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Exploring the diocesan archives for the first time · Beyond The Beacon

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hello, I am Bishop Kevin Sweeney of the Diocese of Panison, New Jersey.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for a special Simon Podcast edition of the Beyond the Beacon and Coffee with Kupke.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: If it was Coffee for Kupke, I'd be filling in for Father Paul Manning.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: But as host of the Beyond the Beacon, I'm glad to welcome Monsignor Kupke, our Donoxton archivist, our Donockson historian, and pastor of St.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Anthony's in Hawthorne.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm supposed to say pastor of St.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Anthony's first, right?
0:29
SPEAKER_01: But uh sure.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: And uh as long as you're saying Hawthorne.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: We're St.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Anthony's in Hawthorne.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: And uh professor of church history at uh the seminary in Seton Hall.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh so for those who might listen to the Beyond the Beacon audio, we might encourage you to uh check this one out on YouTube as we're gonna take a little tour through our Daoces and Archives.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: My first time in four years.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Um I've heard it was here, I've heard about it, I've been meaning to get here, but now thanks to the podcast, Jay and Cecile are here with us, and Monsignor Kupke, uh, you and I together can learn a little from Monsignor Kupke about our Daos and Archives.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Monsignor, thanks for being here.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Bishop, welcome to the archives here.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: This is not your first time here.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: But you're only the second bishop to ever get down here.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: That makes me feel a little better.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh do you remember your first time?
1:20
SPEAKER_01: I should have asked you this before, but uh your first was seminarian or uh No, I was uh I was a young priest.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: This is the fourth place we've had the archives.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: We've moved them several times.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: But uh Yeah, I go I go back to uh 1976 because that year was the bicentennial of the country.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: And the American bishops decided as a group at their meeting that as their contribution to the bicentennial, they would all appoint an historical archivist.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: And then later that year they had a a meeting for us, a a training at the University of Dayton.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sure.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: So Bishop Casey called me in and said, uh, you're at How many years were you ordained at that point?
2:07
SPEAKER_02: Three.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: And you had church studied some church history in seminary?
2:11
SPEAKER_02: My best friend was Monsignor Rodimer's parochial vicar.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: So he knew through Dennis that I like.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: So it all works.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: It's who you know.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I will say a prayer, but just before that, on the topic.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Um so the bishops of the United States in 1976 say that every diocese should be a very important thing to do.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: They would all appoint as they would all appoint.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: So that wasn't something standard, um, hit and miss?
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Technically, the chancellor of the diocese was the archivist.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: But it was never seen as an historical or research.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: But yet, um thinking of um the Office of Readings uh that we read in abbreviary, um, these letters from even Polycarp from early on in the church, it seems like the church has been maintaining, right?
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and that's just something that maybe happened naturally.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but um in the in the United States it was m much more there was nobody full-time doing this.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: And um the only ones who had really looked at it historically are the few dioceses back then that had had a canonization cause.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Like Baltimore and Los Angeles.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: But right, right.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: Um well let's say a prayer and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us through the archives and uh maybe working through us uh can uh uh spark the interest of our listeners and um and viewers uh so that um I I feel that um seeing where we come from as the church and how we got here and who's helped us to get here uh can inspire our own faith to um follow the good example of many uh whose lives are recorded here, right?
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: So uh we'll place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Holy Spirit.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Come, O Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of the faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love, send forth your spirit, and we shall be recreated, and thou shalt renew the face of the earth.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: O God, who has taught the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Spirit, grant us in that same spirit to be truly wise and always rejoice in your consolation through Christ our Lord.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Our Lady Seat of Wisdom, pray for us.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Saint Jerome, pray for us, all holy men and women, pray for us.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: So Saint Jerome, the patron saint of Archivists, patron saint of Archivists, translated the Bible into Latin, right?
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Into Latin, right there.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: It was a bit of a character.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Very much a character, right?
4:33
SPEAKER_02: Um also as uh you know one of the first ones to uh promote tourism in the Holy Land.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Eventually he got there and ran a hostel for pilgrims and and we're um we're recording on the Feast of the Transfiguration, and you know, just again the importance of memory, um the apostles remember that moment and it's been recorded in you know be through art and uh and so um I guess also as we say our faith is incarnational, right?
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, um the beauty of our churches in um and in written documents and in records, right?
5:07
SPEAKER_01: In pictures.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: So um, this is very much the record of the faith of the Catholics of Northwest New Jersey for 200, 250 years.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Even going back before the diocese was founded in New York.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Way before the diocese, yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: As um fans of Coffee with Kupke or those who were able to have a uh uh a copy of your book, uh Living Stones.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um uh that you took that journey, right?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Um I did.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh do you remember when you were asked to first write the book?
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Bishop Rodimer talked to me in '84.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: And uh so he sent me to Washington to get a master's degree in church history because he wanted a book.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: And he got it.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: And he got it.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: He did a great job.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: It was I've shared before, it was a great benefit to me.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: You sent it to me in Brooklyn when I before I came and I was reading it on retreat and in the days leading up, and uh, it was a great introduction.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: So now um this is I'm sure a lot of living stones came from the lot of living stones material is is in here.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna take a look over here.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: I was asking about this um.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: That is our fourth bishop, Bishop Nava.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: And that's him in Rome at the council.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: You can see the city.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: In the background.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, I noticed that, right.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: The beautiful basilica, right.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: So this is uh his secretary, Monsignor O'Dimer.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and this is Father Dave Mann from Mountain Lakes, who was studying there.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: And Monsignor Kenny Lash.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: God bless him, he's still going strong.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: And this is a Greek Melkite seminarian who happened to be from Patterson at the time.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: And seminarians were Monsignor staff at the North American College.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: North American College, that's right, right.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh so maybe if we pan this way to the right a little bit, we have some.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Of course, Bishop Navad died at the College of the United States.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's right, that's right.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: So um and he was how long as Bishop?
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Two and a half years.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Two and a half years, like that.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: He went uh but he did have some health.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: He did, he did, right?
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh he's the reason.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: As soon as he came, uh the area next to your office on Durham Avenue.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: He turned that into a bedroom over.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, right, yes, I heard that story.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: I was like, yes, right.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: They have to go up the stairs.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh This is the official Roman document to the people of the three counties of North Jersey announcing to them that they were now a diocese.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Um in was that uh in December of um even 37?
7:30
SPEAKER_01: December of 37.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, December of 37.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And I was gonna see we have this is a surprise here.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: I didn't open it beforehand.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: These are beautiful.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: And what these are paperweights.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Paperweights, but this is the marble flooring from the cathedral.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: So most of this we were ordained on.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Um when there's a cathedral.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: There's a vocation video where a guy from New York says, When your nose hits the marble, right?
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, I saw that.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, um, they were renovating the cathedral.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: We have some pictures of that uh that year.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we're cutting up the uh old flooring of the cathedral, they turned it into paperweight souvenirs.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Speaking the truth in love.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Diocese of Patterson 50th anniversary, right?
8:16
SPEAKER_01: 1987.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Wow, beautiful.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: These two books.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: That must have been an exciting time for um uh Bishop Rodima, right?
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Um It was.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was to celebrate the 50th.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: He had been uh grown up in the diocese, ordained as priest for the whole life, yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: I once we once sat down and figured out that at that point there were only like five priests of the diocese that he had never met.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Because um, you know, he he went back to when he was a sophomore in high school when he signed up, and then his whole life had been in the diocese.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: He had never been anywhere else.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: And then he becomes bishop in 78, right?
8:56
SPEAKER_02: And uh and also before that, 25 years working in the chancery.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right, yes, yes.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: So he knew everybody, um every I once spoke to him at Pat Rice's funeral.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: You would not have told me.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: I've heard the name, yeah.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: So he was in a wheelchair by that point, and I leaned over to him, and you know, uh the day before we had an inquiry here from the children of one of our ex-priests from the 1950s, looking to see if we had any documentation about their marriage or anything.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: And I I just leaned over to Redimer and I I mentioned the name.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: I said, You'll never guess who we got contacted by yesterday.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: And I said the name, and immediately he told, you know, this was like a 1956 story.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: And I'm talking to him in 2016.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: And he just repeated the whole story and details about it I never heard of before.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, the guy's um discerning that he maybe wasn't called to priesthood, right, and having to leave and he fell in love with a girl next door to the rectory.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, he discerned.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh there but for the grace of God, right?
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're exactly grace, right?
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: So I was saying uh go ahead.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: Verdimer remembered the whole thing in great detail.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: And here's uh some relics from the eighties, I guess, right?
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Gene Romano's uh Bethlehem Center.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's right, that's right.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And some CDs.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And then what would be some of these records here?
10:29
SPEAKER_02: Is that um these would be mostly um uh boxes of of uh diocesan directories and this was a very popular and it still is missed by some, right?
10:38
SPEAKER_01: The uh the Catholic historical remote.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, they had Catholic historical review.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking of the uh the diaston directory with the book with the um and I have a little um free advertising for St.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Jones' Health here at my coffee mug, but I should have a coffee with Kupke.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: They tell me that um if you have a copy of the diocesan directory, you don't get rid of it, you're like that, yes.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Hide it from everybody.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Um so we're gonna take a stroll, I guess, and maybe uh look at some of the um uh other parts of the do you want to?
11:11
SPEAKER_01: No, I want to show you something first.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: Can we go, James, because you might want to take this with you.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: This is your throne.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
11:24
SPEAKER_02: This is your portable throne.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh boy.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: Which has not been out of here since the 50s, but they used to cart this around.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: And erect this is this is the platform, this is the Baldecino over it.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: And then over there we have the legs, and we have different colored liturgical draperies that go on it.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Is there an actual chair?
11:46
SPEAKER_02: There's a chair.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Who's our helper here?
11:49
SPEAKER_01: This is uh Stephen Ray.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: But this is the only picture we have of it actually in use.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: You can see uh set up an outdoor conference.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: This is Hinchcliffe Stadium.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: This was a diocesan youth rally.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, diocesan youth rally, beautiful.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: That we that might happen again, right?
12:10
SPEAKER_01: The newly renovated Hinchcliffe Stadium we have.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: That's why we're showing it to you.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: You may want us to drag it out again.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Who which bishop?
12:15
SPEAKER_01: He's in smiling.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: That's McNulty.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: McNulty, wow.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: What year approximately?
12:19
SPEAKER_02: This will be uh late 50s.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: And uh the um misericordia veritas.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: That's McLaughlin's coat of arms.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: The red hand of Ulster.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: The Irish part, I hope.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh so there was it, they brought around the Episcopal chair or throwing it in the city.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: So for the code, right?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: For big outdoor events, they would bring this and card it around.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm also glad to see because it's uh something that'll be coming up.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: This was a Jubilee cross, right?
12:52
SPEAKER_02: This is the quincentennial, yes.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: The 500th anniversary of uh Christianity in the Americas, right, right?
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Um 1992, right?
13:02
SPEAKER_01: When Pope John Paul II went to Dominican Republic.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: Um so um we'll be talking about in the coming weeks and months the Jubilee, Great Jubilee coming up of 2025, right?
13:13
SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes there's a Jubilee cross.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh right.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: This was in the cathedral, and uh eventually it wound up.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Like many things in um Discalce Carmelite Monastery of the Blessed Virgin in Morristown.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, they get several boxes uh because they've been so prepare the way, uh thanks to the generosity of some of the campaigns.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Um still beloved, and the very active uh uh alumni association and now the home of uh St.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Paul's Inside the Walls.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Um over here we have on this side we have Just one second before.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Is this it?
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, that's it looks like Living Stones, but it's somebody else's book.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the dies of Rockville Center.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Who's a priest of the became uh the new Archbishop of Boston, right?
14:02
SPEAKER_01: New Archbishop Austin.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes, from Rockville Center, yes.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: These are all the um history books of the parishes.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay, right.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: So if it's a custom for uh hundreds, right, right, right.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: We collect them.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Our Lady Queen of Peace Brantville, Lady Queen of Peace, Hewitt, our Lady Queen of Peace, West Milford.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: Are the same thing.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: That's right, okay.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Um Our Lady Star of the City, Lake of Patcon, our Lady of the Valley Wayne.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: So uh They're alphabetical by parish.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh you've never offered tours, have you?
14:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, they do sometimes people come.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Um occasionally people come um doing parish research for histories of parishes.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh there was uh a historian in St.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Vincent Martyr in Madison, I think, who did a book, who was in contact with me at one point.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: Um so that's that would not be unusual.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Occasionally we have um researchers come in that do other stuff.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: For example, one of our um hot button collections is the uh Karen Quinlan case.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right, yes, yeah.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Because it came out of the designs.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: So people doing moral theology research.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: Or Supreme Court.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: And um occasionally we'll get somebody doing on on urban demographics.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Remember this one?
15:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Chimes of St.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: John's.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: This is A Reverie by John Van Rensselaer.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes, this is a a uh composition.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: This is the organ company, right?
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is how to play the organ the bell chimes of St.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: John's.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, beautiful.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we have we have all kinds of stuff.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: And um down here at these, this is a newer file.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: This is all the immigration files of our former foreign foreign-born priests.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Um that gets more challenging as we go along.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: But uh we have a good immigration attorney at the moment, so we're grateful for that.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: And the seminarian files.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, in the in the old days, the seminarian files were like one sheet of paper and just went in the priest file.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: But now it's uh keep the record of, yes, yes.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: And then down here are the priest files.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Going back, I guess, to going back to 37.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: And here he is again, Father Gene Romano.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they can see I'm gonna go closer to you can see that.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: The founder of Bethlehem Hermitage, right?
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Which is is a unique spot um in uh in in the Universal Church, I even think, right?
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Because one of the few hermitages.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: We'll do a story on that uh one of the a diasp of a diocesan hermitage, right?
16:49
SPEAKER_02: So their cards are waiting for their files to come down.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Father John Connolly, uh I remember Father Connolly speaking of um working in the chancery as a seminarian.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Do you remember him telling those stories to you guys?
17:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: That was back on Degrasse Street.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, right, right, right.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: Where the uh school is now.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe we should we didn't say it at the beginning.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh we're uh here in our Dawson Center in um uh 775 Valley Road.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh the smaller building is 777 Valley Road, which is the uh The old convent building.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Right, the old convent and the the address of our Dawson Center.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: But um this was which high school?
17:30
SPEAKER_01: This was Paul VI.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Paul VI High School, and then John Paul II.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Elementary school.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Um and then after that closed.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: When when did the officers move here?
17:42
SPEAKER_02: They moved into the convent in the uh just at the time that Bishop Berdimer became bishop.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: While the school was still open, huh?
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: Because there were no more nuns in the school.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: And the move was from Patterson, Degrassi Street?
17:54
SPEAKER_02: From Patterson, from DeGrasse Street, right next to the cathedral.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Right, which uh that building came down, right?
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh and now there's the place of the charter school.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: Well that that building had been Dean McNulty's stable originally.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
18:06
SPEAKER_02: For horses.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: Then became um a laboratory for the cathedral high school, then it became the diocese and chancellor office.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: And now it's a new building with the charter school in it.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: So uh history uh is it's living history, right?
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Um so um uh uh here in the basement.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Um what year were you ordained again?
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Take it.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: 73.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: 73.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Um so um do you remember the the move of the archives at that time?
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I did it.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Really?
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Um and you've been I mean that was 78, 79, I guess, right?
18:47
SPEAKER_02: 78 we moved here, yeah.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh and actually we moved to the the other building.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: 777.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Then we moved to the Patterson Catholic Convent.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, the archives.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: And then we moved here.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Um you could have saved the trip if you just went for But we don't we try to plan as we go and we don't always know, can't read the future.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: So uh Bishop Erdimer said to me that convent will be big enough, you know, to house all the diocesan offices for the foreseeable future.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: I was out of there in three years because they needed more room for the year.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: Where seven where we are now, right?
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Um so um basically I was where the mail room is now.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: So the diocese was founded in December of 37.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: But it didn't actually operate until April of 38.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Took them a few months to get under the first bishop, um Bishop uh McLaughlin.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: McLaughlin, right.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: So in April of 38, a truck came up from Newark, from Mount Carmel Guild, with all the files, the deeds for the parish.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Parishes had been determined.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Do you remember how many parishes?
20:01
SPEAKER_02: They were about 40 at that point.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: And lots lots of little missions.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: And they were all wrapped in uh clothesline rope.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: And they just pulled them out and put them on the on the front step.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: At um at the cathedral.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: At uh Durham Avenue.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: At Degrassi Street.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh and so you said this aisle is the heart of the archives.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: This is really the the uh Chancery office files.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: So starting all the way at the end, we have a few files from before the diocese, uh from the 1930s in Newark, and then everything since any every every piece of paper that comes out of the Chancery office, come the bishop, the vicar general.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: This is all here.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Now that reminds me of two things from Coffee at Kupke.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: One is um you were looking for the letter.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Um was it with Bailey Ellen?
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Vera McMaha uh Vera Mulane.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Mulane, right, right.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Eventually you found the letter, or she found it.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Was it down here?
21:07
SPEAKER_02: It's down, it was right over there.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And then the second thing is um how all this is gonna change because so little is on paper anymore, right?
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh so uh I guess archive archivists uh across the country are thinking about that, right?
21:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: And how is that going to be saved?
21:26
SPEAKER_02: How is it going to be made available for research?
21:29
SPEAKER_01: And it in some ways it's gonna make writing history a little bit more difficult, right?
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Because people, I mean, I guess you can but people I think put less in emails now than they put in letters in the past, right?
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and also for the most part, people don't keep diaries anymore.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: That's right, right, right.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of that type of thing will be.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Which was it could be a treasure troll for a hyster historian, right?
21:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, when I was writing Living Stones, you know, I found the later stuff harder to research than the nineteen century stuff.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Because there was less than that.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm um okay, when you were writing Livingstones in 83, 84, 85, I guess you would have spent a lot of time here.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: I did.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: I spent one whole summer with Father Farmer and his people.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Oh right.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: And by the end of the summer I was, you know, they my friends were laughing at me.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: They said, you know, will you come out of the 18th century?
22:24
SPEAKER_01: There's one piece here, let me see.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: Stop talking about them as if they're still alive.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: For him the past is present.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Ah, here he is.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Mother Ray Kovke examines the old newspaper clippings of the Donasson archives.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: In 76, mm-hmm.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: 1976.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: This is what it looked like when I got took it over.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Here we are 48 years later.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: It's still going.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't even planned.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh and this is um I think an interesting uh because if you not many people have the chance to visit a seminary no but if you visit a seminary often on the walls you'll see um an ordination class.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Look at the size of that class in 1941 St.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Mary Seminary I guess that was in Baltimore right?
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah yeah um and as well do one more here to Ed and Peggy God knows who that is sometimes we collect things right right so I think we're gonna head to the other side now and uh just for example we have a whole collection over here which we really have no right to but we have it anyway because Bishop McLaughlin the first bishop of Patterson was the uh executor of the will of the fourth bishop of Newark Bishop O'Connor so we have all of O'Connor's seminary notes his classroom teaching notes his early homilies we have a whole collection of stuff basically about Seton Hall and ICS from the 1880s and 1890s based on the fact that McLaughlin was the executor.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: And if somebody from the seminary of Newark wants to come and we'll we'll gladly allow them to Right exactly right except I don't think they know we had it until just now well you can always learn something new.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: This is a piece of that's a piece of let me get the picture and this is what the cathedral looked like before the Redimer renovation.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Wow and this was a common feature uh one of the the kind of spires in the back of the altar right that's one of them right right right so if if you go in the lady chapel of the cathedral today the centerpiece of the tabernacle is one is this right here.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: So we saved one of the the legend is that they were supposed to be uh marble I've never been able to authenticate this and that the ship coming over sunk oh I heard right so they reproduced the whole thing in wood.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: Wow but this was this was so big that there was actually a passageway through it to get from this side to this side.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: Right right that that was um there were a few church churches that looked like that in Brooklyn and Queens when I was growing up enormous yeah right yeah um over this is one of our complaints about the new Baldecino in particular because it hides the St.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: John the Baptist window.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna show here the St.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: John the Baptist window here um and now the Baldecino over the altar uh makes it a little difficult to see that window but um if you it invites you to take it uh towards the back in uh uh do you think this is a bishop's uh traveling case here or that is the World War II mascot oh my goodness of uh Monsignor James Doyle who was a pastor in NetCong uh in later years but he was a Navy chaplain during the war and over in the corner over there we have Bishop Navas mascot that he used as a missionary in southwest New York when he was a priest in the Buffalo diocese I think my this was what we were talking about before right these are the treasured uh treasure directory right right the oldest ones are up there oh I see them out yeah in the corner right that will be the originals so this is this is what it looked like and then I don't know if you've ever seen this this is the Rodimer renovation oh yes um a lot of wood yes um and the sense of the Second Vatican Council the and the liturgical reform right the altar coming a little closer to the people right um right and or bringing the music right in a central place yeah and Bishop Savitaro put the music right back in the choir law that's right yes yes yes the cross is still there as it was right and the window um the cross is um is very historic that was the mission cross of the cathedral right the custom in the 19th century was to have an annual parish mission oh yes and you would on the bottom of the cross you would carve the year that the cross from Paris to Parish right so this is the mission cross of the cathedral parish this used to be in the back of the cathedral where the confessionals are now.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: And when it was a mission cross it didn't have our Blessed Mother and St.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: John there at the case no those were they were all reconstructed but it's so beautiful this is making me think we can have a follow-up episode maybe my Father Manning and Monsignor Gino could join us and we can go to the cathedral and uh and see some of the history there and this the throne right the fabric is supposed to be one of the last soak mills in the city of the last um right right so right yeah and then of course you know what it looks like today right but this is what it looked like when it was under construction a sketch huh that's before the tower so this would be in the 1880s oh I see that the you the the tower is the steeple is gone and also the the front minarets are not there yet a whole different view of the this was in the course of construction.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah okay and this one is before sound systems so this is what the pulpit used to look like with the sound shell um the Holy Spirit is often as there right um right and so the preacher is here this would help to project the voice goes up and out right yeah right right right is that that's not is that the same pulpit no right this is now this is the Hinchcliffe pulpit this is the famous pulpit that moved back and forth because b Dean McNulty when he built the cathedral put this on the wrong side and people always accused him of putting it there because he expected a throne right right right so his successor then moved it and then three years later it did become a cathedral move back again because it became a cathedral.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: This is now though the base of where the oils are in the back of the cathedral.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow beautiful um and when you say the Hinchcliffe pulpit uh was the Hinchcliff family donated okay okay um this going back this is a wonderful old photo but this is the St.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: John's convent being moved across the street on on wheels uh yeah on on they move the whole building on wheels wow this is this is uh this is one of the buildings that Gino took down to build his right but originally it had been across the street where the uh police department is and when Patterson decided to build a high school on that site this was moved across the street right behind the street box knock and barrel yeah yeah and you wouldn't even think of doing this today but they were able to do it.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: Amazing amazing I wanted to ask you about this Monsignor this was done by a very young artist at the time Steve Coleman he's a parishioner at Blessed Goterian Sparta and uh now teaches art in the Frankfurt Township school system and he's a he was a good friend of Father Paul and I so when we moved down here I asked him to do what would have been a Paschal candle centerpiece for the year that the diocese was founded.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: And of course the wording yes yes the words that we say is we like the candle exactly right exactly um beautiful living history yes that's now he has now he has three sons the oldest one is in college so but he was uh a young uh young guy back then he made his mark here he made his mark here in the archives thanks this is one of our oldest books in the in the archives uh we don't ordinarily have sacramental registers down here but this is uh a book when Bootin and St.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: Mary's over were a joint mission and this is their baptismal marriage book from the 1840s and hold it up so people can see what it looks like.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: Well it's in pieces so you got it's a real relic I guess right this was um in the 1850s 1840s and 50s so you can and you said this priest said oh I see 1840 handwriting 1849 so you can this one's this one's uh handwriting is relatively good is the October 1849 yeah yeah but then it gets worse as you go on and and so it was um a combined mission two sites uh right two certs together right and they were spun off of you know everything in Mars County and Sussex County uh with the exception of Butler comes from St.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Vincent's and Madison okay they were the original right so Bootin and Dover and when would St.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Vincent and Madison have started as a parish?
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Well they started having a priest come over from New York for Mass as early as 1805 and by 1825 they built a small church in 1839 they built another one which is still standing as a private residence and then later on at the end of the century they built the current church.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: So and then um there would have been communities in the uh vicinity they had mass stations from Madison all the way up to Montague and Strasbourg Pennsylvania and they wouldn't necessarily have a church they would just find a place where they could nor would they have mass every week but very quickly the two largest uh were St.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Mary's Dover and Mount Carmel Bootin.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: So by the late 1840s they would have Mass every other Sunday and the other places would have one during the week.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: So they were they were set off as a separate entity then early in the game.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: As we said at the beginning of the episode um for the church um almost it seems from the beginning record keeping was was important.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: I I think of where my parents are from in Ireland um you know people go back and find baptismal records from centuries right over the centuries.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: So now we have people coming here looking for the same thing.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: And in the 1800 early 1800s uh sometimes we're able to help them that's great that's great if you can decipher the handwriting some of them are are a little you know my my great great grandfather was baptized in New Jersey sometime in the 1800s can you give me a that's a little bit right extreme but right but if they have where the person lived then if they got a town we can find usually a record.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Right right um well we have some other items here um um this this book is could you want to put the spec on that yeah gotta be very careful with this right yes that one on the top okay and this one on the bottom so this catches my attention this will be on a that is from Monsignor Brestels a a flash drive now right but uh um Monsignor Brestels you want to read what it says there it's his 45th anniversary as a priest and his 70th birthday so Brestel by this time June 17 1984 Mayfair Farms which is in uh West Orange it's closed now a catering hall right very popular in its time so Brussels was vicar general by this point but he was also did he live at St.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: Anthony's in Horton he was pastor there at one point and he was also the first priest ordained for the diocese who would that be you know is that is Mike Hart the rector of the cathedral he looks a little like Monsignor Hart no relation?
36:36
SPEAKER_02: No connection.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: Right right and here you have uh Bishop Rodimon that's John Ahern who was a Franciscan and was head of the mission office singing a song?
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Maybe no these two were two Franciscans who had a little singing act together so they did something.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: Lauren Andrews was the youngest priest of the diocese at the time another singer here with an accordion right this is Patty O'Dunovan Oh my goodness look at that just celebrated his 50th anniversary right another singer and that is John O'Connell the founder of Florent Park Dick Messenlager and John Ryan the founder of Kittelon oh boy this is Patty O'Donovan acting as playing and here's another nice hat there this is Gene Boland okay um this way it's a younger guy right that's John Hart okay there were quite a few speeches and presentations huh oh yeah they it was the only priest's event basically and his family so we had a lot of fun with it okay that's Christian Haig his classmate wow a toast Teddy Lee Oh the started he's the one who started the Hispanic ministry right Fatima Poseiko originally from China was from China from the prefecture of Lint Sing and he had been sent by his bishop to study in uh Spain and was caught in Spain when the revolution happened so this is a complicated thing but Bishop McNulty's brother was president of Seton Hall.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah Seton Hall had an Asian studies institute right so Bishop McNulty's brother had a lot of connections bringing Chinese priests into so do you know oh you know that one is um Gemma Rourke's up in Mary Hart yeah yeah yeah that's Brestel and that's the then president of the pre-senate Vinny Malloy okay wow uh there's got some real treasures in here huh oh yeah and then um this one you might like um this is Bishop Boland the second bishop oh yes this is his desk calendar from 1948 they still uh make calendars with the same cover making them like that 1948 wow so you can see what an uncluttered schedule bishop bowland had oh yeah a lot of days off yeah friendly sons of St.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Patrick yep some things have not changed yeah he's in he's uh only had some busy weeks someday we'll have your address calendar yeah um these are all your predecessor's installation oh yeah Lawrence Casey ilisoli servio yeah uh him alone do I serve you the last words of um the Bishop of Rochester John Fisher before he went on the scaffold beautiful um and then Bishop Casey was originally from Rochester New York yes um uh Thomas Aloyishus Boland the second uh and Father Patty O'Donovan who we just mentioned yesterday sent me a picture of him and my aunt Aloysha's sister Aloysius in Galway in Ireland so here's Thomas Aloysha's Boland here is yes uh Thomas Henry McLaughlin the first bishop and here's Bishop Casey installation of his most uh most Reverend Peter Garrity as the third Archbishop of Newark Friday June twenty eighth nineteen hundred and seventy four oh this is oh this is the uh this is the installation they would have given uh a personal personalized booklet right for the mess oh wow we didn't do that with you is it's we were just exactly with masks and facing uh and so how about uh this you're saying is uh this is uh one of our collection of pontificalia we call it right uh these are and when things were still in light this is the book that would have been used for confirmation yes yeah as I said I'm glad that some things have changed uh uh uh uh rite of confirmation and diversity blessings right right uh and this is Bishop Nava's yes that's Bishop Nava's miters okay so you can see this is his gold miter uh fairly plain right not to be nice yeah that's a cloth of gold a little bit and then underneath it is his what they used to call the precious miter the precious miter with uh kinds of oh yeah this is changing some nice emeralds it looks like in there i I'm not gonna try it on the thing.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah I pr I presume it's all fake but if it were real we wouldn't have it in here.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Wow do you have I guess there's f uh some similar things like this for some of the other bishops huh?
42:51
SPEAKER_02: Some of them yes you know not many of them the early ones didn't die here so they took stuff with them.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: Right uh the first three uh left us to go elsewhere we have a few other this is photos of Casey's Welcome to Patterson okay that was a big moment yeah yes oh look at a nice Cadillac there right this would be right by your house okay um this is the different schools represent the the mayor would meet them right where the bridge comes over the and then they would come down Broadway and the different schools people would be lined up yes yes kissing babies right some things have not changed do you remember who was at that time no I don't oh yeah that I do that's Pat Kramer okay yes I heard that welcome Bishop Lawrence BKC right there we go so this is this is all this is in front of the cathedral this is his first shot walk into the cathedral to see what he inherited um those are all from the newspaper and this is in front of your residence as a children of St.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: Teresa school oh beautiful this is this is Boland and Boland as Metropolitan installed and this is actually a good shot this is your house now Wow.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: This is the staircase.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: This is what it looked like.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: This is the Board of Consulters at the formal meeting to uh verify his credentials.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
44:56
unknown: Yeah.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: You have a couple other items here?
44:58
SPEAKER_01: How about the picture there?
44:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh this one this is the same thing, actually.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: This is a broader picture of the front of the cathedral.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: Um and his welcome.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: For McNulty's welcome.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, for McNulty's.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: This is 653.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: 1953, well.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: Um and this is the same thing.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: This is McNulty riding in the car.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: With a nice top hat.
45:20
SPEAKER_02: With a top hat.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: We got a few other ones.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Now this is one of our older things.
45:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, all of our deeds are on paper.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: Except St.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: Vincent's in Madison.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, they would have better quality.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: So this is the deed to St.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Vincent's on vellum.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: Vellum.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: From the original French emigres who were the original owners of the property.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: And turning the deed over to the parish.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: 1863.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: You can see this is the old church.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: You can see the old sign there.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: Someone had a nice handwriting here.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: And it's in English.
46:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and they made a mistake on it.
46:09
SPEAKER_02: They initially put St.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: Vincent's in Essex County.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: And they had to change it to Mars County.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: Some version of Whiteout, right?
46:18
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: Early Whiteout.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: This indenture.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: Indenture, okay.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: Well now they just email a documentary.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: James Roosevelt Bailey, the bishop of the work.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: Bishop Bailey had a lot of fun with uh deeds because he spent a lot of time trying to make sure that they would come into his possession.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh, rather.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: And then one day he realized that if he was suddenly to die, all the parishes would go to his Protestant relatives because they were in his name.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
47:01
SPEAKER_02: So that's when he got the legislature to create the form that we have today.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: Parish Corporation.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Parish Corporation, right?
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: These are some old St.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: John's athletic pictures.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: Never let them say we didn't have girls' athletics back in the twenty.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: And that is Walter Hill.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Who later became chaplain and coach, maybe.
47:25
SPEAKER_02: Right, later became the rector of the cathedral.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: And this is this again, this is the orphanage, the parish orphanage.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, which is uh again where Father Gino took that property and sold it to.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: This this was the original building on that property.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: St.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: John's Parish War School.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: And then these are the boys.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: And the same Father Hill, right?
47:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: The culture, I think, is there, yeah.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:03
SPEAKER_02: A little bit different than the uniforms we wear today.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: Like the knee pads.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, right, right.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been great, Monsignor.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: I uh We have one more to show you before you go.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just lost it.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh, here it is.
48:20
SPEAKER_02: This is the bill for the cathedral.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: I think I heard it was paid off.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: This is the work order from Dean McNulty to the architect.
48:35
SPEAKER_02: It lists how many stones were purchased, how much each stone cost, uh, how they were dressed, you know.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: New Catholic Church, specification of the cut stonework of the new Catholic Church to be built at Patterson, New Jersey, according to the plans and sections furnished by P.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: C.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Kiley, that the architect.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: That's the architect, right.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: He's also the architect of Boston's Cathedral.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Really?
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Providence's Cathedral.
49:03
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
49:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh but you can see all the the cost of every stone.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: The jams and arch shall be checked and champered with label moldings around the arch.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have no idea what it all means, but all the fitting hinge bolts and anchors shall be required about the entire work, must be done by the stone cutters, in quotes.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: And then to the contractors.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: Well.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: And what what year was this?
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Do we know?
49:39
SPEAKER_02: This would be like 1868, 1867.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Because the cathedral essentially was done by 1870.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: And uh and this was specific work, obviously, for the stone cutters, but also there was a lot of parishioners who were laborers who helped in the actual construction of the cathedral.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: This is the professional contract.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: They have to give you X number of dress stones.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: They make the difference between dress stones and undress stones.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: The stones came from From uh Little Falls.
50:07
SPEAKER_02: Little Falls, right.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right, right.
50:09
SPEAKER_02: Um so we have lots of good stuff to ask.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh we'll uh have to come back for another trip at some point or again, maybe get uh Father Manning and uh Monsignor Gino and uh do a little history.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: No, we can go.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to put it on a display leave this year.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: Um but thank you, Monsignor Kapke.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh really appreciate your time and all that you do for the diocese.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: Wow, it's great to see that picture of you here in 1974 and uh I didn't realize that was hanging out quite so or 76, right?
50:40
SPEAKER_01: So uh 48 years ago, and um uh this is uh a treasure that we pass on, right?
50:46
SPEAKER_01: Um but it has to be cared for.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for the wonderful care and thanks to our helpers uh who are there with your assistance there.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: That uh this works.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for visiting.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Um thanks everybody.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: We'll see you again on Beyond the Bink Beacon and Coffee with Cup Key.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: God bless you.