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144 What Should I Look for In a Good C# Job? · DevQuestions with Tim Corey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Dev Questions Podcast with Tim Corey.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Join us each episode as we tackle the questions you are asking about a career in software development, understanding the industry, and new technology.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just starting out or you want to grow stronger as a developer, this is the place to get your questions answered.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's your host, expert developer and online educator, Tim Corey.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: What should I look for in a good C sharp job?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking for a job, but I need to make sure I pick the right one, not just the one that comes along.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: How do you do that well?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is a question we're going to tackle in today's episode of DevQuestions.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: This question comes from my suggestion site.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a question you want to see answered, go to suggestions.iandcorey.com, and hopefully you'll see your question answered in a future episode of DevQuestions.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, what should you look for when looking for a C sharp job?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is hard to do, but let's talk through some things to keep an eye out for and things to think about when you're evaluating a job.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And just to be clear, no job will be perfect.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Every job has its flaws.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Every job has its good points and its bad points.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: And typically, there's very few jobs in the perfect category and very few in the awful.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in some ways, it feels like there's more jobs in the awful than there are the perfect, but most jobs fit somewhere in the middle here.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And we're trying to look for how do you evaluate where it is in that spectrum.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk first about the easy things to look for.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the first one is it pays enough.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to emphasize enough here.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you are out of work and you don't have many offers, and all the job offers you do have don't pay enough or pay just barely enough, then maybe you don't have enough options here to kind of choose.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have options where you're saying, hey, you know what?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: I need, let's pick a number,$50,000 a year to have enough money to make ends meet, to be comfortable, and have a little bit of slack in my budget.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's say you have two or three job offers and they're above that line.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then that's good enough.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, if they're above that line, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on how far above, because there are other things to think through too.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you can get more money, that's great.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: More money is always good.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can always find somewhere to use it, and if not, give it away.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: But there are other things to evaluate as well.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are the other things?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, vacation time and sick time.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is important, especially in countries where these aren't government mandated.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so some countries, you get that locked in, you have a certain number of days for sick time, and you have a guaranteed vacation schedule.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: In the US, we don't.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to look at this.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I interviewed once a company and I asked about vacation time and sick time.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, well, after a year, you get a week off.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, the conversation was pretty much done because that wasn't okay for me.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I had other options, and that option wasn't a good one.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I needed to have some type of work-life balance.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And having to wait a year before even taking a single day off just didn't cut it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, with that comes their stated hours per week.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: The same company, I just had to ask the question.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, how many hours a week do you work?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the answer came back as, well, we work pretty hard around here.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't been around job offers enough, that's code for all the time.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: We work all the time.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also another big red flag to look out for do they have clear work hours?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Do they stick to those work hours?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, we'll get into stated versus what they actually do, but start with what do they state the work hours are?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: For uh, what are the perks?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do they offer perks that are helpful or nice?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I worked at companies where we got gym memberships, where you know we had time off to play games, where I could one of the jobs I work for, we could go play basketball during lunch.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: These are nice perks.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're nice, um, kind of non-tangible things, but that can be of value to you besides just your normal benefits.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then finally, for this kind of easy category is do they offer training?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I want to be clear here.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: As the employee, as an individual, you are responsible for your own education.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not on your employer, it's on you.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're responsible to make sure you get the education you need.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you can ask for it from the employer.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's great if they offer it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you may even say it's important enough, they have to offer it.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's up to you.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, you're still the guide of your own education.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that is, I only choose jobs that offer training.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: But whatever it is, don't just put it off on your employer to do for you.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: You need to make sure you're doing it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: But do they offer training?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do they offer any type of reimbursement for training?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do they um pay for I am Tim Corey courses?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I'm just off the top of my head.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, do they offer some way to make sure that you continue to move forward in your in your knowledge, in your understanding development?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: So those kind of the easy, off-the-top ways to look for, look at a job offer and say, is this a good offer?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: But let's dive deeper into things you can do to really make something stand out or not.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do the employees say?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Can you get time to talk to an existing employee?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk to a developer, talk to a person in a department and say, hey, what's your day like?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: What's what do you think of the company?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: What do you like, what do you don't like?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Go deep with them if you can.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, ask them, hey, how many hours a week do you work on average?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's always great to talk to people who are in the position or near the position of where you'll work.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it gives you a lot of insights.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I interviewed for a company once where I was going to be an IT director.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I talked to the employees without the person who would have been my boss in the room.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I gotta say, what do you think?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: What do you what do you like?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: What do you not like?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: And they were very diplomatic in how they talked.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: They were very careful in what they said, which is a red flag number one.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I could kind of just see the the uh the look in their eyes that was the uh this isn't great look.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: That gave me a great insight into maybe this isn't a good position.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got to ask deeper probing questions that kind of brought that out and found out oh, there's some things going on here that aren't exactly how the boss said they would be.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can talk to another employee, that'd be great.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you're talking to the hiring manager, ask why the position is empty.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now, hopefully you get an honest answer in that, but you want to know did the person quit or did they get laid off?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Are you creating a new position?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, was the person angry?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Did you fire them?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they can't answer specific questions about firing employees or anything negative about employees, but at least if they can let you know, why is this position empty?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you have turnover in your department?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe ask, how long have your employees been at this position?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: So what's on average, or if you have a small department, how long has everyone been, how how long has everyone been here?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you hear things like one year, six months, one year, three months, you start to question, wait a minute, okay, so why?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it you don't have any long-term employees?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is it because you just started doing this, or is it because the turnover is so high, you never keep people long-term?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or on the other hand, you might hear things like 20 years, 19 years, 25 years, 30 years.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you can ask the question, okay, I don't see anybody that's been here recently.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let me know if the person before me left because they were frustrated and they couldn't kind of break into the click that was the long-term employees.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a you know a case of embedded people that don't want to change?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it that we have long-term employees and how am I going to fit as a brand new employee?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So these are kind of things you can start to ask the questions on and kind of probe a little deeper as to what's the situation really like?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then ask this question.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is an interesting one to get real answers on.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Ask people, and if you have access to the people in the department, that's great.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: But ask, what do you do outside of work?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: What's the fun thing you do outside of work?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what you're looking for here is what are these people like?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, are they going home and doing more work?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are they totally disconnecting from work and doing something entirely different?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is there an idea of, you know, we want to give back?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the idea of, I just want to get a break?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: What is it they're trying to do?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then just, if nothing else, you learn more about the people in the department.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: But you may find out some tidbits about are you trying to escape this or are you trying to work more?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be asked to work more.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't report as hours worked.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So getting to know what people do in the department.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And again, a lot of this depends on how much access you can have to the people who are hiring you, to the people who you'd work with, to the whole department.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: The more you can get, the better.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can request that, that'd be great.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the other thing is when you're talking about the interview process, and usually this happens later on in the interview process, there may be an occasion where you have to get in front of a whiteboard and do some whiteboard coding, or you might have to do a take-home test, or you might have to.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Those, I'm not a big fan of those, but they do, they can have a place.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I would do is as you communicate to the manager about this, I would say, how does this relate to my position?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Will I be doing something like this in my position?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're a whiteboard, you probably won't be.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so if they say, well, this is a type of job that you do, and you say, okay, normally what I do is I would use IntelliSense and IntelliCode and get this syntax right.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I would use some Google to find some certain, you know, certain code blocks, or I'd use some of my code that I've written on GitHub and use some of those patterns that I've just developed in this spot.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you could talk more about how you would get those resources to the to the task you have to do.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And if your manager says, no, I want you to code this by hand and we're gonna evaluate your syntax, well, if that's the person you're working for, then they've already told you quite a bit about themselves.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you may say, you know what?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: This doesn't sound like a fit for me because I don't want to work in that environment.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a really bad experience with a hiring manager where you just clash, you don't get along well each other, and you just kind of are at cross purposes in your conversation, well, that's gonna carry through probably when you're employed.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that can kind of give you an indication of how the employment process will go.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you'll be really happy in this role, or if you're gonna be frustrated, if you're gonna be micromanaged, if you're gonna be kind of talked down to and I don't want to say abused, but treated poorly in how they treat you because of minutia, but because of things that don't really apply.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the kind of things to think through.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're kind of the deeper things to work through as you're working through is this job the right job for me or not?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot to look into, and it's hard to see into a job when you're on the outside.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: But the more you can kind of probe the edges, figure out, you know, do some sleuthing, figure out what's going on here really, the better the picture will be of the position.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Ask honest questions, look for what you get back, look for how they respond, and don't just take things at face value, but kind of verify.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: So those are some tips on how to really figure out if a C sharp job is a good one, if it's one that you're gonna fit into well, and if you know, if if you should go forward in that job.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And again, if if you're just looking for a job and you only have one offer, well, that's different than what we're talking about here.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about how to evaluate multiple jobs.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: All right, thanks for listening, and as always, I am Tim Corey.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Def Questions.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tim is committed to making it easier for you to become a developer.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you would like to help make more content like this possible, please like, subscribe, rate, and share Dev Questions.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can also send your questions to questions at IamTimcorey.com.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember, you are too smart and your time too valuable to waste it making all the mistakes Tim did.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you're ready to learn to think and code like a professional developer, head over to IamtimCore.com and enroll in a course.