Latest / The You Project / #1977 The 4WD of Humans - David Gillespie

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#1977 The 4WD of Humans - David Gillespie · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I got a team.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: It's the Bloody You Project, It's Golespo, it's Cooko, it's
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: harp So it's us. It's Wednesday. I don't think we've
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: ever done a midday potty with a Great Man, but
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: today's the day.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: It's groundbreaking, it's revolutionary. Put it in your diary. It's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: five hours.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Earlier than normally. It could be shit, it could be
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: some kind of cognitive breakthrough. Who knows if our brains
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: will work at this time. But now, if I will
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: say that I am jealous of you because I post
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: about a million things a year's about five million less
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: than you do. I will say that.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Because you are if nothing, you are fucking prolific. You
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: are more than that, But you are prolific in the shadows.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah you don't want to, Yeah you don't want people
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  Speaker 2: to not notice you. It's hard with two thousand bloody
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  Speaker 2: posts a day. But anyway, every time I open up
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  Speaker 2: any of my platforms, you're the first thing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Anyway, and you.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Got a lot of approval from the Great Man on LinkedIn.
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  Speaker 2: I've never got any like or comment or anything from him.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: So I'm jealous, and my insecurities raised its ugly head
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: but did you feel good when you got not of approval?
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: I'm on claud nine right now. I'm floating. I'm floating, David.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: It doesn't give away compliments easily. What is that about, Gillespoe?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Do you like to just kind of keep them up?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Bathe?
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: I think good thoughts about you, Craig. You don't need
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: to worry about that. I just it never gets to
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: the point where I move my hand onto the mouse
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: and click the button that says like on one of
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: your posts. But TIFF's post I agree with, and I
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: think it opens an important conversation, and I just I
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  Speaker 4: don't know I was motivated to actually express that.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: No, good for you.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: You, please don't comment on any My shit didn't feel weird. Now,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: so you put up a photo of a video of
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you in the boxing ring coaching a lady teaching.
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  Speaker 1: A lady, And then so why don't you read what
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you wrote?
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  Speaker 2: And then I'm curious to see why the great man
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: got out of his bean bag and found his mouse
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  Speaker 2: and clicked on your thing.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: I wanted to try and read it with a little
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  Speaker 3: bit more clarity than I stumbled through it before, and.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Could Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't when you read
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: it before. I wasn't entirely convinced you'd written it.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: A little bit of ai.
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  Speaker 3: You know, when your brain goes faster or slower than
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: your mouth and you just end up in a word bloody. See,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: I'm in and again, I'm just going to go ahead
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: and read it right now. Teaching blokes to box is cool,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: but teaching gals, well, there's a special place in my
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  Speaker 3: heart just for that, a place that thrives when it
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: sees women learning how to use their bodies, to hold
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  Speaker 3: their ground, to generate power, to wear hit, and to
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  Speaker 3: stare in the face of combat and not even think
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  Speaker 3: to flinch. The physical stuff etches its way into the psyche,
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  Speaker 3: and strong confident, resilient bodies become strong, confident, resilient minds.
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  Speaker 3: Little girls don't get taught that too, busy being conditioned
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  Speaker 3: to be nice, quiet, agreeable and pretty well. If that,
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  Speaker 3: it sure doesn't keep us safe.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think about I want to start with you, Cookie,
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  Speaker 2: What do you think about like teaching girls to be
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I agree with what you said, but teaching girls to
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  Speaker 2: be aggressive and to like, how do you know when
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: let's say there's somebody who's got bad intentions?
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  Speaker 1: When do you know when to go fuck you?
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to punch you in the face, or I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to sprint in the other direction, or is there
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  Speaker 2: no rule of thumb?
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  Speaker 3: No, well, I don't think, but it is as aggressive,
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  Speaker 3: like I don't think of boxing in that way. And
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  Speaker 3: when I write that post, it's more about the ability
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  Speaker 3: to use like I said in it, use that physicality
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  Speaker 3: to hold your ground, to be assertive, to feel like
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  Speaker 3: you own something which is your body that can be
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  Speaker 3: used to protect you. And that's just not typical for women.
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  Speaker 3: Like sometimes I have taught a woman to and I'm
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  Speaker 3: not talking about sparring. This is just padwork and talking
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  Speaker 3: about the technique of throwing a punch and exerting physical force.
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  Speaker 3: But I remember teaching a lady just to hit the
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  Speaker 3: pads once and she hit them a few times and
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  Speaker 3: she just looked up to me with tears in her
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  Speaker 3: eyes and she said that, Wow, that felt really good.
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  Speaker 3: You know when you watch a woman do that and
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  Speaker 3: almost be shocked at the feeling of I'm allowed to
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  Speaker 3: do this, it's really powerful.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, what resonated with you? David?
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  Speaker 4: I think that there's a line in there about we
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  Speaker 4: don't teach young girls to do that, and it occurred
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  Speaker 4: to me, we don't teach young boys to do it either,
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  Speaker 4: but they have a bunch of hormones that have them
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  Speaker 4: do it on autopilot. And the reason it resonated with
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  Speaker 4: the post resonated with me. Obviously, I have three daughters
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  Speaker 4: of my own, but I guess more particularly, all three
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  Speaker 4: of them play a sport called European handball, which is
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  Speaker 4: a full contact indoor sport sort of like football that
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  Speaker 4: played with your hands. And in Europe it's a massive
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  Speaker 4: sport and here it's very very small. But getting women
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  Speaker 4: to play that sport well is a challenge for exactly
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  Speaker 4: that reason, which is that what we often get is
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  Speaker 4: girls who play netball and who come and have a
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  Speaker 4: bit of a go, and then you're asking them to
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  Speaker 4: play a full contact sport, and by full contact I
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  Speaker 4: mean AFL type full contact where you will be hit,
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  Speaker 4: and you will be hit hard, and you have to
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  Speaker 4: be able to give it out as well. You have
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  Speaker 4: to be able to charge at a line at full
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  Speaker 4: speed and be prepared to be tackled, and that does
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  Speaker 4: not come naturally to young girls at all. So you'll
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  Speaker 4: have them. You'll often be standing on the side of
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  Speaker 4: a sideline of a handball game between young girls and
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  Speaker 4: have coaches yelling things like it's not fucking netball, meaning
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  Speaker 4: stop standing in front of people waving your arms around
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  Speaker 4: and tackle them. And that's I like a game that
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  Speaker 4: teaches girls to overcome that. That teaches them that they
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  Speaker 4: can be assertive. And that doesn't mean hitting people. It
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  Speaker 4: doesn't mean being violent, but it does mean being assertive.
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  Speaker 4: It means what Tiff was talking about before, which is
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  Speaker 4: owning that you have a right to be there and
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  Speaker 4: that you have a right to assert yourself and it's
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  Speaker 4: something that boys do naturally at that age. We don't
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  Speaker 4: have this problem with boys the same age because you know,
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  Speaker 4: in our club we have kids aged sort of from
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  Speaker 4: ten upwards. We don't have that problem with any of
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  Speaker 4: the boys because the boys go at it like a
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  Speaker 4: bulleter gate and take whatever consequences come. And it's not
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  Speaker 4: that they've received a different upbringing or a different training
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  Speaker 4: or any of that. It psycho or bs that you
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  Speaker 4: like to go on with. It's that they're they're full
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  Speaker 4: of testosterone, and testosterone removes that barrier and provides an
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  Speaker 4: automatic injection of assertiveness. Boys don't even contemplate the possibility
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  Speaker 4: that they should be there or they shouldn't be asserting themselves,
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  Speaker 4: because they've got hormones telling them to do it on autopilot.
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  Speaker 4: And that is, after all, why women bothered inventing boys.
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  Speaker 4: So humans are all female, right, so at base for
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  Speaker 4: a female species, and the males are an aberration created
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  Speaker 4: by evolution to provide a sort of dispensable, destructible, four
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  Speaker 4: wheel drive version of the human species, so that you
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  Speaker 4: can send out to do dangerous stuff and it doesn't
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  Speaker 4: matter too much if they don't all come back because
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  Speaker 4: they're not the ones having children. So from a biological perspective,
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  Speaker 4: that's the purpose of males, which is to do the
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  Speaker 4: dangerous stuff with less concern for the danger. And the
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  Speaker 4: hormone that does that is testosterone, so it is simultaneously
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  Speaker 4: causes them to be assertive and so in a social
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  Speaker 4: situation has them go forward without fear, which is what
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  Speaker 4: TIFF's talking about. But it's also dangerous, which is you know,
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  Speaker 4: it's why you know, most of the injuries in teenagers
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  Speaker 4: occur to males. It's why most of the deaths in
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  Speaker 4: teenagers are males. It's why most of the crime committed
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  Speaker 4: by teenagers is by males. It's because they have a
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  Speaker 4: different risk assessment equation going on in their brain, and
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  Speaker 4: that different equation is driven by the presence of testosterone.
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  Speaker 4: And if you want to start extending this out into
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  Speaker 4: other things that people worry about, you know, the gender
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  Speaker 4: pay gap is all about this. So the reason that
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  Speaker 4: women are paid less than men is because they don't
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  Speaker 4: ask for it. It's as simple as that men are
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  Speaker 4: more likely to ask for more money and get it
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  Speaker 4: because they ask. Women are more likely not to because
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  Speaker 4: they're not assertive. The reason they're not assertive is because
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  Speaker 4: they don't have a load of testosterone coursing through their arteries.
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  Speaker 4: And one of the real tricks coming back to handball
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  Speaker 4: that we try to build in is teaching girls to
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  Speaker 4: be assertive in the sport within the rules of the sport,
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  Speaker 4: not to intentionally hurt anyone or break the rules, but
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  Speaker 4: be assertive, know what the rules are allow you to do,
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  Speaker 4: and push it to the limits. And it takes years
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  Speaker 4: to do that. It takes years to get them to
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  Speaker 4: the point where they can play as effectively with aggression
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  Speaker 4: as required. And what TIFF's talking about, and the reason
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  Speaker 4: I liked her post is training women to overcome their
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  Speaker 4: natural reluctance to assert themselves and within the rules of
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  Speaker 4: the game, whatever the game is, they're playing them the
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  Speaker 4: way a male would automatically.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, is this for both of you? Is it hard?
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  Speaker 2: Do you think for women to learn that in inverted commons?
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  Speaker 2: Because it's not natural, it's not biologically hardwired. And yes,
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  Speaker 2: I know you're not encouraged to do that sociologically growing
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  Speaker 2: up TIF, but also you grow up without testoster. I
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  Speaker 2: mean you have some, but you know what I mean,
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  Speaker 2: there's not that biological thing going on that kind of
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  Speaker 2: mitigates intelligence in the brain where we just become, as
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  Speaker 2: David said, the four wheel drive version of the human species.
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  Speaker 2: Do you think it's hard for girls to learn that?
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  Speaker 3: I think it is. You know, I was just thinking.
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  Speaker 3: When I was young, I remember giving basketball a try,
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  Speaker 3: and I distinctively remember turning up a few times and
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  Speaker 3: just not knowing the rules of this thing, of this
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  Speaker 3: connection with boxing and boundaries, and that it taught me
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  Speaker 3: boundaries and gave me a a place to express and
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  Speaker 3: learn about them where I didn't in life. And I
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  Speaker 3: remember this basketball experience I kind of didn't know when,
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  Speaker 3: how aggressive, how you're allowed to play the game, and
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  Speaker 3: so I might have got in trouble a couple of
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  Speaker 3: times for getting fouls or whatever, which I didn't understand.
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  Speaker 3: I just stopped playing. So boxing, for me, I loved
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  Speaker 3: it because you told exactly what to do, and it's
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  Speaker 3: a real sink or swim like. You get hurt if
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  Speaker 3: you don't assert yourself, so you have to. But there
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  Speaker 3: are rules. These are the rules. The bell goes, this
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  Speaker 3: is what you're this is how you're allowed to do it,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: when you're allowed to do it, and if you do
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  Speaker 3: it wrong, someone will tell you. And if you don't
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  Speaker 3: give it have a go, you're going to get hurt. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: so it was a great It was a great breeding
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  Speaker 3: ground for that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think you're right. I don't think we don't. We're
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: not buy wired that way as kids, and then on
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  Speaker 3: top of that, we're not conditioned that way either.
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  Speaker 4: The reason I think it matters is not so that
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: you can be a better boxer or a better handball player,
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  Speaker 4: because that sport is just a microcosm of the real world.
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  Speaker 4: It's the skills you learn, the assertiveness a girl learns
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  Speaker 4: on a court can transfer into her real life, which
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  Speaker 4: is to take that assertiveness and overcome the natural reluctance
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  Speaker 4: to push themselves forward in real life. And that's why
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  Speaker 4: I want my daughters to do that. It's why I
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  Speaker 4: want That's why I'm glad they play that sport, because
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  Speaker 4: they are practicing something weekly that hopefully bleeds into their
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  Speaker 4: real life so that when it comes time for them
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  Speaker 4: to ask for a pay rise or in some other
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  Speaker 4: way assert themselves in reality, they've got They've already got
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  Speaker 4: that built in.
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  Speaker 2: What do you This is a bit of a left
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  Speaker 2: tern but knowing how different boys and girls are growing
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: up biologically, biochemically, behaviorally, even cognitively, we know that boys
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: are slower to develop that way. We've never really chatted
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: a whole lot about education with you and about you.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Know, what is the ideal way or what are you know?
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  Speaker 2: How does traditional kind of education marry up with what
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: different kids, not just different personalities, but different genders need,
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  Speaker 2: like what is optimal for them? Because clearly for some
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: boys the classroom is just not a great fit at all,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: and for some girls, I guess, but it seems like
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  Speaker 2: girls are better in inverted commons has a mass generalization
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  Speaker 2: at school.
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  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts.
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  Speaker 2: On that and biology and trying to figure out how
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  Speaker 2: to make it equally valuable for all kids.
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  Speaker 4: So you'll be surprised to learn that I've written book
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: about this. In the book I wrote about the education
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: system called free Schools, I've got a section on what
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  Speaker 4: the research says about what works for boys and girls.
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  Speaker 4: So there's quite a lot of research in this area
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: because firstly because of the great debate about whether or
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: not you should go to single sex schools or co
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: ed schools, and also the question about One of the
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: things that's been observed consistently in the research is that girls.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: You take same demographically matched boys and girls, so you know,
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: and demographic matching is important because in failing education systems
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: like the Australian one, the best predictor of outcomes is
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: the wealth of your parents. So you want to demographically
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: match the kids when you do any kind of studies.
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: So if you take demographically matched boys and girls and
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: look at their results, you find the boys consistently do
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  Speaker 4: worse than girls on average until the beginning of puberty,
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  Speaker 4: and then what happens is it reverses. So then what
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: happens is the girls, for some reason who are cruising
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: along getting a's, start getting b's and then c's, and
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  Speaker 4: their performance and I'm talking average, you see, there's always
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: individuals exceptions to this, but on average, the girl's performance
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: seems to have peaked at around the startup puberty, which
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: is usually around about year nine, and then starts to
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: tail off into year twelve, so that by the end
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: of year twelve, the boys are consistently outperforming the girls.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: And you know, there's been all sorts of theories about
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: what's going on there. The one that appeals to me
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: is that once puberty starts, and we've talked about before
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: the what happens during puberty is that a control hormone
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: called gabba gaba gets turned off in order for puberty
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: to start happening. It's the thing that stops you becoming
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: addicted to things before you are, so it makes turning
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: it off makes you much more sensitive to dopamine and
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: the rewards that come from dopamine. One of the biggest
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: rewards that comes from dopamine for teenage girls is the
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: approval of others. So peer pressure becomes extremely important to
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: teenage girls once they enter puberty much more important than boys.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Boys do care what others think of them, but nowhere
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: near as much as girls do. And in particular, what
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: starts to happen there is that two things occur. A
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: peer group pressure towards average performance, not standing out, not
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: being a tall poppy, etc. Starts to develop, and also
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: impressing boys starts to become something that is important that
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: previously wasn't. So what a boy thinks about you starts
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: to matter, whereas pride to puberty it didn't. And so
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: from a biochemical perspective, you can see that trajectory happening
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: where the gabba kicks in dopamine rewards become much more important.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: Primary source of dopamine rewards is oxytocin in females, particularly
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: teenage females, and oxytocin is generated by the approval of others.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: So that kind of thing occurring seems to explain that
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: that trajectory where women females outperform males up until puberty,
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: and then after puberty they don't. It's not that the
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: males are getting smarter, it's that they're still on the
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: same trajectory, but the females are dropping off.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, that is so interesting. How do people like I
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: feel like a lot of people would push back against
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: that thinking, you know, is that that comes a point where,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: you know, it's really important to girls that they get
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: boys approval. I feel like they're all going to but not.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: Just boys, sorry, not just boys. Everyone's approval, but the
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: boys are definitely a factor in it as well.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it seems interesting to me that at
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the time when guys get into puberty, which is when
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: testosterone rockets, that they don't go more like they become
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: better at better students, and.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: They're not better students, they're just it's just not affecting them.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: So it's that puberty isn't taking them off their game.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: So the ones that we're going to do well keep
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: on doing well, whereas what's happening with the girls is
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: that they are dropping off the game. So the girls
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: who were doing well are becoming distracted by the need
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: to impress other people.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: And did you.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Say that that the girls don't want to stand out,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: like it becomes almost more attractive meet theocrity becomes more
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: attractive than being a high achievement.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: So the way oxytocin works is that you're rewarded for
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: obtaining the approval of other people, and in particular, you're
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: rewarded for obtaining the approval of people you care about,
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: and peer group becomes extremely important to teenage girls because
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: of that pressure. So it's that it's important to do
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: the things that your peers regard as important. Now, some girls,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: you know it might be in I don't know, mensa
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: or something and be hanging out with a group of
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: extremely intelligent girls for whom it is really really important
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: that you be extremely intelligent and that same dynamic will work.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: But that's not what happens on average. On average, most
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: people are average, and being average is the important thing,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: not standing out from that crowd.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, if I feel like you would have
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: been a bit of a lone wolf in your town.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I couldn't see you hanging out too much with the
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: girls just I don't know, gas bag, and not not
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean. But I couldn't see you
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: in a bit of a click.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: No, no, I was one of those people, was hanging
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: out with all sorts, but often out with the boys. Shocker,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: absolute shocker, often out riding box with the boys and
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: getting into trouble.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, you were of course you were.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And David with your three girls, since they've gotten into
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: European handball, have you seen any shift in them in
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: terms of personality and thinking and you know behavior, any,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I mean any they're still not boys.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: Let's put it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Let's not that then they're still.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Not boys like I've got three boys as well, and
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: they're still not on autopilot assertive, right, but they're more
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: able to be convinced to be have They still have
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: to be talked into it, they have to have it
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: pointed out to them, but they're not afraid of it,
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: which I think is the difference. You're not going to
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: give them an automatic injection of assertiveness, but you are
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: going to show them what it feels like and what
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: TIF described before about you have to tell them. You
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: have to let them feel what it feels like and
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: then come back to them and say, remember how that felt, Well,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: you can and should do that again. But you're not
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: going to give them an automatic right on autopilot. I
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: automatically assert myself that that still doesn't happen.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: When you come when we go back full circle now
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: back to you Tip in the boxing ring with that
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: lady and lots of ladies that you do and have trained.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Is it like they on some level go, I didn't
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: know I could do this, bea Is this okay to
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: be given approval or permission, not that they need it,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: but to punch it and be aggressive and all of
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: those things which are part of the human experience.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think you know, when you really
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: teach them how to do it and they feel it,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: you can tell it's like they just they just look like, Oh,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: I never knew this was a thing. I've never felt
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: like this before. It's amazing.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: It's kind of therapeutic, I think as well, Like apart
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: from the obvious one of it's fun punching shit, and
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I'm developing skills and building it's his punch fund to
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: punch it, but like emotionally and psychologically and even sociologically,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: to change internally, like as a byproduct of doing something
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: you maybe never thought you would do, but you're doing it.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever thrown a punch? Gillispow,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: not that I recall. Are you a lover?
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: I love it? Not a fighter? Obviously?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, And you could talk your way out of anything.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: I've never felt the need to. Let's put it that way. Yeah,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: it's and in that I've been fortunate.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I guess were you a nerd at school or were
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: you cool?
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it was probably a nerd, isis f Well,
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: I don't think it was either. Really. I was just
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: ordinary at school, you know, but there were situations where
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: I probably could have ended up being punched, but tended
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: to be able to, as you say, bullshit my way
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: out of it.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Me too. I'm a love I believe that tip never
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: throwing a punch. Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And so when you were not getting punched in the
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: face when you're a teenager at school, when you were
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: like fourteen fifteen, you just hit puberty, what did you
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: think you were going to do?
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: What was like?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Did you come out of school going laws for me?
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Or did you fall into it or was.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: I No, I had absolutely no idea what I was
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: going to do.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I wanted you more about programming and computers, and.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: I was certainly I was messing around with that stuff.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: But I got a score that would have allowed me
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: to do medicine in school, and shocker, and I didn't,
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: mostly because I didn't feel I knew I wanted to
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: do it. Everyone else thought I was insane for not
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: doing it. But the reason I did law was because
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: I felt I still had options. You know, I could
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: always change my mind later. You do law, it's kind
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: of like a general purpose qualification. And even there, I
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: wasn't really committed to it because I did commerce or so,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: you know, I could have been in an accountant too,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: And at the end of third year I almost did
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: drop the rest and be an accountant. But then I thought, yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: it's committing to a path. So at every point I've
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: always taken the choice that doesn't cause me to commit
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: to a particular thing.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I feel like, though you're pretty pretty fascinated with the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: body biology and not liking psychology is bullshit, but physiology, Yeah, as.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: The further I go, I'm agreeing with you.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: Well, the biochemistry to me has so many explanations. I mean,
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: I'm always fascinated with I like to understand how things work.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: And we're at an exciting time in biochemistry and neurology
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: because we're finally getting to a point where we really
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: understand how some things work. After decades and decades of
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: people sort of flapping their arms and running around and
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: coming up with theories, we're starting to get the tools
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: that allow us to actually see things working. And for
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: the same reason I love astronomy too, and looking outwards
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: as well. But we don't have anywhere near the science
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: about that that we do about starting to have about
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: the human body, and so there's a lot less answers
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: out in space. But right now, in this point in history,
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: we're starting to get real answers about how the human
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: body and brain works. And I find that really fascinating,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: you know, to find like the article that we briefly
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: mentioned before that we're not going to talk about much,
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: but if anyone wants to read about it, I've written
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: about psoriasis and how omega six fats cause that, and
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: how the science is now so good that I can
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: definitively say to you because of a study that was
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: published a month or two ago, it is absolutely definitively
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: caused by seed oils, not correlation, none of that crap.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: You know, two hundred thousand people definitively prove to be
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: caused by seed oils. And that's where we're getting to
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: with the science on this stuff. It's no longer speculation.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: We actually know how it works and can prove it.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I should probably ask you this off there, but fuck
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: it while you're here. Do you have the title of
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: that paper.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: You well, the link is of course in the article.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, so we just read the articles called
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the Fire on Your Skin and it's about psoriasis and
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: it's at raisin Hell.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: So if you just google raisin Hell, the less be substack,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: you'll find it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: We'll go to substack. Perfect full circle, Tiff.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Do you feel good now that you've got the Gillespie approval,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the nod, the ticket.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: I'm done for the week now I might have the
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: rest of the week off.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Treat myself now, David. It's free Schools dot org.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: Right, yes, yes, that's the the charity that I built
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: as a result of writing that book about the education.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: That is a really, really expansive and valuable website. Go
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: have a look at that everyone, Free Schools dot Org.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you as always, sir, absolute pleasure. Enjoy the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: rest of your day you too.