Latest / iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas / Build the Speedboat: How Small Startups Can Beat Much Bigger Competitors | iwon™ podcast | ep. 10 | Sachin Goyal

Transcript

Build the Speedboat: How Small Startups Can Beat Much Bigger Competitors | iwon™ podcast | ep. 10 | Sachin Goyal · iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas

• 0:00
  Welcome
• 0:00
  to
• 0:00
  iwon,
• 0:01
  which
• 0:01
  if
• 0:02
  you're
• 0:02
  not
• 0:02
  new
• 0:03
  here,
• 0:03
  you
• 0:03
  know
• 0:03
  it
• 0:04
  stands
• 0:04
  for
• 0:04
  it
• 0:04
  wasn't
• 0:05
  overnight,
• 0:05
  the
• 0:05
  podcast
• 0:06
  for
• 0:06
  B2B
• 0:07
  and
• 0:07
  SaaS
• 0:08
  founders
• 0:08
  who
• 0:09
  want
• 0:09
  real
• 0:09
  lessons,
• 0:10
  not
• 0:10
  just
• 0:10
  the
• 0:11
  polish
• 0:11
  after
• 0:12
  story.
• 0:12
  The
• 0:13
  reality
• 0:13
  of
• 0:13
  really
• 0:13
  building
• 0:14
  in
• 0:14
  the
• 0:14
  trenches.
• 0:15
  And
• 0:15
  today
• 0:15
  my
• 0:16
  guest
• 0:16
  is
• 0:16
  amazing.
• 0:17
  His
• 0:17
  name
• 0:17
  is
• 0:18
  Satchin
• 0:18
  Goyal
• 0:19
  and
• 0:19
  he
• 0:20
  is
• 0:20
  the
• 0:21
  founder
• 0:21
  of
• 0:21
  Clarity
• 0:21
  Loop.
• 0:22
  Now,
• 0:22
  on
• 0:22
  paper,
• 0:23
  Sachin
• 0:23
  is
• 0:24
  an
• 0:24
  incredible
• 0:25
  person
• 0:25
  with
• 0:26
  lots
• 0:26
  of
• 0:26
  experience
• 0:27
  in
• 0:27
  high
• 0:27
  growth
• 0:28
  tech,
• 0:28
  the
• 0:29
  sort
• 0:29
  of
• 0:29
  pedigree
• 0:30
  that
• 0:30
  most
• 0:30
  founders
• 0:30
  chase.
• 0:31
  He
• 0:31
  scaled
• 0:32
  Multiverse,
• 0:32
  Fanduel,
• 0:33
  so
• 0:34
  he
• 0:34
  knows
• 0:34
  a
• 0:34
  lot
• 0:34
  about
• 0:34
  hyperscale.
• 0:35
  But
• 0:35
  then
• 0:35
  he
• 0:36
  did
• 0:36
  something
• 0:36
  completely
• 0:37
  unexpected.
• 0:38
  He
• 0:38
  walked
• 0:38
  away
• 0:39
  from
• 0:39
  that
• 0:39
  hypergrowth
• 0:40
  environment,
• 0:40
  that
• 0:41
  corporate
• 0:41
  traditional
• 0:42
  sort
• 0:42
  of
• 0:43
  thing,
• 0:43
  and
• 0:44
  started
• 0:45
  to
• 0:45
  bootstrap
• 0:45
  his
• 0:46
  own
• 0:46
  thing
• 0:46
  from
• 0:46
  scratch.
• 0:47
  And
• 0:47
  if
• 0:47
  you
• 0:48
  think
• 0:48
  he's
• 0:49
  following
• 0:49
  the
• 0:49
  standard
• 0:50
  startup
• 0:50
  playbook,
• 0:51
  the
• 0:51
  stuff
• 0:51
  you
• 0:51
  hear
• 0:51
  from
• 0:51
  Y
• 0:52
  Combinator
• 0:52
  and
• 0:53
  whatever,
• 0:53
  you
• 0:54
  are
• 0:54
  totally
• 0:54
  mistaken.
• 0:55
  Sachin
• 0:56
  spent
• 0:56
  10
• 0:56
  months
• 0:57
  building
• 0:57
  a
• 0:58
  massive
• 0:58
  platform
• 0:59
  for
• 1:00
  a
• 1:00
  big
• 1:00
  enterprise
• 1:01
  client
• 1:01
  before
• 1:02
  charging
• 1:02
  them
• 1:02
  a
• 1:02
  single
• 1:03
  penny.
• 1:03
  Talk
• 1:03
  about
• 1:04
  building
• 1:04
  relationships.
• 1:05
  That
• 1:05
  is
• 1:06
  a
• 1:06
  lesson
• 1:07
  in
• 1:07
  and
• 1:07
  of
• 1:07
  itself.
• 1:07
  It's
• 1:08
  a
• 1:08
  totally
• 1:08
  different
• 1:08
  approach
• 1:09
  to
• 1:09
  what
• 1:09
  you
• 1:09
  hear
• 1:10
  elsewhere
• 1:10
  and
• 1:11
  it's
• 1:11
  worked
• 1:11
  well
• 1:12
  for
• 1:12
  him.
• 1:12
  Sachin,
• 1:13
  welcome
• 1:13
  to
• 1:13
  the
• 1:14
  show.
• 1:14
  Are
• 1:14
  you
• 1:14
  ready
• 1:15
  for
• 1:15
  lots
• 1:15
  of
• 1:15
  questions?
• 1:16
  Michael,
• 1:17
  thank
• 1:17
  you.
• 1:17
  It's
• 1:17
  my
• 1:18
  pleasure
• 1:18
  to
• 1:18
  be
• 1:18
  here
• 1:19
  and,
• 1:19
  and
• 1:19
  really
• 1:19
  looking
• 1:19
  forward
• 1:20
  to
• 1:20
  our
• 1:20
  conversation
• 1:20
  and
• 1:21
  I'm
• 1:21
  sure
• 1:21
  I'll
• 1:21
  learn
• 1:22
  a
• 1:22
  lot
• 1:22
  while
• 1:22
  answering
• 1:23
  your
• 1:23
  questions.
• 1:23
  I
• 1:23
  hope
• 1:24
  I
• 1:24
  learned
• 1:24
  a
• 1:24
  lot
• 1:24
  about
• 1:24
  you
• 1:25
  too
• 1:25
  and
• 1:25
  I
• 1:25
  hope
• 1:26
  everyone
• 1:26
  else
• 1:26
  does.
• 1:26
  Obviously
• 1:27
  you
• 1:27
  scaled
• 1:28
  fanduel
• 1:29
  to
• 1:29
  his
• 1:29
  massive
• 1:30
  rise
• 1:30
  and
• 1:30
  grew
• 1:30
  Multiverse
• 1:32
  and
• 1:32
  their
• 1:32
  engineering
• 1:33
  team
• 1:33
  by
• 1:33
  four
• 1:34
  times
• 1:34
  in
• 1:34
  eight
• 1:34
  months.
• 1:35
  Why
• 1:35
  turn
• 1:36
  your
• 1:36
  back
• 1:36
  on
• 1:37
  that
• 1:37
  sort
• 1:37
  of
• 1:37
  hypergrowth
• 1:38
  stuff
• 1:39
  to
• 1:39
  start
• 1:40
  bootstrapping
• 1:40
  your
• 1:41
  own
• 1:41
  thing?
• 1:41
  A
• 1:41
  major
• 1:42
  reason
• 1:42
  has
• 1:42
  been
• 1:43
  my
• 1:43
  passion
• 1:44
  for
• 1:44
  the
• 1:44
  problem,
• 1:45
  something
• 1:45
  which
• 1:46
  over
• 1:46
  time
• 1:46
  I
• 1:46
  got
• 1:47
  addicted
• 1:47
  to.
• 1:48
  At
• 1:48
  some
• 1:48
  point
• 1:48
  I
• 1:48
  just
• 1:48
  felt
• 1:49
  like
• 1:50
  something
• 1:50
  has
• 1:50
  to
• 1:50
  be
• 1:50
  done
• 1:50
  about
• 1:51
  it
• 1:51
  and
• 1:51
  I'm
• 1:51
  really
• 1:52
  well
• 1:52
  paced
• 1:52
  to
• 1:52
  do
• 1:53
  something
• 1:53
  about
• 1:53
  it.
• 1:53
  So
• 1:54
  this
• 1:54
  is
• 1:54
  the
• 1:54
  time
• 1:54
  for
• 1:55
  me
• 1:55
  to
• 1:55
  do
• 1:55
  it.
• 1:55
  The
• 1:55
  other,
• 1:56
  I
• 1:56
  suppose
• 1:56
  like
• 1:57
  the
• 1:57
  catalyst
• 1:58
  that
• 1:58
  worked
• 1:58
  in
• 1:58
  my
• 1:59
  favor
• 1:59
  or
• 2:00
  that
• 2:00
  sort
• 2:00
  of
• 2:00
  helped
• 2:01
  me
• 2:01
  made
• 2:01
  that
• 2:01
  decision
• 2:01
  was
• 2:02
  the
• 2:02
  decent
• 2:02
  advancements
• 2:03
  in
• 2:03
  AI.
• 2:04
  So
• 2:04
  some
• 2:04
  of
• 2:04
  the
• 2:04
  crazy
• 2:05
  ideas
• 2:05
  had,
• 2:06
  I
• 2:06
  thought
• 2:06
  were
• 2:07
  really
• 2:07
  hard
• 2:07
  to
• 2:07
  implement
• 2:08
  before
• 2:08
  AI
• 2:09
  became
• 2:09
  more
• 2:09
  accessible,
• 2:10
  more
• 2:10
  say
• 2:11
  mainstream.
• 2:11
  But
• 2:12
  then
• 2:12
  once
• 2:12
  that
• 2:12
  happened,
• 2:13
  I
• 2:13
  thought,
• 2:13
  oh
• 2:13
  my
• 2:13
  God,
• 2:14
  some
• 2:14
  of
• 2:14
  those
• 2:14
  things
• 2:14
  which
• 2:15
  we
• 2:15
  just
• 2:15
  dreamed
• 2:15
  about
• 2:15
  are
• 2:16
  now
• 2:16
  possible,
• 2:17
  so
• 2:17
  let's
• 2:17
  just
• 2:17
  do
• 2:17
  it.
• 2:17
  So
• 2:18
  that
• 2:18
  was
• 2:18
  the
• 2:18
  main
• 2:18
  reason,
• 2:18
  I
• 2:19
  would
• 2:19
  say.
• 2:19
  And
• 2:19
  what
• 2:19
  were
• 2:20
  the
• 2:20
  things
• 2:20
  that
• 2:20
  you
• 2:20
  dreamed
• 2:21
  about
• 2:21
  that
• 2:21
  you
• 2:21
  didn't
• 2:22
  think
• 2:22
  were
• 2:22
  possible
• 2:22
  in
• 2:23
  terms
• 2:23
  of
• 2:23
  features?
• 2:24
  I
• 2:24
  think
• 2:24
  one
• 2:24
  of
• 2:24
  the
• 2:24
  things
• 2:25
  which
• 2:25
  I
• 2:25
  always
• 2:26
  dreamed
• 2:26
  about
• 2:27
  was
• 2:28
  I
• 2:28
  hated
• 2:29
  sitting
• 2:29
  in
• 2:29
  the
• 2:29
  performance
• 2:30
  review
• 2:30
  processes
• 2:31
  either
• 2:31
  being
• 2:32
  assessed
• 2:32
  myself,
• 2:33
  like
• 2:33
  assessing
• 2:34
  myself
• 2:34
  or
• 2:34
  assessing
• 2:35
  somebody
• 2:35
  else.
• 2:35
  Part
• 2:35
  of
• 2:35
  me
• 2:36
  always
• 2:36
  felt
• 2:36
  like
• 2:36
  this
• 2:36
  is
• 2:36
  a
• 2:37
  bit
• 2:37
  of
• 2:37
  an
• 2:37
  exercise
• 2:38
  that
• 2:38
  we
• 2:38
  all
• 2:38
  have
• 2:38
  to
• 2:38
  do.
• 2:39
  There's
• 2:39
  a
• 2:39
  lot
• 2:39
  of
• 2:40
  choreography
• 2:40
  involved
• 2:41
  into
• 2:41
  this
• 2:41
  exercise,
• 2:42
  but
• 2:42
  the
• 2:42
  real
• 2:42
  substance
• 2:43
  is
• 2:43
  missing.
• 2:43
  I
• 2:43
  used
• 2:44
  a
• 2:44
  dream.
• 2:44
  Would
• 2:44
  it
• 2:44
  not
• 2:45
  be
• 2:45
  great
• 2:46
  if
• 2:46
  somebody
• 2:46
  else
• 2:46
  did
• 2:47
  all
• 2:47
  the
• 2:47
  grunt
• 2:47
  work,
• 2:47
  somebody
• 2:48
  else
• 2:48
  did
• 2:48
  all
• 2:48
  the
• 2:48
  work
• 2:49
  that
• 2:49
  I've,
• 2:49
  I've
• 2:50
  done
• 2:50
  my
• 2:50
  job
• 2:50
  or
• 2:51
  doing
• 2:51
  my
• 2:52
  job.
• 2:52
  Why
• 2:53
  do
• 2:53
  I
• 2:53
  have
• 2:53
  to
• 2:53
  prove
• 2:53
  what
• 2:53
  I
• 2:54
  did?
• 2:54
  It's
• 2:54
  almost
• 2:54
  like
• 2:55
  having
• 2:55
  some
• 2:55
  sort
• 2:56
  of
• 2:56
  co
• 2:56
  pilot.
• 2:57
  Now
• 2:57
  we
• 2:57
  are
• 2:57
  using
• 2:58
  that
• 2:58
  term,
• 2:58
  but
• 2:58
  like
• 2:58
  somebody
• 2:59
  who
• 2:59
  could
• 2:59
  take
• 2:59
  care
• 3:00
  of
• 3:00
  just
• 3:01
  presenting
• 3:01
  me
• 3:01
  in
• 3:01
  the
• 3:02
  best
• 3:02
  possible
• 3:02
  way
• 3:02
  rather
• 3:03
  than
• 3:03
  me
• 3:03
  doing
• 3:03
  it.
• 3:03
  And
• 3:04
  I
• 3:04
  don't
• 3:04
  know
• 3:04
  if
• 3:04
  you
• 3:04
  already
• 3:04
  found
• 3:05
  it
• 3:05
  out
• 3:05
  so
• 3:05
  far
• 3:06
  or
• 3:06
  not.
• 3:06
  I'm
• 3:07
  not
• 3:07
  a
• 3:07
  really
• 3:07
  good
• 3:07
  communicator
• 3:08
  or
• 3:08
  my
• 3:08
  English
• 3:08
  is
• 3:09
  not
• 3:09
  my
• 3:09
  first
• 3:09
  language,
• 3:10
  so
• 3:10
  I
• 3:10
  definitely
• 3:11
  struggle
• 3:11
  with
• 3:11
  that
• 3:11
  as
• 3:12
  well.
• 3:12
  These
• 3:12
  are
• 3:12
  the
• 3:12
  sort
• 3:12
  of
• 3:12
  things.
• 3:13
  And
• 3:13
  now
• 3:13
  I'm
• 3:14
  sure
• 3:14
  you
• 3:14
  could
• 3:14
  see
• 3:15
  with
• 3:15
  the
• 3:15
  kind
• 3:15
  of
• 3:15
  tools
• 3:15
  we
• 3:15
  have
• 3:16
  at
• 3:16
  our
• 3:16
  disposal,
• 3:17
  the
• 3:17
  tools
• 3:17
  which
• 3:17
  can
• 3:18
  connect
• 3:18
  to
• 3:18
  the
• 3:18
  workflows,
• 3:19
  tools
• 3:19
  which
• 3:20
  can
• 3:20
  connect
• 3:20
  to
• 3:20
  your
• 3:20
  work,
• 3:21
  analyze
• 3:21
  the
• 3:21
  work
• 3:22
  patterns,
• 3:22
  analyze
• 3:23
  your.
• 3:24
  What
• 3:24
  you're
• 3:24
  up
• 3:24
  to
• 3:25
  in
• 3:25
  a
• 3:25
  sensible
• 3:25
  way
• 3:26
  and
• 3:26
  not
• 3:26
  in
• 3:26
  a
• 3:26
  creepy
• 3:27
  way,
• 3:27
  and
• 3:27
  then
• 3:27
  present
• 3:28
  yourself
• 3:29
  as
• 3:29
  the
• 3:29
  best
• 3:29
  version
• 3:30
  of
• 3:30
  you,
• 3:30
  but
• 3:30
  not
• 3:30
  just
• 3:30
  presenting.
• 3:31
  I
• 3:31
  think
• 3:31
  it
• 3:31
  opens
• 3:32
  up
• 3:32
  a
• 3:32
  different
• 3:32
  possibility
• 3:32
  altogether
• 3:33
  where
• 3:34
  you
• 3:34
  could
• 3:34
  actually
• 3:35
  become
• 3:35
  better
• 3:35
  version
• 3:36
  of
• 3:36
  yourself
• 3:36
  by
• 3:37
  knowing
• 3:37
  about
• 3:38
  those
• 3:38
  things
• 3:38
  ahead
• 3:38
  of
• 3:38
  the
• 3:38
  time.
• 3:39
  This
• 3:39
  was
• 3:39
  one
• 3:39
  of
• 3:39
  the.
• 3:40
  So
• 3:40
  just
• 3:40
  to
• 3:40
  be
• 3:40
  more
• 3:41
  concrete,
• 3:41
  I
• 3:41
  suppose
• 3:41
  as,
• 3:42
  as
• 3:42
  engineer,
• 3:42
  my
• 3:43
  responsibility
• 3:43
  was
• 3:44
  writing
• 3:44
  cod,
• 3:45
  reviewing
• 3:46
  code,
• 3:46
  reviewing
• 3:46
  people's
• 3:47
  designs,
• 3:47
  their
• 3:48
  architecture
• 3:48
  approach,
• 3:49
  et
• 3:49
  cetera,
• 3:49
  et
• 3:50
  cetera.
• 3:50
  What
• 3:50
  is
• 3:50
  now
• 3:50
  possible
• 3:51
  is
• 3:51
  that
• 3:52
  one
• 3:53
  of
• 3:53
  the
• 3:53
  things
• 3:53
  that
• 3:53
  Cloudyloop
• 3:54
  really
• 3:54
  does
• 3:54
  very
• 3:55
  well
• 3:55
  is
• 3:55
  let's
• 3:56
  say
• 3:56
  if
• 3:56
  a
• 3:56
  team
• 3:56
  of
• 3:57
  engineers
• 3:57
  working
• 3:57
  together,
• 3:58
  they're
• 3:58
  just
• 3:58
  collaborating,
• 3:59
  do
• 3:59
  their
• 3:59
  day
• 3:59
  to
• 3:59
  day
• 4:00
  job
• 4:00
  and
• 4:00
  it
• 4:01
  is
• 4:01
  able
• 4:01
  to
• 4:01
  analyze
• 4:02
  their
• 4:02
  work
• 4:02
  patterns
• 4:03
  and
• 4:03
  then
• 4:04
  put
• 4:04
  them
• 4:04
  into
• 4:04
  this
• 4:05
  sort
• 4:05
  of
• 4:05
  pattern.
• 4:05
  And
• 4:06
  if
• 4:06
  there's
• 4:06
  a
• 4:06
  pattern
• 4:06
  that
• 4:07
  is
• 4:07
  evolving,
• 4:07
  it
• 4:08
  starts
• 4:08
  to
• 4:08
  nudge
• 4:09
  people,
• 4:09
  notify
• 4:09
  people
• 4:10
  at
• 4:10
  the
• 4:10
  right
• 4:10
  time
• 4:11
  for
• 4:11
  them
• 4:11
  to
• 4:11
  do
• 4:12
  something
• 4:12
  about
• 4:12
  it.
• 4:12
  So
• 4:13
  this
• 4:13
  is
• 4:13
  partially
• 4:13
  the
• 4:14
  dream
• 4:14
  that
• 4:14
  is
• 4:14
  almost
• 4:15
  like
• 4:15
  fulfilling
• 4:16
  now
• 4:16
  is
• 4:16
  that
• 4:17
  feedback
• 4:18
  or
• 4:19
  performance
• 4:19
  or
• 4:20
  reviews,
• 4:21
  but
• 4:21
  not
• 4:21
  something
• 4:21
  separate.
• 4:22
  They
• 4:22
  were
• 4:23
  somewhere
• 4:23
  in
• 4:24
  the
• 4:24
  work
• 4:24
  that
• 4:24
  we
• 4:24
  were
• 4:24
  all
• 4:25
  doing.
• 4:25
  We
• 4:26
  just
• 4:26
  had
• 4:26
  to
• 4:27
  separate
• 4:28
  out
• 4:28
  that
• 4:28
  from
• 4:29
  the
• 4:29
  real
• 4:29
  work.
• 4:30
  So
• 4:30
  now
• 4:30
  because
• 4:31
  something
• 4:31
  is
• 4:31
  doing
• 4:31
  it
• 4:31
  on
• 4:32
  a
• 4:32
  regular
• 4:32
  basis
• 4:32
  and
• 4:33
  without
• 4:34
  getting
• 4:34
  tired,
• 4:35
  it's
• 4:35
  much
• 4:35
  better
• 4:36
  to
• 4:36
  have
• 4:37
  those
• 4:37
  signals,
• 4:37
  those
• 4:37
  ideas,
• 4:38
  those
• 4:39
  prompts
• 4:39
  ahead
• 4:40
  of
• 4:40
  the
• 4:40
  time
• 4:40
  and
• 4:40
  then
• 4:40
  do
• 4:40
  something
• 4:41
  about
• 4:41
  it.
• 4:41
  From
• 4:41
  what
• 4:42
  I
• 4:42
  hear
• 4:42
  you
• 4:42
  saying,
• 4:43
  you're
• 4:44
  addressing
• 4:44
  that
• 4:45
  need
• 4:45
  where
• 4:46
  when
• 4:46
  you
• 4:47
  need
• 4:47
  to
• 4:47
  Sit
• 4:47
  down
• 4:47
  with
• 4:48
  your
• 4:48
  team
• 4:48
  and
• 4:48
  analyze
• 4:49
  how
• 4:49
  everybody's
• 4:49
  getting
• 4:49
  on.
• 4:50
  It's
• 4:50
  about
• 4:51
  creating
• 4:51
  a
• 4:51
  real
• 4:51
  win
• 4:52
  win,
• 4:52
  right?
• 4:52
  Like
• 4:53
  as
• 4:53
  in
• 4:54
  it's
• 4:54
  easy.
• 4:55
  It's
• 4:55
  just
• 4:55
  as
• 4:56
  easy
• 4:56
  for
• 4:56
  the
• 4:56
  employee
• 4:57
  to
• 4:57
  forget
• 4:57
  what
• 4:58
  they've
• 4:58
  done
• 4:59
  as
• 5:00
  it
• 5:00
  is
• 5:00
  for
• 5:01
  the
• 5:02
  manager,
• 5:03
  I
• 5:03
  suppose,
• 5:03
  to
• 5:03
  really
• 5:04
  be
• 5:04
  able
• 5:04
  to
• 5:04
  fully
• 5:05
  analyze
• 5:06
  the
• 5:06
  output
• 5:06
  of
• 5:06
  somebody
• 5:07
  on
• 5:07
  a.
• 5:08
  Whether
• 5:08
  it's
• 5:08
  monthly,
• 5:09
  quarterly,
• 5:09
  whatever
• 5:10
  basis.
• 5:10
  Is
• 5:11
  that
• 5:11
  what
• 5:11
  you're
• 5:11
  saying?
• 5:11
  Essentially
• 5:12
  that's
• 5:12
  what
• 5:12
  you're
• 5:13
  trying
• 5:13
  to
• 5:13
  solve.
• 5:13
  That's
• 5:14
  definitely
• 5:14
  one
• 5:15
  change
• 5:15
  that
• 5:16
  we
• 5:16
  are
• 5:16
  trying
• 5:16
  to
• 5:16
  drive.
• 5:17
  But
• 5:17
  if
• 5:17
  we
• 5:17
  are
• 5:18
  able
• 5:18
  to
• 5:18
  drive
• 5:18
  that,
• 5:19
  it
• 5:19
  also
• 5:19
  opens
• 5:20
  up
• 5:20
  some
• 5:20
  really
• 5:21
  big
• 5:21
  opportunities
• 5:22
  where
• 5:23
  managers
• 5:23
  are
• 5:23
  not
• 5:24
  just
• 5:24
  there
• 5:24
  to
• 5:24
  assess,
• 5:25
  they're
• 5:25
  also
• 5:26
  there
• 5:26
  to
• 5:26
  help
• 5:26
  or
• 5:27
  coach.
• 5:27
  Right?
• 5:28
  And
• 5:28
  for
• 5:28
  that
• 5:29
  they
• 5:29
  need
• 5:29
  the
• 5:29
  right
• 5:29
  sort
• 5:29
  of
• 5:30
  signals,
• 5:30
  right?
• 5:30
  Sort
• 5:30
  of
• 5:30
  data,
• 5:31
  right
• 5:31
  kind
• 5:31
  of
• 5:31
  visibility
• 5:32
  in,
• 5:32
  into
• 5:33
  things
• 5:33
  which
• 5:33
  are
• 5:33
  really
• 5:34
  hard
• 5:34
  to
• 5:34
  get.
• 5:34
  And
• 5:35
  also
• 5:35
  without
• 5:36
  any
• 5:36
  biases,
• 5:36
  since
• 5:37
  we
• 5:37
  are
• 5:37
  doing
• 5:37
  that
• 5:37
  work,
• 5:38
  why
• 5:38
  not
• 5:39
  do
• 5:39
  it
• 5:39
  pretty
• 5:40
  much
• 5:40
  on
• 5:40
  steroids,
• 5:41
  right?
• 5:41
  Managers
• 5:42
  have
• 5:42
  that
• 5:42
  visibility,
• 5:43
  that
• 5:43
  insight,
• 5:44
  and
• 5:45
  also
• 5:45
  the
• 5:45
  individuals,
• 5:46
  right?
• 5:46
  So
• 5:46
  they
• 5:46
  can
• 5:46
  themselves
• 5:47
  control
• 5:48
  their
• 5:48
  own
• 5:48
  career.
• 5:49
  But
• 5:49
  managers
• 5:50
  are
• 5:50
  also
• 5:50
  able
• 5:50
  to
• 5:51
  support
• 5:51
  and
• 5:51
  grow
• 5:52
  them,
• 5:52
  help
• 5:52
  them
• 5:52
  at
• 5:53
  the
• 5:53
  right
• 5:53
  time,
• 5:53
  at
• 5:53
  the
• 5:53
  right
• 5:53
  moment.
• 5:54
  Are
• 5:54
  traditional
• 5:55
  HR
• 5:56
  practices
• 5:57
  totally
• 5:57
  outdated?
• 5:58
  Would
• 5:58
  that
• 5:58
  be
• 5:58
  fair
• 5:59
  or
• 5:59
  not?
• 6:00
  They
• 6:00
  have
• 6:00
  been
• 6:00
  outdated
• 6:00
  for
• 6:01
  a
• 6:01
  very
• 6:02
  long
• 6:02
  time.
• 6:02
  Honestly,
• 6:02
  I
• 6:02
  think
• 6:03
  it's
• 6:03
  been
• 6:03
  One
• 6:03
  of
• 6:03
  my
• 6:04
  constant
• 6:05
  frustration
• 6:06
  is
• 6:07
  that
• 6:07
  like
• 6:08
  the,
• 6:09
  the
• 6:09
  real
• 6:09
  HR
• 6:10
  processes
• 6:10
  especially
• 6:10
  which
• 6:11
  are
• 6:11
  related
• 6:11
  to
• 6:12
  engagement
• 6:12
  and
• 6:13
  growth
• 6:13
  and
• 6:13
  sort
• 6:14
  of
• 6:14
  performance,
• 6:15
  they
• 6:15
  are
• 6:16
  very
• 6:16
  old,
• 6:16
  designed
• 6:17
  for
• 6:17
  big
• 6:17
  enterprises
• 6:18
  which
• 6:18
  have
• 6:19
  a
• 6:19
  certain
• 6:19
  structure
• 6:20
  in
• 6:20
  place.
• 6:21
  Things
• 6:21
  don't
• 6:22
  change
• 6:22
  that
• 6:22
  often.
• 6:23
  So
• 6:23
  you
• 6:23
  can
• 6:23
  get
• 6:23
  away
• 6:24
  by
• 6:24
  just
• 6:24
  doing
• 6:24
  this
• 6:25
  sort
• 6:25
  of
• 6:25
  form
• 6:25
  fitting
• 6:26
  exercise.
• 6:27
  But
• 6:27
  the
• 6:27
  reality
• 6:27
  of
• 6:28
  the
• 6:28
  modern
• 6:28
  workplace
• 6:29
  is
• 6:29
  like
• 6:29
  people,
• 6:30
  teams,
• 6:30
  everything
• 6:31
  is
• 6:31
  changing
• 6:31
  almost
• 6:31
  every
• 6:32
  week.
• 6:32
  So
• 6:32
  trying
• 6:32
  to
• 6:33
  force
• 6:33
  that
• 6:33
  into
• 6:33
  this
• 6:34
  new
• 6:34
  thing
• 6:35
  has
• 6:35
  always
• 6:35
  been
• 6:36
  the
• 6:36
  problem.
• 6:37
  And
• 6:37
  I'm
• 6:38
  not
• 6:38
  saying
• 6:38
  it
• 6:38
  myself.
• 6:39
  I
• 6:39
  think
• 6:39
  if
• 6:39
  you
• 6:39
  talk
• 6:40
  to
• 6:40
  anyone,
• 6:40
  especially
• 6:41
  people
• 6:41
  working
• 6:42
  in
• 6:42
  slightly
• 6:42
  bigger
• 6:43
  companies,
• 6:43
  they'll
• 6:44
  probably
• 6:44
  agree
• 6:44
  with
• 6:44
  me.
• 6:45
  They
• 6:45
  all
• 6:45
  know
• 6:45
  deep
• 6:45
  down
• 6:46
  this
• 6:46
  is
• 6:46
  not,
• 6:47
  this
• 6:48
  is
• 6:48
  definitely
• 6:48
  not
• 6:48
  fun.
• 6:49
  It's
• 6:49
  not
• 6:49
  really
• 6:50
  the
• 6:50
  most
• 6:50
  effective
• 6:51
  way
• 6:51
  of
• 6:51
  doing
• 6:51
  it.
• 6:52
  How
• 6:52
  highly
• 6:53
  inefficient,
• 6:54
  right.
• 6:54
  And
• 6:54
  very
• 6:55
  cost,
• 6:55
  costly
• 6:56
  thing
• 6:56
  that
• 6:56
  we
• 6:56
  all
• 6:57
  do.
• 6:57
  But
• 6:57
  the
• 6:57
  thing
• 6:58
  is
• 6:58
  like
• 6:58
  what
• 6:58
  is
• 6:58
  the
• 6:58
  alternative?
• 6:59
  Right?
• 6:59
  Alternative
• 7:00
  has
• 7:00
  been
• 7:00
  really
• 7:01
  hard,
• 7:01
  honestly.
• 7:01
  Like
• 7:02
  providing
• 7:02
  an
• 7:02
  alternative
• 7:02
  has
• 7:03
  been
• 7:03
  hard.
• 7:03
  So
• 7:03
  hopefully
• 7:04
  like
• 7:04
  what
• 7:04
  we're
• 7:04
  doing
• 7:04
  with
• 7:04
  Clarity
• 7:05
  Loop
• 7:05
  makes
• 7:06
  that
• 7:06
  makes
• 7:07
  a
• 7:07
  difference.
• 7:07
  You
• 7:08
  mentioned
• 7:08
  about
• 7:08
  this
• 7:09
  idea
• 7:09
  of
• 7:10
  having
• 7:10
  the
• 7:10
  dream
• 7:11
  set
• 7:11
  of
• 7:11
  features
• 7:11
  that
• 7:12
  you
• 7:12
  could
• 7:12
  build.
• 7:13
  Did
• 7:13
  you
• 7:13
  start
• 7:14
  Clarity
• 7:14
  Loop
• 7:15
  because
• 7:16
  you
• 7:16
  solved
• 7:16
  the
• 7:17
  problem
• 7:18
  with
• 7:18
  AI
• 7:18
  or
• 7:19
  because
• 7:19
  of
• 7:19
  AI,
• 7:20
  or
• 7:22
  are
• 7:22
  you
• 7:22
  saying
• 7:23
  that
• 7:23
  it
• 7:23
  just.
• 7:23
  The
• 7:24
  timing
• 7:24
  was
• 7:24
  right
• 7:25
  as
• 7:25
  well?
• 7:25
  And,
• 7:25
  and
• 7:26
  there
• 7:26
  were
• 7:26
  a
• 7:26
  variety
• 7:27
  of
• 7:27
  factors
• 7:27
  And
• 7:27
  I'm
• 7:28
  asking
• 7:28
  that
• 7:28
  question
• 7:29
  because
• 7:29
  there
• 7:29
  are
• 7:30
  a
• 7:30
  lot
• 7:30
  of
• 7:30
  founders
• 7:30
  out
• 7:30
  there
• 7:31
  with
• 7:31
  ideas
• 7:32
  they
• 7:32
  think
• 7:32
  are
• 7:32
  amazing.
• 7:32
  And
• 7:33
  they
• 7:33
  may
• 7:33
  or
• 7:33
  may
• 7:33
  not
• 7:33
  be.
• 7:34
  I
• 7:34
  can't
• 7:34
  judge
• 7:35
  the
• 7:35
  market,
• 7:35
  judges
• 7:36
  fundamentally
• 7:37
  who
• 7:38
  are
• 7:38
  looking
• 7:38
  at
• 7:38
  AI
• 7:39
  and
• 7:39
  thinking
• 7:39
  I
• 7:39
  can
• 7:40
  build
• 7:40
  anything,
• 7:40
  right?
• 7:41
  The
• 7:41
  whole
• 7:41
  imagination
• 7:42
  dream
• 7:42
  thing,
• 7:43
  do
• 7:43
  you
• 7:43
  feel
• 7:45
  that
• 7:46
  you
• 7:46
  started
• 7:46
  it
• 7:47
  because
• 7:47
  you'd
• 7:47
  finally
• 7:47
  solved
• 7:48
  the
• 7:48
  problem
• 7:48
  thanks
• 7:49
  to
• 7:49
  AI,
• 7:49
  or
• 7:50
  did
• 7:50
  AI
• 7:51
  make
• 7:51
  the
• 7:51
  whole
• 7:51
  process
• 7:52
  so
• 7:52
  much
• 7:52
  simpler
• 7:54
  from
• 7:54
  every
• 7:54
  perspective?
• 7:55
  The
• 7:56
  way
• 7:56
  I
• 7:56
  approached
• 7:56
  it
• 7:56
  is,
• 7:57
  look,
• 7:57
  I
• 7:57
  was
• 7:58
  like
• 7:58
  I
• 7:59
  was
• 7:59
  in
• 7:59
  a
• 7:59
  very
• 7:59
  well
• 7:59
  paid
• 8:00
  job
• 8:00
  and
• 8:00
  I
• 8:01
  think
• 8:01
  for
• 8:01
  me
• 8:01
  to
• 8:01
  come
• 8:02
  out
• 8:02
  of
• 8:02
  that
• 8:02
  and
• 8:03
  not
• 8:03
  earning
• 8:04
  any
• 8:04
  money
• 8:05
  should
• 8:05
  have
• 8:05
  been
• 8:05
  well
• 8:06
  justified,
• 8:06
  right?
• 8:07
  I
• 8:07
  think
• 8:07
  for
• 8:08
  that
• 8:08
  to
• 8:08
  be
• 8:08
  able
• 8:09
  to
• 8:09
  justify
• 8:09
  it,
• 8:09
  I
• 8:09
  needed
• 8:09
  to
• 8:10
  really
• 8:10
  prove
• 8:10
  that
• 8:10
  idea
• 8:11
  before
• 8:11
  I
• 8:11
  spend
• 8:11
  even
• 8:12
  a
• 8:12
  single
• 8:12
  hour
• 8:13
  on
• 8:13
  that
• 8:13
  problem.
• 8:13
  So
• 8:14
  one
• 8:14
  of
• 8:14
  the
• 8:14
  things
• 8:14
  I
• 8:14
  tried
• 8:14
  to
• 8:15
  do
• 8:15
  in
• 8:15
  the
• 8:15
  beginning
• 8:15
  was
• 8:16
  talk
• 8:16
  to
• 8:16
  as
• 8:17
  many
• 8:17
  people
• 8:17
  as
• 8:17
  I
• 8:17
  can
• 8:17
  and
• 8:18
  I
• 8:18
  definitely
• 8:18
  use
• 8:18
  my
• 8:19
  connections,
• 8:19
  right?
• 8:19
  I
• 8:19
  was
• 8:19
  in
• 8:20
  the
• 8:20
  senior
• 8:20
  leadership
• 8:21
  positions,
• 8:22
  working
• 8:22
  as
• 8:22
  VP
• 8:23
  of
• 8:23
  engineering,
• 8:23
  director
• 8:23
  of
• 8:24
  engineering
• 8:24
  or
• 8:24
  whatnot.
• 8:24
  Lots
• 8:25
  of
• 8:25
  similar
• 8:25
  minded
• 8:26
  people
• 8:26
  who
• 8:27
  were,
• 8:27
  we
• 8:27
  were
• 8:27
  always
• 8:28
  kind
• 8:28
  of
• 8:28
  discussing
• 8:28
  this
• 8:29
  problem
• 8:29
  because
• 8:30
  if
• 8:30
  you
• 8:30
  ask
• 8:30
  any
• 8:30
  engineering
• 8:31
  leader
• 8:31
  what
• 8:31
  is
• 8:31
  your
• 8:32
  number
• 8:32
  one
• 8:32
  priority,
• 8:33
  they
• 8:33
  will
• 8:33
  all
• 8:33
  say,
• 8:33
  I
• 8:34
  want
• 8:34
  to
• 8:34
  have
• 8:34
  a
• 8:34
  high
• 8:34
  performance
• 8:35
  culture,
• 8:35
  right?
• 8:36
  So
• 8:36
  I
• 8:36
  spoke
• 8:37
  to
• 8:37
  a
• 8:37
  lot
• 8:37
  of
• 8:37
  my
• 8:37
  colleagues,
• 8:38
  lot
• 8:38
  of
• 8:38
  friends,
• 8:39
  a
• 8:39
  lot
• 8:39
  of
• 8:39
  people
• 8:39
  I
• 8:40
  worked
• 8:40
  with
• 8:40
  in
• 8:40
  the
• 8:40
  past,
• 8:41
  and
• 8:41
  I
• 8:41
  think
• 8:41
  almost
• 8:41
  like
• 8:42
  validating
• 8:42
  my
• 8:43
  assumption,
• 8:43
  right?
• 8:44
  And
• 8:44
  I
• 8:44
  tried
• 8:44
  to
• 8:45
  ask
• 8:45
  them
• 8:45
  question
• 8:46
  in
• 8:46
  a
• 8:46
  way
• 8:46
  that
• 8:46
  doesn't
• 8:47
  influence
• 8:47
  their
• 8:47
  answers
• 8:48
  as
• 8:48
  much
• 8:48
  as
• 8:48
  possible.
• 8:48
  I'm
• 8:49
  sure
• 8:49
  everyone
• 8:49
  heard
• 8:50
  of
• 8:50
  this
• 8:50
  book
• 8:50
  called
• 8:50
  the
• 8:51
  Mount
• 8:51
  Test.
• 8:51
  I
• 8:51
  probably
• 8:52
  didn't
• 8:52
  follow
• 8:52
  it
• 8:52
  by
• 8:53
  heart,
• 8:53
  but
• 8:53
  I
• 8:54
  tried
• 8:54
  to
• 8:54
  follow
• 8:55
  that
• 8:55
  advice
• 8:56
  where
• 8:57
  don't
• 8:57
  try
• 8:57
  to
• 8:57
  put
• 8:58
  words
• 8:58
  in
• 8:58
  their
• 8:58
  mouth,
• 8:59
  don't
• 8:59
  try
• 8:59
  to
• 8:59
  convey
• 8:59
  them
• 9:00
  into
• 9:00
  certain
• 9:00
  way,
• 9:01
  let
• 9:01
  that
• 9:01
  come
• 9:01
  out.
• 9:01
  And
• 9:02
  then
• 9:02
  you
• 9:02
  start
• 9:02
  to
• 9:02
  see
• 9:03
  if
• 9:03
  this
• 9:03
  is
• 9:03
  what
• 9:03
  you're
• 9:03
  thinking
• 9:04
  is
• 9:04
  exactly
• 9:05
  something
• 9:05
  there
• 9:06
  or
• 9:06
  not.
• 9:06
  And
• 9:06
  then
• 9:06
  I
• 9:06
  think
• 9:06
  once
• 9:07
  I
• 9:07
  got,
• 9:08
  once
• 9:08
  I
• 9:08
  went
• 9:08
  through
• 9:08
  that
• 9:09
  exercise,
• 9:09
  I
• 9:10
  definitely
• 9:10
  saw
• 9:11
  some
• 9:11
  people,
• 9:12
  some
• 9:12
  very
• 9:12
  senior
• 9:13
  leaders
• 9:13
  were
• 9:14
  like
• 9:14
  really
• 9:15
  excited
• 9:15
  about
• 9:15
  this
• 9:16
  problem.
• 9:16
  So
• 9:17
  I
• 9:17
  don't
• 9:18
  think
• 9:18
  even
• 9:18
  they
• 9:18
  understood
• 9:19
  the
• 9:19
  solution.
• 9:19
  We
• 9:19
  were
• 9:20
  not
• 9:20
  even
• 9:20
  talking
• 9:20
  about
• 9:20
  the
• 9:20
  solution
• 9:21
  at
• 9:21
  that
• 9:21
  point.
• 9:21
  We're
• 9:22
  just
• 9:22
  talking
• 9:22
  about
• 9:22
  the
• 9:22
  problem,
• 9:23
  right?
• 9:23
  And
• 9:24
  it's
• 9:24
  okay,
• 9:24
  we'll
• 9:24
  figure
• 9:24
  out
• 9:25
  the
• 9:25
  solution.
• 9:25
  Got
• 9:26
  some
• 9:26
  ideas
• 9:26
  on
• 9:26
  the
• 9:27
  high
• 9:27
  level,
• 9:27
  right?
• 9:27
  How
• 9:28
  do
• 9:28
  you
• 9:28
  solve
• 9:28
  it?
• 9:28
  But
• 9:29
  then
• 9:29
  is
• 9:29
  this
• 9:29
  a
• 9:30
  real
• 9:30
  problem?
• 9:30
  Is
• 9:30
  this
• 9:30
  something
• 9:31
  that
• 9:31
  we
• 9:31
  can
• 9:31
  actually
• 9:32
  do,
• 9:32
  do
• 9:32
  something
• 9:32
  about?
• 9:33
  And
• 9:33
  then
• 9:33
  in
• 9:33
  the
• 9:33
  beginning
• 9:34
  when
• 9:34
  I
• 9:34
  was
• 9:34
  talking
• 9:34
  to
• 9:34
  a
• 9:35
  lot
• 9:35
  of
• 9:35
  people,
• 9:36
  then
• 9:36
  about
• 9:37
  four
• 9:37
  or
• 9:37
  five
• 9:38
  sort
• 9:38
  of
• 9:39
  leaders
• 9:39
  in
• 9:40
  that
• 9:40
  space,
• 9:40
  they
• 9:41
  got
• 9:41
  really
• 9:41
  excited
• 9:41
  about
• 9:42
  this,
• 9:42
  right?
• 9:42
  And
• 9:43
  they
• 9:43
  started
• 9:44
  to
• 9:44
  give
• 9:44
  their
• 9:44
  own
• 9:44
  time
• 9:45
  talking
• 9:45
  about
• 9:45
  this
• 9:46
  problem.
• 9:46
  So
• 9:46
  I
• 9:46
  didn't
• 9:46
  have
• 9:46
  any
• 9:47
  effort
• 9:47
  getting
• 9:47
  them
• 9:47
  on
• 9:48
  call
• 9:48
  or,
• 9:48
  like,
• 9:48
  getting
• 9:48
  any
• 9:49
  favors
• 9:49
  from
• 9:49
  them
• 9:50
  or
• 9:50
  anything
• 9:50
  like
• 9:50
  that.
• 9:50
  I
• 9:51
  knew
• 9:51
  that
• 9:51
  they
• 9:51
  were
• 9:52
  really
• 9:52
  excited
• 9:52
  about
• 9:53
  it,
• 9:53
  so
• 9:53
  they
• 9:53
  will
• 9:53
  actually
• 9:54
  give
• 9:54
  me
• 9:54
  advice.
• 9:54
  And
• 9:55
  one
• 9:55
  thing
• 9:55
  I
• 9:55
  definitely
• 9:56
  realized
• 9:56
  at
• 9:56
  that
• 9:56
  time
• 9:57
  are,
• 9:57
  like,
• 9:57
  people
• 9:57
  are
• 9:57
  way
• 9:58
  more
• 9:58
  generous
• 9:59
  with
• 9:59
  their
• 9:59
  time
• 10:00
  and
• 10:00
  advice
• 10:01
  than
• 10:01
  I
• 10:01
  originally
• 10:01
  thought.
• 10:02
  So
• 10:02
  asking
• 10:03
  as
• 10:03
  much
• 10:03
  as
• 10:03
  possible
• 10:04
  was
• 10:04
  definitely.
• 10:05
  I
• 10:05
  got
• 10:06
  used
• 10:06
  to
• 10:06
  in
• 10:06
  the
• 10:06
  beginning.
• 10:07
  Then
• 10:08
  sort
• 10:08
  of
• 10:08
  that
• 10:08
  translated
• 10:09
  into,
• 10:09
  you
• 10:10
  know,
• 10:10
  actually
• 10:10
  that
• 10:11
  helped
• 10:11
  a
• 10:11
  lot
• 10:11
  for
• 10:12
  the
• 10:12
  business
• 10:13
  because
• 10:13
  that
• 10:14
  relationship
• 10:14
  that
• 10:14
  I
• 10:14
  built
• 10:15
  in
• 10:15
  the
• 10:15
  beginning,
• 10:15
  in
• 10:16
  the
• 10:16
  very
• 10:16
  early
• 10:16
  stages,
• 10:17
  by
• 10:17
  listening
• 10:17
  to
• 10:18
  them,
• 10:18
  giving
• 10:19
  my
• 10:19
  vision
• 10:19
  to
• 10:19
  them
• 10:19
  as
• 10:20
  well,
• 10:20
  and
• 10:20
  then
• 10:21
  creating
• 10:21
  this
• 10:21
  sort
• 10:21
  of
• 10:22
  core
• 10:22
  of
• 10:23
  what
• 10:23
  it
• 10:23
  could
• 10:23
  be,
• 10:24
  ultimately
• 10:24
  they
• 10:25
  became
• 10:25
  one
• 10:25
  of
• 10:25
  the
• 10:26
  first
• 10:26
  customers
• 10:26
  and
• 10:27
  one
• 10:27
  of
• 10:27
  the
• 10:27
  first
• 10:27
  paid
• 10:28
  customers
• 10:28
  of
• 10:28
  the
• 10:28
  product
• 10:28
  as
• 10:29
  well.
• 10:29
  So
• 10:29
  that
• 10:29
  journey,
• 10:30
  involving
• 10:30
  them
• 10:31
  in
• 10:31
  the
• 10:31
  early
• 10:31
  stages,
• 10:32
  hearing
• 10:32
  their
• 10:33
  thoughts,
• 10:33
  understanding
• 10:34
  it
• 10:34
  deeply,
• 10:34
  and
• 10:35
  trying
• 10:35
  to
• 10:35
  definitely
• 10:36
  change
• 10:36
  that,
• 10:36
  then
• 10:37
  the
• 10:37
  technology
• 10:37
  and
• 10:37
  the
• 10:38
  solution
• 10:38
  and
• 10:38
  everything
• 10:38
  comes.
• 10:39
  Would
• 10:39
  it
• 10:39
  be
• 10:40
  fair
• 10:40
  to
• 10:40
  say
• 10:41
  what
• 10:41
  you're
• 10:41
  saying
• 10:41
  is,
• 10:42
  for
• 10:42
  founders
• 10:43
  out
• 10:43
  there
• 10:43
  listening,
• 10:44
  that
• 10:44
  they
• 10:45
  should
• 10:45
  not
• 10:46
  be
• 10:46
  afraid
• 10:46
  to
• 10:46
  ask
• 10:47
  as
• 10:47
  many
• 10:47
  questions
• 10:48
  to
• 10:48
  as
• 10:48
  many
• 10:48
  people
• 10:49
  as
• 10:49
  possible?
• 10:50
  And
• 10:50
  like
• 10:50
  you
• 10:51
  said,
• 10:51
  don't
• 10:52
  try
• 10:52
  and
• 10:53
  take
• 10:54
  them
• 10:54
  down
• 10:54
  a
• 10:54
  specific
• 10:55
  route
• 10:55
  with
• 10:55
  your
• 10:55
  questions.
• 10:56
  Let
• 10:56
  them
• 10:56
  be
• 10:57
  open,
• 10:57
  like,
• 10:58
  really
• 10:58
  open.
• 10:58
  Which
• 10:58
  is
• 10:59
  hard
• 10:59
  because
• 11:00
  you're
• 11:00
  excited
• 11:00
  about
• 11:01
  something,
• 11:01
  right?
• 11:02
  Yeah,
• 11:03
  it's
• 11:03
  really
• 11:03
  hard.
• 11:03
  I'm
• 11:04
  not
• 11:04
  sure
• 11:04
  whether
• 11:04
  I
• 11:04
  was,
• 11:04
  like,
• 11:04
  very
• 11:05
  good
• 11:05
  at
• 11:05
  it.
• 11:05
  I
• 11:05
  would
• 11:06
  be
• 11:06
  honest
• 11:06
  with
• 11:06
  you.
• 11:06
  I
• 11:06
  tried
• 11:06
  it,
• 11:07
  but
• 11:07
  I
• 11:07
  definitely
• 11:07
  tried
• 11:08
  to
• 11:08
  explore
• 11:08
  things
• 11:09
  in
• 11:09
  a
• 11:09
  very
• 11:09
  wide
• 11:10
  way
• 11:10
  in
• 11:11
  the
• 11:11
  very
• 11:11
  beginning.
• 11:12
  So
• 11:12
  I
• 11:12
  had,
• 11:12
  like,
• 11:12
  massive
• 11:13
  sort
• 11:13
  of
• 11:13
  notes
• 11:14
  all
• 11:14
  over
• 11:14
  the
• 11:14
  place.
• 11:15
  This
• 11:15
  room
• 11:15
  was
• 11:15
  full
• 11:15
  of
• 11:15
  notes
• 11:16
  at
• 11:16
  that
• 11:16
  time.
• 11:16
  It
• 11:16
  was
• 11:17
  very
• 11:17
  unstructured
• 11:18
  in
• 11:18
  the
• 11:18
  beginning.
• 11:19
  But
• 11:19
  then
• 11:19
  over
• 11:19
  time,
• 11:20
  I
• 11:20
  started
• 11:20
  to
• 11:20
  put
• 11:20
  a
• 11:20
  bit
• 11:20
  more
• 11:21
  structure
• 11:21
  to
• 11:21
  it.
• 11:21
  I
• 11:21
  started
• 11:22
  to
• 11:22
  put,
• 11:22
  okay,
• 11:22
  I
• 11:22
  need
• 11:23
  to
• 11:23
  decide
• 11:23
  at
• 11:23
  least
• 11:23
  some
• 11:24
  path
• 11:24
  and.
• 11:24
  And
• 11:24
  then
• 11:25
  try
• 11:25
  to
• 11:25
  narrow
• 11:25
  it
• 11:25
  down
• 11:26
  into
• 11:26
  that
• 11:26
  eventually,
• 11:27
  look,
• 11:27
  I
• 11:28
  am
• 11:28
  responsible.
• 11:29
  I
• 11:29
  am
• 11:29
  accountable.
• 11:30
  I
• 11:30
  am
• 11:30
  also
• 11:31
  the
• 11:31
  one
• 11:31
  who
• 11:32
  has
• 11:32
  to
• 11:32
  do
• 11:32
  it,
• 11:33
  right?
• 11:34
  So
• 11:34
  ultimately
• 11:35
  it
• 11:35
  is
• 11:35
  your
• 11:36
  decision.
• 11:36
  But
• 11:37
  I
• 11:37
  think
• 11:37
  what
• 11:37
  you're
• 11:37
  trying
• 11:37
  to
• 11:38
  get
• 11:38
  here
• 11:38
  is
• 11:39
  as
• 11:39
  much
• 11:39
  data
• 11:39
  as
• 11:40
  possible,
• 11:40
  right?
• 11:40
  As
• 11:41
  much
• 11:41
  unbiased
• 11:41
  data
• 11:41
  as
• 11:42
  possible.
• 11:42
  You
• 11:42
  figure
• 11:42
  out
• 11:43
  there
• 11:43
  is
• 11:43
  a
• 11:43
  limit
• 11:43
  of
• 11:44
  how
• 11:44
  much
• 11:44
  unstructured
• 11:45
  data
• 11:45
  you
• 11:45
  can
• 11:45
  process.
• 11:46
  But
• 11:46
  then
• 11:47
  once
• 11:47
  you
• 11:47
  have
• 11:47
  some
• 11:48
  idea
• 11:49
  of,
• 11:49
  like,
• 11:50
  there's
• 11:50
  a
• 11:50
  theme
• 11:50
  evolving,
• 11:51
  this
• 11:51
  is
• 11:51
  definitely.
• 11:51
  Which
• 11:52
  is
• 11:52
  where
• 11:52
  a
• 11:52
  lot
• 11:53
  of
• 11:53
  people
• 11:53
  are.
• 11:54
  One
• 11:54
  sort
• 11:54
  of
• 11:54
  indicator
• 11:55
  I
• 11:55
  had
• 11:55
  was
• 11:55
  when
• 11:56
  I
• 11:56
  was
• 11:56
  talking
• 11:56
  to
• 11:56
  somebody
• 11:57
  and
• 11:57
  I
• 11:57
  mentioned
• 11:57
  something
• 11:57
  and
• 11:58
  they
• 11:58
  started
• 11:58
  to
• 11:58
  really
• 11:59
  passionately
• 11:59
  nod
• 12:00
  about
• 12:00
  something,
• 12:01
  then
• 12:01
  you
• 12:01
  know
• 12:01
  that
• 12:02
  there
• 12:02
  is
• 12:02
  something
• 12:02
  there,
• 12:02
  right?
• 12:03
  Or
• 12:03
  when
• 12:04
  something
• 12:05
  where
• 12:05
  you
• 12:05
  go,
• 12:06
  yeah,
• 12:07
  yeah,
• 12:07
  exactly.
• 12:07
  There's
• 12:08
  something
• 12:08
  there.
• 12:09
  There's
• 12:09
  something
• 12:09
  there.
• 12:09
  So
• 12:10
  I
• 12:10
  started
• 12:10
  to
• 12:10
  do
• 12:10
  that
• 12:10
  as
• 12:10
  well.
• 12:11
  I
• 12:11
  started
• 12:11
  to.
• 12:11
  Before
• 12:11
  going
• 12:12
  to
• 12:12
  these
• 12:12
  meetings
• 12:13
  I
• 12:13
  had
• 12:13
  this
• 12:13
  list
• 12:13
  of
• 12:14
  things
• 12:14
  where
• 12:14
  I
• 12:14
  had
• 12:14
  like
• 12:14
  lots
• 12:15
  of
• 12:15
  yeses
• 12:15
  or
• 12:16
  lots
• 12:16
  of
• 12:16
  nots.
• 12:16
  I
• 12:16
  didn't
• 12:17
  know
• 12:17
  what
• 12:17
  they
• 12:17
  were.
• 12:17
  And
• 12:18
  then
• 12:18
  I
• 12:18
  started
• 12:18
  to
• 12:18
  randomly
• 12:19
  use
• 12:19
  them
• 12:19
  as
• 12:19
  well
• 12:19
  in
• 12:20
  the
• 12:20
  conversation.
• 12:21
  And
• 12:21
  sometimes
• 12:22
  nobody
• 12:22
  cared
• 12:23
  about
• 12:23
  those
• 12:23
  things.
• 12:23
  Probably
• 12:24
  one
• 12:24
  person
• 12:24
  did.
• 12:24
  But
• 12:25
  over
• 12:25
  time,
• 12:25
  definitely
• 12:26
  some
• 12:26
  of
• 12:26
  the
• 12:26
  things.
• 12:27
  And
• 12:27
  by
• 12:27
  the
• 12:28
  way,
• 12:28
  all
• 12:28
  of
• 12:28
  these
• 12:28
  things
• 12:28
  that
• 12:28
  I'm
• 12:29
  talking
• 12:29
  about
• 12:30
  I
• 12:30
  suppose
• 12:31
  are
• 12:31
  very
• 12:32
  different
• 12:32
  from
• 12:32
  my
• 12:32
  original
• 12:33
  thinking.
• 12:34
  Right.
• 12:34
  What
• 12:35
  I
• 12:35
  left
• 12:35
  my
• 12:35
  job
• 12:36
  for,
• 12:36
  thinking
• 12:37
  that
• 12:37
  this
• 12:37
  is
• 12:37
  what
• 12:37
  I'm
• 12:37
  going
• 12:37
  to
• 12:38
  build
• 12:38
  definitely
• 12:39
  is
• 12:39
  not
• 12:39
  what
• 12:39
  I
• 12:40
  ended
• 12:40
  up
• 12:40
  building.
• 12:41
  But
• 12:41
  you
• 12:41
  did
• 12:41
  you.
• 12:42
  Ultimately
• 12:42
  I.
• 12:43
  And
• 12:43
  I
• 12:43
  think
• 12:43
  this
• 12:44
  is
• 12:44
  a
• 12:44
  really
• 12:44
  important
• 12:44
  thing
• 12:45
  for
• 12:45
  founders
• 12:45
  is
• 12:46
  don't
• 12:46
  get
• 12:46
  too
• 12:47
  married
• 12:47
  to
• 12:47
  the
• 12:47
  idea.
• 12:48
  The
• 12:48
  idea
• 12:49
  isn't
• 12:49
  the
• 12:49
  goal.
• 12:50
  Building
• 12:50
  something
• 12:51
  that's
• 12:51
  useful
• 12:52
  is
• 12:52
  the
• 12:53
  goal.
• 12:53
  It's
• 12:53
  easy
• 12:54
  to
• 12:54
  get
• 12:54
  super
• 12:54
  passionate
• 12:55
  about
• 12:55
  something.
• 12:55
  But
• 12:56
  when
• 12:56
  you
• 12:56
  start,
• 12:56
  I
• 12:57
  like
• 12:57
  how
• 12:57
  you
• 12:57
  talked
• 12:57
  about
• 12:58
  kind
• 12:58
  of
• 12:58
  reading
• 12:58
  that
• 12:59
  body
• 12:59
  language
• 12:59
  stuff
• 13:00
  where
• 13:00
  people
• 13:01
  start
• 13:01
  nodding,
• 13:01
  getting
• 13:02
  excited
• 13:02
  and
• 13:02
  willing
• 13:03
  to
• 13:03
  give
• 13:03
  their
• 13:03
  time.
• 13:04
  That
• 13:04
  is
• 13:04
  a
• 13:04
  great
• 13:04
  sign
• 13:05
  that
• 13:05
  there's
• 13:06
  something
• 13:06
  there
• 13:06
  in
• 13:07
  terms
• 13:07
  of
• 13:07
  the
• 13:07
  investment
• 13:08
  side
• 13:08
  of
• 13:08
  things.
• 13:08
  Right?
• 13:09
  What
• 13:09
  do
• 13:09
  you
• 13:10
  think
• 13:10
  the
• 13:10
  biggest,
• 13:11
  I'm
• 13:12
  not
• 13:12
  going
• 13:12
  to
• 13:12
  say
• 13:12
  lie
• 13:13
  but
• 13:13
  myth
• 13:14
  there
• 13:14
  is
• 13:14
  that
• 13:15
  sort
• 13:15
  of
• 13:15
  investors
• 13:16
  or
• 13:16
  incubators
• 13:17
  talk
• 13:17
  about
• 13:18
  in
• 13:18
  terms
• 13:18
  of
• 13:19
  early
• 13:20
  stage
• 13:20
  founders
• 13:21
  and
• 13:21
  raising
• 13:21
  capital
• 13:22
  around
• 13:22
  their
• 13:22
  idea.
• 13:23
  So
• 13:23
  just
• 13:24
  like
• 13:24
  every
• 13:25
  founder
• 13:26
  at
• 13:26
  that
• 13:26
  stage,
• 13:27
  I
• 13:27
  watched
• 13:28
  probably
• 13:28
  every
• 13:28
  video
• 13:29
  that
• 13:29
  that
• 13:29
  is
• 13:29
  out
• 13:29
  there
• 13:30
  for
• 13:30
  YC
• 13:30
  advice
• 13:31
  for
• 13:32
  most
• 13:32
  of
• 13:32
  the
• 13:32
  incubators.
• 13:33
  I
• 13:33
  have
• 13:33
  a
• 13:33
  huge
• 13:33
  amount
• 13:33
  of
• 13:33
  respect
• 13:34
  and
• 13:34
  don't
• 13:34
  get
• 13:34
  me
• 13:35
  wrong,
• 13:35
  they
• 13:35
  are
• 13:35
  all
• 13:35
  really
• 13:36
  good
• 13:36
  advisors.
• 13:38
  But
• 13:38
  I
• 13:38
  think
• 13:39
  just
• 13:39
  like
• 13:39
  everybody,
• 13:40
  everything
• 13:40
  else
• 13:41
  in
• 13:41
  the
• 13:41
  world,
• 13:41
  right?
• 13:41
  Everything
• 13:42
  has
• 13:42
  a
• 13:42
  context.
• 13:43
  And
• 13:43
  I
• 13:43
  think
• 13:43
  those
• 13:44
  videos
• 13:44
  which
• 13:44
  are
• 13:44
  designed
• 13:45
  and
• 13:45
  developed
• 13:46
  in
• 13:46
  a
• 13:46
  room
• 13:46
  somewhere
• 13:47
  wouldn't
• 13:47
  have
• 13:48
  your
• 13:48
  context
• 13:48
  or
• 13:49
  your
• 13:49
  situation
• 13:49
  in
• 13:50
  the
• 13:50
  mind.
• 13:50
  For
• 13:50
  example,
• 13:51
  this
• 13:51
  advice
• 13:51
  on
• 13:51
  the
• 13:51
  pivoting,
• 13:52
  right?
• 13:52
  That's
• 13:53
  something
• 13:53
  which
• 13:53
  a
• 13:53
  lot
• 13:53
  of
• 13:54
  people
• 13:54
  say
• 13:54
  that
• 13:55
  do
• 13:55
  not
• 13:55
  spend
• 13:56
  too
• 13:56
  much
• 13:56
  time
• 13:57
  on
• 13:57
  the
• 13:57
  idea.
• 13:58
  If
• 13:58
  you're
• 13:58
  not
• 13:58
  seeing
• 13:59
  traction,
• 13:59
  get
• 14:00
  something
• 14:00
  out
• 14:00
  there
• 14:00
  quickly
• 14:01
  and
• 14:01
  see
• 14:02
  if
• 14:02
  it's
• 14:02
  working
• 14:02
  there
• 14:03
  or
• 14:03
  not.
• 14:03
  All
• 14:04
  of
• 14:04
  these
• 14:04
  advices
• 14:04
  are
• 14:04
  really
• 14:05
  good.
• 14:05
  But
• 14:05
  I
• 14:06
  think
• 14:06
  first
• 14:06
  of
• 14:06
  all,
• 14:06
  if
• 14:06
  you
• 14:07
  are
• 14:07
  working
• 14:07
  in
• 14:07
  a
• 14:07
  B2B
• 14:08
  environment,
• 14:09
  it's
• 14:09
  a
• 14:09
  very
• 14:09
  different
• 14:09
  word
• 14:10
  than
• 14:10
  say
• 14:10
  B2C,
• 14:11
  right?
• 14:12
  Enterprise
• 14:12
  is
• 14:12
  hugely
• 14:13
  different.
• 14:13
  Yeah,
• 14:14
  exactly.
• 14:14
  Like
• 14:14
  one
• 14:14
  client
• 14:15
  can
• 14:15
  make
• 14:15
  all
• 14:15
  the
• 14:15
  difference,
• 14:16
  right?
• 14:16
  Like
• 14:17
  exactly.
• 14:17
  I
• 14:18
  do
• 14:18
  consider
• 14:18
  myself
• 14:19
  like
• 14:19
  bit
• 14:19
  more
• 14:19
  old
• 14:19
  fashioned,
• 14:20
  right?
• 14:20
  I'm
• 14:20
  not
• 14:20
  probably
• 14:21
  like
• 14:21
  the
• 14:21
  most
• 14:21
  agile
• 14:22
  and
• 14:22
  whatever
• 14:23
  the
• 14:23
  leanest
• 14:23
  startup
• 14:24
  founder.
• 14:24
  The
• 14:24
  way
• 14:24
  I
• 14:25
  look
• 14:25
  at
• 14:25
  things
• 14:25
  is
• 14:26
  if
• 14:26
  I
• 14:26
  am
• 14:26
  using
• 14:26
  a
• 14:27
  product
• 14:27
  and
• 14:27
  that
• 14:27
  product
• 14:28
  is
• 14:28
  giving
• 14:28
  me
• 14:28
  value,
• 14:29
  I'm
• 14:29
  willing
• 14:29
  to
• 14:30
  pay
• 14:30
  for
• 14:30
  it,
• 14:30
  then
• 14:30
  that's
• 14:31
  a
• 14:31
  good
• 14:31
  product.
• 14:32
  If
• 14:32
  there's
• 14:32
  a
• 14:32
  product
• 14:33
  which
• 14:33
  is
• 14:33
  not
• 14:33
  giving
• 14:33
  me
• 14:34
  value,
• 14:34
  I'm
• 14:34
  not
• 14:34
  going
• 14:34
  to
• 14:34
  pay
• 14:34
  for
• 14:34
  it,
• 14:35
  then
• 14:35
  it's,
• 14:35
  it
• 14:35
  could
• 14:36
  be
• 14:36
  a
• 14:36
  really
• 14:36
  good
• 14:36
  product,
• 14:36
  but
• 14:37
  I
• 14:37
  don't
• 14:37
  really
• 14:37
  care
• 14:37
  about.
• 14:37
  Right.
• 14:38
  And
• 14:38
  the
• 14:38
  same
• 14:39
  principle
• 14:39
  applies
• 14:40
  for
• 14:40
  that
• 14:40
  for
• 14:41
  everything
• 14:41
  else.
• 14:42
  Now
• 14:42
  I
• 14:42
  think
• 14:43
  it's
• 14:43
  as
• 14:43
  simple
• 14:43
  as
• 14:44
  that.
• 14:44
  Now,
• 14:44
  whether
• 14:44
  you
• 14:45
  call
• 14:45
  it
• 14:45
  mvp,
• 14:45
  whether
• 14:46
  you
• 14:46
  call
• 14:46
  it
• 14:46
  like
• 14:47
  lean
• 14:47
  or
• 14:47
  whatever,
• 14:48
  ultimately
• 14:49
  the
• 14:49
  person
• 14:49
  you
• 14:50
  are
• 14:50
  building
• 14:50
  the
• 14:50
  product
• 14:50
  for
• 14:51
  has
• 14:51
  to
• 14:52
  use
• 14:52
  the
• 14:52
  product
• 14:52
  and
• 14:52
  not
• 14:53
  get
• 14:53
  pissed
• 14:53
  off
• 14:54
  or
• 14:54
  not
• 14:54
  feel,
• 14:55
  well,
• 14:55
  this
• 14:55
  is
• 14:55
  an
• 14:55
  unfinished
• 14:56
  product
• 14:56
  or
• 14:56
  this
• 14:57
  is
• 14:57
  not
• 14:57
  really
• 14:57
  a
• 14:57
  good
• 14:57
  product.
• 14:58
  This
• 14:58
  is
• 14:58
  not
• 14:58
  solving
• 14:58
  my
• 14:59
  real
• 14:59
  problem.
• 14:59
  Honestly,
• 15:00
  like
• 15:00
  one
• 15:00
  thing
• 15:00
  which
• 15:00
  nobody
• 15:01
  says,
• 15:02
  what
• 15:02
  I
• 15:02
  found
• 15:03
  from
• 15:03
  my
• 15:03
  own
• 15:03
  experiences
• 15:04
  as
• 15:04
  a
• 15:04
  B2B,
• 15:05
  particularly
• 15:05
  as
• 15:05
  enterprise
• 15:06
  customers,
• 15:06
  B2B
• 15:07
  founders,
• 15:08
  is
• 15:08
  that
• 15:09
  you
• 15:10
  really
• 15:10
  have
• 15:11
  to
• 15:12
  get
• 15:12
  the
• 15:12
  money
• 15:12
  out
• 15:13
  of
• 15:13
  their
• 15:13
  pocket.
• 15:14
  Right.
• 15:15
  For
• 15:15
  that
• 15:15
  you
• 15:16
  need
• 15:16
  to
• 15:16
  not
• 15:16
  only
• 15:16
  convince
• 15:17
  one
• 15:17
  person,
• 15:17
  you
• 15:17
  have
• 15:17
  to
• 15:17
  convince
• 15:18
  an
• 15:18
  army
• 15:18
  of
• 15:19
  people
• 15:19
  in
• 15:19
  that
• 15:19
  company.
• 15:20
  They
• 15:20
  will
• 15:21
  all
• 15:21
  have
• 15:21
  their
• 15:21
  own
• 15:21
  shareholders.
• 15:22
  Right?
• 15:22
  It's
• 15:22
  all
• 15:23
  about
• 15:23
  people
• 15:23
  being
• 15:24
  invested
• 15:24
  in
• 15:24
  something.
• 15:25
  Exactly.
• 15:27
  And
• 15:27
  then
• 15:27
  all
• 15:27
  of
• 15:28
  them
• 15:28
  have
• 15:28
  slightly
• 15:29
  different
• 15:30
  needs.
• 15:30
  And
• 15:30
  if
• 15:30
  you're
• 15:31
  talking
• 15:31
  to
• 15:31
  the
• 15:31
  finance
• 15:31
  person,
• 15:32
  if
• 15:32
  you're
• 15:32
  talking
• 15:32
  to
• 15:32
  a
• 15:32
  HR
• 15:33
  guy,
• 15:33
  if
• 15:33
  you're
• 15:33
  talking
• 15:33
  to
• 15:33
  the
• 15:34
  CEO,
• 15:35
  they'll
• 15:35
  have
• 15:35
  their
• 15:35
  own
• 15:35
  sort
• 15:36
  of
• 15:36
  opinions
• 15:36
  and
• 15:37
  expectations
• 15:37
  and
• 15:38
  things
• 15:38
  and
• 15:38
  it's
• 15:38
  not
• 15:38
  going
• 15:38
  to
• 15:38
  be
• 15:39
  easy.
• 15:39
  They
• 15:39
  don't
• 15:39
  care
• 15:40
  about
• 15:40
  your
• 15:41
  vision,
• 15:41
  they
• 15:41
  don't
• 15:41
  care
• 15:41
  about
• 15:42
  your
• 15:42
  sort
• 15:42
  of
• 15:42
  MVPs.
• 15:43
  They
• 15:43
  probably
• 15:44
  are
• 15:45
  more
• 15:45
  comfortable
• 15:46
  paying
• 15:47
  for
• 15:47
  a
• 15:47
  massive
• 15:47
  company
• 15:48
  like
• 15:48
  big
• 15:49
  company,
• 15:49
  so
• 15:50
  they
• 15:50
  don't
• 15:50
  have
• 15:50
  to
• 15:50
  use
• 15:50
  their
• 15:50
  brains
• 15:51
  than
• 15:52
  taking
• 15:52
  a
• 15:52
  risk
• 15:52
  with
• 15:52
  a
• 15:53
  startup.
• 15:53
  Right?
• 15:54
  So
• 15:54
  honestly,
• 15:55
  whatever
• 15:56
  advice
• 15:56
  was
• 15:57
  out
• 15:57
  there,
• 15:57
  I
• 15:57
  just
• 15:58
  couldn't
• 15:58
  apply
• 15:58
  it.
• 15:59
  I
• 15:59
  just
• 15:59
  couldn't
• 15:59
  apply
• 15:59
  it.
• 16:00
  And
• 16:00
  I
• 16:00
  may
• 16:00
  be
• 16:00
  wrong.
• 16:01
  I'm
• 16:01
  still
• 16:01
  learning
• 16:01
  and
• 16:02
  I'm
• 16:02
  still
• 16:02
  going
• 16:02
  for
• 16:02
  it,
• 16:03
  but
• 16:03
  I
• 16:04
  managed
• 16:04
  to
• 16:04
  get
• 16:04
  like
• 16:05
  a
• 16:05
  really
• 16:05
  big
• 16:05
  customer
• 16:06
  by
• 16:07
  persistently
• 16:08
  listening
• 16:08
  to
• 16:09
  every
• 16:09
  single
• 16:09
  thing
• 16:09
  they
• 16:09
  were
• 16:10
  saying,
• 16:10
  supporting
• 16:11
  them,
• 16:11
  not
• 16:11
  worrying
• 16:12
  too
• 16:12
  much
• 16:12
  about,
• 16:12
  like
• 16:13
  what
• 16:13
  the
• 16:13
  product
• 16:13
  roadmap
• 16:14
  will
• 16:14
  evolve
• 16:14
  into.
• 16:15
  Very
• 16:15
  focused
• 16:16
  on
• 16:16
  I
• 16:16
  need
• 16:16
  to
• 16:16
  solve
• 16:17
  their
• 16:17
  problem
• 16:17
  and
• 16:18
  help
• 16:18
  them
• 16:18
  in
• 16:19
  a
• 16:19
  better
• 16:19
  way.
• 16:19
  Right.
• 16:20
  In
• 16:20
  my
• 16:20
  sort
• 16:21
  of
• 16:21
  approach,
• 16:22
  obviously
• 16:23
  I
• 16:23
  pivoted
• 16:24
  within
• 16:24
  that
• 16:25
  domain
• 16:25
  quite
• 16:25
  a
• 16:26
  lot.
• 16:26
  But
• 16:26
  sometimes
• 16:27
  I
• 16:27
  was
• 16:27
  focusing
• 16:27
  more
• 16:27
  on
• 16:28
  the
• 16:28
  talent
• 16:28
  side,
• 16:28
  sometimes
• 16:29
  I
• 16:29
  was
• 16:29
  focusing
• 16:30
  more
• 16:30
  on
• 16:30
  the
• 16:30
  performance
• 16:30
  side,
• 16:31
  sometimes
• 16:31
  I
• 16:31
  was
• 16:31
  focusing
• 16:31
  more
• 16:32
  on
• 16:32
  the
• 16:32
  engagement
• 16:32
  side.
• 16:33
  So
• 16:33
  there
• 16:33
  was
• 16:33
  a
• 16:33
  lot
• 16:33
  of
• 16:34
  pivoting
• 16:34
  within
• 16:34
  the
• 16:34
  product,
• 16:35
  but
• 16:35
  not
• 16:35
  like
• 16:36
  the
• 16:36
  classical.
• 16:37
  Like
• 16:37
  you
• 16:37
  build
• 16:38
  out
• 16:38
  a
• 16:38
  small
• 16:38
  thing,
• 16:39
  throw
• 16:39
  it
• 16:39
  out
• 16:39
  there.
• 16:39
  If
• 16:40
  it
• 16:40
  doesn't
• 16:40
  work,
• 16:41
  then
• 16:41
  you
• 16:41
  build
• 16:41
  something
• 16:42
  else
• 16:42
  completely
• 16:42
  different
• 16:43
  and
• 16:43
  take
• 16:43
  your
• 16:43
  learning
• 16:43
  from
• 16:44
  it.
• 16:44
  That's
• 16:44
  how
• 16:44
  I
• 16:45
  approached
• 16:45
  it.
• 16:46
  I
• 16:46
  don't
• 16:46
  know
• 16:46
  if
• 16:46
  this
• 16:46
  answers
• 16:47
  your
• 16:47
  question,
• 16:47
  Michael,
• 16:47
  but
• 16:48
  yeah,
• 16:48
  I
• 16:48
  think
• 16:48
  it
• 16:48
  does.
• 16:49
  I
• 16:49
  think
• 16:49
  it
• 16:49
  does.
• 16:49
  Because
• 16:50
  ultimately
• 16:50
  I
• 16:50
  deal
• 16:51
  with
• 16:51
  a
• 16:51
  lot
• 16:51
  of
• 16:51
  enterprise
• 16:52
  B2B
• 16:53
  founders,
• 16:53
  especially
• 16:54
  from
• 16:54
  a
• 16:54
  marketing
• 16:55
  point
• 16:55
  of
• 16:55
  view.
• 16:55
  Right.
• 16:55
  And
• 16:56
  like,
• 16:56
  it's
• 16:57
  the
• 16:57
  whole
• 16:58
  concept
• 16:58
  of
• 16:58
  building
• 16:59
  for
• 17:00
  your
• 17:00
  dream
• 17:01
  client,
• 17:01
  right.
• 17:02
  Maybe
• 17:02
  you
• 17:02
  only
• 17:03
  need
• 17:03
  50
• 17:03
  of
• 17:03
  them
• 17:04
  to
• 17:04
  make
• 17:04
  it
• 17:04
  a
• 17:04
  real
• 17:05
  business
• 17:05
  or
• 17:05
  20.
• 17:06
  It
• 17:06
  depends
• 17:06
  on
• 17:06
  what
• 17:07
  you
• 17:07
  make.
• 17:07
  Yeah,
• 17:07
  but
• 17:08
  the
• 17:08
  point
• 17:08
  is
• 17:08
  you're
• 17:08
  not
• 17:09
  talking
• 17:09
  about
• 17:09
  creating
• 17:10
  the
• 17:10
  next
• 17:10
  Instagram.
• 17:11
  You
• 17:11
  don't
• 17:12
  need
• 17:12
  a
• 17:12
  billion
• 17:12
  users.
• 17:13
  You're
• 17:14
  building
• 17:14
  something
• 17:14
  that
• 17:15
  helps
• 17:16
  deliver
• 17:16
  real
• 17:16
  value
• 17:17
  within
• 17:17
  a
• 17:17
  business.
• 17:18
  So
• 17:19
  I
• 17:19
  agree
• 17:20
  that
• 17:20
  a
• 17:20
  lot
• 17:20
  of
• 17:20
  the
• 17:20
  advice
• 17:21
  out
• 17:21
  there
• 17:21
  is
• 17:22
  much
• 17:22
  more
• 17:22
  B2C
• 17:23
  focused
• 17:25
  than
• 17:26
  perhaps
• 17:26
  thinking
• 17:27
  about
• 17:27
  the
• 17:27
  enterprise
• 17:28
  B2B
• 17:28
  side
• 17:28
  of
• 17:28
  things.
• 17:29
  And
• 17:29
  to
• 17:30
  that
• 17:30
  point,
• 17:30
  do
• 17:30
  you
• 17:31
  think
• 17:31
  that
• 17:31
  venture
• 17:32
  capital
• 17:32
  is
• 17:33
  a
• 17:34
  growth
• 17:34
  accelerator?
• 17:35
  Or
• 17:36
  have
• 17:36
  you
• 17:36
  ever
• 17:37
  found
• 17:37
  that
• 17:37
  a
• 17:37
  trap,
• 17:37
  the
• 17:38
  idea
• 17:38
  of
• 17:38
  trying
• 17:38
  to
• 17:39
  build
• 17:39
  for
• 17:39
  investment?
• 17:41
  Or
• 17:41
  do
• 17:42
  you
• 17:42
  feel
• 17:42
  quite
• 17:42
  unshackled
• 17:43
  by
• 17:43
  that?
• 17:44
  As
• 17:44
  in,
• 17:44
  you
• 17:45
  don't
• 17:45
  need
• 17:45
  to
• 17:45
  do
• 17:45
  that?
• 17:46
  Are
• 17:46
  you
• 17:46
  building
• 17:47
  on
• 17:47
  purpose
• 17:47
  not
• 17:47
  to
• 17:48
  do
• 17:48
  that?
• 17:48
  There's
• 17:48
  a
• 17:49
  part
• 17:49
  of
• 17:49
  it
• 17:49
  which
• 17:49
  is
• 17:49
  slightly
• 17:50
  personal
• 17:50
  decision.
• 17:51
  People
• 17:51
  have
• 17:51
  their
• 17:52
  own
• 17:52
  sort
• 17:52
  of
• 17:52
  expectations
• 17:53
  from
• 17:53
  what
• 17:53
  they
• 17:54
  want
• 17:55
  to
• 17:55
  achieve
• 17:55
  from
• 17:56
  the
• 17:56
  business.
• 17:56
  Right.
• 17:57
  Some
• 17:57
  people
• 17:57
  want
• 17:57
  to
• 17:58
  build
• 17:59
  very
• 17:59
  big
• 17:59
  business
• 17:59
  very
• 18:00
  fast.
• 18:00
  We
• 18:00
  don't
• 18:00
  really
• 18:01
  go
• 18:01
  quickly.
• 18:01
  And
• 18:02
  some
• 18:02
  people
• 18:02
  want
• 18:02
  to
• 18:02
  not
• 18:03
  do
• 18:03
  that.
• 18:03
  Right.
• 18:04
  And
• 18:04
  definitely
• 18:04
  on
• 18:04
  the
• 18:05
  second
• 18:05
  side,
• 18:05
  I
• 18:06
  took
• 18:06
  the
• 18:06
  path
• 18:07
  where
• 18:07
  I
• 18:08
  consciously
• 18:08
  didn't
• 18:09
  raise
• 18:09
  any
• 18:10
  funds
• 18:10
  and
• 18:10
  I
• 18:11
  didn't
• 18:11
  invest
• 18:12
  too
• 18:12
  much
• 18:12
  time
• 18:12
  and
• 18:13
  energy
• 18:14
  into
• 18:14
  trying
• 18:15
  to
• 18:15
  project
• 18:15
  myself
• 18:16
  as
• 18:16
  that
• 18:16
  company.
• 18:17
  Right.
• 18:17
  From
• 18:18
  day
• 18:18
  one,
• 18:18
  my
• 18:18
  focus
• 18:19
  had
• 18:19
  been
• 18:19
  on
• 18:20
  supporting
• 18:21
  the
• 18:21
  customers,
• 18:21
  building
• 18:22
  a
• 18:22
  really
• 18:22
  good
• 18:22
  product
• 18:22
  for
• 18:22
  them,
• 18:23
  and
• 18:23
  then
• 18:23
  if
• 18:23
  they
• 18:24
  are
• 18:24
  happy,
• 18:25
  then
• 18:25
  they
• 18:25
  will
• 18:26
  pay
• 18:26
  me
• 18:26
  enough
• 18:26
  to
• 18:26
  flourish
• 18:27
  this
• 18:27
  business
• 18:27
  in
• 18:27
  the
• 18:28
  long
• 18:28
  run,
• 18:28
  honestly,
• 18:28
  it
• 18:28
  has
• 18:29
  worked.
• 18:30
  Luckily.
• 18:30
  It
• 18:30
  has
• 18:31
  worked.
• 18:31
  It
• 18:32
  has
• 18:32
  worked.
• 18:32
  It's
• 18:33
  the
• 18:33
  opposite
• 18:34
  of
• 18:34
  the
• 18:34
  advice
• 18:34
  that
• 18:35
  your
• 18:36
  story's
• 18:36
  really
• 18:36
  cool
• 18:37
  because
• 18:38
  if
• 18:38
  you
• 18:38
  don't
• 18:38
  mind
• 18:39
  me
• 18:39
  saying
• 18:39
  that,
• 18:39
  to
• 18:39
  me,
• 18:39
  it's
• 18:40
  cool.
• 18:40
  You
• 18:40
  might
• 18:40
  not
• 18:41
  think
• 18:41
  it's
• 18:41
  cool.
• 18:42
  It's
• 18:42
  cool
• 18:42
  because
• 18:43
  I
• 18:43
  have
• 18:43
  conversations
• 18:44
  like
• 18:44
  this
• 18:45
  so
• 18:45
  often
• 18:45
  and
• 18:45
  not
• 18:46
  these
• 18:46
  conversations
• 18:47
  generally
• 18:47
  aren't
• 18:47
  public.
• 18:47
  Right.
• 18:48
  But
• 18:48
  if
• 18:49
  you
• 18:49
  land
• 18:49
  that
• 18:49
  one
• 18:50
  big
• 18:50
  client
• 18:51
  that
• 18:51
  can
• 18:51
  help
• 18:52
  you
• 18:52
  build
• 18:52
  something
• 18:53
  that
• 18:53
  you
• 18:53
  really
• 18:53
  want
• 18:54
  to
• 18:54
  build
• 18:54
  and
• 18:54
  a
• 18:54
  problem
• 18:55
  that
• 18:55
  you
• 18:55
  really
• 18:55
  want
• 18:55
  to
• 18:55
  solve,
• 18:57
  then
• 18:57
  you
• 18:57
  don't
• 18:57
  need
• 18:57
  to
• 18:58
  worry
• 18:58
  necessarily
• 18:59
  about
• 18:59
  building
• 19:00
  something
• 19:00
  to
• 19:00
  scale
• 19:01
  or
• 19:01
  becoming
• 19:01
  the
• 19:02
  next
• 19:02
  unicorn
• 19:02
  or
• 19:03
  whatever,
• 19:03
  you
• 19:04
  can
• 19:04
  build
• 19:04
  gradually.
• 19:06
  And
• 19:06
  of
• 19:06
  course,
• 19:06
  if
• 19:07
  you're
• 19:07
  really
• 19:07
  great
• 19:07
  at
• 19:08
  the
• 19:08
  customer
• 19:08
  service
• 19:08
  side
• 19:09
  and
• 19:09
  support
• 19:09
  and
• 19:10
  you're
• 19:10
  just
• 19:10
  so
• 19:11
  good,
• 19:11
  A,
• 19:11
  they'll
• 19:12
  never
• 19:12
  leave
• 19:12
  and
• 19:13
  B,
• 19:13
  they'll
• 19:14
  tell
• 19:14
  other
• 19:14
  people,
• 19:15
  I
• 19:15
  Assume
• 19:15
  that's
• 19:15
  your
• 19:16
  thinking.
• 19:17
  Yeah,
• 19:18
  definitely.
• 19:18
  No,
• 19:18
  thank
• 19:18
  you.
• 19:19
  Definitely
• 19:19
  that's
• 19:20
  been
• 19:20
  my
• 19:20
  thinking.
• 19:21
  And
• 19:21
  by
• 19:21
  the
• 19:21
  way,
• 19:21
  I've
• 19:21
  been
• 19:22
  part
• 19:22
  of
• 19:22
  the
• 19:22
  company
• 19:23
  in
• 19:23
  very
• 19:23
  single
• 19:23
  leisure
• 19:24
  position
• 19:24
  which
• 19:24
  were
• 19:24
  like
• 19:24
  very
• 19:25
  heavily
• 19:25
  funded.
• 19:25
  I've
• 19:26
  seen
• 19:26
  the
• 19:26
  both
• 19:26
  the
• 19:27
  pros
• 19:27
  and
• 19:27
  the
• 19:27
  cons
• 19:27
  of
• 19:28
  those
• 19:28
  things.
• 19:29
  Right.
• 19:29
  Again,
• 19:29
  like
• 19:30
  this
• 19:30
  is
• 19:30
  a
• 19:30
  personal
• 19:30
  decision,
• 19:30
  but
• 19:31
  I
• 19:31
  feel
• 19:32
  I
• 19:32
  would
• 19:32
  rather
• 19:32
  build
• 19:33
  a
• 19:33
  really
• 19:33
  solid
• 19:34
  product
• 19:34
  because
• 19:35
  once
• 19:35
  you
• 19:35
  take
• 19:35
  huge
• 19:36
  amount
• 19:36
  of
• 19:36
  investment
• 19:37
  then
• 19:37
  the
• 19:38
  focus
• 19:38
  becomes
• 19:39
  growth.
• 19:39
  It
• 19:39
  is
• 19:40
  not
• 19:40
  a
• 19:40
  founder
• 19:40
  led
• 19:40
  business
• 19:41
  anymore.
• 19:41
  It
• 19:41
  is
• 19:41
  not
• 19:42
  a
• 19:42
  business
• 19:42
  which
• 19:42
  is
• 19:43
  able
• 19:43
  to
• 19:43
  focus
• 19:44
  on
• 19:44
  the
• 19:44
  product
• 19:44
  quality
• 19:44
  as
• 19:45
  much.
• 19:45
  It
• 19:45
  will
• 19:45
  be
• 19:46
  more
• 19:46
  about
• 19:46
  grow,
• 19:46
  grow.
• 19:46
  Personally
• 19:47
  speaking,
• 19:47
  that
• 19:48
  is
• 19:48
  something
• 19:48
  I
• 19:48
  can
• 19:48
  say
• 19:48
  with
• 19:48
  a
• 19:49
  lot
• 19:49
  of
• 19:49
  confidence
• 19:49
  is
• 19:50
  that
• 19:50
  even
• 19:51
  if
• 19:51
  you
• 19:51
  want
• 19:51
  to
• 19:51
  raise,
• 19:52
  don't
• 19:52
  raise
• 19:52
  too
• 19:53
  early.
• 19:53
  Because
• 19:53
  I
• 19:53
  feel
• 19:54
  raising
• 19:55
  too
• 19:55
  early
• 19:55
  might
• 19:56
  actually
• 19:56
  hurt
• 19:57
  you
• 19:57
  in
• 19:57
  the
• 19:57
  long
• 19:57
  run
• 19:58
  because
• 19:58
  you
• 19:58
  might
• 19:59
  not
• 19:59
  have
• 19:59
  a
• 19:59
  business
• 20:00
  that
• 20:00
  you're
• 20:00
  growing
• 20:01
  or
• 20:01
  you
• 20:01
  might
• 20:02
  not
• 20:02
  have
• 20:02
  a
• 20:02
  product
• 20:03
  that
• 20:03
  you're
• 20:03
  proud
• 20:03
  of,
• 20:03
  or
• 20:04
  you
• 20:04
  might
• 20:04
  not
• 20:04
  have
• 20:05
  an
• 20:05
  idea
• 20:06
  that
• 20:06
  actually
• 20:06
  deserves
• 20:07
  to
• 20:07
  be
• 20:07
  raised.
• 20:08
  Getting
• 20:09
  money
• 20:09
  is
• 20:09
  a,
• 20:09
  is
• 20:10
  a
• 20:10
  craft,
• 20:10
  right.
• 20:11
  And
• 20:11
  you
• 20:11
  can
• 20:11
  be
• 20:11
  really
• 20:12
  good
• 20:12
  at
• 20:12
  raising
• 20:13
  money.
• 20:14
  That
• 20:14
  doesn't
• 20:14
  make
• 20:14
  you
• 20:15
  a
• 20:15
  successful
• 20:16
  businessman
• 20:16
  or
• 20:17
  a
• 20:17
  founder.
• 20:17
  So
• 20:17
  yeah,
• 20:18
  you
• 20:18
  could
• 20:18
  spend
• 20:18
  five
• 20:19
  years
• 20:19
  just
• 20:19
  doing
• 20:20
  that.
• 20:20
  But
• 20:20
  then
• 20:21
  I
• 20:21
  would
• 20:21
  rather
• 20:22
  have
• 20:22
  that
• 20:22
  clarity
• 20:23
  that
• 20:23
  this
• 20:23
  is
• 20:23
  something
• 20:24
  that
• 20:24
  I'm
• 20:24
  doing
• 20:24
  is
• 20:24
  actually
• 20:25
  real,
• 20:25
  solves
• 20:26
  a
• 20:26
  real
• 20:26
  problem,
• 20:27
  people
• 20:27
  like
• 20:27
  it,
• 20:27
  and
• 20:28
  then
• 20:28
  grow
• 20:28
  at
• 20:28
  my
• 20:28
  own
• 20:29
  pace.
• 20:29
  But
• 20:29
  then
• 20:29
  if
• 20:30
  at
• 20:30
  some
• 20:30
  point
• 20:30
  I
• 20:30
  do
• 20:31
  want
• 20:31
  to
• 20:31
  grow
• 20:31
  fast,
• 20:32
  that
• 20:32
  option
• 20:32
  is
• 20:32
  always
• 20:33
  there.
• 20:34
  Right?
• 20:34
  But
• 20:34
  you
• 20:34
  built
• 20:35
  the
• 20:35
  right
• 20:35
  foundations.
• 20:36
  Right?
• 20:36
  And
• 20:36
  I
• 20:36
  think
• 20:37
  that's
• 20:37
  what
• 20:37
  you're
• 20:37
  saying
• 20:38
  rather
• 20:38
  than
• 20:39
  going
• 20:39
  I've
• 20:39
  got
• 20:39
  an
• 20:39
  mvp.
• 20:40
  There
• 20:40
  seems
• 20:41
  to
• 20:41
  be
• 20:41
  loads
• 20:41
  of
• 20:41
  traction,
• 20:42
  my
• 20:43
  churn
• 20:43
  rate
• 20:43
  is
• 20:44
  low,
• 20:44
  which
• 20:44
  would
• 20:45
  be
• 20:45
  fabulous
• 20:45
  if
• 20:45
  those
• 20:46
  things
• 20:46
  were
• 20:46
  all
• 20:47
  true.
• 20:47
  And
• 20:48
  there's
• 20:48
  no
• 20:48
  real
• 20:48
  competition.
• 20:49
  That's
• 20:50
  a
• 20:50
  rare,
• 20:50
  that's
• 20:50
  a
• 20:50
  rare
• 20:51
  commodity
• 20:51
  in
• 20:51
  terms
• 20:52
  of.
• 20:52
  I
• 20:52
  agree
• 20:52
  with
• 20:53
  you.
• 20:53
  In
• 20:53
  terms
• 20:53
  of
• 20:54
  trying
• 20:54
  to
• 20:54
  raise
• 20:54
  too
• 20:55
  early
• 20:55
  or
• 20:55
  trying
• 20:55
  to
• 20:55
  raise
• 20:56
  frequently.
• 20:56
  I
• 20:57
  think
• 20:57
  the
• 20:57
  con
• 20:58
  that
• 20:58
  I
• 20:58
  hear
• 20:58
  most
• 20:59
  often
• 20:59
  to
• 20:59
  raising,
• 21:00
  I
• 21:00
  dunno
• 21:01
  whether
• 21:01
  you
• 21:01
  agree
• 21:01
  with
• 21:01
  this
• 21:01
  is
• 21:02
  the
• 21:02
  fact
• 21:02
  that
• 21:02
  essentially
• 21:03
  you're
• 21:03
  giving
• 21:03
  away
• 21:03
  control
• 21:04
  and
• 21:05
  you
• 21:05
  really
• 21:05
  are.
• 21:05
  It's
• 21:06
  not.
• 21:06
  This
• 21:06
  idea
• 21:07
  of
• 21:07
  driving
• 21:07
  for
• 21:07
  growth
• 21:08
  doesn't
• 21:08
  just
• 21:08
  mean
• 21:09
  that.
• 21:09
  It
• 21:10
  means
• 21:10
  all
• 21:10
  decisions
• 21:11
  mean
• 21:11
  that.
• 21:12
  Absolutely,
• 21:12
  absolutely,
• 21:13
  absolutely.
• 21:14
  Giving
• 21:14
  away
• 21:15
  control
• 21:15
  might
• 21:16
  be
• 21:16
  okay
• 21:16
  at
• 21:16
  some
• 21:16
  stage,
• 21:17
  but
• 21:17
  I
• 21:18
  think
• 21:18
  you
• 21:18
  have
• 21:18
  to
• 21:18
  remember
• 21:19
  that
• 21:19
  giving
• 21:19
  away
• 21:20
  control
• 21:20
  means
• 21:20
  that
• 21:20
  your
• 21:21
  customers
• 21:21
  are
• 21:21
  not
• 21:21
  going
• 21:22
  to
• 21:22
  get
• 21:22
  the
• 21:23
  same
• 21:23
  kind
• 21:23
  of
• 21:23
  support
• 21:23
  they
• 21:24
  were
• 21:24
  getting
• 21:24
  before
• 21:24
  through
• 21:25
  you.
• 21:26
  You
• 21:26
  wouldn't
• 21:26
  be
• 21:26
  able
• 21:26
  to
• 21:27
  run
• 21:27
  the
• 21:27
  business
• 21:27
  the
• 21:27
  same
• 21:28
  speed
• 21:28
  that
• 21:28
  you
• 21:28
  can
• 21:29
  today.
• 21:29
  Right.
• 21:30
  You
• 21:30
  can
• 21:30
  have
• 21:30
  10
• 21:30
  AI
• 21:31
  agents
• 21:31
  running
• 21:31
  the
• 21:32
  engineering
• 21:32
  in
• 21:32
  the
• 21:33
  sales
• 21:33
  of
• 21:33
  the
• 21:33
  Marketing
• 21:33
  and
• 21:34
  you
• 21:34
  still
• 21:34
  are
• 21:35
  sitting
• 21:35
  on
• 21:35
  top
• 21:35
  of
• 21:35
  the
• 21:35
  decision
• 21:36
  making
• 21:36
  power
• 21:37
  versus
• 21:38
  you
• 21:38
  have
• 21:39
  two
• 21:39
  more
• 21:40
  people
• 21:40
  on
• 21:40
  the
• 21:40
  board
• 21:40
  seat,
• 21:41
  have
• 21:41
  very
• 21:41
  different
• 21:41
  ideas
• 21:42
  and
• 21:42
  then
• 21:42
  like
• 21:43
  businesses
• 21:43
  going
• 21:43
  in
• 21:44
  all
• 21:44
  the
• 21:44
  directions
• 21:44
  at
• 21:45
  the
• 21:45
  same
• 21:45
  time.
• 21:45
  I
• 21:45
  definitely
• 21:46
  chose
• 21:46
  the
• 21:46
  first
• 21:46
  one
• 21:47
  versus
• 21:47
  the
• 21:47
  second
• 21:47
  one.
• 21:48
  What
• 21:48
  you
• 21:48
  were
• 21:48
  saying,
• 21:48
  people
• 21:49
  have
• 21:49
  an
• 21:49
  MVP
• 21:50
  and
• 21:50
  then
• 21:50
  going
• 21:50
  out
• 21:51
  there
• 21:51
  for
• 21:52
  the
• 21:52
  raise.
• 21:52
  Honestly
• 21:53
  like
• 21:53
  in
• 21:53
  the
• 21:53
  last
• 21:53
  couple
• 21:53
  of
• 21:54
  years,
• 21:54
  what
• 21:54
  I'm
• 21:54
  seeing
• 21:54
  is
• 21:54
  that
• 21:55
  because
• 21:55
  of
• 21:55
  AI
• 21:56
  people
• 21:56
  are
• 21:56
  not
• 21:56
  even
• 21:57
  building
• 21:57
  an
• 21:57
  mvp.
• 21:58
  Right.
• 21:58
  There's
• 21:58
  just
• 21:59
  a
• 21:59
  drawing
• 21:59
  and
• 22:00
  a
• 22:00
  really
• 22:00
  fancy
• 22:01
  deck
• 22:01
  and
• 22:02
  you
• 22:02
  are,
• 22:02
  you're
• 22:03
  able
• 22:03
  to
• 22:03
  raise.
• 22:03
  That's
• 22:03
  something
• 22:03
  I
• 22:04
  really
• 22:04
  wanted
• 22:04
  to
• 22:05
  push
• 22:05
  away
• 22:06
  from
• 22:06
  myself.
• 22:06
  Like
• 22:06
  I
• 22:07
  just
• 22:07
  didn't
• 22:07
  want
• 22:07
  to
• 22:07
  go
• 22:08
  that
• 22:08
  path
• 22:08
  of
• 22:09
  very
• 22:09
  solid
• 22:10
  idea,
• 22:10
  really
• 22:11
  convinced
• 22:12
  that
• 22:12
  this
• 22:12
  is
• 22:12
  the
• 22:12
  next
• 22:12
  big
• 22:13
  thing,
• 22:13
  big
• 22:14
  research
• 22:14
  behind
• 22:14
  it
• 22:14
  as
• 22:15
  well
• 22:15
  and
• 22:15
  everything
• 22:16
  but
• 22:16
  not
• 22:16
  substantial
• 22:17
  like
• 22:18
  the
• 22:18
  exercise
• 22:18
  of
• 22:18
  going
• 22:19
  through
• 22:19
  the
• 22:19
  customer
• 22:20
  understanding
• 22:21
  problem,
• 22:21
  enough
• 22:22
  interviews
• 22:22
  to
• 22:23
  know
• 22:23
  that
• 22:23
  people
• 22:24
  do
• 22:24
  care
• 22:24
  about
• 22:24
  this
• 22:24
  problem
• 22:25
  or
• 22:25
  not
• 22:25
  like
• 22:26
  all
• 22:26
  of
• 22:26
  that
• 22:26
  has
• 22:26
  to
• 22:26
  happen.
• 22:27
  That
• 22:27
  is
• 22:27
  I
• 22:27
  think
• 22:27
  very
• 22:28
  important.
• 22:28
  I
• 22:28
  really
• 22:28
  like
• 22:29
  the
• 22:29
  way
• 22:29
  that
• 22:29
  you
• 22:29
  think
• 22:29
  about
• 22:30
  it
• 22:30
  as
• 22:30
  well.
• 22:30
  And
• 22:30
  this
• 22:30
  is
• 22:31
  great
• 22:31
  in
• 22:31
  enterprise
• 22:32
  software
• 22:32
  because
• 22:33
  ultimately
• 22:34
  when
• 22:34
  we're
• 22:35
  talking
• 22:35
  about
• 22:36
  building
• 22:36
  something
• 22:37
  that's
• 22:37
  a
• 22:37
  great
• 22:37
  product
• 22:37
  that
• 22:38
  solves
• 22:38
  a
• 22:38
  big
• 22:38
  problem
• 22:39
  that
• 22:39
  people
• 22:40
  love
• 22:41
  ultimately
• 22:42
  is
• 22:42
  about
• 22:43
  building
• 22:43
  real
• 22:43
  relationships.
• 22:44
  It's
• 22:44
  not
• 22:45
  just
• 22:45
  about
• 22:45
  that
• 22:45
  idea
• 22:46
  of
• 22:47
  you
• 22:47
  can't,
• 22:47
  to
• 22:48
  take
• 22:48
  a
• 22:48
  weird
• 22:48
  example,
• 22:49
  love
• 22:49
  a
• 22:50
  weird
• 22:50
  example.
• 22:51
  Say
• 22:51
  you
• 22:51
  were
• 22:51
  sending
• 22:52
  out
• 22:52
  thousands
• 22:52
  of
• 22:52
  emails
• 22:53
  versus
• 22:54
  having
• 22:54
  a
• 22:54
  conversation
• 22:55
  with
• 22:55
  the
• 22:55
  one
• 22:55
  person
• 22:56
  that
• 22:56
  you
• 22:56
  want
• 22:56
  to
• 22:57
  and
• 22:57
  building
• 22:57
  a
• 22:57
  real
• 22:58
  relationship
• 22:58
  with
• 22:58
  them.
• 22:59
  Right.
• 22:59
  Which
• 22:59
  one's
• 23:00
  more
• 23:00
  likely
• 23:01
  to
• 23:01
  be
• 23:01
  long
• 23:01
  term
• 23:02
  sustainable?
• 23:03
  Your
• 23:04
  version
• 23:04
  is
• 23:05
  the
• 23:05
  building
• 23:05
  relationship
• 23:06
  face
• 23:06
  to
• 23:06
  face
• 23:07
  with
• 23:07
  that
• 23:07
  client.
• 23:07
  Right.
• 23:08
  It's
• 23:08
  deep
• 23:08
  relationship,
• 23:10
  deep
• 23:10
  connection,
• 23:11
  deep
• 23:12
  support.
• 23:13
  It's
• 23:13
  real
• 23:13
  connection
• 23:14
  versus
• 23:15
  the
• 23:15
  idea
• 23:16
  of,
• 23:16
  as
• 23:16
  you
• 23:16
  say,
• 23:17
  if
• 23:17
  you
• 23:17
  present
• 23:18
  like
• 23:18
  a
• 23:18
  wireframe
• 23:19
  and
• 23:20
  an
• 23:20
  idea
• 23:21
  and
• 23:21
  then
• 23:21
  you
• 23:21
  say
• 23:21
  we're
• 23:22
  going
• 23:22
  to
• 23:22
  build
• 23:22
  the
• 23:22
  whole
• 23:22
  thing
• 23:22
  with
• 23:22
  AI,
• 23:23
  odds
• 23:23
  are
• 23:23
  it
• 23:24
  probably
• 23:24
  won't
• 23:24
  work
• 23:24
  the
• 23:25
  way
• 23:25
  you
• 23:25
  expect
• 23:26
  and
• 23:26
  all
• 23:26
  these.
• 23:27
  There
• 23:27
  are
• 23:27
  many
• 23:27
  other
• 23:27
  issues.
• 23:28
  Right.
• 23:28
  But
• 23:29
  I
• 23:29
  think
• 23:29
  people
• 23:29
  are
• 23:29
  getting
• 23:30
  too
• 23:30
  excited
• 23:31
  and
• 23:31
  expectations
• 23:32
  aren't
• 23:32
  right.
• 23:33
  Because
• 23:33
  ultimately
• 23:34
  it
• 23:34
  takes
• 23:35
  years
• 23:35
  to
• 23:35
  build
• 23:36
  something
• 23:37
  great.
• 23:37
  Absolutely.
• 23:38
  It
• 23:38
  still
• 23:38
  works.
• 23:38
  Absolutely.
• 23:39
  Because
• 23:39
  humans
• 23:40
  are
• 23:40
  buying
• 23:40
  and
• 23:40
  they
• 23:41
  need
• 23:41
  to
• 23:41
  know
• 23:41
  a
• 23:41
  business,
• 23:42
  trust
• 23:42
  a
• 23:42
  business
• 23:43
  and
• 23:43
  know
• 23:43
  what
• 23:43
  it
• 23:43
  can
• 23:44
  really
• 23:44
  do
• 23:44
  for
• 23:44
  them.
• 23:45
  So
• 23:45
  that
• 23:45
  brings
• 23:45
  me
• 23:45
  to
• 23:46
  a
• 23:46
  really
• 23:46
  interesting
• 23:46
  point.
• 23:47
  Right?
• 23:47
  So
• 23:47
  like
• 23:48
  obviously
• 23:49
  traditional
• 23:49
  HR
• 23:50
  stuff,
• 23:51
  360
• 23:51
  feedback,
• 23:52
  things
• 23:52
  people
• 23:53
  think
• 23:53
  are
• 23:53
  complete
• 23:54
  box
• 23:55
  taking
• 23:55
  exercises.
• 23:56
  Often
• 23:56
  everyone
• 23:57
  says
• 23:57
  the
• 23:57
  answer
• 23:58
  is
• 23:58
  this
• 23:58
  whole
• 23:58
  idea
• 23:58
  of
• 23:59
  continuous
• 23:59
  feedback
• 24:00
  that
• 24:00
  usually
• 24:01
  just
• 24:01
  means
• 24:01
  giving
• 24:02
  already
• 24:02
  busy
• 24:03
  enough
• 24:03
  employees
• 24:04
  or
• 24:04
  managers
• 24:06
  more
• 24:06
  forms
• 24:06
  to
• 24:07
  fill
• 24:07
  out.
• 24:08
  How
• 24:08
  are
• 24:08
  you
• 24:08
  planning
• 24:08
  to
• 24:09
  fix
• 24:09
  that?
• 24:09
  So
• 24:09
  I
• 24:09
  like
• 24:10
  the
• 24:10
  idea,
• 24:10
  but
• 24:10
  how
• 24:11
  does
• 24:11
  clarity
• 24:11
  loop
• 24:12
  Fix
• 24:12
  that.
• 24:12
  Our
• 24:13
  mission
• 24:13
  is
• 24:13
  really
• 24:14
  helping
• 24:15
  teams
• 24:15
  develop
• 24:16
  performance
• 24:17
  continuously.
• 24:18
  And
• 24:18
  we
• 24:18
  really
• 24:19
  take
• 24:19
  each
• 24:19
  word
• 24:19
  in
• 24:20
  that
• 24:20
  mission
• 24:20
  very
• 24:21
  seriously.
• 24:21
  Honestly,
• 24:22
  like
• 24:22
  it's
• 24:22
  much
• 24:22
  harder
• 24:23
  than
• 24:24
  that.
• 24:24
  Everybody
• 24:25
  says
• 24:25
  like
• 24:25
  continuous
• 24:25
  performance.
• 24:26
  But
• 24:27
  if
• 24:27
  you
• 24:27
  go
• 24:27
  deeper
• 24:27
  into
• 24:28
  understanding
• 24:28
  like
• 24:29
  how
• 24:29
  exactly
• 24:29
  you
• 24:30
  make
• 24:30
  it
• 24:30
  continuous
• 24:30
  because
• 24:30
  teams
• 24:31
  are
• 24:31
  busy,
• 24:31
  as
• 24:31
  you
• 24:31
  said,
• 24:31
  right?
• 24:32
  Like
• 24:32
  people,
• 24:33
  especially
• 24:33
  if
• 24:33
  you
• 24:33
  talk
• 24:34
  to
• 24:34
  an
• 24:34
  engineer
• 24:35
  saying
• 24:35
  oh,
• 24:35
  you
• 24:35
  need
• 24:35
  to
• 24:35
  fill
• 24:35
  out
• 24:35
  this
• 24:36
  form,
• 24:36
  you
• 24:36
  need
• 24:36
  to
• 24:36
  fill
• 24:37
  out
• 24:37
  this
• 24:37
  review
• 24:37
  or
• 24:38
  survey
• 24:39
  or
• 24:39
  feedback,
• 24:40
  they're
• 24:40
  like,
• 24:40
  please
• 24:41
  get
• 24:41
  out,
• 24:42
  I'm
• 24:42
  busy,
• 24:43
  I
• 24:43
  don't
• 24:43
  have
• 24:43
  time.
• 24:43
  That
• 24:43
  doesn't
• 24:44
  make
• 24:44
  it
• 24:44
  less
• 24:44
  important
• 24:45
  or
• 24:45
  less
• 24:45
  useful.
• 24:46
  Like
• 24:46
  for
• 24:46
  company,
• 24:46
  this
• 24:47
  is
• 24:47
  important
• 24:47
  for
• 24:47
  that
• 24:47
  individual,
• 24:48
  it
• 24:48
  is
• 24:48
  very
• 24:48
  important.
• 24:49
  So
• 24:49
  our
• 24:49
  trick
• 24:49
  was
• 24:50
  to
• 24:50
  how
• 24:50
  do
• 24:50
  you
• 24:50
  actually
• 24:51
  do
• 24:51
  that
• 24:51
  in
• 24:51
  a
• 24:51
  way?
• 24:51
  And
• 24:52
  you
• 24:52
  have
• 24:52
  to
• 24:52
  understand
• 24:52
  why
• 24:53
  people
• 24:53
  behave
• 24:53
  like
• 24:53
  that.
• 24:55
  And
• 24:55
  there
• 24:55
  were
• 24:55
  a
• 24:55
  few
• 24:56
  thesis
• 24:56
  that
• 24:57
  we
• 24:57
  developed,
• 24:57
  we
• 24:57
  actually
• 24:58
  did
• 24:58
  some
• 24:58
  psychological
• 24:59
  research
• 24:59
  on
• 24:59
  it.
• 25:00
  There's
• 25:00
  a
• 25:00
  research
• 25:00
  paper
• 25:01
  that
• 25:01
  we
• 25:01
  also
• 25:01
  publish
• 25:02
  on
• 25:02
  it.
• 25:02
  But
• 25:02
  ultimately
• 25:03
  it
• 25:04
  comes
• 25:04
  down
• 25:04
  to
• 25:05
  the
• 25:05
  context,
• 25:06
  right?
• 25:06
  Ultimately
• 25:07
  it
• 25:07
  comes
• 25:07
  down
• 25:07
  to
• 25:07
  that.
• 25:08
  We
• 25:09
  historically
• 25:09
  thought
• 25:11
  that
• 25:11
  feedback,
• 25:12
  performance,
• 25:13
  engagement,
• 25:14
  all
• 25:14
  of
• 25:14
  these
• 25:14
  things
• 25:15
  are
• 25:15
  like
• 25:16
  separate
• 25:17
  from
• 25:17
  the
• 25:17
  day
• 25:17
  to
• 25:17
  day
• 25:18
  work.
• 25:18
  And
• 25:19
  you
• 25:19
  look
• 25:19
  at
• 25:19
  them
• 25:19
  as
• 25:20
  like
• 25:20
  these
• 25:20
  are
• 25:20
  HR
• 25:20
  things
• 25:21
  and
• 25:21
  these
• 25:21
  are,
• 25:22
  this
• 25:22
  is
• 25:22
  like
• 25:22
  the
• 25:23
  engineer
• 25:23
  thing
• 25:23
  or
• 25:23
  customer
• 25:24
  support
• 25:24
  thing
• 25:24
  or
• 25:24
  the
• 25:25
  sales
• 25:25
  thing.
• 25:25
  And
• 25:25
  our
• 25:26
  thesis
• 25:26
  was
• 25:26
  like,
• 25:26
  no,
• 25:26
  no,
• 25:27
  they
• 25:27
  are
• 25:27
  same
• 25:27
  thing.
• 25:27
  People
• 25:28
  doing
• 25:28
  their
• 25:28
  job
• 25:28
  is
• 25:29
  where
• 25:29
  they
• 25:29
  perform,
• 25:30
  where
• 25:30
  they
• 25:30
  feel
• 25:31
  angry,
• 25:31
  where
• 25:31
  they
• 25:31
  feel
• 25:32
  happy,
• 25:32
  where
• 25:33
  they
• 25:33
  have
• 25:34
  decided
• 25:34
  whether
• 25:35
  they
• 25:35
  want
• 25:35
  to
• 25:35
  continue
• 25:35
  with
• 25:36
  this
• 25:36
  company
• 25:36
  or
• 25:36
  not,
• 25:36
  right?
• 25:37
  All
• 25:37
  of
• 25:37
  these
• 25:37
  things
• 25:37
  happen
• 25:37
  when
• 25:38
  they're
• 25:38
  working.
• 25:39
  So
• 25:39
  we
• 25:39
  wanted
• 25:39
  to
• 25:39
  get
• 25:39
  in
• 25:40
  there.
• 25:40
  So
• 25:40
  what
• 25:40
  we
• 25:40
  did
• 25:41
  was
• 25:41
  we
• 25:41
  built
• 25:41
  out
• 25:41
  this
• 25:42
  platform
• 25:42
  that
• 25:42
  actually
• 25:42
  connects
• 25:43
  into
• 25:43
  the
• 25:43
  tools
• 25:44
  where
• 25:44
  the
• 25:44
  work
• 25:44
  is
• 25:44
  happening.
• 25:45
  And
• 25:45
  then
• 25:45
  we
• 25:46
  built
• 25:46
  out
• 25:46
  this
• 25:46
  sort
• 25:46
  of
• 25:47
  system
• 25:48
  that
• 25:48
  is
• 25:48
  really
• 25:48
  good
• 25:48
  at
• 25:49
  analyzing
• 25:49
  patterns.
• 25:50
  Okay,
• 25:51
  so
• 25:52
  let's
• 25:52
  say
• 25:52
  a
• 25:52
  team
• 25:53
  of
• 25:53
  engineers,
• 25:53
  I'm
• 25:54
  just
• 25:54
  taking
• 25:54
  engineering
• 25:54
  as
• 25:55
  an
• 25:55
  example.
• 25:56
  But
• 25:56
  same
• 25:56
  thing
• 25:56
  applies
• 25:57
  to,
• 25:57
  it's
• 25:57
  very
• 25:57
  generic
• 25:58
  as
• 25:58
  a
• 25:58
  customer
• 25:58
  support,
• 25:59
  sales
• 25:59
  or
• 25:59
  anything.
• 25:59
  People
• 26:00
  working
• 26:00
  together,
• 26:00
  collaborating
• 26:01
  together,
• 26:01
  collaborating
• 26:02
  on
• 26:02
  something
• 26:03
  together.
• 26:04
  That's
• 26:04
  where
• 26:04
  sort
• 26:05
  of
• 26:05
  you
• 26:05
  can
• 26:05
  detect
• 26:05
  patterns.
• 26:06
  And
• 26:06
  our
• 26:07
  system
• 26:07
  basically
• 26:08
  analyzes
• 26:08
  those
• 26:09
  patterns.
• 26:09
  And
• 26:09
  when
• 26:09
  there's
• 26:10
  a
• 26:10
  theme
• 26:10
  evolving,
• 26:11
  it
• 26:11
  will
• 26:11
  turn
• 26:11
  that
• 26:12
  into
• 26:12
  a
• 26:12
  nudge.
• 26:14
  Say
• 26:14
  if
• 26:15
  you
• 26:15
  and
• 26:15
  I
• 26:15
  are
• 26:15
  working
• 26:15
  together,
• 26:16
  Mike,
• 26:16
  and
• 26:16
  you
• 26:16
  are
• 26:16
  sage
• 26:17
  reviewing
• 26:17
  my
• 26:17
  code
• 26:18
  or
• 26:18
  you
• 26:18
  are
• 26:18
  reviewing
• 26:19
  my
• 26:19
  design
• 26:19
  document
• 26:20
  or
• 26:20
  something
• 26:21
  and
• 26:21
  you've
• 26:21
  been
• 26:22
  consistently
• 26:22
  saying,
• 26:22
  Sachin,
• 26:23
  you're
• 26:23
  doing
• 26:23
  amazing
• 26:23
  on
• 26:24
  this
• 26:24
  part.
• 26:24
  But
• 26:24
  you
• 26:24
  know
• 26:24
  what,
• 26:25
  you
• 26:25
  could
• 26:25
  do
• 26:25
  this
• 26:25
  something
• 26:26
  differently
• 26:26
  and
• 26:26
  you're
• 26:27
  not
• 26:27
  being
• 26:27
  very
• 26:27
  data
• 26:28
  driven
• 26:28
  in
• 26:28
  your
• 26:28
  approach
• 26:28
  to
• 26:29
  solving
• 26:29
  this
• 26:30
  problem.
• 26:30
  And
• 26:31
  if
• 26:31
  there's
• 26:31
  a
• 26:31
  pattern
• 26:31
  evolving,
• 26:32
  then
• 26:33
  Cloudview
• 26:33
  will
• 26:33
  give
• 26:34
  you
• 26:34
  a
• 26:34
  nudge
• 26:34
  saying
• 26:34
  hey
• 26:34
  Mike,
• 26:35
  based
• 26:35
  on
• 26:35
  your
• 26:36
  Recent
• 26:36
  collaboration
• 26:36
  with
• 26:37
  Sachin.
• 26:37
  Looks
• 26:38
  like
• 26:38
  there's,
• 26:38
  there's
• 26:38
  something
• 26:38
  that
• 26:39
  you
• 26:39
  wanted
• 26:39
  to
• 26:39
  tell
• 26:39
  him.
• 26:40
  You
• 26:40
  want
• 26:40
  to
• 26:40
  turn
• 26:40
  that
• 26:40
  into
• 26:40
  a
• 26:41
  feedback
• 26:41
  for
• 26:41
  him
• 26:42
  so
• 26:42
  he
• 26:42
  understands
• 26:43
  that
• 26:43
  better.
• 26:44
  And
• 26:44
  then
• 26:44
  it
• 26:44
  will
• 26:44
  have
• 26:44
  the
• 26:45
  initial
• 26:45
  draft
• 26:45
  of
• 26:45
  the
• 26:45
  feedback,
• 26:46
  all
• 26:46
  the
• 26:47
  dots
• 26:47
  combined,
• 26:48
  like
• 26:48
  where
• 26:48
  it's
• 26:48
  coming
• 26:49
  from.
• 26:49
  And
• 26:50
  you
• 26:50
  don't
• 26:50
  have
• 26:50
  to
• 26:50
  be
• 26:50
  really
• 26:51
  good
• 26:51
  at
• 26:51
  giving
• 26:51
  feedback
• 26:52
  because
• 26:53
  like
• 26:53
  when
• 26:53
  it
• 26:53
  comes
• 26:53
  to
• 26:53
  summarization,
• 26:54
  when
• 26:54
  it
• 26:54
  comes
• 26:55
  to
• 26:55
  writing
• 26:55
  in
• 26:56
  English,
• 26:56
  when
• 26:56
  it
• 26:56
  comes
• 26:57
  to
• 26:57
  what
• 26:57
  is
• 26:57
  the
• 26:57
  right
• 26:58
  template
• 26:58
  to
• 26:58
  fill
• 26:59
  out
• 26:59
  this
• 26:59
  thing
• 26:59
  or
• 26:59
  that
• 26:59
  thing,
• 27:00
  AI
• 27:00
  is
• 27:00
  really
• 27:00
  good
• 27:01
  at
• 27:01
  that.
• 27:01
  You'll
• 27:01
  have
• 27:01
  initial
• 27:02
  draft,
• 27:02
  all
• 27:02
  the
• 27:03
  dots
• 27:03
  filled
• 27:03
  up,
• 27:03
  context
• 27:04
  is
• 27:04
  already
• 27:04
  there
• 27:05
  and
• 27:05
  more
• 27:06
  importantly
• 27:07
  you're
• 27:07
  reminded
• 27:07
  about
• 27:07
  it
• 27:08
  at
• 27:08
  the
• 27:08
  right
• 27:08
  time.
• 27:08
  This
• 27:09
  makes
• 27:09
  it
• 27:09
  easy
• 27:09
  for
• 27:09
  you
• 27:09
  to
• 27:10
  do
• 27:10
  the
• 27:11
  course
• 27:11
  correction
• 27:11
  either
• 27:12
  for
• 27:12
  me
• 27:12
  or
• 27:12
  yourself
• 27:13
  in
• 27:13
  time,
• 27:14
  right?
• 27:15
  And
• 27:15
  we
• 27:15
  do
• 27:16
  that.
• 27:16
  And
• 27:16
  the
• 27:17
  same
• 27:17
  principle
• 27:17
  then
• 27:17
  applies
• 27:18
  to
• 27:18
  almost
• 27:18
  everything
• 27:18
  to
• 27:19
  do
• 27:19
  with
• 27:19
  carrier.
• 27:20
  So
• 27:20
  whether
• 27:20
  it
• 27:20
  is
• 27:20
  engagement
• 27:21
  surveys,
• 27:21
  performance
• 27:22
  reviews,
• 27:23
  managers
• 27:23
  having
• 27:23
  their
• 27:23
  one
• 27:24
  to
• 27:24
  one
• 27:24
  leadership,
• 27:25
  looking
• 27:25
  at
• 27:25
  different
• 27:26
  insights,
• 27:26
  all
• 27:27
  of
• 27:27
  these
• 27:27
  things
• 27:27
  supercharged
• 27:28
  with
• 27:28
  this
• 27:28
  pattern
• 27:29
  recognition
• 27:29
  system.
• 27:30
  Here's
• 27:30
  an
• 27:30
  interesting
• 27:31
  question.
• 27:31
  If
• 27:32
  we
• 27:32
  take
• 27:32
  the
• 27:32
  theory
• 27:33
  that
• 27:33
  it's
• 27:33
  monitoring
• 27:34
  patterns
• 27:35
  in
• 27:35
  my
• 27:35
  work,
• 27:35
  right.
• 27:36
  One
• 27:36
  of
• 27:36
  the
• 27:37
  operational
• 27:38
  challenges
• 27:38
  I
• 27:38
  can
• 27:38
  only
• 27:39
  imagine
• 27:39
  might
• 27:39
  be
• 27:40
  the
• 27:40
  fact
• 27:40
  that
• 27:40
  people
• 27:41
  might
• 27:41
  feel
• 27:41
  like
• 27:41
  they're
• 27:42
  being
• 27:42
  watched.
• 27:43
  Is
• 27:43
  that
• 27:44
  ever
• 27:44
  the
• 27:45
  surveillance
• 27:45
  state
• 27:46
  sort
• 27:46
  of
• 27:47
  thinking,
• 27:47
  is
• 27:48
  that
• 27:48
  been
• 27:49
  a
• 27:49
  concern
• 27:50
  or
• 27:50
  an
• 27:50
  issue
• 27:50
  that
• 27:50
  you've
• 27:51
  had
• 27:51
  to
• 27:51
  confront
• 27:51
  throughout
• 27:52
  the
• 27:52
  process?
• 27:52
  And
• 27:53
  that's
• 27:53
  a
• 27:53
  fair
• 27:53
  concern.
• 27:54
  Like
• 27:54
  especially
• 27:55
  if
• 27:55
  you
• 27:56
  look
• 27:56
  at
• 27:56
  it
• 27:56
  as
• 27:56
  like
• 27:56
  it's
• 27:56
  a
• 27:56
  performance
• 27:57
  system,
• 27:57
  it's
• 27:58
  about
• 27:58
  your
• 27:58
  carrier
• 27:59
  and
• 27:59
  then
• 27:59
  suddenly
• 27:59
  you're
• 28:00
  looking
• 28:00
  at
• 28:00
  my
• 28:00
  work
• 28:00
  patterns,
• 28:01
  what's
• 28:01
  going
• 28:01
  on
• 28:01
  there?
• 28:02
  So
• 28:02
  the
• 28:02
  way
• 28:03
  we
• 28:03
  approach
• 28:03
  it
• 28:03
  is
• 28:04
  you
• 28:04
  really
• 28:04
  don't
• 28:04
  have
• 28:04
  to
• 28:04
  go
• 28:05
  towards
• 28:05
  the
• 28:05
  sensitive
• 28:05
  data,
• 28:06
  collect
• 28:06
  people's
• 28:07
  private
• 28:07
  conversations
• 28:08
  or
• 28:08
  emails
• 28:09
  or
• 28:09
  Slack
• 28:10
  conversations,
• 28:10
  none
• 28:10
  of
• 28:11
  that.
• 28:12
  What
• 28:12
  we
• 28:12
  actually
• 28:13
  look
• 28:13
  at
• 28:13
  is
• 28:13
  the
• 28:13
  data
• 28:14
  that
• 28:14
  is
• 28:14
  generally
• 28:15
  discarded.
• 28:15
  So
• 28:15
  for
• 28:16
  example
• 28:16
  GitHub
• 28:17
  or
• 28:17
  Jira
• 28:18
  or
• 28:18
  conference
• 28:18
  pages,
• 28:19
  people
• 28:19
  are
• 28:20
  generally
• 28:20
  working
• 28:20
  there
• 28:21
  in
• 28:21
  a
• 28:21
  more
• 28:21
  public
• 28:21
  capacity,
• 28:22
  not
• 28:22
  like
• 28:23
  in
• 28:23
  a
• 28:23
  private
• 28:23
  capacity,
• 28:23
  right.
• 28:24
  So
• 28:25
  that
• 28:25
  data
• 28:25
  is
• 28:25
  always
• 28:25
  there.
• 28:26
  And
• 28:26
  by
• 28:26
  the
• 28:26
  way,
• 28:26
  those
• 28:26
  systems
• 28:27
  already
• 28:27
  use
• 28:28
  that
• 28:28
  data.
• 28:28
  What
• 28:29
  we
• 28:29
  look
• 28:29
  at
• 28:29
  it
• 28:29
  is
• 28:29
  like,
• 28:30
  it's
• 28:30
  almost
• 28:30
  like
• 28:31
  recycling
• 28:32
  the
• 28:32
  data.
• 28:33
  So
• 28:33
  looking
• 28:33
  at
• 28:34
  something
• 28:34
  that
• 28:34
  companies
• 28:34
  generally
• 28:35
  don't
• 28:35
  care
• 28:35
  about,
• 28:36
  but
• 28:37
  there's
• 28:37
  a
• 28:37
  lot
• 28:37
  of
• 28:37
  signals
• 28:38
  that
• 28:38
  you
• 28:38
  can
• 28:38
  get
• 28:38
  out
• 28:39
  of
• 28:39
  it,
• 28:39
  right?
• 28:40
  So
• 28:40
  we
• 28:40
  look
• 28:40
  at
• 28:40
  that
• 28:41
  data
• 28:41
  and
• 28:41
  you'd
• 28:41
  be
• 28:41
  surprised,
• 28:42
  Mike,
• 28:42
  like
• 28:42
  how
• 28:43
  much
• 28:43
  you
• 28:43
  can
• 28:43
  derive
• 28:44
  from
• 28:44
  something
• 28:45
  which
• 28:45
  is
• 28:45
  already
• 28:46
  there.
• 28:46
  So
• 28:46
  it's
• 28:46
  not
• 28:47
  monitoring,
• 28:48
  it's
• 28:48
  more
• 28:48
  of
• 28:49
  analyzing
• 28:50
  publicly
• 28:51
  accessible
• 28:52
  within
• 28:52
  the
• 28:52
  company
• 28:52
  environment
• 28:53
  data
• 28:53
  for
• 28:53
  that
• 28:54
  individual.
• 28:55
  That's
• 28:55
  good.
• 28:56
  That
• 28:56
  kind
• 28:56
  of
• 28:57
  puts
• 28:57
  a
• 28:57
  lot
• 28:57
  of
• 28:57
  People's
• 28:58
  minds
• 28:58
  at
• 28:58
  ease.
• 28:58
  And
• 28:58
  ultimately
• 28:59
  I
• 28:59
  presume,
• 29:00
  and
• 29:00
  this
• 29:01
  by
• 29:01
  the
• 29:01
  way
• 29:01
  guys,
• 29:01
  this
• 29:02
  isn't
• 29:02
  a
• 29:02
  plug
• 29:02
  for
• 29:03
  clarity
• 29:03
  loop
• 29:03
  or
• 29:04
  anything,
• 29:04
  but
• 29:04
  I
• 29:04
  presume
• 29:04
  you've
• 29:05
  already.
• 29:05
  This
• 29:05
  is
• 29:06
  an
• 29:06
  obvious
• 29:06
  thing
• 29:06
  that
• 29:07
  would
• 29:07
  come
• 29:07
  up,
• 29:07
  right?
• 29:07
  You
• 29:08
  guys
• 29:08
  are
• 29:08
  watching
• 29:08
  me,
• 29:08
  blah,
• 29:09
  blah,
• 29:09
  blah
• 29:09
  and
• 29:10
  fully
• 29:10
  understandable,
• 29:11
  right?
• 29:11
  So
• 29:11
  then
• 29:12
  presumably
• 29:12
  your
• 29:13
  thinking
• 29:13
  is
• 29:13
  you've
• 29:14
  got
• 29:14
  to
• 29:14
  make
• 29:14
  sure
• 29:14
  that
• 29:15
  it's
• 29:15
  a
• 29:15
  win
• 29:15
  win,
• 29:15
  right,
• 29:16
  for
• 29:16
  the
• 29:16
  employee
• 29:17
  and
• 29:17
  for
• 29:17
  the
• 29:17
  manager
• 29:18
  to
• 29:19
  make
• 29:19
  sure
• 29:19
  that
• 29:19
  it's
• 29:20
  not
• 29:20
  hurting
• 29:21
  people
• 29:21
  career
• 29:22
  wise
• 29:22
  or
• 29:23
  whatever.
• 29:24
  Absolutely,
• 29:25
  absolutely.
• 29:26
  So
• 29:26
  this
• 29:26
  is
• 29:26
  quite
• 29:26
  deep
• 29:27
  actually
• 29:27
  in
• 29:27
  the
• 29:27
  traditional
• 29:28
  sense.
• 29:28
  Majority
• 29:28
  of
• 29:29
  the
• 29:30
  sort
• 29:30
  of
• 29:31
  assessments
• 29:31
  in
• 29:32
  the
• 29:32
  past,
• 29:32
  when
• 29:32
  you
• 29:33
  look
• 29:33
  at
• 29:33
  who's
• 29:33
  performing,
• 29:34
  who's
• 29:34
  not
• 29:34
  performing,
• 29:35
  has
• 29:35
  been
• 29:35
  very
• 29:36
  output
• 29:36
  driven.
• 29:37
  So
• 29:37
  what
• 29:37
  I
• 29:37
  mean
• 29:37
  by
• 29:38
  that
• 29:38
  is,
• 29:38
  okay,
• 29:39
  look
• 29:39
  at,
• 29:39
  and
• 29:39
  I'm
• 29:39
  not
• 29:40
  saying
• 29:40
  every
• 29:40
  company
• 29:40
  does
• 29:40
  it.
• 29:41
  In
• 29:42
  fact
• 29:42
  there
• 29:42
  are
• 29:42
  a
• 29:43
  lot
• 29:43
  of
• 29:43
  good
• 29:43
  companies
• 29:43
  who
• 29:43
  don't
• 29:44
  care
• 29:44
  about
• 29:44
  those
• 29:44
  kind
• 29:44
  of
• 29:44
  metrics.
• 29:45
  But
• 29:45
  there's
• 29:45
  a
• 29:46
  lot
• 29:46
  of
• 29:46
  companies
• 29:46
  especially
• 29:47
  nowadays
• 29:48
  where,
• 29:48
  okay,
• 29:48
  how
• 29:49
  many
• 29:49
  AI
• 29:49
  sessions
• 29:49
  you
• 29:50
  had,
• 29:50
  how
• 29:50
  many
• 29:50
  GitHub
• 29:50
  commits
• 29:51
  you
• 29:51
  did,
• 29:51
  how
• 29:51
  many
• 29:52
  pull
• 29:52
  requests
• 29:53
  you
• 29:53
  merged,
• 29:54
  right?
• 29:54
  And
• 29:55
  these
• 29:55
  are
• 29:55
  the
• 29:55
  metrics
• 29:56
  which
• 29:56
  are,
• 29:57
  if
• 29:57
  you're
• 29:57
  looking
• 29:58
  at
• 29:58
  them
• 29:58
  and
• 29:59
  then
• 29:59
  deciding
• 29:59
  people's
• 29:59
  performance,
• 30:00
  you're
• 30:00
  really
• 30:01
  setting
• 30:01
  yourself
• 30:02
  and
• 30:02
  that
• 30:02
  person
• 30:02
  for
• 30:03
  failure
• 30:03
  because
• 30:04
  they
• 30:04
  can
• 30:04
  be
• 30:04
  faked,
• 30:05
  first
• 30:05
  of
• 30:05
  all.
• 30:05
  And
• 30:05
  that's
• 30:06
  definitely
• 30:06
  not
• 30:07
  a
• 30:07
  matter
• 30:07
  of
• 30:07
  somebody's
• 30:08
  complexity
• 30:09
  of
• 30:09
  the
• 30:09
  problem
• 30:09
  or
• 30:10
  their
• 30:10
  behavioral
• 30:11
  side
• 30:11
  of
• 30:11
  things.
• 30:12
  It
• 30:12
  doesn't
• 30:12
  really
• 30:12
  capture
• 30:13
  any
• 30:13
  of
• 30:13
  that.
• 30:13
  What
• 30:14
  we
• 30:14
  try
• 30:14
  to
• 30:14
  do
• 30:14
  is
• 30:14
  move
• 30:15
  away
• 30:15
  from
• 30:15
  that
• 30:15
  sort
• 30:16
  of
• 30:16
  assessment
• 30:16
  model
• 30:17
  towards
• 30:18
  outcome
• 30:18
  focused.
• 30:19
  So
• 30:19
  not
• 30:19
  the
• 30:20
  output,
• 30:20
  but
• 30:20
  the
• 30:20
  outcome
• 30:21
  focused.
• 30:22
  What
• 30:22
  really
• 30:22
  matters
• 30:23
  is
• 30:23
  not
• 30:24
  like
• 30:24
  how
• 30:25
  much
• 30:25
  somebody
• 30:25
  did,
• 30:26
  but
• 30:27
  how
• 30:27
  sort
• 30:27
  of
• 30:28
  their
• 30:28
  contribution
• 30:28
  made
• 30:29
  an
• 30:29
  impact
• 30:29
  on
• 30:29
  the
• 30:29
  overall
• 30:30
  company.
• 30:31
  That's
• 30:31
  a
• 30:31
  good
• 30:31
  way
• 30:31
  of
• 30:32
  thinking.
• 30:32
  Yes.
• 30:32
  It's
• 30:32
  like
• 30:32
  an
• 30:33
  overall,
• 30:33
  it's
• 30:33
  like
• 30:34
  a
• 30:34
  team
• 30:34
  game.
• 30:35
  It's
• 30:35
  team
• 30:35
  game.
• 30:36
  Exactly.
• 30:36
  And
• 30:37
  the
• 30:37
  reason
• 30:37
  I
• 30:37
  think
• 30:37
  what
• 30:38
  you
• 30:38
  care
• 30:38
  about
• 30:38
  the
• 30:38
  win
• 30:38
  win,
• 30:39
  what
• 30:39
  we
• 30:39
  try
• 30:39
  to
• 30:39
  do
• 30:40
  is
• 30:40
  okay,
• 30:40
  this
• 30:40
  is
• 30:40
  a
• 30:40
  metric
• 30:41
  and
• 30:41
  this
• 30:41
  is
• 30:41
  a
• 30:41
  very
• 30:41
  big
• 30:41
  shift,
• 30:43
  let's
• 30:43
  say
• 30:44
  in
• 30:44
  any
• 30:45
  company
• 30:45
  I
• 30:45
  worked
• 30:45
  in
• 30:46
  or
• 30:46
  I'm
• 30:46
  sure
• 30:47
  every
• 30:47
  company,
• 30:48
  all
• 30:48
  the
• 30:48
  tools
• 30:49
  that
• 30:49
  is
• 30:49
  out
• 30:49
  there,
• 30:50
  they
• 30:50
  have
• 30:50
  a
• 30:51
  section
• 30:51
  called
• 30:51
  admin
• 30:52
  panel
• 30:53
  where
• 30:53
  a
• 30:54
  manager
• 30:54
  or
• 30:54
  HR
• 30:54
  or
• 30:55
  somebody
• 30:55
  can
• 30:55
  go
• 30:55
  and
• 30:55
  look
• 30:56
  at
• 30:56
  all
• 30:56
  the
• 30:56
  insights,
• 30:57
  right?
• 30:58
  And
• 30:58
  you
• 30:58
  can
• 30:58
  report,
• 30:59
  get
• 30:59
  report
• 30:59
  on
• 30:59
  this
• 31:00
  and
• 31:00
  that.
• 31:00
  I'm
• 31:00
  not
• 31:00
  saying
• 31:00
  that
• 31:01
  this
• 31:01
  is
• 31:01
  fault
• 31:01
  of
• 31:02
  those
• 31:02
  systems
• 31:03
  but
• 31:03
  other
• 31:03
  thing
• 31:03
  is
• 31:03
  those
• 31:04
  data
• 31:04
  points
• 31:04
  can
• 31:05
  be
• 31:05
  misused
• 31:05
  or
• 31:05
  misinterpreted
• 31:07
  in
• 31:07
  so
• 31:07
  many
• 31:07
  other
• 31:07
  ways.
• 31:08
  So
• 31:08
  what
• 31:09
  we
• 31:09
  are
• 31:09
  trying
• 31:09
  to
• 31:09
  do
• 31:09
  is.
• 31:09
  Okay,
• 31:10
  we.
• 31:10
  Okay,
• 31:11
  first
• 31:11
  of
• 31:11
  all,
• 31:11
  it's
• 31:11
  a
• 31:12
  team
• 31:12
  game.
• 31:12
  You
• 31:12
  look
• 31:12
  at
• 31:13
  the
• 31:13
  patterns
• 31:13
  and
• 31:14
  how
• 31:14
  the
• 31:14
  impact
• 31:15
  has
• 31:15
  been
• 31:15
  for
• 31:15
  the
• 31:16
  team
• 31:16
  and
• 31:16
  the
• 31:16
  company.
• 31:17
  But
• 31:17
  then
• 31:17
  more
• 31:18
  importantly,
• 31:18
  what
• 31:18
  you
• 31:18
  do
• 31:18
  is
• 31:19
  you
• 31:19
  make
• 31:19
  the
• 31:19
  person
• 31:19
  himself
• 31:20
  or
• 31:20
  herself
• 31:21
  aware
• 31:21
  of
• 31:21
  that.
• 31:21
  So
• 31:21
  it's
• 31:22
  about
• 31:22
  what
• 31:22
  we
• 31:22
  try
• 31:22
  to
• 31:22
  do
• 31:23
  is,
• 31:23
  let's
• 31:23
  say
• 31:23
  again,
• 31:24
  going
• 31:24
  back
• 31:24
  to
• 31:24
  a
• 31:24
  team
• 31:24
  of
• 31:25
  engineers
• 31:25
  working
• 31:25
  together.
• 31:26
  And
• 31:27
  when
• 31:27
  we
• 31:27
  are
• 31:27
  analyzing
• 31:27
  these
• 31:28
  patterns,
• 31:28
  the
• 31:29
  person
• 31:29
  himself
• 31:29
  or
• 31:29
  herself
• 31:30
  would
• 31:30
  be
• 31:30
  the
• 31:30
  first
• 31:31
  one
• 31:31
  to
• 31:31
  know
• 31:31
  about
• 31:32
  those
• 31:32
  things
• 31:32
  and
• 31:33
  that
• 31:33
  they
• 31:33
  decide
• 31:33
  what
• 31:34
  to
• 31:34
  do
• 31:34
  with
• 31:34
  it
• 31:34
  rather
• 31:35
  than
• 31:35
  their
• 31:35
  manager
• 31:35
  or
• 31:35
  the
• 31:36
  HR
• 31:36
  or
• 31:36
  somebody
• 31:36
  else.
• 31:37
  So
• 31:37
  this
• 31:37
  is
• 31:37
  more
• 31:37
  of
• 31:37
  interesting.
• 31:39
  This
• 31:39
  is
• 31:39
  more
• 31:39
  of
• 31:40
  the
• 31:40
  data
• 31:40
  is
• 31:40
  there,
• 31:41
  which
• 31:41
  was
• 31:41
  wasted.
• 31:42
  Now
• 31:42
  I'm
• 31:43
  using
• 31:43
  it
• 31:43
  to
• 31:43
  grow
• 31:43
  myself.
• 31:45
  Right.
• 31:45
  And
• 31:45
  if
• 31:46
  I
• 31:46
  need.
• 31:46
  And
• 31:46
  then
• 31:47
  at
• 31:47
  that
• 31:47
  point,
• 31:47
  you
• 31:47
  can
• 31:48
  decide
• 31:48
  whether
• 31:49
  you
• 31:49
  wanted
• 31:49
  your
• 31:49
  manager
• 31:50
  support
• 31:50
  or
• 31:50
  your
• 31:51
  team
• 31:51
  lead
• 31:51
  support
• 31:51
  or
• 31:52
  your
• 31:52
  HR
• 31:52
  support,
• 31:53
  and
• 31:53
  you
• 31:53
  bring
• 31:53
  them
• 31:53
  in.
• 31:54
  What
• 31:54
  is
• 31:54
  important
• 31:54
  is
• 31:55
  you
• 31:55
  yourself
• 31:56
  are
• 31:56
  taking
• 31:57
  in
• 31:57
  charge,
• 31:57
  being
• 31:58
  in
• 31:58
  charge
• 31:58
  of
• 31:58
  your
• 31:59
  own
• 31:59
  carrier
• 31:59
  and
• 32:00
  then
• 32:00
  moving
• 32:01
  ahead
• 32:01
  from
• 32:01
  in
• 32:02
  that
• 32:02
  direction.
• 32:02
  I
• 32:02
  suppose
• 32:03
  an
• 32:03
  interesting
• 32:04
  way,
• 32:04
  and
• 32:04
  I
• 32:04
  love
• 32:05
  a
• 32:05
  good
• 32:05
  analogy.
• 32:06
  So
• 32:06
  it's
• 32:07
  a
• 32:07
  bit
• 32:07
  like
• 32:07
  having
• 32:07
  your
• 32:08
  own
• 32:08
  personal
• 32:08
  trainer
• 32:09
  for
• 32:09
  your
• 32:09
  career
• 32:10
  and
• 32:10
  thinking
• 32:11
  about
• 32:11
  it
• 32:11
  that
• 32:11
  way.
• 32:12
  It's
• 32:12
  about
• 32:12
  bettering
• 32:13
  your
• 32:13
  career,
• 32:13
  bettering
• 32:14
  your
• 32:14
  outcomes,
• 32:15
  and
• 32:15
  it
• 32:16
  gives
• 32:16
  context
• 32:17
  to
• 32:17
  things
• 32:18
  rather
• 32:18
  than.
• 32:19
  Yeah,
• 32:20
  okay,
• 32:20
  cool.
• 32:23
  Sorry,
• 32:23
  go
• 32:24
  ahead.
• 32:24
  This
• 32:25
  is
• 32:25
  very
• 32:25
  originally,
• 32:25
  this
• 32:26
  is
• 32:26
  what
• 32:26
  I
• 32:26
  was
• 32:26
  dreaming
• 32:27
  about,
• 32:27
  having
• 32:27
  this
• 32:28
  sort
• 32:28
  of
• 32:28
  somebody
• 32:29
  who
• 32:29
  could
• 32:29
  do
• 32:29
  that
• 32:29
  job
• 32:30
  for
• 32:30
  me
• 32:30
  and
• 32:30
  help
• 32:30
  me
• 32:31
  grow.
• 32:31
  And
• 32:31
  now
• 32:33
  I
• 32:33
  knew
• 32:35
  that
• 32:35
  the
• 32:36
  work
• 32:36
  that
• 32:36
  I
• 32:36
  did
• 32:37
  or
• 32:37
  my
• 32:37
  teams
• 32:37
  did
• 32:38
  is
• 32:38
  already
• 32:38
  there
• 32:39
  is
• 32:39
  out
• 32:39
  there,
• 32:40
  but
• 32:40
  I
• 32:40
  don't
• 32:41
  have.
• 32:41
  When
• 32:41
  I
• 32:41
  was
• 32:41
  a
• 32:41
  manager
• 32:42
  managing,
• 32:42
  like,
• 32:42
  I
• 32:42
  don't
• 32:42
  know,
• 32:43
  hundreds
• 32:43
  of
• 32:43
  people,
• 32:44
  not
• 32:44
  a
• 32:45
  manager,
• 32:45
  but
• 32:45
  like
• 32:45
  a
• 32:45
  manager's
• 32:46
  manager,
• 32:46
  I
• 32:46
  had
• 32:47
  no
• 32:47
  way
• 32:47
  of
• 32:48
  assessing
• 32:48
  that.
• 32:49
  That
• 32:49
  way,
• 32:50
  you
• 32:50
  know,
• 32:50
  like
• 32:51
  I
• 32:51
  could
• 32:51
  get
• 32:51
  these
• 32:51
  fancy
• 32:52
  metrics
• 32:52
  about
• 32:52
  velocity
• 32:53
  or,
• 32:54
  you
• 32:54
  know,
• 32:54
  like
• 32:55
  again,
• 32:55
  like
• 32:55
  GitHub
• 32:56
  Commits
• 32:56
  or
• 32:56
  this
• 32:56
  commit
• 32:57
  or
• 32:57
  that
• 32:57
  commit.
• 32:58
  But
• 32:58
  that's
• 32:58
  not
• 32:58
  the
• 32:58
  real
• 32:59
  picture.
• 32:59
  So
• 32:59
  that's
• 33:00
  been
• 33:00
  the
• 33:00
  hardest
• 33:00
  part,
• 33:00
  honestly,.
• 33:01
  One
• 33:01
  of
• 33:01
  the
• 33:01
  most
• 33:02
  interesting
• 33:02
  things,
• 33:03
  I
• 33:03
  think
• 33:03
  I
• 33:03
  came
• 33:04
  into
• 33:04
  this
• 33:04
  podcast
• 33:05
  thinking
• 33:05
  the
• 33:05
  software
• 33:06
  was
• 33:06
  a
• 33:06
  certain
• 33:06
  way,
• 33:07
  and
• 33:07
  now
• 33:07
  I
• 33:08
  understand
• 33:08
  it
• 33:08
  so
• 33:08
  much
• 33:09
  more.
• 33:09
  We
• 33:09
  obviously
• 33:10
  met
• 33:10
  before
• 33:10
  this.
• 33:10
  Everyone
• 33:11
  knows
• 33:11
  that
• 33:11
  who
• 33:11
  listens.
• 33:12
  And
• 33:12
  I
• 33:13
  got
• 33:13
  to
• 33:13
  know
• 33:13
  you
• 33:13
  a
• 33:13
  little
• 33:14
  bit,
• 33:14
  but
• 33:15
  I
• 33:15
  also
• 33:15
  looked
• 33:16
  at
• 33:16
  the
• 33:16
  website
• 33:16
  and
• 33:17
  dug
• 33:17
  in
• 33:17
  more
• 33:17
  to
• 33:18
  the
• 33:18
  company.
• 33:18
  And
• 33:18
  actually,
• 33:19
  I
• 33:19
  think
• 33:20
  what
• 33:20
  you're
• 33:20
  doing
• 33:20
  is
• 33:20
  incredible
• 33:21
  in
• 33:21
  the
• 33:21
  sense
• 33:21
  that
• 33:22
  what
• 33:22
  you're
• 33:22
  really
• 33:23
  doing,
• 33:23
  if
• 33:23
  I
• 33:24
  understand
• 33:24
  it
• 33:24
  correctly,
• 33:25
  is
• 33:25
  you're
• 33:25
  kind
• 33:26
  of
• 33:26
  being
• 33:26
  the
• 33:27
  greatest
• 33:27
  fan,
• 33:28
  the
• 33:28
  greatest
• 33:28
  advocate,
• 33:29
  somebody
• 33:29
  who's
• 33:30
  there
• 33:30
  to
• 33:30
  make
• 33:30
  sure
• 33:31
  that
• 33:32
  they
• 33:32
  just
• 33:32
  get
• 33:32
  better
• 33:32
  and
• 33:33
  better
• 33:33
  and
• 33:33
  better
• 33:34
  and
• 33:35
  that
• 33:36
  management
• 33:36
  really
• 33:37
  understands
• 33:37
  the
• 33:38
  impact
• 33:38
  they're
• 33:38
  making.
• 33:39
  Right.
• 33:39
  So
• 33:40
  that's
• 33:40
  the
• 33:40
  win
• 33:40
  win.
• 33:41
  Absolutely.
• 33:41
  Absolutely.
• 33:42
  That's
• 33:42
  the
• 33:42
  marketing
• 33:43
  brain?
• 33:43
  No,
• 33:44
  no,
• 33:44
  I
• 33:44
  think
• 33:44
  the
• 33:44
  website
• 33:45
  needs.
• 33:45
  Needs
• 33:46
  a
• 33:46
  bit
• 33:46
  more
• 33:46
  love
• 33:47
  and
• 33:47
  actually
• 33:47
  I'm
• 33:47
  working
• 33:47
  on
• 33:48
  that
• 33:48
  right
• 33:48
  now.
• 33:49
  But
• 33:49
  yeah,
• 33:49
  the
• 33:49
  whole
• 33:50
  website
• 33:50
  needs
• 33:50
  redefining.
• 33:51
  But
• 33:51
  I
• 33:52
  think
• 33:52
  that
• 33:52
  is
• 33:52
  the
• 33:52
  case.
• 33:52
  And
• 33:53
  this
• 33:53
  is
• 33:53
  exactly
• 33:53
  what
• 33:54
  I'm
• 33:54
  excited
• 33:54
  about,
• 33:54
  honestly.
• 33:55
  It's
• 33:55
  like
• 33:55
  a
• 33:56
  Fitbit
• 33:56
  of
• 33:56
  my
• 33:56
  carrier
• 33:57
  always
• 33:57
  on.
• 33:57
  On
• 33:58
  me
• 33:58
  looking
• 33:59
  at
• 33:59
  it
• 33:59
  and
• 33:59
  that
• 34:00
  keep
• 34:00
  working
• 34:00
  for
• 34:01
  me.
• 34:01
  It
• 34:01
  throws
• 34:01
  me
• 34:02
  to
• 34:02
  the
• 34:02
  next
• 34:02
  question.
• 34:03
  Can
• 34:04
  software
• 34:05
  actually
• 34:05
  teach
• 34:06
  a
• 34:06
  bad
• 34:06
  manager
• 34:07
  how
• 34:07
  to
• 34:08
  lead
• 34:08
  better?
• 34:08
  So,
• 34:09
  like,
• 34:09
  if
• 34:09
  we're
• 34:09
  going
• 34:09
  up
• 34:10
  the
• 34:10
  chain
• 34:10
  and
• 34:11
  bad.
• 34:11
  Bad
• 34:12
  is
• 34:12
  obviously
• 34:13
  somewhat
• 34:13
  subjective,
• 34:15
  but
• 34:15
  then
• 34:15
  it
• 34:15
  depends
• 34:16
  on
• 34:16
  how
• 34:16
  you
• 34:16
  measure
• 34:16
  things,
• 34:17
  like
• 34:17
  you
• 34:17
  said,
• 34:17
  right?
• 34:18
  Like,
• 34:18
  let's
• 34:18
  say
• 34:19
  that
• 34:19
  your
• 34:20
  way
• 34:20
  of
• 34:20
  measuring
• 34:21
  a
• 34:21
  bad
• 34:21
  manager
• 34:22
  for.
• 34:22
  And
• 34:22
  let's
• 34:23
  just
• 34:23
  say
• 34:23
  that
• 34:24
  we
• 34:24
  assume
• 34:24
  the
• 34:24
  metric.
• 34:25
  Right.
• 34:25
  We
• 34:25
  know
• 34:25
  what
• 34:25
  it
• 34:25
  is,
• 34:26
  but
• 34:27
  actually
• 34:27
  it's
• 34:27
  very
• 34:27
  difficult
• 34:28
  because
• 34:29
  it
• 34:29
  might
• 34:29
  be.
• 34:29
  Some
• 34:30
  people
• 34:30
  give
• 34:30
  bad
• 34:31
  feedback.
• 34:31
  Right.
• 34:32
  Or
• 34:32
  we
• 34:33
  could
• 34:33
  say
• 34:33
  that
• 34:33
  the
• 34:33
  team
• 34:34
  is
• 34:34
  not
• 34:34
  performing.
• 34:35
  There
• 34:35
  are
• 34:35
  two
• 34:35
  ways
• 34:36
  of
• 34:36
  looking
• 34:36
  at
• 34:36
  it.
• 34:37
  One
• 34:37
  is
• 34:37
  theoretically
• 34:38
  quantifiable
• 34:39
  and
• 34:39
  one
• 34:39
  isn't.
• 34:40
  It's
• 34:40
  interesting
• 34:41
  if
• 34:41
  we're
• 34:42
  talking
• 34:42
  about
• 34:42
  context,
• 34:43
  I
• 34:43
  just
• 34:43
  thought
• 34:44
  I'd
• 34:44
  ask
• 34:44
  the
• 34:44
  curveball
• 34:45
  question
• 34:45
  and
• 34:46
  say,
• 34:46
  yeah,
• 34:46
  yeah.
• 34:47
  Could
• 34:47
  this
• 34:47
  also
• 34:47
  make
• 34:48
  a
• 34:48
  manager
• 34:48
  better,
• 34:50
  what
• 34:50
  they're
• 34:50
  doing?
• 34:50
  Look,
• 34:51
  I'd
• 34:51
  been
• 34:51
  a
• 34:51
  bad
• 34:51
  manager
• 34:52
  in
• 34:52
  all
• 34:52
  honesty,
• 34:53
  right,
• 34:53
  I'm
• 34:54
  sure
• 34:54
  you
• 34:54
  have
• 34:54
  been.
• 34:55
  No,
• 34:56
  I
• 34:56
  have
• 34:56
  been.
• 34:56
  I
• 34:56
  have
• 34:57
  been
• 34:57
  like,
• 34:58
  I
• 34:58
  was
• 34:58
  a
• 34:58
  good
• 34:58
  engineer
• 34:59
  and
• 34:59
  then
• 35:00
  I
• 35:00
  got
• 35:00
  to
• 35:01
  be
• 35:01
  a
• 35:01
  manager
• 35:01
  and
• 35:02
  I
• 35:02
  suddenly
• 35:03
  had
• 35:03
  to
• 35:04
  understand
• 35:04
  what
• 35:04
  it
• 35:04
  means
• 35:04
  by
• 35:05
  people,
• 35:05
  what
• 35:05
  it
• 35:05
  means
• 35:06
  by
• 35:06
  performance
• 35:07
  and
• 35:07
  everything.
• 35:07
  And
• 35:08
  I
• 35:08
  pretended
• 35:08
  for
• 35:08
  a
• 35:09
  long
• 35:09
  time,
• 35:09
  but
• 35:09
  I
• 35:09
  really
• 35:09
  sucked
• 35:10
  at
• 35:10
  it.
• 35:10
  So
• 35:11
  I
• 35:11
  can
• 35:11
  relate
• 35:11
  to
• 35:11
  that,
• 35:12
  like
• 35:13
  what
• 35:13
  it
• 35:13
  means
• 35:13
  by
• 35:13
  a
• 35:14
  bad
• 35:14
  manager
• 35:14
  and
• 35:14
  what
• 35:15
  it
• 35:15
  means
• 35:15
  suddenly.
• 35:16
  So
• 35:16
  you're
• 35:16
  not
• 35:16
  a
• 35:16
  bad
• 35:16
  person.
• 35:17
  You
• 35:17
  want
• 35:18
  to
• 35:18
  do
• 35:18
  the
• 35:18
  right
• 35:18
  thing,
• 35:19
  but
• 35:19
  you
• 35:19
  just
• 35:19
  suck
• 35:19
  at
• 35:20
  it.
• 35:20
  And
• 35:20
  then
• 35:20
  I
• 35:21
  think,
• 35:21
  I
• 35:21
  hope
• 35:21
  I
• 35:22
  became
• 35:22
  a
• 35:22
  better
• 35:22
  manager
• 35:23
  over
• 35:23
  time,
• 35:23
  a
• 35:24
  better
• 35:24
  people
• 35:24
  person.
• 35:24
  And
• 35:25
  one
• 35:25
  of
• 35:25
  the
• 35:25
  reason
• 35:26
  that
• 35:26
  happened
• 35:27
  is
• 35:27
  first
• 35:27
  realization
• 35:28
  that
• 35:28
  you
• 35:29
  can't
• 35:29
  be
• 35:29
  a
• 35:29
  good
• 35:29
  people
• 35:30
  person
• 35:30
  just
• 35:30
  by
• 35:30
  writing
• 35:31
  good
• 35:31
  code.
• 35:31
  So
• 35:32
  just
• 35:32
  realizing,
• 35:32
  like,
• 35:32
  there's
• 35:33
  so
• 35:33
  much
• 35:33
  more
• 35:34
  to
• 35:34
  this
• 35:34
  than
• 35:35
  just.
• 35:35
  Just
• 35:35
  like
• 35:36
  being
• 35:36
  more
• 35:36
  senior.
• 35:36
  But
• 35:37
  I
• 35:37
  think
• 35:37
  more
• 35:37
  importantly,
• 35:38
  a
• 35:38
  lot
• 35:38
  of
• 35:38
  the
• 35:38
  managers.
• 35:40
  And
• 35:40
  again,
• 35:40
  like,
• 35:40
  this
• 35:40
  is
• 35:41
  probably
• 35:41
  more
• 35:41
  true
• 35:41
  in
• 35:41
  the.
• 35:42
  In
• 35:42
  the
• 35:42
  engineering
• 35:43
  context,
• 35:44
  like
• 35:44
  the
• 35:44
  technical
• 35:45
  engineering
• 35:45
  context.
• 35:46
  They.
• 35:47
  They're
• 35:47
  really
• 35:47
  good
• 35:47
  analysts.
• 35:48
  Right.
• 35:48
  They're
• 35:49
  really
• 35:49
  good
• 35:49
  at
• 35:49
  like
• 35:49
  analyzing
• 35:50
  data
• 35:51
  dashboards,
• 35:51
  this
• 35:52
  and
• 35:52
  that.
• 35:52
  And
• 35:52
  they're
• 35:52
  very
• 35:53
  logical
• 35:53
  in
• 35:53
  their
• 35:53
  thing
• 35:54
  numbers.
• 35:55
  Exactly.
• 35:55
  And
• 35:56
  like
• 35:56
  very
• 35:56
  good.
• 35:57
  When
• 35:57
  you
• 35:57
  put
• 35:58
  some
• 35:58
  sort
• 35:58
  of
• 35:58
  logical
• 35:58
  explanation
• 35:59
  in
• 35:59
  something,
• 35:59
  they
• 36:00
  understand
• 36:00
  it.
• 36:00
  They're
• 36:00
  really
• 36:00
  excited
• 36:01
  about
• 36:01
  it.
• 36:01
  If
• 36:02
  you
• 36:02
  keep
• 36:02
  things
• 36:02
  gray.
• 36:03
  And
• 36:03
  I
• 36:03
  really
• 36:03
  struggled
• 36:04
  with
• 36:04
  that.
• 36:04
  Is
• 36:04
  Like
• 36:04
  I
• 36:05
  just
• 36:05
  want
• 36:05
  to
• 36:05
  live
• 36:05
  in
• 36:05
  the
• 36:05
  gray
• 36:06
  zone.
• 36:06
  So
• 36:06
  I
• 36:07
  think
• 36:07
  what
• 36:07
  is
• 36:07
  important
• 36:08
  is
• 36:09
  giving
• 36:10
  them
• 36:10
  the
• 36:10
  right
• 36:10
  insights.
• 36:11
  First
• 36:11
  of
• 36:11
  all,
• 36:12
  it
• 36:12
  starts
• 36:12
  with
• 36:12
  like
• 36:13
  first
• 36:13
  of
• 36:13
  all
• 36:13
  realizing
• 36:14
  what
• 36:14
  a
• 36:14
  good
• 36:14
  insight
• 36:14
  is,
• 36:15
  right?
• 36:15
  You
• 36:15
  don't
• 36:16
  look
• 36:16
  again
• 36:16
  go,
• 36:17
  don't
• 36:17
  go
• 36:17
  for
• 36:17
  like
• 36:17
  output
• 36:18
  based
• 36:18
  metrics
• 36:19
  and
• 36:19
  there
• 36:19
  are
• 36:19
  hundreds
• 36:20
  of
• 36:20
  tools
• 36:20
  out
• 36:20
  there
• 36:20
  by
• 36:20
  the
• 36:21
  way
• 36:21
  which
• 36:21
  are
• 36:21
  selling
• 36:22
  that
• 36:22
  and
• 36:22
  again
• 36:23
  they
• 36:23
  have
• 36:23
  a
• 36:23
  value.
• 36:24
  But
• 36:24
  then
• 36:25
  there's
• 36:25
  plenty
• 36:25
  of
• 36:25
  like
• 36:26
  attraction
• 36:26
  or
• 36:27
  misunderstanding
• 36:28
  like
• 36:29
  that
• 36:29
  you
• 36:29
  can
• 36:29
  cultivate.
• 36:30
  So
• 36:30
  don't
• 36:30
  go
• 36:31
  for
• 36:31
  the
• 36:31
  output
• 36:31
  based
• 36:32
  metric
• 36:32
  but
• 36:32
  go
• 36:33
  for
• 36:33
  like
• 36:33
  really
• 36:34
  realizing
• 36:34
  what
• 36:34
  the
• 36:34
  outcome
• 36:35
  has
• 36:35
  been,
• 36:35
  what
• 36:35
  is
• 36:35
  the
• 36:36
  real
• 36:36
  impact
• 36:36
  of
• 36:36
  that
• 36:36
  person
• 36:37
  or
• 36:37
  right,
• 36:37
  Think
• 36:38
  about
• 36:38
  not
• 36:38
  just
• 36:39
  like
• 36:39
  their
• 36:40
  delivery
• 36:41
  but
• 36:41
  also
• 36:42
  about
• 36:42
  the
• 36:42
  overall
• 36:43
  impact
• 36:43
  in
• 36:43
  the
• 36:43
  business.
• 36:44
  Like
• 36:44
  whether
• 36:44
  it
• 36:44
  is
• 36:44
  a
• 36:45
  value,
• 36:45
  what
• 36:46
  the
• 36:46
  company
• 36:46
  values
• 36:47
  are,
• 36:47
  how
• 36:47
  they
• 36:47
  relate
• 36:47
  to
• 36:47
  the
• 36:48
  company
• 36:48
  value,
• 36:48
  how
• 36:48
  to
• 36:48
  demonstrate
• 36:49
  those
• 36:49
  company
• 36:49
  values.
• 36:50
  Like
• 36:50
  are
• 36:50
  they
• 36:50
  being
• 36:50
  the
• 36:51
  team
• 36:51
  player
• 36:51
  or
• 36:51
  not?
• 36:51
  Right?
• 36:52
  Are
• 36:52
  they
• 36:52
  bringing
• 36:53
  everyone
• 36:53
  together?
• 36:54
  And
• 36:54
  these
• 36:54
  are
• 36:55
  like
• 36:55
  the
• 36:55
  personality
• 36:56
  trade
• 36:56
  offs
• 36:56
  as
• 36:56
  well.
• 36:56
  That's
• 36:57
  something
• 36:57
  somebody
• 36:58
  can
• 36:58
  develop,
• 36:58
  cannot
• 36:59
  develop.
• 36:59
  But
• 37:00
  to
• 37:00
  your
• 37:00
  question,
• 37:01
  my
• 37:01
  biggest
• 37:02
  sort
• 37:02
  of
• 37:02
  thing
• 37:02
  is
• 37:03
  look,
• 37:03
  technology
• 37:04
  can
• 37:04
  definitely
• 37:05
  help
• 37:05
  a
• 37:05
  bad
• 37:06
  manager
• 37:07
  be
• 37:07
  more
• 37:07
  aware
• 37:08
  of
• 37:08
  what,
• 37:09
  where
• 37:09
  the
• 37:10
  lacks
• 37:10
  are,
• 37:10
  how
• 37:11
  you
• 37:11
  can
• 37:11
  be
• 37:11
  better.
• 37:11
  It
• 37:12
  can
• 37:12
  bring
• 37:12
  the
• 37:12
  right
• 37:13
  sort
• 37:13
  of
• 37:13
  metrics
• 37:14
  and
• 37:14
  in
• 37:14
  the
• 37:15
  right
• 37:15
  way
• 37:16
  for
• 37:16
  the
• 37:16
  people.
• 37:17
  Like
• 37:17
  a
• 37:17
  lot
• 37:17
  of
• 37:17
  these
• 37:17
  things
• 37:17
  I'm
• 37:18
  talking
• 37:18
  about,
• 37:19
  they
• 37:19
  were
• 37:19
  not
• 37:19
  even
• 37:19
  there
• 37:20
  in
• 37:20
  the
• 37:20
  first
• 37:21
  place,
• 37:21
  right?
• 37:21
  Like
• 37:21
  you
• 37:22
  didn't
• 37:22
  even
• 37:22
  know
• 37:22
  these
• 37:22
  things
• 37:23
  exist.
• 37:23
  Metrics
• 37:24
  which
• 37:24
  are
• 37:24
  based
• 37:24
  on
• 37:24
  soft
• 37:25
  skills,
• 37:25
  based
• 37:25
  on
• 37:26
  like
• 37:26
  people's
• 37:26
  behavior
• 37:27
  are
• 37:27
  almost
• 37:28
  non
• 37:28
  existent
• 37:29
  right
• 37:29
  out
• 37:29
  there.
• 37:29
  Yeah,
• 37:30
  they
• 37:30
  are.
• 37:31
  You're
• 37:31
  right.
• 37:31
  So
• 37:32
  first
• 37:32
  battle
• 37:33
  is
• 37:33
  like
• 37:33
  let's
• 37:34
  say
• 37:34
  if
• 37:34
  you,
• 37:34
  you
• 37:35
  are
• 37:35
  managing
• 37:35
  me,
• 37:36
  if
• 37:36
  you
• 37:36
  get
• 37:36
  to
• 37:36
  see
• 37:36
  what
• 37:37
  my
• 37:37
  strengths
• 37:37
  are,
• 37:37
  not
• 37:38
  just
• 37:38
  what
• 37:38
  my
• 37:38
  growth
• 37:39
  areas
• 37:39
  are,
• 37:39
  how
• 37:39
  I
• 37:39
  have
• 37:40
  been
• 37:40
  demonstrating
• 37:41
  company
• 37:41
  values,
• 37:42
  how
• 37:43
  like
• 37:43
  perception
• 37:44
  for
• 37:44
  me
• 37:44
  or
• 37:45
  the
• 37:45
  vibe
• 37:45
  for
• 37:46
  me
• 37:46
  has
• 37:46
  been
• 37:46
  changing
• 37:47
  while
• 37:47
  I'm
• 37:48
  working
• 37:48
  with
• 37:48
  my
• 37:48
  team
• 37:48
  members,
• 37:49
  right?
• 37:49
  These
• 37:50
  are
• 37:50
  things
• 37:50
  which
• 37:50
  are
• 37:50
  really
• 37:51
  hard
• 37:51
  to
• 37:51
  measure
• 37:52
  if
• 37:52
  you
• 37:52
  just
• 37:52
  look
• 37:53
  at
• 37:53
  people's
• 37:53
  commits
• 37:53
  and
• 37:54
  these
• 37:54
  are
• 37:54
  the
• 37:54
  things
• 37:54
  that
• 37:54
  really,
• 37:55
  really
• 37:55
  matter.
• 37:55
  If
• 37:56
  you
• 37:56
  think
• 37:56
  about
• 37:56
  like
• 37:56
  the
• 37:56
  overall
• 37:57
  personality
• 37:57
  of
• 37:57
  the
• 37:57
  person
• 37:58
  and
• 37:58
  then
• 37:58
  like
• 37:59
  what
• 37:59
  you
• 37:59
  can
• 37:59
  do
• 38:00
  with
• 38:00
  that
• 38:00
  sort
• 38:00
  of
• 38:00
  metrics
• 38:01
  and
• 38:01
  data
• 38:01
  is
• 38:02
  you
• 38:02
  can
• 38:02
  then
• 38:02
  think
• 38:03
  about
• 38:03
  like
• 38:03
  okay,
• 38:04
  I
• 38:04
  know
• 38:04
  Sachin
• 38:05
  is
• 38:05
  really
• 38:05
  good
• 38:05
  at
• 38:06
  doing
• 38:06
  these
• 38:06
  kind
• 38:07
  of
• 38:07
  things,
• 38:07
  these
• 38:07
  are
• 38:07
  her
• 38:07
  strengths.
• 38:08
  Then
• 38:09
  you
• 38:09
  know
• 38:09
  the
• 38:10
  next
• 38:10
  time
• 38:10
  when
• 38:10
  I'm
• 38:10
  thinking
• 38:11
  about
• 38:11
  some
• 38:11
  sort
• 38:11
  of
• 38:11
  problem
• 38:12
  solving,
• 38:12
  I
• 38:13
  know
• 38:13
  who's
• 38:13
  the
• 38:13
  best
• 38:14
  person
• 38:14
  for
• 38:14
  this
• 38:14
  job.
• 38:14
  Like
• 38:15
  giving
• 38:15
  out
• 38:15
  these
• 38:15
  metrics
• 38:16
  which
• 38:16
  are
• 38:17
  otherwise
• 38:17
  very
• 38:17
  hard
• 38:18
  to
• 38:18
  sort
• 38:18
  of
• 38:18
  see
• 38:19
  is
• 38:19
  definitely,
• 38:19
  definitely
• 38:19
  helping
• 38:20
  the
• 38:20
  other
• 38:20
  thing
• 38:20
  which
• 38:21
  sort
• 38:21
  of
• 38:21
  again
• 38:21
  like
• 38:22
  this
• 38:22
  might
• 38:22
  sound
• 38:22
  like
• 38:23
  a
• 38:23
  little
• 38:23
  bit
• 38:23
  of
• 38:23
  A
• 38:24
  clarity
• 38:24
  loop.
• 38:24
  Advertisement
• 38:25
  But
• 38:25
  I
• 38:25
  think
• 38:26
  we
• 38:26
  built
• 38:26
  out
• 38:26
  some
• 38:26
  really
• 38:27
  sophisticated
• 38:27
  AI
• 38:28
  in
• 38:28
  the
• 38:29
  product.
• 38:29
  So
• 38:30
  what
• 38:30
  we
• 38:30
  have
• 38:30
  is
• 38:31
  like
• 38:31
  this
• 38:31
  role
• 38:31
  modeling
• 38:32
  AI.
• 38:32
  Like
• 38:32
  I
• 38:33
  struggled
• 38:33
  to
• 38:33
  have
• 38:34
  hard
• 38:34
  conversations
• 38:35
  in
• 38:35
  the
• 38:35
  past
• 38:36
  and
• 38:36
  I'm
• 38:37
  sure
• 38:37
  a
• 38:37
  lot
• 38:37
  of
• 38:37
  people
• 38:37
  do,
• 38:38
  right?
• 38:38
  Even
• 38:38
  if
• 38:39
  you're
• 38:39
  a
• 38:39
  good
• 38:39
  manager,
• 38:39
  bad
• 38:39
  manager.
• 38:40
  But
• 38:40
  as
• 38:40
  a
• 38:41
  manager
• 38:41
  or
• 38:41
  as
• 38:41
  a
• 38:41
  coach,
• 38:42
  this
• 38:42
  is
• 38:42
  one
• 38:42
  of
• 38:43
  your
• 38:43
  biggest
• 38:43
  responsibility
• 38:44
  to
• 38:44
  have
• 38:44
  hard
• 38:44
  conversations.
• 38:45
  So
• 38:45
  what
• 38:46
  the
• 38:46
  platform
• 38:46
  does
• 38:46
  is
• 38:47
  it
• 38:47
  lets
• 38:48
  you
• 38:48
  role
• 38:48
  play
• 38:49
  conversations
• 38:50
  so
• 38:50
  platform
• 38:51
  can't
• 38:51
  pretend
• 38:51
  to
• 38:52
  be
• 38:52
  some
• 38:52
  other
• 38:52
  person.
• 38:53
  And
• 38:54
  when
• 38:54
  I
• 38:54
  say
• 38:54
  pretend,
• 38:55
  I
• 38:55
  genuinely
• 38:56
  mean
• 38:56
  that
• 38:56
  person's
• 38:57
  traits
• 38:57
  because
• 38:58
  the
• 38:58
  platform
• 38:58
  knows
• 38:58
  about
• 38:58
  a
• 38:59
  lot
• 38:59
  of
• 38:59
  that
• 38:59
  person's
• 38:59
  traits.
• 39:00
  And
• 39:00
  you
• 39:00
  can
• 39:00
  have
• 39:01
  that
• 39:01
  safe
• 39:01
  environment
• 39:01
  conversation,
• 39:02
  private
• 39:02
  conversations.
• 39:03
  And
• 39:04
  then
• 39:04
  once
• 39:04
  you
• 39:04
  are
• 39:04
  happy,
• 39:04
  once
• 39:05
  you've
• 39:05
  explored,
• 39:05
  like
• 39:06
  bounce
• 39:06
  around
• 39:06
  all
• 39:07
  the
• 39:07
  ideas
• 39:07
  in
• 39:07
  a
• 39:07
  safe
• 39:08
  environment,
• 39:09
  then
• 39:09
  you
• 39:09
  can
• 39:09
  go
• 39:09
  and
• 39:09
  talk
• 39:10
  to
• 39:10
  that
• 39:10
  person.
• 39:10
  That's
• 39:11
  really
• 39:11
  cool.
• 39:12
  And
• 39:12
  I
• 39:12
  think
• 39:13
  that's
• 39:13
  another
• 39:14
  one
• 39:14
  of
• 39:14
  the
• 39:14
  undersold
• 39:15
  features
• 39:16
  on
• 39:16
  what
• 39:17
  you're
• 39:17
  doing.
• 39:17
  Because
• 39:18
  one
• 39:18
  would
• 39:18
  think
• 39:18
  the
• 39:19
  idea
• 39:19
  of
• 39:19
  soft
• 39:20
  skills
• 39:20
  and
• 39:21
  personal
• 39:22
  skills
• 39:22
  and
• 39:22
  relationships
• 39:23
  are
• 39:24
  personality
• 39:24
  traits,
• 39:25
  right.
• 39:25
  Would
• 39:26
  be
• 39:26
  very
• 39:26
  difficult
• 39:27
  to
• 39:28
  turn
• 39:28
  into
• 39:28
  some
• 39:29
  form
• 39:29
  of,
• 39:29
  I
• 39:29
  guess
• 39:30
  management
• 39:31
  coach
• 39:31
  or
• 39:32
  conflict
• 39:33
  coach
• 39:33
  or
• 39:34
  whatever
• 39:34
  we
• 39:34
  want
• 39:35
  to
• 39:35
  call
• 39:35
  it,
• 39:35
  right?
• 39:35
  I
• 39:36
  think
• 39:36
  that's
• 39:36
  really
• 39:36
  cool
• 39:37
  and
• 39:37
  actually
• 39:38
  totally
• 39:38
  should
• 39:39
  make
• 39:39
  more
• 39:39
  of
• 39:39
  that
• 39:39
  because
• 39:40
  everybody
• 39:40
  hates
• 39:41
  the
• 39:41
  difficult
• 39:41
  conversations,
• 39:42
  don't
• 39:42
  they?
• 39:42
  So
• 39:43
  interestingly
• 39:43
  they
• 39:44
  sort
• 39:44
  of,
• 39:45
  and
• 39:45
  we
• 39:45
  touched
• 39:45
  on
• 39:45
  this
• 39:46
  a
• 39:46
  little
• 39:46
  bit
• 39:46
  earlier
• 39:47
  in
• 39:47
  terms
• 39:47
  of
• 39:47
  like,
• 39:48
  I
• 39:48
  feel
• 39:48
  like
• 39:48
  you're
• 39:48
  contrarian
• 39:49
  in
• 39:49
  the
• 39:50
  way
• 39:50
  that
• 39:50
  you've
• 39:50
  done
• 39:50
  it
• 39:51
  with
• 39:51
  your
• 39:51
  enterprise
• 39:52
  software
• 39:52
  and
• 39:53
  actually
• 39:53
  with
• 39:53
  building
• 39:53
  the
• 39:54
  business,
• 39:54
  I
• 39:54
  just
• 39:54
  wanted
• 39:55
  to
• 39:55
  dive
• 39:55
  in
• 39:55
  a
• 39:55
  little
• 39:55
  bit
• 39:55
  more
• 39:55
  because
• 39:56
  I
• 39:56
  did
• 39:56
  touch
• 39:56
  on
• 39:56
  it
• 39:56
  a
• 39:57
  little
• 39:57
  bit
• 39:57
  early.
• 39:57
  We
• 39:57
  were
• 39:58
  talking
• 39:58
  about
• 39:58
  the
• 39:58
  idea
• 39:58
  that
• 39:59
  sort
• 39:59
  of
• 39:59
  Y
• 39:59
  Combinator.
• 40:00
  All
• 40:00
  of
• 40:01
  the
• 40:01
  incubators
• 40:02
  talk
• 40:02
  about
• 40:03
  building
• 40:03
  the
• 40:03
  MVP,
• 40:04
  launching
• 40:05
  in
• 40:05
  weeks
• 40:05
  and
• 40:05
  getting,
• 40:06
  you
• 40:06
  know,
• 40:06
  10
• 40:07
  users,
• 40:07
  whatever.
• 40:07
  Right
• 40:08
  now
• 40:08
  you
• 40:08
  obviously
• 40:09
  did
• 40:09
  the
• 40:09
  exact
• 40:09
  opposite.
• 40:10
  And
• 40:10
  you
• 40:10
  spent
• 40:11
  the
• 40:11
  time,
• 40:11
  all
• 40:11
  like
• 40:11
  10
• 40:11
  months
• 40:12
  building
• 40:13
  a
• 40:13
  massive
• 40:13
  platform
• 40:14
  for
• 40:14
  a
• 40:15
  single
• 40:15
  client.
• 40:15
  I
• 40:16
  wonder
• 40:17
  for
• 40:18
  people
• 40:18
  listening
• 40:19
  who
• 40:19
  are
• 40:19
  doing
• 40:19
  enterprise
• 40:20
  software
• 40:21
  and
• 40:21
  this
• 40:21
  is
• 40:21
  incredibly
• 40:22
  useful.
• 40:23
  If
• 40:23
  you
• 40:23
  could
• 40:24
  go
• 40:24
  back
• 40:24
  in
• 40:24
  time
• 40:26
  and,
• 40:26
  and
• 40:26
  be
• 40:27
  honest,
• 40:27
  this
• 40:27
  is
• 40:27
  the
• 40:28
  no
• 40:28
  BS
• 40:28
  podcast
• 40:29
  for
• 40:29
  that
• 40:30
  sort
• 40:30
  of
• 40:30
  stuff,
• 40:30
  what
• 40:30
  would
• 40:30
  you
• 40:31
  do
• 40:31
  differently?
• 40:31
  If
• 40:32
  you
• 40:32
  could
• 40:32
  go
• 40:32
  back
• 40:33
  and
• 40:33
  do.
• 40:33
  Something
• 40:33
  differently,
• 40:34
  some
• 40:34
  of
• 40:34
  the
• 40:34
  classic
• 40:35
  things
• 40:35
  which
• 40:35
  like
• 40:36
  other
• 40:36
  people
• 40:36
  advise
• 40:37
  and
• 40:37
  I
• 40:37
  didn't
• 40:37
  follow
• 40:38
  one
• 40:38
  of
• 40:38
  those
• 40:38
  things
• 40:39
  I
• 40:39
  will
• 40:39
  give
• 40:39
  you,
• 40:39
  like
• 40:40
  I
• 40:40
  spent
• 40:40
  a
• 40:40
  lot
• 40:40
  of
• 40:41
  time
• 40:41
  with
• 40:41
  customer
• 40:42
  which
• 40:42
  unfortunately
• 40:43
  didn't
• 40:44
  turn
• 40:44
  out
• 40:45
  the
• 40:45
  way
• 40:45
  it
• 40:45
  should
• 40:45
  have
• 40:46
  been.
• 40:46
  Like
• 40:46
  literally
• 40:47
  spent
• 40:48
  three,
• 40:48
  three
• 40:48
  months
• 40:49
  working
• 40:49
  with
• 40:49
  them,
• 40:50
  helping
• 40:50
  them,
• 40:50
  supporting
• 40:51
  them.
• 40:51
  There
• 40:51
  was
• 40:51
  no
• 40:51
  commitment,
• 40:52
  obviously,
• 40:52
  because
• 40:52
  they
• 40:52
  were
• 40:53
  early
• 40:53
  design
• 40:53
  partners.
• 40:54
  But
• 40:54
  then
• 40:54
  the
• 40:54
  product
• 40:55
  was
• 40:55
  in
• 40:55
  A
• 40:55
  mature
• 40:55
  shape.
• 40:56
  I
• 40:56
  worked
• 40:57
  with
• 40:57
  them
• 40:58
  and
• 40:58
  I
• 40:58
  think
• 40:58
  after
• 40:58
  three
• 40:59
  more,
• 40:59
  three
• 40:59
  to
• 41:00
  four
• 41:00
  months,
• 41:00
  they
• 41:01
  decided
• 41:01
  to
• 41:01
  not
• 41:01
  engage
• 41:02
  the
• 41:02
  right
• 41:02
  way.
• 41:03
  Right.
• 41:04
  I
• 41:04
  mean
• 41:04
  they
• 41:04
  sent
• 41:04
  me
• 41:05
  a
• 41:05
  message
• 41:05
  like
• 41:05
  two
• 41:05
  days
• 41:05
  ago
• 41:06
  or
• 41:06
  something.
• 41:06
  But
• 41:07
  basically
• 41:08
  classic
• 41:09
  one
• 41:09
  of
• 41:09
  those
• 41:09
  bad
• 41:10
  customers
• 41:10
  sort
• 41:10
  of
• 41:11
  interaction
• 41:11
  I
• 41:11
  had.
• 41:11
  And
• 41:12
  the
• 41:12
  reason
• 41:12
  that
• 41:13
  could
• 41:13
  happen
• 41:14
  is
• 41:14
  because
• 41:15
  I
• 41:15
  was
• 41:15
  too
• 41:16
  scared.
• 41:16
  Talk
• 41:17
  about
• 41:17
  pricing.
• 41:18
  I
• 41:18
  was
• 41:18
  too
• 41:18
  scared
• 41:19
  to
• 41:19
  bring
• 41:19
  up
• 41:19
  that.
• 41:20
  I
• 41:21
  will
• 41:21
  talk
• 41:21
  to
• 41:21
  you
• 41:22
  once
• 41:22
  I
• 41:23
  have
• 41:23
  some
• 41:23
  sort
• 41:23
  of
• 41:24
  contract
• 41:24
  in
• 41:24
  place
• 41:24
  or
• 41:25
  something
• 41:26
  in
• 41:26
  writing
• 41:26
  or
• 41:26
  something
• 41:27
  like
• 41:27
  something.
• 41:27
  You
• 41:28
  wanted
• 41:28
  it
• 41:28
  to
• 41:28
  be
• 41:28
  very
• 41:29
  formal,
• 41:29
  did
• 41:29
  you?
• 41:30
  Is
• 41:30
  that.
• 41:30
  Yeah,
• 41:31
  yeah,
• 41:31
  exactly.
• 41:31
  Part
• 41:32
  of
• 41:32
  me
• 41:32
  felt
• 41:32
  like
• 41:33
  if
• 41:33
  I
• 41:33
  could
• 41:33
  do
• 41:34
  something
• 41:34
  differently
• 41:34
  going
• 41:35
  forward.
• 41:35
  Now
• 41:35
  I
• 41:35
  know
• 41:36
  that,
• 41:36
  you
• 41:37
  know,
• 41:37
  especially
• 41:37
  in
• 41:37
  the
• 41:37
  B2B
• 41:38
  space,
• 41:39
  you'd
• 41:40
  be
• 41:40
  surprised
• 41:40
  how
• 41:41
  many
• 41:41
  sort
• 41:41
  of
• 41:42
  businesses
• 41:43
  are
• 41:43
  there
• 41:43
  which
• 41:44
  on
• 41:44
  paper
• 41:44
  look
• 41:45
  really
• 41:45
  good
• 41:46
  but
• 41:46
  they
• 41:46
  have
• 41:46
  a
• 41:46
  really
• 41:46
  bad
• 41:47
  culture
• 41:47
  or
• 41:48
  they
• 41:48
  really
• 41:48
  are
• 41:48
  like
• 41:49
  almost
• 41:49
  like
• 41:50
  running
• 41:50
  as
• 41:50
  like
• 41:50
  a
• 41:50
  single
• 41:51
  person
• 41:51
  company
• 41:52
  who
• 41:52
  are
• 41:53
  making
• 41:53
  every
• 41:53
  decisions.
• 41:54
  Very
• 41:55
  sort
• 41:55
  of
• 41:56
  just
• 41:56
  one
• 41:56
  person
• 41:56
  deciding
• 41:56
  everybody's
• 41:57
  job
• 41:57
  kind
• 41:57
  of
• 41:57
  thing.
• 41:58
  Right.
• 41:58
  Basically
• 41:58
  don't
• 41:59
  just
• 41:59
  believe
• 41:59
  the
• 42:00
  people
• 42:00
  you
• 42:00
  talk
• 42:00
  to.
• 42:01
  Right.
• 42:01
  You
• 42:01
  have
• 42:01
  to
• 42:02
  sort
• 42:03
  of
• 42:03
  treat
• 42:03
  them
• 42:03
  as
• 42:03
  like
• 42:04
  they
• 42:04
  are
• 42:04
  a
• 42:04
  business.
• 42:04
  And
• 42:05
  businesses
• 42:06
  run
• 42:06
  like
• 42:07
  you
• 42:07
  need
• 42:07
  to
• 42:07
  get
• 42:07
  their
• 42:08
  commitment
• 42:08
  early
• 42:08
  before
• 42:09
  you
• 42:09
  spend
• 42:09
  your
• 42:09
  too
• 42:10
  much
• 42:10
  time
• 42:10
  on
• 42:10
  that.
• 42:10
  And
• 42:10
  that
• 42:11
  commitment
• 42:11
  could
• 42:11
  just
• 42:11
  be,
• 42:12
  you
• 42:12
  know,
• 42:12
  get
• 42:13
  them
• 42:13
  to
• 42:13
  sign
• 42:13
  a
• 42:13
  contract,
• 42:14
  sign
• 42:14
  some
• 42:15
  sort
• 42:15
  of
• 42:15
  trial
• 42:15
  contract
• 42:16
  or
• 42:16
  get
• 42:16
  them
• 42:16
  to
• 42:17
  pay
• 42:17
  something,
• 42:17
  you
• 42:17
  know,
• 42:17
  don't
• 42:18
  get
• 42:18
  them
• 42:18
  out
• 42:19
  free
• 42:19
  or
• 42:19
  don't,
• 42:20
  you
• 42:20
  know,
• 42:20
  don't
• 42:20
  be
• 42:20
  too
• 42:20
  generous.
• 42:21
  Yeah.
• 42:21
  For
• 42:22
  no
• 42:22
  reason.
• 42:22
  So
• 42:23
  that's
• 42:23
  been
• 42:23
  the
• 42:23
  hardest
• 42:23
  part
• 42:24
  for
• 42:24
  me
• 42:24
  to
• 42:24
  learn,
• 42:25
  honestly,
• 42:25
  like
• 42:25
  not
• 42:26
  being
• 42:26
  too
• 42:26
  generous.
• 42:27
  I
• 42:27
  suppose,
• 42:27
  you
• 42:27
  know,
• 42:28
  you're
• 42:28
  also
• 42:28
  saying
• 42:29
  the
• 42:29
  idea
• 42:29
  that
• 42:30
  especially
• 42:31
  when
• 42:31
  you've
• 42:31
  got
• 42:31
  an
• 42:32
  idea
• 42:32
  and
• 42:32
  you're
• 42:33
  excited
• 42:33
  about
• 42:33
  that
• 42:34
  idea
• 42:34
  and
• 42:35
  you
• 42:35
  find
• 42:36
  someone
• 42:36
  else
• 42:36
  who's
• 42:37
  excited
• 42:37
  about
• 42:37
  your
• 42:38
  idea
• 42:39
  and
• 42:39
  then
• 42:39
  you
• 42:39
  think,
• 42:40
  wow,
• 42:40
  I've
• 42:40
  got
• 42:41
  a
• 42:41
  customer
• 42:41
  here.
• 42:41
  They
• 42:42
  talk
• 42:42
  to
• 42:42
  you,
• 42:42
  you're
• 42:43
  very
• 42:43
  open,
• 42:44
  you
• 42:44
  share
• 42:44
  all
• 42:44
  the
• 42:45
  information.
• 42:45
  I've
• 42:45
  heard
• 42:46
  this
• 42:46
  many
• 42:46
  times
• 42:46
  or
• 42:46
  at
• 42:47
  a
• 42:47
  version
• 42:47
  of
• 42:47
  this
• 42:48
  where
• 42:48
  they
• 42:48
  then
• 42:49
  work
• 42:49
  for
• 42:49
  X
• 42:50
  number
• 42:50
  of
• 42:50
  months
• 42:50
  with
• 42:50
  that
• 42:51
  person
• 42:51
  and
• 42:51
  they're
• 42:51
  like,
• 42:52
  they'll
• 42:52
  definitely
• 42:52
  sign.
• 42:53
  We're
• 42:53
  good.
• 42:54
  This
• 42:54
  is
• 42:54
  all
• 42:54
  going
• 42:55
  forward.
• 42:55
  They
• 42:55
  keep
• 42:56
  saying
• 42:56
  yes,
• 42:56
  yes,
• 42:57
  yes
• 42:57
  and
• 42:57
  then
• 42:57
  it
• 42:57
  doesn't
• 42:58
  work
• 42:58
  out.
• 42:58
  So
• 42:59
  that
• 42:59
  is
• 42:59
  great
• 43:00
  advice.
• 43:00
  Like
• 43:01
  test
• 43:01
  it
• 43:02
  with
• 43:02
  real
• 43:02
  money.
• 43:03
  As
• 43:03
  in
• 43:03
  you're
• 43:04
  just
• 43:04
  getting
• 43:04
  like
• 43:04
  asked
• 43:05
  for
• 43:05
  something
• 43:05
  because
• 43:06
  you
• 43:06
  are
• 43:06
  investing
• 43:06
  your
• 43:07
  time.
• 43:07
  You
• 43:08
  know,
• 43:08
  you
• 43:08
  are.
• 43:08
  At
• 43:09
  the
• 43:09
  very
• 43:09
  least
• 43:09
  it's
• 43:10
  such
• 43:10
  a.
• 43:10
  Hard
• 43:10
  thing
• 43:11
  to
• 43:12
  do.
• 43:12
  Again,
• 43:12
  like
• 43:13
  if
• 43:13
  I
• 43:13
  was
• 43:14
  creating
• 43:14
  a
• 43:14
  video
• 43:14
  about
• 43:15
  like
• 43:15
  a
• 43:15
  YC
• 43:16
  advice
• 43:16
  style
• 43:16
  video,
• 43:16
  I'd
• 43:17
  probably
• 43:17
  say
• 43:17
  it
• 43:17
  with
• 43:17
  a
• 43:17
  lot
• 43:17
  of
• 43:17
  content
• 43:18
  but
• 43:18
  I
• 43:18
  know
• 43:19
  how
• 43:19
  Hard
• 43:19
  it
• 43:19
  is
• 43:20
  because
• 43:20
  you
• 43:21
  are
• 43:21
  desperate.
• 43:22
  You
• 43:22
  need
• 43:22
  validation.
• 43:23
  You're
• 43:23
  getting
• 43:24
  started,
• 43:24
  you're
• 43:25
  getting
• 43:25
  started
• 43:25
  and
• 43:26
  you're
• 43:26
  like,
• 43:27
  fine,
• 43:27
  like
• 43:27
  it's
• 43:28
  fine.
• 43:28
  But
• 43:28
  I
• 43:28
  think
• 43:28
  at
• 43:29
  the
• 43:29
  end
• 43:29
  of
• 43:29
  the
• 43:29
  day
• 43:30
  it
• 43:30
  doesn't
• 43:30
  work
• 43:31
  in
• 43:31
  your
• 43:31
  favor.
• 43:31
  It
• 43:32
  would
• 43:32
  have
• 43:32
  been
• 43:32
  a
• 43:32
  good
• 43:32
  advice
• 43:33
  if
• 43:33
  it
• 43:33
  was
• 43:33
  sort
• 43:33
  of
• 43:33
  working.
• 43:34
  The
• 43:34
  thing
• 43:35
  is
• 43:35
  like
• 43:35
  the
• 43:35
  way
• 43:36
  humans
• 43:36
  work
• 43:37
  are,
• 43:38
  you
• 43:38
  know,
• 43:38
  if
• 43:38
  you
• 43:38
  don't
• 43:39
  commit
• 43:39
  somebody
• 43:39
  to
• 43:39
  do
• 43:40
  something,
• 43:40
  they
• 43:40
  wouldn't
• 43:41
  necessarily
• 43:41
  do
• 43:41
  it.
• 43:42
  If
• 43:42
  it's
• 43:42
  not
• 43:42
  very
• 43:42
  important
• 43:42
  for
• 43:43
  them,
• 43:43
  right.
• 43:44
  Unless
• 43:44
  it's
• 43:44
  a
• 43:44
  hair
• 43:45
  on
• 43:45
  fire
• 43:45
  for
• 43:45
  them,
• 43:46
  then
• 43:46
  it's
• 43:46
  fine.
• 43:47
  The
• 43:47
  way
• 43:47
  I
• 43:47
  have
• 43:47
  seen
• 43:48
  people
• 43:48
  working
• 43:48
  is
• 43:49
  what's
• 43:50
  in
• 43:50
  it
• 43:50
  for
• 43:50
  me
• 43:50
  if
• 43:50
  I
• 43:50
  do
• 43:51
  this,
• 43:51
  what
• 43:51
  do
• 43:51
  I
• 43:51
  get
• 43:52
  in
• 43:52
  return,
• 43:52
  right?
• 43:53
  Or
• 43:54
  oh,
• 43:54
  I'm
• 43:54
  now
• 43:54
  committed
• 43:55
  so
• 43:55
  I
• 43:55
  have
• 43:56
  to
• 43:56
  continue
• 43:56
  with
• 43:56
  it.
• 43:57
  And
• 43:57
  then,
• 43:58
  then
• 43:58
  they
• 43:58
  realize,
• 43:58
  oh
• 43:59
  my
• 43:59
  God,
• 43:59
  that
• 43:59
  was
• 43:59
  such
• 44:00
  a
• 44:00
  great
• 44:00
  thing
• 44:01
  I
• 44:01
  did.
• 44:01
  In
• 44:01
  my
• 44:02
  case,
• 44:02
  honestly,
• 44:03
  like
• 44:03
  I
• 44:03
  feel
• 44:03
  that
• 44:04
  they
• 44:04
  got
• 44:04
  the
• 44:04
  value,
• 44:04
  they
• 44:05
  understood
• 44:05
  the
• 44:05
  value,
• 44:06
  but
• 44:06
  they
• 44:07
  didn't
• 44:07
  commit
• 44:08
  themselves
• 44:08
  enough
• 44:09
  to
• 44:09
  fully
• 44:09
  realize
• 44:10
  the
• 44:10
  value.
• 44:11
  Right.
• 44:12
  And
• 44:12
  I
• 44:12
  think
• 44:12
  that
• 44:12
  is
• 44:12
  very
• 44:12
  common.
• 44:13
  So
• 44:13
  you
• 44:14
  need
• 44:14
  that
• 44:14
  initial
• 44:14
  commitment,
• 44:15
  either
• 44:15
  money,
• 44:16
  either
• 44:16
  contract
• 44:17
  or
• 44:17
  whatever.
• 44:18
  In
• 44:18
  the
• 44:18
  beginning,
• 44:18
  as
• 44:19
  a
• 44:19
  completely
• 44:19
  bootstrapped
• 44:20
  company,
• 44:21
  how
• 44:21
  did
• 44:21
  you
• 44:21
  get,
• 44:22
  you
• 44:23
  know,
• 44:23
  a
• 44:24
  company
• 44:24
  with
• 44:25
  800
• 44:26
  employees
• 44:27
  to
• 44:28
  say
• 44:28
  yes
• 44:28
  to
• 44:28
  you?
• 44:29
  And
• 44:29
  it's
• 44:29
  not
• 44:29
  just
• 44:29
  the
• 44:30
  10
• 44:30
  months
• 44:30
  you
• 44:30
  committed,
• 44:31
  right.
• 44:31
  It's,
• 44:31
  it's
• 44:32
  about
• 44:32
  building
• 44:32
  trust.
• 44:33
  That
• 44:33
  experience
• 44:34
  and
• 44:34
  that
• 44:35
  level
• 44:35
  of
• 44:35
  deep
• 44:35
  relationship
• 44:36
  building,
• 44:37
  there
• 44:37
  surely
• 44:38
  is
• 44:38
  something
• 44:38
  that
• 44:38
  you
• 44:38
  could
• 44:39
  share
• 44:39
  to
• 44:39
  every
• 44:39
  founder
• 44:40
  listening
• 44:41
  about
• 44:41
  how
• 44:41
  you,
• 44:42
  how
• 44:42
  you
• 44:42
  built
• 44:42
  such
• 44:43
  a
• 44:43
  good
• 44:43
  relationship.
• 44:44
  One
• 44:44
  of
• 44:44
  the
• 44:44
  biggest
• 44:44
  reason
• 44:45
  was
• 44:45
  because
• 44:46
  I
• 44:46
  got
• 44:47
  to
• 44:47
  talk
• 44:47
  to
• 44:48
  them
• 44:48
  quite
• 44:48
  early
• 44:49
  on
• 44:49
  that
• 44:49
  stage,
• 44:50
  right.
• 44:50
  So
• 44:50
  they,
• 44:51
  they
• 44:51
  felt
• 44:52
  like
• 44:53
  this
• 44:53
  is
• 44:53
  sort
• 44:53
  of
• 44:54
  building
• 44:54
  out
• 44:54
  for
• 44:54
  their
• 44:55
  needs.
• 44:55
  And
• 44:55
  that's
• 44:56
  been
• 44:56
  the
• 44:56
  case.
• 44:56
  So
• 44:57
  that's,
• 44:57
  that's
• 44:58
  been
• 44:58
  one
• 44:58
  of
• 44:58
  the
• 44:58
  biggest
• 44:58
  reasons,
• 44:59
  I
• 44:59
  would
• 44:59
  say
• 44:59
  like
• 44:59
  one
• 45:00
  of
• 45:00
  those
• 45:00
  early
• 45:00
  sort
• 45:01
  of
• 45:01
  champions
• 45:01
  of
• 45:02
  your
• 45:02
  product
• 45:02
  was
• 45:03
  like,
• 45:03
  early,
• 45:03
  yeah.
• 45:04
  People
• 45:04
  who
• 45:04
  are
• 45:04
  involved,
• 45:05
  that
• 45:05
  goes
• 45:05
  a
• 45:05
  long
• 45:05
  way
• 45:06
  for
• 45:06
  sure.
• 45:06
  So
• 45:07
  definitely
• 45:07
  use
• 45:07
  that
• 45:08
  as
• 45:08
  much
• 45:08
  as
• 45:08
  possible.
• 45:09
  There
• 45:09
  has
• 45:09
  been
• 45:09
  so
• 45:10
  many
• 45:10
  ups
• 45:10
  and
• 45:10
  downs
• 45:11
  throughout
• 45:11
  that
• 45:11
  10
• 45:12
  month
• 45:12
  journey
• 45:12
  where
• 45:13
  like
• 45:13
  multiple
• 45:13
  times
• 45:14
  I
• 45:14
  felt
• 45:14
  this
• 45:14
  is
• 45:14
  not
• 45:15
  going
• 45:15
  to
• 45:15
  happen.
• 45:15
  So
• 45:16
  be
• 45:16
  ready
• 45:17
  that
• 45:17
  you
• 45:18
  will
• 45:18
  go
• 45:18
  through
• 45:18
  those
• 45:18
  sort
• 45:19
  of
• 45:19
  phases
• 45:20
  where
• 45:20
  you
• 45:20
  will
• 45:21
  have
• 45:21
  ups
• 45:21
  and
• 45:21
  downs.
• 45:22
  Right.
• 45:22
  But
• 45:23
  important
• 45:23
  thing
• 45:23
  is
• 45:24
  like,
• 45:24
  just
• 45:24
  don't
• 45:24
  lose
• 45:25
  it.
• 45:25
  So
• 45:26
  I
• 45:26
  just
• 45:26
  kept
• 45:26
  it
• 45:26
  in
• 45:27
  my
• 45:27
  head.
• 45:27
  I
• 45:27
  was
• 45:27
  like,
• 45:27
  okay,
• 45:27
  even
• 45:28
  if
• 45:28
  it
• 45:28
  goes
• 45:28
  down
• 45:28
  or
• 45:29
  doesn't
• 45:29
  happen,
• 45:29
  I
• 45:30
  have
• 45:30
  no
• 45:30
  expectation,
• 45:30
  but
• 45:31
  I'll
• 45:31
  consistently,
• 45:31
  persistently
• 45:33
  keep
• 45:33
  on
• 45:33
  working
• 45:34
  and
• 45:34
  pushing
• 45:34
  for
• 45:34
  it.
• 45:35
  That's
• 45:35
  another
• 45:35
  sort
• 45:35
  of
• 45:35
  meta,
• 45:36
  meta
• 45:36
  thing
• 45:36
  which
• 45:36
  I'm
• 45:37
  sure
• 45:37
  everybody
• 45:37
  knows.
• 45:38
  The
• 45:38
  biggest
• 45:38
  thing
• 45:39
  has
• 45:39
  been
• 45:39
  listening
• 45:40
  and
• 45:40
  then
• 45:41
  showing
• 45:41
  it
• 45:41
  as
• 45:42
  fast
• 45:42
  as
• 45:42
  possible.
• 45:43
  Most
• 45:43
  of
• 45:43
  the
• 45:43
  big
• 45:43
  companies,
• 45:44
  this
• 45:44
  is,
• 45:44
  this
• 45:44
  company
• 45:45
  is
• 45:45
  like
• 45:45
  thousand
• 45:45
  people
• 45:46
  almost.
• 45:46
  They
• 45:46
  are
• 45:46
  so
• 45:47
  fed
• 45:47
  up
• 45:48
  with
• 45:48
  bigger
• 45:49
  incumbents
• 45:50
  in
• 45:50
  that
• 45:51
  area.
• 45:52
  So
• 45:52
  let's
• 45:52
  say
• 45:52
  in
• 45:53
  my
• 45:53
  play,
• 45:53
  in
• 45:53
  my
• 45:54
  space,
• 45:54
  like
• 45:55
  the
• 45:55
  performance,
• 45:55
  engagement,
• 45:56
  HR
• 45:56
  space,
• 45:57
  there
• 45:57
  are
• 45:57
  many
• 45:57
  big
• 45:57
  companies
• 45:58
  out
• 45:58
  there,
• 45:58
  I
• 45:58
  can
• 45:59
  tell
• 45:59
  you
• 45:59
  for
• 45:59
  sure.
• 46:00
  Most
• 46:00
  of
• 46:00
  their
• 46:00
  customers
• 46:01
  are
• 46:01
  unhappy.
• 46:02
  Right.
• 46:03
  Because
• 46:03
  this
• 46:03
  space
• 46:04
  is
• 46:04
  much
• 46:04
  more
• 46:04
  enterprise
• 46:05
  than
• 46:05
  like
• 46:05
  probably
• 46:06
  other,
• 46:06
  let's
• 46:06
  say
• 46:07
  other,
• 46:07
  more
• 46:08
  cutting
• 46:08
  edge
• 46:08
  spaces.
• 46:09
  And
• 46:09
  you
• 46:09
  need
• 46:09
  to
• 46:09
  tap
• 46:10
  into
• 46:10
  that
• 46:10
  anger.
• 46:11
  So
• 46:11
  I
• 46:11
  did
• 46:11
  that.
• 46:12
  Like
• 46:12
  I
• 46:12
  will
• 46:12
  bring
• 46:12
  those
• 46:13
  conversations
• 46:13
  out.
• 46:14
  I
• 46:14
  will
• 46:14
  try
• 46:14
  to
• 46:15
  sort
• 46:15
  of
• 46:15
  use
• 46:16
  that
• 46:16
  to
• 46:16
  my
• 46:16
  advantage
• 46:17
  when
• 46:17
  I'm
• 46:17
  talking
• 46:17
  to
• 46:17
  them.
• 46:18
  Right?
• 46:18
  Oh,
• 46:18
  they
• 46:19
  can't
• 46:19
  do
• 46:19
  that.
• 46:20
  Nice.
• 46:21
  So
• 46:21
  I
• 46:21
  knew
• 46:21
  that
• 46:21
  they
• 46:22
  couldn't
• 46:22
  do
• 46:22
  it.
• 46:22
  So
• 46:22
  I
• 46:22
  will
• 46:23
  try
• 46:23
  to
• 46:23
  sort
• 46:23
  of
• 46:23
  emphasize
• 46:24
  on
• 46:24
  that
• 46:24
  part
• 46:24
  as
• 46:25
  much
• 46:25
  as
• 46:25
  possible.
• 46:25
  I'll
• 46:25
  build
• 46:25
  it
• 46:25
  out
• 46:26
  in
• 46:26
  that
• 46:26
  way
• 46:27
  that
• 46:27
  this
• 46:27
  part
• 46:27
  of
• 46:27
  my
• 46:27
  product
• 46:28
  is
• 46:28
  really
• 46:28
  shiny.
• 46:29
  You
• 46:29
  know,
• 46:29
  like
• 46:29
  we
• 46:29
  are
• 46:30
  creating
• 46:30
  a
• 46:30
  differentiator
• 46:31
  that
• 46:31
  is
• 46:32
  really
• 46:32
  sort
• 46:32
  of
• 46:32
  doubled
• 46:33
  down
• 46:33
  because
• 46:34
  they
• 46:34
  don't
• 46:35
  have
• 46:35
  it.
• 46:35
  You
• 46:35
  are
• 46:35
  a
• 46:36
  founder
• 46:36
  and
• 46:36
  if
• 46:37
  you're
• 46:37
  not
• 46:37
  like
• 46:37
  in
• 46:38
  any
• 46:38
  sort
• 46:38
  of
• 46:38
  constraints
• 46:39
  in
• 46:39
  the
• 46:39
  beginning,
• 46:40
  then
• 46:40
  you
• 46:40
  can
• 46:41
  commit
• 46:41
  to
• 46:41
  providing
• 46:42
  as
• 46:42
  much
• 46:42
  support
• 46:42
  as
• 46:43
  possible
• 46:43
  to
• 46:44
  these
• 46:44
  companies.
• 46:44
  And
• 46:44
  that's
• 46:45
  one
• 46:45
  of
• 46:45
  the
• 46:45
  reasons,
• 46:46
  like
• 46:46
  I
• 46:46
  was
• 46:46
  always
• 46:47
  there.
• 46:48
  So
• 46:48
  I
• 46:48
  will
• 46:48
  use
• 46:49
  every
• 46:49
  opportunity
• 46:50
  in
• 46:50
  the
• 46:50
  book
• 46:51
  to
• 46:51
  sort
• 46:51
  of
• 46:51
  have
• 46:52
  a
• 46:52
  conversation
• 46:52
  with
• 46:52
  them.
• 46:53
  I
• 46:54
  will
• 46:54
  try
• 46:54
  to
• 46:54
  make
• 46:54
  it
• 46:55
  like
• 46:55
  a
• 46:55
  regular
• 46:55
  conversation.
• 46:56
  So
• 46:56
  like
• 46:56
  a
• 46:56
  bi
• 46:57
  weekly
• 46:57
  thing
• 46:57
  or
• 46:57
  weekly
• 46:58
  thing
• 46:58
  or
• 46:58
  whatever.
• 46:58
  Like
• 46:59
  I
• 46:59
  will
• 46:59
  try
• 46:59
  not
• 47:00
  to
• 47:00
  lose
• 47:00
  that
• 47:00
  touch
• 47:01
  or
• 47:01
  contact
• 47:01
  in
• 47:02
  any
• 47:02
  way.
• 47:02
  That
• 47:02
  was
• 47:03
  hard.
• 47:03
  Like
• 47:04
  imagine
• 47:05
  the
• 47:05
  people
• 47:05
  I
• 47:05
  was
• 47:06
  talking
• 47:06
  to,
• 47:07
  they
• 47:07
  were
• 47:07
  employees
• 47:07
  of
• 47:08
  those
• 47:08
  companies,
• 47:08
  that
• 47:09
  company,
• 47:09
  right.
• 47:10
  They
• 47:10
  would
• 47:10
  have
• 47:10
  not
• 47:11
  a
• 47:11
  very
• 47:11
  big
• 47:11
  reason
• 47:12
  to
• 47:12
  talk
• 47:12
  to
• 47:12
  me
• 47:12
  because
• 47:13
  I'm
• 47:13
  just
• 47:13
  a
• 47:13
  startup
• 47:14
  like
• 47:14
  this
• 47:14
  one
• 47:15
  guy.
• 47:15
  Right.
• 47:16
  So
• 47:16
  I
• 47:16
  had
• 47:16
  to
• 47:17
  really
• 47:17
  work
• 47:17
  hard
• 47:18
  to
• 47:18
  make
• 47:18
  sure
• 47:19
  that,
• 47:19
  that
• 47:19
  they
• 47:19
  come
• 47:19
  on
• 47:19
  a
• 47:20
  call
• 47:20
  and
• 47:20
  they
• 47:20
  get
• 47:20
  something
• 47:21
  out
• 47:21
  of
• 47:21
  it.
• 47:21
  And
• 47:22
  this
• 47:22
  will
• 47:22
  change
• 47:23
  as
• 47:23
  you
• 47:23
  go.
• 47:23
  So
• 47:24
  sometimes
• 47:24
  it
• 47:24
  will
• 47:24
  be
• 47:25
  like,
• 47:25
  oh,
• 47:25
  let's
• 47:26
  just
• 47:26
  talk
• 47:26
  about
• 47:26
  this
• 47:26
  particular
• 47:27
  problem
• 47:27
  that
• 47:27
  you
• 47:28
  have
• 47:28
  in
• 47:28
  this
• 47:28
  platform.
• 47:29
  And
• 47:29
  I
• 47:29
  wanted
• 47:29
  to
• 47:29
  sort
• 47:30
  of
• 47:30
  ideate
• 47:30
  this
• 47:30
  thing
• 47:30
  with
• 47:31
  you
• 47:31
  guys.
• 47:31
  And
• 47:31
  I
• 47:31
  know
• 47:31
  that
• 47:31
  you
• 47:32
  have
• 47:32
  been
• 47:32
  struggling
• 47:32
  with
• 47:32
  this
• 47:33
  and
• 47:33
  then
• 47:33
  some
• 47:33
  someday
• 47:34
  it
• 47:34
  could
• 47:34
  be
• 47:34
  like,
• 47:34
  oh,
• 47:34
  look
• 47:34
  at
• 47:34
  this
• 47:35
  cool
• 47:35
  thing
• 47:35
  that
• 47:36
  I
• 47:36
  built.
• 47:36
  I
• 47:36
  want
• 47:36
  to
• 47:37
  give
• 47:37
  you
• 47:37
  a
• 47:37
  demo.
• 47:37
  Right?
• 47:38
  And
• 47:38
  then
• 47:38
  eventually
• 47:39
  that
• 47:39
  got
• 47:39
  into
• 47:40
  a
• 47:40
  habit
• 47:41
  and
• 47:41
  then
• 47:41
  it
• 47:42
  became
• 47:42
  like
• 47:42
  a
• 47:42
  thing.
• 47:43
  So
• 47:43
  yeah,
• 47:44
  that's
• 47:44
  how
• 47:44
  it
• 47:44
  evolved.
• 47:45
  Okay,
• 47:45
  me,
• 47:45
  what
• 47:46
  I
• 47:46
  believe
• 47:46
  you're
• 47:47
  saying,
• 47:47
  and
• 47:47
  again
• 47:48
  me,
• 47:48
  the
• 47:48
  lever
• 47:48
  of
• 47:49
  analogies
• 47:49
  is
• 47:49
  you've
• 47:50
  got
• 47:50
  your
• 47:50
  competition,
• 47:51
  which
• 47:51
  are
• 47:52
  giant
• 47:52
  oil
• 47:52
  tankers,
• 47:53
  you're
• 47:53
  a
• 47:53
  speedboat,
• 47:55
  you
• 47:55
  can
• 47:55
  quickly
• 47:56
  adapt.
• 47:57
  And
• 47:58
  sorry,
• 47:59
  I
• 47:59
  love
• 47:59
  I,
• 47:59
  I
• 47:59
  love
• 48:00
  my
• 48:00
  analogies,
• 48:01
  but
• 48:01
  I
• 48:01
  just
• 48:01
  think
• 48:02
  of
• 48:02
  it
• 48:02
  like
• 48:02
  that,
• 48:02
  like
• 48:02
  a
• 48:03
  lot
• 48:03
  of
• 48:03
  people
• 48:03
  and
• 48:04
  I
• 48:04
  think
• 48:04
  that's
• 48:04
  gold.
• 48:05
  Like
• 48:05
  anybody
• 48:06
  listening
• 48:06
  who
• 48:07
  is
• 48:07
  life
• 48:08
  satching
• 48:08
  building
• 48:09
  something,
• 48:09
  you've
• 48:10
  got
• 48:10
  really
• 48:10
  well
• 48:10
  established
• 48:11
  competitors.
• 48:12
  The
• 48:13
  fact
• 48:13
  that
• 48:13
  you're
• 48:13
  small
• 48:14
  and
• 48:14
  you're
• 48:14
  adaptable
• 48:15
  and
• 48:15
  you're
• 48:15
  contactable
• 48:16
  and
• 48:17
  you're
• 48:17
  relationship
• 48:18
  focused
• 48:19
  gives
• 48:19
  you
• 48:20
  a
• 48:20
  massive
• 48:20
  advantage
• 48:21
  to
• 48:22
  build
• 48:22
  something
• 48:23
  that
• 48:23
  they
• 48:23
  really
• 48:24
  love
• 48:25
  and
• 48:26
  are
• 48:27
  very
• 48:27
  enthusiastic
• 48:28
  about.
• 48:28
  Is
• 48:28
  there
• 48:29
  anything
• 48:29
  you
• 48:29
  want
• 48:29
  to
• 48:29
  add
• 48:29
  to
• 48:29
  that
• 48:29
  point?
• 48:30
  Do
• 48:30
  you
• 48:30
  agree?
• 48:31
  No.
• 48:31
  A
• 48:31
  hundred
• 48:31
  percent.
• 48:32
  A
• 48:32
  hundred
• 48:32
  percent.
• 48:32
  I
• 48:32
  think
• 48:33
  this
• 48:33
  is
• 48:33
  such
• 48:33
  a
• 48:34
  great
• 48:34
  point
• 48:35
  because
• 48:35
  like
• 48:36
  as
• 48:36
  a
• 48:36
  technical
• 48:37
  founder,
• 48:38
  you
• 48:38
  know,
• 48:38
  like
• 48:38
  there's
• 48:39
  any,
• 48:39
  there's
• 48:39
  a
• 48:39
  part
• 48:39
  of
• 48:40
  me
• 48:40
  which
• 48:40
  always
• 48:40
  like,
• 48:41
  if
• 48:41
  I'm
• 48:41
  going
• 48:41
  to
• 48:41
  build
• 48:41
  the
• 48:41
  best
• 48:42
  product
• 48:42
  out
• 48:42
  there,
• 48:42
  you're
• 48:43
  going
• 48:43
  to
• 48:43
  buy
• 48:43
  it,
• 48:43
  right?
• 48:44
  Or
• 48:44
  I
• 48:44
  just
• 48:44
  need
• 48:45
  to
• 48:45
  build
• 48:45
  that.
• 48:46
  But
• 48:46
  really
• 48:47
  that's
• 48:47
  not
• 48:47
  true
• 48:48
  at
• 48:48
  all.
• 48:48
  They
• 48:48
  don't
• 48:49
  care.
• 48:49
  I
• 48:49
  mean,
• 48:49
  obviously
• 48:50
  when
• 48:50
  they're
• 48:50
  using
• 48:51
  the
• 48:51
  product,
• 48:51
  you
• 48:52
  can't
• 48:52
  have
• 48:52
  a
• 48:52
  suboptimal
• 48:53
  experience,
• 48:53
  right?
• 48:54
  But
• 48:54
  for
• 48:55
  them
• 48:55
  to
• 48:55
  even
• 48:55
  use
• 48:55
  the
• 48:56
  product,
• 48:56
  you
• 48:56
  need
• 48:56
  to
• 48:56
  spend
• 48:57
  so
• 48:57
  much
• 48:57
  more
• 48:57
  time
• 48:58
  building
• 48:58
  that
• 48:58
  relationship.
• 48:59
  So
• 48:59
  one
• 48:59
  thing
• 48:59
  I
• 48:59
  realized,
• 49:00
  and
• 49:00
  I
• 49:00
  was
• 49:00
  always
• 49:01
  pleasantly
• 49:01
  surprised,
• 49:02
  was
• 49:04
  people
• 49:04
  are
• 49:04
  much
• 49:04
  more
• 49:05
  sort
• 49:05
  of
• 49:05
  early
• 49:06
  adopters.
• 49:06
  It's
• 49:07
  almost
• 49:07
  like
• 49:09
  once
• 49:09
  you
• 49:10
  talk
• 49:10
  into
• 49:10
  a
• 49:10
  business,
• 49:11
  there's
• 49:12
  this
• 49:12
  initial
• 49:12
  sort
• 49:13
  of
• 49:13
  door
• 49:13
  opening
• 49:14
  exercise
• 49:14
  where
• 49:14
  like
• 49:14
  whether
• 49:15
  we
• 49:15
  even
• 49:15
  care
• 49:16
  about
• 49:16
  that
• 49:16
  conversation
• 49:17
  or
• 49:17
  not,
• 49:17
  and
• 49:18
  if
• 49:18
  they
• 49:18
  do,
• 49:19
  once
• 49:19
  you're
• 49:19
  inside
• 49:20
  the
• 49:20
  door
• 49:20
  or
• 49:20
  like
• 49:21
  once
• 49:21
  you
• 49:21
  just
• 49:21
  open
• 49:21
  the
• 49:21
  door,
• 49:22
  then
• 49:22
  you
• 49:22
  will
• 49:22
  be
• 49:22
  surprised
• 49:23
  like
• 49:23
  how
• 49:24
  much
• 49:24
  people
• 49:25
  want
• 49:25
  to
• 49:25
  talk
• 49:25
  to
• 49:27
  startups
• 49:27
  or
• 49:28
  like
• 49:28
  very
• 49:28
  sort
• 49:29
  of
• 49:29
  generous
• 49:29
  as
• 49:29
  well
• 49:30
  as
• 49:30
  adventurous.
• 49:31
  Right.
• 49:31
  So,
• 49:31
  yeah,
• 49:32
  so
• 49:32
  I
• 49:32
  think
• 49:32
  as
• 49:32
  you
• 49:32
  said,
• 49:33
  like
• 49:33
  this
• 49:33
  speedboat
• 49:34
  thing,
• 49:34
  right,
• 49:34
  people
• 49:34
  want
• 49:34
  to
• 49:34
  be
• 49:35
  on
• 49:35
  their
• 49:35
  speedboat.
• 49:35
  I
• 49:36
  have
• 49:36
  people
• 49:36
  right
• 49:36
  now
• 49:37
  who
• 49:37
  enjoyed
• 49:37
  it
• 49:37
  so
• 49:38
  much
• 49:38
  the
• 49:38
  last
• 49:38
  10
• 49:39
  to
• 49:39
  12
• 49:39
  months
• 49:40
  that,
• 49:41
  yeah,
• 49:41
  there's
• 49:42
  been
• 49:42
  plenty
• 49:42
  of
• 49:42
  times,
• 49:43
  can
• 49:43
  I
• 49:43
  be
• 49:43
  on
• 49:43
  this
• 49:44
  speedboat
• 49:44
  now?
• 49:45
  Can
• 49:45
  I,
• 49:45
  you
• 49:46
  know,
• 49:46
  like
• 49:46
  join
• 49:46
  you
• 49:46
  on
• 49:47
  this
• 49:47
  speedboat
• 49:47
  or
• 49:48
  can
• 49:48
  we
• 49:48
  do
• 49:48
  it
• 49:48
  together,
• 49:49
  that
• 49:49
  sort
• 49:49
  of
• 49:49
  thing.
• 49:49
  So
• 49:50
  they
• 49:50
  love
• 49:50
  it.
• 49:50
  It's
• 49:51
  amazing
• 49:51
  because
• 49:51
  it's
• 49:51
  also
• 49:53
  goes
• 49:53
  back
• 49:53
  to
• 49:53
  the
• 49:53
  value
• 49:54
  point.
• 49:54
  How
• 49:54
  do
• 49:55
  you
• 49:55
  become
• 49:55
  invaluable?
• 49:56
  How
• 49:57
  do
• 49:57
  you
• 49:57
  become
• 49:57
  irreplaceable?
• 49:58
  How
• 49:58
  do
• 49:58
  you
• 49:58
  become
• 49:59
  absolutely
• 49:59
  essential?
• 50:01
  It's
• 50:01
  by
• 50:01
  building
• 50:02
  that
• 50:02
  relationship
• 50:03
  with
• 50:04
  enterprise
• 50:04
  clients.
• 50:05
  Especially
• 50:05
  if
• 50:05
  you're
• 50:06
  in
• 50:06
  B2B.
• 50:06
  If
• 50:06
  you're
• 50:07
  in
• 50:07
  B2C
• 50:07
  and
• 50:08
  you
• 50:08
  sell
• 50:08
  an
• 50:08
  app
• 50:08
  at
• 50:09
  99p
• 50:09
  a
• 50:09
  month,
• 50:10
  please
• 50:10
  don't
• 50:10
  spend
• 50:11
  all
• 50:11
  your
• 50:11
  time
• 50:12
  with
• 50:12
  one
• 50:13
  client
• 50:14
  or
• 50:14
  user.
• 50:15
  You
• 50:15
  know,
• 50:15
  there's
• 50:16
  no
• 50:16
  point.
• 50:17
  That
• 50:18
  is
• 50:18
  not,
• 50:18
  that
• 50:18
  is
• 50:19
  not
• 50:19
  the
• 50:19
  route
• 50:19
  to
• 50:19
  success.
• 50:20
  You
• 50:20
  know,
• 50:20
  you
• 50:20
  need,
• 50:21
  you
• 50:21
  need
• 50:21
  volume
• 50:22
  Right.
• 50:22
  It's
• 50:23
  been
• 50:23
  really
• 50:23
  interesting
• 50:24
  talking
• 50:24
  to
• 50:24
  you,
• 50:24
  Satchin,
• 50:25
  and
• 50:25
  I
• 50:25
  hope
• 50:26
  that
• 50:26
  you'd
• 50:26
  be
• 50:26
  willing
• 50:27
  to
• 50:27
  come
• 50:27
  back
• 50:27
  again,
• 50:28
  share
• 50:28
  with
• 50:28
  everybody
• 50:29
  how
• 50:30
  you're
• 50:30
  getting
• 50:30
  on,
• 50:31
  how
• 50:31
  it's
• 50:31
  all
• 50:31
  developing
• 50:32
  at
• 50:32
  some
• 50:33
  point
• 50:33
  in
• 50:33
  the
• 50:33
  future,
• 50:33
  maybe
• 50:34
  in
• 50:34
  six,
• 50:34
  nine
• 50:34
  months
• 50:34
  time,
• 50:35
  whatever
• 50:35
  it
• 50:35
  may
• 50:35
  be.
• 50:36
  Because
• 50:36
  a
• 50:36
  lot
• 50:36
  of
• 50:37
  guests
• 50:37
  really
• 50:37
  do
• 50:38
  like
• 50:38
  the
• 50:38
  idea
• 50:38
  of
• 50:38
  coming
• 50:38
  back
• 50:39
  and
• 50:39
  a
• 50:39
  lot
• 50:39
  of
• 50:39
  people
• 50:39
  message
• 50:40
  me
• 50:40
  and
• 50:40
  say,
• 50:40
  you
• 50:41
  know,
• 50:41
  would
• 50:41
  love
• 50:42
  to
• 50:42
  hear
• 50:42
  the
• 50:43
  future.
• 50:43
  Only
• 50:43
  if
• 50:44
  you
• 50:44
  say
• 50:44
  yes
• 50:44
  and
• 50:44
  there's
• 50:44
  no
• 50:45
  pressure,
• 50:45
  you
• 50:45
  can
• 50:45
  say
• 50:45
  no,
• 50:47
  no,
• 50:47
  no.
• 50:48
  I
• 50:48
  would
• 50:48
  love
• 50:48
  to,
• 50:48
  Mike.
• 50:49
  And
• 50:49
  I
• 50:49
  think
• 50:49
  I
• 50:49
  really
• 50:50
  loved
• 50:50
  our
• 50:51
  conversation
• 50:51
  as
• 50:51
  well.
• 50:54
  And
• 50:54
  I'm
• 50:54
  sure
• 50:55
  that
• 50:55
  there'll
• 50:55
  be
• 50:55
  a
• 50:56
  couple
• 50:56
  of
• 50:56
  things
• 50:56
  that
• 50:56
  I'll
• 50:57
  say.
• 50:57
  Oh
• 50:57
  man,
• 50:57
  I
• 50:57
  wish
• 50:58
  I
• 50:58
  had
• 50:58
  that
• 50:59
  question
• 50:59
  when
• 50:59
  we
• 50:59
  were
• 51:00
  talking,
• 51:00
  but
• 51:00
  it's
• 51:01
  just
• 51:01
  been
• 51:01
  such
• 51:01
  a
• 51:02
  free
• 51:02
  flowing
• 51:02
  and
• 51:02
  comfortable
• 51:03
  conversation
• 51:04
  and
• 51:04
  for
• 51:04
  those
• 51:04
  of
• 51:05
  you
• 51:05
  watching,
• 51:05
  you
• 51:06
  know
• 51:06
  that
• 51:06
  it's
• 51:07
  fairly
• 51:07
  free
• 51:07
  rein.
• 51:08
  You
• 51:08
  know,
• 51:08
  it's,
• 51:08
  it's
• 51:08
  all
• 51:09
  about
• 51:09
  having
• 51:09
  those
• 51:09
  honest
• 51:10
  conversations
• 51:10
  and
• 51:10
  that's
• 51:11
  why
• 51:11
  we
• 51:11
  touched
• 51:11
  on
• 51:11
  everything.
• 51:13
  Please
• 51:13
  do.
• 51:14
  If
• 51:14
  you're
• 51:14
  interested
• 51:15
  in
• 51:15
  finding
• 51:15
  out
• 51:15
  about
• 51:16
  how
• 51:16
  to
• 51:16
  make
• 51:16
  your
• 51:17
  team,
• 51:18
  your
• 51:18
  employees,
• 51:19
  your
• 51:19
  managers
• 51:19
  work
• 51:20
  together
• 51:20
  more
• 51:20
  effectively
• 51:21
  and
• 51:21
  everybody
• 51:21
  better
• 51:21
  as
• 51:22
  a
• 51:22
  whole,
• 51:22
  check
• 51:22
  out
• 51:23
  Clarity
• 51:24
  Loop
• 51:24
  and
• 51:25
  hook
• 51:25
  up
• 51:25
  with
• 51:26
  Sachin
• 51:26
  on
• 51:27
  LinkedIn.
• 51:27
  I
• 51:27
  will
• 51:28
  pop
• 51:28
  all
• 51:28
  the
• 51:28
  details
• 51:28
  down
• 51:29
  below,
• 51:29
  whether
• 51:29
  it's
• 51:29
  in
• 51:30
  the
• 51:30
  Apple
• 51:30
  Spotify
• 51:31
  show
• 51:31
  notes
• 51:31
  or
• 51:32
  on
• 51:32
  YouTube.
• 51:33
  And
• 51:33
  please
• 51:33
  do
• 51:33
  subscribe.
• 51:35
  Thank
• 51:35
  you
• 51:35
  very
• 51:35
  much
• 51:36
  for
• 51:36
  joining
• 51:37
  me
• 51:37
  and
• 51:37
  joining
• 51:37
  Sachin
• 51:38
  today.
• 51:38
  Thank
• 51:39
  you,
• 51:39
  Sachin.
• 51:39
  Thank
• 51:39
  you.