Latest / The Hidden Load: For the educators and leaders in medicine who hold everyone up. / Beyond the Smile: Airway Health & the Private Practice Load with Dr. Maria Sokolina
Transcript
- Santina Wheat: Welcome back to The Hidden Load. I am Dr. Santina or Tina Wheat. Usually we talk about The Hidden Load within the walls of a hospital or of a residency program. But today we are stepping into the world of private practice and multidisciplinary care. Our guest today is Dr. Maria Sokolina. She has a powerhouse in the world of airway health dental sleep medicine. She is the founder of Harmony Dental Arts, a diplomat of the American Academy of Dental Sleep Medicine, and an author. But more importantly for our conversation today, she is a leader who has navigated the invisible pressures of running a practice while also trying to change the way that we think about breathing and health. Maria, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the hidden load for the educators and leaders in medicine who hold everyone up. Thank you for listening to The Hidden Load. If today's conversation spoke to you, I would love for you to share it with a colleague who might need to hear it too. It's one of the simplest ways we can start shifting the culture of medicine together. We will tackle the hard topics and help you conquer your chaos and get to calm all by starting to acknowledge and remove that hidden load. Dr.Maria Sokolina: Thank you very much. It's really generous introduction and I really appreciate being here. Santina Wheat: And remember, your time spent reflecting here matters. You can earn free CME or CE credits for listening to today's episode through the Pinnacle app. You'll find that link in the show notes. am so amazed by your background having been born in Russia trained in medical school before dental school ⁓ Traveled to the Galapagos and Ethiopia to be able to study evolutionary biology Which is so amazing and I hope to get to that myself one day ⁓ But did this global medical first perspective lead you to focus on the hidden epidemic ⁓ of This podcast is a space for us to name the things that are common, but not normal. Each week, we'll look at the invisible weight you're carrying and explore practical coaching-based tools to help you find more calm, better boundaries, and a sense of purpose that doesn't require you to run on empty. I'm so glad that you've carved time out for yourself today. Let's get into the episode. If you are looking for one-on-one coaching support or want to dive deeper into the resources we discussed today, let's connect. Dr.Maria Sokolina: You know, I usually say it's a start from fear. You know, I find the fear a very kind of a moving force for me personally. Like to get to the short version of that story, I was really scared what something, what I do for people will fail. I guess my level of confidence in the beginning of my clinical career was very low. Maybe because I really like Santina Wheat: Hmm. Dr.Maria Sokolina: to see the results and then I'm gonna, I believe it's true or it's, like I have a very low trust maybe due to that turbulent history what I have. So I had that fear that it's gonna fail. And because of that, once I really was exploring the specialties or questioning the treatment plans or questioning the information I was taught in a dental school. Santina Wheat: You can find information on how to reach me in the show notes. don't forget to hit subscribe so that never miss an episode ⁓ and leave me a rating so that others can find too. and take care of yourself because you deserve to be held up too. And I'll see you next time. Dr.Maria Sokolina: So through failures, I learn what, if I just do beautiful restoration, but I don't pay attention to forces, they're gonna fail, then I put the teeth in, they might fail. Like I don't want to get into technicality of that. All of a sudden, I realize what my patients grind and apply such a huge forces on the restoration I put in or on the setup of the teeth. know, position orthodontically because they cannot sleep and breathe in a proper way. They're applying the law to actually breathe at night. So that's how I get into dental sleep medicine and it was 15 years ago. And then I realized, ⁓ my God, I have a root cause. Now I can logically build my treatment plan. I can logically do things if I'm gonna protect from that invisible forces, I can actually ⁓ I my high skyscraper or whatever I build for patients in the mouth. So it was, that was fear or maybe a desire to create something long lasting for my patients. Santina Wheat: That is absolutely amazing and I love that story. I think that so many people can relate to this feeling of feeling the fear of not doing a good enough job, of not making enough of a difference for their patients. ⁓ I definitely know that I have that fear of am I going to miss something? Am I not going to have the right treatment plan? Am I not going to do this? But what an amazing story to be able to build something positive out of that thing that often weighs so many of us down. That's so inspirational. So, tell me you proposed the idea of behind the smile, the reality of running a practice. my world, I feel like the hidden load is often some of the things that are happening the scenes, the administrative red tape. And in your world, you were a business owner in addition to being a lead clinician. What does that look like on an everyday basis for you? What do you actually feel for that load? Dr.Maria Sokolina: heard that phrase, what actually doing dentistry or practicing medicine, that's the easiest part. Everything would come with it, that's the hardest part. Or another expression, your stuff can make you or break you. So we're talking about red administrative tape, or actually whatever happened behind the scenes which is important but actual. as actual treatment because that atmosphere what you create, of course, maybe 200 years ago, maybe 100 years ago, a clinician can practice on his own, maybe have one person next to him and do the business. But in my world, the level of care what I provide, I learn in the beginning of my career, it's not possible. I'm not gonna be able to help people being. by myself or with a very limited group of people. So ⁓ now we're talking on everyday basis. I find what that's most ⁓ the most hidden load what have is a team. Team that support me, what support ⁓ my That's another ⁓ level of fear. was really scared what I'm gonna be able to do what I really believe in. I really want to practice how I want to practice. was dream and that's why I'm in that field. So I was really scared it's not gonna happen. Yes, just like your podcast, you know, I can relate. I was working in hospitals and I was working in a, we can call group So somebody else managed the administrative load. But at that time, level of my unhappiness was not in the hospital. Hospital I love, it was my residency program. you know, I really like what ⁓ responsibility was on my attending shoulders. But when I joined the group clinic and I was really, that was my responsibility, even though I didn't carry administrative load, practicing the environment, I did not feel comfortable. practicing dentistry or medicine, in my case it's both, ⁓ dental sleep medicine, I really didn't feel I'm bringing any good to people who come to me. So I have to get to that road trip what I'm having on right now and ⁓ how regular they look like. Right now, at this moment of my life, It's actually, I can say under control, but you know, that many years, and it's never 100%, but many, years, I would say first 15 years of my practice, it was constantly on the shaky ground because I was not able to create the team. I was not able to get to the point what I can share the control of. let it go. I did not let it go completely, but I do trust people at this moment, people who support my philosophy. And this is, I know that feeling and that's for doctors, either they, even in a hospital or in private practice or in a clinic, even in that environment, we're wearing a lot of hats. And we have so much responsibility. It's applied on every single area of our life ⁓ or professional life, ⁓ So ⁓ was a big I a of business books ⁓ and I learned about the system, what I to create to be able to ⁓ let it go at least a little bit or to trust the system, create. multi-level system. think that's very important for private practice. It's hard to say for people who work in the hospital, because I think they go into that system where they can, know, that ladder or hierarchy already created, and they just have to select the right people who they can trust. But for the private practice, you have to find those people, hire those people, train them. according to your principles and then let it go. So I find it challenging, but if I can ever recommend to young doctor how to act, I would start with that principle. So that's the end goal. That's what you want to create, your ⁓ car, your mechanism work without you, and that should be the goal. That's give you the joy of practice, joy of practicing. of practicing, joy of coming to work and create something with your brain or with your hands, whatever, whatever you do. So that's my. Santina Wheat: There is so much that I just want to unpack there that I absolutely love. So first, you were talking about the challenges of being in a group practice where you weren't really in control. And if I can sort of put words into your mouth, when you're in those group practices, you don't have the autonomy to be able to practice how you want to. You're following somebody else's instructions, right? And so then you decided to go out on your own, which there was fear of that because you had to do something that was different, and then you had to be able to share your vision, which meant that you had to find people that would be able to understand and support your philosophy that you were sharing with them, and then ultimately I'm going to say you were able to delegate in creating these systems because we have to figure out a way to do a model that's sustainable and that means creating the systems, being able to hand it off, training them in the right way and being able to trust those people. That is all three of those things or more than I just said are such. such important pieces of every leader's journey. Even if you're in a group practice, even if you're in academic setting, if you're going to lead in any way, at some point you have to tackle each of those items, go of the sadness of how much... the not having autonomy is there, realizing that you have to share your vision of how you want to lead, creating the systems to be able to allow it to work and not have everything all riding on you because it just can't all ride on you. ⁓ There's so much that is good that's right there. So tell me a little bit, ⁓ in addition to managing these teams that you have to have in order to make your practice run, you're thinking about your patients too. ⁓ And it's difficult for many of us to switch off at the end of the day, to stop thinking about those patients. ⁓ Can you give us an example of a patient case that maybe stayed with you where that clinician part of your brain didn't want to turn off even after you turned off the lights in your practice that day? Dr.Maria Sokolina: Or, you know, in the beginning of my career, I was not able to imagine to switch the light off. Like, I would be praying on my drive home what I'm gonna be able to fall asleep. You know, maybe that's part of why I start interested in asleep, because I had a lot of problems myself with insomnia, because I would play with the case, what I would do better, how can I improve, you know, like constantly, constantly, ⁓ I know there are some tragic cases, of course, tragic cases what you just amazed if you can change the course of the human life with your knowledge or with your experience or with. courage actually to be able to convince somebody to go into the different route like I put in my book. Actually those two stories what I put in the book, ⁓ they happened with real people. ⁓ One of my close friends fall asleep and did not wake up and he was a heavy snorer and I suspect what he has slip up near but he didn't want to listen then. you know, have a sleep study. So he fell asleep and didn't wake up. He was my patient and my friend. So that was really tragic. And of course I, you know, loop that for the last seven years. ⁓ Then we had another even more amazing story that was also my patient, but at the same time husband of my dental assistant who also had a sleep apnea. And with him, I really encouraged him to do the sleep study, but he had cardiac arrest. And it happened in the morning and luckily, ⁓ she, you we have a CPR training every two years and she was able to do the CPR and actually revive him. And I find that's amazing story. That's a happy story. Of course, you you don't feel that terrible needle in the heart. Like, you know, when you wake up at night and you feel like, mmm. and now you're definitely not gonna be able to go to sleep, but even on a smaller level, I think in our field we're dealing with people and in some way we feel guilty or we feel we can do more, ⁓ yes, that exists. But in the same time, I think with the experience, and that's actually my message to younger practitioners, ⁓ it will get better. It will get better because you'll be able like intuitively, somebody somewhere gonna let you know how to prevent situations from happening. Like if you feel, okay, in my field, I can redo something before the end of the procedure. I can do it better and I'll just say, take a deep breath and just redo it and then I'm not gonna wake up at night killing myself with a guilt. So that's one story in my case. but also with experience, you learn how to see through the situation just to prevent something really unfortunate from happening, or you become more encouraging, or maybe in the same time with the experience, you sound more confident and your words have a heavy weight, and people actually listen. So that's a combination. Experiences. Experience, it takes years to get experience, but experience give a lot of benefits. I would never believe I get to that point, but yes, experience is great. It's a luxury. Santina Wheat: One of the things that I find to be really valuable is when you can take those personal stories and turn them into advocacy. ⁓ just mentioned the story of your friend who you died from, you believe of sleep apnea. How did that help transition your ⁓ advocacy ⁓ specifically around sleep medicine? Dr.Maria Sokolina: You know, like sleep, I personally love stories. I'm crazy about the stories, but in the same way, you know, I attend a lot of courses and what I learn, what people get attached, emotionally attached to the story, not to scientific fact, not to the quality of research and amount of cases what you use to produce that result, but they get emotionally attached to the story. So in my advocacy, in particular way, you know, I have several hot topic or favorite topic to my heart, know, oral systemic health, how dentist or practitioner, dental practitioner can see many, many things in the mouth. That's one of the stories. Of course, I'm passionate about sleep. So AI, another luxury. I have that opportunity to listen to the patient story. People ask me how as a dentist I can listen to the patient story, but truth is, it's not, yes, we do the procedures, but if we do long procedures, most of the time I work, but my patient can share. And during the appointment or before and after, I can find out so much because as funny as it sounds, that part is part of the human body, but it's also attached to this specific person and to provide the treatment, I have to understand that person. So I'm so eager to learn. And because I see patterns, patterns repeat and repeat and repeat, I have that opportunity, love for stories and love for writing. So I can create my advocacy in the shape of book, in the shape of article and people read it and it's kind of like extension of They can listen to what I said, they can read in different forms, they can visualize because I do produce some social media content related to the topics what close to my heart. ⁓ And ⁓ another thing, I'm trying to uncover a lot of hidden because science is not a closed book. So I'm trying to educate people what I know. in an entertaining kind of way. Santina Wheat: Absolutely. I want to go back a little bit to you running your practice and how that feels with your team. You mentioned earlier that one of the things that you had to learn along the way was that you could not control everything as much as you would have liked to. What was the breaking point that forced you to... start realizing that you had to trust your team or the managers in your clinic and share that load. Dr.Maria Sokolina: You know, I'm gonna talk about several points because I'm sure among your listeners, you have private practice or people who think about private practice. So one thing early in my career, I had a case of... ⁓ would say mistrust. Somebody stole huge amount of money from the practice. But that time, I was so confident what I control everything. You know, like you're not in the early, early beginning, you kind of, you know, like you already know your way and you think you audit this and you audit that and you audit this and you audit that. And I was so shocked then on a Memorial Day weekend, I received the letter. of somebody admitting what she did, what she did. And she was doing that continuously through the year. And she was so, you know, I have a weakness towards people who love organization. So she was so organized and I really liked her and you know, she got a little baby and you know, I support, you know, my practice, you know, not so huge, you know, I have around. 20 people, but every person in my practice is a star, so I'm attached. And this one, she was on the frontier. And I was thinking, I spent most of my time trying to check everything, trying to control everything, and I missed it. You I was shocked. You know, of course, this money, I never saw those money again, and you know, God bless that person, I wish her best. So nothing happened with her either. So if somebody thinking what they can, find justice, don't waste your time. So that's my another advice about that. That actually, you know, it's negative example. It's negative answer to your question, but you can't control everything. So I realize, doesn't matter what I do. It cannot happen. If I want to focus on my patients, I cannot focus on administrative load. And for me personally, I love. the practical part of the practice. Some people like the business part, but even for them, that story, you can't control. But then at certain point, I was always wondering about business coaching. I thought, okay, I made a mistake. I don't have a systems what I was able to miss huge amount. I'm gonna hire a business coach. So I hired a business coach. Maybe I didn't make the right choice, I don't know. I learned a lot during that process. But... You know, she brought great ideas and maybe she brought that... idea of creating the system, what I have a managers for the department. Maybe that was her idea, or maybe it was a books, but I was reading on the same topic in the same time. So I create, I divide my practice into different departments, four departments, and I find, you in even, you know, for some practices, they don't have to be big, but you can still divide and find, you know, designated person in charge of that department, designated person in charge of that department. And when you give people responsibilities ⁓ or like you promote them into leaders, even they don't have a big team, it doesn't matter, ⁓ change them inside. That I learned, I learned what just like wearing the different hat, but now director of the. an administrative department, director of the clinical department, director of the medical department, don't know, director of hygiene department, just that change people. ⁓ And ⁓ I ⁓ start conducting the business meetings, ⁓ I start doing it ⁓ as a corporation even though we're But ⁓ was a very positive experience. It didn't happen right away, but at certain point, with repetition, people like being in charge. People feel good about themselves. And I feel good, just, I admire that. Like I see people who, you know, I... Santina Wheat: It's amazing. Dr.Maria Sokolina: I hired people in the beginning of their career, but they've been with me and they grew and now they in charge of their department and they say, I'm gonna change this in my department, I'm gonna do this in my department, maybe I'm not, you know, in the beginning I have to change myself because yes, I have my ego and it's my practice and I signed the paycheck, but it doesn't matter. If I'm gonna do that, you know, then I'm gonna. keep going through the same loop over and over again. you know, so I realize I can't control everything. have to give, ⁓ I have to give responsibility and change, know, not being so, you know, narrow minded. Give people freedom of making a mistake. That's probably the golden word. People can make a mistake and you have to say. You made a mistake ⁓ or how you're gonna correct it. Not jump into that, ⁓ yes, now I'm gonna be the hero, I know how to fix it. So that, yeah. ⁓ Santina Wheat: And I think you're you're absolutely talking about one of the, I feel like hardest parts of leadership, ⁓ but that I talk about a lot with delegation is that one of the benefits of delegation is that you're giving people the opportunity to grow. You're giving them the opportunity to stumble. You're giving them the opportunity to see what it is that they might be good at that you and they might not know that they might not be good at. And like your point about the, I'm going to change this, that ⁓ one of your employees might say, sometimes they have better ideas than we do. Like I've definitely had team members that have surprised me with the, you want these things to happen? Okay, well, let's do it this entirely different way that I would have never thought of. And they can just be creative and allow your systems to work even better when you just give them that opportunity. But it's a hard lesson to learn. Dr.Maria Sokolina: You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And I think even for our field, that's so hard because we were taught in dental school, if you make mistake, that's gonna be you. That's gonna be you. So you have it engraved somewhere inside your brain. And then you have people who... Santina Wheat: Mm-hmm. Yes. Dr.Maria Sokolina: didn't go to dental or medical school, they didn't have that training and you feel, ⁓ they might, they don't have that set. Yes, you're in charge of your patients, you have to take care about your patients, but some minor, some other things they can manage and you have to let it go, you have to trust the people around you because... ⁓ It's certain, you you can't, you cannot do it yourself. Santina Wheat: That is, those are such important points for leaders in medicine. So I do want to switch a little bit to our patients. You said to me earlier that you just can't make everyone happy, but you can still be compassionate in that care. Can you tell us a little bit about how you draw the line when a staff member or really in this case, a patient is unhappy? How do you keep your compassion without letting that dissatisfaction that they have become your hidden load. I feel like that's something that so many of us are facing, especially now, in the era, ⁓ in the time of like the Yelp review for every physician and dental practice that's out there. How do you manage that? Dr.Maria Sokolina: that there are several strategies I have. Yes, of course, it used to give me cold sweat. somebody gonna be unhappy with my work. They gonna spread the word, negative word, that's gonna ruin my reputation, my practice, ⁓ my God, I'm gonna be starving. Yes, we can catastrophize that to no extent. So I have several points what I make to myself. If somebody unhappy, first of all, that's why they call patients. I have to be patient with them. And they are my patients, they came to me for help. So this by a priori, without no questions, they are right. And I'm sorry for misunderstanding. say that right from the start. ⁓ that's one of the principles, ⁓ ⁓ taught my staff. Of course, people might call ⁓ express, and it might not be related to my work or to the work of my staff or to my practice or to my area at all. ⁓ it most likely, it's something ⁓ But they had a difficult day, difficult week, difficult life. and we are sorry for that. And we really sorry for that and we apologize for that misunderstanding. And like I always instruct my staff, you don't have to get, know, really find out what they are thinking. You know, if you hear that music in the voice, you start with that wonderful phrase. And then you will ask, you how can I? How can I help to make it better? Just start from that. You know, they might continue with that story and music and abusing and you know, all of that uncomfortable song, but then at certain point, they will express what they want. And sometimes what they want, it can be very simple. And sometimes they just want the word of apology. They just want that. They just want to hear what you understand the pain and you saw it. It doesn't matter if you didn't cause it. And it doesn't matter if you really try to help them because it can be so much deeper. And you don't, you know, I'm not in that field to find out why is that. So I start with that. I think I don't want number two. If people have a team, ⁓ I want my team not to bring every single. accident to me, if an accident not related to treatment. It can be somebody didn't say hello, somebody was not right with the payment, they have to learn how to resolve it. If it's not health issue, they have to manage that. That's very important because in the beginning I was involved in that. In my field, ⁓ it's a private office, so finance. financial questions arise. Those questions, I don't want to be involved. Not I don't to know them, I want to know about them, of course, but it should not happen in a patient being nearby at all. Like I'm away from that. I'm responsible for the health issues, for pain, for ⁓ infection, any type of troubles with health. Financial. That's the different department. So I think that's very important for doctor not involved. early in my career, when I was just in the residency program, I have that famous story. I was in the residency program and one of my attendings giving us a lecture and said, you have to lead. And I'm like, how can I lead? I cannot lead myself. I don't know where to go. I don't have a clue. and I was kind of new in United States and I was new into that profession. I didn't know how the system works at all. And I look at them, at the team, I'm totally puzzled. But then alone, I'm a compassionate person, I'm compassionate by nature and that's how I'm gonna live and that's how I want my staff to act, with compassion because people come to us for help. Santina Wheat: I love that. And I'm sure that watching you be compassionate allows your staff to see how to do that too, because I feel like that's one of those things that we need to lead by example and show others that this is an important part. This is like, yes, it's a business, but we're also there for others. We're caring for others in this business. And so we have to make sure that we're compassionate in that care. So we are getting to... Dr.Maria Sokolina: That's important. Yeah, Santina Wheat: Yeah, we're getting to the end of our time. ⁓ Is there one thing that you wish that you would have really learned earlier that you would give as advice to somebody that's considering starting a private practice or considering taking a medical director role where they might be in the setting where it might be like they're doing their own mini private practice? is there's one little tidbit that you wish you would have had before. Dr.Maria Sokolina: You know, for me personally, as I mentioned earlier, I think the biggest obstacle I had was a confidence. Like for me, confidence come with experience. So you know, if you don't have experience, you don't have confidence, but it will come. You're gonna start and you know, confidence, all right. Another one what mentioned, you know, several times, ⁓ leadership. with compassion, we're dealing with people in the medical field, either our employees or our patients. You you have to be compassionate, you have to set the rules, you have to follow those rules, ⁓ you know, every day and you have to lead by example, all of it through. ⁓ And from me personally, ⁓ we don't have business education in a dental school or medical school. Yes, some people come with the previous business experience, some people take MBA, know, my recommendation, didn't do, you know, I didn't have both, I was reading business books. I think that's very valuable on a different level. It's not necessary, you know, it's not needy, greedy but there are a lot of books. what business owner or leader can read and learn. And use ⁓ those stories and they're help to lead, they're gonna help in that journey, either private practice or medical director role. And right now, besides the books we have, Instagram, we have a social media, we have, ⁓ YouTube videos, like for example, I like Story, so I like Story brand by Donald Miller. I find that useful for me. I like the marketing part of the business, that's very important, which I didn't have a clue when I just started. So marketing, you have to educate yourself all the time, and I think it's much easier now than it was X amount of years ago when I started. You know, we have to constantly educate ourselves. And it's gonna be some areas, and that's very important, and it's really hard for me to accept what science is not a closed book, and life is full of surprises. And only change is permanent. That very hard concept for me to accept. Like, I feel sometimes, okay, I'm done, this, this, this, this, this, now it's gonna be failure proof. No, it will not. Santina Wheat: such an important point. ⁓ And I don't us to forget to mention, you mentioned books in there. ⁓ You yourself are a book and it's called Breathless. In it, you are talking about the importance of mentorship, excuse me. Can you share with me why you think having a mentor or a collaborative circle can be the antidote to isolation, especially if you're in a situation like private practice? Dr.Maria Sokolina: That's such a topic so close to my heart. For many reasons, of course, as an immigrant, I imagine, I'm very imaginative person, so I imagine when I arrive to United States, I'm gonna meet a mentor, for example, at NYU Dental School, somebody who I'm just gonna follow. I'm gonna follow, I'm gonna improve my English. I'm gonna understand how it works here in United States. No, it did not happen. I had a lot of ⁓ faculty members, but I had somehow close or not so close connection with them, but mentorship did not happen, or it was a mentorship as I imagined that. So that's very important. Then I got into residency program and that I absolutely love. I love the level of mentorship I got there, but it was not the mentorship still, but I imagined. And then I said to myself, I'm gonna find the employer and I'm gonna work for somebody. So I'm gonna learn from that person on everyday basis. know, he's gonna, or she's gonna practice next to me and I'm just gonna absorb, absorb all the best practices. That didn't happen either. Because in my, actually when I was writing my book or even before, I realized in such a diverse profession as we choose medicine or dentistry and business, there are so many people who must be your mentors. And it just, like a college or medical school, you learn from multiple people and you learn from your patients on everyday basis. So one mentor. does not exist. If somebody dreaming of getting one mentor or how it happened in academia, I know it happened that way in academia, you're limiting yourself because it has to be more because life is so diverse and challenges are so diverse. So that's number one. Don't limit yourself to one mentor constantly. Learn that subject from that person, that subject from that person. And it's important or at least I reflected in my book. if you have colleagues who kind of on a parallel track with you and you make an effort to meet those colleagues. Mirroring your people who are going in a parallel route, that's the very good mentorship because you're listening to their mistakes and they're listening to yours, together you can change. you can change the course of action, you learn from that. Or just by observation, conversation is the best. But sometimes just observation. If somebody give the opportunity for you to listen to their story, that's a lot. So isolation, that's the straight road to burnout. That's like you get on the highway and just driving. make an effort, like I put it in the book, but it's true story, but I have a colleague, I have a friend, we meet once a year for dinner, you know, in New York restaurant, we have that tradition and we follow it. Yes, I make an effort, I make a reservation, I arrange the date, I do that, she's important to me. You know, that's, and I have some other colleagues who we have a tradition to connect over the phone. and I have a podcast just like you, and I interview a lot of my friends and colleagues, and I learn from them, and I share with my audience, you know, their experience and their, you know, successes and failures, and I learn that way. That's the wonderful way. So, you know, number one, don't stay silo. I know life is very busy and people have families, but just family and work. without any other outlets, that's the road to burnout as well. So that's my recommendation to make an effort and connect with wonderful people like you. know, podcast is a great way listening to the podcast. That's a great mentorship. You know, you just put it in the ears and you have your life lesson. And you learn, you know, from Santina or from me or, you know, from many other clinicians who sincerely share their story. Santina Wheat: I love that. I love that the mentors above you, the peer mentors, the mentors that maybe you don't know that can still make an impact. And you're right. That's absolutely why I started this podcast was because I wanted others to know that many of these experiences we feel like we're going through alone, but we're not going through alone. Somebody else is doing them right next to us. We just don't know because they're not necessarily talking about it. ⁓ Maria, I have really enjoyed having you on today. I feel like I could keep talking to you forever. If my listeners would like to find you, how do they do that? Dr.Maria Sokolina: have a website, drmariasocolina.com, but I'm on the social media under my name, Dr. Maria Sokolina. I have a Facebook group, Sleep Apnea Snoring Briefing Help. I have a YouTube channel. I'm on the LinkedIn under my name and my book called Breathless where I share sleep briefing and business experience through the story, family story, medical mystery where I try to uncover modern life. challenges and how they really dentally affect our health. But then I put some other moments inside of the story like we talk about mentorship and business and building a practice and challenges. So I would be very happy if your listeners. show me the reaction on my book, Breathless. It's gonna be released in end of June. And if that book gonna help them to see the world a little bit different, I'm gonna be thrilled. So thank you for that opportunity. I really enjoy our conversation. And you point out to some aspect maybe I don't think about every day, ⁓ if people can connect with me on the social media and if they have. some further questions and if my experience can help them, I'm gonna be so happy. Santina Wheat: I'd love that. And I'll make sure to link your website and your contact information in the show notes so that my listeners can find you. ⁓ To my listeners, I'm so glad that you came today. And remember, leadership does not mean carrying the weight alone. It means building the structure and the systems that allows everyone, including you, to breathe a little easier, literally and figuratively. Thanks again for joining me. this has been another episode of The Hidden Load. And I look forward to seeing you next time.