Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham SBC Pastors Conference Presidency and How We #ChangeTheDirection

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham SBC Pastors Conference Presidency and How We #ChangeTheDirection · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sword and Trial podcast. This is a
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: ministry of Founders Ministries. Founders exists for the recovery of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the gospel and the reformation of local churches. And I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Tom Askell.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm Graham Gundin. Tom, I got a question for you.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: What is a woman?
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  Speaker 1: Graham, do I look like a biologist? Come on here.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Our Supreme court justice nominee.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're not a biologist, but I do know a
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  Speaker 2: place you can go to figure out what a woman is.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. The Bible. And because we believe the Bible,
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  Speaker 1: we're actually having a conference on what is man. And
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: by that, we are not trying to be binary here.
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  Speaker 1: We're being all inclusive. We mean mankind creatures made in
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  Speaker 1: the image of God that distinguish us from all other
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: creatures in the world. And so in a day, of
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  Speaker 1: such mass confusion about what constitutes reality to the degree
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: that you can't even have a Supreme Court justice nominee
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: venture out to give a definition of a woman. We're
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  Speaker 1: going to be addressing the biblical category of human. What
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  Speaker 1: is man?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: A featherless biped, right?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. There you go. We could use that.
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  Speaker 1: So we've got some great guys lined up to come speak.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Votie Bauckham, who's with us today, Joel Beeky, Paul Washer,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We'll be addressing this issue. The conference is in January
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: 2023 here in Southwest Florida. Great time of year to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: be in Southwest Florida when everybody else is freezing in
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the northern hemisphere. So we invite you to come. Go
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to founders.org. You can register for this. There are still
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: discounted rates available. So we'd love to see you here.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: As we address the question, what does the Bible say
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: about humanity?
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. We still have early bird registration going
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: on and spaces filling up quick. So if you plan
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: to get here for the conference, make sure you sign
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: up soon. Also, the Institute of Public Theology, right now
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: we're waiving application fees for IOPT. You're a teacher at
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: IOPT as well as the president.
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  Speaker 3: Dr.
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  Speaker 2: Bauckham as well teaches there, one of the founding faculties.
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  Speaker 2: This summer we are offering a couple of courses, one
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  Speaker 2: on New Testament that will be taught by Travis Allen,
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  Speaker 2: June 20th through 24th. And then also Dr. Tom Nettles
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  Speaker 2: will be teaching Church History Part 1 the following week,
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  Speaker 2: June 27th through July 1st.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. Those will be excellent courses. Tom's course will
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  Speaker 1: go up to the Reformation Era, Part 2 to Church History.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: We'll take it over from the Reformation Era to the present. So, yeah,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: go check out the Institute of Public Theology. You can
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: go to instituteofpublictheology.org and get more information on that effort.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Also, we have a new podcast. I'm sure some of
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: you are aware of that. We have the Founders Sermon
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: podcast stream. And so that's just basically sermons from our
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: different conferences that are being uploaded all the time. And
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: so you can find sermons there from Tom Askell, Votie Bauckham,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Conrad and Bayway, Tom Nettles, and many, many more. So
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: you can get that wherever you download your podcasts.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well.
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  Speaker 1: Today we're delighted to have all the way from Lusaka,
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  Speaker 1: Vody Baucom. Vody is the Dean of Theology at the
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  Speaker 1: African Christian University. He is involved in planting yet another
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  Speaker 1: church as he has been sent out from his home
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  Speaker 1: church at Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka to be a
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  Speaker 1: mentor of a church planter as they are seeking to
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  Speaker 1: get another congregation going. Of course, he did that in
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  Speaker 1: the United States as well, planted Grace Family Baptist Church
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  Speaker 1: in Houston, the Houston area. and has been involved in
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  Speaker 1: a variety of ministries. One of the founding faculty of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the Institute of Public Theology. He's also a board member
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: of Founders Ministries. But that's not the thing that most
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  Speaker 1: people are talking about when Vody's name comes into conversation
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  Speaker 1: these days. So, Vody, welcome all the way from Lusaka.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, brother. It's good to be with you again.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, we're always glad to have you on this podcast.
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  Speaker 1: And why is everybody talking about you? What have you
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  Speaker 1: done now? Well, you know, I.
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  Speaker 3: Think first it was the rumors about me being nominated
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  Speaker 3: to be president of the SBC. Yeah. And of course,
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  Speaker 3: you know, that, that wasn't going to work and wasn't
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  Speaker 3: going to happen because of, um, some technical rules there
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  Speaker 3: in the SBC that wouldn't, wouldn't allow it. Um, and
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  Speaker 3: then after that, there was a nomination to be president
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  Speaker 3: of the pastors conference, the SBC pastors conference. Um, And,
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  Speaker 3: you know, a nomination which I've said I'm willing to accept.
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  Speaker 3: And because of those two things, there are a lot
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  Speaker 3: of people running around with their hair on fire, you know,
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  Speaker 3: and a whole bunch of stir. And then, of course,
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  Speaker 3: now my name has been associated with you as you
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  Speaker 3: finally agreed to accept the nomination for president of the
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  Speaker 3: Southern Baptist Convention. And so now the idea of the
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  Speaker 3: two of us, yeah, being involved in that way. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I think somewhere there are people, you know, in little
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: situation rooms trying to figure out what to do. So
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  Speaker 3: I think that's what all the fuss is about.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. I mentioned devotee just before
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  Speaker 1: we started recording. that somebody sent me a notice from
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  Speaker 1: social media of a woman who said, don't be fooled,
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  Speaker 1: Tom Askell is just as bad as Votie Bauckham.
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  Speaker 2: That's rude to both of you. What an insult. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: it's been, it's been fun to see over the past
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  Speaker 2: several years, uh, your friendship, um, and you've become quite
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  Speaker 2: the dynamic duo, the two of you together. Um, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm interested to hear how this kind of began. Where
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  Speaker 2: did you guys first meet and how did you guys
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  Speaker 2: come together in ministry the way that you are today?
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  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I think we, it was over email.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I think, uh, we first probably had contact. I remember
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  Speaker 1: you were getting 1689 confessions and you kept ordering more
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  Speaker 1: and I, I'm thinking, man, who is this guy? Why
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: is he acting 1689 so much? I like him.
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  Speaker 2: You can order more 1689 confessions as well.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you were in Houston at that time, I think,
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  Speaker 1: weren't you, Vody? Yes, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think we had planted or were about to plant
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  Speaker 3: GFBC at that time, or it may have even been
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  Speaker 3: before that. Because we planted GFBC in 2006. So it
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  Speaker 3: may have even been earlier that we were communicating by email.
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  Speaker 3: And then, of course, you know, I would speak at
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  Speaker 3: homeschool conferences and would take the, you know, the booklets.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, Truth and Grace memory books.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Truth and Grace memory books. So I was
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  Speaker 3: ordering a ton of those.
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  Speaker 1: That's right.
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  Speaker 3: And then you guys came. I don't think anybody was
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  Speaker 3: ordering as many as I was ordering.
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  Speaker 1: You're right.
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  Speaker 3: You know, to take to homeschool conferences and encourage homeschoolers
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  Speaker 3: to get involved in catechism and scripture memory and things
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  Speaker 3: like that. And so that's how we initially began to
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  Speaker 3: communicate with one another. And then I think we met
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  Speaker 3: in person when I preached at the state convention or
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  Speaker 3: the state evangelism conference. I'm not sure which one, but yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it was, it was, it was back then, you know,
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  Speaker 3: in our, in our shared SBC days, which really seems
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  Speaker 3: ironic now, you know, now people are talking like I've
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  Speaker 3: never been a part of the SBC, you know, I've
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  Speaker 3: never had anything to do with the SBC. I'm a
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  Speaker 3: Johnny come lately to, you know, the SBC, but, you know,
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  Speaker 3: decades ago, you know, we met when I was preaching and,
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  Speaker 3: At either the state convention for Florida or the state
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  Speaker 3: evangelism conference for Florida, which was very common for me
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  Speaker 3: in that day to be preaching at either state evangelism
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  Speaker 3: conferences or state conventions around the country.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the state convention of Florida. I don't
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  Speaker 1: remember what year, but it was held here in Fort Myers.
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  Speaker 1: And it was actually in McGregor Baptist Church. That was
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  Speaker 1: the venue for it, which is the venue for the
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  Speaker 1: Founders Conference now and another strange providence of God. Ed,
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  Speaker 1: I recall you were preaching on the qualifications for pastors. Ed, man,
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  Speaker 1: I'm sitting there, and you laid into, I think it's
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  Speaker 1: verses 3 and 4, 1 Timothy 3, about if a
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  Speaker 1: man doesn't rule his own household well, how can he
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  Speaker 1: rule the household of God? And dealing with his children,
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  Speaker 1: having his children insubordinate to him. And it was just like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's what the text says, yeah. But afterwards, people were upset.
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  Speaker 1: People were, including some of the denominational leaders, one of
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  Speaker 1: whom stood up and spoke right after you and just
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  Speaker 1: took massive swipes at you. And so I remember looking
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  Speaker 1: at you. I said, why don't we leave? So you
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  Speaker 1: and I walked out, and we went and got coffee
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  Speaker 1: or something. But anyhow, I knew instantly. I'd known before that,
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  Speaker 1: but I knew instantly, listening to you preach, seeing the
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  Speaker 1: response that, yeah, yeah, we– We got a lot in common.
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  Speaker 1: I love this brother. So that was the first time
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  Speaker 1: that we met, but we've been together a lot. And
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  Speaker 1: I remember one time we were in my living room
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  Speaker 1: here in Cape Coral. And I think it was maybe
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  Speaker 1: focused on the family that had given you a book contract,
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  Speaker 1: but they were trying to change the, they didn't want
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  Speaker 1: you to conclude a section on education. You remember that?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, I do. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: That was a interesting time. And so anyhow, then, then the,
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  Speaker 1: I think one of the publishers that you had a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: contract with was trying to change the content of your
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  Speaker 1: chapter on education. They didn't want you to talk about
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  Speaker 1: public education the way you did. And so you wound
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  Speaker 1: up pulling the book from them. You didn't publish with them.
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  Speaker 1: You remember, I think it was focused on the family,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. That it was that issue and a couple
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  Speaker 3: of other issues. Yeah. That, that led to, to, to
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  Speaker 3: pulling that book. So, Yeah, I've been no stranger to controversy.
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  Speaker 3: And and even before that, a lot of people don't
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: know this, but that, that opportunity only came about because
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  Speaker 3: I've been blacklisted by Lifeway and Bronwyn Holman.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. What did you do to make them so mad, man?
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  Speaker 3: My, my first book, The Unloving Truth, It was published
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  Speaker 3: by Robin and Holman, and then there was a Bible
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  Speaker 3: study by the same name, published by Lifeway. It won
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: a Telly Award for the Bible study, and everything's going great.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: It was part of a three-book deal. And in the
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: midst of that, we started talking about some other things
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: that they wanted to do. But I became aware of
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: what I thought was unethical treatment of another author. And
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: so I spoke up about that. And after that happened,
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  Speaker 3: my contact person, I had to go between, you know,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: the Lifeway side and the B & H side. He
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: spoke to the powers that be and came back to me,
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  Speaker 3: and he told me three things. He said, number one,
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  Speaker 3: they said, we're cooling off our relationship with you. His
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: name was Bill Seaver. And Bill says, number one, they said,
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  Speaker 3: they're cooling off their relationship with you. I said, Bill,
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  Speaker 3: what does that mean? He said, I don't know. He
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: just told me to tell you. He said, number two,
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  Speaker 3: they're not going to publish you. any more books with you.
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  Speaker 3: And number three, they're not going to promote your material anymore.
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  Speaker 3: So here I was a first time author with a
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: three book deal. And they essentially say, we're going to
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  Speaker 3: end your publishing career. You know, I, I didn't know,
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  Speaker 3: I know what to do, you know, at that time.
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  Speaker 3: But I felt like it was important for me to
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: speak up about what I saw and, and continually was
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: unethical treatment of, of another author there, an author that
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: had become a personal friend, you know, a fellow, a
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: fellow Houstonian. I was preaching at their church at the
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: time because, you know, their pastor had retired and yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, I was blacklisted. Wow.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: So what, what were they doing to this other author?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Can you just give us the story on that?
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  Speaker 3: All I'll say is that I, it was unethical treatment.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: It was unethical treatment.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: And, and, and this author, it was actually in the
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: process of fixing that, um, with their representation and so
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: on and so forth.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And, uh, you spoke up.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I did, uh, I did, I, I spoke
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: up and, um, confronted the issue and got the, got
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: the hatchet.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: So, um, uh, Yeah. I mean, people don't know this story, Vody. So,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, who was this other author that you spoke
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: up for and took up for?
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  Speaker 3: It was, it was this little unknown person named Beth Moore.
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  Speaker 1: Beth Moore.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was Beth Moore.
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  Speaker 1: All right. Wait a minute. What's a misogynist like you
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: doing helping an author like Beth Moore?
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly. And every time, you know, and I haven't
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: spoken about this, you know, I didn't, I didn't, Well, anyway,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: I didn't speak about it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't have spoken about it today if we
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: hadn't drawn it out of you. Cause I've known this
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: story for years. Yeah.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's actually how I got my current literary agent.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: You know, I didn't have a literary agent, which is
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons that this whole thing was so devastating. Um,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: you know, here I was, I had this, this three
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: book deal. It wasn't a very good deal, but of
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: course I didn't know any better. And I was a
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: new author. Um, And here I am in the middle
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: of it, you know, not even in the middle of it,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: one out of the three books done. And so I'm
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: done for. And Beth was represented by Yates and Yates.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: They found out what had happened. And Curtis Yates actually
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: flew to Houston, sat down in my living room, you know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: to just have me unpack everything that occurred. And he
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: got me out of that deal and actually got me
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: into another deal. And they've been my literary agents ever since. Yeah.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: So Vody, you, um, you've been involved with the Florida
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: state convention. We've talked about that. Uh, you were, you
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: did write a book for Lifeway and then got promptly blacklisted. Um,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: what has been the extent of your involvement with the
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: SBC other than that? Because a lot of people have
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: questions about that as you, uh, have been nominated for
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: the pastors conference president.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Well, a couple of things, you know, first of all,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: I'm a graduate of three Southern Baptist institutions. I played
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: football at Rice, but then, you know, eventually I left
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: there and transferred to Houston Baptist University. So I spent
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: my senior year there and I have a couple of
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: bachelor's degrees from HBU. I did my MDiv at Southwestern
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: and then I did my, my DMN at Southeastern. So,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm as Baptist as it gets in terms
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: of my education. I have served on the, well, actually
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: I was supposed to serve as the chair of the
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Tellers Committee in, I think it was 2002 when it
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: was in New Orleans. But because of all the storms
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: that happened, I wasn't able to get there. So I
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: wasn't able to perform. As I write about in Fault Lines, Um,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: you know, I was in the midst of conversations with people, um,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: especially during the conservative resurgence who were talking about the
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: possibility of, of me, um, being nominated to be the
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: first black president of the Southern Baptist convention. Um, you know,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: this of course was before I came out as, as
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: a Calvinist. Um, and then, you know, all of that
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: kind of disappeared. Um, But even so, you know, stayed
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: in the Southern Baptist Convention. We planted GFBC in 2006.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: We planted it as an SBC church. You know, so,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, I have a long history with the Southern
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Baptist Convention.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you planted a church there in Houston.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: And then we planted churches out of that church.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: That were SBC.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's right. I mean, I've been involved with
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: one of those in College Station. So it's... It's fascinating
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to me that people would then turn on you and say, oh,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: he's not really Southern Baptist. You know, Johnny come lately
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: to the efforts in the convention. One of the things
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that's been said that's kind of funny is that your
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: nomination as president of the Pastors Conference, my nomination as
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: president of the SBC, that this is just a power
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: play because we couldn't stand not being in power any longer.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: We couldn't stand having lost power. We have to regain
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: our power. Brother, how you been surviving with all that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: power taken away from you from the SBC?
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, man. You know, I was, I
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: was fired by Dwight McKissick, you know, my first church
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: staff position. I was blacklisted by Lifeway and VNH. Then
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: I was dumped, you know, because of my Calvinist convictions by,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: you know, people in the conservative resurgence who, you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: I just, yeah, I, I don't know. If that's power,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I don't want to regain that.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's funny. You know, I was a student at
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Southwestern and kind of a reluctant PhD student, but I
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: became one. And first year after the end of the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: first year, they offered me a contract, demanded. I said,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: we have to have you teach. We have to have
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you teach systematic. So I signed this contract. And then
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: about three weeks later or so, I get this phone
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: call from the dean's office secretary saying, hey, you know
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: that contract you signed? I said, just tear it up.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Just tear it up.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I said, what are you talking about? He said, no,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: just tear it up. I said, well, help me understand.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: It's all these arguments you use that I had to,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you had to have me.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: It's taken care of and It took me forever to
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: get an appointment with the dean, and anyway, that was
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: not pleasant.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Is that because they figured out what federalism was in
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: your dissertation?
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: No, I asked them, I said, is it my theology?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Is it my character? Is it my scholarship? What is it?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: And I never got a straight answer except that, oh, no, no,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: it's just a big mass confusion. I did find out
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: years later that two professors went to the dean and said,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: you cannot do this. You cannot let this guy teach.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So anyway, that happened, and then one of those professors
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: called my pastor in Dallas where I was serving on staff,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and told him that he had a really rotten guy
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: on his staff at the church and that I didn't
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: believe the Baptist faith and message and should get rid
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of me. And so that created, set in motion a
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: series of events that wound up me having to just
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: resign the church, you know, for the sake of the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: unity of the church and all the confusion that had
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: been created. So I guess those were my halcyon days
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: of power in the SBC. So I miss that. We
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: need to get back to that. Yeah.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, my.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: And here's the other thing.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Here's the other thing, right? It's ironic that people are
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: accusing me of two things simultaneously. Number one, I'm not
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: qualified or eligible because for the last seven years I've
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: been serving the Lord in Africa, completely outside of the
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: power structures of the SBC. And number two, that I'm
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: just doing this because my goal is gaining power. So
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: both of those things can't, be true simultaneously. If my
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: goal in life was to gain power within the SBC,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: then my last seven years make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not very smart, you know, if that's really
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: your goal. Well, there's other things we need to talk about.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: One thing we ought to address right now, though, is
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: people say, man, look at this. Votie Bauckham's a Calvinist.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Tom Askell's a Calvinist. We knew it. We knew it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: This is the effort of the Calvinists to take over
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the SBC, which in my mind is ludicrous. There are
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: far more important issues in Calvinism that are assailing us
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: right now that have to be addressed. And I've had
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: these conversations with my non-Calvinist friends in the SBC. They
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: see it clearly. We are in complete agreement on these things,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: and I feel very confident in my own soul about
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: this and talking to friends, real friends, who are not
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Calvinistic in the way that I am, and yet we
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: are linking arm in arm to try to address what
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: we see as very serious issues. Brother, what would you
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: say to people who say, oh, man, this is just
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a power move by Calvinists to come and take over
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the convention, and we warned you of this, and now
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: it's happening?
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, again, how can these two things be true? On
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: the one hand, you know, I'm accused of, you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: colluding with the conservative Baptist network to make this happen, right?
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And on the other hand, it's a Calvinist coup. Well,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: the conservative Baptist network is full of people who are
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: not Calvinists, right? So that's a horrible way to facilitate
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: a Calvinist coup, a Calvinist takeover in the Southern Mass Convention.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: And the fact of the matter is that, you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Calvinists and lesser Calvinists and anti-Calvinists have coexisted in the
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: SBC since its inception. And I think the people who
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: are making that argument are being sort of revisionists in
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: their history. Because their narrative goes something like this. Calvinism
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: has never been part of the SBC, but now there's
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: these Calvinists who have emerged in the SBC and they
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: want to take over the SBC and make the SBC
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: something that it's never been, which I'm sure would absolutely
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: shock our, our founders. Yeah.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: And it's the people who are making that argument and
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: trying to make that a big issue tend to be
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: from my vantage point among the more progressive wing of
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: the SBC. Those who are just looking for something that
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: they can latch onto to discredit this effort that's underway
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to say, you know what, we got some problems in
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: the SBC. We need to change the direction of the SBC. And, uh,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: it's fascinating to hear it. I've had multiple conversations, one
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: just recently, you know, back and forth messaging with an
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: old nemesis theologically, you know, we, we would go at
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: it with each other online and privately about our differences
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: over the five points of Calvinism. And, uh, he's very
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: strong and committed in his understanding. And I consider myself
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: that way, but we were exchanging texts back and forth. And, uh,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I said, man, I look forward to the day. If
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: God is so kind to us to help us to
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: stop this progressive train, this social justice move that has
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: infiltrated evangelical life and the SBC, I look forward to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the day to buying you a cup of coffee and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: we can sit down and resume our old debates. And
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: hopefully I'll be more chastened this time with some humility
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that I've needed all along the way. And we can
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: have those fraternal debates that are important. They're not unimportant.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: But right now there are enemies at the gates from
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: our culture that I'm afraid that many of our leaders
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: don't recognize, or if they do, they're willing to become
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: complicit with them and allowing them access that they should
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: not have to our institutions and our churches. So, I mean,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that's why I've agreed to do this. And it's interesting,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: you know, you and I have talked a little bit,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: but we haven't had long hours together to talk about this,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: but I just sense a, a oneness with you that, okay,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: we ought to try to do this. If this is
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: what God and his providence has guided us to, then
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: let's be willing to take our stand and try to
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: rally God's people to say enough. We need to change
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the direction.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, another part of the irony
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: of all of that is, you know, the Calvinist boogeyman
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: is a Calvinist boogeyman because he, you know, anti evangelistic,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: you know, among other things. And again, the irony is
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: just palpable. You know, I'm a church planter of a
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: church planting church who moved to Africa for missions. And
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: the accusation is that my Calvinism makes one um, evangelistic
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: and not committed to or concerned about missions. Um, I just,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know, man, people just, people just don't think, um,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: before they, they say some of the things that they,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: that they say. Um, and I think they're playing their hand.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I think they're exposing themselves. Um, I think it's obvious to,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: you know, to reasonable people, um, that these guys are
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: being disingenuous. You know, a great example of that, we've
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: talked about this before, you know, there have been some
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: hit pieces and whatever. And I've said on a number
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: of occasions, I recognize that SBC life is a full
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: contact sport, right? I get it. So I'm not whining, moaning, complaining, whatever.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: But it's so telling when, for example, people come after
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: me because, you know, I made the statement that, you know,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: that child is not a little angel, but actually that's
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: a viper in a diaper, right? Talking about total depravity.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: And one of the pieces written about it, because this
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: thing comes up over and over again, right? My view
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: of children, which in itself is crazy, right? I have
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: such a hatred for children that we have nine of them.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: But in one of the pieces, they were just like
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: appalled that I would make such a statement and then
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: people in the audience would laugh. And I'm like, it
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: was a joke. It was a joke. You people can't
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: even take a joke. And any, I mean, any, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: honest person listening to that comes away Yes, that was
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: a joke. Yes, that was hyperbole in order to make
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: a point, you know, about the doctrine of total depravity.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: But I think when people do things like that, it
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: exposes their motives. And so, you know, whatever. I've got
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: thick skin and broad shoulders. I'll be fine. You know,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: I don't like it when they come after my wife
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: and my children.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was wicked. That was wicked.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: I couldn't stay silent on that.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: And, you know, I think the other thing that this
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: exposes is this whole woke ideology, right? Because these woke
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: people wink and nod at Black members of the SBC
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: who have scandals in their churches and who are aligned
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: theologically with, you know, positions and practices that are absolutely
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: out of bounds, right? You know, all of these things.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: And nobody says a word, right? Because you can't do that.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: And you have to treat those folks with kid gloves.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: But if you're a conservative, if you're a Black conservative,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: if you're not woke, and God forbid you're against wokeism,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: then you're fair game. And people can say to you
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: and about you things that they would never say about
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: another Black person. And ironically, I take that as a
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: compliment because that means you see me as a man
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: and as an equal because you're willing to come at me, right?
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: And it's not the soft bigotry of low expectations. And
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I think what that does is it exposes the dishonesty
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: And the hypocrisy of progressivism.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. All right, Graham, we need to be clear.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: We want to make this underscore it, make it very clear.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Let's send out a press release that Votie Baucom does
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: not believe that children are actually rattlesnakes. in diapers okay
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: are we safe to say that make that clear in
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: case there's any confusion uh.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Going forward and no more jokes please yeah he.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Does have a sense of humor he does have a
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: sense of humor however well uh what what do you
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: what do you hope will uh happen in Anaheim? And
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: just in your own words, why? Why have you been
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: willing to let yourself be put in this position where
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: you'll be nominated as president of the SBC?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I ask myself that a lot. Oh, you know, because...
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: I think when you come to moments like this, when
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: you come to historical moments where you see a shift,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: where you see a downgrade, there is a time to
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: shake the dust off your sandals and walk away. And
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I think we're close to that, right? But I think
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: before you do that, you have to be willing to
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: make a stand. And there are brothers who are making
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: a stand. And I've said, you know, hey, I'm with you,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I'm for you. And then when it came to me,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: if I'm honest, and if I really believe that this
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: stand needs to be taken, and if I'm encouraged and
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: asked and nominated, what kind of man would I be
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: if I looked at that and said, no. So, yeah,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I am willing to take this stand and I'm honored
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: that people, and it's interesting, there are people from all
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: walks of the SBC who've asked to nominate me for
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: various things. And I'm humbled by that and I'm honored.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, that's why I'm willing. I believe in
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: the Southern Baptist Convention. I've invested a lot of my
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: life and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: the Southern Baptist Convention. I am not and have not
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: been a political animal, but that's not the only way
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: that one can love and serve the SBC. And again,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: when it came time for my first publishing contract, who
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: did I sign with? I signed with LifeWay. I signed
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: with B & H, right? Because the SBC was my home.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: So anyway, that's why I'm willing.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Tom, let me turn the same question to you. Why
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: is it that you see the SBC as being so
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: important that you would take perhaps the kind of abuse
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: that you have or will take going into this?
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's a good question. And first of all,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I can say that I been taking abuse for a
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: long time, so it doesn't bother me much. And when
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: it gets to the family issues, and that's happened some,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: you know, somebody said that Tom Haskell regards his daughters
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: as property, you know, and that kind of stuff is
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: just wicked. But again, I consider the source and not
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: too undone by that. But the SBC matters. I mean,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: it matters. It's the largest Protestant nomination in North America.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: And what happens in the SBC has... impact way beyond
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the sbc we educate one-third of all the seminary students
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: in the united states we are training that means those
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: ministers for the future you know long after i'm dead
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: there will be people who are serving in churches in
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the united states who are trained at southern madness seminaries
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: we have the largest missionary organization in the world and
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: there's been a lot of good it's been done through
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: our institutions and agencies and i it's like a rising
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: tide raises all ships And I think the SBC has
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: a tremendous opportunity to help see that tide rise in
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: right ways. And, man, the world is going nuts. I mean,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: our American culture, you have to be deaf, dumb, and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: blind to think that everything's good right now. You've got
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: parents going to school board meetings, screaming their heads off
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: because of the things that their kids are being subjected
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: to in classrooms that they see and recognize by common
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: grace to be wicked. And it's that same ideology, that
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: same secularism, that same paganism that is coming into the
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: churches now more subtly on many fronts. And you have
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: church leaders saying, oh, yes, you know, in order to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: be nice, in order to be well-respected, in order to
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: be thought of in a way that we can have
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: evangelistic opportunity, we can't speak out against these things the
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: way that moms in Luton County, Virginia, are speaking out
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: with their strongest voice. I see that, and I think
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: we've been manipulated. A lot of our leaders have just
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: been manipulated. Maybe other things are going on. I'll leave
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: motives to God. But the reality is we cannot sit
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: by and let these things continue. We've got to stand
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: up and say, this is wrong. This is wrong. And
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: there needs to be repentance for letting this happen. The
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: leaders who have let this happen need to repent. And
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: if they're not willing to repent, they just need to go.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: They need to step down. You know, they can do
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: something else in God's kingdom. But I have to believe,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you're going to have to convince me with irrefutable evidence
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: that the majority of the members and pastors of our 48,000
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: to 50,000 Southern Baptist churches are okay with these secular
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: pagan ideologies. I just don't believe it. I don't believe it.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: And part of the difficulty we've had in our annual
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: meetings is getting even a half of those pastors and
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: churches to show up. And most of them are small.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: the typical Southern Baptist church has less than 75 people
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: as members. And so they don't have money to send
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: folks out to Anaheim, for example. I mean, it's, it's
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: a sacrifice to do that, but they've been faithfully supporting
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: missions through the SBC. They've been faithfully cooperating as they can.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: And now these things are happening that will impact them
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and their children and their children's children and my children
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and my children's children. And, uh, again, we've been talking
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: about this a long time. I've been trying to address it.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: And as the tables were turned on me by friends,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I know and love and trust and said, well, okay,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: why won't you do this? And, um, you know, Bodie, uh,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: you know, initially we're being asked about, uh, president of
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: the SBC and when it was determined, he couldn't do it. Uh,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: he's a world, uh, champion jujitsu, uh, guy too. And
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: so he jujitsu me and, uh, yeah. So, But listening
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to the guys talk and praying seriously about it, fasting,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: talking to my wife and our church, our elders, it
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: just became evident, okay, God's put you in this position,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: so steward it well. Do your best. I'm a pastor.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I don't pretend to be anything other than that. I
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: don't want to be anything other than that. I don't
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: have any political ambitions in the SBC, but for where
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: we are right now, I'm willing to do whatever I can,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and if this is the best use of my time
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and energies, then I'll submit to that and give it
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: my very best. So that's why I'm in this. And
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: you know, we'll, the tide needs to turn. It needs
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to start. And the starting point's always hardest. And if
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: God would be pleased to do that in Anaheim this year,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: then I will praise him, thank him and try to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: do whatever I can to be an instrument for righteousness
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and usefulness in his hands and whatever position that he
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: sees fit to put me in or to keep me from.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: I think the, the, Southern Baptist Convention would be blessed
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: by the Lord if he were to give us the
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: leadership of both of you men. But also, we have
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: to remember that that's not the end. It's a victory,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: but it's not the end. It's just the beginning.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And the only way it happens, I mean,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: God's going to have to do it, obviously. Votie, if
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: you get elected the pastor of the President's Conference, if
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I get elected pastor of the SBC, or if either
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: one of those things happen, it will be an act
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: of God. For that to happen in Anaheim, California, it
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: will be an act of God. And if it doesn't happen,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that'll be an act of God too, and that's fine.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: We're not going to take our toys and go home.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Your Calvinist is showing.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: My confidence in the Word of God. He's God, and
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: that's good. But we need to steward what he is
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: doing and what he would call us to be and do.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: But let me just say to my fellow Southern Baptists,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: this doesn't happen. Change will not happen if you're not
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: willing to pay the price to show up at a
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: business meeting two days a year. There's no other way,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: humanly speaking— because of the polity of the SBC, you
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: have to get to Anaheim. You have to elect a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: president who has these concerns that you share so that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the tide or the ship can begin to be turned.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And Bodie's possibility of leading the 2023 pastors conference as
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: its president bodes very well for not just the SBC,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: but beyond. I mean, when you talk about expositional preachers
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and you come up with a short list of Vody's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: name is on that list every time, every time. God's
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: gifted Vody, and he has used those gifts well, stewarded
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: them well. And who else would you want to be
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: a president of a pastor's conference where pastors gather to
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: be encouraged by the word of God other than a
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: man who's given his life to expositional preaching? So you
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: got my vote, brother.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Man, I appreciate it. You know, we'll see what happens
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: in Anaheim. It's interesting. Being an L.A. boy, you know,
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: born and raised in Los Angeles and going back, you know,
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: to my old stomping grounds to be a part of this,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: you know, historic moment. It's, I don't know, it's humbling,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: it's surreal. And I mean, I'm with you, brother. I
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: look forward to seeing what the Lord does and am
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: glad to offer all that I am and all that
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: I have to be of whatever use I can. And
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: should the Lord say the same, this would be his story.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Amen. So let's ride all the way to Anaheim, do
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: whatever God would call us to do, be joyful, cheerful, hopeful,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: courageous in the midst of it, and trust the results
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to him. Man, thanks for joining us on the Sword
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: in the Trial today. Pray for the Southern Baptist Convention.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Pray for Vody and appreciate your prayers for me as well.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: And whatever God would do that we might honor him
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: in all of our efforts. So thanks for being with
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: us today.