Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / A Different Point of View | a conversation with Jared Anderson

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A Different Point of View | a conversation with Jared Anderson · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I am Amy Wix, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is with worship leader and songwriter Jared Anderson.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: He and his beautiful family are longtime friends going back almost two decades.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: We both have the privilege of being a part of the Desperation team in very different roles, I might add.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And naturally, Jared has written and contributed to several worship albums and even big hits sung by various Christian musicians.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't met him yet, I can't wait to introduce you, because you've probably sung a song or two of his.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Some of his top songs are Glorified, Amazed, and Rescue.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Friday, just last Friday, October 4th, Jared released his newest album, A Whole New Landscape.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And y'all, it is so very good.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: I truly have his tracks on repeat over here.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to gush about my old and new favorites of his, and Jared will even give us a peek behind some of his favorites as well.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: He is one talented guy, and I love how our conversation zigged and zagged through story, music, and of course the Enneagram.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, if you're new to the Enneagram and need to know the best place to begin, head on over to simply wholehearted.com where you can find my Enneagram Quick Start Guide, my one-page Enneagram summary, which gives you an overview of all nine types, and these both might be perfect ways to help you follow along in the conversation.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And now you can learn about what the Enneagram can do for you, what it is, what it's not, and all nine types in less than 30 minutes.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: My Easy Enneagram 101 course is only the price of a fancy cup of coffee, and you'll be confident you're on the right track of your Enneagram journey.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Stay tuned for lots more easy Enneagram material.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and a shout out to Jessamine and Rue for the lovely music you're hearing in the background.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now here's my conversation with Jared Anderson for sure.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like during a missions trip home.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: All the time 24-7.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you've been writing music since before I knew you.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I came to New Life Church back in 1998.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm feeling a little bit old, but that's all right.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: It happens to the best of us.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's all good.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's only getting better.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, really honestly, that it I can say that to be true.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's only getting better.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but so I mean, since I've known you, I've been writing music and performing and leading worship.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: And for you, when it comes to I you've written some amazing songs, some of my favorite, truly all-time favorite, especially like The Great I Am.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's still gonna be hands down, I think, my favorite.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: For you, for some of your songs or for some of your albums, was there ever that broken-hearted moment that led to kind of the wholehearted decision to write the music or write the album or even in leading worship and how the Lord has led you in that?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's I think following your heart is like one of the most expensive things you can do.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like we're talking earlier about the resistance that's uh happening, and you really don't know what you're in for when you're in it, of course.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I I didn't predict myself being here, you know, right?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it is kind of that, and there I mean there are still times when you're like, uh, maybe I should completely change directions.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, but but those I think those moments get more spaced out.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's good, yeah, fewer and far between.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a there's a significant habit, or it's a significant um skill to learn or muscle to exercise to actually bless your own story because it is so full of heartache and so much of it goes unseen.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um that oftentimes you just you just would rather switch it out for something else.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, walking through that, and and then and then it becomes like I I need I need help doing that.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I need help blessing my own story, um, because my heart is is weak oftentimes.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, still I'm still doing it, and it's it's evolving, yeah, for sure.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And ongoing.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like to invite someone else to help you process your story or see your story from a healthy perspective?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I've often just felt like it's it's like starting your own church, really, like like the church for me, like everything I would need from a congregation or a group of people that could uh uh like a church for my own heart, like that space.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to have an architecture and a structure and uh windows and doors and and um decor and a vibe and something, and it's not just my house or my job or my career, but it's like uh really like who's the Teresa Vavalo, the interior castle.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I need characters in those stories, and I need guides.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it is like you test out relationships of like, wow, is this can this handle can this handle what I'm bringing to it?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is this been is it trustworthy?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and um that's you have to walk that out, and it's net you know, betrayal is so deep and hard.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're often, especially in the church world and the in the in this in leadership structure, abuses of of that that relationship, that tenderness, that spiritual gift betrayal and and abuses is yeah, so common.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and uh way more often than we would like to say.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: For me here with the simply wholehearted community, we talk a lot about inviting someone in, maybe with someone without a relational equity, someone like a therapist and a counselor.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen that to play out in a way to really help, especially if you find someone good who can help you look at your story from a different perspective, to be a good way to find some of that healing and understanding.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, wholeheartedly agree.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: For you, what was um how about for this album?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like it there's been a little bit of space of quiet from you in the songwriting and and all of that.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I mean, we've certainly again your songs that have been written many years ago are still played to this day, and you know, common things like Spotify and Amazon music, you can not hear something new from artists for a long time, but still hear them plenty of times.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what's a little story behind this album?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: What maybe um led to some of the songs that you began to write and saw how they all fit together?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So interestingly, like the best song I've ever written, I wrote in college, and it's called Neptune's Taming of the Seahorse.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it really is.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so why do you say it's the best?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of curious.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is like my it is uh I've never I've never written anything past it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Never it's imaginative, it's um it's full, it's wild, it's I it just never, and it was my junior year, and I know I it's just stuck with me for so long.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote all this kind of several records of what I call lamp music, which was this kind of uh quirky, a bit avant-garde, it had nothing to do.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was I almost felt like worship was where I wrestled out my hopes, and yeah, and this is where I wrestled out my doubts.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's put that as a piece.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Neptune's taming of the seahorse.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so I have a seahorse tattoo, my LC is called Seahorse Records.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is a severe commitment on my part.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little concept that is like uh not known and widely seen, but kind of through just part of my story, and maybe three years after that, I wrote um maybe two years after that, I wrote the song Rescue that was a worship song and a prayer that I really didn't intend.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: No one was doing it, wasn't what it is now, um and and it just kind of exploded underneath um my nose.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess I've come to this place where I'm like, I'm trying to hold two things, like the seahorse and rescue, and I'm trying to put you know, build a house that can hold both of those, both of those, right?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept running back to the church, to the Christian music industry, like, hey, if I if I perform well enough for you, will you see all of me?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that will never happen, yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that realization of like, oh my gosh, I and to please, I I am a seven, so I'm like, I'm an enthusiast, I'm I'm I get excited about stuff, I believe deeply, and and I'm awakened deeply, and so and you have lots of ideas in all of it, all the ideas.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my gosh, yes, uh I can't unscramble, you know when they do like letter words and like unscramble these put them in for the right order.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: But if you give me a really boring sentence, I can write a whole paragraph off of one boring sentence, right?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like fantastic.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: My light, my spotlights go out.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I have a hard time reigning them in.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, running to that achievement, or like, will you father me, mother me, see me for who I am, delight in me?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was not going to happen in the context that I kept running to, which left me like, okay, what do I do with that?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's frustrating.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: What is right, what's still good, what's worth preserving.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So this project was like a return in many ways toward um where I started, what I started with, uh what spoke to me and how I wanted to hear that, and who I wanted to hear it with.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: The players to the producer to it's very um connected to my own context.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so good.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like, yeah, I feel like this is an it kind of encompasses all that I've known from you over the last over 20 years, where you have for me, kindness is my new favorite.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like that one, again, like just sets my heart in the right place.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've had it on repeat, just kind of like the great I am in that way.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: But then you have heaven stands up and it feels a little bit like you know, in the greatest showman, where uh Keila Settle comes in and this is me, like her little anthem, and it becomes like this course, this anthem that is being sung.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I listen to that and I'm kind of like, that's my like get up and go and face it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a little bit of your what I see is your your kind of twist on what has been traditionally done out there, and go, no, this I I'm gonna put me back in here, and I absolutely see totally.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're kind of in the this season, or we're in a stream of like mega brands and yes, like all the big Wii songs and you know, universal anthems, and I I think that's reflective of sometimes the machinery, yeah, and like the individual is like, well, you may see him on this tour, but you probably won't see him on the next one.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the brand goes on and the people come and go, yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is resistance to that for sure.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I like it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And what's the the way albums are being done?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: The industry is so different.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I just can't even imagine in the span of time that you've been involved in it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like today?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Is it look like really just doing your own thing, or you put out a single and then you do smaller, shorter albums?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: What's kind of the hope and the dream behind it all?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I mean, you just have to be a part of it of every part of the process, which is I think good in in a way, sure in this the narrative stays together.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: True, that's very true, right?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: But and if it's a strong narrative, then I think it resonates with people, but then getting that word out, and um, so it's very much like a la carte in a way.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's not yeah, people probably rarely listen to an album in its entirety anymore from beginning to end, I would imagine.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it it it totally depends on.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, for instance, you're not gonna just go and buy a Bob Dylan track, yeah because right because the songs of Bob Dylan maybe not a lot come to mind along the watchtower, but like the ethos is so strong that you're like it's almost beyond the songs, right?
• 14:38
  unknown: Right.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of have to, whatever your strength is, then you play to your to your strength, you know.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so I think there's a lot of possibilities, but there's um, you know, the GPS uh or um you know a map is not super clear.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's probably similar to kind of the book writing industry that I'm more familiar with.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, you have to be in every single piece, and you better hope that you're really passionate about it because if you're not, you'll be sick of it pretty darn quick.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: But then also the integrity does stay because you're the one talking about it, no one else is giving the talking points, and you can share the the passion behind the message that can get lost in translation if other people are communicating for you.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally, yes, and it really is about finding the community of people that need this and resonate with it to help bond you, it will last a bit longer.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so true.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I know this is a always a mean thing to say because it's like telling asking you what your favorite kid is, but do you have a favorite song on this new album?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh-huh.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Probably work of art.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's like so good.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Really like tell me a little bit behind the scenes of what led to that work.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was I I go, I lead worship at a church in Tennessee once a month called World Outreach Church.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, totally know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a guy who used to be a Christian band 33 miles who's been a part of that, and he's like, Man, we need a ride.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I hang hung over it for a day or something, and we're just in the choir room, and he's like, I like this chord progression, and that just came kind of out of not out of nowhere, not really out of nowhere, but very unvery surprisingly that something that sticky would have come in such a more casual approach, I guess.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think you this Rita Springer's song Defender, let's get it kind of going everywhere, is so good.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you picked up all my pieces and put me back together, which I think is resonates with a lot of the kind of process that people are in, like having gone for an achievement, and then looking back and seeing, wow, there's a lot of parts of me that are just like all over the place.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I like reconstruct a soul in the midst of a career in a in a family in a community?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it and then it just took like faith for me to say, I am your work of art and it's good.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I'm like praying through that song as you're singing on the things kind of like do I really believe it?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what I'm like.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I really believe this, but I want to believe this.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what the point of song point of songs are, is like most of the time if I'm writing it or singing it and I'm not sure if I really believe it, then I if I'm so sure I believe it, then I probably don't really need it that much.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it it is like continuing to be on the border of what is possible for my heart to say.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: If it comes easily, then it's might not be all that important, but that feels really uh costly to say, but I love being your artwork.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why that that song just gets back to me.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: You're still singing it to believe it.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's requires faith.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good now.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm right there with you.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm guessing my friends who will want to listen to all of the music after this, they're gonna they're gonna hear that and it's gonna strike a chord because I don't know um one person who has that totally down yet where they can it's it's what we believe, yes, but are we really living what we're believing, as my friend Katie Roselli says, and that that takes a daily process uh to get there.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope I hope we get there on this side of heaven, but we may not until we're on the other side.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think somehow like the act of singing, kind of like it's almost like communion.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, I gotta put this into my own voice, and and I gotta hear it, I gotta hear myself say it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good point, actually, and it reminds me of some conversation because some people, maybe even some of my kiddos in my home, they don't they like music and you know, they've grown up with worship music their whole life, but they've asked me before, Mom, why did why is worship so important to you?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, I have uh you know all the reasons, and it's a long conversation, but I would what would you say to the person who is like uh what's the big deal?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: What's the big deal about worship?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: What's the big deal about seeing something that has Christian lyrics?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Ris I think it's responding to the Lord, and it's just so important to acknowledge that he's a part of the smallest and the greatest, and I know we've put it into a genre, we've actually reduced it into a genre, yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, sure, but that's what we do, yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're that's as soon as we see um a wind in the soul, we want to capitalize on it, but that thing of responding to the one that loves you, that's why love songs never go out of style.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um because when something that comes at you that changes you, you must respond.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think biblically, like the children went across the children of Israel went through the Red Sea and then they sang.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like God moved on their behalf, and they were like, we we we must sing something.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think so often we're hoping that it goes the other way around.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I sing it out, if I grit my teeth, and if I doubt it, then something's gonna happen.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: It might, but worship is responding, and God is already acting.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's good.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: You said a couple things there.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to go back and write down.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I think responding, uh, the idea of responding to your love kind of leads me to my next question.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're involved in a couple of different communities.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to just touch on them a minute.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: The story of your marriage conference.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit of the peak of that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even how you phrase some of that, I feel like leads to it really well.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Then, and then also maybe tell us a little bit about your beautiful family.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: See, my wife and I went through um kind of a like inner healing intensive in 2008, so like 11 years ago.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we always thought, like, yeah, you know, we're doing pretty well.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're, you know, we're not doing as bad as some others, uh, you know, in kind of a marriage context, and you basically have your parents and your friends to look at.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: But this after that, it was like a month-long journey, and then it was like, wow, okay, there's a lot to be uncovered.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: We came in with a whole suitcase in that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we just got started getting really intrigued on um marriage, which kind of led us into your own like personal journey and you know, therapy and uncovering.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: We've really been moved by um uh Dr.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Dan Alender.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, totally out of Seattle.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um my wife actually just left this morning for the certificate program that they wrote.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's so awesome!
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, how our connection, our relationship is impacted by our own story.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much to be uncovered there, and so that's just been really intriguing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: We also um we're hosting that conference with two other couples.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Adam Young runs a podcast called The Place We Find Ourselves.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he's out of Fort Collins, so we've connected with them and another therapist in town, Sam Jolman and his wife Amanda.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we're really like trying to bring language and context and stay safe space to do the significant work of marriage work that's often just kind of left in the dark, or here's a book, read it, change your behavior, kind of more band-aids than transformation.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's really like kind of the goal or the thing we want to pursue.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, Megan and I have been married for 16 years now.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, congrats!
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have a new driver in the family.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my lands, no way.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Six children, uh, four biological, and two, the youngest two are adopted from Haiti.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So our oldest is 15, and our youngest is seven.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: We have three boys and three girls.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Nice and even.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's oh, that's so great.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited about this conference, and it sounds like it's the maybe the first of more to come.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the hope.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think it's amazing.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: I being a Dan Allener fan fan myself, and actually um going through his book.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: To be told?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, to be told.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Been going through that, and so but it's painful.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Admittedly, going through your story is not fun.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's powerful and much needed, but yeah, and I know not everyone's gonna sign up for it, but I think the more the stories get out of the transformation, and like what you said, instead of it just being the band-aid, the real soul work is being done, yeah, and people are coming on the other side transformed and changed.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, people are gonna want more of that.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's really disruptive, and you kind of have to enter when you're reppy.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's the it's like you it's kind of hard to fake it.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's the one caveat.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think he's you know, he says, You've probably heard it so much, but I repeat it like, yeah, it sounds all nice and tidy from a 30,000-foot view, but to really get down in the weeds of the death and resurrection possibilities that are woven into your own story, like that takes some um some work.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: It does, it does, yeah, yeah, it really does, especially in the editing process.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's the one that I'm not a fan of because it goes from you, I you working, you acknowledging it, and you, you know, you your process, and then you have to take it out there and kind of put it in front of people to examine.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, yeah.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I I can say getting to the other side of some pieces of my story, it's worth it, and it's so good.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you're doing it with the idea of specifically inviting couples to come and do this um dance and grow their marriage.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's fantastic.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And along those lines, another thing, I mean, I love it that you've identified yourself as a seven because a seven does all the things, and that's that's why we love them.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: But you also have a co-write community, and there's even a conference coming up for that as well.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit what that looks like.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: You you obviously participate in a lot of co-writing, and there's been a lot of that through your years, starting in Desperation Band and everything.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: But what's your goal and vision for that?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is our fifth year doing it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a retreat for songwriters, and just a lot of people that are creative, maybe are creative in their context and have put some things out.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea of collaborating, like, you know, maybe sounds fun on a whim, but to be like, hey, we're gonna meet at 10 o'clock on Tuesday, we'll be creative, like haunting, and what if it doesn't work?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And do we just waste four hours?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I hold that as a value?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it is just like create it, it's inviting people to a space, um inviting them to uh unpack some of their and name some of their truest desires and bless them and go into the room with uh hope and possibility, and that that we could serve one another in that place.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the beautiful thing is I've written some uh you write things with other people that you would never write on your own.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that and then we sh we play, we go to a little venue and we do a showcase at the end of what of what we did.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's awesome!
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and you're just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that two and a half days ago none of this existed, and that is incredibly powerful.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that sounds really powerful.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like 50, 50 writers, so it's not a huge group.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you got to keep that manageable.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine you write with someone, you connect with the like you don't forget, like you're right.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: You just like wow.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: That would be a bond, unlike anything else.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, because you're just you're pouring out your soul together and kind of you know, creating that union of creativity and gifting and really Holy Spirit inspiration, too.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's all of that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's really awesome.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: What an what an amazing thing.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm like ready to do all the things there too.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's awesome.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I have loved every minute of this, and I know that um my friends are gonna want to download the album.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, what would you tell those listening that um you hope they experience as they listen to this new music?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I keep coming back.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Alaners in a marriage conference said the the soul is a continent to be explored.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I do.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he said in an example from his own marriage was uh we were married in Philadelphia, and he said, in 40 whatever years, however long they've been married, he's like, Perhaps I have crossed the border into Iowa of my wife's heart.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's so good, yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh man, nobody's saying this, nobody says this, right?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, like there's just it's limitless, it's powerful, it's it's so complex and varied and beautiful.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when I want when I hear or what I want people to hear is the acknowledgement of that for themselves, like this is music and words on your behalf, like for your soundtrack into um your holy place, which is a uh beautiful creation.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that's what people are gonna experience.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know I sure have, and I've really appreciated getting to just hear that and you you sharing your gifts because I know there is a sacrifice in that and this and um vulnerability and all the things involved with it, but you've done it and it's beautiful, and I can't wait for others to hear it.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I sure do appreciate Jared's music and his thoughtful heart.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Really, his new album is one of a kind, and I know the whole landscape is something you will want to download today.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you click the share button and send this episode on to all your friends.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't yet joined Simply Wholehearted on Instagram, then hop on over to join the Enneagram conversation and be inspired to live your best wholehearted life.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And while you're checking out the show notes, would you leave a five-star rating on iTunes or your favorite podcast app so others know that they are welcome here and what to expect in our conversations.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Next Monday's episode is gonna be with Amy Carroll, a Proverbs 31 speaker and author.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: She's full of wisdom, and she's taught us in the past about breaking up with perfect.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And now she's gonna teach us how to exhale, to lose who you're not, love who you are, and to live your one life well.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was a fantastic conversation that I know you will enjoy.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: So until next week, let's invite others to join us as we pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.