Latest / The Morning Edition / Sunscreen wars: The Ultra Violette scandal

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Sunscreen wars: The Ultra Violette scandal · The Morning Edition

• 0:04
  S1: It's been a year since so-called Sunscreen Gate.
• 0:08
  S2: Sunscreen gate? Isn't that just so juicy? We're all just
• 0:11
  S2: loving Sunscreen Gate at the moment. The whole thing that's
• 0:14
  S2: going on with Choice and Sunscreen brands.
• 0:15
  S3: If you look at the results, ultraviolet scored the lowest.
• 0:19
  S4: I really hate to be that person, but ultraviolet have
• 0:21
  S4: since come out and said that their lean screen formula
• 0:23
  S4: certainly does not live up to the SPF claims on
• 0:25
  S4: its packaging.
• 0:26
  S2: And who is going to be held responsible at this point.
• 0:29
  S1: It was a dramatic fall from grace for a brand
• 0:31
  S1: that had taken the world by storm, by making sunscreen sexy,
• 0:36
  S1: with influencers around the globe extolling how flawlessly the products
• 0:40
  S1: wore under makeup and felt virtually undetectable on the skin.
• 0:44
  S1: I'm Samantha Zellinger Maurice, and you're listening to Morning Edition
• 0:48
  S1: from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald today. Lifestyle
• 0:52
  S1: reporter Lauren Ironmonger and business reporter Jessica Yun on the fallout.
• 0:57
  S1: A year on from the choice findings and whether the
• 1:00
  S1: safety of sunscreens in Australia has been improved. Welcome Lauren
• 1:07
  S1: and Jess to the podcast.
• 1:08
  S5: Thank you for having us.
• 1:10
  S6: Thank you so much for having us.
• 1:11
  S1: Okay, Jess, I'm going to start with you. Can you
• 1:13
  S1: just take us back to where this saga began? Because
• 1:16
  S1: in June last year, the consumer advocacy group choice published
• 1:20
  S1: an investigation into sunscreen. So what did it find broadly?
• 1:24
  S1: And then where did ultraviolet sit within its findings?
• 1:28
  S6: Yeah. So it's been more than a year now since
• 1:32
  S6: choice came out with their sunscreen investigation. And I think
• 1:36
  S6: a lot of people probably have some memory of going
• 1:39
  S6: back to that time and being like, oh, choice came
• 1:41
  S6: out with this investigation. And heaps of sunscreens like failed
• 1:45
  S6: their SPF claims, right? So it found that of 20
• 1:50
  S6: of the sunscreens that they tested, and a lot of
• 1:52
  S6: these were household names like we're talking Banana Boat, Invisible zinc, Neutrogena. Cancer. Council.
• 1:59
  S6: These were brands that totally you know, you were going
• 2:02
  S6: to just find in the supermarket and in your cupboards
• 2:05
  S6: and yeah, of 20 of them, 16 of them failed
• 2:08
  S6: the SPF claims. And the one that failed the worst
• 2:12
  S6: was ultraviolet. It was one of the sort of more premium,
• 2:17
  S6: cool hip, you know, millennial brands, very online kind of brand.
• 2:22
  S6: It was $52 for a 75 milliliter bottle, and it
• 2:27
  S6: scored an SPF of four with a claim of 50 plus.
• 2:33
  S6: So when that came out, everyone was just sort of
• 2:38
  S6: blown away.
• 2:39
  S1: And Lauren, just briefly, can you remind us just how
• 2:42
  S1: big a deal ultraviolet was at this time and in
• 2:45
  S1: the years before as a brand? Because for years it
• 2:48
  S1: seemed that you just couldn't open up social media without
• 2:50
  S1: seeing influencer after influencer just crowing about their sunscreen. You
• 2:54
  S1: know how great it was, how different from the others
• 2:57
  S1: on the market. So can you just give us a
• 2:58
  S1: bit of context?
• 2:59
  S5: Yeah. I mean, they really were sort of hailed as
• 3:02
  S5: an Aussie success story. I mean, by our masthead and
• 3:06
  S5: other publications and sort of as evidence of how global
• 3:09
  S5: they had become. One of the founders, Eva Chandler Matthews,
• 3:12
  S5: she was actually speaking at the Business of Fashion Beauty
• 3:15
  S5: Summit when this news broke. You know, she was mingling
• 3:18
  S5: with the likes of Hailey Bieber. So she was really
• 3:21
  S5: in that sort of league. And I think if you
• 3:23
  S5: look at the backgrounds of both of their founders, they
• 3:26
  S5: both came from Mecca and sort of I think that's
• 3:28
  S5: kind of key to understanding the whole throughline of the brand,
• 3:32
  S5: which was sort of giving that premium Mecca treatment to sunscreen,
• 3:36
  S5: which typically had been seen as sort of a chemist
• 3:39
  S5: sort of product. You know, it was arduous to apply.
• 3:42
  S5: It was sticky, it was gross. And they really elevated
• 3:45
  S5: it to something that people would want to wear.
• 3:48
  S1: And Ultraviolets initial response to this choice, finding Jesse was
• 3:52
  S1: really defiant. Right?
• 3:53
  S6: Yeah, that's that's absolutely right. So when we spoke to
• 3:57
  S6: the founders, because they didn't understand where that figure was
• 4:01
  S6: coming from and all the numbers that they had. So
• 4:04
  S6: all their own testing that they had done was giving
• 4:08
  S6: numbers of 60 plus. And so they basically came to
• 4:12
  S6: the conclusion quite early on that something had gone wrong
• 4:16
  S6: in the testing process. And they leaned hard into that,
• 4:21
  S6: and that's what they said. So at the time, they
• 4:22
  S6: hired a crisis comms guy to basically issue out this
• 4:25
  S6: statement to media, obviously, who were, you know, trying to
• 4:28
  S6: get a response from ultraviolet. And in this statement, you know,
• 4:31
  S6: it's pretty forceful language, right? We do not accept these
• 4:34
  S6: results as even remotely accurate. You know, if you put
• 4:38
  S6: on this lean screen testing result of SPF four is
• 4:41
  S6: scientifically impossible. Human error and the mix up of samples
• 4:44
  S6: is a highly probable scenario. And then not only that, right,
• 4:49
  S6: but they sort of kind of set up the fight
• 4:52
  S6: to be them versus choice, because the way that they
• 4:55
  S6: ended their statement was, you know, it is disappointing that
• 4:58
  S6: choice has chosen to release what we view as misleading information.
• 5:01
  S6: And then the next day, Ava, one of the founders,
• 5:04
  S6: she posted a video of herself.
• 5:07
  S7: Obviously, I've seen, um, all of the press about the
• 5:11
  S7: choice testing. Um, and I guess I just wanted to
• 5:14
  S7: give you a bit of an understanding of what's happened,
• 5:18
  S7: how this could happen, why we're disputing these claims. I think,
• 5:21
  S7: I guess my concern with this whole thing is that
• 5:24
  S7: people will now no longer trust any sunscreen. It's not
• 5:26
  S7: just about us.
• 5:27
  S6: It goes for about eight minutes. And she, you know,
• 5:29
  S6: wanted to take an approach on social media to speak
• 5:32
  S6: directly to consumers, to essentially allay not so much a
• 5:36
  S6: lay consumer fears, but to I think they were coming
• 5:39
  S6: from a perspective of, look, here's the information we have.
• 5:43
  S6: These are the numbers that we've got. Here's what we
• 5:46
  S6: think has gone wrong. But in that process, they really,
• 5:50
  S6: you know, went after choice as being you know, they're
• 5:54
  S6: not the regulator, they're not the TGA. They're not the
• 5:56
  S6: ones who are in charge or get to have the
• 5:58
  S6: final say on this kind of thing. So it did
• 6:01
  S6: become choice versus ultraviolet.
• 6:04
  S1: And so who actually tested ultraviolet sunscreen? You know, was
• 6:07
  S1: it the company's own lab? Was it an external lab?
• 6:10
  S5: Yeah. So I think there's two things that are really
• 6:12
  S5: worth pointing out here for context. And the first is that,
• 6:15
  S5: you know, as Ava sort of said in her video,
• 6:18
  S5: choice is not a regulator. However, that said, the regulator
• 6:21
  S5: in Australia, the TGA, they do not do their own
• 6:24
  S5: testing of sunscreens. They rely on brands to do that
• 6:28
  S5: and hold that information. And so I guess in the
• 6:31
  S5: absence of that choice as a consumer advocacy group over
• 6:34
  S5: the past few decades, they have kind of taken it
• 6:36
  S5: upon themselves to do this. And so that's kind of
• 6:38
  S5: the context for where this investigation came out.
• 6:41
  S1: And just to confirm, because ultraviolet does make numerous sunscreens,
• 6:45
  S1: I believe there's seven other facial sunscreens alone. I think
• 6:48
  S1: they also do ones for the body. So do their
• 6:50
  S1: other sunscreens. Have they been found to provide the SPF
• 6:53
  S1: coverage that they advertise? They do like? Is it just
• 6:56
  S1: the lean screen product that was found to not have
• 6:59
  S1: the SPF coverage that it advertised? It did.
• 7:02
  S5: Yeah. Look. So those other sunscreens were not included in
• 7:05
  S5: Choice's investigation. So look, I cannot say for sure. But
• 7:10
  S5: according to ultraviolet, after the scandal, they went and retested
• 7:14
  S5: the remaining sunscreens themselves and they did not show to
• 7:17
  S5: have any inconsistencies in their spfs.
• 7:20
  S1: And Jess, I'm just going to go to you next
• 7:21
  S1: because the two of you sat down with ultraviolet co-founders.
• 7:24
  S1: This is Ava Chandler Matthews and Becky Jefford in July.
• 7:28
  S1: So I guess, Tess, tell us, what did they say
• 7:30
  S1: about the results of Lean Screen, why they varied so
• 7:33
  S1: wildly over multiple tests? Did they admit that something was
• 7:37
  S1: wrong with this sunscreen? And then, I guess, just tell
• 7:40
  S1: us about the subsequent impact that the choice investigation has
• 7:43
  S1: had on their business.
• 7:45
  S6: Yeah. So when it comes to the lean screen product itself,
• 7:49
  S6: the first thing to note is that it was the
• 7:50
  S6: only product that was not made in-house. So that was
• 7:55
  S6: a product that they had contracted to a third party manufacturer,
• 7:59
  S6: and that was to a manufacturer called Wild Child Laboratories
• 8:03
  S6: in Perth. And I believe that that base formula was
• 8:08
  S6: responsible for a whole number of other sunscreens that was
• 8:11
  S6: later found to have failed their SPF claims as well.
• 8:16
  S5: Now, formula was claiming 50 plus, and the TGA concluded
• 8:20
  S5: that it did not have an SPF higher than 21.
• 8:23
  S6: Yeah. So essentially over the over the course of the
• 8:28
  S6: next couple of weeks and months and stuff like that,
• 8:31
  S6: there was essentially a lot of information that started coming out.
• 8:36
  S6: I think everyone heard about that initial choice investigation, but
• 8:42
  S6: what ended up happening after that, you know, once a
• 8:45
  S6: headline goes past, right? There was sort of like a
• 8:48
  S6: drip feed of information where it was, you know, the
• 8:50
  S6: ABC did a couple of investigations into Princeton Consumer Research Lab,
• 8:57
  S6: which essentially, you know, a number of whistleblowers came forward
• 9:01
  S6: and said that they had concerns about the validity of
• 9:04
  S6: the testing, that they were sort of cutting corners or.
• 9:08
  S5: Overstating the SPF levels being claimed by brands. Yeah.
• 9:11
  S6: Yeah, absolutely. And there were other experts that sort of
• 9:14
  S6: came in and looked at the SPF results that came
• 9:18
  S6: out of that lab and said, you know, there's not
• 9:20
  S6: enough variation here. You know, all the numbers are 60, 64, 60, 64.
• 9:26
  S6: And so essentially, there were a lot of concerns that
• 9:29
  S6: started coming out, not just ultraviolet and choice, but it
• 9:34
  S6: started to become an industry issue where at the manufacturer
• 9:38
  S6: level and then at the level of the lab that's
• 9:41
  S6: supposed to be certifying these SPF results. We started basically
• 9:47
  S6: getting this information coming out there. And of course, TGA
• 9:50
  S6: did their own investigations. That was ongoing. More and more
• 9:54
  S6: products got pulled off the market because of these, you know,
• 9:58
  S6: formulations that turned out to be defective or formulations that
• 10:02
  S6: were certified as meeting a certain SPF level. That didn't
• 10:06
  S6: because that certification lab, you know, maybe wasn't telling the
• 10:08
  S6: truth in terms of what Ava and Bec say about
• 10:11
  S6: the lean screen product. They aren't really keen to delve
• 10:15
  S6: into it or to sort of be on the record as,
• 10:18
  S6: as pointing fingers at anyone, but they have accepted that,
• 10:24
  S6: you know, that was their product. They put that product
• 10:26
  S6: out in the market. It ultimately didn't meet the claims
• 10:29
  S6: that they said it would meet. They've taken now a
• 10:32
  S6: different approach to the way that they test and how
• 10:34
  S6: rigorously they test have pulled that they've come out with
• 10:38
  S6: a replacement product. But other than that, yeah, they're not
• 10:41
  S6: too keen to to touch too much on it.
• 10:48
  S1: After the break.
• 10:49
  S5: I think that ultraviolet in some ways became a scapegoat
• 10:54
  S5: for the broader issues, and I guess I can just
• 10:57
  S5: hope that the TGA takes on greater regulatory action to
• 11:00
  S5: ensure that things like this don't happen in future.
• 11:11
  S1: And tell us about the broader consequences from this choice
• 11:14
  S1: investigation that so many sunscreens didn't meet, the SPF coverage
• 11:17
  S1: that they said they did, because it did lead to
• 11:21
  S1: conversations with people questioning whether sunscreen is worth wearing at all. Right.
• 11:25
  S1: Which I think many of us would agree is alarming.
• 11:28
  S1: We know that UVA and UVB rays cause enormous or
• 11:32
  S1: they can cause enormous damage to our body. Obviously, they
• 11:35
  S1: can lead to skin cancer, which, you know, for 2000
• 11:38
  S1: Australians die each year from skin cancer, according to to
• 11:41
  S1: many organisations. So yeah, tell us about the conversations that
• 11:45
  S1: perhaps this entire scandal sparked.
• 11:48
  S6: Yeah, absolutely. I think I think that's something that we really,
• 11:51
  S6: really tried to make sure we addressed properly in the
• 11:55
  S6: story was to essentially show how choices investigation in publishing
• 12:01
  S6: these results. It kind of just kickstarted this domino effect
• 12:05
  S6: where sunscreen regulation, the whole sunscreen industry and what that
• 12:10
  S6: was built upon. You know, we kind of had to
• 12:13
  S6: take a good, hard look at that and what was
• 12:16
  S6: going on, because clearly there were all these different holes
• 12:19
  S6: and we needed to understand why there were so many holes.
• 12:22
  S6: So I think people didn't understand that, you know, sunscreen
• 12:25
  S6: testing itself as a sort of scientific method. It's like,
• 12:31
  S6: and you know, oh God, I hope I'm not killed
• 12:33
  S6: in the comments for saying this, but like, put very
• 12:35
  S6: crudely and simply, it's kind of like how long it
• 12:37
  S6: takes for your skin to burn, isn't it? Yeah.
• 12:39
  S5: It's performed on a minimum of ten human subjects. And
• 12:43
  S5: essentially sunscreen is applied to the human subjects. And then
• 12:47
  S5: a human observer notes how long each subject's skin takes
• 12:51
  S5: to redden. And so, of course, you can imagine that
• 12:54
  S5: in itself is quite a subjective process. It's quite a
• 12:56
  S5: small sample size. And I think for many people, ourselves included,
• 13:00
  S5: we didn't realize, I guess, how variable it was. I
• 13:03
  S5: think most people assumed that it's sort of this watertight
• 13:05
  S5: testing process when really there's a lot of room for
• 13:08
  S5: error in it, essentially.
• 13:09
  S6: Yeah, yeah. So I think the way that it all
• 13:12
  S6: evolved into essentially there was a lot of sort of
• 13:16
  S6: damage in sunscreen in general that started coming through and
• 13:21
  S6: people sort of seeing a headline or seeing, oh, these,
• 13:24
  S6: these sunscreens failed their SPF claims, you know, maybe sunscreens
• 13:29
  S6: not like sunscreen, even real. Should I even bother? Like
• 13:32
  S6: what product should I use? What's safe to use and
• 13:34
  S6: what's not safe to use. So I think that was
• 13:37
  S6: the really damaging consequence of that investigation.
• 13:41
  S1: And so tell us what next. Lauren, I'm going to
• 13:43
  S1: go to you for this one, because the Tga's investigation
• 13:46
  S1: into the other 15 sunscreens that failed, the choice testing
• 13:49
  S1: is yet to wrap. And in March, the TGA opened
• 13:52
  S1: up consultation for how sunscreen is regulated in Australia. So
• 13:56
  S1: this sounds pretty big. When will we find the results
• 13:59
  S1: of that? And could that potentially upend what sunscreens we
• 14:02
  S1: are permitted to use here?
• 14:04
  S5: So the TGA has refused to give any specific date
• 14:08
  S5: for when either the results of its investigation into Choice's
• 14:11
  S5: testing or its consultation will be published, though it has
• 14:15
  S5: said that this will come about before the end of
• 14:17
  S5: the year. And I think the timing of those two
• 14:19
  S5: things is really interesting. You know, some industry insiders have
• 14:22
  S5: been critical of the fact that the TGA opened up consultation,
• 14:26
  S5: you know, to address some of these issues that were
• 14:28
  S5: raised by Choice's testing without knowing what these exact issues
• 14:32
  S5: are or having those sort of Problems inform the process
• 14:36
  S5: in terms of whether it could upend what sunscreens were
• 14:39
  S5: permitted to use. Certainly, some of the regulatory changes proposed,
• 14:43
  S5: which include the TJ itself validating test results, changes to
• 14:47
  S5: labeling itself, stricter parameters around sort of what brands need
• 14:51
  S5: to do to enter the market. You know, I think
• 14:54
  S5: they'll certainly make it harder for certain sunscreens to make
• 14:57
  S5: it to consumers. It also might mean certain brands continue
• 15:01
  S5: to be recalled. I mean, if you look at the
• 15:03
  S5: Tga's website, the recalls continue every month from certain brands.
• 15:07
  S5: And so it's an ongoing thing, I'll say.
• 15:10
  S1: And so did this choice investigations reveal particular weaknesses, perhaps,
• 15:15
  S1: or limitations of our TGA? Because for a long time
• 15:18
  S1: we've had a reputation of having the best sunscreens in
• 15:21
  S1: the world. You know, that, you know, our TGA was
• 15:23
  S1: so stringent. I know that there's so many sunscreens I've
• 15:26
  S1: seen overseas that I look to buy here and from America,
• 15:29
  S1: from Europe, from Asia. And they're not allowed in here,
• 15:32
  S1: I presume, because they're not seen to meet our strict requirements.
• 15:36
  S1: So has this exposed particular vulnerabilities or weaknesses within the TGA.
• 15:41
  S6: So I just thought I would jump in and say
• 15:43
  S6: that one of the things that I found the most
• 15:46
  S6: interesting in working on the story with Lauren and, you know,
• 15:50
  S6: coming together and talking about our findings and, you know,
• 15:52
  S6: our conversations and what came out of that was that
• 15:55
  S6: you said that there was an industry insider who essentially
• 15:59
  S6: more than one actually, it sounded like there were a
• 16:01
  S6: lot of people in the industry who had been pushing
• 16:04
  S6: for regulatory change and for the TGA to, to basically
• 16:09
  S6: move and act in the way that sunscreen is regulated.
• 16:14
  S6: And I think the way that we were doing it
• 16:16
  S6: was falling behind the times or just just sort of
• 16:18
  S6: not up to standard. And I thought that it was
• 16:21
  S6: really fascinating that, you know, essentially like, was it the
• 16:25
  S6: case that Choice's investigation forced Tga's hand and it could
• 16:29
  S6: no longer ignore some of these issues that some people
• 16:32
  S6: in the industry were trying to to push for.
• 16:35
  S5: I think we can do more than just speculate on that.
• 16:37
  S5: I mean, choice, if you look at what it said,
• 16:39
  S5: it has said that, you know, the reason for this investigation,
• 16:43
  S5: in part at least, was to push the TGA to
• 16:46
  S5: take on a greater role in regulation. And so I
• 16:48
  S5: think one of the biggest changes is that the current
• 16:51
  S5: process is that brands the onus for testing falls on them,
• 16:55
  S5: and when they apply to be approved by the TGA,
• 16:58
  S5: they don't even need to submit those test results to
• 17:01
  S5: the TGA. The TGA just expects them to hold those results.
• 17:05
  S5: And then should any concerns be raised, they will then
• 17:07
  S5: take a look at them. But a lot of trust
• 17:09
  S5: is put in the brands essentially. And so one proposal
• 17:13
  S5: is that the TGA conducts validation of test results in-house
• 17:16
  S5: with a new method that's called in vitro. So that
• 17:19
  S5: is a lab based non-human method. Some of the other
• 17:23
  S5: suggestions are around labelling, as I mentioned. So rather than
• 17:27
  S5: displaying SBF as a specific number, like a 50. It
• 17:31
  S5: instead demonstrates the variability in SPF testing by giving a range, say,
• 17:35
  S5: from 40 to 50. And I think broadly what the
• 17:39
  S5: hope is that the TGA takes more of a proactive role,
• 17:41
  S5: rather than just reacting to certain issues that are raised,
• 17:45
  S5: as we've seen with this choice scandal. And I also
• 17:47
  S5: think it's important to say that, you know, this isn't
• 17:49
  S5: a unique situation. I guess part of this is stemming
• 17:52
  S5: from the limitations of sunscreen testing itself, the variability of
• 17:56
  S5: sunscreen formulas. We've seen very similar scandals occur in countries
• 18:00
  S5: like South Korea, United States, also in Australia. The last
• 18:04
  S5: time choice did its investigation a decade ago. And so
• 18:07
  S5: I think it's bigger than the TGA. It's bigger than
• 18:09
  S5: just Australia.
• 18:10
  S1: And just to wrap up, you know, where to now
• 18:14
  S1: for all of us consumers, you know we have one
• 18:16
  S1: of the highest rates of skin cancer in the world.
• 18:18
  S1: According to Cancer Council New South Wales, about two out
• 18:21
  S1: of three Australians will be diagnosed with some form of
• 18:23
  S1: skin cancer during their lifetime. I mean that is just Massive.
• 18:27
  S1: It's so central to our health. So can we trust
• 18:29
  S1: the SPF rating on the bottles that we're currently finding
• 18:32
  S1: in the shops?
• 18:34
  S5: I mean, ultimately, yes, I think decades worth of research,
• 18:37
  S5: particularly a landmark study from the 1990s that showed that
• 18:41
  S5: wearing an SPF of 15 daily is proven to prevent melanoma.
• 18:45
  S5: You know, I think despite the variations, despite these scandals,
• 18:49
  S5: sunscreen is an important part of sun protection. But it's
• 18:53
  S5: also not the only one. You know, I think Australians
• 18:55
  S5: should be wearing sunscreen as well as other forms of
• 18:58
  S5: sun protection. There have also been numerous studies from the
• 19:01
  S5: Cancer Council that show that most people aren't adequately applying
• 19:04
  S5: enough sunscreen, and that's where a lot of sort of
• 19:06
  S5: the error comes from. And the other thing to note
• 19:08
  S5: is that, you know, the association between SPF number and
• 19:12
  S5: the actual protection, it's not linear. So it's kind of
• 19:14
  S5: a case of diminishing returns the higher you go with SPF.
• 19:18
  S5: So for example, SPF 30 filters around 96% of UVB radiation,
• 19:23
  S5: while a sunscreen of SPF 50 filters around 98%. So
• 19:27
  S5: even if I guess there is variability in the SPF rating,
• 19:32
  S5: and perhaps it's not exactly what is being advertised, you
• 19:35
  S5: are still getting a fairly high level of protection.
• 19:43
  S1: Wow. What? We're so lucky. You've delved into this. We
• 19:45
  S1: all need sunscreen. So thank you so much, Lauren and
• 19:48
  S1: Jess for your time.
• 19:49
  S5: Thank you for having us.
• 19:50
  S6: Thanks so much for having us.
• 20:04
  S1: Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer
• 20:08
  S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa
• 20:12
  S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow
• 20:15
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• 20:18
  S1: Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.