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THE NANNY KNOWS! Missing Mom Jennifer Dulos' Nanny SPILLS FAMILY SECRETS IN MURDER TRIAL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greaese.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: The nanny knows, oh yes she does.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: Babysitter slash nannies, they see what's going on. They know
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: exactly what's going on in the home, and if they
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: don't see it themselves, the children tell them in their
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: own special way. Now, this particular nanny noticed that her
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: boss slash friend, Jennifer Dulo's still had a full cup
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: of tea sitting.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: In the kitchen. What does that mean?
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: Okay, you know how many times I've reheated this cup
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: of tea right here. I don't know, Jackie, what four
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: or five before I can finish the thing because I'm
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: running around doing fifty things here in the studio. So
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Jennifer Doula probably did the same thing, but she never
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: made it back to that cup of tea. She was
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: known to have tea mostly in the mornings before lunch.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: So that's the kind of detail that CSI may miss.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: But the nanny knows. She also knew about the affair,
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: the sex affair, Fotus Dolist was having not worried at
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: all about the five children that would be impacted by
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: his cheating. You know, Joe Scott let me just go
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: to you first. I always hear the phrase men are dogs.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: When you hear that, what does that mean to you?
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: Men are dogs? No offense to all you listeners. I
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: think my husband's probably listening right now. He's in the
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: car on an out of town trip, and I make
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: sure he had Series six M.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: So what does that mean?
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: You're the expert men are dogs? What does that mean.
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: An expert on qualifying whether or not men or dog? Well,
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I mean, as a man, we're gonna answer.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Are you gonna skid her away from that?
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: I'm about to answer, you know, spit it out. Well,
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to be careful here. No, we're not. We're not.
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: We're not all dogs. We're not all dogs because some
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: of us, some of us actually take care of our
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: responsibilities to our wives.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: And skating, you know what, I bet Karen Start won't
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: skate with me. In addition to alleged expert Joe Scott Morgan,
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: Karen Stark is with me renowned psychologists trauma expert consulting
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: at Karenstark dot com. And I always say Karen with
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: a sea so you can find her Karenstark dot com.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Karen I'm not saying all men or dogs.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: My father was completely loyal to my mother.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: My husband, I would bet my life on it, Lord
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: help me that he has never cheated in our marriage.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: So all men are not dogs. I didn't say the
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: phrase was all men or dogs. I said men are
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: dogs and not you, of course, Joe Scott Morgan. What
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: does that mean to you, Karen, start and don't give
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: me any psychobabble that I don't know what you're saying.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: What does it mean?
• 3:10
  Speaker 6: Well, I think it means that there are men that
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: you absolutely can't trust that cheat on their wives. And
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: I think we're talking about a case just like that.
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: You can't say all men because research does show, Nancy
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: that there are women that do exactly the same thing.
• 3:28
  Speaker 6: It's not just men, and it isn't even a majority
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: of men compared to women.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: It's pretty close. Men are dogs. I take it that
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: you mean that men like dogs, will just hop on
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: top of anything that goes by.
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and not be selective, but not care.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Not exactly selective. Hey, you know another thing. Let's throw this.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: To high profile lawyer Mark Sherman.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: He has been joining us from the courthouse where votus
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Dilo's mistress is on trial connected to the murder of
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Jennifer Dulo's mother of five, Mark Sherman. We're talking about
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: the phrase men are dogs. You heard Karen Stark's response way.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: In, Look, it's a lot of them are Nancy. And
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: what happens is in a courtroom, if you can just
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: destroy the credibility of the suspect or the murderer with
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: cheating or lying or stealing, a jury will hold on
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: to that and go down the deepest, darkest path. And
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: it's a really good theme that you could carry through
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: a whole trial.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: Of course, as a good defense attorney, we'll argue, and
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: they're right, cheating does not a murder make.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: But when you do have cheating and you.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: Have a dead body, that's who you look at first,
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: the cheater, I mean, it's he Grace.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: on series sex Sem one eleven.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I've been accused of being a man many many times.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: That is not true at all.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: I love men, specifically my husband and son and dad,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: but I don't love men that murder their wives.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: So let's just kick it off right there.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: Then Nanny is on the stand and she is telling
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: all take a listen to Lauren Almita, Jennifer Dulos's friend
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: turned nanny.
• 5:27
  Speaker 7: To their point in time when the dynamic between Jennifer
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: and mister Doulis began to change from when.
• 5:33
  Speaker 8: You first met them. Yeah, could you describe how the
• 5:36
  Speaker 8: dynamic changed for the jury?
• 5:38
  Speaker 9: The big dynamic change was in March twenty seventeen, which
• 5:44
  Speaker 9: is when Jennifer found out about his affair. In a
• 5:49
  Speaker 9: few months after that, it totally changed.
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: So I wanted to direct your attention down to March
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: of twenty seventeen.
• 6:02
  Speaker 8: Did you take a trip with the Doodlo's family?
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 6:06
  Speaker 8: And where did y'all go?
• 6:08
  Speaker 10: The kids had a two week break and so the
• 6:10
  Speaker 10: first week we spent in Aspen, Colorado, and then we
• 6:14
  Speaker 10: flew to Miami for.
• 6:15
  Speaker 8: The second week. Who went on the trip.
• 6:19
  Speaker 10: The first week was myself, five kids, Jennifer Potus and
• 6:23
  Speaker 10: his friend.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: Mark Maciela joining me in addition to high profile lawyer
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Mark Sherman who has been joining us from the courthouse,
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Karen Start, renowned psychologist Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics at
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: Jacksonville State University, and I have been there and done
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: several recreations with Joe Scott. Their facilities in the Criminal
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Justice School of Criminal Justice are amazing. He's also author
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon and star of
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: a hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Also
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: with me Lisa Daddio, former police lout tenant right down
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: the street from where Jennifer Dulos goes missing. For those
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: of you who can't see me, I just put that
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: in air quotes because she's dead. Haven't ever found her body,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: but I am not giving photus. Dulos and his sidekick
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: Michelle traconis a goal star for managing to get rid
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: of her body.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: She has been a.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: Lead detective on high profile cases like the Annie Lee case,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: senior lecturer and director at the Center for Advanced Policing,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: and graduate program coordinator with the University of New Haven.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: But first to Jen Smith, chief investigative reporter for dlymail
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: dot com. Your coverage has been amazing, Jen. On the
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: few times I couldn't hear the testimony myself, I looked
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: at your coverage and you have really gotten it down.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: To the details.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Another big question and Jenn Smith, in addition to the
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: rhetorical question. Why, as it said, men are dogs. Have
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: you ever noticed that men always cheat down? They never
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: cheat up?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: The cheat? What are you laughing at over there, Jackie?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
• 8:21
  Speaker 11: Yeah?
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: Seedney, you're all happy in your new relationship. Listen, listen
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: to us. Not that you know who would ever cheat.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: That's never gonna happen, I'm sure, But why is that?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Jen Smith?
• 8:33
  Speaker 11: I mean, look, yeah, I mean you make a good
• 8:35
  Speaker 11: point as to why they do it. You know, your
• 8:38
  Speaker 11: guest is.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: As good as my Nancy.
• 8:39
  Speaker 11: I couldn't tell you. I do not get it either.
• 8:42
  Speaker 11: I mean, if we're talking Jennifer Dullus, was this beautiful,
• 8:46
  Speaker 11: loving mother, really exuberant fill of life. This nanny testimony
• 8:51
  Speaker 11: really painted the picture of the kind of women that
• 8:54
  Speaker 11: she was, which I think, honestly, we were sort of
• 8:57
  Speaker 11: lacking before this. So much of the discussion around this
• 9:00
  Speaker 11: case has been about the character of Fociulos and his mistress,
• 9:05
  Speaker 11: Michelle Tracona is now on trial. Yesterday, we actually have
• 9:08
  Speaker 11: seen a clearer picture of what a wonderful woman Jennifer
• 9:13
  Speaker 11: Douloz was.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: Okay, hold on, just one moment, can we just look
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: and believe me. Looks on't everything. My husband, David Lynch,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: he dated so many women that were just beautiful on
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: the outside, I mean, just stunning, and somehow I managed
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: to get him. But looking at Jennifer Dulo's I mean,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: she's gorgeous. Oh gosh, she reminds me of help me
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: figure out who I'm trying to remember Jackie's beautiful movie
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: star with the long dark hair. Anyway, perfect teeth, just gorgeous.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: But aside from her beautiful looks on the outside, she's
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: beautiful on the inside.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Now that's the quality that's rare.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, you can go to some plastic surgeon and
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: end up beautiful on the outside, but beautiful on the inside.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: That's kind of hard to fix. And on top of
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: that and possibly the single most important Jen Smith. She
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: is the mother of five Dulo's children. One is young
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: as six when this went down. Now, are there two
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: sets of twins?
• 10:30
  Speaker 11: Yeah, that's correct. We have two sets of twins and
• 10:33
  Speaker 11: then a fifth child. You know, big family, very happy,
• 10:36
  Speaker 11: beautiful family living in you know, pretty idyllic surroundings up
• 10:41
  Speaker 11: in Ukinan, Connecticut.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Hey, when you say U Canaan, let's go to Lisa
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: Daddio joining us out of West Haven, Connecticut. Former police lieutenant, Hey,
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: you got to be a millionaire just to drive through
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: U Canaan.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 10:53
  Speaker 12: Absolutely. It's one of the most elitist towns in Connecticut.
• 11:00
  Speaker 12: The home values, just everything about New Canaan is unbelievable.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Hey, Sydney, can you look up online the price of
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: their home?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I forgot how many millions of dollars it was.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: But you know what, Jenn Smith I investigated reporter Jaling
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: mail dot com.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Hey, Jen, have you ever been to Aspen?
• 11:17
  Speaker 11: I sure have it that I don't think my paycheck
• 11:20
  Speaker 11: was right.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I was going to tell you.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: I went with a group to Aspen when I was
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: a prosecutor, which you know, I had two night jobs
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: just to make the house note in the car note
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: I did after the first one point seventy five mil
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: out after the first trip up, when I realized how
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: much just a ticket to go up the funicular to
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: the top and ski down, I skied the I was
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: horrible at it, by the way.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I skied the whole day until it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: Got dark because I knew I cannot afford to do
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: that again the next day. So the next day, I
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: just sat around and drank everybody else's hot chocolate, okay,
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: because I didn't want to pay eight dollars for a
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: cup of hot chocolate either, So I just basically moot
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: hot chocolate off people. They call it opery. Ski after ski,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: and it was fun, but it just is so expensive.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: And I'd like to point out, jenn Smith, isn't it
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: true that they stayed at this gorgeous place in Aspen
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: because her Jennifer Doulos's father had like one charity auction
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: so they could stay there.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Photos Doulos, It's not shelling out anything.
• 12:39
  Speaker 11: Jennifer Dulos's father, who was, you know, a very successful
• 12:43
  Speaker 11: impressive here, pretty much a Wall Street wizard, he had
• 12:47
  Speaker 11: won a stay in this beautiful Aspen kind of Shaley
• 12:52
  Speaker 11: mansion and I generously, you know, give it to his
• 12:55
  Speaker 11: daughter to take her her five kids there skiing and
• 12:58
  Speaker 11: with her husband. So Clos was not paying for this trip.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: You're quite right.
• 13:04
  Speaker 11: I mean, you talked about the expense of cat chocolates.
• 13:06
  Speaker 11: But something tells me that maybe Jennifer Dolis's father was
• 13:08
  Speaker 11: helping them out in more ways than just giving them
• 13:12
  Speaker 11: their accommodation for the week.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Time stories with men.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: It'sy Grace parent Starr and joining me, psychologists joining us
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: from Manhattan. I don't know if this is in the
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: d S M the diagnostic What is DSM diagnostic? But
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: I know Manuel and I know diagnostic, But.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: What is the S statistic? Yes, that is much in there.
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: Is what.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: M H paraside.
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: I keep looking, I keep looking for much. They haven't
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: included it yet.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: I'm telling him what you know, if I come in
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: and David lanch is sitting in his chair, I'm like,
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: uh uh, you go right back out there and go
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: back to the office and work some more.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: That's what photos Doulo says.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Now, Jens Smith, isn't it sure he had his own
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: construction company.
• 14:17
  Speaker 11: He did. Yeah, he had launched the four Group, which
• 14:20
  Speaker 11: he kind of presented as a property development firm. It was,
• 14:24
  Speaker 11: you know, more of a construction company building houses in
• 14:28
  Speaker 11: an Iron, Connecticut. Obviously wanted to get into the market,
• 14:32
  Speaker 11: you know, very well. Heeled sort of a group of
• 14:36
  Speaker 11: people up there. So he ran the four Group, but
• 14:38
  Speaker 11: he ran it predominantly Nancy with money that had been
• 14:42
  Speaker 11: loaned to him. He never paid it back from Jennifer
• 14:46
  Speaker 11: Dulas's father. It was around one point seven million dollars
• 14:49
  Speaker 11: that her family gave him to launch this construction business
• 14:55
  Speaker 11: and keep it afloat as he struggled through you know,
• 14:58
  Speaker 11: financial hearts with it in those early years.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Financial hardships. They're skiing and asked when they have a
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: two million dollar okay, whatever, if you call that a hardship,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: go ahead, I guess it's all relative.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Guys.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: Let's cut to more of the nanny on the stand
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: in our cut twenty eight.
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: Did there come a point time during the trip where
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: mister glos told the group via taking the children to
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: an adult club.
• 15:22
  Speaker 8: How did Jennifer reaccon.
• 15:23
  Speaker 10: Hear in this? She like shocked because they were little
• 15:28
  Speaker 10: and they were going to a day club, and so
• 15:32
  Speaker 10: she was like, you were both kind of like disgusted.
• 15:34
  Speaker 8: I guess this is the worst. And what was mister
• 15:37
  Speaker 8: Doule's meer like as he was relaying this information.
• 15:41
  Speaker 10: He was excited that he like paid off the people
• 15:43
  Speaker 10: to let his kids into this day club where, yeah,
• 15:48
  Speaker 10: he seemed really happy about it.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Jim Smith, what is a day club? What is that?
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: You know?
• 15:53
  Speaker 11: It's the clue in the name. It's the daytime equivalent
• 15:57
  Speaker 11: of a nightclub. It's somewhere that you could go. You know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 11: they're quite common on beaches and resorts, you know, sometimes
• 16:03
  Speaker 11: the sea resorts as well mentioned where adults over twenty
• 16:07
  Speaker 11: one will go and drink and dance and party during
• 16:11
  Speaker 11: the day. So it is not an appropriate place for
• 16:15
  Speaker 11: young children by any strategy imagination.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Lisa Daddio, a foreign police lieutenant in this jurisdiction, I'm
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: very surprised that he wasn't arrested right then and there
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: for taking his children to a bar.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Why do not just take him to his strip club? Hey,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: why don't you just.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: Score some crack cocaine out on the street. Why is
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: he taking his children to a nightclub in the middle
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: of the day.
• 16:35
  Speaker 12: Yeah, that's a really good question, Nancy. And again, you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 12: part of it may be where the police even notified
• 16:41
  Speaker 12: that this happened at the time, and if there was
• 16:44
  Speaker 12: an investigation done.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: But regardless of him being a mooch and a bad dad,
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: let's get right down to the murder and what led
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: up to the murderer.
• 16:55
  Speaker 8: Listen, what did Jennifer say to you about the affair
• 16:58
  Speaker 8: when you were in Miami.
• 17:00
  Speaker 13: Yes, well, that's going to be what she told me
• 17:09
  Speaker 13: she believed that Photos was having an affair. She just
• 17:14
  Speaker 13: says she had.
• 17:14
  Speaker 10: This feeling he's been acting weird, and I didn't really
• 17:18
  Speaker 10: believe her at first.
• 17:21
  Speaker 8: I mean, you say he didn't really believe her, What
• 17:23
  Speaker 8: do you mean by that?
• 17:25
  Speaker 10: At that time, I had a good relationship with Photos
• 17:27
  Speaker 10: and I believed him.
• 17:28
  Speaker 13: To be an honest guy.
• 17:31
  Speaker 10: And I couldn't imagine him having an affair where there's
• 17:36
  Speaker 10: five little kids involved.
• 17:40
  Speaker 8: So what did you say to her?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: He said, no, did you hear Mark Truman?
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: The defense attorney, And of course I guess if I
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: were ever a defense attorney, I would do the same thing, objecting.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: And the defense attorney objected quite a bit throughout the
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: nanny's testimony, and I'm sure will continue today. He did
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: not want the jurie to hear what the deceased victim,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: the mother of five, told the nanny that her husband
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: was sleeping around.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: He objected why It wasn't the most aggressive objection that was,
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: And you know, you have to wonder why, because again,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: this is an ad This is someone who is making
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: a statement about something happening you know, way back, no
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: ability to cross examined, and the law says, you know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: that should not be admissible. But I think I think
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: the judge let it in for Jennifer's state of mind,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: not for the truth of whether or not photos was
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: actually having these affairs, but for what Jennifer believed at
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: the time to sort of corroborate and justify her fear.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: And that's been the defense strategy all day, this past
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: couple of days. Is this fear building up over those
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: two year period from the time she discovers the affair
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: to the time that she might go imply for restraining order,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: which we'll hear about later on in evidence. It just
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: is a build up. And that's all about how fearful
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Jenner for Dulos was. If you know, it's fancy the
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: prosecutor asked what was her demeanor? He didn't asked her
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: what did she say? But but they got her in.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: They must have prepped there because she got it in.
• 19:09
  Speaker 14: She got it in deovid.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Mark Sherman. You're a veteran trial
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: lawyer like your dad, Mickey.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Mark.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Also, whoever, whichever one of the defense attorneys that was
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: made another crucial mistake.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: He didn't give the grounds for the objection.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: You can't if there's a conviction later on complain about
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: the objection that was overruled. If you don't state the grounds,
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: you've got to say objection, hearsay, objection, highest and best evidence.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: There's a million objections, and every lawyer should not. You
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: ever seen a handyman doesn't even look down, reaches to
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: his tool belt and pulls out the right thing. That's
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: the way you have to be as a trial lawyer.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: You must know by heart all the objections and all
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: the exception to the objections. In other words, even though
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: this is hearsay, which is not admissible because you can't
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: cross examine under the sixth Amendment of our Constitution, you
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: have the right to cross examine witnesses brought in against
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: you and bring your own witnesses if you so choose.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: That's in the constitution.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: But if it's hearsay, that means the babysitters testifying to
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: what Jennifer told her, and Jennifer is not there to
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: cross examine. That is the basis of hearsay. You can't
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: cross examine it as you are allowed under the constitution.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: There are exceptions, one being course of conduct, motive, frame
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: of mind, and I think that's what the state would
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: have relied on if the defense had articulated grounds for
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: objection unless they objected in the beginning outside the presence
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: of the jury.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: What Mark Sherman, you know.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: I agree. And then I mean you think two the
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: two defense counts are very technical, very experienced. So then
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: you have to ask, well, I'm sure they know this, Nancy,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: so maybe they wanted this to come in. And then
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: you have to think from the defense standpoint. I know
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: there's not a lot of space on this panelist slide
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: that to try to get in the head of defense
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: custom ask where they're going with this, But maybe they're
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: going to the men are dogs there at Nancy. Maybe
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: they want people to believe that Potus was a dog
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: because at the end of the trial they might say
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that Shelch go once with another victim. And again, I
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: don't know if that's where they're going, but something I've
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: been thinking about a lot.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: They can and yeah, that's the way I would do this,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: because I mean, they're stuck with it. They've got to
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: do something with the affair.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: But I don't buy into your theory that maybe they
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: wanted it to come in because there's plenty of opportunity
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: to bring in photos Dulos as a serial cheater. I
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: think maybe one of the reasons they're not objecting every
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: single time it looks bad in front of the jury,
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: to keep getting.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Overruled, overrlled, overalled.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: It makes you look like you don't know what you're
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: doing because you keep making the same with j and
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: getting overruled. And you don't want the jury to lose
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: confidence when you stand up and make an objection unless
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: you're doing idiot just to throw off the other side
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: and ruin their flow. You can't keep standing up and
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: being wrong. You got to be right when you stand
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: up and make a big deal of an objection in court.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sure what their strategy is. We'll see.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Let's listen to more of than Nanny on the stand.
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: Did she indicate you whether or not she planned to
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: confront miss Julis about the affair?
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 22:29
  Speaker 10: Yeah, she asked me, Well, she told me that she
• 22:31
  Speaker 10: was going to and she asked me not to mention
• 22:34
  Speaker 10: anything to him or to anyone.
• 22:37
  Speaker 13: So I was in the.
• 22:38
  Speaker 10: House the next day and when photos arrived too, and
• 22:42
  Speaker 10: so when I got to the house, she pulled me
• 22:44
  Speaker 10: aside and told me that she spoke to Photos and
• 22:47
  Speaker 10: he admitted to the affair.
• 22:49
  Speaker 13: And that she was going to try and have.
• 22:53
  Speaker 10: Us be as civil as possible because she opened up
• 22:58
  Speaker 10: more saying that she was no longer in love with Photos,
• 23:01
  Speaker 10: but she wanted to have five kids, so they were
• 23:04
  Speaker 10: going to try and work out what they could.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: And to Jen Smith, chief investigative reporter for dailymail dot Com,
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: that could have signed her death warrant. Staying in the home,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: staying in the relationship, trying to make it work only
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: exacerbated what was happening. She stayed in it for the
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: sake of her children.
• 23:30
  Speaker 11: Yeah, she stayed in it for the sake of her children.
• 23:32
  Speaker 11: And then when she did eventually, you know, work up
• 23:34
  Speaker 11: enough courage and strength to leave, she had to do
• 23:37
  Speaker 11: it in secret. I mean, that's nanny testify. I guess
• 23:39
  Speaker 11: today that she was slowly moving the items, you know, clothing,
• 23:43
  Speaker 11: her belonging out of the family home because she didn't
• 23:46
  Speaker 11: want him to notice. She knew that the minute he
• 23:49
  Speaker 11: realized she intended to go through with the divorce, he
• 23:53
  Speaker 11: was going to lose it. And you know, she said
• 23:56
  Speaker 11: it will enrage him. I think were the words that
• 23:58
  Speaker 11: were used. That's Nanny, you know, this isn't the first
• 24:01
  Speaker 11: time she has acted as a witness on you know,
• 24:05
  Speaker 11: to help Jennifer. During the divorce proceedings, she gave testimony.
• 24:10
  Speaker 11: She gave evidence about the kind of emotional and sometimes
• 24:13
  Speaker 11: physical abuse she witnessed in the home, and she supported
• 24:17
  Speaker 11: Jennifer's claims about how threatening and frightening, so she still
• 24:22
  Speaker 11: really could.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: Be what was her testimony the prior hearing regarding a
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: beast in the home she.
• 24:27
  Speaker 11: Had spoken during I don't know if it was an
• 24:29
  Speaker 11: in personeering or if it was a written statement or deposition,
• 24:32
  Speaker 11: but during their acrimonious divorce, she testified about having witnessed
• 24:37
  Speaker 11: them arguing in the home. She described one particularly worrying
• 24:40
  Speaker 11: incident where she said she, Jennifer, and one of the
• 24:43
  Speaker 11: children were in one room. Jennifer had her back against
• 24:46
  Speaker 11: the door trying to stop Sootus from breaking through. He
• 24:49
  Speaker 11: was trying to throw his weight through the door to
• 24:52
  Speaker 11: get to them. So really frightening things. I mean, Jennifer
• 24:55
  Speaker 11: clearly had good reason to be afraid of this man.
• 24:58
  Speaker 14: And Nancy it's mark, and they even passed legislation because
• 25:03
  Speaker 14: of this very case in Jennifer's plight called Jennifer's Law
• 25:07
  Speaker 14: that addressed coercive.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Control and this kind of pressure and intimidation. It was
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: really groundbreaking. Unfortunately had to come out of this.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Strategy time stories with Nancy Grace.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Guys, I want to hear more of than Nanny on
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: the stand and will circle back to what we're learning
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: about physical abuse in the home prior to Jennifer's death
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: and Karen Stark. I don't want to lose this threat
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: of thought that the single most dangerous time for a
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: woman leaving a relationship is when she actually decides to
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: go through with it. That and being pregnant, those are
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: the two times she's most likely to be murdered.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: More of than Nanny listen and directing.
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: Your attention out to April twenty seventeen, did Jennifer make
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: any requests of you as to whether or not you
• 26:07
  Speaker 7: would stay on as the nanny?
• 26:09
  Speaker 13: And she asked me to go with her when she
• 26:14
  Speaker 13: was planning to move and I agreed.
• 26:21
  Speaker 8: Where did this conversation take place.
• 26:23
  Speaker 10: At a coffee shop in Avon, which is the town
• 26:26
  Speaker 10: right next to Farmington.
• 26:32
  Speaker 8: Were you still employed by for a group at this time?
• 26:35
  Speaker 13: Yes?
• 26:38
  Speaker 8: Why did you decide to go with.
• 26:39
  Speaker 10: Her because she was my friend and I trusted her
• 26:45
  Speaker 10: and I wanted to help her.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: And now you will hear the nanny who sees it
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: all inside the Dulo's home testify photos. Dulos used the
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: one thing against Jennifer, his wife that she feared.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: The most, the loss of her five children.
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: Listen, did there come a time when Jennifer made a
• 27:10
  Speaker 7: decision to leave for Jefferson Crossing?
• 27:12
  Speaker 10: Yes, we were slowly moving things out of her for
• 27:15
  Speaker 10: Jefferson House, to a property that her parents owned in
• 27:19
  Speaker 10: Pound Ridge, New York, and to a friend's house in Farmington.
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: Did you ever witness mister Doulo's to make any threats
• 27:26
  Speaker 7: about the children?
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 27:29
  Speaker 8: What type of threat did he make to Jennifer that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 13: He would take the kids to grease and not come back.
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: And did Jennifer ever express her fear to you that
• 27:41
  Speaker 8: that would happen?
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 27:42
  Speaker 13: Yeah, a lot.
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: When was this threat made.
• 27:50
  Speaker 13: Throughout those couple months? So April May twenty seventeen.
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: Did there come a time when Jennifer made a decision
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: to leave for Jefferson Crossing?
• 27:57
  Speaker 10: Yes, we were slowly things out of her for Jefferson House,
• 28:02
  Speaker 10: to a property that her parents owned in Poundridge, New York,
• 28:06
  Speaker 10: and to a friend's house in Farmington, things that photos
• 28:11
  Speaker 10: wouldn't really notice being gone.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: So, as Jen Smith told us from Daily Mail, Jennifer
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: was surreptitiously removing items from the home to another house
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: in her attempt to leave without leave gradually without photus
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: dulo's her husband noticing, but back to threatening taking the
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: children away. Karen starked, this is psychological torture warfare, and Karen,
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: I have someone very close to me.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: This exact thing happened.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: The husband is Greek and went back home for a
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: vacation with the wife and the children. Once they got there,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: he announced he had sold the home in New England,
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: sold it and had taken all the passports. So the
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: mother is stuck there with the children, not able to
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: speak Greek. And it took months and months for her
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: to secretly go to pay phones and work out with
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: a relative back in the States. And one day she
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: took the children to go swimming. They left in nothing
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: but their sandals and their swimsuits and t shirts.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: And they got on a bus and they got back
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: to the States. It was awful, Karen, terrible, and it happens.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: It happens, Karen Stark.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: So Jennifer's fears were absolutely real, without.
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: A doubt, Nancy, it happens. We hear stories even in
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: the States, where there's a father who takes the kids
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: and sometimes even kills them so the wife isn't able
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: to have them, just to make sure that he's the
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: one that has the children. And she was terrified of him.
• 30:04
  Speaker 6: Think about it. She couldn't just come out and say
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: I want to leave. I know that you're cheating, I
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: need to leave you. She was afraid of him, so
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: she was slowly taking things out in such a vulnerable position.
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: That's why you have to be so careful when you
• 30:22
  Speaker 6: have children and you say that you're leaving, because that's
• 30:25
  Speaker 6: when men get to be most outraged, that kind of
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: man who's possessive and controlling. Same thing with pregnancy. They
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: sometimes are just not able to deal with the idea
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: that your wife will be sharing her love and affection
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: with someone else, and then you're really in danger and
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: you have to be careful.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: Just imagine Jennifer just about a month before her death,
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: you know, trying to figure out how to navigate this
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: horrible situation. There's so much more that the nanny's said
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: on the stand, But I also want you to hear
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: testimony from another what I believe to be integral witness,
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Lieutenant Aaron litten Rowe.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: On the stand.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Listen to what he had to say about blood evidence. Now,
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: remember he's finding blood evidence the same day that the
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: nanny notices Jennifer's teacup still full of tea and her
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: breakfast granola bar is still sitting there. She never finished
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: the tea and she never ate the granola bar. That's
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: what she had every morning for breakfast and it's sitting out.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: So what happened? Listen to the lieutenant.
• 31:38
  Speaker 15: While we waited, I looked at the vehicle and noticed
• 31:42
  Speaker 15: that there was what appeared to be red blood on
• 31:45
  Speaker 15: the front of that vehicle.
• 31:49
  Speaker 13: Can you please describe what you saw?
• 31:52
  Speaker 15: A red mark on the grill area of the vehicle.
• 31:57
  Speaker 15: And again it drew my attention because it didn't match
• 32:00
  Speaker 15: the color of the grill didn't match the color of
• 32:02
  Speaker 15: the vehicle.
• 32:03
  Speaker 13: Was there any damage to the vehicle.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: No, we did not.
• 32:06
  Speaker 15: We looked at the vehicle, did not observe any damage. Initially, also,
• 32:10
  Speaker 15: Blank myself discussed it possibly could be a deer strike
• 32:14
  Speaker 15: in the roadway. And again there was no hair, there
• 32:17
  Speaker 15: was no damage indicating any such collision with a deer.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: Believe you me, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: When you hit a deer, your car is damaged.
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: Yes it is. We you know dinner in the South,
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: we make a sport of it almost They're they're everywhere.
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: They're like cockroaches, and so we have extensive experience. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: even up there, you know there's a huge white tail population.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: They're aware of what it looks like the external damage. Uh.
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: And you'll have tufts of hair, animal hair that are
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: caught in the grill many times with uh, with a
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: center mass strike on one of these animals, there's nothing
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: to kind of uh frame this like that. So you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: thinking about the dynamic within that garage. And look, I
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: got to give a tip of the cap to Daily
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: Mail real quick because they put an image up Nancy,
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: that is a real big tell here. There's an image
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: that they are referencing as from the floor of the garage.
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: We're not talking about the car here, but the floor
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: of the garage. And the reason I find this so
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: fascinating is that This is what we refer to as
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: a dynamic bloodstained deposition, and what that means is that
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: there is actual movement with this blood. It's not just
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: like free falling through the air. It is something that
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: has been generated either off of impact or cast off.
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: And the beauty of what this is telling us, I think,
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: is that, coupled with other blood evidence that may have
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: been on the floor of that garage, this looks like
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: what would be categorized, in my opinion at least as
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: low velocity low velocity cast off. To me, it's kind
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: of tear drop shape, and as that tear drop narrows,
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: just imagine that, and it comes to kind of a
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: point that gives you an idea about directionality. You know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: how was this blood flying through the air when it
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: struck the surface. And in this particular case, there's really
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: no other way to explain this other than there was
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: an attack I think at least that probably took place,
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: or the continuance of an attack that took place on
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: the floor of this garage, perhaps as she is laying down,
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: maybe being beaten about the head, and this blood is
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: being blown out away from the center point of impact.
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: It's a real big tail, and I'll as the trial
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: goes on, I'm going to be fascinated to see what
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: else is revealed relative to the blood evidence itself, because
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: you know, look, Nancy, as you well know, we don't
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: have a body. The blood is what we have.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: You're hearing the testimony of lieutenant. But how did he
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: get there?
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: So, jenn Smith, we are hearing the lieutenant describing the
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: blood in the garage, the nannies describing the tea and.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: The granola bar.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: But what led the cops to be at Jennifer dulos
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: Is home, because because she's already moved out by this time,
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: she's moved out. This is not the home she shares
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: with Photus Dulos. So what brought the cops there?
• 35:25
  Speaker 11: So this is May twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, the day
• 35:28
  Speaker 11: that she you know, air quotes vanishes. What had happened
• 35:32
  Speaker 11: that day was she dropped the kids off at school
• 35:34
  Speaker 11: at her own eight am. She then returned home at
• 35:37
  Speaker 11: eighth five am. That's the last time anybody saw her.
• 35:41
  Speaker 9: Now.
• 35:41
  Speaker 11: Sinnani Lauren Almita enters the home soon afterwards that morning,
• 35:46
  Speaker 11: notices the purse, the tea they were going to granola bar,
• 35:50
  Speaker 11: but no sign of Jennifer. She then texts her no response.
• 35:55
  Speaker 11: She had planned already to drive into New York City,
• 35:58
  Speaker 11: where Jennifer was schedul to have two doctor's appointments, neither
• 36:02
  Speaker 11: of which she made that day. So eventually, as she's
• 36:07
  Speaker 11: becoming increasingly concerned she's not heard from her boss, Jennifer Doulos,
• 36:10
  Speaker 11: the nanny in New York goes to Jennifer's mother's house
• 36:15
  Speaker 11: and says, you know, we still not heard from her.
• 36:16
  Speaker 11: She's missed these appointments. That evening is when the nanny
• 36:20
  Speaker 11: and another friend of Jennifer Doulos called nine one one
• 36:24
  Speaker 11: and say, we're very concerned. We believe she's missing. That
• 36:28
  Speaker 11: was the reason the police ended up at the whole
• 36:30
  Speaker 11: that night, on the day that we believed, you know,
• 36:33
  Speaker 11: the murder took place in the.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Home, so that's how they got there.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: Friends noticed that she missed appointments, she couldn't be reached,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: and she misses doctor's appointments. The nanny knew again something
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: was horribly wrong. Now, in addition to just testifying to
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: what he sees there, there is also something that is
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: priceless body cam footage.
• 36:59
  Speaker 16: Listen on the very first day of Michelle Treconis's trial,
• 37:03
  Speaker 16: the jury watched twenty minutes of police body camera footage
• 37:06
  Speaker 16: of the scene in the first few minutes of the investigation.
• 37:09
  Speaker 16: The footage shows Lieutenant Aaron Litorro, an Officer Black of
• 37:13
  Speaker 16: the New Cannon Police Department, as they walk through the home,
• 37:17
  Speaker 16: focusing on parts of the garage where officers believe they
• 37:20
  Speaker 16: see what appears to be bloodstains on the floor and
• 37:22
  Speaker 16: on a black suv.
• 37:24
  Speaker 17: On the first day of Michelle Treconis's trial, the jury
• 37:27
  Speaker 17: watches video from police bodycam footage that shows officers looking
• 37:30
  Speaker 17: through Jennifer Doulos's purse. The nanny, Lauren Almida lets police
• 37:34
  Speaker 17: know it's unusual for Dulos's purse to be in the
• 37:37
  Speaker 17: house when she is in home. Police find keys to
• 37:40
  Speaker 17: Jennifer's Chevrolet SUV, but the car is not in the
• 37:43
  Speaker 17: garage or in the driveway. As police began the search
• 37:45
  Speaker 17: for Jennifer Dulos, they also start looking for her Chevy Suv.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: You know, just got Morgan and Lisa Daddio joining us
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: to just got Morgan. The defense tried a very feeble
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: cross examination regarding the blood evidence by claiming that hey
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of things show up with illuminol.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Like rust.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: How do I know that wasn't rust?
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: And they list a few other things that show up
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: when you spray luminol. You know what, they're right, But
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: rust doesn't look like blood. The photos clearly show that
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: it's a blood. It's as you said, cast off, it's spatter.
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: There is blood that looks like a tear drop, which
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: shows you a directional as to where the blood was
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: coming from the direction that's not rust. Does it make
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: the lawyers look like idiots to try to I mean,
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: anybody that watches TV knows about luminol.
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know that it makes them look like idiots.
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: Nancy there, you know it's a defense attorney. They're doing
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: what they have to do. But you know something that's
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: more telling, I think to me, all right than what
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: the bloodstain or what the lieutenant was testifying to and
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: going back to the nanny, this is very compelling to me.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: We have kind of an adage in forensics and specifically
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: forensic pathology where a forensic pathologist will abs in a
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: body to look at a volume of blood and they'll say, okay,
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: judging by this amount of blood at the scene, this
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: is incompatible with life. Okay, so if you've got this
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: much blood, then this person's no longer in the land
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: of living, even abs in a body. And what's so
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: compelling about what the nanny had said Nancy is that
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: the night before she had restocked on these paper towels
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: and she had talked. I think they had like a
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: like twelve twelve rolls. She went to get some there
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: were only two left. So how in the hell do
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: you go through ten rolls of paper towels in one day?
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: That to me gives an indication of some type of
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: cleanup effort perhaps and a large area potentially of blood
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: that was cleaned up. And she's not gonna you know,
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: the nanny's not going to take notice of it. She's
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: going about her everyday life. You know, she sees the t's,
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: she sees, you know, whatever is left behind. She's not
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: that who thinks about blood as a nanny. But you
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: know that I think is key here that even though
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: we're absent paper towels and obviously the blood that might
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: be going along with it, it still leaves a big
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: question mark and it's certainly something that's going to come
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: to the attention, hopefully of jury.
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: List a daddy of joining US former police lieutenant in
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: this jurisdiction of Connecticut.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Lisa's talking about the paper towels.
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: I guess they bought them in bulk, you know, like
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: twelve at a time.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Isn't it interesting, Lisa?
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: What a witness may notice that a cop or others
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: outsiders outside the home would not notice. And I just
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: thought of an example. When my twins go to school
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: every morning, Lucy always shuts her door and John David
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: always leaves his open always. My husband has a favorite
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: belt he wears when he wears shorts, you know, like
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: khaki shorts. And then he's got another belt that he
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: likes to wear when he wears long pants.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: And it's been for years.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: So if I see one belt, then I already know
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: he's wearing the other outfit.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: You know, if I see the.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to say, if I see the belt he
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: wears with shorts, I know that somewhere in this world
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: he's wearing one pants.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Does that make any sense?
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: So what I'm trying to say is people are predictable
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: because they do the same things over and over and over.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: And when this nanny says there's ten rolls of paper
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: towels missing.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: That's a big deal.
• 41:40
  Speaker 12: And let's not forget that nanny knows intimately how the
• 41:44
  Speaker 12: family operates on daily basis because she's there all the time.
• 41:49
  Speaker 12: So while you know, now it's easy to say, well,
• 41:51
  Speaker 12: why didn't she realize that right away or whatever, you know,
• 41:55
  Speaker 12: obviously she doesn't know Jennifer's missing at this point, so
• 41:57
  Speaker 12: she's not going to say, hey, was there a really
• 41:59
  Speaker 12: big spill where you went through gen roles of paper tills,
• 42:02
  Speaker 12: because she can't have that conversation with anybody. But she
• 42:06
  Speaker 12: makes a kind of subconscious note that the paper towers
• 42:10
  Speaker 12: are missing, Oh, the cup of tea is here, Oh,
• 42:13
  Speaker 12: you know, the granola bars there, Oh, her pocketbook, Like
• 42:17
  Speaker 12: that's why after or during an investigation, and especially in
• 42:21
  Speaker 12: this case, obviously asking people who know the family. In
• 42:27
  Speaker 12: this case, the nanny who knows the family better than
• 42:30
  Speaker 12: anybody other than the family members, you know, because she's
• 42:36
  Speaker 12: there all the time.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: You're right, Lisa Daddio.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: Mark Sherman is joining us, a veteran trial lawyer who
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: has been joining us from the courthouse. Mark I found
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: it very unusual that nobody gave an opening statement, so
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: our opening statements not required.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Are they allowed? Just not required in that jurisdiction.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: They're not permitted. Actually, you can only do it upon motion.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: And it's just been one of those things in Connecticut
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: that we've never done in criminal cases. We have our
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: individual jury selection where we get to interview jurors for hours,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: one on one. That's a very unique thing to Connecticut,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: and we don't get to do opening statements. Pros and
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: cons obviously we don't know. Defense attorneys are concerned we
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: preview evidence that we can't deliver on. But in a
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: big case like this that's going six weeks, I think
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: just to put some themes out there, like the state
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: would men are dogs, that kind of stuff would really
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: really help bring some themes across the multi month trial.
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: Well, Mark, when I practiced as a FED and as
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: a state violent felony prosecutor, we gave opening statements and
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: we had individual redire where you individually speak to your ours.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: So I'm very curious why in the world you wouldn't
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: have opening statements, but hey, that's.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: The local rule, so be it.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: I'm more concerned with the evidence. Karen, start, what do
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: you make of what you've heard?
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: Well, Nancy. I mean, it seems pretty clear to me
• 44:02
  Speaker 6: that she's been murdered. This keeps coming up. I think
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: that they're doing actually a really good job of putting
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: the nanny on the stand, because who knew her better
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: than this person that helped her with five children and
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: was friends with her, And from that testimony I can
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: tell anyway that something awful has occurred in that home.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: And also to you, Jen Smith, what happens now?
• 44:31
  Speaker 11: Well, we're back in court, Nancy. We're expecting some, hopefully
• 44:35
  Speaker 11: some moilar testimony from the nanny. The court is being
• 44:38
  Speaker 11: a little bit actually opaque and saying who's up every
• 44:42
  Speaker 11: day and what exactly we're going to hear, So we
• 44:44
  Speaker 11: don't have a detailed run.
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: Through of it yet.
• 44:46
  Speaker 11: But we are also expecting some form of discussion about
• 44:50
  Speaker 11: d any evidence that we don't know if that's pertaining
• 44:53
  Speaker 11: the blood or the trash bags or anything else, but
• 44:57
  Speaker 11: it is something that Michelle Traconez's lawyer do not want
• 45:01
  Speaker 11: to be brought up.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I bet they don't.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: I guess that DNA is the DNA from the thirty
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: Stops where photos of Delos threw away Jennifer's dirty clothing rags, sponges.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: I think maybe even a mop all over town in
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: different receptacles. And the mistress, now on trial, claims she
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: was on her cell phone the whole time and had
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: no idea what was happening. Testimony is resuming, We wait
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: as it unfolds.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Goodbye friend,