Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 344 - Forgive Me Father, For I Have Sinned

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 344 - Forgive Me Father, For I Have Sinned · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: H I don't know what he's up to. It's picking
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: me like chicken, shocking me like corn storwing me like
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: an ice.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you something? Honey?
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Come on, the man's trying to get some No, that's okay,
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: go ahead and ask away.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I just got to know the Kennedy assassination.
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: Did Oswald act alone?
• 0:26
  Speaker 5: Hey, that's for me to know it. I like your
• 0:35
  Speaker 5: hair in the middle with the silver hair.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: How old are you.
• 0:41
  Speaker 6: Se?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Who killed JFK? I'm not going to read all those pages.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: Who do you think killed them?
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: You think the government killed them?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 1:03
  Speaker 7: The Disruptor in Chief Elon Musk, who apparently has adopted
• 1:07
  Speaker 7: the alias at least he changed his social media handle
• 1:10
  Speaker 7: to Harry Balls, tweeted this morning, democracy in America.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Is being.
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: Yoyo.
• 1:20
  Speaker 8: It's your boy, the Tesla King, Elon Musk. The boys
• 1:24
  Speaker 8: always make my rocket shoot straight up. No, homo, you
• 1:27
  Speaker 8: bout to listen to the number one JFK related podcast
• 1:31
  Speaker 8: on Planet Mars. Now plug in your neural link for
• 1:35
  Speaker 8: two numb nuts who aren't a waste of government spending,
• 1:40
  Speaker 8: The Triple B and Joe b.
• 1:46
  Speaker 9: Isu showhow Me Show Me?
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: Joe Me showing me?
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: Sellom Joe kill we.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And here we go.
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: I love catching Joe off guard. There came in coming
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: in just a little bit early as he was taking
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: a little puff. Puff puff, you know it goes. It's
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: all good. What's up everybody. Sorry we're a little late.
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: It's totally my fault. Joe was on time. It's been
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: one of them days. Yeah no, but we're here now.
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: Thank you guys for hanging out and pay waiting and
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: talking amongst yourselves. But I promise, if you're still here,
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: you made the right decision. It's worth it. It will
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: be worth it, I promise Joe. Since she's been hanging
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: out with these people, who all is in here, let's
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: welcome the people in to our living room.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Sure, there's a bunch of them. I think tiny was
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: the first comment, and she tied it signed in with
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: her timestamp. Although I haven't seen her recently, although I've
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: been prepping.
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: Out for a second.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, she is doing God's work over there in Washington,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: DC or Virginia. We have Claude Williams here, of course,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: and of course, and youw Deane. I'm sure the double
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: B Brandon mister JSV six point fifty who said you
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: were fired Rob.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: Yes, all right, Rob your fired. Now you're rehired.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, except Rob holds all the firing and hiring capabilities,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: so it is all in his hands.
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: We have salary. I'll punish myself later if you I'll
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: do some self flagelation.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: We have Sally from across the Pond. Yes, we have Trey.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Uh Bobby thunder nuts.
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: Bobby, I believe that's mister Sally. Hello, Bobby done the nuts?
• 4:45
  Speaker 8: Hm.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: We have OPTO economists who let me let me start
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: this comment apparently, and OPTO economists shadow band over on
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: au s America's untrue stories.
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: You know nothing, Yeah, unfortunately, I know what you're talking
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: about there. Yeah.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Mark got upset after making after a comment by OPTO.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And I know this personally. Opto has really good comments
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: like not much goes by him after making him look
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: bad too many times now my comments section comments have
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: been hided.
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: You've committed immortal sin, sir, made Mark Grubert look bad.
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: Although making that happen.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Bro I told him in our book, that's a notch
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: on the You know that that's a that's a metal
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: right right?
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: South to West said Bobby is waiting for the last
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: dancer to finish at the Carousel Club. Any truth, No, No,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: it's only that was true. Yes, I hope he'd be
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: a little more than this late if that was happening.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and well they do call me the minute man Joepy.
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: Of course, I take a long time to do everything,
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: including this podcast. So what you know? What do you figure?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Slacker Dan, how are you? Uh? How do y'all?
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: And let's see anyone else. I'm sure more will trickle
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: in as they always do.
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: At the end. Here we'll get sheberd Hello, Shebird. Craig Mallory,
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: first time up in here. Hello, ohkay, Welcome in, Craig, Yeah,
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: all right, welcome for sure.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And I know we have Paula of course, one of
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: our shavorite listeners, at least one of mine.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Randall Brooks, what's up, Randy, Slacker dance in the
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: house Southwest. I'm not sure if you mentioned anyway. Welcome in,
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: Welcome in, welcome in all.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, And we also had a super chat from from
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: our favorite rocket queen, Colleen Earth. Yes we did.
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: We also have from the City Hot Sauce Ye became
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: a member at a covert operator level, Jeff.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, so I was messaging with Jeff this week
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: because I was like, yo, I actually need to re
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: up my hot sauce game, and he gave me some
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: recommendations of even a maple hobbinaro, a maple Hot Habinnaro.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: He said it wasn't even on the website yet, but
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: he has some for me, so I have to reach
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: back out to him. But we love Jeff, of course,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: and use the code Gunman if you'd like to order
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: some Silk City Hot Sauce and.
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: Wow, oh ship, here we go the Double B. Look, Joe,
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: you got another membership. It's all right.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Well, of course, the Double B gifted five memberships at
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the spook level, and the spooks have access to the
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: extra Wednesday show on the last Wednesday of the month,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: which is next Wednesday, Rob, and that would be a
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: good one this past Wednesday. A lot has happened this week.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: But thank you so much that Brandon.
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: You were nice to be Brandon. Yeah, thank you for
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: giving the folks a taste like next week, said Wednesday show.
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: You're in.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Rob, A lot has happened since last week, right.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: We had, of course, that big hearing in Congress Task
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Force Hattie hearing number.
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: Two yep, which we covered extensively this past Wednesday show.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Extensively.
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: I heard.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: You said, Joe took your time with that one. And
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: the ironic thing about that, Rob is, to myself, I
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, last hearing we went over it, it
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: was like almost an hour and a half. I was like,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I want to spend like thirty maybe forty five minutes tops.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: It went like an hour twenty.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: Yep, that's okay. Sometimes it happens, you know, sometimes, yes.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: But and part of that reason, Rob, I'm gonna give
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: people a little taste and opto a little gift here
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: talking about this guy and I cut off his Twitter
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: handle because it's not important. Mark groberte gruber bro googoots.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but he yesterday was wondering who this
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: ladies who's a missus Cole was and wondered how she
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: got on the five person panel, And if you were
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: listening to our Wednesday show, I did a little deep
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: dive on her, let's say deep state history, and you
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: would have known the answer to that question. But long
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: story short, she was like that other guy in the
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: first hearing that complained about the Social Security numbers and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: the lack of I guess discretion with some of that
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: to classifying, and it's just kind of like a deep
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: state delay tactic almost, And I think the minority member,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: which would have been Democratic dude Garcia, probably put her
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: on just like the last guy. So if you tuned
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: in Wednesday you would know. So that is all I
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: will say about that.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: I am always director around here, mister Turrnhorse. All of
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: the thumbnails are made by your boy. So yes, thank you,
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: thank you, thank you, thank you. Momo is up in
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: the house. Mhm, the other skufu the momo.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yes hey mom our user, Yes, Cami as well, and
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: uh that is definitely uh not. A woman was also
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: gifted a free membership I saw, so yeah, good ship there.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: It's the Australian for short for camouflage. I think we
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: discussed that earlier.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Yo bro really quickly. I think one of the biggest
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: YouTube accounts on YouTube just called it quits this past week.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: A lot of things have happened this past.
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: Because I told stories I wish, I wish The Outdoor Boys.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Do you know about this?
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: The Outdoor Boys.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's some guy that does like survival videos.
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: No, and he goes like forte.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: No, I agree. He has fifteen point five million followers.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: He teaches you like he goes canting and the Alaska
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: for a week. I just watched the video. He spent
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: a week with the Marine Jungle Survival Unit in Okinawa
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: or somewhere in the deep Pacific. And he has kids
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: on there, his you know, his wife, like vaguely, and
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: he's stepping away after fifteen point five million followers. And
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I know that's our next objective.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll be stepping away when we had fifteen million followers, folk,
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: considering that probably will never happen. Yeah, we'll be here
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: for a little while, you just say.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: But very interesting to give that up. I think the
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: last video had like twenty million views. And then we
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: had the former FBI director calling for eighty six ing
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: the current president in the sand.
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: Yes, welcome to bizarre world, folks. We're right is wrong?
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: He's down left us right forwards is backwards?
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, ask your doctor for a note for LSD like
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Lee harmals Wll tried to do last week.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Yes. Never, First I asked Joe, it's got to make
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: sure this is the illegal, sirve mister da before I partake, Yeah,
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: before I get started real quick checked out this cool
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: hat Doug sent me for drop D production.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Oh that is pretty sick.
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so thank you, Doug.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Doug is telling it in the merch game in these.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: Days, yeah, I mean he might be like trying to career.
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: You know. It's like a fashion designer, you know, a
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: merch guy or something. So if Doug starts opening up
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: a hat business, we're in because there's sea suckers at
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: our merch plays the quick hits. Yeah no, no, no,
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: just our merch place in Jenner spread shirt wherever, wherever
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: we do the thing. I went over there today to
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: get the steal Steal your Patsy shirt. I was like,
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: what the hell? I said, Greg just told me he
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: ordered his shirt, so I figured it was up and
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: running and everything was great.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Well, he checked the.
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: Designs and it says rejected on there.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, so you mentioned on Wednesday that it
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: was in review the last time you checked. And then
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Greg said he ordered it on Wednesday, and I was like, huh, good,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: it got it got approved and like I said, not unapproved.
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: In apparently it got rejected.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So will Greg get the copy of that fell through
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: the cracks.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: I don't know if he does. It's gonna be worth
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: some money because put it on the motherfucker with it.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, put it on eBay Greg, Yeah, who knows?
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: Mhm. All right, Joe, you're ready to kick this thing
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: off a little bit here, let's do it all right,
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: Uh before we get started into uh the father McCann stuff.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: And I'll save that for last because it's interesting.
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: I came across a couple of items, of course from
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: New Orleans, and yeah, I can't get the fuck out
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: of New Orleans, but that's okay. I was thinking about
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: titling this episode escape from New Orleans. Uh, you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: with some good escape from artwork and all that, but.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Bro with the prison escape that we briefly laughed about
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans Parish.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: Right, that could have got millions of hits.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Dude missed oppor Trinity.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: Oh well, live and learn. I found an interview with
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: Sam Newman, right, who owned the building there five point
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: forty four Camp Street, sometimes referred to as the Newman Building,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: you know, in the same building where Guy Banister had
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: his headquarters in Mancouter's Restaurant was there and the CRC
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: had their offices, right, so he said, mister newmanett Is
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: stated that when the Cuban Revolutionary Council, that's the CRC,
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: vacated the Newman Building, they failed to surrender the keys
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: to their office, adding that they had several sets of
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: keys to the office. He said that about ten days
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: or two weeks after the Cubans had moved out, he
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: had occasion to visit the Newman Building one day, and
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: on that occasion he saw a young white man unlocking
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: the floor to the office formerly occupied by the Cuban
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: revel Lutionary Council. He said, he asked this fellow what
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: he was doing, and he remarked that he was taking
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: over the offices, whereupon mister Newman told him that the
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: office had been closed and that the Cuban Revolutionary Council
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: no longer had office space in the building, and that
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: he would have to vacate the premise immediately. He said
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: there was no indications that the fellow had used the
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: office previously. Mister Newman described his individual as a white
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: male aged twenty two to twenty four, about five nine
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: and a half, about one hundred and sixty five pounds,
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: fair complexion, light brown or blondish hair, and spoke with
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: a Spanish accent allegedly, So do you think this could
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: possibly have been our boy Lee Harvey Oswald?
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Possibly? Sure?
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: Now, if it was, you know, reasonably being caught off
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: guard by mister Newman, he possibly could have said, you
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: know what me no, no, me no speaking now, indie
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: me no, I believe me no speaking now engdies Man,
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: you know, and he guy could have said, you know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: he spoke with a Mexican accent or a Spanish accent.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: I don't know. It's interesting. If it was, the question
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: becomes who gave him the keys to the Human Revolutionary Council. Now,
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: of course the main suspects would be Sergio or Kasha Smith,
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: carlos Kiroga, some various other folks. Our Nesto Rodriguez was.
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: Mister Newman stated that when last scene, Sergio or Kasha
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: Smith claimed to be selling life insurance. Now the name
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: sergeioor Casha is listed in the nineteen to the New
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: Orleans City Directory with the address of forty five to
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: twenty three du plus Us Street. Probably spelled that or
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: said that wrong, but that's okay. His wife's name is
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: known as Maurice, and his occupation is shown as clerk.
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: The above address is located in a housing development known
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: as Park Chester Apartments. Newman stated that during this interview
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: that won Jack S Martin, who lives at the same
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry lives at the corner of Esplanade Avenue and
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: North Pryor Street, had brought Sergio R. Cassius Smith, and
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: Carlos Kiruga to him and recommended them to him as
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: prospective tents to his building. Joe, So, our boy, Jack
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: s Martin brings Arkasia, Smith and Kroga to five forty
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: four Camp Street. Wasn't that nice of him? He said
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: that Martin had also brought to him Mayor Victor Shiro,
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: who happened to be Carlos Kroga's father in law. Remember
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: he married into the Shiro Yes yes family. Yes. So
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: Martin had also brought to him Mayor Victor Shiro and
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: it helped him to get a charter or permit to
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: operate in New Orleans. He said that on one occasion,
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: Kroga appeared to have a shortwave radio transmitter that he
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: was trying to repair. They tinkered around with who knows.
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: Don't worry, Zndar, You're not the only one. Hell brother, Yeah,
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: Newman stated that he has not rented any offices to
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: any new tenants in the Newman Building fo OR five
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: forty four Camp Street since September of sixty two, when
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: the Cuban Revolutionary Council vacated. Apparently, he could furnish no
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: information as to why the rubber stamp impression FPCC five
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: forty four Camp Street, New Orleans appeared in the booklet
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: The Crime against Cuba, which had been recovered from Oswald
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: when he was arrested in New Orleans on August ninth,
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: He don't know, yeah, of course, I mean, he's not
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: going to admit that he leased it to whatever Lee
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: was trying to do there.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: Newman stated that someone phoned him about three months ago.
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: Now this interview was done on December ninth, in nineteen
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: sixty three, so he's saying. Newman stated that someone phoned
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: him about three months ago, which would have been middles
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: September coming up on nineteen sixty three, and wanted to
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: rent offices for night meetings and wanted to make an
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: appointment to meet him. He said nothing ever transpired as
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: a result of this telephone call. He also stated that
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: about four or five months ago, another fellow, a white
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: male about thirty seven to thirty eight five eleven, medium build,
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: olive complexion, dark eyes, dark brown hair, came to see
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: him about renting an office which he wanted to use
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: for night classes in Spanish. He said this office rented
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: for thirty dollars a month, and the subject paid him
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: thirty dollars rental and came back the same weekend to
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: see him, he said. This fellow later told him that
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: he had not recruited sufficient students and that he no
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: longer wanted the space. He told mister Newman to keep
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: the goddamn thirty dollars which he had paid him as
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: a rental on the space. Let's see.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ournestral Rondrigez who ran
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the language school. Were lts that needed to rent rooms
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: to teach whatever they were teaching there or meeting there.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: Right, So, during late afternoon of December two, reporting agent
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: interviewed a Ronnie ker Now, if you remember Joe, the
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: Ronnie Kaer dude was part of the Committee to Free Cuba.
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: He was like their marketing and advertising guy, also part
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: of the CRC.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, one thing I've noticed rob is all
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: these people in these positions on the boards and spokes people,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: they all had different positions in different type of organizations,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: right like they were all in the same network with
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: different names. What goes to possible grift theory we talked
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: about last week and we will get into that in
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit, I promise.
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: Let's see. Mister Kerrer stated that he seemed to recall
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: Oswald applying for a job with his agency when he
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: had offices at seven O four seven O five Sigali Building,
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: corner of Camp and Canal Streets in New Orleans. He
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: said this was several months ago and about the time
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Oswald had a radio debate over radio station WDSU in
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: August of sixty three. He said this was when he
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: had seen Oswald and for that reason he could not
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: be positive in identifying Oswald's autograph that he was the
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: man he had in mind. Mister Kerr could furnish knowing
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: information R E. Oswald using five point forty four Camp
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: Street as an address. During the interview with mister Ronnie Care,
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: he stated that Sergio or Kasha may be wanted on
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: a dire act charge, and then Akasha allegedly drove a
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: car from New Orleans to Miami, snitching already on his
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: boy bro. But he's in the wrong direction.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can't plan this well enough and we didn't.
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: But uh and the.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Audio clip I will play in a little bit Kiroga
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and Garrison brings up the fact that Sergio Katya might
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: have not been in New Orleans around that time. But
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: then Garrison brings up, well, I have reports and witnesses
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: he might have came back. Well, here what kiro has
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: to say about that.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah. On December the fifth Reporting Agent interviewed a mister
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: Robert Deville, Director of Finance, It's the City of New Orleans,
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: also mister Joseph Orlash, Secretary to the Director of Finance,
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: to determine whether the Fair Play for Cuba Committee had
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: applied for any permits from the City of New Orleans
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: to operate in New Orleans. It was found that this
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: organization was not of record with the Director of Finance,
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: so Lee never tried to get any permits.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: That does not surprise me in one bit.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: Right December sixth, Special Agent in Charge Rice of the
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: Secret Service inquired of FBI Special Agent Paul Alcore of
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: New Orleans as to the results of any investigation which
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: they may have conducted in an attempt to connect Lee
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee with
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: the address five forty four Camp Street. Alcher advised that
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: they had checked this angle out thoroughly, but with negative results.
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: The overall investigation with reference to Lee Harvey Oswald is
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: being continued at New Orleans, and in the event any
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: information is developed, we will place him, which would place
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: him at five point forty four Camp Street in New Orleans.
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: It will be the subject of another report on its own.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: So at that point there's still there's still a looking
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: right now, keep in mind, Joe, we're gonna have some
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: crazy dates here when you think about what's being what's
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: going on. So November twenty seventh, nineteen sixty three, this
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: is five days after the assassination, three days after Oswald
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: is shot dead in the basement, Carlos Brigner. This is
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: an FBI memorandum from Specialized John Reynolds. And this is
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: again November twenty seventh, nineteen sixty three, Carlos Brgner of
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: the Cuban Student Directorate, operator of the Costa Roka clothing store,
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: one of the seven Decatur Street advised that on August
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: the fifth, Oswald came into his store and gave him
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: a marine guidebook, stating he was an ex marine who
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: could fight against Castro if needed, and could help train gorillas.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: He put his hand in his pocket as if to
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: contribute money to the Cuban Student Director, but Brgier says
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: that he stopped him and said, hold on, man, what
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: are you doing. She got in your pocket, bro, and
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: told him he cannot accept any contributions. No no, no
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: to the Cuban Student Director. No no, no, no no
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: no no Leally, mister marine, no no, no, I cannot
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: accept any donations from you, sir. Oswald told him not
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: to lie about it. That quote, we can infiltrate you,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: at which time Brgier became suspicious of Oswald and would
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: talk no more with him. I have no idea who
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: he means by we, Well, it's in quotes that we,
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: in quotes can infiltrate you. And this is directly after
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: he's saying, you know, Oswall put his hand in his
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: pocket as if and Briner is inferring that he was
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: going to donate to the cause, and he stopped him.
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: He said, no, no, no, mister, no, no, no, I cannot
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: accept any donations. And Oswald's next line out of his
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: mouth is Oswald told him not to lie about it.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: Don't you lie about it, that you're not taking no money.
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: We can infiltrate you anytime.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I have a couple of problems with that, Rob. I
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: don't think Oswalt or I don't think Brignier would reject
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: a donation. And you have to take into consideration what
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Brigner and his friends were saying on the eve or
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: on the ninety the assassination and on the twenty third,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: and what propaganda they are skewing. So I think you
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: have to look at it through that lens, right, this
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: is coming from Brignier. Yes, okay.
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: He stated he again saw Oswald on August ninth, when
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: Oswald was arrested after Oswald tried to distribute Fair Play
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: for Cuba Committee handbills on Canal Street. When he again
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: saw Oswald, he said it Oswald's trial in municipal court
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: August twelfth, nineteen sixty three, and then saw him at
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: six pm on August twenty first, at the debate in
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: which Oswald participated over radio station WDSU in New Orleans.
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: Brignier claims he has no information regarding anyone named Haidel,
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: anyone named Jack Ruby or Jack Rubinstein, nor any other
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: information regarding the fair Play for Keepa committee in New Orleans.
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: He stated that the two anti Castro Cubans arrested on
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: August ninth with him in the altercation with Oswald had
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: only that contact with Oswald. I think what he's trying
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: to say is they had never seen him before either.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: Bringie stated that he had learned from talking with Oresta's Penia,
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: his neighbor and proprietor of the Havana Bar at one
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: seventeen Decatur Street, that Oswald was apparently in the bar
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: Joe sometime between the fifteenth and thirtieth of August nineteen
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: sixty three with a Mexican individual name not known. This
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: Mexican was later seen in the bar with another Mexican.
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: He also said that from talking with the Penia, Oswald
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: may have frequented the restaurant on the corner of Iberville
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: and Decatur Streets. So there Carlos Bringna roberating what Rispania
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: had been saying. And I don't know if they had
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: been in touch with Orspenia this early, you know, November
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: twenty seventh, so corroborates what arrest Paenia said later, because
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: nobody ever tied them two together, you know, or that early, right, Yeah,
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: because of course the whole arrest Paenia story is that
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: you know he was he was ane working as an
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: informant for Debris, right, and then you know Oswald had
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: been in his bar several times with a Mexican in
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: the company of Mexican or Mexicans. Yeah, he tried to
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: order a lemonade or something, remember, at the end of
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: the whole thing.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: But he was a valued or at least he was
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: a believed FBI informant Pinia. Yes, I mean like he
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: It's not like he's some random Skaffusa giving giving a
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: statement to an informant.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: He was informant, yes.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And I believe the two scafusas with Bregna were Oh
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: my god, was is salso Hernandez who you talked about recently,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: right And Miguel Cruz, Yes, Miguel Manuel Cruz yes, and yes, yes,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: we will get into that soon. I bring that up
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: because I'm hiding the lead here, so burying the lead.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: As they say, now what's interesting is that or not.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: Sergio Carlos Brigney stated that he was the only member
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: of the DRE in New Orleans. I'm not sure how
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: much of a true statement that is.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: I think he was the like the leading figure, like
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the spokes person for lack of a better word, in
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: New Orleans for the DRA. I don't think he was
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the only one.
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: I don't think he was the only member either. No,
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: but because the FBI was.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Well right, well, because you know very well, Rob, the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: FBI was was clamping down on these guys in Miami
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and all over the place in Miami, I mean, no
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: one can move in Miami, State of County orders everything.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: So a couple of the people went to New Orleans
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to try to operate there and trying to stand with
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: the radar.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and then, uh, this is all right. I found
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: a little bit more from our Martin series, Joe, A
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: little update for everybody. Yeah, I wish you would have
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: had this document back then because it goes into a
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: lot more detail about one of our Jack Martin's.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah this is new to me. Yes, that's the audience.
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: This is a secret service document that was written on
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: December fourth, nineteen sixty three, but it covers the period
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: of November twenty second, nineteen sixty three to December second,
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: and it is a report done up by Special Agent
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: Anthony Surrettes and Special Agent Adrian Vile Hum.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know those names.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: Well, you might know the special agent in charge. His
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: name is John Rice. Yes, showed up on a lot
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: of these New Orleans Secret Service documents, right yep. Now,
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: these times, Joe, are insane. I don't think we emphasized
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: this much. So this document, like I said, written up
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: by the Secret Service on December four to sixty three states.
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: And this is a synopsis of their investigation. Okay, And
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: I'll just read this synopsis and then we'll get into
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: the details. Investigation at New Orleans disclosed that Lee Harvey
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: Oswald was arrested by the New Orleans Police Department on
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: August ninth. I'm sorry, yeah, August ninth, sixty three, for
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: having been involved in a brawl, a brawl with three
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: Cuban anti castrotes while he was handing out literature in
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: the seven hundred block of Canal Street that same date.
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: The literature pertaining to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: which organization was supporting Castro. Oswald lived in a small
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: apartment at four nine oh seven Magazine Street in New
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Orleans from May ninth until roughly September two, twenty fourth,
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three. His wife reportedly left a few days
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: prior to Oswald, allegedly going to Texas to have her
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: second baby. A woman in the station wagon bearing a
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: Texas license plate is said to have come to the
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: Oswald apartment for the purpose of picking up missus Oswald
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: and driving her and her baby to Texas. True, Oswald
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: remained on in this in the apartment, but moved unexpectedly
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: one night, owing about ten days back. Rent. Now here's
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: the details of the investigation. At one forty pm on
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, Joe, what was happening
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: in Dallas?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Was the time? Again?
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: On forty pm?
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I mean he's probably already got arrested around in the
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Texas theater.
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: Well, it's about that time, like all this shit is
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: going on right about then.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: The tippet was allegedly one pm, but we know it
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: was much later than that. Human.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: No, it was allegedly one sixteen pm.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, that that was time of death, right right, one
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: ten yes, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: So roughly about one point thirty one forty Oswall is
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: getting arrested in the Texas Theater. Kay, let's keep that
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: in mind. At one forty pm on November twenty second,
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: reporting agent received a long distance telephone call from Clerk
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: Lillian Ryan of our Dallas office, so the Dallas Office
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: of the Secret Service at TFBI. Secret Service stated that
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: she was calling at the request of Special Agent Robert A.
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: Stewart of Dallas regarding an individual named jaf Martin Route
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: one Goldna, Louisiana, on whom Special Agent Stewart desired discreet
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: inquiries conducted at that time. Clerk Ryan indicated that she
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: did not have any information regarding the said Jack Martin
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: and did not know what connection, if any, he might
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: have had with the shooting of President John F. Kennedy
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: that same date at Dallas. So how in the sam
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: hell at one let's say, roughly before or after, I
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: mean or right at the same time as Oswald's being
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: arrested in Dallas, does somebody at the Secret Service office
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: in Dallas requesting somebody in Louisia from the Secret Service
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: check out a guy named Jack Martin at a specific
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: address rather Old Donna.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Is the only way plausible way to me as a tip,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: a call or information from a CEI.
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, who knows. I mean this is literally an hour
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: after the assassination went down.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: I mean keep that in mind as well. Hm hmm.
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: But if you had a tip, Joe, and you were
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: about it was about somebody in Louisiana, wouldn't you call
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: the Louisiana Office of the Secret Service and not the
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: Dallas office unless you were in Texas.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Unless you're in Texas on p Yeah, in.
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: Theory, hm hmm. Interesting, But that's not all folks, remember,
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: keep these times in mind. At two six pm on
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, Clerk Ryan again called
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: the reporting agent, advising that at that time it was
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: thought that possibly Jack Martin may have been the assassin
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: of President Kennedy. At two o six pm, an hour
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: and a half after the assassination, she calls back and
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: states that possibly Jack Martin may have been the assassin
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: of President Kennedy. She could furnish no information regarding Jack
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: Martin's description or background, knowing only that his address was
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: reported at Route one in Gldonna Louisiana, and that it
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: was desired that discreet inquiry he's regarding Martin be conducted
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: at Goldona at once. Reporting agent immediately telephone Special Agent
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: and Charge John Rice, who happened to be on an official,
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: unaffir I'm sorry, an official road trip to guess where, Joe.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Someplace in Louisiana, possibly the birth or the hometown of
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: one of our favorite members, mister Trey. That would be Shreveport.
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: Possibly you got it, sir, he was on an official
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: trip to Shreveport.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Rice was, yeah, okay, got it.
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: Guess who else was in Shreveport on November twenty second,
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Joe, that would be General Walker Ding Ding Ding.
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: You are two for two tonights? Are you're killing Amana?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I know I had some time to a couple extra minutes.
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: In the northeast or I'm sorry, northwest section of Louisiana,
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: approximately three hundred and twenty five miles from New Orleans,
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: so they're a long way away. Is from Nola, Baby,
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: Goldona being located in the Cachetocius Parish Joseph in the
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: northwest section of Louisiana.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Wow, I don't say that made me say that three
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: times no.
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: Special Raising in Charge Rice was located at the Office
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: of Special Investigations at Barksdale Air Force Base near Shreveport.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Trays already on it Erie before you even said that.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: He said Barksdale Air Force.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: Base Bingo, and was informed of the above mentioned request
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: that discrete inquiries be conducted at once in Goldonna regarding
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: Jack Martin. It was explained to Rice that it was
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: desired the results of the investigat at Goldonna be telephoned
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: immediately to the Dallas office of the Secret Service. So
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: at approximately nine thirty pm on November twenty second, nineteen
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: sixty three, Reporting Agent received a telephone call at his
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: residence from Special Agent in Charge Rice, who was calling
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: from Natchetotius, Louisiana. Rice stated that he had conducted a
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: discrete inquiry at Goldonna regarding Jack Martin and had telephoned
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: the results to Special Agent Robert Stewart in Dallas. And
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: during this telephone conversation Stewart finished the follower furnished the
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: following information regarding one Lee Harvey Oswald, who had already
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: been arrested in Dallas for having fired the shots which
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: killed President Kennedy. So nothing to see here, folks, we
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: got our man right. Lee Harvey Oswald, a white male
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: dated birth ten, eighteen thirty nine at New Orleans five
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: ninety pounds, Social Security number four thirty three five four
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: three seventy three nine airman of the Fair Play for
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: Cuba Committee in New Orleans, filed a change of address
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: with the Post Office Department in Dallas on May the
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: fifteen sixty three to two forty nine oh seven Magazine
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: Street in New Orleans and owner about eleven two sixty three,
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: rented a PO box in Dallas. Special Agent in charge
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: Wright stated that it was desired that an immediate investigation
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: be started in New Orleans in an effort to develop
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: as much information as possible regarding Lee Harvey Oswald. Reporting
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: agent immediately telephone Special Agent Adrian Vile at his residence
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: with request that he meet me at the office asap,
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: accompanied by a special agent. Vile. Reporting agent called the
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: New Orleans Police Department Bureau of Identification the night of
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: eleven twenty two, where we checked their records on Lee
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald, whose address was shown as four to nine
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: oh seven Magazine Street. The record showed Oswald's FBI numbers
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: three two seven nine two five D. His FBI fingerprint
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: return showed that his fingerprints had been contributed by the
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: Marine Corps on October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty six. The
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: records also reflected that Oswald had been arrested by the
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: New Orleans Police Department on August ninth on the charge
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: of disturbing the peace by creating a scene. The arrest
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: was shown to have been made by Lieutenant Gayo and
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: other officers of the New Orleans Police Department, First District
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: Police Station. Oswald's occupation was listed then as a mechanic.
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: Now there's a note at the bottom of this report
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: here from Harold Wiseberg that says, these two reports were
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: called to my attention by Robert Richter. Jack Martin is
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: the name of an associate of Guy Banister, a former
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: FBI agent who operated in New Orleans Detective Agency, and
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: it was connected with many of the characters in the
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: story of Oswald in New Orleans. The Jack Martin of
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: these reports was an immediate s may have been the
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: assassin in quotes. Once Oswald was arrested, all interest and
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: Jack Martin as a suspect in the assassination disappeared. This
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: matter is ignored in the report and in the testimony. Interesting.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a couple thoughts here. Yeah, it's ridiculous
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: for Jack Martin to get let me use this term
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: dimed out at around one forty five before two o'clock
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: on the twenty.
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: Second by somebody who didn't know shit.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Do you think what I was going to bring up is,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: do you think Martin thought he was possibly dimed out
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: by Ferry and that's why he shortly after gave up
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Ferry and told told the authorities about him.
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: Well, if you remember, Joe, the original person who dimed
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: out Jack Martin originally was a guy named Hardy Davis.
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: W Hardy Davis. He as soon and I wish I
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: had that document in front of me with the Times
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: on it. But on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: he was diming out Jack Martin. And I don't know
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: if it was because well, that would have happened the
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: whole Banister Martin thing would have happened the evening of
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: the twenty second after the assassination, or late afternoon whatever. Yeah,
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: but I think it was the next day that Hardy
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: Davis dropped a dime like hmm. But I'd have to
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: go back and look in somebody.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: And we've read that document before here you have.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: Now, maybe maybe somebody called and tipped the Dallas office
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: off that Jack Martin from Louisiana was involved in the assassination, right,
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: And maybe that's all they said, Maybe this Jack W.
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: Martin who they wanted to check out and go, Donna, Bro.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: You took the words out of my mouth.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: Continue, maybe this guy was on some kind of a
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: radar or watch list by the secret serface and when
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: they checked their indices for Jack Martin, this was the
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: guy that popped up and not the guy in New Orleans.
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: You see what I'm saying.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: I I that one hundred percent possible to possible they
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: didn't know exactly. I'm mean, how much trouble did we
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: go through trying to figure out which Martin's were which
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: six months? They had a couple hours maybe, if not a.
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: Couple of minutes, right, So it's very interesting.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great that's a great point. Man. I
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: could totally see because it was a secret service who
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: went out to check on the Jack W.
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: Martin, Right, Yeah, this whole thing is secret service.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Right, But that would make sense based on the tip
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: they received.
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: Right, you know, a tip probably came into them, right.
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: You know, they're not the FBI, they're not the New
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: they're not Dallas PD or New Orleans p D. They're
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: their own entity, right.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have their own informants like the FBI.
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: At this time, it's been an hour, hour and a
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: half after the assassination. You know, the FBI is crawling
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: through their asshole trying to do something. The dpd's busy.
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: You know, they still haven't caught a suspect, if you will.
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: At this point, there's no way that secret service could
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: have gotten that. They didn't have time to get with
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: the FBI or the Dallas PD before, you know, sending
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: this out, sending this back to New Orleans, you know,
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: for Stewart and Dallas, be like, hey, you know, call
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: New Orleans or call Louisiana and tell him to check
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: on Jack Martin. You know, we have here an address
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: for a rout one gold Donna. Maybe this guy was
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: a nut job who'd wrote letters to the you know,
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: to a president or threatened him in the past, and
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: it just so happened because it's such a common name.
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: Jack Martin, John Martin, whatever, you know, they thought it
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: was this son of a bitch.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a great explanation to what
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I possibly what could have possibly happened. Cammy said, I
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: know so many Martin's around South Louisiana. They're as common
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: as fleas. Yeah, if preachers of the choir again.
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: Because this guy, so to follow up a little bit
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: with that, because it's been a while, folks since we
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: did Martin thing. And this is the Rice report. So
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: this is he says. Approximately on two pm on November
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: twenty second, while at Barksdale Air Force Base in Bojier City, Louisiana,
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: I received a telephone call from Special Agent Anthony Gretz
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans, and he advised that he had just
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: received a telephone call from Lillian Ryan in Dallas, who
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: stated that Robert Stewart had requested that this office conduct
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: discreet inquiries relative to Jack Martin Route one gold Donald, Louisiana,
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: who had at the time was considered a possible suspect
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: in the assassination of Press and Kennedy. No further info
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: was then available to Clerk Ryan, so he says, I
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: immediately proceeded to Goldonna, arriving at approximately five pm and
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: interviewed missus irene somebody can't read it, the postmaster, and
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: a mister G. C. Quarrels, the rural carrier, and Willie Krainer,
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: comes Constable and Deputy Sheriff, all of whom were well
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: acquainted with. Jack Martin, son of Ben and Thelma Martin,
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: of Route one, Box four, GOLDNNA. The Martin family had
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: resided in this area for a great many years. The
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: family is poor and Ben Martin is a worker in
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: the logging business in this back roads community. Jack Martin
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: report grew up in the community and did not finish
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: high school for several years. The subject has been traveling
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: around the country and apparently has been connected with an
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: unidentified religious.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Cult, the Fake Bishop Cult.
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: It has been rumored, according to mister Quarrels, that Martin
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: desires to be a preacher.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: They that's the same Jack Martin.
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: For sure, it's not, but we'll get there.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: It sounds like the Jack Martin that we know went
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: to Kentucky. Yeah, faiship thing ferry, all that stuff we've
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: talked about.
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: Sorry. Constable Fraser said that apparently Martin had never been
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: in any trouble in Goldna. Or the Vicinity, but he
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: did leave the area about eight or ten years ago.
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: It was gone for several years. He said he had
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: heard that he was either in the armed forces or
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: possibly in prison in another.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: State, or mentally.
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: Martin reportedly had never married, and so far as known,
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: he has never been officially employed or gainfully employed. He
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: is communicating. He has communicated with his parents by mail
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: from various places throughout the country and always uses a
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: general delivery address. He reportedly has been in Massachusetts, New Jersey, California, Texas,
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: and other states. Constable Fraser said he last saw Martin
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: and gold Donna approximately three or four weeks ago. Rural
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: carrier Charles Quarrels said that he believed that Martin's mother
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: had been writing to him in Texas City, unrecalled recently.
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: All the persons interviewed indicated that Martin is quiet and
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: does not have any close friends in the area. He
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: apparently does not hunt, he does not fish, and is
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: not interested in sports. There was no indication that he
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: had a gun or a rifle. He is said to
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: be neat in appearance and rather soft spoken. Constable Fraser
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: said that a brother of Bobby Martin, aged nineteen years
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: has been a problem in the community. Jack Martin is
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: described as follows, white male, twenty five to thirty five,
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: six to five eight, one hundred and fifty pounds, dark eyes,
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: dark hair, olive complexion, stocky build. So this is not
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: the same guy in New Orleans, Joe, this is not
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: Jack Martin. Okay. At Nashatosha's Louisiana, inquiries were made at
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: the Sheriff's office and no record for Jack Martin was located.
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: At approximately nine pm on November twenty second, I contacted
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: Robert Stewart and furnishing him the results of the investigation.
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: That's when he advised me to Lee Harvey Oswald had
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: been arrested in Dallas in connection with the assassination. He
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: said that Oswald, who was connected with the Fair Play
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: for Cuba committee in New Orleans, had filed change of
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: address blah blah, blah blah. I contacted Sergeant Garrett's by
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: telephone at his residence at nine thirty pm on eleven,
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: twenty two, sixty three and requested that he and Viile
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: conducted media investigation, which they did in New Orleans. So
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: I just thought that that little additional tidbit on Jack W.
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: Martin and how he somehow came on the radar at
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: one forty. Now, actually it was earlier than that because
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: obviously had to come on the radar. John Rice was
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: contacted at one forty, So these people had to gather
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: the information, figure out what do with it, and then
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: dispatch this call at So obviously Jack Martin's name is
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: being mentioned in connection with the assassination in Dallas less
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: than an hour after the assassination, safe to say, yeah,
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: whatever it was was reported to the Dallas Secret Service office,
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: not the FBI, not Dallas PD Secret Service.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you fooled me, Rob, I was thinking you
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: were going towards uh, Jack S Martin, of course Edward Suggs.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: But you know, and I just wanted to bring this
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: up since you just mentioned it. This is from our
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Jack W. Martin folder, right, A suspect in the assassination
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: prior in capital letters to arrest of Lee Harvey Oswalt
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: on eleven seven, twenty second sixty three. And Thelma, just
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: like you said, right now, preacher, did you just read this?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: But it's exactly what we have in our files on
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Jack W. So it does seem like it's a weird coincidence, Rob,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: because we know Jack s Barton William Suggs, private investigator
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: for Banister, allegedly had had some aspect had some interaction
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: with Oswalt, which, of course, if you go back to
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: the JFK movie, not saying you can take that as bible,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: but you know, I could write a book about the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: things I've seen here this summer, right, paraphrasing. They were
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: after some Jack Martin on the twenty second, that's for sure, yep.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: And again you had Jack Martin introducing Sergeio or Kasha
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: and Cairoga prior to nineteen sixty one, introducing them to
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: Sam Newman and getting them their office space in at
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: five point forty four Camp Street. You can't make this
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: shit up. It could have been anybody in New Orleans
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: showing these guys where to rent office space anywhere in
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: New Orleans. But it was Jack Martin, and it happened
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: to be where guy Banister had his office. Of course,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: So out of all the people and all the places,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 5: there's another coincidence, folks, Just saying.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Something makes me think that initial tip with Jack W.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Martin might have been possibly even more relevant because he
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: mentioned the fair Play for Cuba committee? Right, you said, Yeah,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: how would he know about that? This random guy? Was
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: he a couple one hundred miles outside of New Orleans.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: I know they have to drive a long way to him.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Jack w don't know, bro, how does he know about
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: the fair Play for Cuba committee?
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: That is, well, I don't think he knew it at
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: that time. I mean they you know, it was when
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: he got back to when it was nine thirty that
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: night after Oswald's arrest, when they and he called to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: report that he had found nothing, that he had done
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: his discreet investigation of this Jack Martin, if you will,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: and found nothing. That's when the guy in Dallas told
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: them all, don't worry about it, that we arrested somebody
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: named Lee Harvey Oswald. But apparently he's got a bunch
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: of bullshit going on in New Orleans, including the fair
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: Play for QUB committee nonsense. He was arrested in you know,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah. Go back to New Orleans and down
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: investigation on Lee overy Oswald. Just forget all about Jack Martin.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah you see what I'm saying.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Wow, that was a good find, sir, That is
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: a really good find.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 5: Interesting tidbits from New Orleans. So Joe, let's get into
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: some more shite from New Orleans.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, lots to do it. And uh, you know what, Rob,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to play a couple seconds.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: Of you, of me, of you, widow old me, little
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: of you at.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Less than forty eight about forty eight hours ago, and
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: this is this is going to lead into what I'm
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: going to talk about Carlos Keidroga and some possible grifting
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: that was going on in New Orleans. That that, of
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: course you went over last week and it was a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: really interesting theory and I've been thinking about it all
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: week and I had left for my hockey game by
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: the time you went over this document. So I'm just
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: going to play like one minute of it and then
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: and we'll have a segue into my segment here.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: Interesting. Now, the reason I find these groups interesting, and
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: like I said, I would kind of tied it into
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: the grift, right, So I came across a Crusade to
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: Free Cuba bulletin for its members. Okay, now, this bulletin
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: is a call to arms in office for the Crusade
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: to Free Cuba will be maintained and established in Gallier Hall.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: Second floor Old City Hall Monday January fifteenth through Friday
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 5: January nineteenth, for the purpose of handing out workers' kits
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: for the city wide solicitation. So what they are gearing
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: up to do is a fund raising drive, a city
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: wide New Orleans fund drive. You are urged to pick
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: up a worker's kit and other information from this headquarters
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: during the period so that you can participate in the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: city wide drive. The drive Captains meeting will be held
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: at ten thirty am on Monday, January fifteenth. You are
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: urged to attend if you are a drive captain. Volunteer
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: Workers Meeting at ten thirty am Friday, January nineteenth, you
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: are urged to attend. If you would like to be
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 5: involved in this fund drive, you are urged to attend.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: There will be a parade at eleven am on Canal
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: starting at Canal and Elk's Place on Saturday, January twentieth.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: The citywide drive will take place on Saturday January twentieth
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: and Sunday, January twenty first. Volunteer workers are urgently needed.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: Please pick up your kits and secure as many of
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: your friends as possible to help turning in collections. Collections
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: should be turned into drive captains or directly to collection
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: headquarters or Grimadar at eight eleven, and of them call okay.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: So you were talking about additional possible grifts and the
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: Cuban Freedom Council theyre doing like a parade in the
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: through New Orleans gathering money. So that made me think,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: what if Oswalt, based on his history and you know,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: his his his past legend, if you will, what if
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: he tried to corner possibly the pro Castro side of
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: that as in New Orleans in nineteen sixty three, as
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: we're going to read in a second, there were so
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: many different Cuban exile and right wing and freedom organizations,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to get into a couple more in
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: a second, it would make sense if Oswalt realized, well,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: you know, he's out of a job at this point,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: what if I use my background to you know, make
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: money and get money from the pro Cuban inside.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: And that is an excellent point, Joe, because like you
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: just said, there's so many anti Castro keeping groups fundraising
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: that you know, they're all like drowning each other out,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 5: like one can't take over. You know, people aren't going
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: to contribute to five different anti Castro organizations, you know
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: what I'm saying. Yeah, And there wasn't a pro Castro
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: organization at the time in New Orleans. So it is
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: a good idea that I was well, may have had
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: the idea to go pro Cuba, because hey, he knows
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: a lot about it. He knows a lot about Castro.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: He lived in Communist Russia for three years, right, Yeah,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 5: he was just banking on them. Nobody ever finding out that.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: Oh before that, he was in the Marine Corps for
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: three years, serving his country proudly.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. And and when we went over some
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: of the letters that he wrote during the summer of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three last week, what did he ask for
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: every single time? Free literature?
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, free literature.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: What can you do if you possibly sell literature or
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: that or give it out for free but then charge
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: a membership, it's a kind of a scam.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 5: And ah, well, the literature is the worm. If you're fishing,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 5: the literature is the worm, right, Right. The fish are
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: the people you want to hook that you could potentially
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: make money off of, right And if they if you
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 5: throw enough worms out there, something is gonna bite and
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 5: then you reel them in. You know, you blow a
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 5: bunch of hot air up. They asked about what you're
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: gonna do, and da da da da da so that
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: they feel comfortable enough to join your organization or contribute
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: to it. I mean, look, folks, and we'll get more
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: into this after Joe's done. But it wasn't just the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 5: anti Castro Cubans doing this. You remember what Lauren Hall
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: and Jerry Heming were doing. They were doing the same thing,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: but they were fishing in a very small pond for
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: big fish. The Cubans are doing it in a very
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: big pond with a bunch of small fish small money. Okay, Now,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: if you're you know, if you're educated, white guy in
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 5: mine is thinking, Okay, I can do this, but how
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: can I do it bigger and better? When you have
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 5: access to people like General Walker, Lester Logue, all these
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: big money investors, doctor Stanley Drinnan in California. You've got
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: big money backing these causes because they've bought in and
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 5: believed in it. You know, you know, Lauren Hall and
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: Himing at different times, met with General Walker to obtain
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: funding for raids on Cuba, promising something that they would
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: never deliver and.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Vidala, Santiago in November of nineteen sixty three. It's a
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: general Walker's.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 5: It's all a big grift, why do you think? And
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: I was reading through and again this I come into
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: play a little bit later, but I read an interview
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: or report in the FBI about because they were trying
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: to figure out who the hell went to see Sylvia Odio. Right,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 5: of course, Lawrence Hall's name popped up. Lawrence Howard's name
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: popped up, William Seymour's name popped up, Celio Castro Album's
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: name pops up, right, h So, and they're saying, you know,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: Lawrence Howard was working at the time for an electric company,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: and he said that that Hall came to him, uh,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: you know, and wanting him, wanted him to go to
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: uh Florida with him, or you know, via you know,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: through Dallas, through New Orleans eventually to Florida blah blah blah.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: And at the time Hall was married or I'm sorry,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: Howard was married and had two daughters. So if you
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 5: have a job and you're providing for your family and
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 5: some nut job, according to him, comes to you and says, hey, man,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: why don't you ride with me across the country and
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: along the way, we're gonna make some stops and then
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: we're gonna train in Florida to go attack Castro in
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: Cuba with a bunch of our friends.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Doesn't seem worth the risk.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: What in your right mind is saying that's a good
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: idea unless the pitch is much different, unless the pitch
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: is Hey man, you know me, I'm a good shit talker.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: Me and you man, we can convince these people that
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 5: we're really gonna do something. We can build them out
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: of thousands of dollars. Yeah, I got the contacts for
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: these guys. You know, I got to contact for this guy,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: big money. All we gotta do is show up, talk
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: to him, get him to rise a check. We are
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: golden type of thing. They're all doing it. They're all
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: doing it. None of these anti Castro Cubans are legit
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: planning on going back on a gunboat to Cuba to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: try to fight Castro.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Few of them are a few of them.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 5: They're all scared to death of Castro. Yeah, they know
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 5: he's a freaking mad man. They know they'll kill his
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: f your family, whoever's back in Cuba if you even
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: try something.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that operation thinking one ship or taking
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: out one guard post is not gonna take out Castro.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: No nose.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: You can get a win, you get a small win
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: at best.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 5: When Caruga was talking to Garrison and Garrison was trying
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: to convince him to testify at the grand jury hearing
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: against against clay Shaw with what he knew, he said, look, man,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: I'm afraid they're gonna kill my f and mother who
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: are still in Cuba. He didn't want to be identified
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 5: in FBI reports because he was worried about his family
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 5: back in Cuba. These guys aren't hopping on any gunboats
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: or rafts or anything else with some shitty ass rifles
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: and a couple of bottles of aspirin and heading to
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 5: Cuba to try to kill Castro. They're not doing it,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 5: but they're raising money with the promise of doing it. Yeah,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 5: somewhere down the road. And that day never comes.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: For sure. That day did not come. So one of
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: the thoughts I had, Rob and let me bring up
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: my little has actually wrote this down Like you mentioned,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: oswalt'z FPCC grift if you will, ended or was exposed
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: after the August twenty first or whatever it was thing
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: bringing a sixteenth I can't remember, right, he leaves New
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: Orleans about a month later.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 5: But what if.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Whatever happened to Mexico City And we touched on this
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: a little members only, but Mexico City is a huge
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: rabbit hole. What if that was the last ditch attempt
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: to use Lee's possible pro castro legend to get something
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: out of it, whether it's getting into Cuba or the
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: plotters had their own agenda, like let's make sure Lee
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: goes and meets with Costakov or maybe gets them going
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: in and out of the Russian in Cuban at embassy.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Of course, we know that those pictures never surfaced. We
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: know the audio tapes were almost certainly in impersonation. I think,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Rob and I've gone a lot of thought of this
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: sort of the past week. There were grifters on both
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: sides one hundred I think, and like like Oswald and
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: Ferry right and our boy, we end off every show
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: with Dino right, grifter right lawyer for the scaffoozas and
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: New Orleans right the homosexual. You know, people, what if Oswalt,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: being the grifter that he was, got himself into trouble
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: right doing his grifting, but might have gotten intertwined with
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: the most dangerous grifters, which were Urnesta Rodriguez, Carlos bring A,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Emilio Rodriguez, and wrote, Yeah, yeah, what if he was
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: grifting too hard and actually came up against actual grifters.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: I'm saying everyone Oswald came in contact with in New
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Orleans in nineteen sixty three was CI or FBI. I said,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: run for it.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 5: Everyone all all about the money all the time.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm saying, I think, but to your.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: Point, Joe, the grift, you know, is what you're saying
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 5: turns into something else, right, That's exactly And Warren Hall
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 5: himself mentions it in an interview. He said that we
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 5: were there in Lester Low's office, you know, talking about,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 5: you know, raising money for want to fight Castro, and
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 5: somebody threw out a number saying I'd put fifty thousand dollars,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 5: you know, in a kitty to go kill President Kennedy.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: H Well, one grift possibly have ways another, you know
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: what I'm saying. So if you're promising to do if
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 5: you can promise to do that, then your grift just
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 5: changed and becomes a whole lot more serious. And what's
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 5: not going on delivering and somehow it came true. It
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 5: wasn't just a grift anymore, but possibly it grew to
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: something out of your hands, you know, like like this
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 5: specific instance, like maybe somebody got wind of the grift.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, JM wave maybe and and back.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 5: Dropped, you know, this grift into a real life scenario.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: An operation within an operation, operation within a grift.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 5: Just saying it's it's this thing can get crazy when
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: you think about it. Yeah, I think.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: I think that's why we struggle so much to figure
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: out what the hell was going on in the world
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty three, right Oswald? Was he was he
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: playing or was he trying to, you know, get communists
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: out for for Banister? Or was he actually you know
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: how it's it goes so deep and there's so many
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: levels of back and forth, and and that's been to.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 5: The level that Oswald was being out and about. You know,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 5: he was he was handing out these these these pamphlets
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 5: on the docks, you know, to navy.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Guys getting off the ship.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, getting off the ship. You know, we didn't they
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: didn't catch him on video. Every time he's handing the
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: leaflets out. You know what I'm saying, he did it
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: the day was got arrested. He did it a week
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: later in front of it, in front of the building
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 5: place all worked in, in front of the trademark on
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: the corner. Yeah. You know, he could have done it
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 5: possibly other times, we don't know about, right.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, at least once in Dallas, I think too.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: But before he went to New Orleans as well.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 5: There's no there's no proof that he did in Dallas.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: That's the thing, because I mentioned there's somebody asked if
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 5: he had written any letters to the Fair Play for
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: Cuba Committee after he went back to Dallas after Mexico City,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 5: and the answer is no. I told you all the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 5: shit stopped at the end of AUGUSTA.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And when I brought it up last week, we
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: we we showed a couple letters that were forwarded to
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: the Communist Party that guy Arnold, and I think he
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: might have wrote maybe the Russian embassy or Cuban embassy
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: or both, or trying to get Marina back. But in
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: terms of the FPCC, I don't think that continued after
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: New Orleans, so a possible grift attempt was over. But
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: did Oswald closed in New Orleans on the on TV?
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: Did he expose, get exposed and get intertwined with the
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: wrong type of people who have the connections with, say
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: or National Rodriguez, his brother, a legendary agent, Emilia Rodriguez.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: Did he get intertwined with the type of people who
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: you don't want to grift with and then was framed?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 5: Well, look we know. Later the following year, following the assassination,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 5: Carlos Brigna is on tour with General Walker speaking at
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 5: right wing events, talking all about the Harvey Oswell, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they tried to use it, for sure,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: and both the Cuban exiles and the far right were
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: very intertwined as well, for sure, as we know, so
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: very very hard to tell what's going on. But I
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: want to read a paragraph or two from the Oswald
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: Puzzle there, Rob, Yes, Larry Hancock, and David Boylin. And
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: if you were listening to this and you have no
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: ordered ordered it, I know almost all of our members have,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: you are missing out because this is probably the best
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: book on Oswalt out there. It might not you might
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: not like everything it says in it, but it's it's
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: amazingly researched. So I'm going to read a paragraph called
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: tight rope walking, and it talks about Oswalt in New
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: Orleans and his activities. I'm going to hold this up
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: for Larry and David. Actually no, because the sound the
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: Warrant Commission gave relatively little attention to Oswalt's activism in
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: New Orleans as part of its presentation of his character,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: possibly because it did not fit the picture it was painting.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: His demonstrations for the FPCC were organized and mild mannered.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: When angrily approached my anti Castro Cubans, he remained non
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: confrontational and refused to become violent. In his media appearances
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: on radio and in a broadcast debate debate, he came
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: across as literate, well spoken, and not aggressive in his beliefs.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: He was invited to give a speech on his experiences
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: in the Soviet Union I think to Tulane, and his
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: remarks were in forums, structured and well received. The Commission
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: also may also have preferred not to deal with the
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: conflicts and seeming chaos of Oswald's activism in New Orleans
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: in late July sixty three, which saw Oswald walking a
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: tightrope between two violently opposed political factions. From that point
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: on his activities in New Orleans appear so chaotic that
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: he himself seemed to be living in different dimensions. The
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: explanation for much of that mystery is that in pursuit
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: of his new activism, oswal was doing exactly one of
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: those dimensions was the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: his type rope walking with the FPCC limited both his
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: relationship with its leadership and support he was able to
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: receive from the committee. His initial efforts related to the
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: FPCC had involved letters or request for literature, and likely
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: one short lived public demonstration in Dallas. Once in New Orleans,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: his correspondence with the FPCC turned into a proposal to
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: form a chapter there and to rent an office nowhere.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: The FPCC response was discouraging, and we read this letter
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: last week Rob. It's noted that there was little popular
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: support for the cash regiment in that area that would
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: be the New Orleans area, and opening a physical office
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: was not advisable. That was good advice. If anything New
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: Orleans Cuban scene was about anti Castro advocates and activities.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: In late July and early August, Oswalt would have found
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: the local newspapers featuring stories about anti Castro Cuban volunteers
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: coming from Miami for military training and an FBI raid
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: against anti Castro partisans who had collected a cachet of
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: explosives from a location outside the city. So we're sang.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: This was in the paper for a bombing mission against Cuba.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: In the FBI raid on the explosive stash, several anti
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: Castro fighters from the Miami area, primarily associated with the DRE,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: had joined an ambitious plan to assemble a large quantity
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: of bombs and stage a two plane bombing raid on Cuba.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: Two planes, sorry, planes planes, two planes, Yes, a two
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: plane bombing rate on Cuba. That's how much explosives they
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: had bought.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 5: This is David Ferry Radney were in Assessina throwing a
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: grenade out of the fucking window.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 7: Let me.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: We'll get there, I promise. Surplus bomb cast cases were purchased.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: Dynamite was bought from a source in Illinois and it
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: was carried to a rural area outside New Orleans, Lacombe, Louisiana.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: Money for the materials had come from remember this name,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: Mike mcclaney, a former Havana casino operator, and in late July,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: the materials were stored in a trailer near Lake ponta
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: train Louisiana. Okay, one of the Cubans involved a pilot
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: who had been taken to Louisiana to assess the bombs,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: was not impressed by the expulsive materials and opted out
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: of the plan. Now Larry doesn't say who this is.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that's a wasn't page odeaz Lands a pilot.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 5: A lot of people said they were pilots back then.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure Himmer's brother was.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 5: Uh so, Again, they probably worried more about the the
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 5: bomb blowing their fucking plane out of the air than
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 5: being able to drop it. Like airplanes equipped with like
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: belly bays that could open up and drop a bomb out.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. They open a door and
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 5: throw the dam thing out or a window or something,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like B fifty two bombers where the thing like
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: opens up when the bombs come out.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's not what they had. They had like testas
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 5: and beach craft, you know what I mean, Like, let's
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 5: throw explosives out of a propped airplane.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: It's probably what the plan was. So this gets me
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: back and this is I'm making a point here. This
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: gets me back to the grift because this guy, Mike
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: Mulkiney a former casino operator in havana Q. But now
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: that makes me think, why would a former as in
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have his job anymore as a casino operator
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: in Cuba want to support these raids. Allegedly he's rich
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: because he lost his money stream. That's flat and you
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: can line him up with Santral Trafficante and all the
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: other mafioso's and that that lost money when Castro kicked
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: them out of the prisons. A massive amount your marks.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 5: You know, you go to these guys, but look, you
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 5: know Castro kicked you out. You lost all this money.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 5: You support us. We're gonna go get this money. We're
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 5: gonna killing you know yeh yeah.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: Well we'll get back your profits. You'll be back managing
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: the casino in no time. Bro. Yeah yeah, literally. So
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: a massive amount of material forty eight cartons of dynamite alone.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: Thus other bomb making materials had been involved, but none
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: of it was appropriate for building actual aerial bombs. This
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: is where the griff comes in. You're soliciting some rich dude,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: be like, we're gonna bomb Cuba, but you have some
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: skufuza somewhere else in the country Illinois. We're gonna go
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: through dynamite, but it doesn't even work from the air, right.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: What are you doing with the rest of that money, Well,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: you're pocketing it for your other needs. Anyways, the FBI
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: ended up rating and confiscating the collection and relocating the
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: dynamite and bomb making materials to a military storage depot
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: for explosives. News of the raid appeared in the headlines
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: and the New Orleans papers on August sixth, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: that is, three days before the fractice. Ultimately, no federal
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: laws have been broken Shaker, so no legal actions were
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: taken against any of the Cubans involved. Separately, reports of
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: Cubans arriving for anti Castro military training had been provided
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: to the local FBI office from its own existing sources.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: That activity involved Cubans traveling to the area for basic
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: training prior to being relocated to Nicaragua for what they
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: believed to be military actions against Cuba. So they're recruiting
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: anti captural Cubans and they're saying, we're going to train you,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: send you Nicaragua for an eventual attack on Cuba. I'm
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: sure you can guess if that happened or not.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of these promises made and like
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 5: and sometimes when when it came down to go time,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 5: like you know, like in Florida, they got shut down
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 5: right as they're trying to leave and find we know
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 5: now Robert Kate Brown was an FBI in formant. I
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 5: wouldn't trust Jerry Hemming as far as you could throw
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 5: him him on things. You know, getting money to do
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 5: this stuff is the easy part. Actually getting on a
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 5: boat and going to do this shit, that's the hard part.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 5: I mean, look what happened to pour video. Yeah, who
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 5: actually got on a boat and tried to do this shit.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 5: He got blown the fuck up before he even reached
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 5: the shore.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen sixty four, I think sometimes and.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 5: He's a serious operator. Yeah, okay, you know this, it
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 5: wasn't easy. This wasn't for the faint of heart or
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm sorry, it's just insane. Or they would
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 5: get so far and see that you know, Castro had
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 5: boats out in the water and they would just turn
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 5: around and come back and wouldn't attack.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: Or rob let me put this out to you throw
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: this out there. What if you are an anti Castro Cuban,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: you are an FBI informant, and you're also getting money
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: from these risk skaffusas, right, what better way to give
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: an excuse and be like, hey bro, sorry we were
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: rated as we were planning to launch the operation. Here's
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: the news. Here's the news article about what they confiscated.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah we almost made it.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah we almost got there.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 5: Bro, Next time, I promise you will get there. We
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 5: just need a little bit more funding, so buy more guns.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 5: They took all our guns. We got to replenish this,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 5: our supplies. You know, it's all just a constant money
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 5: grab grift on both sides of the fence.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: I think. So does that not make sense though?
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: If you're an FBI informant and you're talking to some
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: riskfuza and you're like, hey, we're going to go do this,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: but then you just tip off your own contact that
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: you're doing it, everything gets d and you have plausible deniability.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: Hey man, I was like arrested. They gave me a
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: convert or stay in county notice whatever, it makes sense, right, Yeah?
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: I thought of this after after last week, So Ruby,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: don't bark Erica just came home anyways, So a couple
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: more paragraphs sh Initially more than a dozen volunteers were
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: recruited in the Miami area by the Christian Democratic Movement
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: the c d M. But they're called the MDC spelled backwards,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: so you know you're talking about CRCDRE, MDC, Jurrey Alpha
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: sixty six. They're all competing against each other here the
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: Christian Democratic Movement for what they were told was military
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: trainings outside the United States. The initial recruits were paid
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: to travel to New Orleans and housed a rather run
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: down rural property to do some very physical and very
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: basic training over the two weeks. While the MDC and
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: the Cubans involved believed they were being prepared for military activity.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: The organizer of the camp, Ricardo Davis, had obtained his
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: initial funding from investors who had started a business in Guatemala,
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: a lumber of Mineral Corporation, and their position was that
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: Davis was simply recruiting people to cut mahogany trees, not
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: to invade Cuba to countries in Nicuraua. Of course, when
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: the Cubans found out about this, they all quit. Oh man,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: you can't. They were outraged and refuse to continue, leaving
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: them with no money at loose ends and ultimately contacting
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: refugee aid groups for support. So they brought on all
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: these Cubans, they said, you're going to Cuba, and then
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: they it's figured out that they were actually just gonna
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: cut trees in the Garopolo.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 5: Is coming like off of the church model, if you will, okay,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 5: explain the church model. Well, you know some people and
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 5: this might piss some people off, but you know, the
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 5: church model has a message to give you, and you know,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 5: depending on how you make people feel in that church,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 5: you know, they're more inclined to give you money. Right
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 5: then you have the whole priest or a preacher model
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 5: done in New Orleans by folks like David Ferry, Jack
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 5: Martin who pretend to be these fake bishops and and
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 5: and and preachers and and this, that and the other
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 5: with these churches in quotes that they try to raise
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 5: money for. Right this, you know, we know we learned
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 5: this from Thomas Beckham and how all this all works.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 5: Beckham was nothing but a con man as well.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know a million per even even.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 5: Hew Jack Ruby's selling fucking twist boards at the County Fair.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean, another con man, It's all
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 5: a grift?
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: Is this why everything is so confusing in this case?
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: It might be because you're just dealing with skufuzas and grifters.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's one scheme to another. You know, Okay, we
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 5: we we built the Bishop Priest thing for what it's worth.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 5: You know, we can sell fake diplomas and fake UH
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 5: certificates and you know that's all good and fine until
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 5: we get caught. You know this, that and the other.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 5: You know, I pretend to be a country singer, you know,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 5: and you know Jack Ruby is like trying to adopt
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 5: a little black kid from Chicago and be his manager
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 5: and make money off this kid's back.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: Going into the worlds to get strippers.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 5: If one club don't work, hey, we'll open another one.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 5: We'll change the name. We'll bob borrow money from this
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 5: guy and that guy, and you be my silent partner.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 5: And it's all just a giant, giant scheme until you're
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 5: in over your ass. And Sally had a really good
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 5: uh idea, Joe, look at this?
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: Sure?
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 5: So could they have been found out and made to
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 5: commit the assassination to pay off a grift? You see
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 5: what I'm saying like they got money from the wrong
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 5: people and who were pissed and said, you're gonna do
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 5: this or you're dead, will kill you and you can't hide.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: That's a that's an interesting idea.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 5: I think. You think if you were the sucker who
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 5: got suckered in by a grift, right, people may promise
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 5: this to you that you bought and paid for, you
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 5: contributed to the cause, and these things never come to fruition,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 5: and you might get pissed off enough to say, all right, look,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 5: you know, if it comes down to it, you guys
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: ain't gonna do this ship, then you need to do
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 5: this or where you're done. Yeah, it's a good idea.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 5: It's a it's a damn good idea. So I like
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 5: it selling.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: I like it, I think and and this is just
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: like a working theory. Uh and it's only a week old.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: I think Oswalt was grifting with people like Faery and
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: Dean Andrews and the rest of the New Orleans caffusas,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: maybe some Dallas caffusas, and he happened to stumble into
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: the wrong drift, and that would be of the CIA
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: and the FBI really serious anti Castro Cubans, And you
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: brought up a point last week, Rob, and I didn't
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: get a chance to mention this because I was going
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: to hockey of why would these anti castro Cubans who
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: are getting paid a lot of money from the CIA
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: and other ah, well, and they have freedom, why would
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: they risk their life going out on a boat thing
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: right on, like a quote suicide mission or something that's
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: not very likely to succeed.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 5: Right Well, I mean you got you got organizations if
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 5: you will, like the DRE who didn't really promise raids
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 5: on Cuba and things like that. They were raising money
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 5: to send back to Cuba, you know, for the people
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 5: that were left behind, the people that had nothing, the
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 5: people that cast or took everything from and these poor
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 5: families can barely have enough money to eat, and da
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 5: da da da da. You know, they're having parades down
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 5: the middle of Canal Street with carrying these giant flags
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 5: and people throwing money in them. They're sending teams out
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 5: all over the city of New Orleans to stand on
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 5: street corners and solicit money for these causes, right depending
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 5: what the cause is. I mean, how do you know
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 5: if Carlos bring a supposedly the only in quotes, dru
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 5: member in New Orleans is going to send back any
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 5: of this money to Cuba? You have no idea, you know.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: As much as he said he would send he might
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: keep eighty percent of it from himself or right, who
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: knows a.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 5: Grift.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: They all had their own personal agendas. And just my
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: gut feeling is that Oswalt might have ran into people
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: that were actually a couple of people that really saw
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: an opportunity. And I think it probably came out of
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: jam Wave in addition to what New Orleans their assets
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: were telling them, and really like laid like really screwed
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: him over.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 5: Let's think about this for a second, Joe. So, if
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 5: you're a Cuban exile right in the United States, you're
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 5: in a different country, all right, What are the chances
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 5: of you getting a decent job here if you barely
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 5: speak any English?
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: Not well, unless you're working under other Cuban exiles.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 5: Like right, you know, or you open your own business
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 5: or work for a three letter agency, right you know.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 5: So that model Oswald, you know, could have seen the
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 5: model of what these guys are doing to make money.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 5: He's probably thinking in his head, how do these assholes,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 5: these human exiles from another country come to my country
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 5: and make a better living than I do. And I
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 5: was born here. I fought for this country.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see him having that view one hundred.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 5: And seeing what they do. He's not stupid, we know that.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 5: And he's seeing the grift. He's seeing what they're doing.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 5: He might not know a lot of their funding comes
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 5: from the CIA. He just sees spoils. You know, how
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 5: does this guy own a clothing store in New Orleans
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 5: when he just got here a year ago and he
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 5: barely speaking English? You know what I mean? Like something
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 5: doesn't make sense here. And with what we know that
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 5: Banister was doing in New Orleans, we know he was,
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 5: you know, keeping track of communists and files on these guys.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 5: Oswald was so out there doing what he's doing. He
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 5: was even pointing out the Banister at one point, some
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 5: guys down here handing out flyers pro Castro, and he
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 5: laughed about it. If he was legit, Banister would have
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 5: been all over this guy, like flies on shit with
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 5: a file this stick, sending guys out to watch him
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 5: and report back, you know what I mean, Like keeping
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 5: eye on this guy. He's like really trying to do
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 5: something here, keeping eye on this guy. But if Banister
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 5: had an inkling that it's all bullshit, then he would
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 5: have laughed about it. He wouldn't have been worried about
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 5: what Oswald was doing. You know, he's just another Skuffoo's
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 5: a hustler, New Orleans, hustler kid trying to get by
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 5: like everybody else.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have this guy's file. He's a joke
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: laughing lol. Yeah, uh yeah, No, it's it's it's it's
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: just something I've been thinking of, and I think I
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: think James had a great I highlighted earlier. We might
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: be really onto something. I mean, we don't know. We're
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: just kind of spitballing here, and that's why we appreciate.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 5: It's an angle. It's another angle that's never really been explored.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 5: And like I tried to explain the other night, you know,
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 5: when you tied into stories of Oswald growing up in
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 5: New Orleans and being a hustler and being around the
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 5: dregs of society and New Orleans in his formative teen years,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 5: with a mother who's not around, with no brothers around
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 5: anymore because they've already left and joined the arms, versus
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 5: Oswald has a lot of time to himself in his
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 5: teen years, you know, thirteen fourteen, fifteen in New Orleans,
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 5: living in Exchange Alley, living next to a hustler, hideout, whorehouse,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 5: whatever you want to call it. You know, there's there's
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 5: been reports that you know, Hey, twenty dollars is twenty dollars.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 5: You know, it is what it is for somebody who
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 5: is not making.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: A lot, you know, a couple hundred bucks.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I doubt his mom's given him
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 5: any money for things. You don't want to be that
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 5: poor kid in school, you know, and this, that and
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 5: the other.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, just have the type of hustle or mindset. Yeah,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: I completely agree, James. How many grifters in the Garrison investigation?
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: We lost count, but we'll get back to you.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, more than none.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Tiny goes now is us can't leave? And
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: you won't get this reference as one of the references
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: I will get that you won't rob. This is from
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: the Bronx Tail Robert De Niro and Chaz poluntary as
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: Big a Talian movie, when they locked the bikers in
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: the bar and Sally got it. Though I respect that.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: I love that film. Tiny, best scene I saw a
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: clip of it today, talk about the matrix. Uh and yeah,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: so and and when we talked about on We're not
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: gonna go too much into this. The only file that
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: the CIA is currently not allegedly in the process of
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: turning over to the task first how he won Luke
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: Committee is the George Joan Edese file.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 5: Well, the CIA is a bunch of con artists. I agree,
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 5: that's what they do. It's called prep. They give it
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 5: a different name, it's called propaganda, but that's the fancy name.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 5: Otherwise it's a grift, it's a con. It's propaganda. It's
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 5: making people believe in something they wouldn't normally believe in,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 5: to do things they wouldn't normally do. Whoa, Gary Peters, Oh,
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 5: super chat. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, sir,
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 5: Thank you very much.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: Let's see what he says here. Yeah, John, Bobby and
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: King all killed in the span of two Everything points
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: to the right. And if you don't think the Mob
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: was right wing back then think again. Oswald apparently had
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: plenty of right wing ties as well. Yeah, Gary, I mean, listen,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: we've talked about this a lot before the Mob was
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: kicked out of Cuba. Havana was Las Vegas before Las Vegas.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: When Castro took over, they couldn't run the casinos anymore.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: So you have the right wing being all anti communist,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: you had the mafia just caring about profits and going
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: back into Cuba, and you have the Cuban exiles just
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: caring about getting rid of Castro and making Cuba free again.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: All of these elements were intertwined a million.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 5: Take what's convincing for the CIA and Johnny Rosselli to
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 5: convince Santa's trafficante that it'd be a good idea to
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 5: go back and kill Castro and our government approves. It
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 5: just needs you to have one of your guys do it.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 5: Here's some pills go killing. Yeah.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I left out the biggest other element, which of
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: course was the CIA, who was not very happy with
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: communist country being ninety miles off the shore. Yeah, and
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: that's that's how a lot of these elements came together.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: And you know, gum to my head right now, I
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: think some mill you of these four were responsible for
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: these passage.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 5: That is my working theory. Yeah. A lot of a
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 5: lot of horses ass were going on back then.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: Right right, all right, so all right, So let's see, Rob,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: we are one fifty in. I'm like halfway through my ship.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: I have a couple clips of carlos Kiroga and Jim Garrison,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: not many, maybe less than five minutes.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: What do you think we'll just just hit hit the
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 5: high points. Yeah, the highest points.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: The highest points. I usually hit those wrong. Okay, all right,
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: and guys, this is a little This is not the
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: best audio. I picked out the best, the audio that
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: was the clearest. But take a couple of seconds away
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: from the chat and really listen. It is my recommendation here,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: all right, and.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 5: Turn it up, because I mean, you know she was
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 5: She was right as.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 6: Do you know the relationship of the cover there?
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: This was with the with the then.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 10: I don't know day he is of babies.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: I don't size that.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 10: You can talk about the guys.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 5: I don't know that.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 10: You know, may he may have he may have handsome,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 10: I don't know.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 5: But I don't know.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 10: If he was waiting sixty three, I don't know.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 6: Do you know if you do nod yelling?
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 10: People literally had any contact with uncles myself and.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: Coming to college New Year. So if you heard that, Rob,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: he said the only person on Oswald had contact with
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: was me and Carlos Springer. Yeah, so I think they're
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: kind of keeping the uh the circle close here.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 5: Uh well, yeah, they're definitely leaving people out.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: And bro At the end of this, I'm not going
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: to get into this, Garrison offers Kiroga a spot as
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: an investigator, and I think Kiroga was one of the
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: ones that allegedly obstructed his investigation, right, maybe pointed them
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: away from the Cubans and the dary and all that stuff.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 5: He did not want to help because he was worried
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 5: about his family back in Cuba being killed if word
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 5: got out about anything that he's doing over here like this,
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean?
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay. In the end of this, there's Garrison makes
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: like a five minute pitch if we could pay you
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: this per week and this and that. It's really hard
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: to make out, but let me go through the other
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: part where he asks about Oswald really quickly, and I'm
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: going to mute as I have to skip.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 6: Those are the only people that have in contact that
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 6: you know of.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 10: Saw them that we didn't make him.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 5: I saw the.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: Alright, every no.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: See prying about the UH missiles missional prience, I man
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: I know this stuff, I was co.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 10: Pare maybe he I told him? If I mean I
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 10: saw him myself, I'll play him.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 5: As being one of he's a man.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 10: And the regional one of the reason Well.
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: I ain't who had have you coulda checked my background?
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 10: Only want him as far as being here for a
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 10: long time? Uh and uh so out of time in
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 10: sixty three and the fact the day they got some
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 10: few ONTI in the United States? Who are who in
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 10: Hacten here for twenty years, maybe twenty thy years? They
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 10: still like him, lush, I mean they still like the
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 10: socialistic relation.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 6: What listen, marg if I told him that all of these.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 10: Things that Osle told you were merely a cover.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: And that he was not an anti castro, well he
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: sure was a black man named a lot of that
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: he Garrison is asking Kroga, what if everything Oswald told
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: you was a cover? Like what if he wasn't actually
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: pro castro? And he goes, that would surprise me? And
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: just a couple more seconds, you're robbin. Don't get any responsible,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: Daniel and An.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 6: Will it surprise you if I told you that Oswald
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 6: has been in the training can't go off.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: Of the lake.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 6: The summer of sixty three.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 10: I guess.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 6: You said Carta left Archacia left town in the early
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 6: sixty two. Uh suppose I told you that we had
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 6: the statements of witnesses placing him here at the same
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 6: I'm about sixty.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 10: Grade A this surprise, Yeah, because I say one thing,
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 10: if you did, if you if you waste in sixty
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 10: three and never you called me or come back from
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 10: time on I look, yeah, but you don't want look. Yeah,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 10: he used to be the uh uh the chief played
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 10: be real investigation. If you about to suspie, how did
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 10: he frow a basta?
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 5: That b I E r E A.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: S.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 10: Why you heard of Campo?
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, b I E D r A.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 10: What was his person name orline?
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: And you still live there northst Man?
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 10: In fact, by the way, up, that's the person from
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 10: wha I wrote a letter.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: Uh s.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: See if you knew where I Gotcha was around another words,
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 3: you was very close to Ycotta cool. Yeah, No, he
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 3: was not close to I Gotchat, but he had heard
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: from some rather see has excused him.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 10: That, uh that I got you excused that the one
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 10: time you game always.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 6: You wouldn't be surprised if AR Gotcha was in.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 10: New Orleans and there. Yeah, because.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: And all right, so essentially Garrison is trying to play like,
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: no it all. Would it surprise you if I had
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: information that our costure was in New Orleans and sixty
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: three and and Kioga is just like, yeah, what surprised me? Yeah,
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: what surprised me? Everything would surprise me. It's a cool customer, Rob, Yeah,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: and uh, sorry for the bad audio. It is hard
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: to hear, but it is very interesting. And this is
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: from your speaker channel, uh, from the vault JFK assassination.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: And you have a Kioga interview which lasts two hours,
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: to Jack Martin interviews which lasts uh over four hours,
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: to Lawrence Howard interviews which lasts over three hours, and
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: a Lauren Hall interview which lasts almost three hours. And uh,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna spell this out e a g O. Daryl
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: Wayne Gardner interview.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 5: Daryl Wayne Gardner man.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: Can't so definitely check that stuff out. And guys like
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we know our audience has a ton of
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: context and knowledge, like listen to this, make notes, send
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: us an email and we'll talk about certain points.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 5: If you he would just eat him and stuff.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, if you find that, definitely send it to him.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: We can clip it. So I have some more stuff,
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: but I've been yapping for a little bit, so maybe
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: I'll hand it back off to you.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 5: All right, back to Moil and we'll travel over to
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 5: Dallas a little bit and talk about the Sylvia Odio
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 5: incident a little bit. Joe, Okay, I came across some
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 5: very interesting documents. For those who don't know. Odio has
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 5: stated that in late September or early October in nineteen
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 5: sixty three, two Cuban men came to her house and
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 5: stated they were from Jurrey, which is another anti Castro group.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 5: They were accompanied by an individual whom they introduced as
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 5: Leon Oswald. Miss Odio stated that, based upon photographs she
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 5: had seen of Lee Harvey Oswald, she is certain that
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 5: Leon Oswald is identical with Lee Harvey Oswald. Now, the
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 5: reason this is a problem, folks, is because Oswald is
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 5: supposed to be on his way to Mexico at this
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 5: time and should not be accompanied by two Cubans at
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 5: Sylvia Odio's house. Right they get you? Yeah uh. Miss
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 5: Audio stated that she is not certain if she misunderstood
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 5: the first name of Leon, or if the two Cuban
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 5: men who introduced Oswald at understood him. Miss Audio stated
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 5: her to write some letters to various businesses in Dallas
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 5: and request funds for Jerre.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: We're going back to funds, requesting funds.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 5: The grift, the grift, folks. Miss Audio stated that both
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 5: of her parents are presently in prison in Cuba. For
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 5: this reason, she declined, for fear her parents would possibly
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 5: be harmed. Same reason as mister Carogo, right, his family
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 5: is in Cuba, maybe not in prison, but definitely in
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 5: Cuba in fear that they possibly could be harmed.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: And Lauren Hall, of course, of course was in prison
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Yeah. A few days later, one of the
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 5: two two Cuban individuals contacted her by telephone and stated
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 5: they were leaving town, presumably to return to Miami, Florida
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 5: or Puerto Rico, which is where the headquarters of Jurrey
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 5: is now. It seems like an awful stretch, Joe, to
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 5: think of their only purpose for visiting the United States
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 5: from Puerto Rico was to ask Miss Odio to call
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 5: somebody to request some funds. That they could have probably
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 5: just made a phone call instead of a very long trip. Yeah,
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 5: I agree, Okay. The individual who called miss Odio only
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 5: gave his name as Leopoldo stated he was not going
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 5: to have anything further to do with Leon Oswall since
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 5: he considered him to be too Loco Loco and the yes.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 5: This individual known only as Leopoldo stated Oswald did not
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 5: appear sincere in his anti Castro sentiments. He told them
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 5: he was an ex marine. It could help them. However,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 5: you appear very senative and seemed to think that all
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 5: Cubans hated Americans. According to Leopoldo, Oswald stated, quote, I'll
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 5: bet you Cubans could kill Kennedy for what he did
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 5: to you at the Bay of Pigs, couldn't you? End quote.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 5: According to miss Odio, Leopoldo told them that the Cuban
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 5: people bore no malice towards President Kennedy because of the
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 5: Bay of Pigs episode. Now, certainly some of them did,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 5: but you know, not all of them. Next up as
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 5: a secret Service report Joe from there were period covering
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 5: April twenty fourth to May fifth, nineteen sixty four, and
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 5: these were inquiries in Miami leading to the identity and
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 5: current whereabouts of a father Walter McCann being unsuccessful. Juan
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 5: Martin and quote Leopoldo have been identified by sources in Miami.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 5: Personal interview of Roggilio Cisnos Diaz disclosed that he went
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 5: to Dallas in June of sixty three and contacted Sylvia
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 5: Odio for the purpose of being introduced to an Uruguayan
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 5: for the purchase of small arms. Reinterview of Ruggilio Cisno's
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 5: Diaz revealed that the Erguayan is definitely identified as Juan Martin. Now,
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 5: I want you to remember the last name Ciscenaro's because
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 5: this will become important here in a minute, Joe, is
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 5: the chat working for you? It hasn't moved in like
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 5: for me. It hasn't moved in like ten minutes.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: It is working for me. You lagged for like a
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: couple seconds there. Maybe that's it.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 5: I don't know, but it just working for me. My
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 5: chat feed has not moved in like ten minutes.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: Y South Twesta, don't you know. I'm loco.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 5: I'm still seeing the twenty dollars super chat. That's how
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 5: far behind mine is.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, your chat is lagging. Yeah, okay, I
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: took that away minutes and minutes ago. Yeah, sorry about that.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 5: If you want to well, no, it's not on the screen,
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 5: but the chat itself. That's where I'm at.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, you're you were behind a little bit.
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I'm just making
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 5: sure it's working. Okay, it is all right.
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 5: Reference is made to reports submitted by the reporting agent
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 5: dated April twenty four to sixty four, and this is
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 5: coming from the Secret Service Department in Miami, Florida, not Dallas,
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 5: not New Orleans. Mons Fitzpatrick on April twenty seventh, nineteen
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 5: sixty four, of the Catholic Diocese of Miami was reinterviewed
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 5: relative to a Father Walter McCann. Monseignor Fitzpatrick searched his
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 5: official Catholic directory, where he has all the names of
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 5: all Catholic priests working in the United States, and the
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 5: name of Father Walter McCann did not appear in the directory.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 5: Joe Mon, Senior Fitzpatrick emphasized that if Father Walter mccannn
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 5: were assigned to the Miami Diocese, he would know of this.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 5: On the same date, I personally interviewed Sister William, director
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 5: of the Centro Hispanic Catillico, the Catholic Spanish Center of
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 5: Second Street, Miami, Florida, which assists on needy persons of
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 5: Latin origin, including Cuban's relative to Father Waltimer Cann, and
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 5: she stated that Father Waltimer Cann was not known to her.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: Either.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 5: Sister Williams suggested that if Father Waltimercairn was believed to
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 5: have come from Dallas, that inquiry of the Catholic Chancery
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 5: on Kidwell Street in Dalla, Texas might disclose further information
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 5: regarding Father McCann. Discrete boy, This secret service loves doing
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 5: things discrete right. Discreet and extensive inquiries among Cuban sources
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 5: in Miami leading to the identities of Juan Martin and
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 5: Leopaldo have been unsuccessful to date. In accordance with long
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 5: distance telephone call from Inspector Kelly on May fourth, where
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 5: Gilio Cisnaros was personally interviewed as his residence in Miami, Florida,
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 5: he further identified himself as Virgilio Cis Sarah's diaz, an
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 5: officer of Juray at Miami, Florida, and added that the
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 5: name Eugenio is his designated war name right, So a
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 5: lot of these jury people had war names that they went.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: By right, Lee Paldo was one as well.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 5: Right allegedly allegedly so this this guy uh grow Giglio Cisnero.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 5: His war name is Eugenio okay.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 10: Uh.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 5: Mister Cincenaro said he went to Dallas from Miami in
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 5: June of sixty three and travel they were alone byplane.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 5: He fixed the date of his travel in Dallas to
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 5: June sixty three by associating other events. He said that
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 5: when he traveled to Dallas, their Jurrey office in Dallas
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 5: was already in operation, having been established in May of
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 5: sixty three, where Julio Cisnara stated that he went to
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 5: Dallas specifically for the purpose of contacting Silviodio, who was
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 5: supposed to introduce him to a person in Dallas who
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 5: was interested in selling them small arms. Cincenaro said he
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 5: contacted Silviodio only once, and at that time he was
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 5: accompanied only by Jorge Rodriguez Alvarada, their Dallas delegate, and
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 5: no one else. Cincenaro said that he does not know
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 5: anybody named Lopoldo Leopoldo, adding that Leopoldo is not common
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 5: as a Cuban name, and then so far as he
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 5: knew Leopoldo was not a member of Jurrey in Dallas.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 5: He further stated he did not know anybody named Leon,
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 5: either as an individual or as a member of Jurrey
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 5: in Dallas. Francisco Gueterrez, another Dallas member of Jurrey at
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 5: the time Riggilio went there in June of sixty three,
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 5: when interviewed, also stated that he had never heard of
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 5: anybody named Leopoldo or Leon. Cincenara stated the demand to
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 5: whom Sylvia introduced us to him believed to be an
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 5: Uruguayan who was well known to Silvia Odio from previous
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 5: contact in Cuba. Ciscenaro said he did not approve of
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 5: the Uruguayan's tactics and had discontinued further negotiations with him
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 5: concerning the small arms. Ciscenaros added that he did not
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 5: recall the Iuruguayan's name other than to be Juan Martin,
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 5: and indicated it might be Leopoldo, but he didn't think
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 5: that it was. The above information was made known to
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 5: Inspector Kelly by knowing the telephone call made a fifth
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 5: sixty four. After speaking with Inspector Kelly, the reporting agent
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 5: recontacted Virgilio Sisnaro's by telephoning. The name of Juan Martin
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 5: was mentioned to him. Since Narras spontaneously exclaimed that Juan
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 5: Martin was the name of the Uruguayan who had introduced
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 5: to him to by Silvia Odio. This was confirmed by
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 5: Francisco Gueterrez. Since Narras then related that Juan Martin operates
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 5: a well established wash it yourself laundry believed to be
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 5: known as Dixie, located near one of the biggest or
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 5: principal bowling alleys in Dallas, situated on one of the
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 5: main streets. He stated that he had made only one
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 5: contact with Juan Martin at the laundry matt and although
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 5: he was not familiar with Dallas, the location of the
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 5: laundry was clarified for him by Guitaris, who was more
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 5: familiar with the city of Dallas. So we know Juan
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 5: Martin was a Uruguayan, we know he was an our
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 5: small arms dealer, We know he ran a laundry mattin Dallas.
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 5: We know he had contact with Silviodio. But we didn't
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 5: have any of these documents back when we were doing
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 5: the whole Martin thing. Joe. But this clarifies things a
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 5: lot more about who Wan or Johnny Martin was right.
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 5: This is the Johnny Martin guy right now. There is
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 5: I came across an interesting letter from James Rowley, who
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 5: is of course the Secret Service, the head honcho. It's
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 5: a secret Service at the time, right and it is
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 5: to Jay Lee Rankin of the Warrant Commission on May
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 5: the fifth, nineteen sixty four, and it says this Reverend
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 5: Walter J. McCann was interviewed on April thirtieth, nineteen sixty
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 5: four by Inspector Kelly. He has a twenty six year
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 5: old priest presently attending Loyola University in New Orleans, but
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 5: is a lifelong resident of Dallas, Texas. He spent a
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 5: number of summer vacations in Mexico and has a fair
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 5: command of the Spanish language, and has acted as the
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 5: chaplain of the Cuban Catholic Committee of d since nineteen
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 5: sixty one. The Committee contracted employers and it are contacted
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 5: employers in an attempt to find places for Cubans to work.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 5: It organized religious and social functions in order to make
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 5: Dallas a friendly place for the Cubans. Who were sent
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 5: there in sixty one. The organization had no funds and
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 5: solicited funds among the people of Dallas. There we go again,
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 5: more drifting and interesting that this father McCann dude was
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 5: going to college in New Orleans.
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 5: But of course in the summer, when you don't have college,
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 5: you know, you go back to where you're from, right,
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 5: more than likely? Yeah? Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. But
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 5: this guy's young twenty six year old priest in college
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 5: still okay, spend summer vacations, many summer vacations in Mexico.
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 5: Has a fair command of the Spanish language, I would hope.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 7: So.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 5: In March of nineteen sixty two, the Cuban Catholic Committee
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 5: held a meeting in Miami that Father McCann attended.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: Is that people to see the Cuban Catholic Committee.
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah. At that time, the Catholic Relief Service set up
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 5: a revolving fund for the Cubans in Dallas to furnish
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 5: them relief until jobs could be found for them. A
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 5: resettlement office was opened in Dallas, and Father McCann was
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 5: given the responsibility for the conduct of the office, i e.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 5: He's in charge of dispersing funds to needy Cubans right,
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 5: no shortage of them. Joaquin Ensues, a Cuban who was
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 5: hired to take care of the office, is still an
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 5: officer in the Cuban Relief Committee in Dallas. Father mccainn
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 5: stated that he never attended any of the political meetings
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 5: of the Cuban groups that were represented by the Cubans
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 5: in Dallas, although he was often cajoled and entreated to
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 5: attend them. He felt that it was a better policy
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 5: for him to remain aloof from the differences of opinion
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 5: that occurred among the various Cuban groups represented by the
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 5: Cuban population, So he's trying to stay out of the fray.
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 5: Father McCann stated that during his work with the committee,
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 5: he came to know Missus Connell, who was interested in
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 5: assisting with the work of the committee and who was
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 5: specifically interested in the welfare of Mississilviodio in view of
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 5: miss Odio's mental condition, whatever the hell that was now, Joe,
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 5: if you remember this, Missus Connell is the one that
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 5: the FBI interviewed. Is where we got the Johnny or
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 5: Juan Martin name from. She's the one that told the
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 5: FBI that this guy was meeting with Missus Odio and
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 5: that this guy is a drug runner or a gun runner. Sorry.
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 5: He acknowledges knowing and Missus Eugene Link, Albert Tamaya, Marcella
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 5: in Sway, and Hector Escaverio, all of whom met he
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 5: met during his work at the Cuban Catholic Committee. He
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 5: also acknowledges knowing Colonel and Missus Castor. He said Colonel
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 5: Caster is a retired Army colonel and Missus Caster seemed
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 5: generally interested in the plight of Cuban refugees, but that
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 5: he always felt that Colonel Caster was quote playing the
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 5: role of an intelligence officer in his contacts with the Cubans,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 5: that he seems to be more more interested in their
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 5: political beliefs than their economic plight or their social problems
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 5: in the country. He stated he was introduced to John
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 5: Martin Juan Martin aka Johnny Martin, whom he described as
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 5: a Latin but definitely not a Cuban. He stated that
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 5: mister Martin came to Sylvia Odio's apartment one evening. While
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 5: he was there, mister Martin did not stay very long,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 5: and after he had left Missus Odio stated that mister
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 5: Martin represented a Cuban group or was doing a job
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 5: for a Cuban group in Dallas. Father McCann was under
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 5: the impression that Martin had an apartment or a house
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 5: in Dallas, but that he did not live in Dallas
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 5: and had a family in some other city. He stated
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 5: that this was his only contact with Martin, but that
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 5: Martin was apparently well known to Odio. Father McCann said
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 5: that while he was interested in the Cuban groups in Dallas,
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 5: he had contacted about four or five times by Wallace
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 5: Heytman of the Dallas office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Yeah.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 5: He first made contact with Heypman when it came to
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 5: his attention that one of these Cuban refugees was extorting
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 5: money from other Cubans, making false promises to Cubans. Was
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 5: a disruptive influence in the Cuban community and was considered
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 5: by McCann to be a quote, political Cuban rather than
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 5: a Cuban who was interested in receiving any assistance from
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 5: the committee. He could not recall the name of this Cuban,
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 5: excuse me, but he believes that the Cuban is still
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 5: employed at Parkland Hospital who The other contacts Heypman had
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 5: with him were drop in visits by Heightman. When Heypman
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 5: was in the vicinity of the Lakewood Building in Dallas.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 5: Heypman would stop and ask whether he knew of the
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 5: existence of certain Cuban or a Cuban group. He had
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 5: always cooperated to the best of his ability with the FBI.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 5: When asked concerning his knowledge of the Jury group among
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 5: the Cubans, he stated that he knew very little about
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 5: the various groups and Jury. He stated he knew of
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 5: their existence, but never became interested in their views or
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 5: their differences of opinion. Blah blah blah blah blah. He stated.
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 5: Silvia Odio told him that she wished to stay clear
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 5: of this organization because the position her parents in Castro's
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 5: prison was very precarious. He stated he had no recollection
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 5: of Emmanuel Rodriguez, George Peril, or any of the officers
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 5: of the Segundo Frinda del Peril Escambre coming to his
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 5: attention in connection with his work among the Cubans. He
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 5: denied knowing anything about Lee Harvey Oswald Prime to November
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 5: twenty second, and he stated that sometime in December sixty three,
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 5: Silvia Odio informed him that a group of Cubans had
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 5: brought Oswald to her apartment. She told him that she
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 5: discussed this matter fully with FBI agents. In early December,
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 5: subsequent to his living in New Orleans, Sylvia Odio had
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 5: written a letter to him which she again stated that
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 5: she discussed her meeting of Oswald with government officials. McCann
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 5: was not certain whether she meant that she had another
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 5: discussion or whether she had talked to someone also about
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 5: the subject. He felt that Sylvia Odio's aggravated mental condition
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 5: since November twenty two was caused by her concern that
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 5: the Cuban community might become involved in some way with
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 5: the assassination in view of their association with Oswald. Shortly
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 5: before the assassination, she feinted at her employment when she
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 5: learned of the assassination of the President and the arrest
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 5: of Oswald. However, he stated that she is inclined to
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 5: be highly dramatic, and she may be building up her
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 5: belief in an association with Oswald out of all proportion
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 5: to what it was, if in fact, there was any
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 5: He believed in any association with Oswald was extremely limited
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 5: and confined to the one instance in which Oswald is
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 5: alleged to a visitor home with quote a group from
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 5: the jury. He denied ever having a discussion with the
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 5: Odeo is the identity of this group, and denied ever
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 5: hearing the name Leopoldo mentioned other than in connection with
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 5: his visit. He did state, however, that it is inconceivable
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 5: that Oswald. Inconceivable that Oswald was brought to Sylvia Odio
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 5: and introduced to her by anyone from the jury other
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 5: than someone well known to her, I e. These guys
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 5: were probably not Randoh people just showing up to her apartment.
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 5: She likely knew them, he said. A man by the
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 5: name of alien Ali Alientada, who is said to be
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 5: the representative for the jury group in Dallas, would know
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 5: who was active in the group. Alentada is said to
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 5: be a Certified Public Accountant CPA in Dallas and frequently
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 5: came to Odio looking for help for jury. Odio is
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 5: described as twenty six years of age who now lives
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 5: with her three small children, her sister sa rita single
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 5: twenty three, and another sister, Annie eighteen. Father McCann says
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 5: he did not know Sylvia Odio prior to March of
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 5: sixty three, when she came to Dallas from Puerto Rico,
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 5: but that he knew her sister Si Rita in connection
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 5: with the Cuban Relief Committee, and that he also knew
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 5: her younger sister Annie, who was attending school in Dallas
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 5: prior to miss Odio's rival. When did she.
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: Say she met, Father mckenn.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 5: Can you give me that date again, March sixty three?
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm I'm going to follow this up with something
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: after you.
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Father McCann was requested by the Secret Service to
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 5: call missus Odio in an attempt to secure from her
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 5: the name of the jury representative who accompanied Oswald to
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 5: her apartment that day. So now they're asking Father McCann
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 5: to do a little undercover work, right. He agreed to
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 5: place the call, stating that if he could not induce
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 5: her to tell him who the people were, he could
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 5: induce her to tell it to the proper authorities. He said,
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 5: Odio would be reluctant to give any information which might
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 5: compromise her position among the Cubans. Blah blah blah. Father
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 5: McCann stated that it was the duty of every citizen
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 5: to cooperate to the fullest extent in the President's Commission's investigation,
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 5: and that he felt he was bound in conscience to
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 5: give whatever assistance that he could. I'm sure, I'm sure,
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 5: he said. He did not feel he was violating any
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 5: confidence in giving any information previously given, since he had
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 5: been informed by Odio that she had discussed this information
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 5: with the proper authorities. He did not realize at the
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 5: time that she had not made a full and frank
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 5: disclosure of the names of the people who brought Oswald.
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 7: To her.
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 5: Father. McCann said that he did not feel he could
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 5: call miss Odio in the presence of Inspector Kelly, and
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 5: that he would prefer to talk to her in private
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 5: and then report back. Okay, but yes, it was agreed
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 5: that he would call Odio shortly before six thirty pm
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 5: Central Standard Time on April thirtieth, and he was furnished
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 5: the necessary funds to make the call from a payphone
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 5: down the street. Upon his return to Inspector Kelly's room
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 5: at about seven thirty pm, Okay, he said he'd made
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 5: the call to miss Odio in Dallas and she was
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 5: very anxious to discuss the entire matter, She advised him
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 5: the only information she could provide on the people who
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 5: visited her was that one of them said, is he
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 5: was using the code name Leopoldo. That the second man
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 5: she could identify Joe as Eugenio Cisneros.
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 2: Humh and her man huh you told me in the
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 2: chat to remember that name.
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 5: Yes, And he used his war name. He didn't, He
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 5: didn't use his god given name. And his war name
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 5: is Eugenio, right, but his real name is Hrey Gallio
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 5: or something right, yeah, bro yep. She says specifically, the
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 5: first man was using the name Leopoldo, the second man
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 5: she could identify as Eugenio Cesno's, and the third man
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 5: was introduced to her as Leon. She said Leon did
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 5: not use the name Oswald in her presence, but that
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 5: she recognized him after November twenty second as being the
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 5: same man who was arrested for the assassination of Kenned.
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 5: She further described the men as being quote greasy looking Cubans,
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 5: more like Mexicans than Cubans, although they did not have
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 5: Mexican accents.
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 2: She stated the thing again, Yeah.
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 5: She stated that they said they were members of jury,
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 5: and they had a letter in Spanish which they wished
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 5: her to translate into English for the purpose of sending
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 5: copies of this letter to United States companies to secure
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 5: funds for their cause. She further stated that in the
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 5: course of the conversation, the man she now identifies as
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 5: Oswald spoke quote a couple of words in broken Spanish,
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 5: and further the others informed her that they were going
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 5: to make a trip. These men did not enter her
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 5: apartment or sit down, Apparently they just stayed in the doorway.
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 5: She said she was a little afraid of them since
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 5: she did not really know them, although they used the
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 5: underground code word names of her father and mother and
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 5: seemed very familiar with her family and conditions in Cuba.
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 5: Her sister Annie, who is now in Miami, was babysitting
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 5: with missus Odio's children that evening. Miss Odio was ready
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 5: to go out, and she never did ask the visitors
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 5: to come in and sit down. The entire conversation she
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 5: had with them was in the doorway of her apartment
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 5: at the Crestwood Apartments. She is not able to fix
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 5: the date any better than sometime at the end of
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 5: September in nineteen sixty three. Missus said she refused to
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 5: assist them in their project of translating the letters, saying
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 5: she had she ain't got no time for that to
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 5: get mixed up in the affairs of the jury. They left,
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 5: saying that they would be in touch with her again.
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 5: The man said she says was Leopoldo called her on
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 5: the phone the next day, and in part of the
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 5: conversation he told her that this guy Leon was willing
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 5: to do anything, that he had laughed at the Cubans,
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 5: saying they had no guts and that they would be
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 5: easy to kill Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs invasion.
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 5: Odio said that when the group first came to the apartment,
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 5: they asked for her sister, Serrita, and when they were
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 5: told that Serta was not there, but that she was Sylvia,
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 5: they said, well, you are the one we wanted to
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 5: talk to anyway, she was the oldest. Sylvia further said
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 5: that she did not tell everything to the FBI because
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 5: they did not ask her these questions. She said she
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 5: felt the FBI interviewed her improperly, and when they came
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 5: to her place of employment and she asked and asked
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 5: about her and interviewed her there, and it became a
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 5: source of embarrassment to her and she later had to
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 5: quit her job at the chemical company, partly on this account.
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 5: Father McCann insisted that in the latest conversation, and in
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 5: most of the conversations he had with Sylvia about this matter,
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 5: she insisted that the man she identified as Oswald had
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 5: a mustache or at least looked like he had not
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 5: shaved recently. Think he was quote disgusting looking because of
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 5: his dark beard and unkempt appearents appearance.
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 2: Doesn't sound like Lee.
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 5: Definitely doesn't sound likely. In response to a question concerning
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 5: a telephone call ms Odio is alleged to have made
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 5: to New Orleans in recent months, Father McCann said that
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 5: she had never called him in New Orleans, but Sylvia
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 5: had an aunt and uncle in New Orleans. He had
• 2:28:59
  Speaker 5: then as doctor Augustine Guitard, a physics professor at Xavier
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 5: University in New Orleans, and he knows that missus Odio
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 5: frequently calls doctor Quidard, as he has been in Guitard's
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 5: home on occasions when she's called him, He said, doctor
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 5: Guitard has engaged in no political activities among the human
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 5: groups in New Orleans or Dallas, insofar as he knows.
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 5: Father McCann was asked whether he had an opinion as
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 5: to whether Sylvia Odio actually saw Oswald on the night
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 5: that alleged. He replied that he's skeptical of this story.
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 5: Sylvia did not mention this visit to anyone until after
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 5: November twenty second, and he has a strong feeling that
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 5: either because of her mental condition, she now believes the
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 5: third man in the group was Oswald after seeing his
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 5: photographs and after reading the newspaper accounts about him, or
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 5: that she may be because of her crying need for recognition,
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 5: be attempting quote in this way to associate herself with
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 5: a spectacular event in history. Father McCann said, however, that
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 5: while she is very mature intelligent, this may be a
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 5: sub subconscious reaction on her part, and she may not
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 5: be able to accept or perceive the actual truth herself.
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 5: He's basically saying that she's a head case. She's got
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 5: mental problems, right. Father McCann said that missus Odio had
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 5: expressed a desire to him to be interviewed, saying that
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 5: she will be perfectly frank in any interview with the authorities,
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 5: that she is most anxious to clear up the matter
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 5: and will cooperate wholeheartedly in any inquiry and give her
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 5: recollection of the matter to the best of her ability.
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 5: Father McCann says that this is his opinion that she
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 5: will be entirely cooperative in an interview and will be
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 5: as honest as her current mental state will allow her
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 5: to be. In her telephone conversation with missus Odio told
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 5: Father mcain and that John Martin is at your Guayan
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 5: who is supplying arms purchased in some South American countries
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 5: to some Cuban groups. Odio is now employed as a
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 5: secretary at the Kroll Associates in Dallas, and has requested
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 5: that any interviews in connection with this matter be done
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 5: at her home and not at her place of work.
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 5: Father McCann appeared to be very cooperative and friendly and
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 5: expressed a desire to be as helpful as possible in
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 5: securing the cooperation of missus Odio. Very truly yours, James
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 5: j Rally, and of course this is the director of
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 5: the Secret Service.
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 2: Joe Yeah.
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 5: Writing this letter to Jay Lee Rankin in May of
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 5: nineteen sixty four. Yeah, now we know that later on
• 2:31:49
  Speaker 5: in nineteen sixty four, when the FBI finally got around
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 5: to showing her pictures of Laurence Hall, Lawrence Howard, and
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 5: William Seymour, whom they believed just from the fact that
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 5: Lauren Hall and Seymour were arrested in Dallas around the
• 2:32:06
  Speaker 5: same time that they were the ones that went to
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 5: see Sylviodio. But she, after seeing their pictures said, these
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 5: are not the guys, These are not the guys.
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 2: Right, She did not did not identify them, correct, whether
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 2: she was covering or not, she did not, right, m so,
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 2: m hm, very interesting, this whole scenario very very I'm sorry, and.
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 5: It's another it's all based on another grift. You know,
• 2:32:48
  Speaker 5: they want her to solicit funds. Yeah.
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 2: Right, She's an important person. I mean, her dad was
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 2: a significant, you know person in the jury, and maybe
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 2: she was operating as his proxy in a sense because
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 2: he was in Cuba.
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 5: You know, James is asking any thoughts on the true
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 5: identity of Hiss. My guess it was some random Cubans.
• 2:33:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, she clearly identified one as this Eugenius as Narrows,
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 5: the first one. They were trying to tie because Lawrence
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 5: Hall and Lawrence Howard were using war names. Hall's alias
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 5: is Lorenzo Pacio, and I believe the hell was Lawrence
• 2:33:43
  Speaker 5: Howard using Oh, Angelo Mergotto, No Angela Mergatto. No, that's
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 5: a different guy altogether. So anyway, Lawrence Howard had a
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 5: war name as well. I can't remember what it is
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 5: all the time my head. It might be Angelo, I
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 5: don't know.
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 2: Sally had a good question, and I think it's good
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 2: to explain this, and I don't even have to because
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 2: they chat already did.
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 5: What is a war name?
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 2: And the double B coming through. A war name is
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 2: an unofficial name used in mercenary groups. We used to
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 2: call it signs in our military, and James said, Sally,
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 2: many of them had families in Cuba, like we just
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 2: touched on earlier in the show, So they took on
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 2: quote war names aka aliases. I'm adding that part so
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 2: as to not be identified in their covert the.
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 5: Movie Top Gun, and you have Goose and Maverick. You
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 5: know those are the war names.
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 2: If you will all sign yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 5: Just something to be called other than your real name,
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 5: you know, because you don't want you don't want your
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 5: real name out there all the time, right.
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, especially if you're a family in Cuba or
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 2: a dad in or not that Sylvia Odio was using one,
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 2: but just to use her situation, family in prison in Cuba, right.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 5: Or you know, you're doing sketchy shit with sketchy people.
• 2:35:15
  Speaker 5: You don't want people know to know your real name,
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean? Yeah, so that is why
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 5: they were using war names or aliases, if you will.
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but a very good question and something not a
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 2: lot of people might know off the top of their heads. So, uh, Paula,
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 2: when you were reading this, rob she said Sylvia would
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 2: get faint when overstressed. That was the work of mission
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 2: excuse for discounting her. And apparently mckinn h took up
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 2: that excuse for her as well.
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, didn't stop Father McCann from throwing stones to her.
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 2: Well, big bad, Josh sixty nine. I think the UH
• 2:36:00
  Speaker 2: also had a sexual relationship with her priest, no question, mark.
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but turns out, Joe, this guy has no affiliation
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 5: at all with the Catholic diocese. He's not really a priest.
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 2: Shocker McCann.
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, how many? How many Catholic priests. You know,
• 2:36:19
  Speaker 5: they're taking college classes down and you know, what are
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 5: you studying?
• 2:36:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, and they both are twenty six too. I
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 2: think Sylvia and mccam were twenty six at the time, right.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So this guy's pretending to be a Catholic priest
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 5: because hey, it's a good grift. He made it to
• 2:36:40
  Speaker 5: be in charge of distributing money to the Cubans. You
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 5: should think this guy wasn't pocketing to him. Yeah.
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the pattern of your Rob. Everyone had
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 2: their different niche of the grift, right everyone. Uh, and yeah,
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I really blamed Sylvia. If like a
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 2: bunch of skuffoozes came onto her doorstep a couple times
• 2:37:06
  Speaker 2: a month or every couple of months and ask for money,
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: I think that would be relatively normal.
• 2:37:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 2: I don't see it as the current Yeah, I don't
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 2: see it out of the Roman possibility, James. This Jan
• 2:37:22
  Speaker 2: Martin character certainly deserves a closer look. Well, James, Well,
• 2:37:28
  Speaker 2: Rob was reading this. I happened to go in our
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 2: drop box, Rob and pull up the Johnny Juan folder.
• 2:37:39
  Speaker 2: And despite sometimes we are unorganized, we have every Martin
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 2: and their files in a drop box folder. So I
• 2:37:49
  Speaker 2: pulled up just to build up on what you just said, Rob,
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 2: Sylvia Odio's Warren Commission testimony and wouldn't she know they
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 2: asked about this, of course, because this was a major
• 2:38:03
  Speaker 2: issue with placing Oswald. If he was in Mexico City
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 2: and he was actually the leon here, this was a
• 2:38:12
  Speaker 2: big problem. Right, So this was a lot of drama
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 2: going on in April May sixty four. Right, yeah, So
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 2: let me bring up the Warren Commission testimony very quickly, Rob,
• 2:38:25
  Speaker 2: and it will end after this of Sylvia Odio, and
• 2:38:29
  Speaker 2: of course talks about Johnny Martin, who was from your way.
• 2:38:36
  Speaker 2: I heard he was involved with the movement, and he
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 2: said that he had a lot of contacts in Latin
• 2:38:41
  Speaker 2: America to buy arms, particularly in Brazil, and that we're
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 2: if he were in contact with one of our chief
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 2: leaders of the underground, he would be able to sell
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 2: him secondhand arms that we could use in our revolution.
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 2: This is Sylvia Odio to mister Leibler in I believe
• 2:39:03
  Speaker 2: it's sometime in this summer sixty four, but they talk
• 2:39:08
  Speaker 2: about guess who Eugenio to talk about Before I left
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 2: for Puerto Rico, Odio says, Eugenio arrived June twentieth from
• 2:39:24
  Speaker 2: Miami to see Johnny Martin. So this Eugenio, warning guy
• 2:39:30
  Speaker 2: who was Ciscenario's right rob, allegedly, Yeah, arrived from Miami
• 2:39:35
  Speaker 2: to see Johnny Martin, allegedly in I don't know if
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 2: it's Puerto Rico or Dallas, somewhere there. He was supposed
• 2:39:47
  Speaker 2: to arrive June fourteenth, but he never did, Odio says,
• 2:39:50
  Speaker 2: and I called two times to make another appointment with
• 2:39:52
  Speaker 2: Johnny and he just arrived in time for me to
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 2: see him. Then it was a time we met, not
• 2:39:58
  Speaker 2: a Lentado, I think you just said a couple of
• 2:40:01
  Speaker 2: months ago. The other one Alvarada, Rodriguez Alvarada, both names
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 2: you just mentioned. And this is inner Wark Commission. So
• 2:40:11
  Speaker 2: they went to the house blah blah blah. Uh. So
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 2: I went to Ponts, Puerto Rico to get my children.
• 2:40:20
  Speaker 2: I moved hold on, I moved there exactly. I'm just
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 2: gonna skip this a little bit. How many times have
• 2:40:27
  Speaker 2: you met with Eugenio here in Dallas once, Sylvia, Odio says,
• 2:40:32
  Speaker 2: that was in June of sixty three. That's right. So
• 2:40:38
  Speaker 2: it's not Eugenio who was with Leon when those men
• 2:40:41
  Speaker 2: came to your apartment. No, I would have known Eugenio.
• 2:40:44
  Speaker 2: He was a very close friend of my family, and
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 2: he did on a grand activity with my mother and father.
• 2:40:50
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if Silvio's running cover here for
• 2:40:53
  Speaker 2: Eugenio or Ciscenario's. I just don't know.
• 2:40:57
  Speaker 5: Do you know, wil McCann that it was Eugenie or
• 2:41:01
  Speaker 5: the Canter apartment?
• 2:41:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, but she's not telling the war I commissioned this.
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 2: But Leebler is not the stupidest skufuza. He goes, do
• 2:41:11
  Speaker 2: you know father McCann, Yes, do you remember that he
• 2:41:14
  Speaker 2: called you on the telephone? Yes, he did call me
• 2:41:17
  Speaker 2: on telephone on April thirtieth, nineteen sixty four. Interesting that
• 2:41:21
  Speaker 2: he has an exact date of.
• 2:41:23
  Speaker 5: This because he has the letter from James Rally.
• 2:41:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, yes, a good point.
• 2:41:28
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 2:41:31
  Speaker 2: Do you remember discussing this whole question with him at
• 2:41:34
  Speaker 2: this time? Yes? He asked me if I was withholding
• 2:41:36
  Speaker 2: evidence and uh and uh as Odio lived on Lover's Lane.
• 2:41:43
  Speaker 2: Little side note here, but they You know, the audio
• 2:41:48
  Speaker 2: testimony is very long and I'm not going to go
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 2: through it.
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 5: Hold on, go back up for a second, Joe, go
• 2:41:52
  Speaker 5: back up, of course, Yeah, take the same page where
• 2:41:56
  Speaker 5: he stopped, and down down a little bit.
• 2:42:02
  Speaker 2: Oh did you tell Father McCann.
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 2: Did you tell? Leebler says did she? As Odio? He asked, Odio,
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 2: did you tell Father McCann that one of the men.
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 2: Did you tell him the names of the men who
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 2: were there? I told him what I knew, the names
• 2:42:18
  Speaker 2: of the men that I knew. Leebler, you told him
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 2: one was Leopaldo, Yes, but you did not tell him
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 2: that you could identify the other man as Eugenio. That's right.
• 2:42:29
  Speaker 2: You did not tell him that, So he's pressing her. No. Now,
• 2:42:33
  Speaker 2: I have a report before me of an interview with
• 2:42:37
  Speaker 2: Father McCann by a representative of the US Secret Service
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 2: rob in which that Father McCann told the Secret Service
• 2:42:47
  Speaker 2: agent that you had told him that one of the
• 2:42:51
  Speaker 2: men was Eugenio. But you indicated now that this is
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 2: not so, missus Odio. No. Perhaps he could have misunderstood me,
• 2:43:00
  Speaker 2: because he had the same problems with names. Yeah, probably
• 2:43:05
  Speaker 2: I did tell him that the man was not Eugenio.
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 2: Do you remember discussing with him Eugenio's visit to you
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 2: in June, I think I discussed it with him, Yes,
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 2: during that telephone conversation.
• 2:43:17
  Speaker 5: Yes, So.
• 2:43:19
  Speaker 2: Leebler, did you tell a father McCann that the name
• 2:43:22
  Speaker 2: Oswalt was never used in your presence by any of
• 2:43:25
  Speaker 2: these men, never was used except to introduce me, and
• 2:43:30
  Speaker 2: the time they left, they did not refer to him
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 2: as Oswalt Leebler, but they did in fact introduce him
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 2: as Leon Oswalt, and I shook hands with him. That
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 2: is what you told Agent Hosty when he interviewed you
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 2: on December eighteen sixty three, and that is indicated in
• 2:43:49
  Speaker 2: his report. Oh yes, Odio says, now we have a
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 2: report from Agent Hoss talk about Leopolo's telephone name, and
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 2: this goes on and on for time pay. But Leebler
• 2:44:04
  Speaker 2: had that report in front of him without a doubt,
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 2: and is trying to catch Odio in a lie. She
• 2:44:11
  Speaker 2: possibly discredit her and her whatever her identification or whoever
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 2: came to visit her, because that was a big problem
• 2:44:23
  Speaker 2: for the timeline of the warrant commission when Osma was
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 2: allegedly in Mexico City. So crazy stuff here, And to
• 2:44:34
  Speaker 2: James's point, the Wan Martin character just certainly deserves a
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 2: closer look, I think it deserves a relook by Rob
• 2:44:43
  Speaker 2: and I. It's probably been two years since we really
• 2:44:46
  Speaker 2: looked into it safe.
• 2:44:47
  Speaker 5: Tonight, and the chat's going crazy, you know. And Frank
• 2:44:50
  Speaker 5: Sturgis had a John Martin alias. It wasn't just Sturgis
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 5: in Watergate that had a John Martin alias. It was not.
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 5: Also James McCord had one, and Eugenio Martinez had two
• 2:45:06
  Speaker 5: different John Martin alias is with a different initial, Yeah,
• 2:45:11
  Speaker 5: John P.
• 2:45:12
  Speaker 2: And maybe John M or something.
• 2:45:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so three of the Watergate burglars had John Martin aliases.
• 2:45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, making up, folks, You cannot make it up. But Rob,
• 2:45:27
  Speaker 2: I think at some point we should soon take a
• 2:45:31
  Speaker 2: relook and do some Juan Martin searches, maybe in the
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 2: new documents, because we haven't.
• 2:45:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I don't know how far we'll
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 5: get if you're Guayan Juan Martin, but you know, never know.
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 5: Juan Martinez, he might that might be his John h.
• 2:45:54
  Speaker 5: Juan Martin. He might have just shortened it, you know
• 2:45:56
  Speaker 5: what I mean.
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 2: And that's what a lot of them did, Marcantinos or Martinez,
• 2:46:02
  Speaker 2: not exactly a lot of the Hispanic gentlemen tried to
• 2:46:09
  Speaker 2: shorten their names to make it more American, Martinez to
• 2:46:12
  Speaker 2: Martin being the most obvious example that yes, damn, bro,
• 2:46:23
  Speaker 2: this might be a record. We're almost at two forty seven, Rob.
• 2:46:27
  Speaker 5: Well, we had a lot to pack into this show,
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 5: and you know I was late, so we're running a
• 2:46:35
  Speaker 5: little late in the evening. We're keeping Sally up way
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 5: late tonight.
• 2:46:39
  Speaker 2: I start with, but we thank you for staying up
• 2:46:42
  Speaker 2: with us. Yes, right, I hope, I hope you're wearing
• 2:46:45
  Speaker 2: your free Ruby shirt. Mine is on the way and
• 2:46:48
  Speaker 2: should be here by next week.
• 2:46:53
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• 2:46:56
  Speaker 5: would like to grab some merch for yourself, there's a
• 2:46:59
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• 2:47:01
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• 2:47:05
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• 2:47:11
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• 2:47:13
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• 2:47:17
  Speaker 5: and contributing in the chat, because without you, we'd just
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 5: be talking to thin air. Yes, speaking of Dean Andrews. Joe.
• 2:47:31
  Speaker 2: Wait, we gotta go to Cam Ruby.
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 5: Cam, Hey, Ruby, you ready to dance. Come on, come on,
• 2:47:41
  Speaker 5: come on, come on, get your furry butt over here.
• 2:48:01
  Speaker 5: Thank you guys for hanging out. Always fun. The greatest
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 5: lies are told in the name of truth.
• 2:48:12
  Speaker 2: The greatest crimes are committee. The quotation is Jim Garrison's.
• 2:48:17
  Speaker 5: It could be used for him or against him in
• 2:48:20
  Speaker 5: this strange case. Good night.
• 2:48:22
  Speaker 2: I hope we'll get some sleep, right James.
• 2:48:26
  Speaker 5: God damn what it show. But there it is.
• 2:48:34
  Speaker 2: That's at the same time, come back connect.
• 2:48:38
  Speaker 5: With Wednesday when it's for all the members, including spooks.
• 2:48:44
  Speaker 5: We'll see you next Wednesday, folks. Until then, have a
• 2:48:48
  Speaker 5: great weekend everyone, Yes, enjoy your Memorial Day weekend. Yes,
• 2:48:54
  Speaker 5: saluting all former military, Salute you and thank you for
• 2:49:01
  Speaker 5: your service.
• 2:49:02
  Speaker 2: And current and special shout outs to tiny Yes.
• 2:49:06
  Speaker 5: Thank you for your service to the country. Thank you piece,
• 2:49:14
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 2:49:15
  Speaker 7: M M.
• 2:49:17
  Speaker 5: All right, we love you guys. We'll see you next Wednesday.
• 2:49:20
  Speaker 5: Peace out, peace, Peace,