Latest / Books4Guys / The Lost Art of Listening | Terri Lonowski on Leadership and Human Connection

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The Lost Art of Listening | Terri Lonowski on Leadership and Human Connection · Books4Guys

0:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I lived in Denwoody Sandy Springs for seven years.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Lots of rooms in Alpharetta spent.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: I was actually in Alpharetta like three weeks ago.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: My gosh.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me know the next time you're in the area.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Would love to just say hi in person and meet your family, and that'd that'd be kind of cool.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: That would be cool.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: So the company I work with, they're based in they're out of Atlanta in the perimeter area.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I but I spent tons of time in Alpharetta.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, a lot of friends up there.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Um my wife and I, we we loved it.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: But we we met in Nashville, so now we're here and enjoying uh Tennessee.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: But no, Terry, I'm super excited to talk with you as I I I don't know how I came across your profile.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: It it popped up, and I think it's just from the work I do with books for guys and speakers and TEDx uh individuals and authors, and and yours popped up, and I was like, wow, Terry does a lot of cool things and things you've built around listening and being her, and soulful listening is is what you're the founder of.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: And I just found that very intriguing as I haven't had anyone like you who has been focused on making sure people intentionally listen.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, but but but Terry, I would love to for you just to have the mic for a little bit and share your story on just why that became such an important topic for you to to build a business around and to encourage and and just build your platform on.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Gosh, thanks, Chris.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to be here with you.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: And the work that you do just resonates with me and kind of touched my heart with uh, you know, really encouraging men, young and and otherwise, to to really tap into the wisdom of others through through reading books.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: I know that that has been, you know, a guiding force for me throughout my life.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: So I am bravo, bravo on that.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh so you asked, you know, what inspired soulful listening?
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And it really stemmed back from my childhood.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: And my grandma Helga had a way of presencing herself that was transformative.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've ever been in the presence of somebody that can be fully there, the rest of the world fades away, and it's just the two of you deeply connected, it's life-changing.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And so as I've, you know, grown through my career and so on and so forth, at one point I was coaching human-centered design teams from across the nation.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: And at the core of human-centered design is empathy.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And these teams were competing to showcase workforce innovations at the White House.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: And we went a couple of times, you know, my teams were selected.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And what I learned from that was the power of empathy.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: What I also know is that there's more to communication and connecting than just empathy.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: So out of that, I sequester myself and said, what is it that makes it different?
3:17
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
3:18
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
3:18
SPEAKER_00: What's missing?
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And out of that emerge five elements of soulful listening.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And when we, when we, you know, take that forward into today's, you know, modern neuroscience, it makes sense.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it really is true that physiologically we change when we feel heard and when we don't feel heard.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we shut down, we quietly quit.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, we hear a lot of research and, you know, statistics that indicate that only 20% are fully engaged in the workplace.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's from a current study from Gallup.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: And so when you look at that, it has a, you know, a cost factor not only of human potential, but the bottom line to businesses of about$1.2 trillion a year.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Terry, you started, you started this in 2014, I believe, right?
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Kind of officially kicked it up.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: So, and I'm assuming, I mean, I I'm just thinking of of just the time frame of what's transpired in the last 12 years and how how much has taken our focus away from listening, even more so than probably when you started this.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: What are what are some things that you're seeing?
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Because I I mean, I'm calling myself out right now.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I have screens up all day.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm on my phone.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm really trying to listen to the message of of being where my feet are and listening and being present with those I love, with my coworkers, with friends.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: And it is so hard to do.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: It's something I never thought we'd have to really practice at, but with all the distractions, we truly have to be intentional with this.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: But what is your, I guess just what have you seen, you know, over the last decade as you've been sharing this message and just what what are the challenges to this, to where and why are we not good at it?
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, that that is such a complex question and situation.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: And so let me just tease a couple of things out.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, number one, we're not having deep listening modeled to us.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had the good fortune of having a grandma that that could do that.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: But when I go out for dinner and I see a family of four and they're all, you know, like focused on their phone, we're not even having, you know, how to have a regular, just a normal conversation modeled, uh, let alone complex and difficult conversations, which are critical for us to evolve into our highest expression of ourselves.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: And so that is one thing, you know, we're not having it modeled.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Another thing is we're just so distracted.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And I like technology, you know, I'm a fan of it.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I also am a big proponent of human connection.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, we are designed to thrive when we feel seen and heard and supported by others, period.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Absent of that, we fall short of what we could truly become.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: And Terry, I'm sitting here thinking, I mean, we always feel better when we have that human interaction, when we're with friends, when we're with family, we're having dinner and we're laughing and we're sharing stories and we're just having those moments away from the distractions.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: Yet we somehow just keep getting pulled in more and more to those distractions.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: What I guess, what's your approach to coaching people and organizations?
6:49
SPEAKER_01: And I know you speak on this.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: What is your approach and and message on how we can get better at that?
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Or that what are some of those steps we can take to be intentional about being better at that?
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really great question.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: And so I I think maybe sharing a little of the framework of soulful listening would be helpful because it really is at the core of everything I do.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: And that is to help people, you know, rise into their highest potential.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And so the first element of soulful listening is self-care.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And rarely, if ever, do we hear the direct connection made between high quality self-care and high quality communication?
7:30
SPEAKER_00: But it is critical.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: And so when I talk about self-care, it's more than a bubble bath, although that can be it at some times.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: But it really is, you know, looking into what is the loop that's going on in our head?
7:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, what's our self-talk?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: What's our degree of emotional intelligence that we can bring to an exchange?
7:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, are we angry and then euphoric and that's it?
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Or are we tapping into the full range of our emotions?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, when we get triggered, you know, can we just stop?
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Take a breath, get centered, and really be present.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: And so the self-care is essential.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there are more and more studies done on the importance of sleep.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, are we, you know, like running on four hours of sleep a night?
8:25
SPEAKER_00: And what's that doing to our higher reasoning?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: And so self-care is foundational.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: So that's the first step.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: And then we move into the second step of soulful listening, which is becoming fully present.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: And if we are fried, if we haven't slept, we really can't be there for another.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: We need to fill our cup up first.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've heard that before and analogies that go along with that.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: But it really is true.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to come from overflow if we're really to have deep, connected conversations.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And so to become fully present, I love to guide people through an activity of breathing.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: There's one that I really like, which is uh box breathing, and even the Navy SEALs use that.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: So this isn't just hug or tree stuff.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: This is real based in science.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And so what we could do right now is just start to take three three intentional breaths.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: We'll breathe into the count of four, hold, and then breathe out to the count of six.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: So let's just do that now.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Breathe in, hold, exhale.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Two, three, four, five, six.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Again, breathe in, hold, exhale, and a third time.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Breathe in, hold, exhale.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Notice your body now.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: So we slow ourselves down just a beat so that we can be more fully present, more fully in our bodies.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And when we truly take care of ourselves and become present in this way, we're ready for the third element of soulful listening, which is quantum listening.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: And quantum listening, I like to describe it as if active listening and empathy had a love child, it would be this element.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where we're all in.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Listening with every fiber of our being, through all of our senses and nuances, even a little bit beyond that.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: And when we connect in this deeper level, it really provides a safe container for people to be more fully themselves.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And when they do, they often offer, you know, insights into how you might be helpful to them.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And so the fourth element of soulful listening is inspired action.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, we go through the techniques, we nod our heads, we lean forward, we take it in, but then we go beyond that.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: We take action.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's making a phone call, maybe it's making a connection on LinkedIn, maybe it's referring somebody to one of these wonderful books that you promote, you know, so it's very simple.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: And that's very powerful.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, because a person not only feels heard in a superficial level, they have it acted out in inspired action.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: And then the fifth element of soulful listening is really, really important.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's the feedback loop.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: And what that means is circle back, let a m person know, hey, I made a phone call, you should be getting one from another person, rather than leave them in the abyss.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, absent of that circling back, we make up stories.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: We tell a person they didn't even care about me, they didn't hear me, I'm never opening up again.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: So as these five elements are repeated, they embed integrity and confidence within our relationships.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And when we come together again with another person after we've, you know, conducted ourselves in this way, the guard is lowered.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Creativity is opened up.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we really need innovation today.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: And when we have this kind of a way of being in our interactions with others, then we're more free to really offer those messy, innovative ideas where you can and and it is messy, innovation is messy, but you can hold the space for that to happen.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Terry, of the five elements, I'm sitting here just again, as you're speaking, I'm trying to think like, am I doing well here?
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Do I need practice here?
12:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting you talked about the breath work, and we did that.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: I actually just had a high-level basketball coach on recently, and he he talks about the foundation of breath work in his daily life.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: I've had a couple other people talk about that as well.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: That's something I'm working on adapting because it seems to be a trend of something that's very important and can be very helpful.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about the action piece too.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, we I've had several people on who coach around this and talk about like so many of us, we we plan and plan and plan.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: We say we're gonna do something, but just pushing ourselves to push the rock down the hill and actually get something rolling, that effort piece seems to be where people get caught up a lot of times.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: But I'm, you know, I feel like I do pretty decent at that.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: But is there one of these elements that you notice people maybe struggle with or or are better at or worse at as you're kind of, you know, you've been doing this, and I'm sure you kind of keep data on like what people kind of seem to need more help with, or is it just kind of random depending on someone's circumstances and how they grew up and the environment they're in?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes to all of that.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: And and what you know, what I see is the most important piece, it's beginning.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Just begin.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes when we're, you know, exposed to new information and new data and new ways of operating, we can get stuck to where we don't do anything.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: And we think, oh, I need to tackle the most difficult conversation that I've had with my boss, and that's my first one that I'm gonna do.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: No, no, just start start small.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Start now, start small.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Pick one conversation over the course of this next week.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Take a couple of breaths before you enter into that conversation.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Try and really tune in to the person that you're with.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, start there.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Start small.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed a difference?
14:13
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm just thinking of the the time frame of the last 10 to 12 years.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Has there been things that you've added or pulled out of your program?
14:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, like, have these been the same five elements that you've that's been the core of everything since you're since the inception of this, or because of the way technology's transformed in AI and business?
14:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking COVID, we went from being in person a lot, so that human element was a little bit easier to, you know, a fully remote, you know, uh type of interaction.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious, have you had to tweak things over the years just because of what's going on in the world or or how things are?
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, the elements have remained solid, and I I look at that as being a really positive sign because so you know when I come at it any different way, it's like these are these stand true.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: And so there's an element of timeless wisdom embedded in it.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: What I have done uh more recently, probably the last couple of years, I've gotten really clear on the neuroscience that supports this way of being.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And and gotten clear on, you know, maybe offering examples of what happens.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, you know, if you're in a high stress environment and you don't feel heard, what will happen?
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me just give an example.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're we're in a Monday morning meeting.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: This, you know, young rising leader begins to raise her hand.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: The manager keeps talking and talking and talking.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: So she puts her hands down, she looks down, and by Friday she has updated her resume.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: And so what happens, you know, that quiet quitting is, you know, sinister.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: But what happens in our body is when we feel fight flight, when we're under stress, we cannot access our higher reasoning, our prefrontal cortex.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to go into all of that, but but but we know, we know ourselves, we've been in those situations where we've been disregarded or disrespected and we shut down, we closed down.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And what what is happening in the workplace, you know, people are quiet quitting.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: And what that looks like is maybe they are they're giving 80% of what they could intentionally.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, they've they've disrespected me, and I know I could do enough to just not get in trouble, and there we go.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Or what will happen is the quiet quitting goes on for a while, and then there's a new term that's out that is revenge quitting.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And what that looks like is no warning, they just walk out.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: So, so that is, you know, the the magnitude of that happening, you know, specifically in the workplace, is far greater than it was 10 years ago.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I've adapted how I apply these elements.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And when we look at, you know, interpersonal relationships, romantic, romantic relationships, that same kind of quiet quitting can happen.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you feel disrespected, you just won't engage in those more difficult conversations that we need.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm sitting here thinking of a question, Terry, and I may have kind of answered it as I was thinking about some of the things you said.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: It may go back to like self-care.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: But as leaders, I'm thinking of that middle-aged person, you know, 45 years old, you've got kids, maybe you've got two or three, you've got a wife, maybe you're running a company where you've got a hundred employees, you've got your own personal hobbies and and friends, and trying to be intentional with giving everybody the respect and and your listening that they deserve.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: How, and again, it may go back to the self-care to where you can be prepared for all of that, but as someone who's got all of that responsibility, how how do you help that person balance things out to where they can be fully present for each of those people and each of those situations?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Because I know, like even myself, you know, I don't, I don't have kids, but just balancing friends, wife, parents, sister, you know, everyone wants a uh a piece of your time and you want to show up powerfully in each of those situations and for each of those people, how what's the and again, maybe it's the self, you know, uh the self uh taking, you know, taking care of yourself, but how do you work with people specifically on that?
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you so you you know, you're right.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: We we need to be resourced, you know, resourced.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like?
18:47
SPEAKER_00: It's different for every person.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: But maybe you can incorporate some self-care just in your day-to-day, you know, life as you roll through the day.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you have a dog, a lot of people have pets, they go outside rather than just mindlessly walk your dog, notice something in nature and realize that this is self-care.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm taking care of myself because I'm noticing the beauty, the power, the peace within nature.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, it can start out small like that.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: But when we are so depleted, we can't be there for ourselves, let alone another person.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's really important to listen to yourself in this way, not just others.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: So I would start there.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, what am what is my body telling me?
19:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, am I am I quivering with just like exhaustion?
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Did I eat the wrong things for five days in a row?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: And am I, you know, like running on fumes because I haven't slept?
19:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, because when we're when we are more fully resourced, then we can access, you know, our our higher emotional intelligence, you know, rather than to react when somebody else is triggered, because it's so easy.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: When somebody's triggered and they're coming at you and they're bringing all their stuff, it's easy to just go, okay, let's put on the gloves.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: You know.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: But but if you could just pause for a minute, take a couple of these breaths, and realize, you know, have a little compassion with yourself.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: We're not always going to do this perfect.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: But as you, you know, like embody these five elements, it becomes more second nature.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can see that.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: See where I can see where this is something you can practice and get better at, and the capacity can grow to where you can manage more and more at the right levels.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Um again, I'm thinking about that person, maybe they're they just feel a little overwhelmed, but as they do practice that self-care, some boundaries, and then kind of chip away as they get stronger and better at this, then they can manage more people properly, then they can manage more relations, do more things.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think you see those real high achievers.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: You're like, how do you do all of this in a day, you know, and how do you keep up with all these people?
20:59
SPEAKER_01: But it's probably something they've practiced within themselves to find balance, and they're just they're just optimized to to be a machine, you know, in a good way.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, they've practiced over time probably a lot of the things that you talk about.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I'm saying it's so cool as you're talking.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting here thinking of these scenarios and how to be better and how you can how people can Right.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh, you've mentioned having, you know, like professional athletes.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, they didn't start by being a professional athlete.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: True.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, they have maybe they had T ball and then on and on, they've advanced their you know, their skills and same same is true with what I'm speaking of here with the soulful listening.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, just begin and then check in with yourself like a week from now and really review how did those conversations go?
21:48
SPEAKER_00: What was different when I took a breath?
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Listen a little bit different.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, how did somebody respond to me when I followed up, made a connection on their behalf, no strings attached?
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Did our relationship get stronger or weaker?
22:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, and be that as a, you know, like a clue and a cue to you whether to continue on.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:09
unknown: Yeah.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was going to say, as you're talking, I'm thinking of this as it kind of goes to another piece of this.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's just a little bit of patience and putting in the work.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think a lot of us now we're so it's hard.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: We we we almost have to get to a point to make ourselves do hard things because we're just, you know, with AI and everything being at ease.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: And if anything's any sort of hard now, we kind of freak out.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: But these are things that you have to be intentional about and practice, and you'll feel better about it over time as you put in the work to practice this and see the progression uh that takes place over maybe four weeks, 12 weeks, six months, a year, and you can look back and be like, wow, I've started implementing these changes in my life doing these certain practices and look where I'm at now.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's continue.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I want people to hear that.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: And as you were saying that, it you have to put in the work and be intentional behind it.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: And you know, another beautiful thing about being this way is it has a ripple effect.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, you might not need to make a big proclamation.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I am now sitting in this way.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: But as you do, people respond to you differently.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: And they're, you know, they get might get curious and say, you know, she didn't just like blow up at me when I came at her with this, you know, like hot topic.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: So you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Love that.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Terry, I this is such good.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: I love this conversation because it's just I love anything that involves personal development, just improving as a perf as a person, improving as a human being.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh, like I mentioned, we have all this AI and automation stuff, and and the human piece is has never been more important.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: And and to to practice and be better and good at that, to make sure we we hang on to that element, I just think is so important.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: But Terry, I've really got I've got one more question for you.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like you know, we're not sharing a whole lot, but it sounds like you're in the process of writing a book.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: I am.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for mentioning that.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: So it it it will be for the workplace, soulful listening for the workplace.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be weaving in this wisdom from Grandma Helga and neuroscience and giving real life examples, and it should be fun.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: It should be fun.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: So we're we're in the process of getting an agent and a publisher, and we'll hopefully be out there soon.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then when it is published, we will have it on the Books for Guys website, and we'll be sharing it, and we'll be putting that out there so everybody can go read it.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: But that leads into my my very last question, Terry.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: And I ask everyone this who comes on the podcast just from a book standpoint, yeah.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I just I'm curious, and I know a lot of listeners and watchers are too, but I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally, and what's a book that you like to recommend to other people?
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I would recommend these two that I'm going to going to mention now.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: One is it's been out there a long time, and it's Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that Napoleon Hill did is he interviewed people that were very successful in a variety of field fields, and he learned from them.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: And we could learn from Napoleon.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's not about necessarily, you know, the dollar sign, but it's really about the relationships and what we learn from one another.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: So I find that to be a value, timeless value.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Another one is the alchemist.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if you're familiar with that one, but I find great wisdom in that.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the one of the quotes in it, and I'm going to just kind of paraphrase it is when you decide upon something and take action, the universe conspires in helping you.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: So I believe that to be true.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: And my grandma Helga, you know, would share wisdom with me.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that she said that I love to share too is I was in the process of making a decision, you know, like what to do next, what to do.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Am I ready to do whatever?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And she said, Terry, all you have to do is decide what you want to do, take steps toward doing it, and imagine what it's going to feel like when you've done it.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Very simple, right?
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very simple.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Don't need to overcomplicate it.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Just figure out what you want, go get it.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Terry, great, great recommendations.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for for taking the time to come on here and just share, share your mission and purpose of what you're doing in the world and all the positive that you're you're a part of.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait until your book does come out.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I'll be very excited to read it and share it.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: But no, Terry, keep keep spreading the message that you are, keep coaching around that because I don't think it's ever been more important with the amount of distractions that we have out there to really focus in on listening to each other and hearing and being present.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: And so very, very honored to have you on the podcast to share more about your work.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: And again, look forward to your book coming out.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: We'll be very excited to showcase it.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Chris.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: It's been my pleasure.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Terry.