Latest / Pod Save America / An Obama Arrest a Day Keeps the Epstein Files Away

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An Obama Arrest a Day Keeps the Epstein Files Away · Pod Save America

• 0:00
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  Speaker 1: first month free. That's simplisafe.com slash crooked. There's no safe
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: like Simply Safe. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Tom Evitor.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Lovett, welcome back.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: It's good to be back.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Missed a slow couple weeks.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Slow couple weeks.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: We'll talk about it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: How black was your news blackout?
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: All I saw was every day you were filming a
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: new video about the Epstein files. And beyond that, I
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: really didn't click in to learn more. I really tried
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: to stay out of the news. I was like, what
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: the fuck happened?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: This is Pod Save Epstein now.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys went wall to wall.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: We sure did.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: You gotta cover the news.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Well, we have a big show in honor of your return.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the Venezuelans who Trump disappeared
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: to Seacott, who have now been released in a prisoner exchange.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that. And you'll hear Lovett's
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: interview with the lawyer who represents the now freed, Andre
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Hernandez Romero, Lindsay Teslowski. We're also going to talk about
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Trump's continued crackdown on free speech with his new lawsuit
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: against the Wall Street Journal, his fight with Harvard, and
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Paramount's decision to cancel the late show with Stephen Colbert.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Then at the very end of the show, we'll respond
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  Speaker 1: to some fan mail from friend of the pod, Hunter Biden.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: But let's start with Trump and his old friend Jeff.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Two enigmas with wonderful secrets. Lovett, I think the most
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  Speaker 1: succinct way to explain what you missed these last two
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: weeks is that Pam Bondi, right when you left, Pam
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Bondi said they won't be releasing any more Epstein files.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: And now Trump is posting AI videos of the FBI
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: arresting Barack Obama. So you're all caught up. Yeah. A
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: bunch of stuff happened in between. But it's like the little,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: it's the domino meme. Right, right.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Well, I just, you can't say that something's on your
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: desk for review and then say it doesn't exist.
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  Speaker 2: Right, it's tough.
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  Speaker 3: Because what was on your desk?
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  Speaker 1: Files.
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  Speaker 3: Files.
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  Speaker 1: But not the files that we can see.
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  Speaker 3: But she said they were there. She was going to
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: put them out.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And she looked at them and said, no.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Just says Trump all over them.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. So Trump's latest attempt to change the Epstein
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: narrative involved a posting spree on Truth Social, as it
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: often does. posted more than 20 times on Sunday night alone.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: That included saying Adam Schiff should go to jail. That's
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  Speaker 1: a whole other story you missed. He also threatened to
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: tank the Washington Commander Stadium deal if they don't change
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: their name back to the Redskins. He also wants the
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Cleveland Guardians to go back to being the Indians. Didn't
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: want to leave them out.
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  Speaker 3: By the way, I found, I didn't know that. I
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  Speaker 3: didn't know that name team had changed. No, yeah, they
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: changed their name from the Indians to the Guardians.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple years ago. Wow. He also posted a
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  Speaker 1: three-minute video of Various stunts that began with a woman
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  Speaker 1: in a bikini throwing a snake.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: That one was just like, you know when people sometimes
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: post like best Vine compilation? Yeah. It was just like that.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: There was no captions. No, no context. It was just
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: like weird. I don't know what was going on there.
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  Speaker 1: He posted an AI photo of Barack Obama and various
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  Speaker 1: Obama officials, including our own Ben Rhodes, in jail. And
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  Speaker 1: then he posted this AI generated video of Obama being
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  Speaker 1: arrested by the FBI in the Oval Office. No one.
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  Speaker 1: especially the president, is above the law.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: No one is above the law. No one is above
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  Speaker 4: the law.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: No one is above the law.
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  Speaker 5: Oh, son of a.
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  Speaker 2: Bitch.
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  Speaker 1: So for those of you who are just listening, that
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  Speaker 1: was Donald Trump and Barack Obama sitting in the Oval
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  Speaker 1: Office and then the FBI comes in and they arrest
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  Speaker 1: Barack Obama. of course, while Village People is playing in
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  Speaker 1: the background.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's what's happening there.
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  Speaker 3: I was in the Duomo. That's the big cathedral in Milan.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: There were these kind of ancient inscriptions of like Latins,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: like they were hard to see in the wall. And
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  Speaker 3: so I used ChatGPT. I said, what does this say?
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  Speaker 3: And it gave me these amazing translations of these Renaissance
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: era Latin phrases, which helped me appreciate more What I
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: was seeing.
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  Speaker 1: Were you surprised that they said Epstein didn't kill himself?
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  Speaker 6: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: On this day, St. Bartholomew made clear that Epstein didn't
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  Speaker 3: kill himself. All I'm saying is, man, there are some
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  Speaker 3: pretty bad uses of AI, too.
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  Speaker 1: That was one of them.
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  Speaker 2: Tough one.
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  Speaker 1: So this Obama conspiracy actually launched on Friday when Tulsi Gabbard,
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  Speaker 1: who is for some reason our director of national intelligence,
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  Speaker 1: unspooled a bunch of red string to allege that Obama
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  Speaker 1: and his administration engaged in a, quote, treasonous conspiracy to, quote,
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  Speaker 1: subvert the will of the American people, end quote, by
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  Speaker 1: telling the public that Russia tried to interfere in the
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  Speaker 1: 2016 election by disseminating hacked emails. And they also conducted
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  Speaker 1: an influence campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump.
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  Speaker 1: A conclusion reached by everyone who's ever investigated this for
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  Speaker 1: the last 10 years, including the special prosecutor Trump appointed
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  Speaker 1: and the guy who's currently serving as his secretary of
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  Speaker 1: state and national security advisor, Marco Rubio. But here's Tulsi
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  Speaker 1: Gabbard trying to explain this conspiracy, which she alleges is new,
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  Speaker 1: to Maria Bartiromo on Sunday.
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  Speaker 6: Now, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard revealing what this
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  Speaker 6: audience has known all along. Creating this piece of manufactured
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  Speaker 6: intelligence that claims that Russia had helped Donald Trump get elected.
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  Speaker 6: contradicted every other assessment that had been made previously. So
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  Speaker 6: the effect of what President Obama and his senior national
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  Speaker 6: security team did was subvert the will of the American people,
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  Speaker 6: undermining our democratic republic, and enacting what would be essentially
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  Speaker 6: a years-long coup against President Trump. Accountability, action, prosecution, indictments
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  Speaker 6: for those who are responsible.
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  Speaker 1: Anyone want to... unpack why this allegation is completely fucking insane? Sure.
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  Speaker 3: So I went and looked at the Gabbard, the report
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  Speaker 3: that they put out, and having seen all these stories
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  Speaker 3: about what she's alleging, and what is shocking when you
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  Speaker 3: look at what's actually laid out and what makes it
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  Speaker 3: such a hard story to explain to people is there's
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  Speaker 3: nothing to it. There's nothing to it. What she walks
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  Speaker 3: through in actually pretty good detail is a good process,
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  Speaker 3: a process by which the intelligence community looked at what
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  Speaker 3: happened in the 2016 election and came to the conclusion
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  Speaker 3: that Russia did try to influence the outcome, that it
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  Speaker 3: wasn't just to undermine democracy, but to help Donald Trump win,
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  Speaker 3: that it did this through a mix of covert and
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  Speaker 3: public efforts, but that while it did steal voter registration
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  Speaker 3: information from certain places, it didn't ultimately hack any voting
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  Speaker 3: systems or affect any voting tallies. And the intelligence community
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  Speaker 3: reaches this conclusion and the Obama administration puts that conclusion
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  Speaker 3: forward and actually does something far more responsible than Donald
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  Speaker 3: Trump ever did, which is not say what would have
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: been the most fun and easy political point, which is
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  Speaker 3: actually the election was stolen and Russia stole the election,
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  Speaker 3: but was very careful, right? She lays that out in
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  Speaker 3: great detail, but then claims somehow that because the intelligence
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  Speaker 3: community didn't conclude that the voting systems were hacked. Therefore,
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  Speaker 3: this has all been a conspiracy by Barack Obama to
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  Speaker 3: commit some kind of a coup after the fact, even
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  Speaker 3: though Donald Trump became president. I don't... Like, it doesn't
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  Speaker 3: make any fucking sense.
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  Speaker 2: We all keep having a version of this conversation which
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: is like, am I missing something? Because I just feel
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  Speaker 2: like this doesn't make any sense at all. Like, they're saying... Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: they're releasing new intelligence that shows Russia didn't launch a
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  Speaker 2: cyber attack on our election infrastructure that altered the outcome,
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  Speaker 2: which is... what the Obama administration has said. And they're
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  Speaker 2: trying to make it sound like that's a smoking gun
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  Speaker 2: that proves that the Russians didn't interfere in the 2016 election.
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  Speaker 2: But as you mentioned at the top, we know that
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  Speaker 2: they did in part because the Senate Intelligence Committee, then
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  Speaker 2: led by Marco Rubio, now the Secretary of State, conducted
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  Speaker 2: a three-year investigation that determined Russia waged an aggressive effort
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  Speaker 2: to interfere in our election. They said that Russia didn't
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  Speaker 2: change vote totals, but they probed voter infrastructure in all
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  Speaker 2: 50 states, including voter registration databases, election websites, and they
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  Speaker 2: did a social media campaign to influence public opinion. And
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  Speaker 2: we also know that in 2022, Yevgeny Prigozhin, a now
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  Speaker 2: dead Russian oligarch, because Putin put like a grenade on
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  Speaker 2: his plane or something.
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  Speaker 3: It's like being an Iranian nuclear scientist.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: He confirmed on the record that they interfered. He said, gentlemen,
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  Speaker 2: we have interfered. We are interfering and we will interfere.
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  Speaker 2: And he was indicted in 2018 by the Trump administration.
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  Speaker 2: And Prigozhin was sanctioned in 2018 by the Trump administration.
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  Speaker 2: Was Mnookin, was Stephen Mnookin, the Treasury Secretary at the time,
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  Speaker 2: in on this? It's crazy.
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  Speaker 1: The weird thing is, I feel like a moron even
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  Speaker 1: getting into the details here. But if you read Tulsi's report,
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  Speaker 1: which I encourage everyone to do, The report doesn't refute
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: the idea that Russia interfered with the election. Basically what
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: happens is, so the election happens right after the election.
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  Speaker 1: The intelligence community assesses that Russia was involved in hacking
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  Speaker 1: the DNC and hacking those emails and sending them to
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Wikileaks as a carve out to disseminate the hacked emails, right?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And they also, by the way, they say right after
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: the election, we don't think the election was hacked in
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: any way, right? Being responsible, being incredibly responsible. But then
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: around in December, they're going to have like a briefing
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  Speaker 1: with Obama, right? Where they tell him, okay, well, we
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: don't think Russia hacked the actual election. We've determined this,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: but they have this meeting. And then after the meeting,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, they did conduct these influence operations, right?
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  Speaker 1: Which is the hacking and dumping of the DNC emails
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  Speaker 1: and the social media campaign, which comes a little bit later.
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  Speaker 1: And so then Obama orders an intelligence assessment against to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: figure out how Russia went about conducting this influence campaign.
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  Speaker 1: And this is the January 2017 intelligence community assessment that
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  Speaker 1: this is the basis for Tulsi's whole thesis. She thinks
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  Speaker 1: that this intelligence assessment was made of manipulated intelligence. For
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: some reason we don't know, even though this intelligence assessment
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: was called coherent and well-constructed with no political bias, and
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  Speaker 1: by Marco Rubio and his committee. And then it also
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: said there was specific intelligence reporting confirming that Putin directed
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the operation to help Trump. This is like what Marco
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Rubio found of this intelligence assessment that they're now saying
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: is the basis for the treasonous coup.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Two other points from that Republican assessment of the intelligence
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: committee's findings. In all the interviews of those who drafted
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: and prepared the the Intelligence Committee assessment, the committee heard
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: consistently that analysts were under no politically motivated pressure to
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: reach specific conclusions. All analysts expressed that they were free
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: to debate, object to content, and assess confidence levels as
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: is normal and proper for the analytic process. The other
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: part of this that I think is important is the
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: reason the administration put out this report was not because
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: they were trying to undermine Trump as he becomes president.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: It was because this is an ongoing threat. They were
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: worried about Russia using these tactics, uh, in elections around
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  Speaker 3: the world. They're worried about what would happen in future
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: American elections. They were worried about the fact that yes,
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  Speaker 3: in this case, Russia hadn't, uh, uh, altered vote totals
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: or they didn't find evidence of that, but they did,
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  Speaker 3: as Tommy pointed out, hack a bunch of systems to
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  Speaker 3: get a bunch of information, uh, and voter registration data.
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  Speaker 3: It was dangerous. It's an ongoing threat.
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  Speaker 2: Like if anything, having a review and having a meeting
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: is like literally the bare minimum. If anything, I might
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: argue that Obama didn't do enough to sound the alarm
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: in advance of the election and maybe prevent or like
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: make people more aware of this. But then the election happens.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: They want to assess what's out there. Clearly they're having
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: to talk to confidential sources within the Russian government. That's
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: not like an easy thing, you know, just like lob
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: in a call. So it takes some time. So they
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: created a record of it, both classified and unclassified. And
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: there were tons of interest from Congress. So they had
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: to speak to that too. But like, This is a pattern.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: We've also seen Trump go after the security clearances of,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: you know, officials he doesn't like. They ordered, he ordered
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: DOJ to investigate Christopher Krebs, who is the guy who
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: ran his Trump's cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency during the
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: 2020 election because Krebs said it was secure. So this
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: is just, you know, they're just trying to rewrite history.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I hate making people go back to season one here, but, um,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: You know, the theory that the right and the Trump
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: people have pushed for a long time now is, you know,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: this whole, the Mueller investigation came from the Steele dossier
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: and the Steele dossier was cooked up by the Clintons
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and the DNC and then Obama is now part of
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: it too. If we remember, the Mueller investigation wasn't triggered
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: by the Steele dossier. The Mueller investigation was triggered by
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: George Papadopoulos talking about how Russia had a bunch of
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: emails from Hillary Clinton that it was willing to disseminate
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: for free. to help the Trump campaign. So when you
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: get that intelligence, maybe you launch an investigation. That's how
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the whole thing started.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: The other part of this too is, this is signed
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: off on by every member of the, every Republican and
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Democratic member of the Intelligence Committee at the time, as
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: you said, including Marco Rubio, but also some even more
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: pro-Trump people at the time, who saw not just the
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: public reports that we saw, but a ton of classified
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: material that proved this and made it, obviously these guys
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: would love to throw cold water on this Even at
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the time, they wanted to say that there was no
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: evidence here. They couldn't do it. It was so clear
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: that even the Republicans on the committee had to say
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: this body of evidence supports the substance and judgments of
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: the ICA.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You know what I was hoping for today, guys? I
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: was hoping for one of those Oval Office pool sprays
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: where it's Trump and some poor world leader and then J.D.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Vance is next to him, Marco Rubio is next to him,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and some reporter gets the question to Marco Rubio about this.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, it'll happen.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Because he's already sort of melting into the couch anyway. Like,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: do you think he would have had to just, what
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: would he have had to do? Maybe, or maybe Trump
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: would have had him right there, you know, that's it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: I assume.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: 86ed him right there.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: I do a version of.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: The treason's coming from inside the White House.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: They have spent years attacking this president. They've claimed, you know,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: they have came years claiming that, that his election was illegitimate.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: They refused to say that he was a legitimate president.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: But here we are all these years later and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I noticed J.D. Vance, the chief intellectual of Zamboni, he
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: hasn't had anything on this one. I wonder if he's
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: workshopping his long tweet on this one.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: It's just so dumb. You have four years to figure
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: this shit out, guys. You were in the White House
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: for four years. You could have done this then.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: You appointed your own prosecutor to look at this. He
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: didn't find anything. Anyway, thoughts on the video. How seriously
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: should we take the threat to indict and arrest Obama?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, my first reaction to it was, Jesus Christ,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: he must have just gotten a really bad briefing on
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: all the times he's in the Epstein files. You know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: that is clearly like the genesis of all of this.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Like they have been talking openly about how Trump needs
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to go on offense. They need some chum in the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: water for the right wing. Steve Bannon said as much. But,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: you know, so for Obama himself, like for everyone involved,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: this is actually very scary. Like it's not the AI video.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: It's like the idea that Tulsi Gabbard, she wouldn't say
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: what the crime she's alleging was committed was, but she's
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: saying there's a referral to DOJ, to the FBI. And
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: these things can take on a life of their own,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: especially now in Trump 2.0, because you have Kash Patel
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and Pam Bondi who are just in those jobs because
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: they're Trump sycophants. The FBI and the DOJ have been
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: purged for loyalty of all the kind of people down
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: below them. And so who knows? Who knows what will happen? Like,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's any legal risk for Obama. Clearly
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: no crime was committed. And also the Supreme Court has
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: told us that presidents are kings now and they can
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: do whatever they want if it's an official duty. So
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: he's fine. But for everybody else, like they get swept
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: into an expensive, time-consuming, scary investigation. It sucks.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Mike Davis says no. He says because Obama is covering
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: up a criminal conspiracy that doesn't count. That's what he said.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I don't put anything past them in terms of intent,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: what they want to do or are willing to do.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I just think that in addition to the FBI and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the Justice Department, you need to get a judge to
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: sign off somewhere on warrants, on indictments. You need to
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: have a grand jury doing it. Like, I don't... I
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: think these allegations would be laughed out of every fucking
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: court in the country. I'm not even sure what an
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: indictment would look like, what it would say, what DOJ
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: would argue to a grand jury here. Like, I don't...
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: What I'm more scared about, though, I should say, is
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: when you run around saying that the former president and
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: his staff are guilty of treason or treasonous conspiracy, there's
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: a bunch of fucking violent nutcases out there who I'd
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: be very scared of. General Flynn... today was saying that
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: how the FBI should raid Obama's house and was like
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: talking about the neighborhood in DC where he lives and
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. And I know this is the first time,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: but like, it's that kind of shit that worries me
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: more than the actual legal stuff.
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, these are short-term thinkers, uh, Pam Bondi. That's
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: why she'll say, uh, the list is on my desk
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: and there's no list. Um, they're all kids that ate
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: the marshmallow, you know? Uh, but like, that's a weakness, right?
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: It means that you don't actually ultimately worry that they'll
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: be able to put together anything that would stand up
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: in court, but that's also been their danger. And so
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: you end up in a situation which, just to get
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: to the next day, they put out videos to try
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: to throw chum in the water, but they don't know
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: what the charges are. But then the next day, they
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: know what the charges are, but they can't substantiate it. Oh, well,
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: the next day, yeah, the grand jury signed off, but
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: obviously it'll never pass muster with a judge. And the
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: next day, all of a sudden, the jury is impaneled.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: And maybe this ultimately leads to nothing because there's nothing there.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Even if they did what Tulsi is claiming they did,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: it's not clear to Tommy's point what you'd ever charge
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: people with. But regardless... They didn't. The evidence is pretty clear.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean you can't ruin people's lives. And
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: because they only think one day ahead, they'll deal with
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: the consequences later. That's what worries me about how they've
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: done basically everything over the last six months.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: They view it all as payback.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: That's the other part of it, which is on some level,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump was indicted. He was a president who was indicted.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: That is an ego wound to him. that can't close
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: unless he also figures out some way to go after
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Barack Obama or Joe Biden or their families or Bill
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Clinton or whoever. And that will never stop.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I think from their point of view, they think that
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Trump being indicted was just completely manufactured based on absolutely nothing.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: And that if you could get Trump indicted for absolutely nothing,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of course they can get Obama indicted for absolutely nothing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I think what they're going to find out, just like
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: The EOs banning the law firms and other stuff is
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: some of the stuff they've tried to do is so
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: fucking ridiculous that it has been laughable.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Out of court.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: But this is like the Like over years, right, most
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: of this shit maybe ultimately gets shut down, but enough
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: of it gets through, right?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. That's all. That's the problem. But I'm saying
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: some of their legal cases are stronger. Oh, yes. Yes,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: for sure. So obviously this is Trump's attempt to distract
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: from Epstein, which got kicked up again late last week
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: after the Wall Street Journal published Trump's 2003 birthday note
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to Epstein, complete with a doodle of a naked woman
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: where the president's squiggly signature doubles as pubic hair. Lovely.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Trump has called the whole thing fake, saying, I never
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: wrote a picture in my life.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: What a quote.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I never wrote a picture in my life.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: I never wrote a picture in my life.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: He's now suing Rupert Murdoch's journal for $ 10 billion. That's it?
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: Whatever number.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Such a funny amount.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: $ 10 billion.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Not to be outdone, the New York Times ran two
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: big Epstein stories this weekend. One chronicling Trump's friendship with
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Epstein over the years that includes plenty of creepy details.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And another about the publicly known instances of Trump's name
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: appearing in the legal record of Epstein's crimes. Before we
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: get into it all, love it. You know, we haven't
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: had a chance to talk to you about really any
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: of the Epstein scandal, but especially the wonderful secrets letter.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: How much were you following all this? And what do
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: you think of this whole thing now that you've been
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: able to catch up?
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So a couple of things.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: One. Epstein didn't kill himself.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Epstein did not kill himself. No, but it is amazing.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: how much in every aspect, no matter what the issue is,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump represents the absolute worst of the thing his
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: base claims he's there to fight, right? Whether it's the
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: swamp or corruption, or in this case, the fact that
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: he is more intertwined with Epstein than we even knew before.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: We had seen the pictures and it was always a joke,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: but the amount of detail that has just come out
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: in the last two weeks about Donald Trump's relationship This incredible,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: disgusting and weird letter from Donald Trump in this bound book,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: which they're claiming is fake. The journal knew they'd get sued.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: This thing is completely fucking buttoned up.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And like what?
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Somebody went back in a time machine and stuck it
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: in there? Would they put lemon juice on it in
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: the toaster to make it look old?
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about? I was saying this to
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: love it this morning, but I was like, you can
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: say that the card doesn't sound like Donald Trump, but
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: also- Try to imagine the other scenario where it was
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: completely made up. Who makes up a weird one-act play
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: like that between Trump and Epstein? In the case he
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: becomes president. It's just too weird to have been made up.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: It's not damning enough to have been made up.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Rupert Murdoch doesn't want to deal with this. It's the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: last thing the Murdoch family wants to deal with. They
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: didn't want to publish this. They were so pissed they
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: had to publish this.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: He wants to be on a yacht.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: The other part of it, too, is just the kind
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: of being in a situation where it's like hey, like, yeah,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: this guy was fucking heinous. I want to know whatever
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: documentation the government has. We should get out as much
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: information as possible. But, like, a lot of the people, like,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of it has been reported. We know a
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: lot of information. And a lot of the people that
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: know what happened are alive and around and can be asked. Like,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: The proof isn't in paper. The proof is in the
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: stories told by women and girls about what happened.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: It exists.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Their word matters. It exists in the world. The proof
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: isn't in a government document. The stories are out there
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: and gettable. The other part of it, too, just when
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you see that book of letters, and I guess Trump
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: has a letter in there. Bill Clinton apparently has a
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: letter in there. A bunch of people have letters in there.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: You go back to Acosta, who ultimately became Trump's labor secretary,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: doing this sweetheart deal. for Epstein, or the fact that
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Pam Bondi didn't prosecute him in the years when she
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: was Attorney General of Florida, and many say that she
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: could have, and the fact that even after those pleas
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: that Epstein originally, those pleas to lesser charges that Epstein
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: ultimately made when he was in Florida to get out
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: of federal prosecution, even in the years after, he was
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: still treated as a kind of acceptable person by so
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: many people. And you do see that underneath the conspiracy
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: is a truth, which is that rich people, people who
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: achieve this level of wealth, the wealth itself is seen
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: as validating. That how can this person be unacceptable? They
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: have so much money. They've accessed the boat next to mine.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: They're in the suite next to mine. They're on the
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: island next to mine. They must be legitimate. The money
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: makes it so. But over and over again, we have
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: seen that that money, whether it's Epstein or Bill Cosby
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: or Harvey Weinstein or so many others, that was just
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: not true.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: They were monsters. That's all.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: That's what I had.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: That's what I have on that.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Our bet for most of last week was that
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Trump's name is more likely than not in the Epstein files.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And there's a letter from Dick Durbin's office to Kash
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Patel claiming they were told that huge numbers of FBI
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: personnel were tasked with reviewing the files and flagging any
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: mention of Trump. Tommy, what's your sense of where the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: story is right now? Do you think Trump's base keeps
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: up the pressure and demands more info? Or has the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: journal story and the new Obama conspiracy, you know, reunited
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: MAGA and reminded them of their true enemies?
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: This sort of post-journal story narrative that, aha, maybe this
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: will be good for Trump. It's like, we just spent
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: two weeks talking about this man's connections with the most
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: vile pedophile in public life in America. Like, what the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: fuck are you talking about? Yeah, I like Trump.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: We don't like Trump to stipulate it. But where he's
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: brilliant as a politician is like marketing and media and
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: controlling a narrative and also like The constant feedback loop
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: with his base. And I think on both counts, we've
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: never seen him do a worse job since January 6th,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I would argue. And I've gone from thinking that Epstein
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: was a cynical thing that people like Hash Patel and
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Dan Bongino talked to because it got people mad and
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: got them to click into their shows. And that the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: real conspiracy was what Lovett just talked about. That was
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: like hiding in plain sight to thinking Trump is absolutely
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: covering something up. Because they were friends for two decades.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: They ran in the same social circles, both in New
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: York and Palm Beach. They were photographed together constantly. There's
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: video of them ogling women together. There's testimonials from Epstein's
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: victims about incredibly creepy behavior of like Epstein walking in
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Manhattan with a woman, stopping by Trump's office, acting disgusting
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: around these young women. Trump flew on Epstein's plane. One
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: of Epstein's victims was recruited while working at Mar-a-Lago. There's
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the quote that I feel like I have to read
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: every time we talk about this from New York Magazine
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: in 2002, where Trump said, I've known Jeff for 15 years.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: It's even said that he likes beautiful women as much
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: as I do. And many of them are on the
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: younger side. No doubt about it. The New York Times
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: reported over the weekend that Trump hosted a calendar curl
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: competition in 1992. And the only other guest was Jeffrey Epstein.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: That is the strangest calendar girl competition, but only one
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: other guest trick.
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, it's like insane.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: When you say it out loud, it's insane.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And so like you're seeing these kind of narratives like, oh, well,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: the polling is not moving from his base. And like
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: what I love to see his base running from him
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: in huge numbers, sure. But I think it's far more
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: likely that the people who are disgusted by this are
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: like the first time voters, the low propensity voters, the
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: people that decided to vote for Trump because they heard
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: him on Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan and they thought
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: they'd be their guy who fought the corrupt establishment and
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: now he's covering up for them. Like that is the
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: whole ballgame.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: We've been at this for 10 years, guys. There is
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: no one thing that's going to bring down Trump. And
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: looking at this through that prism is just a mistake anyway.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: But like, is it damaging in some ways? Has he
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: lost the trust of some of the influencers who helped
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: get him elected and maybe some of the voters? Very possible.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: No doubt. Are others back on board?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Will some of them be more skeptical going forward? even
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: if privately, of trusting Trump? Yeah, perhaps. And then there's
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: others who, you know, are just, we're just looking for
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: an excuse to get back on the Trump train because
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: they do hate media and Democrats more and they want
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to be team players. Like that's just how it's going
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: to be.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump is very good at claiming victory and blaming
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: other people for failures. And he is currently the president, right?
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: And so, and he promised things, right? And he promises
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: to deliver things. And Sometimes, like, he can claim he's
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: done it, even if he hasn't. He claims great successes.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Other times, during his first term and after, he was
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: able to blame the deep state or Democrats or what
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: have you, right? But now he's the president again. And
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: he kind of asserted that he was going to make
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: up for all the mistakes or kind of lack of
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: progress during the first time. And now he's got the
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: right team. There's no deep staters in the cabinet now, right?
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: They're all loyalists in the cabinet now. There's no old
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: guard trying to hold him accountable.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Anymore.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: And yet he's not able to deliver for them on this.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: And he doesn't really have an answer as to why.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: That's the problem.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: He can't tell them why. Because it's Pam Bondi at DOJ, right?
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: It's Kash Patel at the FBI. These are the loyalists.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: He did it. He got the team he wanted. he
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: like took over the Republican party and, and like, nobody's
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: getting there. Nobody's getting the, nobody's getting finished.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: There's always a deep state somewhere.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: It's a deeper state.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: It's always deep state.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: It's always a deeper state.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: It's deep states all the way down.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Kind of just like, like double stamp on what you said, John,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: which is according to this Dick Durbin letter, Pam Bondi
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: ordered the FBI to put a thousand personnel on reviewing
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Epstein files 24 seven for like months.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Good thing nothing else is going on.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: The FBI New York field office got sucked into this.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, exactly. Like, We don't talk about the
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: opportunity cost for a thousand FBI analysts working on this.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Like they're not digging into white collar crime or extremes
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: groups or espionage or whatever. Like someday. some shit is
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: going to happen and we are going to learn that
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: people working on that task force or whatever it was
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: will pull off the case to flag Donald Trump's name
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: in a set of files that they then didn't release.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: And then our government will say that that's a fake
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: story and that actually it was the Democrats that did it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Has no one told... Pambandi about control F? I don't
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: understand what the going through the document is. I don't
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: understand that story. I don't understand it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I don't either. Well, I'm sure the FBI will be
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: prompt in their reply to Dick Durbin. Positive America is
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  Speaker 1: slash crooked. All right, let's talk about our president's mission
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: to defend free speech in an age of cancel culture.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: The Justice Department was in court on Monday to defend
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Trump's attempt to terminate $ 2 billion worth of contracts with
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Harvard for scientific and medical research because the White House
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: doesn't care for the political views expressed by the faculty
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and students. It did not go well for the Trump administration.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: The DOJ lawyer tried to argue that the government is
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: simply choosing not to, quote, end quote. But the judge
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: asked what the relationship is between anti-Semitism and cutting off
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: cancer funding. and said, quote, you're saying you can terminate
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: a contract even if the reason you're giving is a
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: violation of the Constitution? I don't think you can justify
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: a contract action based on impermissible suppression of speech. So
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the judge didn't issue a ruling. It sounds like she
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: tipped her hand there. Obviously a long way to go.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Possibly this gets, you know, adjudicated by the Supreme Court
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: at some point. But Do you guys think this will
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: at least stiffen the spines of what Bloomberg News is calling, quote,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: an increasingly vocal group of professors who say Harvard should
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: reach a deal with Trump? And do you at least
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: understand or sympathize with their argument?
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Look, the case was always ludicrous. It goes to what
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: we're talking about. The case is fucking ludicrous. It is
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: such an obvious violation of the First Amendment, not just
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: according to liberal judges, but according to conservative and moderate judges.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: You can't use the money you're giving an institution— as
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: a kind of a cudgel to get people to say
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: things you want them to say or not say things
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: you don't want them to say that have nothing to
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: do with the researcher's hand. Cancer research and student protests
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: have nothing to do with one another. It is brazenly unconstitutional.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: If they settle, they are conceding in some way that
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: there was a case there. That's what will happen. Trump
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: will say he won and then he won't give up.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: There is no justification for settling with Donald Trump.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: You have to fight.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Why do you exist? You've been here for 400, Harvard,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: you've been here for 375 some odd years. You got
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: to stick around and fight. You can't make it through
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: four years of Donald Trump It's ridiculous.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I think what they're worried about and why they
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: asked the judge again to like at least make the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: ruling by September is that's when they have to like
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: reapply for the like there's some of the people the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: professors that are worried are the ones who are like
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: in engineering and medical sciences stuff because they're like we
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: will at some point run out of funding and we
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: won't be able to make the decisions to continue the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: research we're doing. if they just drag this out on
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and on and on and on.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: But, like, if Harvard can't fight this fight, no one can.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: If Harvard can't fill the financial gap with some funds
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: from a gigantic endowment, then no one can. And so
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, guys. This sucks. It's a travesty if this
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: research is cut off. But you guys have to fight
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: this fight. And because, like, you're our nerd champion right now.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: We just need to.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Like, battle for this.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: I hate rooting for Harvard. It stinks.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: They are our nerd champion.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: It stinks.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Well, and I saw, remember there was a story, like,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: a month ago that... You know, they were thinking about
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: making a deal and the Trump administration like went after
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: them again. And some people then were saying like, actually,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Harvard's going to make it. They're going to do a deal,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: but they're going to make it look like they want,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: you know, they want to not Trump. And I'm like,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I just think once you're getting into who's got the
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: biggest megaphone and ability to shape the story of what
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the settlement would look like, like you're losing because Donald
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Trump's going to always win that fight.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: The biggest corporate law firms thought they could do that.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: They thought they could make that deal. Look, no, we
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: actually got one over on Trump. You look like fucking
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: idiots after Columbia makes a deal, right? They think it's
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: a good deal, got the best they could. What does
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Trump say next? I'm going to put you in receivership.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: It'll lie about the deal.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: And then lie about the deal.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: It just lies.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: We're not getting through the Trump era without some pain.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: It's just that's how we have to fight these things.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: There's no, you can't capitulate. If they do, then everybody
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: else will fall next.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. One place that's quite eager to do whatever
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: it takes to make Trump happy, Paramount Global, the parent
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: company of CBS, which desperately wants the no longer independent
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: FCC to approve its merger with Skydance. So when CBS
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: announced the shocking decision that it's canceling the late show
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: with Stephen Colbert in May of next year, people were
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: understandably skeptical of the company's explanation that the decision was
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: purely a financial one and not related to, quote, the
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: show's performance, content, or other matters happening at Paramount. The
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: announcement also came a few days after Colbert said this
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: about Paramount settling Trump's 60 Minutes lawsuit for $ 16 million.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: As someone who has always.
• 35:31
  Speaker 8: Been a proud employee of this network, I am offended.
• 35:34
  Speaker 8: And I don't know if anything will ever repair my
• 35:37
  Speaker 8: trust in this company. But just taking a stab at it,
• 35:40
  Speaker 8: I'd say $ 16 million would help. Now, I believe this
• 35:44
  Speaker 8: kind of complicated financial settlement with a sitting government official
• 35:47
  Speaker 8: has a technical name in legal circles.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: It's Big Fat Bribe.
• 35:50
  Speaker 8: And some of the TV typers out there are blogging
• 35:53
  Speaker 8: that once Skydance gets CBS, the new owner's desire to
• 35:57
  Speaker 8: please Trump could put pressure on late night host and
• 36:00
  Speaker 8: frequent Trump critic, Stephen Colbert.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: But how are they going to put pressure on Stephen
• 36:10
  Speaker 8: Colbert if they can't find him?
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: As for Trump, he posted on Truth Social, I absolutely
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: love that Colbert got fired, adding, I hear Jimmy Kimmel
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: is next. What do you guys think of the cancellation
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and the precedent it's setting?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, we are obviously very biased. Stephen Colbert was
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: unbelievably generous to us. And also, I just think he's
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: like a truly good person in a media landscape where
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: that is Often not the case. And I think, I'm
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: guessing that the worst part about this for him is
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: not just that he's losing his job, it's that the
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: show's going away. Like his team that he loves is
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: all going to lose their jobs. And this is a
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: guy who like paid for them to, kept them on
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: payroll during COVID. Right?
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: So it's like, it's devastating. He's got the best team.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Amazing team. That staff is amazing. They're so talented.
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: And like, look, yes, there's of course some truth to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: the financial arguments CBS is making. Like consumption habits are changing.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Everyone's cutting the cord. They're moving to streaming ad revenues
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: plummeting for these shows, but I'm not pretending like I'm
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: not naive about how tough it is in media right now,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: but the show led the ratings in the time slot.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Like if you wanted to save it, you'd find ways
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: to cut costs. You don't just kill off the show
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: and they just did it. And so I don't believe
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: for a second that it wasn't connected to quotes like
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: what we just heard connected to trying to make Trump happy, uh,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: as this paramount merger with skydance maybe happens. And, uh,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: We can't view this in a vacuum like Facebook caved,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: ABC caved, CBS caved. Our heroes are now Rupert Murdoch's
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: lawyers over News Corp. That's not a good place to be.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What do you think, Levitt?
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: It's very sad. This is, to me, like a signal
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: example of these multiple pressure points. One is from the
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: right kind of undermining and attacking these institutions. One is
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: the business and economics of television disintegrating before our eyes
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: and that is real. And then the other is the
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: fact that like these networks were slowly gobbled up by
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: big corporations because they saw it as a good complimentary business.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: They saw it at prestige play. They saw it as
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: a way to promote other parts of their business. And
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: there weren't a lot of downsides because as much as
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: people talked about the danger of corporate ownership of the media,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: that was long before someone like Donald Trump actually made
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: good use of his power. to kind of put his
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: thumb on mergers and lawsuit threats and all the rest.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: And so now you're in a situation where all these
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: kind of pressures are hitting at the same moment. And
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: so like, Paramount is a $ 30 billion a year company.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: They're saying that the late show is losing $ 30 million.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: $ 30 million is a lot of money. But it is
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: like a tiny amount of money compared to the overall
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: revenue of this corporation. They don't make institutions like The
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Late Show anymore. You don't make a brand like that anymore.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: And so even if you can defend it on business grounds,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: and maybe you can, and even if you can somehow say, well,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: you can't prove that they did it because of the
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Skydance merger, it's still an indictment of a corporation unable
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: to see the long-term value of an institution like this.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: And so it just makes me sad because, look, the
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: world will be fine without a Late Night Show.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of places.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: to get the news, a lot of places to get
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: late night jokes, whatever.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: A lot of places to make fun of Trump, fine,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and you can get away with it. Of course, of course.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: And so, but it is just one more.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Like right here. Right here.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: But it is just one more kind of shared institution crumbling.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: That's what makes me really sad.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: And there are all three of these forces.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: And like, yes, you're right. The streaming has changed things.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Paramount has a streamer.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: The Late Show is huge.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: The guy's the face of the network. He's the face.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: You could figure it out.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: The fact that they chose not to figure it out,
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: I think, lends credence to the fact that this was
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: because you can lose money on something that is valuable
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: to you.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: But you're not going to lose money on something that
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: you view as a pain in the ass. And if
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: you don't have the values or stomach for a fight.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: You'll give up.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I buy all the financial explanations and sort of the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: larger direction of where the industry is going. But I'm
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: willing to believe that the Colbert's politics and the politics
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of the show were like a tiebreaker for Paramount, right?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Which is like, we're losing money on this. But if
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: it was someone who never pissed Trump off, if it
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: was someone who was making the right laugh a lot
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: at something, then maybe they're like, yeah, we'll lose the
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: money and it's not a big deal.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Or look, this thing is down 30 this year. It'll
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: be down 50 next year. We're going to kill it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Do it now.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: It'll help us.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Whatever.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: We have no idea what happens behind it.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: And like, look, I mean, you know. How long is,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: we've already seen ABC settle for the Stephanopoulos thing. How
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: long or is Disney, how much do they care about
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel's show, right? Disney owns that, right? Like what
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: happens with, you know, like you can do this with
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: all of these different shows. And look, it's harder for
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: live shows like this because a lot of the other
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: content on the networks can at least be repurposed for
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: streaming or like there can be like a back catalog
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: of shows that you rewatch. You're not going to rewatch
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: shows live shows. It's another sad indicator that we're just
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: losing the monoculture. It's basically now just sports and Taylor
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Swift is what we're down to. Late night shows were
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: a big part of the one thing that people were
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: watching and coming together on, and now that you don't
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: have that, it just fucking sucks.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: I was reading Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: which is an old book, but incredibly still relevant.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Shockingly relevant.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: But he talks about how sometimes the focus on censorship
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: misses that really the ongoing challenge is noise, right? So
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: it's not, it is wrong that the fact that Trump
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: doesn't like Stephen Colbert would have an impact on our
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: decision Paramount would make. That is wrong and bad and
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: we should call it out and they should be ashamed.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: But the problem isn't the censorship of one show. The
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: problem is the kind of noise that fills in behind.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: And like that to me is what makes this, like
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: it's just a small blow at our collective ability to
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: have places where There's a shared culture, a shared sense
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: of history. The Late Show is an institution. It ties
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: parents and their kids, and it's just another one gone.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: And Stephen Colbert is one of the best entertainers and
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: humans we have in the country. And I just want
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: him to be able to, like, I feel good about
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: his chances. He's going to be fine, but I just
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: really hope he does something else that is like big
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: and entertaining.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he should either run for president or he should
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: launch his own production company and figure out a better
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: version of the show for the digital age.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Because I don't want to see Stephen
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Colbert going away. That's my guess.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think he will.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Two quick things before we go to break. Reminder, Love
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: It or Leave It will be at Just for Laughs
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: in Montreal on Thursday, July 24th. Jesus, you're leaving the
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: country again already?
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I know. I'm out again. I'm going to Canada. I'm
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: scouting out new places to live.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: They're very mad. You should do a field piece about
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: all the ways that U.S. products are being replaced by
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Canadian stuff. There's an app you can download. Oh, really?
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: It's like maple leaf themed.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Don't make fun of them too much up there. No,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: they're great. They're going through some tough stuff.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: They're real pistols.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: Hey, we all have the same.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: We have the same.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Same problems.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: Catherine Cohen, Mary Beth Barone, Zach Zucker, Roy Wood Jr.,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Gianmarco Cerezi. So we have an amazingly packed show at
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: the Just for Laughs Comedy Festival. Go to crooked.com slash events.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: We just put out this full lineup.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: It's called Maple Scan, the Maple Scan app. You need
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: that to know how Canadian a product is.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Okay. Here's what the script says here. It says, Tommy,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: we didn't want you to feel left out. We've got
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: brand new Dodgers-inspired Pod Save the World tees and stickers
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: in the Crooked store now.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Well, now I just feel like I got to pick
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: lacks at recess. This is the worst.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Nothing is about me. John, John, nothing.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: One time I was, uh, one time.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: John, just read the rest of the script and shut
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the fuck up.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Do your job. When, uh, in, I think third grade, uh,
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: we were picking teams for the color war at the
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: end of the year. And, uh, The two, you know,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: the two sports kids were somehow captain, of course.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: It's an old, maybe that wasn't happening. I assume that
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen anymore to children, but maybe they still do
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: allow the kids to rank each other. But we went
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: back and forth and then it was down to me
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: and one other boy whose name I remember, but I'm
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: not going to say, because I don't know what his
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: life is now.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Jeff, Jeff.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: There's Jeff. Yeah.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: So, but we're, but anyway, it's down to the two
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: of us. It's down to the two of us. And
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: he looks over and realizes that he's about to be
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: picked last for a team and just bursts out crying.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: And I was like, why are you crying?
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not crying.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Now you're making me feel bad.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: I felt fine about it.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: I knew I was.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Hey, man, you play the clarinet, Scott. You don't think
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: you were going to be last? I knew I was
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: going to be last.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: What are you, surprised?
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Have you seen yourself?
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Your glasses are an inch thick.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: That hits close to home for me, too.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: I'm a tiny, fat little fag.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to dribble.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, now we're. Anyway, the merch purchases go a
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: long way to supporting what we do here at Crooked,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: which I guess is that. Shop now at crooked.com slash store.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Sweet guy.
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  Speaker 1: five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate
• 46:22
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• 46:25
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• 46:28
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• 46:37
  Speaker 1: All right, as usual, we've got a lot of immigration news.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: In just a minute, you'll hear Lovett's conversation with Lindsay
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Tuzlewski from Immigrant Defenders Law Center, who's been representing Andre Hernandez-Ramiro,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: if you don't remember. Andri is the Venezuelan hairstylist who
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: was kidnapped by the Trump administration and sent to Secot
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: without due process. But after 125 days in captivity, he's free.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Over the weekend, there was a three-country prisoner swap between
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: the Maduro regime in Venezuela and the Trump regime in
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: the U.S. Venezuela released 10 Americans being held there. And
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: in exchange, the Venezuelans like Andri, whom the Trump administration
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: had disappeared to El Salvador, were released from Secot and
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: put on a plane to the country they fled. We'll
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: get into Andre's case in more detail with Lindsay. But
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: how are you guys feeling about the prisoner swap?
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, on a human level, I'm happy that he's
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: out of this hellhole. But the man was fleeing Venezuela
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: because he was persecuted there. I mean, he sought asylum
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: in the U.S. Andre specifically sought asylum in the U.S.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: because of credible threats or what were deemed to be
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: credible threats by, I assume, some immigration official in the U.S.,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: persecution because of his sexual orientation and political beliefs and
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: now he's back in the custody of the venezuelan government
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: and we don't know how they will treat him hopefully
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: maduro thinks okay i'm the best pr for me is
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: being treating these men well but maduro is a fucking
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: idiot and a bad guy and i don't trust him
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: i don't trust bukele and el salvador i don't trust
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: the trump administration and so three authoritarians three awful awful
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: awful governments and so um you know, it's enraging. Like
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: this didn't have to happen. There's newsmen did not have
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: to be sent to Sukkot. It never made sense. It
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. It's a stain on our history. It
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: also shows what a lie it was when the Trump
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: administration was saying, Oh, send them down there. We don't
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: control them anymore. You know, it's government El Salvador now
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: is their custody. We can't control them. That was obviously
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: bullshit when they said they couldn't get Kilmar Abrego Garcia back.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's just, it's, it's horrific.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: But the lies really bug me the most. It's like,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: They lied about them all being Tren de Aragua, lied
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: about the tattoos, lied about their criminal records, lied about
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: whether they were in this country legally, lied to the courts,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: defied the courts, and then sent them to a fucking–
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: To be tortured. A dictator's foreign gulag to be tortured.
• 48:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Lied about that too.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: I mean even– the reports even that Bukele was like, hey,
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: you told me you were sending the worst to the worst.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: He was– And now– so– They've now been sent to Venezuela.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: I talked to Lindsay about it, and she's getting harrowing
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: reports about what André experienced when he was in SICOT.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: He's now a tool of the Maduro regime, and you
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: can hear this in the interview, but she talks about
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: the fact that, he has, as of our conversation, she
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: had not yet been able to make contact with Andre.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Andre had not yet been able to speak with his family,
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: but had been made to sit for a propaganda video
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: on behalf of Maduro to release about his horrible treatment
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: at Seacott. So he is still a pawn for these
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: three governments. And, you know, the Trump administration then says, We,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: as part of this arrangement, which actually is not, we're just,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: it was between El Salvador and Venezuela. We're still not
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: in control of anything, but we have assurances that we
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: can bring anyone back from Venezuela to the U.S. for
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: court proceedings, which is strange because are those criminal proceedings?
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: Are those asylum proceedings? Which means are you now saying
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: you have a deal with Maduro that he'll send someone
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: back to the United States because they need to escape
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: from Maduro, which is just a kind of like, brain bending,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: fucked up situation that maybe even undermines their case for asylum,
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: which I'm not sure would necessarily be lost on any
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: of these people, though who knows. And so it's just
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: this Kafkaesque, ridiculous situation where these people were tortured. And
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: to what we talked about earlier, because they had a
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: fucking idea and then wanted to execute it, didn't think
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: about the consequences, rounded up people at random to hit
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: some artificial deadline and quota, and then lied about it
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: for fucking months.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: And by the way, it's not over in terms of
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: like what the Trump administration is doing with detainees and
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: people that they deport. Like they, you know, they're looking
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: for the go ahead. And so far, the Supreme Court
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: has given it to them to send more people to
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: third party countries, to third countries and not third countries
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: like past administrations did. Third countries like fucking South Sudan
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: and and all kinds of horrible war torn places where
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: they could be tortured like in El Salvador. So it's
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: it's it's still a very, very troubling issue. Also, the
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal has a pretty chilling look at how
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: ICE is rushing to spend the extra $ 45 billion they
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: just got from Congress, which includes what internal documents call hardened,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: soft-sided facilities.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: That euphemism just reminded me why I hated working in
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: government so much.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Like tent camps.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like what they would call, like, they talk about
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: hard landings. Like, no, no, you're talking about crash camps.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Crashing a helicopter.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Hardened soft side tents. Yeah. At military bases and next
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: to existing ICE facilities, they're hoping to get detention capacity
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: up to 100,000 from 40,000. Apparently, this is even causing
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: concern internally because of how vulnerable they are to flooding
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: and high winds. Even worse news, Human Rights Watch put
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: out a report on Monday alleging abuse at three Florida
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: detention centers since Trump reentered office. At one Miami facility,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: people were denied food for hours when the food finally came.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: One detainee said they were forced to eat with their
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: hands shackled behind their backs while kneeling like dogs. Others
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: described getting slapped in the face, retaliation for seeking medical care,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: and crowded cells where detainees routinely have their hands zip-tied
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: and their faces shoved to the floor. DHS spokesperson Tricia
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: McLaughlin reacted to Journal Story by saying that everyone in
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: detention centers like these is there by choice because they
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: chose not to self-deport. So you don't self-deport. You are
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: forced to the ground to kneel with your hands shackled
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: and eat like a dog. A reminder that Trump's immigration
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: policy is becoming more unpopular by the day. The new
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: CNN poll shows 55 percent of people think Trump has
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: gone too far in his deportations. That's 10 points higher
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: than back in February. Fifty seven percent oppose building more
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: detention facilities and 53 percent oppose increasing ISIS budget. Too
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: late for that. A CBS poll from over the weekend
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: basically echoed those same results. Back in June, more people
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: thought Trump was prioritizing dangerous criminals. Now those numbers are flipped.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: So there's been a few stories lately about some Republican
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: politicians starting to push the administration to exempt undocumented immigrants
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: in agriculture and hospitality. We've talked about that a little bit.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Notice just ran a piece about Republicans advocating for immigrants
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: in their districts who've been detained. I think even Chip
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Roy was like, oh, no, I got a guy who's
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: a good guy. He's a legal resident. He's just trying
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: to get legal status. He just got caught up in this.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: We know.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think these stories and poll numbers have
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the potential to move Trump on this issue at all?
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Or is the best we can hope for just trying
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: to keep these stories in the headlines?
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Trump, no. Voters, yes. I mean, the farmer's market Hannah
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: and I go to on the weekends, one of the
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: vendors there is a relative who died during an ice
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: raid because he was trying to escape and he fell
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: off a 30-foot roof and is dead now.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: This is the farm.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it fell 30 feet off the roof of the building. So,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, we knew... Look, obviously, a lot of the
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Sukkot transfer and the sending people to a gulag in
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: El Salvador, that was Stephen Miller and these sickos trying
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: to deter people from coming to the U.S. by scaring
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: them and making them think it would be hell. What
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Trisha's quote tells us is the next step is treating
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: people in U.S. custody so horribly that they give up
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: their asylum cases and just leave, you know, even when
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: they have credible claims. And so I think like a
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: lot of these stories kind of shock the conscience. Like
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: the Republicans seem to think alligator Alcatraz is some big
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: win for them. Kind of think it's just sickening and gross.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: And there are the practical matters of what happens when
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: there's a hurricane. You know, we have a bunch of
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: people in a swamp in a tent. Like, what are
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: you going to do about it? They can just die.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: You know, leave them there. Just on the polling. I mean,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: his approval immigration is down 10 points from March. Almost
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: 60 percent of independents oppose the deportations. 58% oppose the
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: way he's using detention facilities. And then there's just like
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: 70% of the people in that poll say Trump is
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: not focused enough on lowering costs. And I do think
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: part of that is like alligator Alcatraz is the kind
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: of stuff they want to talk about that in tariffs,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: 60% opposed tariffs. Like it's just that there is a
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: bit of a meta thing happening where it just feels
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: like he's focused on the wrong stuff and the underlying
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: economic circumstances are not really improving.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There, I think they're also now suffering from, the
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: administration public relations wise from the fact that there's all
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: these viral videos of people who are clearly not criminals
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: or people who are just like American citizens, legal residents
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: getting swept up in all these raids. And all the
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Trump administration is doing is like putting out their fucking,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: you know, deportation porn videos of the worst of the worst,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: you know, getting arrested. And there's not enough of those
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: because there's not enough dangerous criminals getting arrested to versus
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: all the videos that are circulating on TikTok, on Twitter,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: on everywhere, and on people's local news stations, too, about
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: all these people getting swept up who are in their
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: community who they know are legal residents or people who've
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: been here for decades. Yeah.
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: The other part of this, too, is so they're ramping
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: up the construction of these facilities. They are firing immigration judges.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: As we know, Trump stopped a bill that would have
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: increased the number of immigration judges to help deal with
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: the backlog. And so they're not only putting people in
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: these terrible circumstances, they're trying to build a system where
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: the strain becomes, they can weaponize the strain on the
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: system so that people are held for weeks, even if
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: it's unjustly, right? Where a lawyer can't find where their
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: clients are because it was done in such a rapid
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: way and there are so many cases. And so like
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: that is part of this. They're trying to weaponize the
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: strain they're putting on the system. Yeah. The, the, like, oh,
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: we're gonna exempt hospitality. Oh, we'll exempt farm workers. Trump
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: can move on this because he did. He got the
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: call and he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not supposed
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: to go after, we're not trying to shut down the farms. Whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: that's not, this is about the hardened criminals. These people
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: have been here for a long time. And then of course,
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: so that comes- They get slapped on the wrist by
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: Stephen Miller. By Stephen Miller, and then all of a sudden,
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: everything is back on. He is responsive to pressure on this.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: These are all, you know, deporting a bunch of people
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: that work in agriculture, work in construction, work in hospitality,
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: that will cause jobs to not be done, costs to
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: go up, businesses to suffer, the economy to suffer. That
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: will have consequences. Donald Trump is allergic to those consequences.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: He is aware of the pressure he's under to deliver
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: on some of these, on prices. He can lie about it.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: He can claim he's doing it. He can blame Joe
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: Biden all he wants, but ultimately he will be held
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: So I do think he is he is like kind
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: of beholden to pressure on these issues. But at the
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: same time, like, you know, there's Stephen Miller waiting in
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: the wings to walk it back.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: And despite the fact that this administration is filled with
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: some of the biggest buffoons you'll ever meet. Stephen Miller
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: is quite smart and knows exactly what he's doing and
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: has been spending a couple of years trying to learn
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: from his mistakes in the first term and mistakes being
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: they didn't deport enough people. And so, yeah. And so
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: when like the agriculture secretary or, you know, Joe Rogan
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: in a dinner with Trump is like, hey, exempt the
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: hospitality workers. That's fine in the moment. But Stephen Miller
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: is going to like come in later and figure out
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: how to get what he wants.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: So I think that's the question, right? Yes, I totally
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: agree with that. But like this is the beginning. They
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: are right now starting to ramp up deportations at the
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: exact moment the country is turning on this precise policy
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: and when the economic consequences will make worse his biggest
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: political liability. And so, yes, you know, the ag secretary calls, says,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: I'm hearing from all these businesses, you got to do something.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Trump sends out a post. Stephen Miller walks it back.
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: Stephen Miller and Noam can go meet with the ICE people, whatever.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: But eventually, like at some point, right, like that pressure
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: starts to maybe out, That wave can crest and cover
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Stephen Miller, too.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Only if it goes to Trump directly, though. I think
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: that is the interesting part, which is that, like, he
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: is clearly, like, the lead staffer out of all of them.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: And so, like, if the Ag Secretary is, like, going
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: through him to get to Trump to try to make
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: his case, I'm sure Stephen Miller's like, yeah, we'll get
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: back to you on that, you know.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If Trump starts seeing footage on television of, like,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: people being really upset about this. Bad PR.
• 59:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, right.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Bad PR he doesn't like. So that's a key. Okay.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Lovett's interview with Lindsay Toslowski of
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: the Immigrant Defenders Law Center. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace.
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  Speaker 3: Joining us now is Lindsay Teslowski, attorney at the Immigrant
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: Defenders Law Center, which represents Andre Romero, among others who
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: were kidnapped by the Trump administration. We now know Andre
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: was among the hostages who were freed from Sakant in
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: El Salvador and sent to Venezuela. Lindsay, the last time
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: we spoke, the Trump administration had refused to even provide
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: proof of life. That's where we were up until Friday.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: I know you were not informed that Andre was part
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: of this exchange, but we're able to ID him from
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: photographs of Andre coming off the plane based on his tattoos,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: the same tattoos for which he was seemingly kidnapped. Uh,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: But what have you learned about Andre's circumstances since the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: transfer Friday? And how are you feeling?
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: So, yeah, a lot has happened even just in the
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: last few minutes.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: We learned of his return.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: To Venezuela through media reports and then saw him disembarking
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: that plane. Since then, we have not been able to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: speak with him. I know his family has briefly heard
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: from him in a quick phone call, letting them know
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: that he should be released either later today or tomorrow.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: And then in the.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: Last few minutes, I was sent a video from Venezuelan
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: state TV that has Andri doing a testimonial on camera.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: And I will just say that, you know, some of
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: what he describes as what happened to him in El
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: Salvador is absolutely horrific. describing torture and sexual abuse. But
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: what is also horrific is that he hasn't spoken to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: his lawyers yet. He hasn't been able to reunite with
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: his family yet. And the authoritarian regime that he was
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 5: returned to has him making a video speaking about extremely
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: sensitive and horrible things that have happened to him while
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: in custody in El Salvador before he's had a chance
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: to even comprehend what has happened to him. And it's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: just an ongoing, it's the reason that we were fighting
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 5: for him not to be returned to Venezuela. We, of course,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 5: are glad that he is out of that torture hellhole
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: in El Salvador. But, you know, his safety and his
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: freedom is still very questionable. So we haven't spoken to him,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: so I can't say too much. But What has happened
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: is really just another chapter in this ongoing travesty of justice.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: So you now have Andrei in the custody of the
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: Maduro regime due to a deal between Trump, Bukele, and Maduro.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: The exchange agreement, at least publicly, seems to allow for
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Venezuelans to come back to the U.S. if ordered by
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: a court and That's of course deeply strange because in
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: some cases it would be ordered by a court for
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: asylum proceedings due to fears of the Maduro regime, which
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: is now saying it wouldn't stand in the way of
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: that kind of a transfer. There's a lot of contradictions
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: inside of this. How do you even begin to figure
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: out how to represent your client in this moment? What
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: are you trying to figure out? What are your questions?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, our number one question when we are
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: for the first time in 128 days able to speak
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: with Andri is what does he want now and what
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: is possible? Because while the Maduro regime may have agreed
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: that part of this exchange, if that is even true,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: we don't know.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: We haven't seen any of this.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: But if they did agree that if a court orders
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: that some of these men can come back to the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: United States, that they will let them go. We have
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: no idea whether that is actually true, whether the Maduro
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: regime would allow that. And we have no idea whether
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: Andri would want to come back to a place that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: sent him to four months of torture in El Salvador.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: So there are a lot of questions.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 5: Once we are able to speak with him, we're going
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: to start with, for the first time, being able to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: ask him, what do you want and how can we
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: help you get what you want? Because for 128 days,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: he has been incommunicado. We have no idea what he
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: wants to do at this point. And, you know, we're
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: really going to start there. But in terms of legally,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 5: this situation is beyond an uncharted territory. There has been
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: an agreement between essentially, you know, three strongmen who have
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: come up with a prisoner swap that involved our client
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 5: that he did not consent to, we're assuming, that has
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 5: landed him back in the place where he fled from initially.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: He fled Venezuela back in 2024 because of persecution that
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: he suffered at the hands of the Maduro regime because
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 5: of his sexual orientation and because of his political beliefs.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: He came to the United States to seek protection. He
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: was denied due process. He was not given a day
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 5: in court to make his asylum claim. And he was
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 5: essentially sent back to the very place he fled with
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: a stopover to be tortured for four.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: Months in El Salvador.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 5: This is just beyond a travesty of justice at this point.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: It's something that as the facts come out, I think
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 5: will be a shame on our asylum system, on our government.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 5: And what happened to him in El Salvador and what
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: happens to him next falls squarely at the feet of
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: President Trump and Secretary Noem for everything that they had
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 5: to do with sending him back there.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: Is there any more that you can tell us about
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: what you've just seen from Andre?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: You need to be careful about even accepting it at
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: face value because it is coming via Maduro's regime. But
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: what have you learned about Andre's treatment? What have you
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: learned about his current condition and mental health?
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: What I can say about the video that I saw,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: which was on Venezuelan state TV, it's essentially a propaganda video.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: But Andri does confirm our worst fears, which is that
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: he was tortured in El Salvador, that he was sexually
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: abused in El Salvador. And, you know, in terms of
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: his mental health, I can say that he does not
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: look well in that video. And It's clear that the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: Maduro regime prioritized not reuniting him with his mother, not
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 5: allowing him to speak to his lawyers that have been
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 5: vocally advocating for him nationally and internationally for four months.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: But they prioritized making that video, which I cannot imagine
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: would be in the best interest of anybody who has
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: just gone through what has to be one of the
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: most traumatizing experiences I could ever imagine.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: Why do you think this exchange happened at all? How
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: much do you think the Trump administration felt like this
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: had become both a political problem and a consuming legal problem?
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: I think it's because of the pressure that all three governments, frankly,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: were probably feeling. The Trump administration, because we were able
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: to lay bare what they did. They sent innocent men
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: with no due process to a place that is notorious
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: for torture. They sent them to a gulag in El
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: Salvador without giving them their day in court. And even
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 5: the courts here in the United States recognize that their
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: due process was violated when that happened. Their human rights
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: have been violated, we now know, by these stories of
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: torture that are coming out. So I think the Trump
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: administration was feeling that pressure. I think the Bukele administration
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: was feeling pressure to be rid of this problem because
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 5: they probably initially were told that they were receiving people
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: who were members of Tren de Aragua and assumed that
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: they would be able to sell that to the Salvadoran
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 5: public as a furtherance of their strongman policies. But ultimately,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: by Andri's story and by so many other stories that
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: came out, that many of these men had absolutely no
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 5: criminal history, the vast majority of them, that they were
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: not given their day in court, that no court ever
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: said they were members of Tren de Aragua. As that
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 5: became clear, I think this was a problem for certainly
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 5: President Trump and President Bukele. And, you know, of course,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: being an authoritarian regime, the Maduro government is going to
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: use this to further their, you know, his personal ambitions
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: to further the fact that he can play the hero
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: in this story. But the fact is that many of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 5: these men were in the middle of seeking asylum, fleeing
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: the very country they were just returned to.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Is there hope?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Like a dark hope that this attention, the fact that
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: they view Andre and others as politically useful as part
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: of a kind of propaganda effort, that that will afford
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: some protection?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 5: There's definitely a hope that the millions of people that
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: have come to know Andre's story, who are continuing to
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: follow it. We have received so many inquiries from around
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 5: the world about his well-being just since Friday, since he
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: disembarked from that plane. We hope that the continued pressure
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 5: for his safety and for justice for Andre will provide
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 5: some mechanism to keep him safe. And we will continue
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 5: to fight for justice for Andre because being returned to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: the place that you fled initially with no due process
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: is not justice. And we committed to fight for justice
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: from the moment we took his case.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: And we will continue to.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: Fight for justice for him. for our seven other clients
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: who also were returned to El Salvador, and for all
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: of the men who were put through this absolutely horrific
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: experience that really is a shame on our government, on
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: our ability to help people who are seeking protection.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: 404 reported last week that there were dozens of people
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: on those flights to Seekonk that were not included in
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: the list of names put out by DHS. What was
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: your reaction to that report, and how does it comport
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: with your experience in representing these men?
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 5: Our experience in representing these men has been chaotic. In
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: the immigration courts where we are representing them, their cases
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: have gone into all different sorts of postures. It seemed
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 5: at times that ICE wasn't even able to confirm that
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: some of our clients were in El Salvador.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: To this day.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: They never would admit in court where they went when
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: they left ICE custody. We had other cases like Andres,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: where they admitted right away that he was in El
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 5: Salvador and then moved to dismiss his case, saying he
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 5: was no longer in the United States. And we even
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: had a case where a judge removed someone because they
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: were not present in court, ordered them deported, knowing that
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: they had been sent to El Salvador. The 404 report
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: and all of these people who we didn't even know
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: were there furthers our knowledge that this was a chaotic operation.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: That this was not taken by.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 5: The Trump administration in the way that you would expect
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 5: something that has human beings' lives hanging in the balance
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: to be taken.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: It was done rashly.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: There was not a legal basis to invoke the Alien
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: Enemies Act, and certainly not, you know, one, because we
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: are in a peacetime, so it's not a lawful use
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: of the Alien Enemies Act, but also because none of
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 5: these men it appears, were members.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: Of Tren de Aragua to begin with.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 5: So, you know, to me, it just shows how much
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: chaos is happening within ICE and that due process and
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: fundamental fairness is something that the Trump administration sees as
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: an impediment to their plans for mass deportation. And unfortunately,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 5: people like Andri and stories that we may never know
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: of others who were in the same predicament are examples
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 5: of that.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: So you have the Wall Street Journal reporting that temporary
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: detention facilities are being ramped up by ICE because it's
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: just received all this money. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: firing immigration judges. Trump stood in the way of a
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: bill that would have increased the number of judges to
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: help with the backlog they claim to want to resolve.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: They are weaponizing the strain they're putting on the system.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: They are trying to overwhelm the system. What does that
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: mean for how you need to represent clients? What does
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: that mean for getting people due process or even finding
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: out what happened to people?
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: Well, I can add a few other examples to that
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: list that you just said. One of them is that
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: we have started receiving cases that we had closed in
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 5: 2009 and 2010 are being recalendared in the immigration courts.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: So these are cases that were dismissed by the government
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: as not priorities for prosecution over a decade ago.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: And the Trump administration is.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: Recalendaring them, which to me indicates that not only do
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: they not care about the backlog because they are firing
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: immigration judges, but they are trying to add to it.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: They are trying to break the system. They are trying
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: to make it so that it is impossible to give
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: people due process. As deportation defense lawyers, we will continue
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: to show up in court. We will continue to file
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 5: habeas motions to get these cases out of the immigration courts,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 5: which are not truly independent, and into federal court so
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 5: that we can make sure we get justice for our clients.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 5: Another example of this is arresting people who are coming
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: and showing up for their immigration court hearings. People who
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: are already in proceedings, people who have already filed for asylum,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: people who are waiting for that case to be adjudicated
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: in court, are being arrested and put into expedited removal,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: which is essentially a way to remove them from the
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 5: United States with little to no due process at all.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 5: The Trump administration, over and over in all of these examples,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 5: finds giving people the ability to be heard in court,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: which is not just something that we do to be nice,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 5: but is a fundamental constitutional right. they find that inconvenient
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 5: and they are looking for ways, whether it's firing judges,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 5: whether it's, you know, making the system so backlogged that
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 5: it can't possibly work to deny people that due process
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 5: right across the board. And, you know, as lawyers, it's
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 5: why we are filing lawsuits. We have a lawsuit around
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: the LA raids here in collaboration with many partners that
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 5: is really saying, we will hold you accountable. If you
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: violate people's constitutional rights, as way of your plans for
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 5: mass deportation, we will hold you accountable and we will
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 5: make sure that we see you in court. And we're
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: going to continue to do that in immigration courts and
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 5: federal courts because the level of unlawfulness by the Trump
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 5: administration as they try and carry out these plans is stunning.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 5: And it should be something that does not just impact
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 5: immigrant communities. It shouldn't just be something that strikes fear
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: in our communities here in Los Angeles. It should be
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: something that every single American is worried about. Because if
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: they can do this here, if they can do something
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: like this here, they can violate the constitutional rights of
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: all of us across the country, and everyone should be worried.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: So public opinion to that point has turned on the
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: Trump administration's crackdown, just as it's now ramping up. What
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: would you like to see our audience do to help
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: to support what you're doing, to be helpful just in
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: their community's whether it's through raising awareness or actually trying
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: to get involved in preventing raids and all these other actions?
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 5: Well, I think it's really important that people understand their
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: rights to document what is happening in their own communities.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 5: We've seen a lot of this in Los Angeles where
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 5: people are actually recording when ICE goes out and conducts raids.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: That is vitally important.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 5: That actually can become evidence in lawsuits where we show
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 5: Here in Los Angeles, we have been able to get
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 5: a temporary restraining order because we were able to show
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: rampant racial profiling happening when they would go into Home
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 5: Depot parking lots and literally just sweep up every single
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 5: person who was brown, people who were speaking Spanish. That
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: is an absolute example of racial profiling. And some of
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 5: the information that we have from those lawsuits comes, yes,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 5: from the people who are arrested, but also from the
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: bystanders who stand by witness to what is going on.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: We also remind.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 5: People that recording is legal and you should do it
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 5: from a safe distance. There are lots of mutual aid
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 5: organizations that are helping and organizing people to do this
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 5: in their communities. We're part of the LA Raids Rapid
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 5: Response Network that does this work. And we rely on
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 5: volunteers to help us to go out when we receive
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 5: calls that there is ICE enforcement activity happening. they can
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: go out and respond to that. So people should certainly
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: be getting involved with those efforts in their communities and
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 5: also supporting legal defense organizations around the country. You know,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 5: immigrant offenders, we operate here in Southern California, but there
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: are many amazing organizations across the country that do this
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 5: same work. It's so important to support these organizations, support
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: bond funds so that we can get people out of
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 5: ICE prisons.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: And back with their families.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 5: And really, once we're able to get people out of
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: ICE prisons and they're fighting their case from the community,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 5: they have a much better chance of finding representation and
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: also of being able to be successful in their case.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: So I would say all of those things and, you know,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 5: really talking about these stories. Andri's story particularly touched the
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 5: hearts of so many people because they could see themselves
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 5: in him. They knew that if it could happen to Andri,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: it could happen to any of us. There are so
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 5: many stories like that. follow organizations that are sharing these
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 5: stories on social media and share them because shining a
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 5: light on the injustice is going to help us to
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 5: fight back. It's going to inspire others in your communities
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 5: to do the same. And it's just so important for
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 5: us to lift up those stories of our neighbors, our friends,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: our families who are being directly impacted.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: And I do think it's fair to say that the
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: attention on Andre and others who have been so, uh,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: mistreated has been part of why public opinion has turned. Lindsay,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: I know this is still a ongoing and harrowing situation
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: for Andre. And it sounds like you're just beginning to
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: learn just how much he's been through, but I just
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: want to say thank you for everything that you've done,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: because if people hadn't paid attention, there'd be no reason
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: for this exchange to have happened. And these people could
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: have been lost forever. Um, and, uh, I hope it's
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: heartening when Andre ultimately learns how many people were fighting
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: to make sure that he got free. And, you know,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: he is right now yet to learn how much attention
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: his case has gotten. And so I know he might
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: have a long road ahead, but he's only in a
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: better circumstance is still a dangerous one because of you
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: and Immigrant Defenders and all the others. So thank you
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: so much. And keep us posted. And we'll try to
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: keep in contact about about Andre's case.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: And so many others. Thank you, Lindsay.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: All right. Last thing before we go, we're recording this
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: on Monday, July 21st, the one year anniversary of Joe
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Biden dropping out of the presidential race. Happy anniversary, guys. Thanks.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: Seems like there are still some feelings out there, people
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: working through some feelings. Here's a selection from a three
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: hour interview with The Internet Outlet Channel 5 conducted with
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Hunter Biden.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 7: You know what George Clooney did? Because he sat down,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 7: I guess, because he was like given a blessing by
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 7: the Obama team or the Obama people and whoever else
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 7: and David Axelrod and whoever the fuck else is to go, OK, yeah,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 7: you know what?
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to we are.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 7: Going to insert our. judgment over yours. We, me, and
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 7: James Carville, who hasn't run a race in 40 fucking years,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 7: and David Axelrod, who had one success in his political life,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 7: and that was Barack Obama, and that was because of
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 7: Barack Obama, not because of fucking David Axelrod, and David Plouffe,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 7: and all of these guys, and the Pod Save America guys,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 7: who were junior fucking speechwriters on Barack Obama's Senate staff,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 7: who have been dining out on the relationship with him
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 7: for years.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: First of all, that's insulting. John, you were chief speechwriter.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: I was chief speechwriter. I was the only one in
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: the Senate office.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: And imagine, it must be just so hard for Hunter
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: Biden to watch all these people dining out on somebody's name.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: It's rough.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: It's tough.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: Tommy, you listened. To all three hours. What'd you, what'd
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: you find?
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I listened to all three hours. I don't know
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: why I did that. Um, I have a lot of
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: feelings about it in part because I had, I interviewed
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: Hunter on this show and I think 2021 about his book.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: And I, you know, I kind of feel like I
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: got duped now. Like I've, I've a lot of empathy
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: for anyone who's, who's dealt with addiction issues. Um, but
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: let's just go to starting with this interview. Like I
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: get why he's mad. If my dad went through that,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: I'd be mad too. He gets to air his grievances
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: when he wants. He found a very credulous partner. to
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: give him three hours. The guy literally says to him
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: at one point, I'm on your team. That's a quote.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: And at one point the guy also says nothing wrong
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: with making some money here and there when they're talking
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: about his business dealings. Like Hunter's also right.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: Speaking of dining out.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's, there's not enough, like one interesting point Hunter makes,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: there is not enough scrutiny of like the origins of
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: the laptop story. Like this laptop gets to this technician
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: to Rudy Giuliani and someone kind of questions that, right.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Some fair points.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: But mostly, yeah, I guess.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, sure.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: I know, I know. But mostly it is three hours
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: of Hunter playing the victim and he like rages at
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: us and he rages at Axelrod and Clooney. But the
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: problem was the voters.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: And they never addressed that.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: That's all I wanted to say.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: The voters thought Joe Biden was too old. And when
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: it comes to the attacks on Hunter himself, like, okay,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: let's just, what if we just stipulate for the hypothetical, like, yes, okay,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: all your business dealings were above board and legal. All
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: your paintings were purchased by art lovers who loved the
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: product and didn't know your name. Trump is worse. You
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: were on the board of Burisma because of who your
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: dad is. And that is what people hate about Washington.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: And it was part of the problem. And like, there's
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: some other weird shit. Like he said, he did blames
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: the debate on his, the Biden staff saying they gave
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: him Ambien on his foreign trip. But like Biden got
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: back from the G7 on June 14th, the debate with
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: June 27th.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: A lot of fucking Ambien. If Ambien was the issue,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's Ambien. It's age.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: Also, it's like he was tired, so they gave him Ambien? Also,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: just allow me to rant one more second. His big
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: beef is that Republicans stick together and Democrats are united.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: But he's obsessed with this show, obsessed with George Clooney.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: They don't talk about Gaza until two hours and 50
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: minutes into the interview. I'm guessing that that was the
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: bigger threat to party unity than a George Clooney op-ed.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: It's just this sense of entitlement that like from Biden,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: from his family, from the inner circle that he was
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: like owed the presidency, owed a second term. It's just
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: very fucking grating.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: The whole premise of 2024 was, yes, voters are saying
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: that Joe Biden's age is his biggest liability. But but
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: don't worry, because Joe Biden's the closer. And when you
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: see him campaign, he's going to put those worries to rest.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: He had a good State of the Union campaign. And
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: then he had the worst debate any of us had
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: ever seen, and it became insurmountable. And so at long last,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: the Democrat.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: He didn't put the concerns to rest, he put his
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: campaign to rest.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: Right, and at long last, the Democratic establishment decided to
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: listen to the voters. And it was very hard to
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: get the establishment to do that, but ultimately they did that.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: And everybody kind of collectively, ultimately were able to get
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden to step aside and do the right thing
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: for the country. Now, we don't live in the world
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: where Joe Biden- ran that race all the way to
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: the end. But one thing we know is that Hunter Biden,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: throughout Joe Biden's presidency, was a terrible liability for him.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: And put the addiction aside, it is because he was
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: on Burisma, because he became an artist, because he was
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: part of a kind of sleazy Washington that, as Tommy said,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 3: people hated. You were a liability. You should be ashamed
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: of the ways in which you made your father's political
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: life worse than And, like, the idea that we're going
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: to listen to you now, like, give me a fucking break.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: My reaction was, first of all, I wish you all
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: the best, Hunter. Like, forget about it.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: I like the art.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: I like the art.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: I think the art had a lot of pathos.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, attack us, attack George Clinton, I don't
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: fucking care. But, like, listening to Hunter Biden interview post-election,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: especially the Hunter Biden one, but also Jill Biden, also
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Mike Donilon, when I think that these are basically the
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: only people by the end who Joe Biden was listening to,
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: you're like, no wonder he didn't fucking drop out. He
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: wasn't getting, we know now that there were a whole
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: bunch of pollsters who their information was not getting to
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden. And because Mike Donilon wasn't letting it get in.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: There's a whole staff that was working for Joe Biden,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: some of their whole lives. And they were kind of
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: shut out too. The only people in the circle at
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: the end was the family, was Hunter, this person in
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: the interview, and Jill and Mike Donilon, who just had
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: this faith that Joe Biden was going to win the
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: election that wasn't based on any kind of measurement or
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: data at all. Like the New York Times poll in February,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: 61% of Biden 2020 voters said he was too old
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: to be effective. And that concern cut across generations, gender, race, education.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Hunter does a whole thing in here about like, you know,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: we didn't know what the black voters of South Carolina.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: It was everyone who thought he was too fucking old.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: 20% of Biden 2020 voters in that poll said he
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: was no longer capable of handling the job. This 20%
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: of his own voters in a poll in February on
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: the eve of the debate, 86% of Americans said Biden's
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: age was a major or moderate concern. That was before
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: the debate, 86%. And then Trump had a slight lead
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: heading into the debate. He had a slight lead into
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: the battleground debates was like, what are you? I just, it's,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: I just don't like the, the rewriting history. And I
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: hate fucking getting back into this and, relitigating and doing
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: the fight and dragging it out. But, you know, Hunter's
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: on a fucking tour right now. And just going forward,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: I think the lesson to learn is because hopefully we're
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: not going to have an 80 something year old geriatric
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: candidate again. But going forward, the lesson is like, look,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: you just can't listen to your small little circle, have
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: a bubble and then like be impervious to any fucking
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: outside criticism or data that is saying otherwise. Forget about Washington.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: Forget about the pundits. Listen to the fucking voters.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: Also, just on the age thing, they're talking about it,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: and Hunter talks about the debate performance, and he says
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: that we need to grapple as a society with, quote,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: how we handle people that age in front of our
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: eyes and recognize that they may have lost a physical step,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: but that does not mean that they don't have the
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: mental capacity to do their job. We're not talking about
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: whether a loved one can live alone anymore. We're talking
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: about running the country. What are you talking about, man?
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: What about the capacity? to communicate what you're going to
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: do as president?
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: Also, just seeing this today, I guess what I wanted,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: if I was in a room with him and able
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: to talk rationally, I'd just be like, hey, man, look
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: around the world. Look at what's happening in this country
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: right now. I know you're angry personally, but you're not
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: the fucking victim here. We're all living with what happened
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: in this election.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: You got a pardon. You're fine.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: It's just utter lack of self-awareness.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: It's the shamelessness that really gets you in the end.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I saw one quote he said. We all talk
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: about the incredible popularity of Barack Obama. Barack Obama never
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: got more than 69 million votes. My dad got 81
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: million votes. Like, dude, now you sound like fucking Donald Trump.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: who can't figure out that as the years go on,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: the population increases and more people vote in.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: A high turnout election.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: Well, like, come on, man. You sound like Trump.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: George Clooney's not an actor. The low-rated Jake Towers. It's
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: amazing to watch people become the thing that they claim
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: to be the savior from.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: It's wild. It's wild. Maybe that's the last time we
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: hear from the Biden family on the election. Fingers crossed.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: For a while.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe just not during the, like, worst two-week news cycle
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: of Trump's administration either.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it's important to get into the Epstein cycle. You
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: want to pop your head up at the opportune time.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: Here's some good news. Stephen Colbert doesn't have to figure
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: out how to do an interview with Joe Biden about
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: his book in a year and a half.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: Stephen Colbert has 10 months to do whatever the fuck
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: he wants.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: I know. I hope he doesn't.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, if it was real political pressure, they
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: maybe would have yanked him, but he's got 10 months.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: And he's free.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: He should fucking use it. Yeah, I bet he will.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: I bet he will.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: That's exciting.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: All right, that's our show for today. Thanks to Lindsay
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Toslowski for coming on and to everyone at IMDEF for
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: the incredible work they do. If you want to donate,
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: highly recommend it. They do fantastic work for immigrants, heroic work.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: So go donate if you can to the Immigrant Defenders
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: Law Center. Dan and I will be back with a
• 1:30:35
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