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Sea turtle rehabilitation with Dr. Shawn Larson · Lightning Strikes Twice

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Lightning Strikes Twice, the Seattle Aquariums podcast, where we get to spend a little extra time with the experts who appear during our Lightning Talks broadcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Carrie Garand.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I use she, her pronouns, and I'm the interpretation supervisor and a diver here at the Seattle Aquarium.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to be chatting today with our guest, who is Dr.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sean Larson, the Senior Conservation Research Manager at the Seattle Aquarium.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: And Sean has been working with the Seattle Aquarium for 31 amazing years, leading research and rehabilitation activities.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Since she started working here in 1995, she has successfully rehabilitated 12 sea turtles.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we got to learn a little bit more about that process during her talk.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really excited to have you joining us here today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Sean.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: How's it going?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Carrie.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's going well.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: I am doing fantastic.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it is always really fun to talk to you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: I have worked with Sean for 18 years of my time here at the Seattle Aquarium.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also lucky enough to occasionally get to join Sean on some research activities, going out, not looking at sea turtles, but looking at rockfish in my case.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I am excited to dive a little bit deeper into what you shared with us last time.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because last time, Sean, we got to talk to you during the lightning talks all about sea turtles.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if anybody's looking to check that out along with any of our previous lightning talks, please do go to our Seattle Aquarium YouTube channel.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Sean, you shared a bit about the work that the Seattle Aquarium has been doing with sea turtle rehabilitation and some of the methods that are used to do that work.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: And Sean, you might recall.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you remember, but you did get cut off by the big old lightning strike, which means I know you have.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, of course.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I meant to do that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we always do.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's hard to limit anybody to talk about something for just five minutes.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: It goes by so fast, especially when you have been as involved for as long as you have been.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, to start today, I just want our listeners to hear: is there anything more you want to share?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: What didn't you get to share about sea turtle rehabilitation?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because now you have the stage.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: We've got we've got a lot more than five minutes.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Carrie.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the lightning struck me right after I gone into a bit of detail about what it takes to rehabilitate a cold shock sea turtle when it comes to the Seattle Aquarium.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it is very involved.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these guys come to us.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Being cold shocked in the North Pacific, we don't know for how long.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know how long it's been since they've eaten.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know how long they've they've been cold.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when they're cold, all the systems start to shut down.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Their muscles shut down, their digestive system shuts down, their breathing gets really slow, their heart rate, all this stuff.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to slowly warm them up so they can get to a place where they can eat and move normally and heal all their wounds, et cetera.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what I didn't get to say is what happens next.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So after we rehabilitate them and now they're healthy, relatively healthy sea turtles, we're not going to release them back into the cold waters of Puget Sound or off the coast of Washington to just get cold shocked again.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: That wouldn't be smart.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we have partners that we work with and have worked with for the last 30 plus years in Southern California, SeaWorld San Diego.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So they are our primary partners.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens is well before we put a sea turtle on a plane to fly them to San Diego, we coordinate with them and say, hey, we've got a sea turtle.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be here for, you know, another couple of weeks or a month.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can you take this sea turtle?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: When's the best time to take a new animal?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they let us know.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then we call up turtles fly too, or sometimes the Coast Guard has flown them down.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Any rate, we get that sea turtle on a plane.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's all in a nice, comfortable box protected by foam and blankets and everything like that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's any turbulence, that it doesn't get injured on the way down.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we always send a staff member down with it as well.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so the turtle and our staff land in San Diego.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: We meet up with our partners at SeaWorld San Diego, and the turtle gets to swim in a nice big pool.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's isolated and in quarantine, but it's still bigger, as big or bigger than the pool it was at the Seattle Aquarium, and it's at the same temperature.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So their temperature doesn't change.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually at about 75 degrees Fahrenheit.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it stays there for a varying amount of time, maybe a few weeks to even a few months, to put on some more pounds and get ready to be released out into the big ocean off of Southern California, even into Mexican waters, so it can be a happy, healthy sea turtle in warmer waters and go be part of the population out there and make more baby sea turtles.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our ultimate goal is to put them back into the population so they can be part of it and be a sea turtle and continue the species.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm remembering correctly, many of them endangered, others listed as threatened.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the more opportunity, the more turtles out there with the opportunity to be able to breed and hopefully successfully lay their eggs and their nest and have more baby sea turtles, the better.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just quite the process.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: When I when I hear you talk about that and I think about like from your lightning talk to everything you just shared, there's so many moving parts.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're playing detective a little bit, trying to really solve a mystery of, you know, what happened to the sea turtle when?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: How did it get here?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Getting to help to make sure that that turtle is comfortable from beginning to end.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have to say, that sounds like some first class flying and accommodations for the turtles.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly is.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they get a lot of attention just from the get-go when they get to the Seattle Aquarium.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we always have experienced turtle staff meet the turtle when it gets to the aquarium as well as experienced veterinarians.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so the first thing is really to determine how sick and injured this turtle is and to treat its initial sickness and injuries right away with the appropriate veterinary care.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Once we get through that hurdle, then we slowly start to warm them.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: No more than two or three degrees Fahrenheit a day because we don't want to shock their system.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people think, oh, this turtle should be in 70, 75 degree water, but right now it's 50 degrees.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you warm them up like within a day, that would also injure their system because it's a too much of a dramatic change.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we slowly warm them up so that things aren't shocked even more.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And as we're warming them up, we're getting them in water as soon as we can.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: When they get to us, they're dry and they're on a piece of foam so that that foam allows them to expand their plastron or the bottom of their shell in order to breathe.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't want them on a hard surface because then they really have to pick up their whole body to breathe.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're on something soft, they can expand and breathe easier.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because these guys are used to being in the water.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we get them in the water as soon as possible.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that water also has to be slowly warmed up so it doesn't shock their system.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it really takes a lot of detailed care, especially in the first few days as we're slowly warming that animal up to the temperature where its systems will function.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: It can eat and things like that, and then it can start to recover better from its injuries and sickness.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a pretty intense amount of care initially.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then once they're semi-stable, they still have to stay at the Seattle aquarium until they're healthy enough to fly.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of these guys are really emaciated because they haven't been eating for months or longer.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so we make sure that they get as much food as they want.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we have the animals gain like 20 pounds when they're with us.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So and they're with us for you know anywhere from three to four months.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then we send them down when they're healthy enough to fly and when they're strong enough to fly and get them down to San Diego where they have plenty of big warm pools.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they're also deep, which really helps because the depth of the pool encourages those sea turtles to dive again, and they're gonna have to dive to get their food in the wild.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Just as you were talking, and you're like, we're feeding them lots of food.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: They might be gaining 20 pounds.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Knowing that one of the things that kind of drives sea turtles potentially to come closer into our shores, they might be munching on things like jellyfish.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: What are we feeding sea turtles when we're rehabbing them?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: What's on the menu for a sea turtle that it can, you know, pack on the pounds and help them to get nice and healthy?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the Seattle Aquarium has been doing sea turtle care and sea turtle rehab for longer than I've been there.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So since the 80s.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we got into it first by doing sea turtle head starts, so taking baby sea turtles and growing them big enough so that when they're released into the wild, they're a little bit bigger than a lot of the predators can eat them.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we were doing that here at the aquarium and then sending them over to Hawaii to be released.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And juvenile sea turtles tend to eat different things than adult sea turtles do.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so the juvenile sea turtles are eating more like little fishes and squid and things like that.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then the adult sea turtles tend to turn to a more vegetarian diet, but they also will eat jellyfish and squid and things like that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we feed them a variety of things at the Seattle Aquarium.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: They like to eat squid, they like to eat small fish like Capelin.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: We fed them small herring, and then we also have left floating pieces of vegetation.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll put in different lettuces and things like that to feed them as well.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's kind of a mixture, but they tend to put on the pounds a little bit quicker if we're feeding them the squid interest.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: I can imagine from the caloric intake alone, that probably has a little bit more sustenance than maybe some lettuce.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, in in the in the wild, the adults are gonna eat, they're mostly algae eaters.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: That might sound pretty tasty for some of us as well.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you mentioned that the work with sea turtles at the Seattle Aquarium started with kind of rearing young turtles.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: How did how did you get involved when you started your time here at the aquarium?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: I also happen to know that you really like sea otters, which are fuzzier, little bit, you know, like I was like more mammal-y, that's not an official term, but very different from a sea turtle.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so, what like how did you get involved with the the sea turtle aspect at the be, you know, kind of at the beginning of your time here?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's a great question.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: When I first I was hired at the Seattle Aquarium in 1995, and my title was Animal Health and Research Coordinator.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time we did not have our own veterinarians.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't hire our own staff veterinarian until 2012.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was my job to liaison between the aquarists, biologists at the aquarium, and our staff veterinarians of Woodland Park Zoo, any health issues that the aquarium animals were having.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I would send in a daily report to the Woodland Park Zoo vets and say, oh, all of our fish are fine, all of our mammals are fine, all of our birds are fine.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or if they're not, we need to schedule a visit.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then they would come visit and determine if any of them needed treatments.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then it was my job because I'm also a licensed veterinary technician to make sure that the medications or treatment was administered and I would document that all in health records, et cetera.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was also supposed to start a research program.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: But so I did both animal health and research, and part of my the animal health duties was to lead the rehabilitation of cold shock sea turtles if we got them in.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this Yellow Aquarium got involved with sea turtles because of that head start program in the 1980s.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then I don't know the story exactly how it's the cold shock sea turtle rehab started, but I imagine somebody found a sea turtle on the Washington coast and probably knew that we were doing the Head Start work and called the Seattle Aquarium and said, Hey, would you take this turtle?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we said yes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was our veterinarians at Woodland Park Zoo that would guide the care of the sea turtle.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then the people that were working in the lab at the time would help with the rehab.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I came in as the animal health and research coordinator.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was over overseeing our lab.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that was just one of the duties, like, oh yeah, if we get a cold shock sea turtle under the direction of the veterinarians, you get to take care of this turtle until it's well enough to go to San Diego.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have any experience with sea turtles at the time, but I had a really good mentor, the vet at the Oldham Park Zoo, who had done it before, and she told me exactly what to do.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we had a sea turtle rehab tub that was designated just for sea turtles, and it was right down there outside of the blue room by the lab.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we got a grant and it was just for sea turtles, and it sat there empty until we got a rehab sea turtle.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think my first year we did get one rehab sea turtle, and then the next year we had two.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so it kind of comes in in waves.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so we would get one and then two and then one, and then we'll have years where we don't get one at all.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, but yeah, it was my first few years there at the aquarium overseeing the animal health.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got to learn how to rehabilitate bullshock sea turtles.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really, was really great.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was really fun.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that's that's pretty cool.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like a little bit of happenstance and uh, you know, and opportunity, right?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I learned that some of it could have boiled down to somebody just saying, yes, you know, yes, like let's help, let's see what we can do.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it did help that I had a background in veterinary care.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I was already a vet veterinary technician and the vets at the zoo were amazing.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and and then when they stopped, then then they had turnover at the Woodland Park Zoo, and they always held the rehab license to rehabilitate the sea turtles, with the Seattle Prime being the place that sea turtles would be rehabilitated.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But when they stopped, had some turnover and stopped holding the license, then I went and got the license.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm the license holder for the state to rehabilitate sea turtles.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have another permit from the U.S.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Fish and Wildlife Service, which lists our all of our veterinarians, our vet techs, as well as myself and other people at the aquarium that have um sea turtle rehab experience.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I knew that.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really cool.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of nice to see that, to see that grow a bit and and blossom and continue to share all that expertise with other folks that have come in through the years.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you said, you know, I also like sea otters.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so because I was the veterinary technician and the lead of rehab at the aquarium, which really meant just sea turtles, when we did get the occasional rehab sea otter pup come in, I got to help care for it.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so over the years, I got to help lead the care of three sea otter pups that were found in the wild.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: The first one was Lutas, and there's a book about her.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she did give birth to many sea otters in human care at the Seattle Aquarium.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was another one from Alaska a few years later.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, she she lived till she was about four or five, and she passed.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Her name was Calypso.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last one was Rialto, who we rescued in 2016, and now he lives up in Vancouver, BC, at the Vancouver Aquarium.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I got to hands-on sea otters, but I also that early experience of raising Lutas really stimulated me to study sea otters and sea otter breeding and genetics.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I went back to school and got my PhD studying sea otter endocrinology and genetics.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, um, I haven't looked back.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done a lot of work with sea otters throughout their range, looking at genetic diversity and effects from the maritime fur trade, as well as watching our beautiful Washington sea otters on our coast and seeing how they recover and and their effects on the ecosystem.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: What don't you do, Sean?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and those rockfish surveys.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and those rockfish surveys.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: We all do the rockfish.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have to save that for a different podcast, perhaps a different lightning talk.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, I do want to know.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've been kind of stealing your time a little bit, asking some of my own questions, but we did get quite a few questions that came in from our audience that was watching the lightning talks.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to make sure we have a moment to loot back to some of those, those folks that might be tuning in.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: But we are going to take a very quick break before we do so.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll be back in just a moment.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Calling all adult ocean lovers, join us at After Hours, the one evening each month when adults take over the Seattle Aquarium.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: At this 21 Plus event, you can experience our habitats at night, taste delicious food and drinks, enjoy special programming, and more.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Find more info, plus upcoming dates and themes at Seattleaquarium.org slash after hours.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now back to the show.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we are back.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go ahead and take a look at some of those audience questions that came in.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: There were some really good ones, some curiosities here.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the first one, I love this because especially if somebody is local here in Washington State or even Oregon, we might be visiting the beach.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: We might come across a cold stunned sea turtle and knowing who to contact is really helpful.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: So we are one of those people, but there are others.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um you had mentioned that there is a second rehab organization in Washington State.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you could tell us who that is, and do you know anything about any in Oregon?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So for the longest time, you know, from the 80s on until the late 2000s, we the Seattle Aquarium was the only official sea turtle rehab center in Washington.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: We were the only licensed facility that could take cold chalk sea turtles and help them.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: But since then, since the late 2000s or the late 2010s, what do you call it?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Since about the last seven or eight years, there's been another, and that is SR3, and that's the Sea Life Response Rehab and Research Organization.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're a nonprofit that responds to marine mammal strandings, but also to cold shock uh sea turtles.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they're in Des Moines, and they have that's all they do is rehab.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, unlike the Seattle Aquarium, where we have habitats and do education and other research, their whole goal is to rehabilitate sea life that needs help.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the one other one in Washington.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to have extra capacity because, like I mentioned earlier in my lightning talk, as well as this podcast, is that each sea turtle that comes in takes a lot of care and effort to get it well again and well enough to fly down to San Diego to be released off of the Southern California warm waters.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So SR3 is a great resource and we partner closely with them.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other in Oregon is the Oregon Coast Aquarium, and they've been in the sea turtle rehab fields since they opened.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they opened in in the mid-90s.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're also a great facility that has a lot of experience.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So our relationship with the Oregon Coast Aquarium generally is if a sea turtle strands in Oregon, the Oregon Coast Aquarium will take it on to rehabilitate it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's a sea turtle strands in Washington, we will, we or SR3 will take it on and rehabilitate it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're overwhelmed, because it's one of those years that we have more than two or three, and we just don't have the capacity to do the level of care that we need to do for each animal, then we'll call up Oregon Coast Aquarium and say, hey, do you guys have a turtle right now?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you have capacity to take this turtle?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll do the same for us with us.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if there are a lot stranding in Oregon versus Washington for whatever reason, one year, then they'll call us and we will also take a sea turtle that strands in Oregon.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're a collective and we all help each other.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was saying it makes me feel really good that we've got a little bit, a little bit more of a network now working together to help out all those turtles.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, speaking of all those rehab turtles, I think in your lightning talk, you mentioned how many that you have rehabbed, you know, since kind of we started that program here at the Seattle Aquarium.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And some folks were also just wondering like how many have come in, how many were successful, and how many, maybe unfortunately, did we lose during the same time frame?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think um I was gonna pull up PowerPoint.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think overall the Seattle Aquarium has seen 29.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 29 sea turtles come through our door.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Usually, so some of them are dead on arrival, so they don't make it through.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're either dead when they get to us or they don't make it through the first night.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it's it's usually it's not very many.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about maybe 10% don't make it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if we get them to live through that first night, and we do, we spend the whole night with them.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're monitoring their breathing and their heart rate and everything else like that.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a veterinarian right there to give medications.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd say we have a 90% success.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Rate, but we have lost some, you know, that don't make it through the night.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was looking at, you know, some years the Pacific Northwest has a lot of stranded sea turtles, most of which are dead.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So some years there's 20 plus, but in recent years in Washington, we've only been getting between one and four strandings a year.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the most that we've received in any year is two.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it actually has hasn't been that high recently.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we we just received one dead on arrival this year.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last one that came in live was for us, was in 2021.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hopefully that's indicative of a good thing that they're they're simply staying on route and that they're they're staying with.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: They in the warm water.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: But they stay in the warm water, and that it's it's always it's always a good thing if the if the sea turtles aren't making their way to our shores as as cool as they are, but just means that we might have to go somewhere else to see them.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So thinking about you mentioned like that first night, that first 24 hours, really critical.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we've talked about just how much care goes into getting them like back up in good condition, potentially ready for travel.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: About how long does that take?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody was wondering like, how long does it take for them to be out of danger?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is that dependent on the species?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Are there other factors that vary in that process, or is there an average?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: There tends to be an average for us for sure.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: It we tend to keep them for the long term to make sure that they're not sick anymore and that they've gained adequate weight so that when then when they get down to San Diego, they're in good shape and that flight just doesn't phase them at all.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's generally between one and three months, and it doesn't depend on the species, it depends on the individual and how sick they were when they got here.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: So some individuals we've had in the past are really sick and injured.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, and they have cracked shells, they have to have surgery on flippers, things like that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so they have to, they have to heal before they they go down.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are the ones that we keep sometimes even more than three months.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: But the average is about between one and three months just to get over whatever injuries they have, healed up, and then put on some pounds before they go on that flight.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Our next set of questions, I think, sort of go hand in hand and fast forward to the the end of the journey where we're looking at releasing them because when we release them, we're likely putting trackers on them as well to kind of watch where they go.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we had one question that was about do we know how much longer like they're living for after releasing them?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was a question also just about the tracker itself.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, does the tracker fall off?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, how is it adhered to the animal?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think those two questions kind of they they the the answer They're hand in hand.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the answer goes with both of them.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So in recent, so in the last 15 years, our policy has been since we're putting so much effort into rehabilitating these animals when we are successful and we send them down to San Diego to be released.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: We will not, we don't want them to go without some way to track them because we do want to track their progress and make sure that they're doing well when they leave us.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we partner with wildlife computers.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: The satellite tags are expensive and we don't have a huge budget for this.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we usually get some of the tags that are less expensive, long story short.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: When we put them on the turtle, we can track them as long as the battery lasts.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's usually just a year or two.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it depends on, you know, how you program the tag to, you know, how often it's going to send signals to the satellite.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you, if the fewer signals it sends, the longer the battery lasts.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the longest we've tracked a sea turtle has been 18 months.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we do attach the satellite tags to the top of their shells with a non-toxic epoxy.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it does fall off.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we have had tags fall off within just a couple months of release.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we think that they are doing fine because the track was showing us a steady movement down the, you know, Baja Peninsula into warmer and warmer waters.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there was nothing to suggest that the animal wasn't doing well, but all of a sudden, you know, because they do tend to sleep underneath rock ledges and things like that.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're bumping it and it just fell off.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we don't want to put any really strong stuff on the turtle or something that might damage its skin.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: It if it stays on there, we can get, you know, 18 months to two years.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't stay on, then it's just how active that turtle has been.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: We I feel like the answer is we may never know.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also really like just even in hearing you say, you know, like you can see some of the turtles like making their way down south.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also just it's really rewarding to know that like the turtles are like getting back on the right track.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And but we we will never know unnecessarily how much longer that turtle lived after that particular venture, and just hopefully we don't run into them again, right?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of our partners, Vancouver Aquarium, they also they'll sometimes send their cold shock turtles down to us as a staging place down to Seattle for at least a week before both turtles, our turtle and their turtle, get on the plane to San Diego.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And one of their green state turtles, they put a satellite tag on, actually was showing her going back up north.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, turn around.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was off of Oregon when it stopped transmitting and we're like, no, no, don't.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know you had a good time up here, but please stay down there in the warmer waters.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there is a warm water current, you know, a couple hundred miles off of our shores that is warm enough for sea turtles.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if they stay in that current, they're fine.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think it's just some of them just find their way out of that current into colder waters and then they become cold shocked.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then if they're lucky, they make it to the shore alive and somebody will pick them up.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, to sort of bring us full circle and knowing that we do not have all the time in the world, I'm really curious about this last question because I have been here to see a couple of sea turtles come through our doors, and I'm I'm I'm wondering if one of them might be the answer to this next question.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that question is is there a specific sea turtle that was really memorable to you?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, did you have a favorite?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I certainly the the the last one that was always the one that's near and dear to my heart, I guess, because it's you know, it's kind of like you're it's just the last one's the best one, the last pet's the best pet, you know, and all that kind of stuff.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Shishai, a male Olive Ridley, that was our last live turtle to come to us from Shyshai Beach near near near Bay.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he was he was found on the beach by the Macaw tribe, and they called us and the stranding network, and then we eventually got a local airplane company, Wright Brothers, to fly him out of because of course it was winter, and they actually some of the road that was going out there was washed away.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So they he flew from Port Angeles to Nea Bay to pick up the turtle and then flew from Nea Bay to Seattle to deliver the turtle to us.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Shai Shy was just, you know, there were just so many people involved in getting that animal from the beach to the Seattle aquarium for care.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: He was very memorable.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the one that really kind of the other one that really sticks in my mind, and this one was I think back in 2016, or 2015, 2016 season is that, and that is Tucker.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this turtle had almost every medical procedure done, and it's it was because he had a buoyancy issue, and he had everything from ultrasounds to CAT scans to MRIs.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: He even took a ride in the chamber at Virginia Mason.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say he went into the decompression chamber, didn't he?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: He went into the decompression chamber to try and because we we think that there was some trapped air underneath his shell between his his shell and his body cavity.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so trying to figure all this out, and he was just a character.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: He would just zoom around his little tub, and he had a very, very itchy, I guess, plaster on our shell.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And he would love to have his back scratched with your feeding the feeding stick and just whip around.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And but he was he was a lot of work.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, a lot of work.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: We had to breathe for him for for three days or else he would have passed, and then all the medical, all the medical procedures to try and get him better.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then when he went down to San Diego, we kept him in a pool that was only three feet deep, because at the time that was our biggest pool, was three feet deep, and I think 12 feet, 12 to 16 feet in diameter.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: But he went into a really big pool or habitat down in San Diego where it was 20 feet deep.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And once he was able to dive down, then he he his buoyancy issues, they were cured.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was just depth, which is what the chamber was trying to do, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe he just wasn't in the chamber long enough.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have to say, Tuck Tucker is my my favorite.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just because it was like seeing so much, just so much like passion and care to like get this turtle through and then to have it be a success.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Really, it just felt like this huge win for Tucker.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think it's really cool that you can put a sea turtle in a decompression chamber, you know, like I like things you just I was like, that's a thing you can do.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and like passing by people that were, like you said, helping Tucker breathe.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like in the morning, you know, you'd see somebody being like, We're just helping Tucker breathe, like great, you know.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of a lot of effort into Tucker.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And Tucker was one of the ones that we did the track with a satellite tag, and and Tucker transmitted for I think over a year and was going down to Baja.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yay, Tucker.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Probably still out there, hopefully making a lot of sea turtle babies.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Little resilient sea turtle babies.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And on that note, I think I probably could sit here and talk to you for at least like another hour or so about sea turtles, but we are at that point.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but we do have to come to an end of this episode of Lightning Strikes Twice.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sean, it was really a delight to be able to sit here and talk with you all about turtles for change.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I've ever sat and talked to you about sea turtles.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm wondering if there's, you know, is Carrie.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're very welcome.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, if people want to learn more about anything or like stuff that you're doing, anywhere you want to direct folks to find out more information.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, go to our website and we have a conservation research page and you can learn all about the cool conservation research that we're doing at the Seattle Aquarium, everything from sea otters to sharks to rockfish to kelp ecosystems, marine solutions.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, check out our website and come visit the aquarium because we do have some interpretive signs about the work that we do.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we also have a lot of people on the floor that know all the cool work that we're doing in the conservation field.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please do come and ask us questions.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I did want to just ask, I hear there's a book that you might.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, yes.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not about sea turtles, but you know.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I recently published my second book on sea otters, and it's called Sea Otter Conservation 2, following up Sea Otter Conservation One, that was published in 2015.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So this book came out just last year, 2025, and it's all about what we've learned about sea otters as they've recovered from near extinction due to the maritime fur trade.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So sea otters are about 50% recovered.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um we've learned so much about their role in the near shore ecosystem and how special they are.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're not only cute, but they are ecosystem drivers.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they, wherever they are, the ecosystem is more diverse and more resilient to climate change.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we're we're learning not only in kelp forests that they do this, but also in eogras and salt marshes and pretty much wherever sea otters are, the ecosystem is better.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been it's it's a great book if you want to learn all about sea otters and their recovery and what we've learned.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Sean, so much for everything that you do for the otters and the turtles.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you all to the listener joining us today.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: We appreciate you.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Keep an eye out for our next regular lightning talks.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: And remember that you can watch any past episodes on the Aquarium's YouTube channel as well.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, stay curious, everyone.