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Episode 8: The Family Man · How Have You Not Seen This?

• Kate: Miriam loves zombie stuff and the concept Miriam: Yeah. Kate: basically of what would you do if the world was ending, how would you act? It's like her favorite premise or anything. And I'm like, I Miriam: Yeah. Yes. But that's not just. Leslye: yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Miriam: that's not my zombie content, that's apocalypse content. Please, I'm open to other apocalyptic futures. Kate: Yeah. It's not specific to zombies, but what was the T Leslye: Wait, Kate, what would you do? Kate: V show that you that you used to watch when we lived together. Yes, that one. Yeah. Miriam: The Walking Dead? The Walking Dead, oof. I had to eventually stop watching it just so there Leslye: K why? Kate: Okay. Miriam: I know it's unreasonable, but there was one character, once they killed that character, I was like, I'm out. It was like four seasons in. And I was like, Leslye: No, I think that's valid. Miriam: no, it's not okay. But I do love Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: the question of what would you do in apocalypse? Who would you be? Because it's Kate: Yeah. Miriam: not the monsters who are bad. It's the humans that are bad. Kate: Yeah, I would just not be a dick. I know that. I'm confident in it. Miriam: No, Kate, I disagree. Kate, would do Leslye: Okay, Kate. Miriam: what would need it to be done. I feel it. Kate: I'm not throwing people under a bus and like setting up their demise in order to do it. Miriam: Agree to disagree. Leslye: can we Kate, how do you get food? You're like I would be kind to people in a zombie apocalypse. I'm like Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: Kate Kate: You don't need to be best friends with them, but you also don't need to like set them up to be destroyed. That's what I think. Leslye: Kate, again, Miriam: Mm. Leslye: How are you surviving at the base level? Kate: Can w I don't know. I'm hunting and gathering, dude. I'm finding stuff. I'm foraging. I'm making myself some dandelion salad while everybody else is freaking out. Miriam: Fuck yeah. Kate: That's what's up. Leslye: Wait, you guys, I have a like how do you live off the grid book that I'll bring next time. I'll show to you. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: Yeah, Leslye would do what it takes to survive is my Kate: Yeah, but Leslye: yeah. Kate: you know what farming is, right? You can work in collectives. Like you don't need to like the two of you are like, No, you do you have to kill people. This is like Miriam: Well, I'm all for, we're gonna set up our farming agricultural return society, but unfortunately the people with guns are out there and they're gonna come and try to take what's ours and then we might have to fight back. That's all I'm saying. Okay, good. We're on the same page. Kate: I'm not saying you can't defend yourself. I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be one of the people with the guns trying to take over the other people's like happy little commune. Miriam: Yeah, I'm in agreement. If the world ends, we find each other, we set up our commune immediately. Yeah, nice. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. See, I know exactly what I would do. Miriam: eventually we will have a side meeting about purchasing our tract of land in which to set this up in case it happens. Kate: we need to work on our survival skills. Leslye don't forget the book Miriam: Send the book. Leslye: Welcome to How Have You Not Seen This, a podcast about crimes against cinema, where one of the three of us confesses there is an iconic movie we have never seen, and the other two ask the only logical question, How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: The format is simple. There's a confession, an interrogation, atonement, and absolution. At the end of all of this, we'll ask the pivotal question, can we still be friends? We are currently in our Nic Cage series. Miriam: or Nicolas Coppola. Leslye: Or Nicolas Coppola, Where do you think he came up with Cage? Miriam: I'm sure there's a great story about it. Leslye: Okay, Kate Kate, what have you not seen? Miriam: you Kate: I haven't seen The Family Man Leslye: Ha ha. Miriam: I think I'm probably the only person in the world who would say that this is their favorite Nic Cage movie, but I stand by it. Leslye: Do you really think so? Miriam: Stand by it. honestly, I feel like very few people saw this movie. But for me, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: a holiday classic. And that's all I'll say. Kate: Holiday movie? Interesting. Good job. Miriam: Maybe. Sorry, sorry, sorry, Leslye: Thanks, Miriam. Thanks, Miriam. Miriam: so sorry. Leslye: why haven't you seen this? Kate: I didn't even know it existed, I thought I had seen it at first and then truthfully I watched half of the trailer and then Miriam: You Kate: I realized I had not seen it because I thought it was the movie where Jim Carrey is a lawyer who can't lie anymore. You know, like I got them Miriam: That is Liar! Liar! Kate: mixed up in my head. Miriam: That is so funny! Kate: I got that mix up. Miriam: What?! Kate: through the trailer, I like, this is not the movie I thought I almost so I stopped. Because Miriam: Ha ha ha! Kate: I didn't want to give it away. Miriam: Hilarious. Classic Kate. That's brilliant. That's so brilliant. That's brilliant. Leslye: That is the craziest thing you've said in 30 years. you thought that The Family Man okay, whatever, let's move on. okay, what do you Miriam: my god, so good. Kate: Like he's a kind of a dick workaholic who ignores his family. Miriam: Liar! Kate: And don't think it's all that different. Well look sorry, I jumped ahead, but but it's also because I watched Leslye: This is you guessing the plot. Okay, this is you guessing the plot. Okay, no, I love it. Let's keep going. No, no, keep going, keep going. Miriam: Yeah, this is the plot. Kate: the first half of the trailer, so I do know a little bit about what actually happens that he like goes to Miriam: Hilarious. Leslye: No, keep going. Sorry, I interrupted you. Kate: sleep one night and then wakes up the next day and he's married to like the woman he was in love with in college. And he gets to have a family, right? And then I assume at the end something miraculous happens in the holiday spirit, apparently. where they get to live happily ever after. But we'll find out. Miriam: Okay. Kate: Not to be confused with the Jim Carrey movie where he wakes up one day and is not able to lie and then he has to become a good dad. Miriam: You Kate: they're not that far apart. Miriam: You Leslye: Listen, there were a lot of movies around the turn of the century that were Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: about workaholic men who needed to learn to love their families. don't know why, not sure. okay, so you've guessed your plot here, right? you went for it. Miriam: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: I do have a question for you though. Do you think this is a magical I don't know how to put it? It's like, is it Groundhog Day where he just wakes up? Or is it Big where he finds a magical fortune teller machine, Miriam: Zoltar machine. Leslye: Zoltar. Kate: I think I thought it was more like a Christmas Carol. Where it was like the ghost of Christmas, like you got to see your potential future could look like. Leslye: So you're saying a ghost comes into the picture? Kate: No ghosts. I don't know what I'm saying. Miriam: Yeah! Kate: I I don't think there's a a fortune telling machine or a ghost involved. I just thought the scenario Miriam: Interesting. Leslye: Okay. Kate: was more like you get this opportunity to see what your life could have been. Leslye: Okay, okay. So it's kind of a Kate: I don't know how he gets there though. Does he get conked on the Miriam: Mmm. Kate: head? I don't know what the mechanism is to get him there. Leslye: That's what I'm asking. That's what I if you had to take a guess, what's the mechanism? Is it him just waking up like Groundhog Day or is it him falling into a magical well? Kate: I hope it's something like Leslye: That's what you should do. Kate: super cheesy, borderline Big he opens a fortune cookie at a restaurant and it's like his Leslye: Okay. Okay. Kate: and then that's how it happens, that kind of thing. Miriam: I just want to side note, I want to side note and Leslye: Okay, obsessed, yeah. Miriam: say that I love A Christmas Carol and all iterations of it. Leslye: You love a Christmas Carol. Miriam: I even love the episode of our favorite show, Quantum Leap, that's based on A Christmas Carol. I don't know why. Leslye: Right. Right. Miriam: It speaks to me. It speaks to me. I like people to revisit their past, present and future. In all iterations. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: So good. it's a classic Kate: What could have been? Miriam: for a reason. Leslye: I like It's a Wonderful Life, which I think is in this category and of also Christmas. I really love that movie. Miriam: Yes. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: I'd it's like in my top ten. Kate: my gosh, does he try and jump off Miriam: Me too. Love it. Kate: a bridge and then instead he has a guardian angel that propels him? Is that what you're is this Miriam: I mean, maybe, Kate, do think you're going to like this movie? Leslye: Yeah, do you think you're gonna like the movie? Kate: Based off the fact that it's one of Miriam's favorite Nic Cage movies, maybe? Yes, I think I think yes. Miriam: I feel like you should know by now not to trust me. Don't trust me. Leslye: Well, we need to predict if Kate is gonna like it. Miriam: It is so hard to predict. I think that you will like this movie. your cheesy meter will be taken to the brink, but in the end, I think you'll enjoy it. Leslye: think you're gonna really like it. Cause I think that Nic Cage is really the hook of it all. I think even if you're turned off by the setup of it you're just gonna be like Nic Cage is awesome and he makes this movie awesome. okay. When we come back. Kate will have seen The Family Man. Miriam: And we're back. And we've all at this point seen the holiday classic, The Family Man. All right, Kate. It's time to tell us what did you think? Kate: Okay, first of all, I've been watching a lot of Nicolas Cage this week, and this Leslye: Yeah, I closed that. Kate: was a wild transition from Face/Off Wild. I think my biggest summary of the movie is that I was like, okay, this is if It's a Wonderful Life and Scrooged had a baby. That's Miriam: Mm. Kate: what this movie is. I thought it was good. It was cute. It was really hard to shift Nicolas Cage directions Leslye: Yeah. Kate: in the middle of this. but I think very much to his credit, he played it really earnestly. And it was just a really sweet movie. Don Cheadle was amazing. He is my favorite part. Miriam: Love Don Cheadle. Love Don Cheadle. Leslye: Don Cheadle is so great. Kate: In general, he's my favorite part, Don Cheatle is the guardian angel. Leslye: okay, so you liked it. Kate: Yeah. I love a Danny Elfman soundtrack. I think those always bring a little bit of magic to Miriam: Yes. I forgot about that. Kate: to movies. I loved the set. Like I you know it was really interesting. It was like, they're a middle class family and we don't see those anymore. And even though it was movie version of middle class, which is very clearly upper middle class. he works as a tire salesman. the set of the house was covered in stuff because they had kids. It wasn't a pottery barn, catalog. Miriam: Yeah. Kate: so I loved the little touches like that. I thought Téa Leoni was great in it, but boy was she a forgiving wife. I was like, You got over him missing Christmas real quick, lady. Not sure Leslye: Real fast. Kate: how that would fly in real life at all. You'd probably be divorced. But yeah, I unfortunately I don't have a ton to say about this one. Leslye: Well, here's what I thought was interesting. I'd be curious to hear what you think, Kate, as somebody who hasn't seen this movie. But be but because I'm now watching this like as a married person and also Miriam: Hmm. Leslye: like twenty-five years later, twenty-six years later or something. I was just kind of amazed that the characters like usually those characters like the greedy characters are punished by Forcing them into a domestic situation, and then, they realize they like it, But I had forgotten how he was fine at the beginning. it's Scrooged, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: but he's not like a full on psychopathic asshole. And that the he's well, he's making them but Kate: Well he's making them work on Christmas for his mergers and acquisitions. Leslye: Yeah, but he's not a shithead. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: But he's not a shithead about it. He is kind of like, well, listen, like, I'm making you work on Christmas because you're gonna make a shit ton of money. And then they're like, Yeah, I guess so. And then the reason the the angel helps him is because he is courageous. Kate: was helpful. Leslye: Like it's not because he needs to be taught a lesson. He's like, you're gonna get a glimpse, And it kind of really warmed my heart now being a mom and having a family, that it was like I'm gonna gift you with the idea of what it would be like to have a family. And so I had a very different experience watching this movie than I did when I was younger. Miriam: Yeah. I I agree that it was interesting that this glimpse is more of a reward. It's like you Leslye: Mm-hmm. Miriam: feel like his character, at the beginning, and I think he says it, like he could go on with his life as that rich, asshole living in having a nice car and probably be fine and happy for the rest of his life. But he gets a glimpse of At the beginning, what he thinks is this New Jersey suburban hellscape of a life. And, he gets that opportunity to feel like, what would it be like if my life was less perfect, but had, more love and family. So it's interesting what you're saying that it's not a punishment, as much as it's like, hey, you your life could work out in a different way. it's less like It's a Wonderful Life less A Christmas Carol and more just alternate universe movie, in the end. Leslye: Yeah, Sliding Door movie, yeah. Kate: Sledging tour. That's a good way to describe Miriam: Total Sliding Door movie. Yeah. Kate: I enjoyed it but it didn't hit me in the feels. I didn't get warm and fuzzies from it. I just thought it was a sweet movie. I did like that in the real reality of it that Téa Leoni character was like a real lawyer too and had a career and wasn't somebody who was on the down and out. it's a shame it was made by an asshole of a man. I don't know if we should get into that, but I was just like, Leslye: completely forgot that. Miriam: I know. Kate: Yeah, yeah. I d I was like this sweet movie with this sweet story made by this gigantic terrible human being. Miriam: I I know, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: I know. I totally forgot that it was Brett Ratner who directed this movie, and Leslye: Same Miriam: I was shocked. I was like, wow, okay, totally forgot that. But then it made me have this moment where I was like, wait, Nicolas Cage is he an asshole? So then I had to look up. my favorite Google search? Is Nicolas Cage nice in real life? Leslye: Ha ha ha. Miriam: the internet told me Nicolas Cage is widely regarded as a kind, eccentric, deeply professional person who's known for being generous with fans dedicated to his craft and free of major malicious scandals. Which in this day and age, wow, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: that is a vote of confidence. Leslye: what did you think of his acting in this movie, Kate? you said it was like a gear shift, this is a genre, like a type of genre, whether it's a Liar Liar Groundhog Day Scrooged, There are some tricks and tropes of that genre, and I was curious what you thought about his performance. Kate: he did a great job. I I think that he was believable as both the corporate guy and the dad at the end. I bought his growing as a human being, and I bought that he loved the Kate character. there were some parts of it where he wasn't okay. The the scene where at the beginning and he's supposed to have just graduated college and he looks like a 40-year-old Leslye: Ha ha. Kate: man. I was like, I don't know about this one. that was a stretch. There's also a couple of funny scenes in there, like when they went to the restaurant for the anniversary that he forgot, and this is when he's still kind of like the corporate asshole guy. And he they sit down at the table and he just orders and she's so impressed by it. And I was like, maybe this is a personal thing, but I freaking hate when men do that. Like you can't look at a menu and choose what you would like to eat for yourself. Miriam: Yeah. Kate: You can suggest things, kind sir, who's been to this restaurant a million times, sure. But you don't need to like be like, I got this. I'm gonna order this eight hundred dollar bottle of wine that then Miriam: She was like, no, you're not. Kate: nixes and just you're gonna have the house wine yeah I there were some funny parts to it where I was like I don't know about this guy I understand why I haven't seen it before, like why I didn't rise to the top of like holiday movies. getting played on T V constantly. I don't think I got the warm and Fuzzies. But Miriam, why do you love this movie so much? That's what I kept asking myself Miriam: you didn't like when the little girl at the beginning looks at him and says to him, Kate: 'Cause she knows. Miriam: you're an alien. Where's my dad? I loved Leslye: I love that. I love that. Miriam: it. And then and that's so Quantum Leap The kids always know. It reminded me of they always know. And then the animals. Leslye: The kids always know. Kids and the and the animals and the animals. Kate: Kids always know. Quantum leaps, six cents. And the animals. Miriam: And I love when she's like, Welcome to Earth. Do you like kids? And he's like, on a case-to-case basis. the reason why I like it as a Nic Cage performance is because I did feel like it was very grounded. he has his moment at the very beginning where he's dancing around naked to opera. Of course. did Kate: Big opera theme in Nic Cage's work. Leslye: Obviously. I'm pretty sure he does it in Leaving Las Vegas actu actually too. Miriam: I also think the chemistry between Nic Cage and Téa Leoni is great. I think you guys touched on this but I feel like he's not a bad guy. He's just someone who doesn't know better. he's Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: just so in this track of his life. And I do like that he doesn't really play it like Big change. Like it's such a gradual change. Like even up until Kate: So yeah, subtle Miriam: the end in his time Leslye: Yes. Miriam: with in the alternate universe, he's still like, I'm gonna get a job and pull us all out of this. and I'm gonna make this life work for me I like the idea of being with Kate and having these kids, but I'm gonna take my life and mix it with this. So I Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: like that it's never like. He like sees the light and he's like, I'm gonna give up my job. No, he's always the same person throughout. He's just accepting this experience. it is a very suburban movie. And like for some Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: reason we have Jeremy Piven in there. Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: For some reason. He's friends with all these people. He's friends with like the Brett Ratners. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: But I just think there's so many cute parts. Leslye: with you. I feel like when I Miriam: you know, why I really like it. Leslye: watched it the first time, I felt what you're saying, Kate, I kind of felt like, this is just like one of those movies. But now I had like a flip on it watching it. I might put it on during Christmas time for sure. there were things about it that I I had to give it credit for that I absolutely did not give it credit for when I first saw it. I was thinking rewatching it that usually in these films it is a comedian who's the lead, right? Like Kate: Yes, yeah. Leslye: it's one of those guys. Kate: It's Will Farrell, it's Jim Carrey. Leslye: yeah. Cause the joke or the thing is, of course, what if this complete asshole had to be in the situation, that's the opposite of their s whatever. Nic Cage will not play it like that. Nic Cage is playing this character like this is a character that exists in the world, he is eccentric, as all Nic Cage characters are, but he really is able to play the I guess the Jimmy Stewart version of this rather than the Miriam: The every man Leslye: the everyman version of it. Yeah. Kate: You're right. Cause if if you think about even right when he wakes up Christmas morning and the whole scene where he runs out the door and he gets in the minivan and he drives to the city, if that was a like physical comedian doing that, it would have been a totally Leslye: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: different experience. Maybe I would have liked it better. I don't know. like am I Leslye: Well, that's the thing. I do wonder if he's like Miriam: Ha ha. Kate: am I just y that's what I'm used to, I expect it. I also wonder too though. is this one of those movies that if you had seen it when you were younger you find those connections to it, like you were saying, Miriam, versus watching it purely as an adult. Because even the kid part she was cute. I think I've just seen it so many times in so many different iterations of the kids and the animals. know that if you ask me if this is my favorite one, no. but I do think that, Nic Cage Keep calling him Nic Cage, we're buddies. I don't okay. Leslye: That's what people call him. Everybody calls him Nic Cage Miriam: Exactly. Kate: Mr. Nicolas Cage. Nic as Leslye: Coppola. Kate: Nic as we call him. he's so earnest about it Leslye: Yeah. Kate: and it is more subtle in a way, that I don't know if got the holiday cheer from it. Leslye: do you think he's miscast in this movie? Kate: It's just the the movie itself. It wasn't the intention of the movie to be a slapstick comedic. it's not National Lampoons Christmas or whatever. It is more of Leslye: Right. Kate: a understated approach to it, like a Groundhog Day, I guess, in that sense, right? Where the comedy isn't so one liners. and I generally speaking enjoy that. approach. And again, I don't I this it was making it sound like I didn't like the movie, but I did enjoy the movie. it was cute. nothing about it to me really stuck out like this was so f fun or this was so heartwarming everything just felt kind of like middle of the road with it. Miriam: nothing like really rose to the top for you, which is fine. Leslye: It just feels friends with you anymore. Miriam: Yeah, I'm a little bit worried over here. I just feel Kate: Yeah. Miriam: I really loved their, relationship, the chemistry. I felt like there were some romantic hot moments, I love when they're on the stairs and they're fighting over the cake, and you know, like it's hot. That's hot, you know. Leslye: yeah, I love that. That was hot. Yeah. Yeah. Miriam: he approaches this situation with her where he's like, this is somebody I used to love in the past. And then he falls in love with her again, even when she's in this very different phase of life. And then when you get to the end, he's like, I choose this person to create another life with. And knowing, Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: knowing that it's not going to be the same that it was in the glimpse, kind of Leslye: Yes. Miriam: it's like they don't share this. Kate: Yeah, they don't have kids. Yeah. Miriam: Yeah, and then it's like during this glimpse that he sees, like they're together because she mistakenly gets pregnant and all these like life things happen, and then that gives them that life together. And then in the end, he's like choosing to be with her to like see what happens. I thought it was really romantic and sweet. I liked it. I thought it was so cute. Leslye: I've also found it to be, yeah, I've also found it to be more gosh, this is silly, but it's like more profound than some some films in that genre. Obviously there's films that are massively better than this movie in that genre. But Miriam: Yes. Leslye: there was more, to it that I thought was interesting. in my memory in the movie, he was a complete piece of shit at the beginning of the movie. And then rewatching it, I was like, he's not really. he does this something good, everything that we were saying before, and that sort of his reward actually is like, take a look at this other life. Do you like it? What do you think? then his goal is actually to bring them together. not to choose one or the other one. I thought was kind of interesting. and then the ending, you're right, Kate, it's like I feel like the low hanging fruit of this would have been he goes to find her and she's like been holding this torch for him and or she's like running a cake shop or something, you know. And it's like she represents she represents this Miriam: Yeah running a cake shop. Kate: Yeah, there's no there's no I just like Yeah. Leslye: feminine domestic bullshit that then he chooses again. Kate: I feel like it has this tempo in it that kept making me want to think it should have been a Nora Ephron movie. Does that make sense? should have Leslye: Yeah. Instead of a Brett Ratner movie? Kate: Yeah. But I Leslye: Okay. Okay, got it. Miriam: Fair Kate: the things that I think she's good at that get you to buy into that. I didn't buy into it so much with this movie. And I don't think it was because Nic Cage was bad or Téa Leoni was bad in it. they were great. The characters were great. I just think that there was some parts of the movie to me where I just needed it to have a little bit more like what's the destination? Where are we going here, folks? And how is that spelled out to me? I like that in movies. of this type, that aren't necessarily hard-hitting dramas or huge comedies. I need the New Year's Eve bash at the end that is the climax, I think. And the cute scene in the airport was sweet, but it didn't have that kind of feel to me. Leslye: Momentum. Kate: Yeah, I didn't feel like there was a lot of momentum. I felt like we were very sort of paced. And Leslye: Yeah. Kate: maybe that's just a personal preference thing. 'Cause it sounds like you two both Leslye: No, I feel you. Kate: thought there was momentum. Miriam: Too, I'm when I was watching it this time, I was like, this movie is aimed for people in the middle of a midlife crisis I think there's a great line in it where after 122 payments, it's going to be ours in terms of the house and the mortgage. I imagine it's speaking to people who are in these everyday lives where you have these kids and your life's a mess, but there's so much joy in it. And Isn't that better than just being rich? like late 90s midlife crisis, where like my Kate: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Miriam: dreams were stolen because I had kids young. I got involved in the family business and I didn't get to live out my dreams as a, person who works at Barclays and does mergers and acquisitions. it's Kate: Right. Miriam: I feel like it's trying to speak to those people who are like, you have an ordinary life. You feel like you've missed out on something. Nic Cage's character keeps saying, to his wife, don't you feel like you've missed out? How can you be happy living like this? If you could choose to have your other life, wouldn't you rather have it? And she's like, I choose us, I choose this life. This is what makes me happy. The kids, the mess. So I feel like this movie is speaking to that. It's a beautiful life, you know? It's it's doing it in the reverse. Leslye: this movie falls in between two extremes, and I think suffers because of it. it's not committed enough to something that honestly is kind of revolutionary. Like It's a Wonderful Life, the the structure of it, the way that the character works, like, and it's not. wacky enough to be Scrooged. so it's Kate: Yes. the feeling of that momentum, that feeling of the sort of where are we going with this? I didn't get that from this movie. Leslye: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: It felt a little neither here nor there. And I don't think that that's a reflection of the performances. I thought that they were great. you believe Nicolas Cage is this guy and I believe Téa Leoni was this woman and they were cute together. I have a lot of questions about why she just forgives him endlessly for everything that he Miriam: Mm-hmm. Kate: does, of which there's numerous occasions. Like this is a really like yeah, there's a real Leslye: There is a real real lack of conflict, yeah, there. Yeah. Kate: like gendered sway there, I think, in the storytelling that happens. Leslye: Really? I we're it's almost like they hired Brett Ratner to direct it. Kate: It's almost like Miriam: Ha ha ha. Kate: Brett Ratner directed this movie. if you had put this in the hands of a Nora Ephron, would I have felt more of that kind of magic? What do the kids say? Mid almost mid. Leslye: It is I think that's fair. I think it's Miriam: Yeah, Leslye: a mid yeah. Miriam: I do, I do, I think it definitely is a mid movie. I love it, but I don't think it rises as like one of the best movies ever made. It is just Leslye: No. Miriam: like a fun family movie. but I did want to say I do love the scene where they go to the mall, which is also part of a suburban hellscape. And Leslye: Yeah. Yes. Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: you know, he's like, This suit makes me feel like a better man. And she's like, you're not gonna spend $2,400 on a suit. then she's like, if you really need that to feel good about yourself, go for it. I love that character. I don't think that the role to me reads as like, this woman, she's like taken it from him. She's not fighting back. I feel like she very much is like showing him you're being ridiculous. Like this shouldn't matter to you. buying this suit shouldn't matter to you. Like our daughter needs shoes. Get over yourself. Yeah. Leslye: Yeah, I that's the other thing. No, Kate: Get your act together. Leslye: I like I said, it hit me so much more in the feels than it at at all, at all when I saw Kate: Mm. Leslye: it. because I think I saw it, if I'm remembering correctly, it would have been random on TV, Christmas time. Something like that was when I saw it. And I remember I remember Miriam: Yes. Something like that. Hundred percent. Leslye: thinking very much like, okay, this is like a middle of the road, Christmas, Danny Elfman. I see what they're trying to do. It's a Wonderful Life blah, blah, blah. I get it. Okay, cool. There's some parts of this that are cute. I'm not really that tuned in. Probably didn't even finish it, to be honest. only because when I was watching the end here, I have I seen the ending of this? but this time around, I was so pleasantly surprised by it. there were so many parts of it that I just thought, God I can relate with this so much now. like a little kid saying, thank you, Mr. Alien, or whatever. Like, yeah, when I was twenty two, I'm I was like, This is the fucking dumbest thing I've ever seen. and watching it now, I laughed out loud. I was like, ha ha, she thinks it's an alien. Miriam: Mm. Leslye: or like when he does the diaper thing, I was like, diapers suck. so what you were saying about who the target audience is for this movie, I feel like I have become that person. so the emotional struggles for the character are actually struggles I've thought about, even if they're done in a very cheesy movie way. That is an issue that I have a a grown up more dark upsetting version of in my life. I was just talking with my therapist, not to brag, I go to therapy. about being a provider for my family and how stressful it is we just talk about it all the time how it it does wear you down in the ways that a life without a family doesn't Kate: Do you but you put this into like a comfort movie category? Yeah. Leslye: I think it's a comfort movie for sure. I think but I think your point about Nora Ephron is really good, which is that there is a sumptuousness to her movies. eventually she goes way over the top, but even, Kate: Yeah. Leslye: This is the a good example of the director thing, right? there's a there's a je ne sais quoi about her work. And Brett Ratner is just a total paint by numbers numbers, boring forget about what a piece of shit he is, but he's just a boring director. Kate: this type of movie or my response to this movie, I put it in that category of if I turned on the TV and this was on, I would half pay attention to it while I did other things and enjoy it that way. But watching it with like like I need to say something about this, I was like, I have nothing. I've got Miriam: Yeah. Kate: nothing to say. Leslye: my God, Kate, pull it together. We gotta do a podcast. We're trying to make Kate: I'm sorry, Leslye: Kate not giving us anything for this episode. Miriam: I actually disagree. I don't think Nora Ephron could make this movie because Nora I wait. Leslye: Ooh. Miriam: because she's not interested in everyday suburban New Jersey life. She's just not. So Leslye: True. Miriam: I don't know that she could make this movie, which is about Leslye: Wait, that's true. Miriam: heart warming middle class people. I I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about that. but I I they would definitely have to have a nicer house. Kate: Like they would need a nicer house with all white furniture. Yeah, Miriam: Exactly, exactly. You know Kate: okay. Leslye: That's true. Yeah, they would have had a nicer house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a really good point, Miriam. Miriam: on rewatch, it's all about Nicolas Cage and Téa Leoni to me. I'm like really into them. I'm really into them. I was like, I Leslye: Agreed. Yes. You really root for them. Yeah. Miriam: was like, did did they date in real life? Really into them. Leslye: What did Reddit say? Miriam: Kate, you were you then Kate: ha. Miriam: after this, let's gossip about their personal lives. here was another thought I had during this movie I can't believe, and there is the moment where we see the tape of him singing, which was, we see that him in the other life, Leslye: yes. Kate: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Miriam: which is sweet. But I was like, I almost wish that there was a portion of the movie where you got to see Nic Cage play. the other the person in Leslye: I thought that Miriam: the alternate timeline, you know, because the way Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: that they all talk about him and even Jeremy Piven clearly looks up to him. the woman, the the neighbor, Evelyn, like I that woman, yeah, but she Kate: yeah. Who wanted to have an affair with him? Miriam: the way that she was like looking at him in the bowling alley when she was like, yeah, no, I'm into this. I felt like that was a really great performance. where are you really? Leslye: Me too. Miriam: You really felt like, this woman has been pining. And then Nic Cage is like like, let's do it. Let's go for it. And you could see on her face that she's like, I am so ready to do this. she's been thinking so long about how do I make this happen? And he's like, Let's do it. And then she doesn't realize that Nic Cage is gonna be like, Yeah, whatever, I don't need to do this. I'll just go be with Téa Leoni So I I just really wanted to see a moment where it was like we got to see him playing. The the other Jack, you know? Yeah. Kate: Agreed. Agreed. listen, we I we I think we have some notes on ways we could have improved this film. And I think that's an Leslye: You know what? I'm gonna no, Miriam's got Miriam's Kate: excellent note, Miriam. Yeah. Miriam: Huh. Leslye: think we've got a pushback on Kate. I'm now I'm back with Miriam. This has been a real this has been a real wild episode. Real big Miriam, I'm back in. You're right. This is Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Ping pong. This has been a Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: a really good movie. No, you're right. Cause that little moment, that was one of it Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: was one of those moments that again watch it like I didn't remember this, but watching it again Kate: yeah, I don't think we were as far off. I'm trying to like nitpick and find things that are interesting to say about this movie. And I don't have a lot of interesting things to say because my whole reaction to it was, yeah, it was cute. Like I just didn't have a strong I didn't have a strong reaction to it. that's the first time in the Nicolas Cage month when that's happened because I think he usually elicits those Leslye: That's true. Kate: responses for me. And I just didn't get and so maybe it's just partly the juxtaposition of the other Nicolas Cage movies that we're watching this month that make me feel that way. You know what? No, I'm just justifying it. No, I didn't like it that much. It was good. It wasn't bad. I just don't think it needs I don't think it needs a Miriam: You didn't like it. Just say it. Leslye: Yeah, just say it. Just say it. Kate: whole I I don't think it needs accolades. Leslye: Just say by the way, say it at the beginning when we asked you whether or not you liked Miriam: Yeah. Kate: I think I said Miriam: Just feel like Kate: it was okay. Leslye: They could have fucking saved all this time. Miriam: Just say Yeah, just be like, I hated this movie. Whatever. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Leslye: Yeah, just say it. Hey, we can read between the lines. You hated this movie. Kate: I didn't hate it. I didn't hate it. I did not stop trying to make a fight happen. Miriam: We know you, Kate. We know you, asshole. Kate: Stop putting words in my mouth. I d did not hate the movie. Leslye: You're too listen, you're too nice to let our audience know this, so we'll let them know for you. Kate hated this movie. Kate: Go Miriam: Kate hated this movie. Kate: fuck off. Okay, here's the thing. And I know that you two disagree with this, but I maintain that there is a way to be an enjoyer of movies where you're not as wholly engrossed in them. And this to me is one of those movies where I'm like a casual movie enjoyer. This is just a casual approach to a movie for me. But I probably wouldn't have gone out of my way to see it. I definitely wouldn't have gone to see it in the theater unless you dragged me, Miriam, which probably well I guess it didn't happen when it came out. Leslye: Did you see it when Miriam: I Leslye: it in the theater appearan? No, no. This was like a on TV during Christmas time movie. Yeah. Yeah. Miriam: No, I did not see this in the theater, no. No. totally and on TV, yeah, yeah. Kate: Yeah. Yeah, on TV movie. That's the right place for this movie is on TV casually during the holiday season, I think. Leslye: listen, obviously, Love Actually, one of the greatest movies ever made, but this kind of falls more into a Love Actually kind of rewatch for me, where there's some really like shitty Christmas movies that I would watch Kate: Mm-hmm. Leslye: this over some of those. You know, like somebody's like, we Kate: for sure. Yeah. It's not Leslye: have to put this on because it's Christmas. And I'm like, I would Kate: Yeah. Leslye: love to be. in the room to say, Can we put on The Family Man? 'Cause it's actually kinda lovely and you guys will like it and then have everyone Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: react the way that Kate's reacting, which is this is mid. Yeah. Whatever. Miriam: Whatever. Kate: Listen, based on all of the reviews of it, I am in good company. Miriam: You're not alone, Leslye: Whoa, Miriam: yeah. Leslye: whoa. Okay. Okay, Kate. Wait, what were the Kate: Ha ha ha Leslye: reviews? I know they were bad, but like what were people saying about it? Kate: They sort I think they said similar things, like Nicolas Cage and Téa Leoni were great, but this movie's fine. The script is predictable, Leslye: Yeah, they're very good. I just thought Kate: can be overly sappy at some points. Miriam: Kate's take is this is nothing special, but that's okay. Kate: Yeah, it's okay that it's not d it's not special. I still love you, Nicolas Cage. I still love you. Leslye: All right. Whatever. Miriam: Yeah. I do I was crying though when he says to her, we could go on with our lives and we'd be fine, but I choose us. Tears, tears. That's sweet. It's a good cheesy Leslye: That was really that was good. Kate: I am mean Okay. Miriam: line. That's a good cheesy line. And I mean, I Leslye: Can you say it again? 'Cause I wasn't listening. Miriam: we could go on with our lives and we'd be fine, but I choose us. Kate: Yeah, yeah. Miriam: Complete with a a run through an airport. Parking yeah. The kid was so good. She was very cute. She was okay. Yeah. Leslye: The kid really got me. The k the kid got me. Kate: The kid was probably the best part, I think, honestly. She was she was great. Miriam: Better than Nic Cage? asking for what you do then. I loved that. Leslye: I d I love when she he was asking her what he should do next. That that was also something Kate: Yeah. Like where do we go now? Yeah. Leslye: that was something Miriam: I actually really like that because I know with my nephews, there's so many times where I'm driving them around and I'm like, you know how to get there, right? And they're like, you know, it's Kate: Ha ha. Miriam: like an eight-year-old. And I'm like, what do I take a left here? Like kids do know it, it Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: is, they do know their routine, you know, they know what you're Kate: The routine, yeah. Miriam: supposed to do with your siblings. So to me, that was so believable when he's like, So where do I go now? And she's like his guide on this journey. I thought that was actually really, really sweet. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: But he's like he's like, Leslye: She's like, I don't know, you work there or something like that. It's like Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: why is this my life? And she's like, I don't know. I was just born. I Kate: Mm-hmm. Miriam: just showed up. you know, I don't I don't know. Leslye: Yeah, she really got a like Being a mom, you're like, they are like that. yes, she was precocious and I love that he like called it out too at the end. He like, She's a little precocious, it to me it wasn't just the the trope of like kids and dogs know. I mean it was, but I it's like I don't know. It was like she just knows it's not her dad. And it was Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: that's the thing is I think this movie does the things it's supposed to do, but does them in a left of center way enough that it becomes Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: special only to then backtrack and become boring again. Miriam: Yeah. Brilliant. That's the take. That's the take. Yeah, I love that. On that note. Kate: And excellent description. Leslye: And that and on that note and on that note Miriam: Yeah. The only the only thing I did like in the whole ending sequence is going back to Don Cheadle Don Cheadle was an amazing angel, in my opinion. And then Kate: He was great. Leslye: incredible. Miriam: and then there was something I loved about his tests. I love when he's like, wow, character. for what nine bucks, you know, when the girl at the Leslye: Love that. Miriam: end is like steals the money and doesn't say anything. I like that this movie is in its premise interested in like the your character. And it's not character, money can't buy character, but this experience does. And I think that's what's sweet. Leslye: people think that those movies are about when they say it It's a Wonderful Life quote unquote, they're saying a greedy person, from rich person to poor person, workaholic to non-workaholic, that they're these opposite sides. And It's a Wonderful Life is about someone's character. It's about who a person is deep down Miriam: Hm. Leslye: and how if that person had never been born, how that person's character affects everybody else around them. Beautiful, gorgeous, almost teared up as I was saying that. One thing that this movie does really have going for it, and I think it's why it's hard to really put it really into anything is that it's trying to do that. It's trying to be about Miriam: Mm. Leslye: his character and who he is. And I think Nic Cage gets that. I think he understands Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: that and he's playing that. but I think that the movie just isn't sparkly enough in all the other ways it needs to be. it's not like artfully done enough to be it's Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: It's a Wonderful Life And it's not high concept y enough to be a big budget Hollywood movie version of it. Miriam: I could see a version of this movie where you have Nic Cage playing the alternate timeline guy, Jack, and Jack then has It's a Wonderful Life moment. Yeah. Leslye: Honestly, yeah. Miriam: so I do. I think it's an interesting take on It's a Wonderful Life Leslye: I almost pitched that exact same thing, Miriam. I actually think Miriam: Love it. Love it. Leslye: if it had been that guy gets to be in this scenario almost like Big if it were more like Big Miriam: Yeah. Yes. Leslye: and less Scrooged, less like that. I think then Miriam: Right. Leslye: I think honestly then it would have landed first of all, Nic Cage would have had so much more fun doing that I think. Cause Miriam: yes, yeah. Leslye: you're right. Like when you see him singing, you're like, my God, which is that character? I want to see him play that person. You know. Miriam: Agreed, agreed. Yeah, interesting that we all felt that way. Well, anyway, so final verdict, Kate. Leslye: Well not not Kate. Not Kate, because Kate completely tapped out of this Miriam: Haha Leslye: episode. Miriam: Ha ha ha. Kate: Because is if if they made the movie that you two just proposed, I would have loved it, but they didn't. They made the movie that they made. I love you, Nicolas Cage. I still love you, but I'm bored with The Family Man. Miriam: Just blame, we'll blame Brett Ratner for this. For this, yeah, yeah. Blame her. but Leslye: obsessed. We do. Yeah. But like we don't even need to. We can. It clearly was his fault. Kate: Great about that. Yeah, let's let's blame Brett. Miriam: I think the only interesting second screen fact I want to mention is that I did not know that Téa Leoni was married to David Ducovny. I did not know that, and I Leslye: could you not know that? How could you not know that? That's like Kate, did you know that? Kate: Even even I knew that, yeah. And I never know any of that stuff. Leslye: Exactly. Exactly. Miriam: Wow. Okay. You guys, Leslye: Exactly. That's my point. Kate, Kate knew that. Miriam: I have to reexamine my whole life now. But I they Leslye: Okay. Miriam: were married for 17 years and then they get divorced because he was a sex addict. You guys knew that? What? Kate: Yeah, Miriam, where were you? Leslye: How did you miss this? Miriam, you're Miriam: WHA- Leslye: like a person that would know all of this. Kate: I know I depend on you to tell me things like this. I Miriam: That's why was shocked. Kate: feel so let down right now. Leslye: Truly, that's strange, Miriam, Miriam: Well, Leslye: that you didn't know that. Miriam: I feel really bad about that too. Wow. Okay. I feel terrible. Leslye: You should. Okay, so Okay. Miriam: Did you guys know that did you know that Nic Cage has been married five times? Leslye: Yeah. Well I don't know if I knew five, but I definitely knew Yeah. I Kate: I don't know five, but I knew he was married a yeah, like a bunch of times or Leslye: knew he was married to Patricia Arquette and Lisa Marie Presley and then Kate: Yeah. Leslye: whoever he's married to now. So I knew at least three, but I'm not surprised at Miriam: I knew about Lisa Marie Presley, but I think I honestly forgot that he was married to Patricia Arquette. Leslye: Okay. Kate, Miriam: thinking of somebody else. Anyway. Leslye: before we go, it's important for you to give On a lettered scale, A, B, C, maybe even a D. Nic Cage's performance in this movie gets a Kate: Strictly his performance. Miriam: Strictly his Leslye: Yeah, Miriam: performance. Leslye: that it doesn't have to do with them the you wanted to talk about the movie a lot instead of Nic Cage's performance. You you insisted yeah. No, you insisted you insisted on talking about the movie for as long as you talk Miriam: Yeah, we're here for Nic Cage. Kate: me, that was my purely my choice. Leslye: about it. So Kate: Ha ha Leslye: we didn't get to his performance. But yes, just his performance, not the movie. Kate: I'm gonna give his performance a B plus. Miriam: Great. Interesting. Interesting. Leslye: Great. I honestly would say this is a I would say this is a B plus movie, in my Kate: Yeah. Leslye: opinion. You probably think it's Miriam: It's Leslye: a C minus, but you know. Miriam: I think it's a B Kate: Yes. Miriam: movie and a B B plus Nic Cage performance. Leslye: I'd agree with that. Yeah. I'd say it's a B movie, Kate: I agree with that too. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: B plus him. I Yeah, I'll stay with B plus for him. Yeah. Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Leslye: All right. Well, thanks for listening Miriam: Well Leslye: to Whatever the Hell This Has Been. Kate: Ha ha. Miriam: Leslye that we're still friends with Kate, right? Pretty much. End of the day. It's a tough one. Leslye: Well, it was it was t yes. At the end of the day Yeah, no, at the end of the day, yes, it was touch and go. I think the fact that she would watch The Family Man on the background while doing something else is something we can look past. I think we can look past that. Miriam: We look past it. Maybe Kate, you should watch this again and pay attention to it. Leslye: Ha ha ha. Kate: I did. Leslye: Yeah. Kate: I took notes. Even my notes are boring. Like I just have nothing. Leslye: No. Like Miriam: Kate had a very Leslye moment where she was like, I'm bored. Kate: Yeah, Leslye: Yeah. Kate: basic. That's a hundred percent what happened. Miriam: I'm bored. Leslye: Thanks for joining us this week on How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: Tell us what movie we should watch at howhaveyounotseenthis.com. You can subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at H-H-Y-N-S T Pod. Tune in next time for another crime against cinema. And remember, friends are not friends unless they fight about movies. do have to go get on the train to go home. Hold on, let me see it. Let me see it. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye that Kate and I, our favorite thing is when you tell us, guys, I really have to go and then you talk for ten Kate: And then you talk for twenty more minutes. Leslye: I hate you guys! I hate you guys! Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: I hate you guys so much. Miriam: Ha ha ha. Leslye: I hate you guys. Miriam: To go what Kate: Here's seven more things I just thought about. Miriam: So good. Leslye: I I'll talk to my therapist about that as well Kate: Ha ha ha Miriam: Love ya. Kate: Love you. Bye. Leslye: Love you guys. Bye. Miriam: Bye, get out of here, Leslye