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What was Operation Plowshare? · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Rowland and uh, this is stuff you should know the podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It's the bomb. It is not the bomb du bomb
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: even that's right. So it was, but it was okay,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: it worked for this one. Have you heard? Go ahead?
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you know, it didn't work for
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: this one. Was this the intro long intro which was
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a nice story but has nothing so I would like
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: to cover that at some point. Yeah, it's a true story.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Let's leave it a secret. Yeah, everybody. Sorry. So, um,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: had you heard of Operation Plowshare before? So, guys, there's
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: this really awesome Slate article um about Operations Plowshare. It's
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: a it's actually, um an excerpt from a book. I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: can't remember what the book is called, but um, it
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: was on Slate. It's worth checking out. But just look
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: up operation plosh here and Slate. This guy goes into
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: it's actually called What Could Go Wrong? It's by Ed
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Regious bam um that it's a guy who wrote a
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: book on Operation plows Share. And they excerpted on slate. Oh,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say. He was like,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: you know some my important like Brian Gumble. You know,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I was bamming like my own like so quick I
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: got the answer that I was looking for. I was
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: able to stall without coming off as stalling while I
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: found the answer. I was just so um, I've heard
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: about this when when I read that article, but I
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: hadn't heard about it before. But Operation Plosh there is
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: basically this idea that we could use all of these
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: surplus huge atomic bombs that we're laying around for civil
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: engineering projects, basically that we had to move earth. Yeah,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that we had at our disposal developed in World War Two,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: this incredible explosive capacity to yeah, like, why not use
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: it to move earth? We we could use a canal,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: let's make one. Yeah, Why bring a hundred bulldozers in
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: for months and months and man hours when we can
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: just drop a bomb and have a big hole right exactly. Weirdly,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: it makes sense. It totally makes sense. Here's the problem
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: with it, though, It's insane because to to use this
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: successfully you have to literally ignore radioactive fallout from nuclear blasts.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: There's just no way around it. Yeah, but this was
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: a time where they were they were blasting bombs up
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: in the way of high in the sky. They were
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: blasting it well as you'll see underground. Well, these cats
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: knew what was going on. It was the public that
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't hip to it yet. Well, sure, you know, but
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I mean there was a little regard I think, yes,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I mean they dropped him on people. Yeah, that's that's
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: a little regard. They had pretty little regards. That's Japan. Yeah,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: so that that that's that's a really great point that
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: you bring up UM. After Japan, this idea of using
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: UM nuclear bombs for peaceful civil engineering projects. UM led
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: to the title of this operation. The name of this
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: operation operation Plowshare, based on that. I think it's an
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: old Testament thing about beating your swords into plowshares, so
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that you're you're using things not for war, you're using
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: technology not for war and to harm other people, but
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: to further humanity through technology. Yeah. They lifted the name
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: straight from the Book of Isaiah in the Bible. So
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: umle and supposedly the legend goes that there's a physicist
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: named Isadore Isaac Robbie UM and he said, so you
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: want to beat your old atomic bombs in the plow shares.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Huh when they went Robbie, you did it again. Uh
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: So should we talk a little bit about what led
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: up to this idea? Um, it's something called the Uh. Well,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: have you heard of the Suez Canal once or twice?
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of the sue s crisis? Uh No,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I hadn't, actually had you. I had heard of it,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know much about any of this stuff.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Uh So the Suez Crisis is what preceded this idea. Uh.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And it goes a little something like this. N UM.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: The American government in the British government were starting to
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: get UM. Well, for a couple of years, they had
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: been a little bit annoyed with Egypt. UM, specifically their president,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Colonel Gamal A del Nassar or NASA. And UM, I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: think it's we'll go with NASA. And he had been
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: cozing up to the Soviet Union, UM, kind of getting
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: weapons funneled through checklistle and they were they were arming
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: his his Egyptian army, and it was, you know, we're
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: talking about the Cold War. So people were getting a
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: little annoyed by it. They were because Egypt had been
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: formerly First World because it was not only allied with
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the British, it was under British imperial rule until the
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: early fifties. And um a military coup basically threw off
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: the British shackles, but not immediately and not necessarily in
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the most bloody manner. The British ended up hammering out
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: a timeline where they left um Egypt, right, yeah, but
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the Brits were, I mean for a couple of years.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: At this point in nineteen fifty six, Egypt was still
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: trying to get Britain to in their military presence around
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the canal, right and then uh, and at the beginning
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of July n six to the last British troops left
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the Suez Canal. And on July six, Nasser said, Oh,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: we're nationalizing the Suez Canal. See you later, everybody, it's ours. Yeah,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And that was a little bit in retaliation for or
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: um the U S and England and Britain pulling out
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: of our promise to help them finance their Aswan damn project.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So it's sort of like there's a lot of back
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and forth sniping like oh, yeah, you're not gonna finance this, Yeah, well,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna nationalize the canal now that you guys aren't
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: here anymore, and I'm friends with the Soviets now and
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: they're giving us weapons. So that was a big deal.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: And not only was it a big deal because there's
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of geo political maneuvering going on, it was
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a big deal to Britain because the British Empire was
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: very much in decline. UM. It had just been bombed
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: to holy heck, even though it had come out on
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the successful side during World War Two. And because of
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: World War Two, America kind of came out as like
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: the new big kid on the block, that the kind
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: of tough bully in charge basically, and this was happening.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: America was ascending at the same time, Great Britain was
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: declining and the British ego was a little um touchy
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: at the time. So it assaulted the British empires ego
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: for the one. But it also had a more practical problem,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and that was that damn was important. Yeah, the not
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: the damn, the canal. Yeah, the canal was. It obviously
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: controlled a lot of trade in the Middle East, uh,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: specifically the oil supply UM, and it wasn't just Britain,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: it was France as well. Uh. They actually ran the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Suez Canal Company. Even though Brits, the Brits were the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: large the British government specifically was a big stakeholder in
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: that company until it was nationalized. It was run by
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: a French company. And they were also exposed. You know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: basically Britain and France were both kind of exposed, like,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you know, Egypt stood up to them and they were like,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, They were like, Egypt shouldn't be standing
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: up to us. You know, we're Britain, Great Britain exactly.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: So there was egg on the face of I guess
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: omelets or wait, crepes, crepes on the face of France, yes,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and eggs on the face of Britain, right because eight eggs. Yeah,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: but what's like toast and pork and beans, which is weird.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: So um, the British and the French have egg all
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: over their face and they decide that they're going to
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: do something about this. Now they don't technically invade Egypt themselves,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: right they do is they go to Israel and they say,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: you guys should probably invade Egypt, don't you think, Yeah,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: like you guys have been battling Egypt already. Yeah, border,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: what's one more invasion? Yeah, so they got Israel to
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: invade basically is a means of setting themselves up, the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: French and the British of sending troops into act as peacekeepers. Man. Yeah,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: it sounded like all three of them. I don't think
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: they like snowed Israel. I think they were all three
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: on in this plan. Yeah, that's the impression I have to.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So basically they said, you guys attack on October fifty six.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: We're gonna call for a ceasefire, but we'll be in
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: there a couple of days later, don't you worry. Right,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: And that's actually a very post imperial maneuver. Had it
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: been imperial, they would have just been like, uh, these
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: guys are brown and are rising up, so we're going
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to invade. That's totally fine, isn't it. Rest of the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: West and the rest of the West would have been
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: like sure, sure. But this was post imperial. They had
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: to do some maneuvering. They sent Israel in, they came
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: in as peacekeepers afterwards. And remember American now as the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: big kid on the block. And there's such a thing
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: as a UN in America went to the u N
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and went, what is that. They can't do that and said,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: we condemned this. They basically acted without telling the US,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: which really rubbed uh, the American government the wrong way.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: So they and and by this time, well it was
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: initially successful. They took control of the Suez Canal, the Israeli, French,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: British thing the force did. So it worked. But then
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the Soviets got involved and they said, you know what,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: kru Chef said, I'm gonna start reigning down nuclear bombs
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: on your head. Uh, because this is a big issue.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: So the US said, I don't like any of this.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna threaten sanctions against all the countries involved. All
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: of your time out go in the corner. That's right.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: And when kreus Chef said I'm gonna rain bombs down
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: on you guys around the canal, it worked, Yes, it did. Um.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: It actually ended the Tous crisis right like really quickly,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: like at the end of October is when the invasion
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: took place, and in December is when France and Britain withdrew,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: so it was like six weeks. Yeah, that's pretty quick.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: And then in March Israel withdrew and it was all
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: over in. The Soviets were able to puff their chest out,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and you know, say, you know a nuclear threat worked,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and you guys know how well nuclear bombs work because
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you did it. And the British went back and drown
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: their sorrows in a pine and bitter and the French
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: went back and uh, drink wine. Sure I was gonna
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: say great Goose vodka, wouldn't that be the Soviets? No,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: because Great Goose is made in France. I just hear
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: vodka in a minute, I know that's what that's a
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people in France has the same reaction. So um, chuck,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: somebody said, I think you said. Cruise chef said, I'm
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: gonna rain bombs down on your nuclear bombs down on
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: this canal, on all of you, and um, that must
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: have struck an American physicist because at some point somebody said,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: you know what, ranting bombs down with canals, it's not
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: a bad idea. It might make a larger canal. Exactly. So,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: in a very strange way, the Suis crisis actually helped
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: lead to Operation Plowshare, And we'll go into that right
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: after this. How about that all right, So the SUS
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: crisis was still going on in November nine six, and
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: it's a brief window that it was still uh active.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: And a dude named Herbert Yorke. He was the director
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: of the Lawrence Radiation Laboratory in Livermore, and he was
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: a new nuclear scientist, and he said, you know what,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: uh what Josh Clark said before the break was right right.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: He always follows me around. He says, maybe we can
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: use nuclear weapons to move a lot of earth. And
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: they got the name, as we said earlier, from the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Book of Isaiah, took it to the Atomic Energy Commission
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and they said, this is a great idea. Let's right. Yeah,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: they had a meeting and just brought people together and said, hey,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: all of you guys, um, let's uh, let's figure out
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: a better way to use these things. There's a lot
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: of projects we want to do, so let's let's pretend
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: like the pies in the sky and we'll all shoot
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: for it. And that the old say. Um. So they
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: all got together and um started thinking, putting their heads together,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and again the US and um, the Soviets and Great
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Britain and then France as well. I believe are all
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: just testing, testing nukes all over the place all the time.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: But they're testing nukes throughout this era, throughout the fifties
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and sixties and uh seventies too, I guess, um to
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: basically figure out how to make a better nuclear weapon.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: What Operation plash here was, it was different. It was
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: using these nuclear detonations to study things that could be
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: used for like industrial applications. And one of the first
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: tests like this was called the Reneer Shot, which was
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: actually a part of a larger operation called plumb Bob,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: which is pretty great. All the names when you read
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: them out are pretty funny. And the Reneer Shot, which
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: is the one nuclear test in a larger program, um
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: was the first, um, the first fully contained underground nuclear
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: test that means that none of the nuclear fallout escaped
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: into the atmosphere. And it was a pretty big deal
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: because it showed that you could do this, and they
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: also were looking at whether it was basically a proof
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: that you could use nuclear bombs for underground engineering projects. Yeah,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and it uh. It went so well, in fact, that
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the a e C, the Atomic Energy Commission, which approved
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the project to begin with, said you know what, We're
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: not even gonna hide this one we can actually talk
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: about it and press like we're proud of this. Basically
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: they did, um, and so actually nar was again it
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: was part of Operation Plumb Bob. It wasn't part of Plaushure,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: but it was basically a proof of concept that this
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: could happen, UM, and that you could just kind of
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: study these explosions for things like um, you know, uh,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: industrial uses. Yeah, it was their sizzle reel, right exactly. So, UM.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: The problem was that the nuclear weapons you would be
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: using for a civil engineering project were really basically the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: same thing as the nuclear weapons that you would be
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: using as weapons that are extraordinarily highly classified and just
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: couldn't be given to see civilian companies for testing in use.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: So the government, that Atomic Energy Commission and UM, the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Lawrence Livermore Laboratories and all of those guys, UM, they
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: had to carry out the tests themselves to make sure
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: that they they basically kept a lid on it before
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: handing the technology over to the civilian sector. And they did.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And that was where plowshare officially came from. And it
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: started at a really bad time. Actually yeah, I mean
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: they weren't along. I think it started in the summer
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: fifty seven. Uh. In in March nineteen Khruschev said, you
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: know what, uh yet no more testing of nukes? Yeah
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: for US, which put pressure on the US. But eisen
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Or didn't. He wanted to cease testing too, but he
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: didn't feel like he could, you know, be the first
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: one to do that, because you know, the rest of
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the people in United States would think he's a big
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: what was? And then interesting though that Kruscheff and Eisenhower
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: both wanted to stop nuclear testing and totally neither one
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: of them had the support at home for it. Yeah,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: So it took cruise chef to start it. So then
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Eisenhower said, well, now we can stop. And there was
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a moratorium on nuclear testing for a while. Yeah. Um,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: But the nuclear physicists who were involved in Operation Plowshare
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: where like this didn't gonna last very long. The Cold
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: War is just too too cold. And as a matter
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: of fact, a series of events led to the end
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of that moratorium within I think two years or was
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it nineteen fifty eight that the moratorium started? Uh, yeah,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: March nineteen fifty eight, so then I think it might
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: have been three years. Yeah, three years later. Um, the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: US and the Soviets started squabbling about West Berlin in
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall, which was one of my all time
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: favorite episodes. I always forget about when people ask, like,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: what's one of your favorite episodes, That's definitely one of them. Fascinating,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: it was a good one. Um. And then, uh, they
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: also started squabbling about the shooting down of a YouTube
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: spy plane in nineteen sixty Yeah. That really like puffed
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: up everyone's chest obviously. Um. And so in September nineteen
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: sixty one they said, I think it was kru Chef
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: again was the first one to say. Remember when I
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: said yet, now I'm saying whatever the Soviet word for yes,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: is it? So let's start testing again? And so then
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the US of course said, well we'll start testing again
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: an Operation Plowshare. They had gone into serious pre production because,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: like you said, they knew it wasn't gonna last, so
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: they just started planning all the things they would do
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: once they got these bombs back. Yeah, they had some
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: downtime and they wanted to be able to be shovel
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: ready when the moratorium was lifted on nuclear By shovel
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: you mean adam bomb, right exactly? So um. Edward Teller
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: had gotten his other his people together and said start
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: thinking about this stuff. And some of the ideas that
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: had come up with were they were gonna blow a
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: channel through the kapinga marangei reef in the Marshall Islands.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I think I actually said that correctly, copinga MARANGUEI yeah,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: thanks man, support that. So they were going to use
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon to blow up a live coral reef
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: off the Marshall Islands. I can't imagine how devastated that
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: area is just from the stuff they did do there.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Because where we did so much of our Pacific nuclear testing.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine what has anyone ever done A lot
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of studying on Nevada Nevada excuse me, not Nevada, No,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: it's Nevada, but Nevada. Like I think of these plowshar
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: tests took place in Nevada. Yes, and there's gotta be
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: like that has been rained down with nukes underground all
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: over the place as testing ground, not just Nevada. But
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I think they've we're definitely, like you know, took the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: line share of the abuse, for sure. I curious. I'm
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: sure they've done tests and I'm sure they're just like
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: when the results come in. Maybe that's why to pronounce
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: their own state's name for anybody who doesn't know what
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: we're talking about. Any time we say Nevada, we get
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: eighteen emails at least from people who live in Nevada
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: telling us kind of firmly that we're saying it wrong
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and please say it right. From now on, they say
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: it's Nevada, and my response is always the same. I
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: was like, we know, but you should know that only
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: people from Nevada say it that way. Everyone else has Nevada.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: And now we'll get emails from six more people say
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I don't even live there, and I say it right.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: We poked fun. We should do a show in Vegas
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: one day. Sure, No, we should have our own theater
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: in Vegas one day. Yeah, we should. We should have
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: like um those like, yeah, that's what I was looking for.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Britney Spears, Yeah we can get Uh. Who is that
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: guy that sings like all the impressions Rich Little No,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the singer Danny something, Danny Kay, I can't remember his name.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Who are you talking about? He's a dude. He's got
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: a big act in Vegas where he just you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: he's like now, I'm Frank Sinatra, No Bruce Springsteen, no
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Billy Jewel. Well, those are terrible impressions. Well, I'm not
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the great Danny Danny Gans. That sounds familiar. I thought
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you were so good at impressions that you were doing
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: an impression of Danny Gans is bad impressions. No, I
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: think he's supposed to be pretty good. Yeah, I think
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: that name's right. You don't get your own theater in
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Vegas unless you're not Buddy Way. You gotta be Danny
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: for Britney Spears. Yeah, or David Copperfield. Oh yeah, got me.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: The jet disappear and the statue of Liberty, let's not forget,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: just gone. No tricker either, no camera tricks. He literally
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: made the statue of Lipperty disappear. I just said, Lipperty.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Where were we? I have no idea Operation Plowshare. Oh
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: we were talking, I note Chuke. We were talking about
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: all the insane projects that Edward Teller father the h bomb,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and his crew um came up with during the downtime,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: during the moratorium. So there's blowing a channel in the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: kapingamar Ange reef off the Marshall Islands. How about a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: new harbor in Alaska. Yeah, we'll talk about that in
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: a minute. Yeah, that was a big one one, making
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: canals and not just canal sea level canals, because um,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: we did an episode on the Panama Canal and one
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: of the issues I guess you could call it with
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the Panama Canal is that there are a series of
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: locks as part of the canal that basically are steps
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: for ships to go up and down a mountain range
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: sea level canals or where you blow a flat line
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: all the way through anything that gets in the way
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: from sea to shining sea, so that the entire now
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is at sea level, so as ship can just go
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah bam. So that's what they're looking at. Sea level
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: canal excavation using nuclear bomb. Yeah, they were gonna call
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that the It was either that one or the widening
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: of the Panama Canal, the Panatomic Canal. It's like, come on,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: that's way too cute. Even everybody was blitzed on martinis
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: at this time. That's true. All right, Well, let's take
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: a quick break and then we will pick back up
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: with the restarting of Operation plow Share in December. All right, Josh,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: is December. It's promised, liar, if you are in Carl's Bad,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: New Mexico. You might want to take a weekend away
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to Nevada and go work on a healthy glow, maybe
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: because if you live near there. They had something called
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Operation Gnome, code named Gnome, and that was a three
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: kiloton blast and this one it seemed like hold on, tuck.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that huge coffee table book that was
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: an illustrated guide to the life of Gnomes? It was
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: big in like the late seventies, early eighties. Really it
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: was wonderful. That's all I have to say. Okay, I
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I thought for sure you're gonna be like, yes, no,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I gotta Hopefully my dad still has it at his house.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I really hope he does, because I want to get
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: my hands on it. What's the deal Gnomes? Why are
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: people so into that? They're just cute and they're helpful
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: and they hang out around psychedelic mushrooms as like you know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: that's where they hang out under shade and stuff, right, Um,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So they set off the bomb and Operation Nome, and uh,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: they had a few objectives here. They wanted to see
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: how much heat it produced, what kind you know, is
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: it going to cause an earthquake? Let's measure the seismic activity.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: They wanted to see if they could generate steam to
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: using turbines for electricity and basically setting off electric or
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: um nuclear bomb. Yeah, but they kind of what they
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: kind of really wanted to do was see how big
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of a whole they could create kind of and again, um,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: this one was also underground, and I think they blew
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it in. Uh, Carl's bad in a salt mine, right,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and they basically just loosened created a huge cavity underground
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: in a salt mine and loosened up a bunch of salt.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: They said, wow, that that really worked. And actually none
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: was the first actual plowshare test. Everything else had been
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: kind of laying the groundwork for it before then, so
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that no one went really well, and everybody's like, this
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: is great, let's do it again. So July, we just
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: celebrated the fourth of July, so let's celebrate again by
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: setting off a hundred and four kill its unbombed and
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the Nevada Desert. Uh, and man, this thing was huge,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a four hundred and thirty seven yard in diameter hole
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that was a hundred and nine yards deep. Right, it's
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: actually the largest man made crater in America. Huge, it's
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: a it's it's on the Register of National Historic Places
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: because obviously it's still there. It's like Tahoe Now. Actually,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: that's funny. Those Soviets developed their own similar program a
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: few years after the Americans, called the Nuclear Explosions for
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the National Economy Program, and they blew up. They created
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: a crater lake in Kazakhstan with one of their explosions.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So it has been done, but with this one. It's
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: a dry crater, the one from the Sedan test. Right, Yeah,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I cannot hear the word Kazakhstan without thinking of Borat. Yeah,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: that's where Barret's from. And I watched the other night.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I came home after a late night out, That's all
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I'll say, and Borat was on and I hadn't seen
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it in a long time, and I found myself watching
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it and laughing as if it was the first time
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I had seen it. Will hold up forever, so funny,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I love that character. So Um the Sedan
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: test they used so again, a hundred and four kiloton
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: kiloton bomb Kila toon, Yeah, what's wrong with me anyway? Um?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: The one from the Nome blasts three kiloton so It
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: was huge, and you were talking about Nevada getting like
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: fall out and all that chuck. This this explosion was
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: so huge and it released so much radioactivity into the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: atmosphere that apparently they have done some calculations and they
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: figured out that this bomb alone, this test alone, released
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: seven percent of all the fallout from all the tests
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: in Nevada combined. It was huge, and it went everywhere.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: It went up into Iowa, it went to the northeast.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: It was everywhere, and they were like, let's try it again. Yeah,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: they did move twelve million tons of dirt, which was
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the objective. Um again, I sort of see where they're going.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: And if there wasn't nuclear fallout, great, it was just
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: a bunker buster that could do that kind of dirt movement,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it would be great. Well, not great because you're still
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: wrecking wildlife in the ecosystem. They can find somewhere else
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: to live. But you're right, they did say it went great,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: So let's move on to Operation Buggy. That's they wanted
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: to string together a chain of nuclear bombs. It's like
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: it's like they started smoking weed one night and said, hey,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: what else can we do? You know, like like Beavis
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: and butt head, and they said, all right, let's let's
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: link these some bombs together like some black cats. Yeah,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: let's get five of them and see if we can
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: make a channel. It's a nuclear road charge, basically, it's
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: what it was. It's the one and only that the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: US ever conducted. And um, again, I guess it worked.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Five one ko ton bombs that needed simultaneously. That must
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: have been a heck of a thing to see. Yeah,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: and then of course those dopes they're always standing somewhere nearby,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: like behind a lead shield, right, and then they turn
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and look at the camera and then their teeth fall
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: out and then a Simpsons I think, so um, and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: we're laughing. It's not funny. The Simpsons are hilarious. Okay,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: they were. Got. One of the other things that we're
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: looking to do here is what we know now is fracking. Yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Then this is actually like the likeliest thing you could
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: have used a nuclear bomb for as far as like
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: civilian projects go. Yeah, but far less precise is fracking
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to say the least. Yeah. So you know, fracking is
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: where you basically explode some oil that's locked up in
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: shale or natural gas or something like that, so that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you can get to it more easily. Um. But they
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: use it with hydraulic pressure these days, not nuclear bombs. Right,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: it's a little more surgical. Right. It's it's amazing that
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: freck and could get even worse. But sure if you
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: ply a nuclear bomb to it, it makes everything worse, basically, Yeah,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: they call it. They called it then gas stimulation, which
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: um ten jokes. I'm not gonna say I think that's
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: a that's good. Uh, And that actually turned out to
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: be one of the more promising aspects of the whole
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: program because that could generate money. It could, and there
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: were actually corporate sponsors on the that project of course. Um.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: The problem is that they found out later on that
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: when you use a nuclear bomb to um loosen up
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: gas underground locked in rock or whatever, um, it taints
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: it with tritium actually, and you it renders it basically unusable.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: And they figured out that even if you could do
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: it without tritium. What are you laughing about? I can't
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: say it out loud, um, then you you would still
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: be wasting tons and tons and tons of money. Figured out, Yeah,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I mean things became They found out cheaper ways to
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: uh get these resources. Over the years, and so they
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: said non nuclear ways exactly safer and cheaper. Yeah, and
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they and actually through this, um, this investigation in the
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: gas stimulation which one was that was that buggy? Okay, um, no, sorry,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: buggy was the row charge one. I'm not sure what
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the what the that one was called where they looked
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: into it. But um, but for the gas stimulation project,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: they figured out that they had poured eighty two million
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: dollars into it by the time it was over, just
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that one program, and that it would take twenty five
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: years of continuous gas production from these sources just to
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: make back that. So they're like, well, this isn't adding
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: up at all. That's probably the only reason they stopped,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: just because it didn't financially make sense. Well that and
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: then also like it was taining the natural gas with
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: tritium which made it unusable. So this testing went on
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: for twelve years under plowshare, twenty seven experiments, thirty five bombs,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: most of those in Nevada, like I said, and then
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: in nine it finally stopped. But um, the big Daddy
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: hadn't happened yet. Yeah, you want to talk about a
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: couple more of these jobs. For these jobs, um, carry
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: all Operation Carryall was gonna move He said, you know what,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: that highway should move through that mountain range in southern California.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: So it's just blow a valley two miles long through it.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: We're Americans. Why should we drive around mountains. We'll just
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: blow right through them, pretty much. And they not only
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: were they going to move I forty through it, they
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: were also going to move a couple of rail lines
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: through it too. Um and this one did they didn't
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: do this one. This was proposed, right, Yeah, I don't
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: think that. No, of course, this would have been enormous.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: So remember that twenty two bombs they were gonna use
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: in total for that one, right, and then remember the one,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: uh which one was it Sedan, which had even percent
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: of the fallout from all the bombs of Nevada. That
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: one was a hundred and four kilotons, right. Operation carry
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: y'all planned to use twenty two nuclear devices, ranging in
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: payloads from twenty to two hundred kilot tons each. Yeah, yeah, yes,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: it takes a lot of nukes to blow up a mountain,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: my friend. Right, And they were gonna blow about sixty
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: eight million cubic yards of earth, that's what they were
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: planning to blow out of there. It's really really fortunate
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: for everybody anywhere near that area that they didn't actually
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: try this. The boy sure would be able to drive
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: from Arizona to l a quicker slightly quicker. Actually don't
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: know if that's the area, but that's my best guess.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: How about how about yeah, probably I would guess. I'm
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: not sure. I think I fort well, I'm gonna be
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: wrong no matter what I say. From Santa Barbara to Kansas,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: from Milanda Mints, right. So, Operation Chariot was sort of
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the big daddy, um or one of the big daddies.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: This is when the United States said, Alaska, congratulations your state.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Now we're gonna drop nuclear bombs in an area the
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: size of Delaware. Two. See if it works, let's do it.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: That was sort of the reason. I mean, they said
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: apparently there was some sort of military advantage, but I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: think it was non specific. You could just get weapons
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: close to the Soviets, I guess, because we're talking in Alaska,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and you can be Alaska from Sarah Palin's house, right,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: So obviously, if you if you have a means of
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: getting into further into the Arctic Circle by blowing a
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: harbor up. Then not well, creating a harbor, right, that's
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: what they're gonna do, right, Yeah, they said, we would
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: like a nice body of water here, so your your state, congratulations. Here,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: we're gonna reign new ex down on you. And some
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: of the local uh tribes there it wasn't heavily populated,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: but they were like, I don't like this idea. Right here,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: two different villages that were inhabited that were within forty
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: miles of the site and um it. Actually the land
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: was under the control of the Bureau of Land Management,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I believe, but these Inuit groups had like real rights
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: to this area and had a real say in it,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and they were like not happy with this idea at all.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: And other people jumped on board, the Audubon Society and
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: all kinds of you know, environmental rights groups. But Edward
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Teller again, he's the father of the h bomb. He
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: wrote in um Popular Mechanics and I think March of
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, very excitedly about this project. He said
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: that um it was going to use in a matter
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: in a matter of milliseconds, the energy will move twenty
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: million tons of earthen rock, blast out a channel eighteen
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: hundred feet long and seven d defeat wide. At the
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: same time, create an inner harbor a quarter of a
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: mile wide and a half a mile long. Minimum water
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: depth will be around thirty feet. And they were just
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: going to do that in a matter of milliseconds, just
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: create a artificial harbor. And it sounds cool and everything,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: but when you really look at like, why are you
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: doing this, no one had a really good explanation. Uh.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Teller in that same article said there's vast oil and
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: coal reserves. They're just waiting to for people to show
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: up with boats to take it out of He left
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: out the fact that it's actually behind ice nine months
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: of the year, so it wouldn't be very easy to
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: um to industrialize. Um. And there was just holes in
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: this plan bigger than the harbor they were going to create. Yeah,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna put water and fish with five eyes,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: right exactly, another Simpsons reference. Yeah, five eyes, four eyes,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: three three eyes blinky the fish because anything more than
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: one is or more than two, well, yes, one on
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: each side, blinky. We just mauled him. Yeah. Um. So
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the first idea for Chariot was two point four mega
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: tons and then they even they knew that was ridiculous,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and they said, all right, how about four would you
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: call it a colotton? Yeah, to kill a ton and
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: uh but thankfully, um there was enough hay raised in Alaska.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: They said, we're branding state while you're treating us like this,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: and um we said, all right, well maybe you're right
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: bad idea, Yeah, which is great because people started to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: question it and say, you guys just want to see
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: if you can do this, and that's not good enough,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: so stop. And then Plowshare as a whole kind of
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: ran into the same type of resistance. So because of
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: all of these worries about fallout, because here's the problem.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: If you're the United States government, you can't be like
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: you gotta be, you really need to. You're the Soviets
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: and their nuclear weapons, you know, but try not to
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: worry about the weapons were actually blowing up in your state. Right.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: That's that's tough to really spin that in a way
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: where people aren't worried about And the public became more
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and more and more worried about fallout and nuclear testing
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: and especially these underground ones where they're basically fracking or
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: trying to open up aquifers and that kind of stuff.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: They were worried about ground groundwater getting contaminated, and that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: UM really kind of brought Operation Plowshare front and center
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: in the nascent environmental um awareness movement. Yes. Um. And
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: then secondly, when they figured out there's just way cheaper
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: ways of doing this, Uh, there, the Operation plowshare was dead.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they went to their top spin doctor
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: and even that person was like, I got nothing for
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: you here, or you know who their top spin doctor
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: would have been at that time in the seventies, a
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: man himself. Yeah, chills, you got anything else, no, sir.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: And that's the end of that chapter. If you want
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to know more about Operation flos share, just type those
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: words into the search bar how stuff works dot com
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and uh, we'll bring up this article. And since I said,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: uh plowshares, it's time for listening mail, I'm gonna read
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: a quickie uh, and then and then then a real one.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: But we the gauntlet has been laid down. We've got
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: a message from John Hodgman. Oh, yes, you listened to
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: our nostalgia episode. Yeah. I never thought he'd listen. And
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I said, uh, I think we both offered him a
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: chance to rebut we're like, you know, it's not cool
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: just to slam your theory um without you being in
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: the room. I thought it was perfectly cool. It's like,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: but you can you know, if you want to write
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: a listener mail for us, we'll read it. Oh man,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: the indignancy. Oh man, So he sent this in that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: guy gets set off, like at the drop of the hat,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: life was so much better before you trash me in
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: my nostalgia theory all over your podcast. You can't pull
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that and then get me to write something for you
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: for free. I love that for a free thing. Call
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: me up and I'll discuss it with you, dudes, or else,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: let's talk about it on stage when you're in Brooklyn,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: because we're gonna be in Brooklyn this June for two
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: shows at the Bellhouse. Either way, I demand a special
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: episode looking forward to your reply in the future. That
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: is all so uh, we're gonna have John on via
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: calmly and he'll probably rush the stage in New York
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I soon, I sincerely hope not, but we're gonna have
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: him on soon to officially rebut via phone. I'm excited
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: about this, Chuck. It's got me good it's good. Oh,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be great. All right, So here's the real
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: listener mail. I'm gonna call this the gender pay gap episode,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a couple of these over the
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: next couple of weeks because it generated a lot of mail. Alright, yes,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of email. Uh, let's just listen to the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: gender pack up, guys. I'd like say thank you both.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Chuck said at the end, you felt a bit clumsy
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: with getting your points across, and I know you may
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: not have meant it this way, but I want to
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: commend you guys for all the times you've handled sensitive
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: topics like champions. Uh, it's apparently handled. It's apparent when
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: you speak you're mindful of how your words could be
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: interpreted by others, and it's uplifting. You think you guys
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: have young infession. Impressionable fans and podcast lands have taken
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: notice how you were considerate of other perspectives that are
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: not your own. Um, we try, but we we've brewed
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that up to so but I appreciate it. A little
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: side note. When you were talking about gender dominated professions,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that these are jobs that men or women prefer. However,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think that the ratio of one gender or
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: another under profession or industry is indicative only of a preference.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I think it is still the expectation of certain genders
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: having specific jobs. Uh, that is the stronger determinant of
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: professional choice. Uh, profession choice. Imagine if men and women
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: of all races have been given equal opportunity from the
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: get go, what would be the gender makeup of various
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: industries and positions that are currently dominated by one gender?
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Begin to change us. I think it's great importance to
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: instill in young people and understanding that they're not constrained
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: to any set of jobs due to gender. That is
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: from Emily Trene. Emily, that is such a great point.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. And we got so many emails like
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: that about just these little details. Yeah, if you just
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: mention them, it just changes the complexion of everything. It
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: takes this this concept and makes it even more like
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a parent. Yeah, one time, I wish we could go
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: back in time. Well I sort of do too, but
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: we can do that now. Because one thing I wanted
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to mention was one point I wish I had made
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: was I got a lot of responses, um mainly from
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: dudes on our Facebook fade saying well, you know, you
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: set it yourself. Men are more apt to ask for raises.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Men are more aggressive about negotiating their salary to begin with.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: And I was like fine, but like step back and
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: then why is that true? Like don't just say well
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: that's the reason, Like maybe take a more macro view
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: of that even and say, well, why are they more
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: apt to do that? Is that part of society? Is
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: that sy stomach? Um? And I think it is. Sure.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: So that's all I have to say about that. Uh, well,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: thanks again, Emily, thank you, Chuck, sure, thank you, Josh,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: thanks and Jerry, thank you? Quiet Jerry? Should we got
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: wake noal up and thank him. Uh, we'll just leave
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: a note on his head. Um, there's already three notes
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: on his head. And if you know once from like
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: last week. Uh, if you want to get in touch
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: with us to make an excellent point or flesh out
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: a point that we made or what have you, we
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: love to hear that kind of stuff. You can tweet
• 42:35
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• 42:37
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• 42:40
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• 42:43
  Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot Com and has always joined us
• 42:45
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• 42:47
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• 42:55
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