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How Grief Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant that makes the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know the podcast Good Grief. Yes, Good Grief.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I looked that up. Would you come up with? Well,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: it just struck me at you know, because Charlie Brown
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: says it. You know, that's where I know it from.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Then I thought, why would where did that come from?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Because of from one of those things, And it's just
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: apparently they think it's just what's called the minst oath,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: like when you substitute God for good gravy or good
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: googly easier, I got you googly movie googly movily. But
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: then I thought grief was weird because that's such a
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: specific thing. But then good gracious gracious is very specific too,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: and like ill fitting. So I guess it's just a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: minstath good grief. Well, maybe good gracious came from good
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: grace and somebody's like just feeling a little buzzed on
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: knops and they added gracious instead. Maybe so minced toad's
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: good gravy. That's good. It's probably the funniest thing will
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: happen in this show. Hopefully that wasn't even that funny. Yeah,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: but this one's not supposed to be funny. It's about grief,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And um, I think we should point
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: out from the get go that this is about grief,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: human grief, Western human grief. Yeah, but that's not to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: say that there aren't different types of grief and that
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: humans are the only ones who do grieve. In fact,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I have a story for you antal Action too, So
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: what you do? That was the funniest thing in this episode. Uh.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: This story took place back in the spring of in
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: um Uttar Pradesh State, India, specifically in the town of
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: luck Now and even more specifically at the Prince of
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: wales Zoo. There was a seventy two year old elephant
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: email elephant named Dominie, and Dominie was hanging out in
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: her little house at the Prince of wale Zoo when
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden she got a younger pregnant friend
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: delivered to her um named chump Paccali. And Chumpaccali was,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: as I said, pregnant. She was actually on maternity leave
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: from her regular gig where she would just let tourists
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: ride on her back. Okay, right, um, and so she was.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: She was taking the Prince of Wales zoo to to
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: basically just have a nice, comfortable term and then give birth.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: And Domini just fell in love with chompa collie. This
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: is so sad, so um. She basically became a maternal
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: figure chump Ofcali. They were best friends. Um. Chumpacali would
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: lay around and um Domini would stroke her pregnant belly
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: with her trunk. They just got really really tight, which
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: is very normal in in um the elephant world. Um.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So you can almost imagine that Domini was growing excited
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: as Champacali got closer and closer to her due date
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and when finally she did um go into labor. Champacali
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: died during childbirth and gave birth to a stillborn calf,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and Dominie, I guess they let her come in and like,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you know, hang around the body because elephants are known
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: to grieve well, even as far as elephants go, Domini's
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: stories a little. That's pretty bad. She um. She cried
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: over the body for a while and then went over
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: to her enclosure and just stood still for a week.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Right after the week um. She during this week, she
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: she stopped eating um. She got to the point where
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: her legs swelled from basically starvation and dehydration until she
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: fell over. And then she just laid there for what
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: turned out to be the rest of her life, where
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: she wept and refused to eat and refused to drink
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and grieved over the death of her friend, and finally
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: died herself a few days later. Uh and the vets
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: tried to keep her alive. They um, they did what
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: they could, but they said in the end um, in
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: the face of Domini's intense grief, all our treatment failed. No,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: they're buried next to one another. I had a dog
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: situation like that similar when I was a kid. One
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: of my dogs died and they were best buds, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: the other one just like it was never the same
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and died about three months later and seemed healthy at
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the time. And I went out and laid down the
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: doghouse and cried when I was like seven, devastating. That's
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: a wonderful thing to do. That's working out your grief,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, But as far as the animals go,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: it really is pretty evenly divided among scientists who say, yes,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: they show all the signs of grieving and that's what
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: they're doing. And then others that say, no, they are
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: not grieving. We're putting that on them as humans. Yeah,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: that's I totally disagree with that. Yeah, it's just you know,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: it's really too camps um. So we've talked about this before. Yeah,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: we've run up against this before, and I don't think
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: either one of us have changed our positions at all.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I think they grieve. But then you hear like this
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: one great ape you know, was famous recently for carrying
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: her little dead uh baby around for like three days,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and other scientists came out and said, like, you know,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: this is a long gestation period they have Singleton's having
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a kid is a big deal, and so she's carrying
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: this baby around and hopes that it will come back
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: to life and it's like in a comatose state, and
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a practical, adaptive, evolutionary thing that's happening.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: It's not grief. And then I think you're heartless, Right, Yeah,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: they're grieving because they they took the baby chimp and
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: made a purse out of it. After that, Well, but
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: then for animals, I don't want to get two sidetrack.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: But you have to think, like when some clearly showed
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: signs of what looks like grief and some don't at all,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Like the chimpanzee and the same you know arena like
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: they eat other chimpanzees while they're still alive and screaming. Well,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: those are the ones that back talk, or they go
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: off to die by themselves and there's no grieving, or
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: they will make like if one of them is dying,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: that will like kill them. Right, But imagine, imagine you're
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: an outside observer of the human species. We we lose
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: chemical weapons on one another, and yet we still have
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: funeral practices. I mean, it's it's interesting. I wonder why
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: certain animals do and certain don't, though you know, it's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: very interesting. Well, getting back to um humans the human
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: realm of grief, there was a man who recently um
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: was married to his wife for sixty two years and
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: she died and on the way to her funeral, he
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: died in the back of the limousine and um, yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: which I thought was incredibly sweet. And then his his
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: daughters they died at the funeral. Then know they they
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: put a sign up. They decided to just have a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: double funeral, and they put a sign up at the
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: wake that said surprised it's a double header and then
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: buried him next to her like that that day. Well,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I guess the fai. But the point is is, yeah,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: that is that that's a that's they used a sense
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: of humor to grief, or else they weren't going through grief.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: And the point of that whole thing is is that
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: there's no set way that grief works, which is great
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: because we can say just about anything here and still
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: being the right because psychology is still grappling to define
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the process of grief, and some very recent studies that
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: you found show that grief is not present and everyone,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and that everyone deals with it very differently, and there's
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: not really any specific way to handle it. There's just
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: some great general guidelines and that we should say grief
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: is a very personal thing. Yeah, and I might self
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: have experienced the spectrum of grief in my life, like
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: including you know, like family members passing away. Not to
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: be too cold, but some are you know, you super
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: grief for and some it's like, well, you know, they
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: were very old and they had a great life and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: we saw this coming. And that's one of the things
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: that you know. It's one of the types of grief.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Anticipatory grief, they say, is probably easier because you're working
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that stuff out over time and it's nothing like an
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: accident or a child dying. Unanticipated grief well, completely different. Yeah,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it is. So you say you mentioned anticipatory grief. That's
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: like if somebody's got a prolonged illness or something like that,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: you have the chance to say goodbye ahead of time,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: maybe deal with these emotions exactly, and then once death
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: actually comes, you've been prepared for this for days, weeks, months, right, Yeah,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times something maybe there isn't any
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: quote unquote traditional grief going on at all because you're
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: just so prepared and it's just a matter of executing
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: all the things that you need to do. If you're
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the person that's in charge of that kind of like
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you're so prepared you blow off the funeral to go
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: the grocery store. Um. It's like a serial. Psychologists call
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: that kind of grief anticipatory grief basically the money grief,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: because it's it's about is um as light as you
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: can get post grief post death, I should say, right, yes, um,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: And then Again, I want to say, like there's there's
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: probably a listener out there who like helped their their
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: husband or their mother through a long bout of cancer
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that the person finally succumbed to. That's like, that's absolutely untrue.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I agree with you wholeheartedly. Like there again, there's no
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: specific um, Like, no one could tell you what your
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: grief was. Again, it's personal. This is just these are
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: very broad strokes. So okay, then, like you mentioned unanticipated grief, right, yeah,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I meant that's from my experien arian's I had a
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: friend that fell off a building and died. That's like
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: definitely the hardest someone young an accident and uh but still,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: if you want to talk about five stages, I don't.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not a big believer that that's the case because
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I didn't experience all the stages at all. Um. But
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: again it varies. Someone might experience tense stages. It does.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: But but the point is with unanticipated grief, like you
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: couldn't have you or your friend didn't wake up that
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: morning like he was gonna die, you know, but he
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: still died and you have to deal with it all
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: of a sudden um. And then there's ambiguous grief, which
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: for my money, is probably the worst kind of grief.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: This is the kind of grief that comes where, say,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: if you have a loved one who is kidnapped and
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: you never hear from them again, or ever felt that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: one your parents abandoned you as a child, um, or
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: just something happens is somebody and there's no real resolution
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: or closure or you know, it doesn't have to be
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: even death. It can be like your girlfriend you come
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: home to a note on your bed, you never hear
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: from her again, or a wife. I guess, yeah, because
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I guess we should also say, like, grief doesn't just
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: have to come from death. Grief is basically the deep
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and poignant distress caused by bereavement, and bereavement is the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: state of being deprived of something or someone, so that
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: could be through death whatever. Yeah exactly. Um, but yeah,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: so those are the three types of normal grief just
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: off the top of our heads. We made those up right, um.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned the different kinds of um they're the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: different stages of grief and you, I mean, that's just
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: such like a pop trope these days, but it was
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: actually new just as recently as the nineteen sixty nine
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: when Dr Elizabeth Coogler Ross came up with the five
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: stages of grief that you always hear about today, that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: any ten year old could probably recite to you. But
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I have since been kind of deconstructed and change in
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: question and challenge. But these are the kind of the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: road map to go through grief, right, Um, denial, anger, bargaining, depression,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and acceptance, and denial is just basically saying this is
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: you're you're not true that there's still alive. Like what
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you say is a lie and I don't want to
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: be anywhere near you because you're lying to me right
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: now about something very horrible. Yeah, I've never experienced that,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: even with my friend who fell off a building. Like
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: that's as sudden a news as you can get over
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the phone. And I'm just not the kind of person
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: who's like, no, that didn't happen. I was like, man,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it immediately hit me that that had happened, you know,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And I started from there, I guess. But I didn't
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: experience anger either. But you know, if it might have
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: been my brother, I might have experienced anger. And you
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: you raise a very good point. There's different, there's different, Um,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I guess risk factors. There's different elements to grief, and
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: some of it is personal. Some of it has to
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: do with how close you are to the person, sure, Um,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: some of it has to do the type of person
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you are. You're a pretty resilient person. If you were
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a very sensitive, bookish type, you might have taken it
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: a little harder, you know what I mean. Um, you
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: have a very very very strong, tight support group, you do, so, Um,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I would say that that that probably helped quite a bit.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you had a group of friends that like
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: helped you through that, that were probably friends with the
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: kid too, so you went through it as a group. Yeah,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: going through something alone is always hard. Even if you
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: think you're a loner and don't want to be around anyone,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: you're probably not doing yourself any favor, right. Uh. And
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: then lastly, you had prior experience with grief. You're throwing
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: yourself down in the doghouse when you were seven, so
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: you had that experience to draw upon and to know
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you can make it through it. It does get better,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: it does go away. So you're gonna have the hardest
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: normal kind of grief if you are, like you said,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a loner with no support group. If this is the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: first time you've ever experienced grief, if you're the sensitive,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: bookish type, and um, if you were extraordinarily close to somebody, right, Yeah, totally.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: In fact, I used to do acting exercises in college.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: What it took, this acting class, and believe it or not,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I took one acting class and I was not very
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: good at it, and that he used to tell us
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to try and do like crying exercises and stuff. So
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: what do you think of my brother? Was always to
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: go to like imagine my brother had gotten killed or something.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I would just like boom, yeah cry if I thought
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: of your brother dying. I know, I'm just kidding about
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the other family members. Alright, So anger that's the second one. Yes,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: it is pretty self explainatory. Um. Bargaining. It fascinates me,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: like the idea that that you I feel like you're
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: suddenly in a position to make a deal with God
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to reverse the circumstances or bring the person back or
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: take away the pain. Yeah, it's just so crazy, and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: it's it's you know, like you think of somebody bargaining
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: with God or some higher power and they're like looking
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: up talking to the ceiling or the sky and that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that is one of the normal stages of grief. That's
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I just find that fast. I did that when I
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: was young with girls. Oh yeah, well I was heavy
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: into church, very emotional kid, and girls like you know.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: That was one of those deals, like God, just please,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: if you would just come back to me a promise,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I'll like do this and I'll do that, but I'll
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: clean behind my ears. I grew out of that pretty
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: quick because I realized different that girls either coming back
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: or she was hitting the road exactly, and God probably
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: had little if anything to do with that. That's right,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: he was dealing with bigger problems. Um. After that's depression.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And this one is kind of tricky. Um, if you
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: if you go through the stage of depression, if you do,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily requisite. Um, they're starting to wonder if
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: possibly you're already depressed, and uh, if you were already depressed,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that probably means you're going to maybe get stuck in
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the stage for a while, or you might go through
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: a depressed stage and then come out of it. It's
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: not necessarily But the problem with the stage is that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: depression is a recognized mental disorder and grief is not
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: considered a mental disorder, and yet in one of these
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: five widely accepted stages, you go through a period where
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you're you're you have a mental disorder, but it's part
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: of a normal process. And you know, that's basically like
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: taking psychologists and throwing them into the thunder dome, you know,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: greasing them up with chicken fat and handing them battle
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: axes and saying, like, explain that. You know, that's the
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: funniest thing said. Uh. The last one is acceptance, of course, um,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: when you are finally able to move on and UM.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I found that one fairly interesting article where they they
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: charted this and they said it would look like a W.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Is that right, like the high points and the low points. Yeah,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: which I guess um denials the high point, and then
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: it goes down to um anger. Yeah, up to bargaining.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I guess if you feel like that's getting you somewhere,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: maybe it's an up. Maybe maybe UM, at the very
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: least it's manic. I would think, back down to depression,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: and then finishing the W with a nice bit of acceptance. Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And they've as you said that, we've sort of been
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: studying this for like thirty or forty years, and there
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: was always that five stages thing, but recently they're looking
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: more into it, and they've done some studies with widowers
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: and widows, and they found that they really oscillate wildly
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: from day to day and it's not necessarily going to
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: be a w it's I felt great today and really
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: my spirits were up and I was even laughing. Then
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the next day they were really sad. And it just
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: really is all over the map, right, But I think overall,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: what they're finding is that on a long enough arc,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: people emerge from it, and it seems to be somewhere
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in the order of six months to three years seems
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: to be, and I think that's the outliers are maybe
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: six months to three years. That's such a ridiculous time frame,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: but the bolt. But I mean, like if you study
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: enough people, you can probably create like like three months
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to five years, right, you know, no totally and then
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: say anyone else as an outlier. Right, But that's the thing,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: like you can't. That's why everybody is very wisely, um
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: they avoid saying things like that, like this is this
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: is like it's almost respect for the process, Like no
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: one wants to come out and say no, this is
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: how it is. Yeah, because you can't, and that's a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: mean thing to do. And actually there's there's um the
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: grief is is in danger of being medicalized in the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: DSM five one of the proposals, there's a there's always
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: been an exemption to bereavement with depression like a depression
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: um diagnosis if the person has recently gone through the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: press of grief or is in the pressive degree. Um,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you can't diagnose them with depression. You can, but you're
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: not gonna get reimbursed for any meds you prescribed them. Well,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: under the d s M five they're taking away this
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: bereavement exclusion so that doctors can get reimbursed. Yeah, but
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: it medicalizes grief, it says, no, now it's a mental disorder,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: well when it's not supposed to be, and it's a
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: slip slope. Yeah, you know, a temporary disorder though you
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: would hope. So all right, very keen insight, nice work,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you psychology today. Is that where you got it? Yeah? Okay, Um,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: so should we talk a little bit about dealing with it?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I guess yes, Um, you know these are it's it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: good advice, but it's also any time I read something
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: where they're like, take care of yourself and eat right
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: next or so avoid drugs and alcohol. Yeah, but it
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: is very much true. You know that it only is
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: going to make things worse if you wallow in this
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and abuse yourself with drugs and alcohol in don't eat
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and you don't think there's a there's not a therapy
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to pouring like half of a forty out on the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: curb for someone who's gone and then drinking the other half. Yeah,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I mean sure, but don't do that every day for
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: like weeks and weeks starting in nine and you yeah,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I mean I think me and my friends got together
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and got really good and plowed after we got the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: news about my buddy. But but alcohol, my advice is
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to avoid it after Yes, but okay, so in addition
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to avoiding folks and alcohol, eating right and getting regular exercise,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: just the standard stuff. What was that? Also in jet lag?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Every time it's anything, um the the there are like
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: some really good suggestions to dealing with grief. If you
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: find yourself overwhelmed by a profound sense of sadness, there
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: are things out there that you can do to make
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: yourself feel better. You can um write a letter to
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the deceased that's said to help. Um, okay, yet why
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: not uh throwing yourself into stay, making a memorial like
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: those roadside memorials, or a video clip show who knows you? Actually?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: You know what, when my friend added did a video
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: see because his family put together a website like a
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: memorial website, and on the I had video footage back
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: then of m and I did a little video for
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the family. But it ended up really being like a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: great thing for me. It made you feel better, absolutely. Yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: So basically putting yourself into a project there where you're
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: thinking about this person, I imagine this isn't an article,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: this is just me doing some armchurir psychology. But um,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I imagine it forces you to remember good things about
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the person. And so during this time when you're possibly
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: a little more emotionally fragile than usual, you are being
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: reminded of positive memories, positive things as well. You know,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: so you're maybe that's why that would help, but it
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: definitely doesn't help, you know for sure, because when you're
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: going through and do in like a scrapbook, it's these
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: great memories in these pictures and it's not you know,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: you are remembering the good stuff and that like the life,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: which is I think how everyone wants to be remembered.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like these great lives we have exactly
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: you know, you want to be remembered as alive. Yeah,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm one of those people that always wants
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: my funeral to be you know, a little bit more
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: of an upbeat affair, as much as it can be.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You know, where some people like, no, man, I want
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: people really sad, right, yeah, I want to be mourned
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: for days. It's not me. So you want the upbeat affair? Yeah, okay,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I have have a party and you know, make fun
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: of me, but not like G. G Allen's funeral. I
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: have to research that one. I can only imagine what
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it was like. Yeah, pretty hardcore pretty much. Okay, yeah.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Did they inject his corpse with heroin or he's bury
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: naked though and they it was Yeah, you can do
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: some research if you feel like, Okay, man, he died
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: like in a horrible way. Didn't they find him, like
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: murder in an alley, naked and like never found the murderer.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Now I think he killed himself. I thought he was murdered.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I thought he was like stabbed a death. I don't
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: think so. He used to use to threaten to kill
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: himself on stage. That was a big thing, was that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: he's like, one day it's gonna happen. I thought his
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: big thing was like pooping on stage. He did that
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: a lot too. He kept that promise um Man was
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: going to show up in the grief episode. Another thing
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: you can do to UM, I guess kind of helped
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: through the grief process is to throw yourself into a
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: project that you think the deceased might appreciate. Yeah, or
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: some organization they might have been affiliated with, Right, That's
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: what I meant. Yeah, Yeah, like if you lose someone
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to cancer, or maybe get involved with the Common Foundation
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: or one of the other groups or apparently Mad Mothers
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Against Drunk Driving was founded in memory of a deceased
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: person absolutely killed by a drunk driver. One would imagine, UM,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: there's just a lot of stuff out there that you
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: can do yourself. A lot of people pretty much immediately
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: go to therapy, at least initially to get a little help,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to get some insights and advice whatever. Um that's not
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: necessarily the case for everybody, and they've definitely found that
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: therapy is not even necessarily helpful for everybody. There's a
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: lot of people out there who probably wonder if they're
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: dead inside because they don't grieve like supposedly everyone else does.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: But study after study is finding that actually, people who
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: go through significant grief um is a fairly small portion
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of people who experience a loss. Yeah, didn't we have
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: a study in here? Yeah? Right here? Um. They what
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: they do generally is they track groups of widows and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: widowers for a period of time and just have them,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you know, remark about how they're feeling on a day
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: to day basis. And uh, this one was for up
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: to five years, I think, and between twenty had no
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: significant symptoms in the initial years after the loss, and
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: only nine to forty one percent did. And there's a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: big variability there, but they said it's partially from how
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the symptoms were measured. And in another study they found
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that about experience what you could diagnosis depression after the loss,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and only about eleven um had trouble with it, like
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: couldn't shake it after six to eight months, I believe, right,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: And ten percent of people who lost a spouse felt relief.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: These were people that had reported being unhappy in their marriage,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: So there's that those are the ones that danced on
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: their spouses gave. I guess so, And I don't necessarily
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: think it's that cold, but there there could be some
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: mild relief if you weren't genuinely weren't happy in your marriage.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean you're dancing on graves and partying,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: but it might just be like, all right, well, now
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I can go move to us like that always wanted
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: to and hang out with Sammy Hagar. Yeah, and now
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I can do that, right, And my wife also hated
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Sammy Hagar, but I'm gonna go hang out with him. Yeah.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: They also think that men may grieve heavier, even though
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: it's at long believe that women do. Um. But I
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: think a study like that is sort of silly. It's
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: so variable, like from person to person. I don't know, right,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: But we say all this to point out that if
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: you don't experience what other people would recognize as grief,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: there's something wrong with you anymore than there is if
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you experience grief. Exactly. What psychiatry and psychology have started
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to pay a little more attention to is what's been
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: termed complicated grief, And then is technically, if you go,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: say several months to where your life is really really interrupted.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: You can't sleep, you can't eat, You're having trouble focusing
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: on anything but the death of this person, the loss
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: of them, that you start to seriously doubt things very
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: important in your life, maybe like religion, even have lost
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: a child, like there can't be a god, that kind
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: of stuff, right, Or conversely, if you can't even mention
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the person's name or hear the person's name. Basically, if
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: your life is disrupted for many months, then basically everybody
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: from the Mayo Clinic to the a p A. Says
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: maybe you should go see somebody about this, Yeah, because
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: it can also manifest itself and aggression and um violence,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: self destructive um physical self destruction. So it can complicated,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: as is an understatement here for this kind of grief,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I think, right, Um, so there's different kinds. If you
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: go see a counselor with what's considered normal grief, they're
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: probably going to help you let go of the person
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: while still honoring their memory and recognizing them and yeah,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and the impact that they had on your life. But
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to get out there and live your in life, they're
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: gonna try to reach the same goal if you have
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: complicated grief, but they're going to do it a different way,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and they're probably going to encourage you to really form
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: an even greater bond with the person now that they're deceased,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: that you can nurture and hold onto and carry around
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: with you. That makes sense to me. Yeah, and this
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: kind in this case, it's not like you can't tell
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: a parent who has lost a child, like and you
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: know you need to work through this and get over it, right.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And that's actually one of the risk factors for complicated grief.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Grief is the death of a child, the death of
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: somebody that you are possibly co dependent on very very
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: close to, or um the death of a sudden death,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: usually from trauma, say like a murder or something like that. Um,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: those are risk factors for complicated grief. So I would
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: imagine that if you if you had a loved one
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: who is murdered, you probably are already getting some sort
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: of professional attention, and if you're not, maybe you should. Well. Yeah,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: And that's what we're basically talking about, was the difference
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: between grief and trauma, and when you've experienced it to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: that degree, trauma is a whole different deal. They'd say,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: it feels unreal and it's can be terrifying. The terror
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: is the most common emotion. Um. It's common if you
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: have dreams about a deceased loved one, But if you're
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: having traumatizing dreams about yourself being endangered, then you've you've
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: crossed the line from grief into trauma and complicated grief
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: heavy stuff. It is very heavy. Losing a pet is
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: for some people a very very very big deal um,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and other people, well, people that aren't into pets at
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: all don't get it. And then some people that do
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: have pets are just more equipped to deal with the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: loss of a pet and not like it's the loss
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: of a human. But for people like me and Jerry
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: over there, I know that losing a pet, you know,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: is like equivalent to losing, you know, a family member,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and the grieving process is about the same. I would
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: imagine if it's you know, that impactful. And my advice
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: is you should talk to other people who have similar feelings,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: because one of the things that can be toughest about
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: losing a bet is when you talk to people who
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: don't have pets. And I don't think it's that big
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: of a deal to lose a bet, and that that
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: can make things a lot worse. Well, they say that
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: if you, um, if you do experience the loss of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a pet and you find that you're grieving over it,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: you should go ahead with the grief. Don't feel embarrassed
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: or dumb for that. Go light down to the doghouse
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and cry like a six year old. Uh, you got
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: anything else? I ran across one thing. Um. There's a
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: guy in three named Paul Rosenblatt who UM carried out
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: a study of I think like fifty six Victorian diaries
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: of people who would experienced loss. Interesting and UM, so
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: grief is definitely cultural and also historically bound to like
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: UM they found. He found that the goal for these
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: diarists was to keep the person alive around them, like
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: all the time, like they would try to sense the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: person around them, or like maybe sitting their favorite chair
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: because they could tell that they were still there in
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: somewhere or whatever. And that under those circumstances, he found
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: that grief never really seemed to ever go away, that
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: it was something that they carried around for the rest
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of their lives. And in fact, UM one of the
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: things that the victorians did was they would wear black
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: for a year, I believe, and then dark colors after that,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: especially if you were a widow and on the anniversary
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: you wear black too, right, I think so. And you
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: were expected to carry around this grief for the rest
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: of your life. UM. And one of the things they
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: also did that actually still around today was bereavement photography,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: which is post mortem photography. We've done the thing on that,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: have we, UM, and it's we did, didn't we? And
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: we got an email just as recently is today from
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: a woman who lost a child UM and had a
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: cast made of the baby's hands and feet, and she
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: said that it was something that UM has very much
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: helped her through. Yeah. She said it was a gift
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: from the hospital UM to help them through their grief.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And the hospital said, you know, you might not want
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: it now, but we really encourage you to have this
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: one and we'll pay for it, UM, because you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: years from now you may really be happy that you have.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And she said, they're absolutely right. Wow, that's really great.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: What was that email in reference to death as Okay, yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: but it just happened to come in to day when
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: we were researching grief. That's about it. I guess, huh,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: that's it. That's a to Z grief. We touched on
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: every single thing possible. Yeah, I guess. If you want
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to learn more about grief, you can type that word
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: into the search bar how stuff works dot com. Remember
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I before E except after c um, Chuck. Hold on,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: let's let's take a message break. Huh. It is time
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: for a listener man. So Josh, you can, by the way,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: to jump back look into more grief on our website,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: or you could go to Google and look at Pigmy
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: coats the helps too. That's what I would say, all right,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: So now not listener mail, Josh. Today we have nice Chuck,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: well done. All right, So we're gonna this is gonna
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: be an ongoing thing because as usual, they stack up.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Well man, we have very busy work schedule, and we
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: like to say thanks to as many people as possible.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know. Administrative details is
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a segment that replaces listener mail, in which we read
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: out thank you to fans who have sent us stuff, tokens, yeah, anything,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: yep um. For example, postcard of Rapa Nui from Ryan Confort,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: thank you for that. Nice. That's that's Eastern Island. Okay. Um,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Jake Aboard sentence Yellowstone Park shirts, postcards, info cards, hats.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because he works there. Yeah, that was a
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: free sweet kif and he gets a discount. Hepsy hope
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: he is. Um. Thanks to Shanty Diva for the postcard
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: of the monkey k nots. Casey Herring sent us cookies
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and they were delicious. Which cookies the delicious one? Okay,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: not this crappy ones. Um, we got a wedding invitation
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: from Rachel and John Reid. Congratulations, surprising one's astus to officiate.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I do that? Oh man, you just opened the um
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: hitch safe. Inventor Tim Freeman sent it's a hitch safe
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: and that is a little thing that you stick in
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: your trailer hitch if you have a truck pickup truck
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and it's got a little key in this hollowed out
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: and you can like put your wallet and stuff in
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: there if you go kayaking and lock it up. I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: didn't see this well because you're wanted the pickup. Okay,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: did you get a trailer hitch, buddy, you can will
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: split the hitch happier. Um, let's see, we got a
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Christmas cards and postcards plural from Becca Evans at uc
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: s C. Alright, justin Norman, um citisen ergo desk and
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: iPad holder and I'm actually using the one for the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: laptop on my desk. It's quite lovely and it's handmade
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: wood and you can find that debt wood bold dot com. Yeah,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that's really a sight to behold. It's amazing. It looks
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: like plastic, right, but it's would Yeah. Yeah. Um we
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: got a Christmas postcard from Davini d who for some
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: reason was dressed as Wilfred from the TV show Wilfred.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: So thank you Davini. Uh. Lorian Leonard sent us some
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Yemmy chocolates from Thickets in Marshfield, Wisconsin. Yeah, it was lovely. Um.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: We got a copy of the book Brushing the Teeth
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: of Elvis's Monkey and a nice letter from Nurse Beeth,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: So thank you for that. Uh you know what, I'm
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and bust into my books here. Um.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: We got how Colin Why How We Do Anything Means Everything?
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: By darv Siedman. We got Swing Colin That Searched My
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: father Louis Prima by Alan Gerstelluh Science Nearly Explained by
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Dick Maxwell and that is on Amazon. And kindle the
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Vampire Combat Manual from our buddy roger Ma who sent
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: us the Zombie Combat Manual. And I imagine pretty soon
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have a Wearwolf Combat Manual, I would hope.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: So it's Rogers Getting Lazy and Trunkless, which is a
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: children's book from Sean Antoniac and Matthew Antoniac. That was sweet.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: It was like a graphic novel. Yeah, and they sent
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: us some cool stickers from uh eight one one graphics
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: dot com. So those are my books. Um, let's see
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: what else. We got another postcard from Rapa Nui from
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Emily B that rhymes yeah. We got trifold wallets from
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Trifold try hold from Trifold wallets thanice Man. Yeah, you
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: should get paid for this. Is a dude named Lars
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: c who kind of went all over the place and
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: he went to Las Cobos Las Cabos of course, Sammy
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Harry Garth's place, Seattle, Philadelphia, Calgary, Montreal, Nova, Scotia, and
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: he kind of took us with him and sent us
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: postcards along the way. So thanks a lot, large, Aaron Cooper,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: thank you for your cool phone Corps poster versions of
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: some of your best stuff. You should know photoshop jobs. Yes,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: you love these. That's not the first time they sent
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: those either, so thanks a lot erin it's a regular coop. Um,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: we got a nice postogram from Michael Storer. Caroline Larson
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: in this magnetic skulls. Yeah, those are awesome, like a
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Day of the Dead skulls of her own art. I believe,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I think so. Um. I've got her down too, and
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I have her website. It is um, I believe Caroline
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Larson Art dot com. If I come across it, I'll
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: correct myself if that's wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's right. Okay,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I got one more for now, and then you pick
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: one more good one and then we'll pick this up again.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Dunaway send us admitted tree scarf. And this is
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: just a scarf that you go and you pick a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: tree and you put a little scarf on it. Okay,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: and it's pretty darn cute and that makes the city
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: more beautiful. Nice, So thank you Jennifer Dunaway for that. Um.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: And then I got a nice handmade birthday card for me,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: specifically nice from s y s k Army member Courtney Hoover.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: So thanks a lot for that question. Uh, and that's
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: administrative details for this week part one. Uh, as far
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: as this list goes, we've got this for the next
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: six months. And I am right it is Caroline Larson
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: art c A R O L I N E l
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: A R S E n RT dot com. Yeah, get
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: a tree scarf. Yeah, that's what I say. And a
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: school magnet. All right. Oh okay, let's see. If you
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: want to uh tweet to us, you can join us
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at s y s K podcast. You can
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: You can send us an email to off podcast at
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Discovery dot com, and you can send us a good
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: old fashioned website. Visit to Stuff you Should Know dot
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Is it how Stuff Works dot com m