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What are you building?: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast the First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share our sermons, but
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  to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're learning and
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  what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  The conversation you're about to join was inspired by our Spring
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  Mixtape 2025 non series sermon series.
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  Rather than a series, this will be a collection of sermons based
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  on what God is leading us to preach on this spring.
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  You can find out more information about our church at
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  fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for joining us for this
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  conversation. Welcome to this episode of
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  Beyond the Sermon. Thanks for joining us for this
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  conversation. Jeremy preached for us this week
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  from First Corinthians Chapter 3.
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  And Jeremy, I want to start off with the question that I'm sure
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  was on everyone's mind as they were leaving the service
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  yesterday. What is a Kodjic Church?
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  Christ Church of God in Christ. Yeah, I believe so.
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  I I didn't even know that they were a Kodjic church until I
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  drove by it again in the past year because I just knew them by
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  like the title of the church. But yeah, Christ of God in
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  church, I mean. Church of God in Christ, Yeah.
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  Yeah, just another denomination. Yes, another denomination, yeah.
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  What do you use that term, that term in your sermon?
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  I was like, no one knows what that means.
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  No one. I'm glad.
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  I'm hoping. People are Googling.
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  Yeah, there you go. And it is the same denomination
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  that Denzel Washington was ordained into.
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  Oh, is that right? Yeah.
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  OK, there you go. You started off talking about
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  your friend Dave Damian down in Mexico and but then quickly kind
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  of took us into these different passages through scripture that
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  talk about a couple, right? And Priscilla and Aquila.
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  Always interesting to me that Priscilla is always listed
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  first. Not always.
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  Not always, but almost always. Almost when Paul's referring to
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  her. Yeah, almost always, yeah.
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  But yeah, I, I think I touched maybe more on that in the first
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  service than the latter of like the importance of Priscilla and
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  like what that could have potentially meant.
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  I gave some more options in regards to her place in the
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  church or the community or as a businesswoman or whatever it may
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  have been. Also that like she's mentioned
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  at all because usually sometimes with the men, like, it's assumed
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  there's the woman there or the family, right?
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  Like even when we talk about the feeding of the 5000, like is the
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  assumption of 5000 men and their families.
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  Yeah. And so it really shows her
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  place. But then I touched in the first
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  service about how, like, every man in ministry knows that
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  there's like the other half, the woman that supports that
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  encourages that, you know, is the backbone of the ministry.
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  And then Rebecca was in in the second service when I got to
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  that part. So I didn't mean to build her up
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  like that on Mother's Day. Yeah, there you go.
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  There you go. But that is always interesting
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  to me that Paul plays such a priority on her among all the
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  other women that he lifts up throughout his letters and and
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  stuff like that. Even even in, I forget which one
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  because they're playing together now, but even in one of them,
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  right before Priscilla and Aquila, there's another woman
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  that's being greeted or sending greetings from at the same at
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  the same time. Yeah, all these women in
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  ministry, Yeah, very early on. Stop taking credit, Methodists.
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  We didn't. We didn't come up with that
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  idea. We just let it keep going.
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  Yeah, one of my little tidbit opinions that I have absolutely
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  no way to prove about the Bible is that Priscilla was maybe the
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  the chief author of Hebrews. And that's why the the author
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  never identified themselves, because even in that culture,
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  women in ministry, even though it was happening, still didn't
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  quite have the same. Why her other women in the
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  ministry at that time? Just specifically, like there
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  are so many resonances with Paul's thinking and because of
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  the time he spent with them and they were discipling him and.
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  And that. Yeah.
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  And so. And all the all the churches of
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  the Gentiles are grateful to them, maybe potentially because
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  of writing that was passed around.
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  But but then again, you know that heart, like knowing that
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  she and Aquila were Jewish in their background.
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  And so to have a heart for those Jewish believers spread around
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  and, and wanting to help bridge that gap because they'd been
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  around that they'd been in Rome, they'd been in Corinth, they
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  ended up in Ephesus, You know, then I'm sure God developed in
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  them a heart, not just for the Jewish people there, but for the
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  Gentiles and for helping them see what God had done through
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  the Old Testament in the person and work of Jesus.
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  Anyway, can't prove it, but I'd love to ask somebody someday
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  when I get to heaven, whoever that person might be.
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  Anyway, though, back to your sermon on Sun We.
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  Can talk about anything else that's OK.
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  You won't bring it back to croconol.
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  I would be. Did you watch?
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  The video no, come on, no, no, I was too busy changing your your
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  your description that put the fasting sermon as my plagiarism.
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  Well, you never. Found the thing that you
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  plagiarized. You never found it and sent it
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  to me. Oh, plagiarized is such a strong
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  word. It's such a strong word, that's
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  why I use it if I'm calling it the Scott Show man.
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  It's inspiration. It's it's how God.
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  'S speaking inspiration to say the exact words of the last.
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  Person, I really don't think I did, no I but it did spark a
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  spark, a thought that grew. Well, that's a thing nowadays if
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  you will. Come on sermon copying where?
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  Like down to like the hand gestures?
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  Oh yeah, pastors just copying like mega church pastors.
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  Yeah, it's, it's a real thing, Yeah.
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  So don't look up our sermons and other mega church pastors.
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  I mean, if a mega church pastor wants to copy one of our
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  servants, they can. But by all means.
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  Anyway, so you shared in your sermon about your friend Damian,
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  but I wonder if there's anyone who's played kind of this role
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  in your life, someone who's been kind of like Priscilla and
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  Aquila and kind of taking you under their wing, so to speak,
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  like they did with Paul. And then Apollo's, Oh, kind of
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  raised you up in your faith. I'm I was thinking of like Co
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  worker in Christ versus like discipling in the home.
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  OK, types. I mean, we could go there too,
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  no? No, you're fine.
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  Yeah, because I was. I'd say the reason why I used
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  Amianos is like. I didn't want it to seem like I
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  had any favorites if I mentioned anybody like.
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  Oh, sure. Here and that's why I mentioned
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  like that that didn't happen in the first service, but that was
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  one of the things that like in the Pew, I just felt like God
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  was nudging me to. So in my in my written copy in
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  what I did in first service, I didn't mention I didn't do
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  denomination and then break it down to the individual and
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  individuals of other churches being like Co workers in Christ
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  or like who we partner with in ministry.
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  And I felt like, yeah, I was pushing that.
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  So to to see a high school student just do that anyway.
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  But in regards to take me into their homes and disciple me, I
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  was in my in my home church. There was a few families that
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  kind of did that, but it wasn't like me specifically, like they
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  did it in general. And I got to be a part of the
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  things and that was really nice. And then I will I mean through
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  our I brought it up before the not so ready for prime time
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  singers where we go and see shut insurance.
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  We'd always have dinner together before we went out.
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  And so OK, shut it. And so we were like always in
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  each other's homes and rotating who was hosting the group every
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  couple of weeks. So that just made other people's
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  homes feel like home and feel like community.
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  And then in ministry, I mean, Demondiardo, yeah, I mean take
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  you in feel at home and speaking biblical truth in your life,
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  1000% First one that comes to mind and does it well, like you
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  when you're hosted by Deb, you're hosted by Deb.
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  I think there's there's. Definitely a gift, a gift of
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  hospitality. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how
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  to how to explain it well, but yeah.
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  And yeah, she's just too good to us.
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  And I think if anyone has similar giftings to Deb and is
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  able to use it in the way that she has, it can drastically
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  change anyone that walks through the doors of their home.
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  Yeah, that would be my my answer.
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  How about you, anyone growing up?
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  Because you can't say Deb after I said Deb.
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  True. Anyone growing up there?
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  There is a couple that volunteered with the youth group
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  that I was part of through high school and they were, they were
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  super intentional with me. But like not just me, but a few
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  specific of, of the kids in the youth group that just kind of
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  seemed like connected and, and that kind of thing.
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  And so they would be one of them.
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  And similarly, the, the youth leaders that we worked with when
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  we were at Asbury, Meg and I, she started her freshman year.
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  And then after we started dating a while, I jumped in and was
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  working with the youth too. And so Jim and Lori were great
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  ones. And you know, there would be
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  times where they'd have the whole youth group over to their
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  house and stuff. And then once all the kids left,
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  you know, we'd sit and hang out with them for a while more.
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  And they kind of took us under their wings.
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  They were both Asbury grads and stayed in the area.
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  Yeah. So that would be a few of them.
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  Yeah. And then as far as ministry
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  goes, I'm trying to like, think beyond the obvious answers of
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  like Ron, who was a senior pastor, where when I was the
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  assistant pastor, but also had been our pastor at St.
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  John's bit had been, you know, my boss and seminary president
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  and longtime family friend and all that kind of stuff.
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  I'm trying to think who else besides there's a couple while
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  we were in seminary, Chuck and Fran, and they just welcomed us
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  into their family. They were part of the church
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  plant that we were part of. And so they'd have us over for
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  meals. We're in a small group together
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  for a while. They had kids who were like
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  early high school and middle school probably when we met and
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  just invited us to kids games to different celebrations.
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  Took us down to their family cabin one time like just really
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  brought us in. And Fran ended up babysitting
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  Tim for like 6 months after he was born while I finished up
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  seminary on Friday mornings. So I'd go drop him off.
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  I'd have, I didn't work on Fridays.
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  And so I would get, you know, some 3 or 4 solid hours to, to
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  really study and work on stuff for seminary.
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  And so, yeah, they'd be another one that was kind of while we
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  were in ministry. Like I was doing stuff with the
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  media side of the church plant. Meg was doing curriculum stuff
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  for the kids but. I haven't heard Chuck and Fran.
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  Yeah, not as much since I've become a pastor because I think
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  it changes the dynamics in other people's minds.
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  It's a little harder in that sense, but.
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  I like not being in charge. I hate this part.
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  So you did such a good job of like you laid out the different
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  passages and then you you made the shift to talking about the
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  synergism stuff and Paul and Apollo's and you got very
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  specific this time. I'm just going to edit out the
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  rest of the podcast and just put that.
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  Yeah, be planning to preach this sermon.
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  How long were you working on this one?
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  The idea for it happened Monday, I believe.
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  So then Tuesday night we're a prayer session and I have my own
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  little kneeling chair in the back and I'm praying and praying
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  and praying. And I'll tell this guy, I don't
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  really know how to describe it, but like I was praying and then
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  I was praying. So like I went from consciously
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  praying to consciously praying. Not about the sermon.
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  And for those that have been to any of our prayer sessions,
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  there's like read the scripture, meditate on the scripture, kind
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  of like a free flowing prayer time.
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  And then there's a transition into Popcorn prayer.
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  And so like Scott'll go up, let us know we're transitioning
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  Popcorn prayer. I'm praying, consciously
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  praying. And then I'm consciously
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  praying. And out of nowhere, Steve's
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  Steve Shock is praying out loud. And I was like.
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  As part of the popcorn prayer as part.
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  Of the popcorn prayer. And I'm like, did he just jump
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  start the popcorn prayer? Like what is happening?
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  And then I looked at the clock and we were at the time frame
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  where we would have been in the popcorn prayer for about 15
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  minutes at that point. Yeah.
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  And he wasn't the first one to pray that night.
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  So then I'm, I'm like, I didn't fall asleep because it wasn't
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  like a, a jolt awake, like, whoops.
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  Oh, I was supposed to be praying and I've never fallen asleep
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  kneeling and praying before. Yeah.
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  So it's just a very odd experience.
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  We like consciously praying to consciously praying and there'd
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  be a gap of time in between. And so I don't know what God was
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  doing in that time. But afterwards I had a little
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  headache for whatever reason, I don't normally get headaches,
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  but then I also just felt very at peace with doing this sermon.
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  And so I was just like, that's really weird, really weird
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  encounter. But if that's what it takes.
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  So from there, then I reached out the next day to music, let
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  him know what I was going to do. And then as I'm prepping and
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  preparing and going through things, I think it was Thursday.
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  It was better Thursday morning. Bulletins have to be printed.
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  And Murray wanted a sermon title.
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  Like, I hate coming up with sermon titles.
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  So we start like, talking through, like, what I'm going to
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  be talking about. And then I was like, wow.
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  I want the individual to think about like, what are you
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  building? Not just like, what are we
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  building as a church, but like, what are you intentionally
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  building? And so I was like, I'll build it
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  up, build, build my life. Like that should be involved.
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  And if it's already involved, I want it moved to to be the
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  closing 1 so that as we're walking away with what are you
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  building, then we go into that song.
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  Yeah. And so I hope that was a
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  blessing or fruitful for people as they're in worship
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  experience. But yeah, it was, Oh yeah, that
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  was the other thing. The whole there's, there's a
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  couple sections in the second service that either were
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  provided and it wasn't like, oh, I wish I'd changed that.
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  And then I changed it in between services.
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  It was like, as I'm sitting in the Pew just like God and
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  pressing on me to like throw in this tidbit here, there or take
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  out certain little sections. And so I don't know who it was
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  for or what it was for, but I'm sure he does.
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  God will use it, yeah. Yeah.
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  Somehow, someway. So as as the person who doesn't
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  preach every Sunday here at the church, talk to me about the the
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  difference between being given the freedom, just kind of preach
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  whatever God's laying on your heart versus jumping in in the
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  middle of a series that I've been preaching.
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  Oh, completely different animal. I would say the beginning part
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  of preparing when jumping into a sermon is easier because you
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  already have a direction you haven't, you know, all that kind
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  of stuff. But then for me, the middle and
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  end of that, the putting the pieces together so that it like
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  comes in from the One Direction of the series and kind of helps
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  lead into the next or, or just trying to make something that my
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  brain understands or, or relay it in a way that makes sense.
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  I don't know. I really struggle in that middle
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  and and later half of sermon prepping when it comes to like
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  the one offs. I struggle with coming up with
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  the idea. But then once like God leads me
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  to an idea, then it's easier for me to go with it, get where it's
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  going because then like, OK, I know this is the like overall
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  message. Here are the pieces he wants me
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  to include. Maybe I need to look into one or
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  two here or there. I prefer this or even if it's
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  just like scripture, like instead of saying like the theme
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  is loving our neighbors. Preaching style for me is much
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  harder than teaching style, which some people would argue
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  that say, but like I teach very different than I preach.
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  And so teaching on a topic versus preaching on a topic
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  would be way easier for me because then I can just like lay
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  out all the Bible facts and jump you in a cohesive line of
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  questioning around those Bible facts.
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  But preaching on that is tough. But if you give me just like a
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  chunk of Scripture and we just see where the Scripture leads
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  and yeah, that kind of stuff, that's also different.
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  I can't remember if it's if I'm an inductive or deductive
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  thinker, a preacher, whatever. What's hardest for you?
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  Yeah, by personality, I I like knowing where we're headed.
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  And so having a series in place where I can think about not just
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  an individual sermon, but you know, kind of the, the whole
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  spread across the series. I appreciate having that time to
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  be able to develop themes and ideas and bring different pieces
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  that connect and, and build the fuller picture.
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  And so individual sermons that are just kind of independent of
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  anything else. Definitely harder for me, but
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  God still shows up and he still helps.
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  And like these last couple sermons that I've preached,
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  finding the forge and whatever the one before that was.
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  Oh yeah, finding the forge. And then you're going to need a
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  bigger boat when I ruin Jaws for everybody.
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  He didn't ruin jobs, he just spoiled it for the next
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  generation. Well that's another thing is
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  that in regards to remembering sermons.
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  Is that people anticipate that you have every sermon you've
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  done memorized. Yeah, now another chance.
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  And so like they like God spoke something that clicked with
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  them, that resonated with them that that they've held on to and
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  has been either encouraging, illuminating, whatever it may
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  be. And then they're like, Oh, yeah,
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  remember when you preach about blah, blah, blah, it sounds
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  familiar. Like it sounds great.
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  It sounds like I need to hear that truth again.
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  But like, it's, it's not that, you know, I dwell on on those
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  things like a guy. It very much for me here feels
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  much more like just passing it on from God.
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  Yeah. And.
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  And I think that's exponentially more true when you're preaching
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  week after week after week after week.
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  You know, like as part of my annual review with the SPR, one
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  of the questions I ask them is what sermon or sermon series was
• 21:30
  most meaningful to you over the last year?
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  So like from June last year through May this year or
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  whatever, and somebody said something about a heart like
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  his, the series we did on David in the fall.
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  I was like, no, that wasn't this year like that, right?
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  Like part of me had had forgotten that was even within
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  this school year. It feels so long ago in my
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  thinking about preaching. There's just been so much since
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  then. And it's not to say that we're
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  detached from the information that we're relaying and that
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  it's we're so immersed in it in that time, and God's using it to
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  form us, to push us, to have us raise other questions and draw
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  closer to him. But then luckily, I think it's a
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  giant blessing and our lives that it's not like that's the
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  only time that he speaks to us. Then we hold on to that one
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  thing like as he's continuously speaking to us and we're drawing
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  closer to him, that that's not like the freshest thing on our
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  mind that God has spoken into us or through US, right?
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  And therefore. You know, because at least for
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  me, most of the time, the by the time I get to preaching
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  something, I've been living with those thoughts for, Yeah, weeks
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  or months. Or, you know, like with that
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  series, I started reading in, in first and second Samuel and
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  reading a couple different books, looking at things
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  sometime in the middle of the summer, you know, And so like,
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  I'm, I'm living in that stuff, preparing, knowing what stories
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  we're going to highlight and those kind of things and seeing
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  how they fit together and how they help build this picture of
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  who God is in David's life and can be in our life.
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  I'm preaching out of what God's already been doing in me and
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  preaching the sermon. And then really this
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  conversation for the podcast. That's kind of the cap on that
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  one. And I'm, you know, on to the
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  next one I'm writing, I'm whatever.
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  Or as I was preaching that one, I was already researching and
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  reading on stuff for the next series.
• 23:55
  And so I, I think that's the hardest part about being the
• 24:01
  week by week preacher is preaching in the moment.
• 24:04
  And that being kind of the not the starting point of what God's
• 24:08
  doing, but like clear points in people's reception of that,
• 24:14
  like, and that might start something for somebody, but for
• 24:18
  me, it's kind of the end of the journey with that and living in
• 24:22
  the what's coming next and what needs to happen now and all that
• 24:30
  kind of stuff. So like, even as we're doing
• 24:32
  these individual sermons, I'm already thinking and praying
• 24:35
  about like, all right, what am I doing at the end of June?
• 24:38
  Check, got that one. What am I doing for the summer?
• 24:41
  Oh, that still needs a good bit of work.
• 24:45
  And so living in that tension of right now, but also what's
• 24:51
  coming in the next season. So show up on Sunday and find
• 24:57
  out what God did lay on my hard to preach and we'll we'll figure
• 25:03
  that out together. And if he doesn't and Scott
• 25:06
  starts Youtubing mega church pastors to copy, I'll send you
• 25:10
  that link in the show notes. Or if I mysteriously get sick on
• 25:14
  Saturday again, you'll know why. Well, that's our conversation
• 25:22
  for today, but that doesn't mean the conversation is over.
• 25:25
  We'd love to hear your thoughts on these topics as well.
• 25:28
  To ask a question about anything we've discussed in this episode,
• 25:31
  or to join the conversation, you can head over to
• 25:34
  fumccollingswood.org/podcast. Thanks for being part of this
• 25:39
  conversation.