Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Shia Cultures & Practices - Are they Backwards? (Ft. Haseeb Rizvi)

Transcript

Shia Cultures & Practices - Are they Backwards? (Ft. Haseeb Rizvi) · After Maghrib 🌙

• 0:00
  Salaam Alaikum What's happening?
• 0:21
  Humdular? Much better.
• 0:22
  You know, usually, why don't you tell people what your interests
• 0:26
  are like? OK, pre pre recording takes
• 0:30
  about a few moments for me to calibrate my mind.
• 0:33
  Few moments I go pray I'm not going to be sure.
• 0:36
  I come back and still do it. I'm just.
• 0:37
  I'm joking. I show up on time.
• 0:39
  We're going to go there. Today I'm going.
• 0:41
  Before you say I'm joking, I'm joking.
• 0:43
  I'll be behind. What's happening?
• 0:44
  I'm. I'm good.
• 0:44
  What's going on? I'm better now that I'm sitting
• 0:46
  beside someone who I really love.
• 0:49
  Thank you. And I'm going to introduce him
• 0:50
  straight. I won't even have any my amazing
• 0:55
  how can I say even I'm me. We share in Charlotte, Bloodline
• 0:58
  and Charlotte. We've shared so much memories
• 1:00
  together for I See Brisby. Salaamwale come Salaam when he
• 1:03
  comes to. Now how you doing, man?
• 1:04
  I'm de la Man. It's good to be back in the UK.
• 1:06
  Good to have you back in the ends one.
• 1:08
  Yeah, man. How's this?
• 1:09
  Yeah. Yeah, it's been an interesting
• 1:11
  journey. So obviously listeners not
• 1:13
  listening like the mate obviously don't know where I've
• 1:15
  been, but I moved to California, so I'm back now.
• 1:19
  Well, just for a few days in Charlotte visiting.
• 1:22
  It's been good, man. The last few weeks is connecting
• 1:24
  with a lot of the brothers, both in Arbaeen over here.
• 1:27
  Yeah, just been nice. So you we've kind of been like
• 1:32
  on like a spiritual cleanse trip journey.
• 1:36
  Yeah, yeah. What were you?
• 1:38
  Because you went, obviously you're here now, which undoes
• 1:40
  all the cleansing. Yeah?
• 1:41
  Yeah, but what were you doing pre Arbaeen?
• 1:42
  Because I saw some beautiful. So pre Arbaeen, Humla went to
• 1:47
  Hawaii. Nice, which was like Suhanala,
• 1:50
  just like like paradise. Yeah, this is crazy, like the
• 1:53
  trees. And it's the ocean.
• 1:55
  So it's like it is as they say it is.
• 1:57
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:58
  But not all islands in Hawaii are equal like, OK, there's some
• 2:02
  that are like more developed. And then the one that we went to
• 2:04
  is called Kauai, like it's the least developed.
• 2:07
  So like 80% of it is still just like natural.
• 2:10
  It's natural, it's natural. It's quite a stunning.
• 2:13
  What's life like in California versus London?
• 2:17
  Life in California versus London is basically like the people and
• 2:23
  the culture is just chill, right?
• 2:27
  The weather's good. Obviously that plays a big role
• 2:29
  in everyone's like, mood because it's relatively a still very new
• 2:35
  place, right? Like it's in like probably like
• 2:38
  only like 500 years old, if that.
• 2:40
  I don't think it's even that old.
• 2:42
  Everything's been designed for, like, convenience, you know?
• 2:44
  So just like little things. Like never having to worry about
• 2:47
  a parking ticket. So home the two two years, no
• 2:50
  parking tickets. Longest week of my life I've.
• 2:53
  Probably gone like 2 weeks. So and then again then come back
• 2:55
  to London. That's the first thing I
• 2:56
  realized. I was like, yeah, driving is
• 2:57
  like stressful over here, you know.
• 2:59
  Yeah. Like compared to California,
• 3:00
  it's just like it's just chill. So now that that's some of the
• 3:04
  differences but obviously halal food scene in London is is like
• 3:08
  that's top tier that's like, yeah.
• 3:10
  The whole people in London recognize what we have, like
• 3:12
  it's it's good here. The food is good, yeah.
• 3:15
  Whoever comes from abroad to the UK, the first thing they want to
• 3:18
  try is the restaurants. Yeah, especially if they're
• 3:20
  coming from like North America and places.
• 3:22
  Are you going to think about it? MMM.
• 3:24
  You. Can Courage and Pepes and.
• 3:25
  Literally every Rd. is gonna say every Rd.
• 3:27
  You got 5-10 years. Yeah, this.
• 3:30
  Is about over there, especially in Southern California.
• 3:34
  Like the halal food offerings are dire.
• 3:36
  Like as in, it's just like what people celebrate there.
• 3:39
  It makes me upset. Like I said, yeah, I've seen
• 3:41
  your struggle. Yeah, so, you know, like on
• 3:44
  Instagram, I've shared that everything.
• 3:45
  I'm just joking. I'm like, not actually upsets me
• 3:47
  that there's fried chicken. This is what we're used to.
• 3:50
  This is like. This is it, you know.
• 3:51
  This is our culture. And then you realize that, OK,
• 3:53
  London fried chicken is basically its own, like, genre.
• 3:57
  Like, isn't. That's not like how Americans
• 3:58
  make fried chicken. Obviously fried chicken come
• 4:00
  from America. MMM.
• 4:01
  But the way the uncle's basically make it in the shops,
• 4:03
  they've, like, mixed it up completely.
• 4:05
  They've write their culture. Yeah, exactly different.
• 4:07
  Some of the Indian spices in there.
• 4:09
  So it's it's a different it's a different ball game but humming
• 4:12
  up it's been nice to come back you know and.
• 4:15
  Yeah, no, it's good to have you back, man.
• 4:16
  For those who don't know, Hasib, of course, is.
• 4:19
  I said said he's one of our own. Yeah, the goal, the goal of
• 4:24
  graphics, the. Graphic goat Wow, I've got
• 4:27
  competition now. Yeah, that tough cheek killed me
• 4:34
  because he's got Andrew agitated hair.
• 4:37
  He's. Got We're not going there.
• 4:38
  Anyway, we all got there anyway. I've seen, for those who don't
• 4:41
  know, joined Alabe TV. What, like 2010?
• 4:45
  2920 thousand 9 from establishment. -6 months from
• 4:49
  launching. Really.
• 4:49
  Yeah. It's found a lot.
• 4:50
  So obviously from here, from from day one, cofounder of the
• 4:54
  Muslim vibe was the one who cofounder of whose Hussein
• 4:58
  bought the the domain, whose hussein.org was instrumental,
• 5:02
  I'd say, in some of the biggest and most groundbreaking
• 5:06
  campaigns in the Western Shia world.
• 5:08
  So we owe a lot, I think, as a community to Hasib and now of
• 5:12
  course the Muslim family hub, which is one of Hasib.
• 5:15
  Other brainchilds and martial arts thriving.
• 5:19
  So I think I kind of want to start because I know today we're
• 5:21
  going to talk about for those. Obviously, I know we haven't
• 5:23
  even introduced the topic, but we're going to talk about
• 5:25
  establishing our identity as Western sheer Muslims generally,
• 5:31
  which I think is so. Instrumental to a podcast like
• 5:34
  After Mugler because we we pride ourselves on being like you said
• 5:38
  a very unique genre of Muslim people in the sense that we are
• 5:42
  born and bred western but we come from varying backgrounds
• 5:46
  culturally and ethnically. But of course we we share
• 5:49
  something in common which is values and religion.
• 5:52
  But to kind of kick off here, I think it may be a good place to
• 5:55
  start is you on your on your kind kind of own personal
• 5:58
  journey. Last 15 odd years, why have you
• 6:01
  spent? The majority of your life doing
• 6:04
  work for the community. So I'll rephrase that a little
• 6:08
  bit. It's not for the community, it's
• 6:10
  for that debate. Right.
• 6:13
  And I think sometimes we should, we should make that verbal
• 6:16
  distinction because we say sometimes community, community,
• 6:17
  but it's like that's looking in with.
• 6:20
  I'm not trying to say in the holier than that way like
• 6:22
  genuinely like I was just mentioning this to above earlier
• 6:24
  today. Like, it's a very simple moment
• 6:27
  on the hour when I was 15 years old, and the classic kind of
• 6:30
  question to the mall and like. Please give you advice for the
• 6:33
  youth, right. Yeah.
• 6:34
  Yeah. But he gave a very like just
• 6:37
  like simple but like hard hitting answer and don't know
• 6:40
  the guy's name but he changed my life.
• 6:43
  He simply said whatever you're good at apply that to serve a
• 6:46
  lot in the herbates. And at the time I was good at
• 6:49
  all, right. Like I was good at drawing and
• 6:51
  painting and stuff like that. But I was like how can I can
• 6:53
  like I don't know how I can like logically make that effective
• 6:57
  for the cause of a lot in the herbates.
• 7:00
  And so then kind of just like found myself being intrigued by
• 7:03
  design and then that's the art itself, just connecting me with
• 7:06
  brothers that were like way older than me.
• 7:08
  Some of them were pioneers of this TV channel.
• 7:11
  And you know, the opportunity just came about like, you know,
• 7:15
  hey, listen, we want to do like, first it was a DVD documentary
• 7:19
  called Karbala and Skyes of Blood.
• 7:22
  And at that time, I had experimented with just like
• 7:23
  basic graphics and stuff like that.
• 7:25
  I was doing digital art, Islamic art, sharing online and stuff.
• 7:28
  This is back in the sheer chat days and then it was like a
• 7:33
  documentary and with no experience of motion graphics.
• 7:36
  So I didn't, I'm like, yeah, down.
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  I'm like whatever, like let's do it.
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  Let's smell that. And and that was a phenomenal
• 7:42
  experience like getting to see all of that growing with the
• 7:45
  with those guys. And I was like really lucky.
• 7:48
  I was like a 16 year old kid and I had friends that were like
• 7:51
  2225 years old, right. So I got like this late pass for
• 7:54
  my mom because she knew I was safe.
• 7:56
  And all my other friends like, well, he's just like chilling in
• 7:58
  central London and stuff like that today.
• 8:00
  And I was like it was just nice because I had that brotherhood
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  and those connections like literally everybody was like,
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  you know like an older mentor for me, him say the mayor all of
• 8:10
  us. Yeah.
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  Like some of those guys are just like they're those are the the
• 8:14
  goats, right. Like those are the real, geez,
• 8:15
  you know. And then, yeah, then just like
• 8:19
  one opportunity let's another, you know, like I said
• 8:21
  documentary and then after that TV channel open.
• 8:24
  Exhausting myself for the TV channel.
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  Humble are putting so much passion and and not not just me
• 8:29
  on my own but like collectively as a young team.
• 8:32
  Like we go back to to those days, you know, I mean like we
• 8:35
  were so young then. Like I think you sent a picture
• 8:36
  the other day. Yeah, of us like 10 years ago.
• 8:39
  And like we grinded at the at this channel.
• 8:42
  Hum the love. Yeah, the loss Work.
• 8:43
  It's at 3:00 AM, five am God knows how many hours just
• 8:46
  getting it done. You know the good amount of
• 8:48
  fried chicken as. Well, yeah, yeah.
• 8:50
  I can't see when a lot. That was a.
• 8:53
  Changer, yeah. Yeah.
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  So hum de la. You know like I said the
• 8:56
  opportunities came. I just basically grabbed them
• 8:59
  and one thing let another and and that's basically.
• 9:02
  Yeah, yeah, a little bit. TV, Well, some great memories,
• 9:05
  yeah, my memories, yeah. But you know, you being young as
• 9:08
  16, you know you said that moment that Ziyara hit you and
• 9:12
  you're going to apply what you're good at and serve a lot
• 9:14
  on the elevates, have the lot you have and you still do.
• 9:17
  You mentioned the point where you say I was good.
• 9:19
  I think you are still good. We just make make sure I say
• 9:22
  that. But what I want to know, Haseeb
• 9:25
  is that let's say now you left elevated, you're no longer
• 9:27
  working with the channel, but you still continue in that
• 9:29
  field. I can say in a way, has the
• 9:32
  culture changed of how it was when you were 16, the way you
• 9:36
  want to know? That's that's a that's a great
• 9:38
  question. I think a lot has changed since
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  then primarily like you know I was, I was really thinking about
• 9:46
  this earlier and this might sound like crazy vein, right.
• 9:49
  But I was looking for out there like back in the day like for me
• 9:52
  to design something that went viral was relatively easy right.
• 9:56
  I'll design something, I'll like it on Shia chat.
• 9:58
  I'll like it on CYC forums right Poly post on Facebook and even
• 10:03
  of course. And then the next year you'd
• 10:06
  basically see everyone's like display picture for Muharram
• 10:09
  would be like something that I designed.
• 10:11
  I thought that was pretty nice right?
• 10:13
  Now like that doesn't really happen and it's just basically,
• 10:16
  I feel like what's changed is social media has basically
• 10:19
  exposed us to so much content, right?
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  And and honestly like quality content as well.
• 10:24
  Like there's some crazy like martial talented artists and
• 10:28
  designers in the in the sheer community and Muslim community
• 10:30
  at large. But nothing sticks anymore,
• 10:33
  right? Yeah, but nothing you can have
• 10:36
  AI and mid journey and stuff and that's doing yeah abstract non
• 10:40
  human concepts and yeah it will get lost and.
• 10:42
  That's it. You're just you're just
• 10:43
  scrolling through it. Scrolling through.
• 10:45
  And that's it, right? This.
• 10:45
  Is this what I was going to say? Like attention spans generally?
• 10:48
  I think the core of it is our attention.
• 10:50
  Yeah, like our attention spans have changed big time, and
• 10:53
  that's affected yet us virtually online and whatnot.
• 10:56
  But even in majority or with our parents or our friends, our
• 10:59
  attention to detail has like, maybe you could argue, dropped a
• 11:03
  lot. Yeah.
• 11:04
  And. Maybe that means that the demand
• 11:06
  from creators is higher and the demand for from like community
• 11:11
  organizers and needs is higher to do more.
• 11:13
  And with that said, like, good work still stands out.
• 11:16
  Yeah, right. So, like what Hassan Ruhala Mean
• 11:19
  has been able to do for the share culture for his paintings
• 11:21
  over the last few years, That's, that's.
• 11:23
  Second to none. That just speaks for itself,
• 11:25
  right? Like as you can tell, the heart
• 11:27
  in that work, right? And and honestly, I think that's
• 11:30
  like the biggest thing when there's heart in the work.
• 11:33
  And I mean like actual tears like you know like being
• 11:35
  connected to on that level then it reaches the heart right.
• 11:39
  But if it's just something done for the sake of hey I've got a
• 11:40
  post content and stuff like that then it's not gonna straight
• 11:43
  true. But nowadays like you know
• 11:45
  because of the the cycle of algorithm is like hey man you
• 11:48
  gotta post five times a day like you know it's like this whole
• 11:50
  like cold of like social media right.
• 11:53
  Yeah. So what really sticks was really
• 11:54
  gonna stand out no one's gonna remember anything right.
• 11:57
  So I think that's kind of changed in the in the wider
• 11:59
  culture. In terms of like the the Shia
• 12:02
  Muslim culture, since then like man, I've just, I've just seen
• 12:06
  nothing but development. I've just seen like the most
• 12:08
  amazing progress coming from us. You know 2012 is when he was
• 12:14
  saying launched, right? I think that was a cultural
• 12:18
  shift moment in the sense that we took Imam Hussein out of the.
• 12:25
  Yeah, the four walls, right, Hussein?
• 12:26
  Yeah. Right, which was the purpose,
• 12:28
  right. It's like, look, wait, we are
• 12:29
  talking about what I was saying. We already know about what I was
• 12:31
  saying. The world needs to know about
• 12:32
  what I was saying, right? So taking him out of our walls,
• 12:36
  right, And then sharing his message with the world.
• 12:38
  And then later on, like the Husseini spirit itself and the
• 12:41
  volunteers around the world taking that and saying, hey,
• 12:44
  actually the best way for us to reflect him, I was saying, is to
• 12:47
  do acts of service for other people and people in need.
• 12:51
  And that, for me, was like witnessing that I was just,
• 12:53
  like, mesmerized. By she knows are speaking to
• 12:55
  someone. Yesterday I was talking about,
• 12:57
  in my humble opinion, I think every major campaign which has
• 13:01
  had success, at least in our, like the western share world has
• 13:04
  had. Something to launch it into
• 13:07
  success. So if you're talking about TV
• 13:09
  channels, yeah, whether it's Adelbeit TV, Immocracy in TV,
• 13:12
  severe TV, all of the amazing channels, they've all had a
• 13:15
  campaign or a show or something which has launched them into the
• 13:19
  public eye. If you're talking about who is
• 13:21
  Hussein, you had the billboards in 2012, the blood campaign,
• 13:24
  which was a year or two years last year actually.
• 13:26
  And there's so many other things you can think of.
• 13:31
  And generally speaking, I think that a big part of that comes
• 13:33
  back to understanding culture. I know we're going to use this
• 13:35
  word a lot, all right. Now I think it's important for
• 13:39
  us to understand like we are like such a unique breed of
• 13:44
  human because we're a measure of varying cultures linguistically
• 13:48
  and ethnically and whatnot. So, but now we live in a world
• 13:51
  where you know, we're we're such a hybrid, like diaspora, like
• 13:57
  mix of people. And but somehow we connect and
• 14:01
  like I said earlier, we share something in common.
• 14:03
  You mentioned to me on the phone yesterday, like our parents
• 14:06
  established and they brought our homeland culture to us in our
• 14:10
  childhood. And now we're at a turning point
• 14:13
  and some of us, Hamdulah, three of us are parents.
• 14:15
  We're passing that on, but we're kind of passing on a bit of a
• 14:19
  like a like a changed image of what we were taught because
• 14:22
  we're obviously mixing that with the ingredients of our own
• 14:24
  culture. How important?
• 14:28
  Firstly, how do we define what culture is?
• 14:30
  Because that's a big word, Yeah, it's a conflated word.
• 14:32
  And secondly, is it important to grasp your understanding what
• 14:37
  your culture is and then carrying it forward?
• 14:39
  Because I'm just going to carry on for a second.
• 14:41
  But if someone asks me what's my culture, as I always say, I go
• 14:44
  through like identity crisis all the time because I have.
• 14:47
  I don't really understand what my, my, my homeland is.
• 14:49
  Yeah, my mother tongue. I'm not as as fluent as I should
• 14:52
  be and my my, my wife and my immediate family.
• 14:57
  Kids are all varying ethnic and linguistic backgrounds, so for
• 15:00
  me culture is like a huge thing. What is it and how much of it is
• 15:04
  there? So understanding it, I think is
• 15:06
  a really difficult thing for a lot of people.
• 15:08
  And even if they know what their culture is, sometimes they don't
• 15:10
  know what it is if you know what.
• 15:11
  I mean, no, I agree. I feel like culture as a word
• 15:14
  has got a very bad rap from us as Muslims.
• 15:17
  Yeah, especially like, you know, generationally we saw like after
• 15:23
  911. Like a lot of Muslims became
• 15:26
  more practicing of Islam because they were basically on the back
• 15:29
  foot and they had to, right. And so with that, or at least
• 15:33
  within, like, you know, the Pakistani Muslim community, what
• 15:37
  tends to happen is that all forms of culture get thrown to
• 15:40
  the wall, right? And you're like, okay, This is
• 15:43
  not Islam. This is culture.
• 15:44
  This is not Islam. This is culture.
• 15:45
  This is not Islam. This is culture, right.
• 15:48
  And then like, culture that seems like this like bad word,
• 15:51
  right? Like is it anyone who engages in
• 15:52
  culture is engaging in anything other than faith?
• 15:54
  Yeah, but that's a misunderstanding of culture
• 15:56
  because culture exists no matter what, right?
• 15:59
  Culture is what me and you're wearing.
• 16:00
  It's the language that we're using to talk to each other.
• 16:03
  It's our haircuts. It's the what we watch at home
• 16:07
  is what we listen to in the in the car, right?
• 16:09
  It's the car that we drive. That's what culture is.
• 16:11
  It forms everything, right? So you can't really control or
• 16:14
  suppress culture, right? Yeah.
• 16:16
  There's elements of culture, of course, that go against Sharia,
• 16:20
  right? But.
• 16:22
  The problem is, is because we don't like to use the term
• 16:24
  culture within a religious context, we're not being able to
• 16:28
  maximize its potential. Now, I'll give you an example.
• 16:33
  Opening your fast is Vajib in Ramadan.
• 16:35
  Yeah, right. Culture dictates, however,
• 16:39
  whether it's going to be a samosa or that lentil soup that
• 16:41
  you have. Yeah, sure, sure, but sure.
• 16:44
  But others? Right.
• 16:46
  So, like religion says, right? Mourn from on Hussein.
• 16:51
  Right. Culture says we're going to wear
• 16:54
  black. Yeah, right.
• 16:55
  When other cultures, they wear white.
• 16:57
  Yeah. Or mourning India.
• 16:59
  Yeah, right. It's only up to.
• 17:00
  Even even only of us who are Shias yeah, wear white or not
• 17:04
  sure. Yeah, it's yes, all cups are
• 17:05
  white. Culturally, in India is the
• 17:08
  color of mourning. Yeah, unless you're doing.
• 17:10
  So, so that's, that's, that's, that's that's basically culture,
• 17:14
  right? And so having that distinction
• 17:16
  allows you then to realize, oh, OK, like as long as I'm doing my
• 17:19
  religious obligations. The cultural part of it is
• 17:22
  technically and and like that much expressive without being
• 17:26
  misunderstood that we can have a little bit of fun with that.
• 17:28
  Do you know what I mean? We can, kind of.
• 17:30
  Experiment with that, right? How would you experiment with?
• 17:33
  That instead of, Sure, but like we can have open it with free
• 17:36
  salad, for example, right? You're a White River.
• 17:38
  Why are you eating a samosa for your star, for example?
• 17:42
  Does that person have the right to maintain their culture?
• 17:44
  Right. And that culture might be, I
• 17:46
  don't know, roast chicken, but it might be less and stuff,
• 17:49
  right? Shout out, yeah.
• 17:52
  Yeah, only less for, for, for. Being, I don't know.
• 17:55
  Whenever you see film, they're eating less, right?
• 17:57
  So like you know, like things like that you know and and so.
• 18:01
  But the problem is, is that because we haven't properly
• 18:04
  understood and defined culture. People then also make their
• 18:07
  culture, their religion, and we've seen that happen as well,
• 18:10
  right? When people take their culture
• 18:11
  because it's enmeshed with the religion, they take the cultural
• 18:14
  part as religious and as obligatory as the religious act
• 18:17
  itself, right? So they'll give you a weird look
• 18:19
  if you do certain things in Muharram because they like, no,
• 18:21
  we don't do it in Muharram, right?
• 18:23
  But it's just like you're like, if you understand, like, the
• 18:25
  separation distinction, it allows us to experiment with.
• 18:29
  It allows us to work on it, right?
• 18:31
  And ultimately, like culture. Is a tool in which we can change
• 18:38
  hearts, right? And that's how culture is being
• 18:40
  used against us right now, right?
• 18:42
  We have no choice but to consume the culture around us.
• 18:45
  Yeah, right. Unless you literally put your
• 18:48
  bury your head in the sound in the sand, we don't have a choice
• 18:51
  but to absorb culture. Culture is going to be the
• 18:53
  advertising campaign this year. You're not even watching TV.
• 18:55
  You're still driving past the Billboard, right?
• 18:57
  Culture dictates what that billboard might have on it.
• 19:00
  Yeah. So little little details like
• 19:03
  that, but we're not basically present when it comes to the
• 19:06
  cultural kind of battlefield as such.
• 19:08
  We just consume, we're not really creating.
• 19:11
  And and this era is like because of social media and where we are
• 19:14
  now, like this really is an era of content, like how good your
• 19:18
  content is can actually have an impact on people's opinions of
• 19:21
  something. So yeah, I think that should
• 19:24
  hopefully should. I'll answer the question of like
• 19:26
  what is culture? I have a lot of questions but
• 19:28
  I'm gonna ask a hand of said you know what I'm thinking of you
• 19:30
  you you mentioned the part where you you you said it's culture.
• 19:33
  Like it dictates yeah, what we consume.
• 19:35
  Yeah. Isn't that society know how I
• 19:38
  confused on myself? See, it's an interesting point
• 19:40
  because basically society builds the culture.
• 19:43
  Yeah, OK, but society is what? It's a collection of human
• 19:45
  beings. It's a collection of cultures as
• 19:47
  well. Yeah, if you imagine it.
• 19:48
  But generally you might have a societal culture.
• 19:50
  Yeah. So it's societal norm in the UK
• 19:52
  is to wear a shirt and tie in a suit when you go for a job
• 19:54
  interview, Yeah. But in other cultures, you're
• 19:55
  wearing a robe or whatever. It might be completely
• 19:58
  different. I think that's very interesting.
• 19:59
  And I think that maybe as a Muslim community.
• 20:02
  There needs to be like kind of game changing individuals who
• 20:06
  can advance us as she are culture, culture creators.
• 20:10
  Not just content creators, but culture creators.
• 20:12
  Like I like that concept and I think you've definitely been one
• 20:15
  of them. And for those who have followed
• 20:17
  your work, like you have a consistency when it comes to
• 20:19
  aesthetics, your branding, your colors, your fonts.
• 20:22
  Like it's a very niche thing that like when you see something
• 20:26
  like, I know how to admit this, like do you know what I mean?
• 20:28
  There's a minimalistic vibe that you have and a neon.
• 20:30
  Vibe. But those who don't know what
• 20:31
  you're talking about, how can they see your work just just
• 20:34
  before we consider? You told them my Instagram page.
• 20:38
  Which is put up on the screen. Store Risbee.
• 20:42
  RZV. RZV yeah.
• 20:44
  So, like, I completely. I think that's a really good
• 20:48
  point. Yeah, a lot of the times, maybe
• 20:51
  we and me especially might be victim to a very low level
• 20:56
  conversation of culture versus religion.
• 20:59
  How often do you hear that phrase, culture versus religion?
• 21:01
  Yeah, Magales. Culture versus religion, Absoc
• 21:03
  events, culture versus religion. And like you said, it becomes a
• 21:06
  war on culture. And I think the manipulation of
• 21:09
  culture, if we use it in the right way, can advance and
• 21:12
  accelerate our understanding of religion or it can deter and
• 21:15
  hinder. It, I mean, I give you an
• 21:16
  example of what's culture, right?
• 21:17
  Culture is millions of Husseinis.
• 21:20
  Feeling the the spiritual and kind of like human pain and love
• 21:27
  for Imam Hussein. Yeah, right.
• 21:29
  And then they culturally expressed it so organically that
• 21:32
  now there's 22 million of them gathering every year.
• 21:35
  Yeah, right. That's cultural, right?
• 21:38
  Yes, there is. Hadif that say go visit Imam
• 21:41
  Hussein on the yard, right? They may.
• 21:43
  I don't think there is any head. If that says go from Najib to
• 21:45
  Karbala, right? Well, I had signed it anyway.
• 21:49
  Yeah, we're not getting different conversation, yeah.
• 21:51
  But for example, even if there is a head if right.
• 21:53
  But like who said this, you should have Chai, right, right,
• 21:57
  exactly to give a man and we should do it and.
• 21:59
  Exactly. So these are going to take this,
• 22:00
  open them all, Kip? Yeah, exactly.
• 22:02
  Like this year? Yeah, so like this year, for
• 22:04
  example, I saw little girls, right?
• 22:05
  They they give perfume on you, right?
• 22:08
  That's a cultural act. You get what I mean?
• 22:10
  Yeah, yes, it's rooted in in a religious cause, right, and a
• 22:13
  religious meaning, but it's a cultural act, right?
• 22:16
  And So what I'm saying is, is that culture allows room right
• 22:20
  for these kind of things to exist which are not Haram.
• 22:23
  Right. You can't say, oh that's Haram.
• 22:24
  Like why is there people giving out perfumes to each other?
• 22:26
  You can't say it's Haram. Not there's a bit either because
• 22:28
  it's not really like you know, like can't be a bit because
• 22:31
  unless you have this original understanding of everything only
• 22:34
  the Prophet did and everything else is Haram by the writing a
• 22:37
  camel for example, that kind of argument.
• 22:40
  So so yeah, I see all of that now for example lets me, I know
• 22:44
  his right, we're seeing them change, right?
• 22:47
  We're seeing them change now, for example, like 20 years ago
• 22:50
  using sound effects in the back, right?
• 22:53
  That wouldn't be considered. OK.
• 22:54
  Was the no, right. Yeah.
• 22:55
  Cultural. Cultural norm, for example,
• 22:57
  would have been something else. And now, yeah, everyone's got
• 22:59
  like a slight instrumental in the back.
• 23:01
  Right. And we're OK with it Culturally,
• 23:03
  we've evolved. Right.
• 23:05
  And as a diary from I was saying has always evolved culturally.
• 23:07
  Yeah. Right.
• 23:09
  And so like, what I guess The thing is is that you can't
• 23:12
  really, like force culture either.
• 23:14
  You can't really like, quote UN quote, shape it.
• 23:16
  There's no like organization that can be created.
• 23:19
  That can be said, oh, we're going to guide culture to be
• 23:21
  this right because it's not organic.
• 23:23
  Culture is always organic. And So what resonates with
• 23:27
  people is going to stick. What doesn't resonate with
• 23:29
  people will fall off, right? As long as we're not going
• 23:32
  outside the bounds of Sharia, we're fine so.
• 23:37
  I don't know. I'm thinking of culture maybe
• 23:41
  ruining Islam sometimes in the sense what I mean by that is.
• 23:46
  You know you may have some certain cultural practices that
• 23:49
  go against Islam completely. Yeah, as you said, I don't want
• 23:53
  to say this is a bit out or something.
• 23:55
  I don't want to enter those waters because they can be very
• 23:57
  great muddy. But I think sometimes culture
• 24:00
  can really ruin your faith where you can believe in culture more
• 24:04
  than you believe until hey, the more than you believe in the
• 24:07
  teachings of a solo law. Sometimes they will they they
• 24:11
  will not do a religious acts on one mission.
• 24:13
  Examples. Because they believe this
• 24:14
  culture is either the logic or Haram and it and it's more
• 24:17
  superior than was expected from you as a Muslim.
• 24:21
  So I don't know. I'm I'm not going to say I'm pro
• 24:22
  culture. I know you mean, I know.
• 24:24
  But it's not. It's not black and white like
• 24:26
  it's not pro or anti. It's like it's cultural acts
• 24:28
  will be beneficial or may not. The culture is beautiful.
• 24:31
  Yeah. I think as long as it's not you
• 24:32
  know, murking in. No.
• 24:34
  For example say like if you imagine.
• 24:36
  Yeah, in South Asian culture, yeah, yeah, for hundreds of
• 24:38
  years even like pre Islam entering.
• 24:42
  Well, in terms of in on mass, yeah, OK Like wearing the
• 24:45
  dupatta or wearing like a light hair covering is cultural.
• 24:48
  So whether you're a Hindu or Sikh or Muslim, you're still
• 24:51
  going to be covering an element of your hair, whether it's as an
• 24:53
  adornment or as a modesty kind of take.
• 24:55
  In the time of Rasola Law, right?
• 24:57
  Yeah, exactly. Pre Islamic Arabia.
• 24:59
  Yeah. So, like, that's cultural.
• 25:01
  And then you can transform that cultural practice into hijab and
• 25:05
  it's an easy transition because it's already existing.
• 25:07
  And that's great because your culture is facilitating that.
• 25:09
  Or it can be on the flip side, where people then view the new
• 25:12
  practice of religious practice once Islam's entered and then
• 25:15
  reverts back to the cultural practice of Oh yeah, yeah, I'll
• 25:18
  just cover my hair halfway. I don't want to make any
• 25:20
  judgments, but I'm saying like, you can go either way with that.
• 25:23
  Another example, if you're talking about like music and
• 25:26
  instruments, Kawali, yeah, Kawali is those who know drums
• 25:29
  and the flutes and all of that and you're doing thicker of a
• 25:31
  mamali or whatever it might be. Now culturally that might be
• 25:34
  accepted religiously or whatever, there might be
• 25:36
  question marks over it. You could apply this argument to
• 25:39
  various things, but there are things which are also
• 25:41
  behaviorally accepted culturally.
• 25:43
  Like for example, you know in, in, in again, I'm going to bring
• 25:46
  up South Asian culture but as Indians or Pakistanis like
• 25:49
  whether or not you're Muslim, the respect you give to your
• 25:52
  elders. The Marta bar we say like as in
• 25:54
  the the Makan that an elder has is Wajib.
• 25:58
  So whether you're Muslim or Sikh or Hindu or whatever, Jade.
• 26:01
  That's in line with Islamic values.
• 26:04
  So your grandmother, your grandfather, you stand up if
• 26:07
  they're in, they walk into the room if you know they have like
• 26:09
  the main seat in the didn't take the.
• 26:11
  Front of them, right. So culturally that's great.
• 26:14
  You know it doesn't clash of anything if it's in taste or
• 26:16
  Islamically. So it's it's like there are
• 26:19
  murky waters, you're right. And I think there are things
• 26:21
  which are like definitely pro or anti Shariah, but obviously
• 26:25
  there's there's so many things because also you could argue
• 26:27
  that Sharia is on the back of culture as well like from for
• 26:30
  example wearing the club, wearing in the club, covering
• 26:33
  your face is very much subject whether whether it's mubbah or
• 26:38
  halal or Haram or mustahab or wajib or hara.
• 26:40
  Whoever is also subject to the culture and where you're living
• 26:44
  and what environment you're in. Do you get me?
• 26:46
  It doesn't. It doesn't necessarily.
• 26:48
  The same rule doesn't have to apply like, you know, for
• 26:52
  everyone. It's not one rule for all.
• 26:54
  And you know, I I think a lot of things Islamically is also
• 26:57
  subject to where you are, what age you live in and what culture
• 26:59
  you're surrounded by. So I.
• 27:01
  Think also to add to I think like perhaps some of your
• 27:04
  grievance on this is like like our parents generation, God
• 27:10
  bless them, right? Pioneers came here, didn't speak
• 27:12
  the language right. Were treated with hostility and
• 27:15
  racism right. And.
• 27:18
  With barely any money in their own pockets, they put together
• 27:21
  Husseinians for us. They put together Mom bargas for
• 27:23
  us. That's not so.
• 27:24
  Like, God bless them, right? I mean.
• 27:27
  The arguably the form of religion that they themselves
• 27:32
  inherited was heavily culturally skewed, right?
• 27:36
  I E the religious principles were missing from it.
• 27:41
  It wasn't the case that what they were doing is Haram, right?
• 27:44
  It's not like any of our parents said, hey it's a mom, Hussein's
• 27:46
  Wafat. Let's do some crazy like no one,
• 27:49
  no one said any of that, right? But yeah, it's it's it's
• 27:52
  possible that during that era, and don't forget, especially
• 27:55
  with the the indoor pack region and and even actually the Middle
• 27:59
  East, like we've been like colonized, right?
• 28:03
  And our all of our principles or values were all kind of
• 28:06
  estranged by the white man. Right.
• 28:08
  Like, just that's just facts, right.
• 28:10
  By the British. Yeah.
• 28:11
  They they came and they, you know, classified us, oh, you're
• 28:14
  this. You're Sunny or Shia or Sufi,
• 28:15
  you're this, you're this, you're that type of that type of Sunni.
• 28:18
  And like basically, like they didn't have an issue with us
• 28:22
  being divided, right. It worked for them, just for for
• 28:24
  the administration, right. But it left us like, with just
• 28:28
  hollow. Yeah, like hollow identity,
• 28:30
  basically. And we're just left holding one
• 28:32
  too. Cultural practices.
• 28:35
  So anyways, forgive our grandparents and our parents.
• 28:37
  They came and many of them and I've experienced this myself too
• 28:41
  growing up just focused on the culture and the rituals right.
• 28:45
  And like there's no foundation for it.
• 28:47
  So a lot of our generation and I know that a lot of our listeners
• 28:50
  are going to listen to listen to this and resonate that.
• 28:52
  You go through your teenage phase, 1617 eighteen start
• 28:56
  questioning, right. You start listening to
• 28:58
  emergencies other than what your parents have listened to, right.
• 29:01
  You start hearing things that. Don't actually line up with what
• 29:05
  you've been doing this whole time.
• 29:06
  Then you start doubting these rituals.
• 29:08
  You start doubting the culture. And it's like, this is all just
• 29:10
  a cultural practice. This is a ritual.
• 29:12
  I don't need it. I don't need it.
• 29:13
  I'm going to intellectualize Imam Hussein.
• 29:15
  I'm going to intellectualize Islam, okay.
• 29:18
  And I think that that is a vital process.
• 29:20
  To be fair. I think it needs to happen,
• 29:22
  right. I think there's no choice is
• 29:24
  going to happen, right? Growing up and born in the in
• 29:27
  the West, have we made the question?
• 29:29
  Things. And I think questioning is very
• 29:30
  important part. And especially as you come to
• 29:32
  university then you really like triple down on that whole like
• 29:35
  questioning everything, questioning your identity,
• 29:37
  everything that your parents did.
• 29:38
  That's part and parcel of it. And I did that too, right.
• 29:42
  I'll sit there, you know, in my era of intellectualizing what
• 29:45
  I'm saying, sitting there in the majority and I'm like, I bet
• 29:48
  that didn't happen. I'll see an alarm.
• 29:50
  I'm like, oh, I'm not going to touch it.
• 29:51
  That's there's no reason to touch the alarm.
• 29:53
  Right. And I question all these things
• 29:55
  are being cynical, right. Some people get stuck there.
• 29:59
  Right. Some people get stuck there and
• 30:00
  think that that's like the way to be, right.
• 30:02
  You're just cynical. Hey, I don't need to cry.
• 30:04
  I can express my feelings like this.
• 30:06
  Like, and I'm. I'm not cooling them out.
• 30:09
  It is what it is, right? But when I had a kid, right?
• 30:14
  And I'm in this intellectual phase, right?
• 30:17
  And it's now Muharram. And I've got to tell this 2 year
• 30:20
  old, 3 year old what Muharram is.
• 30:24
  I can't do that without culture. Yeah.
• 30:26
  Yeah, you're right. I.
• 30:27
  Can't I can't do it without culture 100% right?
• 30:30
  Like what? What can I say?
• 30:31
  What is it That we all we remember what I was saying, OK
• 30:33
  What I was saying was this he died OK?
• 30:36
  Without. Culture will just become like a
• 30:37
  story. I don't mean to make it.
• 30:39
  You're right that you can't. You can't.
• 30:41
  You can't. You can't articulate your
• 30:44
  intellectualization. As a diary, the reason why me,
• 30:47
  you, him, him. Everyone.
• 30:49
  So 22 million people that arrived to Karbala is we grew up
• 30:52
  with the culture of Azadari. The smell of Azerbatti.
• 30:57
  Right. Wood, right.
• 30:58
  The smell of certain foods being cooked, right.
• 31:03
  The feeling of these fabrics, right.
• 31:06
  The the colors of the walls, seeing that, seeing our parents
• 31:09
  wearing black, $0.05, right. Our parents putting on these
• 31:11
  bandanas saying, yeah, Hussein on my head, that's culture.
• 31:15
  But that's what bring the whole thing in life to us, it's.
• 31:17
  Similar to worship, yeah. It's like Allah will only be a
• 31:21
  name, but we have to do more. We have to pray, we have to
• 31:24
  pass. You know, we've got to dress in
• 31:25
  a certain way, we've got to do certain acts, we've got to
• 31:27
  worship in a particular way. Similar to the culture.
• 31:30
  That's what connects you to Mark Hussein, yeah.
• 31:32
  Yeah, these acts connected to a lost planet I.
• 31:34
  Like that. I like that.
• 31:35
  I know those those are those are obligations so far, right?
• 31:37
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:38
  Yeah. But mom was saying and they're
• 31:40
  so vast and and and this is where like she is and becomes
• 31:43
  really interesting compared to like other other what they call
• 31:47
  it scores of thought is that we have like these human stories
• 31:52
  that we can connect to. Right.
• 31:55
  And yeah, like they might dismiss all you think they're
• 31:57
  superheroes. Yeah, dude, like a boss is a
• 31:59
  superhero. Like he's like, you listen to
• 32:01
  his story. He's my superhero.
• 32:03
  Growing up, do you get what I mean?
• 32:04
  Right. So it's like, I know how have
• 32:07
  like a template of a man that I want to that I want to be like
• 32:11
  an archetype, right. We see for Imam Ali.
• 32:14
  And as of the boss, Imam was saying Imam Hudson, all their
• 32:18
  moms, we see this like these stories and then the challenges
• 32:21
  they went through. And also how they culturally
• 32:23
  express themselves doing certain things.
• 32:26
  So you know having that in in our childhood I think like is
• 32:33
  what glues that elevate to our heart.
• 32:35
  And in Charlotte, like I think that we're going to pass this
• 32:39
  onto onto the next generation. Intellectualizing has its place
• 32:44
  in your late teens, 20s, right. But I advise any brothers and
• 32:49
  sisters listening to it. Like pray as soon as you can't
• 32:52
  just get out of it because you you just become cynical and like
• 32:56
  and bro, to be honest, in some ways it might harden the heart.
• 33:00
  And like you said, we all went through that process and that
• 33:02
  the doubting phase or or like I think the word intellectualizing
• 33:07
  is probably the perfect word for it because you're trying to find
• 33:10
  rationale behind everything. And and there is a rationale.
• 33:14
  There is a rationale. There is a rationale 100%.
• 33:16
  But but sometimes, you know there's different ways to reach
• 33:18
  the top of the mountain. And when you, especially when
• 33:20
  you talk about parenthood like for me, I'm at a stage where my
• 33:23
  son Hamdulah he's like approaching 2 years old and now
• 33:26
  he's he's just had his first Maharm and he's the first proper
• 33:29
  Maharm where he's like getting the vibes.
• 33:31
  So here's Martham. He knows I've got to hit my
• 33:34
  chest and he's, you know, he sees the Black Flag puts it say
• 33:36
  ya Hussein, for example. And in my mind, it's like the
• 33:40
  symbolism for a young child is very important because they will
• 33:43
  identify religion by sound, touch, smell, taste, all of that
• 33:47
  stuff. They will, they will like and
• 33:49
  it's important to a degree, but they'll categorize certain
• 33:53
  sensations with certain emotions.
• 33:55
  You get me and that's super important and you don't, you
• 33:58
  don't really realize it until you become a parent.
• 34:00
  And I'm very early in that process with my two kids.
• 34:03
  But it's it's true. Are there any, you know, us all
• 34:07
  being parents now? Are there any cultures that we
• 34:09
  can say our parents or our grandparents had that came to us
• 34:13
  that we wouldn't pass down to our Yeah, we wouldn't, wouldn't.
• 34:15
  Wouldn't That's a sticky one. So I go first gone.
• 34:19
  So my dad, I love you Dad, right?
• 34:23
  He he made me walk underneath the horse's legs.
• 34:27
  And so, like in Pakistan, in Pakistani culture, we decorate
• 34:31
  an actual White Horse as well. Jenna, right?
• 34:36
  And and to be honest with you, that's a powerful sight, right?
• 34:39
  Especially when it's decorated really well.
• 34:40
  It, it really brings a story home, right, of Imam Hussein,
• 34:44
  the Zojana arriving without the writer, right?
• 34:47
  Like it's a big part of like the story that we tell each other in
• 34:51
  in in Mahara. But like there was this thing
• 34:56
  where he said go through Zojana's legs and literally,
• 34:59
  like, I make door right and whatever the way you make will
• 35:02
  get answered right. Now, obviously this horse in two
• 35:05
  Inc was a bit of a, you know, it was a bit volatile.
• 35:08
  It was a bit dangerous likely. I think it kicked in the head,
• 35:10
  yeah. But yeah, it could have
• 35:12
  happened, right. So obviously I'm not, I'm not
• 35:14
  going to pass that down to my kid, Right.
• 35:16
  But like for example, showing reverence to islands and
• 35:19
  decoration and any sort of like sign of azadari, right.
• 35:23
  I'll do you will. It's a horse look at it.
• 35:26
  Think and reflect about the the tragedy of mom saying for sure,
• 35:29
  do I need to go and actually touch it?
• 35:32
  Probably not. Can I go and touch it and stroke
• 35:34
  it and imagine I'm stroking Zuljana?
• 35:37
  Probably yes. But then when you start merging
• 35:39
  it like or conflating it with an actual religious principle like
• 35:42
  as in the means of Chaffars and Waseela.
• 35:44
  Yeah, then, then it. Then it gets a mistake.
• 35:47
  You mean because then what you might assign a theological
• 35:50
  principle to like a cultural practice?
• 35:53
  Exactly Because then that's there's there's overlapping
• 35:55
  which may, should, may not be the right thing to take place.
• 35:57
  That's a good one to be honest. I think is is different because
• 36:00
  obviously as like as a our culture inherently is Western.
• 36:05
  Do you see what I mean? So a lot of our cultural
• 36:07
  practices are are I don't say it like this, but are watered down
• 36:12
  Pakistani, Indian practices, do you know what I mean?
• 36:14
  So there's another thing we see it but we don't do it or we
• 36:16
  don't really have it in our centers growing up.
• 36:20
  But the more the more like I don't say in a in a rude way but
• 36:24
  the the the less extravagant or the less like loud ones so that
• 36:28
  I limbs as examples versus as well I limbs and stuff we will.
• 36:31
  But generally speaking, I think for me I don't have that many or
• 36:34
  I haven't come across any so far that I wouldn't pass on.
• 36:37
  But some of the things I would pass on bro, there's several one
• 36:40
  and like I said earlier like the behavioral stuff culture is very
• 36:43
  important. And in our culture we do a lot
• 36:46
  of things like Kundanias stuff like proper cultural.
• 36:49
  Yeah. But it's amazing and you have
• 36:51
  like the the, the Drulas and like basically the the you have
• 36:57
  like a metal swing for Hazra. And like the whole idea is, is
• 37:01
  that these things bring you back to Kadabala.
• 37:03
  If you're talking about Kadabala, you know and those
• 37:05
  things are are very important I think symbolically to take you
• 37:08
  towards the Imlm Salaam and ultimately to our last point
• 37:11
  out. So yeah, it's a very important
• 37:13
  one. I want to kind of take the
• 37:14
  conversation a bit further. OK.
• 37:16
  All right. I wanted to at least, yeah, go
• 37:18
  on. This is the because we've been
• 37:20
  talking a lot about our culture. OK, like you mentioned the
• 37:23
  Zojanar, you mentioned alams as an example.
• 37:26
  I don't have one specific as a diary to say.
• 37:29
  I wouldn't pass down but one mindsets I wouldn't pass down or
• 37:33
  allow to reach my children and Charlotte, my children's
• 37:36
  children. It's the mindset of
• 37:38
  disrespecting other people's culture or disrespecting or
• 37:42
  belittling, you know, other people's practices of what
• 37:44
  connects them to you. Mama Hussein, for example, those
• 37:47
  are things know we need to learn, respect, value, unite and
• 37:50
  understand because ultimately it's cultural practice.
• 37:53
  It's not Islam completely. They are methods and ways to
• 37:56
  take you towards the loss of Pano Matala and closer to Mama
• 37:59
  Hussein. But you don't have to do it.
• 38:00
  Yeah, you don't have to agree with it.
• 38:02
  You can have a whole different opinion.
• 38:04
  You only bro, you do not need to agree.
• 38:06
  It's not going to take you to. On fire and Charlotte will take
• 38:09
  you to German. That's that's the mindset that
• 38:11
  we need. And I think marrying outside
• 38:13
  your culture opens your mind up to these things.
• 38:15
  You look at my little Salaam. I say that with passion, by the
• 38:18
  way. Because passion came across.
• 38:20
  When I when I grew up, the friends I have now, if I were
• 38:25
  friends with them when I was young, I love it.
• 38:28
  I'm being very honest and I only understood that they are like me
• 38:32
  once I got to mix with them. We all thought, you know, you
• 38:36
  think different but you're going to hell, but but don't go to
• 38:38
  this guy's center or, you know, don't go do nothing.
• 38:41
  And that and that Hussein here, like these sort of things was
• 38:44
  like, we now I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 38:46
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are all lovers of Imam
• 38:49
  Hussein. These are all sheet of I live in
• 38:51
  I. Think we're recognizing where we
• 38:54
  are? Like if you zoom out on a
• 38:56
  timeline, right? And see where we are as a people
• 38:58
  that have gone through various stages of oppression and power,
• 39:01
  So on and so forth. Where we are, where we are right
• 39:04
  now, geopolitically speaking, in terms of power, also culturally
• 39:08
  is is phenomenal, right? We've got Majal is running in
• 39:12
  every single language around the world, right?
• 39:15
  We've got young guys picking up the mantle of carrying on the
• 39:20
  tradition of Latmiya. And again, different languages,
• 39:22
  different styles, so on and so forth.
• 39:25
  And we've given born to this, like this, this pilgrimage that
• 39:29
  we call it now, right where we go.
• 39:32
  And we like walk towards Imam Hussein.
• 39:36
  And I was, you know, like last Muharram.
• 39:38
  I remember just saying that I'm like in fact this Muharram.
• 39:40
  I said to my I said to my door, I said, Amirah, you realize like
• 39:44
  what we do as Hussein is no one in the world does.
• 39:48
  We gather with excitement and anticipation to mourn and cry
• 39:53
  and to beat our chest, right. Like that's no, nothing in the
• 39:58
  world does that, that that's insane.
• 40:00
  Like, what do you mean that's what you do?
• 40:02
  And we do it. We were so happy to do it.
• 40:03
  And we feel so good when we're able to cry so much, right.
• 40:07
  Like no other culture in the world allows this.
• 40:09
  No other, like, no other faith allows this.
• 40:13
  And so I honestly like I, I, I get kind of annoyed when I had
• 40:17
  this like, pessimistic kind of outlook on our community like,
• 40:20
  oh this is not working. We're not doing this.
• 40:21
  We're not united, brother. And that brother.
• 40:23
  This is all, it's all going to plan.
• 40:25
  We're, we're fine. You know what I mean?
• 40:28
  Like, we're good, right? Like, because we don't need to
• 40:30
  have this, like, pessimistic view that, like, all our
• 40:33
  community's going to hell. And yes, there's ignorance.
• 40:36
  Yes, there's areas of that can be improved, but they're
• 40:39
  improving. But the problem is, is that
• 40:41
  we're impatient. We want this all to happen right
• 40:42
  now. But again, zoom out on the
• 40:44
  timeline of the history of, of lovers of that debate.
• 40:47
  Look where we are right now. Like, we should be so proud of
• 40:49
  ourselves 10 years ago. They came for us, right?
• 40:52
  They came for us in our country. They came for us in Syria.
• 40:54
  They came for us in Iraq, right? We ate them up.
• 40:58
  Yeah, I'm going to say that straight.
• 41:01
  We, you know, cleared cleared them nicely, right?
• 41:04
  And now even they're looking at it like, okay, we can't try that
• 41:06
  tactic with them, right? We can't try that.
• 41:08
  We can't break them totally right.
• 41:10
  We can't break them politically, right?
• 41:12
  We can't break them with military we're good.
• 41:15
  Humble love, we've got this love of the same.
• 41:17
  And the love of the same is is enough.
• 41:18
  To unbreak enough indestructible and like you said, they're
• 41:21
  zooming out on the timeline like there's been somewhat of a
• 41:23
  standstill when it comes to migration for hundreds of years,
• 41:28
  if not thousands until there's like globalized era we've lived
• 41:32
  in in the last 100 odd years or even in last 50 odd years.
• 41:36
  And we're we're talking about the migration from the East to
• 41:38
  the West specifically speaking. And just not just the migration
• 41:42
  geographically, but also like you're saying the Cultural
• 41:45
  Revolution, the information age we live in now.
• 41:48
  Like you talked about our grandparents and like their
• 41:51
  their their adherence to cultural practices.
• 41:54
  The differences for and you said like they were heavily impacted
• 41:57
  by their cultural practices. I think we are too.
• 41:59
  It's just our cultural practices are different Western, Shia or
• 42:02
  British. But the difference is, is we.
• 42:04
  Because we have such access to information.
• 42:06
  Yeah, we have access to information.
• 42:09
  So kind of like we're also searching at the same rate that
• 42:13
  we're, we're practicing. Do you get what I mean?
• 42:15
  Yeah. Whereas for for example, 200
• 42:17
  years ago in Lucknow, somewhere around in India for example, the
• 42:21
  access, the information drip down would be a result of
• 42:25
  scholars coming from different parts of the world house to
• 42:28
  visit, you know, the subcontinent and then sharing
• 42:31
  information that they heard from their teachers, you know when
• 42:33
  they left their houses three months ago by foot.
• 42:36
  Do you know what I mean? Now it's so much more rapid and
• 42:39
  the the the search for information is so much more
• 42:41
  clear. And that's why you've got like
• 42:42
  the cynicism that you're mentioning is because people are
• 42:45
  finding out information quicker, maybe prematurely and maybe too
• 42:49
  much information too fast and not in the right state of mind
• 42:52
  to consume that information. And then getting caught in the
• 42:54
  trap of of that cynicism or pesticism that you don't
• 42:57
  mention. And quickly on the culture thing
• 43:01
  that I in my living Masalam set the standard.
• 43:05
  By marrying outside of their culture.
• 43:07
  And you talk about, I mean, I'm not Manin, I let his up until
• 43:10
  the moment of our time. I do a lot of other fans, just
• 43:13
  Sharif and the cultural like fluidity that they had, whether
• 43:20
  it's like ethnically or geographically, where they're
• 43:23
  based, who they're married, how they practiced, who they were,
• 43:25
  who their companions were. Like you know, I was hearing a
• 43:28
  lecture yesterday. About some of the companions of
• 43:31
  amongst Jadly Islam who are from Kabul.
• 43:33
  And then you hear about other companions who are from Africa,
• 43:36
  other companions who are from India.
• 43:37
  Sopan a law like that was back then.
• 43:39
  And the Imam set the standard by by opening the borders up
• 43:42
  basically, and not even allowing there to be a border in place
• 43:45
  over the olema. So I want to kind of like move
• 43:48
  the conversation forward into narrative and nuance because I
• 43:51
  know this is something you feel passionately about.
• 43:54
  How do you feel we sit at the moment when it comes to the
• 43:56
  level of conversation we have? In our communities, both in
• 44:00
  inner circles and in vaginas, generally speaking, because
• 44:02
  we're a community, that's we talk a lot.
• 44:05
  We sit around the table like this and we talk between
• 44:07
  ourselves. But generally speaking, our
• 44:09
  level of conversation may or may not be, you could argue, led by
• 44:13
  a handful of scholars or moraja or whatever you, you know,
• 44:17
  whichever kind of category you want to put people in.
• 44:19
  But do they kind of set the precedent?
• 44:21
  And are we following that culture?
• 44:23
  Do you see what I mean? I kind of get what you mean and
• 44:28
  and obviously like I want to say that our Marge Marrager are
• 44:32
  doing a great job and that system is is holding well for
• 44:37
  now, right. I'm not of the mindset that says
• 44:42
  we should not question how it's conducted and how the whole
• 44:45
  operation works. I I do feel like we have a right
• 44:49
  to for people to ask questions, right for people to even suggest
• 44:53
  alternative ways of practicing the concept of taklid, right?
• 45:00
  That that's just like cars on the table, right?
• 45:04
  But basically, like, I think, I think what's disheartening is
• 45:08
  that whatever system is that we do have right now is not as
• 45:13
  effective as it could be in terms of sharing the wisdom and
• 45:17
  knowledge of the Elevate and the 12 imams to to a mainstream
• 45:23
  discourse right now. You could argue that even even
• 45:28
  if we were able to, they would not allow us to share our views,
• 45:33
  right. And and honestly, those
• 45:35
  conspiracies a lot of times are true.
• 45:37
  They do silence certain people because they just don't want
• 45:39
  that angle to come out right. But a big part of it is really
• 45:44
  down to like us, just basically we're just talking to ourselves
• 45:48
  all the time, like preaching to the choir.
• 45:49
  You know, like, how many times have you gone to imagine this
• 45:52
  and and and it's basically just Fazil of the herbait, right?
• 45:56
  Which obviously is amazing, right?
• 45:59
  But it's like you've already heard that.
• 46:02
  But I'm going to disagree with you strongly on that, man.
• 46:04
  Go ahead. I'm sorry.
• 46:05
  I'm sorry. I I I feel that we are where we
• 46:09
  are because of the constant in your face repetition of favail
• 46:14
  and Mossad for thousands of years.
• 46:15
  You know this Maharama went to a mud list.
• 46:17
  And it was one of the early nights and it was Masaib of
• 46:21
  Hazard Muslim in Islam. I had a friend with me who
• 46:26
  doesn't who's a Shia, he's, you know, he's a grown man, does not
• 46:30
  know the Masaib of Hazard Muslim.
• 46:32
  He came with me to the Muslims and the scholar on the member
• 46:36
  started the Masaib and he said, oh, we all know the story.
• 46:41
  Mam Hussein said Muslims to cut up on the earth to Kulfa.
• 46:44
  And you know the rest of the story.
• 46:46
  And then he was thrown off the building.
• 46:47
  Slama lahi aleah, slama lahi aleah.
• 46:49
  And I was thinking, like, bro, you can't skip out the whole
• 46:53
  mosaic because the repetitioner for violin mosaic is so critical
• 46:56
  to keeping the message alive. Like just how we continuously
• 46:59
  for generations will name our kids the same names for
• 47:01
  thousands of years. Because I don't know, I don't
• 47:04
  want to go to ramble. But basically, I feel like I
• 47:06
  know what you mean, but you might feel like it's a bit
• 47:09
  stagnant. Maybe it's okay.
• 47:11
  So maybe I phrased it incorrectly.
• 47:12
  Like, just to be clear, I'm not against Fazal of the herb.
• 47:16
  Just put down the record. He's not just focusing on that
• 47:19
  and solely not even that, not even that.
• 47:21
  I should have phrased it better where I mean, it's like down
• 47:24
  from a defensive position, right?
• 47:27
  We're right. They're wrong.
• 47:30
  Right. Who's there?
• 47:31
  They right. Referring to our brothers in
• 47:35
  Hassan now, right. And it's this constant, kind of
• 47:38
  like, you can almost call it like an inferiority complex,
• 47:41
  right, of saying look, look, look at, look at what the
• 47:44
  elevator did, right. Why don't they believe in them,
• 47:47
  right? Well, it's like it's just kind
• 47:50
  of like comparison with the other, right, rather than
• 47:52
  focusing on just just presenting your facts, right?
• 47:55
  Yeah. So, like, I'm a big believer in
• 47:57
  just new ones, right? And balance, right.
• 48:00
  It's not helpful when you're always trying to pitch your
• 48:04
  crowd into a certain mindset, Your mindset.
• 48:08
  I, the person, the pulpit is trying to get them to think what
• 48:11
  they're saying is the correct way.
• 48:12
  And the only way. Yeah.
• 48:14
  And any other view is just like should just be like, it's not
• 48:18
  even like disregarded. It's like a mocker, right?
• 48:21
  You've you've seen that we mock other viewpoints, right?
• 48:24
  So even we do this amongst sheers ourselves, right?
• 48:27
  When there's someone who believes in theory X, right,
• 48:31
  they all go on the member and say theory X is correct.
• 48:33
  And anyone that believes in theory, why, We have to question
• 48:35
  if they're sincere about their love for that debate, right?
• 48:38
  You've you've heard these things, right?
• 48:40
  And it's like at some point that's not really helpful
• 48:43
  because it's confusing. Well, it's confusing because now
• 48:46
  for example, let's say you're you're someone who's sat in that
• 48:49
  lecture and you're dabbling with the other idea, right?
• 48:52
  And now this person comes and presents and just shuts it down.
• 48:56
  That's going to get your conspiracy brain kicking in when
• 48:58
  you're a young. You're a young person thinking,
• 49:00
  oh they're alright. I saw a YouTube channel said
• 49:03
  they're trying to silence this viewpoint.
• 49:04
  Then you go down that rabbit hole even further, right?
• 49:07
  We don't embrace like, the differences, just just simply
• 49:10
  stay. Like, you've got to make a
• 49:11
  point, right? Just simply acknowledge the
• 49:15
  other perspectives that exist on it like that.
• 49:17
  You know, when it when it comes to like, I think, I think I will
• 49:20
  call them sensitive matters, yeah, because some people can
• 49:23
  adhere to them, some people can. How far away from that?
• 49:25
  Yeah. But I think what is nice, I
• 49:27
  think if if our speakers, our lecturers and you know, our
• 49:30
  onoma and scholars on the pulpit, when they want to give a
• 49:33
  viewpoint, they shouldn't just give their own viewpoint.
• 49:35
  Yeah, they should give both viewpoints and then share their
• 49:38
  opinion. That's it.
• 49:39
  Unless you're the manager, for example, it's not unless you're
• 49:41
  the. That's what I'm saying.
• 49:42
  It's not hard, right? But for some reason they've made
• 49:46
  it really difficult. And then when we inherit this
• 49:49
  knowledge from them, yeah, right.
• 49:51
  Depending on you know our age, right?
• 49:54
  Our hormones will kick up when we start having fights on social
• 49:57
  media, but the clock. Will polarize, right?
• 49:59
  Because all we've been given is plans to be the other other lot
• 50:02
  with after the measurements, after the measurements, right
• 50:04
  after mother, after mother. I think you have to.
• 50:07
  Context is important because otherwise you will polarize and
• 50:10
  will become an ignorant population.
• 50:11
  Exactly. We will become knowingly
• 50:13
  ignorant once we know that there are other opinions, but we
• 50:16
  don't. A research.
• 50:18
  Should we respect every opinion, even those acknowledge it's
• 50:23
  acknowledge that? It's acknowledging, yeah, don't
• 50:25
  say respect. I don't.
• 50:26
  I don't believe in respecting other opinions.
• 50:27
  I don't. No, bro, it's it's.
• 50:29
  I respect your right to have. I respect your right.
• 50:31
  So, for example, if someone does not believe in the burning of
• 50:34
  the door of, say, the Fatim to Zahara, then I might not respect
• 50:40
  that opinion, but I respect their right to come to a
• 50:43
  conclusion because. We've but we bask in the glory
• 50:46
  of information sharing now and we only are able to have
• 50:49
  dialogue at this day and age because for thousands of years
• 50:52
  we've been at Mud Hub which encourages discussion and
• 50:55
  dialogue and you know conversation and and that's so
• 50:58
  critical to where we are because we are we pride ourselves on
• 51:01
  being at the school of thought which which is which is filled
• 51:04
  with knowledge and academia and we come from a school of Wakulla
• 51:09
  and the whole institution of of scholars and whatnot like that's
• 51:12
  so deep rooted in our culture. Islamically, for for several 100
• 51:17
  years like that, that's got to remain.
• 51:19
  Like the minute we drift away from that, there's a problem
• 51:23
  there and you either polarize or you'll become.
• 51:25
  You'll become so extremist that you'll turn to like ignorant
• 51:29
  people online themselves who will basically exploit that
• 51:34
  desire and pursuit of knowledge, but also know that people are
• 51:36
  gullible, like these youtube.org guys, basically, who exploit
• 51:41
  young, vulnerable Muslim men. And basically say this is a hard
• 51:46
  these forgave hardline, these are opinions that you have to
• 51:48
  consume Anything other than this is outside the fault of Islam
• 51:51
  like and that's how that's why we have such a a polarized
• 51:54
  audience because like you said for for a long time we've we've
• 51:58
  like had this desire to learn more.
• 52:00
  You go through the asking age, the information seeking age, and
• 52:03
  then if you're exposed to the wrong information, which is very
• 52:06
  easily palatable in this day and especially tick tock in that
• 52:09
  then. You come out of it is very hard
• 52:11
  to basically come out of out of the unscathed.
• 52:14
  So I remember there's a picking up actually on on the the
• 52:17
  tragedy of being Fatima, right. Because that's so contentious.
• 52:21
  Right. It's so like sensitive.
• 52:23
  Yeah. And delicate to approach it.
• 52:25
  Right. Especially if you're trying to
• 52:27
  like be sensitive of Alison as like revered leaders, right.
• 52:31
  OK. But I had a goal like I think
• 52:35
  last year or two years ago on the Muslim vibe, right?
• 52:39
  And basically create this person.
• 52:40
  I was like, OK, I'm going to try and do this from a nuance
• 52:43
  perspective, right? And all I did was simply state
• 52:48
  that she has believed this, Sony's believe this, some Sony's
• 52:53
  believe this, some she's believe that, right?
• 52:56
  It's a very simple approach to like this is what she's believe,
• 52:59
  right? And because of that, so firstly,
• 53:03
  that's what she's believe. This is what Sony's believe, but
• 53:05
  because of what she is believed, they then do Latin on the 1st 3
• 53:08
  caliphs as a result of that thing happening, right?
• 53:11
  So they disagree with that because they revet them, right?
• 53:14
  There you go, this is nice and nice and answered for everyone.
• 53:17
  How you want to take it, you take it back, take it, take it
• 53:19
  like shed, so like both sides. So The thing is, is that, look,
• 53:21
  you want to appeal to even the lowest common denominator,
• 53:24
  right. So I sell if you can read that
• 53:26
  right. I think there's not.
• 53:28
  They can't refute it. Yeah.
• 53:32
  If you, if you simply speak in a nuanced and balanced way, you're
• 53:34
  irrefutable because you're not, like, you're not making a point,
• 53:37
  you're just simply stating what it is, right.
• 53:39
  So if I say, for example, like, you know, the the, the concept
• 53:42
  of what I have to do with my belief in what I have to do is
• 53:46
  this. Some people believe this, some
• 53:49
  people believe that and some people believe this.
• 53:52
  Now if you got that from the member, that's much more
• 53:55
  wholesome, right? Because now you're not left like
• 53:58
  with this weird confusion where it's like, oh, actually I spoke
• 54:01
  to another scholar and he said that.
• 54:02
  So is that a scholar or monophic?
• 54:04
  Is that scholar like some hypocrite?
• 54:05
  What's going on? Right.
• 54:07
  It just makes it like a lot more like just to just to stop trying
• 54:12
  to pitch people just to see what needs to be said.
• 54:14
  So I think there's a responsibility that falls on the
• 54:16
  ones who are sharing their information, whether it's like
• 54:18
  content granted creators on Instagram and organizations and
• 54:21
  scholars, but also equally the responsibility on us to
• 54:25
  understand how to consume. Yeah, like we can consume
• 54:28
  information, but. Like understanding nuance is a
• 54:31
  big part of it, yeah. So when you hear information
• 54:33
  filtering that information through through like a process
• 54:36
  you have internally and knowing that this will either come from
• 54:40
  a place like of of like bias or allegiance or whatever it might
• 54:44
  be and then maybe searching for an alternative not for the sake
• 54:47
  of reputation and that takes time.
• 54:49
  Though it does and it's not like a quick process.
• 54:51
  Yeah, it's not and it's not really a process we learn at a
• 54:54
  young age. Yeah, obviously we we are born
• 54:56
  and raised an education system in the in the UK which is.
• 55:00
  A BC happened and basically this is our opinion of it, secular
• 55:05
  opinion of it. For example, World War 2, this
• 55:07
  is what you're taught XYZ. Do you know what I mean?
• 55:09
  For example. So like that process of
• 55:12
  digesting information in a new way is not really taught to us.
• 55:16
  Do you get me? Yeah.
• 55:17
  Something which you've got discovered on our agenda.
• 55:19
  Yeah, we have to raise our standards as well.
• 55:21
  Like, it actually reminds me of like, something quite upset
• 55:25
  someone, something this some upsetting.
• 55:28
  Someone said to me, they're like, the Geoffrey School is and
• 55:33
  should be elitist, right? And I'm like, automate.
• 55:38
  That sounds a bit much, right? But basically what he was saying
• 55:41
  was was like, even back in the day, like to be one of the mom,
• 55:45
  Jeffrey's Celtic students, you could have just, like, walked
• 55:48
  into his classroom, right? There was certain character
• 55:51
  checks, for example, like, you know, like they were their mom
• 55:54
  wanted to know, like, are you seriously ready for.
• 55:56
  I'm about to drop on you, right. You got to be of a certain
• 55:59
  caliber, right. And in the same way like Alma
• 56:03
  Jalis now should raise the standard right where year maybe
• 56:08
  the bottom 20% might struggle to kind of like keep up with it.
• 56:12
  But then that's a good pressure to have.
• 56:14
  Yeah, I agree, right. That's a good pressure to that.
• 56:16
  Should aspire to know what. There are times.
• 56:18
  Sorry bro, I'm interrupting you a lot.
• 56:20
  There are times where it's not the bottom 20%.
• 56:24
  It's either the bomb 80% or it's the bottom 2%, You know what I
• 56:28
  mean? Well, either you're talking
• 56:29
  about something so advanced well above, like you might talk about
• 56:32
  a concept which is studying the house and you literally start to
• 56:35
  study after years to seven or fourteen.
• 56:37
  Yeah, about carriage. And you're bringing these ideas
• 56:39
  to laymen or like Roadmen in the UK and like it's a bit baffling
• 56:44
  to most people. But when a lot of people in this
• 56:46
  day and age will struggle to press all that and struggle to
• 56:48
  make some of the basic stuff, no, I agree.
• 56:50
  Do you know what I'm saying? But at the same time, like it is
• 56:53
  important to, I was talking more about the quality of the
• 56:55
  quality. It's not the subject because
• 56:56
  subject. I don't believe that members
• 56:58
  should be going so advanced, right.
• 57:00
  Like, obviously if you've got like a mixed audience that's not
• 57:03
  fair, right. That's just not right to do
• 57:05
  that. Yeah.
• 57:06
  And even I think we've got like had these from their moms they
• 57:09
  say something to the effect of don't speak to people of that
• 57:12
  which they're not ready to comprehend, right.
• 57:14
  Like that's not fair. I mean, it's not a right thing
• 57:15
  to do, right? So I'm thinking I'm talking more
• 57:19
  about the quality of how we are presenting ourselves.
• 57:22
  I see. And the quality, for example,
• 57:24
  trusting your audience to tell them, hey, by the way, Sunnis
• 57:28
  disagree and their opinion, is this right or actually there are
• 57:31
  some merger that allow this thing that I've just said is
• 57:34
  very bad, right? But there are actually some
• 57:36
  merger that allow it, right? Or like, hey, by the way, the
• 57:40
  the, you know, authenticity of this thing is not like 100%,
• 57:44
  just so you know. Right.
• 57:46
  We should be doing that, right? Like as in for example.
• 57:48
  And I I don't want to like compare ourselves to like like
• 57:53
  our Sunny Brothers too much. But like in a lot of the
• 57:56
  lectures, they will reference the Quran verse that they're
• 57:58
  talking about and they will reference the Hadif they're
• 58:00
  talking about whilst they're saying it, right.
• 58:03
  We just drop hadif and the audience is expected to just
• 58:06
  like accept it, right. Whereas we do not have even the
• 58:09
  same criteria of like authenticating.
• 58:11
  So in hadif, right? Yeah.
• 58:13
  So at least give your audience something that they can go and
• 58:17
  follow up with, right? Like, I feel like, for example,
• 58:19
  it should be a standard Western practice.
• 58:21
  Maybe we can introduce it as part of the culture.
• 58:22
  Is that after much list there's handouts, right?
• 58:25
  Or like some sort of screen or something like this that we can
• 58:27
  set up with references from the lecture, Do you know what I
• 58:29
  mean? So like that so that you're
• 58:31
  empowering your the audience rather than just treating them
• 58:34
  as like hey listen to what I'm saying now walk out and believe
• 58:37
  what I said right, We should. There should be that process of
• 58:41
  OK, now go digest this information, go research about
• 58:43
  it, learn about the different perspectives.
• 58:45
  See where you arrive right. If it's the truth, if it's the
• 58:49
  truth that we have as she is right and we believe that and
• 58:52
  that Iran Jafar Sadik's wisdom and teachings of his school of
• 58:56
  thought is is pristine, then we should have absolutely no issue
• 59:00
  talking about ulterior viewpoints.
• 59:02
  We should not illogical to say like we should.
• 59:06
  Should be comfortable to be more than comfortable.
• 59:08
  Like, yeah, this is what Buddhists do.
• 59:10
  This is. What?
• 59:10
  And I like the point where you said, for example, we should
• 59:13
  share what our brothers had a son or jamaya, what their
• 59:15
  opinion is, for example, when it comes to, you know, I believe we
• 59:18
  have, for example. Because that's nice.
• 59:20
  That can affirm your belief even greater that you can find it
• 59:22
  there, for example. Yeah.
• 59:24
  So it's nice. And I just want to mention one
• 59:26
  thing. Sometimes we hear a hadith and
• 59:29
  we're like, you know, where did we hear this?
• 59:31
  Where are we going to find this? Yeah.
• 59:33
  Sometimes we even have some scholars, Male, Lord bless them.
• 59:35
  They say, oh, this hadith is weak.
• 59:36
  Yeah. One day I said the hadith is
• 59:38
  weak. You're thinking, OK, the this,
• 59:40
  this hadith means it's nonsense. Yeah, yeah bro, it just doesn't
• 59:43
  mean there's enough. Yeah, yeah, you know it's not.
• 59:46
  But Awata, how do I translate my tawata?
• 59:48
  And English is a bit. Like a baffler, like.
• 59:51
  What's the world you're? Not gonna find the 100 hadif
• 59:53
  saying it. Maybe you're gonna find it
• 59:54
  doesn't have a blue check next to it.
• 59:56
  Yeah, basically. Doesn't have the Ellen Musks.
• 59:58
  Not verify, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, on the X platform, but
• 1:00:00
  doesn't mean it doesn't exist, yeah.
• 1:00:02
  Exactly and. Sometimes when when we enter
• 1:00:05
  this wall, that's why it's important.
• 1:00:06
  Like you said, they should share after the lecture.
• 1:00:09
  Sometimes we we can hit OK, there's no we this is a week, A
• 1:00:11
  week Hadi for example. Or we only find this in a
• 1:00:13
  coffee, but we don't find it in the heart.
• 1:00:15
  Or that confuses you, you understand.
• 1:00:17
  But once you have these references with you once it's
• 1:00:20
  normalized, right? Yes, once this kind of once this
• 1:00:23
  once it's normalized that Moana will say okay, this is actually
• 1:00:26
  a weak this is legit, this is this.
• 1:00:29
  And maybe even elaborate from time to time as to what he means
• 1:00:32
  when he says weak. Right.
• 1:00:34
  Like if we understand how how our religion because right now
• 1:00:36
  what's happening. Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  Is our kids are going on Twitter right after listening to a
• 1:00:40
  couple of lectures. Going out for a fight.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah. And getting ripped apart.
• 1:00:45
  I mean, you've seen 100% since the situation.
• 1:00:48
  Like, it's not like back in the day.
• 1:00:49
  The sheer chat day is a standard, kind of like back and
• 1:00:53
  forth right now. It's advanced.
• 1:00:54
  These guys have studied our books now, right?
• 1:00:57
  So these young, you've seen, right, talking about these guys,
• 1:01:00
  they've gone. They've gone and studied our
• 1:01:02
  books, right? They're ripping apart our
• 1:01:03
  original and all this stuff like that.
• 1:01:05
  And that's OK, right? Because our method of
• 1:01:08
  understanding is different to their method, right?
• 1:01:11
  Well, if we're not told that right and we haphazardly engage
• 1:01:16
  in debates, we're going to look silly.
• 1:01:17
  No, you need to be equipped with your knowledge on how to do you
• 1:01:20
  even it takes honesty to go. It does and it takes.
• 1:01:22
  It takes like humility as well because you got to bring
• 1:01:25
  yourself down to a point where you're like maybe I need to know
• 1:01:27
  more or maybe I don't know enough or maybe my viewpoint is
• 1:01:30
  not the correct or maybe something I believe in for years
• 1:01:33
  may not be like the strongest in terms of, yeah, authenticity and
• 1:01:36
  what not. But I don't want to get too
• 1:01:37
  waylaid on that because I think like ultimately the point you're
• 1:01:40
  making if if I'm understanding correct.
• 1:01:41
  Exactly is that there does need to be more nuance in discussing
• 1:01:44
  religion and more honesty and more sincerity and maybe less
• 1:01:47
  likely more respect, more respect, more more like cohesion
• 1:01:51
  of and unity of like. They just give maximum knowledge
• 1:01:54
  in it. If you give maximum knowledge,
• 1:01:56
  you're giving all the perspectives to give.
• 1:01:57
  I mean less. Maximum knowledge and that
• 1:01:58
  ultimately will advance our Western share culture.
• 1:02:03
  Because we're like in such a unique position now where we're
• 1:02:05
  trying to find our feet and our ground.
• 1:02:06
  Like if you talk about the last 10 years and how much we've
• 1:02:09
  advanced prior to the 10 years prior and then the coming 10
• 1:02:12
  years, 2033, what's going to be happening and what will we say
• 1:02:15
  about 2023, what was happening now, which 10 years from now can
• 1:02:19
  be like, yeah, started then. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:21
  Like because ten years ago, 15 years ago, there were
• 1:02:24
  groundbreaking movements which which you talked about across
• 1:02:26
  the, you know, the stuff you guys were involved in and others
• 1:02:29
  as well. What we going to do now, like
• 1:02:31
  whether you're listening in Australia or in Europe or in the
• 1:02:34
  North America, wherever, what can we do?
• 1:02:37
  What can you do at home, which can be like hopefully in
• 1:02:41
  Charlotte and Spark. So drop comments below if you
• 1:02:43
  guys got ideas, you guys got suggestions how we can move
• 1:02:46
  forward. Last kind of question before
• 1:02:48
  because I know we were talking what's your ambition?
• 1:02:51
  So what what, what legacy do you want to leave behind?
• 1:02:55
  And that's a heavy question. It is a heavy.
• 1:02:56
  Question The Risbe legacy. What what?
• 1:02:58
  What do you want? Has see Brisbee to be remembered
• 1:03:00
  as OK, we're not going to talk about me in some abstract third
• 1:03:04
  person the. Reborn intro, right?
• 1:03:06
  Yeah. Virtual reality.
• 1:03:07
  No, but Gen. genuinely like actually it's interesting you
• 1:03:10
  mentioned that because like I have been giving this a lot of
• 1:03:12
  thought, right? Especially this last two years,
• 1:03:15
  like having an existential crisis in California, just like
• 1:03:18
  sitting on the beach and like, Oh my God, where am I kind of
• 1:03:20
  thing. What what am I doing with life?
• 1:03:23
  Honestly. And I like, you know, this
• 1:03:26
  doesn't come across in any strange way.
• 1:03:28
  But like, my my goal really, and I'm going to get emotional,
• 1:03:31
  really is just to be like the best that I can be.
• 1:03:37
  I get emotional. I think about my daughter now
• 1:03:40
  that's that's really like, you know, before there was this
• 1:03:43
  whole thing of like, legacy change, like, Oh yeah, I'm going
• 1:03:46
  to do that. I'm going to do that.
• 1:03:46
  But bro, just like when you have you, you've got kids, you know
• 1:03:50
  what I'm talking about, bro. Like if you can make that kid a
• 1:03:52
  decent human being, maybe you're fine, you know what I mean?
• 1:03:57
  But on a more like creative level, I I just kind of want to
• 1:04:02
  keep pushing the boundaries of like our culture, like advancing
• 1:04:07
  it, developing it, nurturing talent, nurturing younger
• 1:04:10
  generation creative talent. I do feel like there might have
• 1:04:14
  been a slow down in the last like 10 years like I haven't
• 1:04:16
  seen anything new pop up. I haven't seen anything like
• 1:04:18
  push the the paper so to speak. So I'm keen to see like, you
• 1:04:23
  know, over the next 10 years, 10 years, 15 years, if we can
• 1:04:26
  develop some system where like younger people can really rise
• 1:04:29
  up and and express like their religious and Shia identity in a
• 1:04:34
  way that's like new right and somehow break away from like the
• 1:04:39
  algorithmic, like sludge that we have today.
• 1:04:44
  Sent said. The interest for said Haley, no.
• 1:04:48
  No. Well, I'm not going to then
• 1:04:51
  Tros. Well, I'm not going to that tros
• 1:04:52
  either. But I'm going to say, you know,
• 1:04:53
  God bless you and then Sharlala protects your daughter for you.
• 1:04:58
  It's very rare for someone to say like I I don't want to leave
• 1:05:01
  a legacy. I just want to show I'm the best
• 1:05:03
  father. Yeah, I hardly hear that.
• 1:05:05
  And it and it shows the man you are and Charlotte you live
• 1:05:09
  through that. And Charlotte, daughter, let's
• 1:05:10
  see that off you. But one thing I want to finish
• 1:05:12
  off with, I want to say, you know, we spoke about scholars
• 1:05:15
  and you know sometimes how, how they are on the pulpit of the
• 1:05:18
  pulpit, whoever is. Just if you're listening to this
• 1:05:21
  podcast and I'm sure we might have a speaker or two, yeah,
• 1:05:24
  share with us your opinion. Yeah, I'll be Because you've
• 1:05:27
  heard our side. You've heard haseeb's side,
• 1:05:28
  You've heard like, our side. We want to hear your side.
• 1:05:32
  Yeah, because we can speak as much as we want.
• 1:05:36
  Or what's the point if no one's listening?
• 1:05:38
  Like if we're talking about the scholars and lecturers, we'll
• 1:05:40
  not protect them. And allow them to continue in
• 1:05:42
  the service that they do. Yeah, it's it.
• 1:05:45
  It's not going to get anywhere. If we're just going to talk and
• 1:05:46
  say, you know, we think you should do this, maybe, you know,
• 1:05:48
  add this to your lecture or share a reference here.
• 1:05:51
  Let us know how we can benefit from each other.
• 1:05:54
  Remember. When Chef said him used to
• 1:05:55
  comment on our podcasts. I used to love that because
• 1:05:58
  that's someone who we look up to, Yeah.
• 1:06:01
  No. Contributing with the
• 1:06:03
  conversation. We there's handle that like
• 1:06:04
  we're lucky because we've. I think like one thing we've
• 1:06:07
  tried to create in like generally in Appleby TV, you
• 1:06:11
  guys know better than I do 100%. But more so with the podcast is
• 1:06:16
  to create an environment or a platform where you can have
• 1:06:18
  varying ideological opinions. Like if you look at our
• 1:06:21
  Hamdulah, we've done 60 plus episodes now, the spectrum
• 1:06:25
  ideologically of guests so varying.
• 1:06:30
  Yeah, so say, how do you say I? Was saying the amount of times
• 1:06:33
  I'm held myself. Yeah, only say watch the one
• 1:06:35
  off. Yeah, no, but like as in from if
• 1:06:38
  you want to call it left or right or whatever.
• 1:06:39
  But like, I think it's important because you are able to share a
• 1:06:42
  platform with people who you typically would not see speak on
• 1:06:45
  the same platform or on the same member In many cases, yeah, but
• 1:06:48
  have been able to come to a more casual environment.
• 1:06:50
  Well, I try to believe this is the clock of that little bit.
• 1:06:53
  Because I know like Rasola Law will even sit with someone who
• 1:06:56
  disagrees with him, someone who was throw the trash on him.
• 1:06:59
  You know, we had stories, yeah, the prophet people used to for
• 1:07:01
  rocks and stones, that's the thing.
• 1:07:03
  You know, we were still chat with him and got become
• 1:07:05
  comfortable like you know when you say culture.
• 1:07:06
  By the way, apparently rumor has that story stems from culture.
• 1:07:11
  It doesn't actually exist. What you're talking about of Now
• 1:07:14
  we'll Fact Check the We'll Fact Check this for the podcast in
• 1:07:17
  the Fact Check Yeah. That's all you to Fact Check
• 1:07:19
  because I don't know what to begin to say.
• 1:07:21
  All right. Thank you so much.
• 1:07:23
  Appreciate it man. I appreciate you loving the time
• 1:07:24
  it's been. Great.
• 1:07:25
  Not at all man. We love, we love you.
• 1:07:27
  We love the work you do. You you are like a one in a
• 1:07:31
  million talent and you know that and and bro.
• 1:07:34
  Mela give you more more power to your arm and more Charlotte,
• 1:07:38
  more energy and drive to continue and Mela protect you
• 1:07:43
  and your family bro. Always come back, bro.
• 1:07:46
  California is where it's going to be at.
• 1:07:48
  Charlotte, like the planet, is to develop the community out
• 1:07:50
  there, you know? In Charlotte.
• 1:07:51
  In Charlotte. The way you said come back, it
• 1:07:53
  sounded like he left religion and you asked him to come back.
• 1:07:56
  Iman Hussein needs him there. In Charlotte.
• 1:07:59
  In Charlotte. Alright bro, thank you once
• 1:08:00
  again. Thank you as always and everyone
• 1:08:03
  at home, thank you for tuning in.
• 1:08:06
  Great to to have you if you're still here.
• 1:08:08
  God bless you. I'm sure you must be like brain
• 1:08:11
  fried right now. But thank you for tuning in
• 1:08:14
  until this late. And yet leave us a comment,
• 1:08:16
  leave your suggestions, and yeah, we'll be back as always
• 1:08:21
  next week. Take care.
• 1:08:22
  Have a great. Week, unless it's the last
• 1:08:23
  episode of the season. No, it's not we've.
• 1:08:26
  Got one or two in the show. We've got more, got a couple
• 1:08:28
  more. Take care guys.
• 1:08:29
  We'll see you next week with some idea come to live workout.