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Inside The Data: Analytical Evidence To Support More Jordan Davis Usage As Pass Rusher? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Hello, welcome back to Inside the Data. On Inside the Birds,
0:13
I'm Jeff Motion. Of course, when we're talking about data
0:15
and analytics and metrics, that means we got our man
0:18
Sam Finkel, or analytics expert with us for yet another
0:22
mail bag. And the really cool thing is we've had
0:24
several questions submitted to us, so please continue to submit
0:28
your questions inside the Birds at gmail dot com, direct
0:31
them to Sam and be as analytically specific as possible,
0:35
which brings us Sam to the two questions we're going
0:38
to ask. We've had them in the queue, as they say,
0:41
for quite a bit here. They required a lot of
0:44
number crunching on your part, and they also required you
0:48
and I to pick apart the parts of the question
0:50
that are actually, you know, answerable through data and analysis
0:56
and all the work that you put in. So I'm
0:58
very excited to go into both of these questions. I
1:00
think our listeners are going to really appreciate. They will,
1:03
I know they will the work that you put in
1:05
to get the detail on both of these questions. And
1:08
of course, for those who are watching at home, when
1:12
we do get into the visual element of it, I'll
1:14
share the screen blow it up for our YouTube watchers
1:17
and Sam when for those who are listening, well, we'll
1:20
make sure you do your best to you know, be
1:23
ear pleasing along with I pleasing. Well, I've always been
1:26
told I have a face for podcasts anyway, so podcast
1:31
so we like to please the ears more than the eyes.
1:34
Speaker 2: Definitely, I wouldn't agree with that, Jeff, I don't know.
1:37
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you all right, So let's get right
1:42
into our first question that you and I have kind
1:45
of been discussing behind the scenes on how we would
1:47
attack this for a little while, and I'm what I'll do.
1:50
Sam Is read the question and we both agreed that
1:53
some of this is just answerable with context that I
1:55
can give, and then the meat and potatoes, thealytics stuff
2:00
I'll throw to you. So bear with us. It's a
2:03
little bit of a long winded question. We usually give
2:06
the question ask I forget who the name of the
2:09
person you have? Do you remember the name so we
2:11
can give this guy some person some props. It's okay
2:14
if you don't have it on you.
2:15
Speaker 2: I thought I added it, but I must have deleted
2:17
when I deleted some of the other stuff.
2:19
Speaker 1: No worries. I just want to make sure that this person.
2:21
Speaker 2: How about this when you read it at the end,
2:23
I'll say who it is, I'll get I'll find it
2:25
while you're reading it, all right.
2:27
Speaker 1: I might even be able to find it faster than
2:29
you though. That the wonderful thing about it's Steven. Why,
2:33
by the way, see how fast I got Yeah, you
2:37
know this as an analytics person, a Google search is
2:40
the fastest way to anything, right, a Gmail search? All right?
2:44
So again, please send you your questions to inside the
2:48
Birds at gmail dot com and direct them to Sam.
2:51
And we'll continue to do this for as long as
2:53
we can. So this question came from Steve. It was
2:55
a long winded one, and I'm going to paraphrase for people. Basic.
3:00
He said he's been listening to discussions about getting more
3:03
production out of Jordan Davis as if sacks are only
3:07
the only thing that matters, and then he writes, maybe
3:10
it does for dollars. Well, no, it's not the only
3:13
thing that matters. But yes, that the interior and edge
3:16
lineman who get the most pressures and sacks, sure they
3:19
get the most money. And Sam, you know this. When
3:22
the Eagles traded up to draft Jordan Davis that high
3:25
I think fourteenth overall. Even Hall E. Rosmann said this
3:27
at the press conference. You need to develop into a
3:30
three down lineman. So when it's about your draft status
3:34
and what's expected for you, and to be a three
3:36
down lineman, you do have to be a part of
3:38
the four man rush, which Jordan Davis has not been
3:41
a part of. So Stephen continues to say, how can
3:45
Jordan Davis get more sacks if he's only playing on
3:48
the rundowns, which is a great question, and then he says,
3:51
when Jordan Davis isn't a five man front, who are
3:54
the other linemen? Is he playing nose tackle? What technique
3:56
he's playing? And I can answer that as yes, Jordan
4:00
Davis mostly plays in a five man front. It's mostly
4:03
on first and second down when the other team's gonna run.
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And when he's in the five man front, he is
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in the position called the zero technique or also known
4:10
as the nose shade, which is either directly over the
4:14
center or slightly over the center. The bottom line is
4:16
the middle guy out of five. Now, last year the
4:20
two guys that flanked him were Jillen Carter and Milton Williams,
4:24
And then you had your two edge guys, could be
4:26
Nolan Smith, Brandon Graham, whoever, right, Josh Sweat. This year,
4:30
we're looking at Moro Jomo taking that Milton Williams spot.
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So when they want to stop the run and they're
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in their base five man front, the nickel corner, which
4:39
is Cooper de Gen comes off the field. Jordan Davis
4:42
is on the field and it's Jordan Davis surrounded by
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Jalen Carter on one side, Moroo Joemore or the other, and
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then your two outside linebacker slash edge rushers as your
4:52
five man front. When they get into pass defense and
4:56
they think the opponent's are going to pass, Jordan Davis
4:58
comes off, Cooper to Gen comes in. And what the
5:02
numbers showed last year, Sam, is that Cooper de Gene
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was in on eighty percent of the snats when he's
5:07
first started Week six to the end of the year. Right,
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So clearly what we know about Vic Fangio, Sam right,
5:13
is that he's playing mostly nickel defense and Jordan Davis
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is not a part of it because he's not in
5:18
the four man rush. Anything to add to that.
5:21
Speaker 2: No, I totally think that's a great synopsis of his role.
5:26
The only other thing that I'm actually I might add
5:28
is we still don't know exactly how Dejene's going to
5:31
play when he's not in that nickel role. That is
5:34
subject to change, and I'm sure you have. I mean,
5:36
I know you've talked about it in the past, but
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I just thought it'd be relevant to bring up here
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right now.
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Speaker 1: Right so there is an opportunity. Sam is pointing this out,
5:43
and it's a really good point this year that Cooper
5:45
de Jean and Jordan Davis would be on the field
5:48
in the same defense. It would still be base. There
5:52
would be no nickelback or slot corner, but Cooper de
5:55
gene would play on the outside opposite Quinnon Mitchell, all right,
5:59
or because Vic Fangio has just thrown all these curves
6:03
ass or he might be playing safety next to either
6:07
Drew mccouba or Red Blanket Ship and then you have
6:10
your normal to outside corners. But the point is that
6:12
would only happen in a base look with no slot corner.
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Once they go back to nickel, the plan for now
6:19
is to have Cooper to Gene as the nickelback, and
6:21
then somebody else goes to the outside corner, where somebody
6:24
else goes to that safety spot. So Sam, here's where
6:27
you come in, because Steven asks, I would love to
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see analytics from last year showing the number of first
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downs that Jordan Davis played and the number of second downs,
6:37
the number of downs when Davis and Cooper the Gene
6:40
were both on the field, which we just said was
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very limited. And was Jordan Davis in on any goal
6:44
line plays? Well, yes, because that's run defense and he's
6:48
a big, huge man and they stick him in a
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lot and run on goal line.
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Speaker 2: Only eleven times on the line?
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Speaker 1: Really, is it only out of how winnie do you have?
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How many times they were in goal line?
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Speaker 2: But he had four hundred and thirty snaps on the
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year and eleven of them were goal line. I was
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a little that's really interesting.
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Speaker 1: I wonder how many of those goal line were not
7:11
first in goal like cause they were they would be
7:13
a nickel in those situations.
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Speaker 2: Then yeah, if he was in.
7:15
Speaker 1: Goal and that's that's pretty interesting. So look, that's why
7:18
we have here here. So I'm gonna let you get
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to the root of the question, which is, you know,
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the analytics of him when when he was on the
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field last year. And then also in the spirit of
7:29
the question did he show any improvement last year in
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his limited snaps to be I don't know. I guess
7:38
to maybe part of the four man rush this year.
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Speaker 2: So take it away, Yeah, would you mind sharing the screen?
7:43
I can.
7:44
Speaker 1: I will do it right now.
7:45
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, and here we go. So I'm gonna
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be honest. We're gonna be taking listeners and viewers through
7:56
a little bit of a journey through this question and
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fun just because there was a lot to do with these,
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so it's a little bit. We're gonna be doing a
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little storytelling. We're gonna go all over the place. So
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this first chart, it was first table right here is
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the regular and postseason statistics for Jordan Davis in the
8:14
twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five year. So it
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goes through every game and it says how many snaps
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he played per game. That RD, which is the next
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one after snaps is run defense snaps, and then the
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next one is pass rush snaps. And what's interesting is
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if you look at the bottom, he had two hundred
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and twelve rush defense steps, run defense snaps and two
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hundred and seventeen pass defense. And what's interesting is if
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you look at those numbers. Two twelve plus two seventeen
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does not equal four to thirty. It equals four twenty nine, right,
8:49
And so I had to get to the bottom of that.
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And you know what it was during the Cincinnati game.
8:54
There was one snap that he was accounted for in
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pass coverage. Oh my god, that's where they dropped him back.
9:01
I probably saw it watching tape and fell off my chair. Yeah,
9:06
So I just wanted to point that out. That is
9:08
why there that doesn't add up. But it is very
9:10
interesting that he had one pass coverage snap.
9:13
Speaker 1: You're going to force me to go back onto the
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all twenty two and find that snap and see what
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he did. I woulder if he accidentally dropped him, It's
9:23
totally possible.
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Speaker 2: So this all this was generated by NFL next Gen Stats,
9:28
and so that's where these are sourced from.
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Speaker 1: Uh.
9:31
Speaker 2: One of the things I actually had the pleasure of
9:33
interviewing Kurt Warner this week, and I just wanted to
9:36
say that really quickly. And one of the things that
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he said that really stuck out to me, and it's
9:40
actually changed the approach I do and inside the data
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is he told me, you're to be credible, you need
9:45
to watch the data, watch the snaps before you look
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at the data. So I watched a lot of Jordan
9:49
Davis for this just to you know, be be credible
9:53
and have the stats should back up what you see
9:55
on tape, and and I think it does to a
9:57
good extent. And that's the only reason I bring that
9:59
up now because that's kind of what I did with
10:01
the process of this question. Okay, So then if you
10:05
look basically, you'll see in the next chart a more
10:09
a better visual of how his breakdown. But basically, you know,
10:13
we'll look at the aggregate stats. You know, thirty three
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tackles on the year, three sacks, seven quarterback pressures, time
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to sack of four point four to three, time to
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pressure of two point eight and a get off of
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one point one eight. Again, get off is just how
10:27
fast you cross the line of scrimmage. A good defensive
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interior defensive lineman is going to be at one second,
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so he's slower than it's still average where he's at,
10:39
but it's nothing special time to sack for interior defensive line.
10:44
Usually at that point it's a coverage sack like four
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over four point two four point three, it's a coverage
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sack at that point, not always, not necessarily. I watched
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some of the film, like the one the four point
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six to one in the Conference championship against Jayden Daniels.
10:59
That was not a coverage sack. He beat them. I
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watched that. Uh, just d Daniels extended to play and
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just ran back. That That's why I said, It's not always,
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but generally that's what you see when you see something
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like that.
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Speaker 1: Okay, how about the one from the super Bowl at
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four five seven? That one was Davis had a sack
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in the Super Bowl. How did I forget that?
11:20
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, that one. So Mahomes stepped up into
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the pocket. Uh, it was like basically it was kind
11:31
of a coverage sack, I'd say. I mean, there were
11:33
guys a little bit open, especially on the like near
11:36
the flat, but and I think Mahomes was trying to
11:39
step up to make the play into the flat. But
11:42
Jordan Davis made the sack, and that that one was
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more of a coverage sack I think than I thought.
11:47
He dominated it against Washington on the sack that he
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had versus the one he had against Kansas City, So.
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Speaker 1: We might as well do have Did you watch the
11:54
New Orleans one where he had three point eight one
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time to sack.
11:57
Speaker 2: Uh I did watch that one. I don't remember. I
12:00
remember because the three point eight one, I you know what?
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I did see that one. He did beat He destroyed
12:06
the center. He destroyed the center, I remember.
12:07
Speaker 1: I remember correctly. Ruiz was hurt. They had their and
12:11
their guard was hurt. They had their third string center
12:13
in that game.
12:14
Speaker 2: Yeahah, he absolutely destroyed him. I remember that. And Carr
12:17
didn't stand a chance.
12:19
Speaker 1: Right, I think it was McCoy. Is that no, McCoy
12:21
was the guard who was also hurt. I think Ruiz
12:23
and McCoy were also. I forget the name of the guy. Sure,
12:26
go ahead. So what is the league average for an
12:29
interior lineman on time to sack? Just if you have that,
12:33
I don't know.
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Speaker 2: I don't have that, But if I had to guess
12:35
for interior defensive linemen, it would be closer to three. Okay, yeah,
12:40
I mean that's that would be usually three is where
12:43
like if the quarterback doesn't get rid of the ball,
12:44
typically it's bad or bad luck unless you can extend
12:47
the play. Got So I would say it's probably around that.
12:51
Speaker 1: All right, good stuff? What I want to clarify because
12:55
we have two hundred and twelve rush defense snaps and
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two un and seventeen pass defense snaps, which you noted
13:04
was almost fifty to fifty, and that might give the
13:06
impression that we're we're wrong that he's on the field
13:10
for pass rush as much as he is for run defense.
13:14
But I'm guessing these are not down in distance. This
13:20
is just what whether the play was a run or
13:23
happen to be a pass, because teams sometimes pass when
13:25
you think they're gonna run quite a bit.
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Speaker 2: You know. So we'll get into that one hundred percent.
13:30
You'll see in some of the other charts and tables
13:33
that I have that it'll become more obvious. In most
13:36
of the situations he was in, it was there were
13:39
like typical you know, first and long, second and long situations,
13:43
and that's typically where you'd see him play, and there's
13:46
a good chance you run on either one of those downs.
13:49
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So we'll get into the next chart, yes please,
13:54
All right, there are two of them here, so I'll
13:57
blow that up. Hopefully everybody can see really well. I
14:00
try to get both on the same screen.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So one thing I'd like to say for
14:05
the first one. The blue line is his snap count,
14:09
the red line is his tackles, and the yellow line
14:12
is his pressures. And as you can see, it's a
14:15
volume statistic, right, The more snaps you have, the more
14:17
you have and the more you know actual statistics you get,
14:20
especially at the line, so you can see every time
14:24
he snap count went higher, his tackles and pressures, you know,
14:27
went higher. What I think is particularly interesting is his
14:31
highest tackle and pressure count tend to come even when
14:35
he had a lower it's by it's really that Giants game. Yeah,
14:39
we had five tackles that you really see, and then
14:42
the conference championship in the Super Bowl, and again on
14:46
this access the actual weak numbers do not correlate with
14:50
the numbers that's actually like the numbers of games, right,
14:53
so you know, because they had to buy Week four,
14:56
so game four would be game five in that instance,
15:00
you know what I mean?
15:02
Speaker 1: So Week five is a little bit of an outlier,
15:04
right or game five because he had the most number
15:08
of snaps, but that week he seemed to have his
15:11
fewest tackles if I'm correct.
15:13
Speaker 2: On that, or one of his fewest, right exactly.
15:16
Speaker 1: But oddly enough, like you're saying it looks like week
15:18
seven here he had pretty decent amount of tackles and
15:23
not nearly as many snaps.
15:25
Speaker 2: Correct, And that's the same thing. And that's what I
15:28
think is kind of the theme with Jordan Davis and
15:30
that I'd like to get into, is they found a
15:33
way to optimize his usage, right, so they were getting
15:36
their bang for their buck without putting him on the
15:38
field as much. And I think that's that's kind of
15:41
the conclusion I kind of came to when I was
15:43
doing this research, especially because he just looked better as
15:47
the season went on. I think from the film perspective,
15:49
he looked better, and maybe just because he wasn't getting
15:52
as winded or his endurance might have improved, but also
15:55
he just didn't play as.
15:57
Speaker 1: Much, right, And is this so? Is this the Washington
16:00
game here week like seventeen or eighteen, where the pressure
16:04
or the thut's the tackles up. I'm sorry, it's just
16:07
weird because from the pressure in fifteen to twenty is
16:11
kind of low, right, And that's when the coaches said
16:14
that they felt they saw more from him.
16:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely is, but he was I thought he
16:21
played pretty well even though they didn't record his pressures. Remember,
16:25
he only had seven quarterback pressures on the year, which
16:27
is not good. Right, that's not good even for an
16:30
interior you're gonna have less pressure is at an interior
16:33
defensive line, but seven is not good. But if you
16:37
look at a guy, I mean, he's his highest snap
16:40
count was that dreadful Tampa Bay game at thirty seven. Like,
16:44
he never got higher than thirty another time in the year,
16:48
right though.
16:49
Speaker 1: And his lowest, I mean, his lowest looks like it
16:52
was probably twelve, and that might have been Week seven
16:55
against was that Jacksonville.
16:57
Speaker 2: So he was eleven against the Giant's in Week seven, that, right,
17:01
that was his lowest. But he was also twelve in
17:04
the wild card game and twelve in the Super Bowl.
17:07
But he made the most of those snaps. So I
17:10
think that's like what I was saying. He yeah, in
17:12
the playoffs, he was twelve, seventeen, thirteen, and twelve.
17:16
Speaker 1: Right. I like this line graph. I think it's it's good,
17:20
but it also illustrates the complexity of it because he
17:22
just didn't have that many pressures to really be able
17:27
to make good Compare like week to week to week
17:29
to week comparison, you know, not like an edge rusher
17:32
who might have five or six one week and in
17:34
two or three the next.
17:36
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I think you're absolutely right on that.
17:39
Speaker 1: All right, so let's go to this unless you have more,
17:42
I was going to go to this next chart.
17:43
Speaker 2: Let's go to the next chart.
17:44
Speaker 1: We're good, all right, What do we have here?
17:47
Speaker 2: Yeah? So these are just more statistics, but based on
17:50
his bye down. Right, So if you look at where
17:54
his where his actual usage was, he had two hundred
17:58
and forty three of his snaps first down and one
18:01
hundred and forty nine on second down. When you get
18:03
to third and fourth he had thirty eight between third
18:05
and fourth down combined. Wow. So I think that goes
18:08
to kind of what we were saying before that, you know,
18:13
he really was used in certain and again we'll break
18:16
this down into situation after this. Right, if you look
18:19
at just purely by down usage he was he was
18:23
used in first and second down, that's really where he
18:25
was used.
18:26
Speaker 1: Right, So this really answers the first part of the question.
18:32
I mean, I just did a quick one. It looks
18:33
it looks like eighty eight percent of his snaps were
18:35
on first and second down. That's how he was used.
18:39
That's what they felt was best for him. So for
18:43
Steven's question, you know, how did they use him and
18:46
how could he get more pressures? He's not used in
18:49
pressure situations. Well, this, this chart kind of validates the
18:54
question about going forward because he really did not get
18:57
that many opportunities. Thirty eight total snaps out of four
19:01
hundred and thirty total thirty eight snaps on third and
19:05
four down out of four hundred and thirty total snaps
19:08
is just a small sample size.
19:10
Speaker 2: And you you kind of stole the thunder of the
19:12
next chart, but I think it illustrates your point even better.
19:14
Why don't you go to that one really quick?
19:16
Speaker 1: And you can did want you to, because I think
19:18
these these time per down, time to sack, and time
19:22
to pressure and get offer are interesting enough to talk about.
19:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, they're they're the same as what
19:29
you saw before, because it's he only got sacks on
19:32
first and second down. He didn't get the sacks on
19:34
third and fourth. But the delineation between first and second
19:37
down is certainly interesting and we can spend a second
19:41
to talk about it. He pressured faster on second down,
19:46
but he sacked faster on first down, and again you're
19:50
you're talking about three sacks two and one right, and
19:54
six pressure six to one. So that that four point
19:57
six to one on second down I believe was was
20:00
that the Mahomes one. No, that was the that was
20:02
the Jade and Daniels one. The four to six to
20:04
one was the second one was jayde and Daniels. So
20:07
you're talking about one sact that he dominated on that one,
20:11
and it was one where it probably should have been faster.
20:14
If it wasn't Jade and Daniels, it probably would have
20:16
been faster. So it's it's kind of unfair to guard
20:19
to kind of grade him just based on this because
20:23
it's the Vault. The sample size is just so low.
20:25
Speaker 1: Right, So I would I would even sorry, I would
20:29
even take time to sack out of it because of
20:32
having again only three and then they came against some
20:37
elusive guys who tend to run around, especially Jade, Daniels
20:39
and Mahomes. So I think time to pressure in this
20:44
chart is somewhat encouraging, right, because on second down, which
20:49
is your more likelier passing down Colbert to first, his
20:53
time to pressure and as get off were better from
20:56
two point nine to two point two and one two
20:58
five to one? Is that fair?
21:01
Speaker 2: Sort of? Again, it's it's six pressures to one pressure, right,
21:05
so you're that's the only reason I say sort of.
21:09
I mean, listen, I am certainly an optimist, but I
21:11
also think we need to be realistic in this and
21:13
just and just mention the sample size is an issue here, right.
21:17
We can project it as much as we want, and
21:19
I think there there's validity in projecting it based on
21:22
what these numbers say. However, anytime you do project based
21:26
on limited information, it hurts the accuracy of it, that's all.
21:30
Speaker 1: How about the get off if that is the one?
21:32
Is the time on the getoff for per snap or
21:34
per pressure?
21:34
Speaker 2: It's per snap, So that's a little.
21:37
Speaker 1: Bit more encouraging then, because this is a bigger sample.
21:39
Speaker 2: Size there, absolutely, I mean that sample size is within
21:42
a valid number, right, it's two hundred and forty three
21:44
and one hundred and forty nine. So you feel pretty
21:47
good with that number at least, you know, being descriptive
21:51
of that that you can project off of. I feel
21:53
very comfortable projecting off of that.
21:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, good stuff. I love this, bro.
21:57
This is an excellent breakdown, thank you, because I think
22:00
it really sets the table for your your next few
22:03
charts here. So why don't we go to the next chart,
22:06
which is a pie chart for those who can't see,
22:09
that shows Jordan Davis's snaps by the down. It really
22:14
is Again, I think this visual just shows you the
22:18
complexity that we're talking about, because, as you'll you'll talk
22:21
about in a second, there's a really, really really big
22:24
piece of this pie that shows he played on first down.
22:26
Speaker 2: A lot, right, And I mean look over ninety percent
22:31
of the that is in first and second dout Like
22:33
that's that's crazy, that's absolutely crazy, right, That's that just
22:36
I just I thought seeing it for the people that
22:39
are like watching it would help visually. I just want
22:42
different visualization just to understand it, that's all.
22:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, If you're looking at this pie chart in the
22:47
context of the discussion of how to evaluate Jordan Davis's
22:51
pass rus snaps, you're looking at this yellow and tiny
22:56
green sliver as your sample size. Okay, So that let
23:01
that sink in for a second, that this is what
23:03
you have to judge him on if it were to
23:05
look like a pie it's not very much exactly, all right,
23:10
So snaps by situation, which I think tells a pretty
23:13
good story here too, and boom, I got some master
23:18
craftsmanship here.
23:19
Speaker 2: You're doing great charts.
23:20
Speaker 1: Thank you, honestly, go ahead this situation.
23:29
Speaker 2: So all I'll say in this is I didn't really
23:32
I kept going back and forth on if I should
23:34
separate it into first down just first down, or if
23:38
I should delineate based on first and short, first and medium,
23:41
first and long, and I split it up just because
23:44
you know, there are situations like goal line situations or
23:47
if there's a penalty where you're not going to be
23:49
exactly first intent, right, And it sounds so silly to say,
23:54
but I wanted this to be as descriptive as possible.
23:56
So that's why I made that decision.
23:58
Speaker 1: I think it's awesome. I think this is it's better
24:00
to do it this way because football, especially the Eagles right,
24:03
think about how situational they are, about how they're a
24:05
four down offense and how hard that makes them to defend.
24:09
So to have the actual breakdowns in this way I
24:11
think really illustrates more what we're looking at when Jordan
24:15
Davis is on the field and when he's on the field.
24:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that being said, like it really kind of
24:19
showcases where you know where that second down stats are
24:24
coming from. Right, So, so first down, obviously we see,
24:27
I mean it's for he's first intent most of the time. However,
24:30
what you're seeing on second down is they didn't use
24:32
him surprisingly on second and short. And you know what,
24:35
that makes sense because the NFL likes to pass on
24:38
second and short. I mean, that's a great opportunity to
24:40
do so, but they like to run on second and
24:42
medium and second and long, and so that's where he
24:45
was utilized. But you know where else he was utilized
24:47
the most, third and short because guess what teams like
24:49
to run there?
24:50
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. So it's funny. It's it's long when it's
24:56
first down and sometimes second and then short when it's
24:59
when it's second third. Yeah, that's yeah. And then again
25:02
like if you want to judge a guy on his
25:04
pass rush, well, look he's on the field third and six,
25:06
third and seven. It's the lowest of the bars. Fourth
25:10
and one and two is also a potential rundown, so
25:12
you can understand why that's that's quarterback sneak down, so
25:15
you can understand why he's in there for that. But
25:19
this is how he was used. And it's it's almost
25:22
like there's so many different ways in charts, but it
25:24
all comes back to the same thing that they did
25:26
not believe he was among their four best pass rushers.
25:28
So when it was time to put the four best
25:30
pass rushers on the field, Jordan Davis wasn't there.
25:34
Speaker 2: And I think the tape shows that too. I mean,
25:36
he wasn't one of the four best pass rushers.
25:38
Speaker 1: So correct by the way, it's tough to be one
25:42
of the four best fast pass rushers on the Eagles
25:44
when you have Josh Sweat and when you have Brandon Graham,
25:47
when you have Jalen Carter, and when you had Williams.
25:50
I mean, one guy's making twenty six million, the other
25:53
guy's probably the best defensive tackle in the league. And
25:56
you know, the edge rushers just went to Arizona. I
25:57
forgot how much he made, like twenty million in Arizon.
26:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, he made a lot.
26:03
Speaker 1: Like it's not really easy, but again, the spirit of
26:06
the question is they drafted this guy to do it,
26:08
so we've got to keep analyzing it.
26:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, and honestly, okay, so this chart right here that
26:15
we're looking at, I honestly love it, but I don't
26:17
think it does it justice until we go to the overlay.
26:20
I tried something new this time, okay, and I think
26:23
I think I want to save it. I think we
26:25
go past this chart and just show the overlight later.
26:28
Speaker 1: Oh all right, so do you want me to do
26:30
you want to go hurry up to this chart?
26:31
Speaker 2: Then yeah, let's let's do it, because because I think
26:34
people will enjoy it. Listen, this is a little experimental
26:36
for us, right, because this is the first time I've
26:38
tried something like this, And I'll explain it when we
26:41
get to it. We'll go over this table first and
26:43
then we'll get right into the chart. I just think
26:45
you'll enjoy it. That's all sounds good. I like a
26:47
little tease anyway.
26:48
Speaker 1: Some people saw that and jump out to jump in,
26:50
but we'll bypass that for the moment.
26:53
Speaker 2: Love it. So again, this is this is just what
26:55
you've what you're seeing, right, I mean, this is what
26:58
we talked about, but it's just more of a breakdown. Right.
27:00
So if you look that first and shortened medium is
27:03
nine snaps, right, and then if you look at the
27:07
first and ten range, it's two hundred and thirty three
27:10
snaps and then you see the second and medium fifty three,
27:15
second and long seventy six, third and short twenty five, right,
27:20
So that's that's kind of if you feel pretty good
27:24
about where he is at. And if you look at
27:27
some of the statistics, they they're kind of on part right.
27:31
So if you look at the tackles, he's fifteen for
27:33
first and long, and then he for second and medium
27:38
and second and long he's seven and seven, right, so
27:41
it's it's kind of tracks. And you know the sacks
27:46
he got all he got two of his sacks on
27:49
first down and the one on second and long, and
27:53
then he got six pressures on first and ten and
27:56
his other pressure was on second and long.
27:58
Speaker 1: So look, this is a great table because if you're
28:02
into math, and even if you're not really good at math,
28:05
but you're you're somewhat decent. We all know in the NFL,
28:09
third and long is the money down. As the person
28:11
put in their in their question, you know, I guess
28:15
that's where the money is made. It is money is
28:17
made on third down and on third and long all
28:21
year long. This man played two snaps, three snaps, but
28:25
I guess he dropped back in one of them, so
28:27
he rushed the passer twice all year long on third
28:31
and long. That's all you need to know. And really
28:34
seven times if you go from third and medium and
28:36
third and long out of four hundred and thirty snaps,
28:40
so kind of hard to show any chops as an
28:44
improved pass. And that's why I do think that the
28:49
it was Vic Fangio who said he saw it more
28:52
in practice than in the game, because obviously, in practice
28:55
you're out there and a bunch of different scenarios. In
28:58
the game, again, you're limited because they have that rotation
29:01
that they already had. So I think that's why Vic
29:04
made it a point sam to say that what he
29:07
really saw from Jordan Davis as an improved pass rusher
29:10
came first in practice and then you started to see
29:12
it a little bit more by the end of the
29:14
year in the postseason.
29:15
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think that makes sense. Yeah, now the moment
29:19
everyone's been waiting for, go to the next chart over.
29:22
Speaker 1: Oh, look at these beautiful shaded boxes and overlays.
29:26
Speaker 2: I love it a little bit about I'm sure I
29:30
can make it a little fancier in the future because
29:31
I literally just took the two charts, size them the
29:34
same and overlaid them. But this is just the first
29:37
chart where you see that greet those green bars or
29:39
his snap count, and then if you look, the blue
29:42
line is tackles and the red is pressure, just so
29:45
you can see by situation where his statistics go from
29:48
a visual perspective. Yes, yep, And I just think people
29:51
would enjoy this. I don't know it. Let us know
29:54
in the comments if you like this. Hopefully we can
29:57
do more of these. I think it chows, you know,
30:00
a three dimensional analysis, right, because you can see where
30:04
the stats actually came in.
30:05
Speaker 1: Right, right, So you see that he played a decent
30:09
number of snaps here on first and seven and long,
30:14
which we already know he played a lot of first
30:15
and ten, but that also this shows that he had
30:19
a decent amount of obviously tackles because that's at the
30:22
same point, but pressures. His pressures were up on first
30:26
and seven. So there were times. Here's what I make
30:29
of this, and you tell me what you think. There
30:30
were times on first and ten that the Eagles were
30:33
in a run defensive look base packaging him out there,
30:36
but the offense passed and Davis did a decent job
30:40
on those times of getting.
30:41
Speaker 2: Some pressures yeah, I would say, so that's that's a
30:45
very fair assessment.
30:46
Speaker 1: Now, there are some other games where the red line
30:50
doesn't move with the blue line, and that also shows
30:53
is inconsistency right this or not games I should say situations.
30:58
So second and let's break down one of them. Second
31:01
and I guess say between second and three and second
31:04
and six, you see a pretty big spike in his tackles,
31:09
although not in steps that's kind of strange, but not pressures,
31:13
so at least he was tackling.
31:15
Speaker 2: Right exactly, Yeah, exactly. And what's even more interesting with that,
31:20
so that we're talking about the second and medium right.
31:23
Out of those second and medium, sixteen of them were
31:26
pass passes, So I think that kind of explains it, right,
31:29
thirty seven of them were runs. So I think that's
31:33
part of the reason why the chart went that way.
31:36
Speaker 1: Sure, sure this was excellent or well anything else that
31:39
you're making out of this chart.
31:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's kind of the main thing. I
31:44
think that it's interesting, Like like I said, it's volume statistics, right,
31:49
Like you'll see the peaks kind of coincide with where
31:53
he got the most steps, and that's just naturally how
31:56
this is going to occur, but it's a little bit
31:58
situationally depend then on what kind of reps he was seeing.
32:02
When he was seeing past reps, you know, hope the
32:04
pressures kind of went up when he was seeing run snaps,
32:07
the tackles went up. It just kind of flows that way.
32:10
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop sharing at the moment and just kind
32:12
of come back and have a wrap up conversation with you. Sure,
32:14
I think this is all a lot of really good
32:20
data that at the end of the day still leaves
32:24
the second part of the question and not your fault,
32:28
but just it' that's sports for you unanswered in that
32:32
we don't know. We don't know what Jordan Davis will
32:35
look like this year. We don't know if he will
32:37
be able to get more opportunities to rush the passer.
32:41
I mean, you think he might because they're saying it,
32:44
and because there's some uncertainty next to Jaylen Carter now
32:49
with Moro Jomo stepping into the role. Ty Robinson's a rookie,
32:52
and you know, if one of those two guys gets
32:54
hurt or doesn't live up to what they want, or
32:57
if just Jordan Davis's beasting may get an opportunity to
33:01
get in there. And that's that's kind of I take
33:05
from your chart that if he gave him some more opportunities,
33:09
naturally you might see a better pass rush. But I
33:11
think the question is would you see an elite one
33:14
or an above average one? And to me, Sam, that
33:18
would be the remains to be seen.
33:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. I mean, there were a
33:22
lot of reps he was winning, and I thought he
33:24
was winning well, but there were just as many reps
33:26
that I watched where he just got destroyed at the lot,
33:29
like he just stood there. I mean, he is a
33:30
monster of a man. It's hard to move him. But
33:34
he definitely lost some reps. He's pretty good, especially against
33:37
the run at reading I felt, which is again his
33:41
strength is definitely against the run. It's again that pass situation,
33:44
and I feel like he gets himself into some trouble
33:47
sometimes in those and just because he didn't get a
33:50
high volume of them, it makes it difficult to assess.
33:52
That's all there.
33:53
Speaker 1: You go, all right and listen. I think it's gonna
33:55
be a fun storyline this year for training camp in
33:59
the season on how he does and if he gets
34:02
pass rushing roles. All right, Well, that was a lot
34:05
of charts, a lot of data. I hope Jordan Davis
34:08
himself would appreciate how much effort Sam put in to
34:13
going inside his pass rush versus rundown statistics. And like
34:17
we say, the rest is up to Jordan Davis to
34:20
prove if he's worthy of more pass rush snaps. So
34:23
that's going to do it for this episode of Inside
34:26
the Data for Sam Finkel. I'm Jeff Mosher. We'll catch
34:29
you on the next one.