Latest / Karl and Crew / Being Prepared to Fight Spiritual Warfare with Dr. Karl Payne and The Prayer Experiment with Pastor Matt Smallbone

Transcript

Being Prepared to Fight Spiritual Warfare with Dr. Karl Payne and The Prayer Experiment with Pastor Matt Smallbone · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
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  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
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  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
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  S2: Cold spaghetti's. Great. Okay.
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  S3: Okay, I disagree. I guess not. No, certainly it is not. No. Okay. Well, man,
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  S3: I'm going back.
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  S2: To my bachelor days. I guess I thought cold spaghetti
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  S2: was universally loved.
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  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
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  S4: That's just. It feels like.
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  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S4: that would make it worth it.
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  S5: Our own way never ever works because it's apart from
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  S5: the life source, which is God.
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  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S4: Hey. Good morning, I'm Ali, this is Carl and crew.
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  S4: Is there anything worse than being caught unprepared for something?
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  S3: No.
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  S4: You didn't know what was coming. So you don't quite
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  S4: have what you need.
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  S5: Or you knew what was coming, and you just left
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  S5: it a little too long, saying, I got this. And, uh,
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  S5: then you didn't.
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  S4: You know, I spent my weekend at, uh, middle school
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  S4: basketball tournament, which was lots of fun. Drove to the
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  S4: great state of Indiana. Oh, really? And your. I was
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  S4: in your neck of the woods. Super die.
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  S6: I wish I would have known that it was.
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  S4: I was in the Fort Wayne area. They had a big. Oh,
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  S4: you were a little. Yeah. You were a little bit further. Yeah.
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  S4: So there was a big, big tournament for seventh through
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  S4: 11th grade. So I have a seventh grade boy. So
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  S4: his team did five games in two days.
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  S5: That's incredible.
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  S4: They really pack it in on these tournaments. So one
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  S4: thing that because I've done enough of these basketball tournaments
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  S4: for both of my kids who are really into it,
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  S4: I carry a large purse that is stocked with everything. Everything.
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  S4: I have a whole med kit where I have anything
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  S4: for number one, anything from a little headache to an
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  S4: upset tummy. Like I've got my whole I've got a pouch. Literally.
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  S4: It stays in my medicine cabinet. And then for a trip,
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  S4: it goes right into the purse. I also have applesauce
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  S4: and snacks for the last minute. Okay, I need something
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  S4: a little bit in between games. And so I'm like
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  S4: motioning to my son. I'm like, do you need an applesauce?
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  S4: He's like, I'm good, mom. I'm good. Mom 13 now. So.
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  S4: So maybe my preparation feels over the top and I'm like,
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  S4: then I'm motioning like the a drinking motion. Like, do
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  S4: you need water as I'm like across the gym, motioning
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  S4: like the upturn, like a glass to the lips. And
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  S4: he's like, I'm good, I'm good. Big thumbs up. I
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  S4: don't like to be caught unprepared. So do I often
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  S4: need most of what's in my purse? No I don't.
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  S4: Nine times out of ten I never have to go
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  S4: into my bag of tricks. But but.
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  S6: Yeah, I get.
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  S4: It. Does anybody need Tylenol? Does anyone need a band aid?
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  S4: If you got an applesauce pouch. I got you. I
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  S4: like to be prepared. What area of your life do
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  S4: you feel like? You tend to just be prepared for
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  S4: your anticipating. And if if you're if ever there's a need,
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  S4: you're ready.
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  S5: Oh, goodness. That's a great question. See, I.
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  S4: Stats. You're always prepared with some stats.
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  S5: Yeah. I've usually always got some stats, but in terms
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  S5: of like practical reality of things. I'd love to fly
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  S5: by the seat of my pants. Okay.
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  S4: Do you. Are you prepared? Like, do you have extra supplies?
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  S4: And you've got a daughter, so.
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  S5: Yeah. You know, I guess.
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  S4: You've got supplies in your car for the emergency. Like
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  S4: diaper changes and clothing changes.
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  S5: Yeah, I think that that's probably the best. Uh, well, no, I, hey,
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  S5: I help with that.
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  S6: No, I didn't mean.
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  S5: It.
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  S6: That way, I apologize.
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  S5: No, I know you're fine. I'm just kidding. No, I,
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  S5: I definitely, I guess with my daughter. Yeah. That would
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  S5: be then where, where it's the most right now. Uh,
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  S5: whenever we leave the house, it's like, okay, let's, let's
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  S5: get like an entire suitcase of things ready in this
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  S5: diaper bag. Uh, to be able to take with us. Yeah. Yes.
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  S5: It's the diaper bag.
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  S4: When you're in that stage you like, you don't go
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  S4: out of the house without toting, like, a hefty trash
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  S4: bag full of stuff.
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  S5: Absolutely.
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  S4: And just in.
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  S5: Case, I mean, Lord forbid we forget the stuffed bunny
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  S5: on the way out the door, cause you get down
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  S5: to the car and you buckle her in and she goes,
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  S5: where's my bunny? And I go, oh, I also then
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  S5: have to unbuckle you and take. I can't just run
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  S5: upstairs real quick, so we gotta unbuckle and pull her
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  S5: out and then come back up and get it and. Yeah,
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  S5: it's a whole thing. So you better remember everything.
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  S4: Preparation. What do you typically prepared for?
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  S6: Probably more than anything, I think it's just the years
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  S6: of commuting and traffic is just being on the road.
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  S4: Okay.
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  S6: Like knowing exits, knowing alternates, knowing things of that nature,
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  S6: you know, that kind of thing. Making sure there's a
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  S6: kit in the back.
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  S4: Okay. So do you carry. I was wondering, do you
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  S4: like because you do a lot of commuting. Do you
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  S4: have like your car stocked with the things you're supposed to.
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  S4: Like the, I mean, what are you supposed to have?
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  S6: Air pump. Um, you know, something that flashes jumper cables
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  S6: for sure, that kind of thing. I mean, I know
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  S6: there's like a little bit of like a mini med
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  S6: kit inside that kit, per se. Yeah. I don't know
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  S6: what a band aid is going to do me if
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  S6: my tire is flat, but, you know, I've got that
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  S6: band aid emergency flares.
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  S4: Do you have any emergency flares?
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  S6: I do have one. I do have one in there.
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  S4: Okay, that's next level.
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  S5: That is next level.
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  S6: There is little.
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  S4: Mini traffic cones.
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  S6: I have a triangle. I'm supposed to sit on the
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  S6: back of your car. Yeah. You know, it's supposed to
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  S6: sit on your bumper kind of thing or whatever.
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  S4: So impressive. Truly impressive. Okay, here's my question for you, bunker.
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  S4: You are listening. What area do you tend to be
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  S4: pretty prepared for? Are you the mom with the well
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  S4: stocked purse? Do you have your car stocked? Are you
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  S4: maybe a prepper? Do you have like six months worth of, uh,
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  S4: worth of canned goods in your pantry? What area do
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  S4: you tend to be pretty prepared? 805. Five. Five, 78, 98.
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  S4: Just shoot us a text message on this one. I'm
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  S4: just curious. 805 557898. As we've already been talking about
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  S4: this morning, we're going to talk about preparation all week
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  S4: and looking at Scripture, the different areas where we are
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  S4: called to be prepared. It's great to have a well
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  S4: stocked purse and a well stocked car, but believe it
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  S4: or not, and of course you believe it because you
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  S4: listen to Moody Radio. There are far more important things
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  S4: that sometimes we can overlook when it comes to preparation.
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  S4: Today we're going to talk about what it looks like
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  S4: to be prepared for battle prepared for this spiritual war
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  S4: that we are in. Shoot us a text message, though.
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  S4: What are you prepared for? 800 555, 7898?
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  S1: It's Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
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  S4: Well, we've got some, uh, some prepared listeners as you've
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  S4: texted in this morning, always prepared with water, uh, toilet paper.
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  S6: You know.
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  S5: Back to the Covid days.
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  S4: Yeah. You know, and long before the Covid days, my,
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  S4: my grandmother, who passed away at 101 years old a
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  S4: couple years ago, she had this thing really her ever
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  S4: since I can remember where she was always, she always
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  S4: had way more toilet paper and soap than she needed.
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  S4: I mean, she grew up in an era where, where
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  S4: she what her background, things were a little bit more scarce.
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  S4: And so she was always worried about running out of
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  S4: soap and toilet paper. So you would open her like
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  S4: little supply closet. It was like, why do you need
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  S4: all this toilet paper? And then, you know, so she
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  S4: was way.
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  S6: You get it.
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  S4: Way ahead of her time with Covid. Let's see. Uh,
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  S4: absolutely love being prepared, says 9224 with packing for travel,
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  S4: but as minimal and light as possible. It's almost like
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  S4: a craft or a challenge before my trips. My husband,
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  S4: this one says, is a serious prepper. Uh, if everything
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  S4: for every if everything goes down batteries, flashlights, food, meds,
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  S4: everything for six months, reserves.
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  S5: Go for.
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  S6: It. Way to.
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  S4: Go. Always have 20 to $30 in small bills. Good idea.
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  S6: That's a good idea.
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  S4: Ziploc and sticky notes and pens. This is a good one.
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  S4: 5072 always prepared with gospel tracks in English and Spanish.
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  S5: There you go.
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  S6: Nice.
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  S4: Fantastic. Great preparation When we think about being prepared, we
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  S4: want to be prepared for battle. You know, it's easy
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  S4: sometimes to forget, particularly, I think, in the context that
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  S4: we live in. And we oftentimes we bring in phenomenal guests.
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  S4: We've gotten a lot of updates from Iran lately, but
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  S4: also when we speak with who's our guy from voice
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  S4: of the martyrs is Todd.
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  S6: Todd Nettleton. Yes.
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  S4: So we get a glimpse often into what what's happening
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  S4: around the world, the persecuted church, uh, in our current
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  S4: Western context. We we do not see a lot of
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  S4: physical persecution. God has allowed us to live in a
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  S4: country where we can speak the gospel freely. And so
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  S4: it can, it can be easy to, to kind of
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  S4: put to the back of your mind that we are
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  S4: in this spiritual war, that as Christ followers, we are
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  S4: in a battle. How do we prepare? Coming up, let's
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  S4: talk about it here on Carl and Crew.
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  S1: Your shot of hope to get you through the day.
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  S6: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
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  S6: to stay in your past, and I want you to
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  S6: know and believe that today.
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  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
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  S4: Are you prepared for battle? You know, when we think
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  S4: about the life of the believer, we know that there's
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  S4: the seen realm. It's what we can see right in
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  S4: front of us. And there's the unseen realm. So often
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  S4: we see what what's in front of us, and we
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  S4: mistake the battle as a flesh and blood battle. Correct
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  S4: battle against people. We get frustrated sometimes with systems that
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  S4: seem broken, seem unfair, and we can feel like we
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  S4: can start to feel kind of defeated or angry or bitter.
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  S5: Yeah, we have a hard time. I I think we
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  S5: have a hard time looking at people the right way
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  S5: because of how we misappropriate the battle.
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  S4: So I want to take you to a very familiar
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  S4: passage of scripture. If you've been reading your Bible for
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  S4: any length of time, this is, uh, in Ephesians, starting
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  S4: with verse ten. I'm going to read this actually in
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  S4: the New Living Translation says a final word. Be strong
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  S4: in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on
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  S4: all of God's armor so that you will be able
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  S4: to stand firm against all strategies of the devil. For
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  S4: we are not fighting against flesh and blood enemies, but
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  S4: against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against
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  S4: mighty powers in this dark world and against evil spirits
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  S4: in the heavenly places. Verse 13 now therefore put on
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  S4: every piece of God's armor, so you will be able
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  S4: to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then
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  S4: after the battle, you will be standing firm. Stand your ground,
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  S4: putting on the belt of truth and the body armor
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  S4: of God's righteousness for shoes. Put on the peace that
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  S4: comes from the Good News so that you will be
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  S4: fully prepared. In addition to all of these, hold up
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  S4: the shield of faith to stop the fiery arrows of
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  S4: the devil. Put on salvation as your helmet and take
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  S4: the sword of the spirit, which is the Word of God.
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  S4: And then verse 18, pray in the spirit at all
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  S4: times and on every occasion. Stay alert and be persistent
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  S4: in your prayers for all believers everywhere. Now, if you
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  S4: have ever done any kind of Sunday school, I remember
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  S4: when my kids did a Sunday school lesson and they
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  S4: brought home a little little soldier.
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  S5: Oh yeah.
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  S4: Those like.
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  S5: This point to and identify.
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  S6: Things. Yep.
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  S4: Where they've got they've got the helmet and then they've
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  S4: got the breastplate. And then they've got the shoes and the,
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  S4: and the shield of faith and then the sword of
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  S4: the spirit. You know, it was interesting doing a little
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  S4: bit of a deep dive on this, because one thing
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  S4: I think that I had definitely missed or this is
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  S4: not us putting on something as if we have the
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  S4: strength to fight, right? I think because of the language
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  S4: of the the putting on of the armor, we can
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  S4: forget this part. This a couple little places where it
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  S4: reminds us that this is God's armor.
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  S5: That's very true. A good point.
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  S4: This is not me trying to be strong in of myself.
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  S4: He is the source of everything. Another interesting thing I
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  S4: learned about this passage is that although, yes, you think
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  S4: about like a Roman soldier with these different pieces of armor,
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  S4: a shield and and a helmet. This actually is drawing
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  S4: from a Old Testament, a lot of different Old Testament
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  S4: passages that were. Isaiah is describing God as our warrior king.
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  S5: Oh, cool.
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  S4: Which I thought was really interesting. So I got an
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  S4: article that I'm going to link you to, to because it's,
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  S4: it's a little too nuanced to try to break down
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  S4: on radio, but I do want to march through a
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  S4: couple of these different things that we are called to
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  S4: put on. You know, you start with the putting on
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  S4: the truth, the belt of truth. We can think about
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  S4: this as our soul. As one commentator wrote, being wrapped
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  S4: in the truth of Scripture. And as I marched through these,
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  S4: I want you to think about how practically this would
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  S4: prepare you for any kind of battle, any kind of
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  S4: spiritual battle that you would come up against when your
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  S4: soul is wrapped in truth of who God is, you
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  S4: are more prepared to stand. The flip side is, if
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  S4: you don't know the truth of God's Word, how prepared
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  S4: can you be when the battle comes?
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  S5: I mean, absolutely, you got to think about the fact
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  S5: that the Satan's never just going to stop talking to us.
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  S5: And so if we don't have the right things to
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  S5: be able to combat him, then, then what are we doing?
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  S5: We you know, in all honesty, the the belt is
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  S5: the thing that keeps the pants up. So without the belt.
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  S5: You're stuck in a in a very vulnerable position. Now
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  S5: you've lost half your armour right there. Yeah. Just because
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  S5: the belt isn't on.
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  S4: The breastplate of righteousness. Now we know that positionally we
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  S4: are made righteous or made right with God because of Jesus.
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  S4: So there's that. And then there's also this spirit filled
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  S4: pursuit of growth and righteousness. So we are positionally made
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  S4: right with God. But then also by the power of
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  S4: the spirit we are growing in right living, right?
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  S6: Yeah. We should be. So that's our that's.
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  S4: The breastplate and then the shoes, the gospel shoes. This
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  S4: is kind of a curious, curious one. So we are
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  S4: ready to share the gospel. You remember the passage that
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  S4: talks about the blessed are the feet that bring.
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  S6: Good news.
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  S4: The good news that's in Isaiah. So those gospel shoes
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  S4: hearkens back to those the feet that bring good news.
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  S4: So part of our preparation is having those gospel shoes
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  S4: ready to share our faith with others. And we have
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  S4: the shield of faith. And I love this one because
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  S4: God ultimately is our shield. Where do we run to
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  S4: be safe? We run into him. So this is not
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  S4: me out there trying to hold on to this shield
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  S4: to make sure I can, uh, fight off those fiery
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  S4: darts as they as they can, as they come at me.
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  S4: This is me taking my place behind him. He is
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  S4: my shield. And then that helmet of salvation. You know,
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  S4: we're going to have daily battles right where we are
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  S4: in the war. And the war doesn't end on this side.
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  S6: No.
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  S4: But we can be confident that we have been rescued
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  S4: already from future judgment.
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  S5: That's right.
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  S4: That is secure. Our salvation is secure. And then our
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  S4: offensive weapon is the Word of God, the sword of
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  S4: the spirit. This is maybe the one that we're most
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  S4: familiar with. It's the only one that's listed that's an
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  S4: offensive weapon. We can fight back with the Word of God. Exactly.
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  S4: Against the against the enemy. And you know, what's your
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  S4: favorite of these? And I just ran through them quickly.
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  S4: But we've got the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness,
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  S4: the gospel shoes, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation,
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  S4: and then the Word of God, the sword of the spirit.
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  S4: Do you have a favorite little armor piece?
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  S5: Yeah. I think for me, what stands out is the
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  S5: breastplate of righteousness. And you were reading from the New
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  S5: Living Translation, uh, through that. And in that translation it
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  S5: says the breastplate of God's righteousness.
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  S6: Yes, exactly.
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  S5: Which, which I really love. I love the point that
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  S5: you made that all of these pieces of the armor
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  S5: have to do and rely on God, not ourselves. And
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  S5: so I do love that kind of in the same
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  S5: vein as the salvation helmet, where it's, it's, it's up
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  S5: to his righteousness. I don't stand in my own righteousness
• 17:21
  S5: looking for that to protect me. I look to his righteousness.
• 17:24
  S4: Yeah. Super day.
• 17:25
  S6: For me. I'm with you. It's the shield of faith.
• 17:28
  S6: Just the concept and the idea of just being protected
• 17:31
  S6: by him and having that freedom and just knowing that
• 17:34
  S6: he is there for me and fights for me and
• 17:36
  S6: with me. That shield of faith just gives me that
• 17:39
  S6: sense of just protection and safety and peace.
• 17:42
  S4: You know, I oftentimes find myself thinking about that, not
• 17:46
  S4: the shield in particular, but the fact that when we
• 17:49
  S4: run into him, we are safe. Like he, he is
• 17:53
  S4: our refuge. He is our strength. He is our strong tower.
• 17:57
  S4: He is our defender. Think about all of that scripture.
• 18:00
  S4: Interpret Scripture so it is in him that we are shielded.
• 18:05
  S4: I've got an article I want to share with you
• 18:07
  S4: and Jonathan. You mentioned it that this is not about us,
• 18:11
  S4: and I want to go back to that. It is.
• 18:13
  S4: It is not in us. It's not in our power.
• 18:16
  S4: I cannot come up with the armor, but it's God's
• 18:20
  S4: armor that ultimately protects us. I got a cool article
• 18:22
  S4: that I do want to share with you. If you
• 18:24
  S4: text the word armour to 800 555 7898, text armour
• 18:30
  S4: to 805 557898. This is just a Desiring God article
• 18:36
  S4: that goes into a little bit more in depth about
• 18:39
  S4: some of the Old Testament link to some of these
• 18:42
  S4: different pieces of armour. Let me read to you a quote.
• 18:45
  S4: It says, too often spiritual warfare is seen as an individuals,
• 18:49
  S4: believers call to put on armor and fight demonic forces alone,
• 18:53
  S4: as if this is a test to prove his faith.
• 18:56
  S4: This couldn't be further from the truth. Spiritual warfare is
• 18:59
  S4: is about God's people joining their Lord in his warfare.
• 19:03
  S4: He equips and empowers us to accompany him into enemy
• 19:08
  S4: territory and further his kingdom purposes. He has the victory.
• 19:13
  S4: We put on his armor in him. Text armor to
• 19:17
  S4: 805 557898. If you want this resource, just text armor
• 19:22
  S4: to 805 557898.
• 19:27
  S1: You're listening to Colonel and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 19:31
  S4: Hey. Good morning, I'm Ali. Glad you're with us this morning.
• 19:34
  S4: Have you ever heard of a social Morei.
• 19:37
  S5: Know, I know. That's amore.
• 19:39
  S6: Yeah.
• 19:42
  S4: Oh, a little dad joke. Young thunder. I must I
• 19:47
  S4: say that I'm a little bit proud of you.
• 19:49
  S5: Thank you. I'm trying here. I'm trying. I got some,
• 19:52
  S5: I got some thank yous for my service of doing
• 19:57
  S5: dad jokes when you're out on Wednesday. I heard when
• 19:59
  S5: I went to church yesterday, someone came up and said, hey,
• 20:02
  S5: someone had to do him.
• 20:03
  S4: Give it the good old college try. Uh, speaking of college,
• 20:06
  S4: try social mores, as I learned in my college. I
• 20:09
  S4: think it was sociology class. These are social norms that
• 20:15
  S4: when groups live together. Let me read this to you.
• 20:17
  S4: This is from simply psychology. Mores arise when groups live
• 20:21
  S4: together long enough to develop shared understandings about how members
• 20:25
  S4: should behave. Now, these are not things that are enforced
• 20:29
  S4: by law, but simply collectively. We have decided as a
• 20:34
  S4: society that are certain things that are acceptable and not.
• 20:38
  S4: And so it's almost like a peer pressure effect. Like,
• 20:41
  S4: why do we do certain things? Like, why do we
• 20:43
  S4: go to and stand neatly in a line at a
• 20:47
  S4: grocery store? And why when you come up, do you not?
• 20:51
  S4: If you see three people standing in the grocery store line,
• 20:54
  S4: you understand that I go and I stand behind the
• 20:57
  S4: last person. I don't just simply charge my way to
• 21:00
  S4: the front because I'm in a hurry, right? Yeah. And
• 21:03
  S4: if somebody were to do that. Oh, boy.
• 21:06
  S5: People would call them out.
• 21:07
  S4: There's the shaming and the kind of the the the,
• 21:10
  S4: the looks because we this is enforced. We have collectively
• 21:13
  S4: decided together that there are certain things that are acceptable
• 21:16
  S4: and certain things that are not.
• 21:17
  S5: Yes. Correct. More commonly known. Kind of like a social norm.
• 21:21
  S4: Social norms. Yeah. So mores is the sociological term for it. Okay,
• 21:25
  S4: so I was in a college class, I think it
• 21:27
  S4: was sociology. And we were given an experiment that we
• 21:32
  S4: were to do where we were to intentionally challenge some
• 21:37
  S4: sort of social mores. Nothing crazy, nothing that would get
• 21:40
  S4: us in any kind of trouble. But we had to
• 21:42
  S4: pick some sort of social norm and purposely do the
• 21:48
  S4: opposite for the purpose of kind of like understanding how
• 21:51
  S4: this works. And so I picked looking back, this was
• 21:55
  S4: absolutely ridiculous and I can't believe I did this. So
• 21:58
  S4: I decided that I would go into a store and
• 22:02
  S4: that I would pretend to have no awareness.
• 22:08
  S7: Did you?
• 22:09
  S6: Okay, well, I'll let you finish.
• 22:11
  S4: So first, my first stop, I went into a shoe store.
• 22:15
  S4: And so for context, I am almost 511. I wear
• 22:20
  S4: a nine and a half to ten shoe. Okay, so
• 22:23
  S4: I am not a small person. So I go into
• 22:26
  S4: this store and I was like, um, do you have
• 22:28
  S4: these sandals in a size five? And they're like, um, sure.
• 22:34
  S4: So they bring me out like this backless shoe in
• 22:37
  S4: a size five. So I slip it on my half
• 22:40
  S4: of my foot is hanging off the back of the
• 22:42
  S4: shoe and I'm like walking around. I'm like, ah, I
• 22:45
  S4: don't know about these. Like, do you have anything smaller
• 22:47
  S4: than this? And so I'm like, and I am like inside,
• 22:50
  S4: like I'm sort of enjoying it, but I'm also kind
• 22:53
  S4: of mortified.
• 22:53
  S5: Because.
• 22:54
  S4: It's so embarrassing. And so then I ended up walking
• 22:56
  S4: out like, no, I don't think these are going to work.
• 22:58
  S4: So then I went into a clothing store and I
• 23:00
  S4: essentially did the same thing again. Picture someone my height,
• 23:04
  S4: my size. And I'm like, what's the small? Do you
• 23:06
  S4: have like a, like a two petite? And I go
• 23:11
  S4: into the dressing room and the ladies are like standing
• 23:14
  S4: out there like.
• 23:15
  S5: This woman is insane.
• 23:16
  S7: You gave them conversation for the rest. You did.
• 23:19
  S5: You did. They all went home and were.
• 23:21
  S7: Like, man.
• 23:21
  S5: You'll never believe what I saw.
• 23:23
  S7: Today.
• 23:23
  S4: And I played it totally straight of, like, acting like
• 23:26
  S4: I had no clue what size clothes would fit my
• 23:29
  S4: body or what size shoes would fit my feet. And
• 23:32
  S4: it was like I said, it was, it was, I
• 23:35
  S4: had like some joy in it, but also it was
• 23:38
  S4: so hard to not care about the fact that people
• 23:41
  S4: really thought I was like, out of my mind.
• 23:44
  S5: Oh, absolutely. Because you're like, man, okay, do I can
• 23:46
  S5: I just tell them at the end of this that I,
• 23:49
  S5: I did it just a thing?
• 23:50
  S7: Yeah, I didn't.
• 23:50
  S4: I did not say this is an experiment I'm doing.
• 23:53
  S4: I never did, I just walked out of the store
• 23:55
  S4: and they're like, man, I'm sorry. You don't have anything
• 23:58
  S4: small enough to fit me. I guess I gotta go
• 23:59
  S4: look somewhere else. Oh.
• 24:01
  S7: Oh, no.
• 24:03
  S5: That's awesome.
• 24:04
  S7: I still remember doing this experiment.
• 24:06
  S4: This has been it's been a lot of years.
• 24:08
  S7: Since I was.
• 24:08
  S4: A college student.
• 24:09
  S5: Was pretty out of character for you.
• 24:11
  S4: I don't.
• 24:11
  S6: Think I would have kept a straight face if I was.
• 24:13
  S4: With you. I kept a straight face. I totally played
• 24:17
  S4: it cool and broke this social mores as an experiment.
• 24:21
  S4: Those kind of experiments are memorable, right?
• 24:24
  S5: Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, that one in particular. That one.
• 24:26
  S6: Was.
• 24:27
  S5: Hard to forget.
• 24:28
  S4: It's hard to forget that day at the shopping mall.
• 24:30
  S6: I said more for them than you.
• 24:32
  S4: I know, I know. I'm like, I wonder what they're
• 24:34
  S4: saying about me. You're still a story.
• 24:38
  S6: I can't believe this customer I once had.
• 24:40
  S4: Yeah.
• 24:40
  S6: Oh, my.
• 24:41
  S4: No idea. No clue. Totally clueless. Coming up, we're going
• 24:44
  S4: to talk about a different kind of an experiment that
• 24:47
  S4: someone took on. This was a prayer experiment. Why did
• 24:51
  S4: he do this and what did he learn in the process?
• 24:54
  S4: Way more interesting than my two small shoes and clothes.
• 24:57
  S4: You're going to hear from him coming up.
• 25:01
  S1: Start your day moving closer to Jesus. You're listening to
• 25:04
  S1: Carl and Crew.
• 25:07
  S4: I'm so intrigued by the title of this book we're
• 25:09
  S4: going to feature right now, The Prayer experiment. The author
• 25:13
  S4: Matt Smallbone, lead pastor of church of the city in
• 25:16
  S4: downtown Nashville, one of Tennessee's fastest growing congregations. You decided
• 25:20
  S4: to do a prayer experiment. I've heard of science experiments.
• 25:23
  S4: I'm not sure I've heard of a prayer experiment. Please explain.
• 25:27
  S8: Well, I've been following Jesus for about 30 years. I'm
• 25:31
  S8: a pastor who loves Jesus. But the truth is, honestly,
• 25:34
  S8: I've struggled to pray, struggled to consistently pray. And so
• 25:39
  S8: about one year ago, January 1st, I was feeling all
• 25:42
  S8: this imposter syndrome because we were teaching a series on
• 25:44
  S8: the Lord's Prayer at church. And, uh, you know, I
• 25:47
  S8: guess I had two options, as you always do as
• 25:50
  S8: a pastor, you kind of fake it and wordsmith the
• 25:53
  S8: heck out of the stories, I guess, or you be
• 25:56
  S8: honest about it and, uh, you know, learn alongside your
• 25:58
  S8: congregation and what I learned in those seven weeks of
• 26:02
  S8: preaching through the Lord's Prayer, I decided I was actually
• 26:05
  S8: going to pray this prayer for the next year pretty
• 26:08
  S8: much exclusively and see what happens, because that's crazy. Is
• 26:12
  S8: Jesus actually tells us exactly how to pray. I've done
• 26:15
  S8: a ton of Bible study in my time, and this
• 26:17
  S8: one phrase was hiding in clear view. Jesus saying this
• 26:20
  S8: then is how you should pray. Just before that, he said,
• 26:23
  S8: here's two ways you shouldn't pray. And upon reflection, as
• 26:26
  S8: I was teaching to my congregation, I realized I was
• 26:29
  S8: doing quite a lot of the how not to. And
• 26:32
  S8: about one sixth of the how to. So went on
• 26:34
  S8: a prayer experiment. And it has fundamentally changed my life.
• 26:37
  S4: Okay, so let's get to the how not to that
• 26:39
  S4: you said you were doing quite a lot of. Is
• 26:41
  S4: that is that the heaping up a lot of words
• 26:44
  S4: in hopes that you'll be heard? Is that was that
• 26:46
  S4: part of it?
• 26:47
  S8: You are a very well educated radio host. So, you know,
• 26:54
  S8: in Jesus cultural moment, the two examples he gave was
• 26:56
  S8: don't pray like a hypocrite and don't pray like a pagan. So.
• 27:00
  S8: And when you do, you know, the the hermeneutical exegetical
• 27:04
  S8: work there, praying like a hypocrite is really talking about
• 27:07
  S8: praying like the Pharisees. And when you get inside of that,
• 27:10
  S8: Jesus is saying they kind of pray to look smart
• 27:13
  S8: in front of people, and that their reward for their
• 27:15
  S8: prayer is that people look on at them with admiration
• 27:19
  S8: about how good they are at praying and how spiritual
• 27:22
  S8: they are. And it's one of the weird things about
• 27:24
  S8: being a pastor is like, you love Jesus, but people
• 27:27
  S8: also give you a microphone and you pray into it. And,
• 27:30
  S8: you know, I just, I just realized that there was a,
• 27:32
  S8: there was a fair bit of ego and I was
• 27:36
  S8: tempted to give Ted talks during, during prayer. And I
• 27:39
  S8: was doing all sorts of that. And then the pagan bit,
• 27:42
  S8: you know, my understanding of that word, you know, back
• 27:44
  S8: then is, is it mean someone who wasn't an observant Jew?
• 27:47
  S8: So it's not quite as intense as maybe as we
• 27:51
  S8: think that word sounds in 2026 in English, but the
• 27:54
  S8: pagans would just throw up a bunch of words, would
• 27:56
  S8: be just an absolute volume of words. And they try
• 27:59
  S8: to technique God into getting God to do exactly what
• 28:02
  S8: they wanted, when they wanted. And, you know, honest reflection.
• 28:05
  S8: I was doing plenty of that as well. And so,
• 28:08
  S8: you know, these are confronting things to learn while you're
• 28:10
  S8: preaching the Bible to, uh, uh, to a, to a
• 28:14
  S8: beautiful congregation. I try to adopt a posture of humility
• 28:18
  S8: and learning. And so I went, you know what? I
• 28:20
  S8: gotta do something about this. It's time. I've loved Jesus
• 28:23
  S8: for 30 years, and I've never really been a keen
• 28:27
  S8: prayer in a way. All the other disciplines, all the
• 28:29
  S8: other stuff that Jesus tells us to do in the
• 28:32
  S8: sermon on the Mount. I've given all of that a
• 28:34
  S8: red hot go, and it just felt like it was
• 28:36
  S8: time to to figure out whether it was possible that
• 28:39
  S8: I might become a man of prayer.
• 28:41
  S4: Oh, I love this. I appreciate your honesty and some
• 28:44
  S4: of these things that maybe are harder to say or
• 28:47
  S4: to admit to. Matt Smallbone, lead pastor of church of
• 28:50
  S4: the City of Nashville, author of a new book, The
• 28:52
  S4: Prayer Experiment How Praying Like Jesus Realigns everything our thoughts,
• 28:56
  S4: our hearts, and our posture toward God and the world.
• 28:59
  S4: Coming up, let's get to this experiment for one year.
• 29:03
  S4: Pray the Lord's Prayer. It sounds simple. Could it really
• 29:06
  S4: be life transforming? Let's ask him. Coming up.
• 29:10
  S1: Helping you take the next step in your walk with Jesus.
• 29:14
  S2: God longs for us today to seek him and ask
• 29:18
  S2: him to move in ways that we never could.
• 29:20
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 29:22
  S4: We've got a special guest, Matt Smallbone, with us. He
• 29:24
  S4: is a pastor. He's an author of the Prayer Experiment.
• 29:28
  S4: So for one year you decided to pray the Lord's Prayer.
• 29:32
  S4: Tell me what that looked like and then let's get
• 29:35
  S4: to the impact.
• 29:36
  S8: Yes. So I realized that the Lord's Prayer, you can
• 29:40
  S8: just recite it word for word. It's a brilliant prayer.
• 29:43
  S8: It is simple enough for a toddler to memorize and, um,
• 29:46
  S8: sophisticated enough to keep theologians just enraptured for the rest
• 29:51
  S8: of their lives. And so there are six movements in
• 29:53
  S8: the Lord's Prayer. And I would just pray each of
• 29:55
  S8: them pray the Lord's Prayer a bit. That's in the Bible. Um,
• 29:59
  S8: and then I would just kind of, uh, use my
• 30:01
  S8: own imagination and use my own prayer words. I think
• 30:05
  S8: it's important to pray what you got to quote my
• 30:06
  S8: friend John Tyson, just just have a conversation with God
• 30:10
  S8: about matters of mutual concern. So what I would do
• 30:13
  S8: is I, you know, think of the thing I need
• 30:14
  S8: to pray for. It might be that my 14 year
• 30:17
  S8: old has just has to go to the orthodontist. And
• 30:20
  S8: there's some, you know, nervousness about that. And I would
• 30:24
  S8: just run through, you know, the six different movements of
• 30:26
  S8: the Lord's Prayer, you know, for for that particular situation.
• 30:29
  S8: And I have found it works for every single situation.
• 30:33
  S8: The first three movements of the Lord's Prayer are all
• 30:34
  S8: focused on God. And I'd never really done that. You know,
• 30:37
  S8: it begins with our father who art in heaven. And
• 30:40
  S8: you know, when you when you do some Bible work there,
• 30:43
  S8: it really does read more like our father, not my father,
• 30:47
  S8: by the way, I kind of went to God as
• 30:48
  S8: a single child a lot, you know, kind of demanding
• 30:51
  S8: my way. It's a communal prayer. Our father, who is
• 30:54
  S8: as close as the air, is how the new King
• 30:56
  S8: James Version, kind of like it translates that word Uranus
• 31:01
  S8: as as as air. And so I thought that was
• 31:03
  S8: really helpful for me that that I had to pray
• 31:06
  S8: to our father who's really close. And then and then
• 31:08
  S8: you Revere God's name. And so you'd start, you'd start
• 31:10
  S8: with that, you know, as you're praying for your 14
• 31:12
  S8: year old and the orthodontist, you're like, hey, our father,
• 31:14
  S8: you're my dad, you're my you're my kid's dad. Um, we,
• 31:19
  S8: we Revere your name. And then you just kind of
• 31:21
  S8: move through each of the movements. The first three are
• 31:23
  S8: focused on God and the last three are focused on us.
• 31:26
  S8: Involves daily forgiveness. By the way, after you ask for things. Uh,
• 31:32
  S8: and that is, that has probably been the massive change
• 31:34
  S8: in the first year of the experiment for me that
• 31:36
  S8: I'm walking around very light, having forgiven people and ask
• 31:40
  S8: for forgiveness several times a day.
• 31:42
  S4: Wow. Matt Smallbone, our guest. You know, when you think
• 31:45
  S4: about most people's approach to prayer, it kind of becomes like, yeah,
• 31:48
  S4: I really, I really should pray more. That's something I
• 31:52
  S4: recognize that it's really important. But somehow between the recognition
• 31:56
  S4: that it's important, between the actual impact in my daily life.
• 31:59
  S4: There's this sort of disconnect. Did you find that that
• 32:03
  S4: gap started to close for you, that that disconnect thing
• 32:07
  S4: can that can kind of happen between the discipline of it.
• 32:09
  S4: And as Bill Thrasher, one of our favorites around here,
• 32:12
  S4: the delight of it started to close.
• 32:15
  S8: Yeah. You know, there's lots of reasons where I kind
• 32:18
  S8: of counted myself out as a good prayer. You know,
• 32:21
  S8: one of them was theological, I believe, and still do,
• 32:24
  S8: in the sovereignty of God. And there's just this kind
• 32:26
  S8: of there's a there's some big questions connected to that.
• 32:29
  S8: Like if God's going to do what he's going to do, uh,
• 32:33
  S8: in any situation, what's the point of praying about it?
• 32:36
  S8: And I, and I trust that God is good and
• 32:38
  S8: loves me. And for some reason that demotivated me a
• 32:41
  S8: little bit. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going
• 32:42
  S8: to let the running of my life up to God and, and, um,
• 32:45
  S8: you know, I'll come to him when, when things get, uh,
• 32:48
  S8: things get a little precarious. I think also my personality,
• 32:51
  S8: I felt like my personality counted me out. Like I,
• 32:53
  S8: I would much rather be at Dollywood than do a
• 32:56
  S8: silent retreat. Like I'm not naturally wired for like, quiet
• 33:00
  S8: and introspection. I like to fill my life with fun
• 33:02
  S8: and I, and I thought that had, that was maybe
• 33:05
  S8: just not the kind of person who could really pray very,
• 33:07
  S8: you know, just wasn't really wired for prayer. And then,
• 33:10
  S8: you know, I've also lived with the disappointment of unanswered prayer.
• 33:13
  S8: And that was a barrier as well. And then what
• 33:16
  S8: you realize when you actually pray, the, the way that
• 33:18
  S8: Jesus taught us to pray and quote, Jesus said this
• 33:21
  S8: then is how you should pray. And then he says
• 33:24
  S8: the Lord's Prayer. There's something about praying all of it
• 33:27
  S8: in order every time that just reorients the human heart,
• 33:31
  S8: almost as if we were created by the person who
• 33:34
  S8: invented this prayer. Yeah. And so when you walk through
• 33:37
  S8: the movements, you go from adoration. Then you then you
• 33:40
  S8: move to a time of reorienting your will. That is
• 33:45
  S8: a powerful prayer that your will be done in my life.
• 33:48
  S8: If you bring honesty to that moment, you start praying
• 33:50
  S8: for different things. You say, God, you're a you're a
• 33:53
  S8: higher order being than I am way more intelligent. I've
• 33:56
  S8: got some ideas about what I need, but ultimately I'm
• 33:58
  S8: going to trust you as a good father. That fundamentally
• 34:01
  S8: changes the things that you pray for. And for me,
• 34:03
  S8: that was the sort of thing that closes the gap.
• 34:06
  S8: Then you pray for our daily bread. You follow that
• 34:09
  S8: up with, with, with a moment of forgiveness, which is
• 34:12
  S8: always beautiful. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us
• 34:15
  S8: from the evil one. You finish up doing spiritual warfare,
• 34:18
  S8: acknowledging that there is a target on your back, that
• 34:20
  S8: we're living in a contested world. And that is something
• 34:23
  S8: from my, um, spiritual upbringing. We just we just never did.
• 34:27
  S8: And so all of those things just are very good
• 34:30
  S8: for the human soul, it turns out. And for me,
• 34:32
  S8: it really closed the gap because I, I stopped trying
• 34:36
  S8: to be the, the person because I always thought the
• 34:39
  S8: great prayers had to get up at 4 a.m. and
• 34:41
  S8: I'd never been able to do that for more than
• 34:44
  S8: three days at a time. And then I would, I
• 34:46
  S8: would just give up on it. So what I do
• 34:47
  S8: now is, you know, several times a day, I'm praying,
• 34:50
  S8: I'm praying first thing in bed as I drive to work,
• 34:53
  S8: as things pop during the day and it's the last
• 34:55
  S8: thing at night, I. I'm praying this thing through and
• 34:57
  S8: I think it's easier now because I actually know what
• 35:01
  S8: to do. There's a framework to it, and I am
• 35:04
  S8: drawn to that, to that kind of thing. And when
• 35:07
  S8: you commit to a framework and it's and it's a
• 35:09
  S8: brilliant framework, uh, you end up getting quite good at
• 35:13
  S8: stuff and it's been unreal.
• 35:15
  S4: Matt Smallbone. Uh, great work here on this book, the
• 35:18
  S4: Prayer Experiment, how praying like Jesus Realigns everything, our thoughts,
• 35:22
  S4: our hearts, and our posture toward God and the world.
• 35:24
  S4: Text small to (800) 555-7898. We'll send you more. Just text
• 35:29
  S4: small to (800) 555-7898.
• 35:34
  S1: Celebrating the Unstoppable gospel.
• 35:37
  S5: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes,
• 35:40
  S5: so he's okay with me, but it's that I get
• 35:41
  S5: to stand close to him so that I can experience
• 35:44
  S5: the life that he has for me.
• 35:46
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 35:49
  S4: A couple of years ago, I took a Self-Defense class.
• 35:52
  S4: I showed up with some family members, and we were
• 35:55
  S4: going to do this together, and they walked through different
• 35:58
  S4: scenarios where the instructor showed us how we could try
• 36:02
  S4: to defend if somebody were to come up behind me
• 36:05
  S4: or to grab me, or how to get out of
• 36:08
  S4: somebody grabs your wrist and all these different moves. The
• 36:11
  S4: practice of it was one thing, but when when we
• 36:14
  S4: had to kind of work through it with somebody actually
• 36:17
  S4: grabbing us, it was a whole other thing, trying to
• 36:21
  S4: get my wrist free using the techniques. But I was
• 36:24
  S4: glad that I at least had a few things that
• 36:27
  S4: I had prepared for. When you know what's coming, you
• 36:31
  S4: should prepare, right? Doctor Carl Payne, our guest right now,
• 36:34
  S4: you know that one day self-defense class, it wasn't a lot,
• 36:37
  S4: but there was something about the preparation that does make
• 36:40
  S4: me feel a little bit more confident. Preparation does that.
• 36:44
  S4: When we think about spiritual warfare, we know that for
• 36:48
  S4: the believer, we can expect it. Is preparation possible and
• 36:52
  S4: if so, how?
• 36:53
  S9: I would say the answer to your question is an
• 36:55
  S9: absolute yes. The Bible gives us a warning. It doesn't
• 36:59
  S9: have to be a mysterious. It certainly doesn't have to
• 37:03
  S9: be frightening or even hocus pocus. It's, uh, first John
• 37:07
  S9: 215 through 17 and that James four for both say
• 37:11
  S9: we have an enemy identified as the world. Uh, which
• 37:14
  S9: I have said, uh, is a system in opposition to God.
• 37:18
  S9: And we're told that it works through the lust of
• 37:21
  S9: the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the boastful
• 37:23
  S9: pride of life, which in most Christian groups are just words.
• 37:25
  S9: We can memorize it. We don't know what it means,
• 37:28
  S9: but the lust of the flesh would be solicitation. Um,
• 37:32
  S9: it's external solicitation. Trying to trigger a physiological response. Unless
• 37:36
  S9: the I is something beautiful. You've got it. I don't
• 37:39
  S9: have it. And God's holding out on me till I
• 37:40
  S9: get it. And the boastful pride of life is the
• 37:43
  S9: idea of having ambition, but out of control, stepping outside
• 37:47
  S9: of God's will to get it. We're told that we
• 37:49
  S9: deal with something called the flesh as an internal solicitation.
• 37:53
  S9: Romans chapter 715 to 25 and Galatians chapter 517. Both
• 37:58
  S9: say that even as believers, that there's a traitor. Galatians
• 38:01
  S9: says it so clearly the spirit wars against the flesh,
• 38:04
  S9: the flesh against the spirit. They're in opposition to one
• 38:06
  S9: another that you may not do what you choose. Or
• 38:08
  S9: Paul says in the Romans passage four times that there's
• 38:11
  S9: something evil, even as a believer that still has something
• 38:14
  S9: to do with me and the good I want to do,
• 38:15
  S9: I don't. And the things I don't want to do,
• 38:18
  S9: I do. And then, of course, in the book of
• 38:20
  S9: Ephesians 616, we're told that there's an enemy that likes
• 38:23
  S9: to shoot fiery arrows at us. And I assume because
• 38:26
  S9: they're tipped with fire arrows, they must hurt. I think that, uh,
• 38:30
  S9: John the Apostle talks about the same thing in revelation 12,
• 38:33
  S9: where he says that we're accused day and night by
• 38:35
  S9: the enemy. And, uh, when I am told that I
• 38:39
  S9: have three different types of enemies, you know, natural and supernatural,
• 38:43
  S9: I ought not to be surprised when I run into that. Uh,
• 38:46
  S9: we've been warned. We've been told. And and on all
• 38:49
  S9: three of them, the Bible talks about how do you
• 38:51
  S9: respond kind of what you said in your intro. It's
• 38:53
  S9: one thing to recognize someone's trying to grab you. It's
• 38:56
  S9: another thing to know how to respond so that you
• 38:58
  S9: can stay safe. Yeah. My contention is we ought to
• 39:00
  S9: be winning more than we lose.
• 39:02
  S4: Doctor Carl Payne, our guest this morning, he's a pastor, teacher, speaker,
• 39:06
  S4: author of the book Spiritual Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance,
• 39:10
  S4: which has become a bit of a reference on this
• 39:13
  S4: topic so that we're all on the same page. Give
• 39:16
  S4: us your working definition of what is spiritual warfare and
• 39:20
  S4: what is it not?
• 39:22
  S9: Well, I would say that spiritual warfare is anything that
• 39:25
  S9: tries to oppose us in our walk with God. I
• 39:28
  S9: say step one would be, uh, in staying away from Christ.
• 39:32
  S9: You know, the other side doesn't want you to become
• 39:35
  S9: a Christian. Or if, uh, if they lose on that,
• 39:37
  S9: the plan B would be trying to distract us or
• 39:40
  S9: discourage us from walking daily with Christ. And that can
• 39:44
  S9: come externally from natural things like identified earlier as the
• 39:48
  S9: world or the flesh. One external solicitation, one internal solicitation.
• 39:53
  S9: Or it can be supernatural, which could be either. But
• 39:56
  S9: the spiritual warfare is the notion that this isn't our
• 39:59
  S9: home and that there's a battle going on. And anyone
• 40:02
  S9: that's thinking that peace is the absence of conflict does
• 40:06
  S9: not understand, as a Christian, what we're dealing with. We're
• 40:09
  S9: promised conflict, but we're also promised the ability to be
• 40:12
  S9: able to win in the battles instead of lose. So
• 40:15
  S9: it's conflict trying to keep us from walking with God
• 40:17
  S9: personally and then being able to help anybody else. I
• 40:20
  S9: like to say we're here to populate heaven and depopulate hell,
• 40:24
  S9: and it's anything trying to interfere with that mission.
• 40:28
  S4: And what is it not? What do we get wrong
• 40:31
  S4: in our conversations about spiritual warfare? What do we misunderstand?
• 40:35
  S9: The notion that for something to be spiritual warfare, it's
• 40:38
  S9: got to be occultic. It's got to be demonic. It's
• 40:40
  S9: got to be spooky. The world and the flesh are
• 40:44
  S9: just as capable of knocking me off my track as
• 40:48
  S9: the supernatural. Or when you're talking about the demonic, that
• 40:51
  S9: it has to be a gutter drunk, a drug addict,
• 40:54
  S9: an occultist. Most of the time, if you represent much
• 40:59
  S9: of an opposition to the enemy, they have to be
• 41:01
  S9: more subtle with Christians than that, because most Christians aren't
• 41:05
  S9: going to invite someone with a, uh, a red tail,
• 41:08
  S9: a pitchfork saying, hey, I'm here to mess your day up. Yeah.
• 41:11
  S9: They'd prepare. They're more apt to, you know, uh, how
• 41:14
  S9: come you're always on the outside looking in? You know,
• 41:16
  S9: why do you pray? Your prayers bounce off the ceiling?
• 41:19
  S9: You know, if Jesus really loved you, why doesn't he
• 41:21
  S9: take care of you? Why do you read your Bible?
• 41:23
  S9: You fall asleep reading your Bible, but you can read
• 41:25
  S9: novels by the hour. Don't you understand? This whole thing
• 41:28
  S9: is just a joke. You're never going to make it.
• 41:30
  S9: And you'd be better off dead. You can be in
• 41:32
  S9: the middle of a group and you're always by yourself.
• 41:35
  S9: It's just this taunting, gnawing. John calls it accusation. Paul
• 41:39
  S9: calls it arrows. And it's to tell you that Jesus
• 41:42
  S9: isn't enough. You're not enough. I summarize it this way
• 41:44
  S9: one time when I just said, it's either saying that
• 41:47
  S9: Jesus is inadequate to be your Savior or you are
• 41:50
  S9: inadequate to be a Christian. Wow. And when I get
• 41:52
  S9: that constant gnawing and I've had some people say it's voices,
• 41:56
  S9: some say it's thoughts, some say it's ideas, some say
• 41:59
  S9: it's impressions. But I'll just say it's mental. It connects.
• 42:02
  S9: And somehow I am just supposed to give up because
• 42:05
  S9: Jesus doesn't measure up or I don't measure up. I say,
• 42:09
  S9: welcome to spiritual warfare.
• 42:11
  S4: Doctor Carl Payne, our guest this morning as we talk
• 42:13
  S4: about preparing for spiritual warfare coming up, we've identified our enemies.
• 42:18
  S4: Now let's talk about our plan of defense, our plan
• 42:21
  S4: to fight back more coming up here on Carl and crew.
• 42:25
  S1: The gospel changes everything.
• 42:28
  S10: Where else am I gonna find peace, joy, eternal life
• 42:31
  S10: not found in.
• 42:33
  S4: Any one else.
• 42:34
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 42:37
  S4: We have a guest expert this morning as we talk
• 42:39
  S4: about preparation, how do we prepare for spiritual warfare? We
• 42:43
  S4: know that we are in a battle. Our enemies is
• 42:46
  S4: doctor Carl Payne has identified the world, the flesh, the devil.
• 42:50
  S4: Do we need a different plan of attack or plan
• 42:52
  S4: of defense when it comes to each of those enemies?
• 42:56
  S9: The answer is absolutely yes. And I would say that
• 42:59
  S9: I have promoted Christian school, whether it's undergraduate or seminary graduate.
• 43:05
  S9: I think leaders need to be prepared. But one of
• 43:07
  S9: the things that we were woefully under underinformed of at
• 43:12
  S9: least when I went and I went to a couple
• 43:13
  S9: of very good schools in preparation for ministry, in the
• 43:17
  S9: book you mentioned, I said, it's like a tube sock.
• 43:20
  S9: You know, basically what we were told is as long
• 43:22
  S9: as you love God, you memorize scripture, you pray you'll
• 43:24
  S9: be just fine. And if anything goes wrong, that's for
• 43:27
  S9: emotionally inadequate people who trust their feelings instead of the
• 43:31
  S9: Word of God. So just suck it up and and
• 43:33
  S9: don't look foolish, okay? Since that's what most of my
• 43:37
  S9: teachers said, or at least something close to that, I
• 43:39
  S9: just ignore the whole topic until you're in situations where
• 43:42
  S9: you go, this doesn't fit. What are we talking about?
• 43:45
  S9: So if someone says to me, what do I do
• 43:46
  S9: if the attacks are coming from the world? And again,
• 43:49
  S9: I've said, if you're very good, I call it an
• 43:51
  S9: infernal triad world flesh devil. Why? Because the Bible talks
• 43:54
  S9: about all three of them. If the attacks are external
• 43:57
  S9: and they're coming from the world, lost the flesh, lost
• 44:00
  S9: the I boastful pride of life, I'm told in verse
• 44:02
  S9: 17 of First John two how to respond. At least
• 44:06
  S9: if I want to win. I evaluate the solicitation and
• 44:10
  S9: the Bible reminds me of the things of this world.
• 44:12
  S9: Fade away. The things of God abide forever. Ali. I'm
• 44:15
  S9: not told I won't be solicited. I'm just told, you know,
• 44:19
  S9: if you're going to make a decision, do it based
• 44:21
  S9: upon the things that last forever that are eternally true.
• 44:24
  S9: If someone says, would you like that car? I drive
• 44:27
  S9: a faith mobile and you drive a. You drive a
• 44:29
  S9: Benz or whatever someone thinks is a nice car. I
• 44:32
  S9: would say there's nothing wrong in you you're driving a Benz.
• 44:35
  S9: But if I rob a bank so that I can
• 44:37
  S9: have a Benz too, I needed to evaluate that and say,
• 44:40
  S9: you know, I traded away eternal treasure, walking away from
• 44:43
  S9: walking with God in an obedient way to being disobedient.
• 44:47
  S9: So I could have something you've got. I would say
• 44:49
  S9: that's a bad trade. It's not that there's something inherently
• 44:52
  S9: wrong with a car, but if you steal money to
• 44:55
  S9: get it, that's outside God's boundaries. You don't do that.
• 44:57
  S9: I have just lost. When I talk about the flesh,
• 45:01
  S9: I'm given three different responses. I'm told in second Timothy
• 45:04
  S9: two two, and I like it because it's just all
• 45:06
  S9: the twos. Easy to remember. There are some battles with
• 45:08
  S9: the flesh. That's an internal solicitation designed to promote a
• 45:12
  S9: physiological response. I see a naked woman. Most guys in
• 45:16
  S9: their heads go crazy. You know, I see Haagen-Dazs ice cream.
• 45:20
  S9: All of a sudden I think I'm hungry. Even if
• 45:22
  S9: I wasn't, you can say that's external solicitation. I say
• 45:25
  S9: yes when it's a battle with the flesh. I don't
• 45:27
  S9: have to have a picture, a billboard. I'm able to
• 45:29
  S9: think of things in my head. They come from within.
• 45:32
  S9: I go, where did that come from? And I'm saying, well,
• 45:34
  S9: second Timothy two two says, flee. There are some things
• 45:37
  S9: that are so hot you don't mess with it. Just
• 45:38
  S9: get out of the situation. But Ephesians 422 through 24 says,
• 45:42
  S9: you put off the old man. You put on the new.
• 45:44
  S9: Through the renewing of your mind. There's sometimes I'm just
• 45:46
  S9: sloppy in my thinking and I need this. Proverbs 237
• 45:51
  S9: as a man thinks in his mind, so is he.
• 45:52
  S9: And so I go, you know what? What you think
• 45:54
  S9: about is what you do. Or the. Galatians 516 says,
• 45:57
  S9: when you walk controlled by the spirit, you will not
• 45:59
  S9: carry out the strong desires of the flesh. So I
• 46:02
  S9: can win. Well, it's natural. I had to do it. No,
• 46:05
  S9: God lives in me. I'm supernatural because God lives in me.
• 46:08
  S9: So don't use that as a cop out. But it
• 46:10
  S9: doesn't mean there's not a solicitation. I'm given three responses.
• 46:14
  S9: I need to walk controlled by the spirit. I need
• 46:17
  S9: to be renewed in my mind. Or sometimes it's hot enough.
• 46:20
  S9: Just leave. And then when I deal with the third
• 46:22
  S9: part of that triad, the demonic, I'm told in James four, flee, resist,
• 46:26
  S9: resist the devil. He will flee from you. Or I'm
• 46:30
  S9: told in First Peter chapter five six through eight, resist
• 46:33
  S9: the devil firmly in your faith. He will flee from you.
• 46:36
  S9: Or Paul says in Ephesians six, that great part of
• 46:39
  S9: it in verses 12 through 18 about the reality of
• 46:42
  S9: a spiritual battle, ought not to be a surprise. Paul says, yes,
• 46:46
  S9: we're involved in a battle. And what does he say?
• 46:48
  S9: He says, Paul says in verse 13, doing everything you
• 46:50
  S9: can to stand Alli. The word anti-state is the same word.
• 46:54
  S9: Koine Greek word means I stand against, I resolutely oppose.
• 46:58
  S9: So when it's demonic or supernatural, I'm told, resist the devil.
• 47:01
  S9: It doesn't say run. It doesn't say rationalize. It doesn't
• 47:04
  S9: say ignore. It says resist. That means fight. I stand
• 47:08
  S9: against it. And then the next thing I'm going to
• 47:10
  S9: catch in my head is, if you trusted God, why
• 47:12
  S9: did you pray again about the same thing? Don't you
• 47:13
  S9: trust God no matter which way you go? Uh, Alex,
• 47:17
  S9: share your faith more, then you'll be a good Christian. Oh, yeah.
• 47:20
  S9: I need to share my faith more. If I don't,
• 47:22
  S9: I'm a bad Christian. Okay? I just shared my faith.
• 47:24
  S9: Now I'm excited. I tell my pastor, guess what? I
• 47:26
  S9: shared my faith. You're going to catch in your brain. Oh,
• 47:29
  S9: so you're showing off. You're taking credit. See, if you
• 47:31
  S9: don't share your faith, you're a horrible Christian. If you
• 47:33
  S9: do share your faith, you're a horrible Christian. Either way,
• 47:36
  S9: you're a horrible Christian. And what I'm suggesting is the
• 47:39
  S9: Bible says you don't run from that. You resist it
• 47:41
  S9: when it's supernatural. Demonic. Ellie, if I don't know whether
• 47:44
  S9: I'm getting attacked by the world, the flesh of the devil,
• 47:46
  S9: then do I stop and evaluate? Do I run? It's
• 47:49
  S9: too hot. Do I start renewing my mind? You know,
• 47:53
  S9: putting Scripture in saying, that's a lie. I don't have
• 47:55
  S9: to go there. Or do I actually resist? I'm saying, no,
• 47:58
  S9: this is demonic arrows. I'm putting up a shield of faith,
• 48:01
  S9: says Ephesians 616, and he'll put them out. See, when
• 48:03
  S9: I don't know where the hits are coming from, I
• 48:05
  S9: don't know whether to resist or run.
• 48:07
  S4: Yeah.
• 48:08
  S9: And those are two very different responses depending on where
• 48:12
  S9: the hits are coming from. And I'm suggesting as a pastor,
• 48:16
  S9: if I'm told that this is basically a joke and
• 48:19
  S9: there's only a certain part of the Christian group that,
• 48:22
  S9: you know, really thinks much about this anyway, and they
• 48:24
  S9: do more feeling in their heart than they do thinking
• 48:26
  S9: with their head. So. So just memorize scripture. I'm saying
• 48:31
  S9: on all three of those. That's a good response to
• 48:33
  S9: memorize scripture. But none of those three are what I'm
• 48:36
  S9: directed to do. If I want to start winning battles,
• 48:39
  S9: instead of losing battles with enemies that I'm told they're there,
• 48:43
  S9: they're coming, and there's nothing you can do to not
• 48:45
  S9: get shot at or take a hit, but you can
• 48:49
  S9: respond and win. Or you can just be Eeyore and say,
• 48:52
  S9: I'm just a victim and I'm just going to get
• 48:54
  S9: beat up all day. And I'll say, thank you for
• 48:56
  S9: saying Jesus isn't enough. And I say, I never I
• 48:59
  S9: never said that. That's exactly what you're saying when you go,
• 49:02
  S9: I'm just Eeyore and I'm just a victim. I say,
• 49:05
  S9: forget that I'm a victor in Christ. I've been with
• 49:09
  S9: too many Christians that pray and they're not great. I'm
• 49:11
  S9: saying learn how to identify the world and the flesh
• 49:15
  S9: and the devil. Three types of opposition. Three different responses.
• 49:19
  S9: I'll never win them all, but I can sure win
• 49:22
  S9: more than I lose.
• 49:23
  S4: Doctor Carl Payne this is rich. You know, in hearing
• 49:26
  S4: a lot of what you've described, it sounds like so
• 49:28
  S4: much of the attack is mental. You know, I think
• 49:32
  S4: when we talk about spiritual warfare, our mind immediately can
• 49:35
  S4: go to, as you said, like the like a costumed
• 49:38
  S4: red devil, that there's something or there's something spooky happening externally.
• 49:44
  S4: But so much of what you described is internal. It's mental,
• 49:48
  S4: it can't be seen. And so maybe not as easily identified.
• 49:52
  S4: Speak to that.
• 49:54
  S9: Well, I think two things. First, I grew up. Now
• 49:56
  S9: it isn't as true today. Today the supernatural is on
• 49:59
  S9: every channel. It's all around. And I think it's why
• 50:01
  S9: some people are starting to wake up to the reality
• 50:03
  S9: of this. But I was taught in the 60s, everything
• 50:06
  S9: is about empirical science, and anything that isn't tied into
• 50:10
  S9: empirical science somehow is just silly. Or as Hume would say,
• 50:13
  S9: it's not meaningful. But I go to second Corinthians 111
• 50:17
  S9: through four, and I would say, for any of the believers,
• 50:19
  S9: think about this one. I don't know if you have
• 50:21
  S9: or not I did. It caught me later in life though.
• 50:24
  S9: Paul says, put up with me in second Corinthians 11.
• 50:27
  S9: He's talking to the Christians in First Corinthians. He beats
• 50:30
  S9: them up 15 chapters. Then chapter 16, he says, sorry
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  S9: about that. I'll talk to you later. Second Corinthians, he
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  S9: is commending them for the most part. They responded well
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  S9: to his letter. But in chapter 11 he says, verse one,
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  S9: I'm going to paraphrase, put up with me. I'm your
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  S9: spiritual dad. I introduced you to Christ. You were walking
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  S9: in purity in your devotion to Jesus Christ. And then
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  S9: he says, what happened? He says, I'm concerned for you
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  S9: at least, just as the serpent deceived Eve, you too
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  S9: are being deceived. And then he says, for you talk
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  S9: about Jesus, but it's not the one I preach to you.
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  S9: And you're involved with spirits, but it's not the one
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  S9: you originally received when you became a Christian and you
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  S9: teach the gospel. But it's not the gospel I preached.
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  S9: And then verse four, I said, it's idiomatic. It says,
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  S9: you're passive. Don't you understand? You're in a battle. And
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  S9: their response is instructive. They say, well, well, the ones
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  S9: who taught us came after you and said that they
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  S9: were apostles like you. And so we figured we were
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  S9: doing a good thing, even though it was a little different.
• 51:30
  S9: It's like, hey, you like Paul? He's okay, but we
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  S9: can give you even better stuff. And then he comes
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  S9: back and he says in verses 13 to 15, if Satan,
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  S9: the big boss, parades himself as an angel of light,
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  S9: why are you astounded that his minions would present themselves
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  S9: as apostles and teachers of righteousness? Ali, I take that
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  S9: whole thing back and go back to verses one through four.
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  S9: Where did he say the battle was? I am concerned
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  S9: for you, at least as the serpent deceived Eve in
• 51:55
  S9: her mind. You are being deceived. They were being deceived mentally.
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  S9: They were being taught things to think about. Not saying
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  S9: it's anti-Christian, it was just a different gospel and they
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  S9: were willing to bite on that. If something had come
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  S9: in and said, Curse Christ, the new teacher, they'd have gone,
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  S9: who are you? But if they come in and say,
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  S9: wouldn't you like to be God's Green Beret? I mean,
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  S9: do you just want to be an ordinary Christian? Or
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  S9: don't you want the real scoop? Where was that battle?
• 52:22
  S9: He says it was mental. Just like the one who
• 52:25
  S9: deceived Eve in her mind. So your comment that most
• 52:30
  S9: of spiritual warfare begins mentally, I believe is true. It
• 52:33
  S9: can be physical. Most of the time it's mental. If
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  S9: I can control your thinking, I can eventually control your steps.
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  S9: And for someone that thinks I want to walk with God,
• 52:43
  S9: it's a whole lot more subtle than just saying, hey rebel,
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  S9: raise HELL and turn your back on Jesus. You don't
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  S9: do that. And at some point you'll have Christians say,
• 52:52
  S9: I guess this stuff works for some. It just doesn't
• 52:55
  S9: work for me. And I'm going, no. We take hits
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  S9: from the world, the flesh and the devil. But the
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  S9: writer of the manual assumes we understand enough from reading
• 53:05
  S9: the manual that we know where the hits coming from. Why?
• 53:09
  S9: Because the responses are different. The world evaluate. Yes. The
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  S9: things of God. No. To the things of the devil. Uh, yeah,
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  S9: I I've memorized what? The helmet of salvation. Breastplate of righteousness, uh,
• 53:22
  S9: you know, girdle of truth. I read a book that
• 53:24
  S9: told me what those were as far as Roman armor.
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  S9: And so I'm all good, I go, you may know
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  S9: what the armor means, but what do you do with it?
• 53:31
  S9: How do you use it? How do you recognize the battle?
• 53:34
  S9: And most people will look at you clueless. I still
• 53:36
  S9: do conferences coast to coast and it doesn't matter what
• 53:39
  S9: denomination you go to, it doesn't matter what spiritual gifts
• 53:42
  S9: you have. I get the same response. Just haven't thought
• 53:45
  S9: that much about it.
• 53:47
  S4: Doctor Carl Payne It's time that we think more about
• 53:51
  S4: the attack that is happening every single day. Such an
• 53:54
  S4: illuminating conversation. I wish we had more time than we do.
• 53:58
  S4: Doctor Carl Payne, pastor, teacher, speaker, author of the book
• 54:01
  S4: Spiritual Warfare, Christians Demonization and Deliverance. We've got more for you.
• 54:06
  S4: If you just text the keyword warfare to (800) 555-7898, text
• 54:12
  S4: warfare to (800) 555-7898.