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What is SantaCon -- and Why Do So Many People Hate it? · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Ho, thank you so much
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  Speaker 1: as always for tuning in. We are back in a
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  Speaker 1: ridiculous typical history fashion. We are indeed doing a Christmas
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  Speaker 1: episode here with Belseemer Yes with Bells on with Mule
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  Speaker 1: Tide Lads, Christmas in June. That is none other than
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  Speaker 1: our own super producer Max the Frey Train Williams.
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  Speaker 2: I think we might even be a month early for
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  Speaker 2: an unseasonable Christmas discussion. Wouldn't that typically be Christmas in July? Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that would be the cliche. Soil boy, we just can't
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  Speaker 2: get it right. We're gonna get it right.
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  Speaker 3: We released the Leapier episode on the Leapier.
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  Speaker 1: Oh that's a guys, Hey, guys, we uh, we're just
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  Speaker 1: ahead of the curve.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: That's what we'll say is that this is what they in.
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  Speaker 4: The industry call it tent pole episode.
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  Speaker 2: Ben I think I've talked on the podcast definitely Off
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  Speaker 2: Mike with you about my recent rediscovery of the Birthday Boys,
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  Speaker 2: the sketch comedy show. They do a sketch called September Santa,
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  Speaker 2: where as Santa Claus comes to the window during September
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  Speaker 2: and instead of saying ho ho ho, he says hoo hoo,
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  Speaker 2: who It's September Santa, and he gives everyone a pencil and.
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  Speaker 4: It's really underwhelming. And that's sort of the joke.
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  Speaker 1: And that is Noel Brown. Oh, Ben Bullet.
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  Speaker 4: We're very on September Santa.
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  Speaker 1: Oh we are. We are talking Santa Claus, Chris, if
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  Speaker 1: you're listening. We're big fans. We've we've talked in the
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  Speaker 1: past about how Political Cartoonist and the Coca Cola company
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  Speaker 1: created the image we associate with that magical elf today.
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  Speaker 2: Hell, we talked about it in our recent discussion of
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  Speaker 2: New Coke.
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  Speaker 1: We sure did. You can't get away from it. You've
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  Speaker 1: probably also heard our explorations of Crampis, who I like
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  Speaker 1: to think of as the sith Lord to Santa's Jedi.
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  Speaker 2: I like to overpronounce it because I always once, as
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  Speaker 2: you know, a small German boy.
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  Speaker 1: We talked about the Yule Tide Lads, a rogues gallery
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  Speaker 1: of mischief making scamps with swiperd Yeah, with extremely weird,
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  Speaker 1: action oriented names, very strange.
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  Speaker 2: You know, it would be sick Ben to get an
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  Speaker 2: action figure set of the Mule Lads, each with their
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  Speaker 2: own you know, articulatable move like what is it meat
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  Speaker 2: hook something liquor sniffer, window liquor, window liquers at twin
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  Speaker 2: song to one.
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  Speaker 1: Of the things. So maybe maybe that uh, maybe maybe
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  Speaker 1: that doll's head opens and has a big tongue that
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  Speaker 1: flicks up and down.
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  Speaker 2: I just really, you know, who else has a big
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  Speaker 2: tongue flicks having down his carampoos? But I just realized,
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  Speaker 2: Ben that the AFX twin song window lickor may well
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  Speaker 2: be a reference to the Mule Lads. But we're talking
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  Speaker 2: weird fetishization of Santa Claus today.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, we'd think if you had.
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  Speaker 2: Like a furry con, a furry convention or one of
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  Speaker 2: those kind of swinger festivals. But everyone dressed up as
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  Speaker 2: Santa Claus. And look, this is not me throwing the
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  Speaker 2: furry community under the bus. I know it's not all
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  Speaker 2: about weird hotel sex. I know there's a lot of
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  Speaker 2: layers to the furry life, but Santa con Man weirdly
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  Speaker 2: horny and drunk.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the folks, we're coming to you live from the
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  Speaker 1: United States of America. A pretty popular experiment for a
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  Speaker 1: few centuries. This country in particular has conventions and parties
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  Speaker 1: and gatherings for darn near everything. Santa Claus is no exception.
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  Speaker 1: As Noel said, we're talking Santa Con. It's high notes,
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  Speaker 1: its history, its controversy, and perhaps most ridiculously, why some
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  Speaker 1: people are gonna tell you it's the worst thing ever.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. Noel Key, take us to California in
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  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four.
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  Speaker 2: I would love to ben California circa nineteen ninety four
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  Speaker 2: one of my very favorite eras, so join us when
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  Speaker 2: Santa Cohn officially takes root thanks to a guy named
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  Speaker 2: John Law and his buddies Rob Schmidt and Chris Radcliffe.
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  Speaker 2: This is the sort of the modern version of the
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  Speaker 2: con as we know it. However, it's inspiration or these lads.
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  Speaker 2: Inspiration dates even farther back to the nineteen seventies, when
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  Speaker 2: a Danish theater group known as Solvagnin decided to get
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  Speaker 2: a little tricksy and hatch a prank.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they had dozens of actors in their crew
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  Speaker 1: dress as Santa in Copenhagen and these ooh, I have
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  Speaker 1: it wrong. In the notes, I have these Satans. It's
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  Speaker 1: these Santas. They stand around this department store, they grab
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  Speaker 1: items off the shelf and then they had them to
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  Speaker 1: unsuspecting innocent customers as Christmas presents.
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  Speaker 2: This is anarchy personified ben They're basically shoplifting.
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  Speaker 4: They're stealing from the rich and giving to the poor
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  Speaker 4: sort of kind of.
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  Speaker 2: It's a bit of performance art, right, an anti corporate
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  Speaker 2: protest masquerading as sort of a flash mob slash bit
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  Speaker 2: of performance.
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  Speaker 1: Art improv everywhere style. Right. So the folks that we
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  Speaker 1: just mentioned there a second ago, they are inspired by
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  Speaker 1: an article they read in Mother Jones about this this
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  Speaker 1: group and this prank squad called the Cacophony Society. They
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  Speaker 1: launch Santa Con. Originally they called it Santarcy.
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  Speaker 2: Right, like I was saying earlier, Total anarchy, chaos.
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  Speaker 4: You gotta love that.
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  Speaker 2: And they know how to get up to some shenanigans
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  Speaker 2: in Copenhagen. So in the first year, thirty four folks
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  Speaker 2: participated in this event, wearing Santa suits, marching through the
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  Speaker 2: streets of the Golden Gates City aka San Francisco. I
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  Speaker 2: don't call it San Frana the locals and make funny
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  Speaker 2: they crash hot.
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  Speaker 4: Oh boy, you know what isn't it funny?
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  Speaker 2: Though? Been the no matter how cool people are that
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  Speaker 2: we hang with, they always think that we'll think that
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  Speaker 2: that's fun or cool.
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  Speaker 4: I'm always blown away.
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  Speaker 2: We're hanging with like very in the no people, and
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  Speaker 2: they always say hot Lanta to us, as if that's
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  Speaker 2: supposed to like, you know, be cute.
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  Speaker 4: But it's right, it's okay.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's kind of like some Uh, it's kind
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  Speaker 1: of like an American who goes to Dublin and expects
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  Speaker 1: everybody to be amazed that their grandparents were Irish.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, or orders an Irish car bomb.
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  Speaker 1: No, oh gosh, that's one to grow on folks. Don't
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  Speaker 1: do it.
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  Speaker 4: No, definitely don't do it.
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  Speaker 2: If anyone doesn't know that is that is actually a
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  Speaker 2: pretty popular it used to be drink here in the
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  Speaker 2: States where I think it is a shot of Bailey's dropped.
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  Speaker 3: Into Irish Irish whiskey, so it's half Bailey's half Irish whiskey,
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  Speaker 3: so lo like at Jambison or a totalim or do
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  Speaker 3: you drop it into like a half half pint.
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  Speaker 4: Of half pints and it's actually pretty good, but.
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  Speaker 3: It tastes like chocolate milk. But yeah, incredibly offensive.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you see, folks, Max, Nolan and I used to
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  Speaker 1: be cool. We used to party.
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  Speaker 4: We were never hear something, I'm cool now that I
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  Speaker 4: don't party.
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  Speaker 1: We were.
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  Speaker 3: I am. I am definitely cool now that now that
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  Speaker 3: I don't party. But I was never cool.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Well check out our earlier when.
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  Speaker 3: I were in the hot tub together.
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  Speaker 4: Oh boy, the hot tub times. Max, take me back
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  Speaker 4: to the hot tub times.
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  Speaker 3: We can do it again, buddy, you can bring Ben
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  Speaker 3: this time to think.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's time. I think hard passed.
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  Speaker 3: No man, Matt, Matt and his partner and I were
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  Speaker 3: in hot tub together just recently.
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  Speaker 4: Well, Dan, now I feel as out.
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  Speaker 1: You were there.
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  Speaker 3: You just went off and did your own thing at Bahamar's.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was party, and we were not We were
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  Speaker 1: not dressed as Santa I was definitely not invited either. Noel,
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  Speaker 1: don't feel bad.
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  Speaker 4: Uh, we invite it too.
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  Speaker 3: Ell, y'all were invited.
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  Speaker 2: I think the invitation was implied. All are welcome in
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  Speaker 2: Max's hot tub parties.
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  Speaker 1: And these folks, not Max and Nole, these folks who
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  Speaker 1: launched Santa Cod are trying to not create crime. Necessarily,
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  Speaker 1: they're crashing elite parties. Their co founders said they wanted
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  Speaker 1: to just shock people and put them into a different reality.
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  Speaker 2: They're just out there rebel rousing up to some mischief,
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  Speaker 2: but all good clean fun. Like you said, Ben, they
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  Speaker 2: weren't like doing vandalism or breaking and entering. So it
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  Speaker 2: was originally supposed to be kind of a mockery of
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  Speaker 2: how offensively consumerist Christmas ultimately became and continues to be.
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  Speaker 4: So there came this moment when the organizers realized that
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  Speaker 4: there might.
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  Speaker 2: Be something bigger going on here than just a one
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  Speaker 2: off kind of prank. The Coffee Society decided they would
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  Speaker 2: restage the event the next year, at which point more
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  Speaker 2: than one hundred participants signed up. And then we started
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  Speaker 2: to see a handful of arrests as these Santas began
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  Speaker 2: to imbibe perhaps a little more openly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they got jolly on the streets, is the way
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  Speaker 1: I put it. They're pretty South Santa's And I had
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  Speaker 1: a side note on the research for this. You guys,
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  Speaker 1: is San Francisco a pepsi town or a Coca Cola.
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  Speaker 2: Tow It's definitely a cocaine town, is that true? Well,
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  Speaker 2: I mean back in these days it probably was. Certainly
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  Speaker 2: in the sixties. But that's a good.
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  Speaker 4: Question, Matt. I don't really know.
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  Speaker 2: I tend to think of West Coast as being more
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  Speaker 2: Coca Cola. I think of pepsi as being more of
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  Speaker 2: a mid Middle America thing. But honestly, I seem to
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  Speaker 2: recall being seeing more Coke products.
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  Speaker 1: Let's see, you'll have to let us know, folks. This
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  Speaker 1: this thing anyway, it's called Santa Con from its original
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  Speaker 1: Bethlehem in San Francisco. It franchises out to Portland. In
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  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. Police meet the Santa Con fans and
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  Speaker 1: they suspect for some reason that these jolly revelers may
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  Speaker 1: be terrorists, so they hit them up with full on
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  Speaker 1: riot gear.
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  Speaker 4: Oh boy.
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  Speaker 2: By the way, San Francisco is definitely a Coca Cola town.
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  Speaker 2: It would have most of the restaurants, stadiums, and chain
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  Speaker 2: type establishments.
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  Speaker 4: Have contracts with Coke.
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  Speaker 1: I love you guys for.
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  Speaker 4: Their fountain drinks.
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  Speaker 1: I love you guys. Seafood soup too. What's it called ciappino?
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  Speaker 1: Something like that?
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  Speaker 4: Like a chowda?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a tomato based a tomato. Eachouda chowda.
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  Speaker 3: Jump in here as well. Oracle Park, which is the
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  Speaker 3: Athe and T Park, which is the giant stadium right
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  Speaker 3: on the bay, has a giant Coca Cola bottle advertisement
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  Speaker 3: in the outfield. I was actually I got suggestion from
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  Speaker 3: Reddit to find out which side of the argument you're on.
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  Speaker 3: Just whatever, So do they serve at your baseball stadium?
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  Speaker 2: That's who's winning the Oh yeah, that would that would
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  Speaker 2: be a pretty good canary in the soda col mine.
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  Speaker 1: And we've confirmed that Max Williams is on Reddit.
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  Speaker 3: Was there ever any death of that one?
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  Speaker 4: I don't think so.
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  Speaker 1: We know that after nineteen ninety six. The next year,
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  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Santa Quauan expanded to Seattle. By nineteen
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  Speaker 1: ninety eight, it's in Los Angeles and New York. And
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  Speaker 1: each step of its expansion to your earlier point, NOL,
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  Speaker 1: it became less of a protest against consumerism and more
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  Speaker 1: an excuse for people to just cause play and party.
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  Speaker 2: There is something kind of funny. You see it in
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  Speaker 2: like comedies of the typically of the eighties, where they'll
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  Speaker 2: be like some dude playing Santa at a you know
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  Speaker 2: what do you call it, like an apartment store or
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  Speaker 2: some kind of Christmas party, and inevitably ends up getting wasted.
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  Speaker 2: There is just something about the image of the slovenly
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  Speaker 2: hobo Santa, Yes, for lack of a better term, that
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  Speaker 2: has kind of persevered, So I get what they were
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  Speaker 2: going for with this. However, it did seem to balloon
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  Speaker 2: a little bit out of control. The Village Voice had
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  Speaker 2: this to say when John Law decided to bring Santacon
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  Speaker 2: to New York City in nineteen ninety eight, referring to
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  Speaker 2: as a situation where a San Franciscan strapped on a
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  Speaker 2: fake white beard, donned a twelve dollars red suit, and
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  Speaker 2: led two hundred Santas as they went caroling up Fifth
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  Speaker 2: Avenue in Manhattan. During their joyful march uptown, throngs of
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  Speaker 2: bustling New Yorkers and tourists paused to gauk at the
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  Speaker 2: sea of Redfeldt and Vlure. A police officer yelled, Hey, Santa,
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  Speaker 2: can you get me a date with Cindy Crawford?
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  Speaker 4: And I'm walking here. It's so New York. I love it.
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  Speaker 2: So it seems like this guy was sort of charmed
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  Speaker 2: by it. It's a village voice being a bit of
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  Speaker 2: a you know, snarky rag, So it doesn't seem like
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  Speaker 2: the ultimate implications had become.
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  Speaker 4: Clear yet where this was heading in New York.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Initially it was just a fun thing for you
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  Speaker 1: to see in the city, right, and you would say,
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  Speaker 1: you know, hey, Santa, you're walking there. These folks weren't
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  Speaker 1: breaking stuff. They were strolling around public areas, they were
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  Speaker 1: climbing on public statues, they were singing loud Christmas songs,
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  Speaker 1: and ultimately they were just a bunch of red suited scamps.
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  Speaker 1: They had their the lure and they would be they
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  Speaker 1: would be partying. I'm going to be honest, I think
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  Speaker 1: they were probably using drugs. Not to sound too much
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  Speaker 1: like a square, but they were peaceful. So whenever local
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  Speaker 1: security came up to them and said, hey guys, you're
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  Speaker 1: all dressed like Santa, and you were all clearly not
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  Speaker 1: able to drive.
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  Speaker 2: So it was probably the kindly Irish cop that said
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  Speaker 2: moving along, fellows moving a law.
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  Speaker 4: Right, They complied, and the Santa said ho, ho will go.
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  Speaker 1: They left. It was pretty wholesome. It seemed like everyone,
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  Speaker 1: even unto the police and the security guards to your
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  Speaker 1: earlier point, was having a bit of fun with it.
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  Speaker 1: One of the coolest examples of this comes from John
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  Speaker 1: Law himself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Johnny Law himself were called a particular moment of
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  Speaker 2: inspiration where the Santas wandered in their throng into Central Park,
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  Speaker 2: where they found a crowd of ice skaters reveling on
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  Speaker 2: a frozen pond. This the Santas yelled at them, Merry Christmas,
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  Speaker 2: and the skaters screamed back cheers of appreciation and you know, jubilants.
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  Speaker 2: It was just, you know, a lovely moment. They were appreciated.
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  Speaker 1: This was a really cool moment for john and Law.
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  Speaker 1: He says that he hated Christmas ever since he was
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  Speaker 1: nine years old and learned that everybody spoilers three to one.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: If you are under nine years old, turn off the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: podcast now three two. What he learned that Santa is
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  Speaker 1: not real.
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  Speaker 2: And he's real if you believe he's real in your heart.
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  Speaker 1: Sure. There were probably two hundred of them getting drunk
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  Speaker 1: later this year, very real, he says. He says, later,
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  Speaker 1: I almost started crying. I stopped hating Christmas. Then that
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  Speaker 1: was the beginning of my existential life. I thought Christmas
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  Speaker 1: was belowney and everything we're told is a lie. All
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  Speaker 1: the companies are just trying to sell you stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Ah, they say the Johnny Law's heart grew three sizes
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  Speaker 2: that day. This is some real grants you still Christmas
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  Speaker 2: Catharsis year. That's when Law really truly felt the power
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: of Christmas as a symbol and he realized, and this
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  Speaker 2: is in his words, people just want to feel warm
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: and fuzzy and they just want to join together beauty.
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  Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I mean, if there's anything I
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: like about Christmas, it is that very aspect. And I'm
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  Speaker 2: not like super against the commercialism.
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  Speaker 4: Of it, you know whatever.
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  Speaker 2: I'm a bit of a shopper, but I do enjoy
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: the decorations, especially in a place like New York where
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: there feels like there's magic in the air. I'm a
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: sucker for that stuff. And it's mainly because of the
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: things that he's describing here, that kind of community quality.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Dude, Asia does Christmas amazing. It's boggers, you know. And
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: if you get a chance to check out a Christmas
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: market in Europe, please do. It's just fascinating. And Santa Con,
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  Speaker 1: I think we can make an argument Santa Con is
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  Speaker 1: not inherently a bad thing, but as it grows, as
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: it becomes a franchise and a global tradition. We see
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: more Santa's equal more problems. It's currently spread to forty
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: four different countries across the planet, and we talked about
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: the metropols like New York, London, also Vancouver, Belfast, Moscow.
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  Speaker 4: They do it in our humble metropolis of Atlanta.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I'm going to be honest with everybody,
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  Speaker 1: I actually avoid it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's much maligned if you haven't gotten the hint
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  Speaker 2: of where it's heading. It has become quite the quite
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  Speaker 2: the problematic event.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: After that first trip to the Big Apple, John Law
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  Speaker 1: was thinking we should just pull the plug on this thing.
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  Speaker 1: But it was too late. Already it already caught fire, right,
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  Speaker 1: and it took on a life of its own. It
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  Speaker 1: morphed into less of an anti consumerism thing and more
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  Speaker 1: into like a frat, energy, booze and drug focused public party.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. It's basically just an excuse to cause trouble.
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  Speaker 4: And get wasted in public.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where we see some of the
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  Speaker 1: earliest controversy because people in New York and people in
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  Speaker 1: other cities where this becomes a regular event had taken
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  Speaker 1: to hiding indoors, to literally quarantining themselves until the madness
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  Speaker 1: was over. There's a great quote from The New York
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  Speaker 1: Times writing about this in twenty thirteen, and they say
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  Speaker 1: it's a holiday that actual New Yorkers hate.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's true, Ben, and I actually witnessed some of
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: this myself by accident a couple months ago, when I
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: found myself in Midtown Manhattan during Saint Patrick's Day and
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I was just like, goodness, this is like Marty Grass here.
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  Speaker 4: It really really was.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: New Yorkers have long endured other people's celebrations on Saint
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Patrick's Day. They noticed day out of the pubs in
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Midtown if they do not want to be overwhelmed in
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: a sea of semi conscious green.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: So these kind of like public.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Drunken revelry type events are already wearing thin on people's patients.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Did I hear in New York? Yeah? Did I ever
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: tell you guys about the time I accidentally ended up
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: in Savannah, Georgia during Saint Patrick's Day. It was not
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: my best adventure.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: People really loved Saint Patrick's Day and Savannah as well.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And it's apparently quite the quite the quite the show
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I often hear here. I often hear of things like
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: this being referred to as amateur hour.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I was on River Street and a fight
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: broke out at this restaurant that was basically a bar
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: at that point, and a guy pulled a knife and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: then yelled something about Saint Patrick and then walked outside
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and the cops got them. It was a very strange occasion.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: There was going to be a rumble.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Well, there were a lot of flying stools. But anyway,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: as we're saying in New York Times, the quote continues,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: they being the New Yorkers avoid driving into Manhattan at
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: all costs during the Puerto Rican Day Parade because it
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: turns the heart of the borough into a vast parking lot.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Fashions night out is an occasion to stay in if
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you live in Soho. And New Year's Eve to our
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: earlier point, guys, amateur hour, Yeah, in less than out
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: of town visitor drags native kicking and screaming into Times Square.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I won't even watch it on TV. It's triggering.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, I look, I'm no judgment anywhere to anybody.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: But we think it's cool to use actual bathrooms instead
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: of streets or diapers.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Well, we're going to get to that because that definitely
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: becomes a feature of Santa Claus. So now we've got
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a new contender emerging for the New York Times for
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the event that many New Yorkers most love to hate,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: and that is Santa Con. They note that it's really
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: just become kind of a massive pub crawl with no
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: particular leadership, no sign in, no tickets issued, a secret
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: route that isn't really revealed until the last minute to
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: keep the you know, the cops off the scent, as
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: well as something that you refer to here in the
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: notes here as the anti Santy's which may well be
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: a contingent that's starting to emerge in New York.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and in Santa CON's defense, they've always had two
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: very simple rules. One dress up, wear some kind of costume,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and two don't make kids cry.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like imagine the Typically they're
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: more often than not breaking the second rule.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: If they're breaking any of I think you're right, But
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: why is santav Santa's nose?
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Right? Mom? Why doesn't Santa wear pants? So despite this
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: wholesome beginning, Santa Con is getting a reputation problem. You
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: would see local activism in New York especially where people
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: would print and distribute flyers in advance of Santa Con
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: and they would say stuff like alcohols soaked Father, Christmas
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: themed flash mob, not welcome here, take your bodily fluids
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and public intoxication elsewhere.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: For sure, bodily fluids being key.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: A lot of instances of public urination, people you know,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: vomiting in the streets, groping women.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Just absolute.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I think I used this word recently chic Canary Canary then.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, chicanery noll for sure. I mean police in Hell's Kitchen,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: which was still kind of a tough neighborhood at the time,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: they would send letters to people who owned restaurants and
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: bars and they would say, please look, if someone's dressed
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: as Santa and you know they've had enough to drink,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: don't overserve them. One guy, we got to shout out.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Police lieutenant at the time, John Kochie said, having thousands
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: of intoxicated party goers roam the streets urinating, littering, vomiting
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and vandalizing will not be tolerated in our neighborhood. I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: just love I can't escape it. I know why people
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: have a problem with it, but guys, I cannot escape
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the concept of how epic this would be. As a
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: movie that takes place one night and there's someone who
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: gets roped into Santa Coln.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I'd be interesting. I could see that. Yeah, sort of
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: bad Santa. We already have that, But that's not quite
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: the same. It has to be on mass and has
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: to be just like a fly on the wall that
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: gets sort of absorbed into the Santa hive and really quickly.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I'd like to walk back my use so she canary.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: The word I was actually looking for was debauchery. Canary
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: is a great word, but it more refers to the
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: use of clever tricks and subterfuge in order to manipulate
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: folks to their own ends, which is not what these
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Santas are doing at all.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: Because I don't have their wits about them.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: It is utter debauchery and Bachanalian fiasco in those streets.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Agreed and great note they are debauched for sure, and
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: locals like imagine you live in one of the neighborhoods
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that gets absolutely rollicked by Santa cod you're a local,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: You're probably worried about your children, if you have them,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: you probably want to stay inside, and you know full
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: well that no matter what the organizers say, they have
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: no control over. The participants will be peeing in the streets, littering, puking,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: as said, groping people. There were arrest every single year.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: And what is you know, fundamentally problematic about this is
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: it's not Santa behavior, It's not cannon.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: No, Santa's jolly, but he's not drunk. I mean, I'm
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: sure he loves a sip of schnapps, you know, along
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: with the best of them. But like the guy, he
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: keeps his wits about him. Think of all he has
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: to accomplish and such a short amount of time, he's
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: got to be sharp, he's got to be locked in.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the Marvel universe, he's officially, you know, Omega
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: level mutant, which is the highest level of mutant. I'm
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: fun at parties, no, No, but not as Santa Con
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: because I've never been. I don't have plans to go.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: One of the co creators later said, look, the original
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Santa Con was awesome. You see somebody wake up from
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: this zombie like thing into beat me here, Max. Holy shit,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: there's something going on around here that I can't account
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: for it. The original Santa Con created a send of
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: wonder they were being silly and stupid, and I think
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: that's where things were wrong.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right, because we started to see the lines
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: being blurred where when alcohol gets added to the equation,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: it's real easy for things to go from good, clean.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Fun to you know, crime doing crimes.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: The creators were increasingly frustrated with this kind of bastardization
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: of their original idea, which was more about kind of
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: sticking it to the man and the theater of the absurd,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and essentially it had become just an excuse to drink
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: in public for public intoxication and bad behavior, so they
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: more or less began to distance themselves from it. However,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: the adventure still continue because, as we know, sometimes when
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: things take on a life of their own, the original
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: creator's intent no longer really matters.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is perhaps the greatest crime of all. One
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: person's fun haying maybe another person's actual crime saying. The
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: adventures continue, Santa Coon's reputation worsens over time. The organizers
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: typically remained anonymous, but they were doing their best to
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: tamp down the outcry from the public and the chaos
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: from the participants. If we fast forward a little bit,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: then we get to twenty twenty five where we see
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: a phenomenal documentary called Santa Con.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in a burst of creativity, I would say it, Ben,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: but you know what, it gets the job done.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: We know what it's about.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So this guy Seth Porgy's who is the creator of
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the film, sums up the problem of pranks versus problematic
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: behavior is pretty elegantly when he had this to say,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: random absurdism, as we were mentioning before, was the point.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But within the random absurdism, we all can put our
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: own message into it, our own interpretation, our own feelings
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: about this thing, and unearthed something within all of us.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I think the implication here is that some of the
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: things that get unearthed are kind of dark.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah to someone saying this is why we can't have
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: nice things, Max, can we get you to say that
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: on air so we can use it as a meme later.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: This is why we can't have nice things?
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, phenomenal step aside Shakespeare, that's Max Williams. Can we
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: do Max with the facts.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: We must seeking in the phone? And he's fallen knowledge
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: it's just for you right now? The fact.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's gonna be the second one of this
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: episode already.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: Well, then definitely not.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: We have time for one more recent controversy. Uh Santa
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: con haters, and there are many. We're thrilled as heck
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: by the newest Chris Kringle scandal. I occurred just last month,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: as we are recording here at the end of May.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Courtesy of the Guardian. This comes to us Stephen pil
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Day's p I LDEs I'm not sure I pronounce the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: last name, is the organizer of Santa Klow in New
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: York City got arrested no for allegedly using hundreds of
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: thousands of dollars from charity donations for himself.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: We may have buried the lead on that just ever
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: so slightly, because I think most of these santacom gatherings
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: are marketed as being for charity, yes, which adds a
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: whole other kind of layer of kind of grossness to
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: them when you consider what they end up becoming. But
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: now we have absolute confirmation that, yeah, something's definitely rotten
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: in the North Pole.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Oh. I like that man, At least in one I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: was just saying, Oh, no, I love it man, I
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: think it's perfect. This guy repeatedly said all the proceeds
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: like you were saying, no, go to charity. I don't
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: get any money from Santa Con or anything related to it.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: No producer receives any income from this event. But it
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: turns out the courts don't think that is true. The
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: guy took some extravagant vacations, he went to some really
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: nice places, and Santa Con events generated something like two
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: point seven million dollars from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: And that'll buy you a lot of milk and cookies.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll get your shops as well. I imagine, keep you
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: in the lure. The Feds, the federal prosecutors, i should say,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: alleged that this individual took the money and donated only
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: a small fraction of it to charity, which is why
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: we all have to remember to be very I'm not
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: going to say cynical, but folks, just be aware when
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: you donate to something and it says a portion of
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the pro proceeeds go to charity, trust but verify, trust, verify.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Shout out to Ronny. This is who Ronald Reagan.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, yes, of course, of course, ron Well, Yes.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, ron Well. Perfect. They have folks, this is
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the story of Santa Con.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: So far.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: It might sound ridiculous for a bunch of people to
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: dress up like characters from folklore and then party, but
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I at least have to be very transparent glass house
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: about this because I went to Renaissance Fair or Renaissance Festival.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: It had an amazing time, and you guys, it's.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: A great hang, you know, and where would we be
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: without events involving dressing up in funny costumes, giving you know,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: praise to some unseen spiritual force and you know, getting
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: totally wasted.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically what religion is, well, what happens next
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: to Santakon? Will it become a religion? Will it be
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: a historical footnote? Before we end, we got to give
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the last word to our phenomenal documentarian we mentioned earlier.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Our filmmaker says, everything changes for me. The big takeaway
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: from the movie is how, rather than allowing themselves to
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: be upset and angry that their creation has changed so much,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: the owners have just accepted the fact that it's okay
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: that it isn't for them anymore. And side note our
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: documentarian here, he originally wanted to make a hit piece
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: on Santa Con and then he fell in love with it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Over the course of filming, and he said, Hey, maybe
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: being silly and stupid isn't that bad after all.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think we're saying that it's bad, that
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: being silly and stupid is bad, but I think we
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: do perhaps come down on the slightly more negative side
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: when it comes to just absolute public intoxication and acting like,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: you know, a bit of it.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: Like a pill.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just so worried about the kids.
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, think of the kids. That's seriously, this is how
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: you want them to find out.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: That is how you want them to find out. We
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: can't wait to hear your thought. Shout out to all
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: the Santa fans in the crowd. I'm saying it like
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: it's one.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Word or the anti Sandy contingent that is out there
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: trying to you know, fight fight crime. What if the
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Santa con folks actually like banded together and became like
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: the Foot Clan or something like that.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: That'd be cool, That'd be pretty cool.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: And then you had the anti Sandy contingent out there,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: you know, trying to put a stop to their devisive shenanigans.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: The phrase anti Sandy is clearly going to be stuck
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: in both of our heads. For the rest.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: It's true, and I blame you, and no, you know what,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I credit you.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. We've got to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: also credit our super producer, Max the Freight Train Williams. Max,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: when did you learn that Santa Claus is kind of
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: a conspiracy?
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: About twenty minutes ago?
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: This is how you find out.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I just remember finding a skateboard in my parents' closet
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: and I knew something was a miss And that was
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: last week too.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Now I'm an evil older brother. So Alex, as soon
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: as Alex found out that Chris Santa wasn't real, he
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: made sure I knew that Santa wasn't real.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Shout out to our composer by the way of segues there,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Alex Williams. He made this slap and bop you're hearing
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: at the end.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Chris frosciotis Naves, jeffco here in Spirit, Jonathan Strickland The
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Quiz to A J Bahamas Jacobs.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: The Puzzler, Doctor, Rachel Big Spinach Lance, as well as
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: you will love them. So Hie thee to my favorite
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: podcast platform of choice, and uh, we're gonna end this
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: episode with some Friday energy nol. I've got to look
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: up santi costumes. Let's see, they can't be that expensive.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Now, right, No, they're twelve dollars. We said so earlier.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe with you know, accounting for inflation, maybe they're now.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And it depends on the quality. You're right, the price
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: of alure could well have taken a spike along with
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: the price of gas.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Updates to continue.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: We'll see you next time. Books.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.