Latest / Spooky Butt / 11. Ask A Medium with Tiffany Hopkins

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11. Ask A Medium with Tiffany Hopkins · Spooky Butt

• speaker-1: Mm-hmm. ⁓ hello! It is Spooky Season here at Spooky Butt, and I am joined in SpookyButt Studio by Tiffany Hopkins. Tiffany Hopkins is a researcher, medium, and author of Beyond: A Living Person's Guide to the Dead. She loves bringing a practical, scientific approach to the spiritual and creative, and vice versa. She runs Normalize Talking to the Dead, a community for mediums and the people who love them, and No Box, a research and design firm. Tiffany Hopkins, welcome to Spooky But. speaker-0: Hello, it's so good to be here. speaker-1: Thank you so much for joining. So for folks listening at home, I want to kind of give a bit of context about how we met and like a little bit of synchronicity with this. ⁓ so we first met in the spring of 2025. ⁓ and I took the Manifesting from the Beyond course through Morbid Anatomy, which is an absolute banger of a class. I think it gets offered ⁓ multiple times a year. ⁓ so with manifesting from the beyond, each week, I think the course is maybe about eight weeks or so. ⁓ each week a different expert comes in and basically brings like a different tool that the students can use to help maybe work on an existing creative project or get through a creative block, that sort of thing. So for the class that Tiffany taught, it was candle reading, which was so cool. I had never done it before. And so basically it's kind of like a meditative state where you take like maybe heavy like cardstock paper and you hold it kind of close to a candle flame, like horizontally over the candle flame where the smoke is the thickest. And then you kind of move it around and you get messages from the beyond, essentially. So I remember going into it and being a little bit freaked out. Like I almost emailed Joanna to be like, hey, you know, I'm gonna sit this one out because I was really worried that I would open a portal or contact something like not great. But I did not have that experience. ⁓ the candle reading was incredibly focused and it was just so simple. It was so easy to just snap, like be right into that meditation, set those boundaries and be like, I'm only gonna contact who I wanna contact. ⁓ so that was absolutely fantastic. And I did want to mention that after that candle reading class, ⁓ I got the absolute best night's sleep that I've gotten in years. And I think about that like multiple times a week. Isn't that crazy? speaker-0: That is so cool. That is my favorite follow up ⁓ or like result from mediumship work ever as somebody who struggles to sleep. That's really yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ my God. And this is so ridiculous, but totally hilarious. ⁓ you're are you familiar with ⁓ Orville Peck the singer? Okay, so that night I had a dream. Like I'm kind of like a casual Orville Peck fan, but that night I had a dream that he and I were best friends and we decided to have a lavender marriage so that we could just like take care of each other and like I got to live in this fabulous house and I woke up just being like, ⁓ my god, best best dream ever and it like I was in the best mood for like the next week. It was so funny. speaker-0: Yes. ⁓ my god, that is like literally a dream. Like what a perfect dream. I love speaker-1: Yeah, I don't know why it was Orville Peck, but it was great. Like he's he's So yeah, I I loved candle reading. I have not done it since. So I'm gonna I'm gonna have to jump back into that. ⁓ is candle reading something that you do like regularly or is this is it kind of like you break it out kind of when you need to? speaker-0: So dreamy. ⁓ Don't do it regularly. I hadn't been doing it very often when I did that class. And I was I was really nervous to do it because I wasn't in the same space as people, and it's like a slightly physically dangerous. I think in that class somebody lit their paper on fire. They did. At least one person, maybe two, which I was what I was so afraid of. ⁓ everybody says this stuff is dangerous. Sometimes it is. ⁓ but it's funny because we're kind of Coming up on spooky season, and I just feel like it's such a great time to like we start bringing the candles back out. It's cooling down. We like want to have that kind of vibe again. And so it just really fits ⁓ as something that I kind of do in the fall and winter when you when you're kind of more likely to have candles lit and you're like, ⁓ why don't I just, you know, do this? It like you said, it's very easy to drop in. It's kind of low, ⁓ like effort I wanna say and it's still it still can be really ⁓ powerful. speaker-1: Yeah. And it's ⁓ what was cool is that we kinda went around the room and we we shared our images and I remember one woman was like she set the intention that she, you know, wants to improve her health and then she showed like she picked up her picture and it was it looked like someone in a yoga pose. It was wild. It was so cool. speaker-0: It's so funny because when I describe these describe candle readings that people are always like, I don't know, like what? But it's really fun. It's a little like a Rorschach. Like if anybody's familiar, you're basically creating a really you don't have any actual control over what it's gonna look like. You're just kind of moving things around, like the paper around. And so you you don't know what you're gonna get, but you're setting this intention with a specific kind of question or space you wanna look at. And then your mind helps you see in the picture, you know, something that tends to support you understanding what your question better or you know, it's just it's it's fun. It's I guess that that's an easy way to put it. It's a fun way to connect with the beyond. speaker-1: Right. It's like a fun, safe way. And it's I don't know, for me it was kind of a reminder, like, ⁓ there are spirits, you know, loved ones, et cetera, who are looking out for me. So that was I don't know, that was so cool. And I definitely I want to take manifesting from the beyond again. I don't know when it's going to be offered next. ⁓ because we're kind of late in the year right now. But yeah, next time it comes around, I definitely want to sign up for it. ⁓ I do have another I have like a f kind of goofy synchronicity. ⁓ We're gonna go through a couple of these tonight, but ⁓ yesterday I was looking at your ⁓ professional history on your no box website, and I saw that you started your career at MTV. That's technically where I started too. speaker-0: No way. ⁓ my gosh, that is not common. speaker-1: Yeah, it's I was like, come on when I saw that because I was an intern there back in the fall of twenty thirteen, but I was in the New York office. So I was only there for a semester, but I was just like, ⁓ my god, this keeps following me all around. speaker-0: So funny. I used to go come work in the New York office. I was based in LA. and I got started right after college. So that was yeah, my first my first real job. speaker-1: That's so cool that it was yeah, you were able to walk into that right after college. speaker-0: Yeah, I was it was really cool. I ⁓ and they did this whole I was actually planning to go to grad school 'cause I wanted to get a PhD. I'm a huge nerd and then they like did all these secret interviews. Like they wouldn't tell me the company. Like it was on the phone and this was a long time ago. On the phone, no video. ⁓ and I didn't know who it was, and then they made me the offer and told me who it was and I was like, Why did you it was so weird, like why did you guys keep this secret? And then I I took the job and I ended up like working in industry all this time. I mean, I did go back to school for an MBA but I didn't do a PhD and it's sort of because I had that such a fun first job experience that I just kinda kept going. speaker-1: That is so cool. That's yeah, that's really funny. I I wonder if maybe they I know ⁓ I had to like redo my resume multiple times. I mean I was still a college student, but it was just to be like, Hey, don't put this in there 'cause it'll look like you're trying to be famous and whatnot. And it's like, yeah, that was that was kind of a process. So maybe I don't know, that's kinda funny. speaker-0: Yeah, I think it was something like that. Yeah, they're on the on the lookout for people trying to I don't know, get famous. Get their leg up. Making websites for ⁓ T V, that's what I was doing. speaker-1: ⁓ nice. Okay. Yeah, I was getting coffee and things like that, but it was still cool. So yeah, really, really good experience. So that's a fun piece of synchronicity. So I do want to start off this interview talking about Beyond, A Living Person's Guide to the Dead, ⁓ your book, which released last year. ⁓ so I read this book. I started it over the weekend and I finished it yesterday, and it's awesome. I cannot get over how much information is in it. It's only about 220 pages and there's absolutely zero fluff. ⁓ so it honestly, it could have easily been like 12 volumes. I feel like each chapter could have been its own book. So how were you able to whittle it down? Like how long did it take you? And like how did you what was your process for basically structuring the book? speaker-0: Man, it's my first nonfiction full length book. So both to be published, but also the first one I I wrote. ⁓ I started with just Mediumship for Creativity because I taught that class for years with morbid anatomy, and I wrote it up. And so that my first structure for the book was actually a series of chapters about mediumship for mediumship for creativity, mediumship for health, mediumship for life, mediumship for work. all of this. And I started writing and immediately realized you just can't do it like that. You can't separate them out. You need to separate out the skills and then the context and that. And then I started writing ⁓ and realized I have so much pre-work I need to do. I ended up within the but between the first and the second draft, I moved everything around and I made the front half of the book very ⁓ kind of intellectually heavy. And I don't introduce the concepts of how to actually do mediumship really till the third part of the book, which was a total it it it was because there's so much, like you said, there's just so much you need to have in your brain to allow yourself to do something that is so strange and unusual and not really socially acceptable that I really felt like I had to front load the book with all these terms and practices for you for people ⁓ to basically understand themselves and their own thinking and their own experience because mediumship really opens up your capacity to sense and understand and feel and connect with yourself and the other the rest of the world and if you're not kind of well grounded in who you are and how to approach that, it can be kind of overwhelming. And the foundational thing about the book, which is it's funny because it was my similar concern with the the candle reading class was safety. Because I'm just giving people a book to do something that is very intense. Mediumship ⁓ for talking to the dead especially is very intense and I do open it up to talking to kind of anything that's because it's the same tool, whether you want to talk to a plant or your own body or the planets or whatever. you're still talking to something that's not going to talk back to you like a living, breathing human. And so ⁓ I I really feel like you can use these skills for anything, but it leaves somebody to figure it out on their own. So I put a ton of extra material in there about different ways to approach safety and what kind of things to consider when you're diving into this material since a lot of us don't have communities that we're working with. And so I wanted it to be a book that was safe, you know, so that people felt safe and knew how to handle whatever was gonna happen. speaker-1: ⁓ man, that's yeah, that's awesome. And I definitely felt that reading the book. And then ⁓ something that ⁓ I just going through the experience of reading beyond, I kept being like, Man, why does this feel so familiar? Like, why, you know, what's what's going on? Like, I haven't really read any books about mediumship. And then I realized it reminded me of like a turn of the century metaphysical text. So I like about 10 years or so ago. I got really into like law of attraction and reading like those like foundational texts from like 1900. And so Beyond to me kind of had like a similar vibe. So it was like this very strong, like scientific sense. And then it was like very reverent of like the unknown. It was just like, I don't know, it was like this very, very polished, very like cool book. And it it kind of transported me back. To a hundred years ago is it was awesome. It just feels like it's an extension of the people who kind of kicked this off a hundred plus years ago. So I thought that was amazing. speaker-0: Yeah, that is I love to hear that. That's so cool. I did well, as you know, reading it, I read a lot and used a lot of different materials as source. There's a huge bibliography and index at the back and resources. But I learned all this stuff mostly in a community that's a hundred and fifty years old. And so it makes sense that it would feel or I'm happy to hear it feels grounded in that history, in my specific like background of of spiritualist history and where I trained in in western New York. and yeah, that that just feels great that it feels that way. And it also it really is a book that I wanted for myself. Like I just I had to read so many different things to get to where I was and I wanted to give people this like more of a primer so that you could kind of you wouldn't have to go buy a hundred books to get, you know, the basics. Right. speaker-1: That's awesome. Cause yeah, it's I mean, it has everything. It's like, you know, it's not just reserved for people who are wanting to be professional mediums. It's, I mean, it's for anybody who's looking to kind of improve their communication skills. And it's got all these resources, exercises, guided meditations, and basically anyone can do that. ⁓ it's not limited to any basic skill level. ⁓ So yeah, that's so cool because it's just it's literally like, you know, it has your biography, it has a history of Lily Dale, an introduction to mediumship, like as a concept, and then it's basically like a mediumship manual. So you really get this is such a great like gateway to this world, essentially. ⁓ and it's it's cool because this is the first book that I've ever read that's solely focused on mediumship. So I'm really glad that this was the start of it, you know. speaker-0: Mm. That makes me so happy. That's I I love to hear it. speaker-1: Yeah, and it's I could tell like, God, that must have been extremely hard work. So, like, ⁓ how long did it take you to write beyond? speaker-0: So I would say I kind of started writing it when I started teaching more a mediumship for creativity, which was in twenty twenty. But actually now that I say that, it started as a term paper at at like I went to mediumship school. I did like a two year degree at a ⁓ school in Lolydale. ⁓ and we had to do a research paper. So it started the research really started then, so that was like twenty eighteen. ⁓ so it was, you know, eight years or so and then Once I had the book contract and I really sat down to write it, I really I sat down and spent like four months straight writing the first draft. And I and I could do that because I'd written the core of the process and I'd been researching all these different parts for, you know, seven years or so at that point. And so I had it all in my head and it was just a matter of like sitting down and getting it all on paper. And then I had I I did like eight rounds of revisions both with d my like a developmental editor and then the editor at the publishing house who published the book. So it was super intense. it was a process that I mean I was glad that the publisher gave me a really tight they gave me a really tight deadline and it was actually a good thing 'cause I would have kept writing that book for ten more years. Like absolutely. And I you know, anybody who's written a book knows you kind of want to keep doing that, but they were like, Nope, this is it, we're going and I was like, ⁓ but one more one more provision. speaker-1: Right. Well, I think, yeah, the final product is fantastic. And it's something that I feel like I can always kind of go back to. ⁓ so I'm looking forward to rereading it in the future because it it is quite a bit of information. And what's nice too is like the way it's structured and broken up. If I have, you know, if I'm like, ⁓ I have a question about this specific aspect, I can just jump right to that chapter and get everything I need. So I did want to ask, ⁓ because I saw some content on Instagram a few weeks ago. that you ⁓ recently recorded the audio book. speaker-0: Actually I I did a year ago. ⁓ it was and I just reposted it. Yeah, I just reposted that. speaker-1: ⁓ okay. So ⁓ how long did that take to get all that going? Was I mean, that was not like a one and done. You had to do that over multiple recording sessions, right? speaker-0: Yeah, that so Hashette, who published the book, ⁓ has like a whole department that does audiobooks and I actually got to do the narration myself, which was really fun. And it took three days, eight hours a day. I actually yeah, I actually had to ⁓ be on vocal rest all the speaker-1: ⁓ my god. speaker-0: days in between so I couldn't speak out loud to anybody because you're like when you're talking for eight hours a day, ⁓ it's really it's hard on the voice, especially, you know, I'm not ⁓ doing it all the time. So yeah, it was it was three days technically and then they spent a while editing it. ⁓ but it was one of my favorite parts of the process. I absolutely loved it and I I worked with them to make sure that all of the meditations were separated out ⁓ in the content in the audiobooks. So if you ever want to just listen to the meditations, you can really easy. Yeah. So that was like my favorite part of getting to do that. speaker-1: That's awesome. Yeah, I didn't know that. I'll definitely have to check that out. ⁓ so that's great. So like they gave you the option to just have you do the the recording. ⁓ did they also say like, hey, we could, you know, bring in a voice actor if that's if that's what you want? Actually ⁓ you did? ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. speaker-0: I had to try out actu Yeah. I had to try out and ⁓ had a whole separate, you know, they were like, Do you want to? And I was like, Yes, and I was really hoping they would accept me, but they wanted to make sure, you know, I sounded okay and could do it. and turn I because I've done podcasts and lots of other like media stuff, but recording a It was so hard after in the middle of the first day, I was I was like, I don't know if I can do this and she's like, Actually you're doing the director was like, Actually you're doing fine, you're gonna be fine. And then it it got easier. But surprisingly, it's not just like reading something out loud for some reason. It's you have to read very slow, like slower than you'd think, and you have to like keep your face in a certain position. I don't know, it's a it's a skill. So Props to all the narrators out there ⁓ making our beautiful audiobooks 'cause it is hard. speaker-1: Right. Yeah. ⁓ that's so cool. And now that you've got this in your tool belt, you can, you know, use it moving forward. ⁓ I I did wanna point out too, like the cover art is fantastic. Cause you can't really it's it's cool because it's like, ⁓ yeah, this is obviously like a book about ⁓ the other side, but it's also it looks a little maybe like it's like a sci-fi book or something like that. So I do wanna I wanna point this out because this is we as we discussed before, recording, we're both Libras. I I lean towards like vanity sometimes. ⁓ I was like, man, I wish I was on public transit reading this book because I'd look super cool. speaker-0: ⁓ my god, I love that so much. Also Libra. Also, you can't judge a book by its cover. Sorry. speaker-1: 'Cause I was like if I lived in if I still lived in New York City, I'd have this out on the train and I would like I'd try to like position it so that people could see the cover, but be like, ⁓ what are you staring at me? ⁓ this book? Like, yeah, like I would be I would be insufferable, but you know, I'd be spreading the word, so speaker-0: Exactly. I'm a big fan. Please. Get out there. Look cool. speaker-1: Right. ⁓ so and I wrote this question down verbatim, is there another book on the books? speaker-0: right after I finished that one I wrote a fictional like a novel and then I like I I I haven't been able to get that one published yet, but so I'm still writing. I'm also right now working on the same format sort of as Beyond, but about research and about kind of like how I made that book and what I do in my day to day life, which is mostly qualitative research with people, ⁓ and how research can help us like just as in our lives. ⁓ which sounds really dull. I still haven't put together the the pitch. ⁓ I'm pretty early on that one. And I won't lie, I've always imagined that in like five or ten years I'll do another beyond or like another edition because that kind of stuff, like, I don't know. There's just so, so much more. It's it's a there's a lot and I had to take some stuff out as it was, as you can imagine. ⁓ And there's just so many more layers and and depth that you can go with that kind of stuff. So I would love to do a second, like Beyond Beyond. I kinda joked to myself, which is silly, but speaker-1: I love that. Cause also like there's so much research and appear and you know, especially now I feel like people are really we might be having another great awakening right now 'cause things are weird and, you know, the rise of AI and all that ⁓ kind of kooky stuff. So who knows? I mean, maybe, yeah, in ten years there could be enough to fill several books, you know. speaker-0: Think so. speaker-1: Right. ⁓ so I do want to talk about your mediumship for creativity class. so you've got another class beginning on November 6th. So the full title is Mediumship for Creativity Seasonal Circles, and this is offered through Morbid Anatomy. ⁓ so it's about a 90-minute class. It starts with a guided meditation and then it's followed by 45 minutes of working on a creative project. So whatever you bring to the class you can work on. ⁓ and then after that 45 minutes, the class reconvenes and then everyone shares ⁓ what they've worked on. So I have not taken this yet, but I'm definitely going to sign up for it. ⁓ this sounds super cool. So yeah, what ⁓ what else can you tell me about mediumship for creativity? Like if ⁓ others are looking to join for the first time. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ I'd love to have you. Please join. This is actually I think there's two sessions left this year. ⁓ it's been a year long ⁓ class that we do that we meet every six weeks, like at the all the equinoxes and cross quarters and solstices. And it grew out of ⁓ actually during the pandemic, I did this that series every single week on Friday. We had a meeting up ship for creativity. And it's kind of like a lab, right? You're practicing. with other people. We still like get together and kind of like get in the mood. and I set it up with a a meditation. Then we have time to work on our project and yeah, like you said, then we all talk about how it was. So this it it's a great place to Meet some other people who are into this kind of thing and making kind of whatever kind of project you're you have going on and it's been really fun because we have people who are who will come who like I haven't done anything creative in so long and just wanna like reconnect with myself. And then we have people who come who are like filmmakers who have been working on the same film the all all year, right? And they come and work on it in in the session and obviously have to work on it other times too, but It's just this open place for any type of creativity and then any level. Like you don't need to be any certain professional or ⁓ super active artists. It's just a place to practice both your connection skills and your technical, like art skills, like making stuff and being creative because creativity, just like mediumship, is a practice and that's kind of what the class is based on. This this fact that both require doing. You have to do those things. There's no creativity without making and there's no mediumship without mediuming. speaker-1: Right. ⁓ that's awesome. ⁓ so I do want to ask, ⁓ how like how long have you been teaching at Morbid Anatomy and like how did you get involved in the Morbid Anatomy community in the first place? speaker-0: Yeah, I started teaching in twenty twenty. So it's like summer of twenty twenty, kind of depth of the pandemic. And I met Joanna right before the pandemic started. Joanna ebensine who runs Morbid Anatomy. I met her at an event in New York City in Brooklyn. And we just totally hit it off and I was talking about we were we would meet on Zoom and just chat and hang out. And I was telling her about my research paper and she's like, I'd like to learn that. And so I did a little circle with her and a few other friends just to like try it out, like try teaching mediumship for creativity over a few weeks on Zoom and everybody loved it. So, you know, I put it together as a formal course and then taught it, I don't know, mm probably close to a dozen times as a month long course. Yeah. speaker-1: Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, Joanna's awesome. She is. I guess ⁓ Morbid Anatomy maybe started the online courses in 2020. Yes. Okay. speaker-0: This was like one of their early classes, yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ wow, an OG class. Yeah. I ⁓ this is so ridiculous. And I've told Joanna this ⁓ in certain like I think I told her this in ⁓ manifesting from the beyond when I like when we went a down around and we did our ⁓ introductions. I started following Morbid Anatomy in 2018. ⁓ because it was just like I thought it was just like a really cool art curation Instagram. And then it wasn't until 2024 that I realized they taught online classes. So I've been taking classes consistently ever since like November of 2024. But yeah, it's it's so I it's so ridiculous because it was right in front of me this entire time. It took me years to figure that out. So anyway, ⁓ that's yeah, my spiel on that. But ⁓ also I do want to talk about your ⁓ trip through Morbid Anatomy. So this is called The Town That Talks to the Dead, a morbid anatomy grand tour to Lilydale, New York. So this trip ⁓ typically happens. in early summer around June-ish. And I know that there was a trip this past summer, but we don't know if there's going to be one in 2027 or maybe the following year. ⁓ so with the trip to Lilydale, ⁓ what is that like? It's yeah, it's like a small group and you guys get to go to different events and different parts of the town and just it sounds awesome. It sounds like you guys kind of do a little bit of everything. speaker-0: Yeah, so this is my dream trip. What I did is take all of my favorite parts of Lilydale and put like curate them for a long weekend for the morbid anatomy community. And this year was the second official tour. I actually prototyped it the year before with some close friends and family. And basically when you come to Lillidale, it's kind of overwhelming. There's this like huge packet of materials that that talk about all the courses. There's like 10 activities every day and you don't know what to pick or what to choose and if you should spend a whole weekend or you know, it's just hard. There's a lot. And I wanted to give people who'd never been the like perfect introduction. So I curated this weekend. We rent out a whole hotel in Lilydale. And then I coordinate all the breakfast and dinner, lunch is kind of open, and then I curate a bunch of events with my my favorite mediums, historians, ⁓ some local like just experts on biology and and the the area and just make sure you get an introduction to all the important parts of Lillidale, which is like the history, the art, the mediumship of course, and the healing. So it's the last two years have been so fun and we're really excited to do another one. And we haven't we just haven't quite, yeah, booked it for twenty twenty seven. So in the next year or two we'll definitely be doing it again. And yeah, y if you're Interested, it'd be great to have you. speaker-1: Yeah, that I didn't realize that you guys booked an entire hotel. That is so cool. 'Cause it like you have all these like morbid anatomists, like it's like a big slumber party with a bunch of like occultists, you know? speaker-0: Exactly. It's kinda like slepaway camp for adults who are into yeah, spooky stuff. It's it's so fun and we've it's just been such a great group and you know, I do a lot of morbid anatomy stuff online and it's nice to be able to do some things in person too. speaker-1: That sounds fantastic. ⁓ so I do want to talk a bit about your ⁓ website and your community called Normalize Talking to the Dead. ⁓ so it's basically resources for mediums and the people who love them. ⁓ I do want to point out that ⁓ when you visit the website, the design is fantastic, as is the merch. Like it's it has this kind of cool, like like 70s-ish vibe. Like it's it's very like funky, but like still hip and like ⁓ kind of like modernized a bit. ⁓ the photography is fantastic and all that good stuff. But it's ⁓ my God, there's just so much there. Like all of these resources, developing mediumship, developing community, ⁓ events and classes, research, ⁓ glossary for commonly used terms. And then ⁓ what I thought was so cool was just the enormous directory of practicing mediums, which is Awesome in today's age because I feel like with social media, with TikTok, with Instagram, it's it's just roulette. You know, I'll search for I want to find like an astrologer, palm reader, like whatever. And I have to jump on, you know, the the what do I want to call it, like the casino game of, you know, my iPhone. ⁓ so this is so nice to just have a centralized resource for this. And it's just so user-friendly and it's so awesome. So when did you start ⁓ normalized talking to the dead? speaker-0: See, I think it was 2021 or around there. ⁓ I was actually on a hike and I just remember this moment being like, ⁓ yes, that's how to say it. Like, that's what I want to to do. Like ⁓ provide this place where it's just okay to talk about this stuff. And Lilydale is like that, an in-person place, but you know, it's It isn't super modern and it isn't super user friendly and and so I yeah, you know, and I'm a a tech person basically and so I like kind of nice websites and stuff that works. So, you know, I I couldn't help but put that together and and then it was a place for, you know, the glossary's a great example. It was something that I couldn't fit into the book, the published book. So I took that out and put it online and And then the directory is really important to me too because it's another part of that both safety, because I I both both have practitioners and then a lot of ⁓ resources if you need help. Like so I've got ⁓ therapists and call send call lines or ⁓ hot hot lines and warm lines and cold lines and all that stuff. So ⁓ and support groups and that kind of thing so that you can find community and y classes. Yeah, so it's it's like this hub. that I've been working on. ⁓ but but I actually it's funny you mentioned the merch. ⁓ the first idea was I just wanted a shirt that said that. And then all the other stuff came out of that. I forgot that part. ⁓ because and I was like, ⁓ I'm gonna, you know, drop ship myself one shirt. And then I was like, ⁓ I should have a website. You know, it just like spiraled because I've I've done some work in e commerce. So I kind of just like know how to do that stuff. And it I just spent I've spent now years on all of it. ⁓ so I'm glad glad you've taken a look and you're on there and it's useful. speaker-1: Yeah. And I did see one really, really cool thing, which I was not expecting, but you ⁓ offer to rent your cottage up in Lilydale for people. I mean, it's not like an Airbnb, so it's for someone who wants to really pursue mediumship. So they would rent the cottage for like a set period of time and then kind of integrate themselves into Lilydale and go about ⁓ their teaching, or I should say their education. ⁓ so when did that start and like how has that been going? That is so cool. speaker-0: Yes, I've had a residency at my house since I first moved there in twenty eighteen and then it hadn't been renovated, so it was really rustic. ⁓ but I'd basically when I would go out of town, I would have friends who are artists or musicians come stay at the house and because it's just Lilydale is off the beaten path. It is quiet. It's very it's you know, it is a community of mediums, but it feels like an artist community. Like there's just this ⁓ really ⁓ soothing kind of vibe and I just have been able to make so many like my creativity is is just I don't know super powered there. Not only have I written a ton, but I've made lots of art and just all this stuff has sort of emerged. And I just wanted to give that to other people. So yeah, it started just friends. ⁓ when I would go out of town and then, you know, they'd stay and work on their art projects or music projects and then As the house got renovated, then I started sharing it more widely and then it started being friends of friends and that kind of thing. And now I've moved to back to California, so I'm actually I'm never there and I'm well, I'm I'm there for the tour. ⁓ but I've been renting it. And so it actually it just opened up last weekend. So it's ⁓ it's now I'm looking for for people that want to stay there and yeah, for a little longer ⁓ you know, at a time and get that experience of focusing on your creativity and your connection and your kind of Stepping away from regular life. speaker-1: Yeah, and it that's so interesting because you mentioned something in the book. I feel like this like renting this cottage is the perfect game plan because in the book you mentioned that it's like you can't buy real estate in Lilydale and everything is like a ninety-nine year lease, which I thought that was only for like commercial properties. I didn't that's that's crazy to me. I didn't know that there were communities like that in America. speaker-0: Yeah, it's well, I so the large longer story is I inherited the house. It's been I'm the fifth generation in our family, ⁓ to own it. And I don't actually own the land it's on. I own the house and then I have a ninety nine year lease for the land. It took me even inheriting the house, it still took me three years to take ownership because you have to be a member of a spiritualist church and then you have to apply to be a member of Lilydale, and then you have to wait a year and then you have to apply to own a house. So it's extremely involved and so yeah, i you probably want to rent first. speaker-1: Wow, yeah, that's that's so awesome. And you renovated the house, like gutted it, like took it down to the studs and the pictures on ⁓ normalized talking to the dead, like it just looks incredible. speaker-0: Well, thanks. Yeah, it was a labor of love. speaker-1: Yeah, especially in like negative twenty degree weather under like twelve feet of snow. speaker-0: Yeah, exactly. ⁓ man. speaker-1: Alrighty, so we have reached the spooky er portion of the show. And so for this episode, we're going to kind of turn this into an ask a medium segment. So I've got a series of questions that I would like Tiffany's opinion on as a medium. So I do want to start with your no box research and design firm. So that's technically your day job. ⁓ so how is it that you apply mediumship to this like highly, highly evidence? based and like rigorous scientific field. speaker-0: I love this question. I always get it the other way around. So this is really fun to answer it this way. Because when it comes down to it, I don't use mediumship. I don't talk to the dead in my work, right? On a day-to-day basis. I have to have everything, you know, research needs to be like you s like you said, it's evidence-based. I do a lot of quantitative research ⁓ as well as qualitative, which, you know, talking to people. But What I'm doing, and I think the reason I picked up mediumship the way I did and love it the way I do, is because qualitative research and human-centered research, which is the bulk of my work, is about talking to people and understanding their context and behavior and needs and and judgment and experience. And to do that it it's conversations and it's being next to somebody and it's spending time with them and it's understanding their perspective and having empathy and having a super open mind and knowing that my position and my view and my experience isn't the only one. And that just naturally predisposes me to say, okay, maybe mediumship is something I can try. Okay, when I'm sitting here and saying to you, I'm talking to your loved one who's, you know, on the other side, I have to try to get everything I'm receiving from them and all of that experience and in words give you enough information to understand what it is. And that is in a lot of ways a similar process of, yes, in my day-to-day work I can see all the people I'm working with. They are living humans. They're right in front of me. But I still need to delicately and faithfully take what they're saying and experiencing and and put it down on paper so that other people can understand it. And so in that way I am a medium or in between. speaker-1: Yeah. And you did mention something in the book that I was I was just very drawn to this. You mentioned that ⁓ you've been the most creative person in a room full of tech people and the most technical person in a room full of creatives. And I've definitely felt that way too. I feel like I'm kind of i you know, the saying like jack of all trades. For me it's like master of none. I f I jump around so many times, but it's just cool to interact with someone else and like read their work who's kind of been in the same situation as me. ⁓ so that's that's awesome. I do okay. So on the topic of ⁓ those who have passed, ⁓ what's your opinion? This is so ridiculous, but what's your opinion on the dead internet theory, which it turns out isn't really a theory, it's real. speaker-0: Is this the one that's like they talk about a bit in the ⁓ what's that podcast? The telepathy tapes or? speaker-1: I actually haven't listened to the telepathy tapes, but ⁓ the dead internet theory is like basically it theorizes that the overwhelming majority of traffic on the internet is bots. And ⁓ I've seen a couple of recent articles. I haven't read into them too much, but it's basically confirming that over 50%, maybe like 53% or whatever of the traffic on the internet is just bots. And I've seen that too, like via Instagram and like starting this podcast and having, you know, a public facing account, getting these bizarre like follow requests and comments and things like that. ⁓ so I was kind of wondering, like, is the inner or excuse me, the increased internet bot traffic like, does that kind of affect your work with no box? Is that something that you have to take into account? speaker-0: ⁓ my day job or mediumship? speaker-1: Maybe both. speaker-0: ⁓ okay. So yeah, I don't I wouldn't think it's a theory. It seems pretty measurable and like real. Like especially now that AI is becoming kind of mainstream and people are using it and building their own agents. Like, you know, I never would have had an agent or a bot before and now I have some and 'cause I have all the tools at my fingertips and ⁓ so I think it's only gonna get more intense ⁓ in that way. And so I guess I could talk a bit about like how much AI has impacted everything I do. And that. But I think with mediumship, ⁓ speaker-1: That'd be cool. speaker-0: Trying to think if there's I just When you look at technology, I think there's a lot of tie-ins between mediumships. Mediumship is a spiritual technology, right? And what happens and how we create our technology on computers. And there's some fun kind of metaphoric similarities between mediumship and anything digital because it's invisible to us. speaker-1: Just like ooh. speaker-0: Yeah, so I I think there's a lot of fun ways to understand both, using that that metaphor because it's just our experience with something we don't understand and seems kind of like magic and we can't see or touch. speaker-1: I never ⁓ my God, I never thought of that. That is so interesting. And it's yeah, it's it's funny because I feel like the human interaction with AI, people are it's kinda like people are using it as an oracle. So working in tech, I have seen like people who are very, very skilled. ⁓ and they've been in the industry for years, they'll see, you know, Claude answer a question, then they're like, Okay, like they don't question it. And it's like, well, you know, Claude can be wrong. ⁓ so wow, that's that's cra Yeah. I I never thought of it that way. But yeah, it's something, I don't know, you kind of have to, you know, be objective and stay grounded because it's it's kind of like a magic eight ball. You you get a different response every time. Alrighty. So next question. I do want to kind of cover some Lilydale stuff. ⁓ so did you have any mediumship experiences prior to moving to Lilydale? Like did you maybe you got into mediumship and then you realized Hey, this event that happened years ago was actually someone from the beyond trying to contact me. speaker-0: ⁓ a few in a few ways, yes. ⁓ the first is ⁓ my funny little first ghost experience story, which I'll tell you, and it happened in Lilydale, and that's because my family's been going there, right? So we went there, my uncle got married there in the I don't know, late eighties, early nineties, and ⁓ we stayed at the hotel and I had won a raffle that day with and I won these little toys, like they were Muppets toys. They're like little rubbery Muppet heads. I don't know. I had a and at the end of the day, I'd put them all along the mantle in the hotel, like just put them all along. There was like five or six of them. And then went to bed. And when I woke up in the morning, they were all on the ground. And I've asked my parents as an adult, like, hey, did you guys do that? And they confirmed now, like, no, they they didn't. At the time they said ⁓ of course, you know, my dad was raised in this stuff, so he was like, ⁓ it was a spirit and I was like I believe them 'cause how else would it have happened? I mean, it was weird. They weren't, you know, they weren't super light and I believed my parents and I still believe them now that they didn't do it. It would be sort of a lame trick for an actual person to do. But it was just little and I was like, ⁓ okay, they're here. And then we moved on. It wasn't a big deal, but I I always think about that. speaker-1: I I'm very offended by that ghost who disrespected the Muppets. speaker-0: That how dare you. Yeah. ⁓ and I was just gonna say the other thing is as I started doing mediumship, yes, just I looked back and had so many things that I was like, maybe that wasn't my brain or me thinking about that thing. Maybe there was something else happening, and I'm not just like coming up with all this stuff on my own all the time. And that's sort of a simple, like, it's just a mindset shift and a way of feeling more connected with the world. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily always receiving information from the dead or I'm like everybody's receiving information from the dead all the time. But I do think there's a lot more going on than what meets the eye. And learning mediumship helped me open that awareness to me not feeling so alone. Like everything was just me thinking and me coming up with it. And if I didn't know it, then it that that's it. But ⁓ maybe we can be influenced and have connection with things in the world and places and memories and a lot more than just, you know, you know, a little computer in your head. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. And like just there's so much more than, you know, our brains filter constantly. And there's just there's a big universe out there. ⁓ so let's see. Okay, so your first ancestor who owned the cottage like five generations ago, ⁓ was she involved in mediumship or like did she just buy a house? Yeah. ⁓ nice. speaker-0: No, they were it they were involved. They've all been involved except my dad's generation. And so ⁓ it was my grandmother's grandmother, Mary, who got the house and her husband bought it for her. It's been in women's names and it's been passed on through the women in the family. She left it to her daughter. Her her two daughters and two sons all had a family band who played in Lilydale. ⁓ music was a huge part of Lilydale in those days. both ⁓ part of mediumship and seances, but also social events. They had dances every Friday night and it was just, you know, a different era. This was in the nineteen tens. and yeah, they had the the family band. So as far as they weren't professional mediums, they were professional musicians actually. And ⁓ same all through the line they everybody's been involved in mediumship, but none of us have been registered mediums, which is the professional official Lillidale mediums. speaker-1: ⁓ that's so cool. Like she purposefully Mary purposefully moved to Lilydale with the intention of studying mediumship. speaker-0: Yeah, and actually they didn't move there, it was their summer cottage. ⁓ okay. I'm the first person now, my uncle was lived there for a while full t full time. So I wasn't the first person. But ⁓ for until my uncle moved there in seventy eight, it was always just a summer cottage. So they would come from more central New York in the Rochester area. Mary was actually from Perry Center, if anybody knows rural western New York. and yeah, for the to be in that community and to Yeah, learn and be around other medium. speaker-1: ⁓ my god, that's so cool. okay, let's see. ⁓ big big question, and I want to hear this from someone who has ⁓ history in Lilydale. Were the Fox sisters legitimate or was it a hoax? Because they kept going back and forth. So I'd love your opinion on this. speaker-0: Ooh, great question. I of course don't really know, right? I but I'll tell you based on everything I've learned and my experiences. ⁓ I do think it's a really complicated story. And I have a chapter in my book about mediumship for money and the complex social and economic situation that creates a lot of challenges. and as being a medium and being a professional medium. And they were like, they're definitely not the first. This has been a problem or a a challenge for people doing this kind of work forever. ⁓ but they were the first practicing in this specific vein of me style of mediumship. And so, you know, I would imagine when I imagine myself being a 13-year-old girl who suddenly becomes wildly famous for talking to the dead, that there's going to be a very big pressure to do it well and ⁓ consistently and perform. And so I think what happened is that there's both. There's there's probably something that really happened with them. I think it was nurtured by some of the ⁓ family members and friends and the circles of early spiritualists. And then I think it turned into having to perform. And then it was a financial ⁓ necessity and then it's no longer, you know, something that's fun. These are young girls. They're basically child actors, essentially. Right. And and I think, you know, so I think there's a lot of both things woven together. And the recant and the the confession and the recant that happened at the end, the like most famous one in the newspaper, ⁓ I think she was doing that really to to survive at that point and you know, she was saying it was fake because that's what was ⁓ gonna help her survive at that moment and then she, you know, recanted it because I I find it hard to believe in the people I've known who do ⁓ more magic or illusions or ⁓ mental ⁓ do mediumship or stance style things but intentionally like not for real. I can't remember what exact mentalist that's it. ⁓ I've only known a few, but I've I've ⁓ some have taken my classes and I've talked to them about it and they're like, Yeah, stuff happens. You know, like we we have tools to like make sure it works every time and that it's not real mediumship. And then stuff happens too. And so even the people that say they're doing it that isn't real, like, you know, th there's still something happening under there. Wrong answer. But I don't know what how that matches with we with what you've found. speaker-1: Yeah, that's I think that's a great answer because I think it is pretty complicated and like there's no yes or no. And ⁓ I know I can't remember if it was one sister or both ⁓ descended pretty heavily into alcoholism and then I think ⁓ went on tour to demonstrate how they faked it. And ⁓ that's I mean, they had to make money, you know, it is what it is. So I I don't know, I kind of feel like yes, there was some like trickery going on, but then they probably walked into like some actual paranormal experiences and probably had a multitude of those, you know. So I do have I have one other Lily Dale question since we're in spooky season. So ⁓ what is Halloween like in Lilydale? ⁓ speaker-0: you know, it was honestly a little disappointing for me. ⁓ man. I won't lie. And I think it's a place that they might, you know, expand things in the future. But ⁓ you know, it's a rural town and there's nobody really around. So I thought there'd be like a lot. I and there was like, you know, stuff for kids and I was like, ⁓ that makes sense. It's a neighborhood. But the thing that I thought was most interesting about Halloween there is there is There are two camps when it comes to spooky stuff, and there are some people who are very anti and saying this stuff isn't scary and we shouldn't celebrate ⁓ like the scary or the gory part of Halloween. And then there's another camp that's super into it, right? And and has like the most elaborate decorations and s like celebrates full like the biggest celebration you can imagine. So there's the it's like I hadn't expected to come and meet people who are like kinda Borderline not like anti Halloween because it wasn't the right like vibe for, you know, what they're trying to do. So that I thought was interesting. speaker-1: I can totally see that. I can see that how it's like, hey, this is, you know, something that's taken very seriously and like Halloween is, you know, it's it mocks death. ⁓ so I I don't know, I could see that. I definitely, yeah, that makes sense. ⁓ so there was one thing in the book, well, a lot of things in the book that blew my mind, but one thing in particular that I like I remember it I it stuck with me for a couple days, but you said that you sense the spirit world behind you. I have never ever heard that. I, you know, I grew up Catholic, so I'm always like, ⁓ like heaven is, you know, above us and that sort of thing. And then there was ⁓ one of your instructors who confirmed that like the spirit world is behind you. So is that is that something of that only certain individuals experience? Or is that like a universal truth? Like that's where it is. It's behind us. speaker-0: That's a great question. And first I want to start. I don't think there's any universal truth. So I'm gonna put that right there. ⁓ and it's interesting because one of the biggest things what what the f I remember so clearly the first time I did mediumship, I was in Lilydale, it was like the first week I was there. And ⁓ I was in a circle on a Friday night, like an educational, like a development circle for people to learn mediumship. And I had studied earth-based wisdoms and ⁓ like shamanic journeying. And in that it's a s like very meditational and you move your attention and you like put your ⁓ focus ⁓ into the earth and that's where you do the work. And the first time I did mediumship, she did a meditation and she had us go up. And I was like, like this is a similar modality, like you're Sending your attention into a place and in mediumship it was up. And y you know, because especially spiritual me spiritualist mediumship is really at its core derived from people who were Christian. So up is the place you want to go, right? You don't want to be going down. Around us, there's none of this. It's all, you know, so up is the place. And I really struggled until I found my place, which was behind. And that's just where it was for me. And I tried a few different places. I had a teacher that told me it needs to be twelve o'clock above my head. And I I would do that. And it just nothing really fit quite right until I found it behind me. And that is because I can't see back there. Right. Like that's the that's like the the reason it just makes sense to me to put it there. And I so I move my attention there just like somebody would move it up to you know, connect with heaven or down into the earth to connect with you know, to do a more shaman like shamanistic type journey. So I would say people could put it wherever you want and then you just have to practice it. But it like worked a lot better for me when I made that connection and finally found like my place. So yeah. speaker-1: Wow. Yeah, I love that. Cause like if if you can't see it, you know, it's you're not distracted. It's it's kind of like you're, you know, you're getting a more genuine connection and you're not adding your biases or like whatever onto it. That's so cool. Okay. Man, that's awesome. ⁓ so okay, I have this question because I know we've or not we, I know in the book you mentioned talking to like You mentioned the word like trans physical and that sort of thing. But like have you ever been contacted by a non-human entity and not like an animal, but I'm thinking and or, you know, along the lines of like an alien or like a demonic presence or anything like that? speaker-0: So I haven't really had a lot of experiences where I'm contacted by something. ⁓ I did one time before I even started doing mediumship when I was still studying earth based wisdom and ⁓ learning from a woman who was ⁓ Celtic and ⁓ Yavapai, which is a Native American tradition. ⁓ and I had an experience where I it was like sort of falling asleep and it felt like Something was c sort of coming to me. And I just what my teacher then always taught was just say, like stop them and say, you know, if you're not here for my own, like for me and for my own benefit or for my highest and best or something like that, like you can't come. And I just like stopped it. I just like did that somehow instinctually and was like, no, go away. And ⁓ and it went. And I so it was like a like a falling asleep moment, you know, where you're kind of in between states. So and it was in a I was out camping doing a like ceremony. So it was sort of I don't know. That was the the thing a thing I I still remember that moment in my instinct, how it like helped me s feel safe. ⁓ but the more interesting answer is actually that in my circles I often contact ⁓ fictional characters and work with fictional characters from my own writing and other people's writings. And I love to cool attempt to contact beings from other planets. And you know, that's something that I find very fun. ⁓ I'm I'm into space stuff. speaker-1: ⁓ so like if you contact maybe like a fictional character, like let's say Dorian Gray, that's the first thing, you know, Oscar Wilde. ⁓ first thing that comes to mind, are you contacting like a fragment of Oscar Wilde's imagination? speaker-0: Right? Like I don't know, but yes, and the how it's like existed in our culture too, right? Like that's why it's it's so fascinating because especially a famous character like that that so many people know, it's almost like a person. And when we're talking about a person who's dead, ⁓ there's not a lot of dissimilarities between a person who's dead and someone who never actually existed, but has had a lot of people interact with it in there's a lot of people have memories of that person and you know there's potential that that could have a similar experience as a medium as somebody who died and was an actual person. ⁓ so I don't I don't I couldn't tell you what is happening, but I do find it very fun and it's a big part of my fiction writing process is like spending time with these characters that I'm developing and letting them tell me, you know, who they are and what they want to do and what they're up to. speaker-1: ⁓ my God, that's so I've never heard of that. That's so cool. And I think ⁓ there's some folks listening. I've got some friends who I know want to get into writing and that sort of thing. Like use this. Like use, you know, tap into whoever, and you know, channel. That is so cool. ⁓ my God, I've never even thought of that. That's amazing. ⁓ so I've got two questions left. ⁓ so what are some unexpected improvements in your life? That are a direct result of mediumship. speaker-0: ⁓ So I love this question. And I have a very I have two great or things that have been really important to me. The first is my health, and the second is my relationships with living people and the living world, I should say. ⁓ I did not plan to how do I say this? I did not know mediumship was going to help me with embodiment, right? I've always wanted to be more embodied. I'm a very Head, I always felt like I was sort of a head, a balloon with no body. Like I just am not a super embodied person. And it's something that I really like wanted to have more of, but I didn't even understand really what it meant. And through studying mediumship and kind of a daily practice of spending time basically moving my attention into different parts of my body and just like being there, I've essentially developed more interoception. And introsception is the sense of that we have as humans of the state of the inside of our body. So that means feeling hunger, feeling ⁓ tired, feeling ⁓ thirsty, having your heartbeat fast and being able to feel that, being out of breath. Like all of those things are are it's actually a sense and it's this like a this okay we're revearing the science now. Like this is how we ⁓ understand our physical state and some people have better interoception than others, just like some people have better hearing or better eyesight or different hearing and different eyesight. And my interoception was actually quite bad. And I trained myself to have better interoception. And it has helped my existence so much. And I just never would have thought doing something so unembodied like mediumship would actually help me be more embodied and have a connection with my body and learn to I don't know, have a relationship with it in a better way. So I yeah, that was a shocker. ⁓ and very, very cool. speaker-1: That's amaz that's amazing. speaker-0: I was like I I was gonna pause to see if you wanted to say anything if I can talk about the other one, but that was yeah. speaker-1: It kind of reminds me of like somatic experiencing therapy and which is I mean, that benefits pretty much everyone who tries it. So yeah, maybe if if you're curious about mediumship and you've maybe tried somatic experiencing, you can tap into that. So that's that's awesome. Man, I'm gonna I've got I gotta try that out. speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. And the other thing is that it helped me widen my my understanding of what my relationships are and what counts as support. I think I often struggled as a pretty lonely person in my life 'cause I moved a lot. I've lived all over the world. I've moved like fifty times, like kind of borderline too many too much moving. but ⁓ so I I would always have to meet new people and I kind of had a pretty normal, like in our culture definition of what a friend was and what a partner was and what support was and all of this. And I really just redefined all of that for myself. Like that my pets are, you know, relationships and my house is a relationship and the my ancestors are relationships and I cultivate all of that and they don't all, you know, support me in my physical life, but understanding and seeing all of that is important parts of my my network and my social life has it you know, it's been helpful, I think. speaker-1: ⁓ that's so cool. And that's yeah. I I definitely feel like, you know, for me in particular, ⁓ improving relationships and like reaching out and things like that and like working on my own judgments and insecurities and that sort of thing. Like it's so cool because it sounds like practicing mediumship kind of it takes you so far out of yourself that you're kind of forced to look at, okay, this is how I interact with the world. So that's that's awesome. Yeah. ⁓ So I do have okay, the final question What do you think your life would look like had you never pursued mediumship? speaker-0: Ooh, wow, I haven't thought about that. Let's see. Well, I don't think I'd be as physically healthy and like grounded. ⁓ just based on what we were just talking about. I've had ⁓ it's really helped me through some health issues ⁓ that I've had the last decade or so. And it's also it's just made me a little bit More in this world, which is funny because it's about being out of this world, but it's just it's made me value my physical life and understand my non-physical life as somebody who is very intellectual and heady. A lot of my world was sort of just in my head. And now I'm actually able to focus a lot more on my senses and the world I'm sitting in and the people in front of me. And it's actually helped me ⁓ paradoxically, be more here in the here and now, which ⁓ I'm so grateful for because I just I feel more ⁓ yeah, present and in this this time and space, which was kind of a struggle for me. I was like, I don't know. I I I wasn't always quite like centered and present. And now I just I feel like I have a lot more of that. And I think you can find that through a lot of different ways or things in the world and The fact that it was mediumship I always laugh at. It seems so random. I mean, it's because of my family is the only reason I ever got involved. ⁓ it's not something I would have picked for myself, but it has definitely made my life better, I would say, on the whole. speaker-1: ⁓ man. ⁓ that's so cool. Yeah, it's it's great. It's it sounds like it's just been a journey and it just keeps getting better and better. ⁓ so where can people find you and find your work? speaker-0: Well, you actually mentioned one of the best places, which is normalized talking to the dead dot com and I have an Instagram that's at normalize talking to the dead. That's where pretty much everything I have going on. There's a mailing list on the website and you can sign up. I don't send very many messages. It's like a couple times a year, just what's going on in interesting medium news. And the other is to follow Morbid Anatomy. That's where I do most of my classes. And ⁓ then the book, which I would love for people to read and let me know how you like it. The audio book is available wherever you listen to audiobooks and the book also is online or, you know, any bookstore you can ask them and they can they can get it for you. speaker-1: Perfect. All right. So Tiffany, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining. Do you have any last words? speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ last words. This spooky season, I invite you to spend some time with the non-physical realms, ⁓ imagining that just an imagination exercise where any of the fabulous ideas you have ⁓ might actually be possible in exploring that kind of space because I think ⁓ just having a time where we're A little more open to the veil being thinner is really valuable for for all of us. And so yeah, just just for a moment in one day coming up, just spend some time being like, okay, all this stuff is real. What would that mean for me? What does that change in my life? As a thought exercise. And see what happens. speaker-1: love that that's that is top-tier advice ⁓ for spooky season so we will part with a spooky goodbye goodbye Mm-hmm. Thank you for listening to this episode of SpookyButt. Music by Drew Mantia. Artwork by Lauren Seely. Listen to SpookyButt on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Please be sure to like, rate, and subscribe. Follow SpookyButt on Instagram at SpookyButt Podcast. Need to make contact? Send us an email at spookybuttpodcast at gmail.com. We'll see you on the other side. Goodbye. Ai.