Latest / Brian Thomas / Citizen Watchdog - Todd Zinser

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Citizen Watchdog - Todd Zinser · Brian Thomas

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Speaker 1: It's seven o six here a fifty five ker CV
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Speaker 1: talk station. Happy Friday, everybody in advanced Happy Father's Date.
0:19
Speaker 1: All the dads out there. I hope you have something
0:21
Speaker 1: great plan for the weekend. Spend some time with the family.
0:24
Speaker 1: Dads out there and you need something to get Dad
0:26
Speaker 1: for a gift, spend some time with Dad. I think
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Speaker 1: that's probably what we all like the best. And in studio,
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Speaker 1: I love it when todds Zen's are citizen watchdogs and
0:35
Speaker 1: of his podcast he is a citizen watchdog and you
0:37
Speaker 1: know all the best best ways. Former Inspector General for
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Speaker 1: the United States of America. He knows what he's doing
0:42
Speaker 1: when it comes to looking at well, for example, budgets,
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Speaker 1: and he knows all about the nonprofit industrial complex. Todd Zinzer,
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Speaker 1: it is always a pleasure to have you in studio.
0:52
Speaker 1: Thank you for what you do all the time in
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Speaker 1: your retirement, spending time looking at records and crunching numbers
0:57
Speaker 1: and well revealing what I always like to call Shnanni.
1:00
Speaker 1: It's good to see my friend.
1:01
Speaker 2: Thanks Brian, it's great to be here.
1:02
Speaker 1: Well, let's start with the number one issue I think
1:04
Speaker 1: most recently reported, the budget and the thing that has
1:08
Speaker 1: constantly jumped out and basically, what is what a billion
1:11
Speaker 1: dollar budget? Essentially eight nine hundred million, or it's a
1:16
Speaker 1: two billion dollars I'm sorry, Wow, okay here, I've been
1:19
Speaker 1: listening to local news reporting on this. I guess I've
1:21
Speaker 1: been duped. Two billion.
1:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, just about two billion. I think it's like one
1:24
Speaker 3: point eight billion.
1:25
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, already corrected the record, Todd. Maybe we can
1:28
Speaker 1: get some more details on the reality of that figure,
1:30
Speaker 1: but two million dollars in either one or two billion
1:35
Speaker 1: dollars doesn't amount to really much at all. But the
1:40
Speaker 1: question mark swirling around I want to start with this
1:42
Speaker 1: Farmer Music Center. I guess why in God's green Earth
1:48
Speaker 1: did per of all and ultimately just barely a majority
1:52
Speaker 1: of council approves sending money to this project. When the
1:57
Speaker 1: project was started and was going to be built with
2:00
Speaker 1: out the city money, why would they vo it seems
2:03
Speaker 1: like a volunteer like, oh, we'll make a charitable contribution
2:06
Speaker 1: the Farmer Music Center. That's all it is. No one
2:07
Speaker 1: was demanding it to the best I can tell, So
2:09
Speaker 1: what in the hell is with the money? I mean,
2:11
Speaker 1: it almost was enough. According to reporting by Scott Wortman,
2:14
Speaker 1: and a new fire class would run about three point
2:18
Speaker 1: two or three million dollars. So they're not doing a
2:21
Speaker 1: fire class. They're kicking that off till next year's budget
2:24
Speaker 1: to close the budget gap. I know you're going to
2:27
Speaker 1: get to that too, but close the budget gap that
2:30
Speaker 1: almost covers the entire nut for a fire class. Would
2:34
Speaker 1: we rather have some new firefighters? Do we need them? Probably?
2:37
Speaker 1: But I'd rather have the firefighters performing a job on
2:40
Speaker 1: behalf of the city than a couple of million paltry
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Speaker 1: dollars going to the Farmer Music Center. You reaction all this, Todd,
2:46
Speaker 1: And have you been able to ferret out why it
2:47
Speaker 1: exactly is counsel or pervol was so insistent on giving
2:50
Speaker 1: money to this project.
2:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the fact is that this music center. I
2:58
Speaker 3: went down to city Hall and to use my two
3:01
Speaker 3: minutes to tell them what an embarrassment this whole thing
3:05
Speaker 3: has been to the city. And I wonder how did
3:11
Speaker 3: it first come to Anna Albie's attention. Anna Albi brought
3:15
Speaker 3: this resolution and bypassed the entire budget process. She introduced
3:23
Speaker 3: a resolution that required the city manager to put eight
3:27
Speaker 3: million dollars for the music center in the budget. This
3:32
Speaker 3: was an advance of any of the budget process. So
3:36
Speaker 3: right off the bat they have to deal with this
3:39
Speaker 3: eight million dollars. And five members of the city council
3:42
Speaker 3: voted to put eight million dollars in the budget for
3:45
Speaker 3: this music center. And it's like, well, how did this happen?
3:47
Speaker 1: Exactly?
3:48
Speaker 2: Who approached too? Who went to who?
3:50
Speaker 3: Because under the rules of the city council since this
3:55
Speaker 3: bribery scandal, there's a rule that any developer that comes
3:59
Speaker 3: to a city council member, they have to be directed
4:02
Speaker 3: to this city manager. So what's with all these discussions
4:06
Speaker 3: between the developer here of the music center and these
4:10
Speaker 3: members of city council. They should have been directed to
4:13
Speaker 3: the city manager. It would have been considered in the
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Speaker 3: budget process process, right, and they probably my guess is
4:20
Speaker 3: if they had done it correctly, they would have gotten
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Speaker 3: there eight million dollars.
4:25
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
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Speaker 3: But I think these city council members thought that this
4:29
Speaker 3: would be a great thing and we would be heroes
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Speaker 3: to the city if we helped build this music center.
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Speaker 2: I mean, you should have heard. You should have heard
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Speaker 2: some of these.
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Speaker 3: Members when they were voting on this eight million dollars.
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Speaker 3: Like Ryan James, he was just about basically out of
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Speaker 3: his seat, saying what a great thing this is, and
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Speaker 3: Anna Albi keeps talking about.
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Speaker 1: Be built any way, Well, you were completing it without
4:53
Speaker 1: this cash infusion.
4:54
Speaker 3: Well, believe it or not. That's what I said when
4:56
Speaker 3: I went down there the first time. I said, I
4:59
Speaker 3: don't hear anybody he's saying that they need this money
5:02
Speaker 3: to complete the project. This, this project is going to
5:05
Speaker 3: go forward whether they get eight million or anything. So
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Speaker 3: I don't know what went on, but somehow they came
5:15
Speaker 3: to this resolution of two million dollars and it's going
5:19
Speaker 3: to be funded out of the capital budget, even though
5:22
Speaker 3: it has nothing to do with the city's capital, so
5:27
Speaker 3: it's not a city assets shoehorn not in there. Well,
5:30
Speaker 3: apparently this is what this is. What's happening in municipal
5:33
Speaker 3: governments all over the country is that if they give
5:36
Speaker 3: money for an economic development project, at least in Ohio,
5:41
Speaker 3: it's considered a capital expense even though it has it
5:45
Speaker 3: has no relation to any city asset. They put it
5:49
Speaker 3: in the budget is a capital expense, and that's apparently acceptable.
5:52
Speaker 3: I I want to question the financial statement auditor to
5:56
Speaker 3: see how they how they deal with it. But apparently
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Speaker 3: it's very common, and so that's what they're going to do.
6:02
Speaker 1: Well. I mean, even Counselmember Scotti Johnson, you've got to
6:04
Speaker 1: give him credibility for at least being candid, although he
6:08
Speaker 1: it's a veiled criticism quote, our credibility is starting to wane. Yeah, well,
6:14
Speaker 1: understatement from my perspective, but at least acknowledge that, Yeah,
6:17
Speaker 1: people are looking at this and go whoa, whoa, whoa
6:20
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, like we are this morning. Where did
6:22
Speaker 1: this brainschild come from? Why did she advances think in
6:26
Speaker 1: advance of the budget? Why didn't Cheryl long A go ahead
6:28
Speaker 1: and do it in regular order?
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Speaker 3: That's right, And there was no mention when they passed
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Speaker 3: this eight million dollars. There was no mention that the
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Speaker 3: state of Ohio had already a budgeted eight million dollars
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Speaker 3: for it with state money.
6:44
Speaker 1: So so is that to suggest that it's now overfunded.
6:47
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's overfunded. I think they do
6:49
Speaker 3: have a funding problem.
6:50
Speaker 1: Oh oh oh. The sins A Symphony Orchestra, which is
6:53
Speaker 1: behind the project. Yes, just doesn't say that part out loud.
6:57
Speaker 1: That's that's the whisper, whisper behind the scene. Geez, we
7:00
Speaker 1: don't have enough money to complete this thing. We could
7:02
Speaker 1: sure use some additional millions of dollars, right, So apparently
7:06
Speaker 1: that the ask was something along the order of eight million,
7:10
Speaker 1: and they're getting two. So perhaps it doesn't satisfy the
7:13
Speaker 1: hole that they've got to fill.
7:14
Speaker 2: That's right.
7:15
Speaker 3: And one of the things that was interesting is when
7:18
Speaker 3: this was introduced, Mayor Purvol took Anna Albi through her paces,
7:24
Speaker 3: asking questions about, well, what's the gap, what's the funding gap?
7:27
Speaker 3: What do they need to fill the funding gap? Is
7:29
Speaker 3: that what we're doing here with our city money? Are
7:31
Speaker 3: we filling the gap? And she didn't know what the
7:34
Speaker 3: gap was, or if she knew what the gap was,
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Speaker 3: she must have agreed with the symphony orchestra or Mami
7:39
Speaker 3: not to say what the gap is.
7:41
Speaker 1: An So you're suggesting Purvol really had nothing to do
7:45
Speaker 1: with with with this ask this with the eight million
7:48
Speaker 1: dollar ask. No, I always kind of had it in
7:50
Speaker 1: my mind, and maybe that's just because I perceived him
7:52
Speaker 1: as to be utterly nefarious. But behind the scenes, he said, hey,
7:56
Speaker 1: Ms Albi, why don't you advance this petition in council
7:59
Speaker 1: so we can make sure the orchestra gets the money.
8:01
Speaker 1: It needs for this.
8:02
Speaker 3: I don't think that's what happened, Okay, fair enough. I
8:04
Speaker 3: think Anna Albie and her other members that she discussed
8:09
Speaker 3: this with, I think they brought it forward themselves.
8:14
Speaker 1: So if they had discussed this sort of offline, doesn't
8:17
Speaker 1: that bring us back to sort of like Gang of
8:19
Speaker 1: Five times exactly?
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Speaker 3: It's like, how did you five get together and agree
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Speaker 3: to vote on this?
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Speaker 1: There are no minutes some councils discussing these.
8:29
Speaker 2: No, I ad.
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Speaker 3: I think they do it, do a round robin on
8:32
Speaker 3: the phone or something like that, or they send their
8:34
Speaker 3: staffs to each other to work some of these things out.
8:37
Speaker 1: Oh my, well, you see all this swirling speculation here.
8:40
Speaker 1: You and I are coming up with theories about how
8:42
Speaker 1: this came about, and just by virtue of the nature
8:45
Speaker 1: of how it came about lends us to this.
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Speaker 3: Spectat That's right, That's exactly right.
8:48
Speaker 1: That's why we need the sunlight of disinfection on all this.
8:50
Speaker 1: But in the final analysis, the budget has two million
8:54
Speaker 1: dollars to go to the Farmer Music Center. Yes, and
8:56
Speaker 1: what's the connection between Maybe this as perhaps a bribe
8:59
Speaker 1: to make sure that can get their hands on the
9:01
Speaker 1: adjacent real estate. That we keep hearing about any connection
9:03
Speaker 1: with that.
9:04
Speaker 3: Well, that's the interesting thing is that it's almost what
9:09
Speaker 3: what what the mayor has done is it's almost trumpion.
9:13
Speaker 3: You know, we'll give you this money, but we want
9:18
Speaker 3: an opportunity to buy this property. And so now where
9:21
Speaker 3: it's at, I don't they have to negotiate this two
9:25
Speaker 3: million dollars. There's going to be negotiations go on to
9:28
Speaker 3: say we'll give you two million if you do X,
9:31
Speaker 3: y Z. And that's that's in that's what they decided
9:36
Speaker 3: the other day.
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Speaker 1: Well, and that is that guaranteed amounts that's from ticket sales.
9:41
Speaker 3: That's one. That's one of the elements. And then the
9:43
Speaker 3: other is this this land that they're looking at, possibly
9:48
Speaker 3: to build a hotel.
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Speaker 1: Is there anything untoward about, you know, the city giving
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Speaker 1: two million dollars to this project in return for a
9:57
Speaker 1: guaranteed amount of annual revenue from sales. I mean that
10:03
Speaker 1: doesn't sound I mean, I'll say the word legal, but
10:06
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound appropriate or it sounds like something that
10:09
Speaker 1: could be subject to some statute or legislation.
10:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why that's what I'm saying. It's kind of
10:13
Speaker 3: Trumpian to just go ahead and force.
10:15
Speaker 2: Your okay for your yourself on.
10:17
Speaker 1: These people don't have to come up a name for uh,
10:19
Speaker 1: for Mary, I have to have parvoal. You can't call
10:20
Speaker 1: them evil orange man. There's already a guy with that,
10:22
Speaker 1: Moniker seven sixteen right now. More with oh and by
10:26
Speaker 1: the way, apparently there wasn't a hole to fill in
10:28
Speaker 1: terms of a budget deficit. More with Todd Zenzer. I
10:29
Speaker 1: want to think about KRCD talk station Brian Thomas. With
10:31
Speaker 1: Todd Zenzer, we call him Citizen watch Dog. That's his podcast,
10:35
Speaker 1: which you definitely should listen to. You're interested in shenanigans
10:38
Speaker 1: going on in downtown Cincinnati. It's almost as if they
10:40
Speaker 1: don't care. Todd Zenzer. It's like, well, we know we're
10:42
Speaker 1: doing things sort of recklessly, and maybe our credibility is waning,
10:46
Speaker 1: but it's only waning in the hearts and minds of
10:49
Speaker 1: people who actually pay attention. There are so few people
10:51
Speaker 1: paying attention to these budget shenanigans. That's how they get
10:54
Speaker 1: away with it, that's right. And they ignore your record's
10:56
Speaker 1: requests of course, regularly, repeatedly, you go to all the
10:59
Speaker 1: cow some meetings, you have things to say that they
11:01
Speaker 1: are free to ignore. Because they're not obligated to respond
11:04
Speaker 1: to you. Right, it's got to be really frustrating.
11:06
Speaker 3: Well, you just have to hold out hope that one
11:09
Speaker 3: of these days it's going to sink in. But I've
11:11
Speaker 3: asked for three things in the last I don't know,
11:13
Speaker 3: two or three budgets. I want them to have their
11:17
Speaker 3: lawyers say what is legally required to spend money on
11:22
Speaker 3: and what is discretionary to spend money on. Want I'd
11:25
Speaker 3: like to see that examination. And I've also asked them
11:29
Speaker 3: to put an attestation on their money requests for these
11:35
Speaker 3: nonprofits that they do not have a conflict of interest
11:38
Speaker 3: with any of them. Just a simple attestation. Well, that
11:41
Speaker 3: seems an easy ask, very easy. Conflicts of interest should
11:45
Speaker 3: be verboten, and I would imagine there's some statute or
11:48
Speaker 3: law of something that makes them verboting anyway. I mean,
11:50
Speaker 3: you got a conflict of interest. We're going back to
11:53
Speaker 3: like the Gang of Five times. That's right, that's right,
11:55
Speaker 3: and all I was looking for because they just submit
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Speaker 3: these memos with these organizations and how much money they want.
12:02
Speaker 2: To give them.
12:03
Speaker 1: Well, which leads us back to the initial comment I
12:05
Speaker 1: made coming out of the break at the top of
12:07
Speaker 1: the art nonprofit industrial complex, which is a phrase that
12:10
Speaker 1: you use, and that seems to be what's going on here.
12:12
Speaker 1: You went through the budget and there is just a
12:15
Speaker 1: very lengthy list of outside organizations that are getting money
12:19
Speaker 1: out of the budget, right.
12:21
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, a lot of them aren't even identified in the budget.
12:25
Speaker 3: They have programs like Safe and Clean and Boots on
12:29
Speaker 3: the Ground, and those two programs send money to dozens
12:33
Speaker 3: of nonprofits.
12:35
Speaker 1: So Boots on the Ground is receiving money. That's the
12:38
Speaker 1: name of a group out there in the world. Yes,
12:41
Speaker 1: and then they're free to go out and pick hand
12:43
Speaker 1: pick whoever the hell they want to receive the money
12:45
Speaker 1: to actually accomplish whatever Boots on the Ground are supposed
12:48
Speaker 1: to do. What is Boots on the Ground supposed to do? Todd, Well,
12:55
Speaker 1: you don't even know.
12:57
Speaker 3: It's community yeah, fluff language, it's community activities.
13:03
Speaker 1: In these neighborhoods that are underserved and in need. That's right, Okay, Here,
13:07
Speaker 1: Boots on the Ground have some how much money they get?
13:10
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't remember that.
13:12
Speaker 1: But your point is it's a fuzzy goal to be achieved.
13:16
Speaker 1: One entity gets it, but it's not them. They're supposed
13:19
Speaker 1: to be performing the work. It's others that they choose
13:21
Speaker 1: to hire nngo's presumably, or subcontractors, or however they held
13:25
Speaker 1: their relationship works. Is there any follow up by counsel
13:29
Speaker 1: on any of the recipients of this type of money
13:31
Speaker 1: to find out if whatever nebulous goal that the thing
13:34
Speaker 1: was started for has actually been achieved.
13:37
Speaker 3: Well, the only audit that I've seen of one of these,
13:41
Speaker 3: they're called leverage support recipients Leverage support wow, Right, It's
13:46
Speaker 3: an audit that they did a couple of years ago
13:48
Speaker 3: of an outfit called the Regional Economic Development Initiative, which
13:53
Speaker 3: has been receiving money from the city for many, many,
13:56
Speaker 3: many years. And there was an audit that the hern
14:00
Speaker 3: audit manager did where she came back and said that
14:04
Speaker 3: the records were in such condition that they couldn't even
14:06
Speaker 3: be audited. She identified a fourteen thousand dollars a shortage.
14:11
Speaker 3: And when I went to city council because they were
14:15
Speaker 3: considering last year's budget where this group would get more money, right,
14:20
Speaker 3: I said, shouldn't you find out whether they fixed their problems?
14:24
Speaker 1: The paperwork problem?
14:26
Speaker 3: Right, a paperwork problem before you give them more money?
14:28
Speaker 3: That went right over their heads.
14:30
Speaker 1: Lord, And it continues year after year after year. I
14:35
Speaker 1: want to bring times in back. We got them for
14:36
Speaker 1: a full hour. I want to talk about this whole
14:38
Speaker 1: big problem with the giants. Defind KRNC the talk station
14:43
Speaker 1: at seven thirty figive I have KRCD Talk Station Brian
14:45
Speaker 1: Thomas with in studio Todd Zenzer Citizen Watchdogs for podcasts
14:49
Speaker 1: and you got to take a listen to that one
14:50
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Of course, former Inspector General
14:53
Speaker 1: for the United States of America bringing his Inspector General
14:55
Speaker 1: skills to look at the budget. And we're talking about
14:57
Speaker 1: right now. One of many topics we could go over
14:59
Speaker 1: with Todd zen and zins are including the affordable housing
15:02
Speaker 1: project over in Westwood. We may very well get a
15:04
Speaker 1: chance to get to the railway money because they've of
15:06
Speaker 1: course had to rely on that for the budget. But
15:08
Speaker 1: the nonprofit industrial complex, I asked you off air, Todd,
15:13
Speaker 1: do we have any idea how many people are employed
15:16
Speaker 1: as a consequence of these massive capital infusions, all these
15:20
Speaker 1: outside organizations. And I think the political patronage was a
15:26
Speaker 1: word that you used. It seems to be the this
15:30
Speaker 1: has become a substitute. You know, government jobs used to
15:33
Speaker 1: be patrons jobs. Hey, you know, my nephew needs a job,
15:36
Speaker 1: happy to pledge your campaign? Just give them. Okay, well,
15:38
Speaker 1: maybe you can't get away with that, but you could
15:41
Speaker 1: hire them on as a employee one of these NGOs,
15:43
Speaker 1: or like iris Rolla, you can hire your son after
15:45
Speaker 1: you've got a six hundred and fifty thousand dollars contract.
15:48
Speaker 3: That's right, That's exactly right. And we really don't know
15:50
Speaker 3: how many. Well, first of all, it's difficult to determine
15:53
Speaker 3: how many of these nonprofits are actually getting money from
15:56
Speaker 3: the city, and then it's even more difficult to figure
16:00
Speaker 3: out how many people they're employing.
16:02
Speaker 1: Ponder your first statement, it's difficult to even know who's
16:08
Speaker 1: getting money.
16:08
Speaker 2: That's right.
16:09
Speaker 3: These are budget line items, that's right. And yet, so
16:14
Speaker 3: these budget line items will give money to a nonprofit,
16:18
Speaker 3: and then that nonprofit will go and identify other nonprofits
16:23
Speaker 3: to help accomplish whatever it is they're supposed to do, like.
16:25
Speaker 1: You pointed out in the last illustration of the last segment.
16:28
Speaker 1: So that's happening on many layers. Yes, So let's say
16:32
Speaker 1: four allocations to four different outside entities, and then that
16:36
Speaker 1: money's divided and goes into a whole bunch of other enngines. Now,
16:41
Speaker 1: you had mentioned something about the Angio must have as
16:44
Speaker 1: its primary source of funding money other than government dollars.
16:48
Speaker 1: How does that work well?
16:49
Speaker 3: When at least this is how it worked under the
16:53
Speaker 3: Leverage Support program.
16:54
Speaker 2: They've made some changes to all of that in this budget.
16:56
Speaker 3: So it's hard to say, but prior to this budget,
17:01
Speaker 3: in the Leverage support category, people or groups would have
17:05
Speaker 3: to submit applications, and as part of that applications, they
17:09
Speaker 3: would have to say that they're basically a going concern
17:14
Speaker 3: without the city's money. And I don't know that that's
17:18
Speaker 3: ever been tested.
17:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand your your cynical of a sort of
17:24
Speaker 1: attitude towards that, Todd, I really do well. There's not
17:27
Speaker 1: enough paperwork to support a multitude of things, So I mean,
17:30
Speaker 1: why would you think that that's that you know, they're
17:32
Speaker 1: actually a going concern absent city money. All right? And
17:35
Speaker 1: then this all pivots over to the broader concept of
17:38
Speaker 1: oh my god, we're in a crisis. We have a
17:41
Speaker 1: thirty million dollar hole, we got a fill. We're gonna
17:43
Speaker 1: have to make cuts here and cuts there. You told
17:45
Speaker 1: me before we started this morning that there's no budget hole.
17:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no budget cap.
17:52
Speaker 3: One of the very telling things about this thirty million
17:55
Speaker 3: dollar deficit, A big chunk of money in this new
18:00
Speaker 3: budget is fifty four million dollars carried over from the
18:05
Speaker 3: last budget. So they had fifty four million dollars left over,
18:09
Speaker 3: which is more than thirty million. So it's just it's
18:15
Speaker 3: just a very strange process because you know, there's there's
18:20
Speaker 3: two aspects to the budget, the rep the projected revenue
18:25
Speaker 3: and the spending and the city. Earlier this year they
18:30
Speaker 3: used to get their revenue projections from the University of
18:34
Speaker 3: Cincinnati's economics group. Well, they fired you sees, and they
18:40
Speaker 3: brought their estimation in house. And I wrote a letter
18:45
Speaker 3: to the finance director. It's like, well, why did you
18:47
Speaker 3: do that?
18:48
Speaker 2: Where?
18:48
Speaker 3: Why did you fire you see? And all he told
18:51
Speaker 3: me was that, well, the council members raised concerns about
18:55
Speaker 3: their work or something like.
18:57
Speaker 1: That, because the accounts members are certainly in a position
18:59
Speaker 1: to judge the economic number crunch shot from all the
19:03
Speaker 1: egg heads at University of Cincinnati. Sure they are. Why
19:06
Speaker 1: am I immediately reminded the doctor Fauci hiring in his
19:09
Speaker 1: own team of experts to comment on and present a
19:11
Speaker 1: paper on the Wuhan Institute of Virology lab leak theory.
19:15
Speaker 1: The old guys, now, we can't take them at what
19:17
Speaker 1: they're saying. They're saying it leaked out of a lab.
19:19
Speaker 1: Let me bring my own team in here. Ah magic,
19:22
Speaker 1: we don't really know. We're not going to comment. That's
19:25
Speaker 1: exactly my There you have it more Todd z Inser
19:27
Speaker 1: at seven thirty five right now, fifty five KRC, the
19:29
Speaker 1: talk station fastened pro roofing the best roofers a rent.
19:33
Speaker 1: It's seven forty here fifty five car City Talk Station
19:36
Speaker 1: burn Tom with Todd Zinzer going through the budget. For
19:39
Speaker 1: the most part, there's a multitude of topics. We go
19:41
Speaker 1: over with our citizen watchdog, former Inspector General for the
19:43
Speaker 1: United States government, Todd Zenzer, who's in the studio. But
19:47
Speaker 1: talking about this this thirty million dollar deficit, and you
19:51
Speaker 1: mentioned how the numbers are crunch Councils told what on
19:55
Speaker 1: a three month lag what the projected revenue is coming in, right,
19:58
Speaker 1: and then they base their sp on that. And the
20:02
Speaker 1: reason the way you get to the thirty million dollar
20:04
Speaker 1: deficit that's been oft repeated and never really questioned. And
20:08
Speaker 1: I'm guilty that though so far, I just took everybody
20:10
Speaker 1: at their word. You say they calculate the deficit based
20:14
Speaker 1: upon the number projection of what's coming in the door
20:17
Speaker 1: by way of revenue compared to what they want to spend.
20:22
Speaker 2: That's right.
20:23
Speaker 1: Meaning if they wanted to spend an extra two hundred
20:26
Speaker 1: million dollars, then they could say they have a projected
20:30
Speaker 1: budget revenue deficit of two hundred million dollars. That's exactly
20:34
Speaker 1: whatever exceeds the revenue coming in the door, that's allegedly
20:37
Speaker 1: the deficit.
20:37
Speaker 2: That's right.
20:38
Speaker 1: Well, that makes no financial sense.
20:39
Speaker 3: No, it's I mean, there's so much discretionary spending in
20:42
Speaker 3: the budgets to suggest that there's thirty million dollars that
20:47
Speaker 3: we must spend, it just doesn't It just doesn't make sense.
20:51
Speaker 3: The budget is nothing but a plan, and Monday morning.
20:56
Speaker 3: It might start today, but Monday morning they're going to
20:58
Speaker 3: start planning to move money around in the budget. Every
21:02
Speaker 3: meeting they move money around, and you just it's.
21:06
Speaker 2: Very difficult to keep track of.
21:08
Speaker 3: But this idea that we can't manage a two billion
21:10
Speaker 3: dollar budget and come up with thirty million dollars is ridiculous.
21:13
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure, anybody who knows what some of these
21:15
Speaker 1: expenditures are could easily take a scalpel and slice away
21:19
Speaker 1: millions and millions and millions of dollars. Absolutely, and most notably,
21:24
Speaker 1: what really particularly irks me is maybe, yes, it's a
21:27
Speaker 1: nonprofit industrial complex out there. I have to guess that
21:33
Speaker 1: some of the recipients of this money are actually accomplishing
21:36
Speaker 1: some kind of goal. Yes, but if they aren't looking
21:39
Speaker 1: to find out if they don't have any you know,
21:42
Speaker 1: matrix or some sort of you know document, a report
21:45
Speaker 1: to say, look like, for example, youth violence, how many
21:48
Speaker 1: youth violence programs are out there? How many ndos are
21:50
Speaker 1: connect with youth violence? I mean that's one of iris
21:52
Speaker 1: rolies kind of things too, isn't it. Government square. We're
21:55
Speaker 1: going to give her allocations. They can buy some T
21:57
Speaker 1: shirts and hire some people and walk around and oh,
22:00
Speaker 1: I don't know, bridge the gap. Oh. It seems to
22:04
Speaker 1: me the youth violence has remained a constant problem and
22:06
Speaker 1: it actually maybe even have gotten worse, suggesting that whatever
22:10
Speaker 1: efforts they have engaged in by way of funding these
22:12
Speaker 1: outside organizations to fix the problem, have it worked.
22:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:16
Speaker 3: Well, what they say, Brian, is that well, if we
22:19
Speaker 3: weren't doing this, it would be a lot worse.
22:21
Speaker 1: Oh that's to say, now, isn't it that's proven a negative?
22:25
Speaker 2: That's the response.
22:27
Speaker 1: Well, and I suppose in certain things. You know, it's
22:30
Speaker 1: like trying to keep a glass of water that has
22:33
Speaker 1: a hole in it in the bottom. You've got to
22:35
Speaker 1: keep pouring the water in to keep that flowing.
22:38
Speaker 3: Right, It's a never ending demand. I mean, Cincinnati is
22:42
Speaker 3: in the top five for poverty rates in the United States,
22:46
Speaker 3: and so there are a lot of residents that are
22:50
Speaker 3: in poverty, and so the city responds with all of
22:54
Speaker 3: these programs. And I really don't think people have a
22:57
Speaker 3: big problem spending money. They just want to know what
23:00
Speaker 3: they're getting for their money, right, and whether it's being
23:03
Speaker 3: spent properly well.
23:04
Speaker 1: In responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars. Would insist on that happen,
23:08
Speaker 1: that's right, because they want to show one that listen,
23:11
Speaker 1: we got a great bang for your buck. This has
23:13
Speaker 1: been demonstrably successful. Look at the crime rate drop and
23:16
Speaker 1: these given neighborhood where these projects were going. That's why
23:19
Speaker 1: we want to continue to fund this one. And oh
23:21
Speaker 1: look over here, these projects apparently didn't work because it
23:24
Speaker 1: didn't have an impact zero on whatever they were supposed
23:27
Speaker 1: to be doing.
23:27
Speaker 3: That's right, and that's the analysis that should be done.
23:30
Speaker 3: This city doesn't do that. I think it's just all
23:33
Speaker 3: very political.
23:34
Speaker 1: Well, very political. Going back to how it is that
23:36
Speaker 1: some of these folks get these jobs, maybe rewarding folks
23:39
Speaker 1: political patronage.
23:40
Speaker 2: That's right, that's exactly right.
23:43
Speaker 1: All right, So we're going to address a couple of
23:45
Speaker 1: other topics coming back. I'm going to maybe touch upon
23:47
Speaker 1: the railroad money. You have identified some serious issues with
23:52
Speaker 1: regard to how maybe they're renaming projects or try to
23:55
Speaker 1: shoehorn them into the capital budget when so they can
23:58
Speaker 1: shift new projects into thepital budget and then have existing
24:02
Speaker 1: infrastructure being dealt with what normally would have come out
24:05
Speaker 1: of the capitol budget. So shnanigans with the railroad money.
24:08
Speaker 1: I know, we'll see if we can get any accountability
24:10
Speaker 1: from that and whether they've answered any of Todd's questions,
24:12
Speaker 1: because I know you've raised quite a few. Todd Zenzer
24:14
Speaker 1: first USA installation. I've got a great, great thing to
24:17
Speaker 1: let you know about USA talk Station seven fifteen about
24:22
Speaker 1: KRCD Talk Station Brian Thomas with Citizen Watchdog Todd Zenzer,
24:25
Speaker 1: former Inspector General for the United States in America. We're
24:27
Speaker 1: going to the budget and related to issues in the
24:29
Speaker 1: city budget, let's talk about the railroad money. Widely reported
24:32
Speaker 1: that they got a you know, fifty eight to fifty
24:34
Speaker 1: nine million dollars in the Raever, that's the interest that
24:36
Speaker 1: was generated off of the initial one point six billion investment.
24:39
Speaker 1: Got a railroad board that monitors that investment, and they
24:43
Speaker 1: allocate the money. When the city comes over and says
24:45
Speaker 1: we need money for this project.
24:47
Speaker 3: They actually allocated every quarter. They they send a tranche
24:52
Speaker 3: of money to the city every quarter.
24:54
Speaker 1: And that's based upon the amount is based upon the
24:56
Speaker 1: projects that the city has earmarked for infrastructure projects.
25:01
Speaker 3: No, it's just it's based on under the state law.
25:05
Speaker 3: The railroad Board determines every year, once a year, how
25:09
Speaker 3: much money they're going to send to the city, and
25:12
Speaker 3: then they send that to the city on a quarterly basis.
25:14
Speaker 1: But the projects that I mean, the city can't use
25:17
Speaker 1: the railroad money for anything. It needs to be what
25:20
Speaker 1: we've all boiled down to existing Infrastructure's correct. So they
25:23
Speaker 1: can't build a brand new skateboard park with railroad money.
25:26
Speaker 2: No, they can't.
25:27
Speaker 1: And yet you're telling me the railroad will send them
25:29
Speaker 1: over a finite amount of money every quarter. Just here
25:32
Speaker 1: here it is right, that's right. There's no pre check
25:36
Speaker 1: like you can't. Is there any railroad involvement after the
25:40
Speaker 1: fact that say, are you using it on existing infrastructure?
25:43
Speaker 3: No, I've been advocating for the board to take some
25:47
Speaker 3: role in oversight of that money.
25:49
Speaker 1: Well, who's enforcing the contractual provision that required the money
25:52
Speaker 1: to use for existing infrastructure?
25:54
Speaker 3: Todd Zinzer, Well, I guess we have to rely on
25:57
Speaker 3: the city to do that.
25:59
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, and in this hour, you've given all
26:02
Speaker 1: the reasons in the world. Why should we we just
26:03
Speaker 1: take the city at their word. There's nothing un toward
26:06
Speaker 1: going on here, but Todd, okay. The other part of this,
26:11
Speaker 1: it's that this is going to add insult to injury.
26:14
Speaker 1: You're saying the city is taking this allocation of money
26:16
Speaker 1: from the railroad, the money that should only go to
26:19
Speaker 1: existing infrastructure. They're taking it out of investment account, and
26:23
Speaker 1: then the city is putting it in its own investment account.
26:27
Speaker 3: Yes, the money that the money that the city can't
26:31
Speaker 3: spend from the railroad trust that they get every quarter
26:35
Speaker 3: or every year. Now if they can't spend it, they
26:39
Speaker 3: put it in their investment pool with all their other investments.
26:42
Speaker 1: And pause on that. The reason they wouldn't be able
26:45
Speaker 1: to spend it is because they haven't gotten a project
26:47
Speaker 1: off the ground to throw the money at it.
26:50
Speaker 2: Right.
26:50
Speaker 3: They spend a lot of time planning on how to
26:53
Speaker 3: use the railroad money. We've got this elaborate since the
26:56
Speaker 3: on Track plan, where they've they've spread the money all
26:59
Speaker 3: over the city that they're going to spend over the
27:01
Speaker 3: next ten years. They spend projects aren't ready, The projects
27:04
Speaker 3: aren't ready, and the city does not have the capacity
27:08
Speaker 3: to contract and spend and carry out all these projects.
27:12
Speaker 3: And I think I think I could probably easily put
27:17
Speaker 3: together a case that they're not spending more money than
27:23
Speaker 3: they received from the railroad on an annual basis. They
27:27
Speaker 3: used to get twenty five million dollars a year, and
27:31
Speaker 3: the negotiations were taking that up into thirty million. Thirty
27:34
Speaker 3: five million, that's basically what they spend on new infrastructure
27:39
Speaker 3: or exists the infrastructure maintenance a year. It's thirty five
27:42
Speaker 3: to fifty million dollars. We didn't really need to sell
27:45
Speaker 3: the railroad to generate that money.
27:47
Speaker 1: Of course we can't unring that bell. We wish we
27:50
Speaker 1: didn't have the stadium deal. We got stuck with either,
27:52
Speaker 1: but too bad so. But they're taking that money and
27:57
Speaker 1: they're putting into their own investment which generates interest. Right,
28:00
Speaker 1: So millions of dollars coming in goes into the City
28:02
Speaker 1: of Cincinnat's investment account, which generates interest. That's new revenue,
28:06
Speaker 1: that's right, that the city presumably can use for anything
28:09
Speaker 1: at them what pleases, like things that aren't existing infrastructure.
28:13
Speaker 3: That's where I would disagree, and I've been advocating. Well,
28:16
Speaker 3: first I advocated that the that the board not send
28:20
Speaker 3: them that money right until they need it and keep
28:23
Speaker 3: it in the trust.
28:24
Speaker 1: Kind of thought, that's the way it was supposed to work.
28:26
Speaker 3: Well, that's the way everything else works in the world.
28:28
Speaker 3: You draw down the money when you need it and
28:31
Speaker 3: then if that's not going to happen, and that I
28:34
Speaker 3: hope the board is still considering that, because they said
28:37
Speaker 3: something about coming back in September on that issue. But
28:41
Speaker 3: if you're not going to do that, then we need
28:43
Speaker 3: to see on their ledgers what they're doing with this
28:47
Speaker 3: investment income that they attribute to the board. There was
28:51
Speaker 3: a there was an agenda item the other day or
28:54
Speaker 3: the other week where they did exactly that on these
28:57
Speaker 3: restricted funds. When they earn interest on that restricted fund,
29:02
Speaker 3: that interest has to be spent on that purpose. So,
29:07
Speaker 3: for example, if they get revenue from the water district,
29:11
Speaker 3: they've got to spend that money on the water district. Okay,
29:14
Speaker 3: it should be the same way with the railroad money.
29:16
Speaker 3: We should our accounting should be that exact.
29:22
Speaker 1: But you're saying they're just not in a position to
29:24
Speaker 1: be able to manage the projects basically across the board.
29:27
Speaker 2: No, that's right.
29:29
Speaker 3: No, they've got they've got ten years worth of work
29:34
Speaker 3: to do easily.
29:36
Speaker 1: Well, and one real quickline item considering you mentioned ten
29:39
Speaker 1: years with the work, my understanding is we are many
29:42
Speaker 1: years of road miles behind in repaving. They cut from
29:46
Speaker 1: the one hundred they were planning on repaving from the
29:48
Speaker 1: budget now down to seventy road miles, so we're continuing
29:52
Speaker 1: to build an even bigger backlog of unpaved roads.
29:55
Speaker 2: That's right.
29:56
Speaker 3: And I don't know that they've ever hit that one
29:58
Speaker 3: hundred mile and so now there now they have the
30:02
Speaker 3: money to fix.
30:03
Speaker 1: It, but it's existing infrastructure, right, Hey, there's a project
30:07
Speaker 1: shovel ready, they've got equipment. They can start working on
30:10
Speaker 1: all of them.
30:10
Speaker 2: Right, No, let's.
30:11
Speaker 1: Knock down that road, no pun intended. Todd's ends are
30:14
Speaker 1: always enlightening, always walk away.