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Why did people hate the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge? · Ridiculous History

• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Nowadays here in the States, national parks are national perks,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: or at least they're considered that way. Do you like
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: how that rhyme? No, Yeah, like perks, like like they're
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: they're good. Yes, p E r k s that's the wordplay. Yes,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: is there a different perks? I'm sorry, I'm I need
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: some coffee perked up because I'm kind of fading right now.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Oh you're banned, by the way, Yes, the rumors are true.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Of fellow Ridiculous Historians. We hope you have found the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: podcast you were looking for. With our super producer, Casey Pegram,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and most importantly, with you, specifically you, we have formed
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History. Today's episode is about something that I think
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the three of us are all pretty big fans of
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: national parks. Yeah, they're cool. It's so cool, natural, natural
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: splendor in the grass or the mountain, the stream, purple mountains, majesty,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: all that stuff, super majestic, majistical. If you've seen a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Hunt for the Wilder People, I still have not watched it,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: he says, majistical a lot. The kid that was in
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Deadpool too, he's a kiwi um and he is a
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: delight watched that movie. If you haven't seen unrelated, total
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: non sect but worth it, worth it because that also
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: has a lot of natural beauty in the story. Right. Yeah,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: it's about a family that lives out on the in
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the bush of New Zealand. And yeah, I imagine they
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: have some sort of system over there to designate land
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to keep people from you know, messing it up, mucking
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: it about, right, sure, even if all because of the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings. And what I always loved about
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: growing up here in the States was this preponderance of
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: land wherein you can you can just go camp, you
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: can just go adventuring. I know it's one of our
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: mutual dreams to write or burrow into the Grand Canyon.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: We have discussed that multiple times now that you mentioned it. Um,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the thing is them, And so I'm assuming that you
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: are saying you stand squarely in the four National Parks camp. Yes, absolutely,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: And are you a little more divided on this one? Well,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: after what I've read in today's story, I I maybe
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: have to have one foot in, one foot out, because
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: it turns out that National Parks could be a real
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: thorn in the side of working Americans throughout history and
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: well today, right because the National Park system was created
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: way back in nineteen sixty and August twenty five in
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: this country, and we're going to explore how how these
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: became a surprisingly controversial concept to a lot of people.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: So our story begins today in nineteen o eight, when
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: President Theodore Roosevelt established something called the Lake Malheur Reservation
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: in Oregon. And I believe that our friend Casey Pegram
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: has a little more insight for us on Lake Malheur. Yeah.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So the word maller French u could be uh considered
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: like an antonym for bonner, which is happiness boner. So
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: mallard kind of means a lot of things depending on
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the context, but they're all bad. Um. You could say
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: it's a misfortune, a calamity and ordeal and accident. Um.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there you go, Mallard lake bad. Yeah, well
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: that's said. That's foreshadowing also, Casey the case indeed, Um,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: let's just get a few Let's let's deal with some
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: semantics up front right here. Okay, we we we talked
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: about national parks, like that's what we're talking about. And
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: while the system that created national parks is very much
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the same system that created wilderness refuges and designates, you know,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: wildlife reserves and things like that. They're not exactly the same, right, Yeah,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: there's an important distinction to make because when President Roosevelt
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: established this reservation, it was the nineteen of fifty one
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: wildlife refuges that were ultimately created by Roosevelt during his tenure,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: he was just making refugees left and right. You know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: he was a bit of an outdoorsman, he was, indeed, No,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: he was. Indeed. My question though, is can can we
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: can we spell it out for the listeners and for
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: for my dumbass exactly what the differences between a wildlife refuge,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: a national park and a wild i reserve? Yes we
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: can with a little help from Ali Berman writing for
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Mother Nature Network with the article parks versus refuge what's
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the difference? So in this article, which is fantastic, pretty
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: comprehensive by the way, we learned that there are several
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: different manners in which government land can be set aside
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: for specific purposes. So first, there's the national park. Everybody
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: knows that idea think of Yellowstone, right, and Yellowstone was
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: established way back in eighteen seventy two, so it's the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: predecessor to the early nineteen hundreds plans laid by Woodrow
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Wilson with the National Park Service. Then they're also state parks,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: which are like national parks, but they're under you know,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the management of an individual state. Then there are national forests,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: which are also different, and the difference here comes in
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: terms of the level of conservation. So national parks have
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: preservation at the forefront of their priorities. National forest have
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a larger array of activities like cutting down trees for timber,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: cattle grazing which will come into play later, and mining.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: National preserves are open to the public, and the differences
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that preserves typically allow activities like hunting, trapping, or mining.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And then of course there are national monuments, things like
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Stature Liberty, Mount St. Helen's National Recreation areas, state preserves,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: state nature preserves make environmental preservation a top priority. For instance,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Indiana calls its state preserves living museums, so these are
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: protected for scientific research and educational resources. That means that
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: human activities are much more regulated. But the reason that
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Teddy rose about den to designate the malleor wildlife reserve,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: it was because of ladies fancy hats. Yes, did you
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: know that? Yes, it's absolutely it could be men's fantom size,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: any fancy hats in general, because at the time Mi
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: MI mimum, which was the nineteen early nineteen hundreds, UM,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: they were quite in fashion. Uh, these hats, these fancy
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: hats of all shapes and sizes, but an important feature
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: was the plume. Right, yes, you see milliners, which is
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: our word for today. People who make fancy hats, specifically
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: for women were always searching for feathers to put in
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this headgear, and the search for birds to supply these
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: feathers was quite a profitable industry. Right. So in the
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: increasingly desperate efforts to satisfy this wild demand for fancy hats,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: people had nearly wiped out several species of birds that
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: supplied these fetching, colorful plumes, including birds like snowy egrets
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and ruisie spoon bills. The spoonbill also the great egrett
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I believe, was also very much in danger. And it
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: was this guy named William L. Finley, who was a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: conservationist of the time, UM, who had particularly hung out
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: around that area and taken a survey, and he discovered
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: only two egrets in a month's time. And here's the thing,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: there's another article I saw. You know who Audubon is,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: You know of the Audubon Society and painter, right, John
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: James Audubon, that's right, Ben, the great American painter of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: birds who lived from the late seventeen hundreds to the
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds. And he was quoting in his day,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: um as you know, he would go out and paint
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: these birds from real life, and he would say that
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: he had no doubt in his mind that in amount
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: of progress that America could possibly make, including building cities,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: increasing population, hunting, what have you, that there were just
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: so many of these damn birds that there was never
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: going to be any threat. Obviously, he wasn't a scientist,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and he was completely wrong, right because we know that uh,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the that US civilization was also incorrect about the passenger pigeon,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: which used to blacken the skies as they flew overhead,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and they don't do it anymore because they are extinct.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So back back to Finley. Here you can see how
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: this is a splash of cold water. So Audubon dies
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty one, and beforehand he makes this comment
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: about the plenitude of these beautiful birds. Finley in that
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: search you mentioned. Noel uh Finley is searching in nineteen
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: o eight and only sees those two egrets during a
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: full month. But he also does something else. He does
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit of investigative journalism. He interviews a plume hunter,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: one of the who supplies these feathers two millioners, and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: he learns that a good plume hunter on a good
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: day can make five hundred dollars cash in nineteen o
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: eight dollars. Now, could you do us a favorite whip
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: out the inflation calculator for that? I can. In fact,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I don't even have to, because the Pacific Standard dot
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: com did it for us in the article the Odd
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: History of Opposition to America's National Parks And according to them,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: five per day, and those days translates to more than
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars in today's UH cash, which that's insane.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Let's just be real obvious here. He's not just going
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: around plucking feathers. He's he's killing the birds, and they're
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: skinning them and taking their carcasses home and and tire
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: and wiping out entire populations. Uh And and he boasted
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: this guy um that he was going to take that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: all the way to Mexico um and just hunt them
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: like a like a murderous criminal across the west. So yeah,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it was this report when delivered to Roosevelt that shocked
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt into action, and he wanted to help out these birds,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: these three birds that were left there species I'm sure,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: but sure, And and of course there were probably other
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: birds that he had not been able to find during
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that month of searching. But still the problem is apparent.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: So Roosevelt sets the land aside that same year, nineteen
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: o eight. He works fast, right, and for a while
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: this seemed to be a workable solution. The population was
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: beginning to recover, the population birds, that is. But by
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: nineteen twenty things started to go wrong because there were
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: still agriculture happening around the area right there, taking resources
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that are in this area, and they're sucking them out
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the same way Daniel day lewis uh in there will
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: be blood, says I drink your milkshake. Farmers in nearby
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: areas are draining water from the rivers that feed into
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Lake Malur, the Sylvies and Blitzen rivers specifically, and this
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: means that the lake begins drying up. And what happens
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: as a result of that, the lake goes well, yeah,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the it turns into a dust bowl, right, Yeah, it
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: becomes a terrible place for these birds. It becomes alkaline, right,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: And what does that mean exactly? That does that have
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to do with like the balance of the nutrients in
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the water or I mean if if if it's dried
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: up entirely, that's one thing. But as an alkaline kind
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of that's what happens before it dries it up entirely,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, it's the pH scale goes off. So
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: an alkaline lake, also known as a soda lake, has
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: uh a pH value between nine and twe one extreme
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: example of this, there's an excellent Smithsonian article I found
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: about an alkaline lake in Africa. And this article is
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: written in by a guy named Joseph Stromberg. It's got
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: some scary pictures. He's looking at Tanzania's Lake Natron and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the title is this alkaline African lake turns animals into
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: stone man. That's the article I've been looking for this
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: whole time. I actually thought that this lake Maluor was
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that one. But no, you got to see these pictures, folks.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: They are outrageous stuff of nightmares. Horrify and we'll post
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: them on ridiculous historians. So so bad things and and that's,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, per our previous casey on the case foreshadowing
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the lake is basically called bad lake, and bad things happen.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: This group of people in Oregon starts thinking, why don't
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: we just get rid of this whole thing entirely? Who
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: needs a lake? Just call it off. It's a it's
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: just it's become a dirt hole. Let's make use of it.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Let's sell it to farm is they're good at dirt. Yeah,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: they need it. It's literally a prerequisite or being a farmer.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: You gotta have some dirt. But they knew people might
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: already be against this, you know, early environmentalist a conservationists,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So they did a little bit of marketing right to
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: try to really sell the idea. Yeah, they really did.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: They agreed that the proceeds would go to benefit oh,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: public works and schools. I want to say, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: So in this article from PS mag, there's a fantastic
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: ad from of the day that's posted in a tweet
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: from Danielle Brigida, who works for the United States Fish
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service, and it's a picture of I'm assuming
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: one of these spoonbills, because it has a very spoon
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: like bill and a baby arms outstretched as though they
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: were both posed in front of like what looks like
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: a floppy gray cloth backdrop, and the birds in profile
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: looking a bit threatening to it. It looks like it's
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: gonna eat the child. There it is every bit as
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: big as the child. And the headline is which is
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: best for all? Over again? This maybe be all this
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: bird that's tough? Uh, And then the bottoms vote for
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the baby three seventeen times. No. So yeah, this bill
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: was basically fighting against the people that were trying to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: keep this thing going despite the bad conditions. And we
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: should read a little bit of the copy here just
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: you can see how ardently they were endeavoring to phrase
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: this as birds versus babies. Right right under the headlines
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: that we read to you, there's another headline that says
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the Mallard Bird Reserve, I'll do Transatlantic voice. We'll take
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: fun ball again forty seven thousand acres of its most
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: valuable school lands. So wait, acres of school lands. Yeah,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that's that's the hook. It's giving them a cause, right, yeah,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: because who do you think would win in a fight
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: between a bird and a baby a bird, I think
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: so it depends on the size of the bird. But
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: looking at this bird and this baby, clearly the bird
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: has got no question about especially that that giants spoon bills.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: You're the size of the baby's entire head. Yeah, it
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: would spoon the spoon the kid's head right off. But
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the thing about this was that they also added concerns
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: about another naturally occurring life form in wetlands, mosquitoes, And
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: in this complaint they talked about the dangers mosquitoes might
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: pose to Oregonians, and not to mention the fact that
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: these um these birds were apparently actually stealing grain from
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: the farmers who could potentially benefit from the land. Right
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: And that's a big sticking point in all of this
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: kind of national park wildlife refuge argument, at least when
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: it comes to certain parts of the country where folks
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: could really benefit from those lands. Right here in the city.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: If we hear we think about a national park, we're like, cool,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: that's awesome, save the egretts or whatever. But if you're
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: a farmer and you need somewhere to graze your cattle,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and Uncle Sam has swooped in and take a huge
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: swath of land might have a different tune to play. Yeah,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and I want to spend some more time on this
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: mosquito threat as well, because we again have the benefit
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: of being in the modern age. So it may seem
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: like an exploitative or manipulative point, but the truth is
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that the complaints about mosquitoes are less about them being
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: annoying and more about incredibly dangerous diseases from the time,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: like malaria. So I think that is also a valid point,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: and that that's another aspect of this incredibly valid or
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: at least understandable argument, wherein somebody in a rural population,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: by a national park, or by a reserve, or by
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: some sort of refuge, maybe saying I feel as though
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you are putting the lives of animals over the lives
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: of myself, my community, and my family, because malaria was
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: still kind of a problem in that area. Apparently it
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: had wiped out a lot of the indigenous people early
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: on in the eighteen thirties, but yeah, it's still had
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: stuck around. And if you've got a breeding ground for mosquitoes,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: malarial mosquitoes, no less, that's a real problem. In a
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: pretty good selling point for this, uh this campaign. So
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: what happened next They did one of the most American
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: things you can do. They took out the court. Baby,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: you defeated it. I mean it did it went away right? Uh. Well,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the state said that the Feds had stolen They said,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: more or less, Uncle Sam stole this land. They didn't
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: have President Roosevelt as commander in chief and as the
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: leader of the executive branch, never really had the right
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: two call the shots for this land in the first place,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: and went all the way to the Supreme Court. Kind
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of reminds me of that story we talked about with
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: your pops about Franklin. There was just like a bunch
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of land that they just kind of took it upon
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: themselves to do something with. There was once a time
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: where that was a thing. Yes, yeah, this happens, not
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: so not so far after it. So, by the Supreme Court,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: having considered the issue air quotes the issue, right, theydicated
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: there we go. Yes, they ruled in favor of the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: federal government, and they said that this land does in
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: fact belong to the Feds. This refuge, this reserve is legitimate,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and Uncle Sam had the authority to protect the wetlands
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: from people, even if you know it endangered the livelihood
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: of those same people. So you may be wondering, friends
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and neighbors, where where this story goes? How does it end?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: It feels like you might be thinking that Nolan I
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: did a little bit of an abrupt cut. But we're
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: not ending the story. We're moving ahead because this argument
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that occurred way back in nineteen resonates today and remains
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: important today. We see many similar arguments, as a matter
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: of fact, happening as recently as what in old Yeah,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: that's right, what're were talking about? The the the militant
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: takeover of the Malord National Wildlife Refuge. Is this what
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: we're talking about? Yes, yes, all of one. So so
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: could you tell us just a little bit about this
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and how it transpired? Yeah, Well, I mean there was
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: a group of armed militiamen um and the Bundy family
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: and their followers, headed up by a guy named Aman Bundy. Yes,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Amon Bundy, not to be confused with Solomon Grundy. They
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: just rhyme or Ted Bundy. Ted definitely not to be
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: confused with Ted Bundy or Al Bundy. Um. You know what,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I'll allow it, okay, alright, so Amen Bundy Uh participated
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: in something in two thousand and fourteen called the Bundy
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Standoff at his father's ranch in Nevada. This this was
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: a very controversial and sensitive topic because other members of
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: his group, the one that you had mentioned all this,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: this Bundy group, were loosely affiliated with militias and something
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: called the Sovereign Citizen Movement. So without getting too far
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: into the Bundy Standoff, we we wanted to give you
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: just some some background on this guy. Uh. He is
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: an American car fleet manager and his his father was
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a rancher named Cliven Bundy, and his father was a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: leader of this Bundy standoff in which Aimon took part.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: And there problem was that they were refusing to pay
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: grazing fees for taking their livestock on federally owned public land.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And they said, well it's public land. We're just trying
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: to make a living, right, why are you putting this
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: land over the livelihood of human beings? And it's that
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: same argument Uncle Sam stole it right, This argument from
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: still thematically applied in two thousand and fourteen. But before
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: we get to ten Uh, there there's some things that
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: led up to the Bundy standoff there in Nevada. Right, Well, yeah,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: it was sort of a bit of a domino effects situation.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So a guy named Dwight Hammond Jr. And his son
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Stephen Hammond. Um, we're actually sentenced to pretty significant jail time.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Believe they both were sentenced to five years UM. And
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that is because they set wildfires on this protected land. Well,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you know, set wildfires, I guess, but they set fires
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: on the connected land to prevent wildfires from damaging there.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: You know, you you burn things to keep things from burning,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: which seems weird, but make a break where there's no
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: combustible material, yeah, or relatively little. Yeah. They set one
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: fire in two thousand one, one in two thousand six,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: and then in two thousand twelve. They were both charged
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: in relation to these fires. And I believe you know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: the way they said it was that, um, one of
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: them got out of hand. But according to an article
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: on CNN, Bundy, um who did the standoff? Who was
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: you know, the one of the guys who was the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: leader of the of the militia group that you know,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: overtook the refuge headquarter, which apparently, by all accounts was
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: completely uninhabited and the doors were open, and this standoff
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: was like not really much of a standoff at all,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and he never really led on too exactly how many
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: people he had there, and it was kind of a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: whole lot of sound and fury signifying not a whole lot.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: But their arguments were that the government should give up
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: control of this refuge so that hard working you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: ranchers and farmers can do what they need to do,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: whether it be grays their cattle or you know, mitigate
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: these wildfires in order to make a living. So it's
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: that same argument of like this is more of a
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: problem than it is a benefit. So concurrently, while they're
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: going through the legal issues with this, the Hammonds the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Bundy's are having the standoff. In twenty US courts vacate
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the charges against Stephen and Dwight Hammond, and this has
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: already attracted the Bundy family to their cause. And the
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the idea is that when when the court vacated these sentences,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: they didn't just let them out, they re sentenced them
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: pretty much immediately to a mandatory minimum of five years
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: in prison. And the Bundy said, you know what, we're
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: gonna protest this, and the Hammond said, apparently, guys, we
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: don't really need your help. Yeah, a lot of people
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: apparently said that. I mean it was it kind of
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: had the look of that the Bundy's were overreaching a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: little bit, kind of doing something that maybe no one
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: quite asked them to do. Because there's this great Vice
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: documentary where they go to a town hall and a
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: lot of the folks, the ranchers, the community is like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: these guys are jerks, Like they're making us look bad,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: and they're making us look like a bunch of militant
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: whack jobs, and that's not cool. It's not a good look.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: So I did it did seem like their gesture was
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: not appreciated by all. Let's say that absolutely. So we
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: know that the Bundyes were big fans of arms standoffs
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: right right, and they were they saw themselves on the
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: right side of history. Is it a standoff though, if
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: you do it at your own ranch? Like who who
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: was after them at their own ranch? I'm confused about
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: that one, yeah as well. Right. But in twenties sixteen,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: this group of armed militants seeking to um I guess,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: bring more attention to the Hammond case. They seize the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: headquarters of the Malor National Wildlife refuge there in Harney County, Oregon,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and they occupy it until law enforcement finally arrest everybody
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: on February eleven, sixteen. Their leader aim and Bundy not
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to be confused with anyone but out and uh there.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Motivation for this was again to bring more attention to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: that same old argument from the nineteen twenties. They wanted
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: to uh persuade the public decide with them in the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: idea that the United States Forest Service and the Bureau
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of Land Management and other similar organizations are constitutionally required
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: to turn over federal public land to individual states. So
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: no federal parks, no federal reserves, only state level stuff,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: got it. So does that did it really accomplish anything?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Is that was that? It was that a positive step because,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, the guys that set the fires originally were
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: pardoned by by President t Rump recently too. So does
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that mean that the current administration is a more sympathetic
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to the needs of these farmers and more likely to
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: maybe get rid of some of these refuges. It's that way.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: That's an interesting That's an interesting question to know. I mean,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: there's always been some degree of tension between the federal
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: level of governance and the state level of governance, you
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? For instance, well, we've already done
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: several episodes wherein we learned that handful of states were
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: completely okay being their own countries for a while. Right, So,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: as of today, this argument continues, and we have to
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: ask ourselves what is the solution, if indeed a solution exists?
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You know, are we are we to put ourselves in
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a situation where the quality of life for human beings
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: is sacrifice for the sake of biodiversity? Are we to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: put ourselves in a situation where we sacrifice biodiversity and
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: wildlife or natural ecosystems for for people's livelihoods? And then
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: obviously it's got to be somewhere perfectly in the middle,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: right right right, You got any ideas, if so, we
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: would like to hear them, so right to us directly.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: We are ridiculous at how stuff works dot com. And
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: we know this is kind of the circuitous, weird one,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: but I thought it was fun do a little backstory,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: bring a full circle to the now. And I think
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you did a really good job man, by the way,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: especially considering your bird thing. Oh god, I didn't even
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: think about that oh, I had to. I had to
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: hold it till the very end. But if you would
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: like to learn more about this, if you would like
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: to see some of those insane pictures of animals from
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the Alkaline Lake. Almost looked at those, dude. It's like
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I shed my bird fear just for this episode, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: then you reminded me and it all came flooding back
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and like a like a murder of crows flapping back,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: flying back. I'm gonna need you to finish this one, so,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, you can see those pictures on our community page,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. You can find us on Instagram, you can
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, and you can check out our
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: website for every single show we have ever done. We
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: don't tweet doing, but we were. You and I spend
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: more time on the Instagram and the Facebook page. That's true.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: We need we need to get a little more personal
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: with that Instagram though. I looked at the other day
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and it was kind of a sad site. Let us
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: know what you would like to see on the Instagram
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and we will. We will pop in there ourselves and
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: get a little bit ridiculous with it. But in the meantime,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: our website is ridiculous History show dot com. And we'd
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: also like to you know what, listen on a positive notal.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite national park if you're not in the States,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: what's does your country have an equivalent? Yeah, let us know.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Um and we had also, of course, I thank super
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram Alex Williams, who composed our theme. I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: like to thank you Ben and thank you Noal for
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: waiting till the end to mention the fact of this
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: episode was about birds, coca, broke coca, and um. Yeah.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Most importantly, thank you guys for listening and tuning in
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and join us next time when we talk about something
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: else that's right old tune in for our next episode
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: when we explore the surprising origins of Oregon. Let's see
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: it then, folks,