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Transcript

Women at Work: You’re Not Too Much, They’re Not Enough · You're Not Too Much

• 0:00
  You are not allowed here.
• 0:02
  You're not supposed to be here.
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  You can either feel special by making sure that nobody is ever offended by your
• 0:09
  presence, and speak only when spoken to.
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  If you want something to be paid attention to, you have to give it to your nearest
• 0:16
  male coworker because they'll take it seriously from them and ignore it from you.
• 0:23
  Welcome to You're Not Too Much from the Different, Not Broken
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  Network, a podcast about how you're not too much, they're not enough.
• 0:31
  Space expands, so let's fill it.
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  There's one thing that kind of always happens when I talk about safety for
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  women in the workplace or how to exist while female, how to work while being
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  a woman. And how workplaces are not constructed to be hospitable to people
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  who are not middle-aged white guys.
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  And one of the first things that I always hear is, "Well, I had a terrible
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  boss once, and she was a woman."
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  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  Women are allowed to suck, too.
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  Plenty of men suck, and we just accept that as being okay.
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  Like, women don't have to be exceptional just to be allowed to exist.
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  There's this idea that if you're a woman in the workplace and
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  you're not exceptional, you are therefore not even welcome there.
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  Whereas you get these dudes who have only ever failed up and never actually
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  successfully done anything in their career, aside from looking busy maybe,
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  and they keep getting promoted, but if you get a woman who's just good at her
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  job and not giving in 1,000% all the time, she's somehow a disappointment.
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  So yeah, women are allowed to suck, too.
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  They just are.
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  I wish you the success of the mediocre white male because it
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  seems to work out for them, and they don't have to put in 1,000% just to
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  get a modicum of the recognition.
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  It's always one of the things.
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  "Well, I had a boss who was a woman, and she wasn't friendly.
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  She didn't help other women.
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  She didn't make the workplace any better for other women." Yeah, that happens,
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  but why do you think that happens?
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  I'm a firm believer that there are really, like, two personas, or
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  historically, I think this is changing now by having conversations like this,
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  but there are historically two kind of women's personas in the workplace.
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  One of them is the woman who I became when I was at my most unhappy in corporate.
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  It's the woman who gets feedback that there's something wrong with the way she
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  does things, or that she's rubbing people the wrong way, or gets feedback that
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  she's doing things too big, too involved, her laugh's too big, she's got too many
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  ideas, whatever, and she shrinks to fit.
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  She takes all of that brilliance that was oozing out of her and that was
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  making her better at her job, a better teammate, more dynamic in the workplace,
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  more promotable, and she shrinks them all inside of her so that she fits into
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  the box that she was told she needs to be in and doesn't ever branch out of it.
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  And when she has an idea, she gives it to someone else so that they
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  can claim it as their idea because it will be received better from a
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  different persona other than her own.
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  And she doesn't speak out about the things that she knows are gonna go wrong.
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  She doesn't pipe in when she's the expert in the matter because she
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  doesn't think it'll be received well.
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  She has to orchestrate getting things done in a way that won't ruffle any feathers.
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  There are so many women who exist in that place in the workplace because
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  it's the only way for them to feel like they can survive, like they can
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  have security, like they can keep their jobs, like they can not become a target.
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  For all of the ridiculous bureaucracy that's sitting around them.
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  That's one of them, and I feel like that's maybe the one that
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  we hear about more often, right?
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  The one who has been silenced, the one who's been made to feel small,
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  the one who has forced themselves to be small rather than being whoever
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  they are in the workplace because it's not safe for that person otherwise.
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  They've been told that person is not professional, which is bullshit.
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  But then there's another person.
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  There's another way it comes out, and that's the woman who strikes to kill,
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  and she doesn't leave a lot of space for other people to come up with her
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  because she's been told over and over that there's only room for one of her.
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  We can't have two women in leadership.
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  We can't have two women in the same role.
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  We can't have two women in the same field because you have to be exceptional to be
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  a woman in your field around mediocre men.
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  So if you want this space, you can't bring anybody else with you, and
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  she will eat other people alive.
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  She will seem aggressive in certain situations that don't require aggression.
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  She lives in the boys' club.
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  She acts like the boys.
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  She was brought up in an environment where if she wanted to succeed,
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  it meant other women had to fail because there couldn't be too many.
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  This was not a hospitable place for too many women.
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  Both of those personas are the same thing.
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  Those are the same thing coming out in two different ways.
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  Now, does that make it acceptable to stomp on other women in your
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  workplace and make their lives harder and make their jobs harder?
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  No, don't do that.
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  That's shitty.
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  But it all emerges from the same place that you are not allowed here.
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  You are not supposed to be here. This place was not built for you, and you should
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  feel special that we've allowed you in.
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  And you can either feel special by making sure you're the only, or by making sure
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  that nobody is ever offended by your presence, and speak only when spoken to.
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  Those are the same thing.
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  Both of those people have been told that they are too much, that their
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  ideas were not welcome, that they were not rewarded for being innovative.
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  They were punished for authenticity.
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  They were made to feel like being themselves was not
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  allowed in this environment.
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  They were hired for something, and then it was immediately snuffed out because this
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  is not a space that was built for them.
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  Whether you realize it or not, this space was built as a boys club, and
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  you should feel lucky to be here.
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  And the fact that you are made uncomfortable by the way we do things
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  doesn't mean that we do things wrong.
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  It means that you either should shut up or not be here.
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  I have literally talked to thousands of women over the last five years who
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  fit into that paradigm, who have had that impressed upon them over and over,
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  who had to leave a toxic environment.
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  I'm one of these people who had to leave a toxic environment that
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  fed their head with so many things that were not true about them.
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  That they were too loud, that they were not a team player, that they couldn't
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  operate as a function of the bigger team because they weren't willing to
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  do what management said when management was giving them something that was gonna
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  be abjectly harmful to the company.
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  That they didn't just say yes and do whatever it was because they knew better.
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  And instead of being rewarded for having the insight of knowing better, they
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  were punished for being insubordinate.
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  We're not talking about people who are written up, though
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  sometimes that does happen.
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  We're not talking about people who get suspended for being insubordinate.
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  We're not talking about people who get pay cuts.
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  We're talking about people who get left off of meetings. We're talking
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  about people who don't find out about things until after they're
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  already done because they knew if they told them it would be a problem.
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  We're talking about people who do bring up things and then get ignored.
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  We're talking about situations, and I had this happen to me multiple times,
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  where if you want something to be paid attention to, you have to give
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  it to your nearest male coworker because they'll take it seriously
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  from them and ignore it from you.
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  And I've lived that.
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  I've experienced that, and so I fully believe it when other women tell me
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  that they have it happen to them, and it happens, and I hear about it all the time.
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  The point of that is all of that demonstrates problems with the
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  workplace, not problems with you.
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  You are not intimidating.
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  They're intimidated.
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  They probably need to do some work to figure out why
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  you're such a threat to them.
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  Now, nobody's gonna make them do that work, so you're just gonna stay a threat,
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  unfortunately, but you don't have to make yourself less of a, quote-unquote,
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  threat when you're not threatening them.
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  You're not doing anything other than existing.
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  The only thing you have to do in those environments is the things
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  required for self-preservation to keep your job or to keep whatever
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  thing if you need that paycheck.
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  And so while I would love for you, love for you to give these people giant
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  middle fingers and walk out, that is not realistic for a lot of people, and that
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  is not something that I want you to do if you're not in a position to do it.
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  But I do want you to get it through your head that you are
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  not your toxic work environment.
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  The way you feel is a by-product of the fact that place is messed up,
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  but there is nothing that you have done that creates that environment.
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  You are trying to exist in that environment, and because you are
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  the person who is affected by it, it physically hurts you. And that's not okay.
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  But at the end of the day, you are not too much.
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  You are not too big.
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  You are not too loud.
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  You're not too opinionated.
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  You are not too wild.
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  You are not too bossy.
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  You are not too much of leadership material.
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  You are not too ambitious.
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  You are not too anything.
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  They are not enough.
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  You are not too big for any space.
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  The spaces are lucky to have you, and if they have created environments
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  that are not hospitable to a dynamic, communicative, brilliant person who
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  was hired for that role for a reason, that is not a reflection on you.
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  So the outcome of that is at some point you have to make a choice to
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  decide that you're not the problem, and that doesn't mean that you don't
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  try to exist in your workplace.
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  It doesn't mean that you don't try to do your best at your job every day.
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  Or, like, do what they're paying you for.
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  I don't know if you need to do your best if that place sucks.
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  I think you just need to do enough to survive.
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  Like, maybe just do what they're paying you for and don't go above
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  and beyond, and find a place that doesn't suck when that comes up.
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  So that's another thing.
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  But those environments are built to make you feel like if you change
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  something, it will be better for you, and you are gonna go pull 10,000
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  levers trying to change what needs to be better in you so that they see you
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  for who you are and what you can do.
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  You've been the same person the whole time.
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  There is not a change within you that will make them suck less.
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  There are changes within you that can make them hurt you
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  less, make them upset you less.
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  You can make the conscious choice that if they do something that is shitty
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  for the company, that's their money and their time, and good for them.
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  Enjoy it, and you're just not gonna take it personally.
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  You're not gonna let it affect you, and you're not going to accept
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  the overwhelming burden that's gonna get put on you when they
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  realize what mistakes they made.
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  You can make that choice.
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  You can make the choice that your five to nine is better than your nine to
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  five, and you're not gonna let your nine to five affect your five to nine.
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  That's a good choice, but you do not have to make the choice where you internalize
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  bad messaging from them that there is somehow something wrong with you when
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  the reality is you're dealing with a dump of toxic waste. It's always been a
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  carcinogen, and there's no cleaning it up.
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  And you didn't bring a hazmat suit, so fuck 'em.
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  You are not too much.
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  You are not too much to be successful.
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  You are not too much to be professional.
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  Professionalism is a white supremacist trope that is designed to make
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  everybody fit into the box of middle-aged white men in tan suits
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  and boring shoes, and that is not you.
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  If you can do the job with empathy and kindness, you are professional.
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  If they're trying to tell you otherwise, they are wrong.
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  Please tell them I said to get bent and do it hard.
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  If you haven't caught on yet, this is why our show is now
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  called You're Not Too Much.
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  Because if you're me, you need to hear that over and over for a long
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  time, maybe a period of years, before you actually internalize it.
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  So we're gonna start.
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  You're not too much.
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  They're not enough.
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  But there are historically two kind of women's personas in the workplace.
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  This is a You're Not Too Much breaking news update.
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  Follow up to my semicolon rant.
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  Hold on.
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  Hold please.
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  There is a person I know from the internet who is a college English professor, okay?
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  And somebody made a comment about somebody misusing a semicolon or something.
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  There was a post that somebody made and there was a semicolon in it and it
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  was basically an erroneous semicolon and it was clear that the person who
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  used it did not know how to use it.
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  I was not trying to shame them for that by any means.
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  All I said in response is the first rule of semicolons is
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  don't use fucking semicolons.
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  And expected to get a fair amount of internet hate because there
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  are some pedantic a-holes on the internet and I am only one of them.
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  Anyway, so the first person who responded is this literal college professor who
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  was like, "This is a slightly more crass way of what I tell all of my
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  students after we talk about semicolons."
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  He was like, "I tell them this is how you use them, but don't use them.
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  Nobody uses them right.
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  You will be incorrect.
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  I will take points off." And I was like, "Vindication." And then
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  like three more English professors responded, "I do the same thing.
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  I do the same thing.
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  I do the same thing." And one of them had a semicolon tattoo on her wrist because
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  it's a sign for mental health awareness.
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  And she was literally like, "I have the tattoo and I still won't use
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  semicolons." And I was like, "I have found my people." And I said, "If you guys
• 15:12
  want a really good rant on semicolons, there's probably going to be one on
• 15:15
  the pod at some point." And apparently that's going to be our entire listener
• 15:18
  base is like people who want pitchforks against semicolons, which I get.
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  Ask L2.
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  All right.
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  We have a question from Kieran.
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  "You told us not to fight with pigs, but this particular pig owes
• 15:35
  me $4,000. Do I get an exemption?"
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  Oh, God, yes.
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  You get $4,000.
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  You get 4,000 exemptions.
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  You might even get more than that.
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  I don't know why they owe you… Okay, what do they owe you $4,000 for?
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  I guess, is really the first question.
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  If it's for work you did, yes, absolutely, you can scrap and
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  get in the mud with that person.
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  If you did something that would land you in jail, then you probably just
• 16:00
  need to walk away from that money.
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  Just let it go.
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  But no, like, people don't get to not pay you, especially if you did the
• 16:08
  work and you did the work to standards, and there's a contract in place.
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  And even if it's a verbal contract, like, you should be paid.
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  And so obviously, like, as professional as possible, up to the point where
• 16:22
  they have exhausted all of the avenues for professionalism, and
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  then you do what you gotta do.
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  You are owed $4,000.
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  That's a lot of money.
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  That's two months' living expenses for some people.
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  Like, that's a lot of money.
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  Go get your money.
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  And you can be direct, you can be confrontational, you can be
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  even a little aggressive, and still be completely appropriate.
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  People are gonna tell you that it's not professional to change your tone when
• 16:52
  somebody has done something incorrect, and the reality is, you can have whatever tone
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  you want when somebody owes you $4,000.
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  Pick.
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  You want me to give you, like, a wheel of tones that you can pick from?
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  Actually, let's have this tone.
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  You get to be whoever you wanna be when someone owes you $4,000.
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  And if you need me to write them a strongly worded email, my strongly worded
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  emails have made flowers wither before.
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  If you need me to do that, you can find me and let me know, and I'll craft one
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  for you that will leave somebody in tears without ever saying a harsh word.
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  It's one of my many skills.
• 17:31
  Anytime my husband needs something written, he'll be like, "I need you
• 17:34
  to write one of those Lauren emails." I'm like, "All right." And then he'll
• 17:37
  read it and be like, "I don't know how you do this 'cause all of this
• 17:40
  is very civil and polite, and I still feel like you're about to shank me."
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  I'm like, "I know. It's my skill." So anyway, do what you gotta
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  do, and if you need a strongly worded email, I'm your girl.
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  Thanks for being here, guys.
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  Have a good day.
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  Love you, mean it.
• 17:59
  I'm so itchy all the time.
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  I'm just an itchy person.