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How to Conceptualize the Role of Parents in Play Therapy · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:04
  Cathi Spooner: A weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy to elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas so you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:33
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:48
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there.
• 0:49
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to this week's episode of Next Level Play Therapy, where we talk about all things play therapy.
• 0:57
  Cathi Spooner: And today I have a question for you.
• 1:02
  Cathi Spooner: If I were to say what, uh, let me see.
• 1:06
  Cathi Spooner: I'll, I'll say like the top, top three, maybe top four.
• 1:13
  Cathi Spooner: What's this one thing?
• 1:16
  Cathi Spooner: Is one of the top four.
• 1:17
  Cathi Spooner: If I were to ask you what is, what is the thing that makes play therapist anxious?
• 1:26
  Cathi Spooner: It activates your imposter syndrome and feeling of incompetence and like two seconds flat.
• 1:36
  Cathi Spooner: What is the one thing or one of the top four you would say is the thing that activates anxiety, distress, feeling like incompetent, worrying that your client's not gonna be coming to play therapy anymore, if people really find out that you don't know what you're doing, and by the way, you actually do know what you're doing, what is the, what is the top thing?
• 2:06
  Cathi Spooner: Top four, one of four.
• 2:09
  Cathi Spooner: So if you said working with parents, then winner, winner chicken dinner for you.
• 2:16
  Cathi Spooner: Because I, I, this is probably one of the top things I hear from play therapists all the time.
• 2:27
  Cathi Spooner: So let me know if any of these sound familiar to you.
• 2:32
  Cathi Spooner: I can't get parents to schedule a parent only session with me and I'm getting phone calls and texts and emails in between sessions about all the terrible things that are going on and play therapy's not working.
• 2:49
  Cathi Spooner: They maybe even talk to their parent, might have talked to their individual therapist about it and that.
• 2:57
  Cathi Spooner: That therapist agreed with them and now parents are telling you, even my therapist is saying play therapy doesn't work.
• 3:07
  Cathi Spooner: These are real things unfortunately, um, that play therapists have had to encounter.
• 3:15
  Cathi Spooner: And there is nothing that strikes anxiety in the hearts of play therapist faster, especially new play therapists.
• 3:26
  Cathi Spooner: I would say even seasoned therapy play therapists, we don't, we don't like it when our clients get pulled from therapy prematurely, and it does happen, but that's the fear, right?
• 3:40
  Cathi Spooner: The fear is, oh, parents are gonna pull their kid from therapy and then it'll be all my fault and it will have mean that I failed.
• 3:52
  Cathi Spooner: I would've failed my client.
• 3:54
  Cathi Spooner: And then you feel like you fail yourself, right?
• 3:57
  Cathi Spooner: These are all the things.
• 3:58
  Cathi Spooner: So if you have answered yes in your head to any of those questions, or if you have answered yes, that you have experienced any of those things, oh, the other thing, I hear all the ti all the time is, I went out to the lobby and my client was there and they asked with the sweetest little face and the sweetest little voice.
• 4:25
  Cathi Spooner: Can my parent come?
• 4:27
  Cathi Spooner: And then there's that internal moment of freezing of, oh my gosh, what do I do now?
• 4:33
  Cathi Spooner: What, what do I say?
• 4:34
  Cathi Spooner: They asked?
• 4:34
  Cathi Spooner: So parents are important, so I, I should bring them in.
• 4:38
  Cathi Spooner: Then it goes terrible'cause everybody's awkward.
• 4:42
  Cathi Spooner: And maybe something happened that you weren't real comfortable with, or you felt awkward because you weren't sure what parents were thinking in this session.
• 4:54
  Cathi Spooner: If you've answered yes to any of those things, then you are in the right place for today because that is exactly what we're gonna talk about.
• 5:03
  Cathi Spooner: And the thing that we're gonna talk about is what are three things, fundamental things that you need to figure out in order to move forward feeling a lot more confident.
• 5:21
  Cathi Spooner: And I would say even competent when you're working with parents.
• 5:27
  Cathi Spooner: And here's the thing, most play therapy sessions, and I would even say most graduate school programs, unless you're a marriage and family therapist, don't really, one, you're not working with children, especially university programs.
• 5:45
  Cathi Spooner: It's rare.
• 5:46
  Cathi Spooner: There are a few, but it's rare that a university program has a whole program or classes or structure in place, including your internships and your practicums.
• 6:02
  Cathi Spooner: That's another thing.
• 6:04
  Cathi Spooner: I'm not even gonna get into that one today because in my head I'm like, oh my gosh, I hear that so many times.
• 6:10
  Cathi Spooner: Um, like I go to my practicum, but I'm the only one working with kids and my supervisor's awesome, but they don't really know how to work with kids.
• 6:18
  Cathi Spooner: And then I get into these issues with parents and I don't know what to do.
• 6:23
  Cathi Spooner: The thing is, most programs and most training when you're working with play therapy and kids don't really talk about how to work with parents when you're working with their child.
• 6:36
  Cathi Spooner: How to work with parents in play therapy, what exactly does that look like and how do we do that?
• 6:44
  Cathi Spooner: And so I think it's something I feel passionate about, not, I think, I do feel passionate about it, but I think it is something we don't talk a lot about, which is why I do talk a lot about it because I hear stories all the time.
• 7:03
  Cathi Spooner: And the same thing keeps happening over and over and over.
• 7:07
  Cathi Spooner: And I'm almost 30 years, 35 years in, I'm over 30 years in and I'm still hearing it.
• 7:12
  Cathi Spooner: So obviously we still need the support in this area.
• 7:18
  Cathi Spooner: And so today, in today's episode, I really wanna look at this as kind of a workshopy topic.
• 7:27
  Cathi Spooner: So if you're listening or watching the live stream.
• 7:32
  Cathi Spooner: Or maybe you're watching the replay or even listening to the podcast, feel free to stop and go, well, for the live stream, you can't stop and go, but you can always go back and listen to the replay or go over and listen to the podcast, but, but I really want to kind of have you do this in maybe a little bit of a workshop framework.
• 7:59
  Cathi Spooner: And what I mean by that is write things down, take notes, stop.
• 8:03
  Cathi Spooner: I, I wanna challenge you to do some thinking about what this would look like for you and the work that you are doing in play therapy with parents.
• 8:18
  Cathi Spooner: So that is what we are talking about today.
• 8:21
  Cathi Spooner: So my name's Cathi Spooner.
• 8:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'm a licensed clinical social worker and registered play therapy supervisor, and I have been in the mental health field for almost 35 years now.
• 8:35
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and, I go live every Wednesday on Instagram.
• 8:44
  Cathi Spooner: If I don't have a guest, I go live on Instagram 'cause I use StreamYard to stream and it's hard to do that on Instagram.
• 8:53
  Cathi Spooner: But anyways, um, so I got live every week on Instagram, YouTube, and my, um, my in LinkedIn.
• 9:07
  Cathi Spooner: So let's, let's get started to, I forgot to say, um, if you find this information useful, please feel free to share it across your social media platforms.
• 9:20
  Cathi Spooner: And if you're watching on YouTube, then feel free to hit that subscribe button and notification bell.
• 9:27
  Cathi Spooner: So you know when I go live every week or, um, and then if you're watching, you wanna watch the replays on my YouTube channel, it's really easy to find 'em there.
• 9:37
  Cathi Spooner: You just go onto the live tab and you'll see all of 'em.
• 9:41
  Cathi Spooner: It goes back a few years.
• 9:43
  Cathi Spooner: They, I can't.
• 9:45
  Cathi Spooner: stream into my Facebook group anymore, but I started originally Whoof.
• 9:51
  Cathi Spooner: It's probably four years ago now.
• 9:54
  Cathi Spooner: Those are all in my Facebook group.
• 9:58
  Cathi Spooner: And you could see the ones when I was in there when I first got it started, I wanted to throw up every time I hit the Go Live button.
• 10:06
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, so, uh, all my early ones are in my Facebook group, but most of them, you can find most of 'em.
• 10:13
  Cathi Spooner: Um, for the last kind of, probably three years on LinkedIn.
• 10:19
  Cathi Spooner: Alrighty, so let's get started for today.
• 10:22
  Cathi Spooner: Alright, so today what we are talking about is how to conceptualize the role of parents in play therapy.
• 10:32
  Cathi Spooner: I did talk a little bit about this last week in last week's live episode.
• 10:38
  Cathi Spooner: So if you want to kind of have more information, you can go back and listen to last week's.
• 10:45
  Cathi Spooner: Also, I've talked about this a bunch, so you can always pop over to my YouTube channel on the live stream, on the live tab, and go through and watch some of those replays.
• 11:02
  Cathi Spooner: So the first thing that I think is critical in order to set up this foundation of skill building is how are you defining the role of parents?
• 11:22
  Cathi Spooner: And I like to use the lens of neuroscience and attachment theory.
• 11:27
  Cathi Spooner: Couple of reasons.
• 11:28
  Cathi Spooner: There's decades of research that give us information.
• 11:33
  Cathi Spooner: We get more all the time and also using that lens, I feel like that lens will, you can integrate that in any play therapy, theoretical model.
• 11:48
  Cathi Spooner: For example, if you are using child-centered play therapy that I personally think child-centered pers uh, child-centered play therapy is fundamentally an attachment kind of approach to use with children because it's so heavily focused on the relationship between the therapist, uh, play therapist and the child.
• 12:14
  Cathi Spooner: So if you look at neuroscience and attachment theory, you can, um, you can kind of see how those fit together, including how you work with children.
• 12:26
  Cathi Spooner: I mean, sorry, how you work with parents.
• 12:29
  Cathi Spooner: Be, just because you're using child-centered play therapy doesn't mean you can't work with the parents.
• 12:36
  Cathi Spooner: That model influences how you meet with parents and it influence and then, that's that how question is influenced by how you define parents' role, and that role is based on your theoretical model.
• 12:58
  Cathi Spooner: If I'm using a neuroscience and attachment theory model, then I am conceptualizing the role of parents through that lens, and I'm looking at decades of research to show me how attachment influences and is critical in child development, not just for um.
• 13:31
  Cathi Spooner: Not just so they can have a good relationship with their parents.
• 13:34
  Cathi Spooner: It's much, much deeper than that.
• 13:37
  Cathi Spooner: When you're using that neuroscience and attachment lens, we, we use concepts by Peter Funy about mentalization.
• 13:48
  Cathi Spooner: How are you understanding the intentions, the beliefs, the emotions, the values of others based on these intentional behaviors that have now developed in your mind and created these whole belief systems in yourself about yourself, others, and how relationship works.
• 14:10
  Cathi Spooner: We look at mental models, right?
• 14:12
  Cathi Spooner: Maps made, we're looking at interpersonal neurobiology.
• 14:17
  Cathi Spooner: What are those neuro pathways laid down and those implicit experiences stored, and what is that implicit bias that gets activated within relationships?
• 14:33
  Cathi Spooner: And physiologically, how does that impact us?
• 14:38
  Cathi Spooner: So when we're using that neuroscience and attachment lens, we're, we're even thinking about neural, uh, network development and how that influences our neural pathways that are strengthened or pruned, right?
• 14:58
  Cathi Spooner: We get that from Bruce Perry.
• 15:01
  Cathi Spooner: All of these things, when we are using a neuroscience and attachment lens, then we're beginning to formulate our conceptualization of the role of parents and that that whole case conceptualization is going to be influenced by your theoretical model.
• 15:24
  Cathi Spooner: So let's say even, even if you're using Adlerian Play Therapy or Gestalt Play Therapy, these are two models that that conceptualize the role of children within their larger environment, right?
• 15:40
  Cathi Spooner: So child-centered play therapy, it just kind of conceptualizes the child and that relationship between play therapist and child.
• 15:50
  Cathi Spooner: And then, the, the parents we kind of meet separately because that's how the model was developed and that's how the model conceptualizes.
• 16:02
  Cathi Spooner: In a, in a, um, Adlerian or, or Gestalt play therapy or family play therapy model, the, the, the role of parents would be conceptualized a little differently.
• 16:17
  Cathi Spooner: And so here's what another place where I wanna kind of challenge and dig a little deeper.
• 16:24
  Cathi Spooner: I, I remember being in graduate school, I always wanted to work with children.
• 16:31
  Cathi Spooner: I went into being a graduate, go getting into a graduate school program knowing I wanted to work with children.
• 16:38
  Cathi Spooner: I didn't know much about therapy back in the day.
• 16:43
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and I, I didn't know exactly what that looked like.
• 16:46
  Cathi Spooner: I knew what I knew, what play therapy looked like because I had been introduced to it when I was in my twenties as a special education teacher.
• 16:59
  Cathi Spooner: And went to graduate school and I learned about this thing called family therapy.
• 17:05
  Cathi Spooner: Oh my goodness.
• 17:07
  Cathi Spooner: You would've thought I was a new convert, right?
• 17:10
  Cathi Spooner: I was all, it was like somebody shined a light in the darkness of my mind, finding the missing piece to the puzzle to really understand children, looking at children in context.
• 17:27
  Cathi Spooner: And then, you know, over the years, over the decades getting, getting introduced to attachment theory, neuroscience and attachment theory and all of the pieces began to fit when you're thinking about working with children.
• 17:42
  Cathi Spooner: But I remember being in graduate school and I took one class on working with children.
• 17:51
  Cathi Spooner: Basically it was a class on diagnosing children.
• 17:57
  Cathi Spooner: That was it.
• 17:58
  Cathi Spooner: And then I, I had my practicums in grad school.
• 18:03
  Cathi Spooner: No, no children.
• 18:05
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause nobody knew how to do it.
• 18:06
  Cathi Spooner: And you're just trying to get your degree right.
• 18:09
  Cathi Spooner: You're just trying to get it done.
• 18:10
  Cathi Spooner: Plus, I didn't know.
• 18:12
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and then getting a job and having amazing supervisors, I learned, I feel so fortunate.
• 18:20
  Cathi Spooner: I have always had excellent supervisors in my, in my beginning.
• 18:27
  Cathi Spooner: That being said, none of them knew how to work with children, and so they had a playroom in the place where I worked, but nobody knew how to do it.
• 18:37
  Cathi Spooner: And the kind of, the theory was, oh, their kids just play with them.
• 18:41
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, just, oh, you're not sure what to do, you know, just get some worksheets, and it felt horrible.
• 18:47
  Cathi Spooner: It felt horrible.
• 18:49
  Cathi Spooner: And just trying to figure out, but nobody really understood one, how to use play therapy, which is getting a little better now, but still there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of areas for growing, right?
• 19:06
  Cathi Spooner: But I would say the big thing is not just how to work with children and play therapy, but how do you use a play therapy model?
• 19:15
  Cathi Spooner: How do you integrate parents?
• 19:18
  Cathi Spooner: What is, and most of the training that we get doesn't focus on that.
• 19:22
  Cathi Spooner: And so what I find as a result is a lot of play therapists, this is an area where there is a big struggle.
• 19:31
  Cathi Spooner: And so here's what I want you to do.
• 19:33
  Cathi Spooner: If you're listening or watching the, um, today's episode, I really want you to stop and think.
• 19:41
  Cathi Spooner: Think about what play therapy model you are using.
• 19:46
  Cathi Spooner: And what does your play therapy model say about the role of parents in play therapy?
• 19:55
  Cathi Spooner: Fundamentally, what is the role of parents?
• 20:01
  Cathi Spooner: And then kind of write out what that means from your, from your play therapy model.
• 20:10
  Cathi Spooner: And then it also, if you wanna add some neuroscience and attachment theory to that.
• 20:16
  Cathi Spooner: What is neuroscience and attachment theory, interpersonal neurobiology, mentalization, polyvagal theory.
• 20:26
  Cathi Spooner: Um, attachment theory using internal working models.
• 20:31
  Cathi Spooner: Like what is your theoretical foundation that you are using, and what does your theoretical foundation say is the role of parents and why?
• 20:45
  Cathi Spooner: Why are they important?
• 20:47
  Cathi Spooner: Because when you go to explain it to parents, you're, you need to explain why.
• 20:55
  Cathi Spooner: And the thing is, in order to engage parents effectively, we really need to be clear about our, how we're defining their role, and how are we inviting them into the process.
• 21:14
  Cathi Spooner: In order to do, and I, I clearly, I believe parents are a, a critical part of the healing process based on my theoretical foundation and how I conceptualize using a neuroscience and attachment lens.
• 21:32
  Cathi Spooner: I believe they are critical.
• 21:34
  Cathi Spooner: In fact, one of the ways I kind of want to challenge a new way of thinking about it a little bit is, if I asked you who is the therapeutic agent of change for the child in play therapy, who would you say, right?
• 21:54
  Cathi Spooner: The therapeutic agent of change is a fancy term for saying who is the facilitator of deep healing for the child?
• 22:08
  Cathi Spooner: We've been taught most of the time, unless you're a, the, uh, marriage and family therapist.
• 22:14
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I feel like I'm a marriage and family therapist in my heart.
• 22:19
  Cathi Spooner: As a social worker we think systemically also.
• 22:22
  Cathi Spooner: But then I found out about play the, um, family, thera Family, family systems theory in grad school.
• 22:29
  Cathi Spooner: And so, I'm kind of an in, I'm, I'm internally a marriage and family therapist in my heart who's a social worker.
• 22:37
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and so I, I lost my train of thought.
• 22:43
  Cathi Spooner: I kind of get lost on that.
• 22:46
  Cathi Spooner: What was I saying?
• 22:49
  Cathi Spooner: All right.
• 22:50
  Cathi Spooner: So if we're thinking about the role of parents, um, and I'm using, uh, neuroscience and attachment theory.
• 23:00
  Cathi Spooner: The thing that I wanna push back on a little bit is who, who is the therapeutic agent of change?
• 23:06
  Cathi Spooner: Most people would say the play therapist.
• 23:09
  Cathi Spooner: The play therapist is the one in the play therapy session.
• 23:15
  Cathi Spooner: I wanna challenge that to say that, to say that I think parents are the therapeutic agent of change.
• 23:24
  Cathi Spooner: And my job is to, to facilitate connection, trust, and, and strong therapeutic rapport with parents so that they feel seen, heard, supported.
• 23:41
  Cathi Spooner: They can trust me, trust that I'm not judging them.
• 23:46
  Cathi Spooner: That they, they, they'll feel comfortable talking with me about when their shark music, right.
• 23:52
  Cathi Spooner: That's a circle of security term.
• 23:54
  Cathi Spooner: When their shark music gets activated, especially shaming, guilt.
• 23:59
  Cathi Spooner: We can have a conversation about that and I can provide support so they can go and do the things that I'm asking them to do with their child.
• 24:08
  Cathi Spooner: That might be family play therapy sessions.
• 24:11
  Cathi Spooner: That might be meeting with me separately so we can do parenting skills.
• 24:17
  Cathi Spooner: For me, it is probably both.
• 24:19
  Cathi Spooner: At some point in time we're doing family play therapy sessions, but the key is I think, how are we conceptualizing the role of parents?
• 24:30
  Cathi Spooner: How is that influenced by your theoretical model?
• 24:34
  Cathi Spooner: And then that's going to influence your decision making about what to do with parents.
• 24:42
  Cathi Spooner: So that brings us to the next question.
• 24:45
  Cathi Spooner: So that first one you're writing down, how are you defining the role of parents in play therapy and why?
• 24:54
  Cathi Spooner: What is your theoretical foundation for that, um, how, how you're conceptualizing parents that way.
• 25:06
  Cathi Spooner: Then that's gonna influence how parents participate.
• 25:12
  Cathi Spooner: So here you wanna think about what are your expectations based on your theoretical framework, your theoretical lens, your theoretical foundation, based on how are you defining the role of parents and why?
• 25:29
  Cathi Spooner: Then how do you want parents to participate?
• 25:33
  Cathi Spooner: What are, and you have to get clear on this first.
• 25:36
  Cathi Spooner: So this is your time.
• 25:38
  Cathi Spooner: Like if you're multitasking right now, uh, if you're driving, 'cause you're listening to the podcast, you can listen later.
• 25:46
  Cathi Spooner: Don't, don't do this while you're driving.
• 25:50
  Cathi Spooner: But think about this.
• 25:52
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 25:54
  Cathi Spooner: What are your expectations for parents, and this is what I had to do, this a like, decades ago, well, not decades, but probably 20 years ago at this point, I just remember getting so frustrated.
• 26:09
  Cathi Spooner: I'm getting all the phone calls.
• 26:10
  Cathi Spooner: I can't get the parent to schedule with me.
• 26:12
  Cathi Spooner: I'm trying to accommodate, I'm doing all the things, and I found myself getting really, really frustrated and thinking, oh, they don't care.
• 26:20
  Cathi Spooner: You know, they just want me to fix it.
• 26:22
  Cathi Spooner: All the things.
• 26:23
  Cathi Spooner: And then I thought to myself.
• 26:24
  Cathi Spooner: Wait a minute, you're not being compassionate here.
• 26:29
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and compassionate doesn't mean we don't have expectations.
• 26:33
  Cathi Spooner: We can still have expectations.
• 26:36
  Cathi Spooner: We can still hold boundaries.
• 26:39
  Cathi Spooner: It our, our internal congruence around, um, parents and their role it, right?
• 26:48
  Cathi Spooner: That's what we're looking at.
• 26:49
  Cathi Spooner: So I had to tell myself to step back a minute, like, what?
• 26:53
  Cathi Spooner: Wait a minute, I actually haven't identified, I didn't communicate that to parents from the get go.
• 27:03
  Cathi Spooner: How are they supposed to know if I don't explain it to them?
• 27:09
  Cathi Spooner: I am naturally assuming they're going to do what I want.
• 27:15
  Cathi Spooner: Well, I don't know about you, but I'm, if you don't, tell me why and help me understand the reason for this, when I think it seems silly, you're not likely to engage me.
• 27:28
  Cathi Spooner: Like I'm, I'm not a just follow along and do what you want person, which is kind of irritating for people sometimes.
• 27:36
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and I, and you know, I don't mean to be annoying, but on the other hand, if you want me to do something, why should I just blindly do it?
• 27:43
  Cathi Spooner: That that opens up a whole host of other things.
• 27:47
  Cathi Spooner: Well, parents are the same.
• 27:49
  Cathi Spooner: They're not gonna know.
• 27:49
  Cathi Spooner: They're not the therapist.
• 27:51
  Cathi Spooner: And I had to remind myself of that, you know what, this parent is not the therapist I am.
• 27:57
  Cathi Spooner: And I didn't, I didn't communicate my expectations.
• 28:02
  Cathi Spooner: And then I thought, oh my gosh, what are my expectations?
• 28:07
  Cathi Spooner: And I consider myself to be a recovering people pleaser, which is why I just don't go along anymore as part of my people pleasing recovery process.
• 28:18
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 28:19
  Cathi Spooner: Plus I like to think for myself that way I can, you know, if I make the decision it goes badly, then I made the decision I have to own it.
• 28:27
  Cathi Spooner: Right?
• 28:28
  Cathi Spooner: Anyway, so.
• 28:30
  Cathi Spooner: So I had to get brutally honest.
• 28:32
  Cathi Spooner: What are my expectations if I take my people pleasing out, if it, if it were really gonna be the way that I wanted it to be and the way that I believed it needed to be, what would that look like?
• 28:47
  Cathi Spooner: And what does my play therapy model say is the role of parents and how am I gonna decide and that's gonna influence how am I deciding if parents are in the session and if their session in the session, how am I structuring that?
• 29:09
  Cathi Spooner: That's gonna avoid getting into that place where your cute little your cute little client with their cute little face and their cute little voice looks at you with those cute little eyes and say, Hey, can my parent come in with so much excitement?
• 29:24
  Cathi Spooner: You're like, how can I say no to that?
• 29:26
  Cathi Spooner: But then it doesn't necessarily mean they need to come in.
• 29:32
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe, maybe it would be a good thing.
• 29:35
  Cathi Spooner: But if you have figured out your expectations and you have communicated those, and you've communicated what that's gonna look like, then you've structured it and you can avoid getting into some frustrating situations where you're feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, burned out, um, irritated, imposter syndrome is in high gear.
• 30:06
  Cathi Spooner: You can avoid those situations by first figuring out what are your expectations of why, why are they your expectations?
• 30:14
  Cathi Spooner: What does your theoretical model say is how you're gonna en engage parents.
• 30:21
  Cathi Spooner: So, so this would be a time for you to write down, what are your expectations?
• 30:29
  Cathi Spooner: Like if it could be how you wanted it to be, what would that look like?
• 30:34
  Cathi Spooner: How would parents be involved?
• 30:37
  Cathi Spooner: And then what?
• 30:38
  Cathi Spooner: And back that up.
• 30:40
  Cathi Spooner: Then you're gonna kind of double check that.
• 30:42
  Cathi Spooner: Okay, here's what I want.
• 30:44
  Cathi Spooner: Let me go back and look at my theory model and then ground that in my theoretical model.
• 30:52
  Cathi Spooner: And then once I figure out the role, then how is that gonna look in the sessions?
• 31:01
  Cathi Spooner: If parents are in the sessions or if they're not in the sessions.
• 31:05
  Cathi Spooner: If they're in the sessions with the child, what is that structured like?
• 31:11
  Cathi Spooner: What's the focus?
• 31:12
  Cathi Spooner: What, what does your model say that you're doing with that?
• 31:16
  Cathi Spooner: If you're meeting with parents separately, what does that look like?
• 31:20
  Cathi Spooner: What is that structure gonna look like?
• 31:23
  Cathi Spooner: These are all the things that would be good for you to kind of take some time to write those down and think those through.
• 31:31
  Cathi Spooner: Because you have to get those two things sorted out and settled in your mind in order to do the third thing, which is how are you gonna explain your role?
• 31:43
  Cathi Spooner: How are you gonna explain, explain to parents what is their role in play therapy, even when are you gonna do it?
• 31:53
  Cathi Spooner: And I always say, do it from the first phone call and then do it again in that diagnostic intake appointment, that very first appointment where you're gathering all of the information, especially about parents' role and how are you conceptualizing the parenting piece of it?
• 32:09
  Cathi Spooner: Where, where do they need some help with that?
• 32:12
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe how might they unknowingly be contributing to the sustaining the problem.
• 32:20
  Cathi Spooner: All of these things you're doing in that first intake appointment, and then now you're explaining to parents.
• 32:28
  Cathi Spooner: Now you figure you've got your case conceptualization, you've identified your expectations, and now you're gonna communicate those.
• 32:37
  Cathi Spooner: And so you, you wanna consider how your play therapy model makes sense of the presenting problem and the parent's role.
• 32:47
  Cathi Spooner: And then you are communicating like, what are two to three things that define the role of parents in play therapy and maybe what's going on with their child and how their partnership with you?
• 33:04
  Cathi Spooner: Not drop 'em off in the office.
• 33:08
  Cathi Spooner: You are helping them understand they're partnering with you because they're a vital key process and you are there to support them as much as you are to support your client.
• 33:21
  Cathi Spooner: In fact, if you consider parents as the therapeutic agents of change, then that even increases the importance of parents partnering with you.
• 33:38
  Cathi Spooner: They're with their child every day for the rest of their lives.
• 33:43
  Cathi Spooner: You are with their child for a brief period of time, one hour a week, 45 minutes a week, and that you are there to support them, to help them as much as you are their child.
• 33:56
  Cathi Spooner: So, so this is gonna be how you are explaining it.
• 34:01
  Cathi Spooner: How are you explaining to parents what is their role the change process.
• 34:08
  Cathi Spooner: And then what I, what I encourage you to do is write all that down.
• 34:13
  Cathi Spooner: Like write it down.
• 34:16
  Cathi Spooner: So that, and PI would even say practice saying it.
• 34:19
  Cathi Spooner: Maybe get somebody else to say it with role.
• 34:22
  Cathi Spooner: Play it a little bit.
• 34:23
  Cathi Spooner: I know in um, play Therapy Academy, we do this, all the time I have Play Therapist role play with me all the time.
• 34:33
  Cathi Spooner: And now, now that I've gotten Elevation Circle, which is my, my membership program, then I just got started.
• 34:42
  Cathi Spooner: Now we're starting to do that in there as well.
• 34:45
  Cathi Spooner: In fact, we just start in Play Therapy Elevation Circle next month we're gonna be starting our monthly book club, and we're starting to read the.
• 34:56
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, we're gonna be reading the Brainwise therapist.
• 34:59
  Cathi Spooner: So I just finished reading the first three chapters.
• 35:02
  Cathi Spooner: Well, I read chapter three yesterday.
• 35:04
  Cathi Spooner: It's all about interpersonal neurobiology and integration, and the middle prefrontal cortex area.
• 35:11
  Cathi Spooner: And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, this is what I'm talking about tomorrow.
• 35:17
  Cathi Spooner: Like the role of parents, right?
• 35:19
  Cathi Spooner: This is why it's so important.
• 35:22
  Cathi Spooner: So anyways, we, we talk, I get so excited about that book club that we're doing an Elevation Circle that I can't stand it.
• 35:29
  Cathi Spooner: Anyways, so, um, so these are, these are things that would be in.
• 35:35
  Cathi Spooner: I import, maybe write them down and maybe role play how are you gonna explain it to parents just to get your confidence up a little bit.
• 35:44
  Cathi Spooner: So that's it for today.
• 35:46
  Cathi Spooner: Let me do a quick recap, and if you're interested, I'm gonna tell you about a course I have and for a brief period of time, because everybody's going back to, all the kids are going back to school play, therapists, caseloads are just gonna start getting full again.
• 36:03
  Cathi Spooner: I thought it'd be a really good time to, um, offer a discount for one of my online courses.
• 36:11
  Cathi Spooner: It's very comprehensive about working with parents.
• 36:15
  Cathi Spooner: Like if you want all this laid out, then, the course, the partnering with parents is a, um, probably a course that you would find useful.
• 36:26
  Cathi Spooner: So let me do my quick recap and then I'll tell you about the parenting course that I have on sale right now.
• 36:36
  Cathi Spooner: So the first thing is really how are you defining the role of parents?
• 36:44
  Cathi Spooner: And if you use a neuroscience and attachment lens to define the role of parents and you're really thinking about parents as a therapeutic agents of change in order to create lasting and deep healing, even I would say at the neurobiological and at, you know, level, those neural pathways, then you, you are conceptualizing parents as the therapeutic agent of change and your role is to support parents in order to help them be that therapeutic agent of change.
• 37:18
  Cathi Spooner: So it's still child focused.
• 37:21
  Cathi Spooner: It's just now you're conceptualizing the role of parents as a critical part of helping that child heal.
• 37:31
  Cathi Spooner: And then once you have figured out how you are defining the role of parents, then you need to think about what are your expectations for how parents are going to participate.
• 37:48
  Cathi Spooner: What are your expectations and why?
• 37:52
  Cathi Spooner: Why are, why are those expectations the way they are?
• 37:57
  Cathi Spooner: What does your play therapy model say about the role of parents and why?
• 38:04
  Cathi Spooner: Because your play therapy model is going to explain the why as well.
• 38:10
  Cathi Spooner: And then, based on those expectations and based on the reasons you have those expectations, then you're gonna decide what is that actually gonna look like in practical application.
• 38:25
  Cathi Spooner: How are pa, are they gonna be in the play therapy sessions?
• 38:28
  Cathi Spooner: Are they not gonna be in the play therapy sessions?
• 38:30
  Cathi Spooner: When are they gonna be in play therapy sessions and when are they not gonna be in play therapy sessions?
• 38:36
  Cathi Spooner: And when they're in play therapy sessions, what does that mean about what you're going to be doing in those play therapy sessions and why are you doing that?
• 38:45
  Cathi Spooner: So it answers all the questions once you get your, your conceptualization of their roll down pat, then you are, you identify your expectations and why.
• 38:58
  Cathi Spooner: And then the third thing is how are you communicating to parents, what is their role?
• 39:06
  Cathi Spooner: You're gonna want to go back to your, the way you conceptualize their role based on your theoretical model.
• 39:13
  Cathi Spooner: And then two to three things that your theory kind of defines.
• 39:20
  Cathi Spooner: About the role of parents and why, and then write down how you're gonna explain that to parents.
• 39:29
  Cathi Spooner: I had a, I had a plea therapist that worked for me years and years and years ago when I was in Virginia.
• 39:35
  Cathi Spooner: She did this brilliant thing.
• 39:37
  Cathi Spooner: I loved it.
• 39:38
  Cathi Spooner: I thought it was so cool.
• 39:40
  Cathi Spooner: But then I'm kind of nerdy.
• 39:41
  Cathi Spooner: So she did a whole PowerPoint presentation that she would, and it was, it wasn't a long one.
• 39:48
  Cathi Spooner: I think maybe it was like six or seven slides maybe, and that she just laid it out.
• 39:55
  Cathi Spooner: In a, in a logical, organized way, based on her theoretical model.
• 40:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, what is, you know, what is play therapy?
• 40:05
  Cathi Spooner: What is she gonna be doing with their child?
• 40:07
  Cathi Spooner: And what is their role and what is that gonna look like?
• 40:10
  Cathi Spooner: The role of parents.
• 40:12
  Cathi Spooner: So think about how you are going to explain it and then write it all out so you get clear yourself.
• 40:21
  Cathi Spooner: So that is it for today's session or livestream episode, podcast, or livestream replay.
• 40:30
  Cathi Spooner: If you're interested, I have a course called Getting Grounded Partnering with Parents in Play Therapy.
• 40:38
  Cathi Spooner: It, it is a very comprehensive course.
• 40:41
  Cathi Spooner: I had all the play, this is a while back, I had all the Play Therapy Academy members ask me, hey, what do you guys want in a course?
• 40:48
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause the courses are included in Play Therapy Academy.
• 40:52
  Cathi Spooner: Um, what do you guys want in your course?
• 40:54
  Cathi Spooner: And they gave me their whole wishlist.
• 40:56
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 40:57
  Cathi Spooner: Conceptualizing using a neuroscience and attachment lens.
• 41:02
  Cathi Spooner: We walk through the neuroscience and attachment theoretical lens explaining why parents, the role of parents, and understanding that at attachment.
• 41:15
  Cathi Spooner: And then there's also, and then how to even work with challenging parents.
• 41:21
  Cathi Spooner: I feel like the easy parents, the really high functioning parents, um, naturally will get it.
• 41:27
  Cathi Spooner: They'll naturally be motivated to go find things out.
• 41:31
  Cathi Spooner: I feel like when you're working with the more challenging parents who are struggling more, it's important for us to be able to understand how our theory lens then says, how are we even gonna work with these parents?
• 41:46
  Cathi Spooner: And I feel like when you're using a neuroscience and attachment lens, it gives you lots of good information about now how to work with even challenging parents.
• 41:58
  Cathi Spooner: So you can build trust, you can build that bridge with them of trust and get them on board, and now you're providing support to them so they can help their child.
• 42:08
  Cathi Spooner: So there's, there's a, there's modules on all of those things.
• 42:13
  Cathi Spooner: There's, there's the practical how to, what to do, when to do what, um, traps to not fall into like, do this, don't do that.
• 42:23
  Cathi Spooner: Some of those things that I've learned over the last million years.
• 42:27
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and then also even like some tips for working with um, children who are working with parents in high conflict divorce situations.
• 42:40
  Cathi Spooner: Not like some thing, you gotta make sure you do this, think about this.
• 42:44
  Cathi Spooner: Here's why you need to do that.
• 42:46
  Cathi Spooner: If you don't do that, I'm telling you, you're not gonna enjoy your life.
• 42:49
  Cathi Spooner: You're, you're gonna hit your life.
• 42:51
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so I wa like all my 30 plus years of being in the mental health field, working with children and families.
• 43:00
  Cathi Spooner: I, I put all of that in this course, so it's very comprehensive.
• 43:07
  Cathi Spooner: Um, it's, it's, they're all prerecorded.
• 43:10
  Cathi Spooner: Take it in your time zone when it's convenient for you.
• 43:15
  Cathi Spooner: Um, there's, there's guides in there.
• 43:18
  Cathi Spooner: There's kind of workbooks, things to help you apply the skills, and right now it's $40 off.
• 43:26
  Cathi Spooner: Um, it's 11 play therapy ces.
• 43:29
  Cathi Spooner: I think it's also approved for, um, social work CES here in the US So it's very comprehensive.
• 43:37
  Cathi Spooner: You are gonna walk out of there feeling much more confident, having a plan, knowing what to do and why you're gonna be doing it.
• 43:48
  Cathi Spooner: Then you can apply those right away.
• 43:51
  Cathi Spooner: So the course is called Getting Grounded Partnering with Parents in Play Therapy.
• 43:57
  Cathi Spooner: You can get it now while it's$40 off at Renewing Hearts Play therapy training.com.
• 44:06
  Cathi Spooner: That's RH Play therapy training.com.
• 44:11
  Cathi Spooner: RH play therapy training.com and the course is called Getting Grounded Partnering with Parents in Play Therapy.
• 44:21
  Cathi Spooner: Alrighty, I will see you next week.
• 44:23
  Cathi Spooner: Bye for now.
• 44:30
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 44:35
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gain new insights and ideas to support your work helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 44:43
  Cathi Spooner: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to.
• 44:47
  Cathi Spooner: Subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 44:50
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 44:56
  Cathi Spooner: Remember, play Therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth.
• 45:00
  Cathi Spooner: Whether you're a new play therapist or experienced, I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work in relationships.
• 45:12
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topic suggestions for future episodes, I'd love to hear from you.
• 45:19
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 45:31
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 45:35
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning and growing.