Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Noah Presgrove Shocker! Attorney Blames Noah!

Transcript

Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Noah Presgrove Shocker! Attorney Blames Noah! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Body does. But Joseph's gotten more. There's no other feeling
0:07
Speaker 1: in the world like being young and being with your friends.
0:13
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about that group of friends that you
0:15
Speaker 1: hang out with, that group of friends like you get
0:19
Speaker 1: excited if you're going to see them, you're going to
0:22
Speaker 1: spend a protracted period of time together. And look, I
0:26
Speaker 1: got to confess partying, all right. And look, man, there's
0:31
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with partying, particularly when you're young, because I
0:33
Speaker 1: can tell you when you get old, you ain't gonna
0:35
Speaker 1: do it. You're gonna be in bed by eight.
0:39
Speaker 2: But there was a.
0:41
Speaker 1: Young man who did go and hang out with friends
0:47
Speaker 1: to enjoy I don't know, a long weekend over a
0:52
Speaker 1: labor day. He went into it, probably full of excitement,
0:59
Speaker 1: enthusiastic about seeing his buddies, fasten a bottle around, riding
1:05
Speaker 1: on atv out in the country where the only illumination
1:09
Speaker 1: is starlight. The only problem is is at the end
1:14
Speaker 1: of that weekend, after all the partying had been done,
1:20
Speaker 1: he had wound up dead on the side of a
1:24
Speaker 1: road with more trauma than anyone can possibly imagine. I'm
1:32
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.
1:39
Speaker 2: Brother Dave, we have got an update. We've got an
1:43
Speaker 2: update today relatively to Yeah it is No Press Grove.
1:51
Speaker 1: I didn't look at you know, it's one of these
1:52
Speaker 1: things that kind of you know, we cover these cases
1:55
Speaker 1: and I'd probably say that other people have the same
2:00
Speaker 1: and this is God, this is going to sound so bad,
2:03
Speaker 1: and I mean no disrespect, but such a volume of
2:07
Speaker 1: data comes into you and I on a regular basis,
2:11
Speaker 1: these cases that otherwise would just pound you in the
2:15
Speaker 1: face like a sledgehammer because other stuff trumps that data
2:19
Speaker 1: along the way. These cases are forgotten and day. No
2:24
Speaker 1: Press Grove's case is the stuff of horror movies. I mean,
2:29
Speaker 1: it is an absolute terror show.
2:32
Speaker 3: It is.
2:32
Speaker 4: It's every parent's worst nightmare for your young adult. You know,
2:37
Speaker 4: it's one of those things when our kids are young,
2:40
Speaker 4: before they start driving, we worry about them, their friends,
2:44
Speaker 4: who they're playing with, who they're hanging out with. Once
2:46
Speaker 4: they start driving, though, it becomes a different kind of fear,
2:49
Speaker 4: a different kind of concern that you have for your
2:51
Speaker 4: children when they're out. After they graduate school from high school,
2:57
Speaker 4: there's another level. It's a different kind of worry now
3:01
Speaker 4: because you know they're going to do things that young adults.
3:03
Speaker 3: Do you mentioned partying? Look, I did it.
3:07
Speaker 4: I encouraged my children when they became young adults to
3:10
Speaker 4: be wise. I think with my kids is I've already
3:14
Speaker 4: done it. You guys don't have to. I'll tell you what.
3:16
Speaker 4: The end result of all of it is. You end
3:19
Speaker 4: up in handcuffs and jail wondering where you know, where
3:21
Speaker 4: is my shirt?
3:22
Speaker 3: And you know, well, you.
3:24
Speaker 2: Know, Dave.
3:24
Speaker 1: The problem is is that most kids don't believe us,
3:30
Speaker 1: and they're going to want their own empirical proof of this.
3:35
Speaker 1: The speculation. You know, they see the speculation. They don't
3:38
Speaker 1: see it because none of them ever imagine us as
3:41
Speaker 1: young and partying. All right, So they have to go
3:44
Speaker 1: out and you sit there and you're shaking your heads
3:46
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't do that if I was you. I've
3:47
Speaker 1: already told you. But you know, it's part of the
3:51
Speaker 1: carelessness of youth. I think a lot of that. There's
3:53
Speaker 1: growth that comes out of it. I think there's also
3:56
Speaker 1: a lesson to be learned about what to do and
3:58
Speaker 1: what not to do. Any toms when you experience that.
4:01
Speaker 4: In the noahpress Grove story, yeah, we actually have both
4:05
Speaker 4: what to do and what not to do. And the
4:07
Speaker 4: reason we're doing this is because there has been some movement.
4:10
Speaker 4: You know, back in June, a lawsuit was filed by
4:13
Speaker 4: the family of Noah press Grove. It was filed without
4:17
Speaker 4: a lot of fanfare, mainly because you mentioned it right
4:20
Speaker 4: at the beginning. We're hit with so many different stories.
4:23
Speaker 4: Unless there's something that really moves that rock up the hill,
4:28
Speaker 4: it's not going to gain the attraction it needs. But
4:30
Speaker 4: after it was filed, you and I did an update,
4:32
Speaker 4: and now we've got that. We actually have an update
4:35
Speaker 4: to go along with that lawsuit. But before we do that, Joe,
4:38
Speaker 4: you and I took a really good look at the injuries.
4:42
Speaker 4: I actually, no, you took a really good look at them.
4:44
Speaker 4: I was so shocked at what we found out when
4:50
Speaker 4: this story came to us from one of y'all, a
4:52
Speaker 4: listener of the show who actually reached out and said, hey,
4:55
Speaker 4: have you guys covered this yet, And we're like, no,
4:58
Speaker 4: let me find out more.
4:59
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's oh my goodness. I just remembered that
5:03
Speaker 1: that did come to us this way.
5:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.
5:06
Speaker 4: And the thing is it goes back to again, out
5:09
Speaker 4: of one hundred stories that deserve coverage, to get it
5:13
Speaker 4: and there is no rhyme or reason to it.
5:15
Speaker 3: There really isn't.
5:16
Speaker 4: And this is one of those stories that I think
5:19
Speaker 4: the shock value of the what this young man had
5:22
Speaker 4: to have endured is not easily explained as saying he
5:27
Speaker 4: was walking down the road and it was a hit
5:30
Speaker 4: and run, because that's the explanation we've heard of a
5:34
Speaker 4: possible way that he could have ended up dead in
5:37
Speaker 4: this particular way.
5:38
Speaker 3: But Joe.
5:41
Speaker 4: I looked at this list of injuries, and there are
5:45
Speaker 4: certain things that happened to Noah press Grove and his
5:48
Speaker 4: body that even after looking down this list and reading
5:53
Speaker 4: reports and everything else, I still cannot, for the life
5:56
Speaker 4: of me, think of any way this could happen other
6:00
Speaker 4: then what appears to me a gang beating, teaching somebody
6:06
Speaker 4: a lesson.
6:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know this list, Okay, let me, let
6:13
Speaker 1: me let me kind of add a caveat here with
6:19
Speaker 1: with motor vehicle, and that's what has been alleged, okay,
6:23
Speaker 1: along that it was a motor vehicle related event, perhaps
6:29
Speaker 1: struck by a vehicle. We know that they're in the
6:32
Speaker 1: story woven throughout. There is an ATV, an all train
6:38
Speaker 1: all terrain vehicle that has been wrecked okay, But I
6:41
Speaker 1: think the main thing that was put forward is that.
6:46
Speaker 2: You've got a.
6:46
Speaker 1: Young man that's found deceased adjacent are on the roadway. Uh,
6:52
Speaker 1: and he has got a laundry list of injuries that
6:57
Speaker 1: you would think might be related to a motor vehicle
7:02
Speaker 1: accent day. But the problem is is that the motor
7:07
Speaker 1: vehicle accident that he would have been involved in to
7:10
Speaker 1: generate this kind of trauma, I think would have been
7:15
Speaker 1: he would be seated in the cabin of a car
7:20
Speaker 1: and pushed off a three story building and impacted nose
7:23
Speaker 1: dived into the and even that, you're still not going
7:26
Speaker 1: to get some of this stuff.
7:28
Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way.
7:32
Speaker 4: I've just tried to look at it from Okay, if
7:35
Speaker 4: you were hit by a car, he knows certain things
7:38
Speaker 4: that happen.
7:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it does happen. People do get hit by
7:41
Speaker 3: a car, Oh.
7:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the time.
7:43
Speaker 4: Very rarely do you get hit and then rolled under
7:46
Speaker 4: hitting and going under all four tires.
7:48
Speaker 3: Usually you bounce off a little bit, you know.
7:50
Speaker 2: Well you do, but we do.
7:52
Speaker 1: But there's a category for what's referred to as rollover injuries.
7:56
Speaker 1: And you know, the circumstances. Actually, dave have to be
7:59
Speaker 1: just right for that to happen. First Off, many times
8:03
Speaker 1: with a okay, let's just say we have a pedestri
8:08
Speaker 1: it's called pedestrian versus vehicle. Let's just say we do
8:11
Speaker 1: have a pedestrian and you've got a vehicle operator. There's
8:16
Speaker 1: so many things that come into play. First off, the
8:18
Speaker 1: height of the vehicle, the total wheelbase of the vehicle,
8:22
Speaker 1: how you know kind of wide the vehicle is from
8:25
Speaker 1: tire to tire, the speed, reaction time on the part
8:31
Speaker 1: of the driver. I guess you could also factor in
8:34
Speaker 1: there an awareness or lack of awareness on the part
8:36
Speaker 1: of maybe the victim. Many times, if you have a
8:43
Speaker 1: braking event where you've got a pedestrian that's in the roadway,
8:47
Speaker 1: you'll see a response on the part of a driver
8:52
Speaker 1: that has awareness that when they press on the brakes.
8:58
Speaker 1: First off, you've got deceleration, but also the nose of
9:03
Speaker 1: the vehicle will slightly drop down. Okay, and when that
9:09
Speaker 1: nose of the vehicle drops down, if it strikes someone
9:13
Speaker 1: in the legs or in the thigh the hip, it
9:18
Speaker 1: can deflect them. I've had these cases where people go
9:23
Speaker 1: over the top of the car into the windshield. Actually, Dave,
9:26
Speaker 1: I actually had a case one time where a guy
9:29
Speaker 1: came through a windshield and was decapitated and the head
9:34
Speaker 1: wound up in the seat of the vehicle adjacent to
9:38
Speaker 1: the operator of the vehicle. And the guy that this
9:40
Speaker 1: happened to that was I just had this memory. This
9:44
Speaker 1: was actually on Ien down in New Orleans. The guy
9:49
Speaker 1: that was driving the vehicle, he was headed to the
9:52
Speaker 1: New Orleans Airport, and he was Cabby, and he didn't
9:55
Speaker 1: speak very good, very good English. He came, the guy
9:58
Speaker 1: came through his windshield, decapitated him, and the guy's head,
10:02
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, either wound up in the Cabby's
10:05
Speaker 1: lap or in the seat adjacent to him in the
10:08
Speaker 1: torso was still in the vehicle kind of hanging off
10:11
Speaker 1: to the side when we got there. It was absolutely horrific.
10:15
Speaker 1: But it's almost unpredictable as to what's going to happen
10:21
Speaker 1: with a body when they're struck by a vehicle. But
10:25
Speaker 1: with Noah's Noah's injuries, Dave there, I was looking at
10:32
Speaker 1: the list. By the way, y'all, Dave does this incredible
10:35
Speaker 1: job of backing me up, and I truly need a
10:39
Speaker 1: lot of backing up the list, Dave, I did not remember.
10:45
Speaker 1: I did not remember how extensive and exhaustive this list
10:51
Speaker 1: of insults were to Noah's body until they were represented
10:56
Speaker 1: to me again.
10:57
Speaker 4: Oh, you had time, because we've actually had time now
10:59
Speaker 4: that we heard a number of different stories, and some
11:02
Speaker 4: of them have kind of washed whitewashed it a little bit,
11:05
Speaker 4: you know, as to what may have happened to know
11:07
Speaker 4: Ah Press Grove. But when you get right down to it,
11:10
Speaker 4: this is what happened to his body. This is this
11:15
Speaker 4: is when he was found. Okay, all of this was
11:17
Speaker 4: done when he was found just before six am after
11:23
Speaker 4: a weekend of partying with friends. All Right, he has
11:26
Speaker 4: a conversation argument three point fifteen two hours later, two
11:30
Speaker 4: and a half hours later.
11:31
Speaker 3: This is the condition of his body.
11:33
Speaker 4: Joe found on the road about a mile and a half,
11:36
Speaker 4: two miles from the house where they've been partying.
11:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is I'm not saying that you can
11:43
Speaker 1: see the end of the world from the locale, but
11:48
Speaker 1: it's it's out. You got to pump in sunshine out here.
11:52
Speaker 1: I mean, it's terrible. Oklahoma's case. Folks aren't aware of it.
11:57
Speaker 1: It's not far away as crow flies actually from from
12:07
Speaker 1: the Dallas area. And you know it's all relative in
12:12
Speaker 1: Texas and Oklahoma because things are so big out there.
12:14
Speaker 1: But it literally sits right on the Oklahoma Oklahoma Texas border,
12:21
Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of north west of Dallas. And
12:26
Speaker 1: let's face it, I mean it's a it's an agricultural area.
12:30
Speaker 1: You know, you're going to have a lot of farmers
12:31
Speaker 1: around there and that sort of thing. You're gonna have
12:33
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of wide open spaces for kids,
12:38
Speaker 1: particularly you know, young teenagers, I mean older teenagers and
12:42
Speaker 1: young adults that can rip and roaring out there and
12:45
Speaker 1: they can have all the fun they want. But I've
12:48
Speaker 1: got to tell you, when I dropped this list on
12:51
Speaker 1: you guys, I don't know, but I predict, just like me,
12:57
Speaker 1: you're gonna be shocked. They've these these injuries that that
13:17
Speaker 1: no Press Grove sustained are not merely limited to his head.
13:28
Speaker 3: Uh.
13:28
Speaker 2: We've got injuries.
13:30
Speaker 1: That that range from literally the soles of his feet
13:38
Speaker 1: to the top of his head. Let that sink in
13:42
Speaker 1: just for a second, now, that's one of the reasons
13:44
Speaker 1: I was previously talking about, and just indulge me for
13:47
Speaker 1: just a second. But when people are struck by a
13:49
Speaker 1: motor vehicle, let's just say pedestrian struck by a motor
13:52
Speaker 1: vehicle and they're upright, we look for things called bumper
13:58
Speaker 1: marks on the body, and that means that's the point
14:01
Speaker 1: of impact, if you're struck in the leg or the hip,
14:05
Speaker 1: and it generally most of the time it's very definitive
14:08
Speaker 1: you'll see a contusion because obviously when when they're alive,
14:12
Speaker 1: you're going to brewse right, and then the body is
14:15
Speaker 1: pitched over to one side or the body is rolled
14:18
Speaker 1: over and the vehicle run continues on down the road. Dave,
14:23
Speaker 1: in a case like this, and when we consider the
14:27
Speaker 1: extent the extent of the injuries, I would not be
14:30
Speaker 1: as inclined to believe that this is a standard rollover.
14:33
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he wasn't rolled over. I guess the
14:36
Speaker 1: question I would have to ask is how many damn
14:40
Speaker 1: times was he rolled over? All right, it's not like
14:44
Speaker 1: a it's not like you're going to get this in
14:46
Speaker 1: one fail swoop, because Dave, we've got we've got ribs,
14:53
Speaker 1: we've got cervicle, vertebra, we've got skull, we've got tissue
15:00
Speaker 1: being peeled away with his young men. And if you'll
15:03
Speaker 1: indulge me, I'll I'll go ahead and run this down
15:06
Speaker 1: if you know, and we can. I just want everyone
15:08
Speaker 1: to kind of understand, you know what we're what we're
15:12
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, when when his remains were finally
15:16
Speaker 1: finally come across and here we go, we've got so
15:20
Speaker 1: Noah had ten broken ribs, He's got a fractured skull,
15:30
Speaker 1: next spine fractures, internal bleeding. So I mentioned the damaged skull.
15:37
Speaker 1: He's got internally, he's got brain brain hemorrhage. And Dave,
15:44
Speaker 1: there's something that's kind of kind of interesting here. When
15:48
Speaker 1: they did the examination and they kind of dissected out,
15:52
Speaker 1: you know, through his brain and down his spinal cavity,
15:54
Speaker 1: they actually found air and inside of these areas, which
16:00
Speaker 1: is something Well, it tells me that these bones were
16:03
Speaker 1: fractured so extensively that they they were open, they were
16:08
Speaker 1: open to the environment. Do you reil us how hard
16:13
Speaker 1: it is to crack open? I mean, skulls are hard
16:16
Speaker 1: to crack open. Do you realize how difficult it is
16:20
Speaker 1: to crack open a cervical vertebra and not just one?
16:24
Speaker 1: Hang on, let me refer back to my notes, I
16:26
Speaker 1: feel like I'm a trial. Now We've got C one,
16:31
Speaker 1: which is actually referred to as your atlas if you'll,
16:34
Speaker 1: if you'll imagine the image of the Titan. I think
16:40
Speaker 1: he was a Titan, the Greek Titan Atlas holding up
16:44
Speaker 1: the earth on his shoulders. That's where the term C
16:48
Speaker 1: one or the atlas vertebra comes from. It drops down
16:52
Speaker 1: to C two, C three is apparently C three.
16:56
Speaker 2: C four.
16:58
Speaker 1: And C five are not damaged. But then it jumps
17:02
Speaker 1: to C six and seven. So you've got this this
17:06
Speaker 1: area in his neck which is the most proximal to
17:11
Speaker 1: the base of the skull C one and C two,
17:14
Speaker 1: and then you're going to jump over three other vertebral
17:18
Speaker 1: bodies and landing on six, C six and C seven,
17:24
Speaker 1: and those are all fractured. So that almost maybe it
17:30
Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't, but that almost smacks of two separate impacts, okay,
17:37
Speaker 1: just simply based on the cerebral on the curfable vertebra.
17:42
Speaker 2: Rather.
17:45
Speaker 1: The other thing too, that I remember now making note
17:48
Speaker 1: of is that the C one not only is it fractured,
17:54
Speaker 1: David C one was displaced, which means it's kind of
17:59
Speaker 1: if you think about the spine if you're just if
18:01
Speaker 1: you were looking at a skeleton running from north to south. Okay,
18:05
Speaker 1: in the vertical plane at the very top. You know,
18:09
Speaker 1: the the reason people go to go to chiropractice many
18:12
Speaker 1: times is because the spinal alignment and all that sort
18:15
Speaker 1: of thing. Well, there's a particular spinal alignment in the
18:18
Speaker 1: vertical plane and Dave, the very top, the very top
18:22
Speaker 1: vertebra again atlas that supports the skull is knocked over
18:27
Speaker 1: to one side. How does that even happen?
18:31
Speaker 2: Dave?
18:31
Speaker 1: We you know when when people see that, when it
18:36
Speaker 1: has been seen and documented over the years. Judicial hangings,
18:40
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, judicial hangings where you get that kind
18:43
Speaker 1: of displacement like that, and you get the fracturing, you know,
18:46
Speaker 1: the old fracturing at the neck. By the way, we're
18:49
Speaker 1: still going to do an episode on judicial hangings at
18:52
Speaker 1: some point in time that I've talked about doing for
18:55
Speaker 1: a long time.
18:56
Speaker 4: I've tried to look at these injuries and think, Okay,
19:00
Speaker 4: how could any one of these happen? And realize that
19:03
Speaker 4: when you start thinking about again geography, where was he found?
19:07
Speaker 4: It was found just off of a road early morning
19:12
Speaker 4: before six am. And we know that his clothes. By
19:16
Speaker 4: the way, haven't mentioned this yet, Noah press Grove with
19:20
Speaker 4: all these injuries, Joseph Scott Morgan was found naked. His
19:24
Speaker 4: clothes were sitting by him folded. Now what you know,
19:30
Speaker 4: what is he flying through the air. The clothes are
19:33
Speaker 4: coming off before the next tire rolls back over his
19:36
Speaker 4: head to peel some skin, and his shirt falls off
19:40
Speaker 4: and it folds itself like a Genie in the night
19:43
Speaker 4: pants to and then I guess when he's back up
19:46
Speaker 4: in the air, he decides to brush his teeth.
19:48
Speaker 3: But oh, they're all knocked out. We didn't get to
19:51
Speaker 3: that yet.
19:52
Speaker 4: But let's get right to the rest of the injuries,
19:54
Speaker 4: because again you're talking about pre six am side of
19:58
Speaker 4: the road country rode code. He's got these injuries ten
20:03
Speaker 4: broken ribs, serious gold neck and spine fractures, internal bleeding,
20:07
Speaker 4: brain and organ damage, cuts and grazes all over his body.
20:11
Speaker 4: And you pointed out he had about twenty mili liters
20:14
Speaker 4: of blood pulled inside his head from a brain bleed.
20:19
Speaker 3: How much is said, Joe, oh.
20:22
Speaker 1: Twenty MILLI leaders, let's see if I could do the
20:25
Speaker 1: math on that very carefully. It's more than should be
20:29
Speaker 1: there okay, all right, And so there's an indwelling hemorrhage
20:34
Speaker 1: in there. So you've got this impact that has affected
20:37
Speaker 1: these little vessels, which there are many of within the brain.
20:41
Speaker 1: And we've talked about this on bodybacks before, Dave that
20:44
Speaker 1: the brain and probably secondarily to that. I know we'll
20:48
Speaker 1: probably get gigged on this by one of our friends,
20:52
Speaker 1: but the brain and the liver are two of the
20:55
Speaker 1: most vascular organs in the body, probably the brain hands down,
21:00
Speaker 1: but liver is very vascular as well. That's why if
21:04
Speaker 1: you have liver damage traumatic, you know, you got to
21:07
Speaker 1: get you have to get that repaired. You're going to
21:09
Speaker 1: bleed out into your gut brain same way. But the
21:13
Speaker 1: problem is with the brain is that not only are
21:16
Speaker 1: you experiencing this extensive hemorrhage and this pressure that's building
21:20
Speaker 1: up inside of there. It's not just the blood loss,
21:25
Speaker 1: it's also the pressure within the cranial vault. It's kind
21:29
Speaker 1: of squeezing down on the brain. That's why there has
21:32
Speaker 1: to be surgical intervention. But David, I got to tell you, brother,
21:36
Speaker 1: I think you could have had an entire staff of
21:39
Speaker 1: neurosurgeons standing there adjacent to that roadway. He wouldn't have
21:45
Speaker 1: had two hoots and hell's chance of surviving this because
21:48
Speaker 1: these injuries are so over the top with this kid.
21:53
Speaker 1: And again, I got to tell you, this smacks to
21:55
Speaker 1: me of not just a single instant, you know, because
22:01
Speaker 1: of this the extent of the injuries we've got. And
22:05
Speaker 1: just let me just bear with me, because he's got
22:09
Speaker 1: he's got road rash, which most of the time you're
22:12
Speaker 1: going to get road rash injuries from you can be
22:17
Speaker 1: rolled over and just imagine a barrel rolling down the road.
22:22
Speaker 1: That's what happens with your body, all right, if you're
22:24
Speaker 1: caught beneath the undercarriage of the car car rolls over you.
22:29
Speaker 1: And there are very specific injuries you look for with
22:31
Speaker 1: that that translate from the undercarriage of the car also
22:34
Speaker 1: the tires of the car onto the body. And then
22:37
Speaker 1: you've got the underlying road surface or if you have
22:42
Speaker 1: been dragged by a car as well. So you have
22:46
Speaker 1: to try to understand the orientation of these of this
22:50
Speaker 1: road rash. Is it like linear, you know, like does
22:54
Speaker 1: the road rash A way to interpret this, Okay, if
22:58
Speaker 1: you're looking at a all over type of event, if
23:04
Speaker 1: the body is log rolling down the road. That means
23:08
Speaker 1: like rolling like a log underneath a car. You're going
23:12
Speaker 1: to have these kind of parallel markings on the body.
23:14
Speaker 1: You'll have them on the upper body and lower body, however,
23:17
Speaker 1: and those will translate into road rash. If you have
23:22
Speaker 1: someone who is dragged behind a car, they're going to
23:26
Speaker 1: be very linear and they'll be insane. Plane. Let's just
23:29
Speaker 1: say someone is being drugged by the bumper of a vehicle.
23:35
Speaker 1: You might have these abrasions and dave, they're going to
23:39
Speaker 1: look strided. Shrided means like streaked, and they'll generally be
23:44
Speaker 1: about as wide as your hand, all right, because it's
23:46
Speaker 1: a point of contact, and you'll have multiple surfaces and
23:49
Speaker 1: the body is being drug down the road, and they're
23:52
Speaker 1: all gonna be linear and kind of parallel to one another.
23:56
Speaker 1: So when you're thinking about orientation of the body to
23:59
Speaker 1: the vehicle and to the road surface, what pattern were
24:04
Speaker 1: these in Because we haven't necessarily heard that yet, you know,
24:09
Speaker 1: we do know that road rash exists or what the
24:12
Speaker 1: forensic pathologist is talking about. And by the way, the
24:17
Speaker 1: State Medical Examiner's Office in Oklahoma, it's one of the
24:22
Speaker 1: finest in the country. First Off, it's a state Medical
24:25
Speaker 1: Examiner's office. It's a standalone, separate entity from any law
24:30
Speaker 1: enforcement agency. It's not like governed by the state police
24:34
Speaker 1: or anything. It's a standalone agency. And they're renowned. They're
24:39
Speaker 1: renowned for their work and the quality of work that
24:41
Speaker 1: they do.
24:42
Speaker 2: So I have no doubt.
24:44
Speaker 1: He's got this abrasion, Dave. That's on multiple surfaces. So
24:49
Speaker 1: he's got road rash on his upper back. He's got
24:54
Speaker 1: abrasions and grazes on his left shoulder, left arm, left
24:59
Speaker 1: side of the tors and both of his butt. Okay,
25:03
Speaker 1: so he's kind of twisting and turning.
25:06
Speaker 2: Again.
25:06
Speaker 1: We don't know if it's in necessarily the horizontal plane
25:10
Speaker 1: or the vertical plane that these things are running relative
25:13
Speaker 1: to the torso itself, and that's just that's the external vision.
25:19
Speaker 2: That you have. He's also got healed.
25:23
Speaker 1: Abrasions that they found on and scabs on his nose,
25:29
Speaker 1: both of his hands, his knuckles, left foot, and heel.
25:34
Speaker 1: He's got an ulcerated healing or ulcer on his right thigh.
25:40
Speaker 1: All of these, according to the Medical Examiner, these other injuries,
25:45
Speaker 1: which is fascinating to me, predate the night of this event, Dave,
25:50
Speaker 1: and they referred to as healed abrasions and scabs on
25:53
Speaker 1: his nose and David, you know what, it's not just
25:56
Speaker 1: that they're on his on his nose, they're on both
26:03
Speaker 1: hands as well, and the knuckles. Dave, when I see abrasions,
26:09
Speaker 1: when I hear about abrasions on hands and knuckles, you
26:12
Speaker 1: know what, I think, you know, I think that there's
26:15
Speaker 1: physical altercation involved. But yet these things are healing. I
26:18
Speaker 1: think the one thing to try to understand is at.
26:23
Speaker 2: What level of resolve are these injuries?
26:26
Speaker 1: Is this something that because you could, I guess over
26:29
Speaker 1: a thirty six hour period, you'll have enough of a change.
26:33
Speaker 1: And I think that we can all relate to this.
26:35
Speaker 1: I mean we all can. You and I both can.
26:37
Speaker 1: If we scrape our hand. Let's say that right now,
26:41
Speaker 1: you and I scraped our hand. Thirty six to forty
26:45
Speaker 1: eight hours from now, that insult is going to look
26:49
Speaker 1: completely different than it does right now. Yeah, you would
26:52
Speaker 1: have a scab, you would have some a bit of
26:57
Speaker 1: resolving that's going on with the injury. Certainly, you know,
27:01
Speaker 1: if you had a contusion there, the contusion is not
27:03
Speaker 1: going to be the same color as it was forty
27:05
Speaker 1: eight hours earlier. Thirty six hours earlier, So I think
27:09
Speaker 1: that within this timeframe, I mean, one of the questions
27:12
Speaker 1: is what was going on, what had he been involved in?
27:17
Speaker 1: We do know this that those injuries were still there.
27:21
Speaker 1: They hadn't gone anywhere, so they're not like ancient ancient injuries.
27:25
Speaker 1: I think that we can probably speculate on that a bit.
27:29
Speaker 1: With with these injuries though, you're kind of over there's
27:37
Speaker 1: an overlay of of the of the fresh injuries and
27:44
Speaker 1: these old injuries. The problem is, like many times with
27:48
Speaker 1: these with these issues, there's you know, sequencing that goes on.
27:55
Speaker 1: What was kind of fascinating about all this. You've got
27:59
Speaker 1: this this guy that does Stuart Fisher, who's an internist,
28:04
Speaker 1: and he had given he's a physician, he's like an
28:07
Speaker 1: internal uh internal medicine guy that has, according to the
28:13
Speaker 1: Daily Mail, had worked you know extensively in emergency you know, medicine.
28:18
Speaker 1: They asked him to review the report, and the physician
28:23
Speaker 1: had actually stated that this this kid has suffered so
28:29
Speaker 1: many catastrophic injuries, Dave, that any number of these insults
28:36
Speaker 1: could have killed him just like a stand alone UH.
28:40
Speaker 1: I think probably the most significant one that the that
28:43
Speaker 1: the uh that the doctor you know, pointed out was
28:48
Speaker 1: the extensive, uh, the extensive skull fraction. As a matter
28:51
Speaker 1: of fact, their you know, their comments relative to this,
28:55
Speaker 1: and this comes from the police investigators that they described
29:00
Speaker 1: as head Dave is being caved in. Now, how can
29:04
Speaker 1: you have a cave in? And that would be what's
29:08
Speaker 1: referred to as a depressed skull fracture where you have
29:12
Speaker 1: to have energy transfer from an object to that underlying surface,
29:16
Speaker 1: the external table of the skull, so that that direct
29:20
Speaker 1: energy is coming from I don't know.
29:22
Speaker 2: A tire.
29:25
Speaker 1: Or a foot, or an object like a bat or
29:32
Speaker 1: a pipe. And you know, going back to the physition,
29:38
Speaker 1: he said, you know, Dave, there's five, maybe up to
29:41
Speaker 1: ten life threatening injuries just in stand alone by itself.
29:46
Speaker 1: And that's again you have to ask yourself this question
29:51
Speaker 1: a reasonable question here, could know Press Grove have sustained
29:57
Speaker 1: all of the totality of these injuries simply being struck
30:02
Speaker 1: by a motor vehicle with a single strike. I just
30:06
Speaker 1: I have a real hard time swallowing.
30:08
Speaker 3: Joe, what about.
30:11
Speaker 4: What about the clumps of hair? What about the skin
30:17
Speaker 4: on the left side of his scalp that was torn
30:22
Speaker 4: to the bone. I mean, I know there are thinner
30:25
Speaker 4: parts of skin and things like that, But when you
30:27
Speaker 4: start talking about skin being torn to the bone, that's
30:32
Speaker 4: just animalistic behavior to me. It's something that unless you're
30:39
Speaker 4: again now back to unless you are hit by something mechanical,
30:42
Speaker 4: if another human being did this, how enraged are you
30:46
Speaker 4: that you can cause hair to be pulled out, ripping
30:50
Speaker 4: skin to the skull. A clump of hair, A clump
30:54
Speaker 4: of hair was observed on his right butt cheek without
31:00
Speaker 4: blood or tissue on it. Joe, have you ever seen
31:03
Speaker 4: a car truck hit somebody and I guess the truck
31:06
Speaker 4: fairy goes back and finds some hair that's undamaged and
31:09
Speaker 4: laid on the person like as a wreath.
31:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it all depends.
31:12
Speaker 1: Well again we're back to folded clothes, right right. How
31:16
Speaker 1: how do you get head hair that is deposited on
31:21
Speaker 1: the buttock? Well, it's a real dynamic situation. I'll give
31:24
Speaker 1: you that if it is a rollover. But you know,
31:28
Speaker 1: when you couple that also with what was that you
31:31
Speaker 1: had mentioned Off of the aspect of the face, we
31:34
Speaker 1: had skin that was feeled back, David, this is a
31:37
Speaker 1: phenomenon that's known as degloving. Wow, degloving yeah, we.
31:41
Speaker 3: Do gloving for everything we do.
31:44
Speaker 1: Well you give a yeah, you really do because in
31:47
Speaker 1: some things are so and look, not all of it
31:50
Speaker 1: comes directly from forensics because you have, you know, people
31:55
Speaker 1: in standard medical practice, you know, deal with individuals that
31:59
Speaker 1: have their skin has been degloved. You know, it does,
32:02
Speaker 1: it does happen. It's horrible, it's horrible, and you know
32:06
Speaker 1: people wind up having skin grafts and all those sorts
32:08
Speaker 1: of things. But yeah, degloving for us, you know, it
32:11
Speaker 1: has a couple of connotations. First off, you can have
32:13
Speaker 1: traumatic degloving and uh you get degloving with skin in
32:20
Speaker 1: regards to decomposition, you know, like the hands de glove
32:24
Speaker 1: we you know, and the more will actually take the
32:28
Speaker 1: dermal level of the skin and peel it off the
32:30
Speaker 1: hands of a off of a decomposing body. Put a
32:35
Speaker 1: latex glove over your own hand and insert your hand
32:40
Speaker 1: into the skin, the degloved skin of the deceased, and
32:43
Speaker 1: we can roll fingerprints that way. I've done that many times.
32:46
Speaker 1: It's kind of a creepy thing to do. I know, uh,
32:49
Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking right now, No kidding, just got.
32:52
Speaker 3: Actually think if it doesn't fit, you must have quite.
32:56
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, and that's again that's an other problem
33:00
Speaker 1: because skin is so stretched. But I'm digressing. We could
33:04
Speaker 1: do an entire episode on things that we have to
33:08
Speaker 1: do about decomposing bodies, like.
33:09
Speaker 3: From the hair and the skin. What about the teeth, Joe?
33:14
Speaker 1: Okay, The teeth are fascinating to me because you've got
33:17
Speaker 1: this array of teeth that are lying about on the
33:22
Speaker 1: roadway well in order. The reason there is a term
33:28
Speaker 1: that people say they got their teeth knocked out is
33:32
Speaker 1: because it's a big deal day you're aize how hard
33:35
Speaker 1: it is to unroot a tooth traumatically, and that's a
33:41
Speaker 1: single tooth, all right. I think one of the big
33:46
Speaker 1: questions I have and is was there was there any
33:51
Speaker 1: kind of maxillary which means your maxilla is essentially the
33:58
Speaker 1: roof of your mouth. Just give me a little rope here,
34:01
Speaker 1: but it's it's the roof of the mouth. So your
34:03
Speaker 1: maxillary teeth, the upper teeth are seated in there. Then
34:08
Speaker 1: you have the mangellary teeth and those are indemandible, which
34:11
Speaker 1: is your jaw, all right, and they're deeply rooted. You know,
34:14
Speaker 1: I think that most people can identify with this. You
34:17
Speaker 1: know what your teeth are like you ever had tooth pulled.
34:20
Speaker 1: We're not just talking about one or two teeth. We're
34:22
Speaker 1: talking about multiple teeth that are scattered around on the
34:25
Speaker 1: surface of the roadway. Well, most of time it's going
34:27
Speaker 1: to inquire. That's going to require a very forceful impact.
34:30
Speaker 1: I want to know what the underlying diagnosis were was
34:33
Speaker 1: for the bony structure supporting the area. Was there extensive
34:37
Speaker 1: jaw fracturing or maxillary fracturing, because we know that his
34:41
Speaker 1: skull was fractured. Say what do they say earlier his
34:43
Speaker 1: skull was caved in, Well, the upper skull if you're
34:47
Speaker 1: talking about say the right or the left paridal area,
34:51
Speaker 1: which is that area that's if you'll find your temple
34:53
Speaker 1: and kind of go above into the rear, that's the
34:57
Speaker 1: parietal area, a sprietal bone right there, and then you
34:59
Speaker 1: have occipital bones in the back. They're kind of non
35:04
Speaker 1: specific about that. I'd like to know what specifically what
35:11
Speaker 1: the teeth are, and I'm talking about anatomical orientation.
35:16
Speaker 2: Uh, you know.
35:17
Speaker 1: What what was left where the teeth Okay, where the
35:20
Speaker 1: teeth actually knocked out of his head or Dave, where
35:25
Speaker 1: the teeth actually fractured and the root was still in
35:30
Speaker 1: place in the in the in the socket of the
35:33
Speaker 1: of the teeth. Totally two different things here. Okay, there's
35:39
Speaker 1: there's so much trauma in in Noah's case, Dave, this
35:44
Speaker 1: this autopsy alone, just let me kind of run this
35:48
Speaker 1: down to you. The autopsy alone. When they got into
35:54
Speaker 1: this thing, I would imagine it took them a couple
35:56
Speaker 1: of hours, and you know what, the line share of
36:00
Speaker 1: their time would have been spent doing here, doing the
36:04
Speaker 1: external exam, because there's so much externally relative to his body.
36:11
Speaker 1: Before you ever break out the cold steel, as we say,
36:15
Speaker 1: and open his remains up, it would be a grand
36:21
Speaker 1: undertaking in order to examine him and try to assess
36:24
Speaker 1: everything measured appropriately. And I hadn't even talked about what
36:28
Speaker 1: had happened in his chest cavity because we've got a
36:31
Speaker 1: closed head injury, or I guess you could say it's
36:33
Speaker 1: kind of open if they're talking about a depressed skull fracture.
36:39
Speaker 1: But Dave, for Noah, both of his lungs were punctured,
36:45
Speaker 1: so that means that puncturing of lungs comes about as
36:49
Speaker 1: a result of fractured ribs. Will refer to it many
36:53
Speaker 1: times as a flail chess where you've got multiple ribs
36:57
Speaker 1: on both sides and you get what's referred to as
36:59
Speaker 1: like a floating cast. A lot of blood associated with this.
37:03
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I think that they recovered
37:09
Speaker 1: roughly about three point two pints of blood. It's about
37:16
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred millimeters of blood. He's got a contusion to
37:23
Speaker 1: his heart, his spleen, and his stomach. So this kid
37:29
Speaker 1: has just been obliterated, pounded, and it's not just external,
37:36
Speaker 1: it's what has happened to him internally. There were at
37:43
Speaker 1: the scene. The big thing about it is is that
37:47
Speaker 1: with all of these injuries day, with the one thing
37:49
Speaker 1: that really really catches your eye other than if you
37:54
Speaker 1: didn't need anything else, Dave, there's no pools of blood.
37:59
Speaker 1: There's nools of blood out there. And how do you
38:03
Speaker 1: generate all of these injuries and you don't have.
38:06
Speaker 2: Like a large.
38:08
Speaker 1: Puddling of blood that's immediately adjacent to the body or
38:11
Speaker 1: the body.
38:12
Speaker 2: Is overlying it? Does?
38:14
Speaker 1: It just doesn't. It doesn't make sense that. Look, I'm
38:32
Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and say that you know, Noah,
38:38
Speaker 1: some innocent little lamb that was you know, uh, just
38:41
Speaker 1: brought in that he hadn't been participating in partying and
38:45
Speaker 1: all this sort of thing, But it still doesn't excuse
38:49
Speaker 1: the idea of how much trauma he has had. I'll
38:53
Speaker 1: tell you this for folks that are not aware. His
38:57
Speaker 1: blood alcohol is zero point one four, and that's that
39:03
Speaker 1: exceeds the legal limit, okay, for intoxication, but that means
39:07
Speaker 1: to operate a vehicle. Now he's under age. He's underage drinking.
39:11
Speaker 1: So at point one four, you will be slurring your words,
39:19
Speaker 1: You're going to have your motor activity and response time
39:22
Speaker 1: is going to be slowed down significantly. You know, legal drinking,
39:27
Speaker 1: the legal limit for drinking or being drunk, according to
39:32
Speaker 1: state law pretty much around the country, it's going to
39:35
Speaker 1: vary is generally point zero eight. His is point one four.
39:40
Speaker 1: So he's he's got you know, he's got a significant
39:44
Speaker 1: amount of alcohol on board. It's not twice the amount
39:50
Speaker 1: quite yet of legal limit, but it's it's up there.
39:53
Speaker 1: So he would have been impaired. But again, you know
39:57
Speaker 1: somebody that's impaired, Dave is is the easily pounced upon
40:02
Speaker 1: by somebody.
40:03
Speaker 4: Well, let me give you the other part of this
40:05
Speaker 4: shoe that I really wanted to make sure we understand
40:08
Speaker 4: because we've covered most we didn't even cover all of
40:10
Speaker 4: his injuries. You have friends, just so you know what
40:12
Speaker 4: you heard is a partial list. There's still more. But
40:15
Speaker 4: when he was found in that state, with all those injuries,
40:20
Speaker 4: he was naked. He wore only mismatched shoes. One was
40:25
Speaker 4: in n Adidas and the other was a Hey dude's.
40:29
Speaker 4: There was debris and grass stuck in the laces of
40:34
Speaker 4: each and more of them. On the left shoe, a
40:38
Speaker 4: silver plated chain necklace from Noah's grandmother was scattered in pieces.
40:43
Speaker 3: Not far away from a remnants of a tooth, not
40:47
Speaker 3: a whole tooth, remnants of.
40:49
Speaker 2: A tooth, a fracture tooth.
40:51
Speaker 4: Yes, his undamaged shores. We're seeing about thirty yards away. Jack,
41:01
Speaker 4: this goes back several months ago. Was Noah's best friend
41:05
Speaker 4: said that the shorts were actually borrowed. This goes back
41:10
Speaker 4: to that rollover incident with the vehicle. Yeah, they were dirty,
41:13
Speaker 4: They just grab clothes. You know, there were people spending
41:16
Speaker 4: the night and staying they were grabbing that. That does
41:18
Speaker 4: not surprise me nearly as much, you know as a
41:20
Speaker 4: lot of the things that have happened. You know, the clothing.
41:23
Speaker 4: What bothers me about the clothing is that he was
41:27
Speaker 4: found naked with all those injuries, and his clothing was
41:30
Speaker 4: not on him near him torn. I mean it's you know,
41:34
Speaker 4: does that make sense, Joe. That really bothers me that
41:37
Speaker 4: he's left in a state of destruction and you're not
41:42
Speaker 4: finding ripped clothes, torning clothes, bloody clothes.
41:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:46
Speaker 1: And I think this goes to an element. I think
41:49
Speaker 1: in legal terms, it's referred to as due care. You know,
41:54
Speaker 1: we were Nancy recently and she was talking about that
41:57
Speaker 1: public doesn't have an obligation necessarily to tend to somebody
42:02
Speaker 1: that's not directly in uh you know, like if you're
42:06
Speaker 1: a caregiver, if you're a parent, that sort of thing,
42:08
Speaker 1: you do have a legal obligation you know, to take
42:10
Speaker 1: care of you know, infirmed people and children and all
42:13
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But it would seem to me,
42:18
Speaker 1: and there have been lawsuits that have been brought in
42:20
Speaker 1: regards to this sort of thing when somebody comes to
42:22
Speaker 1: a domicile and they're applied with alcohol and this is
42:28
Speaker 1: I mean, bars have gotten sued over this. I know,
42:30
Speaker 1: you know that day where people will get get hammered
42:34
Speaker 1: you know, at a local bar, and the the you know,
42:38
Speaker 1: the bar didn't use due care and allowed the individual
42:40
Speaker 1: to leave, and they wind up either getting killed or
42:42
Speaker 1: killing somebody, that sort of thing. So how do you
42:47
Speaker 1: how do you allow someone to leave your domicile or
42:52
Speaker 1: in your and you know that they're they're drunk, and
42:55
Speaker 1: they're they're naked, and they're wearing mismatched shoes. It's such
43:00
Speaker 1: a bizarre set of circumstances. And then finally, you know,
43:04
Speaker 1: a little while later, he's found he's found dead a
43:11
Speaker 1: distance from the house, out on the road, Dave.
43:14
Speaker 4: And with conflicting stories from those who are at the party. Yeah,
43:17
Speaker 4: that's the biggest issue. You got friends from Look, man,
43:20
Speaker 4: you guys all grow up together. Yes, you were having
43:22
Speaker 4: a party. Sett all that to the side, where kles,
43:24
Speaker 4: we got a dead guy? What happened? We can't get
43:27
Speaker 4: the same story from everybody the minute somebody's lying, somebody's lying,
43:32
Speaker 4: you know.
43:32
Speaker 3: And if you can't get if you've.
43:35
Speaker 4: Got five people telling five different stories, they could all
43:38
Speaker 4: be talking about from their perspective of what they saw,
43:41
Speaker 4: but when you put it all together, they all make
43:43
Speaker 4: sense that isn't happening here. So that's what let him
43:45
Speaker 4: know his family finally, after not getting anywhere with any
43:48
Speaker 4: you know, by the way, I want to be very
43:51
Speaker 4: the police have done the best job they can at
43:56
Speaker 4: this point. They've involved others, you know, they've done their investigation.
44:00
Speaker 4: But at a certain point in time, you know, you
44:02
Speaker 4: you really have to know what happened, and they have
44:04
Speaker 4: yet to figure that out.
44:06
Speaker 1: So no, and I don't know, I don't know that
44:10
Speaker 1: they have enough enough probable cause to move forward from
44:15
Speaker 1: a legal standpoint in order to intensify the investigation. They
44:20
Speaker 1: have said that they're not investigating this as a hom side.
44:23
Speaker 1: That was one. But I got to tell you, just
44:28
Speaker 1: because you say you're not, they leave them.
44:32
Speaker 2: I've been down this road before.
44:34
Speaker 1: Just because they say they're not doesn't mean I'm doing
44:37
Speaker 1: air quotes right here. Doesn't mean that new information might develop. Yeah, okay,
44:42
Speaker 1: and not stupid. No, they're not and they're not going
44:46
Speaker 1: to show their hand. But they've just kind of this
44:50
Speaker 1: is really your strong suit here, just kind of lay
44:52
Speaker 1: out this lawsuit because it's well, they.
44:55
Speaker 4: File a wrongful death lawsuit. They filed it and they
44:58
Speaker 4: name names the family. This is the family of Noah
45:00
Speaker 4: Press Grove. And by the way, when you file a
45:03
Speaker 4: civil lawsuit, it's always monetary, right, But in this case,
45:08
Speaker 4: they're not asking for enough money, like they're asking for
45:11
Speaker 4: seventy five thousand dollars.
45:12
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hey, I got it.
45:14
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said this, because when I saw it,
45:15
Speaker 1: I was thinking, yeah, if this was my kid, you know,
45:20
Speaker 1: there's going to be a one at minimum with six
45:24
Speaker 1: digits after that. And I saw seventy five. Boy, the
45:28
Speaker 1: smacks of just trying to elicit information, and to me
45:31
Speaker 1: it does at least. Yeah, I want to know. I
45:34
Speaker 1: got to tell you this is the one thing about it.
45:36
Speaker 1: I know that that this is putting the onus on
45:39
Speaker 1: Noah here attorney. As we say, attorneys are going to attorney,
45:43
Speaker 1: that's what they do. But the fact that the Press
45:50
Speaker 1: Groves filed this lawsuit, Dave, I tell you what they're
45:54
Speaker 1: what we're staring down the barrel of here. We're going
45:56
Speaker 1: to be getting some depositions and they will be under
45:59
Speaker 1: a they will be so ordered by the court and
46:03
Speaker 1: somebody is going to have to go into a big
46:07
Speaker 1: oak paneled office somewhere with lots of fancy books in
46:11
Speaker 1: a room. They're going to sit at a big table,
46:13
Speaker 1: and there's going to be a court reporter sitting right there.
46:16
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a microphone in front of them, and
46:19
Speaker 1: the plaintiff will ask questions, and if they have an attorney,
46:22
Speaker 1: their attorney will try to deflect or reframe the thing,
46:28
Speaker 1: and there will be questions ask but the big question
46:33
Speaker 1: is will we actually get any answers. I'm Joseph Scott
46:39
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Backs