the success from it, not somebody who was just given it. And then. So
• 27:29
  Speaker B: you're still rooting for Carrie Underwood and killing. Here's what I would say. I would. I agree with that. And I'm going to add to it. Okay. I'm going to say be humble.
• 27:38
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 27:39
  Speaker B: If you win and you get to the point where you're no longer the underdog, be humble. Lady Gaga, like, what she's done. We did a whole podcast on her whole, like, give back. Born this way. People like that, like, listen, I don't know everything about Lady Gaga, but my point is, is people like that who take the time to use their platform appropriately will keep winning in my book, whether they're the underdog or not, because they've changed their brand strategy. Right. Versus. I mean, you know, you don't like me. You don't like me. But Tom Brady, I'm not a super fan of. And I don't know all, you know, all the things he does from a philanthropy perspective. I'm sure he does great things, but it's just sort of like he just comes off more egocentric.
• 28:19
  Speaker C: Yeah. But then I also will, like, say, when people do philanthropy, that doesn't just, like, atone and wash away. Right. Because no,
• 28:26
  Speaker B: no, I can't. Starbucks. No. If you have a
• 28:28
  Speaker C: bigger capital, you should be able to be doing more.
• 28:30
  Speaker B: We talked about this. Because we don't spend enough time doing the research that we should do. Right. I mean, even sort of sophisticated, we're just trying to give people just enough information but do more research. Because the more research you do, then it's easier to make all these distinctions, all this thing. You know, I was thinking about this because you're a conspiracy theorist lunatic. I would argue conspiracy theorists are using this underdog psychology. When you open
• 28:52
  Speaker C: it, probably it's
• 28:52
  Speaker B: true. Think about it. Because it's always against the government or the big or whatever. Like if it's not right. Even if they could be making shit up, but they're trying to win you over. Right. So shit you have to think about. It's super weird.
• 29:03
  Speaker C: No, for the record, it's not that I believe in all these conspiracies. I'm just here for a good one.
• 29:07
  Speaker B: No. Right. No. Cause you like the challenge of the jousting. Right? Right, Right. But I think you said somewhere at the beginning, I said, we'll talk about it later. You said something about why do we just, like, why does our brain automatically short circuit to the smaller guy? Right. So it's that whole shortcut thing we talk about all the time. Psychologists call them heuristics, quick judgments, so we don't have to analyze everything. And the underdog One is super simple. Small means vulnerable, means good.
• 29:31
  Speaker C: Big
• 29:31
  Speaker B: means powerful, means bad. Right. That's sort of it. So go all the way back to, like, when you're in the caveman days. Yeah. And there's a lion, and you're looking at the lion.
• 29:39
  Speaker C: Always goes back to caveman.
• 29:40
  Speaker B: That's what it is. It's survival. Survival. So, like, you don't. You can't figure out. All you're figuring out is, am I gonna be dead or not? You're not like, is that lion nice? Is that lion good? Is that lion bad? How big is that?
• 29:51
  Speaker C: I mean, we are just programmed. Humans are just programmed as humans, man. We're
• 29:53
  Speaker B: hardwired using the same like. So on the one hand, it's so weird because we say, like, we're so developed and we've come so far on so many things, and we have, like, don't get me wrong, like, I think of the advancements in technology and our brains and science and everything. But then on the other hand, we are wired the way we're like,
• 30:09
  Speaker C: yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker B: dude, what is it? It's nature versus nurture. It's like this whole, like. I don't even know where to stand on this. I'm having a meltdown on what I stand. I
• 30:16
  Speaker C: mean, it is. That's why we have this podcast, so people can just think about it. Right.
• 30:19
  Speaker B: Anyway, I know this whole thing was supposed to be a rocky. Whatever. Underdog. Did we do underdog justice? Ish. I mean, wait, did we cover to cover topics? We
• 30:27
  Speaker C: covered everything. Are
• 30:28
  Speaker B: we sure. And you
• 30:28
  Speaker C: also already covered fun facts. But I did. Do you have more?
• 30:30
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. Let me see here. Yes, of course. I always got fun. I always try to make sure. Any fun facts that, like, I'm throwing out, you know,
• 30:35
  Speaker C: we gotta end it on a good note, I guess. All
• 30:37
  Speaker B: right, let me. Let me see what I got here.
• 30:38
  Speaker C: Okay.
• 30:39
  Speaker B: All right, number one. Here we go. Do you know how long it took Sylvester Stallone to write the first draft of Rocky?
• 30:44
  Speaker C: A year.
• 30:45
  Speaker B: Three days.
• 30:45
  Speaker C: What?
• 30:46
  Speaker B: Three days.
• 30:47
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 30:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. Do you know who they wanted to? Remember I said they wanted a big movie star? Yeah. Guess there's a few of them you could just guess any of. I don't care. 19. What was it? 1976.
• 30:56
  Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, Indiana Jones.
• 30:58
  Speaker B: No, no, no, because Harrison Ford didn't get famous till Star wars. That was 1978. 1979. Somewhere around there. Okay. This was 1976. Robert Redford.
• 31:06
  Speaker C: Oh. Oh, interesting.
• 31:07
  Speaker B: What are you giving me that face for? He would have been great. Burt Reynolds. He's Magnum P.I. james Caan. You remember James Kahn or. No. Okay,
• 31:14
  Speaker C: yeah, but no.
• 31:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, they don't fit. Rocky's very fit. Yeah, he did it right. Okay, number two. So remember I said the $100 in his pocket? Yeah, that whole thing. Okay. Before Sylvester Sloan made the movie, do you know he had to sell his dog so he could have for $100 for $40. The story goes, he was so broke, he sold his dog Butt Kiss to some stranger for 40 bucks. And when the movie came through, when he actually signed to make the movie, he bought the dog back for $15,000. And, and super fun fact, Butkiss is in the movie. That's his little dog running around. In the actual movie, it's Sylvester Sloan's real dog. So it like ended good, but like, yes, he sold his fucking dog.
• 31:52
  Speaker C: Wow,
• 31:52
  Speaker B: that's sad. He was
• 31:53
  Speaker C: committed.
• 31:53
  Speaker B: I know. That's why he was the underdog. Sylvester Sloan in real life was the underdog. Okay, number three. Did you know the movie was inspired by Real Fight?
• 32:02
  Speaker C: Oh,
• 32:02
  Speaker B: it was. Yes. In 1975. Yes. A no name heavyweight from New Jersey named Chuck Wepner, nicknamed the Bayon Bleeder, fought Muhammad Ali.
• 32:09
  Speaker C: Oh,
• 32:10
  Speaker B: he was supposed to get destroyed. Instead, he went to the 15th round and even at one point during the match, knocked down Muhammad Ali. Ali beat him in a technical knockout with 19 seconds left in the 15th round. Stallone watched it, went home and started writing it. Years later, Wepner sued Sylvester Stallone for the story.
• 32:28
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: And he actually settled. He actually gave him some money for it because he stole. I don't want to say stole. I mean, Sylvester Stallone was smart enough to write it all down. Isn't that wild? That's
• 32:37
  Speaker C: why
• 32:37
  Speaker B: I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Number four, Rocky was shot in 28 days on a million dollar budget, made about $225 million and won best Picture. It beat out Taxi Driver and All the President's Men. All the President's Men was Dustin Hoffman. Watergate scandal. I think that was Robert Redford too. Yeah. Talk about underdog. That was crazy. Okay. And finally the Rocky statue at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, where like that, you know, he ran up the steps, was built as a prop for Rocky 3. Stallone gave it to the city. The art museum basically said, no, that's not art. It's not going on our steps. So it got moved to a sports arena, then back to the steps for Rocky 5, then away again, and it finally got a permanent spot at the bottom of the steps in 2006, even the fucking statue was an underdog. What is that all about? That's all I got. There you go. Those are my fun facts. I have good fun facts.
• 33:26
  Speaker C: That's a good one. I like that one. That one was a good one.
• 33:28
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker C: All right, so if anybody wants to learn more about Rocky or underdogs, what are we supposed to do here?
• 33:33
  Speaker B: First off, you want the fun facts, or you want our episode summary delivered in your inbox? DM us. I like to chat with you on Instagram, unless you're just trying to rage bait me, so whatever. Anyway, easy one. All we gotta do is watch Rocky next week when it's rereleased. Go. Second one, go. See, I play Rocky. Right, we gotta do that. The new Stallone one that's coming out about him that comes out November 20th. And then if you want, like a brainier version, just read the David and Goliath of Malcolm Gladwell. Flip
• 33:57
  Speaker C: it on a 10.
• 33:57
  Speaker B: Whether you buy his argument or not, it doesn't even matter. I just think it'll make you look at underdogs differently and get you deeper into this whole thing. That's all I got.
• 34:02
  Speaker C: All right, if you don't want to do any of that, just remember these details. It seems sort of sophisticated. Number one, Rocky is the ultimate underdog story. And this week, it's celebrating its 50th anniversary. Spoiler. Rocky loses. Just learned this. But it didn't matter because that was never his goal to begin with as you wrapped it up at the end of the
• 34:18
  Speaker B: episode. Just got to go 15 rounds.
• 34:20
  Speaker C: Yeah. His goal is to go the distance and to prove he wasn't a nobody. And he absolutely nailed it.
• 34:24
  Speaker B: He did. He nailed it.
• 34:26
  Speaker C: Number two, the term underdog was born from dog fighting.
• 34:29
  Speaker B: Sad.
• 34:29
  Speaker C: Yeah. Womp, womp. Where the losing dog was literally the one underneath.
• 34:32
  Speaker B: You know, the crowds in dog fighting. Very fervid. Oh,
• 34:36
  Speaker C: very fervid. We've done that one so far. All right,
• 34:38
  Speaker B: whatever.
• 34:40
  Speaker C: We adopted it for people somewhere in the late 1800s. And a real underdog needs to meet four criteria for us to believe. Low expectations, an unfair fight, real sustained effort, and something we like about them. Number three, it's not just a feeling. It's actually been tested. Psychologists at the University of South Florida found people swing toward whoever looks smaller, even when the only thing that changes is the size of a country on a map.
• 35:04
  Speaker B: Amen.
• 35:05
  Speaker C: But here's a catch. If the underdog doesn't look like they're trying, we bail on them. We just flip. So Quickly, man.
• 35:10
  Speaker B: That's us. That's our style.
• 35:11
  Speaker C: We are.
• 35:12
  Speaker B: Yes, we're the underdog. Americans, man. We flip, Right? Let's go,
• 35:16
  Speaker C: number four. We don't always love the underdog so much as we love the climb. Once David starts winning, he becomes Goliath, and then we turn on him. Tall Poppy syndrome is the name for cutting down whoever sticks out. And finally, the underdog story is a mental shortcut. Our brains evolved to make fast calls, so we decide the little guy is the good guy before we know anything about him. Power tells you who's strong, but it doesn't always tell you who's right.
• 35:37
  Speaker B: There you have it, dear listeners. We started today with a broke boxer losing a fight in Philadelphia. And we ended up with our caveman brains deciding who the good guy is before we even check it out. Hopefully we made the case that rooting for the underdog isn't about who really wins. It's about the climb. It's about watching somebody refuse to let the odds decide who they are. But maybe the more sophisticated move isn't just always root for the little guy, but ask the question, are you rooting for the person or just the position they're in? If we did our job today, the next time somebody tells you nobody believed in them, you'll know to check out whether they've got a private jet. As always, hit subscribe, leave us a review and share it with that one friend who still runs up a flight of stairs and throws his arms up in the air at the top. You know who you are. Until next time, stay curious, Go the distance, because sometimes that's the point of the race.