Latest / Skin Anarchy / Faith Cummings, Journalist, Editor and Copywriter

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Faith Cummings, Journalist, Editor and Copywriter · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Speaker Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ecta, and today is another um episode in our editorial series.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Faith Cummings.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Faith is a beauty editor, she's a journalist and a copywriter for multiple brands and magazines.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Faith.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are so excited you're here with us, and we can't wait to talk about your background, your career journey, everything that got you started in beauty.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy to be here, and I always love talking about beauty.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um in terms of my career, so I feel like my career, I've had a lot of experience in different things, but two of the through lines in my career have been e-commerce and editorial.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I started getting into editorial.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: I would say in college, I just had you know a few different internships.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: One of the biggest internships I had was at WWD.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to school for language action actually.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I wanted to be a translator, but as I was going through some of the translating work, it didn't really feel super exciting to me, which of course, now that I'm older, I understand that like you need to be in it for a while before it gets exciting.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, I I felt like I really wanted to get into fashion, but I just didn't know how to do it.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, for my first internship, uh, which was before WWD, I went on Craigslist and found an internship that way.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So my first internship Oh my god, that's when Craigslist was actually like legit.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, a lot of people still use it, I think, if you want to find, you know, furniture and other things like that, but that's when people were on Craigslist looking for jobs.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: So it was for this really great brand that's still around, um, called Migalina, which is a fashion brand.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was in production, um, and and I, you know, did it for a couple of months, but it it wasn't really calling out to me.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the team was absolutely amazing.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I loved working there, but you know, I felt like I wanted something more, and so that was kind of a summer internship.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then when it was winter break, uh I was able to get another internship at WWD and I worked in the accessories closet, um, which was right up my alley.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, W was just across, you know, the the hall.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I really felt like, okay, I want to be in magazines and editorial.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so that's kind of what I decided to pursue after school.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I I had tried a little bit of translating work, but it really didn't, it didn't call to me.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I decided to try to get in magazines and editorial.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: I started doing you know some internships.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: I actually um you know did an internship at Fashion Week, which was super, super fun to see if I liked that.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: I did an internship at Cesare Paciotti, which is an Italian shoe brand.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you should check them out.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you haven't, they're really, really great.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um good too.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're they're they're actually they have red souls like Lou Buton, but yeah, so it's very, it's very, very interesting.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how that intellectual property works out on their end.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: But um, so I ended up uh interning there, but but where I landed was ultimately um a luxury online retailer and catalog called Viv.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's defunct now, uh, unfortunately.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: But they sold everything from Vera Wang to Michael Kors collection, boon kit jewelry, Laurel Piana, so really high-end fashion.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I started as an intern, and then you know, we kind of fell into a recession.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so I actually got weirdly promoted.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, my supervisor got let go, so I was kind of there hanging.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was me and you know, my direct supervisor, who was the head of buying, who were left.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of got that job, and so I was exposed to a lot of high fashion at that time.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really my start.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: My start was in fashion and and e-commerce that way.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, at the same time, in parallel, I also was starting to write.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I was writing for free on this blog.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to kind of get my feet wet.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I felt like I had things to say, but I really wanted to kind of cover fashion.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I was kind of one of those people who was uh a diehard for style.com and wanted to see all the collections.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So so that's really what I wanted to do.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to report on fashion and beauty, beauty was always there as well because fashion and beauty is especially at that time with Fashion Week being so big, they they went hand in hand.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like you were getting both at the same time.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: So beauty was always there.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: It just wasn't in my career as much at that time.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I I was there at Viv for a couple years, and then I ended up moving to Victoria's Secret.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I joined as a freelancer.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was on their digital coordination team, which was not at all a creative job.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was very um, you know, it was kind of behind the scenes, setting up the website navigation, being a, you know, kind of liaison with, you know, web operations, the e-commerce merchandisers.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: So that kind of gave me an insight into how a big corporation and company worked.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um and at the same time, I started to take my writing to the next level.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: I started to get paid for my writing, which was really great for me.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I started feeling amazing, amazing feeling.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's a feeling everyone should have, but you know, at the time, to be honest, we we were taught at that time to be allowed into the fashion industry was a privilege.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so your the internships, you didn't get paid for them.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm lucky and and I'm privileged in that, you know, I'm born and raised in New York, so I was able to, you know, still be living at home, you know, being 21 and 22.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, a lot of people who aren't from New York or or don't come from a background where they could make$10 a day and it's okay, they're they're not able to get that.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm very happy now that um internships are taken seriously.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of hard work and people deserve to be paid for it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's a lot of more there are a lot more laws and legalities now, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Around like interns, like hiring interns and like paying them and not abusing them and exactly.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's just you know, you deserve to earn something for your money.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter what industry you're in.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad that they've made that change.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, I started getting you know paid for my writing and I started writing for bigger outlets, you know, started writing for Glamour, and you know, started writing for Vogue and L.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: And some of it was from, you know, people I had met and known and a little bit of networking, but a lot of it was me cold pitching a lot of these outlets.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so I I'm always a proponent for that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um What do you mean by that?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by I'm sorry to interrupt you?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by like cold pitching?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like what does that mean?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know the thing about editorial worlds.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: So the idea that you would essentially find what someone's email is.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you would see their email on, you know, maybe a media site, or maybe you would see it on a site where they're looking for a freelancer or an intern, and you would send them an email and pitch them an idea, propose them an idea.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I had started to do that and found a lot of success in doing that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: So, of course, as you kind of get more bylines, it becomes easier.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I I I'm always grateful that at that time I was able to have so many editors who were receptive, who would give me feedback, and who ended up working with me and kind of getting me published at the beginning.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that that was was really exciting for me.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, like I said, I was at Victoria's Secret.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it was fine when I was in more of a, you know, just e-commerce behind the scenes role.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, it was funny in that my one of my bosses, I was actually at Victoria's Secret for almost nine years, so very, very long time, especially in like millennial speak.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like a lifetime, most of my career.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you saw it like completely mold, like the whole company, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I remember when we were in high school, I don't know, like um, you know, what you're you were born in, but I remember being in high school and Victoria's Secret was this like, oh my gosh, you know what I mean?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like this huge deal, and then like it became more of like a norm, you know, people started buying more and like you started seeing it in more places.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure that must have been really cool to see that kind of change.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's so cool.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's honestly, I mean, most women you meet, and now I think luckily we're able to have more conversations and that are inclusive.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of people you meet have Victoria's Secret underwear, their market share in around the globe is is just astronomical.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: So you see new brands coming up now, but at the time there wasn't any.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, when you think about affordable, more affordable kind of underwear.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So absolutely, I mean, it was really cool.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: I learned so much.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, toward the the last few years of my tenure there, I was able to move onto the app and really kind of lead content strategy for the app.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and they revamped the app.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I believe this is 2016.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of came on the team for that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that was just such a great learning opportunity for me.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I really felt at the time this is the job that I want, um, just in terms of working with other teens on content, creating content, really driving home the importance of, you know, things like the Met Gala, Coachella, those kind of topical moments where, you know, these supermodels are there, but we weren't necessarily covering it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, really just being a content evangelist.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that was super exciting, but it was also a time where beauty started to come into my career there because they were becoming better known for beauty.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, of course, we all know Victoria's Secret sense, like they're they're very iconic throughout the years.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone had, you know, one of the sprays, like, I mean, it was a it was a thing, you know, but they were, you know, also becoming really well known for fragrance and winning awards and makeup.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so we were able to showcase um a lot of beauty on the app.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so that got me into a mindset of thinking about beauty from an e-commerce perspective and a business perspective because I grew up loving beauty.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, my mom and my grandmother cared about beauty, my mom is skincare queen, like I, you know, I aspire.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, she's on just like a different level in terms of like, of course, what she can afford, but like she has always loved skincare and beauty.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I always did as well.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I'm more of like a natural beauty person, she's more of like, give me the Kevin O'Quan, give me the Mac.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I always know what's interesting though is that every like I often think about this, and I feel like our mothers had this like classic beauty about them.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like women from that time period, they're just this like classic, um, you know, just their own style kind of thing.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So like everybody I talk to is like my mom or my grandmother really taught me about beauty and skincare.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah, because they were, I feel like they had their own like thing that they did.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's like I feel like that's a trend every time I talk to somebody.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's so it's so personal.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think for for a lot of women, it is that kind of personal connection you have with it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we didn't have they and they didn't have at the time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now we have YouTube.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: So if I want to know how to do anything under the sun, I can just go on YouTube, but but you didn't have that back then.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it had to be word of mouth or it had to be someone teaching you and showing you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: So um that's kind of how how I learned to love it.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't say that I was a makeup fan.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I'm more so now, but at the time when I was growing up, I was a little bit intimidated and scared by makeup.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't like the idea of changing how my face looked.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like that, that freaked me out a little bit.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's there's actually like a really funny story.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: When I was having my sweet 16, we decided to go to Mac.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh might have been a couple weeks beforehand to kind of test out how I could do my makeup.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so they did my makeup, and it was in um Rosewelt Field, which is like a big mall in Long Island.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I went to look in the mirror at my face and I burst into tears.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was so I was so like I was so shocked by how I looked.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I now I mean I looked beautiful.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like Mac is gonna give you uh an incredible beat, but the idea of like a beat face, you know what I mean, at the time at 16.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: I like some some girls love that, but for me, I I didn't like it at all.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: It felt too grown.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's too grown, I feel like, you know, like exactly, exactly.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so so that is just such a funny story.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like every time I bring that up, my mom is always like, Do you remember that time?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um and now, of course, I literally write about beauty and makeup.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's a fun story from the past.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean at Victoria's Secret, um, definitely just getting more into beauty, um, especially with the app.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, I I I left uh VS and then I went to Fakai and Bastide.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: So that it was really a hundred percent beauty.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that was really exciting because I stepped into you know though those brands as a copy and content writer in both French and English, which was great.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: I I got to use my French, which you know, uh finally that paid off.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I saw that in your bio that you are fluent in French.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I I love language, that's always going to be something that that I love no matter what I do.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I was really excited to do that, and just working with with you know, Fakai is an iconic brand, and then working with Bestide, and just Bestide is very dreamy and um just aspirational.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did that for about a year, which was really last year, so leading almost up until now.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: So um that's kind of been my journey.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: But then in terms of editorial, I'd say over the past five years or so, I've really started to write more about beauty and really just focusing on women of color, on natural hair, um, on you know, textured hair education and how important that is, and and just you know, how crucial it is to put um, you know, black-owned brands, women of color-owned brands to the forefront of the industry.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because very often, you know, those brands don't get as much shine and and they really, really and truly deserve it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not even about the brands, right, Faith?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about like, in my mind, it's like the the young women that are growing up, like to be able to show them, like, hey, you know, the way you look and the way you are is a beautiful thing.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And here's somebody that looks like you, and you know what I mean?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like something to aspire to.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know, you know, women of color, I feel like I don't know if you agree or not, but when we grew up, it was like kind of like piecing together what we thought was beauty.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's how I saw it, you know, from my perspective.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, like now, when I look at magazines and I see all these beautiful women of color on the cover or like featured, I'm just so happy to see that because I know there's a little girl somewhere just flipping through a magazine, you know what I mean?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Oh, I I see myself in this, you know?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely different from when I remember from when we were growing up.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: A thousand percent.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I, you know, growing up in I I grew up in Queens, New York.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I saw a huge amount of of diversity around me, and that is reflected in my friends and who I went to school with and and just even beauty that I liked.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I was growing up, I went through this whole phase where I wanted to get henna all the time.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so I mean, now, I mean, now of course you look back at that and you're like, was that cultural appropriation?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but like I, you know, in Queens, there's so many henna shops.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I went through a moment where I wanted to have henna and just, you know, now I write a lot about um, you know, Asian beauty and Korean beauty and Japanese beauty.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I I always felt very comfortable based on the way I grew up seeing different kinds of beauty.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: But you're right in that when I would look into the mainstream, especially in in fashion, there was only one kind of beauty, or there was one kind of beauty that you could tell was preferred.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so it it was a bit of kind of cognitive dissonance in that I knew there was so much out there, and I was seeing it in my real life, but in this kind of fairy tale life of fashion and beauty, it wasn't shown.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I am really happy that young girls and that young people in general have more examples.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm happy that, you know, social media can be a gift and a curse, but I'm happy that, you know, I think a lot of young people can find, you know, their kind of group and people who are like-minded.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and see a lot of that because that's that's super important to have that representation.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I want to go back to your point about the henna and the cultural appropriation thing because I definitely do not think that that's cultural appropriation.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I say that is because when I first, so I was born in India, and when I first um came to the States, um, we were in Michigan, but then we moved to Cincinnati, Ohio.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when I first went to this Magnus school, the first friends I had were African American girls, and they were the first to embrace me.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like, you know, like just being like this kid from India, you know what I mean?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had no friends, like I had nobody, and they showed me things like, you know, this is lip gloss, Ekta.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this is the cool, like they made me feel confident in myself.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like, and and I used a lot of the products that they grew up using, like, you know, a lot of like, you know, like the things they would use for their hair, for their lips, or for their skin.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I, and I feel like I kind of did the same thing um as you described, the henna thing, but with a lot of things that, you know, African American culture has in terms of like, you know, daily products and stuff.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't feel like that's cultural appropriation.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's more of the um, you know, the fundamental of America, which is the melting pot mentality, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, we have to like kind of take from each other and learn from each other, and that's exactly what I felt like.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I can completely relate with you.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's my point with growing up in like kind of a diverse environment.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I'm happy to hear that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, like, you know, when you look through the lens of 2020, I mean, I think you look back and things look very different.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, of course, it I never felt like I was appropriating.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, clearly, you know, I would I was going into these places, you know, and I was being received with open arms.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, these are definitely, you know, but I I think for me throughout the years, what I started to learn was that, you know, henna has a purpose and it's part of tradition.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: and and there are customs.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I learned more about it as opposed to just finding it very aesthetically beautiful.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: I started to learn about the the history of it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so once I did that, then I felt like, okay, like this is something that, you know, if I get it, I I know what I'm getting.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of it just being almost like for vanity purposes, you know, just finding it very pretty, which it also is.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I think that's important because here's the thing, you know, I lately in the last few years I've been doing a lot of research about just, you know, obviously we all know, want to know where we come from, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we look up our family trees and we look up, you know, history and stuff like that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the things that I found have really opened my eyes in terms of how cultures kind of um migrated in the world, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So like I I look at you know African culture and I look at you know Caribbean culture and then Indian culture.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there's this huge intermingling aspect that was there long, long before like centuries ago.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there were a lot of things that were overlapping.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so now we have this you know distinction between okay well you know in the Indian community we use henna for like the marriage, you know what I mean?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And weddings and stuff.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: But you know that can also be said about like for example Bengals and like you know um like bracelets and stuff.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people have debates about well this originated in Africa and well no it originated in India.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: It I feel like that like you know the nitpicking thing I feel like it almost puts us back.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of saying like hey why don't we just understand that we were all at some point intermingled and we were all kind of connected at one point and we all learn from each other.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how I approach cultural you know what I mean like cultural stuff.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like um I if I see anybody with Hin on, unless they're doing something that's like vulgar or like completely like you know just not at all respectful of you know the custom, I don't have a problem with it at all.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it doesn't bother me.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just like I'm sure if I got braids or if I did my hair in a way that's like very conducive to African American hair, I'm pretty sure all of my friends would not hate me for it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like yeah I think I mean it it's it's tricky.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I would say that intention matters for sure.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah um and and I think you're so right you know it it's very interesting being being black because a lot of the times being black means having this vast mix of diff different cultures.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you know I'm Caribbean American but I'm also Latinx because my dad is from Panama um and so even to to to be Caribbean means that yes we do have you know you're you're you're from the islands but yeah there is a lot of people from the islands are Indian.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like my you know my great grandfather looks like looks like an an Indian man.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like you know we have Trinidad Trinidad and like Guyanese people right like it's that's exactly where my family's from yeah I spent six years in the Caribbean actually faith like I spent yeah and I and I realized how much that's exactly kind of the I'm so excited you said this that you know about your background because when I was in the Caribbean this is exactly the kind of stuff I noticed there is this huge blending of cultures you know what I mean especially in Trinidad like you know Indians and black people and everybody is just you know they're just intermingling and they're they're connected in this like national like you know they're nationalists in a way right it's like instead of saying well I'm this or I'm that um and so when I when I noticed that I was so so it's like eye opening you know what I mean like it's almost like you feel more at home in that kind of a culture.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly and so I think that that's you know like you're you're right when you think about origins I mean origins get really tricky because the whole I mean granted they go back to you know the idea of trade and and once people realized that these different areas where it's whether it's the islands whether it's you know all these different countries in Asia realizing that these countries are so rich in resources and they had these things at the time that were thought of as exotic um you know people wanted to spread them around the world.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes that was done by means that were good and other times and many times it wasn't by great means.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean people came to be very um like you said blended in these different countries and I think it's it's very beautiful but you know that means that when you look back at your history or your culture you're gonna get a lot of different influences and inspirations.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so like you said um you know no one thing might come from you know a certain people it might have throughout time um been blended with other customs of theirs but I think it intention definitely matters and I think people should do the research and and know what's appropriate and and what's not I think like you said um you know you have friends who who are black and so you might feel very comfortable um embracing certain things and I feel like for me growing up the way I did um you know I feel comfortable embracing things but I also want to make sure and I want to make sure that I'm not offended offending anyone or that I'm not wearing something that I shouldn't be wearing.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think that I want to be more purposeful and intentional with the things that I like to do now.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Of course yeah and and so I think that that matters but I think it is nice to to really take part in other cultures but not in a way that um is grabby like understanding that like you have a role to play in honoring whatever they do and you should really understand that you're a participant you know you're not gonna be an arbiter of it you you can have fun with it as long as like you have someone's blessing but to understand that you know understand your role in it um and yeah exactly and you know what that reminds me of is carnival in the Caribbean because I remember when I was down there I mean I you know I'm not gonna lie to you Faith when I was in the Caribbean I felt like you know there was not this hypersensitivity around um like you know kind of blending in with the community like the locals and stuff and on the islands that I was on I felt like they were very open to like you know hey come try this on or hey come do your makeup like this you know check it out like that kind of stuff was like it's almost like they embrace it and they want you to intermingle and they want you to learn about their culture.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like when I came back to America this was actually it's funny because I was um overseas when Trump actually came into the office right and I and I remember sitting there thinking this is just going to make everything so much more sensitive and hypersensitivity is going to come out.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: So like and but the thing is the people in the Caribbean islands were really not that impacted by it and they were still very like just normal people.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know if I were to go back like my grandmother's you know they were in rural India you know I was born in rural India and I'm pretty sure if you and I were to take a trip to like rural Haryana in India nobody would be like you know what I mean like oh well why is she wearing like a linga or you know what I mean like anything like that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot of acceptance in other countries when it comes to that you know like compared to America like I mean that's why I love to travel it's so it's so unfortunate because I was actually supposed to go to India uh in October like for the first time I had my whole trip planned and then um when the pandemic hit I mean clearly I had to cancel it.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm hoping that at some point I get there.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you know that's well if you ever if you ever want to go I have a a place in Delhi so you are coming with me.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I'm I'm I'm I'm signed up already done like no questions asked.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: But that's why that's why I love to travel so much because there is an openness um I find that people have all over the world um which which you know I'm I'm I'm lucky to be on the receiving end of.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think just in general Caribbean people are very welcoming very open very friendly mostly we we want to have a good time and we want to enjoy ourselves and especially if you're you're there at that time of carnival I mean that is the the the most fun time to be there.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it's all it's all just about a celebration.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: So um you know that is I'm I'm grateful to be a part of you know that that culture where it is openness.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: It is this embrace of beauty and and and body positivity and complexions and cultures and so I think um you know it's I I I always feel really honored and and and and grateful for that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not surprised that that's the the reception you got because that's that's how Caribbean people are.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah Caribbean people are honestly some of my favorite people on this planet.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I kid you not I'll tell you a story because I w I was down there for um you know some medical stuff that I was doing and I remember I remember there was this little like hut kind of restaurant, you know, outdoor restaurant and he was a Mediterranean guy but he was um you know very very Caribbean you know he grew up in the culture um and he at one point like I looked very sad one day and I used to always go to his shop for like a chicken burger or something right like you know at the end of the day and he looked at me and he saw that I was very upset and he literally came to me like a father and was like listen give him hell you know what I mean like he was like real yeah like it was amazing and it made me feel like because you know I was homesick and I felt like you know I didn't have my parents and I didn't have my dad and all this but when I felt that I it was like an eye-opening experience because I was like wow we really all are connected on this like human level and in a lot of countries it's very like there's a lot more people that recognize that versus not you know what I'm saying like there's like like world population wise like there's a lot more people that are more accepting than not and um when I think of America I feel like everything needs to be explained and sometimes you just can't explain it.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know if you like something from a culture and it's like what you said if you're doing it the right way and you're not being disrespectful and you're not being vulgar or whatever with it no you know they're not gonna have a problem with it.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact they're gonna celebrate it you know so I I really I appreciated that so much.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was very very eye-opening.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah and I mean I because America is is a melting pot I mean I think it's just interesting.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean we in terms of just pop culture and in terms of trends I mean America leads a lot and um that that might be changing after after what's happened over the last four years.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that um you have all these different cultures coming together but you also have people who feel like they are you also have indigenous people who were here originally and then you have you know people who were settlers who feel like you know America is their country white settlers.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: So you know I I think it it's a clash all the time and and it it it works in some cases in other cases it doesn't it's a project that is still ongoing we you know step forward and step back all the time but I think it's the the real difference in cultures that leads people to want to kind of explain who they are.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: I also think it's just a little bit of the American way in other countries a lot of things go unsaid a lot of things are just um transmitted culturally and and don't have to be explained but you're expected to kind of know them and understand them.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I think America is a little bit more in your face a little bit bolder and louder and that's kind of what people like us for.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I I do think that I I know that that is an adjustment for people who come from other places um where it's not you know so much of a kind of beat your chest like this is who I am type of conversation all the time.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you know we we America has changed a a lot it will continue to change um and I mean we're we're a part of a really big change that's happening right now.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we'll see what happens in 2021.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: But but you're right you're right in that um things do need to be a bit more explained here but I think that's because a lot of the times we have the opportunity to to explain it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: So people want to make sure you get who they are right.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a great point.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really great point.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you're right because we have so much media and we have so many outlets where it's like we are able to put out information and we're able to like kind of you know you like you said explain things you know and and that's true.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I completely agree.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that you know I I really think fundamentally as a human being you have to real you know you have to come to this realization of am I an accepting person you know fundamentally and I think when you do that and when you really like self-reflect and you realize you are the the idea of well you're from this place and you're from this place and blah blah blah all that kind of goes away and the anxiety of like blending in kind of goes away in that you know in that mindset.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: It did for me at least and I and I think that traveling has a lot to do with that you know and and that's one thing I I know with American youth is that you know one thing I'm a huge advocate for is send your kids out there to travel.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know what I mean send them backpacking in Europe send them to the Caribbean send them wherever you can because they're gonna learn a lot more by seeing it firsthand than reading about it or seeing it on the internet or you know what I mean you know I'm saying like it's gonna be a lot more real for them that way.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah I mean traveling is one of my favorite things to do.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's so hard because you know traveling in this year isn't necessarily the safest thing.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I haven't a huge like mind fuck.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie it really is yeah it's been tough um because I was always on the go.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: I was always somewhere I mean that the main point of conversation would with me would always be okay so where are you going next?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I would always have a place I was going next whether that was you know for work and writing about it or whether that was just for my own pleasure.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been an adjustment this year being still um I do think travel is really important but I think like I I go back a lot to like intention and I think you have to travel with intention too if you want to learn about the culture because you can go to some of these places and just you know and and nightclubs are culture too partying is culture too but you know you you can go to some of these places and just go to parties and never see anything never learn history you know never know moving from one bubble to another it's like moving from like your own bubble to another bubble that's very exactly and listen I I I don't have any issue with that I think have fun.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're going to want to have the maximum amount of fun when this pandemic is over but um you know for me traveling is is education.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like I am that person who's like okay I'm going on a tour here here and here I'm gonna spend all day in the museums I'm gonna eat at eat at restaurants and like for me that is what I get satisfaction from is is traveling in that way and really learning about these cultures and these different places.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I think traveling with intention is is the most important thing.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you can mix it up.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: You can go and party but try to take a tour or try to talk to somebody who's from there and and see what's really going on.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that is how you make travel something that is informative because you know we would be remiss in the age of Instagram to think that everyone who's taking a picture in in these tourist attractions is going to really find out.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean we're we're in we're in a a definite mode of people doing it for the gram and that's not bad.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Pictures are beautiful I mean we both love beauty and so we love aesthetics but you know there there's something below the surface too that we need to get to more often that sometimes I think we miss a little bit.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I hope that when travel becomes safe for everyone again that people travel and try to get a little bit more of of learning and schooling from from jet setting and not just you know the the surface level stuff.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: So or not just like a stamp on your passport like oh exactly this place right yeah I completely completely agree with you.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know I actually want to ask you this question because um do you think that um your travel experiences and your you know just the being able to see the world do you think that's really influenced your concept of beauty in terms of like how you approach your your writing and your work and and all of that a thousand percent a thousand percent I mean I I feel like growing up before I mean I I I travel by myself a lot of the time same same yeah so so that's also I get to kind of do what I would want but I mean you know going to these different places and seeing what beauty is like I mean it's it's a it's a custom for me pretty much usually like the first day I'm in a place or the second day I'm going to the spa.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like that is like I do that almost everywhere I go.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it might be a hole in the wall um you know I I'm I'm always trying to find like the best Thai massage like everywhere.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it you know I'm happy with globalization because you know the Thai people are luckily everywhere.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: And and I have such reverence for how they approach like wellness and and self-care.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: But you know for me I want to go to the spa and I want to see what are the treatments you have here versus elsewhere and you know what beauty stores do you have what brands do you have in your country that are not available in mine.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely impacted beauty a lot a lot a lot for me.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean specifically because in this year because I'm not traveling I feel like I am trying to create some kind of experience with beauty products and talking to founders that I normally would get with just being on the road but I'm not you know able to do that.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: So um I would say travel has affected me a lot and I try to write about it as much as I can um and if not I'm just I'm there to experience it and take it in.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: So so for sure it has.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that I really love that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know I think um for for me I think especially you know now that you know I I sometimes I have a hard time realizing that now I'm an adult and I'm a woman coming into herself in her 30s and I have to think to myself you know how can I set an example for anyone who comes to me as like for a mentorship or something and I and I think to myself you know like what can I give them that makes them feel like okay you know I can do whatever I want to do in life but it's like I always get stuck because I don't think I have it figured out at all.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that in terms of like being a woman of color that's something I struggle with a lot.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like how do you feel about that in terms of like like do you feel like you know exactly who you are and you know the message you want to give or do you feel like that's always changing for you as a woman of color um I mean I'm pretty I've been a similar person for many years of my life I'm sure my my friends and my mom would tell you that um so I I've been pretty sure of of who I am for a while but that changes I mean you're always gonna evolve and and learn throughout your life so it's not a a static type of situation like I I have changed but you know I think that no matter what stage you you're at in life you have advice to give and you have a a position on things you've been through and that can help someone else who's going through it or even going through something totally different.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you know once you have a conversation there's there's always wisdom that that People have so I don't think you need to be set in who you are to be able to give people advice.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, but yes, you know, so so I don't worry about that too much, but I've I've learned to become very confident in what I do know, and there are things that I that I know really well, and and I'm the first to say I don't know when I don't know about certain things, but I also try to kind of hold my tongue if I feel like I don't know about something, I'll take my time, I'll read about it, I'll learn, and then I'll talk about it once I feel comfortable.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been doing that a lot too, because I think, especially in this environment with social media, sometimes you're kind of pushed to having opinions about everything.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay to not have an opinion about everything.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I'm like, I don't know what that is, and I'm not gonna comment.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I do try to comment when I feel like my opinion would be valuable, and I do try to comment when when I know something about the subject.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: So so that's kind of my my approach to that.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that, and I think the ability to say I don't know is one of the strongest things you can do as a person.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I think I said this before um on a previous episode, but in medical school they teach us you need to learn how to say you don't know.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to say that as much as you can because if you say no, I definitely know what I'm talking about, then you are now responsible for whatever it is that you're doing.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you, you know, you can't be like you can't have blind faith, you know what I mean, in your in your knowledge.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely agree with you.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want to shift uh focus a little bit because I want to talk a little bit more about skincare and um what you think is, you know, what's happening in that whole realm of beauty.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you see skincare right now and how it's evolving?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: Skin care is is so exciting.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think beauty in general is one of the most exciting industries to to be a part of right now because there's so much evolution and innovation and science, and it's this great blend of many different things.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: But skincare, I think, is is is really it it's cool.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's cool to kind of focus on skincare because I think that the science specifically is what is really propelling it forward because it's it's this really incredible blend of science and and being ingredient focused and formulations, and then this cultural aspect where I think a lot of different cultures, where whether it's Indian culture or Japanese culture or African culture, they're they're realizing that it's their kind of traditional ingredients and formulas that are that they want to carry forward, but then they're also bringing the science in it to make it innovative and kind of next level.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I think skincare is super exciting.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm I'm loving the way that brands are approaching things from a natural perspective and understanding that nature has so many gifts to give us and that we need to tap into that.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: And we really need to, of course, be in the lab, mix it together, you know, do your proprietary complexes, but understanding that to go within nature, there there's a lot of of untapped things there, and also doing it in a sustainable way because you don't just want to go into nature and then kind of tap those resources, but you want to do it in a way that's mindful.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I think skincare is is super exciting, and I I think it's something that I also just enjoy the most.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think as you get older, like that's where the the kind of effort is put into your routine and kind of maintaining your skin and and and watching yourself age, but you know, age with grace.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I love skincare.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's it's really cool to be working in skincare right now.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I love that you brought up the whole nature aspect because I think some of the brands that I consider to be truly, truly gender neutral are the ones that are very, very focused on their their um mission of being, you know, derived from like, for example, plants or like green beauty or like you know what I'm saying?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like there cannot be anything more neutral than nature.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I'm trying to say.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's like nature does not say male, female, you know, like it does not put a label on anything.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, like for us to go back to that, I mean, you know, it just it feels more natural, you know, like for lack of a better term, because there's so many brands that are like, you know, well, I'm we're gender neutral.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what does that really mean?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, skincare should always be gender neutral.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: It should always because it should come from um it's more of a, you know, design of ingredients.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of a mix of, you know, compounds and you know, chemicals that we're deriving from plants and extracts and all these things.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't think there's any space for um gentrification of that.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think that that even needs to be a thing.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it should be reproached in a way that it's like, well, this is just how things are.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like aloe vera is aloe vera at the end of the day.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a male version of it, and there's not a female version of it.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is what it is, you know.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I find that to be very, very interesting.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I I look at something like you know, Pharrell's skincare line, which just came out, and you know, he's a proponent of, you know, whoever you are, you can use that.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I do think it's interesting.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you you you know, you're in the medical profession, so so you you know how it works.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, I I think it's not even just the fact that products should be gender neutral.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's that, you know, there there are there are differences between women and men.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think especially women, when you think about, you know, what are you taking?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Are you taking birth control?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: Or you know, what else are you what are you eating?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: What are you what else are you putting on your face?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and men, like what are you doing?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that it I do see that there is a shift in terms of brands understanding that skincare should be for all, and no matter who you are, you would like to have your best skin.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think that it's it's not there, must be something that's not that easy about it because every brand hasn't done it yet.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um I do think that there are differences over time between between women and men, and that we have we have a lot of those times created those, we socialized those.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that brands who are doing the work of understanding the science of making products that work for everyone, I think that those are the brands that if they're not winning now, they're going to win.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I think there is definitely a science behind it in terms of what that kind of you know, palette of ingredients are and and all those different things you have to put together.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we're gonna see more of that, but I do think that it's interesting.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I sometimes like will like to use body wash that you know is either like you said, like made for all genders, or sometimes body wash that's geared towards men.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: I might like the smell.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right, yeah, but but you do find that sometimes with with facial care that you might not be able to just use a men's product, it it might break you out, or you know, it just the way it's like interacting with your hormone.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that you see brands doing the work of really doing the testing to use it on people uh of different genders, but but there it there is a difference.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_03: And and and I know that even people who are transitioning um, you know, sometimes have difficulty in that, you know, based on you know their hormone levels and how those are changing, they they might not be able to just use, you know, any old you know, skincare product.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it has to be um you know made with intention.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think we're starting to see that science hap happen now, but I think many brands have have a ways to go in kind of formulating collections that work for everybody.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know what pops to mind for me is Neil deGrasse Tyson's quote about science does not care about your opinion.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really what it comes down to is like, you know, it's science is science.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if we really stick to it, I think a lot of these like, you know, side issues might go away.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, one thing I want to ask you is, you know, as women of color, we obviously have different skin concerns, right?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like we I know for example, like hyperpigmentation is a huge problem in um melanated skin.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I deal with it.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know all of my friends that are of color deal with it, you know.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do you feel about um highlighting that?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that it's becoming more of like a, you know, like I don't know, like a like categorizing or compartmentalizing skincare into different areas?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think it's some like I don't know.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna put words in your mouth about that whole thing.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, skincare, you know, of course, there's the maintenance aspect.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: So once you get your best skin, you want to maintain it, but in order to get your best skin, you have to address concerns.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I don't think there's anything wrong with brands and certain products targeting that concern because it's it's such a a big concern, like you said, for a lot of women of color, a lot of women with you know more melanin in their skin.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's what we're looking for.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I I think that a lot of the time, and what I've I've liked to see of late, I'm just kind of even thinking about like Kiki Palmer, who kind of just, you know, posted, you know, her kind of bare face and was kind of talking about, you know, dealing with acne.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like blemishes are a part of humanity.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like your skin is probably not gonna be blemish-free, even though I will say I know some people who have very flawless skin.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: My my mom is among them, but like, you know, you will have blemishes.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna have a pimple or you might have a condition.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that is okay.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's to be embraced, like that is part of you know, being a person.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so hyperpigmentation for women of color is a thing that a lot of us deal with.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you can be very regimented and you can, you know, um do your best to kind of get rid of it.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: But for a lot of us, it it's just it's just there.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't mean we don't take care of our skin and that we're not super attentive, but it's just something that we deal with.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that it's it's great that brands are creating products that work for us, especially brands that are women of color owned or you know, or black owned, who kind of understand what the formulation needs to be.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but but I I think it's a good thing.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: If it's a concern that many people deal with, I think there should be products and collections and brands that that target that.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the reason I even asked you is because I know right now, like, you know, a while ago, um, uh because I my my background is like I started off on Instagram with as like an influencer.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just love skincare and makeup.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I was reviewing, you know, products I loved.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I know back even back then, like years ago, I realized that the research said that, you know, there is this thing called brown skin health, right?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so um now I'm seeing that emerging more and more and more in the skincare industry, where now brands are saying, well, this is a you know, um, under-eye cream for women of color, you know what I'm saying, or people of color.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I yeah, I'm not gonna lie to you, I have kind of a problem with that because it's like, why do you have to like label things?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why does it have to be like so so labeled to where when somebody goes to buy your product, they have to think twice about well, do I even fit into the category of the person that should be buying this?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like it creates a divide almost, like, oh, well, this is only for these kind of people.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I'm all for, you know, more women of color and men of color coming out with products.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong, you know, I'm all about, you know, supporting black-owned brands, brown-owned brands, you know, every kind of brand.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't really, and that's not even my my point.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: My point is more of like when you make these products, yes, you should in, you know, incorporate the idea that hyperpigmentation is different in skin that is more melanated, but to use that as a selling point, that's where I become kind of you know apprehensive.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so how do you feel about that?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about that kind of thing?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I I understand where you're coming from.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: The the the feelings around it are tricky, but but what I will say is that skincare is not the same for everyone, right?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like what we're just talking about.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, concerns are not the same for everybody.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: And and for me, I think that brands, whatever they're going to offer needs to be, needs to have depth and it needs to represent what is needed by many people.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that that's that's tough because I think you're gonna see um that a lot of the times only bigger companies and brands can even give you that much product.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I I don't really feel like there's an issue with a brand targeting me because I I do want to be represented.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know that you tested it on black people and brown people and people of my complexion, and that you got it right.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so if it works specifically for me, I'm okay with that.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to make sure that you just don't have something that works for me, that you have something that works for you know, a woman who has a much deeper and richer skin tone, and that you also have something that works for someone who, you know, is very fair.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, maybe they they have, you know, a condition, maybe they have, you know, albinism or something like that.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like I, you know, I think that brands need to figure out who they are trying to market to and understand that it, you know, black people specifically um spend so much money, billions of dollars on beauty.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, brown people spend so much money on beauty.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so we deserve to be catered to.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then and we, you know, even you know, I write a lot about hair care.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I cannot go and buy, you know, a generic hair care brand and expect it to work for my natural hair.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's not gonna happen.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're gonna have the curly collection, I'm fine with that.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: Just make sure that you're gonna have the curly, the straight, this and that.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, make sure that you are gonna make make sure that everyone is represented.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't mind being targeted because I think for a long time we weren't even spoken to.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it, you know, everyone had to pretend as if you could just use that foundation.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, I can't.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's gonna make me look ashy, it's gonna make me look like my skin tone is gray, and and I don't want that.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't mind, I don't mind the targeting if if it's authentic.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the day, beauty is a business.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_03: People want to make money and they understand that we have money to spend.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: So target me, just make sure that the formulation is right and and and make sure that you know you you got the product on point.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because if not, then there's there's no point in in wasting my time, essentially.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you said that because it makes me think that I like the missing piece at this point, and you know, like I want to say something later about the be like makeup versus skincare, but like I think with skincare, I think the missing piece is the data, the clinical data.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, a thousand percent.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: If a company publishes clinical data, like you said, saying uh we tested our product on 200 women of this skin tone, 200 women of this skin tone, and this is the results we saw.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that for me as a consumer will attract me much more to your brand than just saying, well, we are a brand that caters to you know this skin color.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's specifically for skincare.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, with beauty and makeup, I feel like it's totally different.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's definitely, I align more with um what you're talking about in terms of like foundation colors and like lipstick colors, and you know what I mean?
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is a whole different problem because that really does come down to well, can a brown and black woman find our perfect shade of nude?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: In our lipstick.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: Can we find that perfect foundation that matches our skin?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a whole different, I think, um, area.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, when when we talk about beauty, it's like skincare and beauty, I think at this point have to be separated from a scientific standpoint.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, like science, I think needs to be more backing, um, more of like a backing point for skincare rather than just makeup, because skincare should be rooted in science versus makeup, I think is more of a social, um, you know, social issue, right?
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like that that's how I'm thinking about it.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I I think that there's science to be, you know, to be spread around because I think science in general is just great.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I agree with you in that we are missing from a lot of the science.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it it's it's very interesting because you'll see during this time with with the pandemic, a lot of the doctors that they have on TV are black and brown doctors.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like, we're out there, you know.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um in terms of the hungry for advancing.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and and so we're out there, but we are missing from a lot a lot of the data.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_03: One, because I think as much as we're out there, the the numbers are not even in terms of how many of us are there versus how many white doctors.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's one.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Two, I think a lot of the studies have been very much led by white doctors or have been, you know, commissioned by brands where the leadership is white, so they don't really understand the need to make sure that black and and brown women and black and brown people are included in in their studies.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but but you're absolutely right.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I wrote I'm, you know, one of the stories that I write a lot about is texture hair education.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: And um even to find stats about natural hair, which which has become much, you know, those numbers have become much more prevalent over the last few years, which is which is great, and it's what we need.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: But the difference in me writing a story, you know, two years ago to me writing a story this year, there's so much more data.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's because we, you know, as black people and you know, people with textured hair are understanding like we need numbers to back up what we're saying because if we don't have the numbers, you think we're not telling you the truth, and this is the truth.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we are, I think, in a moment where we're creating our own stats, where we're creating our own metrics by speaking up for ourselves to make brands understand that like this is the work you need to do.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: But we're very much in that time, and it's kind of unfortunate because you can go back, you know, you can go back, of course, like you know, centuries and like millennia when it comes to some of these traditions all around the world.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I think even in America, you can go back to to hair care and you could go back to Madam CJ Walker, you know what I mean?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: And why why isn't there a through line of what the data is from like back then to now?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot, you know, in in some cases with white brands, they they have that, like they know that, but we don't, you know, and it sometimes it's it's intentional.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sometimes the erasure is very intentional in terms of like what we built.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so that's unfortunate.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm happy that we're living in a time now where we're making sure to document ourselves or making sure to archive ourselves, um, so that, you know, for two generations from now or you know, a hundred years from now.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: That they'll be able to look back and be able to see the numbers coming together.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: But you're you're very, very right in that we have been missing from a lot of the data.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that is why, you know, the the science isn't always there.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think that specifically even in this year with a lot of brands being called out, I think you're gonna see brands who are going to start to publish these studies and kind of work on these studies because they're they they were kind of called out and they didn't have anything to show for it earlier this year.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that they're gonna hopefully start to do that work.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I hope so as well.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I love that you're um, you know, dedicated to providing information about hair care because I'm not gonna lie to you, my hair stylist is always a black woman.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, seriously, like I cannot, and and it's not because I'm being discriminatory in any way, is because Indian hair is more similar, in my opinion, especially my hair.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about all Indian hair, but my hair, I just I've been to, you know what I mean, like a stylist that's you know, she's white and she's works with mostly white clients, and then the way that my hair gets cut, it just doesn't look right.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then if I go to a colored woman, she'll know exactly what to do with my hair because she's used to her own hair and she's used to working with that different texture and that different, you know, the way it lays and the way it, you know what I mean, moves around.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel more comfortable.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know, sitting in someone's chair that I can relate to.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, that like the education aspect of that whole hair care thing is extremely, extremely important.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I really commend you for, you know, going towards it and like providing that education.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, thank you.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's part of my life.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that I'm just curious about it because it's like something that I encounter personally, so I'm passionate about you know, writing about it, but it is it is true.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh a a black person, a brown person, you know, a lot of the times we have to learn all hair types.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, when it comes to a stylist who is is white, they might not have that education.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: And and what I found in my reporting is that um a lot of the times not only do they not get that education in school, but then they don't seek it out after school.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not just them.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, black and brown stylists, especially when it comes to natural hair, they too have to seek out the education because they're not always taught it in school, but they do usually seek it out based on, you know, the fact that there is a big movement when it comes to black and brown women um kind of gravitating towards their natural texture.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there there has been a lot of progress.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: There, there has definitely been a shift, but but the progress is slower than than I would like.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it it is what it is.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_03: Racism is very real.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is racism because it's not when you think about the fact that if you knew how to do all hair textures, or if you offered every shade of foundation, or if you could cater to every skincare concern that you would make the most amount of money, brands are leaving money on the table because of prejudice.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's it's that it's it is what it is, and it's it's hard.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_03: People don't like to say it because it's like, wow, that's that's ugly when you think about it, but that's what it is.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's the truth.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the truth.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I think, and and it and it's true that some brands are a niche brand, they're not trying to cater to everyone, you know, to each their own.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not trying to to to judge you uh necessarily, but I do think that um that specifically like a hair salon or you know, other brands, especially that are bigger, they they kind of have a little bit of a responsibility and the fact that they haven't stepped up to the plate, it it it is what it is.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, I think we have to be more honest about it.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I'm gonna I'm even gonna say this, and you know, the racism thing, I'm so so glad that we're saying that out loud because yeah, racism is real, and let's all stop pretending like it's not because it is.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I can honestly tell you that when I got my hair cut in the Caribbean, all I got was, oh girl, your hair is beautiful, you know what I mean?
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a black Caribbean woman cutting my hair, she had no problem.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was exposed to the idea of drying, blow-drying my hair first before she textures it for the first time when I was overseas.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, and then I came back to the America and then I had a white stylist, and she wanted to just cut it while it was wet.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to explain to her, listen, I you cannot do that with my hair because it's not going to lay the way it needs to lay.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the education component there is almost, yeah, it's lacking, but it's also, I think, a you know, the idea of do you want to be educated in that area, right?
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not just about is it available or not?
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you really want to learn?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you want to learn, the resources are out there.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just have to go learn it.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not, it's not like rocket science, you know.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I don't listen, I don't, I don't fault anyone who is not like trying to go above and beyond because uh some of the stylists I've talked to, you have to go above and beyond.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, to to get your cosmetology license is not cheap.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then to also add on, you know, learning about different hair textures, that is, you know, infinitely more money.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I I I don't fault anyone who's not taking those extra steps.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I especially after what people have have dealt with in 2020, what will happen in 2021 with you know salon, so many salons being closed and and and people in kind of the cosmetology industry being out of work.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't fault anyone.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I I do think that it needs to be on every salon owner and every stylist to figure out who they want to cater to, who they want as their clientele.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: I've found that stylists who I've talked with who know every texture, they don't have any limits.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like they can make the most amount of money based on their schedule, um, if they're able to, because they don't have to turn anyone down.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: And they and they've said that it's also kind of a boost to their self-esteem and that, you know, anyone who comes through the door and who needs to have their hair done, they can do that.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it seems like it just opens you up for a lot more opportunities.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I I certainly don't don't fault anyone.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's just, you know, it's kind of, you know, I think it's it's it's an honesty thing.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's nothing wrong with saying, you know, I don't want, I don't want to learn other hair textures, or you know, I'm not interested, or I don't see that being my path.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_03: But at least be honest about that so that especially people can not sit down in your chair and have an experience like you might have had where it's like, you know, you're scared or you're having to explain what needs to be done, like, you know, right at the end of the day, you're paying for a service.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think if more people are honest, that would be a better, a better path.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, in closing, I I just want to mention that like I think that my honestly, my one of my fundamental beliefs, Faith, is that I think that education is honestly the answer to ending racism.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I really do across the board.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think the more knowledge and education we can gain as people, it's going to lead to an open-minded, you know, community and population.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if because you know, it's not about white stylist versus black stylist versus brown stylists, it's more of how open-minded are you.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are, regardless of your skin color, like you said, you're gonna have a much more diverse clientele, you're gonna be better at your job, you're gonna be able to provide better services, you know what I mean?
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the whole education aspect, like we at some point have to take it upon ourselves and say, I need to learn my trade a little bit better.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a medical professional, I cannot sit there and say, I don't know how to treat a condition in a black person.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: That can't be an excuse for me.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, I have to know.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have to know about everything because that is my job, and that is something that's going to make me uh a better doctor or a better, you know what I mean, a better healthcare provider.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, taking that responsibility of self-education is like, I think, something that really, really needs to be propagated in every single sector of, you know, business, you know, academia, anything.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just, it just needs to become a norm, I think, especially in today's world where everything's on the internet.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you want to learn, go on the internet, you'll find out.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, read some blogs about women who have like the super curly hair and that's really hard to work with.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Read about it, you know, and and learn and and try to incorporate that.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, but anyways, I I know we have talked and I could talk to you for literally hours.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, seriously.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so amazing.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can't thank you enough for coming onto the show.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to come back as many times as you possibly can in your calendar allows because this has been such an amazing conversation.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_02: I so appreciate it.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoy this a lot.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's my pleasure.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, Faith, can you shout out your Instagram handles just so everybody out there listening can go and follow you and um you know?
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my Instagram is I am underscore Faith C.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome, awesome.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so everybody listening, please go follow Faith and uh leave some comments in the cover art for this episode for myself or for Faith, and I will pass them along to her.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and please do not forget to subscribe and rate us on Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcasts, or any of the seven platforms that we're on right now.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: We really, really appreciate your feedback.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, also, happy holidays, Faith, and everybody out there.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I hope everyone has a wonderful uh holiday season this year.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I'll be back next time with another episode.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 1:16:44
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• 1:17:37
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• 1:17:49
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