Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 391—Italian, test waiver. Solid profile, Tuck invite. Brazilian, EA test.

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MBA Wire Taps 391—Italian, test waiver. Solid profile, Tuck invite. Brazilian, EA test. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, October 28, 2024. For more than 100 years, Emory University's Goetta Business School has been a training ground for principal and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic global city. More at Emory Biz clearadmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 1:05
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: Still no signs of Halloween or anything where you're at?
• 1:10
  Speaker B: No, but I assume by the time we record, well, by the time this podcast is published, Halloween will be all over the place. But yeah, yeah, a little bit quieter this part of the world.
• 1:21
  Speaker A: All right, what's going on with NBA admissions? I know, you know, last week was a big week with the Wharton invites coming out, but what else has been happening?
• 1:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, we're recording this just before those interview invites come out. So if everything goes according to schedule, Wharton invites have come out Thursday of last week and you know, that's a, you know that, that will be a big day. On on Livewire. Booth released all its interview invites not last week, but, but, but the week before, but then released all those that weren't invited to interview on, on Monday of last week. There's just lots of sort of interview activity going on on the wires which makes, you know, reminds us that, you know, our interview archive is a fantastic resource. We're actually seeing quite a few reports coming in from candidates that have already interviewed, posting their interview experience. So that's really great to see sort of candidates giving back to the community and so forth. But yeah, I think our interview archive is a fantastic resource for folks to take advantage in terms of what's coming up this week, the week ahead. Johnson's going to release some interview invites and we've got application deadlines for Mirage side Smith and Washington. Olin McDonough is going to release its early action decision. So lots of activity still ongoing.
• 2:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, sounds like it. You know, it's interesting this year, I don't remember it being this way last year, but Chicago Booth, they did a couple of waves of interest, interview invitations which feel similar to the past. You know, they had a couple of days where they're giving out all these invites and then we had the weekend and then Monday came and then they just rejected everyone who hadn't been invited. And I thought, wow, all those people were kind of waiting over the weekend, which seems hard to me.
• 3:14
  Speaker B: I actually do think they did that last year. Oh, really? Memory serves. I do sort of remember to a couple of waves and then a little gap and then a release.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, I guess they're. Yeah, maybe just making sure that they've got everyone they want and then they, you know, finally set. Set those free who are no longer in the running in any event. Definitely good advice from you about our interview archive. It's free. I mean, you have to register on the site, but that's free. And then you can see. I mean, there are dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of reports for each of these top schools. So it's a great place to go to practice because you can get lists of questions that were asked and just hear how people experience their interview. So very good stuff. We have events galore coming up in November and December. There are actually two waves of events, although they're largely for people who still in undergrad. So the first event is for deferred enrollment. So this is, you know, college juniors, seniors looking ahead, thinking about getting an MBA. And so we're going to sit down on November 6th with Columbia, Harvard, Chicago and Yale. And then a week later on November 13, we're going to sit down with Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon, Wharton, uva and Stanford. You can sign up right now for those events at Bit Ly Ca Defer mba. So you can do that now. Those are always popular. Obviously, as I said last week, such a fun thing to be able to lock in a spot at a top MBA program and then go off and work a couple of years before you join business school did not exist when I was applying along those lines. We're doing another set of events in December for master's in management programs. And again, these are largely pre experience programs. I mean, you can have like a year of experience, I think, or maybe two, but it's largely targeting people who are coming right out of undergrad or have just finished another master's. And so we're going to sit down with admissions folks from those programs. We've got Duke, Emory and Notre Dame on December 3rd and then Chicago Booth, Carnegie Mellon, Georgetown, Indiana Kelly and Michigan Ross on December 4th. And again, a short link is bit ly camim24. And that's just the numbers 2 and 4. So sign up now for those events. If you are a college Student or current grad student, thinking about either a deferred MBA or directly heading into a master's in management. So, yeah, lots of stuff coming, Alex.
• 5:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good. Lots of activity.
• 5:36
  Speaker A: Now, we did Peggy, who writes on our team, she. She wrote a deep dive on the M7 business schools and why they matter. So she did this kind of investigative reporting piece on, like, what. What are the M7? What does the M stand for? What, you know, what's the history? Has there ever been different schools in the M7 or has it always been the same 7? So it's a fascinating read. I mean, it comes. The deans of these schools used to get together. They continue to do so twice a year. And yeah, it's just kind of interesting to read and to hear kind of what the little things they're doing together to kind of keep themselves at the top of the heap kind of thing. But for those of you who don't know, the M7, some say it's magnificent, some say it's magical, I think. But it's seven schools. Harvard, Stanford, Wharton. What is it? Columbia, Kellogg, mit. And who am I? Chicago. Right. So those are the seven, if I'm not getting it wrong, Alex, Is that right?
• 6:38
  Speaker B: Yeah. Did you say Kellogg? But yeah, I did. Those are the seven. But yeah, it's. It's. I mean, obviously I worked at Wharton, you know, I don't know now, 12, 12 years ago or whatever it was when I left. Probably longer than that. I can't remember. But I mean, the M7's been the same. M7.
• 6:54
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 6:55
  Speaker B: For the. For the history of MBA admission. And just to be very clear, yeah, they might meet twice a year, share strategy and do all that kind of stuff, but they absolutely don't share applicant data.
• 7:08
  Speaker A: Oh, no, no.
• 7:10
  Speaker B: Et cetera, et cetera. So, yes, there is strategic insight and sharing at the top level, but that would be it. But yeah, those are the top seven programs. Again, when I see all these rankings coming out and a couple of the M7 are at the tail end of the top 20, it makes sense to me.
• 7:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, it is odd. Is there like a secret handshake when you go to those meetings that they have, or. No.
• 7:35
  Speaker B: You know, I think I was supposed to go to one of those meetings once when we were born. Or it could have been a big ten meeting. I mean, there's a ten school group two that's possible. M7 group, maybe the M7s at the dean level and the ten school groups at the admissions director level or whatever. Whatever the issues are.
• 7:55
  Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, interesting.
• 7:56
  Speaker B: A bit of a nudge and a wink.
• 7:59
  Speaker A: All right, so otherwise we did also on the website, run an admissions tip about unusual interview practices. And, you know, I know last week we talked about kind of group interviews, which I would argue is kind of an unusual interview practice too. But this tip that we ran is about other kind of weird stuff that you can encounter. So one of them is, you know, a school that like has you write an essay after your interview. That would be Harvard. Other is a school right across town from Harvard that asks you to write some essays right prior to the interview. So you get an interview invitation and along with that invite comes some extra work in the form of essays. That's MIT that does that. We've talked in the past about how LBS has a presentation that you have to do. Like, they'll give you a quick topic in the middle of the interview, send you off for five minutes to think about it, and then you come back and make a quick, you know, sort of presentation on your views on a subject. And it's never hard, but they just want to see how you kind of think on your feed and present information or a thought process. INSEAD and HEC and France both have two interviews, which is somewhat unusual. So there's all this stuff in the admissions tip that we posted on how to handle these different or unusual practices that we see with some programs. So it's a fun read, just because schools get pretty creative.
• 9:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm actually a big fan of some of these quirks. I really like the LBS approach, asking the candidates to speak to a certain topic and giving them just a little bit of time to prepare. But I wonder what safeguards they've now put in place for the folks going off and just using ChatGPT to get the pros and the cons to the point, because that's a real obvious use case for Gen AI.
• 9:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point. And I think, obviously when you're doing the interview in person, not an issue because you're with the interviewer while you're prepping. But yeah, if they do virtual, that could be. And I know, I think we've talked about it, but there's a school, Kimmer, which one it is, who basically does these online interview questions as a part of their, you know, kind of video questions or whatever you want to call them. And this year, for the first time, they. They lowered the amount of time that you have to think through and answer the questions. You used to have 90 seconds or something. Now you have only 30 because they found that 90 seconds gave people enough time to type the prompt into ChatGPT, come up with an answer, and then record themselves, you know, reading from that, essentially. So they've tried to eliminate that. But you're right, it's a real. It's a real issue.
• 10:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, Great. I'm a huge fan of Gen AI, so I'll figure it out.
• 10:38
  Speaker A: I'm kind of laughing too, because I'm actually doing a presentation at a GMAC conference in Europe about how schools are using AI in the office. I'm really looking forward to this. And I'm about, I don't know, three fourths of the way through my slides as we record here, but it's just been fascinating. And I've. I mean, this is. Well, don't tell anyone, but I've been relying very heavily on generative AI to actually help me make my presentation and to go through the data that I've gathered. And so it's been kind of a presentation about AI in which I'm using AI everywhere I can on purpose, you know, just sort of.
• 11:11
  Speaker B: And it's quite clear that you can use Gen AI to assess a candidate's profile. So how schools are using Gen AI in their assessment process will be very interesting.
• 11:25
  Speaker A: Oh, that's interesting.
• 11:26
  Speaker B: But I mean, I've done some grading work and I use Gen AI to help me with my grading. I asked Gen AI, you know, here's the topic, here's the response. Please summarize the response and identify two key strengths in the response and two key weaknesses in the response.
• 11:45
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 11:45
  Speaker B: And then I can use that, those strengths and weaknesses to then review the work directly. And it just really helps.
• 11:53
  Speaker A: So, I mean, not to, like, let the cat out of the bag because I'm giving this presentation, you know, in. In late November, but I want everyone listening to know that so far, none of the schools that I've been surveying, that we surveyed as a part of this project are using AI in that way to read files or offer kind of assessments. But when we asked them about the future and where they think this may all be going, many of them did say they could see a scenario where this could be used in the assessment process. So you're. Yeah.
• 12:25
  Speaker B: To be quite honest, it shouldn't affect the candidate. Right. If you're using Gen AI effectively, and I think my approach is reasonably decent, then again, it provides a fair, more standardized assessment of the candidacy when you're using different people. I think the ADCOMs are more a threat here because now you really don't need the same number of readers, et cetera, et cetera, when each reader uses a tool like this to be more effective in their review process. So really, really interesting stuff.
• 12:59
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's a whole bunch. We could probably have an entire show talking about AI and the ramifications and things. But yeah, you know, you're making some good points and it's. Yeah, it's fascinating. I'm kind of off of just thinking the fact that, well, if the applicants are writing the essays with AI and then the AI is reading the essays on the other end, you know, maybe we don't need anybody. Just the computers can kind of get together and make all these decisions. Yeah.
• 13:21
  Speaker B: Always remembering that the quality of the essay is a reflection of the quality of the candidate. Right.
• 13:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:29
  Speaker B: So. So you can't use AI to make up your profile.
• 13:33
  Speaker A: Right, Right.
• 13:33
  Speaker B: Your profile is a function of the quality of your experiences to date, et cetera, et cetera. So even if AI is helping you write your Prof. Your, your, your essays, et cetera, those essays are still based on your life experiences, Right? AI can't create that.
• 13:52
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. That's fair. So speaking of life, we continue to do those real humans pieces on the website where we connect with students at all the top programs. And so there are three more schools that checked in this week with a batch of students from each school. So I want to read a few quotes first. We talked to students at Emory Goswetta and you're going to love some of these.
• 14:13
  Speaker B: Oh, stop here. Yeah, our sponsor, Emre gosw.
• 14:17
  Speaker A: That's right. Yes, Emory is a sponsor for this show. But this is amazing. We talked to a bunch of students and I'm going to read you a quote from Aurora, who is from Cold Spring, New York, went to Harvard undergrad, worked at Bain before business school, but also spent eight years as a professional race car driver and is continuing to do that while pursuing the NBA. So on weekends is off, you know, racing. And so we asked Aurora, what do you think is your most valuable or differentiating contribution to the class of 26? And she said, perspective. Once another driver pushes you into a concrete wall at 175 miles per hour, normal life slows down. Because life or death is my baseline. I have discovered that I'm very calm during otherwise stressful situations. My friends joke that Harvard was my low stakes escape from the stresses of motorsports. Over time I have found that being a stress absorber is infectious. Friends who are frustrated with work or relationships come to me looking for balanced, calm reactions. So that's a. I mean, what an incredible. I mean, it's just really interesting kind of prior and pre MBA experience.
• 15:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, I don't have much to say about that. That's pretty incredible.
• 15:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And there's a photo. There's a photo. You can't see this on the podcast, but there's a photo of her on the page where her profile is, you know, on the Real Humans page. And she's in full on. She's next to her car with the helmet, everything. It's. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 15:47
  Speaker B: I could imagine.
• 15:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. That's just. I love these profiles because you just find some really interesting people. Similarly, we move over to Vanderbilt Owen, where Abby Sparrow, who's originally from Nashville, went to Duke undergrad and worked both in finance at Wells Fargo, but then popped over to a media job with amc, the TV channel, but doing strategic finance for them. So that was kind of her pre MBA profile. And we asked her, what is the one thing you would absolutely do again as part of your application process? And Abby says, self reflection. Everyone asked me why I wanted to pursue an mba, including friends and family, and pretty much every day still in coffee chats and interviews. And I wanted to answer. I wanted my answer to be authentic and make sense. So I sat and I wrote out my why. This was a guiding light for me throughout the application process. Additionally, I would recommend talking to current students. No one can speak to the student experience better than them. So that. That's very consistent. Right. With the stuff that we advise. But I thought Abby had some good advice there.
• 16:55
  Speaker B: It is. And it again, gets back to my point, Graham. We need these real humans pieces to train our bot. Yes. Because at the end of the day, that type of experience you want to learn about, you know, candidates experience, these different schools to really make your determination what the culture is like, et cetera, et cetera.
• 17:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:19
  Speaker B: So brilliant.
• 17:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then the last person we talked to was Matt, who's currently a student at the MBA program at Boston College, the Carroll School of Management. Matt is from Titusville, New Jersey, which, I don't know if you're aware of this, Alex, but that's right around where Washington made his crossing way back when. And he went to Elon College and then served five years in the Navy as a surface warfare officer. He also, on the side, started a company that is called the Clean Shave. And they make this product that I had to go down the rabbit hole, make this product that you basically pushed your razor into, your classic razor into, that cleans the blade of your razor, and that doesn't require you to fill the sink and dip every time you're shaving. So anyway, it's a water saver and it's high pressure, so it. Anyway, a very interesting product, but we asked him, why did you choose Boston College? And he said, the Carroll School of Management is known for its strength in data analytics. And I know you and I have talked about that many moons ago, but he also then went on to say it's also known for its incredibly strong and very loyal network. I knew this firsthand as my girlfriend went to BC undergrad. It was also a school that offers 100% yellow ribbon GI bill coverage, which was a must for me. So a number of reasons that Matt is at Boston College, but also has his side gig that they did. I think they did a GoFundMe or Kickstarter and actually have this thing is coming out. So he's. Yeah, he's got a lot going on, but. Interesting guy.
• 18:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, it sounds really cool. I have to look up the shaving thing. I just had a shave before our podcast. Not that anyone can see.
• 18:57
  Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, it's an interesting product and I think they raised well beyond the amount that they needed to. So I think it's coming out soon. So there you have it. We still. Speaking of products and things, we still need reviews for this show. I know that we have a bunch of people who listen weekend and week out, but it'd be great if you can take a moment, particularly on Apple where they allow you to write reviews. Spotify, I think you can just provide a rating, but those are helpful as well. So the more people that review or rate the show really helps others to discover us. So please continue to spread the word or just tell everyone you know. You can also write to us@infolearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps. Alex, anything else before we talk about our three candidates this week?
• 19:40
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 19:41
  Speaker A: All right, so this is Wiretaps candidates number one. So our first candidate this week is looking to start business school in the fall of 25. They have nine schools on the target list, and those schools are Carnegie Mellon, Duke, Emory, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Carlson, Kellogg, nyu, and Vanderbilt. This person's been working in private equity more in kind of operations role. I think they actually clarified this somewhere in the notes, but they said that they basically do fund management and operations with a PE fund. They're thinking about getting into consulting, but specifically would love to do kind of consulting to private equity. Organizations. So that's a kind of specific goal. GPA is 3.3 from undergraduate. They have seven years of work experience currently located in Spain, and they would love to land in Chicago, New York, or potentially back in Europe. They did mention in the notes that they took the GRE and scored a 295, but as a result of that, because they knew that score was low, they went ahead and tried to get waivers. And they've been offered waivers at some of the business schools. They feel that the 295 is not representative of their academic ability. They have a BA in Business Economics as well as a master's in Quantitative Economics from a public Italian university. I believe this candidate might be Italian, actually, in terms of their origin. And they said they're not planning to take the test again due to some personal and work issues. And they know that that puts them at disadvantage and that means they can't apply to some of the top schools. But, Alex, what do you make of this candidate? Because it seems like somebody with interesting work experience. They're from Europe, whether it's Spain or Italy, I'm not 100% sure. But, you know, not a common candidate. And GPA seems fine, especially if they have the master's degree, too. But what do you make of this? Because, you know, gre, and it's just sort of an interesting quandary.
• 21:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think they're from Italy, and I think there's lots of positive attributes for this program of this candidate, but they're not going to maximize their opportunity in MBA admissions. Yes, likely they will get a spot or two in the schools that they're targeting, but this decision to not, you know, retake the gre, et cetera, et cetera, I think is going back far on them because their goals, you know, to execute well on their goals, you need to get into the best, you know, program that you can qualify for. So I would really advise them strongly to knuckle down and blow the GRE out the ballpark. Come back because. Because I asked them this question and they said they think they could get a GRE between 323, 330. Yeah. Come back with that GRE score. With everything else that you're representing. Coming from Italy, you're not overrepresented. Quite an interesting profile overall. Probably top 16 type, M7 type profile, but right now that's just not really going to be the case.
• 23:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with you. It's kind of unfortunate. I was really surprised when you said, oh, what do you think you could get on the test and they said oh, 323 30. And yeah, I just feel like they're leaving something on the table and I mean even look, the round two deadlines are still months away. Right. And so they could in theory, I mean they may have other things that are getting in the way, but I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it is interesting because you see someone with seemingly interesting work experience and plenty of it. They've got a couple of degrees already, good scores. They're business oriented degrees from undergrad and masters. And they also mentioned they have, they do some nonprofit work, volunteering. They're really into tracking football and cooking. This is a well rounded candidate who would add a lot to a class and probably could get into a Wharton or you know, wherever, you know, whatever top school they, they may want to go to if they could get that score. So it's a really odd choice.
• 23:55
  Speaker B: And they've got a master's in analytical economics or some, some weird sounding degree but I mean clearly they're not, they're smart.
• 24:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:05
  Speaker B: So knuckle down and get your best score and go to the best program that your profile should represent. I just think they're underselling, they're going to underserved themselves with their strategy.
• 24:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, one last thing I was going to say is that if they're thinking of staying in Europe potentially because they do say oh, New York, Chicago or maybe Europe. I mean it's interesting they don't have any European schools on the list. And so London Business School comes to mind obviously insead. I mean there are other schools in Europe that could help them. So. Yeah, I'm a little puzzled. I mean I think this person, as you said, clearly very smart and could go to a top school. And that's not to disparage the schools on their list, it's just that they're basically dropping down several tiers in order to get these test waivers and not have submit a test. So yeah, it's just a shame.
• 24:54
  Speaker B: And I also, to that point though, I don't know how realistic their goals would be at some of these schools relative to the schools they could be targeting with a more competitive GRE score that they have told us they think they can get.
• 25:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, very interesting case. And it just goes to show you that people will do anything to not take one of these tests or to avoid having to like really buckle down. And it's just interesting. There's this real, you know, when we ask admissions officers what's the one part of the admissions process that you would skip at your own school if you were applying, if you could. You know, they almost routinely will say, taking a test. So whatever. There's an aversion to these tests. I don't know why that is. I mean, they're not fun. But, you know, it's. I remember thinking that while prepping for the GMAT that I actually refreshed myself on some skills that ultimately proved useful once I got to business school with the math camp and all the things you need to do to get ready for the core course curriculum. But anyway, yeah, so our message to this person is rethink your plan. Go take the test again and apply to some other schools. But we'll see where. Where. Where things land. I do want to thank them for sharing their profile and hope that everything works out. But let's move on, Alex, and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our next candidate, also targeting the fall of 25, just has six schools on the target list. And those schools are Berkeley, Dartmouth, Duke, Georgia Tech, UCLA, and uva. This person's been working in banking, and they actually want to pivot and get into consulting after business school. They have Bain, McKinsey as two firms that they mention in terms of targets. Post MBA, they scored a 324 on the GRE and they have a 3.64 undergraduate GPA. They've been working for five years. Years. And I believe that they applied in round one. So they're kind of now in the waiting game. And they don't have any news yet other than the fact that Tuck did invite them for an interview. So, Alex, what do you make of this candidate?
• 27:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think this candidate is strong. I mean, we don't actually know the quality and the impact of their work experience, quite frankly. I mean, I asked them that question. When they responded, they didn't really address that. But let's assume that their work experience is decent. Five years, et cetera, et cetera. If they're doing something outside of work, that's quite interesting, too. That would obviously add another dimension to their overall profile. But they've got a 3.64 GPA. That's going to be competitive. Their GRE is certainly close to or at the median for these schools that they're targeting. So I would think that they probably have a pretty decent chance. They've got a pretty nice spread of schools that they're targeting, too, so they're not being overly ambitious. I don't think they already have an interview invite from toc, but. But that's really not such a strong signal because, you know, if you apply, I think in round one or early for talk, you're almost guaranteed an interview. So. But, but yeah, I mean at the end of the day I think that this is probably quite, quite a decent profile and the target schools aren't overly ambitious, Graham. So I wish them luck. It'd be nice if we just knew a little bit more about the quality of that experience that they've had to date.
• 28:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean the thing for me that I struggle with this candidate is so they applied to six schools in round one and then they mentioned in the note that they have like five more schools that they're thinking of applying to in round two, like Yale, Ross, Terry Marshall and Emory. Right. So they mentioned they're going to add all these schools potentially, but I just feel like I don't have enough information about like, well, what are their outside activities? Where are they from? As you say, what's the quality of that banking experience? I mean, is this candidate in the U.S. are they somewhere else? Like we don't have some of the key pieces of the puzzle and so it's just hard to give them a lot of advice. But as you say, they have a great spread of schools in that first batch that they applied to and the numbers are good enough, I would think, to get into at least the back end of the schools that they're kind of looking at on both the round one and round two lists. So we'll see where the chips fall. But yeah, it would be good to know more. Things could go so many ways in terms of the amount of information we don't have. But yeah, yeah, but I like their.
• 29:38
  Speaker B: Application strategy because again, nice spread in round one. They've already picked out targets for round two. So if they are successful in round one at their top end, they can aim for some of those top end in their targets for round two.
• 29:53
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:53
  Speaker B: If they're less successful, they can adjust, but they've already identified again another nice spread of programs for round two. So I think the strategy is good.
• 30:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, makes a lot of sense. I think they in both those rounds, you're right, they have kind of a spread and yeah, they should adjust accordingly as they go forward because there could be things at stake like scholarship dollars and all that. So yeah, hopefully they'll update us further. They did engage with you in some comments on the post, so hopefully they'll answer some more questions and give us more background or at least let us know how things turn out. We're rooting for them. They already have that invite at tux. Hopefully more good news to come. Let's move on though and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate this week is also looking to start in the fall of 25 and has five schools on the target list and those schools are Columbia, Cornell, Duke, NYU and uva Darden. This person's been working in equity research. I believe they are located in Brazil and, and they want to get into investment banking after business school and so they name drop a bunch of firms. Bank of America, Barclays, Citibank, Goldman, JP Morgan, rbc. I mean the list goes on in terms of places they may want to work. Now they indicated their GPA was a 3.0, but we later learned that it's from an engineering school in Brazil and actually is a 7.5 out of 10, which we feel. I know you and I talked about this before we came on is better than a 3.0 sounds right. And will be viewed as being better than that. So they have five years of experience to date and you'll notice there's no test score listed and that's because they didn't take the GMAT or the gre. Instead they took the executive assessment and they scored a 165 on that exam. Very high score. But Alex, what do you make of this? Because they, you know, again, just like our first casual candidate, they didn't take one of the tests that some of the top schools would have required. So their list of targets is shaped a bit by their testing strategy. But what do you make of this candidacy?
• 32:01
  Speaker B: I mean again, I think that's, I'm not saying naive, but I just wonder what the thinking is behind that. Right. So you're effectively by only taking the ea, the executive assessment, which was designed for executive MBA program admissions. Right. Quite frankly it wasn't designed for full time admissions, but some schools do accept it. But by taking that test you've already narrowed your potential list of target schools. So if they'd have taken a gmat, got an equivalent score or the GRE got an equivalent score, I mean I, I'd see that Wharton should be on their list, etc, etc, so there might be some other opportunities. I've no doubt this is probably a very high quality candidates with engineering degree, they've already got a couple of invites, interview invites and applicants from Brazil. Again, it's not an overly represented country, etc. Etc. So I would imagine that they'll do well in the admissions process, but they've potentially limited their opportunity at some Other programs that might have been a better fit or whatever. It might, might have been because they chose to take the executive assessment test and not the GMAT or gre.
• 33:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we can see. I'm sensing that they're a high quality candidate and being viewed as such by the schools that they've targeted because they already have a couple of interview invitations. Cornell, they mentioned, approved their GMAT waiver. So schools are interested in this candidate, which to me goes to show that, that. Yeah. Had they taken one of the main tests, they probably could have a wider range of programs on offer to them. Could they get into investment banking from the schools on their target? Sure. I mean, they've got Columbia, Cornell, Stern. I mean these, these are schools noted for their strengths in, in that domain. So they, they may be fine in the end. But, but we'll see. I mean, it's, it's interesting and they, they do seem to indicate that they have other stuff going for them, which again, I think is what, what schools are picking up on in terms of, you know, they've got a bunch of hobbies and interests. They did a year or so of military service. Maybe that's required in Brazil. I'm not sure. But in any event, yeah, strong candidate. It's just interesting how the testing choice is again determining sort of school selection which we saw with our first candidate today.
• 34:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, pre Covid, it was very straightforward. You take the GMAT and possibly all the gre. Nowadays it's just become a complete. But I think that it distracts candidates. Right. If, if, if schools were consistent and required one or two tests across all the top schools, then, you know, I think that would be better for candidates generally because then they would focus on exactly what they need to do. Now they've got. Some of the programs allow for waivers, some of the programs allow for the EA test, some of the programs allow for the MCAT or the LSAT or some other test that you might have taken for some. One completely different reason. And it's potentially created some confusion, I think, in the admissions space.
• 35:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, don't get me going on this subject. I'll get up on the soapbox. I mean, I really think that the schools have kind of done themselves a little bit of a disservice by, for the degree itself. You know, you don't see medical schools saying, hey, you know, oh, you don't want to take the mcat, just take some other test, that's fine. You know, similarly, like with law school, I don't think, I mean, maybe I'M wrong, but I don't think that law schools are, you know, happy to take like, the MCAT or the GMAT instead of the lsat. So it's an interesting choice on the part of the schools from a branding standpoint. Like it used to be the MBA had its own test, the gmat, and you had to take that test to get into business school. And that's just gone out the window with the advent of the GRE and then the EA and as you say, some of these other tests that schools are willing to take or just no tests at all. So it's an interesting position that the schools have arrived in, and I think some of it stems from going through a period where there was lower application volume and schools felt the need to open up more and more doors to just generate application volume. So we'll see now that volume's up, which we're seeing again and again. Maybe the schools start to narrow that. Well, I don't know. We'll see what happens going forward.
• 36:26
  Speaker B: And obviously Covid started, yes, you know, the wave process, but schools could have then stepped away from the waiver process once Covid was resolved. But anyway, anyway, that's for another discussion. It is all very good.
• 36:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, we keep getting.
• 36:42
  Speaker B: Wish them all the best of luck. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:44
  Speaker A: We've gone off on a number of tangents this week, but always fun, Alex to chat and let's connect next week and do it all again.
• 36:50
  Speaker B: Very good. Best of luck, everyone. Stay safe.