Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #182: Bird Flu: The Next Pandemic or Just More Fear?

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Episode #182: Bird Flu: The Next Pandemic or Just More Fear? · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome everyone to another podcast from Beyond Labels with yours truly, Farmer Joel Salatin, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Cinta McCullough.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Today we have spent days and hours homeworking on the bird flu situation.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is shaping up to be almost a um uh a COVID 2.0, if I may use that kind of terminology.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the similarities are absolutely uh um amazing, both good and bad.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so we want to take a deep dive today into bird flu.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if you like what you hear, I'm gonna say right straight up, um, send this to your friends.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: We we have both spent a lot of time digging on this topic.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: The first thing I'm going to say is that Cena and I agree that bird flu exists.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: There are groups right now who are suggesting that bird flu doesn't exist.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um we're beyond labels.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: We don't care what you call it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: If it's a virus, it's a virus.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: If it's not a virus, it's not.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: If it's some mitochondrial aberration, it's a mitochondrial aberration.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: We don't care.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: But we don't think that it helps our side, which dares to question the conventional narrative, to deny that it exists.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: I personally know farmers who've walked into their chicken barns and a healthy flock of a seemingly healthy flock of chickens is suddenly um half of them are dead in 48 to 72 hours.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: That is something.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's not nothing.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: It is a thing.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we want to acknowledge straight up, whatever you want to call it, it is a thing.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're gonna call it bird flu on this podcast, and and uh that's how we're going to move forward with it.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to discuss PCR tests, we're going to discuss origins, vaccine leaks, we're going to deal with um uh the the the similarity with COVID, and we're gonna finish with natural remedies and even synchronicity with the the COVID situation, uh, with the COVID situation.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: In the last two years, roughly 160 million chickens have been exterminated.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: And we, by the way, will not use the term euthanized.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Euthanized is what you're seeing in all the press releases, and euthanasia is what you do to an animal that is suffering and needs to be put down.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: The thing to remember is these 160 million chickens that have been killed over the last two years, exterminated, have not been euthanized.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: The lion's share of them never exhibited a symptom of bird flu whatsoever.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: If one positive PCR test occurs in a chicken barn full of 20,000 chickens, 19,999 will be exterminated, even though they're perfectly healthy.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so the lion's share of these 160 million chickens that have been killed, have not been sick.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, they have not been owned by the farmers.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: The farmers on whose farms these birds are are owned by, primarily owned by the industry.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now, there have been some backyard flocks, yes, there have been some privately owned chickens, but by and large, the the lion's share, 95% or more of the chickens that have been killed, have not been owned by farmers.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: They've been owned by the industry.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we have layers, layers of ownership, layers of authority and responsibility, and layers disseminating the narrative.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: So you have the farmer, you have the industry, you have the regulatory boards, you have the CDC, and we've all, of course, learned to trust the CDC because of Anthony Fauci.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: We basically have the we have Anthony Fauci now, um, if you you know, in in um incognito, uh working with the bird flu situation.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: So with that beginning, I'm gonna turn it over to Cena now, who's been really um researching origins and and and and trying to get us understanding what where we are, what we're dealing with, and then we'll take it from there and let this podcast unfold.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: We are we are both very serious about this.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: We you know, we'll probably have some jokes, but uh in in my I'm just letting everybody know, in my mind, this is one of the most serious podcasts that we've done so far because we understand that it is a a national situation.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Farmers like me that have chickens are staying awake at night, concerned that some government agent is going to come and and use a PCR test and find some detritus somewhere, find it on our farm, and suddenly our chickens are taken without a warrant, with guns and SWAT teams uh confiscating them.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: And um I just got a I just got uh an amazing email from a uh an organic farm, pastured poultry farm in the South Devon coast of the UK, um who said who here's the story the worst day has come.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: We had security guards positioned on both entrances to the farm overnight.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yesterday, at least a dozen people in hazmat suits and huge helmets were setting up the cull equipment.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: And Jerry, that's the husband, spent hours with the government vet counting every chicken with no signs of disease.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the ones we'll be compensated for.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And over 4,000 hens show absolutely no signs of disease whatsoever and are positioned well away from the infected house.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: All birds will still be culled.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: There is no quarantine option.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: We cannot restock for 12 months, by which time we will have lost all of our egg customers.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Folks, this is real.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: This is real, and it brings you to tears what is happening um with these with these chickens.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so, with that introduction, Cena, um uh guide us into what you have found about the origins of bird flu.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, thank you, Joel.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a tough one to follow.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I want to start out by saying there's so much information here, so much to go through and to research that um I've really done my due diligence here.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've had this information that I'm presenting today fact-checked by multiple people, and that I want to thank quickly, Dr.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Clayton Baker, Sayre G, and Merrill Nass.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they've helped me and and also Pete Kennedy, who's provided information on the PCR cycles.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's because of this group that I have been able to collect so much information in such a short period of time.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, having said that, we're not perfect.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Joel and I know this, we are not perfect.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: If we say something that's incorrect and we find out later, we will correct it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, as of right now, this is what we know.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the what I'm gonna call the suspicious beginnings of this H5N1.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually first identified in 1996 in domestic geese in China, and then it later spread to poultry, you know, and they found it in wild birds and later humans.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: The first human H5N1 detection happened in Hong Kong in 1997.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: It infected 18 people and killed six of them.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this documented the first documented case.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: This was the first documented case of H5N1 causing a severe illness in humans.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I remember I'm old enough to remember uh Hong Kong depopulating all their chickens.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was it was a big deal because you know, the or uh Orientals and chickens, they go together, you know.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everybody has chickens.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, and when Hong Kong had to kill all their chickens, that was a that was a big worldwide uh a worldwide story.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, and it was thought to be rather strange because bird flu didn't infect people.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, before 1997, scientists believed that H5N1 was a virus that was confined to just birds.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then everything, the narrative began to change.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the 1997 outbreak in China was confirmed first by a scientist named Kennedy Shortridge.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he worked with the World Health Organization, and he had been predicting this exact same scenario for decades.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now this is where the story gets a little bit interesting and raises some red flags for me.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So Shortridge, he actually was already working with H5N1 in his lab, and his lab was located in Hong Kong, the very city where the first human case emerged.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: He had in fact been researching avian uh flu transmission to humans since the 1970s.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And once this um outbreak occurred in 1997, contamination from Short Ridge's own lab was actually suspected at that time.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's also of interest to me that that 1997 um strain that infected the humans, it actually contained genetic traces uh related to a 1983 Pennsylvania chicken virus.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it was the closest known relative um of that 1983 chicken uh virus in Pennsylvania.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that 1983 chicken virus had been studied by two other scientists.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: One was, and I'm probably gonna get these names butchered, I'm sorry.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was Yoshi Hiro, um Kawaoka, and Robert Webster.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Both of those scientists had studied gain of function research, and they were both colleagues of shortridge.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I know there's a lot of names, a lot to unpack.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So let's meet these scientists and start unpacking this information.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So for decades now, we have had a handful of scientists that have been studying how to make these flu viruses jump species, including humans.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there's three main players that I want to focus on right now, and that is Robert Webster, um, Kaura Oka, Kawa Oka, and Ron Fashier.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: They had all been studying how to make H5N1 jump to humans long before that Hong Kong outbreak occurred.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So Robert Webster, he was actually a pioneer in gain of function research.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And as I mentioned, he worked with shortridge.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: He worked with him in Hong Kong.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I found an article saying that every year Webster reportedly spent about three months working with Shortridge at the University of Hong Kong.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Webster was allegedly one of the first scientists outside of Hong Kong to receive samples of the 1997 H5N1 virus, and he received them from Shortridge, and he identified it as H5N1.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Webster is now tied to Shortridge.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: They work together, they were doing gain of function research in collaboration.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Webster was actually the mentor of Kawaoka, this the second scientist that I mentioned.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Kawaoka had studied the highly pathogenic avian flu viruses at St.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Jude's Children's Research Hospital.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: He also worked at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to remember that location, University of Wisconsin-Madison.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Kawaoka worked there.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: According to Time Magazine, how do you how do you spell that?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: His name?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's K-A W A O K A.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Kawaoka.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you think I'm pronouncing that right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that sounds right.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, I finally get one right.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: A plus on your phonetics for today, so you know.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm learning.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've been around you for years now.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're rubbing off.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Kawaoka, according to Time magazine, he was assigned by Webster.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, remember, Webster was his mentor.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So Webster assigned him to figure out how that 1983 Pennsylvania virus, the same one whose genetic material appeared in that 1997 Hong Kong strain.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: So he assigned him to figure out how that 1983 Pennsylvania virus became a quote hot pathogen.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now the third player is Ron Fauchier.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I almost don't even want to ask you if you think I'm pronouncing that one right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: That one is spelled F-O-U-C-H-I-E-R.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is that one Fauchier?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Fauchier?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that's close enough.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it it's it it appears to be French.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, so we'll name a Fauchier.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now I think hopefully everyone's gonna remember these names after we've repeated them so many times.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: So Ron Fauchier was another gain of function scientist.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: He worked with Webster's colleagues to identify the Hong Kong virus as H5N1.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now he worked at the Erasmus Medical Center in the Netherlands.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that location.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Fauchier worked in the Netherlands.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So Kawaoka and Fauchier are best known for making H5N1 more transmissible in mammals, particularly in ferrets.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: They worked a lot with ferrets.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, ferrets are the um lab animal that is used as a more of a model of the human immune system when you're doing these transmissibility studies.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Fauchier and Kawe Kawaoka worked on trying to make H5N1 more transmissible in mammals, particularly ferrets.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: They created lab-engineered H5N1 strains that could spread, Joel, get this, through the air between ferrets.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: So through droplets in the air between ferrets.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they made it transmissible in the air.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: It directly led actually to the 2014 gain of function moratorium by Obama.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: When Obama declared a moratorium on certain gain of function um research.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it was that moratorium, I have been told, was put in place because of Kawaoka and Fashir's work.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's how potentially um dangerous this work is, and that it drummed up enough concern among prominent scientists that there was a moratorium put on some gain of function research.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I set that stage.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: What were they actually doing in their lab?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just do uh one quick example of this.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2012, Kawaoka published their work and his group, they published their work and they published, so this is in the scientific literature, Joel.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody can look this up and find these studies and read them for themselves, including, let's say, enemies of America.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: So what he did was he modified the H5N1 using gain of function techniques to make it more infectious in ferrets.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: This work was done at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: He introduced four specific mutations within the H within the virus backbone of swine flu.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So within the H1N1 virus backbone of swine flu.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that swine flu is different than bird flu.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a story for you about swine flu that we'll get into in a minute.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's different.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: But what he did was he started with the swine flu, introduced mutations, and he ended up in this modified result of the H5N1 virus that actually preferred human type receptors.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: It replicated efficiently in the ferrets, and I said it was transmitted by respiratory droplets.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: What does that all mean?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: That means that he created a bird flu strain that could spread through the air between mammals.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: This work was partially funded by the NIH and the Bill and Melina Gates Foundation through a grant.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Also in 2012, Fauchier was using gain of function techniques to also modify H5N1 to make it more airborne transmissible in ferrets.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now remember, he was working in the Netherlands.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we have Kawaoka working in at the University of Madison, Wisconsin, and you have Faucier working in the in the Netherlands.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Peter McCullough and some and two of his other colleagues published an article in November of 2024 in the Poultry, Fisheries, and Wildlife Sciences.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: This article was trying to determine the origin of the highly pathogenic avian influenza H5N1 strain or clade and a genotype that we are talking about right now that's affecting all these chickens in our food supply.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Published study, I will include these in the show notes so everyone can read it for themselves.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: In this study, they have cited that the first detection of this bird flu that is tied to the current chickens being murdered and the high egg prices, the first detection of it was in the Netherlands.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: The same place where Foshi Air was doing his gain of function research, making H5N1 more transmissible among mammals and airborne or air transmissible.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was done.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: That was 20.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: When was that?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the first detection was in 2020.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: 2020.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not very long ago.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's you know, there's different clades and different genotypes.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that genotype um that we've that I mentioned, you know, at the top of my part of the show, that genotype was first discovered in Netherlands in October of 2020.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's documented in in Dr.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Peter McCullough's article.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And again, Fauchier was working in the Netherlands since um at least 2012, um, working on this gain of function research on the H5N1.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now in 2022, there was a H5N1 sample that was derived from a farmed mink outbreak in Spain, and it was tested, and this is in Dr.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Pina McCullough's article.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was tested and it was reported to be airborne transmissible in ferrets.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, again, this is a sample that was taken from a farmed mink outbreak in Spain.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was determined to be airborne transmissible in ferrets due to a mutation in the same region of the virus that Fauchier was studying.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so second piece of evidence indicating this could have been a lab leak from Fauchier's lab in the Netherlands.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the government and others are saying that this H H um H5N1 virus is naturally found in the wild birds, and those birds spread the virus across continents during migration.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So some some scientists um are questioning that narrative.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was questioned in Dr.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: McCullough's um article here, and I'm gonna present you with some of the evidence to suggest that it's a lab leak, and it may not actually be the wild birds, like we're pinning this on the wild birds, and I'm not convinced that it is.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So in Dr.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Peter McCullough's article, they state, and I quote, the hypothetical spread of a new avian influenza variant by migratory birds from Europe to North America by crossing the North Atlantic has never been documented before and therefore appears to be unprecedented.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they're saying this is an unprecedented spread, and the spread is fast.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is fast.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Compared to other versions, if you want to call them that, of this H5N1 that we have dealt with before.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: For example, the previous H5N1 that came from that initial lineage from China, it spread slowly.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it emerged in China in 1996.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And according to this article, it was not detected in Europe until 2005.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then the US in 2014.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they're saying it took 18 years to show up in America.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Slow spread.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: This current version that we're talking about spread from Europe to America in about a year.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it emerged in the Netherlands again in October 2020.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then later in the US in late 2021.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So 18 years versus a year.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this so it's a very um quick quote-unquote spread.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Very quick.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, another point of interest in this um theory they put forward that these wild birds are spreading this um highly pathogenic bird flu comes from a press release that was put out by St.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Jude's Children Research Hospital in 2016, a previous um outbreak that we're talking about now.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: This was 2016.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: In this press release, it was titled Evidence Suggests Migratory Birds Are Not a Reservoir for Highly Pathogenic Flu Viruses.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: That press release stated that scientists from St.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Jude's and the Centers for Excellence for Influenza Research and Surveillance indicate that the perpetuation of dangerous flu viruses is blocked in wild water birds.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: According to a study they conducted, the wild ducks and the other aquatic birds are natural hosts for low pathogenic flu viruses that are associated with the milder symptoms, but not highly pathogenic flu viruses associated with more serious illnesses.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the researchers suggest that the wild ducks and other aquatic birds are not an ongoing source of this highly pathogenic flu infection in uh in the domestic poultry.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: So are they are they saying not that not that they're just not a I'm just wanting to clarify here, uh, because I'm the layman, I'm the layman in this uh in this duo here.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um the the the the migratory birds, because this this is this is critical, Cena.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the entire narrative is is to hate ducks.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's the the upshot of this whole hate ducks and geese.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'll just go on record.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm philosophically, I think that any narrative that says wildlife is bad is any farming system or any narrative that says wildlife is bad is a is a wrong it's a wrong thing, however you want to define that.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's a wrong thing to to demonize wildlife.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: So are you saying that the ducks are just not a vector, or they actually they actually are not susceptible to even to even getting the high path?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the key question.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm saying is uh the role of the wild birds as these reservoirs is highly questionable at this point.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what I want to bring up is that I I think this is a narrative that can be used depending on what your agenda is, let's say.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, in June of 2024, Tom Vilsack, you know, then Secretary of Agriculture, he wrote a guest column.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he this is what he said.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um sadly, migrating birds bring H5N1 with them.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there will likely always be a threat of the disease for our poultry farmers.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's blame the birds because the migratory birds, because they're bringing this with them.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, we have this 2016 press release.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Webster, remember the guy Webster that I mentioned?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: He was involved in that, in that study that resulted in that press release where they concluded that wild ducks and other aquatic birds are not an ongoing source of highly pathogenic flu infection in domestic poultry.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Webster was part of that study where they made that determination.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing in that press release, Webster is quoted as saying the findings provide a scientific basis for the decision by officials to use culling and quarantines to stop the 2014-15 outbreak in domestic poultry.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they used it as rationale to kill the birds is what I'm saying.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the rationale to kill you're saying that's back in 2016.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um the rationale to exterminate, but the the culling, the culling process has been an industrial antidote for a long time.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the mad mad uh not mad cow, a hoof and mouth disease in in uh the UK, if you'll recall that.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh again, that was that was a culling thing.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: Sir Albert Howard showed that hoof and mouth was a was a dietary nutritional uh uh problem, not you know, not communicable.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um but the this this mass extermination as an antidote to an episode certainly predates 2016.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: He's he's simply he he's simply carrying on.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, he didn't invent he didn't invent mass culling in 2016.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: He he he just carried it forward and said, you know, just carried it forward, put it in second gear.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: That is absolutely correct.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he also said in the press statement, now research is needed to identify the mechanism that is evolved in the wild birds to disrupt the uh to disrupt the perpetuation of highly pathogenic influenza.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the wild birds have figured out how to not have you know this highly pathogenic influenza.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's why he so he's saying that they are not an ongoing source of highly pathogenic flu infection in the domestic poultry, and we got to figure out how they did that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I I find it, and I thought you might find it a little ironic, then the same press release, they're saying, you know, we got to figure out what's causing these wild birds to basically have adapted and not um perpetuate highly pathogenic influenza.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're saying, okay, the strategy kill all the all the domesticated poultry.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that's the opposite strategy.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Cena, you you've hit the you've hit my biggest frustration with the entire uh uh bird flu issue right now in the U.S.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: is the extermination of the healthy birds.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Anyone who does anything with animals or plants knows that you select you select the good ones.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the the the weak ones, the weak ones you let whatever go, die, whatever, uh, but you you breed the good ones.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, to be very specific on the chickens, wouldn't you select uh sperm and eggs from the 200 survivors in a 15,000 birdhouse?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't you select their um eggs and sperm in order to um in order to create a more robust immunological function?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I think we we've we've heard we've heard herd immunity.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well flock immunity runs the same way.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so here we've got the wild populations that nobody's um you know uh nobody's trying to fix, and they're um they're developing flock immunity.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and actually, did you hear about how in Canada ostriches were being killed uh because of the bird flu?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um so basically there was a farm um who had ostriches, and they um a flock of them were ordered to be killed after the avian flu was detected on the farm.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily, a federal court judge granted a stay of execution, and the the two uh farmers, you know, the owners of this farm, in essence, said that yes, some of their ostriches died, but now amongst their remaining birds, they lived, and now they said, quote, we're at herd immunity.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she said they had no no new deaths since January 14th, that um the birds that are who are still alive, none of them are exhibiting symptoms of illness, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um, again, this is a real life, real-time example of a farm that, in their opinion, had bird flu, and because they didn't just kill them all, they did exactly what you're saying, they let it run its course, and they kept the survivors, and now they have herd immunity, right?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: This should be more of a model of where we want to go with this, you know?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But so, okay, so that that's one point that the role of the wild birds is now questionable in my mind.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we can't just blame this on wild birds.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is one more reason why uh I'm leaning toward a lab leak.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then let me tell you the fourth um and final point as to why I am now leaning toward a lab leak, and leaning because you know, as a scientist, I never want to say 100%, right?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it seemed very obvious to me at this point.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: The earth, the earth, the earth, the earth actually might be flat.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: It just might be flat.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta leave chance for for everything, right?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but at this point, I'm like, yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, so and this is documented in Dr.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: McCullough's article as well.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: At roughly the same time that the bird flu was detected in um the Netherlands, it was also detected in South Carolina, in the United States.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I I did not know that it roughly the same time period.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, where it was detected in South Carolina in the US is about 200 miles east of the USDA's Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: That laboratory is in Athens, Georgia.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I gotta tell you, Joel, I'm gonna talk a lot about Georgia in the next few minutes in terms of lab leaks.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was pretty devastated about that since I live in Georgia now.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I, you know, it's like it just happened down the road for me.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so this lab is in Athens, Georgia.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it had begun conducting what's called serial passage experiments.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: These are similar to gain of function, okay, and they could lead to creating more infectious or deadly viruses, these serial passage experiments.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: The lab in the Netherlands that I mentioned previously collaborated closely with this USDA lab in Georgia to develop vaccines against H9 um influenza viruses.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: That collaboration means they likely shared viral samples.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is documented in McCullough's article.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: That USDA lab in Georgia had been actually conducting um this type of research in mallard ducts since April of 2021.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then in January of 2022 is when we get that new B1 genotype that was detected in Georgia, or that new genotype um detected in Georgia, that allegedly led to these um large outbreaks in Florida and other Midwestern states, uh, leading to a second, what they called a wild bird uh outbreak in Michigan.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so don't get bogged down in all the many details I'm providing.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that this second outbreak that was detected in South Carolina was about 200 miles east of the USDA's Southeast Poultry Research Lab.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: That lab had collaborated with the lab in the Netherlands, and this lab was also working on this type of research where you're changing the functionality of a virus.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and just so so so we don't lose anybody here, east is downwind.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, our our winds here, you know, in in North America, our winds come basically west to east.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: So the fact that it's east of the Athens, Georgia poultry science lab um is is is downwind.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: So if something's gonna be carried uh on the wind, uh obviously carrying it um as the wind flows, not upwind, is is uh reasonable.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So so the bottom line of this section of this podcast is that the origin looks likely to be from the USDA lab in Athens, Georgia, and also the um Erasmus Medical Center in the Netherlands.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, another piece of information that provides more substantiating evidence for that claim is that there have been lab leaks.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will say that this might surprise a lot of people, but lab leaks involving you know deadly viruses or whatever you want to call them are not rare.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: In Dr.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: McCullough's article, he cites that since 2001, more than 309 lab leaks have been confirmed.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: 309 Joel lab leaks.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's a report that was put out by the select agent program saying that there are roughly 200 lab leaks per year in the US alone.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I that is very alarming.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: If that number is true, 200 per year just in the US, it's very alarming.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I want to talk about known leaks.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: These are leaks that have been documented, they have been reported on, and we've had CDC response on.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and these involve the H5N1 strain, the one that we're talking about.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: The first one happened in 2013.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, interesting timing, 2013.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: This was a needle stick accident.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: This happened at uh Kawaoka's lab at the University of Michigan, uh, sorry, University of Wisconsin, Madison, uh, at Kawaoka's lab.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: He somebody there accidentally pierced their finger with a needle containing an engineered H5N1 strain.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the researcher was um was somewhat quarantined and treated with um high doses of Tamil flu.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: But in the report, the NIH officials said they were alarmed to learn that the university actually lacked a dedicated quarantine facility, and that prompted demands for stricter safety protocols.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there wasn't even a dedicated quarantine facility.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is a little alarming because these labs are where they're creating these, you know, pathogens that could potentially cause a pandemic, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we're learning that there's not even the right kind of safety measures that are being taken.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: So 2013 was the first one needle stick accident.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, coming on the heels of that one, 2014.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: This was a CDC contamination incident in January 2014 at the Center for Disease Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Georgia again, uh an H9N2 sample, which was which is benign, it was crossed cross-contaminated with the highly pathogenic H5N1 virus.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this was a lab error of cross-contamination.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: That contaminated sample, those samples were sent to a USDA lab, which happened to be the Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory in Athens, Georgia, that I just mentioned.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: The issue was discovered after there were unexpected animal deaths during testing.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: The contamination, most likely, based on the dates, wasn't recognized for four months.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: The CDC investigated and revealed that the contamination probably occurred because of poor lab practices, rushing and mishandling multiple strains simultaneously, or maybe they didn't, you know, wipe down a contamination one of the facilities properly, and then they worked with the next strain.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Something happened in these poor lab practices, you know, to cause this cross-contamination.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: So again, documented case of cross-contamination with this highly pathogenic pathogen sent to another lab that I just mentioned, um, was also in in Athens, Georgia.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And this incident uh was timing-wise related to mishandling of anthrax and smallpox.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: So these are these are not obviously, you know, H5N1, but I want to bring these to light so people can understand just how many leaks and the severity of leaks that are happening.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So again, that leak was 2014 in January of the H5N1 contaminated sample in June of the same year.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at the CDC headquarters again, Joel, in Atlanta, Georgia, scientists accidentally exposed at least 84 employees to live anthrax.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: They failed to properly inactivate bacterial samples before transferring them to a lower security lab.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, nobody got ill.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: The workers were given antibiotics and alleged and apparently vaccines as a precaution, and the CDC temporarily shut down um that bioterror lab.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they said they implemented stricter protocols.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but seriously, exposure to anthrax.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have the very next month in July, we have smallpox.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: There were six vials of smallpox found in some kind of storage room at the NIH campus in Bethesda, Maryland.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: They were found allegedly during a routine cleaning.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these vials contained the live smallpox virus.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: This was unexpected because smallpox had been eradicated in 1980, and it was illegal, illegal to keep any virus outside of two places in the world, the CDC and a lab in Russia.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: The vials were transferred to the CDC for destruction, and that discovery prompted a comprehensive review of pathogen storage practices at NIH facilities.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: So my point is these incidents already highlight the systemic failure in safety protocols and record record keeping.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it did spark national debate about biosecurity.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so anthrax smallpox, you know, uh problems.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: We have the the 2013 uh fingerprint um possible contamination out of Kawaoka's lab.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have the 2014 CDC cross-contamination um in Georgia.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um then we have um another one in 2019 at Kawaoka's lab again, there was um a trainee's air purifying respirator hose detached.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this was during a ferret transmission experiment in Kawaoka's lab that potentially exposed them to the engineering.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's in Wisconsin.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this so it potentially exposed them, you know, to This engineered H5N1 strain that we know from the published literature was capable of airborne transmission between mammals.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing: state and local health officials were not notified at the time.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: The university made its own determination that there was no significant exposure risk.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't consult federal oversight bodies before making that determination.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: The university delayed reporting the incident to the NIH Office of Science Policy for two months.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Two months.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And no, so that was another leak dealing with this bird flu strain, highly pathogenic strain.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to throw in one more, one last leak before we go on to the new thing.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is not directly related to bird flu, but it's still showing the concern pattern here.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh in 2008, the pharmaceutical giant Baxter accidentally combined H3N2, which is the which is a common seasonal flu.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: So H3N2 combined it accidentally with H5N1.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: They shipped that H5N1 contaminated flu vaccine material to several labs or subcontractors in Europe.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: The contamination was not discovered until early 2009 when test animals died unexpectedly.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that revealed the presence of this lethal strain of bird flu that was mixed with this human flu.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: It just so happens that in April of that year, the H1N1 swine flu pandemic emerged.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and that led to a mass vaccination program.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it just so happens that Baxter received government contracts to produce those vaccines against swine flu.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: One year prior to that, Baxter filed a patent on its H1N1 swine flu vaccine.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: A little suspicious, right?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Again, no smoking gun on that one, but the timing is a little suspicious there for me.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, this means that I'm not ready to just blame these wild birds.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they're we know that gain of function and serial research was being done.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: We know who was involved in it.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: We know the collaborators, you know, samples were most likely exchanged between them.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: We know where the outbreaks occurred initially.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: They occurred near these labs where they were doing this type of research.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Joel, what is your thought?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think there's a possibility that this was a lab leak?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: It sure sounds like it.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I I think I think the thanks, Tina.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, what a what a uh thank you.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I can say.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I think what's new to me and the way you've carved this up for us is the two the two very different uh strains.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: One very low pathogen, it's not a big deal.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: The other one, a a man-made hyper strain.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um but whether it's man-made or whatever occurs in nature, um the antidote to these kind of things has always always been adaptation.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Zach Bush talks about this all the time.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that the the ability of an organism, plant, animal, whatever, to to respond.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're not machines, we're not automobiles.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so fortunately, God has made us, made living things in a dynamic, responsive nature so that we can survive.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and to um to give to give this this human interventive um uh abuse, if you will, uh a pass, a pass in the narrative, and never mention any of the things that you've just told us.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Is is like uh is like a uh you know, it's worse than a Watergate cover-up.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's worse, you know, it's worse than um, you know, the CIA killed JFK, you know, whatever.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, name your conspiracy.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um the fact that that nobody is is connecting these dots and laying it out like this um is just uh is just not being fair, you know, not being fair to the story.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that brings us to that brings us to, well, what so if we say it's gain of function, it's not being transmitted by um wild birds.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably being transmitted in the air, um, especially from you know trucks and people and workers, and you know, I mean the the the poultry industry has all sorts of um you know feed trucks and and you know chicken transport.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, think think about it, Tina.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these these chickens are transported, goodness, uh, a hundred miles from a farm to a processing facility up the interstate.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I remember back when we had a bird flu outbreak um I don't know what, 12, 15 years ago here, they said that one feather had enough material on it to um to transmate transmit disease to a million chickens.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: One feather.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: Had enough on it to and this was the official, like the you know, the the the official government narrative.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: A million chickens.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you go you get behind one of these trucks on the interstate, there's feathers flying all over the place.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the the inner the the sides of the interstate are covered with feathers.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: So so uh um so if you look at the charts right now of the um since we started this latest kind of 2022 mass extermination process, the the number of infections are going up just on a on a 50-degree angle on a graph, uh without any abatement whatsoever.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Clearly, we're not getting ahead of it by exterminating birds.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: It it is climbing extremely and and and is doing so today, even as we speak.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: So clearly the extermination is not going.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: So if it's if it's if it's if it is transmitted on the air in aerosols, in you know, just um to think to think to think that we can cover uh all all of North America with a with a um with a sterile uh um astrodome.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it it is preposterous.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we so we have to back up by faith in the immune system.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, to me, it it's just it's just it's a natural outcome of everything you've laid out for us that we just have to back up to to that.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have much time left.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: I I would I I would like to um to have you um tell us just quickly about the the vaccine leaky, that that whole leaky vaccine kind of thing.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then then we're gonna we're gonna have to close out with some with some remedies.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is this has been really good.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want to start out by saying that this bird flu, this H5N1, um, there are two different genotypes that are currently circulating that are being reported.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the first genotype is the one that Joel has talked about, the one that is being associated with the infections in the um chickens that's leading to um all of these um chickens being murdered um and higher egg prices.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is the genotype B3.13.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the one that's only caused mild illnesses in humans.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a second genotype, which is genotype D1.1.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the genotype that is associated with the death.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, Joel, we reported on how there was a patient over the age of 65 who died in Louisiana.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: That patient had underlying health conditions, was hospitalized after exposure to um sick and dead birds and backyard flock.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: That um that subtype or that genotype was the D1.1.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: The USDA is still saying that pasteurization of milk inactivates uh the H5N1, and that if you cook meat and cook eggs, you know, properly to the proper temperature, it inactivates it.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'll try to, I know as I was telling you, this is why it's taken so long to go through all this information.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's dense.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a lot to cover.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try to just do the highlights then.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um, as we previously mentioned on another podcast, there are um existing bird flu uh vaccines.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um in 2007, the FDA issued the first license for a vaccine against bird flu in the name of pandemic preparedness.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the federal stockpile has two traditional bird flu vaccines.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: The CDC has developed the H5 candidate vaccine virus.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying that uh these could be used to produce vaccines for people if needed, and that it would provide good protection.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not so sure that it actually will.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's some previous research that's indicating that these H5 viruses are poorly immunogenic in people, and that vaccination may require two doses to induce a protective response.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've ever heard that before.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, then so then uh moving on to mRNA-based vaccines, right?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: These are the ones that people keep asking questions about.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: So Moderna was already in the very early stages of creating the mRNA bird flu vaccines for humans.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, by 2024.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: They were already doing that.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: The government partnered with Moderna in 2023 to develop the mRNA bird flu, uh a bird flu vaccine.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: In July of 2024, Health and Human Services provided$176 million to them for mRNA-based pandemic influenza vaccine development against the H5 influenza virus.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in February of 2025, Moderna announced an additional 590 million from the government to fast track the efforts for H5 and H7 avian flu viruses.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying on Moderna's site, it says these mRNA vaccines are targeting the currently circulating strain, the H5N1 strain, and they're expanding to address up to five additional subtypes in a phase three clinical trial.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now it is interesting, this could be coincidental, but it's interesting to note that Moderna's commercial commercially approved product, that was their mRNA product against COVID, that uh was seeing plumbing sales.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when the uh Biden administration gave them almost$600 million uh to develop the mRNA vaccine against avian flu in humans, even though the risk of serious illness is still currently low.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: So again, maybe it might be just a coincidence, but it raised a little red flag for me.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I've in my research, I saw that the FDA has licensed um just a few bird flu vaccines.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um one of them, and and I'll I'll try to go through this just very quickly.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was um Audena, and it was approved in 2020.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, this one was approved for people six months of age and older.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Six months.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is for people who are at risk of uh exposure to bird flu.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And in the in the pamphlet, uh like the product insert, it said that there were serious adverse um events that occurred, including um 11 deaths in the experimental group compared to one in the placebo, but they said that these um were assessed as not being related to the vaccine.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um in April of 20 of 2007, there was a vaccine approved by the FDA again for H5N1 influenza.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: This one was manufactured by Sonofi Pasture.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: They tested just 103 subjects.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this was this was approved.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: They tested just 103 subjects.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Four of them had serious events occur, including death.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: So one had death, one had um monoralgia, one had a cerebral vascular event, and one had breast cancer.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: The in this pamphlet in the report, it said that they were all considered unrelated to the vaccine.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um now, uh, so that's where we stand in people.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's go to cows.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I learned something new.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: Last time we reported that the USDA in February of 2025 issued a conditional license to um zoetis, zoetis, to produce the bird flu vaccine for chickens.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: The current chairman of the board of that company was a member of the Pfizer Senior Leadership Team.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do also know, I found this out that there's a researcher at the University of Pennsylvania who worked with the mRNA vaccine pioneer and Nobel Prize winner, Drew Wiseman.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they worked to create an mRNA vaccine to help what they say manage this outbreak in birds and cattle in the US.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that was according to a press release in May of 2024.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that is very concerning, so we so from this information already, we know that they're developing uh vaccines.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: But on the USDA's website, there's actually a CVB notice, it's 24-13, indicating that cows in a field study are being inoculated with experimental vaccines for H5N1.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it appears the FDA may be allowing those cows to enter the food chain.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm on their website and it's saying it's saying studies that are limited to non-viable, non-replicating vaccines do not cause virus shedding.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Vaccinated cattle will not be trans will not transmit virus to other animals, milk, meat, people, or into the environment.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, these cattle and their products do not present a risk to human health and will stay in normal production.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this was new to me that I found out that these cows, some cows in these tests, in these field trials are being inoculated with experimental vaccines.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, very briefly.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is my understanding as well.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we talked about this on the last podcast about the leaky vaccines and how these are leaky.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're not sterilizing vaccines, they're leaky.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we mentioned how that can cause more virulent, more transmissible maybe strains to actually develop.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to read off a couple um science, uh scientific publications, their titles that I have found that are substantiating this claim that vaccination, mass vaccination is literally just it's not literally, it's not going to work.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kicking the can down the road.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we mentioned how there's a 2025 study in science reporting that vaccinating against the highly pathogenic H5 subtype of bird flu may actually be driving viral evolution.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: We mentioned that last time.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: We also mentioned that in 2005, the World Health Organization themselves, these officials warned that mass vaccination programs could potentially spread the disease by allowing infected but asymptomatic birds to move unknowingly.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: In 2005, in the British Medical Journal, there is a study titled Vaccinating Poultry Against Avian Flu is Contributing to Spread.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: There is a 2012 article in archives of Virology titled Evolution of Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza, H5N1 viruses in Egypt, indicating progressive adaptation.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: And Egypt, I will add, is one of the countries that has done mass vaccinations.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Another study saying that vaccination may be influencing the virus's evolution, leading to faster mutation rates and greater genetic diversity, you know, including problems that came out of a 2011 study.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: There was um, and I'll just conclude with one more study.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: This one was also talking about the vaccine limitations in Egypt that I mentioned.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what it said the decision to use mass vaccination against bird flu in Egypt was taken as an emergency measure, right?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've heard this before, and this this has happened now in the US, they've already declared this you know, emergency.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but three years on, the impact on disease control of the vaccination in Egypt has been very limited.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: Despite the continuous vaccination of poultry, basically against bird flu, poultry outbreaks and human cases are reported regularly.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so other and other countries have done this, Egypt in particular.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: The data is in, this is published in the scientific literature, it's not working.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right now, right now, uh let's see.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: There are four there are four nations in the in the world that um that that routinely vaccinate poultry against H5N1.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_03: They are China, France, Egypt, and Mexico.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the four countries right now in the world that routinely vaccinate um poultry against H5N1.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: And and they're not having any better, they're not having any any positive results.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there's there's there's there's not a a measured uh positive result in those in those areas.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: None of them are.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this let me add in real fast what Pete Kennedy shared about the PCR testing and the cycles.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: On the previous podcast, you and I talked about um reports from like an Iowa State vet saying that um they're using 40 cycles.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: You have reported yourself on Massachusetts say that any test over was it 30 cycles is of no value.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: 30 cycles.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Pete Kennedy um sent to me the FDA guidance document calling for the PCR test to be set at 45 for bird flu bird flu testing.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: 45, Joel.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I want to say um it's let's not demonize PCR itself.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I have a lot of friends who use PCR.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that you know, I'm not here to debate that PCR testing itself is bad.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, PCR has uses, but like practically any test that I've ever worked with in the scientific community, in the lab setting, you can abuse the test, right?
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to know how to use it.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know the limitations of each test.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's becoming clear to some of us the PCR has a limitation.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can't cycle up.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just keep cycling up.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and there is there are people, scientists in, you know, like you said, Massachusetts, that are coming out and saying 45 is just too many cycles.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, you're going to get false positives.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a new piece of information that we got from Pete Kennedy.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kennedy.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to say on the heels of this, and then and then let's close out with quick the similarities.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: But on the heels of this, Joel, I don't know if you saw this.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: February 21st headline another pandemic scare as scientists discover new coronavirus in China.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: So here we go again.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: It says another coronas fear to be powerful enough to spread through humans has been discovered in China.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was from researchers at Wuhan Institute of Virology.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: They detected the new strain living within bats.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: They said it has striking similarities to the pandemic virus, sparking fears that history could repeat itself just two years after the worst was declared over.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: The new virus is even closer related to MERS, which is a deadlier type of coronavirus that kills up to a third of the people it infects.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: They said that the tests in their lab are showing that it can infiltrate human cells in the same way that COVID, um the COVID-2 virus could.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying that there's a high risk of spillover to humans, either through direct transmission or facilitated by intermediate host.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there is no vaccine against the virus, at least not yet, until our government pays somebody to create some vaccine.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the newest one coming on the heels of this.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: More, more fear.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's all just be afraid because now it's chickens and now it's coming for us humans.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: And blame the wildlife.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, the takeaway from that.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: Jill, do you have some anything you want to add before um I go quickly through this point by point of the COVID playbook?
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, I I I do think that we should.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's number one.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do that.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and they're not even being explored.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: And number two, we have a we have a massive um a roundup developing.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there are some places now, well, the CDC is now giving fifty dollar gift certificates to bovine veterinarians to to test.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um so just think about this from a from a perverse standpoint.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um that the veterinarians are being uh whatever incentivized.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, incentivized, but recruited, if you will.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: They're being recruited um to join to join this this um this this espionage deal um on backyard flocks, on individual cows, on on farms.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it reminds me of the Russian the Russian uh phrase, you know, find me the man, I'll show you the crime.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: And and you know, if you if you look hard enough, um if you look hard enough, you can find something.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's where you're talking about abuse of the test.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if you if you ramp this thing up far enough, you're gonna find something.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we already know that the cycles of the of the approved FDA USDA test is fraudulent.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_03: So we already know that.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then the vets are being incentivized to join the the collusion uh to try to uh find this stuff.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: So um, so that that's very that's very concerning to anybody that has chickens, you know, that that that that that you know they can just come in at the point of a gun and and take your chickens without a warrant, without anything, just just take them, and you and you have no recourse.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um that that's a that's that's a very disheartening thing.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but there are natural remedies.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Can you want to go through a few of those?
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's yeah, go ahead.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so one that we're all familiar with familiar with is quercetin.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I I mean, we became familiar with this in COVID, right?
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked in the literature to see is there a connection between quercetin and bird flu, um, you know, an influenza A.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there is.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So here's just of three studies that I pulled, just three.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's more.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: How do you spell that, Zena?
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Q U E R C E T I N.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So Quercetin.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this one, the study is titled Quercetin as an antiviral agent inhibits influenza A virus entry.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: In this study, it said it shows that quercetin inhibits the entry of H5N1 virus, the one we're talking about, um, in a pseudovirus-based drug screening system.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So here's one already saying that quercetin can help.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: The second one efficacy of quercetin nanoparticles as a new antiviral against H5N1 influenza virus replication.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and here's a quote saying that the study determined uh the safe dilution of the quercetin nanoparticles that's needed, and that quercetin nanoparticles could be used as a new promising inhibitor for H5N1, basically, you know, influenza, and is expected to be one of the top candidates as antiviral against influenza viruses in the near future.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Third one, a nutritional supplement formula for influenza A, H5N1 infections in humans.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this was in Science Direct.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: This the quote is this the the key mediators.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this was this was a formulation and it involved quercetin.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It also had selenium, vitamin E, glutathione, and resveratrol.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: These should all be sounding similar now to our listeners, right?
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about these before related in relation to COVID.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the key mediators in this formulation, um, taken prophylactically and throughout the duration and recovery of an H5N1 infection, the nutritional supplement formula may aid humans infected with H5N1 influenza to survive with a reduced likelihood of major complications and may provide a relatively low-cost strategy for individuals as well as government, public health, medical, health insurance, and corporate organizations to prepare more prudently for an H5N1 pandemic.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's written on the wall right there.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: The formula is right there in the scientific literature.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as you know, uh I watched the documentary put on homeopathy put out by the Children's Health Defense, which was fantastic.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm a certified master herbalist, but I'm not a homeopath.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But after watching this documentary and doing some research on it, my children and I are now going to study more on homeopathy.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know Dr.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Tom Cowan has talked about homeopathy in relation to structured water and the memory of water.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is fascinating.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we can have, I want to have a whole podcast on homeopathy so people understand just the depth of research that has been done and published in the scientific literature that's that has substantiated that homeopathy is a remedy that can work on some acute and chronic conditions.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: But in this particular case, this documentary talked about how homeopathy has been used successfully in livestock and agriculture.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's being used now.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_00: It has been used to decrease the need for antibiotics and other medications, decrease mastitis in cows, uh, decreased incidence and um increased recovery from milk fever, increased crop yields and nutrient content.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they simply just add this remedy to the water, like they do for some chicken vaccines.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_00: The part that I found applicable here, really interesting, is how homeopathy has been used historically to combat um different kinds of um disease conditions, like um epidemics, for instance.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one way that it gained so much popularity, even was when we had these outbreaks.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, um typhus in 1813, you had a 30% mortality rate with conventional treatment versus a 1% mortality rate with homeopathy.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Cholera in 1831, it had a 59% mortality with conventional versus 9% with homeopathy.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Influenza of 1918, 28% mortality with conventional treatment versus a 1% with homeopathy.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, diphtheria in 1862 had 83% mortality with conventional treatment versus a 16% with homeopathy, and yellow fever had a 50% mortality with conventional versus 6% with homeopathy.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, some of these are thought of as viral and some are bacterial, right?
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it crosses both of those um those aspects.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these stats are largely from the 1800s, and we have modern medicine now that has made some, you know, arguably some advances.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But my point here, if you even take that out, just look at the success rate of homeopathy alone.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is truly remarkable.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to our friend Dr.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle Perrot, who connected me with one of the most prominent homeopathic um practitioners that we have, Dana Ullman.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what he said, he sent me many different high-quality studies published in the literature showing that there's a well-known homeopathic um remedy that has been shown to work in these situations.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm probably gonna butcher the name.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's called uh, it's called Ocillococinum.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oscillo like osilococcinum.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't I just spell it for you?
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you can pronounce it.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's O S C I L L O C O C C I N U M.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Osilococc.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how you would say it?
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was oscillococcinum.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm close.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is a mouthful.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know that bad because it even stumped you a little bit.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's another one.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we have supplement here um that's been shown scientifically to work, and we have a homeopathic remedy.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have some friends, you know, who are using some herbal remedies um in combinations, but we have the point is we have holistic approaches to this.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's a there's another one that I'll throw in the pot, and that's hypochlorith.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's it's a it's a drinkable, uh, drinkable sanitizer.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's being used in, for example, um, you know, uh ecological organic slaughterhouses in lieu of you know chlorine and and things like that.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_03: But um and and even to like to to dredge chickens in to you know meet um government inspection requirements for s for uh sanitation.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and you can drink this stuff.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you know it's a it's a pretty amazing uh product.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and and there have been there have been some some anecdotal stuff done.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I'm I'm in the industry, so I know people who've used it, who had some sick birds, did the hypochloris, and and it just knocked it right out uh of the remaining.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, these were people that had privately owned birds, did not contact the government, you know.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm in an underground here, you know, and so I know people who bird flu is a thing.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Bird flu came in, they didn't go to the state.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_03: They just said we're gonna handle this ourselves, administer the hyperchloris in the drinking water, boom, knocked it right out.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, so that's anecdotal, but it's it's it's gorilla, you know, it's gorilla anecdotal.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, if the government finds out about those kinds of things, they go crazy.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, there there are lots of different remedies.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Whoo, we are really over time.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, one of let's let's close this up.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_03: You you had you had some um some some uh covet bird flu um consistencies that you wanted to close out with.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Let's close out with that and and and let it let it be for this for today.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let people just ruminate on it, you know, and and send us your questions, um, concerns, and we'll try to get to all of these.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we're learning about this together.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, this what I want to do, these seven-point side-by-side comparisons came from Dr.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Clayton Baker, who I've recently met.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have a great deal of respect for him.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: He wrote an article published in Brownstone Institute called Bird Flu is a rerun of the COVID playbook.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: He gave these seven um succinct points, and which I will cover right now.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So these are what happened in COVID and what's happening now with H5N1 bird flu.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Point number one is that over many years, bioweapon scientists under the guise of pandemic preparedness genetically manipulated uh some kind of virus to make it more transmissible and virulent in humans.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, he's saying they created a bioweapon.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Same point for both.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: That happened with COVID, and now, as I just laid out for you in great detail, that's uh what happened in what's happening in bird flu.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Point number two.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, they also developed and patented technologies for vaccines, right?
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's happened in both.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, they created the countermeasure to the bioweapon.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's happening in both COVID and bird flu.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Point number three, in late 2009, the lab manipulated coronavirus by weapon, SARS-CoV-2 was leaked from a lab.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we have um agencies in our own government who have come forward and said this is the most likely uh scenario.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they've confirmed this, and Rand Paul is leading the charge to confirm this as that has confirmed this as well.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that happened in COVID.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening now?
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_00: As I laid out, there were leaks coming from the laboratory in Georgia, and I mentioned the other one abroad.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Point number four.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_00: While the countermeasure vaccines were being rushed into production, the public health authorities took advantage of the lab leak by denying that it was occurring.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, they would simultaneously coerce governments to impose lockdowns and other civil rights violations on the human population.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that was in COVID.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening in the bird flu side?
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_00: While the countermeasure vaccines are being rushed to production, the public health authorities are taking advantage of the lab leaks by denying the leaks are occurring and simultaneously coercing our government to impose mass slaughter of farm animals, creating food shortages for the human population.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I will also say, in terms of how he mentions the COVID lockdown, the I think it was the New York City, maybe it was the mayor.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't quote me on that.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_00: But over in that area, they had shut down those outdoor, um, you know, like the like the the outdoor places.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Bert, uh uh chick chicken auctions, uh live, uh live, live auctions.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_00: So those have already been shut down.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so point number five.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_00: To perpetuate the lockdowns during COVID, the public health authorities performed indiscriminate PCR testing that generated a lot of false positives.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_00: In bird flu, what's happening?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: To perpetuate the mass slaughter and worsen food shortages, the public health authorities are performing these PCR testing.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And as we found out from Pete Kennedy, um, the cycles that they're using are likely generating false positives.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, same narrative.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Point number six the authorities use this excessive testing along with mediated, uh, sorry, media-generated fear mongering and government abuse of power to prolong the lockdowns and civil rights abuses.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_00: In bird flu, what's happening?
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're using the testing, they're using fear mongering, which we've talked about.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people I know think that these millions of birds that have been murdered were all tested positive.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people I know think that.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's a lot of fear mongering.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the report that I just said about oh, another pandemic scare.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: They discovered a new coronavirus in China.
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So fear mongering that's prolonging the slaughter of the animals and the food shortages.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, final point, point number seven.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_00: The lockdowns and the civil rights abuse during COVID were used to blackmail the population.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is Dr.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Baker's wording.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Blackmail the population into mass acceptance of the vaccines into their own bodies in exchange for a return to normal life.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, I remember a lot of people who I knew said, I'm just gonna get the vaccine so I can travel again.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just I need to get the vaccine so I can go eat at a restaurant again, I can go back to work again, or my kids can go back to school again.
• 1:24:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was this exchange for what he is calling here a return to normal life.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_00: It what's happening in the bird flu, the slaughter of the animals, the food shortages are being used, the black male population into a mass acceptance of the vaccination of our food supply in exchange for return to normal life, dropping egg prices, right?
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like not having the shortages anymore.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when he when Dr.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Baker laid these out side by side, I said, this is clear.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is a this is clear.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's, you know, let's not be duped again.
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Eyes wide open this time.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the similarities.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that what I walked you through with the origin story was laborous, but I'm hoping that that paints the picture for everybody filling in some of these pieces, missing pieces of the puzzle about what is potentially happening here.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, uh Cena, I I think the way you laid that out went more like a like a John Grisham, uh, like a John Grisham Who-Done It thriller.
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah, this is this is uh profound and powerful.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, everybody, thank you for staying with us through this.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_03: I know we went way over time, but uh, in my opinion, this has been one of our most um powerful, profound, and critical uh real-time uh podcasts.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I didn't want to cut it off prematurely.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to get it all out there so you had it in one place, and um and and we will see how this story unfolds going forward.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it is not over.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, um what what it looks like is that in the bird flu situation, equivalent to COVID, we are only in the like the the June 2020 stage of this.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and and it is it is not abating, it is not going away, and nothing that the government is doing is changing the trajectory of more and more and more uh exterminations and s and uh um slaughter.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_03: So um my heart breaks for the chickens, my heart breaks for the farmers, my heart breaks for the immune system of our culture, and um and and we are here to get that story out.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being with us.
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna ask a question today.
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh let's just I think we're all saturated with information.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Saturated, yes.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Zina.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think we are.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_03: But um, thank you for being with us, and we look forward to visiting with you again next week with another Beyond Labels podcast.