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BLOODY AMBUSH ON 2 KANSAS MOMS; AUTOPSIES SHOW TORTURE? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: In the last days, we learn how the murdered Kansas
0:12
Speaker 2: moms were killed. One murdered Kansas mom suffering thirty stab wounds,
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Speaker 2: including additional cut wounds where she tried to defend herself,
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Speaker 2: according to the official autopsy. This autopsy showing shocking details
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Speaker 2: about how the Kansas moms wait, let me just start over.
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Speaker 2: Two Kansas moms, Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly, ambushed as
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Speaker 2: they traveled together to a children's birthday party. In the
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Speaker 2: last days, devastating evidence emerges, am Nancy Grace, this is
0:50
Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Autopsy results
0:55
Speaker 2: of the two murdered moms emerge and we learn one
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Speaker 2: murdered Canaansa's moms suffered thirty stab wounds and cut wounds
1:05
Speaker 2: as she tried valiantly to defend herself. This according to
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Speaker 2: an official autopsy. The autopsy revealing shocking details about how
1:16
Speaker 2: the Kansas moms were killed by this odd, peculiar religious gang.
1:23
Speaker 2: Grizzly autopsy reports reveal how the two Kansas moms were
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Speaker 2: murdered on a road trip to Oklahoma on their way
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Speaker 2: to a birthday party, allegedly at the hands of a
1:35
Speaker 2: brutal religious cult offshoot.
1:40
Speaker 3: How did it all unfold? Listen?
1:42
Speaker 4: The planned meeting place for Veronica Butler to pick up
1:45
Speaker 4: her children was a closed gas station near the intersection
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Speaker 4: of Oklahoma State Highway ninety five and Rhodel. The area
1:51
Speaker 4: is flat and desolate. There are no trees or homes nearby,
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Speaker 4: as well as no traffic cameras. This is where Melissa
1:57
Speaker 4: and Joey Padilla, relatives of Veronica Butler, founder car after
2:01
Speaker 4: the mom didn't arrive at a birthday party for one
2:03
Speaker 4: of her children. The car was abandoned and there were
2:05
Speaker 4: pools of blood nearby, so they called police. Investigators now
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Speaker 4: say they believe Butler and Jillian Kelly were lured to
2:12
Speaker 4: the location, arriving around nine forty am. Besides the pools
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Speaker 4: of blood, officers found Butler's glasses on the ground near
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Speaker 4: a broken hammer. Kelly's purse was also found. Inside was
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Speaker 4: a gun magazine, but no weapon. Police say the women
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Speaker 4: were forced into another vehicle. The women's phone stopped sending
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Speaker 4: signals at nine forty two am.
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Speaker 2: Only that official court document seemingly reveal that this was
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Speaker 2: not their first attempt on the young mom, with me
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Speaker 2: at all start panel to make sense of what we
2:42
Speaker 2: are learning. Stunning and chilling details emerging for a straight
2:47
Speaker 2: out to Lauren Conlin, investigative journalist's host off the Outlawyer podcast, Lauren,
2:53
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. You've been on the
2:55
Speaker 2: case from the very beginning. I can't believe what I
2:59
Speaker 2: am seeing. And this affidavit a granny, a killer granny
3:04
Speaker 2: suspect uses a bulldozer guns, Lauren, what's happening?
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Speaker 5: This is so tragic.
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Speaker 6: It came out in these affidavits that this was not
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Speaker 6: the first attempt to take Veronica Butler's life.
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Speaker 5: They were planning to do something in February.
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Speaker 6: Where an anvil would go through her windshield as this
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Speaker 6: was very common in the area.
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Speaker 5: They would fall off construction trucks, and.
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Speaker 2: They believed, Okay, please tell me you aren't somehow a
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Speaker 2: victim of Stockholm syndrome because anvilds don't just fall out
3:41
Speaker 2: of the air into people's cars. I don't care where
3:44
Speaker 2: it is, I mean, hold on right there. Cheryl McCollum
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Speaker 2: is joining me, founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
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Speaker 2: forensics expert. As a matter of fact, she's joining me
3:53
Speaker 2: right now from her squad car. Cheryl, host of a
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Speaker 2: Hitney podcast, Zones seven. I know, maybe in crazy Granny's world,
4:04
Speaker 2: an anvil falling from the sky or off a truck
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Speaker 2: into the young mom's car sounds reasonable.
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Speaker 3: It's not, Cheryl, It's not reasonable.
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Speaker 7: It's not reasonable.
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Speaker 8: You're talking about something that is so heavy there's no
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Speaker 8: way it's going to fall off a truck, and if
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Speaker 8: it does, it's simply gonna land three feet onto the pavement,
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Speaker 8: not up five to six feet through her windshield. So again,
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Speaker 8: when you're talking about plotting and planting a murder and
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Speaker 8: your baseline is wiley coyote, you've got problems from the
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Speaker 8: get go. This was asinine at best.
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Speaker 2: Can I ask you something, Cheryl McCollum. I know you're
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Speaker 2: comparing them to a and their plan to a wily
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Speaker 2: coyote plot. But these two women are dead, six children
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Speaker 2: between them, and I don't care what anybody says, including
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Speaker 2: a shrink that will tell me how wrong I am.
5:06
Speaker 2: There is nothing that can replace your mother, nothing, amen,
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Speaker 2: And it may be a far fetched plan.
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Speaker 3: It may be, but these ladies are dead, not just
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Speaker 3: the young.
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Speaker 2: Mom who is her right there just going to throw a.
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Speaker 3: Birthday party for her children.
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Speaker 2: That's Veronica Butler, just twenty seven years old.
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Speaker 3: But then you've got the.
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Speaker 2: Other lady, the church secretary preacher wife. She's dead too,
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Speaker 2: Jilly and Kelly in her thirties, the prime of her life.
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Speaker 2: She was just doing a ride along to facilitate the
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Speaker 2: visitation of the pickup of mom's babies. Six children without
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Speaker 2: a mom. So I don't care how zany their plot is.
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Speaker 2: There were pools of blood left around this young mom's
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Speaker 2: car because in my mind of.
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Speaker 3: Killer Granny may she wrought in hell.
6:00
Speaker 2: And let me point out, as Cally Hyman will tell
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Speaker 2: me pretty quickly, they're innocent until proven guilty, and you
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Speaker 2: can all quit telling me that on Twitter. I know that,
6:10
Speaker 2: I know they're not guilty yet, but I guarantee you
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Speaker 2: they will be the cause of a track a mile wide?
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Speaker 2: Isn't that riot? Lauren Collin a mile wide? Tell me
6:22
Speaker 2: about the evidence we're learning out of this warrant right here?
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Speaker 5: Okay, So this is crazy.
6:27
Speaker 6: So first and foremost, they got a search warrant on
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Speaker 6: I believe it was March thirty first for Timpany Adams's phone,
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Speaker 6: So they searched on her phone and they find searches
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Speaker 6: that read taser pain level, where to buy a gun
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Speaker 6: at different gunshops in the area, and then where to
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Speaker 6: get prepaid cell phones, and then how to get someone
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Speaker 6: out of their house.
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Speaker 5: Now in the meantime, my boyfriend.
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Speaker 2: Lee, you know what, you're just like spouting all this
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Speaker 2: damn information like it's a fire hydrant. Lauren Comlin, too much,
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Speaker 2: too fast. Okay, I'm drinking from the fire hydrant here,
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Speaker 2: he said, Look the pain level of a taser. That
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Speaker 2: was the mother in law's to say, Google search.
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Speaker 3: She searched, the pay level of a taser?
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Speaker 5: She did, she searched.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I got to go now to an eminent guest
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Speaker 2: joining me, doctor Kendall Crowns. He is the chief medical
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Speaker 2: examiner in Terrance County. That's Fort Worth near Dallas, Lecturer University,
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Speaker 2: Texan Christian University Medical School, and he is joining us
7:39
Speaker 2: right now from his office at the Medical Examiners.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: I had a good friend at CNN who actually tasered himself,
7:50
Speaker 2: and a good friend at Court TV that followed up
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Speaker 2: on it to make sure it really hurt. God rest
7:57
Speaker 2: his soul. Michael Christian. So, doctor Kindle Crown, tell me
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Speaker 2: how a taser works, and this is what was the plan.
8:06
Speaker 2: This is the plan to use on two unarmed moms
8:12
Speaker 2: a taser. How does it work and how badly does
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Speaker 2: it hurt? Doctor crowns.
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Speaker 9: So, conductive electronic devices like taser work by injecting prongs
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Speaker 9: into your skin and then using these skins moisture to
8:29
Speaker 9: conduct electricity across it and then send a large amount
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Speaker 9: of electricity into your body, basically shocking you. The shock
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Speaker 9: itself causes a tremendous amount of pain, causes you to
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Speaker 9: spasm and then collapse.
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Speaker 2: See that's why I have to work with you so
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Speaker 2: much before I could put you on the stand. Conductive
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Speaker 2: electronic device? What are you talking about? Can you dumb
8:56
Speaker 2: me down for me? Please just say it? Regular people
9:00
Speaker 2: talk how a taser works and the amount of pain.
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Speaker 3: What can we.
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Speaker 9: Compare it to conductive electronic devices? Is what a taser is?
9:08
Speaker 9: Taser themselves prefer you call it a conductive electronic device
9:12
Speaker 9: because not all conductive electronic devices are tasers. It's like
9:16
Speaker 9: a xerox machine, is a copier, etc. So it is
9:21
Speaker 9: basically electricity being forced into your body. High amounts of electricity.
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Speaker 9: It'd be like you putting a fork into a wall socket.
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Speaker 9: You get the same kind of experience from that, except
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Speaker 9: the wall socket doesn't cause as much electricity to go
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Speaker 9: through you as a taser does.
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Speaker 2: As a general rule, a taser start with the baseline
9:44
Speaker 2: a fifty thousand volts of electricity. Fifty thousand volts of electricity,
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Speaker 2: what does that mean, doctor Kendall Crowns.
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Speaker 9: That's the high amount of electricity. It's higher than basically
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Speaker 9: your standard current in your house. So it's a large
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Speaker 9: amount of electricity being put into your body all at once.
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Speaker 3: Just think about it.
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Speaker 2: Think about it, Cheryl McCollum, This evil mother in law
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Speaker 2: was prepared to use fifty thousand vaults of electricity minimum
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Speaker 2: on the victims, in this case, two unarmed women. She
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Speaker 2: didn't care if she caused that amount of pain.
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Speaker 8: But let's talk even more basic in the beginning, you've
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Speaker 8: got four people and two women.
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Speaker 7: It doesn't take a taser to control them.
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Speaker 8: If you ambushed two unsuspecting victims with four people, you're
10:41
Speaker 8: going to be able to control them fairly easily. I
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Speaker 8: believe that the stun gun was for.
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Speaker 1: Torture crime stories with Nancy Grace.
11:00
Speaker 2: According to the autopsies from the State Medical Examiner doctor
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Speaker 2: Celia Cobb, Kelly suffered nine stab wounds and seven cuts
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Speaker 2: to her back and seven cuts to the back of
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Speaker 2: her neck and head. She also suffered a fractured vertebra
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Speaker 2: and damaged spinal cord when she was killed, stun gun
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Speaker 2: marks on her neck and cuts to her hand indicating
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Speaker 2: she tried to defend herself. Her friend, twenty seven year
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Speaker 2: old Veronica Butler, tragically killed in a very similar manner.
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Speaker 2: Both women found in quote pools of blood. Veronica suffered
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Speaker 2: a total of thirty sharp force injuries, including sliced fingers,
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Speaker 2: consistent with attempting to defend herself. That's straight out of
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Speaker 2: the autopsy report, and she was also found with stun
12:03
Speaker 2: gun marks to the back of her neck. The autopsies
12:07
Speaker 2: indicate both women were believed to have been killed before
12:12
Speaker 2: they were placed in a deep chest freezer. The freezer
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Speaker 2: found under concrete slab and buried eight feet below the surface.
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Speaker 2: Kelly hymen, I mean this gang, which they call themselves
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Speaker 2: God's Misfits, have left a trail a mile wide. The
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Speaker 2: State's gonna have a field day with this.
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Speaker 10: This is a horrible story for these young kids to
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Speaker 10: lose their mother. And we always when we look at
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Speaker 10: things as why do people do this? What was their
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Speaker 10: motive behind this? What was their reacity behind this? That's key,
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Speaker 10: And allegedly they were in some big family dispute, bitter
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Speaker 10: dispute that left these beautiful kids without a month. Ultimately, Nancy,
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Speaker 10: as you said, you are innocent until proven guilty, but
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Speaker 10: there is allegedly a lot of evidence coming out that's
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Speaker 10: going to make a strong case for the state.
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Speaker 2: I need to bring up the innocent until proving guilty part.
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Speaker 1: What more do we know?
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Speaker 2: Guys straight out to Lauren Colin guns, bulldozers, tasers, stun guns.
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Speaker 3: What more do we know?
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Speaker 2: Lauren? And all of this is to take out two innocent,
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Speaker 2: unarmed mothers.
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Speaker 5: Yes, let me stop you. There have been no guns found,
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Speaker 5: just stun guns.
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Speaker 6: So this is actually really interesting and I'm a bit confused.
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Speaker 5: I came across I think it was yesterday or the
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Speaker 5: day before.
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Speaker 6: It was on an outleok called the Oklahoma and you
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Speaker 6: have to pay for a lot of these articles. I
13:53
Speaker 6: did not pay, but I did find a little snippet
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Speaker 6: where the medical examiner said I don't believe they were
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Speaker 6: a shot.
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Speaker 5: And I'm going through all.
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Speaker 6: Of these affidavits, the arrest affidavits, all the probable cause,
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Speaker 6: and I.
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Speaker 5: Don't see any guns.
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Speaker 6: And as Dave Max said, you know, Jillian Kelly had
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Speaker 6: a pistol magazine in her purse, but there were no guns.
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Speaker 6: So all we have here is burner phones and stun guns.
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Speaker 5: And then we have the equipment that I was going
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Speaker 5: to get to.
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Speaker 6: So Tad Cullum, Tiffany's boyfriend, he rented some land about
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Speaker 6: eight miles away from where their vehicle was initially found
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Speaker 6: Veronica and Gillian's, and he rented equipment like bulldozers and
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Speaker 6: all these these names that my son would know skid
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Speaker 6: steers could be much better than than I am at this.
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Speaker 6: And he ends up digging a hole in this property
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Speaker 6: and then covering it with hay. And this area is
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Speaker 6: the last place where the women's phones were actually pinged
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Speaker 6: this area, and the property owner, I believe his name
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Speaker 6: is Jamie Beasley, he had no idea.
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Speaker 5: What was going on. So when authorities, you.
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Speaker 6: Know, send all those tru us to get the women
15:02
Speaker 6: to get the bodies. Once they get the timp, he's
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Speaker 6: crying He's like, oh my gosh, I had no idea
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Speaker 6: and just in complete and utter.
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Speaker 3: Shocks and joining me.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, Founder director, Cold Case Research Institute and forensics expert. Cheryl,
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Speaker 2: I can see all the digital fingerprint footprint adding up,
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Speaker 2: placing the moms at this location and coincidentally the same
15:27
Speaker 2: location where the burner phones were turned off. But I
15:31
Speaker 2: want to talk about the mag the magazine, the gun
15:34
Speaker 2: magazine found in one of the victims purses.
15:36
Speaker 3: There's no indication that either of the victims had a gun.
15:40
Speaker 2: And when I say a magazine, I'm talking about a
15:43
Speaker 2: mag not a clip. A mag feeds rounds into the
15:49
Speaker 2: gun chamber as it's being fired. So what do you
15:52
Speaker 2: make of a mag being found not verified?
15:56
Speaker 8: A lot of information. They're playing this close to the vent,
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Speaker 8: which they should. But you know, let's say you are
16:02
Speaker 8: going with somebody to beat you know, ex family members
16:06
Speaker 8: that they've been fighting with for nine years. Maybe somebody
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Speaker 8: gave her something to you know, protect herself. We don't
16:13
Speaker 8: know if this was her, you know, potential particle weapon
16:17
Speaker 8: or perpetrate, we don't know yet.
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Speaker 7: And you know, all we do know.
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Speaker 8: Is there pools of blood at the seat broken hammer,
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Speaker 8: So was somebody shot?
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Speaker 7: Was somebody hitting the head, blood force trauma? We don't
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Speaker 7: know yet.
16:32
Speaker 3: Guys. We are learning that a minor.
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Speaker 2: We believe it to be a teen girl, has turned informant.
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Speaker 2: Take a listen to this.
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Speaker 11: The teenager told police that she had heard conversation among
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Speaker 11: the adults that Adam's grandchildren were at risk when they
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Speaker 11: were with Butler. She told investigators that Adams had provided
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Speaker 11: burner phones so that personal devices were not needed to communicate.
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Speaker 11: The girl said she had seen two of the phones
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Speaker 11: charging on her mother's nightstand. The day before the murders.
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Speaker 11: Adam's boyfriend, Column forty three, had asked the owner of
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Speaker 11: the property he rented if he could do some work
17:12
Speaker 11: there with his kids. Seer a kind of bulldozer. According
17:16
Speaker 11: to the owner's conversation with police, Colum reportedly said he
17:20
Speaker 11: wanted to cut down a tree, remove a stump, and
17:23
Speaker 11: bury some concrete. The teen said she heard that her
17:26
Speaker 11: mother and stepfather block the road, diverting the women to
17:30
Speaker 11: where the others were waiting. When asked why Kelly had
17:33
Speaker 11: to die, her mother reportedly said because Kelly supported Butler.
17:38
Speaker 11: She wasn't innocent. The child asked Cora twombly if they
17:42
Speaker 11: had put the bodies in a well. She was told
17:45
Speaker 11: something like.
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Speaker 2: That, Wow, it's always difficult to put a child on
17:49
Speaker 2: the stand during a jury trial, but.
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Speaker 3: Sometimes you have to.
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Speaker 2: This teen girl revealing so much of what was going
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Speaker 2: on in the home before the murders, in the home
18:01
Speaker 2: of the suspects. Straight back out to Lauren Colin, joining
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Speaker 2: US investigative journalist and host of The Outlier. So, a
18:10
Speaker 2: skid steer is a kind of bulldozer. Where were the
18:15
Speaker 2: two moms bodies found?
18:17
Speaker 6: So they were found by a dam in that rented
18:22
Speaker 6: area of the property. So I'm assuming that they were
18:26
Speaker 6: somewhat covered by this hay and the fresh dirt. I
18:30
Speaker 6: believe they called it the soil, and they were easy
18:33
Speaker 6: to find. I also I want to point something out
18:37
Speaker 6: as well. Nancy her the witness.
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Speaker 3: Cora told her or.
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Speaker 6: Her daughter, whoever the witness was, that things didn't go
18:46
Speaker 6: according to plan.
18:48
Speaker 5: This mission did not go according to plan.
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Speaker 6: So I don't know exactly what that means, but I
18:54
Speaker 6: have a hunch it has something to do with a
18:56
Speaker 6: possible suspect that hasn't been arrested. But that's just mine.
19:01
Speaker 3: Joining me right now.
19:02
Speaker 2: Former US Marshall Service International Investigations Branch, author of Flying
19:07
Speaker 2: Solo on Amazon. IRV Brandt joining US Irvbrandt. Did you
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Speaker 2: hear what Lauren Colin just said? And I've read it
19:16
Speaker 2: in the official court docs that this gang God's misfits.
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Speaker 3: Said they were on a mission.
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Speaker 2: They call murdering these two young moms a mission?
19:31
Speaker 3: What a mission from Hell?
19:33
Speaker 12: That's exactly what it was, Nancy. These people are obviously deranged.
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Speaker 12: They're not criminal masterminds. They had a previous murder plan
19:44
Speaker 12: that didn't come, didn't pan out. Then they go into
19:48
Speaker 12: this elaborate plan using stun guns and a bulldozer, but
19:55
Speaker 12: they leave a trail a mile wide for police investigators
19:59
Speaker 12: to follow. Nancy, I've never seen anything like this. They
20:03
Speaker 12: might as well have written out a confession and signed
20:07
Speaker 12: it and sent it to the police.
20:09
Speaker 2: Soon after the bodies were found, police arrested Butler's children's
20:13
Speaker 2: paternal grandmother, Tiffany Adams while that's a mother in law
20:18
Speaker 2: from Hell, along with her boyfriend Tad Cullum, alongside Cole
20:24
Speaker 2: Twombly and Cora Twombly, all of.
20:27
Speaker 3: Them charged with murder.
20:29
Speaker 2: But in the last days this autopsy speaks volumes. The
20:34
Speaker 2: full autopsy report for the second Kansas mom buried in
20:38
Speaker 2: a freezer and a cow pasture after being reported missing
20:42
Speaker 2: on a.
20:42
Speaker 3: Road trip just released.
20:45
Speaker 2: Much of the medical examiner's deductions is found in this
20:50
Speaker 2: phrase quote. Given the extent of misus Butler's injuries, including
20:54
Speaker 2: defects to both of her internal jugular veins with resultant
21:00
Speaker 2: exagination bleeding out, it is my opinion her death was
21:04
Speaker 2: very quick and likely occurred before she was placed inside
21:08
Speaker 2: the freezer and buried. The autopsy goes on to say, quote.
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Speaker 2: This opinion is additionally supported by the fact her body
21:16
Speaker 2: appeared to have remained exactly how it was placed inside
21:20
Speaker 2: the freezer. Okay, what does that mean? Was her body
21:23
Speaker 2: folded or crumpled up? The autopsy on Veronica was released
21:27
Speaker 2: about two weeks after the report on Jillian and Kelly,
21:30
Speaker 2: the other mom missing on the road trip. That report
21:34
Speaker 2: revealed even more details about her death. What more do
21:40
Speaker 2: we know about that fateful day and the people now
21:44
Speaker 2: charged with murder? Earlier I think we heard Cheryl McCollum
21:49
Speaker 2: compared it to Wiley Coyote their plot, and I admonished
21:53
Speaker 2: her because we've got two dead moms. But actually it
21:57
Speaker 2: does sound like something out of the Apple Dump Gang, except.
22:00
Speaker 3: Nobody ever died in those movies.
22:03
Speaker 2: Where they've been watching way too many movies with the
22:07
Speaker 2: burner phones and the rendezvous point and the bull I mean,
22:11
Speaker 2: how much more obvious can it be or a brand
22:15
Speaker 2: than to rent a bulldozer or to bring over your bulldozer, Nancy.
22:20
Speaker 12: I mean, I can't even give you a reasonable explanation
22:24
Speaker 12: for their line of thinking of This is just not
22:28
Speaker 12: it's it's like Cheryl Max said, it's something out of
22:32
Speaker 12: a cartoon trying to drop an acme anvil on their head.
22:39
Speaker 12: I don't know where these people came up with their
22:41
Speaker 12: ideas when they started researching it online. That amounts to,
22:46
Speaker 12: you know, someone saying well I want to poison someone,
22:49
Speaker 12: then doing it, you know, researching it on their computer,
22:53
Speaker 12: then ordering poison off an Amazon to carry out the murder.
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Speaker 12: I can't give you an explanation, Nancy, I'm sorry.
23:02
Speaker 4: The team told police that she was told that her
23:05
Speaker 4: mother and stepfather would be gone that Saturday. When the
23:07
Speaker 4: team woke up, she was told they were going to
23:09
Speaker 4: be on a mission, and as she was told, the
23:12
Speaker 4: Twombleys were not home when she woke up around ten am.
23:15
Speaker 1: She says.
23:16
Speaker 4: The couple came back around noon in their pickup and
23:18
Speaker 4: a flatbed pickup owned by a relative. The teen says
23:22
Speaker 4: she was told to clean the interior of the Chevrolet pickup.
23:25
Speaker 4: When she asked what had happened, she was told things
23:27
Speaker 4: had not gone as plan, but that they would not
23:30
Speaker 4: have to worry about Butler again. At the same time
23:33
Speaker 4: that the twembles arrived home, Tiffany Adams went to pick
23:36
Speaker 4: up her grandchildren at the home of the other couple
23:38
Speaker 4: who hosted God's Misfits meetings.
23:40
Speaker 2: The affidavit said, joining me an all star panel, Cheryl McCollum,
23:43
Speaker 2: did you hear that they used their own vehicle, They
23:47
Speaker 2: used their own computer, They used their own cell phones
23:49
Speaker 2: to send text message, They spoke in front of witnesses
23:53
Speaker 2: again for four people.
23:55
Speaker 8: To plot and plan. They made such severe mistake. I
24:00
Speaker 8: agree with her. They might as well have just done
24:03
Speaker 8: a confession from the get go, because it was obvious
24:05
Speaker 8: who did it.
24:06
Speaker 7: You and I talked today about.
24:09
Speaker 8: You know, the victims left a town of twelve hundred
24:11
Speaker 8: people to go to a town of two hundred and
24:13
Speaker 8: eighty one people. Your suspect pool was people right off
24:17
Speaker 8: the bat.
24:18
Speaker 2: According to the witness that has emerged, this teen girl
24:23
Speaker 2: was told the mother, her I guess boyfriend, and two
24:30
Speaker 2: others who claimed to be quote God's Misfits were on
24:33
Speaker 2: a quote mission I'm reading from the affidavit, they were
24:37
Speaker 2: going to be on a mission.
24:40
Speaker 3: She woke up around ten am. They all came back
24:45
Speaker 3: around noon.
24:46
Speaker 2: The defendants in a pickup and a flatbed owned by
24:52
Speaker 2: a relative, and she, the teen girl, was told to
24:56
Speaker 2: claim the interior of the Chevrolet pickup.
24:59
Speaker 3: What is that mean to me?
25:01
Speaker 2: That means that at least one of these mothers was
25:04
Speaker 2: transported to a burial site in the Chevy pickup. When
25:09
Speaker 2: the girl asked what happened, she was told things had
25:12
Speaker 2: quote not gone as planned, but they would never have
25:15
Speaker 2: to worry about Butler, that being twenty seven year old
25:19
Speaker 2: mom Veronica Butler. Again, at the same time, Tiffany Adams
25:25
Speaker 2: goes to pick up the grandchildren elsewhere another couple's home
25:29
Speaker 2: who hosted God's Misfits meetings.
25:33
Speaker 3: What does that say to me? That tells me?
25:36
Speaker 2: Out to Kelly Hyman, a veteran trial lawyer, that there
25:40
Speaker 2: are other people, the ones that were babysitting the children
25:44
Speaker 2: during all of this, that knew about the plan, and
25:47
Speaker 2: there are going to be states witnesses along with this
25:49
Speaker 2: teen girl. As if I don't have enough information and
25:53
Speaker 2: enough evidence anyway, now, these babysitters, the other God's misfits,
26:00
Speaker 2: they're going to be witnesses or they could always be
26:04
Speaker 2: charged for aiding and a betting, and I don't think
26:06
Speaker 2: they want to go to the pen for that.
26:08
Speaker 3: You bring up a really good point.
26:10
Speaker 10: Yes, So if people overheard this, they could potentially be
26:13
Speaker 10: the state's witness, and what that means is they will
26:16
Speaker 10: testify in the trial of saying what they've heard or
26:19
Speaker 10: potentially if they could potentially be charged with aiding and
26:23
Speaker 10: a betting and assisting in this in fact, if they don't,
26:27
Speaker 10: if they helped assist with this murder and stuff like that.
26:31
Speaker 10: So it'll be interesting to see what transpires in the
26:33
Speaker 10: coming next days and who turns as a state witness
26:37
Speaker 10: or potentially are there going to be additional charges for
26:40
Speaker 10: people who overheard stuff and were potentially involved in this
26:43
Speaker 10: as well.
26:44
Speaker 2: Back to doctor Kendall Crown's joining us out of Charrett County,
26:47
Speaker 2: fort were from the Medical Examiner's office. Dr Crown's again,
26:50
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. We're trying to determine
26:54
Speaker 2: whether the manner of death was shooting or stabbing.
27:00
Speaker 3: I know the bodies had been.
27:02
Speaker 2: Buried haphazardly, would you be able to tell and how
27:08
Speaker 2: the manner and cause of death?
27:10
Speaker 9: Certainly you'd be able to determine the cause of death
27:12
Speaker 9: based on the injury patterns, even though they had been buried.
27:15
Speaker 9: It won't take away the damage to the body, especially
27:20
Speaker 9: to the skeletal system. Kind and in the manner of
27:23
Speaker 9: death would be fairly easy. The fact that they've been
27:26
Speaker 9: buried out in the middle of nowhere, They're obviously been killed,
27:30
Speaker 9: so it's going to be a homicide. So determining between
27:34
Speaker 9: gunshot wounds, stabbings or beatings, it would just be looking
27:37
Speaker 9: at the injury patterns on the body based on the
27:40
Speaker 9: information you already had. Pools of blood, broken hammer. The
27:44
Speaker 9: fact that they were talking about using an anvil in
27:46
Speaker 9: the first place makes me feel like they've probably beaten
27:50
Speaker 9: these individuals to death using a hammer after they stunned them.
27:53
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, doctor Kimmel Crowns, I understand what you're
27:57
Speaker 2: saying now there's a very strong potential of the two
28:02
Speaker 2: victims being beaten dead with a hammer.
28:06
Speaker 3: And why do you say.
28:07
Speaker 9: That, Because there's a broken hammer at the scene, there's
28:10
Speaker 9: pools of blood, and they had been talking about doing
28:13
Speaker 9: blunt force trauma to the individuals in the first place,
28:16
Speaker 9: using an handvile, So it doesn't sound like they had
28:19
Speaker 9: planned to use guns all along. That they kind of
28:21
Speaker 9: planned to use blunt force trauma. So it makes me
28:25
Speaker 9: think that they use the stun guns to kind of
28:27
Speaker 9: subdue them and then just beat them to death with
28:30
Speaker 9: a hammer.
28:30
Speaker 3: You know, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
28:33
Speaker 2: I was thinking gun because of the amount of blood
28:37
Speaker 2: pools of blood there. And I attributed the hammer handle
28:42
Speaker 2: to breaking the windshield because a witness stated she.
28:48
Speaker 3: Had driven by there's around ten am.
28:51
Speaker 2: The mom's left for their journey of forty five minute
28:55
Speaker 2: drive around nine am, and at ten am email witness
29:00
Speaker 2: drives by and sees their vehicle and sees a window
29:05
Speaker 2: on the driver's side bust it out. Now, I attributed
29:10
Speaker 2: the discovery of the hammer handle to breaking out the window,
29:15
Speaker 2: but your theory makes a lot more sense to me. Plus,
29:19
Speaker 2: I'm not hearing about any guns being registered to the defendants,
29:24
Speaker 2: although I find that really hard to believe. But that said,
29:28
Speaker 2: what about it, Cheryl McCollum.
29:29
Speaker 8: As to why the glasses will be on the ground
29:32
Speaker 8: large pools of blood. Nobody in the vicinity heard a
29:35
Speaker 8: gunshot it also, would you know? To me, goes back
29:39
Speaker 8: to my theory. They were tortured. This was anger. She
29:44
Speaker 8: didn't look up stunn gum. She looked up the pain level.
29:49
Speaker 8: This was very personal. They have been fighting for almost
29:53
Speaker 8: a decade over those children and they were attacked. I'm
29:58
Speaker 8: going to say it again, didn't take four people. This
30:02
Speaker 8: was a deliberate gang.
30:05
Speaker 2: Ambush, killer granny suspects, bloody ambush on two unarmed Kansas
30:13
Speaker 2: moms on their way to a children's birthday party, and
30:16
Speaker 2: they apparently used tasers, burner phones, even a bulldozer to
30:22
Speaker 2: affect their plan.
30:24
Speaker 3: Joining me an all star panel, you were just hearing,
30:26
Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum.
30:27
Speaker 2: But now to Lauren Conlin, investigative journalists, host of the
30:31
Speaker 2: Outlier podcast. I want to hear what you have to
30:34
Speaker 2: say about the use of the hammer as the murder weapon.
30:39
Speaker 2: But also I found something buried in the affidavit and
30:44
Speaker 2: I found this really interesting. I want everybody on the
30:46
Speaker 2: panel to jump in. We find out that three prepaid
30:50
Speaker 2: cellular phones were purchased from Walmart in Oklahoma back on
30:55
Speaker 2: feb thirteen. That's how long they've been planning this since thirteen.
31:01
Speaker 2: This is what I found really interesting. All three of
31:04
Speaker 2: the burner phones were powered on and access cellular network
31:10
Speaker 2: for the first time at Colum's residence, so Ellie law
31:19
Speaker 2: enforcement can identify the first time these idiots turned on
31:25
Speaker 2: the burner phone is basically inside.
31:28
Speaker 3: Their own home.
31:30
Speaker 1: Ding dong.
31:31
Speaker 2: They couldn't figure out that they are leaving a digital trail.
31:35
Speaker 2: They're turning on the cellular phones that were used to
31:40
Speaker 2: orchestrate this double murder.
31:42
Speaker 3: They turn it on for the first time in or
31:45
Speaker 3: near their own home.
31:48
Speaker 2: I mean they need to go back and watch Ocean's
31:51
Speaker 2: eleven all over again.
31:54
Speaker 3: Lauren Colin, you were jumping in. What were you saying?
31:57
Speaker 6: Well, I can provide some context to this as well,
32:00
Speaker 6: because while they appear to be extremely dumb criminals, obviously,
32:05
Speaker 6: I think there's an element to this, right, the farm element.
32:08
Speaker 6: I don't think that it's out of the ordinary that
32:11
Speaker 6: he would rent farm equipment or dig holes xyz.
32:15
Speaker 5: But using your own cell phones.
32:18
Speaker 6: And turning these cell phones, these burner phones on at
32:21
Speaker 6: your own house. This goes to the fact that Tiffany
32:24
Speaker 6: Adams is actually.
32:26
Speaker 5: Very connected in that town.
32:28
Speaker 6: She runs and is responsible for the Simmern County GOP.
32:33
Speaker 6: She's their chair, she was a former school board chair.
32:36
Speaker 6: She knows the sheriff's office. I mean, I think there
32:40
Speaker 6: was a quote where she had said, you know, I
32:42
Speaker 6: know the path the judge takes to work. She knows everybody,
32:46
Speaker 6: and I believe that she thinks that she is untouchable
32:49
Speaker 6: and people don't necessarily want to talk. The one judge
32:53
Speaker 6: that did speak, he was forced to resign the next day.
32:56
Speaker 5: So it's really interesting.
32:58
Speaker 6: And I think that this woman, and in particular Tiffany Adams,
33:01
Speaker 6: she holds a type of power that we are just
33:04
Speaker 6: going to be learning about.
33:05
Speaker 3: Well you know what, that calls for a change of venue.
33:09
Speaker 3: That won't be hard. You know, I'm.
33:11
Speaker 2: Still looking very carefully at this, Amadavid, and I want
33:15
Speaker 2: everybody to weigh in on this.
33:17
Speaker 13: The whole dug about two hundred yards below of dam
33:23
Speaker 13: fell back in and covered with Hey, I mean you
33:26
Speaker 13: could probably.
33:27
Speaker 2: See that with a drive over from a helicopter.
33:31
Speaker 3: For Pete's sake. Did they not think cops are going
33:34
Speaker 3: to find that? I mean, urv Brandt.
33:37
Speaker 2: I've seen many many homicides. I've investigated many, tried many,
33:43
Speaker 2: covered many.
33:44
Speaker 3: But this is a.
33:46
Speaker 2: Plethora, a Pandora's box of evidence.
33:50
Speaker 12: Nancy, that's exactly right, Like you, I've been doing this
33:54
Speaker 12: all my adult life, and I have never seen a
33:59
Speaker 12: case probably easier to solve, easier to prove.
34:05
Speaker 3: When we take it to.
34:06
Speaker 12: You, as the prosecuting attorney, you'd look at us and say,
34:13
Speaker 12: you've got to be kidding me. You know, I can't
34:17
Speaker 12: believe this. Whereas did they videotape themselves committing the crime?
34:21
Speaker 12: Did they post it on social media? They did just
34:24
Speaker 12: about everything else imaginable, you know, to say they did it,
34:29
Speaker 12: the confessions have got to be forthcoming. I would imagine
34:33
Speaker 12: to the police crime stories with Nancy Grace.
34:47
Speaker 2: A damning second autopsy released in the case of two
34:50
Speaker 2: Kansas moms who are kidnapped and murdered on their way
34:54
Speaker 2: to a children's birthday party. Aside from the autopsy, what
34:58
Speaker 2: more do we know? I want you to take a
35:00
Speaker 2: listen to this.
35:02
Speaker 11: The motive, according to investigators, is custody of Butler's two children,
35:06
Speaker 11: a custody battle has gone on for more than five years.
35:10
Speaker 11: Father wrangler Rickman, Tiffany Adams's son, was awarded custody of
35:14
Speaker 11: the children, but Rickman was confirmed to be in a
35:17
Speaker 11: rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of the murders.
35:22
Speaker 11: For Veronica, Butler's custody arrangement allowed her supervised visitation with
35:26
Speaker 11: her children every Saturday, and reportedly, according to Butler's attorney,
35:31
Speaker 11: she was likely to be granted unsupervised visitation during an
35:36
Speaker 11: upcoming hearing the Affadavid states that Adams vehemently opposed this
35:41
Speaker 11: and went to great links to plan and purchase items
35:44
Speaker 11: used in Butler and Kelly's murders. It continues, Adam, Cullum, Cole,
35:50
Speaker 11: and Cora were willing to kidnap and murder two victims
35:54
Speaker 11: to limit visitation for Butler.
35:56
Speaker 2: And isn't she you guys who are talking about Adams
35:59
Speaker 2: are talking about Tiffany Michelle Adams, age fifty four, who
36:03
Speaker 2: is the alleged evil mother in law her who plotted this.
36:08
Speaker 2: It seems to think that she's the political boss of
36:11
Speaker 2: the county. I got needs for her political boss or
36:14
Speaker 2: no she's going down because of her own actions, and
36:20
Speaker 2: its seemingly straight back out to Lauren Colin or anybody.
36:23
Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum, you may know the answer to this.
36:26
Speaker 2: It seems as if earlier there were plans to take
36:30
Speaker 2: out a judge. Another relative was concerned about the custody
36:36
Speaker 2: issue and was told that no need for concern't they
36:42
Speaker 2: would not have to worry about the custody battle much longer.
36:44
Speaker 2: Because I'm quoting from the affidavit, Adams, that's the grandma,
36:49
Speaker 2: the mother in law quote had it under control that
36:52
Speaker 2: she knew the path the judge walked to work and
36:57
Speaker 2: would take out Veronica at the drop off. Take out
37:03
Speaker 2: Veronica at the drop off?
37:07
Speaker 3: What about that?
37:08
Speaker 7: Tell it on herself. She has told on herself.
37:11
Speaker 8: I think for the last nine years, I think there's
37:14
Speaker 8: probably been threats all over creation.
37:16
Speaker 7: And let me tell you the most freaking thing for me.
37:20
Speaker 8: This woman, the ex mother in law, cannot stand Veronica.
37:24
Speaker 8: She has made that clear. Veronica is no good for
37:26
Speaker 8: the children. They're not safe with her. She probably doesn't
37:29
Speaker 8: cook and clean, she doesn't take care of them. They're
37:32
Speaker 8: only you know, okay when they're in her custody. When
37:37
Speaker 8: Veronica did not meet pixcept the children up, especially on
37:42
Speaker 8: the daughter's birthday. Remember it was her birthday. She would
37:48
Speaker 8: have been the first person, Tiffany would have been the
37:50
Speaker 8: first person.
37:51
Speaker 7: Calling the court saying she's in contempt. I told y'all
37:55
Speaker 7: she was no good.
37:56
Speaker 8: I've got these children sitting here crying because their mama
37:58
Speaker 8: didn't show up. Is this baby's birthday? When she didn't
38:02
Speaker 8: do that, She didn't make that call. Pitch and a
38:05
Speaker 8: fin that told me right there she's involved.
38:09
Speaker 3: Is nobody worried about?
38:11
Speaker 2: Discussion of killing a judge pops up in the affidavit
38:16
Speaker 2: because I'm looking right at it that we don't have
38:20
Speaker 2: to worry about custody anymore. Because Adams, that would be
38:23
Speaker 2: the mother in law, Tiffany Adams quote, knew the path
38:28
Speaker 2: the judge walked to work. I mean, Cheryl McCollum, and
38:32
Speaker 2: I'm the only one seeing that. Were they going to
38:35
Speaker 2: kill a judge too?
38:36
Speaker 7: It is telling you the links that she was going
38:39
Speaker 7: to go to Nancy.
38:41
Speaker 8: Nothing was going to stop her from keeping those children
38:44
Speaker 8: away from Veronica.
38:47
Speaker 2: She was going to.
38:49
Speaker 8: Have every possible avenue stopped so that she could have
38:54
Speaker 8: these children. Nancy she's supposedly so connected to the courts
38:58
Speaker 8: and to the police, but she has refused to go
39:01
Speaker 8: by any of the court's order. They've basically made her
39:04
Speaker 8: bulletproof for years. She has stopped the mama from seeing
39:08
Speaker 8: them for years. She has refused to do what the
39:10
Speaker 8: court tells her to do. And when it looked to
39:13
Speaker 8: her that she could no longer prow the court or
39:17
Speaker 8: the victim, she killed her.
39:19
Speaker 7: That's how it looks, plain and simple.
39:22
Speaker 2: There is the death penalty in Oklahoma.
39:26
Speaker 3: Kelly Hyman.
39:28
Speaker 2: There have to be special aggravating circumstances in order for
39:33
Speaker 2: a prosecutor to seek a death penalty, and those have
39:36
Speaker 2: to be clearly enunciated far prior to trial in writing.
39:41
Speaker 2: There has to be an announcement that the state is
39:43
Speaker 2: going to seek the death penalty, and there is a
39:46
Speaker 2: very limited number of aggravating circumstances that will suffice. However,
39:52
Speaker 2: more than one body is one of those aggravating circumstances.
39:56
Speaker 10: Ultimately, that will be up to the state to make
39:59
Speaker 10: it a termination whether they believe that they can bring
40:02
Speaker 10: it based on the facts and evidence of the case.
40:06
Speaker 10: But there is a lot of evidence that is coming
40:08
Speaker 10: out and Nancy, to your point about the alleged about
40:11
Speaker 10: the judge, that is very very disconcerting because judges are
40:16
Speaker 10: the ones that preside over the case and they're the
40:19
Speaker 10: ones that make determinations, and so the fact that there
40:23
Speaker 10: is allegations of harming a judge, which is very disconcerting
40:27
Speaker 10: and very upsetting. But ultimately, no one, no matter who
40:31
Speaker 10: you are, is above the law, and people need to
40:33
Speaker 10: be held accountable and ultimately that will be up to
40:36
Speaker 10: the jury of whether they're innocent or guilty.
40:40
Speaker 2: In this case too, our brand joining US former US
40:44
Speaker 2: Marshal Service and author IRV to thank All of this
40:48
Speaker 2: was over what every other weekend or Wednesday to Saturday
40:53
Speaker 2: versus Thursday to Saturday visitations. And you know the so
40:57
Speaker 2: called evil mother in law, evil ranny killer suspect. She's
41:03
Speaker 2: the mother of the bio dad, so she would have
41:06
Speaker 2: access to the grandchildren every time he had visitation or
41:11
Speaker 2: you know, shared custody, so if he got the children
41:16
Speaker 2: half the time, she would have access to the children
41:19
Speaker 2: half of their lives.
41:21
Speaker 3: And in a divorce, you know, for a lot of people,
41:24
Speaker 3: that's pretty good visitation. And all of this over what
41:30
Speaker 3: a few days a month.
41:32
Speaker 12: Nancy, I don't think the time had anything to do
41:36
Speaker 12: with it. I think to this woman, this was obviously
41:41
Speaker 12: about control, and she wanted complete control of when who
41:47
Speaker 12: was going to see those children, and when they were
41:50
Speaker 12: going to see those children, and what the circumstances were
41:53
Speaker 12: going to be. And she wasn't even going to allow
41:56
Speaker 12: a judge to dictate to her how to take care
42:00
Speaker 12: of these children, because she said it, She'll take that
42:04
Speaker 12: judge out, she knows his path to the courthouse. So no, Nancy,
42:10
Speaker 12: it makes no sense other than the fact that the
42:14
Speaker 12: woman was one of complete control over every action concerning
42:20
Speaker 12: those children.
42:20
Speaker 3: Two.
42:21
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns. Your theory that a
42:26
Speaker 2: hammer was used to bludgeon the women dead, most likely
42:30
Speaker 2: about the face in the head. The pain they would
42:35
Speaker 2: have endured preceding their death would have been unbearable, correct.
42:41
Speaker 9: I mean, if she's being tased or shocked with the
42:44
Speaker 9: electronic devices or electric devices, then being beaten with a hammer.
42:49
Speaker 9: Hammer isn't really efficient to kill someone because it's hard
42:53
Speaker 9: to break the skull with a hammer, so they would
42:55
Speaker 9: have to continually strike them multiple times, eventually fracturing the head.
43:00
Speaker 3: Two unarmed, innocent mothers dead. We wait for justice to unfold.
43:07
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,