Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Is Hollywood Dead? With Producer Patrick Caligiuri

Transcript

Is Hollywood Dead? With Producer Patrick Caligiuri · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We all like to think we've got a good eye
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: for a winning move, but when it comes to property,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: it's about seeing the bigger picture. More space, a shorter commute,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: somewhere near the sea. On daft.ie, you can explore standout
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: homes for sale across South Dublin, from Ranelagh to Rathfarnham,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Stillorgan to Sandy Cove. When you're ready for the next chapter,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: start with Ireland's number one property platform, daft.ie.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald. Has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Show to know.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: She talks Hollywood tales, her real life, Mr. Segment, Serial Data,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicted.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: listen up.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Woof, woof. Hannah McDonald.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Juicy Scoop.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Thank you to everybody
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: who came to my shows this weekend. This shirt is
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: actually from a Juicy Scooper in Houston. Made me this
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: cute shirt, but I love meeting you all. And Minneapolis,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: you are up next. Chris Frangiole and I are coming
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: October 18th to the Fillmore Minneapolis Theater. And again, the
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: meet and greet will be before that. And then we
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: are off to the Vic Theater in Chicago. Chicago means
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: so much to me. It's where my parents had their
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: first date at the Drake Hotel. I love it. I'm
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: so excited. And Chris and I will be there October 19th.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Everything is at heathermcdolland.net. And I hope to see you there.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I just had some thoughts. This is a story from
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: last week, but It's about the Christine Cavallari, who's like 37, 38,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: breaking up with her hot Montana boys TikTok sensation, Mark.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: And he was only 24. And, you know, it's been
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: conversation for a while. She shared really honest thoughts on
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: her podcast, like straight from her heart that he had
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: to live more of a life and that there really
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: was nothing bad that happened, just that she feels like
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  Speaker 2: You know, that's what has to be done. And why
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  Speaker 2: not do it now than when they, you know, get
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to a place that's bad? He, you know, TMZ reported
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  Speaker 2: he has nothing but love for Kristen. So anyway, I
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  Speaker 2: have a different thought. When I first discussed it, I
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, you know, that's the case. You're 37, 38.
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  Speaker 2: You had kids relatively young. Would you even want to
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: like start a whole new family as a woman in your,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: you know, you could still get pregnant, you know, in
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  Speaker 2: your late 30s and early 40s, but is that something
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: that you would want? Is he ready for that? Do
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: you want to sign up for that? Or was this
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: just like a really fun time where you just had
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a blast and just got to be with a hot
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: ass guy that treated you nicely? All that is probably true.
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  Speaker 2: But there's this other part of me that's like, No
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  Speaker 2: offense to Mark, but he's only 24.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Is he setting the world on fire? Does he have
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  Speaker 2: some app that's going to make a million, billion dollars?
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  Speaker 2: Is he still doing the TikTok dances? I mean, I'm
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  Speaker 2: just saying maybe she was like, I'm doing you a favor,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: but I'm doing myself a favor. And I think no
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: matter what the age is, you can have a great
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: relationship with someone, whether you're a man or a woman.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and say, like, I just don't know that.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I think I could do better. I think I could
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: do better. And this is being a little harsh, but
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  Speaker 2: that's what Juicy Scoop is about, because I'm just giving
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  Speaker 2: my opinion. And she's so attractive and she's, you know,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: really talented in her fashion and everything. She's not going anywhere.
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  Speaker 2: She's really, you know, you know, she's really relatable.
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  Speaker 3: All of it.
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  Speaker 2: And I just wonder if maybe, you know, maybe she
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  Speaker 2: was like, Hey, I would like to go for someone
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  Speaker 2: that's more my age or even older that can really
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  Speaker 2: like elevate my lifestyle. And this was really fun. And
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: because to me, um, I think it would be great.
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  Speaker 2: Like if he was my son, I would be like,
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  Speaker 2: oh my God, nail Kristen Cavallari down. Stop doing the
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  Speaker 2: TikTok dances with your hot friends. Get with her. Let her,
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  Speaker 2: just like we see women get with a guy and
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: then the guy funnels money into like a business so
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: they can have like a candle store or whatever. Get
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: her to maybe get you a business going. You're with,
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  Speaker 2: she's great, you know? I don't know. I don't think
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  Speaker 2: as a mom I would ever be like very overly
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  Speaker 2: upset if my 20-something sons, which I have, went for
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  Speaker 2: someone who was older. I wouldn't be like, but you
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  Speaker 2: won't have your own biological child. I don't know. I
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  Speaker 2: don't think I'd care. I just think that's just something
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  Speaker 2: I was thinking about. I don't want to hear your
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  Speaker 2: opinion on it because I think it's kind of a
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: take no one has said. So that's my take on it.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And I just had to share it. Okay. Lana Del Rey.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: People are very surprised. She met this guy. He does
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: tours for people that want to see alligators or something
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  Speaker 2: in the Louisiana swampland. I don't know. I love Lana
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  Speaker 2: Del Rey. He was engaged to someone for like 12 years.
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  Speaker 2: And that girl is like, OK, good for you, Lana.
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  Speaker 2: I don't really care. And he's really cute, but he's
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  Speaker 2: like 48. And he had some other job before, but
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  Speaker 2: he was like, I just really love giving these tours
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: about alligators or whatever. And again, like they met and
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: sometimes people just are like, I know this is not
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: what people think that I should be with, but this
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: is what makes me happy. So good for you. And
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I do think he'll still love you when you're no
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: longer young and beautiful. I mean, if he's into alligators,
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  Speaker 2: you don't need to worry about what you might look
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  Speaker 2: when you're 90, girl.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. There's some drama going
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: on with our girl, Mary. Mary, the former pastor of
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: her own church, married her step-grandfather. I one time said stepfather.
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  Speaker 2: It is the step-grandfather. So her mom's mom had a
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  Speaker 2: second husband. So she knew that man as her step-grandfather.
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  Speaker 2: that grandmother who ran the church died. And then she
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  Speaker 2: was supposedly chosen by the grandmother to marry her husband,
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  Speaker 2: her step-grandfather, and carry on the church. She never really
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: mentions the church in this season. There's been a lot
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: that was revealed by Monica, who used to be on
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  Speaker 2: the show, and other people about that she really didn't
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: treat her congregation very well, audio tapes and stuff where
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: she was chewing them out. I went to the church.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It looked like it was somewhat abandoned. Now she and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: her husband, also her step-grandfather and father of a child
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  Speaker 2: who is like 20, they are suing the people who
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  Speaker 2: ran the finances for their church. They're saying they misappropriated funds.
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  Speaker 2: They stole whatever. And they are suing for like $ 6. 3 million.
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  Speaker 2: How much money did this church take in? And was
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  Speaker 2: she a pastor that then became a businesswoman or was
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: she a businesswoman who then used her business sense to
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  Speaker 2: become a pastor? I don't know. It's always been shady.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe this is a way to make us think that
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  Speaker 2: she and her husband are in fact the victims of
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: a fraudulent church situation. She is becoming funnier and more
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  Speaker 2: likable on the show. They go on a trip to Milwaukee.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And this was from Queens of Bravo put this together
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: where she said, I love Milwaukee. It makes me think
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: about my dad. He was from Milwaukee. He actually used
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: to live one street away from Jeffrey Dahmer. It's stuff
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  Speaker 2: like this. Like they say this weird stuff and then
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  Speaker 2: that the producers like highlight it is what makes Salt
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Lake just kind of weird and campy. And, you know,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: even though it had dark times because Jen Shaw is
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: doing nine years in prison for fraud and now she
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: has this. I don't know. This just kind of made
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  Speaker 2: me laugh. She goes on to say every time he
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: would go to work, he would smell a smell. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: he always said, where's that smell coming from? And a
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: week later, they arrested Jeffrey Dahl. So I like Juicy
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Scoop history being thrown into housewives' lives. You know, we
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: love it. So good for her. Speaking of Utah, Sister
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Wives is on. There's, I think, four episodes out. I've
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: watched the first three. And like I said, I'll never
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: stop watching this boring-ass show. Because to me, it's not boring.
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  Speaker 2: It's not. And Cody and his three wives... He only
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: has one left, Robin. And she's like, and I'm the
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: idiot that's still here. I still think that maybe we
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: could come back together. Anyway, what was really kind of
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: interesting in these previous episodes is that Janelle, whose wife
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  Speaker 2: number two. Oh, first of all, I didn't know that
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Cody had all three wives, Mary, Janelle, and Christine. They
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: were a foursome, a polygamous foursome. before anybody had a baby.
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  Speaker 2: And then they all just started having their babies at
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: the same time. I thought I was under the impression
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: that Mary already had a baby before they took on
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: another wife. No, they all just had their babies together.
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  Speaker 2: So as you know, Christine is often married. I had
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: her on the show. It was a great interview. But
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Chanel was never legally married in the church or anything.
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  Speaker 2: So she has to go. It was just so weird.
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  Speaker 2: They have to go to like their old church and
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  Speaker 2: ask the elders to give them a release so that
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  Speaker 2: they're not tied forever in celestial heaven. I mean, you've
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: been on a reality show for 17 years. You basically
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: say you don't really go to any kind of church anymore,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: but then you still need to get like this piece
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: of paper from some older person in this like church
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: that you don't go to. It's so strange. But anyway,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: she's like, Janelle says, you know, I still feel like
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: plural marriage works for me and I wouldn't be opposed
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to doing it again. I liked having Cody come by
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and then being gone for three days. I liked I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: didn't have to deal with his weird allergies and his
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: weird food and his weird energy. But I did still
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: like having a husband and having him come around. But
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: then once Robin came, he just really stopped coming around.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And then really the resentment started because she felt not
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: only was he not giving her any attention, but he
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: wasn't bothering to give the kids any attention with COVID
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: and everything. So he still comes off like a victim.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: He's like, I'm still so hurt. It's like a knife
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: in my kidney. So he's still really upset. But, um,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: The thing that really bothered me is that Janelle and
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: her daughter, who is like pregnant or whatever, they all
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: have a couple grandkids. She and Christine have a couple grandkids.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: But Janelle goes, well, we looked at this really interesting
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: land in Montana. And I'm like, wow, we could still
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: build our thing here that I wanted at Coyote Pass,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: which they never built. I'm like, girl, when– No, I'm
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: not letting you buy this land.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Do you not understand? Are you a contractor? Are you
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: an electrician? This is why it never worked. You're out
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it's 40 acres. But
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: do you know what it takes to build like a
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: running home where you can eat and drink and have
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: showers and watch TV? And like, do you know how
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: long that would take? These kids that are little are
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: going to be in college by the time you finish
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: building this community. Goodbye to Coyote Pass. Get a cute condo.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Go on... you know, what is it? There's a dating
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: site for people of a certain age. It's like, I
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: don't know, silver love or something. Go do that. Go
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: do that. However, I'm watching The Bachelorette and it definitely
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: makes me want to stay married longer. I don't really,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not really the golden bachelorette. I'm not really into those,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: those guys. So I'm just like, ugh. Anyway, so here
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: we go with that. So it is, it's still, it's
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: still giving. It's still a lot of scenes that you're
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: just watching just very, like, simple people have, like, a
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: birthday party with paper plates. And I don't know. There's
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: some weird comforting part to it. There was a big controversy, too,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: because one of their children, Janelle's oldest son, has his–
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I won't say his name because he doesn't want to
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: be public, but people that watch the show know. He
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: left the TV show a while ago, did not want–
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: them to mention his name so they talk about the
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: bride and groom and did not want the wedding on
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the show and did not want anyone to film anything.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And so that was kind of an interesting thing that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: we see because then Cody says, oh, we were not,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: you know, we weren't sat in a good place at
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the wedding. We were shunned at my own son's wedding because,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: you know, the family's all splitting. And then people that
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: really follow all this stuff had photos from the wedding
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: and you could see that Cody and Robin were like
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: second or third row. And, you know, I mean, the guy,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: technically the kid has three moms, right? So he has
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: his own and then he has the one that he
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: really likes, Christine, and then he has the one that's
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: been around from the beginning, Mary, but who knows how
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: they feel about her. And then obviously they all think
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: that Robin kind of took the dad from them. So, yeah,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: it's weird.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: It's weird.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: But still fascinating. Still fascinating. And I think it's fascinating
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: because this is from the New York Post. These two
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: cute twins said, my twin sister and I want to
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: share a boyfriend and live as a throuple. So I
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: thought about Janelle where she was like, yeah, I guess
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: if you take jealousy out of it, jealousy in the
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: sense like I don't care that someone else is sleeping
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: with my husband and that my husband might also love
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: this other woman. I don't really care, but I still
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: kind of want a guy around, but I want this
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: independence without being 100% single mom. So, you know, this
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: show has gone on forever. It was an interesting experiment
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: for us to watch polygamy play out on TV, on TLC.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a success for them. But the whole thruple thing,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and especially if you really are like sisters, is an
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: interesting concept for today. And that's what is kind of fascinating. Oh,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I also thought this was like awful. This is from InTouch.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Matt LeBlanc has friends co-stars worried these days. And it's
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: a photo of him. And he still looks really cute.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: He has gray hair. He's put on a few LBs.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: The guy.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: is like pushing 60. Like, what do you guys want?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. He looks like a cute dad that should
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: be going to golf and have a cigar after. Give
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the guy a break. All right, you guys, now I
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: have a very, very juicy interview. I know a lot
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: of people ask what is going on in Hollywood, especially
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: in light of the P. Diddy stuff. But also what's
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: going on with studios, streamers, we're seeing mergers, we're seeing
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: all this stuff. And we get all the inside scoop
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: from a producer that's really tracking it all. So we're
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: going to have that right now. Again, just want to
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: remind you guys, HeatherMcDonald.net is where you're going to buy
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: the tickets. So if you see them in your town,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: go to HeatherMcDonald.net, get those tickets. I've got Chicago, Minneapolis, Irvine,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: New York, D.C., and New Jersey all coming up, all
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: at HeatherMcDonald.net. And that's also where you join the Patreon,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: which everyone loves, and that's where you get the real
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: juicy scoop. Now for Patrick, the producer.
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: is so organised, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can buy
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: in-store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or free
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: click and collect.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So easy.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll love.
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: filed against me.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: what would you do if it was given back?
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Where did that need come from, where you thought that
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: started crying.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: happens next.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, the Juicy Scoop
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: is always about getting the juice. And I came across
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: this creator, but he's also a TV producer, and he
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: is giving us real hardcore scoop about what is really
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: going on in Hollywood and society. Let's get into it.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Juicy Scoop, Patrick Caligiuri. And yes, welcome to
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Juicy Scoop.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. My wife is a big fan.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: In fact, when I mentioned that I was coming down
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: to L.A. and I was like, I'm going to go
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: meet with Heather McDonald on the Juicy Scoop. She's like, wait,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: who are you again? You're not my husband. Like there's
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: what is happening. How are you? How am I here?
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: But I'm here and I'm glad.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Tell her. Where do you live?
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I live in San Jose. But I lived in L.A.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: for 16 years. I worked in the industry. But during
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: the pandemic, we decided to kind of pick up and
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: move up north because things were becoming more remote. And
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: it's only a four-hour drive to get down to L.A.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: But we love the Redwoods. We love the Bay Area.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: We kind of like the vibe up there. And my
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: wife works in tech, so it made more sense to
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: move up there.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool. So what kind of jobs did you have
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: before you left, before the pandemic? What was your main
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: source of doing work?
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: I worked in unscripted programming. I've been a producer on
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of reality or unscripted shows. I've worked on
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: The Amazing Race, Big Brother, Naked and Afraid, American Idol,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: American Ninja Warrior. Bering Sea Gold, Swamp People. I could
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: go on The Quest on Disney +. Wow.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So like really that's like the biggest reality shows ever.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: When you say you worked on like Amazing Race, would
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: you travel with them?
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: I was a field producer. That was actually one of
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: my first unscripted shows that I worked on. My first
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: unscripted show was actually Kid Nation. I'm sure you've heard
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: of that one.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: What was that about?
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: That was like the Lord of the Rings. the Flies
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: reality show.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I just saw a TikTok that I mentioned,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I think, on my Patreon that I thought was so interesting.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: It was a short where they took– 10 kids, 10
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: boys around between 10 and 11 and gave them a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: home with cameras hidden and said, you know, here's food
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and everything and watched how they became. And in a
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: week they became Lord of the Flies. The place was trashed.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: There was a king that was, you know, they made
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: one guy the king and like, it was crazy. And
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: then when they did it with girls, it was right
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: when they started, the girls all started working together. They
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: made chore lists. They started cooking together. And they put
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: all their beds together. But by midweek, they had broken
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: into two different groups, just like Real Housewives. Just like
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Real Housewives where Andy stands in the middle and there's
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: two groups. And I was like, wow, that is just–
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I just find that stuff fascinating. And that's why I
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: think I love reality shows because I always loved like
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: sociology classes and stuff. And that really is what reality
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: shows are.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: And you want to know something that's really interesting from
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: the shows that I worked on talking about male-female dynamics?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Is when on most reality shows that are competition shows,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: when males form an alliance, they'll keep that alliance for months.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: They could be in an alliance for three months and
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: take it to the end of the show. When women
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: form an alliance, they will turn on each other within
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: a week, almost guaranteed.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: And you know what? I say that all, I'm like,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: it's stuff like that.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: It's fascinating.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: It's stuff like that where I'm like, that's why we're
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: not further along. There's little, there's things like that. There's jealousy. There's,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I mean- Even when I look at like, you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden I have, you know, I have
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: such great support from women. But then the haters are
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the same demographic as the people that love me.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: They hate me just as strong.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: They hate you because they ain't you.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: But it's very, you know, it's very interesting. I'm like, wow.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: You know, like and I think about, you know, the
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: generation that I came from, which was the mean girls
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: and stuff and that that. hasn't unfortunately really changed, but
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: they made reality shows out of it that we love
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to watch.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: But on the flip side, I'm going to flip the
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: script on it, on Naked and Afraid, who's tougher as
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: a survivalist? The women.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Interesting. My husband loves that show. Yeah.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: The men are the first to start bitching about bug
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: bites and being too hot and being uncomfortable. And they also,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: they always like to show off on the show and
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: survival is about keeping your energy intact. So, you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: they're chopping down trees and then the men are always
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: the first to tap out and the women just kind
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: of embrace the suck. And I've noticed as a producer,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I was like, women are better survivalists than men.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: As a personal observation.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Personally, me, no. When they do those shows, like Amazing
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Race and stuff, and clearly they're supposed to, like, not
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: ask for your help, ask for directions, whatever. When do you, like,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: step in in those situations, whether it's Survivor or Alone
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: and Afraid or Amazing Race?
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Usually a point of danger if somebody is going to
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: get significantly hurt. We had one instance on the Amazing Race,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: I think it was season 15, where the couple needed
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: to go down a water slide. And it was a
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: big Amazing Race moment because the female contestant didn't want
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: to go. And it was one of the, it was
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: at the Atlantis resort in Dubai.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Where it's like the depth.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: I hate those. It's like a 70 foot water slide.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I don't like the ones where you're on a tube. Right.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: So this was the straight down one. And literally it was,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: they were the second to last to being eliminated. So
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: the boyfriend was freaking out.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Like we've got to do this.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: And he tried to grab her and tried to force
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: her down the water slide. So that was when, perfect example,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: when a producer was like, you can't do that. Stop
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: right there.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: So what happened to them?
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: So they because she wouldn't go down. The other team
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: did it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Went through and that team got eliminated. They call it
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: the million dollar water slide.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Did they couple stay together?
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I don't think they're together, to be honest. They were
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: newly dating at the time.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I remember early on in Amazing Race, there was a couple.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: They're kind of famous because I think they did other things.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And they were like an L.A. couple that like I
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: want to say like had tanning salons or beauty something. And,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: you know, he was so like yelling at her and
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the fighting to try to get through. I was like, oh,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: my God, never in a million years. Not for– a
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: billion dollars would I want to do Amazing Race because
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: even my boys would be like, oh my God, dad.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Mom would be like, forget it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: I don't care.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: I want to go home.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: You're being mean. Like I could never do it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: Well, it's always funny because in the casting reels for
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: that show, it's always couples that are like, you know,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: our marriage is in shambles. We're separated. But we think
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: like something like this is really going to bring us together,
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: doing a race around the world, doing these challenges. And
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: you know that the producers are just like, you're perfect. Yes.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Come on the show, you know?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: And as producers, now we see. It's like when someone
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't get asked back to Real Housewives or whatever, they
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: really shouldn't see it as a compliment to being mentally well.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Because if you get asked to come one season and
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: not back, it means because you're too normal. And you
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: might still like your husband. I don't know.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: It always seems like the people that are down to
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: earth and get it are just like, you're not fun
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: to play with. Yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: We can't make you.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: You don't lose your shit. Are you going to therapy now?
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: That's not going to work for us.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: So you worked on all those things. And then when
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and then you said you moved to northern California, San
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Jose area.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I was still working in the industry, though. OK, so.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: So 2020, 2021, business was still going. Business was booming.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: OK.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: And I was on a project through 2022. I was
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: doing a survival show for Roku called Fight to Survive. OK.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And was hoping for that show to get picked up
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: a second season. But then all of a sudden work
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: just stopped like like. And throughout my entire career, and
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I've worked in television for 20 years, I've maybe gone
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: two months as the longest time ever between projects. I
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: went a year and three months.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And what was your background prior to being hired? Did
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: you go to film school? What's your story?
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: So my story is I went to Syracuse University. I'm
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: from the East Coast originally. I went to the Newhouse School,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: a very popular communication school. I moved out to L.A.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I thought I was going to be a screenwriter. I
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: thought I was going to write for sitcoms, but when
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: I came out in 2005, sitcoms weren't big anymore. But
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: when I was in high school, it was Seidenfeld and
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Mad About You and Friends. And so I thought that
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: was the big thing. But when I moved out here,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Unscripted was in its boom period. Big Brother was coming out.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Survivor was huge. And when I ended up on Race,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: because I'm a little bit of an adventurist at heart too,
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you can travel the world and do these
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: things and you're not shooting in a soundstage. And all
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: of a sudden I realized I was combining two passions,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: which is, you know, travel, adventure, and storytelling, which are
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: two of my favorite things. And so that's when I
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: really kind of started going down these like discovery and
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: National Geographic niche because it was like, oh, I'm going
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: to go film in Greenland for two months and like
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: things that I would love to do on my own.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: And it became sort of this like passion work. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I really kind of in Unscripted, you kind of get
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: a niche, really. Like there's people that work at Bravo
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: and do Bravo shows. There are people that do ghost
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: hunting shows and bigfoot chasing shows. And I really kind
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: of got this like adventure off the grid kind of
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: international niche, which I loved. I'm like, if I'm that guy, I,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm doing fine. And then survival really kind
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: of started folding into that. So, you know, if it
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: came to like naked people in the jungle, like Patrick's
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: your guy, you.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Know, he'll And you mentioned you're married. I am. Where
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: did that– how does that work if you're in a
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: romantic relationship and you have to take off for months
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: on end?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: You know, it's– I think sometimes my wife appreciates it
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: to just like get lost for two months.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: You know, it was always kind of a balancing act.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: And when I was first married, my wife fortunately doesn't
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: work in entertainment. So that's kind of a blessing and
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: a curse. Sometimes she understands it. Sometimes she doesn't get it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: But, you know, we've learned to work. She does PR
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: and she actually calls me her biggest liability. She's terrified
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: that I'm doing these type of shows without like a publicist.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: She's like, you really got to be careful. But but,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: you know, what helped was during the pandemic, when things
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: started becoming more remote, we ended up starting to do
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: pre-production from home. I was doing it from my living room.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I was doing three months at home. I would always
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: go on location anyway for two months at a time.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: And two months is really like okay, you know, as
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: long as you're doing it just once a year. And
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: then post-production would take up the remainder of the year
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: after that. And I could do that from home through
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: the pandemic because they were now doing servers where as
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: long as the server was at the production company, I
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: could log into my laptop and edit from my laptop
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: on Avid from the server that's in Burbank. Okay.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: So you're doing that in 21. Mm-hmm. And then when
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: does this when does it really stop with the strike
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: or like what happens here?
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: So to just kind of give you a timeline. So
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: I wrapped my production of my show that I was
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: show running, which is called Fight to Survive. And that
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: finished up. We got the last episodes out the door
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: in March 2023.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: Usually also when you've wrapped up one of these productions,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: you've had your nose to the grindstone for like months,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: you know, especially you're trying to make decisions through the
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: entire time you're playing whack-a-mole. That's what you do as
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: a producer.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: And so you don't mind being like, I just need
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: to like check out for four weeks, you know, and
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: then we'll slowly get back into it. So that's pretty common,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: you know, especially amongst producers because you're just, you just
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: need a break and so you get burned out. Otherwise,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: you know, it's all about Mental health too. So when
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: I started getting back into it, now it's like April.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: And April and early spring or late spring is the
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: time when most productions are starting up. But we knew
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: the strikes were coming. So this had been in discussion
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: since earlier part of 2023. We knew they were coming.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: And I was around for the 07-08 strikes where the
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: WJ– WGA went on strike and reality had this like
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: free-for-all boom. It was like crazy period. Everything kind of
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: went in overdrive. So a lot of us in Unscripted,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: we were kind of like– we work in conjunction with
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: the Writers Guild. So like we support the writers. We
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: support their causes. We advocate for them. But at the
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: same time, we're like, OK, we're going to pick up
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: the slack when they do start striking. But the strike
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: came and then nothing happened. And we're like, okay, that's odd. Oh,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: maybe it's because the actors are about to strike and
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: they're waiting to see what happens here. The actors go
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: on strike. Still, nothing happened. And everybody started calling their
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: agents and there's just not work to be around. But
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: what's interesting is in our industry, everybody first started internalizing it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: They start looking inward. They start saying, well, did I,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: did I, why am I not getting work? Did I
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: piss off somebody? Is there a reputation that I have
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: around town? Is somebody bad mouthing me?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: So that's so true.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: A lot of us started like, and you don't want
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: to ever admit that you're out of work because that's also,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: you know, you don't want to damage your brand and
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: be like undesirable. And that's kind of one of those things.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: And especially in Hollywood where it's like, oh, you're not working. Yeah.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Something's wrong with you. Right. So nobody talks about it.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: And then it wasn't until I started picking up the
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: phone and talking to other executive producers, people that were
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: my mentors, people who brought me into the industry. And
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: it started sounding like, wait, you're not working? Wait, you're
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the person that's always working. You're the person that's always
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: giving me jobs. And then I'm hearing from executives, again,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: that have been my bosses when I was like a
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: production assistant or an AP. And they're saying, yeah, I'm
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: doing DoorDash right now. I'm selling my grandmother's inherited jewelry
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: so I can make ends meet. I'm going to have
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: to go into my kids' college funds next because I
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: cannot work. And my husband also works in the industry,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: especially people that were married where both people worked in
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: the industry. They started getting hurt really bad. And then
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of optimism in our industry, too, where
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, well, you know, it's going to be
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: the top of 24. You know, it's just the industry
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: is just trying to reset itself after the strikes and
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: the top of 24 comes. And then people start talking about, well,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: it survived to 25. But the more I started kind
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: of looking into it, I started realizing the patterns. And
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this is not adding up. This isn't just
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: like a fluke thing that's happening to our industry. There's
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: a major change going on. And you're not hearing anything
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: from the studios. They're being completely tight-lipped. But it's starting
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: to dawn on us more and more that they don't
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: seem to know when this is going to rebound either.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: And I think it all kind of came to a
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: head one day. is because while you're going through this
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: for not working for like a year and internalizing it
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: and thinking of it, because we got into this industry
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: because we love it. We love what we do. Um,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: we're kind of blessed in that, that regard, but you
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: kind of start going through the grieving process. And with that,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: you get depression, you get angry. And I was kind
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: of going through this process and I didn't realize I
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: was actually kind of grieving my career, uh, because you strive.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: And I started out as a production assistant and work
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: my way up all the way to executive producer. So
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: I've done every job and, you know, you really have
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: to claw your way to get through this industry. You, you, you, it's,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: you're facing so many headwinds. So like to get to
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: the top and then finally there's like, it plateaus, um,
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: was kind of a, a little hit to the ego,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: I would say. But eventually, um, it all kind of
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: came to a head. I sat in my car, I
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: was going to go hiking. Like I was going to
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: try to like, I was trying to do more exercise
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: and get those endorphins going to feel happy again. And
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: it started downpouring and I was just like, fuck it.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: And I whipped my phone out and I just kind
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: of ranted about everything that was going on. I was like,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I have not been in, I have been out of work. I,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: this industry has slowed down. Um, you know, streaming is
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: not paying anybody. Like the industry is not bouncing back. And,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: I hit send and that.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: And where did you originally post that?
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: I originally posted it on TikTok. Oh, okay. And I
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: had a little bit of a following on TikTok because
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: I talked about unscripted TV and like how you make
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: it and kind of behind the scenes stuff. So I
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: had a little bit of a following there. But once
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: I posted that- It just went viral within our industry.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: All of a sudden I'm getting messages from friends in
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Denver and they're like, why are you on our cinema
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: board in Denver? And everybody started realizing, and that was
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: the connection that I think a lot of the industry
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: made was, it's not just me. It's not, you know,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: I'm out of work too. And everybody started being more
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: vocal about it. And now we're in a stage where
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I think everybody's kind of realizing the state of the industry.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I was at the Radford lot yesterday and it was
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: a ghost town. You can see tumbleweeds going through the place.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: And I used to work on.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: The Radford lot because that's where the.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Big brother house. Yeah. And, you know, it's like Pee
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Wee's Big Adventure. You know, there's people in costumes and
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: there's mirrors being rolled out.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: There was not a single soul in any of the studio.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: And it was just eerie.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: So let's get into what is happening. What is your
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: theories and proof or whatever that you've been sharing? What
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: is happening? So....
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Every now and then, every industry has a transition point.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: And we've been lucky, if you kind of look at
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: television as a whole, nothing's really changed in the last
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: 40 years. Like maybe cable going into the mix was
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: the last time there was a big kind of big
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: splash shakeup in the industry. And so everybody's been kind
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: of used to the system. And then streaming came out,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: and streaming really just started disrupting the whole thing because
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: you had an advertising revenue model that worked great for
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: 70 years. But as Netflix's popularity grew, all the other
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: networks are looking at Netflix and saying, why isn't our
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: stock doing what Netflix is doing? So they're starting to
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: model Netflix's model. Again, not really kind of looking into–
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: What are the future implications of this or the consequences
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: of this? It's just Netflix is succeeding and we're failing.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: And then the pandemic came and all of a sudden
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: people are sitting down and they're watching their televisions and
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: everything goes into hyperdrive. Now everything has to happen. So Peacock,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Disney Plus, everything is forced into streaming. And there came
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: this boom period with it. Investors were like, this is
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: the new future. So money was pouring in. So there
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: was just production everywhere. That's like every soundstage was rented out.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: And it was this complete boom period. Then the pandemic ended.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: And then I think that's when people started realizing that
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: you can't keep a revenue stream going on just a
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: subscriber-based system. You need advertising revenue. It's not going to
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: sustain because eventually you run out of viewers or you
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: run out of people that keep subscribing. You eventually plateau.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: It's like an MLM.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone's already bought in.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Right. And you noticed it too. First, Netflix was what, $ 4. 99
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: a month when it first started? And then it's now $ 14. 99.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Now it's $ 22. And that's a reason because they were
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: losing money. And then you have on top of it,
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: there's so many kind of different wheels like playing into this.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: So then you have cable, which is everybody's cord cutting
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: at the same time. I don't need cable when I
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: could watch Netflix and streaming. Why do I want to
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: subscribe to this? So cable is becoming this albatross around
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: the traditional networks next. In fact, you've probably seen Warner
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Brothers Discovery before. just wrote off their cable channels as
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: a $ 9 billion loss.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think I saw your video about that, yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: And Paramount did it with their cable channels as a
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: $ 6 billion loss. So cable is holding these other companies back.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: So is it like cable is dead or?
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Cable is dead. Cable is dead. We had the wake.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: You know, you're throwing flowers in. They're not investing in
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: cable anymore. There's no new shows being put on cable anymore.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: Anything that's kind of on TV is either a former
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: success Has been on the air for multiple decades. Or
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: it's something that's so cheaply easy to produce. Like there's
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: now shows that are just police body cam footage because
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: that's public domain. And all you need to.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Do is do it. My older son just loves that.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Right. But it's also competing with YouTube, too.
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: But he's just like, I love body cam footage. I'm like, really?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that's just so interesting that, you know, what
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: someone gets hooked into.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: I'll watch back cracking videos for like 20 minutes on
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: TikTok or Instagram. I just can't stop watching it.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: And that's another perfect example is viewership. Eyes are drifting everywhere.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Nobody watches TV anymore.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: The other thing, and I saw you saying something about this,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: but I'll tell you, I've said it. Like, we've switched
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: our TV situation a few times, you know, and sometimes
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: when I'm just like in a hotel room I'm like
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: oh old fashioned TV like I turn it on and
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: I just I read oh these are where the channels
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: are and I I watch the commercial I don't know
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: there's something like comforting like I I feel that with
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: all of this it takes so many steps when you
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: look at like the Kardashians and I'm you know, of
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: course they're super successful, but the buzz around them that
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: the conversation is not what it was.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: When they were on E and there'd be a marathon
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: and you turn it on on a Saturday in 2011
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: and you just clean your house and you just hear
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: their voices and you just, whatever. Now it's like, all right,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: now let me turn on the TV. Now let me
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: go to the Hulu thing. Now let me go to search.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Now let me start writing K-A-R. It's just like then,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: or then when you want to go back to it,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: If somebody else like in your family went to it,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, hey, Mackenzie, let me show you. It's
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: something new. I'm like, no, it's Heather.
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: K-A.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: It's just like it's just.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Right. It's appointment viewing.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: You think that it's like more helpful, but it actually
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: is like a pain in the ass. And then I'm like,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: you know what? I guess I'll just look at my phone.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I've got to pay hundreds of dollars
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: a month for all these things. And I'm actually not
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: even watching that much TV anymore.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: And scrolling has become the new trend. channel surfing. We
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: don't just, like you said, we don't casually watch TV anymore.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: You don't turn it on and just, I wonder what's
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: going on. If I'm going to say, I wonder what,
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: I got nothing to do. I just instantly, my phone's
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: right here. And then I just start scrolling. And that's
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: what 170 million Americans are on TikTok. That's half the population.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: And probably even more so on Instagram. And so that
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: is directly competing with with television and film. So we're
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: talking about these changes, these industry changes. We've seen silent
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: films go to sound. We've seen television destroy radio.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: And then- Right, because radio used to be like people
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: talking and acting and doing stories.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: They used to make the sound effects and families used
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: to gather around the radio.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I know. And then here we are with podcasts, right?
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: But now I feel like podcasts, everyone has to put
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: it on YouTube too.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: And, I mean, I started doing that a few years ago,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: and I like it, but the whole point of doing
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a podcast was like, oh, isn't this great? You can
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: be ugly. And just to have a podcast. And now
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it's like, no, you've got to do the video element.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, so now you have that other
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: thing that you can watch, which is great.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: It's cool.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the people that like watching this as well
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: as listening. Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting. So like– right.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: So you were saying the orders of things. So then
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: we took over radio.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Now we're at television to internet is really the next transition.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: And with independent creators– so you got to remember also
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: just going back to unscripted. Unscripted is getting hurt the
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: most out of all of this.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Reality.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Reality. I call it unscripted because it's a little bit
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: more of a blanket term.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: Reality– Reality has this like connotations that you think of reality.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: Immediately people think of Housewives shows.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: But like I'm like reality is technically all those Discovery shows.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: The Deadliest Catch. That's reality too. And I think– so
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I like to say unscripted because that's just sort of
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: the broad umbrella for all of it. And because that
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: was a more economical version of TV. Right. Yeah.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Because it wasn't union. It wasn't union actors. Nope. And
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: the producers were producers, not Writers Guild.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Right. Exactly. And that actually was part of the 07-08
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: strike where the red line that studios weren't going to cross,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: they wanted to make unscripted producers be considered part of
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: the WGA. Studios were like, no go. That's not gonna happen.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: But quintessentially, yes, we are writers. We are content creators.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: We're putting the story together in a much harder fashion
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: because we don't get to write what we want. We
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: have to like take the pieces. We're building Lego sets
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: of story. And so, gee, I kind of lost my
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: train of thought.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: No, no, you were saying how things change. You said
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: how scripted is the one that's unscripted is doing the worst.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Right. So as people started going towards social media, This
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: it's even cheaper. You know, it's it's you have content
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: creators that are drawing more of an audience. I mean,
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: you have people who are doing makeup tutorials that are
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: getting a better audience than any unscripted show on cable
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: right now. And that's the truth of the matter. And
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: look at their production value of these things versus an
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: unscripted show is still 200, 300 K an episode.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: You know, and that's cheap or was cheap. I don't
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: know what's cheap anymore, you know, as opposed to somebody
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: who's in their own bedroom, you know, putting up a
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: video that's two minutes long, three minutes long.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I also just think there's something when you're just used
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: to a certain thing. It's like when we were so
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: used to hearing the live audience laughing in a sitcom,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: you know, from like, you know, I love Lucy to.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: you know, probably it started to kind of go away
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: at what, like 2004? Like How I Met Your Mother.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: And then it was like, oh my God, you know,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: this single camera is so much cooler, whether it was
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: 30 Rock.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: Or The Office.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: The Office.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Like, oh my gosh, this is, you know, which was
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: obviously a mockery of like a reality show. But, and
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: so then it was like, oh, like when I was
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: pitching shows, it was like, well, definitely you don't want
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: you know, that cornball laughing and walking in audience clapping,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: like the fawn shows up and, and, but then when
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: you'd pitch it, someone would say, but they actually are
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: buying three camera, which is the live audience. So adjust
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: your pitch to that. You know, they want that back.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: And I was always like, Hey, whatever, I'll do whatever.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I'll be cornball mom. I'll do whatever, you know, but
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I wasn't watching those shows anymore. Like I wasn't enjoying
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: the live sitcoms. situation anymore. And where is that? What
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: is going on with live sitcom and studio audience stuff?
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: It's interesting because you do see TV go in cycles.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: You see game shows become popular, then they become unpopular,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: then they become popular back. There's some economists who think
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: that actually attributes to the way the economy is going,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: that when times are bad and we're in a recession
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: or a depression, that more fantasy shows like you'll see
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Game of Thrones really became popular in like 2008 you
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: know and so you actually see this cycle where there's
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: more like fantasy shows but then like when the economy
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: is good you get more realistic shows that's when true
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: crime starts coming back and like people want to know
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: about more real things that are happening so it's interesting
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: but you have these cycles and even reality I think
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: is you know it's a genre mostly that's 20 years
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: old at this point it's running its course which is
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: also probably a reason why It's kind of going out
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: the way. But what you are going to see, so
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: getting to your point about live shows, live is what's
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: going to be keeping broadcast networks still keep their heart ticking.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Because right now, sports, award shows, things that you can
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: tune into that you can't really put off to another
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: time are what people are going to be using those
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: networks for. So if there is like room for sitcoms
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: to be back, I would see him being actually lively,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: live performed. Like, do you remember when they did like
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: Grease Live?
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: And they did like they tried to do Rent Live.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: They did a bunch of those.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they did a bunch of actually.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: One of my. Why did those just stop then? Were
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: they not bad?
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: I think it was they were very expensive to produce.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: In fact, believe it or not, Grease Live was produced
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: by my best friend from kindergarten. He actually became a
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Broadway producer there. And he actually was the producer of
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Grease Live. But like, again, that was a show that
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: took up five or six sound stages on the Warner
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Brothers lot, took up most of the back lot to produce.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: That was just such an expensive endeavor. And right now,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of these studios, especially studios that have cable
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: channels attached to them, because you can't just turn cable off.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: You still have to like feed it into the system.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: They're hurting economically, which is why so much is not
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: being produced or greenlit right now.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: I remember there'd be once in a while there'd be
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: a sitcom that'd be like, we're going to do this
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: alive thing. And I don't really remember if those were
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: hits or not.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: I can't remember even like when they brought the Friends
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: reunion cast. I don't even know how well that did.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: But I don't think they've done a sitcom live, but
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I can see it being live.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I love that all this exists because when I
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: was coming up, it definitely felt like a gatekeeper kind
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: of a thing. I remember just joining SAG. You couldn't
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: get an agent unless you were in SAG, but you
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: couldn't get in SAG without having work that an agent
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: would have to get you.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Right. It's the catch-22. Yeah.
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: And that's why you, but you could pay people. You
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: could pay people that worked at SAG to make a
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: fake thing or whatever. There was a whole little thing
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: and you could pay someone $ 300 and now I'm on
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: a Bud Light commercial and now I'm finally in SAG,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: but I still have to pay the $ 1, 100 to get
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: into SAG. But then I could put SAG on my
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: resume and then I could get the agent and then
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: I had to get the agent to care enough to
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: send me out. And after about a year and a half,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: just like a boyfriend, they're kind of over you. Like
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: if you haven't made anything. And then it was always
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: just making me always feeling like you're not popular. Nobody
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: likes you. You know, you're not in the cool group
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: of the alternative comics or whatever for my thing. And so,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just loved being a writer and being
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: able to have more say and now just walking in
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and having it be up to some, you know, bitchy
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: girl or guy that's just like, and so, I mean,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I love that people have a more of an opportunity
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: to make money in this business. And so my question is,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't seem like a lot of the gatekeepers
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: are out of work. So what are they doing all day? Like,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: what are all the agents doing? What are all the
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: studio people doing? What are those people doing?
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: I think they're all checking off their calendars of how
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: many days they have left, to be perfectly honest. I mean,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: it's not to say that... there have been massive layoffs
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: that have been happening. There was Paramount got rid of
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: 25% of its workforce this summer. You're seeing massive layoffs.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: They just, a lot of the, especially unscripted departments at
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: like Fox, at NBC Universal, they're kind of cleaning house.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: So I think right now, a lot of people are
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: very nervous and it doesn't matter what side you're on,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: on the production side or if you're on the executive side.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: And I mean, it's also very sad because for 20 years,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it's been these other states have been, you know,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: so lucrative to do to to bring your production there
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: and luring people over. It was first Florida. Then it
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: was Georgia. Then it was, you know, everybody but California.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: And I remember when Arnold Schwarzenegger was running, that was
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: part of. the reason people were saying you should vote
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: for him because he's an actor. He's going to keep
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: the work here. I don't think that– I don't remember
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: what was going on during that time but it didn't
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: seem like it made much of a dent in keeping
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: it or making it easy or whatever. And so now
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: where are we with California in trying to keep some
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: of the production here?
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: It's what's happening in our industry. And it's interesting because
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: we know the story about the big banks and their failure.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: We know the story about America's auto industry and its failure.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: This is just kind of like the silent industry because
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: nothing is being reported on it. But what's happening to
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: our industry is the same thing that kind of happened
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: to the auto industry. It is cheaper to manufacture the
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: product abroad. And just like many corporations, they now have
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: their call centers, you know, in India or on the
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: other side of the planet where you can pay workers
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: for less. So we're starting to see a lot of
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: productions actually leave the United States, American programming being filmed
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: in places like Ireland.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: So when I, so about a year and a half, wait, yeah,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: it was, it was summer of 2022, I think, because
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: there's still like a COVID thing. I got offered to do,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: name that tune.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: OK, in Ireland.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: And I thought literally until about a week before I went. Yeah,
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: I thought I was doing the Irish version of it.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then they're like, no,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: they're just filming it in Ireland. I'm like, why? Oh,
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: because their covid thing was easier is what they originally said.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: No, Fox is building a whole studio in Ireland and
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: they have a negotiation with the Irish government to perform.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: more shows there and to be actually building their shows there.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: And, um, I just want to make it very clear.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I did my 23 and me, I am 99%, 100% Irish.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, really?
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I know that they also are saying that
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: you can get your dual citizenship for if your grandparent
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: or your great grandparent came from Ireland, which one of
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: mine did.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And, um, like good for Ireland. Like, you know, it
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: is my motherland, but my grandmother did come from there.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: But it's disheartening because when we went, you know, I'm like, wow,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: like I'm excited. I mean, it was a quick turnaround,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: but I went to Ireland and I, you know, got
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: a first class seat and got there and I saw,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: here I see, you know, Teddy Mellencamp and Cynthia Bailey
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: and some girls I know that are doing the show.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: And Tisha Campbell, I have dinner with Tisha Campbell. We
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: all know each other. We're all laughing. I'm like, why
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: are we not at Hollywood Center Studio? Like what, why?
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Like I go, so it still was less expensive to
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: fly us all out there first class and put us
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: up in hotels and.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: It made me sad. And also fly the department heads
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: because I actually named that tune. A friend of mine
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: is one of the producers on that and he goes
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: to Ireland. Well, bring me back.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I had a great time. And I did win $ 33, 000
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: for my charity, which is Hillside. But anyway, yeah, I mean,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: I'm happy for anybody that's working. I'm happy that Ireland
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: is lovely. But it's just like disheartening.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's so funny. It's like you mentioned
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: going to Ireland. My father was born in Italy and
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: came to the U.S. with my grandparents, you know, for
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: a better life. And I'm now applying for my Italian
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: citizenship because all I can think of is like, wow,
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: I would really love that villa with an olive garden
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: and eating charcuterie every day. And what am I doing wrong? So,
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if my grandfather would be
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: so disappointed to be like, all I want to do
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: is move back to.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think so. I mean, I think
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: that we can make it a beautiful, you know, international
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: world of entertainment. Right. But we shouldn't be losing so
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: much here. You know what I mean? Like, I think
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: it's lovely that because of Netflix, like I never grew
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: up watching any foreign anything.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: And that's the other part that my friend said was like,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: you know, there's we always think as America that we
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: are it. You know, we are the center. But there's
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: all these other countries that are putting out. wonderful content
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: that they can do the subtitles or or if you
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: don't want the subtitles, have them speaking. If you don't
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: want to read it.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: And of course, Korea is killing it.
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: Korea is like a lot of reality shows start there.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: A lot of I mean, Squid Games, look at the
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: success of that. Like they are.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: And we've always bought productions from other countries like Australia
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: or whatever. So that part is is going on. So
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: what what do you think? Like, what is some advice
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: to somebody that's struggling right now and waiting and pitching?
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you just not bother?
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: What do you do?
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, here's the thing. We're all creatives. And
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: I'm just as much in this as anybody else has.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: And I'm trying to be real with the situation. But
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: you kind of have to look at– I'm an optimist.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: And you look at the bright side, which is whenever
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: there's these periods of disruption, whenever there's chaos, that's when
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: the opportunity arises. And– I actually think that also as creatives,
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: as filmmakers, this is an opportunity for indie to really
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: start coming back. Because I think what you're seeing coming
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: out of these large studios is just material that nobody
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: wants to watch. Nobody wants to see another superhero movie.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to see the third sequel.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I literally was like, there's nothing to watch. I have
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: all the cable things, all the things. And then when
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: I watch something like The Perfect Couple, it wasn't good.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, where's my juicy thing? Like, it's just like,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: and because they don't make any movies that are just
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: about a woman killing her husband, but in a really
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: good way. Like, where are the fatal attractions? Where are
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: those things? They've done some remakes, but then they'll do
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: a remake of Fatal Attraction or Presumed Innocent. And they'll
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: milk it out for eight episodes. And I'm like, I
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: just want to see a really good movie that I
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: go to on a rainy day in LA at two
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: in the afternoon. Right. And it's excellent acting. And I
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm in New York for that moment or
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I leave the theater and I feel like I'm still
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: in the movie. Right. Like that. I don't know that. Well,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: that will, will that come back? I mean, I love
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: the fancy movie theaters.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: And that's the thing is like us creatives, we want
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: to make that stuff. We're not allowed to. Yeah. We, we,
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: We are pitching stuff of our own material all the time.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: I've seen some of the greatest programming. I've read some
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: of the greatest scripts and they won't see the light
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: of day because the people that are the traditional gatekeepers,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: they want that sure bet. They're not taking any swings
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: on anything. They're risk averse and they're going and it's
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: not people that are former people in the entertainment industry
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: running these companies or people that are coming from the
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: tech industry. They're lawyers. They're people that are not creatives.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: And I think they were never great before. So now
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: they really– I thought development people were always like not that.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Great with their notes. It's numbers and figures and algorithms.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Now it's even worse.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Exactly. OK. And an algorithm is not going to tell
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: you what an audience wants. If they had figured out
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: the system of what audiences want, there would never be
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: a flop. You wouldn't have Mad Max Furiosa. But this
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: idea that, oh, we could guarantee a sure hit just
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: by regurgitating the same stuff over and over. You're serving
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: the same meal to your audience.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: And people are just going to get tired of it.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: People want to see new. People want to be taken
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: on journeys. So where I see sort of the fertile
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: ground is this chance for all these creatives, the ones
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: that are out of work, the storytellers, the true storytellers,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: being able to start making their own content. And you're
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: still going to have distributors like Netflix and Disney Plus,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: but you're we're making the better content independently.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Do you feel that, you know, in the last like
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: five years, it was, okay, here's my pitch. And it's
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: about a family in the South and whatever, surrounded around
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: this really funny comedian or whatever. And, you know, cause
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: this did happen to my friend of mine and it
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: was about her family, you know? And then they were like, well,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: can the sister-in-law not be white like the rest of
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: the family?
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But that's sort of that, okay, now I kind
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: of have to change. We would be addressing that.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: That she is not,– well, we can't.
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: I see.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: So that changes that. OK, so now we need to
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: make it this– and checking all the boxes. Yes. Which
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: is fine. But I think what happened was you checked
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: all the boxes and you lost– sometimes shows that were
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: maybe very similar characters because you believed that they were
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: really friends. You believed that they were a real family.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: They really would hang out together. They acted all the same,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: like friends, like Seinfeld. And they had a chemistry and
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: it was, and those things worked just like, you know,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: blackish worked or just like whatever worked. And so I
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: feel like we went in that direction and there were
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of, because that was the direction that they
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: were told to go. And now I feel like, like
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: now it's just like, okay, let's just go with the
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: talent or like someone comes around and it's like, oh,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: well it's about a 50 year old woman. Can we
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: make her 35? Okay. But then that kind of changes
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: the whole, like, do you see that going anywhere where
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: they're just like, give me the thing that's fucking good
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: and talented and has some chemistry. Do you think we're
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: heading in that direction again?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: I hope so, but I think that's going to be
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: more independent. And a perfect example is yes, they, these
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: studios now have mandates. And there's something, and a perfect
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: example of that is I had a show that I
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: had developed and I've been developing it for over seven years.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: And I finally got it to a big network last year.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: And I was like, this is it. And was this
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: an unscripted thing? This is an unscripted show. And it
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: went to a major network and it sat at that
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: network for two months, which was a good sign. Like
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: they were sitting in it, they were running up the board.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: And the feedback we were getting is, this is amazing.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: This is one of the best formats we've seen in
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: like such a long time. And we were getting ready
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: and I was teamed up with a production company and
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: we were all kind of greasing our palms. We're like, oh,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: my gosh, this is it. You know, I'm like, finally,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: you know, finally getting the show out the door. And
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: call came back that, sorry, it went all the way
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: up the chain. But the mandate is we cannot buy
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: any programming unless it has a celebrity or intellectual property attached.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: So we have to.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: Say, oh.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: And explain that to the people about intellectual property.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: So IP or intellectual property is a brand recognition, whether
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: that's a famous name, whether that's a brand. Barbie is
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: a perfect example of IP. A book, a former movie, Marvel, Transformers.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: And the reason why that's important because that intellectual property
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: have been proven to have recognition, a fan base, interest.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a marketing tactic.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: It's purely a marketing tactic of I recognize this.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: And so therefore, I'm going to draw an audience. Again,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: it's being risk averse. I can't take a risk with
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: something that's unknown. It's a safer bet to attach something
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: like a celebrity, a name or a product that is
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: going to be recognizable by the audience.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so what would you say to young
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: people that are like thought that, you know, television would
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: be their dream? Or what's your advice to anybody that
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: is in this industry or thinking about this of where
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: they should be putting their like energy in.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing. It's not over. You got to remember
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: when typewriters went to word processor, that didn't change storytelling.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: That just changed the medium of how it came across.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: But what about AI storytelling? Because I definitely think I've
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: seen some shitty scripts that I was like, I think
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: this is AI. I think they put in romantic comedy, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: You know, another thing I think that's kind of hurt
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: TV and comedy. I don't know if you've seen this
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: on TikTok. I love it. I think it's brilliant. It's
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: something I've been doing like forever and people are doing
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: it on so many levels. But, you know, like comedians
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: have always made fun of like, you know, why does
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: a detective always act like this in a thing? I
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: would always be like, why is it always that the
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: detective doesn't want the FBI help? Like if I need
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: to solve a crime, I want the FBI help. It's like,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: get out of my town. And so making fun of
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: those things. So I think people have like– there's so
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: many like TikTok creators and– Delaney, you know who Delaney is?
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: This girl, that actor, Delaney. She looks like Demi Moore,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: a young Demi Moore. And she does all this insufferable,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: independent movie with the lead who likes the rain. And
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: she's like, on a Saturday, it's raining. And we're kind
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: of mocking the movies that we, the formula that we
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: have agreed to watch I used to call them dry
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: bar movies because when I got my hair blown out,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: it was always all the dating.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: The romantic comedies.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, the bridesmaids. And you would see that they were
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: all written by two guys. And it would affect you like, well,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: if I walk meekly into a party and look like this,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: won't the guy see me from across the room and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: be like, that's the one I want? Which is so
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: far from the truth. Like I am raising, you know, boys.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I live with my husband. Now I know that men
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: are like, no, you have to be like, hi. Like,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I like you. You know, like, you have to be
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: real fucking obvious. Like, it's not going to be some
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: guy being like, I don't want you, you big, beautiful, like,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: outgoing blonde. I want that little mousy thing that's, like,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: picking her nose with glasses. But I think in mocking that,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: it has made us now that that formula won't work
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: anymore because we've mocked it and we've cracked it open
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: and we've talked about how only men have written it.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: And so that's a whole other challenge now of, like,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: which could be really cool, too, is you know?
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: I see what you're saying. Like, like the traditional kind of,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: I guess you.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Could call it comfort formula, but you're still seeing it. Yeah.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: Look at the Hallmark Christmas movies.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: I asked about, cause I never watched Hallmark and I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: asked like my, I asked, I had an actress that
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: was on Hallmark who also now wrote and produced them.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: And I got, look, I, I like, True crime. And
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: I like a lifetime where like the nanny is like
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: fucking the husband and stealing the baby. OK, that's what
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: I like. But I'm like, how is it that these
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: like dork movies that, you know, the formula and everything.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: And she said, because in a scary time in the
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: world in which we definitely live, it is like this
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: comforting thing. You know, no one's going to get murdered.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: you know the guy's not going to have a secret
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: wife somewhere in the other town. He just sells Christmas trees,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: you know? Yeah. And you know that they are going
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: to have a nice home and, like, there's going to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: be a turkey. And it's just, like, a calming thing.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: So I agree with that. But when I think of, like,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: The romantic comedy thing, which is something that I would
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: always be excited to see. Oh, Julia Roberts is in
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: a movie, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: And there's a part where they get angry at each
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: other and they don't talk, but then they finally- Right.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: And then they walk out and they're both naked and
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: they're disgusted, but they have perfect body because they're like, oh, oh, oh,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: we work together in advertising. I can't see your naked body.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: And I think now that we've seen it, no, that's
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: never going to work again. Yeah. You have to. And
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: I think there's been a couple funny ones. I remember
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Amy Schumer's Show from a few– her movie from a
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: few years ago. I totally loved it. Trainwreck.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Loved it.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: Like I think we can do it. But then those,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: like you said, are not Planet of the Apes or
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: whatever superhero movie that can be huge in every single
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: country because it's a little specific to this girl in
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Portland who met her cute hippie dude. So then those
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: movies don't ever get– what they should have backing them,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: But then you look at movies like, did you see Coda?
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: No, I did not see Coda.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: Go watch Coda.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: Make sure you get a box of tissues.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: It won, you know, Best Picture. Did it win Best Picture?
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it won. Well, it won a lot, yeah.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: It won Best Actor, I remember that, or Best Supporting Actor.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: And the person was hearing impaired, right?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: It was a daughter who could hear and both her
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: parents were deaf, but she wanted to be a singer.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: And so the parents were like, well, what's the point
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: of us supporting you because this is not fair? But
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: it's just such a good– it's a small independent film.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: But the small– I don't think I've been so emotionally
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: moved by a movie. And it's a movie that gets
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: picked up in the little film festivals and then it
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: gets marketed. So it just– When you see it and
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: you realize that it doesn't– you don't need a $ 200
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: million budget film. Instead, why aren't these studios dividing it
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: up and make $ 20, $ 10 million films with good storytelling?
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: That's what used to be done. That's what used to happen. Comedies,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: comedy movies, like you think of like old school. Those
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: are so low budget.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Those are the only things that my boys who are
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: 21 and 18– They have not had anything like that
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: to watch in the last 10 years. They do watch
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: old school and they do watch the wedding singer.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: Like super bad.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: And they watch all those movies from like 15, 20
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: And those movies killed it at the box office. And
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: they were so cheap to make.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, not to toot my own horn, but like
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: I worked on White Chicks. I was a contributing writer
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: on it. And I love that people love that. And
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: the reason they love it so much. Is because it was,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: you know, funny. But also, they don't make comedies anymore.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: They literally do not make comedies anymore.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: Everybody, I try to think of like.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: And also because of the PC stuff.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: I was going to say. The PC stuff.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: And of course, if you watch some things, any movie
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: you can pick out, oh my God, I can't believe
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: they said that word. And oh my God, I can't
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: believe this is a storyline of making fun of this
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: guy because, you know, whatever, he's gay. And you're like,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, I go back to like.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: So like, you know, it's going to have to just
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: take people to be like, fuck it. This is the
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: movie we're doing. Come to see it if you don't.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: If you don't want to see it, don't see it.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: But again, they're not going to get the big studio
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: to back it.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: It.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Right. And that's why I think you're going to start
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: seeing more independent where you actually have people that are
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: so talented at writing who can actually make their own stuff.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: And I think the golden rule is whoever has the
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: gold makes the rules. And while these studios are hurting
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: financially- corporations still want to sell their product. I think
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: you're going to start seeing a lot more integration. I
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: think you're going to start seeing, I mean, you're starting
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: to see companies now doing their own media.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: Like in the olden days of radio, like this is
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: brought to you by this, you know.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: Soap operas.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: Soap operas were selling soap. And I think we're going
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: back to that model. Interesting. And I think actually if
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: there is a way forward, it is to do that
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: and say, hey, you know, if you guys want to
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: distribute our stuff, well, you could distribute it, but you
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: shouldn't make it. Why don't you let the talent make it?
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: Why don't you let the people that have new ideas,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: whether it's Sinks or Swim, that's always been the model.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: And what about the fact that, you know, we do
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: have a lot of billionaires. We have a lot of
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: multimillionaires who they get to a point in their life
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: and who doesn't want to be at the Oscars? Who
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to be a movie producer? So how do
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: you feel about creative people taking it into their own
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: hands and And crowd– maybe not crowdfunding but actually going
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: just like you would go to get money to launch
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: your makeup line that's for eczema or whatever. Doing that way,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: going but getting these people to that. Now, would you
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: like to be in the movie industry?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Do you want to be part of the sponsorship? Like
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: I mean could you imagine if Coca-Cola made a movie
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: that went to the Oscars? Like, you know, right now
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: it's like Apple and Amazon that are kind of like, hey,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: we've got an Oscar contender. We've got an Emmy contender.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: But I mean, what if, open that up. Who doesn't
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: want to go to the Oscars, to your point? Like,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: who doesn't want to like, wow, this is a, this
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: was the, you know, big box office smash brought to
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: you by Tide. You know, but like, but who's to
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: say you can't do that anymore? And that's what I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: think one of the big things that in this moment
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: of transition, we're also starting to realize that the rules are,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: don't really need to exist. Who says a movie has
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: to be 90 minutes to two hours? Who says a
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: movie can't be 17 minutes long? Who says you can't
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: watch a TV show vertically on a phone?
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: That has to be the three acts or whatever. Right, exactly.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Who's to say any of this that we've been so structured?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Because right now the house is flatlined. So it's like
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: you can build anything. And it's going to take the
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: people who think outside of the box. And this is
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Within chaos, there's opportunity. And this is
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: really going to be a time for creatives to thrive,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: I think. And it's time to step in and all
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: of a sudden say, wow, we're making some cool shit.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: This is what happens when you have free reign to
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: creatives and they can make the stuff that they want
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: to make. I'm looking at teaming up with this new company.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: And I'm not going to say what it is now
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: because it's going to come out later. But what it
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: does is provides equity to the entire crew. So if
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: you want to make a movie.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: So it's not just the executive producers taking the cash away.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: It's if you're a gaffer.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: They all have the back end. Right.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: Everybody gets a back end. I love that. So it
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: splits it amongst the crew. So everybody has ownership in
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: the product.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: And everybody's that much more involved in wanting to do
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: their best job. I love that so much.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: That's brilliant. And I don't really team up with many companies.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: But when I got pitched this, I was like, yes,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: I'm in because I believe this is the way forward.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: And they're looking to how do we make this where
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: you can go to a company and even using AI
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: to your point of saying, okay, hey, I keep using Coca-Cola,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: but hey, Budweiser, do you want to be part of
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: this film? Will AI can a Budweiser in the scene?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: So we could put whatever you need into the scene.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: And that's where I think AI can also be creative.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: That is a great idea.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: Not just like writing the crappy movie. Right.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: And we're also seeing things where I've heard, you know,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: Walmart bought Vizio and that there's discussions about creating programming
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: where you can watch the show, but you can hit
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: pause and everything you see on screen, you can purchase
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: at Walmart. So like I could buy your shirt. I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: could buy the hat. I could buy the seat that
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: you're sitting in. I could buy the clock on the wall.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: So anything you click on the screen is purchasable.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: So I think that is so brilliant, too, because people
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: are always like, You know, like we talked about JLo
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: went on a date with Ben Affleck and we talked
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: about it on the show and we're like, where are
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: those jeans from?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: And I had someone tell me they were Veronica Beard.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: I had another person tell me they were Good America
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: and another one tell me they were Frame. I still
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: don't know which ones they were. Kohl's. You know? Yeah.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: like J-Lo go make your own jeans but yeah and
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: so there's always that like oh where did this person
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: get this and sometimes it's yeah you can do it
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: a little bit online but it would be really cool
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: to do it on the show where you're like yeah
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: I do like that couch.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah I want that. Where can I buy that? Oh,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: and especially if it's like Walmart, you know, it's all
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: coming from Walmart.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Right. And then everybody profits from the fact that you
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: bought something that was featured on the show.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And Target can do the same thing. And if
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: you think about it, that is really the future where
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: we're going. So that's what I'm saying. The golden rule, follow,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: you know, whoever has the gold makes the rules, follow
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: the money. Who has the money and who's going to
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: be wanting to get the most out of the content?
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Well, this is so great. Tell everybody where they can
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: follow you. You do lots of posts a day. Thank you.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: And I think it's really interesting.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: I have a serious faith. I got to work on
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: my– Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: So this is your– your Instagram is producer.patrick.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: And then on TikTok, you even have a bigger following.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: That's at producerpatrick, no dot.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: So awesome. Well, it was so great meeting you. And
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: now you've made me not want to just.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: You want to go out and make something? I mean,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: you're making something right now.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: I know. Well, I love doing the show and I oftentimes,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: because it's so like free flowing, I'll think of a
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: movie idea and I'll say it. And I will say,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: just go make, I won't even be jealous. Just go
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: make it because I don't have time to do it.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: But you know what? Maybe if I did utilize more
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: of these tools, like even if it is an AI
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: thing and I just I push it out and they
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: write me like a crappy script. At least, like I
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: always said when people say, how did you write your books?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: I always say, get it out on paper and then
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: go back.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And go back.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: So it's like let's not totally shit on an AI
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: script because if you got an AI script, you still
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: could go back and at least you go, okay, here's
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: the opening scene. Now I can make it funny.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: It's a tool.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Now I can create a more interesting character. Now I
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: can– So it's it can help you just like Cliff
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: Notes used to help us in our day. Try to
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: understand like a Shakespeare play.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: A hundred percent. And I use it all the time
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: to be like, how can I make this letter more
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: persuasive or how can I make you know, how can
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: I make or I'm just like, I really don't feel
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: like typing this whole email out, like get these points out,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: you know, and then it generates the whole like message
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: Like it's just where we're, you know, it. And it
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: also just makes time go so much faster in terms
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: of like writing summaries. I could take notes and I
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 3: could paraphrase everything.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's so great for college. I see
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: all this stuff for college. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Patrick.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: You're a delight. Thank you for having me on the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: Juicy Scoop. I'm excited. So thank you for having me.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you. The car is beautiful. Where did you end
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: up going for it? This exclusive place at Data's Connections with.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: they have more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: What's it called?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: It's Dunaidial.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 6: Where?
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: Dunaidial. There's an accent on the E. Do you mean... Yes,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 6: Lift?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Please. Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.