Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 303 - Mafia Connections And Foreknowledge Of The Assassination

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 303 - Mafia Connections And Foreknowledge Of The Assassination · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: They actually to go to this show.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: What was it called Delives of.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: The Wives of Fletcher Party?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: What right show? Yeah?
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: What an embarrassment?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I mean Rob Clark, Joe Bordelli.
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  Speaker 2: In the Heart of Dallas, Religions unfolds until shadows, mysteries.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And sold but truth is obscured in the depths of
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: the night, the Lone Gun and podcast sheds a Flickering life.
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of
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  Speaker 4: nineteen seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for research, analysis,
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  Speaker 4: education and commentary purposes.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: We hear at Loose.
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  Speaker 4: Moose Productions reserve that right now, on with the show.
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  Speaker 4: Here's Joe b and the Triple b Hey Andrew Deane
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: House things in Texas.
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  Speaker 2: Everything is going to hail down here in Duston Chez.
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  Speaker 5: Joey and Joey Joey and then trumble Bee Baby Jumbley
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  Speaker 5: and Joey Rock Doggy Shoe Ready, trumble Be and Joby
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  Speaker 5: Showy and trimble Be, Mama jumbo By and.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Joby Rock Doggy Shoe a red shine, I is sinking
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  Speaker 3: and show the chef che is the joing change.
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  Speaker 1: And here we go and here we go. That's right,
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  Speaker 1: what's up, everybody? Welcome in. Welcome in. It is episode
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  Speaker 1: number three oh three of the Lonego podcast. And I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: have a big bad bob here along with you and
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  Speaker 1: me is mister bearded clam himself, mister Joseph Burelli, the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: man that can grow a beard overnight, folks, overnight.
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  Speaker 2: A couple of days. But it's definitely pretty quick. But
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: not a full beard.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: A little uh scruff, but well scruffy scruff.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just for tiny dancer. But oh.
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  Speaker 1: One, Yes, Happy Friday, everybody. We got a hell of
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: a show for you tonight. Hopefully we sound okay, let
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  Speaker 1: us know if we don't. We got some new audios,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: new angles, so let us know if we're sounding good
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: to you, because we sound good to each other, but
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: we don't know if we sound good to you. Let's
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: welcome everybody in here. Joe, we got crowded room in
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: here so far.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: You do sound a little uh staticky to me?
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  Speaker 1: No, I sound staticky to you.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Now You're a better.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we do or not. I'm a
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: bit muffled. Hmmm. What the hell? Okay, it's not me
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  Speaker 1: not clean? Sound I I sound staticky?
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  Speaker 2: My friend said, hello, Vinne.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: You sound staticky when you talk.
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  Speaker 2: Apparently we both do.
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  Speaker 1: It's just you, boy, Venn. He's telling you to fix
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  Speaker 1: your mic. I know you got a loose connection or
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: loose wire somewhere.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I haven't touched it since we the pre check I venue.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us, all right, just say hello
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: everyone here.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, you sound like you're talking like really quick. Joe's
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: still at the Fish concert from last week, folks, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: he just doesn't know we're doing a podcast yet. So
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: what's up, everybody. Let's see he was in here half
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  Speaker 1: for sixty six. Big Mike is in here. South to West.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Trey might be missing tonight. He's headed to Shreveport to
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: meet with General Walker at the Gay Nineties Club. Folks.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Of course, Tiny Dancer is here. Hello, TD Claude, Nanty
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Dean are in the house checking in James. What's up, buddy?
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: We mad dogs and Englishmen. Paul Cummings is in the house.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Miss Sally is in the house. From across to Pond,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Hello Sally. Nobody f's with the Jesus. I like that. Helloh,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: mister Hawaii must be nice. Paul's in the house. Paul
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: is in the house. Jack Jack what's up, buddy. Of course,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Joe's boy Vinnie is in the house. What's up? What's up?
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  Speaker 1: Let's see, James, your garden guns is here?
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  Speaker 2: Of course, Hey, garden and guns. How am I sounding
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  Speaker 2: to you?
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  Speaker 1: Know, sir, you sound a lot better. I don't know
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  Speaker 1: what you did, but I.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Just pressing buttons.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. I think we're good and welcome in peach sister's
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  Speaker 1: kitchen the first time on her live. Everybody make her
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  Speaker 1: feel welcome, and you're gonna get some more of my
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  Speaker 1: readings this evening. Don't worry, Colleen, our rocket queen is
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  Speaker 1: in the house.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, high Peaches. I think she came over from out
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  Speaker 2: of the blank actually, because I remember her in the
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  Speaker 2: comments section there.
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  Speaker 1: Oh cool, Well, welcome over, Paula. Thank you very much,
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  Speaker 1: Paula kicking it off boom.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you Paula.
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  Speaker 1: And let's see. I think that's everybody, Tracey. The building
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  Speaker 1: is vacant and the sign is blank. Yeah. But the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: key thing here, Trey, is that you tried Gay nineties.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and the game gay Nineties might come up this episode.
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  Speaker 1: Row. We need to picture Trey in front of the
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: gay nineties sign. That would be epic, is it?
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  Speaker 2: Still there.
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  Speaker 1: That's what he says, Hello calling Colleen. Helloon, Hey guys
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  Speaker 1: that my.
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  Speaker 2: My sound is still a little uh was shot over here,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: so you sound a little Rob, not the best as
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  Speaker 2: it did before. But if anyone has continued thoughts on it,
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  Speaker 2: who was sounding the worst? Just let us know as
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  Speaker 2: we try to.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I guarantee this episode, I will not be freezing.
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  Speaker 1: My video will be money. I went back to the
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  Speaker 1: old webcam folks.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so we yeah, we sacrificed video issues to
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  Speaker 2: some audio issues.
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  Speaker 1: Hey see, thanks Paul. You know, I just spent two
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  Speaker 1: hundred and thirty dollars on this piece of microphone, so
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I'm a little perturbed. It doesn't sound very good. Unless
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: maybe I need to get all up on this thing.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know, first time using it. I'll get the
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: bugs worked out of it though, eventually. Yeah, sound is
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  Speaker 1: all good, all right, Vinnie, Thank you for that, Thank.
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  Speaker 2: You, Vinnie. All right, So before we get started, Rob,
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  Speaker 2: I just want to share Oh yeah, yeah we did.
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  Speaker 2: I just want to share a picture from fish last weekend.
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  Speaker 1: You always spent your money, well, folks.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I exactly why I wanted to bring it up.
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to I tried sending a video. It didn't
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  Speaker 2: send in my email, but I was able to not
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  Speaker 2: that I couldn't afford ticket, but I appreciate the super
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: chats that allowed me to go. I bought a beer
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  Speaker 2: or a few or mixed drink actually, and had a
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  Speaker 2: great time. I had a great birthday. So I want
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  Speaker 2: to thank you all. It was a record night for us,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Rob in a good way.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you need to have more birthdays.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, still didn't, still didn't after we deduct the fish
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  Speaker 2: ticket though, you know you.
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  Speaker 1: But remember once in a while trying to upgrade things
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  Speaker 1: around around the studio, and uh, you know, sometimes it
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  Speaker 1: just takes a little while to work the kinks out.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Trust me, we'll get them worked out. I'm not very
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: navio logically savvy, if you will. So when you're working
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: with a high end microphone and a and a sweet
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: mixer and you're trying to stream live on YouTube through
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: stream yard, sometimes things don't always work the best together
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  Speaker 1: until you figure it out. So thank you for bearing
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  Speaker 1: with us. Thank you, thank you. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, uh all right, let's get into it, Rob. So
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  Speaker 2: as Rob and I talk during the week and we
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: throw around possible I had an interesting idea, and I
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: want to hear what you guys think in the comments
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: and the live chat. Oh wow, thank you Peaches. And
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I had an interesting idea, a fun idea. So I
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: figured over the next month, if you guys like this
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: kind of way to start the show, Rob and I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: would both pick someone of a that falls into a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: certain category. So this week, as you could tell, maybe
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: with the title, the cover image would be someone with
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  Speaker 2: foreign knowledge. I'm going to talk about someone who I
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  Speaker 2: think had for knowledge of the assassination. Rob is going
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to go into the other the person he thinks had
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  Speaker 2: four knowledge of the situation assassination, and next week we
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: will do maybe a plotter or someone we think was
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  Speaker 2: a plotter. Like we're not making you know, we're not
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  Speaker 2: dying on this hill.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 1: And solve the case, right, Yeah, We're.
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  Speaker 2: Not gonna just throw out names like a recent big
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: big name podcast Rob writer and just throw out names
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  Speaker 2: with no evidence. But we're gonna, you know, pick one
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  Speaker 2: person who we think had a role in each So
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: it would be this week for knowledge, next week plotter,
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  Speaker 2: and it does not have to go in this order.
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  Speaker 2: Someone on the ground the week after that on the
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  Speaker 2: ground team and someone who everyone in the community thinks
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  Speaker 2: was had pre knowledge or was a plotter, but we
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  Speaker 2: don't think had had pre knowledge. So and we could
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  Speaker 2: come up with other categories as well, but we thought
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  Speaker 2: that would be interesting, and we may as well just
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  Speaker 2: started off with the person who I'm going to talk
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  Speaker 2: about very briefly tonight, where Rob gets into his name
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  Speaker 2: someone I think had pre knowledge.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so, Trey, don't hold your breath.
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  Speaker 2: What a train. Oh and one more thing before I
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  Speaker 2: get into this. I became a This is actually relevant.
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  Speaker 2: I became a godfather last weekend.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, you did you Italian Stallion?
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  Speaker 2: No, it was like a big deal for me because
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  Speaker 2: the title, of course.
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  Speaker 1: And hopefully baby never needs his godfather.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah from your lips right?
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  Speaker 1: Uh.
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  Speaker 2: And that person is John Martino, and I know a
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  Speaker 2: lot of people will be familiar with that name. He
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  Speaker 2: was obviously a mob associate. He let's see about this.
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  Speaker 2: He was hold on here, brought up the wrong slide.
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  Speaker 2: Can you see this.
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  Speaker 1: All? HONESTLYE is John Martino?
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  Speaker 2: Bro Okay, that's good. So John Martino was Cuban X,
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  Speaker 2: not a Cuban X. How he was a mafia related
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  Speaker 2: He was born in Atlantic City. There we go in
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  Speaker 2: nineteen ten, and in the summer of nineteen fifty nine,
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  Speaker 2: while in Cuba, was working for the Douville Casino and
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  Speaker 2: that was owned by Santos Trafficante. Over the next three years,
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  Speaker 2: Martino made a series of extended trips to the island,
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  Speaker 2: eventually getting imprisoned in the island. He was close a
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  Speaker 2: fellow worker at the casino, the Dauville cause, you know,
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  Speaker 2: was a man named Lewis McWillie, who I think we'll
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  Speaker 2: get into later, a close friend of Jack Ruby. He
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  Speaker 2: was notoriously involved in the Biopoly raid in nineteen sixty two,
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  Speaker 2: which was related to raid going into Cuba to try
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  Speaker 2: to get some defectors out. It wasn't successful, and he
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  Speaker 2: was also I'm sorry, my sliz are all screwed up here.
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  Speaker 2: He was associated with Ted Shackley of JM Wave Rip
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  Speaker 2: Robertson and also David Sanchez Morales. And why did we
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  Speaker 2: think he had pre knowledge? Well, I'm going to read
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: now from someone would have talked by Larry Hancock about
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: John Martine. John Martino had pre knowledge of the plan
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  Speaker 2: to kill John Kennedy in Texas. John Martino talked in
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  Speaker 2: a very believable, incredible fashion. Shortly before his death, he
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  Speaker 2: talked with two longtime friends, part confession and part simply recollection.
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  Speaker 2: He had no grand claims, downplayed his own role and
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  Speaker 2: limited his statements to things he would have personally come
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  Speaker 2: in contact with in playing the role with Cuban exiles,
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  Speaker 2: whose cause he was demonstratably devoted to at the time.
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  Speaker 2: His story is certainly consistent and in context with his
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  Speaker 2: documented activities and personal associations in nineteen sixty three. Martino's
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  Speaker 2: personal involvement also helps us estimate the start date and
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: time frame for the plot. There's a couple bullet points here.
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  Speaker 2: Martino's method of relating is knowledge of the conspiracy is
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  Speaker 2: credible and consistent.
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  Speaker 1: He was.
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  Speaker 2: Imprisoned in Cuba for about forty months, and when he
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: was released, he got right into the anti Castro actptivities
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  Speaker 2: and with inner pen he offered a unique insight into
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the Oswalt role, associations and manipulation and provided tactical details
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  Speaker 2: in Dallas which can be investigated for corroboration. He said
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  Speaker 2: Oswalt was framed as a Castro connected shooter and planned
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: meeting and extraction from Oswalt from Dallas. Martino provides a
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  Speaker 2: unique insight into the conspiracy by anti Castro elements to
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: kill President Kennedy in revenge for his perceived betrayal of
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: the Cuban exile cause and to tie the murder to
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Fidel Castro and Cuba. And that's something rob that's very
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  Speaker 2: consistent among all the Cuban exiles that were really gun
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: ho about taking back Cuba, whether it was you know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: it's for different reasons Martino for the mafia and you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: anti Castro Cubans obviously for their reasons. But he didn't
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: waste much time once he got back from Cuba to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: start getting back in these activities, so that my slides
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: were all messed up. So I apologize. But John Martinez
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: someone I think definitely. He also told his wife famously
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: flow they're going to kill him in Dallas. He told
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: his son to stay home from school that day and
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to let him know if anything happened on television, which
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: of course it did. And very fascinating because he was
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: very trusted in the community and in the anti Castro
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: in mafia community and had CI connections as well.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Yep, very good, Joseph. All right, Now mine is going
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: to be Jack Ruby. And you might say, well, how
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: can you prove that Jack and Ruby had four knowledge
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: of the assassination? Well, are we going to take a
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: look tonight that some of his call records that he made,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: you know, in the six months prior to the assassination,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and who he was calling, Well, he was calling a
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: lot of people, but some of them are a little
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: sus that, if you will, And these folks all had
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: ties to LaCOSA Nostra, and not just one family, not
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: just two families. I mean we got him stretched and
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: stretched around all five families. And so first up, starting
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in May and again in June, we have him calling
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Pete Marcello, which I believe is self explanatory given the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: last name Marcelo. You know, Jack did business in New Orleans.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: It's some of these seedier nightclubs and you know, trading
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: dancers around and things like this. So it's quite conceivable,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you know, given that Carlers Marcelo was also in charge
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: of the Dallas area, that he would have dealings with
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the Marcellos and in the course of his business. Now
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: does that prove anything one way or the other, No,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: but it puts him, you know, one degree away from
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the Marcellos in New Orleans, and then a little later
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: in May, and again in June, he makes ten phone
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: calls to Lewis mcwilly. Now we've talked about Lewis mcwilly
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: on this show before because he has the j Martin alias.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Now Lewis mcwilley. We're not going to go into his
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: whole background again, but he was part of the g
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and Conna family out of Chicago, and you know, did
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of business with Jack Ruby when it comes
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to like gun running to Cuba and things like that,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: some other suspect things. If you want to know more
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: about Louis McWillie, of course, go back and listen to
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the episode the Martin series. Now we go up to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: June and we have Jack Ruby talking to Frank Karacchi
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of the Marcello crime family in New Orleans on June
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: fifth or twenty eight minutes, again on June fourteenth, and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: then in July twice more. And then move up to August.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: We have two calls to Michael Shore, who was a
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: gian Kanna family member. August fourth and October thirtieth, he
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: calls Nofio Pacora of the Marcello crime family. August tenth
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and fifteenth, calls Joe Glazer of the Costello New York
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: crime family. August the second, November eighth, he calls Dusty Miller,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: who is associated with Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamsters, and
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: of course they're you know, you know, they're mop tized.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: October three, he calls Russell Matthews R. D. Matthews, who's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: a member of the Trafficante family. Erwin Wiener on October
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: twenty sixth, a member of the Haffa family. And November
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: seventh and eighth, and this is of course nineteen sixty three, folks,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: he calls Barnie Baker of the Haifa crime family. And
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: November twenty first, the day before the assassination, he calls
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Dave Yaris, who is part of the traffic Conte family.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: November twelfth, he calls Frank Goldstein, who is a coast
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: remember I'm not sure what family though. On the seventeenth,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and then the twenty second, two hours after JFK is shot,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: he calls Al Gruber, his buddy in Chicago, who's a
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: member of the Giancana family. So all this stuff is
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: very very interesting. Now the key dates you need to
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: keep in mind here, folks. April twenty third, it was
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: announced that JFK was going to be visiting Dallas. They
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: did not give a specific excuse me a timeframe yet,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: but I believe they said, you know, in the fall.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: So on April twenty third, it's the news is out.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: JFK is coming to Dallas. So mid May, Ruby travels
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: to New Orleans. June fifth, JFK, LBJ and Conley confirmed
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: their trip to Dallas. Also on June fifth, Ruby places
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: a twenty eight minute call to Karachi. August fifth, Ruby
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: travels to New and then Chicago October November. Grooby meets
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Johnny Verselli in Miami October first of the fifteenth. Ruby
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: travels again to New Orleans in mid November. Al Gruber, Okay,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the guy he called two hours after JFK is shot
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: visits Ruby in Dallas in mid November. So who are
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: these folks? So Barnie Baker, of course, the close associate
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: of Jimmy Hoffa function on the team, stars as a
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: versatile labor goon, or, as Robert Kennedy phrased it, one
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: of Haffa's roving emissaries of violence. The FBI identified him
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: as a reported muscle and bag man for Teamster's president
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Hoffa, and the HSCA described him as a hoodlum
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: with organized crime and Teamster connections. Baker maintained close and
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: frequent contacts with notorious mobsters throughout the country. The name Barney,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: with three of Baker's phone numbers, was found in Ruby's notebooks.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Folks Frank Karacchi was identified in the nineteen seventy Judiciary
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Committee hearing as a Coastra Nostra involved gambler and strip
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: joint operator. Life magazine described him as a Marcelo mobster,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and The Wall Tree Journal reported that he was closely
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: affiliated with the Carlos Marcello crime family in New Orleans.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Joseph Glazer syndicate connections were confirmed in a New York
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Times series when Los Angeles attorney and mobster Sidney Corshak
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: describing Corshack as the most important link between the organized
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: crime and big business. The Times related that senior Justice
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Department officials ranked him among the most powerful members of
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: the underworld. Glazier's underworld clout was suggested by one incident
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in sixty one in which Jimmy Hoffe was displaced from
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the best suite in Laves, Vegas to to accommodate Glazer.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: So this guy was a bigger swinging dick than Jimmy Haffa.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: On August the fifth, nineteen sixty three, Jack Ruby visited
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Joe Glazer in New York City. He would go on
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: to replace two calls to Glazier ten days later. R. D.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Matthews described in one FBI report as a burglar, armed robber,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: narcotics pusher, and murderer. He worked for mob controlled Santa
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Trafficante Cuban casinos in the late fifties and turned to
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Dallas underworld pursuits in the sixties. The Dallas Morning News
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: reported that Matthews was arrested more than fifty times by
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Dallas area law authorities, but served time in prison once
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: two years on a federal and narcotics violation, and January
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: of seventy four, Matthews was subpoenaed by a federal grand
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: jury in Houston concerning a reported contract to kill in
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: form and it's a corruption in the Houston Police Narcotics Division.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Interesting Murray Dusty Miller was the head of the Southern
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Conference of Teamsters in sixty three and later became secretary
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: treasurer of the Teamsters International, the House Associate. The House
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Assassinations Committee reported that Miller was quote associated with numerous
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Underworld figures unquote. November eighty sixty three, Ruby called Miller
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: person a person at the Eden Rock Hotel in Miami.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Irwin Wiener nod Jokes now people, a Chicago bail bondsman
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: with no felony record, was also one of the mobs
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: leading frontmen in Chicago, thought to be the Underworld's major
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: financial figure in the Midwest. A comprehensive list of his associates,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the House Assassinations Committee noted would include a significant number
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: of major organized crime figures in the United States, among
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: them Jimmy Hoffa, Santa trafficante, and Sam g and Kanna.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Like many of Ruby's other Mob contacts, and like Ruby himself,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Wiener had been involved in the Mobs Cuban operations. Wiener
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: was also active in the Teamsters, as demonstrated by his
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: frequent mention in FBI files with Jimmy Hoffa and Union
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: big wig Allen the Dwarf Dorfmann. Wiener was with Dorfman
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: when Dorfman was shot to death in a nineteen eighty
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: three gang land style execution in Chicago. Dave Yaris was
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: included in a US Senate list of Chicago Mafia non
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: member associates characterized by an activity code indicating extortion, mayhem,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and murder. Arrested fourteen times, rus Is described in Captive
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: City as a prime suspect in several gang lands slings.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: One of more than a score of top rated exterminators
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: who worked strictly on contracts for the Board of Directors,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Juris was one of a group of mobsters monitored by
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the FBI Bug in sixty two while planning a murder
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: contract in Miami and discussing previous killings. The Bug provided
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: grizzly transcripts detailing mob executions later published by Life magazine
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and saved the life of the intended victim. Yars served
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: as a go between for Carlos Marcelo and Santa Trafficante,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and was also a good friend of Jimmy Hoffa. Like Marcello, Trafficante, Haifa,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and Ruby, Yaris had engaged in mob operations while in Cuba,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and the House Assassination Committee reported that URIs has served
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: it is alleged as a key lieutenant of Chicago mafia
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: leader Sam g and Kana Yaris told the FBI that
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: he knew Ruby for about fifteen years when he was
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: in Chicago, and related enough details about Ruby's habits and
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: perersonality to indicate more than a remote acquaintance. Although yours
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: had no recorded contacts with Ruby in sixty three, a
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: curious indirect link brings us full circle among Ruby's associates.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: November seventh and eighth, nineteen sixty three, Jack Ruby exchanged
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: calls with teamster thug Barney Baker. Two weeks later, on
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: November twenty first, at six seventeen pm, the night before
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the assassination, a three minute call was placed from the
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: home phone of Baker in Chicago to a Dave in Miami.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: The Dave who called person to person by Baker as
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: identified to telephone records and it was Ruby's old friend
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: syndicate killer Dave Yars. Frank Goldstein and San Francisco confirmed
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: a ten minute call person to person placed by Ruby
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: on November twelfth, and Goldstein describes himself as a quote
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: professional gambler. So I think see you forgot anybody else? Oh? Yes,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Johnny ROSSELLI can't forget old Hansome. Johnny Ruby is reported
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to have met with Johnny Rosselli, sam g and Conna's
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: man in Los Angeles and Las Vegas, at two small
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: hotels in Miami sometime in October sixty three. It was
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: during the same period that Ruby again traveled to New Orleans.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Between October first and the fifteenth, Roselli mafia hitman graduated
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: to a top mafioso operative with sam g and Conna's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: right hand man and the plans of the CIA to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: assassinate Fidel Castro. Roselli was closely linked to Santo traffic Conte.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: He became a close friend and drinking buddy with William
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Bill Harvey, the man in charge of z R Rifle,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: the CI program to assassinate foreign leaders. Roselli had met
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: with Harvey at his home in DC and June of
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: sixty three years later, Rosselli would start talking and reveal
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the communist Communists columnists Jack Anderson that Ruby was one
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: of our boys and had been ordered to kill Oswald.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: That's coming from the lips of Johnny Roselli. Shortly after
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: testifying to the Senate's Church Committee, Rosselli was murdered in
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: late summer seventy six. His body was found cut into
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: pieces and stuffed in an oil drome that floated to
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the surface in a Florida inter Coastal waterway. So, yeah,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: he met not too good a conclusion there and the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: bad time and to get murdered. Yeah, you know when
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the AHSC is just getting ready to crank up and
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: they think you just snitched on him to the Church Committee.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, Rob, I was reading something recently about
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: that and I can't remember where. But so he was
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: called initially right and did a whole shoal a interview
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: with the HSCA. But apparently they were asking him all
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: these questions about the Castro assassination plus and all these things,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: and they realized after he was done that they didn't
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: ask him anything about JFK. So then he was invited
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: back a second time.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: And that's that's true.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: He got killed before that.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: He was killed in seventy six summer. He testified to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the Senate Church Committee it could have been that, it
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: could have been that, but yeah, I don't know, I
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you, John as always coming in clutch and perpetual concepts,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you as well. This super child is a certain
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: like Felipe Vidal Santiago on Martino's sofa, chilling boom yep,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: that is. And Philip didn't, I think, died within a
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: few months after that in sixty four into Cuba. And
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: thank you again Professional Concepts and Jahn.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And of course we can talking about Marcelo and
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the crime family, the mafia in New Orleans. You can't
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: do that without mentioning David Ferry. Unfortunately, of course he
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: worked for g Ray Gill, who represented Carlos Marcelo, so
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you know, he's like two degrees of separation from this guy.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Apparently they had a meeting as well, so so the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: story goes. He had a reputation for being a scheme
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: and a plotter, very intelligent man, conflist pilot, who's sometimes
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: known as the professor or the master of intrigue, if
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: you will, by his associates in the anti Castro movement.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Ferry had strong organizational abilities. He organized the New Orleans
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Civil Air Patrol into a highly respected unit. He liked Marcelo,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: had an ability to influence others to do his bidding.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Fairry practiced hypnosis. He had an extensive library on hypnosis
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: in his apartment and there was some indication of his
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: involvement in MK Altar as well, and both Ferry and
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Marcello will right ring a right wing extremists and militant
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: segregationists both worked hard on behalf of the Cuban exiles.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Adding to the suspicion that Ferry and Marcello's dual activities
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: connect them directly to the plot in Dallas is a
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: meeting between Ferry and Marcelo at Churchhill Farms that's Marcello's
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: six thousand acre estate in the Louisiana by on the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: weekend of November ninth and tenth, and then again the
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: weekend November sixteenth and seventeenth. Now, what they were doing
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: in the last two weekends before President Kennedy, who was murdered,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: we don't know. Was it at these meetings that an
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: evil crime boss and his diabolical professor pulled the strings
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: as a JFK assassination or was there a higher cabal
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: working with Marcello and Fairley where they were merely players
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: in the scheme. And of course that runs into David
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: ferries weird activities after the assassination. Now on November twenty second,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: at the very moment that Kennedy was being assassinated. David
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Ferry was actually in a courtroom. They were trying to
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: deport Carlos Marcello Robert Kennedy's Department of Justice, and Marcelo
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: won the case. President's trial was David Ferry.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: The morning of the twenty second I believe right, yeah,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: which gave them a nice alibi. By the way, but
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: David Ferry wasn't long for New Orleans. No, no.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: He grabbed up to his boy toys and headed for Houston, Texas,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: allegedly driving through a thunderstorm for some reason and arriving
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: in Houston at four am on remember twenty third, to
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: go ice skating or goose hunting, or whatever sexual in
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: the window you want to insert here pun intended. Ferry
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: later said that the reason for the trip was to
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: go ice skating with his young companions. But before Ferry
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: had and his and his companions left New Orleans, Ferry
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: placed the telephone call to a motel in Houston there
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: was owned by Carlos Marcelo and made a reservation for
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the night. After that, he telephoned the owner of the
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: winter Land skating rink in Houston and asked about the
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: skating schedule. Sometime during the afternoon of the next day, Saturday,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: November twenty third, Ferry placed a collect call to the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Town and Country Motel in New Orleans, Carlos Marcelo's headquarters, folks.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: But while in Houston, Fairy and his companions never got
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: around ice skating. Instead, they took off for Galveston, Texas,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: and then drove one hundred miles. Alright, I'm sorry, it
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: was one hundred miles to Galveston. Arrived there at ten
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: pm on November twenty third. They happened to arrive just
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: before Jack Ruby's friend from Dallas, Breck Wall, arrived there.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like there's some Shenanigans on foot, Joe Shenanigans.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Shocker as they say.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Now, yeh see, what would the purposes of communicating with
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby be? Well, first, there's a logical assumption that
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: somebody must have accompanied or communicated with Ruby or ordering
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: him to eliminate Oswald. We know this. He was obviously
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: stalking him all the week in he waited until the
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: last possible second to kill him.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, uh, I think something went wrong.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Rob Oswald wasn't going to be taken alive.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, taken out as a problem.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Whether he was going to get taken out at the
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Texas Theater, whether like Martino says, he was going to
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: get exfiltrated, maybe to Cuba. Uh so they could then
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: blame it on Cuba, because I do my working theory
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: is the point. The goal of the plotters was to
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: prompt an invasion of Cuba, that is my working theory.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: And something went wrong. And when mafia figures delegate a
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: certain task and you guys, you know this is not
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: my idea. This is from the one of my favorite
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Quick Hits episodes when they delegate something and Ruby was
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: supposed to take care of it and it goes wrong.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Who does it fall on? It falls on the person
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: it was delegated to. Ruby. Crayford bounced and that's why
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Ruby had to wait till last second to take out Oswald,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: because you know he was dealing with either you know,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Marcello was the boss of obviously New Orleans, but his
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: territory also covered Dallas, right, you know. And there are
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: a bunch of other mafia figures that you mentioned that
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: are involved. And I actually want to highlight this comment.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Let's see who was from grunge truck who was higher
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: than sam Gy and Kanna in relation to the families. Well,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was a national hierarchy. I think
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: all mob bosses say, you have Marcelo, Truvacante, g and Kanna,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the people in New York, the Columbos or whoever was
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: in power. Then right, you have the commission. Right, everyone's
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: kind of works together, and.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: You also have a code right work, you know, so
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: they're all basically on the same level, right, you know,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: there is no one overarching godfather for everybody, you know, Right.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe Lucky Luciano like back in the day, but after that,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: not really. And to your point, Rob, I think I
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: think Ruby, he uh, you know, had a certain task.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: He obviously had a lot of contacts within the DPD
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: based on his his club businesses, right, so we had
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: certain access. He would know which officers could play ball
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: in a certain sense. And he definitely waited till the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: last second, that is for sure, yep.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And then Uncle Dave says, what's up, Uncle Dave Noviio Pricora,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the Nola go between from Marcelo and Ruby. Yes, very
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: very true. So to your point, Joe, I think that's
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: where precipitated this weird Dave Ferry trip to Texas, okay,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: because something went wrong and then all this weird stuff
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: that's going on is them trying to figure out what's
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: going on, What's what's what's the you know, what's the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: instruction type of thing? What do we do now? We
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: know what we're supposed to do, but what do we
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: do now? Then everything's all screwed up because Oswald was
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: captured alive in Dallas.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: And that's very interesting, Rob because what Oswald was captured
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: at what around like one thirty ish? Yeah, and I
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: think David Ferry waited until later in the afternoon to
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: leave for that trip. I've never considered that possibility of
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: him being dispatched in a sense. I always kind of
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: assumed that if they needed, say a pilot to get
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: him out at like something like Redbird Airport or whatever,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: because that.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Was the case, you would think he would fly there
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and not drive with these two Jaburni's good point.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Good point. So, yeah, it could have been very very
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: like off the cuff, like last second backup plan cent Ferion,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: which I don't know if that'd be the backup plan
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I'd send in if that was more solo, but he
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: did trust.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Him so and after Osah being captured, necessitating an urgent
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: need to communicate with Jack Ruby in a manner that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: would be difficult to trace. What would be the purposes
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: of communicating with Jack Ruby well, First is a logical
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: assumption that somebody must have communicated with Ruby and ordered
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: him to eliminate Oswald or have someone eliminate Oswald. This
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: could readily have been done through his buddy brick Wall.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: A second possibility is that, after a suitable delay, Ferry's
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: mission would be to meet with some of the conspirators
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: in an airport in southern Texas and fly them to Mexico.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Very and finally, the trip may have been to accomplish
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: both purposes, the first purpose being hastily added on when
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Ogall was a live, thus accelerating Fairi's departure from New
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Orleans on that stormy night. Evidence the Fairies mission to
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Houston and Galveston was to flight a getaway plane was
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: reinforced by Dick Russell when he paid a nineteen seventy
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: five visit to gay activist Raymond Brouschers, who had been
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: in a roommate of Dave Ferry.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Oh Man and a Garrison witness as well, Hellodia, mister Garrison.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Almus Gaston Russell met with Brosher's in San Francisco for
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: an interview in which Brouschers said that Faerry.
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: Had told him and I quote, David was to meet
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: a plane. He was going to fly these people on
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: to Mexico and eventually to South Africa because they didn't
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: have no extradition treaty in South Africa with the United States.
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: They had left from some little airfield between Dallas and
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: Fort Worth, and David had a twin ech and plane
• 45:57
  Speaker 6: ready for him, and that was the purpose of his
• 45:59
  Speaker 6: man Dad used to driving rainstorm from New Orleans. But
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: the plane crashed off the coast of Texas near Corpus Christie.
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: That was what Dave was told in the telephone booth
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: that day. Apparently they decided to try to make it
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: to Mexico on.
• 46:13
  Speaker 7: Her own, but didn't quite make it, didn't quote Lavender Panther,
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: Oh boy, old boy, old boy.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: A bunch of a bunch of screwy going on here.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: And I highlighted this while you were talking, Rob. But
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: mister Dave Sparks said, very left New Orleans in the evening.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I was a little off.
• 46:43
  Speaker 8: I said, we had to get his ship together, he
• 46:45
  Speaker 8: had to get his a little but buddy together and
• 46:48
  Speaker 8: figure out what he was doing. Yeah, because I think
• 46:55
  Speaker 8: he was.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the mars other trial was actually
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: in New Orleans. Could be wrong.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I believe it was with the one that he got
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: acquitted from on the second, Yeah, because I think that's
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: where they're kind of alibi on the nearby parish e
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Streeport or something or like. Yeah, all these parishes had
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: their own like Well.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think Marcella lived in Like Orleans parish. I
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: think he lived out a little outside. I don't know.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I could be wrong.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: My understanding is it's New Orleans, or if not, the
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: city of New Orleans very close after around there. But
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: my understanding was New Orleans. But maybe we'll confirm that.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: But it was a nice alibi as well, right in
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: a sense, although well for to start the day close
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: to the assassination, right, they weren't involved in the assassination.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, Chris private Hudson, What what's up with this?
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: I see this a lot.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just gonna go with it.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's uh, I don't know what.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but he's a new listener, so we
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: like him. Yes, we brought him over from the dark
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: side like Trey. Yeah, all right, So you know, you
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: got all these mafia associated people talking to Jack Ruby.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's insane. So when you look at
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: what these mafia related people said, like, for instance, allegedly,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: of course there was a mob lawyer. Uh it was
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: it Joe Organo. I think. Yeah. When Santo's traffic Conte
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: was dying, I guess, he called Bragano to his side
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in Tampa, Florida, and they had a long series of
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: conversations during which traffic Conte voiced his indignation over the
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Kennedys and their intrusions on his business in personal life.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: As the conversation proceeded, Regano was stunned when traffic Conte
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: brought up the subject of the JFK assassination. The dying
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: trafficante said he believed a mistake he had been made,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: and he blamed it on Marcelo Carlos fucked up. He
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: confided to Ragano, we shouldn't have killed Giovanni, we should
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: have killed Bobby Giovanni is Italian for John and was
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: apparently the mafia's code name for John Kennedy now.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Blake Frank Ragano, not Joe Frank.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Yes. Blakey from The Agenca wrote that he thoroughly investigated
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Bragano's statements, and all things considered, we believe Regano was
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: telling the truth as best he remembers it. This confession
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: added to Sam g and Connin's confession, So let's see
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: what he says tends to confront on my feeling that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: the enormity of the crime of assassinating a beloved president
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: of the United States must have weighed heavily on the conspirators,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: even though they were gangsters and killers beforehand. But Regano
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: wrote in his autobiography Mob Lawyer, that he thinks that
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: traffic Conte showed no remorse or guilt in his confession.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Regano wrote, with his warped sense of historical judgment, Santo
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: was probably searching for a way to let the world
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: know that Kennedy's death had been masterminded by the mafia
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: with his help. Throughout his adult life, Santo was an
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: incessant reader of biographies and an amateur student of history.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I remember his indignation when he had been compelled to
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: lie before the HSCA and distorted the circumstances of the
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: mafia sham alliance with the CIA to Kilcastro. Another reason
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I believe he confessed to me was his perverse pride
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: and that he and his mob partners have eliminated a
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: sitting president. Mm hmm. So not only did Santa Trafficante
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: confess Sam g and Kanna allegedly confessed to of course
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: his brother Chuck Giancanna about his involvement in the Kennedy assassination.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And not only that, we also have Carlos Marcello on
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: a hidden recording in his jail cell confessed to being
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: involved in the Kennedy assassination. This is three big time
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: heads of the mafia and admitted to their involvement. And Rob.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: You also have that Santo of that Santa that Lauren
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Hall call when he said there's only two of us left,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: me and Santo and we're not going to say ship.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So that's look to that audio of that
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: phone call. Please, folks, help you brother out all that.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I listened to it recently.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Somebody get to aj Weberman, tell him we need that audio.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Where's Doug when we need him?
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Talk to.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: No in terms of Lauren Hall.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, he doesn't have the audio either. I've asked him
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: so to recap things about all this interesting stuff. Ruby
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: was closely associated with organized crime at the time of
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: the assassination, as evidenced by a large number of suspicious
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: phone calls and meetings with mafia hitman, greatly accelerated during
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: the months and days preceding the assassination and continuing during
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the days following. Ruby shot Oswald deliberately, not out of emotion,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: as evidenced by his own handwritten confession to Joe Tannahill,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: and the improbability of being able to shoot Oswald when
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: surrounded by the Dallas Police unless the shooting was planned
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: in some detail with their cooperation. The Dallas Police had
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: extensive connections with Ruby beforehand. Johnny Vercelli told Jack Anderson
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: that Ruby was one of our boys that had been
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: ordered to kill Oswald. When after Ruby shot Oswald and
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: was taken up to the fifth floor to be processed,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: one one of the Dallas policemen asked Jack why he
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: did this, and he's His response was because you wouldn't.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Ruby was connected to New Orleans boss College Marcello. Through
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Marcello's associates in New Orleans and Dallas. Oswald was connected
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: to Carlos Marcelo through his uncle dut Marette and through
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: David Ferry. David Ferry worked for Carlos Marcelo as a
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: pilot and consultant, and he also worked for Marcello's lawyer,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: g Ray Gill. Oswald, David Ferry, and clay Shaw were
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: seen together in eineteen sixty three, in Clinton and Jackson, Louisiana,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: and at various other locations. Oswald was connected to Dave
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Ferry years previously through the Civil Air Patrol and was
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: seen with David Ferry by numerous witnesses around New Orleans
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: in the summer of sixty three. There are photographs of
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: them together. Clay Shaw was the CIA contract agent, and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: he was also on the board of directors of perm Indecks,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: a white ring wing extremist organization allegedly a CI CIA
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: company abroad. Money was passed to Oswald by a Marcelo
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: lieutenant in early sixty three, at about the time the
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Kennedy's plan to go to Dallas was paid public Allegedly,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Marcelo at high level connections with the CIA, Clinton Murchison,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Bobby Baker, and Lyndon Johnson. Marcello was directly involved with
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: the CIA along with Trafficante, and they plot to assassinate
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Fidel Castro. Dave Ferry was associated with XBI ex FBI
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: agent Gud Banister, whose office was a the same address
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: as the fair Play for Cuba committee that consisted of
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: one person Oswald. Colors Marcelo had threatened Kennedy's assassination in
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: sixty two and described how it would be done, mirroring
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: the way it actually happened. Dave Ferry made a trip
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: to Houston on the night of the assassination. While in Houston,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Ferry made a telephone called Marcella's Town and Country Motel
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: in New Orleans, whereby he could have been given a
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: final message to relate to Ruby to eliminate Oswald. There
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: was a teletype concerning Colors Marcelo while he was in
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: prison in Texas in nineteen eighty three for conspiracy to
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: bribe a judge. This is what it says. R E.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Minneapolis teletype to the director in Dallas dated three three
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: eighty nine for information in New Orleans and WMFO This
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: matter has been reopened because Roles Marcello, white male dated
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: birth two six ' ten, social security number blah blah
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, has made comments on two twenty eight
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: eighty nine to two prison guards in Texas who he
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: mistook for his own bodyguards, while apparently in a senile condition,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: and while confused as to win and where he was,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: indicating that he had just driven back directly from New
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: York to New Orleans after a meeting with Provenzo as
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Tony pro for you folks out there in the no
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: and they were going to get Kennedy in Dallas, full
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Texas in Dallas teletype dated three three eight nine entitled
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Carlos Marcelo, of which New Orleans and WMFO did not
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: receive a copy. Marcelo has been transferred to the Bureau
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: of Prison Medical Center in Rochester, Minnesota. Minneapolis is monitoring
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Marcello's apparent mental condition through contacts by Lieutenant Dale Stephens
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: on the Bureau of Prisons. Marcello was described as mentally
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: as sharp as attack on March seventh, nineteen eighty nine.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: So Tony pro was was the international vice president of
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: the Teamsters and a captain in the Genovese Mafia family.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's in The Irishman to Rob.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: It might be he was.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I think he was that character that got in a
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: fight with al Pacino, who was Jimmy Hoffa when they
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: were he was.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Late and he was like the guy who killed half
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: in the movie. Right, Tony pro thanks not the alert.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: I think it was. I think it was.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: The Irishman, the Nero character that in the show.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: That did it.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: The movie. Yeah, it's a it's a long movie. But uh,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Trey said it was the US Federal Courthouse in nolansand
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: so and uh and then turn Horse said he thinks
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: he has the Lauren Hall recording. I said, the long
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: podcast at gmail dot com. Please, we'll play it right now.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: So keep an eye out for that.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Rob.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: And yeah, this was another one. Marcelli chirping to the HSCA.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Then going golfing in Florida was essentially assistant suicide.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: True facts. Yeah, So apparently what we have here the
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: mudding mutterings of a senile, aging mobster, perhaps playing out
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: a flashback of his previous experience. After he had met
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: with Hapas Prevenzano to plan the Kennedy assassination. This adds
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: an ironic touch to the Marcellar's story. This story becomes
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: even more interesting when we discovered that Tony Pearl was
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: the one who had a five hundred thousand dollars delivered
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: to Richard Nixon in exchange for favors to the Teamsters
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: union president Frank Fitzimmons to help Nixon in the Watergate
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: affair when he had an urgent need for a million
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: dollars of hushman need to bribe an x CIA officer
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: named E. Howard Hunt. The story becomes even more fascinating
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: when we realized that Tony pro has been linked as
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: a prime suspect in the disappearance of Tommy Hafa. So
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: maybe I was right, Joe.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe I was just saying what I think Steve Hollywood
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: isn't always the truth.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Hey, Hey, easy, easy, all right, Joe. That's all I
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: got on the mobsters and Jack Ruby's connections. And you know,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: if he if he's an even remotely part of planning
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: any of this assassination business, you know, you would think
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: that some of these people would be in touch with
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Jack about things. Since Jack is in Dallas and they
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: know Kennedy is going to Dallas, and you know Jack
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: was the one left holding the bag to eliminate Oswald
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day because he felt like
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: he had to.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: I'm sure.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: So, you know, some of these things are just, yeah,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: you know, an unfortunate series of events and connections sometimes
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: are undeniable.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: I agree, and I don't think anyone objectively can sit
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: here and say Jack Ruby didn't have Monk Mob connections.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: You know, we've I know, in our and other episodes
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: we've gone back to some of his Dallas connections. And
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: then you talk about the Campeases and them being allegedly
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: one of the first people to visit him once he
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: was incarcerated after shooting Lee. You have obviously a ton
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: of calls back to Chicago. You have his association with
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: mcwilly and even going to Cuba with mcwilly and I
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: believe in nineteen sixty two, and we covered this in
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I believe the Cuban prison episode we did a few
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: months ago, and it's he was he was a trusted
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: source in a sense and if he if he had
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: a certain task to do, I think he would have
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: been trusted to do so, and.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: It's or expected to do so.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, ordered to do so, ordered to do so, he
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: had a task. It didn't necessarily go right, so he
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: then had to go to the extreme, which was essentially
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: a suicide mission, right, shooting Oswalt on live TV in
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: the basement of the DPD. It's a suicide mission.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Remember Crayford bounced.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: There alive, You're not And I think that's why he
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: was kind of freaking out and uh, trying to do
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: everything he could to not go on the suicide mission.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: But at the end, at the end of the day,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think he particularly had a choice.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: And m uh, you guys are giving too much credit
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: to the mafia. You need to recognize me, James Jesus
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Angleton as a real mastermind on apply. Who else could
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: lower a threat level for La Joe. Well, yeah, I mean,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: we're not saying that the mafia is to be all
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: into all this whole assassination business in any way, shape
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: or form, But they did have legitimate beef with the
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Kennedy's thanks to Bobby and what he was doing, So
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: you know, they were definitely pissed. They were they were
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: mad about that, they were mad about Cuba getting kicked
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: out of Cuba. Their casinos their money makers. Yeah, and
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: when you never.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: When you think about the combined interests of Cuba, right
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: with the anti Castro Cubans wanting to aust Castro, with
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: the c i A wanting to get rid of the
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: communist threat. Uh, not only a few miles off our shore,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: and the mafia with their casinos. And I'm glad he
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: made that comment because.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Or well, he was working with the c i A
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: or I mean he was working with the mafia Jesus right.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: What what I want to say is, I don't think
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: the mafia like uh. I think they had a role
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: in financing and in maybe and I'm not saying when
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: I say the mafia, I say maybe a figure too
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: in the mafia how to rule with financing. The anti
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Casher Cubans did not have a lot of money. They
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: were always looking for funding. They were asking General Walker
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: for funding.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Like the mafia is an entity. I don't think that
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: they would be successful, susceptible to murdering the President of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: the United States for money.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: It's a human It's all about business to them, right.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: But I think it's more like the CIA, because they
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: were working with the CIA or certain CIA operatives and
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: they had a bug put in their air, Like, wouldn't
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: it be good to just get rid of the problem
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: type of thing, you know what I mean. And of
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: course the CIA wouldn't want to do it themselves, and
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: of course the mafia wouldn't want to do it themselves.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: So what's next?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: One degree of separation type of thing.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: You hire some operatives to do the job that you
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: know that they would do it, and they could either
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: be eliminating quickly after or trusted to shut their mouths
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: and never speak of this, you know. So yeah, very interesting.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And to Paula James's comment right here, I think
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: the tiny dnswer I doubt Ruby was a made man.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're saying that. I think Ruby was.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, just based on the lacost and no Strang rules,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: he could never be a made man because he didn't
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: have a one hundred percent Italian blood, right, so you
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: can't be a made man. You could be in the
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Jewish mafia or an associate under like Meyer, Lanski and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: and other people like that, and have associations with everyone,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: going back to your your roots in Chicago and your
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: current connections with possibly the Marcelo organization and the Campezies.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're saying he was a made man,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: but I think he was trusted enough to take care
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: of a certain aspect.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Of And if we can make the mafia mhm. By
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: doing whatever he's doing there with his with his UH
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: clubs and his girls and god knows what else.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: You're paying, you're pain a vige to Marcelo and the Campezes.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Probably, yeah, but just because he was Jewish, they would
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: have still done business with him, right.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Right and associate. He wouldn't have been like a mad
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: man type of thing.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: And he may not have even let them totally in
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: on because you know, he did change his name from
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Jacob Rubinstein to Jack Ruby mhm. You know, and so
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: unless he was like outwardly, hey I'm Jewish, you know,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: they may not have even known or cared.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Oh I think they knew. I don't think that. I
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: think they would have.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Of course, they would know him in Chicago as Jacob Rubinstein.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: But you know, you kind of figured it back then,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: you know, how good was all this communication that would
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: get around to Marcelo or Traffick Conte that Jack he's
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: really Jewish? Years ago?
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've had the guy that wrote the Ruby book.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: I'm blanking on his name as a guest. Yes, earlier
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: this year, and we talked about h and he gave,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of good information on how Ruby
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: had a very He was very aware of the anti Semitism, right,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: which might have been well, yeah, but that's when like
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: he when he was dosed, right, and he was like,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: you know, they're coming after us whatever. But I think
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: that was obviously he changed it before. I don't know
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: when he changed his name. I think it was, if
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I had to guess, probably a couple of years before
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: the assessinate.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: It was like the late forties.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's before as he moved to Dallas before. Yeah,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: but he always had My point is he had this
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: in his head of not wanting here.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: That's what I was trying to say, Joe, Dave says
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: it all. He was a mob associated and an earner.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: He didn't need to be made beautiful.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, the mob only you know, they care they
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: make you if you make them money. They don't really
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: care about your background. In a sense, you can never
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: be made, but you will be an associate one.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: All right, Joe, you're ready to hear about another j
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Martin that I found.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, But before you do that, I had one thing
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: I wanted because I I closed out the tab when
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: I was reading the Martino thing in the beginning, and
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I was getting an echo and it totally messed me
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: up because I was like hearing myself as I talked.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: But I just wanted to say something I.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Want to reay.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: This. Read this little part from Anthony Summers Conspiracy, and
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: this is from Martino's conversation with Fred Clayson, a Texas businessman,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: and this is what he told him. The anti Castro
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: people put Oswalt together. Oswalt didn't know who he was
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: working for. He was just ignorant of who was really
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: putting him together. Oswalt was to meet his contact at
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: the Texas Theater in Quotations, the movie house where Oswalt
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: was arrested. They were to meet Oswalt in the theater
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: and get him out of the country, then eliminate him.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: And of course that would have prompted the he was
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: a Castro agent type of thing. Oswald made a mistake.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: There was no way we could get to him. This
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: is Martino talking. They had Ruby kill him. So that
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: was something I want to read and I foolishly skipped
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: over it.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: So but that ties into the day.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: That ties in with a lot of what we were
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: talking about. Who are who are the they?
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: They were to meet Oswalt in the theater. Uh, that's
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: a great question. I mean Martine that doesn't doesn't name names.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: He is very careful of that, even even in Bloody Treason, Right,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: you can kind of tell when he kind of goes
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: off script and kind of catches himself a little bit
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: and reins himself back in then with no twime in
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: and very interesting. Seems like the DPD wanted Ruby to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: kill Oswalt as much as the mafia did. Yeah, it's
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: I think the DPD wanted to not have to deal
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: with with Oswalt.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: And so from John Martin, No, we go to another J.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Martin and friends.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And you're leaving me hanging about this. You
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: tease me.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I purposely did not tell you about this because
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted your legit reaction on the air.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: All right, Here we go another J Martin associated with Ruby?
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Is that true?
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And this guy was supposedly a witness to the assassination.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: And we missed him, Joe, we missed him.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I can't Well, there are a ton of them, but uh,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear this.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this one, This one was a good one and
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: we missed it. April fifteenth, nineteen sixty eight. I have
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: a FBI airtill too. These special waging in charge of
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Dallas from Jajehovah Okay concerning the assassination of President John FITZJERL.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Kennedy and close free recipent is one xerox copy of
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Lake's identification record. Dallas furnish observations on Lake's story, together
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: with recommendations LHM is being disseminated to the Department of
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: Justice for its information enclosures for Cleveland office and Los
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Angeles office. Note Donald Herbert Lake presently imprisoned in a
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: county jail cell in Toledo, Ohio. Joe asked to see
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: an FBI agent on April fifth, nineteen sixty eight. Now
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: you made me asking yourself, why would Donald Lake being
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: imprisoned in a county jail cell, I want to see
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: an FBI agent.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was thinking, no joke.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: On April fifteenth or April fifth and nineteen sixty eight.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: Now Lake had been in jail since December twenty fifth,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: that's Christmas Day of nineteen and sixty seven, on a
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: charge of molesting a minor and contributing to the delinquency
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: of a minor. Okay, And this poor bastard got arrested
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: on Christmas Day, or evil bastard if that was his
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: Christmas present to a minor. You see what I'm getting that, okay.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: He stated that he was in Dallas, Texas on November twenty,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, and in the vicinity of the assassination
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: when it occurred that day. He tells the story of
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: looking through a pair of binoculars at Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: sitting up on the sixth floor of the school Book
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Depository building when he fired two shots. He had borrowed
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: the binoculars from a man standing next to him on
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: the street. Subsequently, he saw Oswald leave the school Book
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: Depository building and take a taxicab from the area. Lake
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: stated he never told anyone about what he'd seen, not
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: even his wife. He said he did this because he
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: was at the time a probation violator from Los Angeles
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: and did not want to disclose his whereabouts to the authorities.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: I'd say that's a pretty good reason to not say
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: anything to the authorities, don't you know, if you if
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: you're wanted for a violation of parole.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like a Eugene Brayden type thing.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is the worst kind of
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: witness you could ever want. A child, you know, a
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: child molester, you know. But in jail currently sometimes these
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: people see things too and just to disc out them
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: because of something awful that they had done. I think
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: you got to hear him out now. Of course, this
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: could totally be an oswald As type of ploy.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: James Files type, yeah.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: To buy his way out of a jail cell in Toledo,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: Ohio by claiming that he had seen something. But but
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: there's no deal made here, folks. There's no deal like saying, hey,
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: we're gonna let you out if you tell us what
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: you know. This guy is just offering his story up.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: He's not he's not asking for a sentence reduction, he's
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: not asking to be released. He is just giving eyewitness
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: testimony because for some reason, here we are, you know,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: three or four years after the assassination, and he feels
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: compelled to tell the FBI what he saw that day
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: for whatever reason.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but rob uh you mentioned he said he saw
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: Oswald into a taxi. Yeah, that that makes me think. Okay,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: so obviously that was like what like Whalen's taxi or something, right,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: that's like the official Wark Commission thing. He gave up,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: he got on the boss GoF the boss left, uh,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: went to the taxis dan let some women get in
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: the taxi before him, then got into I think Whalen's
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: William Whaleams it could be Wally Whaley, yes, uh taxi
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: and then got dropped off of a few blocks off
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: after Beckley the roomy house. But my question is it's
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: interesting he mentions the taxi thing because did they send
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: the War Commission volumes to the prison? Did he read
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: it before? How did.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: We'll get to his wrap sheet here in a minute too,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: and we'll figure out exactly when he was in jail
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: and when.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: He was Okay, I just want to Yeah, I just
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: that just stuck out to me. Continue, sir.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he said he did this because at the time
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: he's approbation round later. Yeah, okay, we did that. Lake
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: said he had read considerably regarding the assassination. I guess
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: while he was in jail. A captain from the Detective
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Bureau in Toledo, Ohio, advised that Lake is a sex
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: deviate and quote jail wise. According to the Captain, Lake
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: would say anything in an attempt to help himself out
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: of prison. Lake's story included the statement that before Oswald
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: fired the first shot, a second white male made an
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: appearance at the window from which Oswald fired. Lake gave
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: me a sketch description of this man. Lake's story is
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: inconsistent with the accounts furnished by other eyewitnesses, particularly Howard Brennan's,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: as to the actual shooting. His story that Oswald took
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: a taxi from the building. I don't think he actually
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: said he saw him take one from the building, but
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: it is possible because a lot of people think that
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: the whole bus story is horseshit, right, Okay, Yeah, and
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: we know they.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: They really kind of honed in on Brennan's testimony, right
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: because I kind.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: Of, yeah, he couldn't even identify Oswald in the lineup.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and every witness testimony around Dealey Plaza was contradictory.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, Okay, his story is inconsistent with the
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: facts developed by the Commission, but that it doesn't mean
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: that the facts developed by the Commission are accurate. That's
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: time very true. That is that Oswald walk from the
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: building for several blocks, got on a bus, and get
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: off the bus and walk more blocks than finally took
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: the taxi. It is possible the Lake is concocting the
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: story to help himself get out of jail. So of
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: course that's going to be the natural conclusion of law
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: enforcement officers. Of course they're thinking, well, this guy's you know,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: he's facing time. You know, he's going to come up
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: with this story that he was in Dallas in sixty
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: three and witnessed this thing, and for what what's the
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: end game here? I mean, it's kind of weird that
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: four years after the assassination that this is your trump
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: you want to be get out of jail free cards. Weird.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a hell Mary in a sense.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So here's the type of guy that this guy is.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: From his rap sheet we have starting in nineteen forty
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: eight Toledo, Ohio. Donald he Lake assault and battery and rape, Phoenix, Arizona,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: October twenty nine, fifty one, driving reckless driving. He joined
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: the Army in February twenty fifth, fifty two. Apparently he
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: was out of the army by two months later, because
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: on April thirteenth to fifty two, he was charged again
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: with reckless driving in Phoenix.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: And that's hard to get reckless driving back then. It's
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: different than now. Yeah, so let's put that in perspective.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: Four months after that, in August to fifty two, he
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: was charged with involuntary rape and stolen automobile. Two days
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: later he something something number five nine seven seven and
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: involving grand theft from the from Chandler, Arizona, Ohio.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Huh what does involuntary r stand for?
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know, dude. I'm sure it was involuntary on
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: the victim's part.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's going to make sense.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, unless he was a very good looking man
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: and you know, some cougar got a hold of him
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: or something. Who knows. And apparently he's in the army
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: again because in April of fifty three he was transferred
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: to Hayes and some Fort Hayes, Columbus, Ohio.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: Oh so he wasn't kicked out apparently not?
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: Wow? And uh, May fifty four towards the game with
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: and voluntary rape and then he's back in Roswell at
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: the beginning in nineteen fifty eight Roswell, New Mexico WG
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: whatever that means. And then a couple weeks later in
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles, California, suspected of crimes against children. Seven months
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: later in fifty nine statutory rape in Los Angeles, and
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: then Sacramento. He was a patient at Ati Scaredero Hospital
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: mental institution. Then we go back to Tucson sixty one
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: child molesting. Then we go to Augustine, Florida. Now he's
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: using the alias Jack Lawrence Harris, alias for gl whatever
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: that his grand larcenay. I guess. Five months in county jail.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: Then he's in Texas in nineteen sixty three, Joe, he
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: was arrested in Abilene, Texas June thirty is sixty three
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: for indecent exposure. He got a seventy five dollars fine.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: But you know what that does. That puts him in
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: Texas in nineteen sixty three. So hal Al's way is
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: his story. I mean, if he was rested somewhere else
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: in sixty three, people say that, hey, this guy's full
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: of crap. But then we're back to in nineteen fifty seven.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: He was arrested as Jane using the alias James Lawrence
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: Martin indecent liberties with a female under the age of
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: sixteen to cause delinquency. Jay Lawrence Martin, James Lawrence Martin. Wow, Yeah, So.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: Where did you say he was? He was around the TSBD.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where it was it in say
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. Lake stated that he was living in Dallas,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Texas when President Kennedy was assassinated. He could not recall
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: his exact address in Dallas, but he believed he was
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: living on Eighth Street at the time. He claimed he
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: had lived a short time prior to the assassination in
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: an apartment located at tenth and Llewellyn Streets. He thought
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: the address was one thousand and one Llewellyn. The owner
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: of the apartment house lived on one side of the
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: apartment house, and Lake claimed he lived in the other
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: apartment on the other side. Lake stated that when he
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: was looking at Lee Harvey Oswald through to the binoculars,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: he saw the first two shots fired by Oswald. Lake
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: related the prior to the shooting, he had purchased two
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: six packs of beer, which he was carrying in a
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: brown paper bag when he reached an intersection near the
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: building from which the shots were fired, that there was
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: a large number of persons watching the parade of autos,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: and he stopped on the corner. He was unable to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: remember the names of the streets at the intersection that
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: he was at. No, it's more interesting, Lake claimed he
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: stopped beside a male wearing a light tan colored western
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: style clothing and hat. Now, if you've ever seen a
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: picture of the prayer Man, Joe, have you? Have you
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: ever seen the picture of the man in the tan
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: outfit with the cowboy hat on and the cowboy boots
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: and in the western style jacket he's captured in the
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: photo the prayer Man is in.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: I know what you're talking about.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: I can't from the darknel film, I.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: Can't picture in my mind. But I think we went
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: over him in the Tan Sport Code episode.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: But yet, yes, no we didn't.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: But oh, another one.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: Then there's spectator. Okay, but anybody out there, pull up
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: the prayer Ram picture and you'll see him. If Joe
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: can do it while I'm talking, that'd be great, because
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: if what he's saying here is true, then he had
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: to be there. You know what I'm saying, how else
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: could you make this guy up? Because I think the
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: still is from the Darnell film, and I don't know
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: how this guy would have ever seen that, given his
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: history from behind bars and everything. You know we're talking
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: about in nineteen sixty three here, how would you? But
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: he claimed to stop beside a male wearing light tan
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: colored western style clothing and hat. He cannot furnish any
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: further description of the individual, but he added that the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: man had a large pair of army type binoculars on
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: a strap around his neck, and that Lake stated the
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: the man commented that the authorities had a large number
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: of agents present to protect to protect the president, and
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: the man mentioned that one of the agents was stationed
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: with a rifle in a window, to which the man pointed.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: Lake stated it was the building from which Oswald had
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: shot the president. Lake was asked about the name of
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: the building, and he replied that he was not certain,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: but he thought it was the Depository Book building. Lake
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: stated that he was permitted by the man with the
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: binoculars to look through them, and he merely put the
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: binoculars to his eyes without the binocular owner removing the
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: strap from his neck. Lake stated that he saw Oswald
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: in the window of the building holding a gun. He
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: could not recall on which floor that he saw Oswald,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: but he also stated he could see Oswald from the
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: shoulders up only. He stated that Oswald did not have
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: a hat on, and he could not describe the clothing
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: being worn by Oswald, but he claimed that he saw
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: him fire one shot and then two seconds later another shot.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: He recalled there was also a puff of dust at
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: the window following the shots, as though someone had fired
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: at Oswald. Lake advised that immediately after the shooting, Oswald
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: and the rifle disappeared. Lake was asked if Oswald was
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: right handed or left handed, and he replied that Oswald
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: was right handed in view of the manner in which
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: he held the rifle. Lake also stated that about five
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: or ten seconds before Oswald fired the first shot, he
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: saw a second white male make a brief appearance in
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: the window next to where Oswald was and then disappear
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: back into the building. Lake described as second man as
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: being about forty three to forty five years age of age,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: a thinner build, wearing a business suit. He was unable
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: to further describe the second man or the suit that
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: he was wearing. Lake stated that when the shots were fired,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: the owner of the binoculars made the statement that the
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: president had been shot, and Lake claimed that he did
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: not at any time see the president. Did you find
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: that picture yet, Joe? I, so I went.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: To uh prayer Man's website of course, friend of the show,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: bart Camp, and we can go through it together and
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: you can tell me if one of these are him.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: Yep, I can already tell you that it is.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: All right, So blow it up, am I blowed up?
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah? But I think you're on the wrong picture, right, Okay,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: I have a couple Okay, yeah, I know you do.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: So right there, Okay, well I don't right there that
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: ass it is right there to the left with his
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: butt towards us, with the cowboy had on light colored
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: suit western western wear right there. Yeah boom. Now it's
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: hard to see if he has binoculars around his neck,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: but there is something dark on his back. They could
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: possibly be from like a cord or something. I don't
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: know what the dot.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: No. I think that might be a a camera thing,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: but you can't tell because his has had his tilted
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: back right, so anything around his neck would be kind
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: of camouflaged by this kind of top hat he has on.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just made me think about this guy, you know,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: as Lake is describing him, and if there was somebody
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: actually there at that intersection dressed that way.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: One sir, Yeah, there we go. Yeah, uh you know,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: let me, I'm going to really zoom in here. It's
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: really hard to tell. It does kind of look like
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: somethings around his neck. There's a white space there, but
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: it's impossible to of course confirm.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: But it's hard to tell. But we think we had
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: just around his neck. He's looking up at the wind
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: that you think he'd be using him.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: He is looking up. He is looking up for sure. Yeah,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: and I think, look this guy in the right here,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: he's looking up too. A lot of people are looking
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: up right now. Really interesting, unless oh we got one more.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: I think that's just an enhanced version of prayer man. Yeah,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean he's looking up for sure.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It just made me think of that
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: and the way he described it, and to see somebody
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: there addressed it that way is interesting. Yeah. So Lake
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: stated that he had never told anyone that he saw
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: President Kennedy being shot. He'd advised during this period, he
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: saw Oswald after the shooting, and during the period he
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: knew Oswald was in the taxi cab, he did not
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: make any comment to anybody about Oswald as the shooter
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: at the time he so. He stated that upon returning
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: to his residence, he mentioned to his wife that he
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: was in the area where President Kennedy had been shot,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: but he claimed not to have mentioned anything to her
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: about seeing the shooting. Lake was asked why he did
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: not come forward with this information before the present time.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: He replied that at the time of the assassination, he
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: was on probation. He was in violation of probation out
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: of Los Angeles County Court at Los Angeles, California, on
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: a statutory rape charge, and he did not want to
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: disclose his whereabouts to the authorities. Lake was asked if
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: he had ever received any treatment from any type of
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: mental ailment, and he stated that he had not. Although
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: he stated he had suffered three brain concussions within the
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: past two years, he declined to elaborate on the details
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: or dates as to when the concussions had taken place.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: Lake advised his wife, whose first name is Anna, is
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: currently in prison in Marysville Ohio. He stated that she
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: would be unable to furnishing the information concerning his observations
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: of the assassination because he never told her Jack shit, Yeah, yeah, I.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: Mean I'm not sure I would either if if I
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: was Sauss and my So.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: It says here the following description of Donald Herbert Lake
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: aka James Lee Roy Martin, Jack Harris, Jack Lawrence, and
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: Jack Lawrence Martin. So he had a couple of different
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: aliases there, Bud j Martin, Aleises Lee Roy, and Lawrence.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: We missed a couple.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: Well. Jack Harris doesn't count as Jay Martin. Race, white, male,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: birth date May thirty, first, twenty four to Ledo, Ohio.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: Hair dark brown, is is brown one nine scar on
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: the nose of the bridge and on the right shin
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: tattoos to say ms PA on the right upper arm,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: Don on the right wrist, and Anne on the left
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: upper forearm, and Mom on his penis. A review of
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: records at the Toledo Police Department on April eighty sixty
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: eight revealed that Donald Herbert Lake, also known as Fritz,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: as Toledo Department number three seven eight ninety three and
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: FBI number nine oh four seven sixty six a on
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: April the eight sixty eight. Captain Alfred Bartowski, a detective
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: the Lucas County Jail, Toledo, Ohio, advice he is well
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: acquainted with Lake since Lake has been questioned in regard
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: to unsolved sex crimes in the Toledo area. He explained
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: that on December twenty fifth, sixty seven, Lake turned himself
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: into the custody of deputies at Lucas County Jail, and
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: he is current being held in the charge of electing
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: a minor and contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Captain Bartowski advised he could not definitely state exactly where
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Lake was in November of nineteen sixty three, although he
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: was arrested in Abilene, Texas in June of sixty three.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: So very interesting stuff there from a witness that I
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: had never heard of before. And who is a J.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: Martin to J Martin alias Joe. So what do you
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: think about that? Well, this is damn close to forty that.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not exactly sure what to think about it yet,
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: But you know, I love a J. Martin alias. But
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: it just it's very interesting that this guy, I think
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: at some point he.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: Had a J.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: Harris other alias right, and then James Martin alias as well,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: very similar type of middle of the road names, not
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: you know, like the Smith's type of thing. But why
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: this guy would have a J. Martin alias when we've
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: talked about how many other people have had crazy J
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Martin aliases? I have no idea. Is a coincidence?
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: Is it not?
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: I have no idea, but it's extremely interesting nonetheless, And
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: let's see. And yeah, I started this comment from before
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: because I wanted to talk about it, But yes, there
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: was a bombing on Christmas that was Sturgis. Is definitely
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: a suspect when it comes to that. I believe Hargraves
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: was there as well.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: And I believe.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: A journalist or two, whether it was Dick Billings or
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: Dicky Chappelle. And it's funny that you have a man
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: and a woman both at the same Dick and Dickie
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: And mister Robbie, how are you. I've had researchers of
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: ADHD on the show. If a parent has it, your
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: kid does blah blah blah. But you know what, I
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: have ADHD as well, Robbie, And I've listened to those episodes.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: They are very insightful. And I've learned a lot about it.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: And two, oh, hi Rob, Hi, Robbie from Out of
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: the Blankets here, and we were talking a little bit
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: about ADHD or something of that and what did what did?
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: Bungle had a great comment. I think we were all
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: in the spectrum, Sally, Yeah, and I have ADHD, Like
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: I was saying, Rob, I'm repeating it. So I've enjoyed
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: those episodes too. But of course we love Robbie in
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: here as well. I think good researchers have to have
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: some aspect of hahd or or something. Yeah, right, I mean,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: who in their right mind looks through documents from sixty
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: plus years ago for tidbits, right?
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: But nerds or yeah, unrealistically obsessed folks you know who know? Yeah?
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And let let's see. Oh and Dave said, in
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: relation to the picture of whether that guy in the
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: white light colored suit had anything around his neck inconclusive,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: and I think I could speak to you we agree.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Of course, this is just a thought that popped in
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: my head while reading his description of where he was
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: and what he was doing that day. And of course
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: the picture of that guy in that outfit popped into
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: my head and doesn't mean, doesn't mean anything other than
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: just me speculating, right or sharing a possibility, you know, yeah.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: For sure, for sure. And Rob, I mentioned this to
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: you really quickly before he went on, as we were
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: dealing with our audio issues. But I was looking through
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: some of the Jack Ruby calls and I found something
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: very interesting. You better be listening, Trey about the Gay
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: Nineties club. And this is from a DPD memo on
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: Jack Ruby's long distance phone calls. The DPD memo was
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: dated December first, nineteen sixty three, and the range of
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: this document of his calls or from October nine, nineteenth,
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: so you're talking like a month and a day or
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: two before the assassination up to November twentieth, which is
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: two days before the assassination, which is interesting why they
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: didn't just go to the twenty second. But regardless, as
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: I was just browsing, I saw Gay Nineties Club and
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: we talked about this earlier. There were two Gay nineties
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: clubs that I thought, and I've looked into this at
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: that time, and they were in Dallas, Texas, in which
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: the manager was mister James Herbert Martin, who admitted to
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: knowing Ruby and his warrant Commission testimony. And we have
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: long talked about how that's very not It's very possible
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: because everyone in Dallas knew Ruby, especially if you're operating
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: a motel or a bottle club, which the Gay Nineties was.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't be surprised you if Jack Ruby stopped
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: at the Gay nineties and Shreveport on his way to
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: New Orleans from time to time just saying could have
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: hooked him up, you know, and been like, hey, you know,
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: watch out for this guy. He's a fellow club owner.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: Treat him well, you know, type of thing.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent possible. But so when I was doing
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: my Gay nineties club research back when we were doing
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: the Martin thing, Uh, the first thing in the Google
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: searches was the Gay Nighties club in Minneapolis. But that
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: was like the picture of the bar was super new.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: It was like you could tell it was like very
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: what's the word, I don't want to say, like hipster,
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: but like very hip you know, like it was new. Right,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: This wasn't like the Gay nineties club sign in Shreveport, right, Uh,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: that that might be fifty sixty years old, sixty plush.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: So Jack Ruby on November sixteenth, which is for five six,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: a little less than a week before the assassination, is
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: calling the Gay Nineties Club in Minneapolis, Minnieanapolis, which was
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Minneapolis. So I did a
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: little more searching on it. And he called the Gay
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: Nineties Club a long distance telephone call on November sixteenth.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: And this is an HSCA report to inquire about a
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: stripper named Smokey Turner, Smoky Turner about employment. So this
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: is obviously a situation kind of like Jada, where he's
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: trying to get like a residence of sort for like
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: a lack of better word.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: Bring in some new trim every now and then, Joe variety.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: Is it they spice or key to life, whatever it is, Yes,
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: that type of thing. And so he's he's calling the
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Gay Nineties Club. So that makes me think, I think
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: I have one morks line here.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: See the Shreveport Club opening fifty nine. So it is
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: possible that really stop there on the way through, Oh
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And and that's my point. If he's if he's
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: getting if he's calling the Gay Nineties Club, and you know,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: you're assuming some type of of familiarity within those three clubs.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: Right Hard Graves apparently from Shreeport, Louisiana.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, stop, I have not. I'm not like,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a that's another rabbit hole to go down,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: But I found Yeah, so I found these details. And
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: Jack calls Miss Smokey Turner Minneapolis for ten minutes at
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: eighteen pm on November sixteenth, nineteen sixty three, from.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: Ewing, Ewing, Texas. The hell was he doing in Ewing sixteenth?
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: Your guess this is good as mine. Reregarding a performer's
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: job at the carousel, Jack tells her that joy Dale
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: aka Joyce McDonald we've covered her on our Stripper episode Dance,
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: recommended her to him. But why would he call her that? Okay,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: and asked for photos. Obviously you got to get the
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: photos right and publicity material, which Miss Turner sentence, and
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: there's a I think this, I think this is agent.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: Oh no, this might be either commissioned document or HCA.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: I was kind of screenshotting here, but there's a bunch of.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: The FBI document or commission document from the FBI, the
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: climent's report.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: The top one, not the bottom one.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: I think I it. So, yeah, I do that for
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: referencing Commission documents.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, commissions at CD right, CD right. So here
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: we go, one oh five, one oh five. Yeah, so
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: it's you're exactly right.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: So hey on, Joe, we're breaking news happening over here
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: in the comments section.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I'm I'm stopping sharing now, all right.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: Let's go. Apparently our buddy Robbie is stopping everything at
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: seventeen hundred. Seventeen hundred, you were just on sixteen fifty eight,
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: is that right?
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: I was on sixteen something eight.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're in sixteen fifty eight, which can
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: he's close to seventeen hundred. He's on sixteen ninety two
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: because he records so far ahead of time. Okay, so wow,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: don't do it, Robbie.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: Don't do it, Robbie. I think I'm not sure if
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: I believe him.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: Here are you just stopping YouTube and continuing on Spotify?
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: Are you just stopping everything?
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Stopping everything? At seventeen hundred?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: That was, but well, you've had an epic run and like,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know, what is that? Five times more shows
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: than I've ever done. I mean, that's crazy. You've already
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: podcasted for a lifetime, bro so even if you do stop,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: then you you've done well. Yeah, the world is a
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: their place for what you've what you've done. For sure,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: you into other things. Maybe get a girlfriend, maybe have
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: some kids, have a life, enjoy yourself.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: Well, he has a very cute dog and.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Sort of jack Ruby and look where that. Look what
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: happened there? He left?
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: He left Sheba right, he left her in the car.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: I think I think Siba was fond of peanut butter,
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: if you get what I'm saying.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, the occasional episode and listen, we you know, getting
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: a break is always doing breaks are always good. But
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: I just love the versatility. I was listening to an
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: episode on on like Ghosts and the something Natural. I'm
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: blanking on the name of it, but yeah, it with
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: Sheba supernatural and I just love from like that.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: Your dog's name is not Sheba.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: But we love Robbie and we hope he's just screwing
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: with us here because and if you're not, we better be.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: Seventeen hundred Row, I'm just kidding. You just should have
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: a massive, like twenty person JFK panel at the seventeen hundred.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: If that's the.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: Last, well a couple of years we'll do aware they
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: now podcast will invite one light Robbie begins show when
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: he's like a multi millionaire and successful, and that'd be
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: a great shop.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he can't come on any time, of course. But
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: I thought that was very interesting that Jack Ruby is
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: calling a gay nineties club in Minnesota, and I made
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: the wrong assumption that it wasn't active in nineteen sixty three,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: and I have to go back now and see exactly
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: when it was opened and did they have any connection,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: because we know there were three Dallas, Reveport and Minnesota.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: And Johnavan and nationwide chain. Man, if they were that
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: part apart, I mean I could see Texas and New
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: Orleans were kind of close to the other, but Minneapolis
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: is way off the beaten.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: Path, That's what I'm saying.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: So from when I looked into Joe, I want to
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: say there was there was one in San Francisco, and
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: I think there was one in Colorado if I'm remembering correctly.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: That would make sense. I remember when I looked into it,
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: I was like specifically looking for ones that I could
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: prove were were active in sixty three or before. Right,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: the Shreveport one was what fifty nine you said.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: Earl Ruby living Minnesota or was it Michigan. I want
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: to say with Detroit, I could be mistaken of and
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: for some reason Detroit is screaming out of my head.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: You might be.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: I'd say Detroit is probably more likely, but I'm of
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: course not sure. But uh so, if he's going reaching out,
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: So let's assume that those three clubs are the network
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: of clubs are related. Then was the Gay Nineties Club
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: not a bottle club like we've read in all the
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: documents in regards to James uber Martin being the manager?
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: There was it actually like maybe a late night spot
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: where once the carousel closed or or it was like
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: a type of.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: Type thing.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like like the girls that are down go thereafter,
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: and like James, guys with a.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: Lot of money go there after and pay a lot
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: of money for the girls to go thereafter.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: And if you need to go to a hotel, you
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: go right to the Six Flags. It's it's very interesting
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: and I found this almost by accident while just looking
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: for a couple of graphics of things earlier today. And
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: that's what happens when when you look through random things,
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: you can make connections. And we're not saying it is,
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: but it is very interesting.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: None always always sus for sure. Yeah.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: Well, and of course that the Gay Nineties Club in
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: Dallas was owned by Clay Martin. For the documents that
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: we have.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all night long partying like we're in the Gay
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: nineties glove. But thank you to everyone who showed up
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: and hung out with us this evening. It's been entirely fun.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: We hope you had fun. In the comments section, we
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: hope you have fun in the future listening to this show. Yes,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: and thank you for everyone stopping by and swinging dicks
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: like Robbie swinging. Bye, go check out this show. Out
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: of the Blank podcast. Apparently he's quitting us and a
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: short while, but he's got a lot to catch up on.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: And if you're not the point, uh not only about
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: sixteen hundred episode seventeen hundred by the end. You know
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: you might get done listening to them all in three
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: or four years. But oh good right, Yeah, he'll be back. Well, Joe,
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: party on. Well, we are gonna party on. I want
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: to party on to bed because I have to get
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: up early and record a Dallas accident oh with Doug
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: and a very special guest from Nolan's Dawls.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: Joe, I know who it is. I won't be a spoiler.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not gonna We're not gonna spoil it.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: But we have a very special guest from Nolan's. We
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: will be joining myself on the Dallas Actions podcast. We'll
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: recording that tomorrow, so look for that coming out in
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: the future and again in a couple of weeks and
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: other quick kids sooner than later. I gotta check my calendar.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: But anyway, that's it ross folks until next week. Thank
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: you guys for showing up, for showing out and hanging out.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you, he.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: Will, Robbie who will, thanks my friend? Hello, Hello High,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: Hello High. That's not the extent of my Hawaiian long
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: journey that in Cahuna. Uh yeah, I'm all out of Hawaiian.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: Don't forget Maui one of year anniversary this week West
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: Lying grab in history.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah better pink roof blue there, but you don't get
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: the Linger beams.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: We are the white Irish Ins. That's right, all right, folks.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: We love you. We'll see you next week. We are out.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: Shadows, mysteries
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: Obscured,