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SMNTY Classics: Alice Ball · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sandy and Samantha and welcome to Steff.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I Never told you a production of iHeart Radio. And
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: as this comes out, we were in February, which is
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Black History Months, and during Black History Months, we like
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to bring back a lot of the stories that Eaves
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: is brought to us of amazing Black women in history
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: for Female First. So starting with that, we wanted to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: bring back the story of Alice Ball. It is really
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: an amazing one, so please enjoy this classic episode.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Steff.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I Never told you production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And it is time for another edition of Female First,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: which means we are once again joined by the wonderful,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: wondrous Eves. Welcome Eves. Hi.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to be here, as I am every time.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, and this is kind of a special experimental thing
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: we're doing today because Sminty may or may not be
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: dipping our toes into TikTok. Maybe I know, I know
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the horror, so we are kind of unexpectedly recording this.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Like videos.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: I'll say when we say tiptoeing and to TikTok, we're
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: being told by our gen z or researcher that we
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: need to we need to get into the we need
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: to get into the social medias so they will be controlling.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: This aspect makes look better.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm also concerned that the youth, as you say,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: eves are like, oh no, please, this is the end
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: of TikTok.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: I have seen on TikTok. They're like, please, if you're
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: over thirty, stop it.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Well here, we gen zs.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Are like, this is ours And I'm like, oh, but
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: I like watching talk videos and such.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, we can be sort of quarantined
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: to a certain area of TikTok.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's okay.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's true.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: They do have very specific algorithms. So for those who
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: are thirty.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: We stop to address the fact that he wants to
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: go into another type of quarantine. Now you're putting this
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: into a virtual box.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Oh you're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't do that to you.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Eaves are very valued.
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: Guessed this is a poor star for our TikTok career
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: into the mainstream. That sounds like something somebody was saying
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: in Dystopia.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Oh it is dystopian. Have you not seen the news?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: It is well, Oh my gosh. Well, yeah, and we
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: were just talking about nightmares. We've had so a lot
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: of I would say, stress is.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Being felt by a lot of people.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: But you know, this story that you bought today is
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: equal parts inspiring and heartbreaking.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: And I'm so again, I'm like stunned.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't know about this, so I'm really really eager
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to talk about it.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Who did you bring for us today, Eves?
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: So today we're talking about Alice Ball.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: She was the first black American to graduate from the
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: University of Hawaii. She was also the first woman to
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: graduate from the University of Hawaii with a master's degree
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: in chemistry. She was also the first Black American female
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: chemistry instructor at the university and the first Black American
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: woman to be published twice in the Journal of the
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: American Chemical Society, and that was in nineteen fourteen and
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: in nineteen seventeen.
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: So she did all that work. And she was early.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: On in the recent for leprosy, which is something that
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: has existed for a long time, which we'll talk about
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: also called Hansen's disease, but she was instrumental in developing
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: the first effective treatment against leprosy, which is tied to
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: something that people around the world were using in a
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: medicinal way long before Alice Ball was ever born, but
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: she was instrumental in doing some of the lap work
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: that was key to bringing it to a point where
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: people were able to use it as an injectable and
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: treatment of Hanson's disease.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and those are quite a lot of first and
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: she did it in such a short amount of time.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we often see I feel like we often say
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: on here, Wow, they were so young, they did so
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: much in such a short period of time. And it's true.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: It is true with her. She unfortunately lived a short life,
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: but accomplished a lot during it.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so why don't get into it.
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: Let's do it. So.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: She was born Alice Augusta Ball on July twenty fourth,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: eighteen ninety two, in Seattle. Her grandfather was a photographer
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: in the nineteenth century, and her father's name was James
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Presley Ball, and he was a newspaper editor, a lawyer,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: and he was also a photographer. So it's been set
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: by some historians in the course of her story that
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: the chemicals they use in their photography, because they were
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: working with degerat types and things like that, that may
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: may have had some sort of influence on the work
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: that she did as a chemist. But her mother was
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: named Laura Luis Ball, and she Alice herself, was the
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: third of four children. Her older brothers were William and Robert,
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: and her younger sister was named Addie, and her family
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: was relatively well off. They were around middle class to
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: upper middle class, and they lived in Seattle until nineteen
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: oh two, but her grandfather was dealing with arthritis, so
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: the family then moved to Hawaii in hopes that the
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: better climate would help out with his health. They lived
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: in downtown Honolulu when they went to Hawaii, and Alice
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: went to school at a place called Central Grammar from
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: nineteen oh two to nineteen oh four. But around that
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: time her father died and then the family moved back
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: to Seattle and she went to Seattle High School and
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: she graduated in nineteen ten. She did really well in school,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: and particularly in her science classes, so it makes sense
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: that she moved on to continue to work in science.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: She then attended the University of Washington, where she got
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: two Bachelor of Science degrees.
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: She got one in pharmaceutical.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Chemistry in nineteen twelve, and she got another one in
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: pharmacy in nineteen fourteen. So these are things that were
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: not super common happening back then in terms of women
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: and specifically black women and the academic sciences and getting
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: their master's degrees and moving into fields as professors as
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: well in the sciences was something that was not at
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: the time. She published an article with her pharmacy teacher
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: in the Journal of the American Chemical Society called Benzolations
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: an ether Solution, and she chose to get her master's
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: degree from the College of Hawaii, and it was at
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: that point she graduated. That happened in June of nineteen fifteen.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Her thesis at the time was called the Chemical Constituents
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: of Piper Methysticum the chemical constituents of the active principle
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: of avarut, also known as kava root. She studied that
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: plant to see how it could be injected as a
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: treatment for medical condition, which ties into her later work.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Upon graduating from a College of Hawaii, she became the
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: first woman and the first black person to graduate from
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: the school with a master's degree. So from nineteen fifteen
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: to nineteen sixteen, she also taught chemistry at the college
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: and she became the first black woman professor in the
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: chemistry department, and while she was teaching at the school,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: a man named doctor Harry T. Holman asked her to
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: research how to make chelmuughra oil better at treating people
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: with Hanson's disease, which was, like I mentioned earlier, also
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: known as leprosy. So Holman was an assistant surgeon at
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: a hospital in Hawaii called Kalihi and he worked with
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: patients with Hanson's disease. And so there's a long history
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: of leprosy and how it was treated across the world
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: over many centuries, but also in the US, and Hawaii
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: has his own specific history of leprosy.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: I'm sure a.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Lot of people have heard the terminology leper colonies a
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: place that people who had leprosy were directed to. And
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: of course there's also a lot of stigma around the
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: actual condition of leprosy. And because of that, there's also
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: stigma around the word of leprosy that when people hear leprosy,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: they may associate it with certain things. If they're not
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: they don't have a deep or even a surface understanding
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: of how leprosy actually affects people.
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  Speaker 5: It causes discoloration of the skin.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: It causes ulcers, muscle weakness or paralysis, and even things
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  Speaker 3: like eye issues that may lead to blindness and other
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: symptoms that are related to the skin and to nerve damage.
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  Speaker 5: And the bacteria that caused the disease.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Were identified in eighteen seventy three by a Norwegian physician,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: but like I said, by that point it had the
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: condition had been around for a really long time. There's
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: evidence that it's existed for thousands of years, and in
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: the United States in the twentieth century, one way that
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: doctors commonly tried to handle leprosy patients was by isolating them.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: It's just like, well, we think.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: They're really contagious, and we don't we know what to
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: do with them. But if they're really contagious and it
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: spreads easily, we don't want everybody else to have it,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: so we're going to just contain them to a specific area.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Based on the limited knowledge and also all of the
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: stereotypes that were happening around people who had Hans's disease
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: at the time, so they were sent to leprosy hospitals
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: and to still call it leper colonies and as what
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: often happens too. Of course, there are many other demographic
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: and sociological issues tied up into the way that people
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: were treated and isolated. So a lot of people who
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: were in Hawaii. Of course, most of those people who
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: were sent to this communities of people who had leprosy
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: were Native Hawaiians, but there were other ethnicities who were
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: there as well, And of course Hawaii is very isolated
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: and that made it the quote unquote perfect place to
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: isolate people who had leprosy. But anyway, one of these
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: kinds of communities existed in Hawaii called kalaile Papa, and
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: people with advanced cases of the disease were often forcibly
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: transferred there and they lived in exile basically and often
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: for their entire lives.
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: The stigma existed around.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Leprosy because of all the biases that people had, the
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: ignorance about how the disease worked, how the condition affected
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: people physically, because it did have physical effects, these things
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: that people saw and viewed people in a different way
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: morally because of it. The didn't understand how it spread.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: They thought it was really contagious, which is not that contagious,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: definitely not as contagious as people thought it was. Back
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: then they considered them unclean, morally inferior, or less lesser
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: than from a social status standpoint.
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: So all of these things.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Were wrapped up into why people were isolated who had
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Hanson's disease, which at the time, but people had this
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: all over the world, so it wasn't just happening in Hawaii,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: and that wasn't the case over all the time. Even
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: though it did migrate from Europe and Asia over to
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: the Americas, it didn't always exist in Americas. But isolation
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: wasn't the only way that doctors treated Hanson's for a while.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Like I said earlier, people around the world did use
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: taumuger oil from the Chaumuga tree. People in India and
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: China were using this medicinally and it was used to
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: treat Hansens as well as other skin conditions, and so
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: some of these trees at a point were planted in Hawaii,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: but doctors in the US were having trouble treating it
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: effectively with that oil. The oil doses were nauseating and
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: injecting it could be painful and it could cause skin abscesses.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: So therein there is a problem that needs a solution
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: that people realize, Hey, this taumuger oil has been used
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: for many, many years and other societies, so they already
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: clearly have medicinal knowledge of how it's used for this condition,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: but it could be improved upon, and so that's where
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Holman comes in, and then that's where Alice Ball comes
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: in as well.
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: So basically at that point, Ball was doing double duty.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: She was doing all of her teaching work during the
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: day and on the side she was working on making
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: this ChIL mugra water soluble and able to be injected
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: into patients who had leprosy.
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: And Arthur L.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Dean, who was then a chemistry professor, helped her with
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: this work. She ended up being successful at creating that
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: injectible that was made with the active components of the oil.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: She used freezing the oil to help her make that
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: injectible and then after that many people were released from
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: isolation in the wake of that discovery. But unfortunately, Alice
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Ball did die very young in nineteen sixteen. She it
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: was reported that she inhaled chlorine gas in one of
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: the classes that she was teaching, but her death certificate
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: also set tuberculosis. So there is some debate over how
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Alice Paul actually died. She got sick and couldn't publish
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: her finding, so she didn't publish her findings before she
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: passed away. She went back to Seattle from Hawaii in
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: October of nineteen sixteen and died in December thirty first
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: of that year, and she was only twenty four years old.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: And Dean, Arthur Dean, he did continue her work after
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: she died, but he didn't credit her for her work
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: in this publication.
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: And here in.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Lies one of those stories that feels like it's apocryphal
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: or like some sort of odd, terrible archetype of things
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: happening in history, where it's like the man takes credit
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: for everything that the woman did.
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: But that is what happened in this case.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: The method became known as the Dean method, which is
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: like throwing salt on the wound, and a bunch of
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: treatment was of the treatment was produced and used around
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: the world. That had a bunch of potential and people
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: were really hopeful that it would make a big difference.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: But and then there were no Hansons.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Patients who had Hanson's disease who were sent to kloup
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Papa between nineteen nineteen and nineteen twenty three and The
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: injection was used to treat people for years, but by
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the end of the nineteen twenties, people realized that the
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: treatment wouldn't be a complete cure or help to completely
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: set clad Papa down. Shut it down till oil was
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: replaced by treatments that were more effective medications by the
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: time of the nineteen forties and beyond. So in the
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: work that Arthur Dean published in nineteen twenty two, he
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: mentioned Ball's work in researching the treatment. He rolled it
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: back and he was like, no, you know, Alice Ball
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: was the one who did this work. You know, she
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: was a pioneer in this research that was done in
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: order to create this treatment that helped people. And here's
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: a quote from that publication he said, quote about the
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: time that Rogers and Ghosh were starting their investigations in
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: India and Hawaii. I interested Miss Alice Ball, MS, an
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: instructress in chemistry at the College of Hawaii, in the
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: chemical problem of obtaining for me the active agents in
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: the oil of chaal mugra. After a great amount of
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: experimental work, Miss Ball solved the problem for me by
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: making the ethyl esters of the fatty acids found in
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: chalmugra oil employing the technique herewith described and he goes
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: on and he proceeds to describe what he calls Ball's method.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: So reattribution is happening there. So there were people who
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: came across her work, Catherine Takara, I think it is
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: in Stanley Ali who came out across her work and
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: records in.
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: The nineteen seventies. And it was a long time.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: It was a long time when her work just the
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: fact that she had done it and that, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Dean did reattribute the work to her, but that didn't
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: really people still didn't.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: Really know about it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: You know, it was still Dean's meant that he was
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: the one who had helped get this treatment out to everybody,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: and Ball's contributions weren't specifically and deeply known. So they
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: brought that back to light and over time, over the
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: most the past few decades, her work has been more recognized.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: In two thousand and seven, the University of Hawaii gave
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: her the Regent's Medal of Distinction, and back in two thousand,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Hawaii did proclaim February twenty ninth to be Alice bal Day.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: But of course that is a day that only occurs
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: on leap years, so because it only happens every four years,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: the governor Hawaii went ahead and said, okay, February twenty eight,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, just this year, he said that that
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: was Alice Augusta all day. And in terms of leprosy overall,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: many more advancements have been made since Alice Ball did
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: her work.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: People with Hansen's disease do have a.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Cure that is available to them now, and it's largely
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: treated with antibiotics. So that's the story of Alice Ball
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: is she did a lot in her twenty four years,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: and she accrued a lot of first as well. And
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I'm just I'm really happy that her work is being
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: recognized now because it is one of those cases of
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: somebody else not only taking credit for her work, but
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: doing it in a very deep way where it's like, no.
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: This this is in my name.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Method is in my name, and that it was able
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: to be reattributed to her, it's a good thing.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad that. I'm glad about that too,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: But it is kind of like you did it when
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: it was too late, Like everybody knows it as this now,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: and it was sort of when all these other developments
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: were happening, So I am very glad it happened. Also,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I've never heard the word instructress before.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: That was a new one for me. But yeah, I wish.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: It's so tragic that she died so young, and she'd
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: already done so much, so who knows how much more
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: she could have accomplished, and she had such an impact,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: And I yeah, it was a story I had never
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: heard of. I really didn't know much about leprosy, to
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: be honest. Yeah, so I'm so again. I'm so happy
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: that you bought this to our attention. I'm happy she's
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: getting the recognition she should serve. I'm very sad she
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: didn't get it in her life for earlier.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: There's a lot like when you look at the context
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: of when this occurred, there's so many things to unpack
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: because even today we know that when it comes to
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: women and especially marginalists, women, especially black women, and stem
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: or steam is rare still like to the fact that
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: people are still questioning, you know, women being doctors, a
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: black woman being a doctor, or you know, anything in
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: the science field, engineering field. So it's lovely to see
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: that she broke down these walls. So early on. It's
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: awful to think that she didn't get that credit until
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: what late nineties slash early two thousands, and looking at
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: finally Hawaii, like, yeah, she definitely did these things, but
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: also like we understand it was in the late eighteen hundreds,
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: early nineteen hundreds, It had been in the process of
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: being colonized the entire time, and there was there was
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: battles happening for that land and that resources, even to
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: the point that today, hey, people don't recognize or don't
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: even know the history of Hawaii. Like it took me
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: to the last five years, I understand. Oh yeah, they
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: really were, really were like colonized and taken advantage of
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: it and still are to this day. Kind of saying
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: with Puerto Rico. Whole different episode, but these conversations of
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: like how this laid out and then having this deep
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: history trying to unearth and remember some of the amazing
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: things that did occur at the same time, as well
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: as the fact again yes, that she was a young
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: black woman coming into a field being an instructor, which
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: again amazes me, and it's like wow, I wonder again,
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: like the battles she had to go through Again, you
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: had said that she came from a pretty well to do.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: That's the word I wanted.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: To really Yeah, yeah, I'm like, how do I say this?
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: But still, you know, there were challenges, you know, there
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: were so many uphill battles for her and her family,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: and the fact that she was an instructor and was
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: able to instruct other people in this field is phenomenal.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: And maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion in that
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: I really wish it didn't have to be a big deal.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: But of course, like I said, even today is still
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: kind of a big deal. Like seeking people who are
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: able to continue in this field and to thrive in
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: this field is difficult because of all the obstacles that
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: are placed in front of marginalized people in general. So
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: her story is beyond amazing. And even if she hadn't
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: done this metads, which she did, which is an amazing
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: feed and she should be credited for that work, the
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: things that she had already done is an accomplishment in itself. Again,
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: and for me as a person who has no understanding
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: of science hardly at all. And then like the things
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: I know of leprosy comes from like biblical to teachings,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: which pretty much submit unclean that what we.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: Know that is that's a lot of people's experience.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: I'm sure, Samantha, I'm smart, it's fine, But like all
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: of these things come into play that you're like, wow,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: this this information, this story. There's so many folds to
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: this that in her young life there again, as you said,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: there's so many first that she should have been accredited with.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: This we should be talking about, and how amazing this
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: individual and I hope her support system. So it seems
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: we're able to get her to this place for her
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: to work and fight for this place again, kind of
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: diminished by the fact that people try to take credit
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: for her work, of course, but at least we are
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: finally hearing about it. Like there's so many things to
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: this that I'm like fascinated, really want to dig deep into,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: like who was this woman and how did she get there?
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: I'm done now, microphone down.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: It's just my scattered mind to thinking about all the
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: processes of like how, wow, where did she come from?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: How did this go?
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: Why haven't we talked about this more?
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: Why aren't we talking about this more?
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: Again?
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I would have had no idea had you not brought
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: this to us, Like this woman would not have been
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: familiar to me at all.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's one of those things where you wonder
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: if she would she have even ended up doing this
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: work if she didn't end up in Hawaii serendipitously, Like,
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: of course, it was for an unfortunate reason that she
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: did end up going to Hawaii for the illness in
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: her family, but because she ended up there, she ended
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: up there in proximity to a challenge that was happening
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: on the island at the time, which is that these
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: people were in isolation and she was there to help
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: come up with treatment for them. So it's one of
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: those things where it's like, clearly she ended up there
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: for a reason, she was able to help in the
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: work that she was doing there in the short amount
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: of time that she did have on this earth.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And sometimes with these I get a little, you know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: almost scared of like what if this guy had never
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: said she didn't do this, and people don't do the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: research and then they don't know. But I'm always hopeful
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: when you come on to Eaves because you're like, no
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: people are doing this research.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: These people won't be forgotten.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing these
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: people to us and these amazing stories to us.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm happy too, thank you, like thank goodness for
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: all these people who are doing niche things.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Right, Yes, yes, honestly so much.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: Yes, there are so many moments when you talk about
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: this one person discovered this one name and then they
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: went down this rabbit hole and discovered this whole new
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: aspect of this that I'm like, oh my god.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: It literally was like.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: A detail that they got and they just like, this
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: looks important.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: You have to be committed to the idea of something,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: to believe in something that maybe has never been combined
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: in certain ways before that other people would may never
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: think to work on. So I think that's really admirable
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: in some of these people's stories too.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: So to those people who continue to dig deep, thank you,
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: and that includes you, Eves.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: Thank you. And if people call you weird, it's okay.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: It's okay because people probably will call you weird for
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: doing so many things, but I just know that greatness
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: is in the future for you.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: We would never because we really really appreciate all of you.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, thanks to some always ease for coming on.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Where can the good listeners find you?
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: You can find me on many and many other episodes
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: of Stuff Mom Never Told You doing other female firsts
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: in history, about other amazing women who had innovations, breakthroughs,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: and first You can also find me on a line
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: on Instagram at not Apologizing. You can also find me
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: on Twitter at Eve's Jeffcoat and if all else fails,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: just go to Eves Jeffcoat dot com.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: That's y v E.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: S j E F F C O A T dot com.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, so that.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I were just talking about the stress of spelling things
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: on podcasts.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know why it's so stressful it is.
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: I'm like, nope, I'm I'm gonna do it because I'm
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: gonna mess it up.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: It's like a panic moment. It's interesting.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Well, go check eves out listeners if you haven't already online.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: If you want to cotton tact us, you can. Our
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: email is Stepanie mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: You can find us on.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: producer Christina, thank you, Thanks to you for listening, and
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: also Eves, thanks for being part of this TikTok experiment.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You may or may not see it. Listeners, I don't.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: Know, and thanks well Joey, who is ahead of the
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: show whenever they start this.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you, yes, thank you, and we're sorry Steff I've
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: never told you his production of iHeart Radio. For more
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check out the
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.