Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal reacts to Rob Thomson firing news & reviews front offices of Red Sox, Mets, & Phillies

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Ken Rosenthal reacts to Rob Thomson firing news & reviews front offices of Red Sox, Mets, & Phillies · Foul Territory

0:05
Speaker 1: Let's hit the inside Scoop with FT senior insider Ken
0:07
Speaker 1: Rosenthal joining us on foul Territory right now. Well, Ken,
0:10
Speaker 1: what do you think about all of the action today?
0:13
Speaker 1: Rob Thompson let go, and the conversations with Alex Korus
0:17
Speaker 1: sounded like they got a little bit heavy, but he declined,
0:20
Speaker 1: is that what happened?
0:22
Speaker 2: That is what happened. And I can't say I'm surprised
0:25
Speaker 2: that Rob Thompson was dismissed. I heard Eric saying that
0:27
Speaker 2: this has been talked about for two weeks, not necessarily
0:30
Speaker 2: by the Phillies, but by people like myself, and you
0:33
Speaker 2: could read the writing on the wall. Dave Dombrowski brought
0:36
Speaker 2: in three of his top advisors to Atlanta last weekend.
0:40
Speaker 2: They were in the clubhouse, they were asking questions, they
0:42
Speaker 2: were talking to people evaluating. You could see this coming,
0:46
Speaker 2: and they were incredibly disappointing, at least to start the season.
0:50
Speaker 2: There's a lot of season left, and Dave Dombrowski is
0:54
Speaker 2: and has been in his career, a man of action,
0:57
Speaker 2: so that part of it did not surprise me. It
1:00
Speaker 2: also did not surprise me that the Phillies went on
1:04
Speaker 2: this intense pursuit of Alex Cora. And we know the
1:08
Speaker 2: connection between Cora and Dombrowski. It goes to the twenty
1:13
Speaker 2: eighteen World Series champions in Boston. These two guys won
1:17
Speaker 2: a World Series together. That alone creates an incredible bond,
1:22
Speaker 2: and beyond that, Cora and Dombrowski are just close in general,
1:26
Speaker 2: so it almost seemed logical that this pursuit would happen.
1:31
Speaker 2: It didn't result in Korra taking the job, in part
1:35
Speaker 2: large part because he wanted to stay home with his
1:37
Speaker 2: family this summer in Puerto Rico, and also because he knew,
1:42
Speaker 2: according to a person who spoken to him, that the
1:46
Speaker 2: Phillies would not be getting the best version of him
1:48
Speaker 2: if he jumped right back in after getting fired less
1:52
Speaker 2: than a week ago by the Red Sox. So it
1:55
Speaker 2: didn't work out for now. But Don Manningly is an
1:59
Speaker 2: interim chol He is not expected to be the long
2:02
Speaker 2: term choice of the Philadelphia Phillies, so from that perspective,
2:07
Speaker 2: this can all rear its head again at the end
2:10
Speaker 2: of the season once, of course, the Phillies want to
2:13
Speaker 2: hire a more permanent manager. Now there are other teams,
2:17
Speaker 2: of course that might want a manager. Then, as well,
2:20
Speaker 2: so there could be competition for Alex Korra, even as
2:23
Speaker 2: he remains under contract to the Boston Red Sox.
2:27
Speaker 3: Ken, why would I Ox scorer want to jump from
2:29
Speaker 3: a last place team to a last place team. I mean,
2:31
Speaker 3: I know it's in the middle of it. Two days
2:33
Speaker 3: after getting let go, I agree with what you just said.
2:36
Speaker 3: That's my biggest thing. Wait till the offseason. Other opportunities
2:39
Speaker 3: might open up and he'll have the opportunity to maybe
2:41
Speaker 3: pick and choose where he wants to go instead of
2:43
Speaker 3: going from Boston, which is as we know, has n't
2:46
Speaker 3: been great, to Philly, which really has n't been great
2:49
Speaker 3: within two days not knowing anything. Yes, I know he
2:51
Speaker 3: loves Dave Dombrowski. I think he made the right call.
2:54
Speaker 3: I would have waited too if I was him.
2:56
Speaker 2: I'm with you, AJ, And to me, it always seemed
2:59
Speaker 2: like a stretch which it would not have been unprecedented
3:02
Speaker 2: in baseball history. There have been a couple of examples
3:04
Speaker 2: of this. Bob Lemon in nineteen seventy eight going from
3:07
Speaker 2: the White Sox to the Yankees, and then Buck Rogers
3:10
Speaker 2: I believe in ninety one did something along the same lines.
3:14
Speaker 2: But think about how this would play out. Alex Corra
3:17
Speaker 2: is managing the Boston Red Sox on Friday, actually on Saturday,
3:22
Speaker 2: and then he would walk into the Phillies Clubhouse, let's
3:25
Speaker 2: say tomorrow, and that would be incredibly jarring to everyone involved,
3:31
Speaker 2: to the players, to Cora, and it just was a
3:35
Speaker 2: hard thing in my mind to pull off. It's a
3:38
Speaker 2: hard thing to do in the middle of a season,
3:41
Speaker 2: end of a season. Different story. But if this had
3:44
Speaker 2: happened and you asked me, why would he do that?
3:47
Speaker 2: The reason to do it would be to go work
3:50
Speaker 2: for a guy that he is so close with, Dave Dombrowski.
3:53
Speaker 2: That's the only reason he would maybe even consider it.
3:56
Speaker 2: And again it came down to family reasons and him
3:59
Speaker 2: simply not being ready right now.
4:02
Speaker 4: The argument for me is, you know, people expect this
4:05
Speaker 4: massive change from your interaction with Don Mattingly and your
4:09
Speaker 4: interaction with Rob Thompson. What is the what is the
4:13
Speaker 4: change that you would expect because from Joe Girardi to
4:16
Speaker 4: Topper it was so heavy handed to more of a
4:20
Speaker 4: relaxed attitude. So what's the difference is that you can
4:24
Speaker 4: expect from seeing Don Mattingley in there.
4:26
Speaker 2: It's a good question, Eric, And there's much less of
4:28
Speaker 2: a difference between Rob Thompson and Don Mattingly than there
4:32
Speaker 2: was between Girardi and Thompson. Now, what are the Phillies
4:36
Speaker 2: doing here? They're doing what teams always do when they
4:39
Speaker 2: fire the manager mid season, early in the season. As
4:42
Speaker 2: the Phillies are doing here, and as the Red Sox
4:44
Speaker 2: just did, they're looking for whatever you want to call,
4:47
Speaker 2: whatever catchphrase you want to use, new energy, a different direction,
4:52
Speaker 2: go on and on and on, and that's all that's
4:55
Speaker 2: going on here. And clearly the Phillies believe that they're
4:59
Speaker 2: better than this. They are better than this. We should
5:02
Speaker 2: all expect them to play better under Manningly than they
5:05
Speaker 2: did under Thompson. But that probably would have happened under
5:08
Speaker 2: Thompson anyway. And what happened here was the writing was
5:12
Speaker 2: on the wall. And at that point, to me, when
5:16
Speaker 2: everyone is talking about a change, then you got to
5:19
Speaker 2: make the change. And the Mets are kind of in
5:21
Speaker 2: a similar position. I understand that with Carlos Mendoza, but
5:25
Speaker 2: David Stearns handpicked Carlos Mendoza, as Dombrowski did, of course
5:29
Speaker 2: with with Rob Thompson. But it is a little bit different,
5:35
Speaker 2: and Stearns has never fired a manager in season, and
5:37
Speaker 2: he obviously is reluctant to do that. Maybe the Mets
5:42
Speaker 2: just start playing better because they're better than this, although
5:44
Speaker 2: I don't know how much better. And it works out
5:47
Speaker 2: that way, we'll see. But this is clearly a choice
5:50
Speaker 2: simply to change the guy who's running the ship.
5:55
Speaker 4: We love our Dogabella, who's really just a couch cushion
5:57
Speaker 4: in our house, and.
5:59
Speaker 5: You do anything her.
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6:56
Speaker 3: Ken, No, I can't talk about managers getting fired and
6:59
Speaker 3: charge is because I hate it because I know these guys.
7:01
Speaker 3: You know these guys, You get to talk to them
7:03
Speaker 3: all the time, and it just stinks when someone loses
7:05
Speaker 3: their job. But we keep bringing up Alex Cora, and
7:09
Speaker 3: you wrote an article the other day about John Henry
7:11
Speaker 3: and everyone's talking about this. How come John Henry never
7:13
Speaker 3: gets in front of a microphone and speaks. How come
7:16
Speaker 3: John Henry don't doesn't let the players ask questions? How
7:19
Speaker 3: come Sam Kennedy doesn't let the players ask questions. How
7:21
Speaker 3: come Craig Breslow doesn't let the players ask questions. They
7:25
Speaker 3: just do these things and then it's like, oh, we're done, now,
7:27
Speaker 3: we're moving on, we'll see you later out of here.
7:31
Speaker 2: Well, those are questions, obviously, AJ for John Henry.
7:34
Speaker 3: But I'll call him not, let me call him real quick, Ken, me,
7:37
Speaker 3: let me just let me just what my feeling on
7:39
Speaker 3: that is.
7:39
Speaker 2: And I spoke about this on Fair Territory yesterday. John
7:43
Speaker 2: Henry and Craig Breslow both lack feel. And what I
7:48
Speaker 2: mean by feel is a sense of what it is
7:52
Speaker 2: like in a major league clubhouse, what players are feeling,
7:55
Speaker 2: what players want to hear, what they want to offer
7:58
Speaker 2: as input. Now might say, Craig Breslo, how can he
8:01
Speaker 2: lack feel? He was a left handed reliever in the
8:03
Speaker 2: game for quite a while. I don't know the answer
8:06
Speaker 2: to that, but it certainly comes off that way with
8:09
Speaker 2: some of the interactions that he's had. You go back
8:11
Speaker 2: to the devors thing that was mishandled. You go back
8:14
Speaker 2: to the other day when yes, they did not allow
8:17
Speaker 2: the players to speak in that meeting. Breslol later said
8:21
Speaker 2: that he talked to them individually. Okay, but they wanted
8:24
Speaker 2: to vent. They should have been allowed to vent. And yes,
8:28
Speaker 2: I know their employees, and Breslo is the employer, and
8:31
Speaker 2: so is John Henry and Sam Kennedy. But at the
8:34
Speaker 2: same time, if you have feel, you understand the dynamics,
8:39
Speaker 2: and you understand that guys want to have their say,
8:42
Speaker 2: and you let them have your say. There say you've
8:44
Speaker 2: done what you've done anyway, it's not going to change anything,
8:47
Speaker 2: but at least you have an open line of communication. Now,
8:51
Speaker 2: Breslow said he later opened that line. Okay, but at
8:54
Speaker 2: that time you saw Trevor Story's quotes, and Trevor's story
8:58
Speaker 2: again is one of the more mild battered guys the game.
9:00
Speaker 2: He is not a fiery clubhouse lawyer. He's anything but that.
9:06
Speaker 2: And he was ticked off and he spoke for a
9:09
Speaker 2: lot of the players.
9:11
Speaker 4: One of the things that was said yesterday after the
9:13
Speaker 4: firing was baseball operations in Boston has not been a
9:18
Speaker 4: great place to work, and people felt like maybe Craig
9:21
Speaker 4: Breslo was getting ahead of the fact that it could
9:25
Speaker 4: have been his job. So instead of his job, it's it,
9:28
Speaker 4: or instead of my job, it's his job. Is there
9:31
Speaker 4: a case where an organization that has four rings under
9:35
Speaker 4: that ownership would ever make a change because they've had success?
9:40
Speaker 4: Ownership says, well, if winning is success, we've won.
9:45
Speaker 2: Where would the change that you're talking about being the
9:48
Speaker 2: ownership ranks Eric.
9:49
Speaker 4: In the ownership the way the ownership is running their
9:52
Speaker 4: things in more of a lording over everybody, like people
9:56
Speaker 4: are upset about how they're lording over everybody, and they
9:58
Speaker 4: fired GMS, they fired, they fired you know, everybody that's
10:02
Speaker 4: been there. It's like a small window that you get
10:04
Speaker 4: a chance to win.
10:07
Speaker 2: Well fil left, of course, right, Sorry, But at the
10:11
Speaker 2: same time, your point is well taken. And I wrote
10:13
Speaker 2: about this the other day. They run through people like
10:16
Speaker 2: few other organizations. And what was my first sentence the
10:20
Speaker 2: other day. Craig Breslo is next. And what I meant
10:23
Speaker 2: by that is his expiration date is going to come
10:26
Speaker 2: with this ownership group, because ultimately they're looking for a scapegoat.
10:30
Speaker 2: They're looking for someone to blame. And when this team
10:33
Speaker 2: does not do what they anticipate, guess who's going to
10:38
Speaker 2: be under scrutiny then, And it's Breslo. Now to answer
10:41
Speaker 2: your question, is this why he took the action that
10:45
Speaker 2: he did? And remember it was not just Cora, it
10:47
Speaker 2: was six coaches, six and that is incredibly unusual for
10:53
Speaker 2: this time of year, or let alone any point in
10:56
Speaker 2: the season to fire that many coaches along with the manager. Yes,
11:00
Speaker 2: I'm sure, because he feels he has to produce here
11:03
Speaker 2: and this is what he thinks is going to work,
11:06
Speaker 2: bringing in these new coaches, doing it this new way
11:08
Speaker 2: having Chad Tracy be the interim manager. We'll see. But
11:12
Speaker 2: I'll say this, if it doesn't work, and I would
11:16
Speaker 2: say the odds of it not working are better than
11:18
Speaker 2: the odds of it working, then who gets under fire
11:22
Speaker 2: at that point it's Craig Breslo.
11:25
Speaker 1: So I think this is a good way to cap
11:26
Speaker 1: the conversation and to bring the Mets into this conversation.
11:31
Speaker 1: There aren't many options when you're in late April and
11:35
Speaker 1: your team doesn't look the way you want it to look.
11:37
Speaker 1: We went over this in the last segment. Ken you
11:39
Speaker 1: can't trade much this early in the season. You can't
11:42
Speaker 1: do much with a roster. Generally, you're not going to
11:44
Speaker 1: let go of the front office and cause that whole upheaval.
11:47
Speaker 1: It's a hitting coach or a manager. So you covered
11:50
Speaker 1: the Red Sox side if they don't make the playoffs.
11:51
Speaker 1: Brezlo's gone on the Mets in the Phillies. Do you
11:54
Speaker 1: see the same thing occurring here? The Mets continue down
11:57
Speaker 1: a spiral here over the next few days, I'm assuming
11:59
Speaker 1: we're going to see a manager change. They don't really
12:01
Speaker 1: have anywhere else to go. But for both teams, the
12:03
Speaker 1: Mets and the Phillies. If one of them misses the
12:05
Speaker 1: playoffs this year, do we then look at a front
12:09
Speaker 1: office change.
12:11
Speaker 2: David Stearns and especially Dave Dombrowski are much more established
12:16
Speaker 2: than Craig Breslow, and they work for owners who, in
12:19
Speaker 2: my view, are not as reactionary as Craig Breslow. I mean,
12:22
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, as John Henry so Steve Cohen might ultimately
12:27
Speaker 2: become that way, but he hasn't been. John Middleton really
12:31
Speaker 2: is committed to Dave Dombrowski in a big way. So
12:35
Speaker 2: I know what you're saying there, and you're right. The
12:39
Speaker 2: pure dynamic is somewhat similar, but the overall dynamic in
12:43
Speaker 2: each case is different. And Stearns, certainly, if this team
12:47
Speaker 2: flops and this makeover that he orchestrated during the off
12:52
Speaker 2: season is a failure, then yes, I would imagine he's
12:57
Speaker 2: under fire. Cohen considers a change. Dobrawski I don't see
13:01
Speaker 2: that happening too. But with both of these situations, actually
13:06
Speaker 2: all three, they're all different, and it just kind of
13:10
Speaker 2: remains to be seen. The Red Sox have a history.
13:12
Speaker 2: They've done it three times now. The three predecessors to
13:15
Speaker 2: Breslo of not giving a guy more than four years.
13:19
Speaker 2: Breslo's in his third year, so that is logically something
13:23
Speaker 2: you can see and say, Okay, he's in the middle
13:27
Speaker 2: of it right now. He needs to produce. Sterns has
13:30
Speaker 2: a longer deal. Debrowski is a longer deal. I don't
13:34
Speaker 2: know that they're under quite the same pressure. If the
13:37
Speaker 2: Mets do flop, the noise is going to get incredibly
13:40
Speaker 2: loud around Sterns. It's pretty loud right now, and we'll
13:44
Speaker 2: have to just see how that all plays out.
13:48
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14:49
Speaker 3: No Stearns isn't going anywhere, Dobrowski's only going somewhere if
14:52
Speaker 3: he wants to. And Breslo well, whichever way the wind
14:55
Speaker 3: blows for the Red Sox can so. I don't know
14:58
Speaker 3: he'd be the one if you had to pick one
14:59
Speaker 3: of those three that would be gone. Let's talk about
15:01
Speaker 3: something a little more positive though. We get to see
15:03
Speaker 3: a one to one make his debut, Travis Bozana. Right,
15:06
Speaker 3: he makes his debut tonight. I'm assuming it's tonight for Cleveland,
15:11
Speaker 3: and what's he gonna bring to the table, what's the
15:13
Speaker 3: reason behind doing it now? And is he gonna play?
15:17
Speaker 3: Where's he gonna play? Because I know he's kinda he's
15:19
Speaker 3: moved around a little bit, So where's he gonna play?
15:21
Speaker 2: This goes back to the Gabriel Arius injury. That's when
15:24
Speaker 2: they brought up Brito to play second base, and he
15:27
Speaker 2: hasn't really succeeded. They're high on Brito, They're higher on
15:31
Speaker 2: Bazana obviously because he was an one to one, as
15:34
Speaker 2: you say, and he'll be the second baseman and we'll
15:38
Speaker 2: see how this plays out. What is so interesting about
15:40
Speaker 2: the Guardians is that they not only have those two
15:44
Speaker 2: players I just mentioned. They've got a bunch of other
15:46
Speaker 2: position players, young guys who could come up and make
15:49
Speaker 2: an impact at some point this season. So for a
15:52
Speaker 2: team that was largely successful last season, they had to
15:55
Speaker 2: consider their season and success what they did coming on
15:58
Speaker 2: at the end. They are going to be evolving throughout
16:01
Speaker 2: the course of the year. They're going to be evolving
16:03
Speaker 2: as they look at these different players and decide, Okay,
16:07
Speaker 2: let's plug him in here, maybe him in there now.
16:10
Speaker 2: Rokio was a guy that is in that mix of
16:15
Speaker 2: players who have been with the Guardians but not really
16:18
Speaker 2: hit their ceiling. Now he seems to be playing better,
16:21
Speaker 2: so maybe he'll stave off one of those kids. But
16:24
Speaker 2: at second base. Ultimately could be Arius at short, Rokio
16:28
Speaker 2: at second.
16:29
Speaker 4: But what if.
16:30
Speaker 2: Bizana takes off. There are all these possibilities in play
16:33
Speaker 2: for Cleveland. It makes them actually a really interesting team
16:37
Speaker 2: to follow. And also this is the reason why they
16:40
Speaker 2: didn't do more in the offseason. Now. One reason, of course,
16:43
Speaker 2: is they don't ever spend money, but they do have
16:46
Speaker 2: these players that they want to give runway to at
16:49
Speaker 2: some point and we'll see how it all plays out
16:52
Speaker 2: for them.
16:54
Speaker 1: Hey, Ken, last one, this is fun playing off of
16:56
Speaker 1: AJ's topic. It's not just Bizanna, but Elmer Rodriguez was
17:00
Speaker 1: just announced that not only is he popping up for
17:03
Speaker 1: the Yankees, but very soon it's tomorrow.
17:05
Speaker 5: So this is fun. Ken.
17:06
Speaker 1: We have Jacob de Gram against Cam Schlitzler tonight in Texas,
17:10
Speaker 1: and then we get Elmer Rodriguez against Nathan Evaldi.
17:13
Speaker 5: I mean, that is some good pitching talent. I know
17:14
Speaker 5: I'vealdi's been off to a slower start, but still that's
17:16
Speaker 5: really cool.
17:17
Speaker 1: So your thoughts on this and I think, you know,
17:19
Speaker 1: it's funny we can tie this to the Red Sox
17:22
Speaker 1: and how they felt like they're not developing enough on
17:24
Speaker 1: the position player side. Well, Elmer Rodriguez was in the
17:26
Speaker 1: system for the Socks, and I know they got Narvaiaz
17:28
Speaker 1: out of it, who's been a nice catcher in the
17:30
Speaker 1: big leagues. But can you imagine if Elmer Rodriguez, who
17:33
Speaker 1: is the top pitching prospect for the Yanks, becomes like
17:36
Speaker 1: an ace number one guy.
17:37
Speaker 5: Red Sox fans would not be pleased.
17:40
Speaker 2: No, they would not, And certainly there's that possibility. Elmo
17:43
Speaker 2: Rodriguez is one of the better pitching prospects in the game.
17:46
Speaker 2: But as you said, Scott, now Aviz is a major
17:49
Speaker 2: league catcher and a pretty good one. I know he's
17:51
Speaker 2: having his ups and downs. But you make that trade
17:55
Speaker 2: if you're the Red Sox to get a young catcher.
17:57
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that. And yes, we
17:59
Speaker 2: can second guess it in two three years if Rodriguez
18:02
Speaker 2: turns into Paul Skeins. I don't know that that's going
18:05
Speaker 2: to happen. But the excitement of young players coming into
18:08
Speaker 2: the game, it's one of my favorite things about baseball.
18:10
Speaker 2: And just what you mentioned just there about the young
18:13
Speaker 2: old matchups these next two nights, the Gram versus Schlitler,
18:17
Speaker 2: Ivaldi versus Rodriguez. That's cool stuff and it's fun stuff
18:21
Speaker 2: to watch. And one thing I like about the Yankees
18:24
Speaker 2: is kind of what I just said about Cleveland. Now,
18:27
Speaker 2: they don't have as many on the position players side,
18:29
Speaker 2: though they just brought up Jason Dominguez again, but they
18:32
Speaker 2: have young pitching, and they have guys Legron Hay is
18:36
Speaker 2: another one, and Rodriguez of course coming up tomorrow that
18:40
Speaker 2: can factor into what they do this year. They also
18:44
Speaker 2: have Garrett Cole and Carlos Rodin and possibly Clark Schmidt
18:47
Speaker 2: coming back, so there is some pitching there and it's
18:51
Speaker 2: an interesting group that they have. We'll see again how
18:54
Speaker 2: it all figures in the long run and who emerges
18:59
Speaker 2: as viable guys for the playoffs, assuming they make them.
19:03
Speaker 2: But they're in a really good spot. And keep in
19:05
Speaker 2: mind too, Ben Rice was a homegrown guy. Volpi, I
19:08
Speaker 2: know he hasn't had success homegrown guy. They've done pretty
19:11
Speaker 2: well in this regard compared to some other large market teams.
19:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, to me, that's the big difference.
19:17
Speaker 1: There was a stretch where the Yankees did not develop much,
19:19
Speaker 1: especially on the position player side. It's working for them now,
19:22
Speaker 1: so given credit where credits due on that front. Ken,
19:25
Speaker 1: thank you, Josey Agrown by the way, Aaron Judge, well
19:29
Speaker 1: that's what I was saying about, Judge. There was a
19:31
Speaker 1: gap for a while though after that that's the point.
19:33
Speaker 1: And then yes, you're right now it's flooded with good
19:36
Speaker 1: development success stories. But yes, I have not forgotten about
19:40
Speaker 1: a mister Judge.
19:41
Speaker 5: Ken, thank you. We'll catch you later in the week.
19:44
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, that's ft Senior insider Ken Rosenthal in a
19:47
Speaker 1: super busy day, Fair Territory will have lots of action
19:50
Speaker 1: for you. On Thursday, they covered the Red Sox story
19:53
Speaker 1: in depth, so go back to that if you missed it,
19:56
Speaker 1: but then otherwise Questions for Ken and Alana with him
19:59
Speaker 1: on Thursday above thirty Eastern Time