Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 8-10) (8/30/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 8-10) (8/30/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the Tova Noel interview with Congress. Question, okay,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: some of these other inmates coming and going at 315,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: inmate Fernandez left the shoe for a dry cell in RA.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: That's 45 minutes before you arrived. Did anybody mention that
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to you at the time? Answer, no. Question, and then
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: during your shift, there were a few more departures. So
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: somebody named Hemingway departs at 6.34 p.m. And then a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: few minutes later, an inmate named Reed also leaves. Those
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: are both in your first two to three hours of work.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Do you recall anybody mentioning, or I guess, would you
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: have seen Hemingway or Reed leave the SHU? Answer, to
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: be honest, I don't recall these two inmates leaving. Question,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: got it. Would that likely be? Would you physically be
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: in the SHU essentially during your entire shift? Answer, I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: would be in the SHU my entire shift. Unless I
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: went to the bathroom on 10 South. Question. Understand. And
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: so I guess, is it the likeliest scenario? Is these
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: guys leave, but you don't necessarily recall sitting here today?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: That happening? Answer. Correct. Question. Okay. And then at 8.21 PM,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Felix and Williams leave for Suicide Watch. And you just
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: described before what Suicide Watch was. Do you recall those
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: two inmates leaving? Answer. I don't. Question. Okay. And around 8.30 a.m.,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: an inmate named Garcia Pena moved into the shoe. That's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the only inmate we're aware of coming into the shoe
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: that day. Do you have any recollection of Mr. Garcia
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Pena arriving? Answer, no. Question, okay. So it ends up being,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I think a total of six inmates leaving, one arriving
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: that day. You don't really have any recollection? Gets cut
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: off by Noel. Of any of that, no. Question, okay.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Is it right that as far as you remember... Mr.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Epstein was out of the shoe most of the day
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: with his lawyers? Answer, correct. Question, okay. So you started
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: your first shift at 4 p.m., and right away, it
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: would have been time for the 4 p.m. count. Is
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that right? Answer, correct. Question, that count slip I think
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: was signed by yourself and the evening watch officer in charge.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: There was some question about whether or not that count happened.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Sitting here today, to the best of your recollection, Did
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: you or your colleagues conduct the 4 p.m. count? Answer,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I didn't conduct the 4 p.m. count. Question, since there
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: was a total of three of you, do you know
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: whether the other two guards conducted the 4 p.m. count? Answer,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. Question, okay, I think your signature was
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: on the 4 p.m. count slip, though. Is that correct,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: as far as you know? Answer, I think so. Question,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: with respect to Mr. Epstein's phone call, which we understand
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to be sometime around 7 p.m., Mr. Epstein, this is
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: our best understanding, and then I'll ask you. Answer, okay. Question,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: our understanding, Mr. Epstein was escorted to the shoe shower
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: area so that gets cut off by Noel. Correct. Question,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: so that he can make a phone call. The phone
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: call was not monitored or recorded, and Mr. Epstein was
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: left alone for the conversation. Do you have any knowledge
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: of that personally? Answer, yes. Question, okay. What's your recollection
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: of that? Answer. Mr. Epstein came into the shoe with Bullock.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Bullock placed him in the shower, plugged in the phone,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: and gave it to him. He didn't say anything to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: any of us, and he left. After a long while,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: he called. I answered the phone, and he said take
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the phone from Epstein because his time is up. I
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: went to the shower cell, and I told him that
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: his time was up, and I took the phone from Mr. Epstein. Question.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And the he is Bullock. Answer. Bullock. Correct. Redacted, okay,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: did you, would you have been able to overhear any
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: of the conversations from wherever you were sitting at the time? Answer, no. Question,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: did you overhear any conversation when you came in to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: take the phone from Epstein? Answer, no. Question, did Epstein, well,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: let's do this. What did you say to Mr. Epstein
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: when he entered the shower area? Answer, that Bullock told
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: me to take the phone from him because their time
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: was up and he told me, okay. And he told
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the person bye. Question, and that's it as far as
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: you remember? Answer, correct. Question, it sounds like Epstein was
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: on a line that's supposed to be for calls with lawyers,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: which this was not. Were you familiar at the time
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: with how inmate phone calls were normally supposed to work
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: at the MCC? Answer, not in the shoe. I'm not familiar. Question,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: if you remember, did you have a sense at the
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: time that this was an unusual setup for an inmate's
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: phone call? Answer, no. Question, it didn't look out of
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the ordinary to you? Answer, no, because the jacks don't work.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: So you have to put them where the jack is working.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: But I learned that after it was unmonitored. As far
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: as what's monitored and what's not monitored, I don't know. Question,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: do you recall in your time in the shoes seeing
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Bullock or anybody at Bullock's level, I guess anybody from
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: MCC staff, putting an inmate in that shower area for
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: a phone call? Answer, yes. Question, okay. Can you estimate
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: maybe roughly how many times? Answer, I can't. Maybe two. Question,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and if you can recall, would that have occurred with
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: an inmate other than Epstein? Answer, yes. Question, okay. So
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: it did not strike you as something unprecedented that you
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: had never seen before? Answer, no. Question, you also mentioned
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: to the IG that you fed Epstein dinner sometime after
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: his phone call. After he went back to his cell,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: is that right? Answer, correct. Question, do you recall roughly
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: what time that would have been? Answer, I don't have
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a time. Question, would it have been before or after
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the 10 p.m. count? Answer, it would have been before. Question, okay.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And roughly what time would he have gone back to
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: his cell from the phone call? I guess 7.15 or 7.30? Answer,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: or about 8, after 8. Question, got it. Okay. Answer,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: because after the phone was taken from him, he wasn't
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: moved right away. He was left in there in the shower.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Because you can't move an inmate when orderlies are out.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Because they can't cross each other. So he wasn't moved
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: right away. He was left in there. And then I
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: went to the bathroom. And when I came back, he
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: was moved. He was in his cell. Question. Could you
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: estimate to the best of your recollection how long he
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: would have been left in the shower area after the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: phone was taken from him? Answer. About 10 minutes. Question.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like there were orderlies out and about
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: doing work at the time. Answer. Correct. Question. Was this normal?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: That the orderlies sort of every night in the shoe
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: would be out doing work? Or did that change from
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: day to day? Answer, it would change. Question, okay. Just
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: on the particular day they were out. Answer, correct. Question, okay.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: With respect to feeding Mr. Epstein dinner, was that at
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the same time that you fed everybody in the shoe? Answer, no. Question, okay.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: It was specifically Mr. Epstein? Answer, correct. Question, was that
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: just because that's when he got back from the phone call? Answer.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Because feeding would have been at four when I come
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: onto my shift, where everybody eats from downstairs. Epstein doesn't
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: eat from downstairs. He eats what we called common fare
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: because he's kosher. Question. Got it. So he's getting food
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: from a different source because of a kosher restriction? Answer. Yeah.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: So the inmates get like, like prepared cooked food. He's
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: like a prepackaged, like you warm it in the microwave
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: and you give it to him. Question. And would he
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: typically have his dinner? What time does everybody else have dinner?
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Answer at four, after four. Question okay. And his would
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: typically be later because he's not getting back from the
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: conference room? Answer correct. Question, can you recall other inmates
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: that got their meals from a similar kind of prepackaged arrangement,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: whether it's kosher or some other restriction? Was that common
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: or uncommon? Answer in the shoe, nobody else had that.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Only Epstein that I can recall. And what can you
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: recall about your interaction, if there was one, with Epstein
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: when you brought him his dinner? Did he say anything
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: to you? Answer, no. There's a food slot in the door,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: so Davis put the food in the microwave, and then
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Davis had the grill key, so he opened the grill.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And I, like, opened the food slot, and I gave
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: it to him. And he took it, and he said
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: thank you, and I closed the food slot back. Question
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: got it. So two people traveled to bring a meal
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: to a cell. Answer, right. Because every time, it's always
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: going to be two in the shoe. Because somebody has
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: to open the grill. Question, so is it right that
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: any time a guard goes into a tier, in the shoe,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: there have to be two guards? Answer, supposed to. Question,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: supposed to be. Answer, correct. Question, okay, alright. I know
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the one inmate that arrived into the shoe,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Garcia Pena. I think you said it, but you have
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: no recollection or knowledge of him as an inmate or
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: as a rival, is that correct? Answer, correct. Question, okay.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And we found a document somewhere that suggested his transfer
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: into the shoe had to do with a tobacco-related infraction.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Would that be something that you had seen before? The
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: type of thing that would land an inmate in the shoe? Answer, correct. Question.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: This is to be the best of your memory. Were
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: any of the cells in the shoe? How about just
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: an L-tier if you can recall empty that night? Or
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: in the whole shoe? Did every cell have at least
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: one inmate in it? Answer. Question. Answer. Question. Question, can
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: you say that one more time for me? Answer, to
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the best of my recollection, I think everybody had one
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: except Epstein. Question, meaning everybody had a cellmate? Answer, correct. Question,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: so to the best of your recollection, Epstein was the
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: only person alone in his cell in the entire shoe
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: that night. Answer, to the best of my recollection, yes. Question,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: and you have no recollection of any of your colleagues
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: or yourself having any kind of conversation with Because that
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: would look even more out of the ordinary, that there's
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: only one inmate alone and it's Epstein. There was no
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: conversation about that. Answer, no. If it wasn't Epstein and
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: it was another inmate alone, it's not uncommon though, if
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: they're alone, because people leave all the time to go
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: to General Pop or if people get released. So the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: one inmate is not like suspicious, like if I saw
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: one person in a cell and it just happened to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: be him, but it wouldn't have raised suspicion just to
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: be clear. And question, and I'm just thinking out loud,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: but if six people left the shoe that day, is
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it possible that not every cell had? Because you would
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: never have a cell with three inmates in the shoe, right?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Answer right. Question, so is it possible that there may
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: have been some other cells somewhere in the shoe? Gets
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: cut off by Tova Noel. Probably, they didn't have one,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: but I can't recall who or if at this present time. Question,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I understand. With respect to the 10 p.m. count, There's
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: some question in the IG report about the extent to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: which you or your colleagues conducted that count. We know
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: that there were movements around the time and some debate
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: about whether that is officially part of the count or not. Answer, uh-huh. Question,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: from your point of view, sitting here today, did you
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: conduct that 10 p.m. count? Answer, from my point of view,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: sitting here today, I conducted the 10 p.m. count improperly
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: because it was done by myself. Question, what do you recall?
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Can you describe your recollection? of conducting that 10 p.m.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: count for us? What do you remember about what you
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: did and around when you did it? Answer, I entered
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: every tier and counted the inmates. Epstein doesn't sleep on
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: his bed. He sleeps on the floor. He puts the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: mattress on the floor. So when you're conducting a count,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: you look in the window of each tier and you count.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And I went up and down every tier and I
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: counted by myself. Question, and did you fill out a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: count slip? Answer, yeah. Question, and there was some mention
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: in the IG report that all may have occurred, you know,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: around 10.30 after the official account had been cleared, the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: 10 p.m. count by control. Is that possible from your
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: point of view? Answer about the count slip. Question, yeah.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: That your counting may have occurred maybe around 10.30 when
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the control, central control, had already cleared the paperwork. Answer, oh,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: that I don't know. Noel, just to clarify, the starting
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: count time is 10, but you're not. It's an institutional count.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: So on the other units, they're waiting for internal to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: come and count with them. So the count would never
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: be cleared like directly at 10 because you're going through
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the whole building, going to each unit for everybody to
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: count and you're waiting on them. So the count, the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: count time is at 10, but you're not necessarily. So
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: you're in the vicinity of after 10 counting. It could
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: be 1015. It could be 1030. And then after the
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: whole building has counted, then they would have to clear
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the count. I don't know anything about them clearing the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: count before I counted. All right, folks, we're going to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: wrap up this episode right here. And in the next episode,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: And welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: off with the Tova Noel interview with Congress. Question, thank you.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And the 10 p.m. count slip, I think, said 73
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: plus one. Do you have any knowledge of why it
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: said that? Answer, so to the best of my recollection,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: just like I said earlier, I wasn't aware that Reyes
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: was coming back. I know like when somebody leaves, they're
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: supposed to be on an out count. And I guess
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that's how they documented on the count slip. So if
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: you're on the count and you're putting plus one, indicating
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: that there's an out count. But for some reason that night,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I think at some point in time, the count couldn't
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: clear because he didn't come back. So they had to control,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: had to call me to tell me the count, to
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: have the count clear. Question, do you recall whether or
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: not it was actually you who wrote the plus one?
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Because there's a question that it might have been down
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: in control. Answer, yeah, I'm not, I can't remember. Question, okay,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a quick note on the CPAP machine. Am I saying
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that right? Answer, yeah. Question, I think I heard you mention,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: but I just wanted to confirm. The best that you
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: can recall, Epstein could have grabbed that cord which was
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: out in the hallway and snaked it into his own cell.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Answer, correct. Question, okay. I've got one
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: more before we break for this round, and I'm going
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: to introduce Minority Exhibit B. This is an article. You
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: do not have to read the whole article. Maybe just
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: scanning the second page and the third page might be helpful.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: For the court reporter, this is a CBS News article titled,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Who Entered Epstein's Jail Tier the Night of His Death?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And the article is dated February 6th, 2026. And I'm
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: just going to, whenever you're ready, bring your attention to
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the second and third pages of the article. Answer okay. Question,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: so there's a chart here you can see on the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: second page. It's called FBI analysis of video footage. That's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the FBI trying to figure out, based on that one recording,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: shoe camera, kind of what happened, when, and who was
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: going where. You can see at 1039 it's highlighted here,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: that quote, a flash of orange, I think that's probably
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: supposed to be of orange, looks to be going up
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the L-tier stairs. Could possibly be an inmate escorted up
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: that tier. And then if you flip to the next page,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: there's another chart. And this is where the IG did
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: their best to figure it out. And again for 1039,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: here it says, quote, a flash of orange can be
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: seen going up the stairs of L-tier. Inmates are currently
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: on lockdown. It's possible someone's carrying inmate linen or bedding
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: up the stairs. Both agencies agree that the two minutes before,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: two minutes after, it seems like somebody is moving around
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the shoe. We took a look at the video ourselves.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: It's hard to make out. It's blurry. But from our
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: point of view, it seems likely that this was part
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: of your movements around the time of 10 p.m. count.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: It seems possible to us that the orange may be
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: just you carrying something up the stairs to L-tier. From
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: your point of view, do you know whether that was
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: you at the 1039 marker going up to L-tier? Answer,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: so after I would have conducted the 10pm count where
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I started on that first tier, like if you watch
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the video, I'm going the opposite way, and I ended
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: at the left tier. I never went back up to
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: L tier after that again. I never distributed anything orange,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: whether linen or clothing. Everything in the shoe also is orange,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: like linen, clothes, shoes, everything's orange. I never distributed linen
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the entire time I worked at MCC to any inmate
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: at all, and I never went back up the tier.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: nor did I carry anything up the tier, nor did
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I enter the tier after the time that I did
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the count. Question, is it possible that that 1039 movement
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: is part of you doing the count? Answer, but I
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: started there first. Question, and what do you mean by
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: started where? Answer, so like L, the double tiers, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: then going to the next one in the middle, and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: then going to the other one, I started on L,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: working my way this way. So I think to the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: best of my recollection, this would have been after. Because
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: on the video, I was walking like towards the door.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It looked like I walked towards off camera. And then
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you see whatever that orange is. There was nobody out
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: in the shoe. There was nobody carrying anything. And I
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: never went back. After I would have did that 10
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: o'clock where you saw me, I never went back to
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the tier until the morning when it was time for breakfast. Question.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: It sounds like, and we also, it sounds like you've
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: seen that video as well. Is that right? Answer. Correct. Question.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Are you as close to 100% confident as you can
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: be that the 1039 flash of orange is not you? Answer, yeah.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, to be honest. To
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: be very honest, I don't know what it is, who
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: it is. Because I never went back to the tier.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And I was never carrying anything orange at all. And
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I never issued anything orange to anyone in the shoe.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Not just only Epstein, just anyone. Question, is it right?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And I think you had said at this point in
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the night, All the inmates in the shoe were locked in.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer, correct. Question, and do you have
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: any memory of anybody somehow leaving their cell for any
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: reason in terms of inmates? Answer, yeah, no, they can't
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: get out. Question, and from our understanding from the IG
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: report and testimony of not just you, but also your colleagues,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: was that at this point in the night, your two
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: colleagues would have been sleeping. Is that right? Answer, it
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: would have been just one. Question, just one. Answer, it
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: would have been because this was 1030. So it would
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: have been just me and Bonhami. Question, got it. And Bonhami,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's been established in the reports, was asleep. Answer, correct.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: So is it from your point of view, is there
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: anybody left that could have been other than you? No,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't me. Question, well, that leaves a little bit
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: of a conundrum. Is it possible that it was you? Answer, no,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: because I didn't go back up the stairs. You see me,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: you see me walking off and going this way. And
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: then you see that, but I don't know what that is.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: And like I said before, I never carried, I didn't
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: go back up the stairs. And you can in that video,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: it's hard to tell. It's very hard to tell it
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: because you really see, like remember, his, his is up.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: You just like see a shadow. I don't know what
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the shadow could have been in fact I want to
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: say that I don't know what it is because I
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: never issued linen or anything at all question is it
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: right it sounds like I hear from you that the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: person moving around at 1038 the minute before and like
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: two minutes after 1041 that is you is that right
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: answer correct question okay Is it right then, that as
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you sit here today, some other person going up L tier,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: basically at the exact same time you're moving around, you
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: would have noticed that, I would think? Answer, correct. Question,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and you did not see anyone go up L tier? Answer, no. Question,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: so it kind of feels like either it's you, or
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: nobody at all. It's some kind of weird image illusion. Answer,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the image illusion. And Epstein cell,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: the cell block was never opened after I closed that gate. That...
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: When I went after 10 doing that count, nobody went
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: up there, nor was his door open or the slot
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: or anything. No one went up there. Question. Okay, we
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: can go off the record and that'll do it for
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: this round. Thank you. Questions back now to Miss Fairbend. Question.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I'd like to start by asking you a few follow-ups
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: from topics that we covered in the last two hours.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that you had a personal engagement and it
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: was that came up on August 9th and it was
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: because of that that you had a shift on August 10th.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer, correct. Question, so you typically did
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: not have shifts from 12 a.m. midnight until 8 a.m.? Answer, correct. Question,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: why was it? It was because of a personal engagement? Answer, right,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that I couldn't do the 8 to 4 and then
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the 4 to 12. Question, so just to be clear,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: you weren't originally assigned to shift on the morning of
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: August 10th? Answer, I wasn't assigned to shift from the
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: midnight to 8 p.m. in the morning. Question, yes. Answer,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I was. Question, originally? Answer, oh, originally no. I got
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: called in and I was mandated on the 9th. Question, okay.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And we also mentioned the mandated overtime hours that you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: had to work. Was there a special overtime pay that
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: was included in that? Answer, so it was. I don't
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: remember if it was time and a half or it
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: was just 16 hours, but the pay would be more
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: because there's overtime. Question, okay. And you don't remember if
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it was time and a half? Answer, no. I don't
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: remember how they do it. Question, okay, were you paid
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: a salary or was it an hourly rate? Answer, salary. Question, okay,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and you said, I think the first hour, that you
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: don't remember what your salary was? Answer, yeah, no. So
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I was GS-5. So like if I Google what GS-5
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: would have the base pay been, but I don't remember. Question, okay,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: thank you. You also mentioned, I think, in the last
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: hour that Officer Thomas was, quote, materials handler? Answer, correct. Question,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: what does that mean? Answer, correct. So he's not like
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: a regular correctional officer. He works like downstairs. I don't know. Handling,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: for example, when the inmates go down to do laundry,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: like he oversees like stuff like that. But as far
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: as like what his main duties are, I don't know. Question.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: So he would be responsible for laundry? Answer. Like overseeing
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the inmates that's doing like laundry and other stuff. I'm
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: not sure. Like exactly what? Question. Okay. And you weren't
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a materials handler? Answer. No. Question. So I think you mentioned.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that you were never responsible for overseeing laundry. Is that correct? Answer, correct. Question, okay.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I know the minority touched on it as well, the
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: flash of orange that was seen in the video, but
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you some follow-ups about that. Question,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: just to be clear, have you seen the video that
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: we're referencing? Answer, yes. Question, okay. And you said that
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: what you saw was moving about the shoe station at 1038. Answer, correct. Question, okay.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Was that the time that you conducted the 10 p.m.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: institutional count? Answer, so as far as I remember from
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the video, I conducted the count, I was done, and
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I went back to the desk. Like maybe, I don't know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: how many minutes in between, then you see me walking
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: off going this way. But the video, you can't see,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: it cuts off. Question, okay. Answer, so it should have
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: been like minutes apart. Question, okay, do you remember where
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you were walking to? Answer, so the only direct, the
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: only thing that's that way Is the door in the bathroom? Question,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: do you remember going to the bathroom at 10.30? Answer,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. Question, do you think that would have
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: been something that you would have done? Answer, I don't recall.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: It could have been. When I was done, you stick
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the count slip in the sally port. I could have
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: walked there to stick the count slip, so I'm not
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: sure exactly, like, what's the reason that I walked that way? Question,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: so it seems like you were not, let me back up,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: were you at your station at 10.39pm when the flash
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: of orange could be seen going up the stairs? Answer, no,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I was off the camera that way. Question, could you
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: have seen the L-Tiers from where you were at? Answer,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: from the door? If I'm like, like I said, I
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: don't remember what I'm doing. If I'm in the bathroom
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm closed, I can't see it. If I just
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: walk to the door, like where we stick the slip,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: then I can see the L-Tier. Question, so to the
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: best of your recollection, you don't recall whether you could
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: see L-Tier stairs or not? Answer, I could see the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: L-Tier stairs if I'm standing by the door, but because
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know where I went. Okay, question. So you
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: didn't see in person any sort of flash of orange
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: going up the L stairs? Answer, no. Question. And you
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: said that you never distributed any linen. Is that correct? Answer, correct. Question.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And it's also your testimony that it was not you
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: going up the L tier stairs? Answer, correct. Question, okay.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts or opinions as to what
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: or who could have been in the video? Answer, no.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I watched it numerous times and I don't know what
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: it could have been. Only thing I could tell you,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: rest assured, it wasn't me. Question, do you think that
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: somebody that was not you or the other OC could
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: have been in the shoe at that time? Answer, it
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: would have been Bonhami at that time, me and Bonhami. Question,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: could it have been Officer Bonhom that was walking up
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the stairs? Answer, he was sleeping. Question, is it possible
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: it could have been one of your supervisors from downstairs
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: going up to the shoe? Answer, I would have had
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to let them in. So I would have known if
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: that was a supervisor coming in. Question, okay, so let
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: me back up. It seems like in the video, it
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: looks like a person carrying something or walking someone up. Answer,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it looks like. It looks like
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: literally the quality's poor. It just looks like a shadow
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: of orange. I never said a person nor somebody carrying.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: You can't see anything other than the shadow of orange.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: And you've said that you've seen this video numerous times. Answer, yes. Question,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: what do you think it is? Answer, I don't have
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a clue. I think it's a poor video and I
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: don't know what it is. Question, okay. Was the orange
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that you saw in the video that we've all seen
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in the video, is that a similar shade of orange
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to the inmate bedding or linens? Answer, I can't. The
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: quality is poor. Like it looks like the light, like
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: there's some type of like light within the orange. Question,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: was there anyone else that could have or was in
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: charge of issuing linens? That was not Officer Bonham? Answer.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, every correctional officer can issue linens. Emmer. But
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: for the record, any individual that would have been transporting
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the linen to Epstein's cell would have been in the shoe. Correct? Answer. Correct.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: And to get into the shoe, I would have had
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to let them in. Question. When you say let them in,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: do you physically open the door? Answer. So the first door,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: control pops the first door. The second door, somebody on
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the inside would have to let them in. Question okay.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And you don't recall letting anybody in? Answer no. I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: did not let anybody in. All right, everybody, we're going
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to wrap this episode up right here. And in the
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the Tova Noel interview with Congress.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Question okay. Let's talk about Mr. Epstein's time while he
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: was in the shoe. Answer, okay. Question, did you ever
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: have any conversation with Mr. Epstein while he was in
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer, the only conversation I had, like I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: referenced earlier, was when I took the phone from him
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: in the shower, letting him know that his time was up.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: As far as conversation, that would have been like me
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: speaking to him at the time. I mean, when I
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: handed the food, I just opened the food tray and
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I handed it. We didn't have a conversation. Oh, and
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: he asked me to plug in the CPAP machine, and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I said okay, and I plugged it in. Question, so
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: there were never any conversations, no back and forth, more
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: than what you just described? Answer, no. Question, did you
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: ever have any interaction with Mr. Epstein, besides the ones
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that you just mentioned? Answer, no. When I count, when
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I did the count by myself, when I looked through
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the window, he raised his hand. Question, signaling that he
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: was there? Answer, was there, correct. Because he's on the floor.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: He puts his mattress on the floor. Question, did that
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: seem unusual to you? Answer, no. Question, would other inmates
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: do things like that? Put mattresses on the floor? Answer,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I mean in general population, yeah. Especially if their bunk
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: was the top and they don't like to be on
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the top, they put it on the floor. Mr. Emmer,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that you didn't have any conversation with Mr.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Epstein while he was incarcerated. Are you aware of any
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: staff at MCC that may have had conversations with him
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: that were not related to his incarceration? Ms. Noel, not
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that I know of. Question, did he, he being Mr. Epstein,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: ever attempt to interact with you? Answer, no. Question, did
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: you witness or hear anything about him trying to interact
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: with you? any of the other officers? Answer, no. Question,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: would Mr. Epstein ever write notes in his cell? Answer,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I learned that after. I didn't physically see him writing
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: a note or was aware at the time that he
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: would write notes. Just know about the notes after. Question,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: so he did write notes in his cell that you
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: learned about after the fact? Answer, that I learned about
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: after the fact. Question, would inmates in the shoe have
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: access to materials while in their cell? Answer, I'm not sure. Question,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: would they have any, like books or pens, notepads, anything
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: like that? Answer, not that I saw. Question, would speaking
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: about shoe inmates, like generally, would they be allowed or
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: permitted to have such items in their cell? Answer, that
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to. I don't know if
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: they're permitted to have it. Question, you said earlier that
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: shoe inmates in particular... were different from the arrest of
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: MCC inmates because they were in their cells for 23 hours? Answer, correct. Question,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: out of the day, and they had one hour outside
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: their cell. What would normally be happening when they would
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: be outside their cells? Answer, so the one hour? Could
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: be that's where you're going to meet your attorney, or
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: there's like a little library, like right there you can go.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And I think in the shoe, it's you can't be together.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: There's like separation. So it's not like everybody's out together.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I guess if one's done reading, then the other could
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: come out like that. But other than that, I'm not
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: sure of anything else that they do because it's not
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: done on my shift. Question, what shift is it done on? Answer,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I know there's rec, but I don't know if they're
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: allowed to go to rec. I don't know who, but
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: that would have been a morning shift like 8 to 4.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I come on at 4, so... Question, what's the rec? Answer,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: on the roof upstairs outside. Question, you said that Mr.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Epstein met with his attorney, attorneys frequently. How did he seem?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Were you ever on shift whenever Mr. Epstein would come
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: back from visiting with his attorneys? Answer, yes. Question, how
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: did he seem when he came back? Answer, whoever transported
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: him to his cell and that's it, regular. Question, did
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you ever notice Mr. Epstein doing anything unusual while his
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: cell door? Other than what you described, him laying the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: mattress on the floor? Answer, no. because you're not in
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the cell block constantly, like regular population. Only like if
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you're going to conduct a round or a count, but no.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Other than the mattress on the floor, I never observed
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: him doing anything. Question, I know we touched on this
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: a little bit earlier, but I'm going to ask you again.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Were you aware that Mr. Epstein was seeing a MCC
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: psychologist following the July 23rd incident? Answer, when they came
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: into the shoe, they see a psychologist, him seeing her after,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, okay. So did you ever witness
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: any MCC psychologist conducting clinical follow-ups with Mr. Epstein? Answer, no.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of those things are morning
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: shift things. On my shift, no, I never seen anyone. Question,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: because typically didn't work the midnight shift. Answer, eight to four. Question, okay.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: And just to clarify, I think you said no to this,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: but were you as a shoe officer responsible for reporting
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: any unusual behavior by Mr. Epstein or any shoe inmate
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: to the psychologist? Answer, no. Question, was that ever a
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: part of the training that was expressed to anyone that
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: you know of? Answer, to report unusual behavior to a psychologist? No. Question,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: like for example, a shoe inmate that was on suicide watch?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Did you have to make note of that in any way? Answer, no. Question,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: did you know at the time that Mr. Epstein had
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: signed a new last will and testament on August 9th, 2019? Answer, no. Question,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to the best of your knowledge... And based on what
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you saw of Mr. Epstein while he was in the
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: shoe and while you worked there, were there any signs
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein was suicidal? Answer, no. Question, and based
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: on your experience as a correctional officer and what you
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: witnessed firsthand, do you believe that Mr. Epstein killed himself? Answer, yes. Question,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: why is that? Answer, because he was the only one
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: in his cell. Nobody else was in there. Mr. Emmer,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: during your time with MCC, were suicides a common occurrence? Ms. Noel,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: my time was very short because I was out with
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: an injury for those months, but that was the first
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: one that I was there for. And that's the thing.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: There weren't that many suicides at MCC. It wasn't like
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a place that was riddled with a bunch of inmate
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: deaths via suicide. And it's not like they haven't had
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of high-level inmates go through the doors. Ms. Fairbend, Question,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: was it maybe common is not the right word, but
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: do you think that there would have been more shoe
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: inmates in particular on Suicide Watch than inmates elsewhere in
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the MCC? Answer, correct. Question, so MCC psychologists, it wasn't
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: uncommon for them to come in and do like follow-ups
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: with shoe inmates, is that right? Answer in the morning. Question,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I'd like to reference the DOJ OIG report. I know
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: that we've talked about it a little bit. It says
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: that on August 8th, Some MCC New York staff received
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: notice that Mr. Epstein's cellmate would be transferred out of
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: the institution the following day, on August 9th. Did you
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: ever receive any notice that Mr. Epstein's cellmate would be
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: transferred out? Answer, no. Question, were you ever told that Mr.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Epstein would be getting a new cellmate? Answer, no. Question,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: were you ever told why Mr. Epstein's cellmate was being
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: transferred out on August 8th? Answer, no. Question, Did you
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: ever personally speak to anyone else that knew that his
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: cellmate was going to be transferred out? Answer, no. Question,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: were you working that day on August 8th? Answer, August 8th,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I think I worked. Question, okay. But you didn't hear
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: any conversation about that? Answer, no. Question, okay. I'd like
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: to move forward to the night of August 9th. As
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: we've been discussing, so you had the workstation in the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: shoe that you worked at, correct? Answer, correct. Question, yes.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Did you have a computer at that station while you
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: worked at the SHU? Answer, correct. Question, was it a
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: desktop or a laptop? Answer, a desktop. Question, how many
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: desktops were there at the station? Answer, to the best
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: of my recollection, two. Question, okay. Was the computer yours
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: or would you log into it? Answer, I would log
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: into it. Question, would you always log into the same computer? Answer, no,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: it could be either or. Question, was it a staff-specific
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: login that you had to get into the computer? Answer, yes. Question,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: so any staff member could log into the computer? Answer, correct. Question,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: would you complete your logs or your reports on the computer? Answer,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: no on the sheet. Question on the sheet, were there
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: any tasks that you would complete on the computer while
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you were on shift? Answer, not in the shoe. Question,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: so to be clear, nothing that you would have done
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: on the computer work related? Answer, correct. Question, okay. Did
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Officer Bonham and Thomas... I'm assuming also both had computers. Answer. Correct. Question.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Did you stay on the same desktop computer for both
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: your August 9th and August 10th shift? Answer. I don't
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: recall that. Question. Okay. While you were on shift, were
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you ever on your computer? Answer. Yes. Question. What were
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you doing on your computer? Answer. On the shift from
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: midnight to eight in the morning, I was looking at furniture. Question.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: So non-work related things. Answer. Correct. Question. Were you searching
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: images or things on Google? Answer, no. To the best
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: of my recollection, no. Question, but you said you were
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: looking at furniture. How are you doing that on your computer?
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Typed in that search. The search doesn't have to be Google.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: It could be like Bing. Any search, any search engine. Question, sure.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Were you looking at anything else besides furniture while you
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: were on the internet? Answer, so whenever you open the
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: homepage where the new loads, Epstein would be on there
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and I'd clicked onto it. Question, the search function, I
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: believe a forensic report, has done the two desktops at
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the shoe station that night. It said that the search
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: function said, quote, latest on Epstein in jail, end quote.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I know that you've been asked this before. Did you?
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: It's your testimony that you didn't physically type in latest
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: on Epstein in jail. Answer, right. I clicked on when
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I seen it load, like on the news on the desktop. Question,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: and the desktop, the forensic report of the desktop, says
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: that the latest on Epstein in jail was searched twice
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that night, once 5.42 a.m. and once 10 minutes later,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: or again 10 minutes later, at 5.52 a.m. Is that correct? Answer,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: I saw that. I learned that later on the news.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I don't recall doing that. Only what I said. Like,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: if I see it on the homepage, I click on
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it and read it. But as far as performing a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: physical search, I don't recall doing that. Yo, I don't
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: believe a minute of that. Holy shit. And if you notice...
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Her story really isn't jiving with what we've heard from
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: the other depositions. Question, when you first clicked on it,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: what did you see? Answer, well, I don't remember specifically,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: but it'd be like a headline with him, like whatever
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the headline would say. Question, so at that point, you
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: knew who Jeffrey Epstein was? Answer, at that point, yes. Question,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: and you knew that he was an inmate in the shoe? Answer, uh-huh. Question,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: were you curious in any way? Anything about Mr. Epstein?
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I guess my question is, why didn't you want to
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: look at gets cut off by Tova Noel? Oh, because
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: he's in there. Question. So Mr. Epstein was found deceased. Well,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: he appeared to be deceased in his cell at 630 a.m.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the morning of August 10th. Is that correct? So what?
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: 40 minutes after she's looking up Jeffrey Epstein and Jeffrey
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Epstein in jail? Like what? Doesn't make sense to me.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that I don't buy it, but I don't. Answer,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that I can't answer because I didn't find him. Question, okay,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: who found Mr. Epstein in his cell? Answer, Michael Thomas.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode dealing with the topic we're
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the description box.