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Jim Palmer joins Halo Territory · Foul Territory

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Well, hey Angel fans, and welcome back to Halo Territory
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: on Mike D. Giovanni, former Eli Times Baseball writer, joined
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: by Mark Trumbo, my regular co host and former Angel slugger.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And if you're watching us on YouTube, you can see
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: we have a very special guest today, Jim Palmer, the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame pitcher, the three time Cy Young Award winner,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the three time World Series champion, h and broadcast analysts
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: for the Baltimore Orioles. Jim, really appreciate you joining us today.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: How you doing.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I'm good. Thanks, nice to be with.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: You, all right, Really appreciate it. So we thought, in
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the wake of the Angels sell off at the trade deadline,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it would be interesting to examine the challenges for teams
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: that are quote unquote playing out the string. How guys
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: approached the final two months of a season in which
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: they have nothing to play for.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Jim Palmer has never experienced that as a player. This
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: is hard. I looked it up. I couldn't believe this.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Jim.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: The Orioles had one losing season in your twenty two
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: years in Baltimore. But as an Oriols TV analyst, there's
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: no better example than twenty eighteen. The Orioles were thirty
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: two and seventy five and forty two games back on
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: July thirty first, and they traded away a big chunk
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: of the MLB roster, including Manny Machado, Zach Britton, Kevin Gossman,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Shoop and others in a matter of days. Now
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Jim as a broadcaster and a franchise icon. What was
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: that period like inside the organization and especially for the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: fan base.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Well, obviously the fan base wasn't happy. I mean, this
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: was the team, you know that, well twenty fourteen and
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: again Mark wasn't there. I think Mark Urud did what
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: twenty and sixteen when he led the American League at
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: home runs with forty seven, But in the club, you know,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: so what they were ninety six and sixty sixty two
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: in fourteen, fifteen, eighty one and eighty one, seen eighty
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: nine and seventy three marks first year there, and then
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: progressively if you look, I mean, seventy five and eighty seven,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: and then they would end up what forty.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Seven, one hundred and fifteen.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I don't think he really wanted to
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: sign in Baltimore, even you know, years earlier, Dan Toquet
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: was the general manager. He said, do you think Manny
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: would what's sign an extension? I go, well, I'll go
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: ask him.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: So early on.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: This is not twenty eighteen. This is like, you know,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: he's you know, I've had some knee problems. He had
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: both lika mins and is right and left knee fixed
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: by I think alatrosh Elatroshi. And I went down the cage.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I said, hey, would you sign the sentient? He said,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: of course. But again, when you go into your free
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: agent year, things change and guys are making more money
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: and whatever. So this is a club that got aggressively worse.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, Mark was there. I mean, I mean I
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: did four and thirty two finishes with the Oriels. I
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: did fourteen straight losing years, you know, from like nineteen
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: eighty nine, all the way till when Showwater came I think,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: and came what twenty eleven at their first winning year
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: in twenty twelve. So obviously, when you're as good as
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: the Ools were, you know, now as they were in
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: ninety you know in two thousand.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: What.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Ninety seven, we're in the playoffs.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly, Well, I mean go way back in
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: and also team so again, you know, the fan expected
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: him to be better than they were. But Dan Duke
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: was saying, Okay, we're not winning. I mean, like I said,
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: we ended up forty seven and a hundred and fifteen.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Let's get the best deals we can. I'm not really
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: sure they did, because they probably waited a year long
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: longer to trade Manny Machiado than they should have. Yeah,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: that's always a really tough one. Manny I think one
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: of the most understood players in the game. He was
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: an excellent teammate and I just wanted to get that
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: part in there. This is the first time the Angels
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: have really leaned into people don't like to use the
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: R word, but you know, you get walks like a duck,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: you're gonna call it a duck. So what I'm wondering,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: if you can help the fans, what what does a
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: rebuild feel like for for the players, for the broadcasters,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: for you know, people that are day to day involved,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: having to kind of, you know, put their best effort
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: forward knowing the wins aren't aren't going to pile up.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously, for the fans, I think it gives them hope.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, the oil is a perfect example Michaelias comes
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: after the forty seven and one hundred and fifteen you know,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: one lost record in twenty eighteen, so he comes to
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen and he announces, Hey, we're going to do.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: A rebuild, and how are we going to do that?
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: We're we're not going to be as bad as forty
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: seven and one hundred and fifteen. Well, we're going to
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: kind of do what they did down in Houston, where
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: you know, you're going to hope, hopefully you'll play poorly.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: You get the draft high. Allie Rushman, who just got
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: you know, traded up to Boston, was the first draft
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: choice two thousand nineteen. I had a good friend with
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: one of the Oil scouts. He begged them take Bobby,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: not that Allie's not going to be a good player,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: but Bobby went junior three years younger. A player is
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: going to play one hundred and fifty five tow one
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty games a year based on catcher, maybe
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: catching one hundred, one hundred and twenty five and probably
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: more signable.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And of course we know how good Wit is.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: But they chose Adlie and and you know when when
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Adley came in twenty twenty two, that was kind of
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: at least and I think in the fans' minds and
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: really the ools that this team was going to get better.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: And he really played well in twenty two, twenty three,
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: all the way up to the All Star break in
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: twenty four. I don't know if he had injuries, but
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden he struggled. Last year, he had
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: won thirty three with runners in scoring position. The league
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: average is about two fifty one, so again, there was
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: something going on.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: This year.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: He was having a pretty good year, and the word
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: is I don't know. You know that he wasn't going
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: to sign an extension. The writer called me and he said,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: do you know for a fact? I said no. I said,
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: why don't you ask the GM Mike Elias. He wouldn't
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: have because I think if he did, he would set
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: up pressent Because Gotter Henderson two years from now, when
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: he's has another year on his contract before he become
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: a free agent, you're going to go, well, he's going
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: to trade him. So what if you're an Oriol fan
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: or and you know again they trade Adlie Rutchman and
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: they're only it's a false god. As far as I'm concerned,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: when you're not playing well. But they're only two and
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: a half games out of the wild Cards, so they're still.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: In the race.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Even though to do that, I think you had to play.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: And they're at eleven and what I think they're fifteen
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: or sixteen and ten in their last twenty six games,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: so they're playing better. But again the Red Sox what
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: twenty three and five except ardiculous, And you know we helped.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: We made four eras first night in Boston. They should
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: have ended the wind streak, but we didn't. So yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, Mark, you know as well as I you
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: were there in twenty eighteen. It's it's kind of depressing
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: in one sense. But if you're play and you get replaced,
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: just to think of the opportunity last night against the Angels,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Kate Povitch pitches against one of my favorite young pitchers,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: you know, in Grayson Ron Reguez. Except obviously we know
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: you have to be able to stay healthy. So it
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: gives all the young players opportunities, so they probably look
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: at it a little more positively. But again, if you're broadcasting,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: you're still I mean, you're preparing for the game.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: You're hoping they win. There's why are people want TV
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: or Orial TV.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: They went.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Now Mark the Orioles went fifteen and forty in August
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: and September of twenty eighteen. Do you remember what Camden Yard?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, Candon Yard is one of my favorite plays
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: to watch baseball throughout the nineties. Places just rocking. This
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: is a great atmosphere, playoff atmosphere every night. What do
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: you recall it being like those last two months of
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen?
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: The on field play was at fault. I mean, the
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: fans continue to support, Maybe the stands weren't quite as
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: crowded as they would be for a team playing significantly better.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: But as a player, you do the best you can,
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: and I took a lot of pride and giving my
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: best effort despite the fact the team wasn't doing well.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: It looks even worse if you just are pouting and quitting.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: It's bad enough already, don't make it worse. And for
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: a lot of you know, in my situation, I was
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: an older player, had signed a contract and wanted to
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: honor that contract, and I felt like because of that,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: there was nothing else to do but give my best effort.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: If we happen to rack up you know, another loss
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: that night, you just kind of have to eat it. Unfortunately,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: what happens on teams that are really bad, losing gets
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: too familiar and it doesn't sting. And when it doesn't sting,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: I think that's a big deal. Now, in Jim's case,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think you played on too many teams that
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: were under five hundred. Maybe it was astounding when I
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: looked at the Orioles records while you were a player there. Yeah, well,
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I mean I liked well, I lucked out because I
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: was a a couple of years before the draft, and
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: you know, Houston offered.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Me more money.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I ended up signing with the Oriols at night. Ten
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: teams called the next day. But I think I made
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: the right decision. You know, you know six World Series,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: we won three of them. I mean, even the ones
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: we lost, other than the Mets series, where I mean
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: it's just bad experience because you know, on fire breaks
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: they were obviously the amazing Messs, so they were a
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: good team. But the two series and seventy one and
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: seventy nine against the Pirates, they were great. You know,
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: seven game World Series, you lose two to one, you
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: lose I think five to one in the seventy nine
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: World Series on the final day, So you know, yeah,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: I was. I was really lucky. And then, you know,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: how do you win many games as I did. You
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: play on good teams, which is why I never left.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, I knew that all I had to do
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: is try to figure out how to stay healthy, be
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: able to go out there thirty eight, thirty nine, forty
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: t times a year, and I was gonna win a
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: lot of games because we did a lot of things,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: you know, right, And to Mark's point, teams that don't
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: they beat themselves, They lose the one run games they're
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: you know, they don't expect to win. So you do
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: play for yourself, you know. The late Mike flank And
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: used to always say when we would trade for a
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: guy that came from a losing team, you said, you
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: just can see he does not play for the name
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: on the field of the uniform. They're used to playing
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: for the team that you know, their name on the
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: back of the uniform, which for themselves. And that's kind
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: of what losing teams it kind of it kind of
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: fosters that in a sense, and that that's not the
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: way he play the game.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I believe Marquez The next question, Okay, where are.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: The Orioles go? What are they doing? They trade badly.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: I understand if he wasn't interested in signing a contract extension,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: then logically I think that that does make sense. They
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: but they've already done one rebuild, very painful. It took
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: a while, but it did pay off, not in the
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: form of a world series, but they did have a
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: lot of success under Brandon Hyde. You know, some good seasons,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: and they reshuffled. There's new instructors every year. You and
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I have talked about some of this, but you know,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: the Angels are doing it for the first time, and
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: I guess you want to get it right and try
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: and emulate teams that have sustained success. Brewers raised teams
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: like that unless you're a big spender. But what do
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: you see from the Oels now? Just is this just
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: a reshuffling, restocking? What's going on?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: You know, when Michael Eyes came in twenty nineteen, he said,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: we're going to create an elite pipeline. Now again, when
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: you're drafting number one, you hope that you know again,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, they take Adlie over Bobby with Junior. They
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: do get Gunner Henderson, who was I think the fortieth
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: pick that year. So pretty talented player, even though this
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: year he's been struggling, you know, and then they don't
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: draft pitchers. That's why I think the Adelie Ruschman trade,
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: you know, in getting Taylor Word who you know, was
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: with the Angels hit thirty six home runs career high.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: I mean normally years, what twenty three, twenty six, somewhere
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: in that range when he's healthy, but he only hit
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: seven one at Camping Yards. Now they could change left
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: field used to be three sixty four. Now it went
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: to three ninety eight. Now it's back in a little bit.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's you know, it's kind of weird, but
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: I think they thought they had a team that could compete.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: But again, one of their best young players is Jordan Westburn.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: And when you take him out of the lineup, you know,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: the Oarls don't beat lefties. You know, they're going to
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: face Red Deptner's tonight and I'm going, okay, not only
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: is he a good pitcher, he's left handed. What did
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Pete Rose say, if you're breathing in your left handed
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: you got a chance to play. So you know, again
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: we are in a rebuild of sense, but a lot
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: of times when you know, like when they traded Cini
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: and Lopez and what twenty twenty twenty two, after only
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: winning fifty some games a year before, Mike Alas said,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: well left off, Well, then you trade two of your
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: better players. But in twenty three they you know, they
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: won one hundred one games, and you know, after going
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: from fifty seven to eighty three, then one hundred and
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: one and ninety one. So again this is a team
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: that you think on paper, I mean they'd signed Pete Launce.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: They traded for Shane Bobs, who has pitched a lot
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: better than his record because they don't score any runs
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: for him. You know, they've had some injuries, you know, Helsley,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: they got him as a closer.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: He's been popping on the il. You know.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Trevor Rodgers last year had his the most incredible seventeen
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: game streak that I've ever seen, and I've been in
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: baseball over sixty years. Had a one thirty one ERA
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: after which seventeen starts, you know, you go on a run.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: I mean I went on a run once where I
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: you know, I had thirty three in the third, scoreless
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: innings and you think you're not going to get you
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: any run. But to do that, he gave up six
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: runs in his last startup in New York because he
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: you know, for eighteen starts one to eighty one and
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: he started out poorly. Now he's pitching as well as anybody,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: but they haven't extended him. So I don't I don't
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: know what they're going to do. They have the highest
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: payroll I think in the history of the Orioles and
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: they're three games und five hundred. So again, is this
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: a rebuild? I don't think so. But once again, you
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: know the Ali Rushman trade. You know, you don't think
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: it's going to happen till it does. One of the
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: writers called me last night and they said, well, do
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: you know that he turned down an extension And I
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: said no, I said, why don't you ask the GM
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: And he said, well I did, you wouldn't answer it
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: because if you did, that means when Gutter Henderson two
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: years from now and he's Scott Boris.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: You know, he's one of the best agents in baseball.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: But automatically, if he doesn't sign an extension, he's going
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: to be traded in the middle of the season, So
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I don't think you want to verbally set that precedent.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: So it'll be very interesting what they do. But they
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: needed pitching. Apparently they got from the Red Sox two
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: really good prospects.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: But Mark knows as well as I do.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: You know, cal RIKENSII always say there's suspects in their prospects,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: and the prospects get the chance to get to the
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: big leaguers probably a little bit sooner, whether you got
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: a big lot of money to sign or you know,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: you throw ninety eight or whatever. But the minute you
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: get to the big leagues, you're a suspect again until
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: you prove that you can play the game at a
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: high level.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he Ken Rosen. Ken Rosenthal in the Foul Territory
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Network has mentioning things to say about this Rushman deal.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: The Rushman trade to me was the defining trade of
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: this deadline. It was fascinating ADLEI Rushman going to the
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Boston Red Sox for a number of prospects, and it
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: kind of, as I wrote, demonstrated two teams at opposite extremes.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: The Orioles, a team that was supposedly going to be
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: a commpetitive contending type club by now. They talked about
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: lift off their president base operations Michael Oias did in
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty two. They didn't lift off, they haven't crashed,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: but they've kind of gone nowhere, and now they've traded
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: the guy they picked number one over Bobby Wick Junior
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen, the guy that was really the signature
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: piece of their rebuild, the guy who they talked about
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: keeping forever and yet never signed to a long term extension.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: That guy is, of course, Rushman. And the reason that
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: this trade for the Orioles was so deflating to so
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: many of their fans is that it kind of acknowledges
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: that the whole thing hasn't gone according to plan. Fans
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: are asked all the time, trust the process, stay with us,
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: their Oriols fans did. Through some really hard years. They tanked,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: they got some big picks, and now they are not
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: starting over, but certainly retooling in a way that is
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: going to require more patience. Now they've got pieces in
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: place going forward, they'll be okay. They've got Alonso and
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: they've got Basaiosne signed long term. They've got pieces in
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: their rotation. Pob Bradish. Of course, Shane Boz. Long term,
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: they can extend a qualifying offer to Trevor Rodgers. But
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: fans are right to ask, hey, man, what's going on here?
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: Why is that?
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Jim as Mark said, the Angels are finally committed to
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: a rebuild. It's really the first time since I can
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: ever remember. But are the Orioles with What's going on now?
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Something of a cautionary tale for the Angels, especially they're
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: fans who might be thinking this is a smooth, linear process.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Well, it worked for the Oriols. It's just they couldn't
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: sustain it, and could you know. So they went one.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Hundred and one and then they win ninety one.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: They go to the playoffs two years ago, they get
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: swept by the Rangers, who win the World Series in
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. That's a good club, but it had
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: an inexperienced club. And you know, Brad's got beat in
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: game one, really good game. I think it gave three
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: runs and Oils didn't score. And then Grace and Rodriguez
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Dean Kramer who's Jewish, right after what happened in two
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: thousand and seven, and he's going to go start a
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: playoff game, and a lot of things on his mind, man,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: other than baseball. What happened in Israel or in Gaza.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: So and then the next year they play Kansas City,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: and you know, they lose, what three to two, and
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: then they lose two to one. So they're a good team,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: but they're not a great team. And then you know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, next year they start
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: out fifteen and twenty eight and I'm on the elevator
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: in Anaheim and the club's not playing well. You know,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: it's game three of the Ools playing in Anaheim, and
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Mike Elias, the GM says, you ever see a team
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: go from all the way up here to the bottom?
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: And I said, not one with good pitching. And you know,
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: you went back to your point. I never played on
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: a team that didn't have good pitching. So you're in games,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: your players think you're in games. I don't know, Mark,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not going to speak for you, but
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: because you were a terrific hitter, but if you don't
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: think you have to get seven or eight runs a game, yet,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: you can get three or four, or I can get
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: a big hit, or I'm going to be involved versus
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: not going to be a slug fester every night. I
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: think you got to think you have a better chance
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: of winning games. And all the good clubs I played
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: on had excellent pitching. That's a perfect segue. I was
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: going to ask you I personally like short starts four
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: and a third hundred pitches.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: No, I don't. And it's been.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: The downfall of many you know, the Angels have struggled
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: in a number of areas, but one short start not
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: only taxes that night bullpen, but the games to come,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: and it's been really tough. My question that was really
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: going to be what are they getting right? And maybe
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: the opposite of right with the modern pitching. We just
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: watched the miz You know, I used to throwing a
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: million really impressive arm. There's still a guy's doing well.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Grayson did give them length last night. He went seven innings,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: but the majority of the time I'm seeing these guys
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: look awfully happy after their five innings, and for you,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: that would have been a I mean, it's just done unfathomable.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming five innings that's a failure. Well, we had
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: a guy that just got traded a starting pitcher, and
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: about three years ago he went to Cincinnati took place
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: to pitch, but just four innings, it was up ten hits,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: six runs.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: So I didn't. I mean I watched the game.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: But and then I'm going down to Houston to the games,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: and I was talking to the locker room and I said,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: you know what went on in Cincinnati. I mean, I
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: kind of watched the game. He said, well, you know,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: I actually kind of like my metrics and my pitch shapes.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: And I looked at him. Can I give you a
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: little girl Weaver? He goes, or a Weaver.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: I said, yeah, the Hall of Fame manager that's got
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: a statue at you know in Campion Yards. I said,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: if you told Weaver to your point mark, when you
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: blew out the bullpen by only going four innings, give
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: up ten hits and six runs, and you told him
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: that you liked your pitch shape or patricks, he would
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: have said, so did the kid, and if you keep
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: that up, you'll be down a triple A Rochester. So
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: the game is different. You know, a couple of years ago,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: they don't like me to talk to the pitchers or
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: or even being around him because the media is kind
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: of the necessary evil in Baltimore with the pr people.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But I suck into the locker room before opening day
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: and Tyler Wells, you just got traded down to Tampa Bay.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Actually pretty good. Was pitching really well for the Oils.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: So that's another trade. I mean, look at Brian Baker's
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: number they traded him last year. I think he's got
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: close to thirty saves. So just Tampa obviously, you know
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: they know what they're going to do with their pitching.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: But so tider Wells said, you throw a lot of pitches,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: and I said, well, the year I was twenty, everybody
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: got hurt in spring training. I thought I was going
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: to Triple A and I you know, my first start
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: was in Fenway Park. I throw one hundred and seventy
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: seven pitches, you know, strike out seven, walk seven, hit
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: a home run off Dave More had to pitch before.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: And then of course they sent him out the next
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: day because he hung our curve ball, almost shit it
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: to the turnpike. And they asked start pitching coach, Harry
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: the Kapercine, you know, really great left handed pitcher for
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: the Cardinals, who's our pitching coach. It's a lot of
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: pitches for a twenty year old, he said, yeah, we
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: want to get that pitch count down into the one forties.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: So tdder Wells is starting to last. But that's the
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: way it was.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, you did what you could do. And I
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: mean I know because we pissed every four day that
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: you can throw one hundred and twenty five thirty forty
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: pitches in your sleep if you have a good wind up,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: if you know how to pitch. And I guess my
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: point about the oil pitcher who just got traded to
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: the Midwest is that it's not a It's about can
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: you what's the hitter doing when you come through the
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: minor leagues? And I think in a ball, I mean
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I walked one hundred and thirty one hundred and twenty
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: nine innings, went to instructional league, so I pitched one
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: hundred and eighty innings, probably walked on a hundred ninety guys.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: The next year, I'm in the big leagues. But I
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: got to pitch. I got to earn how to get
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: hitters out. I didn't have somebody on the iPad that
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I'm talking on right now saying, well, you know your.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Spin rate is this, and you know you need to
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: real ball and you need to do all that the.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Hitters told me what I needed to throw. I used
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: to have and I don't know if you ever did
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: this mark when you're a young player, even when you're
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: an older player. I used to have guys that wanted
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: to see live pitching come down and when I'm throwing
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: my side or before a game, I wanted to hit
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: her standing up there. I wanted to simulate what the
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: game was going to be like when the game started.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: And meanwhile, I mean, if I'm like, we have a
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a rule of five guy, you know, or a number
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: one draft choice, five million dollar player, Colden Capser doesn't
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: hit lefties, doesn't It strikes out too much. It was
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: a back to ball guy in college. He doesn't hit
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: left handers. Every time Trevor Rodgers would throw, were now
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Kate Povid, who pitched against the Angels last night, I'd
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: be down there track and pitches.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I know they have all the machines, but there's nothing
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: like seeing.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: The ball out of your hand. One of the greatest
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: articles ever was Sporting News with Tony gwyn and Stam
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Musual talking about what they saw the pitcher delivers the ball.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Now that's thirty six and twenty hits and a batting titles, saying,
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: we noticed the speed of the ball out of the hand. No,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you agree with that, but tracking pitches,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: you know, it's pretty important when you're trying to be
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: and I do agree, but it cuts into your rest
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: and recovery time. So hitt feel that in practice is uh,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: it's just not what it used to be. Two three guys,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: I said, where is everybody flarity? When they came into
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: town last year in the Cubs? I said, this is
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: it justin Turner and one other? But but no, I
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: mean all aside the game. The game has changed. Guys
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: don't play in practice outside as much. They need two
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: and a half hours of quiet time. What is when
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: you get to the playoffs and you actually have to
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: writers and you and then then I was told this year,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: well we I said, you don't hit outside anymore? Now,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Pete Alnso said, listen, I'm going to hit outside because
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I want to know what the background's like, because you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I'm I just got one hundred and fifty five million dollars.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: I don't have the mess ever. Let him go. He's
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: the real dude, you know.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not hitting as well with runners and score ambition,
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: and he's a strikeout guy. But he plays the game
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: every day as hard as he can possibly play, and
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: he's my type of player, so to he'll do that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: But I was told, he said, well, we score more
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: runs when we when we don't hit outside, And I go,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: so are we going to factor in who was pitching
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: that day?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: You know? You know or you know we don't beat
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: left handed starters.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Well, what's the team e or ra for our guys
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: the days you don't beat left handed starters. I don't
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: give you the whole picture. So again, I don't know.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I played with some of the greatest players, Brooks Robinson,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Frank Robinson, you know, Cal Rippon and Eddie Murray and
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: you know, all Hall of famers. He took back batt
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: in practice and wolves, you know, and that's what he did.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: And you know, and I tell you now, Baltimore used
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: to before global warming, Baltimore used to be hotter.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Well you'll probably notice Jim Marc is forty years old.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I believe he's as old school as they come. That's
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: what we love about him. Hey, you mentioned Grayson Rodriguez
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: being one of your favorite young pitchers. We have certainly
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: not seen the best of him in Anaheim this year,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: but it looked like he had had a maybe what
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: we hope as a breakthrough game on on Monday. On
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Tuesday night, What did you think of Grayson? How does
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: he look to you? Is he starting to look like
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the Grayson Rodriguez of old?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, you know, he was twenty and eight for
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: the Ords.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, but he got a lot of runs, got
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: over six runs a game, and what he needed to
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: do when he was healthy, which he looked like he
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: was healthy last night. I mean, last night's is a
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: hanging slider to Alonzo and a lead off walk that's
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: got him in trouble. And that's so if you're going
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: to walk the leadoff guy, he better strike some people
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: out or whatever. And he did make a good Pete
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: you know, Hagen slider, the Pete Alonzo two run single
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: and there's it's two nothing, you know, and then he
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: pitches seven innings only doesn't go through any more runs.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: He's healthy and he's smart.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: He's a hard worker, but he's got to figure out, Okay,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: I need to be more consistent. So when I have
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: a bad game, it's my ear is not six or
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: seven months a game. So because once again my point is,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: if Mark's playing, you know, right field for me, I'm
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: going to make him.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Think as the starting pitcher, we have a chance to
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: win that night. And how do you do that?
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Stay away from beginnings and when Grayson did pitch well
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: for the Oriols when he was healthy the.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Beginnings, you know, gott in the way.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: So again, talent guy, hopefully of pitch well because you
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: know he's a he's a good guy.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's really a good guy.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: And it's the last number one draft choice the Ools,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: or at least high draft choice the Oils I've ever
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: actually had, and that was Dan Duquett being the general manager.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: How much better do you think you would have done
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: had you had a catcher or with his glove flopping
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: all over the place back there, well than you a
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: target moving tar Well, Carlos, he actually put the glove
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: up yesterday. I mean, here is I know, I know,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: and he held it. Now he held it and I
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: tweeted and Ben Ben McDonald's we've been talking about this.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: He does the games and I don't do most of them.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: And I said, you throw it to the glove. I
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: mean how do you have the plate sevent eight inches wide,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: you can make it about another two point eight on
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: both sides. So what that's almost twenty three inch or
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: twenty two inches somewhere. Because all you have to do,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: and we've seen it with the Avs, have the edge
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: of the ball on there. So if I want to
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: throw the ball out of the middle of the plate,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, how do I want to pitch Mark Trumbo?
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Not down the middle unless I want to see how
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: far the ball went, you know, my neck, So the
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: point is down in the way. Well, okay, okay, you know,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: like I said, twenty sixteen to lead the American League
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: in home runs with forty seven. There's three hundred and
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: ninety hitters now in the big leagues, if you you know,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: thirteen position players, maybe not hitters, but guys that go
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: to the bat, and then you have you know, you know,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: three hundred, three hundred and ninety pitchers. How many of
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: those three hundred ninety hitters have they said, where is
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: the optimum ball to hit hard? How many would say
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: lo and away? Mhm, Well you just try and pull
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: it over the left field fence. Well there, yeah, they're away?
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: There are they are very few Tony Gwinns left in
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: this game.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Jim, well, no, but you know I went to with
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Bobby Gritch and Rock Groo and we were talking about that,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: and Bobby said, no, he played behind. I mean, you know,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Bobby should be in the Hall of Fame. His numbers
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: are higher than Ran. His war is over seventy seventy one,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I think, or something like that. One of the more
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: one of my favorite teammates was of his intens and
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: he said, well, you used to, you know, kind of
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: down away and.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Then ride the ball.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: We've got a Gritch fan.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought how intess he was, you know, how
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: good a player he was.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: And I saw, you know, we're having dinner and I said, yeah,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: down the way and I said, Roddie, I said, how'd
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: you hit down away? Well, you know this is a
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: guy that one said Betty Fell, I actually hit that
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: pitch pretty well.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: But you know what's going.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: To happen the lone away fastball to right ear lefty
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: if you do it early in the game and you
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: find out that the hitter will cover the outside corner.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: It's an information pitch. It makes you better, you know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: if the guy won't do it. Why would I want
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, right now, I mean, I throw a guy
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: fastball on the way, you know, outside corner of the play,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: and if.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: You took him, I throw another one.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not an audition Broadway.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to show him that I can sing,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: dance the odel and all that stuff. I want to
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: see what he does, and I want to see as
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: quickly and early in the game because I'm going to
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: pitch deep into the game.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: So if he takes it, I throw another one.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: If he takes it, I probably throw another one because
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: if he can hit it and he covers the outside corner,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: probably going to be susceptible up and in, maybe not
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: hit the change up very well or the you know,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: the breaking ball. So why wouldn't I want to find
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: that out? See now, everybody tells you to you know, wow,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: this guy can't hit the ball well.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: When you pitch, it's a very visual thing.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, Mark, I would assume some guys you see
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: the ball better than other guys, regardless of what the
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: velocity is. Pitching, Just where's the bat hit? You got
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: to watch the badhand. You have to go out and
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: watch them take batting practice. You have to sit on
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: the days you're not pitching and talk about the game
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: and who has good bad speed, and who has a
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: slider speed back. All these things we learned. We weren't
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: totally now, you know, they say, okay, you need to
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: do this and all that. Throw a fastball right by
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: and they go, oh, go not a good breaking ball.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Hit or speak the bat up with a breaking ball,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: and you wonder why you give up more runs than
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: you want to. Yeah, you can learn a lot by
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: watching the game. That's why you know the iPads and stuff.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: So did a really good job for us young players.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Well they just frankly booted us out of the video room.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe just me, but I think Borgos was there too.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: But his point was, what are you going to learn?
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: You just have to breaking ball in the dirt? What
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: you know? What more do you need to know? If
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: you want, if you want, I want to look look
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: at you know, a strike that you fouled off, But
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: really you don't even know which way is up. So
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: get out of there. Bobby Bray. You can go in
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: there and you're going to stay on the top step
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: and you're going to watch the game. But it was
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: invaluable advice a little harsh of the time, but or direct,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: I should say, but I appreciate that. That's the type
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: of thing that I'm not going to get off on
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: a tangent. But the Angels, you know, I think that
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: they're a candidate for, you know, a manager with a
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: little firmer hand. I've said it previously, and you've got
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: young players sometimes they need guidance and direct guide guidance.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: So the fact that they don't let you talk to
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: pictures as much, or maybe it's not as encouraged, is
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: tough to hear that. You know, right there that clip
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: we can just put it on repeat and send it
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: to them. Well, well, yeah, I mean I had a
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: friend today, you know, my wife works out at Orange
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Theory and Nords from Bob used to be a vice president.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: He says, have you ever talked to the picture? I
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: got the Baltimore.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: In what nineteen sixty five and here we are in
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: twenty six and they have never asked me to talk
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: to the pictures.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Now, doesn't mean I don't dumb pictures. You know. We
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: had a general manager who went to the Cardinals.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: First thing he did the next bring he said, hey,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: we come up and talked to our you know, minor
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: league pictures, and I said, you've got Bob Gibson.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: He said, no, we want to hear another.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: And I'm out there and I you know, And I said, so,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: you know, who are the two best pictures in the
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: National League the last ten years?
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Oh? You know, Schilling and Johnson. I said, no, no, the
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: last ten years Maddox and Glavin.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: I said, what did they throw about ninety ninety one?
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I said, how many guys throw ninety one? Everybody's hand
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: on it. I said, but could you throw a change
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: up in any count? Can you pitch the both sides
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: of the plate, can you field your position? Can you
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: throw the low and away fastball when you need to?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: So that's that's kind of you know, I don't think
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: the game has changed. It doesn't mean that guys don't
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: hit low and away fast but you kind of know
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: where they are. And you know, if you have a
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: baseball field, it's this big, and I mean, you could
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: hit the ball anywhere out of the ballpark. But if
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: you have a guy's you know, that's you take the field.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: And if I have left hand, hit her up and
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I know I'm gonna throw the ball along the way.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I can take that field and make it that much smaller.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I canise, I can now I can have the same
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: amount of a venders in a smaller field. Now, doesn't
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: that make sense? But you know now, I mean I
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: last night, you're you're catcher. You just you just got him.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: He hits a little roller in the right field. More baller, Yeah,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: but whatever, But I mean, no, you're right, Yeah, I
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: mean the hardest thing. And as a hitter has got
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: granky Dan Haren, all these guys stealing strike one down
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: in a way very frustrating. You're behind in the count
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: now already. And I planned to hit it, and I was,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: you know, you go up there with it. I'm going
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: to be aggressive and it's just not a pitch. You
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: can do anything with it. So the brain says nope,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: and then oh one again and again, you know, against
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: these good guys. So I appreciate that. I think Mike's
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: gott got a final question for you.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to ask you this, Jim. Speaking of
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: great pictures, you and Tom sever were two of the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: greatest of your generation and my generation. I grew up
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: in Connecticut in the sixties and seventies seventies. Tom sever
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: was my favorite player. But you guys did not face
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: each other in the sixty nine World Series. You did
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: start opposite of each other in the nineteen seventy All
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Star Games Cincinnati. But as far as I can tell
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: a research of mine this morning, you square it off
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: only once in the regular season, on April twenty third,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, when you were in your last season
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: with the Ools and Sever was at the end of
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: his career with the Chicago White Sox. What if anything,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: do you remember from that game in Kamiski Park, And
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: did you guys develop a relationship through all those All
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Star Games or whether it's a mutual admiration or respect
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: over the years.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: Well, Tom Siver, yeah, buddy, you know struck out eight
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: thousand people one three hundred and eleven games, my first
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: All Star game. You know, Willie Mays, let Off Rose
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: hit second, bench hit you know aeron fourth. I think
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Dick Allen has just got in the Hall of Fame.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: He hit seventh or something like.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: That was the only headache had when I looked at
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: that lineup.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: But I pitched against Tom and Dave McNally, who won
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: twenty games for US four times he would eventually be pitching.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: When when they would lose an extra.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Innings, Peter Rose playing third base, and I dropped a
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: bunt down and I took he threw me out and
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I come back and Dave McNally says, you know, you
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: get a little bit of power. Why didn't you try
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: to hit a home run off with Tom Seaver? And
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I said, what are you crazy? What do you have
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: to do is let's see April. I don't remember the date,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: but in nineteen seventy he struck out nineteen yea. Not
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: only did he strike out in nineteen he struck out
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: the last ten batters of the game. So mark point,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: you think he threw more than ninety five pitches that day.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I mean he could. You know, he was terrific.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: And to your point, to your point of course, we
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: used you know, we were both on the Baseball Assistant
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Team board, so I got to see him. They have
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: a big dinner, used to have a big dinner up
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: in January. You know, we're both in the Hall of Fame.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: I have a great picture of us when of the
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Little League World Series. You know, on Friday night after
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: we both retired and the only cover I ever made
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: of Sports Illustrated.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I'm on one side.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: And Thomas on the other, which is you know, awesome. Yeah,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: I mean I get people. In fact, people sustend it
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: to me. And I'm going since Tom passed away, it's
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: gonna be a tough autograph of only I autographs. I
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: probably should come up with a Thomas Ever autographed. Make it,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: you know, less valuable or whatever. But you know, one
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: of the great pictures of all time, and and terrific guy,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: and you know, tragically you know, Alzheimer's or whatever.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: And I loved his wine.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he had a great vineyard up in
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: the Napa Valley and I think g TS named after
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: his dad. So you know again, I mean, if you're
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: a Mets fan, I wish you know it's your point.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: I wish I had actually pitched against him in the
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: sixty nine. Well, he gave up a couple of runs.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: I pitched against Gary Gentry in Game three and we
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: got shut out. So but he was he was Tom terrific.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's kind of some what a what a
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: great nickname.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: If memory serves at A young right hander named Nolan
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Ryan finished that Gentry game.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: It could have.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: All I know is it was one of our best
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: breaking ball hitters and Nolan and people forget that, you know,
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: it's relief pitcher for the Mets. And he threw him
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: a curveball and Paul's rear end was in our dugout one,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it's not that jacked up, you know, radar,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: there we go. Christ was the last out. He threw
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: him a two two change up for.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: The final out of the no hitter in Anaheim. And
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: he pitched games and.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I'm going, how do you see the ball? I mean,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: you know he's from you know, legitimate one hundred hundred
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: and one, and yeah, I mean he was knowing, but
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: he was a little bit wild. He walked me on
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: a three two curveball throwing a hundred. I'm not sure
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: that was a very prudent quite all right, runt against him?
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Pardon, do you ever bud against.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Nolan or are you out of you know that? Yeah,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: guys that try to bunt, he would he would throw
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: the ball back in. You know, he'd walk about halfway
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: maybe even a little bit closer to home plate, get
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: the ball and rub it up like this and just
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: go try that again. You know, no, no, no, no
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: no no, I just I just figured if you wanted
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: to walk me for me too, I'll go down there.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: At least he didn't hit me, you know. That was
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: what the DH was, what came in in seventy seventy three.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think I was ever hit by a pitch,
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: you know, from sixty five to seventy two.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was fortunate.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: I didn't hit that many either, only hit thirty eight.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: All right, hey, we are going to end the show
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: with that Jim Palmer Hall of Famer Baltimoreal's TV Analysts.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate your time and input. Mark Tremble, thanks
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: as always. Hey, thanks for listening, thanks for tuning in,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: and please like them, subscribe and we'll see you next
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: time on Halo Territory