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Heavy Hitters - The Three Greatest Rock Drummers Explained · Dirt Nap City - History's Most Interesting Dead People

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_06: Hello everybody.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_06: Welcome to another episode of Dirt Nap City, the podcast about interesting dead people.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_06: My name is Alex.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_06: I'm here with my friend Kelly.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_06: What's up, Kelly?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_06: Hey man, good to see you.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you know, we're into 2026, pretty solid.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, so far this year's going pretty well.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_04: How's it going for you?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_06: It's going good, but I noticed uh there's another person in the room here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_06: Oh shoot.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh and uh and this isn't common.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: This is kind of like you ever have one of those Zoom calls where like everybody shares the same Zoom account and then somebody else joins uh like and you're still doing your previous meeting talking about the person that just joined, just like that.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I guess.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: I guess.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: This is my friend Matt.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, hey Matt.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: Matt is somebody I have known since college.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I've known I've known Alex since high school.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: Matt Matt and I met, we played Ultimate Frisbee together, we've done a lot of mountain biking trips and camping and stuff like that together.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: But here's the secret thing about Matt.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: Matt is a extraordinary drummer.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: And he is also, I will say, probably in the top three of our fans.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: There's your mom, there's my mom, and then there's Matt.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: He's he's number three.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: And more than Alfred from Austin.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, well, that's it's a toss-up between those guys, I have to say, but Matt actually has randomly called me.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: And here's the thing today, nobody talks on the phone.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: You don't get phone calls from very many people.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: Usually it's a text or an email.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: He's called me, and I'm like, oh man, I hope nothing's wrong.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: I hope, you know, I hope he's okay.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: He's like, dude, I just listened to your episode about whoever and Typhoid Mary.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: Typhoid Mary, and here's some, here's some, here's some thoughts.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: And he so he's he's very invested in the show.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: Give notes.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: Matt, give notes.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: So so Matt, why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself and uh let me let me ask you before you do that.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_06: Do you ever say you ever correct us?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_06: You ever say, I don't know what he was talking about, typhoid Mary.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_06: She infected 250 people, not 187 people.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_06: Are you are you that guy?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_06: Fact check.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_06: Only a couple of times that I can recall.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um one just recently, there was a quote that I think you guys attributed to someone that was incorrect.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_05: It might uh and I'm forgetting what what the quote was.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, um, but I felt the need to correct that.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um but I did that over dinner.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_05: I wasn't a I didn't make a phone call.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_06: So and you realize when you're correcting it, it's already out.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_06: That's right.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_06: If you want to take the opportunity to correct anything we've ever said, this is the time to do it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_06: No, you guys are awesome.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, maybe maybe we need a QA staff or a better QA staff than then uh you don't need anything.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: No, you all are all good.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_06: Well let me just say uh before before you introduce yourself, Matt, that I've um I I love drumming.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_06: I a couple years ago I decided I was gonna take up drumming.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um and I didn't, but I bought the sticks and I brought a practice, I bought a practice pad.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_06: That was all the money I was willing to shell out because I know that could be a money pit getting into it.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I haven't done that, but I there's still time for me.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_06: But I've never really spent time with any drummers before, and I have um at some point in this podcast, maybe at the end, I have six questions that I've always wanted to ask a drummer.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_06: So we'll save those for the end.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_06: Excellent.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but there's six questions that I've always wanted to know and never known who to ask.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_06: No, I'm your I'm your boy.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: Let's save some time to do that.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_06: All right, so tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_05: When did you start drumming, Matt?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, before I was 10 years old.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: My older brother um played the drums, and my parents bought him a kit, a drum kit, and also called a set, and um he stopped playing, so I inherited it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_05: And it was kind of a crappy kit.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_05: I got my first real kit when I was 13.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_05: So I I started playing kind of in earnest and all the time uh when I was around 13.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_06: Do you just add things to the kit as you get older?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_06: Uh or do you get better kids, or how does that work?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_06: That's funny.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um so when I started drumming a lot, I was listening to Rush, I was listening to uh Genesis, and both Phil Collins and Neil Peart um both use huge kits.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_05: So I added all kinds of stuff to my kit that I bought initially.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um I've scaled it way down, I don't do any of that anymore.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_05: My kit right now is this a really kind of sort of essentials kind of five-piece kit.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_05: Uh standard, standard drum kit.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_05: But um, yeah, I had all kinds of stuff at one point.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_05: Is the cowbell essential?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: I don't have one currently.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I guess uh it might be number six.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you were to add one more thing, since you have what what are the five essentials of a drum kit?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um well, it's the drums themselves.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_05: It's a snare drum, it's a bass drum, and then usually three tom-toms.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, so you're not even counting symbols.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: You don't count cymbals, don't call yeah, you don't count pedals or any of that stuff or percussion or anything like that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's usually where you start, and then you know, then it's personal preference after that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: Learned something already.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, let's hang out.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: That was Dirt Nap City, everybody.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for tuning in.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um so today we are gonna kind of do a little bit of a different format.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: So with Matt being a drummer, he's got a strong opinion on rock and roll.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: And for those of you that don't know, Alex and I attended the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in what, two or three years ago, had a great time, toured the whole thing, did some episodes about is rock and roll dead.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: We've talked about um several rockers, including John Lennon on this show, uh, including Bob Marley at you know rock and roll tangential.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: But today, Matt is gonna take us through a a guided tour of three of the best rock and roll drummers in history of the world.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: Four.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: There's a bonus.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: There's a bonus.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: There's four.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: Now they're dead, though.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: They're dead.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: And they're interesting because they play the drums really well in some bands that you probably knew.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: I have a strong opinion about one of them, and I I think I think, Alex, you might as well about it a same one or maybe a different one.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: But I think there's going to be some lively debate about who the best drummer ever was.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: So, Matt, can you kind of introduce us to the ones you've selected as your finals?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, or how whatever format you want to go with.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to talk about one at a time, or if you want to just start it up, tell us, tell us how we're going to do this.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I thought we would do one at a time.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_05: There are four drummers.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_05: Three of them are very well known, like number one, two, and four, I think, in the Rolling Stone uh list of 100 top drummers.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um, the other one that I'm gonna end with is number 759, I think, which is an absolute travesty, um, and shows the worth of that particular list.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_05: But um, so I was just gonna work through them one at a time.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um you will you will again you'll recognize the first three, and then then we'll go to number four.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I think there's a good good segue from from those three into this fourth guy.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: So um, yeah, you wanna wanna jump in?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I do.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess just real quick, um, just just so we understand.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, you said this was number one, two, and four on Rolling Stones pick, which you know, they know some stuff about music and rock and roll.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: For you, you you picked, well, you you didn't pick number three.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: You you went against their thing, and then you picked number 59 in this list.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: What is your criteria?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_05: Well, uh, so numbers one and two, and I'll just cut to the chase.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_05: That's John Bonham and Keith Moon.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: John Bonham from Led Zeppelin, Keith Moon from two.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_05: There's really not a lot of debate about, you know, some who who is the greatest drummer, or let's say the top five drummers.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_05: Keith Moon and John Bonham are always in that list.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_05: Neil Peart is number four, and he he's also on, you know, gonna we're gonna talk about him today.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_05: Universal uh consensus that he's one of the greatest drummers.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_05: So, but they're also really interesting fellows in their own right, um, which is why I brought him on, but I mean, or why I added him to the list.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_05: They're kind of the drummers that most rock and roll historians or folks that listen to a lot of rock and roll would recognize and would, you know, if they listen to the drums at all, would kind of consider to be some of the greatest drummers.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_05: So that was um that was really all that's all it was.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I have a list of you know, 10 or 20 other drummers that are incredible.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and um, but you know, I thought we would stick with certainly ones that are dead, uh, but also ones that are interesting and ones that people would recognize, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: That is a requirement.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_05: Was number three alive or just not your cup of tea?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: I can't remember who's number three, to tell you the truth.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_05: Uh don't remember.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_06: But that's like when only whenever Kelly and I talk about guitar players, inevitably uh I'll bring up Ingve Malmstein, who is technically like a great guitar player, but nobody wants to listen to it because it's it's it's not very pleasing to the ear, and nobody could duplicate it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_04: That sounds like our podcast, Alex.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: Technically, it's great, but uh, you know, very accessible.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: By the way, I I just got on Rollingstone.com.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: Ginger Baker is number three according to Rolling Stone.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: So there you go.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: Well, so I was prepared to talk about him.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we can do it now if you want.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: I am not a huge Ginger Baker fan, and I was just listening to him this morning on the way here to remind myself why I'm not.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_05: Technically, he he is a great drummer, but I absolutely hate the way his drums sound.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: They are super um, he tunes his drums super tight, tightly, like a jazz drummer.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but the way that they were recorded to me is just does not sound good to my ear.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's kind of tinny and and flat and um very different than Bonham, certainly, and definitely very different than Neil Peart.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so and and I'm also not a huge cream fan, so that's the whole you know part of it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, do you like their music and do you like their drummer, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um a lot of people believed ginger drummer, ginger baker was the greatest drummer of all time.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: First guy to use a double bass drum kit, you know, like extensively.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: But frankly, John Bonham did more with one bass drum than Ginger Baker could do with two.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm just not a huge Ginger Baker fan, as you can tell.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it's interesting you say that because I always thought that was like a producer's choice, but I guess it's true that the drummer like uh Chad Smith from Red Eyed Chili Peppers.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_06: I know when um their albums sound different depending on who produced those records, but I guess ultimately it's his choice on how he wants his drums to sound, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it's a great point.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: The the engineer, the mixer, whoever, I mean, has you know basically control over how everything sounds, including the drums.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_05: But the great drummers knew the sound that they wanted, and they got it, no matter what.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: And and again, to me, just ginger baker's sound, just to me, it just doesn't it doesn't sound good to my ear.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_05: It must to many other people's ears, but to mine it just doesn't.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_05: So Okay.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: Well well, let's start with your first one.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: Who who do you want to who do you want to cue up first?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's go to Keith Moon.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so Keith Moon, drummer for the hoop, obviously, number two on the list.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome, awesome drummer.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um he's born in 1946 in in uh went Wembley, Middlesex, England, died at 32 years of years old, died way too young in 1978 in Mayfair, London, in England.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um he was a super complicated guy.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um let's talk about his drumming first.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_05: Very unique drummer.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_05: This is a thing that I wanted to tell you all is that the greatest drummers are very difficult to replicate, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like drummers like myself will put headphones on and play a song and try and play to you know some some drummer.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_05: Keith Moon is the hardest drummer, in my opinion, to replicate.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_05: He had a super unique style.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_05: Even the way when you watch him, it looks like they uh his arms are kind of flying, they called it skiing.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_05: He's his arms ski across the drums.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_05: It doesn't look like he's even hitting the drums, but he's he's actually a very powerful drummer.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_05: He's hitting the drums really, really hard.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_05: But the other thing about him was that he put, and I might use some terms that we might have to describe, but he put like cymbal crashes and tom-tom hits and and other things and drum fills, you know, like a roll or something.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_05: He would put them at very odd places in the song.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of times a straight 4-4 drum, you know, piece is like you're hitting the snare on two, the snare on four, and you're hitting a crash on the next one.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: He did things very, very differently and just crazy stuff that nobody really understood or has ever really been able to do.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_06: It's interesting you're talking about the visual aspect of watching somebody play.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_06: Do you find that when you when you watch a video of somebody playing, does that fill in the blanks for you when as opposed to when you've just heard it?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_06: If you never saw the Who perform, would you have any idea that he skied across the drums?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_06: Or wouldn't that just help help you when you see them?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: Does it make it harder to Oh, I I don't know whether it it actually with in Keith Moon, in Keith Moon's instance, I mean, it it it doesn't really make sense when you watch him.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: It's very, very it's a very strange deal.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_05: But I love watching drummers.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_05: I've seen, as Kelly knows, and as Kelly has, we've seen a ton of live music.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I always watch the drummer.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: I take photos of the drummer, I watch, I video, I love to watch how a drummer actually plays.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_05: So anyway, um, yeah, he was just very unique in in in very many regards.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so go ahead and play this.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_05: This is a very popular clip, but it's demonstrates what what he's all about.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_04: That little hi-hat ride at the end.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: With the bass, yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_04: So um that's that's a that's a great selection.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, that song always reminds me of my dad because I remember um very rarely uh driving in the car with him.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Not that we rarely did that, but he was singing along to it.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh I I very rarely ever saw him sing along to a song, but he sang along to that song, so that was kind of cool.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_06: I love the Who, it's one of my favorite bands.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_06: And I went to their farewell concert in 1988 at the Astrodome.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_06: Of course, you know, they've been playing pretty steadily for the past 40 years, but that was their farewell show in 1988, and it was it was pretty awesome.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_06: Wow, yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well, Keith Moon wasn't there.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: No, yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: So so that clip, that clip, I mean, I've never I've never critically listened to the drums on that part, but tell us what was going on, because I heard a lot, but I want to hear what you think, Matt.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, there's several parts of that song where there's that synthesizer is playing, and then at the beginning and then in the middle, and then you know, they lead to this sort of crescendo, maybe is is the is the word at the end of that sort of synthesizer part.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_05: And he just he just smashes them.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_05: He just he's hitting the drums so hard.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_05: He's he's it's basically a s a drum solo, which is interesting because he hated drum solos.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_05: Keith Moon did not play drum solos, he hated them.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_05: You'd you have a very hard time finding them, he wouldn't, he wouldn't play them.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um, which is funny because he basically solos almost the entire song in a lot of the songs that he plays because he doesn't sit back and play, like I was saying, he's just all over the place all the time, hitting a crash cymbal, doing a fill, doing this at any given time in songs.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_05: It's so I thought it was really ironic that he wouldn't, he he didn't like to do drum solos.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_05: But I just think that that's just a classic and perfect drum part.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: And when you listen to it closely, um, and and you really are listening for the drums, you're just like, wow, I didn't realize what all was going on.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you always groove to it, but when you actually say, Wow, there's all these little fills, and there's that little cymbal bit at the end, and the way it the synthesizer is playing and the da-da-da, that kind of staccato snare comes in, you know, it feels like it feels like almost like gunfire, you know, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's getting faster and faster.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm getting chills, man.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's awesome.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was great.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_05: And it's not a complic, not a complicated part.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, he's just it's it's single stroke rolls, really.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_05: There's no there's no double stroke rolls or anything.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: He's just hitting them as hard as he can.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's just perfect.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_06: Now, he obviously, like you said, he passed away 50 years ago.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um, the Who has gone on to play years without him?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um, you say those parts are fairly easy where they can the the whoever is drumming for the Who now is doing the exact same part.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_06: Are they not doing it as well?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, can you tell it's not Keith Moon?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_06: What is what does that feel like to listen to them now?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: Well, so the two the two main drummers that took his place, if you will.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: One was Kenny Jones from The Faces, like a very, very popular drummer in the in England in the same time period.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_05: And then Simon Phillips, another tremendous drummer.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_05: And they have really, in my opinion, not tried to replicate, but have kind of put sort of put their own kind of uh flavor to the songs.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_05: I think for one one reason, again, because it's very difficult to do what Keith Moon was doing, and I think sort of almost out of respect for Keith Moon, they just do their own thing.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_05: That's cool.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: You know, the strong structures are all the same and whatnot, but I don't they don't really try to do that, and none of them can.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_05: Like retired is part.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_05: That's cool.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we will never have another, you know.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: When Alex, when when uh when I boot you off the show, we'll never have anybody do the hello part at the beginning like you do, as out of respect.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: You retire it, yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it'll be you'll you'll get your number and you'll get your pension plan or your sticker, and then I'll get a younger, cuter girl.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: So so I want to also just mention real quick, I mentioned uh that song and and my dad.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: I also remember the first time I ever became aware of Keith Moon, and that was uh a friend of mine was playing, I think it was uh either a Roger Daltrey or a Pete Townsend solo record called Under a Raging Moon.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't understand the I don't know who who's whose that was.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'll look that up real quick, but I didn't understand that that the it was a double double meaning, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um it was under it was a solo record, but it was like a tribute to Keith Moon.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: Do you you familiar with what I'm talking about?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not let me let me let me look it up real quick.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_06: Um what year did you say he died?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_06: Seventy four eight.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, seventy eight.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_04: Under a raging Moon was a um Roger Daltrey uh solo album that came out in like the the mid-80s.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: So you remember that song After the Fire, after the fire, the fire still burns, the heart grows older but never ever learns.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: The memory smolder.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was on under a raging moon.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: I like Roger Daltrey.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: I like the Who as well.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I also heard that, you know, um Keith Moon, you said he was a complicated person.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: He was a pretty hard-living guy, right?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: He kind of lived that rock and roll lifestyle, from what I understand.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: Very much so.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_05: He was, he was, he, I think he was by all accounts just kind of crazy.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I have a couple of quotes here.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_05: It's like um his secondary school teacher, art teacher said, retarded artistically, idiotic in other respects.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: Which is great.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: I think I think I saw a review of um Dirt Knap City that said that as well.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's a Pilates episode.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's amazing, it's amazing how many parallels there are.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: But uh you got another quote for us, Matt?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, his music, his another music teacher said has great ability, but must guard against tendency to show off.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_05: And that was that was the thing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_05: He was a he was a showman.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_05: He just he demanded attention.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I know we got to move on, but like he was also known for um tearing up his drum kit after like uh after every show.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_05: He would throw his drums everywhere, kick his drum kit over and tear shit up, tear stuff up.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, but he also was really known, well known for blowing up toilets in hotel rooms with cherry bombs and throwing TV sets out of windows into into hotel swimming pools.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_05: They got kicked out of so many hotels.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_05: Hotel chains would not let the Who come to their hotels anymore.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_05: He was he was just a really wild, wild character.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_06: Um I wonder if he did all that before they had money, too.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um like can you destroy your drum kit every night if you don't have money?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_05: So actually, he his drum kits survived from night to night.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_05: They would have to put new heads and things on them, but the drums themselves survived.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_05: Uh the toilets, not so much.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_05: But and I often wondered about that.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_05: But I think he had uh I don't know.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I mean they were making boatloads of money, right, when their tour and then when the WHO was huge.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_05: So somehow they make it made it work, but I've always wondered how the hell they paid for all that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_04: But but in the early days it was like, oh uh no, sorry, Keith, you're not getting a new drum kit because you blew up the toilet.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't blow up the toilet, you can have a new a new kick drum.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: But if you do, it's gonna be duct tape, Mr.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_05: So so that's Keith Moon.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_05: Let's let's move on.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so let's move on to John Bonham, drummer for Led Zeppelin.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah largely considered the greatest drummer of all time.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, very different kind of drummer.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um he was uh he was a he was a power drummer.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, if you've listened, you listen to Led Zeppelin, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_05: The drums are way up front in their mix.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but he was he was um just sort of the the king of power drumming.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_06: I love Led Zeppelin and I love the way that they're mixed.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_06: I love that's one of my favorite things about Led Zeppelin music is is how that drum is is right up front.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_06: I just think it's so cool.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_06: Kelly's not as big of a Zeppelin fan as I am, but I I really love Led Zeppelin.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's it's funny too because three of the four drummers that I chose are drummers in three-piece bands.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: So that's one, you know, if you think about it, who's a three-piece band?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_05: John oh Roger Daltrey didn't play an instrument, nor did uh Robert Plant.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_05: So the drums, the drum and the drums and the bass have to fill space that is typically filled by another guitar or a keyboard or something, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_05: So the drummer has got to be mixed up front, and for for Zeppelin, that certainly is the case.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_06: I've heard Pete Townsend say that Roger Daltrey didn't do anything in the band.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_06: He said, Well, he sang, but he wasn't musical, right?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_06: He was just like so so dismissive of him.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_06: He just says he doesn't really do anything, he just stands there and sings, but he's not musical.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_06: He was very handsome, though.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: He's much, much better looking than than uh Pete Townsend.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's just funny because you think of him as being the front man, but if you listen to um Pete Townsend, he's easily useless.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_05: So um, so more about Bonham.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, he um he was actually criticized early in his career for being a plotting sort of uh loud and and uh loud drummer that didn't swing, like in in quotes.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: They were totally wrong about that.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um Clapton actually said that about him and compared him to Ginger Baker, who he said, Ginger Baker is a true musician, he's a composer, a musician, and and and so forth.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_05: And all of that ended up being incredibly uh wrong over time because John Bonham bias.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because John Bonham does swing, but he can also um you know play just the a solid back beat, you know.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_05: But he always played exactly what he needed to play.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, if you think about it, like other than Moby Dick, right, which is their song where Bonham plays like a 10-minute drum solo or whatever.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_05: And he did play drum solos, a huge part of their live shows.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: But he really played pretty, he kind of kept it together, you know.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_05: He kept it sort of in it between the lines.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_05: He played exactly what needed to be played.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_05: He just played it incredibly well and sort of incredibly loudly.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um, he was known as being um very uh a perfectionist about how his drums sounded.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_05: He would was very prepared, his drums were always tuned perfectly.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um and um so he was like super easy to work with in the studio because he always he was always ready.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_05: Technically, there's just really is no match for him.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_05: And so maybe we cut to the clip here, which is the the clip that I brought, is actually the first song on their first record.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_05: It's like what year what year did he die?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: He died, okay.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I didn't tell you this.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_05: He died, he was born in 48 uh in England, and he died in 1980.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_05: Again, 32 years old, say same as um as Keith Moon.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_04: And and you know, I just made the para the the connection here, at least for um The Who, Rush, and uh Zeppelin, all of their drummers died first.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and and and the remaining band members are actually still alive, I think, for the most part, right?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_05: I mean the No John I think John and Twistle died.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um the bass player for the Who, I think he died.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_05: But Okay.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, um Yeah, he did.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but the drummers, the drummers all died way before anybody else.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Peart died in 2010, so yeah, just a quick intro.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, this is like this is like uh the first song on their first record.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_05: It's like here I am.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_05: And nobody had heard anything like this.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I want I wanted to specifically discipline one.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_05: I wanted to point out that listen to the bass drum if you can.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because he did st and I mentioned this earlier in talking about Ginger Baker, he did stuff with one bass drum that that a lot of people cannot do with two.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_05: And he's just it it's just unbelievable what he can do with his foot, with one with his right foot.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_05: So go ahead and cue that up.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: And here's some little tricky things coming on there like you know, that's code combo.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, um it kind of gives you there's subtle if you don't know what to listen to.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_05: But so again, you kind of have to kind of sit down and listen to it and kind of understand what can be done with one bass pedal versus two, and you know, Neil Purr, one of the best examples of what a guy can do.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_05: He basically can do a drum roll with with with the bass with his bass drums, right?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_05: That's crazy.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_05: As fast as anybody, yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: You grew up in South Texas, Victoria, right, for the most part?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_05: Or no, I mean I grew up in Houston, the suburbs of Houston, Cyprus.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you remember uh do you remember Dana Steele on 101 KLOL to the DJ?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_04: Vaguely, but yeah, I didn't know.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: So she she had a show, she had a show on uh it was on like I don't know, Thursday nights at 11 p.m.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: and it was called for headphones only.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember that.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I can remember listening to a few songs, and the the encouragement was to listen to it in headphones and really like get a deeper meaning of it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: And what you just said about listening to the drums on that, it was kind of I remember actually the very first time I ever heard changes by yes.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know that intro of of that song?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I listened to it in headphones, and I did not think any I hated owner of a lonely heart, thought it was a horrible song, overplayed at the time, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it was just like can't stand that or roundabout, but but um when I listened to changes in my headphones, wow, and now listening to I don't I don't even like good times, bad times, but hearing that drum in the headphones just now, okay.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna give it another listen.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_06: Now you should do that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um music's always better with headphones.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um I guess so I don't know, maybe to to try to move on here.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_05: He was also very um uh self-destructive.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, he died it is said that he drank 16 shots of vodka at breakfast the day that he died.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: Ended up drinking like 40 shots of vodka over the day, and he went to bed and you know, didn't wake up.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh which is kind of the same thing that happened with Keith Moon, s slightly different circumstances, but they were both very self-destructive and um but you know we had him you know for some period of time and he left this incredible mark on music and uh now his son is quite an accomplished drummer, right?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Jason Bonner.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_06: And st and and um is is he how do you how what do you think of his drumming?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_05: I mean uh he has you know tried to replicate again his father's drumming and he does a great job doing that.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um I don't listen to a lot of his stuff outside of that.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_05: I couldn't I really couldn't tell you.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: So also um for those of you who haven't heard it, if you're interested in the origin of the name Led Zeppelin, you could listen to our Zeppelin episode about Count Von Zeppelin.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh do you remember that story, Alex?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_04: What how Led Zeppelin got their name?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, they said this will go over like a Led Zeppelin.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think it was um I think it was uh maybe Jimmy Page had talked about forming a band with uh Entwistle or who's the who's the who's bassist?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was one I think it was Enwistle that said it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, I think it was um who's the guy that sings Layla?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh um Eric Clapton.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was Eric Clapton said that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: Said that that'll go over like a Led Zeppelin.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh no, no, no.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was like a lead balloon, and they changed it to Led Zeppelin.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: So there you go.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh who you got next?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_04: Neil Peart.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, now this is my favorite.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: This is the one I want to be.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_06: I just that's that's a perfect example of the accessibility that you were talking about, though.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_06: That's not something that your garage band's gonna cover, you know?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_06: Um not at all.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_06: But that's a really good point.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_05: So one thing about Neil Purt was that he was super, super precise.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_05: He wrote all of his drum parts out, he played them exactly the same on the record as he played in every live show.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_05: Keith Moon, total opposite.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_05: But but what what that has done is it allowed a lot of drummers to, you know, try and figure it out.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_05: You can find his music.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_05: It's you know, there's drum music out there, it's sort of differently written than like guitar music and so forth, but but it's out there, and drummers, you know, have tried to duplicate it.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_05: And his music, his drumming actually is a little bit more, it is more accessible and able to be duplicated or replicated by drummer.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's documented?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's documented, and because his stuff is again, he's it's it's it's much, it's planned out, it's sort of precise.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_05: So the drummer has to be technically incredible to be able to do it, but there are a lot of drummers out there that can do it.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, Tom Sawyer, for instance, right?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_05: Probably his most famous drum song, right?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_05: Well, maybe their most famous song for that matter.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I can even I can play that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_05: Whereas half of the stuff that he plays on, like that stuff that we just played right there, I can't really do that.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_05: I can't, I can't play that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_05: I could practice it for a long time and probably still not get it down.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's just too technically demanding for most drummers.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_06: But um anyway, and if even if you could, you couldn't find a bass player that could do that or a guitar.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's like you know, so what?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_06: What are you what are you gonna do that with that?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's all weird time sim signatures as well, right?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that too.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_05: I mean that too.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_05: But that can all be written out too, right?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, drum music, just the same as any, you just write down the time signature, but that doesn't mean that somebody can actually pull it off.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_05: But it's all counterintuitive, yeah.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, so that's cool.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: I saw a um I saw a little YouTube clip about so Rush is touring currently.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: Alex and I are actually going to see Rush with uh AW, Al from Austin, um, in September in LA.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Where where are we going?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh San Antonio thing.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: Or or Fort Fort Worth, one of the two.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, um, I saw a little clip about their new drummer.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_04: So you know their new drummer is a woman, and she is going to be um on tour with them, and Getty Lee was talking about he gave her maybe it was something that had been written by Neil, like the drum part, or played it for her, and it was a very difficult time signature change and a bunch of stuff, and she played it the first time, and he was like, She's she's our she's our drummer.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like she got it.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_05: So uh this is news to me.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_05: I did not I I think I had heard that they were touring, and I remember thinking, Who the heck's their drummer?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_05: So I'll have to look into this, but I don't I have a feeling I know who that drummer is, but I and I forget her name, but she has kind of a a middle uh uh Eastern European name, I think.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um I think I know who you're talking about.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_05: But um so um but okay, so he was a super interesting guy, as you know, right?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_05: He wrote the lyrics for for all the rush songs, his his themes were all over the place.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_05: Sci-fi fantasy, he was a huge uh um fan of brand, um, you know, on and on.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_05: And um, so he was he wrote a number of books.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then when he got ill, he became ill, he took like a 55,000 mile motorcycle trip across Canada and the United States, and he documented that in a book.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: And um well that was actually that was actually before he got ill.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_04: That was when his his wife, his wife, and his daughter died within a year of each other.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_04: And that that trip that trip was his um sort of therapy for getting away from all that.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's right.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna I'm gonna just jump in and say two things.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: I have not read Neil Peart's uh biography or autobiography, but if you haven't read the one by Getty Lee, which Alex, I think you gave me for Christmas two years ago or three, it's called My F in Life.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's amazing.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: It and it talks a lot about that time when basically they packed up from their last show on a tour and they didn't see Neil for two or three years or something like that.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: Basically, he disappeared and they he would phone in every so often and say, Hey, I, you know, I'm safe.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in I'm in uh West Texas, you know, in Big Bend or whatever, and I'm on my way to here.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: But he would yeah, but he wasn't, you know, this is before really cell phones and GPS, and you couldn't, you know, where you could share your location with everybody.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: So they were never quite sure where he was, if he was okay, but but um yeah, he did that motorcycle trip across the country.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: And the beautiful thing and Canada, the beautiful thing I think for him was he wasn't famous enough looking.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know, he's famous as a drummer, but most people didn't know what he looked like, and so he was pretty anonymous during that whole thing, is what I said.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then the uh new drummer is named Annika Niles or Nils, N-I-L-L-E-S.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: She is German, and she actually was discovered by um being drumming on YouTube.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_05: So there you go.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_05: That's that's not who I was thinking of, but um, I'll check it out for sure.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um because anybody yeah, anybody that is asked to replace Neil Pearl has got to be freaking awesome.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I and I think you there's a lot of interviews about it with both Alex Lifeson and and uh Getty Lee, and both of them say she wasn't asked to replace him.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: She was asked to to kind of fill in for him, but you know, he's irreplaceable.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that sounds cliche, but but but he she they didn't expect her to play exactly what he did, but they did expect her to be able to play the parts that they needed.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I've watched a lot of videos.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_06: You can imagine though, if she's not if she's not great, she's gonna hear on it about it on social media, and people are gonna be like, why did you even go on tour with this person who can't yeah, it's people are gonna be rough on her.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: I I I think she is I think she is great, yeah, yeah.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: We'll find out.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: We'll find out in September.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: We will in uh San Antonio or or Fort Worth, wherever it is.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_05: All right, so we're ready to move on to the last drummer and then get to the six questions, yeah, the burning questions.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_05: So the last one is somebody you will you will not have heard of.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh what was he, number, what did I say, number 55 on Rolling Stones list.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_05: But his name is Jim Gordon.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um born in uh LA in uh 1945, died in California, Vacaville, California, in um a mental um uh a prison, died in prison.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_05: We'll get to that at 78 years old.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, he was argued arguably the most recorded drummer of all time, um, but was also technically incredible.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_05: And this let me let me tell you who he played with.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_05: This is just this is a partial list, okay?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_05: Beach Boys, Monkeys, The Muppets, George Harrison, Frank Zappa, Eric Clapton, Tom Petty, Jackson Brown, Harry Nielsen, Joe Cocker, CSN, Buffalo Springfield, The Birds, Alice Cooper, Tom Wakes, Randy Newman, Mama Cass Elliott, Holland Oates, Steely Dan, Leon Russell, Judy Collins, Cher, Paul Revere, and the Raiders, Dave Mason, Traffic, Helen Reddy.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_05: But he also played with B.B.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_05: King, John Lee Hooker, Buddy Guy.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_05: He played with Wayland Jennings, Merle Haggard, Glenn Campbell, Charlie Daniels, John Denver, Joan Baez, Gordon Lightfoot, Carol King, Donovan, Everly Brothers, Neil Diamond, Yoko Ono, Nancy Sinatra, and that's like partialists.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_05: Unbelievable.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_06: You had me at the Muppets.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_06: I know.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_06: Um that's so cool.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_06: He was animal.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_06: So would you call that would you call him a studio drummer?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_06: Is that the term you would use for someone like that?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_05: He he o he played one name that I didn't mention here.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_05: I mentioned some of the guys, but he played, he was in Derek and the Dominoes.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um he was their drummer.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_05: Now they only put out one record.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: Record, but they toured.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_05: But that's like the only band he really played in, right?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_05: Uh he was he was part of what was called the Wrecking Crew, which was a group.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if either of you have heard of that, but that was a group of studio musicians in LA for a period of time that included Glenn Campbell was actually part of that.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um couple of other drummers, um, Andy Newmark, another incredible drummer, uh, several guitarists who you would have heard of, etc., etc.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_05: But it was a group of session musicians.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_05: But he was just the most sought-after drummer.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_05: And the reason is he could do everything and he could do it well.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_05: He's known for being able to uh quickly listen and be able to play a drum part for any style, any genre, any tempo, any anything.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_05: He would would just immediately be able to play exactly what needed to be played.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_05: There's a term I haven't used yet today.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's called for drummers, it's called in the pocket.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_05: The drummer, you know, and this is kind of unlike how Neil Peart plays, but a drummer that is supposed to sort of play around the vocals, around the guitar.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: You don't want to hear the drummer, you want to hear the guitar and the vocals.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_05: The bass and the and the drummer need to be the rhythm section, of course, but they they want to be playing, they want to they want to fit in the pocket of the rest of the musicians.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's a term that's used.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_05: And he was he was known as the quintessential in the pocket guy, could just do anything.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_05: But um, but technically incredible as well.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_05: And when he was allowed to sort of swing or to do a little bit, you know, to get out there a little bit, he was able to do it.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so um it was interesting because it was difficult for me to find a clip where you could really hear what he was doing because he's mostly he's just in the pocket, he's in the pocket, he's just playing, not doing anything crazy.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but in this song, you can sort of hear him.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_05: There's a couple others I could have played, like Layla, uh the song Layla, at the end of Layla, or at the end of uh great one of my favorite songs, Let It Rain, by Eric Clapton.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_05: He's really allowed to sort of get out there, and there's so much going on at the end of Let It Rain, you have to kind of listen hard, but he's he's freaking going for it at the end of that song.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_05: But this song just sort of um shows how clean and perfect he can play.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_05: So go ahead and you want to cue that up.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_05: You know, he he was just sort of considered the the perfect drummer.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um I mean, you know, all those people would not have selected him to play on their records if he, you know, wasn't as versatile as you could you could be.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_04: So But he was he was by Rolling Stone, like you said number 55 or 59 or something like that.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's just ridiculous.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: But um but uh I I recognize these things are subjective, you know.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_06: But so you said he took a tragic turn somehow.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: He did, yeah.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_05: So he was basic, I think, considered to be an undiagnosed schizophrenic, maybe even bipolar disorder.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: He started being very, very um he used a lot of drugs and drank, started being very unreliable, he's losing gigs.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_05: But ultimately, voices in his head told him to to kill his mother, and he killed his mother with a hammer um and went to prison, and that's where he he died just uh, I think 2023 did I say, just a few years ago, he died.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um and he was up for parole multiple times, but he just was he was just uh he was not well.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um so it's super tragic.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um but uh you know incredible.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_05: What's his name again?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_04: John Jim Gordon.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: Jim Gordon, okay.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_05: Jim Gordon.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so that's I mean that's kind of what I have.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_05: So um those are the four drummers.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_06: Well that was really that was really interesting.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_06: I love that, and I love that you threw one in there that we hadn't heard of, but that was a great clip that you played too, because you could just see and and and your um your explanation of of being in the pocket, that song really exemplifies that.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_06: It was really a that's really a tight song.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_06: Very, very tight.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's a great song.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_06: Eight minutes long.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_06: So, like I said, um there's some questions that I have about drumming because I'm fascinated with drummy.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_06: Um I watch drummingo all the time, the uh um the YouTube channel, drummingo.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I'm fascinated with drummers, but I don't really know any drummers, um, and had never really uh gotten uh my sense is that that if you corner a drummer, they could talk about drumming all day long.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um right?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_06: Like they it's you're you like to talk about drumming, right?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_05: I I do.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_05: I love I love to talk.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_05: I study drummers.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I have so much useless information in my brain, you know.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_06: Um But the thing is you guys all talk to each other, so nobody asks you the stupid questions.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna ask you some some questions that maybe a non-drummer would ask that that no real it's like somebody asking an actor, how do you all memorize all your lines?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's like that's not part of the craft, but here we go.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_06: All right.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_06: Question number one Are all stools the same?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_06: Or are there really good stools and really bad stools?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_06: Well, first of all that's a serious question because I think, well, if you're a millionaire drummer that can have any stool you want, I bet you have an awesome, but it's still just a stool, right?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like are are all stools interchangeable?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_06: Are there really good ones?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_06: Well, first are there ones with padding?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like tell me, tell me about I had a really good one this morning, just so you know.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_06: I knew.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_06: And there it is.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, well, so okay, stool samples.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna I'm gonna shut that down right now.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_05: They're actually called thrones, drum thrones, right?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they are.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um I never knew so.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't know if you go on music, you know, guitar center and look for them and whether they're called thrones, but that's it's kind of what we call them.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: No, and when Tate took drum lessons, uh they I I learned that it was called a throne.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's so pompous.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_05: It really is, yeah, right.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's like totally, yeah, yeah, it's us.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_05: But um, of course, they differ.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like I have two.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and one of them actually has uh has a uh you know, um has an art has our not armrest, but a back, right?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_05: Most of them are just a school, right?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_05: Which is why you call them school.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_06: I'm guessing the teenagers don't use the ones with the back.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_06: No, right.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_05: For your sciatica.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, you see guys sitting on um, you know, on a folding chair, right?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_05: Uh um, but it does help for it to be padded, it helps for it to swivel, right?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: It swivels.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's the thing that's big, right?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_05: You gotta be able to swivel because you're you know, especially if you're playing a Neil Peart kit, you gotta be able to get from your tiny little timbales over here all the way, you know, 180 over to your uh to your um 20-inch tom tom floor on the floor, you know.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_06: So all right.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_06: So um my second question is, you know, I I used to really love to watch rock drummers and everything, but then sometimes you go to a show and maybe it wasn't a rock show, or maybe it was a uh lighter rock show, and I'd always feel bad when the drummer would bust out the brushes.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_06: Um I always feel like I didn't I didn't become a drummer to play the with the brushes.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, dude.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_06: But the brushes are like you know, a back a background of a light rock song.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_06: Or jazz.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, how do drumming it?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: I always think of jazz.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_06: Or sure, or jazz, right?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_06: Um, how did drummers feel about brushes?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I can tell you how I feel about them.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_06: I hate them.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_05: I hate playing with brushes.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_05: And like uh there was a musician in Victoria that I lived who's just like played covers and whatever.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_05: He wanted me to play with him, and he was he wanted me to play a snare drum with brushes, and I was like, I think I did it once, and I'm like, I can't do this.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm a loud drummer, I'm not and here's the other thing is that I think you have to be a really good drummer to be able to use brushes, and I could never figure it out.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just pounding them as hard as I can to try and get the same sound I get out of sticks, but it is a very important uh tool for jazz drummers and so forth.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_05: So um to be a great drummer, you need to be able to use sticks and brushes.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um, when I watched Drummeo, um, I think it's cool that they have all different types of drummers on there.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_06: And one of the guys that I like that's on there sometimes is this guy, Jonathan Sugarfoot Moffitt.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_06: He was Michael Jackson's drummer.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_06: And he plays, um, he'll show you like a Michael Jackson song, and you'll and and like Kelly was saying earlier, it might be a song that you've overlooked before and be like, wow, that has a really complex drum part.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_06: I'd never realized.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like Billy Jean or something like that.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_06: Um, what's a popular song where the drumming is amazing and we might not catch it?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_06: Like, we might not have heard that.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, a song that comes to mind is um Rosanna by um Toto Toto?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and one of the greatest drummers of all time is Joe Jeff Porcaro, who you guys mentioned on one of your podcasts a long time ago.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_05: Steele Steely Dan was Steely Dan among other play among other uh uh bands, but he was a session guy.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_05: But he was I think you mentioned him in uh in a list of people who uh earn the most royalties because he plays on so many popular songs.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_05: But the but the s the drumming to Did he die?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_05: He did die, he died tragically, not self-destructive, but yeah, he died, he died too young too.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um but the drums on Rosanna are largely considered one of the greatest drum parts ever.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's called a shuffle, is what it's called, but you have to really listen hard to catch what he's doing.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's an incredibly difficult drum part, but it doesn't exactly what I was looking for.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_06: I'll check that out because I hate that song.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but I'll definitely check that out later.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: I need to add to that real quick.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I for years I worked for a uh event company, live staging company, and we did, you know, uh live events.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: And our sound guy would set up these very large sound systems with you know eight, ten cabinets in the room, and you know, it was corporate stuff, so they weren't super loud.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_04: But he would always play Rosanna for soundcheck.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh his name was David Hiebner, and David would always play Rosanna, and he said it was, and he was a musician actually, and he said it was because there's quiet parts, there's loud parts, you know, like quite a year since you went away.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and it's and he said that would help him kind of see if you could hear a whisper, but also not overdrive the other parts, and it had a lot of range.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: He said it was the perfect sound guys test song.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: So there you go.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_06: That's great to know.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_06: Interesting.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_06: What's a good what's a good song that's ruined by bad drumming?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_06: Or bad drum part?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, we will rock you by Queen.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_05: Whoa.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um man, that's a tough one, Alex.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_06: Um I'm gonna have to Like you were mentioning Jim Jer Baker, how you just couldn't listen to him because like are those songs good, but you just it ruins it, like the drumming ruins it for you.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_05: For me, it does, but um I'm trying to think about I I don't know.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_05: I I wish I could come up with an answer for you, but I don't maybe want to come to me before we end this podcast, but I can't think of one.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_06: Or you can email us at not at dirt and obsidia.com.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us your tell us your least favorite drum part in a song, and you might get a sticker.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_05: There you go.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_06: What is it and my fifth question is funny because it has to do with the pocket.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_06: What does it feel like to be in the pocket?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_06: It must feel like euphoric, like to just be there and just be keeping time.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_06: Is that just a a great feeling?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_06: Is that what you live for as a drummer?
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um yes.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, but there's more to it than that.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: So or is it the hookers and cocaine?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_05: So um I have told many people that the some of the finest moments of my life really like just the best moments are playing live music in front of a of a in front of an audience.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_05: And um, but and and um Kelly knows the bass player in the band that I played with for many years in Victoria, his name is Dan.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_05: And um, but when he and I would click and have, you know, with the rhythm section playing to one of the songs that we played, um that there's the feeling is really uh unlike any other, no doubt.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I can feel it, I mean I can sense it right now what it feels like.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um so it's an it's an incredible, it's an incredible feeling just to make music really, but specifically for a drummer, it you know, it's a bit unique.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_05: But um no, it's it's uh it's an incredible feeling that's hard for anybody to really understand unless they were to do it.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's cool.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_06: And my sixth question is what about Ringo?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_06: It seems to be such a divisive um uh uh person to talk to drummers about.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_06: Because I think for a long time he didn't get his due, and then there was like a renaissance of people talking about him.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_06: What's your feeling on Ringo?
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_05: Ringo's he's an awesome drummer, one of the one of the greatest ever, and I understand what why people feel that way.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_05: There's a I I'm not sure if I've verified this, but um apparently or supposedly the somebody asked either John or or Paul, you know, whether Ringo was the greatest drummer in the world, and he and they said he's not even the greatest drummer in the band.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, because Paul McCartney and John Lennon both played drums and um were incredible, they played bass, guitar, piano, and drums.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_05: They were all they were incredible musicians.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_05: But um the thing of and I've said this a couple of times in the podcast, is that ring is that the great drummers cannot be replicated.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_05: And Ringo is probably the prime example of that.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_05: You cannot, you can't get his sound, and you can't, he was very um, his style was very, very unique, and it's just it it there's something about it that is just different than every other drummer ever.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_05: And and then his parts were perfect for every song.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_05: He just he just knew what to do.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_05: Technically, he's not the greatest drummer.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_05: You don't hear him do a double stroke roll ever.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_05: He played one solo in his entire career on a Beatles record, and that's sit-in for Rush if he wanted to.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_05: Not um But uh I was just recently, I've listened to so many podcasts prepping for this and just getting ready.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_05: But I listened to an hour-long podcast about what makes Ringo Ringo, and they played just song after song after song about uh that demonstrated the kind of things that I just said.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_05: He was just a very unique player, and nobody ever nobody liked him at all.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like uh, I think of come together, like I don't even like that song that much.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's not one of my favorite Beatles songs, but I love the drum part in it.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: Those little rolls.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, listen to the end, the song The End, which is I think the last song.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_05: The last record we played.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and there's uh that he plays a drum solo at the end.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's just a it's super simple if you break it down and put it on paper, but it's a great, great, great solo.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_04: So right before that solo on the end, um, or maybe it's right after, um, there is a guitar part, and a lot of people don't know this, which I think is fascinating.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_04: And that guitar part is uh George, Paul, and John each playing part of it, like trading, basically trading licks on it.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh if you actually have the rock band game with that song on it, you can play there there is a rock band, and it has all three, it's like a video of all three of them playing in the background, an animated video.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, that just gives me the chills because I think I can tell who's who based on their styles.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_04: But and then, yeah, you're right.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: The drums in that are the that little solo that he does is so cool.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's just yeah, I love I love the end.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, yep.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_06: Well, thank you, Matt.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_06: That was thanks for uh humoring my questions there.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_04: Hey Matt, I gotta I gotta say something about Alex that you don't know.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_04: A little secret that most people don't know about Alex.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_04: Alex, uh, hope you're okay with me sharing this.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: We can always cut it out.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_04: Alex was in a band that played um for I think about four years in that band and played in front of like crowds of fifty five years.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: Five years, fifty to a hundred thousand people at a time.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not lying, but that's a true, that's a fact.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_06: Tell me more.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_06: Did you not know that?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_06: The University of Texas Longhorn Band.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_06: Got it.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_06: Awesome.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_06: Uh what instrument?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_06: Did not play drums, though.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_06: Did not play drums.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_06: Uh what instrument?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_06: But I like to twirl the baton, it'd be cool.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_06: I played uh mellophone.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um what the hell is that?
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I should know what that is.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_05: Or maybe I'm being played.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, mellophone is like a marching French horn.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_05: Got it.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_04: No, he really was.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh he's played much bigger gigs than you have, uh Matt.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you're a good drummer and all that.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Co, so can we uh we uh can we can we end with a couple of a couple of jokes?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_05: Please.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, number one.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_05: What do you call people that hang out with musicians?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_05: Drummers.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_05: And number two, what will you never hear a drummer say?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, let's play one of my songs.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Matt.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you for spending the time with us.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_04: I hope you had fun.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I learned a lot.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: I I will be uh referring to my morning duke as a throne from now on instead of a stool.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_04: And if you haven't already, uh please, please, please contact us, support us on Patreon, and we'll see you next time on Dirt Nap City, the podcast about interesting dead people, including dead drummers.