Latest / onefjef / Biking the Entire Western Hemisphere with Gary Clarke (Re-Release)

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Biking the Entire Western Hemisphere with Gary Clarke (Re-Release) · onefjef

• 0:02
  Hola, mis amigos y amigas.
• 0:03
  Es Jef.
• 0:03
  ¿Qué onda?
• 0:07
  How are you?
• 0:09
  As always and forever, I hope you are thriving.
• 0:13
  I looked it up.
• 0:13
  There is unfortunately no word for thriving in Spanish.
• 0:18
  The closest I can get is like super bien or muy bien,
• 0:24
  but it's not really the same.
• 0:25
  It doesn't feel the same.
• 0:27
  And, uh, yeah, I'm not here to suggest that another word be
• 0:31
  added to the Spanish language.
• 0:32
  I am not here to suggest that because there are plenty, plenty of words.
• 0:39
  But if there is some sort of a list of words waiting to be added to the Spanish
• 0:44
  language, I hope that thrive is on it.
• 0:50
  Maybe thrivendo or thrivo or something.
• 0:54
  I don't know.
• 0:55
  It's-- You figure it out.
• 0:57
  Anyway, this here episode is the last of the onefjef re-released episodes for
• 1:05
  the hiatus of twenty twenty-six, which means I have to stop procrastinating
• 1:10
  and start editing these interviews that I recorded a while back.
• 1:14
  I will.
• 1:15
  I must.
• 1:17
  I will.
• 1:19
  It has been nice to have a bit of, uh, downtime, a bit of a break,
• 1:22
  though, and it feels like it flew by.
• 1:26
  I mean, I've been in this new apartment for a month today, which is
• 1:30
  crazy to me, not necessarily to you.
• 1:32
  I mean, maybe to you, but to me, it feels like just yesterday
• 1:36
  that I moved in and enjoyed my terrace for the very first time.
• 1:41
  And now thirty days or thirty-one days have passed.
• 1:45
  Time it does, don't it?
• 1:48
  Yes, it do.
• 1:50
  And what episode might you be re-releasing this week, Jef?
• 1:55
  Well, I'm glad you asked.
• 1:58
  I will be re-releasing the interview with my friend Gary Clarke, who I met a
• 2:02
  year and a half ago when I first visited Mexico City, and who was at the time in
• 2:07
  the midst of an epic bike ride from Alaska to the southern tip of South America.
• 2:13
  This interview wasn't recorded until November of last year, though,
• 2:17
  at which point he was in Peru.
• 2:20
  And now he's back home in the UK, still thriving, of course.
• 2:25
  There's really no way to describe what Gary did as anything other than,
• 2:29
  like, amazing, incredible, etc. But Gary doesn't really see it that way.
• 2:35
  He just wanted to travel, and he decided that a bike was the best way to do it.
• 2:41
  He talks about that and many more things in the interview that follows.
• 2:46
  He's a super interesting guy who's had an interesting life both on
• 2:49
  a bike and not on a bike, and you're gonna enjoy this interview.
• 2:53
  If you've already heard it, you'll enjoy it more the second time.
• 2:57
  I insist.
• 2:58
  I insist.
• 3:01
  So my friends, here is my interview with Gary Clarke
• 3:06
  recorded on November 3rd, 2025.
• 3:11
  I, um, ordered breakfast the other day and, uh, all I heard was, uh,
• 3:15
  fritter, and up until then I'd had chicken fritters, so I thought,
• 3:18
  "This, yeah." And, uh, I ended up with quarter of a, um, fried guinea pig.
• 3:24
  And I was like, "Yeah." Right, but they eat a lot of guinea pig down there.
• 3:27
  They like guinea pig.
• 3:28
  Yeah, they love it.
• 3:28
  Did you try it?
• 3:29
  Love it?
• 3:29
  Well, I had to.
• 3:29
  It was, uh, basically what I ordered that breakfast.
• 3:32
  Yeah, there's not a lot of meat on it, surprisingly.
• 3:35
  Right, right, right.
• 3:35
  Was it good?
• 3:37
  Uh, no.
• 3:37
  So, uh, yeah, most of it ended up on the, um, side dish.
• 3:42
  This is episode 23 of onefjef.
• 3:45
  The number 23 has an uncanny way of showing up in
• 3:49
  science, nature, and mystery.
• 3:51
  Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes in their DNA, and the Earth is
• 3:55
  tilted at about 23 degrees on its axis, giving us seasons.
• 3:59
  It's said that blood takes roughly 23 seconds to circulate through the body,
• 4:03
  and the 23rd hour, 11:00 PM, marks the final hour before a new day begins.
• 4:08
  These patterns help give rise to the 23 enigma, the belief that
• 4:13
  this number appears suspiciously often and carries hidden meaning.
• 4:16
  Hello, my friends.
• 4:17
  How are you?
• 4:18
  Good?
• 4:19
  I hope that's a yes.
• 4:20
  If not, keep listening.
• 4:23
  This podcast is about to make you feel better.
• 4:26
  Why, you ask?
• 4:28
  Because today's guest is Gary Clarke.
• 4:30
  Gary Clarke is a British long-distance cyclist currently
• 4:34
  attempting to ride around the world.
• 4:36
  Right now, he's pedaling from Alaska all the way to the southern tip of
• 4:40
  Chile, continuing a journey that's already taken him across Australia,
• 4:44
  through Southeast Asia, India, Japan, and into the mountains of Nepal.
• 4:48
  Before turning to life on the road, Clarke worked on offshore oil rigs and platforms,
• 4:54
  a career he left behind to pursue a slower, more deliberate way of seeing
• 4:58
  the world from the saddle of a bicycle.
• 5:01
  Sometimes you meet a person and you just feel like you'll know them forever.
• 5:07
  And that was how I felt after I met Gary in Mexico City earlier this year.
• 5:12
  We were in a Spanish class together, which was incidentally the same class
• 5:17
  where I met the couple who I had dinner with in St. Louis on my road
• 5:21
  trip, episode nine, if you're curious.
• 5:24
  I didn't learn much in that class.
• 5:26
  I don't think Gary did either.
• 5:28
  But I met some great people, and I'll take great people over
• 5:33
  knowledge any day of the week.
• 5:36
  We had a fairly immediate connection, Gary and I. We share a similar
• 5:39
  sense of humor and perspective on life and the way the world works.
• 5:45
  And he's just a really likable guy.
• 5:47
  We did a bunch of sightseeing together, ate some amazing food together, and
• 5:51
  I actually ended up letting him crash for a couple nights in the extra
• 5:53
  bedroom in my Airbnb, so we could go on this amazing hot air balloon
• 5:58
  ride over the Teotihuacan pyramids.
• 6:02
  The interesting thing about Gary is that he barely talked about his bike trip.
• 6:07
  Most of the people in the Spanish class we were in didn't even know that he was doing
• 6:11
  this until I mentioned it, and then they were like, "Whoa, really?" And I think
• 6:15
  it's because Gary doesn't really think what he's doing is all that remarkable.
• 6:19
  It's just something he likes to do, so he's doing it.
• 6:24
  But it is remarkable, as I'm sure most of you would agree.
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  So I'm grateful that he was willing to take some time out from this epic trip
• 6:32
  of his to talk to me from the guest house he was staying at in Huaraz, Peru.
• 6:37
  And just FYI, due to Peruvian internet issues, uh, we had to have
• 6:42
  this conversation over WhatsApp, so the sound quality isn't perfect.
• 6:47
  But you'll get over it.
• 6:49
  You probably won't even notice it.
• 6:50
  Or maybe you wouldn't have noticed it had I not said anything, and
• 6:54
  now that I have said something, you'll be listening for it.
• 6:56
  So maybe just disregard.
• 7:00
  Thank you as always and forever to my new Patreon subscribers.
• 7:04
  Actually, there's just one since the last episode, but everything
• 7:08
  helps, so thank you to my new and continuing Patreon subscribers
• 7:12
  for your support of the podcast.
• 7:14
  I'll be putting some photos of Gary and I in Mexico City in the
• 7:17
  Patreon feed for your enjoyment.
• 7:20
  And there's another bonus episode for you on the way.
• 7:23
  If you yourself would like some visual aids to enhance your experience of
• 7:26
  this podcast or if you'd just like to help support the show, please do go to
• 7:31
  patreon.com/onefjef and sign up for as little as five dollars a month, and you
• 7:36
  too will get access to all the amazing bonus content I've put out there.
• 7:40
  And you'll get street cred.
• 7:42
  patreon.com/onefjef.
• 7:46
  And whether you're a Patreon subscriber or not, I appreciate you
• 7:49
  and your magical ears, which you are using right now to hear my voice.
• 7:55
  I don't know much about how ears work, but the little I do know leads me to
• 7:59
  believe that it's kind of miraculous, this ability to hear, and I'm glad you're
• 8:04
  using this miracle to listen to onefjef.
• 8:08
  So thank you for listening.
• 8:12
  Thank you for being here.
• 8:14
  Here's Gary Clarke talking to me from a guesthouse in Huaraz, Peru
• 8:25
  Yeah, I messed around on, um, ChatGPT.
• 8:27
  I had to get, um, something together for an insurance company.
• 8:30
  And then I, um, managed to go out, get some, um, camping gas and a few
• 8:35
  supplies ready for the off tomorrow.
• 8:38
  All right.
• 8:38
  Well, I think this will actually work.
• 8:41
  It's not ideal, but, uh, Peruvian internet is not known for
• 8:44
  its high-quality connections.
• 8:47
  Absolutely, mate.
• 8:49
  We'll, we'll, we'll work round it.
• 8:50
  Right.
• 8:51
  So Gary Clarke, it's so good to talk to you again.
• 8:53
  It's been, uh, what?
• 8:54
  About eight months or so since we met.
• 8:56
  It has been, Jef, yeah, yeah.
• 8:57
  Yeah.
• 8:58
  Very good memories.
• 8:59
  Yeah, indeed.
• 9:00
  Yeah.
• 9:00
  So Gary and I met, uh, I was in Mexico earlier this year, and we met, um, in a
• 9:06
  Spanish class actually, um, that wasn't a very good Spanish class as we've, Gary
• 9:11
  and I have joked about many, many times.
• 9:13
  I forget, I forget what the one joke was about.
• 9:15
  This is better than that thing.
• 9:17
  We just wanted to know how to order tacos, so.
• 9:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 9:21
  And instead- We needed phrases.
• 9:23
  Yeah, and we were getting this, that, and the… Yeah.
• 9:26
  Yeah, yeah.
• 9:26
  We were getting- But- … some more advanced things.
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  Um, so, so yeah, it wasn't the best class in terms of learning Spanish, but in terms
• 9:33
  of, like, making friends, it was great.
• 9:35
  Uh, and then me, me and Gary went on a magical air balloon ride in Mexico by
• 9:40
  the pyramids outside of Mexico City.
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  That was kind of an amazing day, actually, and we didn't die.
• 9:45
  We didn't die, and it was magnificent.
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  The views was incredible.
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  Uh, and I was amazed how many balloons they put up in the air.
• 9:52
  Yeah, there was one that crashed recently too, I saw.
• 9:55
  Um- Was there?
• 9:57
  Yeah, I think I sent you- Yeah … I thought I sent you the link, but yeah.
• 9:59
  Um, yeah, somebody died, so, uh, at least we didn't- Oh, okay … didn't, we didn't,
• 10:03
  we didn't get on that one, so that's good.
• 10:06
  That was good.
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  That is always a positive when you make it back.
• 10:09
  So where are you right now?
• 10:11
  Where do I find you right now?
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  I'm in Huaraz, which is the, um, basically the climbing and high peak
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  hiking sort of, um, epicenter for the high peaks around this area.
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  What, what big city is it near?
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  Is near anything I would know?
• 10:28
  Well, it's close… It's inland from Lima, really.
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  Lima being on the coast.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  And then Huaraz is, um, pretty much as soon as you see the, um,
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  snow-capped mountains, um, this is in the foothills of that.
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  So it's pretty.
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  It is stunning, yeah.
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  It's lovely.
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  Um, and there's a lot of, uh, international, uh, backpackers and,
• 10:51
  uh, people that have come probably specifically for the climbs.
• 10:55
  Right.
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  Right, right.
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  So, um, tell me, I mean, I mean, I know, but, like, tell my listeners,
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  uh, about what, what, what kind of trip you're on here, your biking trip here.
• 11:06
  Yeah, yeah.
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  I basically, uh, COVID, um, put a good couple of years gap in between
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  my five-year riding around the world.
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  Um, and, um, to look for a decent, uh, start to finish ride, I decided to, um,
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  pick the Alaska to Patagonia, um, Ushuaia in Ar- Argentina route, which really
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  is an unbroken cycle ride continuous through the, uh, North and South and
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  Central Americas up until you get to Panama and the Darien Gap, which you
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  either boat or you, in my case, fly over.
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  Oh, you took a plane.
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  I was wondering.
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  I did.
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  I was… Yeah, I was the wrong time of year, Jeff.
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  I basically, if I was a little bit sooner, um, the sun would've been out, and, um, it
• 11:54
  probably would be quite a pleasant ride.
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  Uh, for my time of year, it was just gonna be a choppy, uh, rather unpleasant-
• 12:02
  Mm … I hope this ends- Right, vomit
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  sort of ride.
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  Right, vomit inducing as they say.
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  Yeah.
• 12:06
  Exactly.
• 12:06
  Exactly.
• 12:07
  Um, I, uh… So you started in, where in Alaska did you start, and when was that?
• 12:13
  Yeah, I started up in, um, the northernmost, um, accessible part of, um,
• 12:18
  Alaska, which is Deadhorse, Prudhoe Bay.
• 12:21
  Okay.
• 12:22
  Uh, which is, yeah, is pretty much, um, only really accessible because,
• 12:27
  uh, of the oil that is up there.
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  Of course.
• 12:30
  Um, yeah.
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  And then you cycle down a supply line which pretty much shadows the
• 12:37
  pipeline running from Deadhorse down to Valdez, um, which is where it's,
• 12:43
  um, shipped out all the time to.
• 12:46
  Right, the giant pipeline and all that.
• 12:48
  And when- Yeah … when was, when was that?
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  When did you start?
• 12:51
  Yeah.
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  Uh, I started about as early as you can in the season, which was
• 12:57
  around about the 9th of June.
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  Uh, and I was about the third person out that year.
• 13:03
  The 9th of June of last year.
• 13:06
  Of last year, yes.
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  Of 2024.
• 13:07
  Yep.
• 13:07
  Okay.
• 13:08
  And then you're planning to get to where by the end of the trip?
• 13:12
  Where's the, where's the final destination?
• 13:14
  Final destination is the southern tip down by, uh, uh, Tierra del Fuego.
• 13:19
  Yeah, yeah.
• 13:20
  Tierra del Fuego.
• 13:20
  That's it.
• 13:21
  Yeah.
• 13:22
  Uh, and Ushuaia is the, um, the, the, the name of the town.
• 13:26
  They also use it, um, uh, for a destination or a leaving point for
• 13:32
  the, um, Antarctic, um, cruises.
• 13:34
  Right.
• 13:35
  Right, right.
• 13:35
  And when do you-- How far from there are you?
• 13:38
  When do you think you'll get there?
• 13:39
  Well, I did have a quick look.
• 13:41
  I'm, uh, I'm roughly about 7,500 kilometers- Jesus … which, um,
• 13:47
  yeah, even with the Andes in, in between, it's gonna be a good, um,
• 13:52
  maybe January/February, um- Right, but it'll be summer though, so.
• 13:58
  It will.
• 13:58
  Hopefully, it starts getting warmer.
• 14:00
  The only thing is the, um, winds, which- Right … hope- I'm kinda hoping are in
• 14:06
  my favor going, uh, from north to south.
• 14:10
  I mean, I had a-- I dated a woman who lived in Chile for 13
• 14:13
  years in, um, what city was it?
• 14:16
  It was, uh, Punta Arenas, which is right down there in Patagonia.
• 14:19
  And her big-- She's triggered by the wind now because it's so w-
• 14:22
  it's like a constant gale-force wind down there according to her.
• 14:25
  So just preparing you, Gary, because it may be- Yeah
• 14:28
  it may be windy.
• 14:30
  Much appreciated, Jeff.
• 14:31
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  No, um, I have ridden the reverse, um, from Ushuaia to, um,
• 14:37
  funnily enough, this town, Araz.
• 14:39
  Uh, and then I, um, returned and got back to Lima and then
• 14:42
  flew into, uh, New Zealand.
• 14:45
  Uh, that was the first part of my ride.
• 14:47
  Oh, so you've already r- kind of done this part of the trip, but just backwards?
• 14:52
  I have.
• 14:52
  This is roughly as far north as I got, um, 10 years ago.
• 14:56
  So this is part of a, what?
• 14:58
  A bigger, a grander, a grander scheme of g- biking across the entire world?
• 15:03
  Yeah.
• 15:04
  I started really, I was gonna end in Australia, um, 'cause I did go
• 15:09
  through the points system, uh, to enter and emigrate to Australia.
• 15:14
  Um, however, during the ride, I, um, realized that it was
• 15:19
  such a fantastic lifestyle.
• 15:21
  Um, and I got less and less, uh, interested in going back to my former job,
• 15:30
  which I, you know, prior to the cycling I was, um, it was quite important to me.
• 15:35
  Right.
• 15:35
  Right, right.
• 15:36
  So when did you decide to do this, um, incredible biking
• 15:41
  around the world to a degree?
• 15:43
  It was a good 10 years ago.
• 15:45
  Um, and I set off with the intention of it being a, um,
• 15:48
  six-month, um, cycle ride basically.
• 15:52
  I'd saved South America as a big trip.
• 15:56
  Uh, so I looked at, um… I was working off shore at the time, and,
• 16:01
  um, I was looking at it and I thought, well, there's no train routes.
• 16:04
  It'll all be by buses, which I didn't really fancy.
• 16:08
  And then I thought about a motorbike, uh, but I've got no real history of
• 16:12
  riding a motorbike or maintaining one, and I thought that sounds
• 16:15
  like a disaster waiting to happen.
• 16:17
  Right.
• 16:18
  So, uh, I basically trialed a fold-up bike in Burma for three weeks, having
• 16:24
  flown into Bangkok and bought one.
• 16:27
  Uh, and, uh, yeah, I was like, this is doable.
• 16:30
  So then, um, it was just gonna be a six-month cycle
• 16:33
  trip, uh, back to Australia.
• 16:36
  Uh, but by the time I got there I thought I'd just as well cycle round Australia
• 16:40
  whilst I've got the, uh, the visa.
• 16:43
  Right.
• 16:43
  Uh, and then during the, those two years, uh, I was like, yeah, Japan might be nice.
• 16:50
  Uh, and then I… Southeast Asia, uh, Northern India, uh, Kazakhstan,
• 16:57
  the rest of the St- You've done all these, you've biked across all
• 16:58
  these countries, all these places?
• 17:00
  Yeah.
• 17:01
  Wow.
• 17:01
  Yeah, yeah.
• 17:03
  Did you train before you started this whole adventure
• 17:06
  or did you just start doing it?
• 17:08
  Yeah.
• 17:08
  I, um, I wasn't much of a cyclist.
• 17:11
  Um, uh, and probably even when I'm not cycling around the world, I…
• 17:18
  Cycling's not something I, um, think, "Oh, I'll get on the bike." Huh.
• 17:22
  Um, so I just find it the best way to travel.
• 17:27
  The right pace, you see things, you interact with people.
• 17:31
  Um, you're not trying to just get from A to B and then do stuff when you get to B.
• 17:35
  Right.
• 17:36
  Your journey starts when you set off in the morning.
• 17:38
  Uh, you get some wonderful camping spots.
• 17:42
  Um, yeah, there's a lot of positives.
• 17:43
  It does keep you fit.
• 17:44
  Obviously it's good for your mental and, um, physical health.
• 17:47
  Sure.
• 17:47
  Sure.
• 17:48
  So yeah, I, um, hadn't done a great deal, but I was trying to keep myself a
• 17:54
  little bit active on the treadmill and a few things whilst working offshore.
• 17:59
  Otherwise you can, um, you can get a bit drawn into 16, 17-hour days.
• 18:05
  Yeah.
• 18:05
  Uh, and a lot of that can be in and around a computer.
• 18:09
  Sure.
• 18:09
  Yeah.
• 18:10
  So- Tell me about it.
• 18:11
  Um- Yeah.
• 18:12
  Uh, so, so you just have been biking and then wherever you feel like
• 18:16
  kinda stopping, if you're like in the middle of nowhere, you just
• 18:19
  pitch a tent and, and set up and, and sleep there, wherever it is?
• 18:25
  Well, some, some countries favor or lean to it a little bit better than others.
• 18:29
  Some, uh, the Colombia and Ecuador, for example, of j- a,
• 18:34
  a lot of it was, um, fenced in.
• 18:36
  Right.
• 18:37
  So if you get to that sort of s- nor- um, the North Island
• 18:41
  in New Zealand was the same.
• 18:43
  Um, I don't wanna jump over a fence to put a tent up.
• 18:46
  Right.
• 18:46
  Right, right.
• 18:46
  So you try to get, you know, you try to get to either, um, a designated, um,
• 18:52
  camp spot or, um, y- y- you look for accommodation, which was affordable,
• 18:59
  obviously, for Ecuador and Colombia.
• 19:02
  Right.
• 19:03
  Right.
• 19:03
  I mean, it's a very inexpensive way to travel, I'd imagine.
• 19:05
  You know, you're, you're not paying for any of the buses, uh- Yeah
• 19:09
  trains or whichever else.
• 19:10
  Right.
• 19:10
  Uh, there's no fuel involved.
• 19:12
  Um, you know, y- you eat cheaper probably than you would even if you
• 19:17
  were, um, you know, backpacking.
• 19:19
  For sure.
• 19:19
  So, um- For sure … you know, the h- the costs are definitely kept down.
• 19:24
  I mean, are you tired?
• 19:29
  Uh, funnily enough, for the first time, uh, in the, um, years that I've been
• 19:34
  riding, my legs played up when I got to, to the south of, uh, Colombia.
• 19:39
  Ah.
• 19:40
  Uh, and that was a f- yeah.
• 19:41
  Yeah, that was a f- that was a good eye-opener.
• 19:42
  It made me focus on how much I was doing per day.
• 19:46
  Right.
• 19:46
  Um, the hills are no joke.
• 19:49
  Um, obviously when you're a little bit younger, you don't
• 19:53
  have to worry about these things.
• 19:54
  Sure, sure.
• 19:54
  But, uh, nutrition, um, fluids, uh, so yeah, I've, uh- How old are you now, Gary?
• 20:02
  Uh, 55 now.
• 20:03
  Unbelievable.
• 20:04
  Is this the longest trip you've done?
• 20:06
  The previous one started off that it was gonna be six months and ended
• 20:10
  up five years, so- Oh, right … um- But that was with some breaks.
• 20:13
  You were, you were not biking the entire time.
• 20:15
  Absolutely.
• 20:16
  Right.
• 20:16
  No, no.
• 20:17
  The, the… In fairness, you've, you've gotta, you've gotta pace it,
• 20:21
  otherwise, um, you do mentally, uh, find yourself a little bit under it.
• 20:26
  It's, um, you've gotta get the balance, otherwise it can become a bit of a,
• 20:30
  um- Like a slog … bit of a task.
• 20:32
  Right.
• 20:32
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  Like a slog.
• 20:33
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  Yeah.
• 20:34
  Uh, yeah, you stopped in Mexico City for two or three weeks
• 20:37
  or something, didn't you?
• 20:37
  I mean, that you were there for a while.
• 20:38
  Yeah.
• 20:39
  Yeah, yeah.
• 20:39
  Yeah.
• 20:40
  The other one with that, Jef, is basically I was … Once I'd got out
• 20:43
  of North America, I felt as if I was trying to chase the, um, seasons.
• 20:47
  I couldn't start in Alaska- Right … too soon.
• 20:50
  I had to get over, um, Colorado before it started to snow.
• 20:53
  Yeah.
• 20:54
  You know, and then basically by the time I got to the, the Baja, I knew I could
• 20:58
  slow down in Central America- Right
• 21:00
  to try to time it to get to Patagonia in their summertime.
• 21:06
  Yeah.
• 21:06
  And how many miles do you think that'll be the whole tr- this whole trip?
• 21:10
  Do you have any idea?
• 21:11
  Yeah.
• 21:12
  Yeah.
• 21:12
  I don't, no.
• 21:13
  I d- I don't really plan much, Jef, really.
• 21:15
  I just, um, it … I quite like the spontaneity of, um, you
• 21:19
  know, turning up to places that you don't have a clue about.
• 21:22
  Sure.
• 21:22
  Um, I have a little bit of an idea of the route.
• 21:25
  You generally know, you know, roughly where you're heading, but that can
• 21:29
  change, you know, within a couple of days.
• 21:32
  So yeah, I, I'm, I'm basically gearing up now for a route that's
• 21:36
  called the, um, Peruvian, I think they call it Great Divide.
• 21:40
  Um- Uh-huh … which is something that, uh, some intrepid, um, people
• 21:45
  beforehand, in fact, that they were called the Pikes on Bikes.
• 21:49
  Um, it's now been, uh, designated by bikepacking.com, and, um, it's one
• 21:55
  of their, uh, main South American routes, so it- Oh, well, that's good.
• 21:59
  At least it'll be made for bikes.
• 22:01
  I think that's probably … I would, I would get sketched out because I don't
• 22:04
  like sharing the, the road with cars.
• 22:06
  It freaks me out.
• 22:07
  I feel like I'm gonna get hit by a car.
• 22:09
  That can happen, Jef.
• 22:10
  Yeah.
• 22:10
  Yeah.
• 22:10
  Um, yeah.
• 22:12
  You do, though, you do hear of, um, cyclists out and about that,
• 22:16
  um, unfortunately do get hit, and unfortunately motorists, um- Don't
• 22:23
  consider that you've been riding for seven or eight hours that day
• 22:26
  and your legs ain't very good.
• 22:28
  Right.
• 22:29
  Right.
• 22:29
  Um, they presume you're just riding around a corner.
• 22:31
  Right.
• 22:32
  And what kind of, uh… What are you, what are you taking with you?
• 22:34
  What do you have on your bike?
• 22:36
  Yeah, one of the first things when you first set off is you generally over-pack.
• 22:40
  You take a lot of nice to haves.
• 22:42
  There were, yeah, extra couple of tops and a few other things.
• 22:44
  So once you've been out a while, you streamline that down, 'cause
• 22:48
  as soon as you hit the hills- Right
• 22:50
  every little T-shirt- Right … you can feel.
• 22:52
  I carry, uh, and again, you sort of do your homework, uh, to select
• 22:58
  decent quality stuff that packs down small volume and is light.
• 23:02
  Um, so yeah, camping gear, sleeping stuff, cooking stuff, warm gear, uh,
• 23:09
  warm clothes, w- uh, wet clothes.
• 23:12
  Well, s- sorry, wet weather clothes.
• 23:15
  And, uh, obviously something for maintenance on the bike.
• 23:20
  Sure, sure.
• 23:21
  How many flats have you gotten on this trip?
• 23:23
  Like, a load, actually.
• 23:24
  I was doing fine in North America.
• 23:26
  I had a couple of, um, random ones- Right … uh, that you th- you think,
• 23:29
  "Oh, that's a bit unfortunate." Yeah.
• 23:31
  But then when I got to the Baja, I, uh, I was starting to pick up
• 23:35
  quite a few, um, thorns, basically.
• 23:36
  I think they're goatheads, they call them.
• 23:40
  Even, uh, Arizona, maybe.
• 23:42
  Uh- Right … and once it starts, it seems as if you just, um,
• 23:46
  end up on a, a bad run of them.
• 23:48
  So- Uh-huh … you're still, you know, you're constantly
• 23:50
  taking that back wheel off.
• 23:52
  But, um, since Mexico, and in fact just after, I think I'd just had it
• 23:57
  done, Jef, when I came around to yours before we did the, um, balloon trip.
• 24:00
  I went, um, tubeless.
• 24:02
  And, um- Oh, right.
• 24:03
  Right, right, right … the w- that had been going fantastic
• 24:07
  up until, where did I get to?
• 24:09
  Somewhere in Colombia.
• 24:10
  Plenty of glass on the road.
• 24:12
  Uh, just happened to hit a, uh… Well, the tire was getting
• 24:15
  a little bit thin as well.
• 24:17
  Um, and then it was just too big to plug.
• 24:20
  So, uh, we put a tube in it, and, uh, it was a new tire, so.
• 24:25
  Wow.
• 24:25
  And, uh, touch wood, been good ever since.
• 24:27
  So have there been… Like, what have been some of the highlights
• 24:30
  of this, this bike trip itself?
• 24:33
  Have there been anything, any, any, like… What's, what's stood out in
• 24:36
  terms of even e- either experiences or places or whatever it is?
• 24:41
  Any, uh, any takeaways?
• 24:42
  Yeah.
• 24:43
  Alaska scenery is stunning.
• 24:45
  Um, you get a, a north, uh, what was it?
• 24:48
  British Columbia.
• 24:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:49
  A lot of river riding.
• 24:51
  You're, you know, the road is alongside a river.
• 24:53
  That's always beautiful.
• 24:54
  Right.
• 24:54
  The ride down from North America, which is, uh, the one they race, just so varied.
• 25:02
  I w- I don't know what I anticipated for that ride, but
• 25:05
  it just changed within the day.
• 25:07
  So, you know, it's the sort of thing when you're riding, you're looking for.
• 25:11
  You don't want- Unfortunately, like a bit of Northern Australia or then
• 25:17
  there's a stretch in Argentina heading south, which is, um, the Pampas.
• 25:21
  It's just the same hour after hour, day after day.
• 25:25
  Right, right.
• 25:26
  So, um, you know, if y- if you get the variety, uh, Baja was fantastic in Mexico.
• 25:31
  Mexico itself was, um, a great surprise.
• 25:33
  I really didn't know what to expect there.
• 25:36
  Central America have been, uh, El Salvador had fantastic friendly people.
• 25:41
  Um, there were wonderful beaches obviously through there.
• 25:44
  Colombia was a treat.
• 25:46
  Ecuador, um, again, lovely people.
• 25:50
  Peru is just stunning.
• 25:53
  I came up through a gorge the other day.
• 25:55
  Wow.
• 25:55
  Uh, hadn't expected it.
• 25:58
  I came down the gorge as the opposite side on a different river, and I
• 26:01
  thought that was absolutely amazing.
• 26:03
  And then I think the reason that it was so slow coming back up the gorge was r-
• 26:08
  stopping so often to take the, um, photos.
• 26:10
  Right, right, right.
• 26:12
  Amazing.
• 26:13
  Have there been any, um…
• 26:15
  I mean, have people been generally nice as, that you've met?
• 26:18
  Have there, has there been any animosity or is it generally mostly like just super
• 26:22
  friendly curious people that you've met?
• 26:24
  I think that's one of the absolute advantages, Jef, with
• 26:27
  the, um, riding with a bicycle.
• 26:29
  For some reason you're just more approachable.
• 26:31
  I think you're less of a threat- Right … or whatever.
• 26:33
  Right.
• 26:33
  I don't, you know, I th- I don't know what it is.
• 26:36
  Um, people are more curious.
• 26:38
  You're also in more remote places.
• 26:40
  I generally find if you're out in the countryside of pretty much
• 26:44
  any country, people are wonderful.
• 26:46
  That makes sense.
• 26:47
  It's the city, you know.
• 26:48
  Yeah.
• 26:48
  It's the cities where people are condensed.
• 26:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:51
  There's, uh, a lot more, uh, alcohol and drug, um, in the cities, more traffic.
• 26:58
  Um, people are stressed.
• 27:00
  Yeah.
• 27:01
  Yeah.
• 27:01
  And people are looking for variety out in the country and, you know, some strange
• 27:06
  British guy comes biking down the street.
• 27:09
  Yeah.
• 27:10
  Especially some of it's like, "What on earth are you doing here?"
• 27:13
  Right.
• 27:13
  Right, right.
• 27:13
  Um, the other bit is, is being English, the ability to, um, or push yourself
• 27:20
  to learn a foreign language is, um, unfortunately, uh, a little lacking.
• 27:25
  When you meet other Europeans or whomever, uh, that speak two or three languages,
• 27:30
  it does, um, make you feel a bit humble.
• 27:32
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  How's the Spanish going?
• 27:33
  Is it coming along well, Gary?
• 27:37
  That was timely.
• 27:39
  Um, I'm comfortable enough, um, that I can sort of get by.
• 27:44
  People understand, um, that, uh, you know, you only speak poco español.
• 27:50
  Si.
• 27:50
  Si.
• 27:50
  Si.
• 27:50
  The, um, uh… But, uh, it was, uh, evident when I, um, uh, ordered the,
• 27:57
  um, breakfast the other day, and, uh, all I heard was, uh, fritter.
• 28:01
  And up until then I'd had chicken fritters, so I thought
• 28:04
  this, yeah, for breakfast.
• 28:05
  And, uh, I ended up with quarter of a, um, fried guinea pig.
• 28:10
  And I was like, "Yeah." Right.
• 28:12
  But they eat a lot of guinea pig down there.
• 28:14
  They love guinea pig.
• 28:14
  Yeah, they love it.
• 28:14
  Love it.
• 28:14
  Did you try it?
• 28:15
  How was it?
• 28:15
  Yeah.
• 28:16
  Well, I had to.
• 28:16
  It was, uh, basically what I ordered that breakfast.
• 28:19
  Yeah, there's not a lot of meat on it- Right
• 28:21
  surprisingly.
• 28:22
  Right, right.
• 28:22
  I think, um, probably they're much the same as trying to eat a parrot.
• 28:26
  Um, but, uh, they, uh, yeah, it's funny.
• 28:28
  I mean, it's ironic they call it a, it's ironic they call it a pig because
• 28:31
  there's really not a lot of meat on there.
• 28:33
  There's not a lot.
• 28:34
  I couldn't find much at all.
• 28:36
  I ended up eating the skin, I think it was.
• 28:38
  But, um, yeah, they sell… They obviously eat guinea pig, but they sell rabbits.
• 28:42
  So, um, yeah- Huh … I find it quite unusual.
• 28:46
  Was, was it good?
• 28:47
  Uh, no.
• 28:47
  Fortunately, it came with swede.
• 28:49
  So, uh, yeah.
• 28:51
  All right.
• 28:51
  Most of it ended up on the, um, side dish.
• 28:53
  Right.
• 28:53
  So no guinea pig.
• 28:55
  I mean, for breakfast that seems a little bit much.
• 28:57
  I mean- Yeah.
• 28:58
  I didn't- … for any, any meal really, but breakfast it's a lot.
• 29:01
  Yeah.
• 29:01
  Well, that's what I was thinking.
• 29:03
  I didn't think I could go too wrong with a breakfast, but then all of a
• 29:05
  sudden I'm like, yeah, you need to, um, you need to start thinking about it.
• 29:09
  But, um, yeah.
• 29:11
  There's, you know, there's been other soups and things that you get, um, uh,
• 29:15
  kidneys or, um, some liver in there.
• 29:17
  Uh, you're basically gonna- Have to consume some offal
• 29:22
  somewhere along the line Yeah.
• 29:23
  And a lot of time it's not bad.
• 29:25
  Like, honestly, like they've been cooking it like that for so long that they're
• 29:28
  able to make it into some… Like when I lived in Korea, I had a lot of stuff
• 29:31
  I didn't even know what I was eating.
• 29:33
  And, uh, but it was good.
• 29:34
  I made… Sometimes I just don't even, didn't even wanna know what I
• 29:36
  was eating because, like, it's better not to know that you're eating, you
• 29:39
  know, whatever brains or whatever.
• 29:41
  Um- But it was good.
• 29:43
  But that was exactly the process, innit?
• 29:44
  That's it.
• 29:45
  That's it.
• 29:45
  Right.
• 29:45
  It is.
• 29:45
  It's, uh… And you see others that are eating it, you think,
• 29:48
  um, basically sometimes it's like, well, don't even chew it.
• 29:52
  You basically it's, um, it's gonna be what your main meal is today.
• 29:56
  You're gonna, um, you get it down.
• 29:57
  Right.
• 29:58
  Right, right.
• 29:59
  When in Rome, as it, as it were.
• 30:01
  Have there been any profound, um, issues that you've had, like aside
• 30:05
  from the, the flat tires and so forth and, and I don't know, have
• 30:08
  there been any like, like issues of getting caught camping somewhere?
• 30:12
  Whatever it is, you know, um, on this trip or any other trip really.
• 30:16
  No.
• 30:17
  No.
• 30:17
  I think, um, I'd anticipated a few more border issues.
• 30:20
  Right.
• 30:21
  Um, y- you know, which is in the back of your mind, but that's probably
• 30:25
  'cause you've l- read too much, um, news or you've listened to too many-
• 30:28
  Sure … people's opinions that haven't actually been through there.
• 30:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:32
  The only time that I've ever really had an issue with camping, uh, was when I was
• 30:37
  walking around the south coast of England.
• 30:39
  There was one guy walking a dog that moved me on.
• 30:42
  Oh.
• 30:42
  Uh, other than that, anywhere else in the world has been fine.
• 30:45
  It's interesting though, once you get… Like my, I was struck by how much I liked
• 30:49
  Mexico City particularly, and Mexico in general, and it was surprising as
• 30:54
  an American going there because like the media, and I'm sure in the UK too,
• 30:57
  the media just tells you this is a terrifying place, uh, full of d- drug
• 31:02
  cartels and all these kind of things.
• 31:03
  Yeah.
• 31:03
  And certainly there are those things there.
• 31:05
  But I found it to be one of the friendliest countries
• 31:08
  that I've been to in my life.
• 31:10
  And, uh, the people were just… I never felt any real meanness by anybody.
• 31:15
  And when I tell people this, when I, when I got back and I tell people this, they're
• 31:19
  still skeptical 'cause the media- Yeah
• 31:22
  all they tell you is how terrible, you know, uh, border problems,
• 31:25
  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 31:27
  It's like they wanna divide us, Gary.
• 31:28
  It's like they want us to hate each other.
• 31:30
  It's weird.
• 31:30
  Or fear each other or something, you know?
• 31:33
  Oh, totally.
• 31:33
  Totally.
• 31:34
  There's a, there's definitely an agenda with the, uh, with the news.
• 31:37
  Yeah.
• 31:37
  Um- Yeah.
• 31:38
  But like you say, I was coming in and, and definitely borders and/or
• 31:43
  for some reason train stations, you know, they can be a bit sketchy.
• 31:47
  But, um- Yes, for sure I, uh, did get warned a couple of times,
• 31:52
  um, as I was leaving, uh, America to be careful certainly in
• 31:57
  around, uh, some parts of Mexico.
• 31:59
  Sure thing.
• 32:00
  Got it.
• 32:00
  Yeah.
• 32:00
  Um, y- and, um, you know, it does, um, raise the concern.
• 32:05
  Uh, and then you're just absolutely mystified where it comes from
• 32:08
  when you actually get there.
• 32:09
  You think these people are going out their way to look after me.
• 32:12
  Right.
• 32:13
  It's almost- Sure … it reminds me of, like, the drug war when I was a kid.
• 32:16
  They would just say, "Say no to drugs."
• 32:17
  Ronald Reagan would say, "Say no to drugs." Like, all the drugs.
• 32:21
  So as soon as you ended up, you grew up under that, and you smoke a
• 32:24
  little weed, and you're like, "Oh, I'm fine." Then you're like, "Oh,
• 32:26
  maybe this is all bullshit." Yeah.
• 32:29
  Yeah.
• 32:29
  It's a great metaphor.
• 32:29
  And before you know it.
• 32:30
  Yeah.
• 32:31
  Yeah.
• 32:31
  Yeah.
• 32:31
  Then you're on, then you're, then you're shooting up heroin before
• 32:34
  you know it, and then, yeah.
• 32:35
  That's it.
• 32:35
  That's it.
• 32:35
  Um, which is all we did in Mexico City, me and you.
• 32:39
  Boy, those were the times, weren't they, Gary?
• 32:41
  All that, all that amazing Mexican heroin we shoveled- Yeah.
• 32:45
  Well, the thing is that you- … down my … yeah.
• 32:47
  I'm not sure we actually were on a balloon.
• 32:49
  It just felt like it.
• 32:50
  And yeah, it was, um, best, fair.
• 32:54
  You know, Mexico was a fantastic place with lovely people.
• 32:58
  I, I would go back there and, and ride a different route, see more of it.
• 33:02
  It was fantastic.
• 33:02
  Yeah.
• 33:03
  I wanna see more.
• 33:03
  I'm go- actually going back to Mexico City in, at the beginning
• 33:06
  of December, um, for a week.
• 33:08
  Oh, nice one.
• 33:09
  I'm excited about that one.
• 33:10
  Yep.
• 33:10
  Yeah.
• 33:10
  Yeah.
• 33:11
  So you said the initial reason for the trip was not really to bike around
• 33:15
  the world, it was just to, to travel around the world, was the initial idea,
• 33:19
  and you just kind of fell into biking as a, as a result of experimentation?
• 33:24
  Yeah, absolutely, Jef.
• 33:26
  It was ba- I'd done a lot of, um… I travel with my work and I also
• 33:29
  done a lot of, um, traveling anyway.
• 33:32
  Um, I'd done the backpacking thing.
• 33:35
  Uh, I'd done various other, you know, ways of getting around.
• 33:39
  Uh, and I was not, I was a, I was a bit older than I wanted to be if I was
• 33:45
  gonna be in a bus doing the backpacking.
• 33:47
  Sure.
• 33:47
  So, um- Yeah, yeah, yeah … you know, I thought, "Oh, it's the motorbike option."
• 33:52
  Um, and then I really did think, uh, it's a broken leg at best, uh- Right
• 33:56
  for me on a motorbike.
• 33:57
  Right.
• 33:58
  So, uh, I looked at, um, my ne- next, um, off period when I was, uh, f- three
• 34:05
  weeks on, three weeks off, I think it was.
• 34:07
  S- uh, well, I mean, four weeks on, four weeks off.
• 34:09
  Right.
• 34:10
  And, um, I looked at doing something with Burma, um, Myanmar, that had pretty
• 34:16
  much just sort of opened up since, um, before it was, uh, quite restricted- Yeah
• 34:22
  and, uh, still under military control, I think.
• 34:24
  Yeah.
• 34:24
  And I'd sort of mentally avoided it rather than, you know, dipping my toe in it.
• 34:29
  But this, it, it opened up and, uh, I looked at, um, a mountain
• 34:33
  bike, uh, tour for two weeks, and it was just s- so expensive.
• 34:39
  I just thought, "This is, this is crazy." They had the route, the itinerary on
• 34:42
  the website, and, uh, I just looked at, um, how to get a bike to, um, Bangkok.
• 34:49
  And then it was like, "Why not just buy a fold-up one in Bangkok, fly it into,
• 34:54
  um, Yangon, and, uh, ride to Mandalay?" And, uh, yeah, it was way… You know,
• 35:00
  obviously it looks like a clown bike.
• 35:01
  Sure, sure.
• 35:02
  You've got, um, 18-inch wheels.
• 35:03
  Yeah.
• 35:04
  Kids loved it.
• 35:04
  I'd actually like to see you riding that, actually.
• 35:06
  I think it'd be funny.
• 35:07
  Yeah.
• 35:08
  But it's a shame.
• 35:08
  But so did the kids.
• 35:09
  Yeah.
• 35:09
  So did the kids.
• 35:10
  I spent the first, um, 12 hours riding it one-handed just waving
• 35:13
  at these kids running alongside.
• 35:15
  You should've gotten a horn.
• 35:16
  One, like, one of those, "Ah, ah, ah." Yeah.
• 35:19
  I should have had the red nose and the shoes.
• 35:20
  Right, red nose and everything, right.
• 35:22
  Uh, throwing out candies.
• 35:25
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:25
  But, um- Yeah, yeah.
• 35:26
  Next time.
• 35:28
  Yeah.
• 35:28
  I w- yeah.
• 35:29
  Square wheels maybe.
• 35:30
  Yeah.
• 35:31
  Uh-huh.
• 35:31
  Uh-huh.
• 35:31
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:31
  Then, um- Yeah, yeah.
• 35:32
  I'll videotape that.
• 35:33
  I'll come out with a video camera for that one, Gary.
• 35:35
  I promise.
• 35:35
  Yeah.
• 35:35
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:36
  We'll do a couple of weeks for that.
• 35:37
  Yep.
• 35:37
  So, uh, yeah.
• 35:38
  And then was convinced.
• 35:39
  And then basically, yeah, did a little bit of research on getting
• 35:42
  a bike, uh, some of the gear.
• 35:44
  And, um, yeah, basically my contract came to an end.
• 35:48
  Uh, I chose not to extend it and then basically flew into Ushuaia
• 35:53
  and rode up to Peru in the opposite direction from what I'm doing now.
• 35:58
  And you were like, "Yeah, this works.
• 35:59
  I like this." Yeah. It was, it was definitely doable. And then, like I say,
• 36:04
  within that first six months, I'm like, "Yeah, I don't need to s- " And basically
• 36:09
  I stopped, um, looking for new contracts.
• 36:12
  It just basically, I was still getting offers coming in, and it just sort of
• 36:15
  like, I just dwindled away from it.
• 36:17
  And then all of a sudden it was like, "Actually, do I really
• 36:20
  need to, um- Go back And you were working on the oil rigs, right?
• 36:25
  I was.
• 36:25
  I loved it I loved it.
• 36:27
  I liked the, um, fly in, fly out.
• 36:29
  I liked the remoteness.
• 36:31
  There was an element of, you know, everyone on there, there's no
• 36:34
  dead wood- Right … basically.
• 36:36
  Um, every, every bed is taken by a person that is productive.
• 36:40
  Right.
• 36:40
  Um, you obviously got the politics involved here and
• 36:43
  there, but I was contracting and brought in to fix problems.
• 36:46
  So as long as I was diplomatic, things worked for me.
• 36:50
  And how did that work, where you were… You said, what?
• 36:52
  Four months on, four months off or something like that?
• 36:54
  Or how did that work?
• 36:55
  How long- No.
• 36:56
  No, four weeks- Four weeks … or Jef.
• 36:57
  Four weeks on.
• 36:57
  Four weeks, right.
• 36:58
  They, they, they extend it basically so that there's m- so
• 37:01
  that there's less cost for the flights and there's less logistics.
• 37:05
  If you're domestic, i.e., if you were working in Ameri- America
• 37:08
  and Gulf of Mexico or the, um, British, um, North Sea, uh, you're,
• 37:13
  you're two weeks on, two weeks off.
• 37:15
  Um- Right … in N- in Norway they push it the other way.
• 37:18
  You've got two weeks on, three weeks off, but, um, Norway's a
• 37:21
  bit of an exceptional country.
• 37:23
  Um, yeah, and I loved it.
• 37:25
  It was, um… I liked production.
• 37:27
  It felt as if you were getting stuff done.
• 37:29
  You could see the results.
• 37:31
  Yeah, and, um, you know, I was on a good run.
• 37:34
  So they would, like, have to helicopter you out probably, I would imagine.
• 37:37
  Yeah, I was flying in from Southeast Asia- Right … connecting in Dubai.
• 37:42
  Um, and then going over to…
• 37:45
  My last role was in Brazil, which was excellent 'cause the Brazilians were
• 37:49
  really friendly, really good, um, setup.
• 37:51
  So it's mostly Brazilians on the, on the oil rig.
• 37:53
  Depending on which sector.
• 37:55
  You know, in the Nor- in Nigeria it was Nigerians mostly.
• 37:58
  Sure.
• 37:59
  Um, with… You get a f- sprinkling of expats.
• 38:02
  For the Brazilian one it was a Chevron, um, uh, platform.
• 38:07
  Huh.
• 38:07
  So you also had, um, uh, Americans in the more senior roles basically to,
• 38:14
  uh, ensure that Chevron procedures and safety standards- Right.
• 38:18
  Right … are, um, maintained.
• 38:20
  Right.
• 38:21
  Yeah.
• 38:21
  And then you would get to the closest point, which, um,
• 38:24
  for me was, um, uh, Victoria.
• 38:27
  Uh, and then you would, you would do the last hour and a half in the helicopter.
• 38:32
  Wow.
• 38:32
  Yeah.
• 38:33
  And when, when, when you say about the helicopter there, Jef, sorry about that.
• 38:36
  No.
• 38:36
  When you say about the helicopter- Yeah, yeah, yeah … the, um, the, um…
• 38:40
  There was, um… Where was he from?
• 38:42
  He was, he was American, but I can't remember exactly where he was from,
• 38:45
  and I did, um… He was retiring.
• 38:47
  He'd, uh, served his whole time I think with Chevron, so it was
• 38:50
  quite the, uh, retirement package.
• 38:52
  But, um, uh, and I, I, you know, spoke to him and wished him all the best.
• 38:57
  And just all I said was, "You, you know, you're gonna be going traveling.
• 39:00
  Is there any of the… You know, Japan or what, you know, whatever do
• 39:02
  you want to see or that?" He said, "Gary," basically he said, "I've run
• 39:06
  my statistics and my percentages."
• 39:09
  He said, "For all the hours I have flown, I should have crashed something." You
• 39:13
  know, I should have ditched a helicopter.
• 39:15
  Right.
• 39:15
  I should have done something.
• 39:16
  So he was going back to his farm, and that was, that was his retirement.
• 39:20
  Don't push your luck, yeah.
• 39:21
  Um, yeah.
• 39:22
  I had, um, maintenance guys I've… in, um, Nigeria that had- been kidnapped, um,
• 39:28
  other people that have been in helicopters that have basically Ditched- Wow
• 39:33
  as they call it.
• 39:34
  Wow.
• 39:34
  Yeah.
• 39:35
  And one of the things when you do the offshore survival course is,
• 39:38
  um, it, uh, basically highlights, um, how real it's gonna get.
• 39:44
  It's not gonna go down on a nice sunny day.
• 39:46
  It's gonna go down in the dark on a really bad weather.
• 39:49
  Uh, the sea's gonna be ferocious.
• 39:52
  You'll be lucky to get out with the helicopter because there'd be so
• 39:55
  much panic or, um, a non-s- couple of non-swimmers in there or something.
• 39:58
  Uh, then you've gotta get to a life raft that's obviously gonna try
• 40:01
  to blow away from the helicopter.
• 40:03
  You've gotta cut yourself, um, free from the helicopter and not get
• 40:06
  dragged down, and then you've only got X amount of, uh, time and exposure.
• 40:11
  S- for the North Sea, if you don't zip up your, um, exposure suit,
• 40:15
  which is almost like a dry suit- Yeah
• 40:17
  uh, you got about three minutes, and if it's zipped up,
• 40:20
  I think you got three hours.
• 40:22
  Yeah, no, no thanks.
• 40:23
  I'm good.
• 40:23
  I'm good.
• 40:24
  I saw Titanic, and I was … I'm all right with it.
• 40:26
  I don't need to do that.
• 40:27
  Um, and how many people were on these rigs at the same time?
• 40:30
  How many … Well, how big were the crew for these things?
• 40:32
  Depends on the degree of, um, production or processing that
• 40:38
  needs to be done with the, um, oil that's coming up out the ground.
• 40:41
  Right.
• 40:42
  Some places like North Sea, it comes up pretty good, so you, you … But
• 40:47
  there's some massive, um, um, ones in the Norwegian sector there.
• 40:50
  Like how many?
• 40:51
  People?
• 40:52
  Yeah.
• 40:52
  On the platforms?
• 40:53
  Yeah.
• 40:53
  Uh, typically, um, you know, 50.
• 40:56
  Oh.
• 40:56
  Uh, you're not gonna get … The thing is, is, you know, when you're designing it,
• 41:00
  you're not gonna … You, you … These numbers will be all calculated, uh, 'cause
• 41:05
  of the weight and, um, you know, just the, uh, physical putting it together- Right.
• 41:11
  Right, right … um, be- be- you know, before you take it out wherever it is.
• 41:14
  So yeah, it … You know, they got, they got turbines on there.
• 41:18
  There's, you know, they could power a small s- town or s- you know.
• 41:21
  Right.
• 41:22
  Right.
• 41:22
  But, uh, yeah.
• 41:24
  Yeah.
• 41:24
  It was g- yeah, really interesting.
• 41:26
  Really g- you've got all … You know, you've got diversity from, um, uh, the
• 41:30
  electrical, uh, the instrumentation, the process guys, the maintenance guys.
• 41:35
  Yeah, yeah.
• 41:36
  Safety.
• 41:37
  You know.
• 41:37
  Do- Cooks.
• 41:38
  Everything … do they, uh … Do these things move at all, or do
• 41:41
  they, are they pretty static?
• 41:42
  Do they, do they sway in the, in the water?
• 41:44
  Depends how far off shore you are.
• 41:47
  Oh, all right.
• 41:47
  So if you're in, like, rougher waters, it's gonna … It's g- you're gonna
• 41:50
  feel a little bit- Well, the technology, mainly by the, um, Americans in Texas,
• 41:54
  um, uh, started on shore, uh, where they developed all the, um, drilling- Right
• 41:59
  and, um, let's say knowledge of it all.
• 42:02
  Uh, and then as they realized that there was some just in the shore, uh, they moved
• 42:09
  slightly offshore, and then as technology sort of developed, they've moved
• 42:15
  further and further away from the shore.
• 42:17
  Um, so they are basically either anchored, uh, a semi-mo- mo-
• 42:22
  submersible or, um, chained down.
• 42:25
  You know, there's others now that they use, uh- Converted oil tankers really.
• 42:30
  So the whole production, um, facilities gets put on the oil tanker.
• 42:36
  Uh, they call them floating production, uh, units, which, um, you know, they
• 42:41
  obviously bob up and down in the sea and then, um, they got some storage
• 42:45
  and then another oil tanker will come along however often, depending
• 42:49
  on how high the production rates are, um, and offload, and then the
• 42:54
  cycle will just continue And you're
• 42:58
  Like, when you're on one of these things, you're in the middle of nowhere
• 43:00
  in the ocean, generally speaking.
• 43:02
  So you just look around and it's just water as far as the eye can see.
• 43:06
  Beautiful.
• 43:06
  Absolutely stunning.
• 43:08
  The stars must've been un- must've been incredible.
• 43:10
  It's just gorgeous.
• 43:11
  Yeah.
• 43:11
  It's just gorgeous.
• 43:12
  There's some days where you get … Like, for the North Sea, there was some days
• 43:15
  where the, the, the water will just be absolutely mirrored, flat calm.
• 43:20
  Oh, wow.
• 43:21
  Wow.
• 43:21
  Yeah, blissful.
• 43:22
  You see the sun come up.
• 43:23
  You might see some other, um, flares, uh, where they flare off some of
• 43:27
  the excess gas, in the distance.
• 43:29
  Um, and then another day, that sea will just be violent, and it's
• 43:36
  just like, "I'm not on something big enough to be out here."
• 43:39
  Right.
• 43:40
  Right, right.
• 43:40
  Um, so it is, uh, quite daunting sometimes.
• 43:43
  But yeah, you know, the beauty … It was … Yeah, this … You, you're up at
• 43:47
  sort of 5:00 or something in the morning, and you see the sun break through,
• 43:51
  and it's just like, "Yeah, this is…" You wouldn't wanna be anywhere else.
• 43:54
  But then you are there to work, you know.
• 43:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:57
  You know, there's not a lot of, uh, social life with it.
• 43:59
  Right.
• 44:00
  So were there ever any, like, incidents on one of these rigs that was, like, uh,
• 44:05
  uh, uh, dangerous or sketchy in any way?
• 44:08
  Were you ever in any danger?
• 44:10
  I will say the Norwegian one was, uh … Not, sorry, not the Norwegian one.
• 44:14
  The, uh, Nigerian- Uh-huh
• 44:16
  one was, was a little bit sketchy.
• 44:18
  We were on a platform that was designed for something else.
• 44:23
  Um, it wasn't particularly sized accordingly.
• 44:26
  Uh, and it was meant to degas, which we don't do in most Western
• 44:32
  areas, um, prior to it going to a secondary or main facility.
• 44:38
  Okay.
• 44:38
  Um, and, uh, it had, um, what can be best described as sort of like
• 44:44
  rubber pipework, uh, connecting between the two, um, platforms.
• 44:50
  Right.
• 44:52
  And, uh, one of the, um, flexible hoses basically blew out three days before I
• 44:57
  was due to go, and it just basically shook the, um, whole platform from side to side.
• 45:02
  You've got gas released at sort of 70 bar, a lot of it.
• 45:06
  You've still got the flare going.
• 45:08
  Uh, people were running.
• 45:10
  They were all on the heli deck.
• 45:12
  And fortunately, one of the, um, local, uh, supervisors … It
• 45:16
  wasn't the supervisor.
• 45:17
  I think it was the lead operator, uh, decided on his own to
• 45:21
  go back to the control room.
• 45:23
  Maybe he should've, um, hit it beforehand, or the supervisor.
• 45:26
  Any- whoever should've … Uh, and then, um, yeah, shut the,
• 45:30
  um, downsea safety valves off.
• 45:32
  But yeah, that was, um, that could have been a, um, a major incident.
• 45:36
  Well, at least you weren't there at the time, so that's…
• 45:38
  dodged a bullet on that one.
• 45:39
  Yeah.
• 45:40
  Yeah.
• 45:40
  Um, so, and it pays quite well, as I think you said, the, the oil rig work, as I
• 45:45
  imagine- Yeah … it would pay quite well, 'cause it's somewhat dangerous and, you
• 45:48
  know, remote and all that kind of thing.
• 45:50
  Hard to have a relationship when you're on an oil rig, you know?
• 45:52
  Relationship's a classic one.
• 45:55
  You… It's, it's, um, unnatural really because you, you're used to
• 45:58
  nine to fives, only spending weekends and a few hours in the evening.
• 46:02
  These ones you've got no contact and then full contact for the two,
• 46:07
  three, four weeks, whatever it is.
• 46:10
  So yeah, it's quite a, quite an odd one because the other partner
• 46:13
  obviously forms a, a lifestyle, um, whilst you're away working and
• 46:19
  whichever way round it, um- Right.
• 46:20
  Right … And with the, with the money, the money is good,
• 46:23
  the, you know, it's factored in.
• 46:24
  But one of the main things is for half of the year you're in the middle
• 46:28
  of the ocean, you can't spend it.
• 46:30
  Right.
• 46:30
  So you're saving money.
• 46:31
  Right.
• 46:32
  Right.
• 46:32
  Exactly.
• 46:33
  Exactly.
• 46:34
  That's the thing that sort of, um, gets, uh, missed out of the equation.
• 46:39
  It's not like you come back with a whole briefcase full of cash.
• 46:42
  Um- Right.
• 46:43
  Right.
• 46:44
  It's just that you're not spending it.
• 46:45
  Yeah.
• 46:46
  Exactly.
• 46:46
  Exactly.
• 46:47
  Huh.
• 46:47
  The, the other unfortunate thing is, is, um, if, you know, when,
• 46:51
  when younger people get the, get…
• 46:54
  The, the money gets blown thinking, oh, there's fast cars and lots
• 46:58
  of lifestyle and whatever else.
• 46:59
  Right.
• 46:59
  Right.
• 47:00
  Um, so, you know, they can rather than saving it, invest in it or whatever it
• 47:04
  is, uh, you see quite older gentlemen still out there, um, with, with a
• 47:09
  couple of divorces and whatever else.
• 47:11
  And, uh, you know, really they should have done their time
• 47:13
  and no longer be exposed to it.
• 47:15
  Right.
• 47:16
  But you got out because you didn't make these mistakes.
• 47:20
  Or you were, you were able to get out Yeah Yeah, yeah.
• 47:22
  Yes.
• 47:23
  Yeah, yeah.
• 47:24
  Yeah.
• 47:24
  Um, so how long did you work?
• 47:27
  How many years did you work on these things?
• 47:29
  Uh, I worked up till I was, uh, 45.
• 47:31
  And you started when you were…?
• 47:33
  When I left, uh, university, so that would've been 23, I think.
• 47:38
  Wow.
• 47:38
  I didn't go straight, I didn't go straight into the offshore, to be honest.
• 47:41
  I, um, uh, I had no network or family connections.
• 47:47
  Uh, I wasn't from the, um, local oil or gas areas.
• 47:53
  Right.
• 47:53
  Uh, my first job was in, um… What was it?
• 47:56
  It was a, a coatings industry, which, uh, photoresist, and then, uh, I took a shift
• 48:02
  manager's role in an edible oils refinery in, um, uh, the Isle of Dogs in London.
• 48:09
  Huh, and so then you worked in the oil rigs for 20, 25 years or so.
• 48:13
  Uh, tw- 20 years sounds like about, give or take.
• 48:16
  Yeah.
• 48:16
  Yeah, give or take.
• 48:17
  Yeah.
• 48:17
  Give or take.
• 48:17
  Yeah.
• 48:17
  And then was that the place that you kind of traveling around the world doing
• 48:21
  this, was this where you got kind of the wanderlust that you're now ex- you,
• 48:25
  you know, you're now exploring it now?
• 48:27
  Um, I, I might have had it a little bit before, 'cause I did, um… I
• 48:31
  came out of the job from the Isle of Dogs, Jef, and then did go traveling.
• 48:36
  All right, so it's always been a thing.
• 48:37
  All right.
• 48:38
  Yeah.
• 48:38
  I did, I did the whole, um, um, year out, well, a little bit later.
• 48:43
  I obviously had to pay off my, um, student loans and, um,
• 48:47
  get some money together- Right
• 48:48
  which is what I did in those, with those first couple of jobs.
• 48:51
  Sure, sure, sure.
• 48:53
  And then, um, yeah, went, um, where did we start?
• 48:57
  Mainly started in India, I suppose, and then Southeast Asia, and then
• 49:00
  down through to Australia, which is a pretty common route for Europeans.
• 49:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:06
  And then, um, yeah, came back and was fortunate enough because
• 49:09
  I got the job through the Institute of Chemical Engineers.
• 49:12
  Um, I got back in touch with them when I got back to the UK, and they were like,
• 49:16
  "Well, you did, um, well with the, uh, uh, Isle of Dogs shift manager's role.
• 49:22
  How about, are you still interested in going offshore?" I was like,
• 49:26
  "Yes." And that was my in.
• 49:28
  Oh.
• 49:28
  So I was, I was a bit fortunate.
• 49:30
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:32
  So where do you think that this desire to see the world comes from?
• 49:36
  Like, is it just a thing that… Do… Is, like, your family or anybody, anybody in
• 49:39
  your life that influenced you to do this?
• 49:41
  Like, for myself, it was kinda my sister started traveling after she
• 49:44
  was in or whilst she was in college and kinda got me wanting to do it.
• 49:47
  Um, but I don't know.
• 49:49
  I mean, how did it happen for you?
• 49:50
  Was it just something that you were like, "I wanna see the world"?
• 49:53
  Uh, yeah, I think, uh, to be honest, I traveled with a mate from university, Tim.
• 49:57
  Right.
• 49:58
  And, um, he, he got in touch with me whilst I was basically still,
• 50:02
  you know, working in London.
• 50:04
  I, you know, hadn't really thought, rethought of it.
• 50:07
  And he j- he said that, that he was getting a little bit, uh, over the job
• 50:12
  he was in, and he said, "Do you still think about, um, going round the world?"
• 50:16
  I'm like, "Well, yeah, absolutely." Uh, he said, "Well," he said, "I'm ready to
• 50:21
  jack it , you know- Right … imminently." I said, "Well, you're gonna have to
• 50:24
  give us a couple of months to, um, get a little bit organized and to say my
• 50:28
  goodbyes." But, um, yeah, no, obviously, so at university he was aware and I
• 50:33
  was aware that I wanted to travel.
• 50:35
  We didn't do a lot of holidays as, um, as a family.
• 50:38
  Um, mainly we, you know, let's just say we didn't have, um,
• 50:42
  the, the spare cash for it.
• 50:44
  Right.
• 50:44
  But, um, you know, my grandad did travel, but we didn't know… Well,
• 50:49
  he basically was gonna leave and go to Australia, uh, and then New
• 50:53
  Zealand, and then he came back.
• 50:55
  He left, I think, when he was 16, so it was quite bold for a back,
• 50:59
  um, back at the turn of- For sure
• 51:01
  the century.
• 51:01
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:02
  Um, uh, he was working in, um, coal mines in New Zealand.
• 51:06
  Oh, wow.
• 51:08
  Yeah.
• 51:08
  And, uh, was on better money there than he was when he came back to the UK.
• 51:11
  Right.
• 51:12
  And he only came back because he had to settle his estate with,
• 51:15
  um, or w- what… Well, basically, I think his dad was dying.
• 51:18
  Wow.
• 51:18
  So, um- Right
• 51:20
  and then he met my grandmother when, um, he came back.
• 51:23
  So that was, that's where that changed.
• 51:25
  Hm.
• 51:25
  But maybe it did trigger something, but, uh, I, I just,
• 51:30
  there's a lot to see out there.
• 51:32
  Yeah, there is.
• 51:32
  And it's interesting that some people, I mean, in my perspective is the
• 51:36
  United States, but it seems like some people do very much wanna travel.
• 51:40
  Not a ton of people, in my experience, and some people just don't have
• 51:44
  any interest in seeing the world.
• 51:45
  And I just don't really understand why you wouldn't wanna see
• 51:49
  other places in the world.
• 51:50
  But then again, some people, I think a lot of it comes out of maybe fear, you know?
• 51:54
  I mean, or, you know, getting out of your comfort zone, all these kind of things.
• 51:58
  But, uh, uh, but yeah.
• 52:00
  I do agree with you there, Jef.
• 52:02
  The bit, the bit where I don't understand why you wouldn't wanna see it.
• 52:05
  Right.
• 52:06
  Right.
• 52:06
  Um, and a lot, a lot of people don't.
• 52:08
  I th- There, there's also the bit, um, you know, 'cause I have to think, um, why.
• 52:14
  Um, I think people get used to their home life- Yeah, they nest
• 52:19
  and the c- Yeah … and they nest.
• 52:21
  They do, and they get comfortable with what they know, and are comfortable
• 52:25
  with two-week holiday, wherever it is.
• 52:27
  Yeah.
• 52:27
  Um, you know, they save up and do that.
• 52:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 52:30
  And then the, that, and then they're back into whatever else.
• 52:32
  I suppose they get, um, you know, a structured… I think it's
• 52:36
  different as well, uh, with children.
• 52:38
  If you've got children- Oh, for sure.
• 52:40
  For sure, yeah … you know.
• 52:41
  Yeah.
• 52:41
  I th- I think, um, especially if that happens early on, then you sort of
• 52:46
  realize, your, your focus shifts, and then I think that's possibly
• 52:49
  where the, um, travel round the world bit, um, gets put on the, um, shelf.
• 52:56
  I also think that it's also, you know, fear of the unknown as well, and
• 53:01
  also a fear of perhaps being, like, confronted with a reality that you've
• 53:06
  dec- you've already decided that, whatever, Mexico's a dangerous place.
• 53:10
  So if you went there and found out otherwise, your, your, your reality would
• 53:14
  be, you know, somehow shattered in a way.
• 53:16
  I don't know.
• 53:16
  Well, I, I think, I think what, what happens there, they, they
• 53:20
  choose safer destinations.
• 53:21
  Yeah, they go to the beach resorts- They- And yeah, yeah.
• 53:23
  Yeah.
• 53:24
  Yeah.
• 53:24
  Yeah.
• 53:25
  We're in Mexico, but really you're just in, like, a, an American resort
• 53:28
  in Mexico or whatever the hell.
• 53:30
  There's stuff like Cancun.
• 53:31
  I hear that is basically the, uh, you, you get more trouble there, even though
• 53:35
  it's the popular tourist thing than- Right … than you do o- other areas.
• 53:39
  Right.
• 53:39
  So- Right … you know, they, what they, what they perceive as the, uh, safer
• 53:43
  option is the, uh, more dangerous option.
• 53:45
  Well, I think the cartels probably spend a lot of time there because they
• 53:48
  can sell the drugs to the tourists and all that kind of thing, but who knows?
• 53:51
  I don't know.
• 53:53
  Anyway, is there a place you've been in the world, Gary, that is like a highlight
• 53:57
  where you're like, "Oh, that was…" Or one of the, uh, not, maybe not number one.
• 54:01
  I know it's hard to do number one, but what's like one of the favorite places
• 54:06
  that you've been to in the whole world?
• 54:07
  Do you know, Jef, that's one of the, um, that's one of the most frequently
• 54:12
  asked questions really- Oh, well
• 54:13
  when you're cycling round and- Yeah … you know I'm sure,
• 54:15
  yeah … uh, and, um, I generally say the last country that I've been in.
• 54:20
  I name that because the, the memory's the freshest.
• 54:23
  Uh, you can list off stuff and various other things.
• 54:26
  But to answer your question, Japan was Uh, amazing Yeah For me m- mostly because
• 54:33
  it was totally, uh, so m- so varied.
• 54:37
  My perception I think was just it was gonna be massive Tokyo.
• 54:41
  And then I got there, and it's, um, 99% Japanese.
• 54:45
  So you get the full- Yeah … um, Japanese experience.
• 54:47
  Very, very homogenous.
• 54:48
  Yeah, yeah.
• 54:49
  You know?
• 54:50
  Um, lovely, polite, safe, interesting.
• 54:53
  Um, uh, I like the cultural, um, difference to what we're used to.
• 54:58
  Um, Nep- the other one there is Nepal.
• 55:01
  You've got the Himalayas, which are unlike anything else.
• 55:05
  Sure.
• 55:05
  Stunning.
• 55:06
  Uh, you've got the Buddhist … It's a bit like India, but it's,
• 55:10
  um, without the hassle.
• 55:11
  Right.
• 55:12
  So Nepal is- Yeah … it's up there.
• 55:14
  Uh, Southeast Asia's cool again.
• 55:17
  Yeah.
• 55:17
  Mainly culturally, lovely people.
• 55:19
  Um, safe.
• 55:21
  The Buddhist influence is always good.
• 55:23
  There are … You know, I th- I think there's really special places.
• 55:27
  I don't think I've, um … There's many that you go to and, um,
• 55:32
  come away, uh, disappointed.
• 55:34
  You know- Right … India is just so extreme.
• 55:38
  I don't think you can come away with India without having some perception.
• 55:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 55:41
  Love it or hate it.
• 55:43
  Yeah.
• 55:43
  I don't know that I could do India.
• 55:44
  I've heard so many stories about just, uh, all of the, uh, the touts and so forth.
• 55:50
  I don't know that I could.
• 55:51
  But, uh, who knows?
• 55:53
  Personal space in India, Jef, basically, you know, it's, uh,
• 55:58
  there's 1.4 billion- Yeah … Indians.
• 56:00
  Yeah.
• 56:00
  And, uh, it's not the biggest of countries.
• 56:02
  Yeah.
• 56:03
  And, uh, personal space is not something they, um, uh, highly
• 56:06
  regard, which obviously- Oh, yeah, I
• 56:08
  Yeah.
• 56:08
  I experienced that in South Korea.
• 56:09
  It was, it w- the personal space is not even a thing.
• 56:12
  It was crazy.
• 56:13
  Um- Not even a thing.
• 56:14
  Yeah, yeah.
• 56:15
  Yeah.
• 56:15
  And men holding hands- Yeah … which was weird.
• 56:17
  There was a, uh- … men are hold- men, men holding- That's
• 56:19
  an Indian thing as well.
• 56:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 56:21
  And one of my, one of my teachers at one point, we were just walking down the
• 56:23
  street after having, like, an introductory meeting, and he tries to hold my hand.
• 56:27
  And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah.
• 56:29
  No, no.
• 56:29
  I'm okay.
• 56:31
  I'm okay." Yeah.
• 56:31
  Yeah.
• 56:31
  Yeah.
• 56:32
  We don't, we don't do this.
• 56:33
  We don't do this.
• 56:34
  Yeah.
• 56:34
  We don't, we don't do that.
• 56:34
  No.
• 56:34
  I mean, I'm all for trying to, you know, integrate myself into the
• 56:37
  culture, but I'm not gonna, uh- I felt like drawing the line … hold a
• 56:39
  man's, hold a middle-aged man's hand.
• 56:40
  Get holded.
• 56:40
  Yeah.
• 56:41
  Um- Yeah … yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:43
  Uh, is there anywhere that you are still wanting to go?
• 56:45
  Is there … What's next on the list?
• 56:47
  I was gonna, um, get down to Bushfire, and if I had the timing right on
• 56:51
  the seasons- Get down to where?
• 56:52
  … uh, I was Uh, the southern tip of, uh, um, Argentina Okay It's just south of, uh,
• 56:58
  the Patagonian region Right It may even be in the very, um, yeah, Ushuaia it's
• 57:03
  spelled, um- Okay I'm not gonna try and spell it Yeah, it's okay Um, y- uh, and
• 57:07
  I was gonna come back up, but, um, yeah, I will be going back to the, uh, the UK
• 57:13
  and sorting out a few things that have popped up, and I've suppose I've saved
• 57:18
  Europe because it's close, and I hopefully can do that at any point unless they,
• 57:23
  um, change- That seems, that seems easy.
• 57:23
  Yeah.
• 57:24
  Yeah, that seems like an easy one- Yeah … at this point, yeah.
• 57:26
  So, um, I, you know, I was gonna probably try to get back up to sort of like Mexico-
• 57:32
  Yeah … um, for the, uh, so I was gonna try to, um, see a lot more of this area.
• 57:39
  Um, but circumstances have sort of, uh- limited that idea for now.
• 57:45
  So I would come back, definitely.
• 57:47
  Yeah, I would love to explore more of Mexico.
• 57:49
  The other one was I was gonna ride from, uh, Cairo to, um, Cape,
• 57:53
  which is also a, um, you know, pretty well-known cycle route.
• 57:58
  Right.
• 57:59
  The east of Austra- um, of Africa had always been perceived as the
• 58:04
  safer option- Sure … than the west.
• 58:06
  Yeah.
• 58:07
  Uh, whereas, whereas now it could be the opposite.
• 58:09
  You can't continuously ride through the countries on the east, so,
• 58:14
  um, that it, it's less appealing.
• 58:17
  If you, if you can ride the route straight, uh, and not have
• 58:20
  to worry about, um, putting it in a plane, then fair enough.
• 58:23
  Uh, I would probably, um, I would probably consider more China, really.
• 58:28
  Uh, I had a quick look in the southern bit, the Yunnan and the
• 58:32
  Sichuan region, uh, which I enjoyed.
• 58:34
  So I would, uh, consider China.
• 58:37
  Um- Yeah.
• 58:39
  Iceland.
• 58:39
  Do you ever wanna do Iceland?
• 58:40
  Because there's a ring road there, and people do that all the time.
• 58:42
  They do.
• 58:43
  They do.
• 58:43
  Um- Yeah, it's a beautiful country … you, the thing… Yeah.
• 58:46
  And, uh, the only thing is, is you s- it would be good.
• 58:50
  You would specifically fly in.
• 58:51
  Also windy, too.
• 58:52
  Do your route.
• 58:53
  Yeah, very windy though, too.
• 58:54
  Also windy.
• 58:54
  Yeah.
• 58:54
  You'd have to make sure you didn't get too cold.
• 58:56
  Yeah.
• 58:57
  And, uh, I would imagine rather expensive, but, um- Yeah, it's expensive … yeah,
• 59:02
  um, it would be good to, good to ride, but, uh, ag- probably again,
• 59:07
  a little later on when you, when you haven't got, or I wouldn't be able
• 59:11
  to designate large chunks of time.
• 59:14
  Right.
• 59:14
  If I, if, you know, it's a bit like cycling around Ireland.
• 59:18
  That would be great.
• 59:19
  Yeah, I would- But again, I can do that in the summer- Yeah … uh, from the UK.
• 59:23
  Yeah, I'll do that with you, Gary.
• 59:25
  I would love to do that.
• 59:25
  When I was in Ireland, like you can see- Absolutely … bike paths
• 59:28
  everywhere, and they're like beautiful well-paved bike paths all around
• 59:32
  the country, and it's just, yeah.
• 59:35
  Well, we'll line that up, Jef.
• 59:36
  We'll get that sorted out.
• 59:37
  Yeah, yeah, we'll have to do that.
• 59:38
  Yeah.
• 59:38
  Once I get a, once I get a job, Gary, I'll…
• 59:42
  Or once the podcast takes off.
• 59:44
  Okay, there's a few things, there's a few things we gotta sort out beforehand.
• 59:47
  Yeah, I need to get- But once we get- Need to get some money first
• 59:49
  once we get the- But, uh- Yeah … yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:50
  Yeah, once we get them, yeah.
• 59:52
  Once we get some, that money.
• 59:52
  Yeah, once we get that sorted and lined up.
• 59:54
  Like, the food, the food thing and the money thing figured out, then we'll
• 59:56
  talk about doing an Ireland- Yeah, an overseas bike trip, yeah Well, the
• 1:00:02
  other side of that one would be that it does, the weather there is kinda shit,
• 1:00:05
  so it would be a lot of like, it, you know, it does rain quite a bit, so it'd
• 1:00:08
  be a wet one It would be a wet one.
• 1:00:09
  You basically have to, have to be prepared to, um, get very
• 1:00:13
  wet, so it would be wet gear.
• 1:00:15
  Uh- Yeah … y- your camping, camping would be okay, but you'd have to get
• 1:00:18
  used to basically, um, putting on wet clothes and, um- Ugh, yeah, maybe
• 1:00:22
  not … packing- All right, I take it back … packing, packing a wet I don't,
• 1:00:23
  I don't wanna go any- Packing a wet tent
• 1:00:25
  I don't wanna go anymore.
• 1:00:26
  We'll go somewhere else, Gary.
• 1:00:27
  I don't wanna go to, I don't wanna go there.
• 1:00:28
  We'll just go back to Mexico and we'll go somewhere else Mexico.
• 1:00:31
  Yeah, yeah Go through the Baja.
• 1:00:32
  Sure.
• 1:00:33
  Down, down.
• 1:00:34
  Uh, we can get more of that sp- spectacular heroin we got in, in Mexico
• 1:00:39
  City- … and, uh, just get ripped.
• 1:00:41
  And just fly.
• 1:00:42
  Right.
• 1:00:42
  Yep.
• 1:00:42
  Right, right, right, right.
• 1:00:43
  It's easier to bike when you're on that heroin.
• 1:00:44
  That's what you always said.
• 1:00:46
  That's what I find, yeah.
• 1:00:47
  Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:49
  That's the thing we haven't talked about is how you are doing this
• 1:00:51
  entire trip, uh, just doing heroin the whole way, isn't that right?
• 1:00:54
  We didn't mention that- That's right
• 1:00:56
  in this episode.
• 1:00:56
  Yeah, that's right.
• 1:00:56
  No.
• 1:00:56
  Right.
• 1:00:56
  No.
• 1:00:57
  Um, which is interesting.
• 1:00:57
  It's, uh, not something I d- I don't bring up very often.
• 1:01:00
  Yeah, no, I know you don't like to talk about it.
• 1:01:02
  Um, um- But, you know, we like people to be honest on this podcast.
• 1:01:04
  So yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:05
  Um, Gary, just, I mean, functional heroin addict to a
• 1:01:08
  degree that's really impressive.
• 1:01:10
  Wow, what was the, uh, uh, um, isn't it the Rolling Stones', uh, lead guitarist
• 1:01:15
  or bassist, bass gu- Keith, um, Richards Keith Richards, yeah, who should be
• 1:01:19
  dead 80 times by this point, yeah.
• 1:01:21
  That's right.
• 1:01:22
  Yeah, you're like the biking- For his, uh- You're like the biking
• 1:01:24
  version of Keith Richards, Gary.
• 1:01:28
  And I love his dress sense.
• 1:01:29
  Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  But, um- He's, um- Yeah … always got a cigarette hanging out of
• 1:01:32
  your mouth- … a needle out of your arm, biking down the road.
• 1:01:35
  Fucking crazy.
• 1:01:36
  Um, hey, Gary doesn't do heroin while he bikes.
• 1:01:39
  Just disclaimer for anybody who th- doesn't understand- That's right.
• 1:01:43
  We better just clear it up, yeah … kind of just friendly joshing.
• 1:01:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:45
  Yeah.
• 1:01:45
  Uh, we did ride in an air balloon together though, so that was actually a thing.
• 1:01:49
  We definitely did that, didn't we?
• 1:01:51
  We, we weren't lying on the floor- We did, that was, uh, yeah … in, in some sort
• 1:01:54
  of, like, squat or something did- Yeah, I never thought I'd go on an air balloon.
• 1:01:56
  We- It was pretty incredible.
• 1:01:57
  That was, that was, and I, I gotta say, I think for, for a flight, it was, um, it
• 1:02:03
  was absolutely stunning going over those, um- Yeah, no … pyramids … it was, it
• 1:02:07
  was, it was one of the f- you know, you do a lot of touristy things when you go to
• 1:02:10
  places, and then some of them disappoint- Mm-hmm … and some of them are good.
• 1:02:12
  But that one- That, yeah … over- oversold.
• 1:02:14
  Except for the ride back- Totally … was the nightmare part for me.
• 1:02:17
  Oh, yes.
• 1:02:18
  But, yeah.
• 1:02:18
  Yeah.
• 1:02:19
  Yeah.
• 1:02:19
  When he, when he basically dropped other people off and, uh, went out of his
• 1:02:23
  way as opposed to just sort of, like, drop- To drop us off last … yeah.
• 1:02:24
  I don't know what we did, but, uh, we did something.
• 1:02:27
  Um- Yeah.
• 1:02:28
  I think it was all the heroin you were doing in the back of the- That's right.
• 1:02:32
  And chatting to him all the time.
• 1:02:33
  Right, right, right.
• 1:02:34
  Yeah.
• 1:02:35
  Um, well, Gary, the last question, which doesn't seem appropriate based on
• 1:02:38
  our conversation about the biking, but the last question I do ask people, uh,
• 1:02:42
  at the end of the, uh, the podcast is what do you think happens when we die?
• 1:02:47
  Ah, interesting, um, change of, uh, pace there Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:52
  Well, usually the conversation's more about, you know, I mean, this has been a
• 1:02:56
  focus of your biking and all that kind of thing, so it's b- it is a very much a…
• 1:03:00
  It does feel like a 180 in this case.
• 1:03:02
  Yes, you're right.
• 1:03:03
  Okay.
• 1:03:03
  It some- sometimes there it's a little bit more philosophical, uh, philosophical.
• 1:03:08
  Yeah, that's the word.
• 1:03:09
  You got it.
• 1:03:09
  Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  You got there.
• 1:03:10
  You got there.
• 1:03:11
  Um, it's funny that.
• 1:03:13
  That's, um, that is quite an interesting, um, poignant question.
• 1:03:17
  I, up until for quite a while I was, um, to the, uh, opinion that, um, you did just
• 1:03:27
  basically run your course- Mm … and, uh, and there, there was nothing afterwards.
• 1:03:32
  However, I'm starting to find there, there possibly is a little bit more to
• 1:03:37
  your, uh, soul- Mm … and, uh, levels of energy, um, and whether or not there is a
• 1:03:45
  particular chance of, uh, reincarnation.
• 1:03:50
  So I, I, yeah, I'm undecided at the moment.
• 1:03:53
  I'm certainly not gonna say the, uh, that I'm… Mm, that does
• 1:03:58
  lead into a creator or non-creator type of- Right, right, right
• 1:04:01
  question, which does sorta sorta suggest, um, before the Big Bang there was nothing.
• 1:04:07
  How do you, um, have nothing and then everything?
• 1:04:10
  So, um- Yeah, it could well be, um- Yeah … that there is.
• 1:04:17
  Who knows?
• 1:04:18
  Who knows?
• 1:04:18
  Consciousness might live on.
• 1:04:19
  Well, that's… Yes, consciousness- Yeah … is, is, um, probably
• 1:04:23
  a better description than soul.
• 1:04:25
  Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  Yeah.
• 1:04:27
  It's so much easier to believe that this is it when you're,
• 1:04:30
  like, 20 years old, isn't it?
• 1:04:31
  And then as you get older it becomes- Yeah … a little harder,
• 1:04:33
  so you have to start to, yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Um- Well, I… And again- again, when we, when we've ans- when you, when you get
• 1:04:39
  there, you think, "Oh, people only think like that because they're getting closer
• 1:04:43
  to the end, and they want something else.
• 1:04:46
  Um, and they don't… They're not comfortable with the idea
• 1:04:48
  that it does just end." Right.
• 1:04:50
  But it's, it's more than that.
• 1:04:52
  Yeah, I think so too.
• 1:04:53
  You know, your thinking changes, and it's like, actually nothing doesn't quite f-
• 1:05:00
  isn't quite enough, um, of an answer.
• 1:05:03
  Could well be, because, I mean, you know, there's greater minds that do
• 1:05:06
  actually, uh, split the difference, that, um, you know, got physicists
• 1:05:10
  that do and don't believe in it, um, astrologers, whichever it is.
• 1:05:14
  So, um, yeah, um, I'm still, um, not completely convinced, whereas before I
• 1:05:21
  was quite a stringent, um, uh, atheist thinking that there is nothing else,
• 1:05:26
  and I was quite, um, you know, let's say blase about the fact that whoever
• 1:05:31
  thought there was other things, I was quite happy for them to think it.
• 1:05:33
  Sure.
• 1:05:34
  But I was thinking they're way off the mark, whereas now I'm actually
• 1:05:37
  like, I don't believe that, um, you know, which religion could
• 1:05:42
  be closest to the right truth.
• 1:05:44
  But, um, the consciousness thing is the bit that, um, I
• 1:05:48
  find most- Open-ended Yeah.
• 1:05:52
  A- and I also think, like, I, I was raised Catholic, so the, the
• 1:05:56
  only spiritual ideas I was exposed to as a child was just, like,
• 1:06:00
  Christianity and pretty much it, right?
• 1:06:02
  And, and I think as I've gotten older and as, you know, time has
• 1:06:07
  gone on, there's been much more of an exploration of what even the nature
• 1:06:10
  of consciousness is, and much more…
• 1:06:13
  Many more people meditating, and many more people doing yoga, and things
• 1:06:15
  like this, this, the New Age movement, if you wanna call it something.
• 1:06:18
  And I think that's also contributed a little bit to my, um, rethinking of my
• 1:06:23
  beliefs about what perhaps this all is or what it isn't, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:06:30
  Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  I, um, I, I went along to, um, what is it?
• 1:06:35
  The 10-day silent retreat- Yeah, yeah, in Koh Sam- … yeah, in Thailand.
• 1:06:38
  Yeah.
• 1:06:38
  Um, and reading around, um, the, the, the belief of, um, Buddhism, it's, you
• 1:06:47
  know, it's solid, it's well put together.
• 1:06:49
  Um, I don't think, um, Western people adopt it particularly well.
• 1:06:55
  You can't sort of un-educate the Christian upbringing, um- Yeah
• 1:07:00
  and try to, try to shoehorn it into the, um, the Buddhist thingy.
• 1:07:05
  I think it suits, uh, the Southeast Asian and, uh, Indian and Belize better.
• 1:07:09
  Um- Yeah, I agree.
• 1:07:11
  Uh, although I would say that even a little bit of Buddhism is
• 1:07:14
  better than no Buddhism at all.
• 1:07:16
  Absolutely.
• 1:07:18
  If, uh, if you're gonna pick- It should be their slogan.
• 1:07:19
  It should be their slogan.
• 1:07:20
  Oh, that's right.
• 1:07:20
  Write their new slogan.
• 1:07:21
  Yeah.
• 1:07:21
  A little bit of Buddhism.
• 1:07:23
  Better start producing, start producing T-shirts and, and mugs.
• 1:07:26
  Right.
• 1:07:26
  The, um, um… But I think if you were gonna choose one, I'd choose that
• 1:07:30
  one, if we were gonna have anything.
• 1:07:32
  For sure.
• 1:07:32
  If you could just have, if you could go carte blanche across the whole
• 1:07:36
  world, uh, and people had the choice of nothing and/or that, that is the
• 1:07:40
  one that, uh, I think we should have.
• 1:07:43
  Right.
• 1:07:44
  I mean, Buddhism isn't really jive with capitalism either, so I feel like that's
• 1:07:48
  kind of gon- not gonna work out too well.
• 1:07:50
  Although Jesus, like, wasn't big on money either, but they've kind of forgotten
• 1:07:53
  about that part of the Bible, I guess.
• 1:07:55
  Yeah, I think, um, yeah, uh, basically I think they emphasize on materialism- Yeah
• 1:08:01
  is the, um, root.
• 1:08:02
  So, you know- Yeah, they really do … which is materialism is the one
• 1:08:05
  that is a progression of capitalism.
• 1:08:07
  It's moving into greed.
• 1:08:09
  Right.
• 1:08:10
  So- Right … i- if you could, if you could moderate a form of
• 1:08:14
  capitalism, I think you could probably have them working symbiotically.
• 1:08:19
  I don't know, but I know that I don't know, and that's all that I need to know.
• 1:08:24
  Yeah, that works well, Jef.
• 1:08:26
  Uh, anyway, Gary, it was wonderful to hear your voice again.
• 1:08:29
  I haven't talked to you for s- for, I don't know, it's only been
• 1:08:31
  eight months, but, uh, we had such a good time in Mexico City.
• 1:08:34
  You're like one of these people that I've met on my, met on my,
• 1:08:37
  met on my travels that I'm like, "I'm gonna know Gary forever."
• 1:08:39
  So I'm really glad- Absolutely, Jef … I'm really glad I g- I got
• 1:08:42
  a chance to cut up, to catch up.
• 1:08:44
  Ugh, my brain.
• 1:08:45
  And yeah, thanks for sitting down and talking about this.
• 1:08:47
  You're, uh, you- good luck on your biking.
• 1:08:49
  How long are you gonna be… When do you, when do you head out?
• 1:08:51
  Tomorrow you said?
• 1:08:52
  I will be tomorrow, yeah.
• 1:08:53
  I'll probably make, um, it's always, uh, a little bit later than you think.
• 1:08:58
  Nor- you know, when you're wrapping a tent up, you can be
• 1:09:00
  gone by 7:00 in the morning.
• 1:09:02
  Right.
• 1:09:02
  Right, right.
• 1:09:02
  When you leave, when you're leaving a comfortable, um, piece
• 1:09:05
  of accommodation- Yeah, yeah, yeah … it is closer to half 9.
• 1:09:09
  But, um- And how far, how far are you gonna bike tomorrow do you think?
• 1:09:12
  How many, how many miles you do?
• 1:09:13
  Uh- How many kilometers or miles do you do a day?
• 1:09:16
  I used to say if you're roughly, you can, you can, um, aim for, uh,
• 1:09:21
  100K a day, uh, consistently without actually sort of blowing your legs.
• 1:09:25
  Right.
• 1:09:26
  Right.
• 1:09:26
  Um, it's a little bit different in the mountains and all the headwinds,
• 1:09:30
  so you've got to factor that in.
• 1:09:32
  Alt and road surface, if it's, um, you know, sealed, you're, you're good as gold.
• 1:09:37
  If it's, uh, gravelly, uh, things can get a little bit harder.
• 1:09:40
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:40
  But, um, what I normally do for the first one is I just sort of get myself away
• 1:09:46
  from, uh, where I'm leaving- Right … and look for somewhere suitable early in the
• 1:09:51
  afternoon, just so you got your first day and a decent camping place- Right
• 1:09:55
  um, set up for, and then you get into your rhythm after that.
• 1:09:59
  What's the highest elevation you've been at, do you think, at this,
• 1:10:03
  uh, at this point on the trip?
• 1:10:04
  Oof.
• 1:10:05
  Uh- Like, high enough where it was, like, hard to breathe?
• 1:10:09
  Yeah.
• 1:10:09
  Yeah.
• 1:10:10
  Y- yeah, y- I mean, I'm not sure how high they get in North America, but it
• 1:10:15
  must have had, uh- I mean, Colombia.
• 1:10:15
  Yeah, it must have been high.
• 1:10:16
  Yeah.
• 1:10:17
  That's a ridiculous question- Yeah … 'cause some places up there are, like,
• 1:10:19
  8,000, 9,000 feet, which is, I don't know how many of your kilometers-
• 1:10:22
  Yes … that is, but, you know.
• 1:10:24
  Yeah, good 4,000 meters.
• 1:10:26
  Yeah.
• 1:10:26
  Yeah.
• 1:10:26
  Easy.
• 1:10:27
  A- and plus, I think, I think, um, I think it pushes five and a bit, uh, at some
• 1:10:34
  of the passes possibly across the Andes.
• 1:10:36
  Goddamn.
• 1:10:36
  Uh, obviously the Himalayas previously, you're, you're up high.
• 1:10:41
  But for the beauty of all of that, you get the views, so.
• 1:10:43
  Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:44
  Um- And you're gonna be, you're gonna be ripped, Gary, when
• 1:10:47
  you're done with this trip.
• 1:10:48
  You're gonna be legitimately ripped.
• 1:10:50
  Well, the legs.
• 1:10:51
  The le- you end up with- Right.
• 1:10:52
  Right, right.
• 1:10:53
  The legs will be ripped- Y- disproportionate … upper body.
• 1:10:55
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:55
  That's what I said.
• 1:10:55
  Like, the- Disproportionate.
• 1:10:57
  You end up going home looking like a frog, but, um- … yeah.
• 1:11:01
  Little tiny little arms.
• 1:11:02
  You end up going home like, well, those, like, Tour de France riders.
• 1:11:05
  They all look like, you know, they have giant legs and little bitty upper bodies.
• 1:11:08
  Yeah.
• 1:11:08
  It's kind of funny.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah.
• 1:11:10
  Yeah.
• 1:11:11
  Um, well, you know, you can, you can glutton.
• 1:11:13
  You can be a glutton when you get back to England and eat all the delicious British
• 1:11:17
  food that your country is known for.
• 1:11:19
  That's so well-phrased.
• 1:11:20
  Yeah.
• 1:11:20
  Um, like, you know, boiled potatoes- Yeah … and boiled
• 1:11:22
  pizza and all that kind of thing.
• 1:11:24
  Yum.
• 1:11:24
  It's amazing, it's amazing that everyone seems to have a go at that.
• 1:11:28
  Well, it gets good Indian food.
• 1:11:30
  Good Indian food.
• 1:11:31
  Yes, they do have good Indian food.
• 1:11:32
  Yeah.
• 1:11:33
  It's funny.
• 1:11:33
  Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  All right, Gary.
• 1:11:35
  Well, wonderful talking to you.
• 1:11:36
  Thanks for doing this.
• 1:11:37
  Good luck on the ride.
• 1:11:38
  Keep me posted.
• 1:11:40
  Uh, and yeah, let's keep in touch, man.
• 1:11:42
  I'll talk to you again soon, I hope.
• 1:11:44
  Nice one, Jef.
• 1:11:44
  Absolutely.
• 1:11:45
  Keep in touch.
• 1:11:46
  Yeah, man.
• 1:11:46
  Love you, my friend.
• 1:11:47
  Love you, too.
• 1:11:51
  And that was Gary Clarke about to continue his trip south through the Peruvian
• 1:11:56
  mountains and towards Tierra del Fuego.
• 1:12:00
  It was great to catch up with Gary, and I hope you enjoyed that
• 1:12:03
  conversation as much as I did.
• 1:12:05
  And if you did enjoy this conversation, please share the podcast with someone.
• 1:12:10
  Trying to grow a podcast takes a village.
• 1:12:14
  And if you yourself enjoy the show, then your friends probably will too.
• 1:12:19
  Just text them a link to onefjefpod.com, which is the
• 1:12:23
  brand-new website for the podcast.
• 1:12:25
  It's a bit bare bones at the moment, but it gets the job done, onefjefpod.com.
• 1:12:32
  And if you'd like to follow Gary on his epic bike journey, you can follow
• 1:12:35
  him on Instagram at Gary_Clarke.
• 1:12:38
  That's Gary_Clarke, C-L-A-R-K-E.
• 1:12:44
  And if you'd like to follow this podcast on its epic podcast journey, you can
• 1:12:49
  follow it on Instagram at onefjefpod.
• 1:12:53
  That's onefjefpod, one word.
• 1:12:57
  I'm always interested in your thoughts, feedback, or suggestions,
• 1:13:00
  which you can email to me as always at onefjefpod@gmail.com.
• 1:13:05
  And for those of you not listening with a notepad at hand, all this information
• 1:13:10
  will also be available in the show notes.
• 1:13:13
  I'm going to leave you today with a short poem by the legendary Rumi,
• 1:13:19
  which feels strangely appropriate in these strange, heartbreaking times.
• 1:13:26
  "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there's a field.
• 1:13:32
  I'll meet you there.
• 1:13:34
  When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about.
• 1:13:40
  Ideas, language, even the phrase 'each other' doesn't make any sense."
• 1:13:48
  Take care of yourselves, my friends.
• 1:13:51
  I'll see you soon Very good, Jeffrey