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Handling Jealousy at the Dance Studio · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_03: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_03: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: Jealousy is a normal human emotion, but it can turn toxic really quickly if left unchecked.
0:30
SPEAKER_03: Joining us today on Making the Impact are IDA judge and competition team director Katie Cruz and studio owner Ellen Marshall to discuss how they've handled jealousy within the competitive dance studio setting.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Courtney Our Keynes, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: Hey Courtney, how are you doing?
0:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: How are you?
0:52
SPEAKER_03: I'm great.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: We are, I am now almost a few weekends into my competition season.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: So feeling back in the swing of things and loving seeing everybody uh on stage this season.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's a great season.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: We're in the heat of it.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm really pumped that the competition season is finally here.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: And I hope to all of our listeners that you've had a chance to attend your first competition of the season, and I hope it went great, and uh there's probably more to come, I'm sure.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: More to come.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: Well, and if you are still sort of pre-season, I know it's a little early for some people, don't forget that we offer a service uh called online critiques from IDA judges in case you're looking for some preseason uh uh feedback before you hit the stage.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we do mid-season feedback too.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: So if for some reason you go to a competition and your judges just didn't give you the best critique that you were looking for, and you need some more substance in there and you want to know exactly why, you might may have not placed or scored as well as as well as you would have hoped.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Then you can send in your competition video from that last event and just say, Hey, what are your thoughts on this?
1:56
SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear even more feedback from the judges and get another fresh set of eyes to look at your dance.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: So definitely check out our service.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for the shout-out, Leslie.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: You've been doing lots of online critiques lately.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: Oh yes, I love them.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: It gives me an opportunity to feel like I'm behind the table, even though I am roaming Spirit of Dance Awards events uh as a director now.
2:15
SPEAKER_03: But I love I love to do the online critiques.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: I think they're a great service.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh we've got several judges that do them pretty regularly.
2:22
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, send them in if you're looking for some more feedback.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and uh regarding this week's episode, this is a topic all about jealousy.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Whether we're talking about jealousy between dancers or jealousy between teachers and uh parents and you name it, all things jealousy that revolve around the dance studio.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: So I'm really interested to hear what our guests have to say about this topic and their experiences on it because I'm sure that we've all encountered some jealousy here or there at a point in time in our studio life.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: But before we jump into our episode, like always, we want to share our sponsors with you for this week's episode.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: And this week's episode is sponsored by Liberate Artists.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Liberate Artists is a dance and performing arts organization that builds confidence and promotes social growth in young people.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: They create magical and momentous dance experiences and performances in brave, inclusive, non-competitive environments that remind everyone that you are enough exactly as you are in the skin and body you are in.
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3:59
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to receive a$500 scholarship to a future Liberate Artists event, reach out to contact at liberateartists.com and mention Making the Impact Podcast to receive this special exclusive offer.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: All right, listeners, we are jumping on into the discussion today, and we're talking about jealousy at the studio.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: What a hot topic.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes, dun dun dun.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: It's right, because I'm sure that we have all experienced it in one way or another, where whether it is dance mom to dance mom jealousy, ooh, maybe it's dance mom to dancer jealousy, ooh, or even dancer-to-dancer jealousy.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, there could also definitely be teacher-to-teacher jealousy that happens at the studio.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: That's a whole other dynamic.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: I know.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: And these all feel like they could actually be individual podcast episodes for themselves, now that I'm thinking about a series of jealousy discussions.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: But we know it happens and we know it exists in our dance world.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: And we have two guests who are joining us today to share their perspective from different parts of this beautiful dance uh studio world.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: So the first guests I'm excited to welcome back to our podcast.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh, they are returning guests, you may remember them from season three, episode 82 of recreational versus competitive dance, which was a wonderful discussion.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: They are an IDA judge, they've been teaching for 27 years, and they are a dance mom who also has dancers dancing at the studio that they teach at.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: So that is the perspective that they are bringing to this jealousy discussion.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited to welcome back Katie Cruz to the podcast.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Katie.
5:42
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
5:42
SPEAKER_04: So excited to be back.
5:44
SPEAKER_04: Life has been super busy since the last time I was on here.
5:48
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, like I'm just super excited to talk about this topic, especially having dancers that I do teach, like also in the classroom study.
5:55
SPEAKER_04: They're just not at the studio.
5:57
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, excited.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: Yay! Yeah, we uh when we were casting this one, we knew we wanted to have perspectives that were preferably from uh, you know, a teacher, uh someone that's active in the studio, but also there's the added bonus of the fact that you also are a dance mom.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: So I you know, you're coming from it two different sides, and I think that'll I'm sure you have some things to share and experiences that you've experienced on your time in the dance, and you have three dancers dancing.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: You've been, you know, that's you're in the studio 24-7.
6:30
SPEAKER_04: 24-7.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it used to have three, like my oldest graduated in COVID.
6:34
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
6:35
SPEAKER_04: So that was, you know, very interesting.
6:37
SPEAKER_04: And then my middle is actually graduating this year.
6:40
SPEAKER_04: So next year I'll be down to just one dancer for four years, and then I'll be done.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
6:45
SPEAKER_04: I get to just be a teacher.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's great.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, please feel free to share with the world out there to remind them a little bit more about you, where you're based, any early dance training you want to share, and what you're working on now.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: All right.
7:01
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I'm super excited to be back at the podcast.
7:04
SPEAKER_04: I've been dying to come back because it was so much fun the first time.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: And when I'm rhinestoning costumes, that's what I do is I sit and listen to the podcast and I agree and I talk out loud, and my husband thinks I'm nuts.
7:14
SPEAKER_04: But um, yeah, no, so just like a little bit about me.
7:17
SPEAKER_04: I started actually training at the age of five at DPU Dance, where I currently work.
7:23
SPEAKER_04: And I trained in all styles except hip hop and contemporary, because those weren't like really things back in like the 80s to like 1998.
7:32
SPEAKER_04: Didn't grow up a convention kid because those were just coming out as I was graduating.
7:38
SPEAKER_04: And let's be honest, comp world in the 80s and 90s is a completely different beast than what it is now.
7:43
SPEAKER_04: But that's where I grew up.
7:44
SPEAKER_04: That's where I trained.
7:46
SPEAKER_04: And then I started working at a studio in the St.
7:48
SPEAKER_04: Louis area.
7:50
SPEAKER_04: Then I got married, and my husband was military.
7:53
SPEAKER_04: So we traveled a lot.
7:54
SPEAKER_04: So I worked at some studios in South Carolina, upstate New York, out in Seattle.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: And when he got back, because we had four kids, we decided let's move back to St.
8:03
SPEAKER_04: Louis because that's where we're from.
8:05
SPEAKER_04: And I started working again at studios in the St.
8:08
SPEAKER_04: Louis area, pretty much strictly with competition.
8:11
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I've been at DPU Dance now for five years.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: I'm their competition director.
8:17
SPEAKER_04: I have four children, three of which are girls.
8:20
SPEAKER_04: They've all competed.
8:21
SPEAKER_04: My old assistance graduated.
8:23
SPEAKER_04: The middle is getting ready to graduate.
8:24
SPEAKER_04: So soon I'll be down to one kid, which will be very interesting.
8:29
SPEAKER_04: And let's see, I also work at Wiseman's dancewear as their choreographer, which actually means you are the one doing all the poses and the beautiful ads that you see for them.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: So I've been there about a year.
8:42
SPEAKER_04: It's really, really interesting.
8:44
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
8:44
SPEAKER_04: And then when I'm not like working at Wiseman's in the day and then rushing, like I have an hour to get to the studio at night Monday through Friday, I am working on costumes.
8:53
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, that is me, busy little bead.
8:56
SPEAKER_04: My side hustle is strong right now, but yeah.
9:00
SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: Live and breathe, dance.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Literally eat, sleep, and breathe.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Like that is it.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you're doing so much.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: And I'm really happy to have you on the roster.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: I hope we can get you out some this season out there.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: I know you're so busy though.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: It's hard.
9:16
SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like the offers keep coming in, and I do judge for another competition, but like my youngest daughter is on company for a convention.
9:25
SPEAKER_04: So it's like between the kids, my two kids and their extra comps and conventions.
9:31
SPEAKER_04: And then I'm only able to judge like two.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: I keep looking at the weekends and I'm like, oh, cool, it's open.
9:36
SPEAKER_04: And like, never mind, we're in competition.
9:38
SPEAKER_04: So I'm thinking next year that hopefully finally when I only have one kid doing this, I'll have more time.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure that's that will be what happens, and we can get you out all the time on IDA.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: But we're so grateful for your support.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being back on the podcast.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: Yes, super excited.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: All right, and our next special guest who's joining us is a brand new guest to the podcast and a new supporter of IDA.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: I um recently have well, actually, Leslie has had the opportunity to watch the dance, their dancers at competition.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: And this studio owner who is joining us has been in business for 26 years, and they have attended many IDA affiliated competitions recently and also have been a recipient of the Making the Impact Award.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: How cool is that?
10:26
SPEAKER_02: This might be our very first Making the Impact Award winner on the podcast.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited to welcome studio owner Ellen Marshall to the pod.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Ellen.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm so excited to be here with you guys.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm totally fangirling and so excited to be here.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Yay! Love to hear that.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and thank you for all your support.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: You're also a Platinum Premium member on the podcast as well.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: And it's really awesome that you uh were able to connect with us and congrats on winning the Making the Impact Award.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: How cool.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: It was very cool.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: I was very impressed.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: My daughter actually was the one that won it.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: She's a total comedian and had a great solo last year.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: And she was just very excited to be recognized for something that she loves to do so much.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that is awesome.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: We love we love being able to give this award out.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: And I know our judges really love it too.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: So we're we're happy to make it possible.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: And if you wouldn't mind telling a little bit more about tell the world a little bit more about you, where your studio is based, how you got into studio ownership, what your training's like, and what's it what's next for y'all?
11:29
SPEAKER_00: All right.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So hello, my name is Ellen Marshall, and I am in upstate New York, um, just south of Syracuse.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Born and raised in this little city called Fulton.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: I took dance from the time I was little until the time I was older, didn't really think that I wanted to own a dance studio, got an education degree, got a business degree, and then decided that I really wanted to be a dance teacher.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: So all that time I was teaching as while I was going to college and opened my own studio.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: Started really small.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I had about 30 kids.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Now we're up to over 300.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I finally bought my own building a few years ago.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: So that was a dream come true.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I've got a nice size competition team that we we spend the springs competing with and a lot of rat kids, and we just we have a good time.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: I've got three daughters, all of who are involved with the dance studio.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: My oldest is 26.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: She's a teacher at the studio.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: She's also a school teacher during the day.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: And then my two younger ones, 16 and 13, and they dance and teach and all that good stuff.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: And so it's really a family business.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: And my husband is the best dance dad ever.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: I love hearing that.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: And I know that we've really wanted a studio owner perspective on this side of uh the discussion as well, to just kind of hear how you handle jealousy at the studio if you tolerate it things ways that you've, you know, s squished it and made sure that it's, you know, not too involved, because I'm sure that every studio owner has to deal with that at some point during their years in business.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: Of course, yes.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: We're excited to have you and thank you for joining us.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: Let's do it, Leslie.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Let's get into this chat.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: Let's do it.
13:09
SPEAKER_03: Well, Courtney, I liked I like the term you used to squish jealousy.
13:13
SPEAKER_03: Because jealousy, that's a little green monster, a little green bug that gets into all of us as humans.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: You know, uh just you you can't avoid it, but I think there's ways, especially in a highly competitive atmosphere, that you can use it to your advantage and it can kind of fuel you.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, I guess we should probably deal with the negative aspects of it first.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: And so this is probably, I know the answer to this question, but Ellen, have you experienced jealousy at your dance studio?
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, of course.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: I think I don't think there's any way you can't.
13:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Especially when you're, like you said, when you're in a competitive environment and our kids, if even if they're not dance competition participants, they compete with each other who's in the front row, who gets to be the leader, who gets to, you know, try on the costume first.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: There's competition in in all of that.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: So no matter what happens, you're gonna find that.
14:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: Katie, what's your experience been like?
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
14:09
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think that's kind of just inevitable too, because for the most part, like our studio is, you know, I would say 98% female.
14:16
SPEAKER_04: So I feel like that's just kind of a little bit embedded into our DNA to be jealous.
14:22
SPEAKER_04: But I also feel like sometimes those jealousies stem from just insecurities.
14:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I totally agree with the insecurity piece.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Courtney, when you were dancing, I mean, you don't have siblings, and I feel like the sibling jealousy like also probably plays a lot into it at studios, especially if you've got siblings that dance.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: But you being an only child, you know, were you ever did did that did jealousy come into play for you in any sort of different ways?
14:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would I would definitely say so.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: I think just, you know, who got special parts uh in in choreography, or who always got called out in class, or who always would, you know, get bumped up to the older girls dance or things like that, where it's just little instances of showing favoritism to others in your classroom.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: Like and I think, like you said, I mean, I didn't have siblings, so I didn't really I couldn't be like, you know, jealous of my sibling.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: I I feel like the only way I could really even learn what jealousy was was being jealous of my classmates and being jealous of dancers in class with me or in my studio.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: And well, mom, why does this why did they get this?
15:33
SPEAKER_02: I wanted that.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, like that's the only real thing that I was introduced to.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: So uh thousand percent tons of jealousy, not just for me, I'm saying like in the studio setting that I grew up in.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: A lot of and and and you know, a lot of weird favoritism things that like n a lot of people just really didn't understand.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: And it's and I think that's a huge part of the studio culture.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like as a studio owner or as a teacher, are you playing favorites?
16:01
SPEAKER_02: Is that made aware?
16:03
SPEAKER_02: Is it like or are you trying to like include everyone and make sure everyone feels involved?
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's where the jealousy really stems from.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: If it's very apparent in your face that like this is actual, like you are showing true, pure favoritism right now, and it's so blatant and clear to everyone, parent and dancer.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: It happens a lot.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: Ellen, are you in your situation right now?
16:26
SPEAKER_03: So you have a competitive team and then you have your recreational students, and you were saying that there's even jealousy in the recreational division, which of course there is, you know, I we've all experienced it, like the the clamoring to be the line leader, and you know, yeah, it's it they all seem such like low-stakes situations, but like that's if you're not jealous of the kid who got Clara in the nutcracker because you're not at that level, you're gonna be jealous of Sally got to try on the costume first.
16:50
SPEAKER_03: But how does how does it usually manifest in your in your space?
16:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, are you seeing it happen more more now than it used to, maybe, or anything like that?
17:00
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know that it happens more.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: We've really tried to at my at our studio.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: I've really tried to pay attention to it to try to not let it come up.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: There's always going to be jealousy, but I really try to, like Courtney said, to squash it, to get rid of it before it even happens.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: In my in our recreation group, I don't see it as much anymore.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Those kids, I I'm I I try to really make sure everybody gets in the front line at some point in the dance recital dance that everybody gets to, like you said, be the leader of the line at some point.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: So I that's easy.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: It's hard when you're competing.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: You want to put your best foot forward.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And so obviously, sometimes there's kids that just aren't more able to lead, to be in the front, to to to do all that stuff.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's harder with those kids because you do want to you do want to do well, but you do want to make everybody feel like they're part of doing well.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's obviously there's some kids that do better that are better leaders.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: There's some kids that are better followers.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, everybody has their strengths.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So but I try to you you you gotta, and I think most dance teachers do.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: We we try to to make everybody feel like they're an important part of the team.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, and and everybody is, because you can't have not everybody can be front and center.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: One person is front and center.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: That's just logistics.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: Like you just it just you have to have the people in the back row to make the team a team, to make a formation.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, you're just it's chaos.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: So that's a good that's a good point.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like though, like with that example, it and like you said, Ellen, there are certain dancers who are the ones that feel a little bit more leader-like and retain the material stronger or are ta applying the corrections and like they've earned that position where they are placed, you know.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what a lot of people need to, you know, open up their eyes and realize sometimes is like, well, is your dance you might be jealous of this dance, but are you putting in the work?
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Are you putting in and again if if you are, then okay, I understand.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Then it is a little Well, and some and sometimes even if you are putting in the work, sometimes there's just some kids that do better with somebody in front of them.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: They really shine in the second row.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: But if you put them in the front row, front and center, they they get a little, you know, they they feel a little, you know, they don't have that confidence.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So if they're in the second row and they have somebody in front of them, they can really shine.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing wrong with being in the second row.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: No.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: I think that people, yeah, that's a great point because as a judge, I'm watching usually the back row.
19:49
SPEAKER_04: My dancers, I said, you want to know where the pressure, the pressure spot is, it's that back row.
19:53
SPEAKER_04: Right.
19:53
SPEAKER_04: It's not the person in the front because we're gonna put the leaders and the people that really know the choreography and have the strongest work ethic, is what I like to say.
20:00
SPEAKER_04: Not ability, the work ethic in front.
20:03
SPEAKER_04: So if you're in that back row, you have to know what you're doing even more than the people in the front.
20:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's totally true.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: And Katie, I I saw you nodding along a lot with Ellen.
20:14
SPEAKER_03: You know, are you experiencing kind of the same thing with, you know, placement and how how you go about placing your dancers?
20:20
SPEAKER_03: Because I think that's important for people to hear too, that, you know, a lot of times it's not favoritism.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: It's not because I like you the most.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: Maybe I like you, maybe I like everybody, but maybe you have the better work ethic and that's why you get placed where you get placed.
20:34
SPEAKER_04: Or they're just the most consistent at the time.
20:37
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
20:37
SPEAKER_04: You know, and like I don't because I mean I teach, I I I teach comp, obviously, but like I teach every single age level.
20:44
SPEAKER_04: Like I teach our minis that are fourth through eight, all the way up to our teen seniors.
20:49
SPEAKER_04: And it's really interesting to me because the minis kind of live in the fog.
20:53
SPEAKER_04: That's the place called their parents.
20:55
SPEAKER_04: Live in the fog as long as you can.
20:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:58
SPEAKER_04: Where they don't know what's going on.
21:00
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, they have no idea about placements and who's front and center.
21:04
SPEAKER_04: And they're just there to live their best life as minis.
21:06
SPEAKER_04: And then you start to embark upon that like petite junior age range where they're first of all hypersensitive because their hormones are out of control, but they're also just a lot more aware of where people are getting placed.
21:20
SPEAKER_04: And some of this I really do blame on some TV shows that you've watched because there's been such a you have to be in order to be the best, you have to be the lead and you have to be in the front.
21:31
SPEAKER_04: Well, there's not a lead in every dance.
21:34
SPEAKER_04: Like I don't have a girl in a special costume in not one of my dances.
21:38
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
21:38
SPEAKER_04: If you're the best person for this bot my leg hold turn and there's four of you, I'm gonna pick four of you.
21:45
SPEAKER_04: But if there's only one of you, then I'm gonna pick the one that's gonna nail it that they're money, is what I like to say.
21:51
SPEAKER_04: You know, they're gonna hit it all the time.
21:53
SPEAKER_06: Right.
21:53
SPEAKER_04: And it's really interesting because then you bump up to our team senior line and they know what they're good at.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: I mean half the time the seniors are like, I would like to go off stage and take a break, make the four teams come out and do this section that's rolling all over the floor.
22:07
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
22:08
SPEAKER_04: You know, like they they know, like when the you know, when we say, Okay, I need turns, they all point to this girl.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: You know, it's movement.
22:14
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's her.
22:15
SPEAKER_04: So it's like they it's not that they've categorized themselves, but they know what they're really, really, really good at.
22:21
SPEAKER_04: Where I feel like the petite junior beginning teen level, depending on, you know, I would say probably like eight to 14, somewhere in there, is where I feel at least at our studio, we have the most issues with jealousy.
22:35
SPEAKER_04: Because too, like, you know, they're starting to figure out like, are they good at tricks?
22:39
SPEAKER_04: Are they good at turns?
22:40
SPEAKER_04: Are they good movers?
22:42
SPEAKER_04: And in most cases, we're able to harness that and make it a positive environment, like healthy competition.
22:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah and not like negative, where okay, like, you know, I just had three dancers this week that all got aerial walkovers, front aerial walkovers.
22:57
SPEAKER_04: I guarantee you in the next two months, I'm gonna have four more that come right behind them because once somebody gets something, it fuels the fire and you know, a couple others to get it.
23:06
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's healthy.
23:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:08
SPEAKER_04: But it's you can you can automatically tell.
23:11
SPEAKER_04: I feel like at least I I can when I'm placing my dances, or even in classes, if I give, you know, a compliment to this student, you can tell me the kids' body language, whether they're excited and like motivated because that dancer's like, oh cool, I see what they're doing, or it's oh, well, she's just her favorite.
23:27
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
23:28
SPEAKER_03: Like you really can't.
23:29
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, you can't not have favorites, but I mean, I try to say every single dancer's name in class at least once.
23:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:38
SPEAKER_04: With you know, positive or you know, not I don't want to say negative, because I always say that my critiques are a little gift rep, but present to you.
23:45
SPEAKER_04: If I don't say your name, that's when you really need to be worried because you're either doing everything perfect or I just don't want to waste the breath in my body to tell you for the hundredth time to put your shoulders down or put your toes or oh, that was really nice.
23:57
SPEAKER_04: Because even when I do pay you a compliment, you look like you're mad at me.
24:00
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
24:01
SPEAKER_04: So it just, you know, I mean, that that's kind of what I have seen in the last.
24:07
SPEAKER_04: I would say, oh goodness.
24:09
SPEAKER_04: My oldest just turned 21 and she started competing when she was 11.
24:13
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, well, that's been like the last 10 years of dance, you know, and I some of that I like I said, I accredited to maybe a certain show that put this emphasis on if you're not this role, you're not good enough.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:26
SPEAKER_04: And then that's where like the jealousy starts to kick in because you know, that's what they see.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: Well, I have a very I have a funny anecdote that to let everybody know that even professional dancers get jealous because Courtney and my first job was on a cruise ship and we did a show called Boogie Wonderland.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: And there were four, four female dancers, four male dancers, and there were multiple parts in the show where some of us there were solos or there were duos, or it was just like one person, and then everybody everybody else was offstage.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: So, but you had to audition for those, you know, the four of us auditioning for these little parts for a job we already have.
25:00
SPEAKER_03: And at the time, uh, you know, Courtney and I were with two other really, really, really good dancers.
25:05
SPEAKER_03: Like we were a bomb cast of shorties, and it came time for the auditions.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: I really wanted the part of the brick house girl.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: Also, you don't remember the 70s song by the way.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: You don't remember.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you're gonna remember when I keep talking.
25:16
SPEAKER_03: So Brick House, she has this fierce costume.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: She's got the best solo.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: She does like a triple pirouette into a split, like it's a super fierce thing.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: I wanted that part so bad.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: I did not get that part, even though I was really good.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: My triple piramette was great.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: I got the dancing queen part, the ABBA dancing queen part where you stand on a platform which rotates, and you like did a couple of portabras.
25:42
SPEAKER_03: That is the part I got.
25:44
SPEAKER_03: And I was so jealous of Amber, God bless her, who did fabulously in the Amber Brick House.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: Amber, so good.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: I was so jealous.
25:51
SPEAKER_03: I was so jealous because I wanted it.
25:53
SPEAKER_03: I thought I was better, I thought I had the technique, I thought the performance I have red hair, like of course I'm gonna be the brick house, like fierce.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: But what I found as I performed that show week in and week out, that dancing queen part was so easy.
26:06
SPEAKER_03: I got that break.
26:07
SPEAKER_03: Just like Katie said, like that's what sparked that memory was because that's you know what?
26:11
SPEAKER_03: They cast me in that for whatever reason they cast me.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: I didn't need to be jealous because those poor you and Amber and Austin had to like bust their butt, you know, to do all these things.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: Meanwhile, I'm standing there just like moving my arms around.
26:23
SPEAKER_03: Like I had a nice break and I still got paid the same amount of money.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: So that's a perfect example.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: I think that like as you mature, and I think that's kind of what you're getting at, Katie, is like I'm really glad that you brought up the different age ranges of like jealousy in a studio because I think it's huge.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that's such a great point to bring up as as we grow and get older, we are more wise and we learn what like why are we jealous?
26:48
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's going on?
26:49
SPEAKER_02: And like that's a great example, Leslie, for you, because that was your first professional job, and like you're walking into this with that approach, and then you actually get on the job and you're like, oh, I'm so glad I'm not doing that every night.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: Like, you better give me that paycheck.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: I stand up here and move some arms.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to do a triple pirouette on a moving stage into a split.
27:07
SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
27:08
SPEAKER_03: And like give me my paycheck.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: That's like kind of the same thing that you're and I've experienced the exact same thing as far as when I was younger and in breaking into the industry.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: I was jealous if someone got a lead feature part in the show.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: Because I that's and it's we're, you know, talking professional right now for a split second, but it is a very different approach for me because there is jealousy in an audition room because you obviously like are comparing yourself against other dancers who are all trying to get the same job.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: And then you get the job.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: There shouldn't be any more jealousy at that point.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: We all got the same job, y'all.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: We are all getting paid the exact same thing.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to go and have a featured part, I'm gonna be sitting off stage eating chips and watching you do that and get paid the exact same amount of money.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: So at that point, I'm not jealous.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, oh, I like when you get older, you actually are like, less is more.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: Give me as little as possible to do Can I please just step touch enthusiastically and pay me money?
28:05
SPEAKER_02: Because it's it's like, what's the incentive?
28:07
SPEAKER_02: What's the incentive at that point to ooh, you have a feature?
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm doing that right side bat ma eight extra times a week than I don't have to, and damaging my body when I could be just doing the easy breezy track in the back.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: And of course, in a competitive world, dancers aren't thinking like that.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: But no, I do think like as they get older, like you said, Katie, it's like, oh well, give her the turns.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: She's the turner.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm not on my A game.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: I can't be consistent.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: I already know it.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: Like they're more realistic with the, you know, what's required for them.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: And and at the same time, that's like really encouraging and supportive of understanding your team and knowing like who has what strengths and how can we work collectively together to pull this off.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's like a skill and it that's like a great attribute to have uh in you know in a dance studio.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: But with that, I love that we were talking about ages.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: I think that that's a that's definitely like a great thing to elaborate on even more about like it's definitely the juniors and the teens.
29:04
SPEAKER_04: It's the juniors, always the juniors and I love them dearly.
29:10
SPEAKER_04: Everybody and everybody is a junior at some point, right?
29:13
SPEAKER_04: You know, we all get rocking up totem pole as you go, and that's why I try to tell them I'm like it's like a rite of passage to be that that junior.
29:20
SPEAKER_04: And I think the thing with the juniors too is it's like it it's work ethic.
29:23
SPEAKER_04: You have those juniors that come in and I mean I can just say this from you know, kids that I teach personally, if you're all listening to me, but like the the there's the ones that I know they're gonna go home and work on this.
29:36
SPEAKER_04: Like I know if I say this is it, they're gonna go home and work it, and then they're gonna come back and know it.
29:42
SPEAKER_04: And then there's other ones that, you know, they may give it like 50% or a thought.
29:46
SPEAKER_04: And then I have those that don't give it any thought.
29:48
SPEAKER_04: You know, so I mean it just and then, but then it's always the ones that don't go home and work on it that then sit there, they're the ones with the body language of the slumped shoulders and the side eye.
29:58
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, and the thing is, like, I used to, it used to make me very uncomfortable.
30:02
SPEAKER_04: But as I'm getting older now, I'm like, I just kind of call them out on it.
30:06
SPEAKER_04: And I'll be like, do you think you can do this part?
30:08
SPEAKER_04: We'll come on up here and do it.
30:10
SPEAKER_04: And and then that's when they have that, oh my God.
30:13
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, I think that's some of it too, is like when you hold the kids like accountable and say, Do you think you can do this?
30:19
SPEAKER_04: We'll come on up and do it.
30:20
SPEAKER_04: And then they realize they can't, it kind of puts them in their place and it kind of nips that jealousy in the butt a little bit because it's like, I'm not just picking anybody, I'm picking who is best for that at the moment.
30:31
SPEAKER_04: You know, and I always tell my dancers too, I'm like, I'll tell you what, like right now, like I was gonna use the Mick the Minis as an example, but like I had all 11 of them doing a pirouette and God, I love you, minis, you're working your little tail ends off, but some of us just don't have it yet.
30:44
SPEAKER_04: We're still turning the wrong direction.
30:46
SPEAKER_04: So I said, next week I'm taking this down to three dancers.
30:48
SPEAKER_04: I said, but varsity vision, our national goal is to have all 11 of you turning by nationals.
30:54
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it's like a challenge for them.
30:56
SPEAKER_04: And then it's like, okay, and those that want to rise to the occasion will, and those that don't won't, but like you can't get jealous because somebody has a better work ethic than you.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Well or just or just a better attribute for that.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, some kids in my studio, it's a chest stand.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: They all want to do a chest stand.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Some kids just don't have that flexible back to be able to hold that in that tight core.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen for everybody.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean that you should quit?
31:23
SPEAKER_00: No, that just means that you know what, maybe you're going to do something different behind them and and and look as amazing as they do, but you're going to be standing up and not on your chest, not the end of the world.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:35
SPEAKER_03: And I think at the junior age level is, you know, like you said, uh, Katie, they live in a fog prior to being like eight.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: And then once they're at that level, it really becomes apparent to them, oh, Sarah can do that thing and I can't.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh like they start to really realize what they're good at, what they're not.
31:54
SPEAKER_03: But I think what it still feels a little foggy, Ellen, like you were saying, like they just they they get singularly minded about the chest stand and they don't understand yet that a heel stretch is just as good.
32:05
SPEAKER_03: Right.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, you're the really good sassy poser, or whatever you are, you know, your attributes are just as important.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: They're just not the same.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: And that's what makes dance so beautiful, is that everybody has their unique capabilities.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: And it is tough to try to, you know, cater to we are trying to train dancers to be well-versed.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Like individually, yes, you're going to have different skill sets than others, but it across the board foundationally in the training, there should be some things that are cohesive for every dancer, and then the teacher will choreograph based on those skills that everyone's achieving.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: But as you were saying that scenario, Katie, of like, for example, everyone was in a turn section, now we've we've condensed it down to the three dancers who are consistently pulling it, that type of scenario.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: While that while you were saying that, I was immediately thinking of two things that could happen.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: And I want to know like how you would handle these uh in this scenario, because I'm sure it's happened many times in studios.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: That happens in the room, dancer comes home crying to mom.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Mom, I got pulled out of the turn section in the dance, and I don't know why.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: And the teacher was so mean to me, and they told me I couldn't do it.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: And then mom meanwhile, you were not mean.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, it was just a learning lesson, and keep on working on it, and it's just not here yet.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: And you have to do what's best for this moment in time as the teacher.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: That's the decision that they made.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: And then next thing you know, the mom is coming to the studio saying, Why did you pull my kid out of the turnsection?
33:40
SPEAKER_02: So there's scenario number one.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: The other scenario is kid gets pulled out of the turn section.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay, whatever.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Kids, whatever about it, you know, it is what it is.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Mom finds out, and mom's the one that's gonna come and raise you know what, to the studio and saying, Well, I cannot believe that you pulled my kid out of the turnsection and why would you do that?
34:01
SPEAKER_02: And she's obviously capable of doing the turn.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen her turns?
34:04
SPEAKER_02: They're amazing.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand why she would get pulled out of it.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Can you explain this to me?
34:09
SPEAKER_02: And again, it's like there's two scenarios there because the kid could be upset and the mom's trying to console and and fix that problem when the mom might not really care either way.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: It's just like, okay, the teacher made the decision, and that's a learning lesson for the the child and the parent together that they can have a conversation.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: But what do we do in those situations when mom comes to the studio and has to say something about that decision?
34:31
SPEAKER_04: We actually just had this happens, like it does, it does.
34:34
SPEAKER_04: Not with yeah, it happens.
34:36
SPEAKER_04: So mom comes in, we have a conversation.
34:39
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
34:40
SPEAKER_04: And I let them know this is a skill like that they're still working on.
34:45
SPEAKER_04: As they get it, we can put it back in the dance, but they weren't taken out because they're horrible.
34:49
SPEAKER_04: They're just not rotating at the same time as everybody else.
34:52
SPEAKER_04: They had this happen like it happens every year at some point in some dance.
34:56
SPEAKER_04: But I think the thing is too, I have to explain to the parent is I choreographed this turn section probably back in October.
35:04
SPEAKER_04: It's now January, and we're still not hitting it.
35:08
SPEAKER_04: So we've had four months to work on it and it's not there.
35:11
SPEAKER_04: And also, your child is not the only one that was taken out of the section.
35:16
SPEAKER_04: But like you said, okay, so they're not doing a turn.
35:19
SPEAKER_04: The pose that they're doing behind said turners is just important as the turn that is happening in the front.
35:25
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
35:26
SPEAKER_04: So I kind of handle it that way when the parents come in.
35:30
SPEAKER_04: I just have to explain to them that you know, the kids that are doing the turn have also been on team more than one year.
35:36
SPEAKER_04: It's not their first year.
35:37
SPEAKER_04: So they've been doing this said skill a little bit longer.
35:40
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
35:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:42
SPEAKER_04: And most of the time the parent calms down.
35:44
SPEAKER_04: Same thing though, if kid gets in the car, kid is crying, parent sends an email, you know, it's pretty much the same conversation.
35:52
SPEAKER_04: And I explained to the parent, I didn't say like they're out of it for forever.
35:56
SPEAKER_04: You know, we will re-audition this apart, this part after, like, you know, our first competition.
36:02
SPEAKER_04: If I've got, you know, if it works in the formation that I can add certain people back in, then we will.
36:08
SPEAKER_04: But if not, like it it's okay.
36:11
SPEAKER_04: It's not the end of the world, you know.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: It's just like um it's a learning lesson of rejection and the dancers can't handle rejection.
36:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're in we're in the whole everyone gets a trophy phase to prevent the rejection.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just like we that's the the world we're living in now, and something as small, you know, that's not we're not even talking about a trophy.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: We're not talking about your placement at a a prestigious event.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about something as small as you were removed from a feature that takes one count of eight in a dance.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: And you're you're handling it like this on the child's end, but also the parents' end.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Like I think the parents sometimes need to reals take a step back and realize this is a learning lesson for my kid.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: This is a life skill that they are learning in the classroom.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm paying for.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: And the parents have to be a little bit more understanding of this is a part of rejection, this is a part of life.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: And to me, when a parent gets defensive and immediately wants to question it, then have they, do they understand rejection?
37:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they're teaching their kids that.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, and I don't even know if it's a rejection.
37:16
SPEAKER_03: It's it's just you you're not there yet.
37:20
SPEAKER_03: Yet, the word yet is always used.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
37:23
SPEAKER_03: Yet just means there's more work to be done.
37:25
SPEAKER_03: And like you said, it's not no forever.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: It's no for this moment.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: Keep working on it for this moment.
37:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna tell you we're never gonna practice a turn again because you can't do it today.
37:33
SPEAKER_03: Right.
37:34
SPEAKER_04: Well, and I tell I tell the kids this too.
37:37
SPEAKER_04: I say, you know, let's think about it this way, you know?
37:40
SPEAKER_04: And and I'll say, like, okay, how many of you know what two plus two is?
37:43
SPEAKER_04: You know, and some of them say four right away, some of them don't.
37:45
SPEAKER_04: I said, it's like, it's like anything that you do at school.
37:48
SPEAKER_04: And we've really had to have this conversation a lot.
37:51
SPEAKER_04: And it does like go back to the whole jealousy thing, especially with the levels.
37:55
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, okay, so you guys go to school five days a week and you practice, you know, English or your times tables five days a week.
38:03
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, you come to the studio one day a week for an hour class, and we probably practice turns for 15 minutes.
38:11
SPEAKER_04: One day a week.
38:12
SPEAKER_04: So if we have a test coming up or like the competition is your test and this turn is in there and you know you're not the best at it, but you're not practicing at home, are you gonna get better at it?
38:23
SPEAKER_04: No, like you, you know, and that's it's kind of like some of the kids have had these light bulb moments of like, oh, well, yeah, I go to school every day and do the same thing, but I only come to dance one day a week and do this said thing one day a week.
38:35
SPEAKER_04: So if you don't put the extra time into it, which is one of the things I say to the parents too, I don't want don't force your kid to practice.
38:43
SPEAKER_04: It won't work, it will backfire.
38:45
SPEAKER_04: But if they're also not working on things at home, they're not going to gradually or naturally just get better at it.
38:53
SPEAKER_04: You know, you have to put that extra in.
38:55
SPEAKER_04: And the kids that are getting to stay in that turn section, A, have been on team longer and B probably practice at home a little bit more.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: I was going to say that parents need to sometimes just trust that the teacher is doing the right thing.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: When when they second guess or they take responsibility away from that dancer, that dancer can't progress.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: They can't, you know, like Katie's saying with the turns, if if the if the parent just says, Well, Miss Katie said that they can't be in the turn section, that's not fair.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe you need to say to to your dancer, Miss Katie says we need to go home and maybe work on those turns, you're going to get better if you work on them.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And trust that, trust that that teacher is making the right steps and decisions for the dancer.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: Because when when when a parent doesn't trust the teacher, the child doesn't trust the teacher, doesn't trust that they're going to do the right thing.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: And and you can't, without that trusting relationship, there's not going to be progress made.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: It just won't happen.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's key.
40:02
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, lack of trust will breed jealousy.
40:05
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, if you can't trust that your teacher is doing the right thing for you, but what if she's doing the right thing for Katie?
40:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: It's just you get this like very toxic culture, I think, if if there's so much questioning of the motives behind things.
40:19
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, y'all both mentioned, you know, things about why you would choose a a child to be in the front of the dance or to be the feature or whatever.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's it's important to remember too that like Katie said, there there might be some favoritism, but uh you're not my favorite because I like you the most.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: You're my favorite because you show up consistently.
40:37
SPEAKER_03: You do the work at home, you ask the right questions, you pay attention, you know, and that that's anybody's favorite person, is somebody who's consistently showing up to be there to do what they're supposed to do.
40:48
SPEAKER_03: They could, they could have a horrible personality.
40:51
SPEAKER_03: They probably don't, but like, you know, I think that's important too for parents to kind of check themselves and check their child and say, well, are I don't see you in class every day unless you have a viewing window or you have parents watch week all the time.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, is my child paying attention?
41:06
SPEAKER_03: Is my child, you know, not giving me that attitude or giving teacher that attitude or that body language of I'm not interested or I'm just jealous and I don't, you know, whatever.
41:15
SPEAKER_03: Like, Ellen, what did you say?
41:17
SPEAKER_03: You said something that led me to say this.
41:20
SPEAKER_03: Like sort of taking accountability for your child and you know, not just assuming the worst about the teacher.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Because you don't know what's going on in the in the classroom, like you said, and I there's always two sides to it.
41:33
SPEAKER_04: Well, I was gonna say, and too, like, not to discount what the kids are coming home and saying, because like my own children have done this, got in the car, and they're like, oh my God, and I just let them go.
41:43
SPEAKER_04: But then also, like, okay, well, did you hear every third word that the teacher said?
41:48
SPEAKER_04: Or did you just hone in on this phrase that they said?
41:51
SPEAKER_04: Like, what happened before it and after it?
41:53
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
41:54
SPEAKER_04: Like, and that's the thing too.
41:55
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I've never looked at my kids and been like, well, you're lying because your teacher's perfect and amazing.
42:00
SPEAKER_04: But like you have to play like devil's advocate with your child and go, okay, but let's let's look at it from this this angle.
42:08
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
42:09
SPEAKER_04: Just to give them another perspective of it.
42:12
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, nine times out of ten, the parents that like have concerns, they're usually legit, they're usually calm, and or they're they'll usually send us an email and go, okay, Sally got in the car, she was upset about this.
42:24
SPEAKER_04: I don't know if I believe everything that she was saying.
42:26
SPEAKER_04: Can we have a conversation?
42:28
SPEAKER_04: And that is the one thing I love about our studio and our studio owner is that when there are issues, I mean, we immediately just have a meeting, let's have a conversation face to face, not email, not texting.
42:39
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we can just get to the bottom of nip it in the butt, and then we move on about our lives.
42:43
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know.
42:50
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44:08
SPEAKER_02: And now let's get back to the show.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: And with that being said, and we're kind of talking on like a the parent side of things a little bit now, how besides just having conversations with the studio owner and the parent directly in regards to something that the parent might be jealous about, you know, a placement or things we've been talking about.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: What about like parent-to-parent jealousy?
44:38
SPEAKER_02: And then how do the studio owners like mediate that and control that?
44:44
SPEAKER_02: Because that might be happening outside of the studio.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: So how how do you find out about it?
44:50
SPEAKER_02: Is it just like little rumors that are going around?
44:52
SPEAKER_02: Or do you have you ever seen it in person with your eyes happen?
44:57
SPEAKER_02: Like a a jealousy battle between parents?
45:00
SPEAKER_02: And is do you have anything in the studio to prevent that as far as like a code of conduct that people sign?
45:07
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, tell me about that.
45:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm curious.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: I haven't had too many issues with parent-to-parent.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: That being said, I think they can sometimes adults are smart enough to know not to air all of that.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of maybe private messages or you know, private conversations, not as open as children.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I uh obviously kids kids don't don't don't think that far ahead that maybe this shouldn't be said out loud or on Snapchat, you know.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: But parents keep that a little more quiet.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: But in when when it all comes down to brass tacks, really are are your kids is is there a reason to be jealous, or is there one dancer that's like we said, working harder, going home and practicing, that type of thing?
45:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, obviously kids get picked for different things, they win different awards, they you know, all of that stuff.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: Is it warranted?
46:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, is the child that's that's being put in the front row, like we said, is she going home and practicing?
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Or is it just because we like her best?
46:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's generally not it.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: It's the kids that are going home and practicing and and and have a natural ability too.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: That's always part of it too.
46:19
SPEAKER_04: We do have, gosh, I think I don't remember.
46:22
SPEAKER_04: I think it's like we have an 18-page contract that our studio, our company members sign.
46:27
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, oh yeah, it's it's everything from code of conduct that you know, you've read over everything, you know your dates, yada, yada, yada.
46:34
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, we do have that.
46:36
SPEAKER_04: There have been a couple instances, and yes, we've had to have some meetings with parents and we bring out that code of conduct.
46:43
SPEAKER_04: Most of the time, I feel like, like you said, it's if it happens inside the walls of the studio or at a competition or at a convention, yes, we address it because you know, it's happening at a place where our studios and you at that point are, you know, Sally Smith, you are representing DPU dance because most of our parents have on, you know, our logo and stuff.
47:04
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, there's been a couple instances where yes, we've had to have those meetings, but for the most part, I would say the parents are pretty chill.
47:13
SPEAKER_04: I find that social media parents can hide behind their kids' social media.
47:19
SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna say it right like that.
47:21
SPEAKER_04: You know, I I run Andrea's Instagram.
47:24
SPEAKER_04: I rarely post on it anymore because she's 14 and, you know, she's into high school now and not so much about dance photos and this and that.
47:31
SPEAKER_04: But, you know, a six-year-old that has an Instagram account and they post these vague quotes, you know, or maybe not six-year-old, let's maybe bump that up to like 11, 12.
47:42
SPEAKER_04: They've post these vague quotes and maybe something's been happening because, you know, it it makes you go, okay, you know what I mean?
47:49
SPEAKER_04: And we've had those instances where we see these things and there they'll be like hashtags, you know, and and they're they're loaded, they're loaded hashtags, you know what I mean?
47:59
SPEAKER_04: Like not always second or something along those lines.
48:03
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, we have had to call parents in and go, what is this about?
48:06
SPEAKER_04: You know, because I mean maybe there's been something that happened in the studio that night in a group routine where, you know, Sally was put in the back row or didn't get this part, you know what I mean?
48:16
SPEAKER_04: So it's loaded.
48:17
SPEAKER_04: So I think like parents also have to think, but if you do that on your daughter or son's Instagram account and you're posting these vague quotes with these loaded hashtags behind it, it's coming off as your kid.
48:30
SPEAKER_04: So you're not making your kid look like you know they're a team player and this and that and the other.
48:34
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, we've had those instances for the most part, like I said, if it doesn't happen within the walls of the studio, we don't address it because we feel that it's outside of our jurisdiction, basically, you know, dancer or parents.
48:49
SPEAKER_04: You know, because I mean, obviously I have kids that dance, my kids are friends with these kids, and my kids will come home and they'll tell me things and I'm like, if it didn't happen the studio, I don't want to know about it.
48:59
SPEAKER_04: I also feel that the jealousy gets worse the closer we get to comp season.
49:05
SPEAKER_04: Like at the beginning of the season, it's a little heightened because it's new routines and who's going to be placed in the front.
49:11
SPEAKER_04: And then it like mellows out until about right now in January.
49:15
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, because like, okay, at the end of the day, yes, I am a teacher, but I'm also a mom.
49:20
SPEAKER_04: And I say, I got a little bit of crazy dance mom in me, but I know when to tuck that in.
49:25
SPEAKER_04: You know, and I always tell I'm like, if if she starts coming out, just look at me and say, tuck it in.
49:29
unknown: You know what I mean?
49:30
SPEAKER_04: And and some people just don't know how to tuck it in, you know, and it's as little as, you know, I think the things that I see at comp is just, you know, parents that don't clap.
49:42
SPEAKER_04: And I I I can say this right now, like, you know, my daughters have made it into showdown.
49:47
SPEAKER_04: Said parent doesn't come down to watch, doesn't clap for her, doesn't say good job.
49:52
SPEAKER_04: But you know what I mean you know what I mean?
49:53
SPEAKER_04: But like even if I wasn't a teacher, I'm still clapping for your child.
49:58
SPEAKER_04: My child's clapping for your child.
50:00
SPEAKER_04: We're watching your child.
50:02
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's the biggest thing that I see like at comms.
50:06
SPEAKER_04: It's just the lack of like support.
50:09
SPEAKER_04: And the sad thing is like I notice it, but when my 10, my 11-year-old notices it that, oh, this mom never says good job to me.
50:17
SPEAKER_04: Right.
50:17
SPEAKER_04: This dancer never says good job to me.
50:20
SPEAKER_04: Like that hurts hurts them, but like it's not really worth the breath in my body to go, you know, could you clap for my dancer?
50:27
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
50:28
SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, if that's how you want to play, you go ahead.
50:31
SPEAKER_04: That's fine, you do you.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna keep doing me.
50:33
SPEAKER_02: It just is sad that that is how like what we're teaching our kids a little bit, you know, like it because it's gonna it's gonna try So some people are teaching them.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Some people because it's again, it's it's really important to be that team player, like you said, and to be a good person.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: It's not hard to just say good job.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: It's not hard to clap and acknowledge someone instead of crossing your arms and giving a snooty face and being a mean girl, you know, like we've all seen the movie.
51:03
SPEAKER_02: Like we don't we you don't want to be a mean person.
51:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not that'll really like saying something like good job.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: I remember Leslie, um you shared a story once from an audition where someone came up to you after an audition and and told you you were so fantastic.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm sorry you got cut, but you are so awesome.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: Something like that can make somebody's day, and it will be remembered for such a long time that it's not hard.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: And the same the flip side of that, it that dancer will remember that person was never really that supportive of me.
51:38
SPEAKER_02: And that mom was never that nice to me.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, why would you want to go through life like like what?
51:44
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's crazy.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna they're gonna the dancers or the parents who are approaching life like that, it's going to continue on with them.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: Like that dancer who's learning that from their parent, they're gonna go through life like that, and they're always gonna be the kind of just like well, I'm not clapping for them.
52:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they got the part that I didn't get.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like, oh, they got the part, that's awesome, like really great job.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I hopefully I'll get it next time.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, approach things a little bit more in that perspective and way can get you a little bit further in life than you might think.
52:15
SPEAKER_04: Well, just do unto others.
52:16
SPEAKER_04: That's what I tell my kids.
52:18
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, doesn't it feel good when someone else claps for you?
52:20
SPEAKER_04: Like I think that's one of the things too that like kind of off topic, but I'm gonna say it real quick, just for your parents that are out there listening.
52:26
SPEAKER_04: We do comps where it's like, I'm just there with just my kids because we're thank goodness at our studio, we're allowed to go do other things, not just our mandatory events.
52:35
SPEAKER_04: So it'll be just me with my kids, and I'm the only person, and they walk out on stage and I'm the only person clapping.
52:41
SPEAKER_04: Right.
52:41
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, like, you know, clap for every dancer because A, first of all, it takes balls to get out on that stage and do what those kids do.
52:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:50
SPEAKER_04: And they rehearse just as long as each other.
52:52
SPEAKER_04: Some maybe longer, some maybe shorter.
52:54
SPEAKER_04: But like you can do like an eight clap minimum.
52:57
SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm literally like, I'm always like, somebody needs to invent like the dance mom clap app, you know?
53:03
SPEAKER_04: And I said, I'm just like, you know, like, but like clap for each other.
53:07
SPEAKER_04: What don't just wait till they're done and be like, oh, well, they were really good.
53:09
SPEAKER_04: Now I'm gonna clap.
53:10
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I just I don't understand because two also just at the end of the day, it's dance.
53:17
SPEAKER_04: It is not that serious.
53:19
SPEAKER_04: And I keep telling my kids over and over, not my biological kids, but the kids that I teach, like, you are if you want to do anything professionally after your professional competitive career, you're not gonna put on your resume that you won first overall at blah, blah, blah competition.
53:33
SPEAKER_04: No, no one's gonna care if you go into a professional job where you placed.
53:37
SPEAKER_04: So just be nice to each other, clap for each other, tell each other good job when a dancer did good job.
53:43
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I don't know.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: When when my kids were at Diva a couple weeks ago, my two in our in our teenage uh solo group, I mean, obviously there's a thousand, my the two, the top two were both my girls, and they were separated by 0.2.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: And when they come we we were so happy that the girls that won, Kayla, won overall.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: She'd had a really, really tough fall and really had some things that she worked through, and it was really amazing to see her overcome that and and win first overall.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: And with it's Eva, you get the crown and the whole nine yards, and it was really amazing.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: And my daughter came in second and they hugged on stage.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: They were both truly so happy for each other.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: And I posted about that because when we got the pictures back, there was just the nicest picture of the two of them.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: And just because that girl won first place doesn't mean that second, third, fourth, fifth, you don't lose.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: It just wasn't your day to win.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing wrong with that.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: And like Katie said, in 10 years, that crown is going to be in the back of Kayla's closet.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: But those relationships that those kids have made are not going to be in the back of the closet.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Those relationships, those true friendships where you can hold each other up and be supportive when somebody's done well or be supportive when they need that support, that's what's going to matter.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we should be focusing on and not necessarily who did 14 turns in a row or who won or who, who, you know, whatever, got a special award.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: We should be focusing on those relationships that those kids are making on there.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: That's that's what's more important.
55:22
SPEAKER_04: On the flip side, too, like what you're saying about that.
55:24
SPEAKER_04: I totally agree with everything you just said.
55:26
SPEAKER_04: It's okay to be upset because you wanted first two.
55:30
SPEAKER_04: It's okay to be a little bit jealous, but then let's look at it and let's go, okay, let's go watch our take back and let's see what do we got to work on to get there.
55:38
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's where it comes back to that work ethic.
55:41
SPEAKER_04: The dancer that wants that's gonna come in and work and be hungry for it.
55:44
SPEAKER_04: And the others are just gonna sit back and go, well, they just liked her more.
55:47
SPEAKER_04: She had a better costume, she had the better choreography.
55:50
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know what I mean?
55:51
SPEAKER_04: If there's it's an excuse monster, and then you just go down that downward spiral of just, you know, negativity instead of, like you said, be excited for your teammate, and then you can be a little sad later, but go, all right, maybe I'll maybe next week is my my time, you know what I mean?
56:07
SPEAKER_00: Like and those excuses take the a dancer can't progress when the excuse is is the whole thing.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: If they're saying, Well, I didn't win first because Susie won first because they liked Susie better, well, that means that you could not have won.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing you can do to change to be the one that's that's on the top.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: If a parent or a dancer can say, you know, she was able to, you know, connect with the audience or do this and that, and and that's why she won, then you can look at your own performance and say, I can sharpen this skill or I can connect more with the audience, or you know, and then take ownership of that rather than pass the buck.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
56:48
SPEAKER_02: While you were sharing that beautiful uh story about your dancers getting first and second, Ellen, it immediately made me think of something recently, and I actually just shared this video with you, Leslie, that my mom stumbled upon.
57:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, yeah.
57:06
SPEAKER_02: As you were saying that, it made me think of this video.
57:08
SPEAKER_02: So my mom was going through old home videos uh b of you know, we all have them, and somehow she has a video of the award ceremony uh at a national event where and it was Star Quest actually, where I somehow won first overall senior solo.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: And that's not the same.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean, hon honestly, I still don't really I don't even remember this to be quite honest.
57:31
SPEAKER_02: So when she sent this to me and it was a reaction video, it was the announcement of the award, and then you saw the other dancers lined up, and then you saw my reaction of winning, and then how just everything about like how I was taking in that moment.
57:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it brought like tears to my eyes because that's like little young 15, 16-year-old Courtney, and it just was so amazing to see how humble I was back then at uh to look back now.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: You were so shocked, like tiny little Courtney.
58:02
SPEAKER_03: Like I watched it and I was you looked completely flabbergasted that this could have ever happened.
58:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
58:06
SPEAKER_03: Because I knew it was the genuine like emotion of are you are you kidding me?
58:11
SPEAKER_03: Like I mean it was it was really cool to see.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: It was and it really it just like because I don't remember that.
58:17
SPEAKER_02: So to have that footage and to like relive it and and see like that's how I was like it made me so proud of who I like who I was then and looking back and reflecting on that.
58:27
SPEAKER_02: And then after you know the announcement was complete and everything, then the dancers alongside me who got the second and third acknowledging and saying thank you to me and us having a moment.
58:38
SPEAKER_02: And I want to see that more.
58:40
SPEAKER_02: And I guess like what I'm trying to get at is that like now I'm you know, 20 years later looking back on and reflecting on like that moment in time and thinking, wow, I'm so proud of who I turned out, like turned out to be as a person, not about my accomplishments, it's not about that.
58:56
SPEAKER_02: It's about I was so shocked in that moment because of the amazing talent that I was up against, and I couldn't believe I was so honored for that achievement.
59:04
SPEAKER_02: But I was equally as proud to be standing next to these dancers up on that stage and have competed against them.
59:10
SPEAKER_02: And we all are winners in that moment, and then all of us weren't afraid to say good job to one another.
59:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's just so cool to relive that.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: And I think like moments like that, like I said, it will change your life if someone can take the time to say amazing or go out of their way and say, good job, you deserved this, or your solo was fantastic, even if you got 10th place.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: Like it's you know, it's and that's what we're we should be teaching our kids, is because I brought that into my entire life.
59:37
SPEAKER_02: Like it's I looking back at that, I was like, no wonder I'm the way that I am in my adult life.
59:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm very supportive.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: I love like hustling and finding other people people gigs and helping people out.
59:48
SPEAKER_02: Like that's what I learned from growing up.
59:50
SPEAKER_02: I didn't I didn't have that snooty mean girl, I'm the best type of you know, approach to my entire cur competitive career.
59:57
SPEAKER_02: And I was able to have that throughout my audition career and throughout my professional journey as an adult, which is what we should be teaching our kids.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_02: We're all gonna be jealous at times, you know.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_02: We're all we have that in us.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_02: Like you said, it's like bred inside of us, jealousy exists.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_02: And I I I we still like I vents all the time about can't believe this.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, can't believe this has happened.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: And like that's jealousy.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_03: But I think it's just but then it's what you do with it.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_03: It's how you react to it.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_03: It's do you turn it into something you can move forward from or do you fester in it?
1:00:27
SPEAKER_03: And and that's also human too.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_03: Like, listen, nobody is saying that that's doesn't happen.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: Like, I can sink into some jealousy real quick.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_03: And and you have to like it that that is, however, in order to try to pull yourself out of that, that's where parenting comes in.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_03: That's where studio teachers come in to try to instill the no, this is not something you need to fester in.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can be upset.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_03: Please like have your feelings, of course.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_03: But then what do you do to combat that?
1:00:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, and that comes from parenting, that comes from having mentors and adults in your life, you know, kids out there who are the good influences of saying, you know what, you you are talented.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_03: You just need to work a little harder.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes you have to say things like that to hold them accountable and make that jealousy motivate you rather than make you mean.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_03: I want to hear a little bit from both of you because you both have daughters that dance about jealousy between siblings.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_03: Because I know, you know, I had I have a sister who danced, and we we didn't really have dance jealousy, really, because I was always more serious than she was, and she would tell you that to this day.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_03: Like she liked it, enjoyed it, was good at it, but didn't care about it as much as I did.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_03: So, like it never factored in.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_03: But like Ellen, I I know who your daughters are.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, they both seem to really care and are good at it.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_03: So I and they're close in age, so I would love to hear a little bit about that experience.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_03: Just, you know, you have a unique experience being the studio owner and mother of two dancers.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: My two youngest that compete, they both are talented kids, but very differently talented.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: My my middle daughter, Grady, she's a mover, she's an artist, she's she, you know, she's she technically has a very just an easier time.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_00: It just comes more naturally to her.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: My youngest one, she's a comedian, she's an audience pleaser, people remember her.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_00: And so luckily they're so different that um they each have their own uniqueness.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't see a whole lot of jealousy, but I you know, but like I said, they're they're both so unique that they they really sort of complement each other and help each other in that.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm lucky that they're not super jealous.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: Now at home, they're jealous a lot.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: Not so much, not so much in the studio, but you know, sisters.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, and that's that's also great that like, you know, and I think this applies to I think all parents of kids who maybe do similar activities, like dance.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_03: You recognize that your dancers are unique.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_03: Your kids are unique.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: One of them has these skills, one of them has those.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_03: You're not trying to compare the two because they're totally different.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, the attitude of the parent in that situation too will possibly could play into like some jealousy factors because if if you were, you know, really wanting Grady to be that comedian that she's just not, like that could also be a a scenario that could could breed some jealousy too.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: Definitely, yeah.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: And and kids should be allowed to be who they are.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_00: They all can't, you know, like we've we've talked about before, they all don't have the same skills.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: They all, you know, they all can't fit into the same box.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_00: Find what makes you unique and and use that to your benefit rather than being jealous that you can't do something that somebody else can do.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_04: Anything with you, Katie, with your kids?
1:03:38
SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, there's such an age gap in them.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_04: And it's it's funny because I mean, you know, my oldest is 21 and then Andrea's 14, Kaylee's 18.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_04: But like when they were little, I think what there was never any like jealousy.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_04: They would push all the furniture out of the living room and they would turn on dance moms and they would play top that, and one of them would do something, and like that's how they kind of got good.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_04: That's how the little one got good.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_04: Because he was watching, you know, I had a teen and a junior and a mini at one point.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_04: And the thing is, like, you know, my kids are talented.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna say that they're not, they're talented.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_04: Like, we go to comps, they place they all usually do, but like there's never jealousy within them.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_04: And I actually asked Andrea this actually in December about that.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_04: And she's like, I was like, Have you ever been jealous of Ken's or Kaylee?
1:04:29
SPEAKER_04: And she's like, Why would I be?
1:04:30
SPEAKER_04: She's like, We've never even competed at the same level.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_04: Like, they've never competed head to head once.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_04: My oldest and my second did, and they went one-two.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Okay.
1:04:40
SPEAKER_04: And then there was one other time they did, and the older one didn't even place at all.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_04: So that was very interesting.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_04: And my middle child Kaylee will still say, I beat her once.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_04: But it's like it's a friendly, like competitive rivalry there.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_04: And you know, I think the thing is too, like, we had a nationals a few years ago, and they all made it into the dancer of the year finals.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_04: And they, let's see, uh, Kenzie, she made it.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_04: She was one of the five runner-ups.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_04: Kaylee didn't make it into the runner-ups, and Andrea actually won Junior Dancer of the Year.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_04: But like the thing was like Kaylee was sad because she would always go, I'm just the middle of the Oreo cookie between them and their crowns.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_04: You know, but like, but she was never like like jealous or upset about it.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_04: Like they were still really like supportive of each other.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_04: And I know we have some of these like siblings like within our studio now, and they're having to learn how to navigate that because you know, one will get, you know, the top adjudication or a scholarship and the other one doesn't.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes it's kind of nasty.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_04: And it's like if you can't be supportive of your sibling, there is no way you're being supportive of your teammates because that's your blood.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_04: You know, I mean, like it, you know, and you're in different age levels.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:05:55
SPEAKER_04: Like, if you weren't competing as you know, a teen and you were down.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_04: In the junior category with her, I'm sure you would have got something too.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_04: But like instead be happy.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_04: Don't like begrudge that.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_04: And I think the thing that was really hard for me to navigate early on, especially like when Andrea was six, we had done a nationals that year again, dancer of the year finals.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_04: Dee was the only one that made it as a runner-up.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_04: Kenzie and Kaylee didn't.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_04: And I didn't get to go on stage and take the pictures that I wanted of Dee, not because her sisters were upset that she won, but because they were upset that they didn't.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_04: So it after that was a realization of me having to learn that okay, you guys are allowed to be upset if this doesn't turn out the way you want.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_04: But then I need you to go to the dressing room and let me let her have her moment.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:06:44
SPEAKER_04: So like that, that was really hard to kind of navigate at first, but I wouldn't say that they've ever been like jealous of each other.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_04: But I have seen that happen.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_04: So, and there again, it's one of those things that as I feel like as teachers and studio owners, that's a parent issue.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_04: Like we, you know, we can talk to the kids and be like, look, like and we usually do it in a group setting.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_04: Like you guys need to be supportive of each other and your siblings.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_04: But you know, if you see things happen, mom standing right there, we can't intervene on that because that's that that's your parenting.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:07:19
SPEAKER_04: So it's it's kind of a fine line to walk, but all you can do is suggest it like in a classroom setting and hope that the kids are listening.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh final thing I want to ask before we wrap this up.
1:07:32
SPEAKER_02: And it has to do with the fact that you are both teachers and have your kids at the studio.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_02: So has there ever been any jealousy from other dancers because uh your daughter is the dance teacher of class and or you know, the studio owner?
1:07:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, of course you're gonna get in the front because your mom is the owner of the studio type of uh perspective, or from the parents as well.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever experienced that?
1:07:59
SPEAKER_04: I mean, maybe not to my face, but I'm sure, you know, I've been, you know, I I I taught Andrea longer in a classroom setting than I did Kaylee.
1:08:11
SPEAKER_04: And I remember, like, in particular, there was an acro routine that we were choreographing, and I had two dancers.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_04: It was her and another dancer, and this like, you know, round off back tuck section, and the other one couldn't hit it.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_04: So I took her out and I was afraid I was gonna get maybe some flack from the mom because the mom was so cool.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_04: She was like, no, she can't do it, she can't do it.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_04: But I could tell that the kid was upset, and I did tend to feature Andrea front and center because like acro is like one of her niches that she's just really good at.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_04: And I went to our studio owner and I said, I was like, is this okay?
1:08:42
SPEAKER_04: And she looked at me point blank, and this has happened several times.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_04: She goes, Is she the best person for that part?
1:08:48
SPEAKER_04: Can she do all of it?
1:08:49
SPEAKER_04: And I said, Yes.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_04: And she goes, then you're fine.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_04: She goes, if you were putting her or any like any of your daughters in parts that they can't handle or in front in parts where they constantly mess up, then yes, it becomes an issue.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_04: But I mean, I feel like I was always more when they were little or not now because they're a teen and senior, but like I was always harder on them than anyone else, you know, because it's like if if I'm gonna be this hard on my own kid, you best believe I'm expecting just as much from you.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_04: But like I would also stick them in the back, stick them on the sides.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_04: Like they weren't always featured.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_04: I try really, really hard to like move kids around the stage, but I mean, I don't know, like you can tell sometimes, like I said, you can read kids' body language when I'm doing formations, and yes, my kid is in the front, you know, but I've never had anybody say it to my face.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: There's been some jealousy with my kids.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_00: And if I ever thought it was warranted, I did uh address it and maybe, you know, really give think twice about where I had put them.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: But when you're when you're the teacher, if there's anybody in the room that you really know, it's your own kid.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_00: You know if they can handle the pressure of doing what you're asking them to do.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly, my kids rarely got a private lesson.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_00: They rarely got the first costume out of the box.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, if somebody was missing a costume, I would take it off my kid and give it away.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, they they didn't get special treatment in that because, you know, it's if somebody's gonna get the short end of the stick, it is your own kids.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_00: I've always agreed.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've always hired somebody else to teach my kids their private lessons because I never had time because I always had the other ones that I was doing.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it sometimes seems like that that teachers' children are getting special treatment.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: But if you look at it from the other side of the, yeah, they're not.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_00: They're not.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_00: They're they're usually the ones that are getting what's left over, unfortunately.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_00: And often they still rise to the occasion and still, you know, push themselves.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_04: So and I think some of that happens too, because like I just know, especially when my kids were younger, they were just at the studio all the time.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_04: So they were constantly taking classes, constantly in a room.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_04: Like my kids were self-motivated.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:10:58
SPEAKER_04: Like there's kids that are in that like that's just I think sometimes in your DNA, you're either like you're a self-motivated human being or you're not.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_04: And you know, I mean they could have sat out there on their iPads, but instead they were in rooms working on turns, working on acro, making up dances with their friends.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_04: They were just, they were always dancing, yeah, which I think is why they got they got good.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_04: But it's not like there was a teacher in those rooms teaching them.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_04: They were doing it on their own.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_04: And while I'm in working on costumes or admins, they'd come in and be like, mom, look at this blah blah turn that I did.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:11:28
SPEAKER_04: Like, and you're exactly right, Ellen.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_04: Like comp weekends, like I'm not there as a mom, which I get told that a lot by my kids.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_04: I need you to be my mom right now.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, okay, you know what I mean?
1:11:40
SPEAKER_04: Like, and it's it's it's it's very, very hard to do to ride that line of mom and dance teacher, studio owner, because you can only do so much.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_04: And it's like I can't, I it sounds so awful, but it's like I have more guilt if I don't attend to a paying client's kid than not paying attention to my own kid, which is so messed up.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_04: So messed up.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like my kids, our kids are resilient because of it, and they they they learn how to help not only themselves, but help others.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: My two youngest ones really take care of each other and make sure that they've got what they need.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_00: And I've got amazing dance moms that make sure they take some pictures backstage of my kids for me, and you know, it all works out.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_00: It all works out.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, if it wasn't for some of well, and it even other teachers, I'll be like, I'm off with the minis, can tag your it, can you make sure Kaylee's got her costume on, not backwards?
1:12:40
SPEAKER_04: And this is a true story.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_04: You know, but you feel like, and sometimes honestly, like it's just easier like that too, just to be like, Will you please take care of them because I have to go do this because they're gonna yell at me and don't do this right now.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_04: So it's a give and a take.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_04: And it took me a while to figure that.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_04: It was my oldest looking at me at a competition.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_04: She came off stage and I said something about her turns, or I don't even remember.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_04: And she looked at me, she goes, You are not my teacher.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_04: And I went, Oh, okay.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_04: You're right, great job, honey.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_04: So literally, next next comp comes along.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you know, I'm practicing what I'm preaching because this is what I tell our parents now.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, your job is to be your kid's biggest cheerleader.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_04: Don't tell them they missed that turn or that jump or their face strap.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_04: Trust me, they know.
1:13:23
SPEAKER_04: But if you tell them that, it's gone the rest of the day.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_04: Be their cheerleader.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_04: And I remember at second comp, she comes off and I'm like, it was so good.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_04: I'm like crying.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_04: And then like two hours later, she comes over and she goes, Okay, now is my dance teacher.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_04: How did I do?
1:13:38
SPEAKER_04: Like I had to wait for her to ask me.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_04: And so I learned that with my first kid that now this is what I do with the second two.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:13:47
SPEAKER_04: Just it was so amazing.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, well, how was it really?
1:13:50
SPEAKER_06: Right.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_04: Oh well, you know, I mean, it looked a little bit better last time, but you know, or it was so much better, like whatever.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_04: But you know, I mean, at the end of the day, too, I think like if we if as parents, like we said, it's we we we set the precedent for our kids.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, if we're supporting them and we're supporting every other dancer around them, then they're gonna do the same thing.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_04: And if you don't do that, you're gonna be that parent sitting in the auditorium by yourself.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_03: Angry.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, angry because uh, you know, your kid didn't get the jacket or whatever, you know.
1:14:22
SPEAKER_04: Like, no, just instead, you'd be like, you know what?
1:14:25
SPEAKER_04: There's a also if your studio allows you to do like optional stuff, there are a thousand competitions out there.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_04: Find one that's your kid's niche and go to it.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:14:35
SPEAKER_04: Like, there's lots of opportunities out there.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_02: As you were talking about uh Katie being the mom or the teacher in the moment off stage, I had horrible flashbacks of my mom, sorry, mom reactions when I would get off stage and she's not a teacher, so she would always be like, I mean, you fell out of your turns, but it was fine.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Oh god, mom didn't support me.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_04: Tell me I was great, even if I wasn't.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's that's what I tell them to do.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, just you pay us to be the heavy.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_04: So let us do it.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_04: Like instead, just like I said, it takes takes some really big balls for those kids to get out there and do what they do.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_04: So just love them and support them.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_04: Like, and you would be surprised how far that goes, especially in a long day of comp.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_04: Like, and you know, too, like at the end of the day, as parents to our kids, our opinion means the most.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_04: So we can either set them up for success the rest of the weekend or we can just like be a soul crusher right at the beginning.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_04: So true.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, y'all, this was a really important chat and a really informative chat all about jealousy today on the podcast.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_02: Thank you both to our guests, Ellen and Katie, for joining us on this wonderful chat.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_02: I've loved hearing y'all's perspectives, and you guys are fantastic.
1:15:54
SPEAKER_02: So if you would wouldn't mind leading us out on this episode by sharing just one final thought on the topic, all about jealousy.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_02: Whoever wants to go first, you can talk to dancers, teachers, studio owners, parents, whoever you'd like.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_00: Don't always focus on the on the win.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_00: There's lots of ways to win.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to win by taking first overall, or that there's lots of ways to win.
1:16:18
SPEAKER_00: Focus on those wins, and then each dancer has their own wins, and hopefully the jealousy will be secondary.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think like just the most important thing is be realistic with your kids.
1:16:31
SPEAKER_04: Look at every everything that they come home and they say and they think and they feel should be validated, but look at it from both sides.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, instead of agreeing with them and feeding into the negativity, instead, let's try to think of ways that we can be more positive and how we can help them get to where they want to be.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to this week's episode all about jealousy at the dance studio.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_02: Be sure to follow our special guests on social media.
1:16:57
SPEAKER_02: You can find Katie at Cruise Creation and follow Ellen Studio off Broadway Dance Center on Instagram at OBBC underscore 5678.
1:17:08
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1:17:37
SPEAKER_02: Are you looking for even more personalized, in-depth feedback from your standard judges' critiques that you've been receiving at competition this season?
1:17:44
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1:17:53
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1:18:05
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1:18:16
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1:18:22
SPEAKER_03: Coming up in the next few weeks on Making the Impact, we've got episodes on Precision Dance, how to brand yourself as a dancer, and our next Spotlight feature.
1:18:31
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next week.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_02: Until then, keep dancing.