Latest / Learn Literacy Podcast / 11. Francine Hannon - OG Practitioner
Transcript
- Cheryl Urbanczyk: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the Learn Literacy podcast. I'm excited today to have a practitioner profile and I'm here with Francine Hannon from Massachusetts. So I'm excited to talk to her about Orton Gillingham and hear about the great work she does. So welcome Francine, thanks for being here today. FH: Thanks Cheryl, happy to be here. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Awesome. Well, you usually start by asking people about their OG journeys, like where you first learned about OG, how you did, you know, what was your training experience like, how got to be where you are today. FH: Sure. I'll share a little bit about myself. So I am a public school teacher. In my role, I work with special education students only in ⁓ reading. this is my, ⁓ gosh, 16th year in teaching. And ⁓ I probably about Orton Gillingham like my second year as a teacher. And the school that was working in at the time, Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. FH: had the language-based learning program. And so I had always known that students in this program received a lot of support in reading, writing. And then there were two teachers in the school who did Orton-Gillingham. And I didn't really know what was at the time, but I knew that like did their reading with those two teachers. And then Orton-Gillingham kind of found me. So then... you I was a teacher at the school and they needed to add more staff who could do reading instruction in this. And so my principal had said to me, this feels like something that you would be really good at. And she's like, I'm going to send you to this. And I was like, great. So I was very fortunate that my school district paid for, the first coursework that you do at the associate level. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. FH: as well as the practicum, which was really generous. so since then, I've completed the associate level and I went on to do this third level as well. Cheryl Urbanczyk: That's great. And so ⁓ are you able to support students more in a one-to-one experience? Are you working in groups? I'm just wondering, what the model is like, because in Ontario, we don't have many instances of public school teachers doing Orton-Gillingham in schools. So just about the model. ⁓ FH: Okay, yeah, so I'm no longer at that school, but I am within the same public school district, just in a different elementary school. And we do have opportunities for one-on-one instruction with students, at the elementary level when, they can make greater gains when they're younger. I also do work with some small groups too. Sometimes ⁓ students, but most of the time two students. And so it's really great because the kids really get the targeted instruction that they need. Cheryl Urbanczyk: And how long do you work with students? you work with them for a set amount of time and then you switch to other students or until they meet criteria or benchmarks or? FH: Yeah, so the students that I work with all participate in special education. So they have an IEP. typically, I would say most students work with me four times 45 minutes a week. So four days a week, 45 minutes in length. Some children get less, three days a week. And I'm usually the person that does their evaluations, and I write their IEP goals, and then I work with them. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm hmm. ⁓ that's wonderful that they can get such intensive support. And think you're right on in terms about it being early rather than late and so helpful that way. ⁓ FH: Yeah, it's really great for the kids and they know exactly what they're working on. They know why they come to reading. Never had to explain to a child why reading is important. They just know and so they're very motivated and they know what they work on. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that's neat. right. So ⁓ terms of your growth as an OG practitioner, how do you feel now compared to when you first started? What do you see as your own personal and growth along that time? FH: I feel like there's always something new to be learned in Orton Gillingham. I really enjoy going to the conference every year because I do feel like I walk away with something that I'm like, ⁓ I haven't tried that before. Like I should be betting like, some this, a different strategy for like morphology, for example. so I do feel like, when I started Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. FH: teaching Orton Gillingham, my understanding now as a practitioner is definitely more in depth. there are things that I've tweaked along the way in my scope and sequence for students. And every student is different. But just being more thoughtful about, I think of the misconceptions about Orton Gillingham is that it's just phonics. And it's so much more than just phonics. And I'm always trying to embed. more layers that I can in my instruction. Cheryl Urbanczyk: neat. ⁓ would be something you'd want to learn more about in terms of helping? said there's always something new to learn. Is there a particular area that you want to dive in that you think would really enrich your instruction? FH: So as a public school teacher, have to work with everyone. And sometimes the students they work with are not your classic dyslexia profile ⁓ or your classic ⁓ language-based And so I ⁓ would love learn more about how to meet neurodiverse populations because structured literacy benefits all And so, like how to modify it for that population, know, how far can they get with structured literacy practices with their kind of neurodiverse profile. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm hmm. I think that's really important. And I think, all see kids coming with, let's say, comorbidity with the tension or maybe some writing or many things, right? And how all those interplay to allow us to support the student is needs a lot of that ⁓ I want to learn too. And it's interesting that you said that because that's been a theme that's kind of come up ⁓ in other conversations I've with people. FH: Mm-hmm. Cheryl Urbanczyk: that we all see the need for that. I think when we think about individualized and emotionally sound, those principles, I think that's where, there's some good avenues for learning and growth there, speaking for me too, FH: Mm-hmm. Exactly. ⁓ I understand and I totally acknowledge that, Orton Gillingham was developed for a dyslexic profile and I think it be adapted for other populations too, but I would like to know more about what really works and, ⁓ how to meet those needs. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. do you see, challenges your current practice with ⁓ Or ⁓ you said there's other teachers do OG you are? Is there enough of you? Do you find that? do you have like roadblocks, stumbling blocks, challenges, things like that? FH: me think. So I work in a pretty affluent community that's very well educated and has, a strong social status. So I would say ⁓ the parent community highly educated in what Orton-Gillingham is. So which is nice, in role, usually along like the MTSS timeline. where students receive intervention through general education and they qualify for special education. I would say some of the challenge is in terms of what is the correct amount of service delivery? Can the students be grouped? Are the groupings ⁓ Are they not a great grouping? So some of that is outside of my control just ⁓ in a public school. ⁓ Cheryl Urbanczyk: Right. Yeah. FH: So, but you know, I do the best that I can to advocate for my students and what they need. So we make it work. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah. ⁓ think, sometimes logistics are just logistics and within the framework that you have, it's, you just have to do, the best that you can. But it's nice when parents have that knowledge about OG ⁓ and can support ⁓ their and help them that. So. ⁓ FH: Thank Cheryl Urbanczyk: So that's good. So do you see any urgent pressing issues ⁓ in organ drilling practice in school that or going good. FH: Sometimes, like I was mentioning before, like some of our neurodiverse populations, sometimes because there is so much parent education, sometimes there are misconceptions about Orton-Gillingham as well. And like if it's truly the right intervention for a student, for example, a student with a Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. FH: cognitive ability like far below what's typically average. sometimes we have families who are advocating for that. So I think, parent education is great and sometimes there is also additional education that's needed and ⁓ what will be effective for a which is why I do want to learn more about Cheryl Urbanczyk: Hmm. Mm-hmm. FH: it's appropriate for other populations. So that's a few barriers. Cheryl Urbanczyk: I think you're right on point there that sometimes when there's various complexities to the profile, it may be more challenging to figure out the best support and how to meet that child's needs with what you have. if have MTSS, are you like the tier three intervention then? So what they do for tier two? Is it just more like in class support and the FH: Exactly. Cheryl Urbanczyk: teacher does some extra group work with the student like that. FH: Yeah, so I would say tier three is like special education. And two is typically working with a general education teacher, ⁓ or sorry, a general education literacy specialist. ⁓ And can be in a push-in model in the classroom, but it can also be pulling out of the classroom in a small group. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. It's great. There's different levels of support. a lot has happened within a short time in the past, five years or so to get many of these models in and they're ⁓ seeing good results, but like a whole change process, ⁓ to get there. FH: Yes, and the science reading is like very hot right now. And I don't think there's a single parent out there who wants to feel like their child is missing out on that. So there's a lot involved. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yes. for sure. So are future goals as an OG practitioner? FH: would love to pursue the fellow training at some point. I know that it'll happen in the immediate future for me. but it is a long-term goal that have. and ⁓ until then, I love my job. I love working with children. ⁓ the growth that make is just so rewarding for them and for me. ⁓ and then. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. FH: Aside from that, I've always told my husband, I'm like, someday, I really want to work with adults, perhaps adults who are incarcerated. Because whole prison to pipeline illiteracy, I there's a lot there that those groups of people can use some support. ⁓ But those are all like very long-term plans. Cheryl Urbanczyk: kind of of the feeling ⁓ if we don't put things out there, we might not our goals, right? So that's really awesome. And I think, there's a lot of work with adults who are dyslexic. And sometimes the focus is just on kids, but there's other age groups that need support, too. So yeah. ⁓ FH: Thank you. And who may have not even realized that they have dyslexia, but now as an adult come to this realization of why they struggle as children. So think ⁓ to able to help adults would be really meaningful. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Okay. Yeah. I agree. That would be wonderful. We need lots of good people out there doing that work. as we kind of wrap up today, what would be a piece of advice that you would share for other practitioners or maybe something that you wish you had known when you started your OG journey? would you want share? ⁓ FH: gosh. Probably to like find your people. I I'm very fortunate in my role that there are several people in my school that have Orton Get the Cam training and certification. And it's great just to be able to bounce ideas off of other practitioners on, ⁓ I'm seeing this a student. What do you Do you think, maybe I should give this a try? ⁓ And just find your in, helping you talk about kids because every kid is unique and different and, ⁓ ⁓ I think like more better with finding people that can support you and the that you're working Cheryl Urbanczyk: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, I think the role of community is so key. think after COVID, I think one very positive thing in the OG world is just the connection by technology and training by technology because the reach is so much greater. All the tutoring that's happening by technology and But yeah, finding your people is a big deal because we learn a lot from that interaction too. So it's not just the training and stuff like that. Okay, well thank you very much Francine. I appreciate learning about you today and being with us. You have given us lots of inspiration for supporting students and takeaways that we can think about. So I appreciate your time today. FH: Thank you, thank you so much, it was a pleasure. Cheryl Urbanczyk: Thanks.