Latest / Inside Politics / Barnaby defects, Hanson offends and Sussan Ley comes on the podcast

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Barnaby defects, Hanson offends and Sussan Ley comes on the podcast · Inside Politics

0:01
S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
0:04
S1: This is inside politics. I'm Jacqueline Maley. It's Friday, November 28th.
0:13
S1: This week we have a very special guest in our
0:15
S1: Canberra studio with our chief political correspondent, Paul Satchell. A
0:18
S1: very big inside politics. Welcome to the opposition leader, Sussan Ley. Hello, Susan.
0:23
S2: Thanks, jacki for having me. And it's a pleasure to
0:25
S2: talk to you and Paul, who's right in front of
0:27
S2: me here in the studio.
0:28
S3: Welcome. Good to have you.
0:29
S1: Yeah. And I'm here in Sydney. Now, before we get
0:31
S1: into anything, can you tell us what your opinion is
0:33
S1: on cooking Wagyu steak on a sandwich grill in an
0:36
S1: AIF office?
0:38
S2: I think that's a crime against steak cooking. And the
0:42
S2: long line up of celebrity chefs inside and outside this building. Um,
0:47
S2: but maybe it tasted amazing. Um, I just passed Barnaby
0:51
S2: in the corridor, actually, and he's about to make a
0:53
S2: statement in the house.
0:54
S3: Have you been chatting to him in recent weeks about this,
0:56
S3: or is this not. You're just not engaged with him?
0:58
S2: Look, I haven't engaged about this. Um, Barnaby and I
1:01
S2: are colleagues and friends. He came to my mum's funeral. Uh,
1:04
S2: he checked on me during that difficult time, but, uh,
1:07
S2: we we've never come from the same political party, and
1:11
S2: he's free to do his own thing, and I'll leave
1:13
S2: him to it.
1:14
S1: We should jump in here for listeners who won't understand
1:16
S1: what you're talking about. You're talking about Barnaby Joyce, basically. Um, after,
1:20
S1: you know, a few hours after Pauline Hanson did her
1:22
S1: stunt with, um, walking into the Senate with a burqa
1:25
S1: for which she was suspended, he went and broke bread
1:27
S1: with her and they they controversially cooked Wagyu steaks on the, uh,
1:30
S1: sandwich press in Pauline Hanson's office. And Barnaby Joyce, as
1:33
S1: we record this podcast, is basically preparing to defect from
1:36
S1: the coalition to One Nation. How do you think all
1:39
S1: of that, um, sort of looks to, from, from a
1:42
S1: voter's perspective? Susan, you've got Barnaby Joyce cosying up to
1:47
S1: One Nation defecting from the party he used to lead
1:50
S1: at a moment when she's done quite a controversial and
1:53
S1: many people would say xenophobic stunt with the burka.
1:56
S2: I lead the Liberal Party and I'm responsible for leading
2:00
S2: the opposition. However, the nationals are their own party and
2:03
S2: individuals can make their own decisions. And I want to
2:05
S2: be really clear about that, because here's a good example.
2:08
S2: When we developed our Affordable Energy Responsible Emissions plan, we
2:13
S2: worked out where we wanted to be in the Liberal
2:15
S2: Party room, and we came together later with the Nationals
2:18
S2: in Coalition. And that's because I believe that the Liberals
2:22
S2: and Nationals are always stronger together fighting the Labor Party.
2:26
S2: But I'm certainly not accountable for their actions as individuals.
2:30
S2: And again, I make no comment on what Barnaby wishes
2:34
S2: to do.
2:35
S4: So after 30 years with the National Party, I am
2:38
S4: resigning from the party and that really leaves me with
2:41
S4: a heavy heart and I apologise for all the hurt
2:43
S4: that that will cause other people I really do.
2:46
S2: With respect to the stunt, jacki, it just goes to
2:48
S2: show how brittle the politics of One Nation are. That
2:53
S2: is not the forum for cheap stunts. It's the Senate
2:57
S2: of Australia, and it diminished the important role the Senate
3:02
S2: does have in our democracy. And it's not what Australians
3:06
S2: expect of the national parliament.
3:08
S3: Was it racist and offensive that the stunt? Do you think.
3:10
S2: It was offensive? I do not want to see anyone's religion,
3:15
S2: mocked president.
3:17
S5: A dress code might be a choice of the senators,
3:20
S5: but racism should not be the choice of the Senate.
3:24
S6: It's disgraceful, Senator. It is a shame.
3:28
S5: A racist senator.
3:29
S6: Senator.
3:30
S5: Displaying blatant racism and Islamophobia.
3:34
S2: And again, our society is generous and welcoming of all faiths.
3:40
S2: But rather than focus on whatever the message might have been,
3:44
S2: I really take a front offence to the forum in
3:49
S2: which it was done. There are many forums to have
3:52
S2: a view and the the democracy that we share is
3:57
S2: about the contest of ideas. Sure, but not on not
4:00
S2: in the Senate. I mean, Australians expect better of us.
4:03
S2: And the point is this, that when I leave this building,
4:06
S2: I mean, I mean, I know you guys ask me
4:07
S2: a lot of questions that are sort of a bit
4:09
S2: inside the Beltway. But when I leave this building, no
4:13
S2: one out there asks me these questions because.
4:15
S1: They don't ask you.
4:16
S2: About struggling.
4:17
S1: They don't ask about Pauline Hanson. Okay, well, let's talk
4:20
S1: about something.
4:20
S2: They don't they they they I have to say this.
4:24
S2: I do a lot of listening. We all do a
4:26
S2: lot of talking in here. When we leave, we really
4:28
S2: need to do a lot of listening. And I'm listening
4:30
S2: to Australians who are struggling. They can't pay their power bills.
4:32
S2: They're worried about their costs over Christmas. They've just seen
4:35
S2: the latest inflation figures. And while they don't talk about
4:38
S2: it the way we would, they just know that everything
4:40
S2: is going up and their interest rates do not look
4:43
S2: like they're coming down.
4:44
S1: Okay. So Pauline Hanson says she was trying to make
4:46
S1: a point about immigration. And immigration is something that you
4:49
S1: also want to have a debate about. So we've got
4:51
S1: neo-Nazis who are gathering outside New South Wales Parliament House,
4:54
S1: and House, and we've got this sort of horrible thing
4:56
S1: that Pauline Hanson did in the Senate with the burqa.
4:59
S1: I want to ask you, have you seriously thought about
5:01
S1: or how have you reflected on how you can talk
5:03
S1: about immigration and have a sensible debate about immigration while
5:06
S1: making sure you don't sort of unleash these xenophobic genies
5:09
S1: from the bottle, if you like.
5:11
S2: By recognizing the vast majority of Australians are people of
5:15
S2: goodwill who live their lives and want others to be
5:19
S2: free to live theirs. And we have made it very
5:22
S2: clear what we think about neo-Nazi behaviour. And finally, it
5:27
S2: looks like the New South Wales premier has engaged enough
5:31
S2: with the issue to make sure these types of hideous
5:34
S2: displays do not happen. And I reflect back to the
5:37
S2: first one that was on the steps of the opera
5:39
S2: House after October the 7th, with respect to migration. I've
5:44
S2: said that by the end of the year, we will
5:47
S2: outline our principles, and it's important that we do that.
5:50
S2: But I guess in answer to your question about how
5:54
S2: you talk about the issue. I make it very clear
5:57
S2: that the challenges we're facing with infrastructure, with pressures on housing,
6:03
S2: on public transport, the daily commute to work on hospitals
6:07
S2: and schools are not the fault of any migrant or
6:09
S2: migrant community. They are failures of governments to deliver infrastructure.
6:14
S3: I wonder on this issue how you avoid another schism
6:17
S3: between the left and the right of the party. Andrew Bragg,
6:20
S3: the housing uh, shadow spokesman, on Thursday morning said that
6:24
S3: immigration can't be talked about as the key driver of
6:27
S3: the housing crisis. It's one factor among many. Garth Hamilton,
6:31
S3: the LNP backbencher on the conservative flank, said your immigration
6:35
S3: policy should be entirely geared around how many houses are
6:38
S3: being built and how many migrants are coming in to
6:39
S3: live in them. Do you agree with Andrew Bragg that
6:42
S3: it's one driver among many, but not the key driver
6:44
S3: of the housing shortage or housing crisis?
6:46
S6: It is a.
6:47
S2: Driver and it is an important driver, but energy is
6:51
S2: a massive and increasingly bigger driver, and we're only just
6:54
S2: seeing that start to open up.
6:56
S3: In the housing.
6:57
S2: In the housing market, because the reason why people are
7:00
S2: building less houses is many. But one of them is
7:02
S2: the cost of building a new house. So what the groups,
7:06
S2: the Urban Institute and others say, um, the reason why
7:12
S2: we're seeing less houses is because people are going to
7:15
S2: buy the existing stock of housing, which they know isn't
7:19
S2: going to go up as much, even though it is
7:21
S2: still increasing in cost as actually building a new house,
7:24
S2: and that the cost of building a new house is
7:26
S2: heading to 30 to 40% more than it was a
7:30
S2: decade ago and rising rapidly recently. And that's because of
7:34
S2: the cost of energy. And when I say energy, if
7:37
S2: energy is unaffordable, everything is unaffordable. I often have housing
7:41
S2: in my mind because if you think of the components
7:43
S2: of the structure of a house, whether it be the
7:45
S2: bitumen paving the road in the new estate or the
7:48
S2: glass or the cement or the aluminium or the fittings,
7:53
S2: their costs are skyrocketing because we're not making these things
7:56
S2: in Australia anymore. And when we do, they cost too
7:59
S2: much to manufacture because of the cost of energy.
8:01
S1: So I just let me get this clear, because I
8:03
S1: don't think our listeners have heard this before. You're expressly
8:06
S1: linking the cost of housing and the increased costs of housing,
8:09
S1: which have been going up for years with the cost
8:11
S1: of energy in this country. So you're saying because of energy.
8:15
S2: The cost of energy and the cost of construction, which
8:18
S2: is because we just don't have the people to build
8:19
S2: the houses, so that's another driver.
8:21
S1: Yeah, that's.
8:21
S2: The failures, the the failures of both the apprenticeship system
8:26
S2: and everything that allows employers to actually afford to put
8:31
S2: an apprentice on in the construction industry to get on
8:33
S2: the tools to build the houses. So that's another failure.
8:36
S2: There is a long list of failures, don't get me wrong.
8:39
S2: But when you think of the, uh, the components, one
8:44
S2: of the reasons and inflation tells us everything is going up.
8:47
S2: But the biggest thing that's going up at the moment
8:50
S2: in the latest basket of goods in inflation is energy
8:53
S2: by 40%. And that is built into the cost of everything.
8:57
S2: Because if you import something and unfortunately we're importing too
9:00
S2: much because we're manufacturing too little. If you import something,
9:04
S2: if you put it on a truck, if you put
9:05
S2: it in cold storage, if you put it in a
9:07
S2: logistical process, it by the time it arrives, it has
9:11
S2: embedded those increased energy costs every step.
9:14
S3: Do you think of that idea of tying the migration
9:16
S3: intake directly to how many houses we're building, and making
9:19
S3: that a key political point?
9:20
S2: People are expressing a lot of different views. And I
9:23
S2: said when I became leader, I would enfranchise every single
9:25
S2: member of my party room to have their say on
9:28
S2: every policy area. So it's a thorough process and we're listening.
9:33
S2: And it's not just our views in our party room,
9:35
S2: it's what the Australian people are telling us. And I
9:38
S2: know the pressure on infrastructure. If you look back only
9:42
S2: 3 or 4 years and then look at the future,
9:45
S2: people are seeing it really live and and, um, around
9:50
S2: them and massive failures of state governments who in some cases,
9:53
S2: particularly in Victoria, are running out of the funds that
9:56
S2: they need to actually build the infrastructure that's been on
9:58
S2: the books for a long time.
9:59
S3: I wonder how you feel about the year, the parliamentary
10:02
S3: year wrapping up, you went through some moments of peril.
10:05
S3: There was a huge debate about net zero, lots of leadership, speculation.
10:08
S3: You've delivered a couple of big economic speeches, which were
10:10
S3: probably underreported, laying out some clear principles to go back
10:13
S3: to your roots on economics. Do you feel like you've
10:15
S3: turned the corner in the back end of this year
10:17
S3: and tamped down some of the internal tensions, and that
10:20
S3: the future is positive? Or do you feel like this
10:22
S3: is a kind of interregnum before more crisis early next year?
10:27
S2: I've never lost the feeling of great privilege to lead
10:29
S2: the Liberal Party. And when I am able, with my team,
10:33
S2: to fight for the things we believe in, for the
10:35
S2: values of our party, for aspiration, enterprise, small business, and yes,
10:41
S2: for making sure that we have a society that lives
10:44
S2: within its means. That was my first statement of principles.
10:47
S2: We have to manage the budget responsibly. And while that
10:51
S2: sort of sounds a bit ho hum to some people,
10:55
S2: when I put it in the terms of the next
10:57
S2: generations and their affordability for housing, then it's well understood.
11:02
S2: So because we have $1 trillion of debt looming, we
11:06
S2: will be paying. We are paying $50,000 a minute on
11:09
S2: interest on our debt right now. And we've got basically
11:14
S2: emergency fiscal settings in peace time. The point is this
11:19
S2: does anyone actually feel any better off for this? Well,
11:21
S2: no they don't. So with all of this government spending,
11:24
S2: no one is any better off. So yes, I've talked
11:25
S2: about that. Secondly, I said we would have a policy
11:29
S2: that would deliver lower personal income tax cuts at the
11:32
S2: next election, substantial, lower personal income tax cuts. I agree, Paul,
11:36
S2: it has been underreported because that's a clear that's a
11:40
S2: clear statement that I've made, which reflects values of our party,
11:44
S2: which are that you do deserve to keep more of
11:46
S2: what you earn. And I often smile when I when
11:49
S2: I hear the Labor Party saying this because clearly it's
11:52
S2: not happening under them.
11:53
S1: Crucially, you have said that you would deliver a tax cut,
11:56
S1: and I agree that has been underreported were he to
11:57
S1: change that. But crucially, you haven't said how you'll fund
11:59
S1: that tax cut.
12:01
S2: Every time you see a spending proposal from this government
12:05
S2: between now and the next election, you can have confidence
12:08
S2: that we are looking at it through either the lens
12:10
S2: of budget repair or reducing personal income tax cuts for
12:15
S2: low and middle income.
12:16
S1: Is that a way.
12:17
S2: Of saying.
12:17
S1: Is is that a way of saying that you haven't
12:19
S1: worked out yet? How are you going to fund that
12:20
S1: tax cut?
12:21
S2: It's a way of saying exactly what we've said. And
12:24
S2: the election is two and a half years away, and
12:25
S2: we can point to many areas. The NDIS is one
12:28
S2: of them, where governments spend a lot of money, but
12:32
S2: outcomes are not delivered. And I think this is really
12:34
S2: important because you should never equate government spending with either
12:38
S2: the appropriate outcome commensurate with that spend or service delivery,
12:42
S2: because it's often not the case we see so much
12:46
S2: inefficiency in government spending. And what that means for taxpayers
12:50
S2: is that they're not really getting value for an increasing
12:55
S2: tax burden. And more importantly, declining productivity in this country,
12:59
S2: which tells it all. Look at the circumstances we're facing.
13:02
S1: Yeah, I'm interested in this kind of new pitch or
13:05
S1: this this heightened focus on on economics because we've had
13:08
S1: Ted O'Brien, also the shadow treasurer, come out and give
13:11
S1: a National Press Club speech this week on economics and
13:13
S1: fiscal responsibility, and we'd love to see it at this podcast.
13:16
S1: I also want to ask you, though, about specific pitches
13:18
S1: to specific voter cohorts that have abandoned the coalition. And
13:23
S1: we saw the Australian election study this week came out
13:26
S1: and it confirmed, well, it was quite shocking reading. I'm
13:29
S1: sure you'll agree. 28% of women backed the coalition as
13:33
S1: their first preference vote. Younger voters in particular, are turning
13:36
S1: off the coalition. This is the continuation of a trend.
13:39
S1: It looks like the absolute concreting bedding down of a
13:42
S1: trend that's been happening over time. What is your select
13:46
S1: and specific pitch to young, younger voters and women voters
13:50
S1: to get them back to the Liberal Party?
13:53
S2: I looked at some research recently being done by the
13:56
S2: Daily Oz podcast, and it was quite telling, because what
13:59
S2: it indicated was that the biggest concern for younger voters,
14:02
S2: bigger than all of the other concerns put together, is
14:06
S2: cost of living. And that tells me that young people
14:10
S2: particularly are struggling. And the reason why I have made
14:14
S2: statements about managing the budget responsibly has been because we
14:18
S2: have a disenfranchised generation in Gen Z and millennials who
14:22
S2: genuinely don't believe they will find a pathway into a
14:25
S2: home of their own. And that's simply not fair. And
14:28
S2: I won't accept as a leader in this country that
14:30
S2: those next generations and I have six grandchildren will actually
14:34
S2: be poorer than their parents or grandparents. That's not good enough.
14:37
S2: And I'm not looking at it in political terms because to,
14:40
S2: to a large degree, Um, good politics is good policy.
14:44
S2: I think of the policy first. What should we be
14:47
S2: doing to assure this generation that they have exciting jobs
14:50
S2: for the future, that they have rising real incomes, they
14:53
S2: have an economy that can support their growing needs because
14:57
S2: the population, um, has needs as they grow older. And
15:02
S2: right now, we don't have answers to any of those questions.
15:05
S2: So I do speak to a lot of young people
15:08
S2: and a lot of women in women's groups. And I
15:11
S2: do listen, and I just hear this cost of living
15:14
S2: coming back overwhelmingly with respect to women. Women are caught
15:18
S2: up many times, in many cases in what I call
15:22
S2: just the busyness of life with needing two incomes to
15:25
S2: pay the mortgage, worrying about the children, perhaps not getting
15:28
S2: around to having children when they would like to, or
15:31
S2: the next or the second or subsequent child looking after
15:34
S2: elderly parents, maybe somebody in their family who's disabled, dealing
15:38
S2: with the infrastructure pressures in our major cities and feeling what?
15:42
S2: You know, what is my life really like? And I
15:44
S2: want to find ways to address those concerns. And I
15:48
S2: will be looking at that very early next year, and
15:52
S2: we'll be doing some work on it.
15:53
S3: On women's policy.
15:54
S2: Well, I think women's policy is family.
15:56
S3: Policy or young people's policy to.
15:59
S2: Policies that address the the real struggle that women are
16:04
S2: facing based on what they've told me, what I've seen
16:07
S2: in my own life, when I was walking a mile
16:10
S2: in those shoes, what I see in the lives of
16:13
S2: my adult children. It is chaotic. It is frenetic. And
16:16
S2: then when you add rising cost of living and housing,
16:20
S2: unaffordability and uncertainty, if you're renting, then this needs to
16:24
S2: be addressed as a matter of urgency. Now, Paul, I'm
16:27
S2: just about to go into question Time, the last question
16:29
S2: time of the year, and I'm going to say to
16:31
S2: the Prime Minister, what are you going to accept responsibility
16:35
S2: for this situation in what you called a year of delivery,
16:38
S2: when we don't have what we were promised.
16:41
S3: You were the women's spokesperson in the last term. You'd
16:44
S3: be across many different policy areas where there are gains
16:48
S3: to be made for your party. What are you looking
16:50
S3: at in terms of women's policy next year? You're looking
16:52
S3: at childcare tax settings. What are you looking at to
16:56
S3: win back women voters? What's in your mind as a
16:59
S3: as a personal view?
17:00
S2: Nothing's ruled out because.
17:02
S3: Give me a few ideas like what's what's in your head.
17:04
S2: Look, I think the childcare system is letting modern women down.
17:09
S2: And that's not just because of the awful events that
17:13
S2: we've seen in some centres. And that doesn't mean we
17:16
S2: don't have excellent long day care centres. And I was
17:19
S2: a childcare minister, and I understand the childcare when it's
17:23
S2: done really well. Early learning, early education is outstanding. But
17:27
S2: the question is, is it meeting the needs of parents
17:30
S2: who all want strong early education models, but they also
17:35
S2: want to be able to balance work and family in
17:37
S2: a way that suits them And too often I hear
17:40
S2: of mums who say, well, I'm going back to work
17:42
S2: early because I need two incomes for the mortgage and
17:47
S2: I can't find childcare near me because it doesn't exist
17:50
S2: and I'm going to have to drive half an hour
17:52
S2: and maybe I'll put something together with grandparents, and maybe
17:55
S2: I'll get on a waiting list here. And I just
17:58
S2: feel that we need, as I said, as leaders to
18:01
S2: come up with solutions for families. And I feel a
18:05
S2: particular affinity with working mums, because when I was in
18:10
S2: those years of my life, it was chaos. And you
18:13
S2: went to bed exhausted and you thought, no one's happy.
18:15
S2: I'm not doing this very well and something's got to give.
18:18
S3: Do you think that the current childcare system pushes women
18:21
S3: too strongly into the workforce, and there's not enough of
18:23
S3: an option for some sort of subsidy that allows some
18:26
S3: more time at home? Do you agree with that?
18:29
S2: We're a party of choice, so we should look at
18:32
S2: the settings as not being for the sake of the
18:35
S2: settings themselves. In other words, an ideological position. The Prime
18:39
S2: Minister talks about universal childcare as if everyone wants something
18:43
S2: that looks like this. Well, everyone doesn't. Some people might.
18:47
S2: Some people might vary what they want depending on their
18:49
S2: own personal circumstances, how well their children are, what their
18:51
S2: working arrangements are. So we're the party of freedom and choice,
18:54
S2: and I believe that we need to develop policies that
18:57
S2: reflect freedom and choice when it comes to these important issues.
19:01
S2: So it's something that I'm delighted many of my party
19:03
S2: room are talking about, because they're listening to the community
19:06
S2: and they're hearing what I'm hearing.
19:08
S1: Susan, I want to ask you about electoral strategy and
19:10
S1: in particular the teal seats, because the electoral strategy, such
19:14
S1: as it was under Peter Dutton, which clearly was a
19:17
S1: failed strategy, was basically, from what I could tell, to
19:20
S1: abandon the teal seats or to not particularly focus on
19:23
S1: them and to focus on the outer urban and suburban seats.
19:26
S1: That was a strategy that was unsuccessful. What's your strategy?
19:30
S1: I'm first of all, do you want to win back
19:32
S1: the teal seats at the next election? And if so,
19:34
S1: what is your strategy for those seats? Because they're a
19:36
S1: there are particular particular set of concerns and there are
19:39
S1: particular cohort of voters.
19:42
S2: We will be developing a serious, compelling policy agenda to
19:46
S2: reach Australians wherever they are, whether it be in western
19:49
S2: New South Wales, where I live, or in the so-called
19:52
S2: the so-called teal seats or the inner city seats. But
19:54
S2: I can say this because I visit areas like this continually,
19:59
S2: that people are struggling with the cost of living wherever
20:01
S2: you go.
20:02
S1: I mean, really in the seats. I'm sorry to cut
20:05
S1: across you there, but we want to I want to
20:06
S1: hear exactly what what it is that you're going to
20:08
S1: do for that particular cohort, which was which were once
20:11
S1: they're now called the teal seats. Colloquially, they were once
20:14
S1: blue ribbon liberal seats. So what is it? How is
20:16
S1: it that the Liberal Party has shifted so far away
20:19
S1: from its own blue ribbon base? And how are you
20:21
S1: going to win those particular voters back? Not with the
20:24
S1: sort of broad strategy. I understand what you're saying.
20:27
S2: These are terms that you're using. Blue ribbon teal. I'm
20:29
S2: just simply saying, if you're talking about the inner city,
20:31
S2: wherever you may be talking. Yeah, I am listening to
20:34
S2: them and the communities are telling me they're struggling with
20:37
S2: the cost of living. The issues I just described, they're.
20:39
S1: Struggling with.
20:40
S2: The.
20:40
S1: Cost of.
20:40
S2: Living.
20:41
S1: And families.
20:43
S2: Are.
20:43
S1: In Toorak.
20:44
S2: Look, um, that's a very broad generalization that you're making.
20:48
S2: A lot of people are renting in those suburbs. A
20:51
S2: lot of people are struggling in those suburbs. And I'm
20:53
S2: not suggesting every single Australian is struggling. Of course I'm not.
20:57
S2: I'm saying what I hear from the voters in those
20:59
S2: areas and what I just talked about with respect to women, families, children,
21:04
S2: incredibly relevant. And the infrastructure squeeze, while may not be
21:09
S2: so relevant in some of those areas, is certainly important
21:12
S2: to people who are travelling through the city in their
21:14
S2: everyday lives. And, you know, people across this country want
21:20
S2: a government that manages the economy responsibly so they know,
21:25
S2: as they look at Anthony Albanese and his crew, that
21:28
S2: that's not happening. And they well understand the challenges of productivity.
21:33
S2: They totally know that if you have declining productivity, you're
21:37
S2: not going to have a better standard of living for
21:40
S2: the next generation. They're ambitious for their children and their families,
21:43
S2: just as everyone is.
21:45
S3: Your aim coming into this term was to tack towards
21:48
S3: the centre, modernise the party. You're polling at 24% in Newspoll.
21:52
S3: That's the lowest on record. That could turn you're at
21:55
S3: a low point in the cycle. But do you think
21:57
S3: the year's been a success? Do you feel like you're
21:58
S3: getting on the right track, or is it is the
22:01
S3: party mired in a position where there will inevitably be
22:04
S3: a leadership change?
22:05
S2: We had the worst ever result in May, and I
22:08
S2: knew that the first six months, there would be a
22:11
S2: lot going on in order to set our party up
22:15
S2: with the policy settings that we need to. And the
22:18
S2: reason why I deliberately took time to do that was
22:21
S2: because I wasn't going to come out of that election
22:23
S2: and say, okay, these are our policies. I've got it
22:26
S2: all worked out. Here we go. Because of that result,
22:30
S2: it's been important to take the time to get it right.
22:33
S2: And I've pleased. I'm pleased that I have. Look at
22:36
S2: the energy policy we have landed. It's the right one
22:38
S2: for the country. We can talk about it another time.
22:40
S2: But you've heard me talk about it often, and we're
22:43
S2: going to have principles around migration policy by the end
22:46
S2: of the year. And I've referenced these two major economic speeches,
22:49
S2: and I've also talked about getting stuck into industrial relations,
22:52
S2: which is a terrible situation for small businesses, both employers.
22:56
S3: Well, you actually have an air fight for the first time.
22:58
S2: Absolutely. We will. And I accept that when the people
23:03
S2: see any political party talking about themselves, they mark us down.
23:06
S2: So I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing because
23:10
S2: it matters to the Australian people that we have the
23:13
S2: strongest possible opposition fighting a pretty awful government with an
23:19
S2: agenda that is just taking this country nowhere. So I'll
23:22
S2: always do that through the prism of liberal values and very,
23:25
S2: very proud to fly that flag for the values that
23:28
S2: have been very important.
23:29
S3: So this year was unity. Keeping the place in check.
23:31
S3: Next year is turn. Turn your sights on the government.
23:34
S2: Well, I think we have turned our sights on the government.
23:36
S2: Look at last week and this week with respect to
23:39
S2: energy policy, I mean, you've got an energy minister who's
23:44
S2: effectively acknowledged that he can be a full time president
23:48
S2: of Cop and travel the world and somehow do his
23:51
S2: job and somehow keep energy prices.
23:53
S3: Down to the Cop presidency. We don't have time for that.
23:55
S3: But no, we don't.
23:57
S1: Susan, I do want to I do want to ask you,
23:58
S1: are you going to be working through over the break
23:59
S1: or are you going to take a break? What do
24:00
S1: you do over Christmas?
24:02
S2: Uh, well I'm home. Uh, if I get a bit
24:05
S2: of time, I might go for the odd day trip
24:06
S2: in my small plane. If the weather's too not too awful. Uh, and, yeah,
24:11
S2: I'll be working. I'll be working. Because every day is
24:14
S2: a day where I can prosecute what I'm proud to
24:17
S2: believe in with respect to liberal values and the policy
24:21
S2: agenda that matters to Australians.
24:23
S3: Better tennis and cricket or no, no fun.
24:25
S2: Bit on TV.
24:26
S1: Just on TV in the background while you're while you're
24:28
S1: in the study.
24:29
S2: I love having the cricket on in the background.
24:31
S1: Actually, it's the soundtrack to The.
24:33
S2: Sound of Summer. It really.
24:34
S1: Is. Sussan Ley, we know you had a really busy day.
24:36
S1: We thank you for fitting us in. Have a merry
24:38
S1: Christmas and a lovely break such as it is.
24:41
S2: Thank you.
24:41
S3: Thanks so much.
24:47
S1: Today's episode was produced by Josh towers with technical assistance
24:50
S1: from Debbie Harrington and Kai Wong. Our executive producer is
24:54
S1: Tammy Mills, and special thanks to Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick.
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S1: Jacqueline Maley. Thank you for listening.