Latest / The Joe Rogan Recap / Cory Sandhagen (2025) - Evolution of MMA and the Future

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Cory Sandhagen (2025) - Evolution of MMA and the Future · The Joe Rogan Recap

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  Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap, and before we get going, you can
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  now access the full Google Notebook with a mind map,
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  timeline and briefing document by clicking the link in the
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  description. Today we're embarking on a deep
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  dive into a conversation that well, it might start in the high
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  octane world of combat sports, but believe me, it quickly
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  expands far beyond. We're weaving together threads
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  of personal discipline, some really cutting edge health
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  insights, surprising ancient wisdom, and even venturing into
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  the the wild future of humanity through the lens of AI.
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  It's a journey you probably won't expect.
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  And that's precisely our mission in this deep dive, isn't it?
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  To extract truly unique and I think powerful insights from the
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  perspective of a top tier athlete.
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  And these aren't just, you know, tactical tips for the Octagon.
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  They resonate universally. They touch on how we approach
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  challenges in any demanding field, how we manage this
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  overwhelming influx of information these days, and
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  maybe even how we define our own reality.
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  Prepare for some genuinely surprising turns and, yeah,
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  profound connections. OK, let's untack this.
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  This is the fascinating anecdote right off the bat.
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  Gives us a glimpse into the kind of, well, extreme dedication
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  we're talking about. Our subjects shared this story
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  about his friend Gage and this unexpected golf addiction.
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  Gage apparently got fully hooked on golf.
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  I mean, to the point where he played an incredible 260 days in
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  a row between fights. 260 days. Wow.
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  Yeah, and get this, he ended up winning a Ferrari at something
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  called Fanatics Fest. A Ferrari?
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  Seriously. Seriously, our subject describes
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  Gage as a kind of psycho who truly excels when he focuses.
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  You know, it's such a vivid example of how that extreme
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  dedication, almost an obsession, it can be this incredible
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  superpower for achieving extraordinary things like
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  winning a Ferrari. But you know, as we often see,
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  with something as addictive and time consuming as golf, it can
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  also become a significant trap. What does that level of focus
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  even reveal? It's a striking image, isn't it?
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  And it immediately makes you compare that dedication with the
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  the contrasting training philosophies we see in MMA all
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  the time. On one hand, you've got fighters
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  like Moorab. Our subject mentions he's
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  constantly working, like even running the day after a grueling
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  fight. Right, that relentless pursuit
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  idea. Exactly.
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  Consistent effort is paramount. But then you have the, let's
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  say, controversial case of John Jones, described by our subject
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  as an outlier. Jones has this immense, almost
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  unparalleled talent, but famously doesn't train, like, at
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  all between fight. Yeah, I.
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  Remember hearing about that. The stories are legendary.
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  Right claims he beat Daniel Cormier, a legend himself, while
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  supposedly on coke and barely trained for that first brutal
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  fight against Alexander Gustafson.
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  So it begs this crucial question, doesn't it?
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  Does pure, almost God-given talent sometimes just, you know,
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  defy all conventional wisdom about hard work and the constant
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  grind? That's precisely what our
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  subject grapples with, and his perspective on John Jones is
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  incredibly clear. He finds that approach
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  completely unacceptable for someone aiming to be a world
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  champion. For him, actions absolutely must
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  align with goals, no question. But then it gets even more
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  interesting when you look at his own unique relationship with
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  rest and work. He's not exactly a fan of
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  downtime himself at scenes. What's truly intriguing here is
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  this idea of different wired brains.
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  Our subject openly admits he dislikes chilling.
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  He actually gets stir crazy on vacation.
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  Stir crazy? Yeah, I can almost picture that.
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  He much prefers feeling a little stressed or having something
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  going all the time to feel truly alive.
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  He thrives on the momentum of constant improvement in
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  training. He sees any disruption like an
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  injury, not really as a set back, but as needing a very
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  specific two week kick back into camp period to regain that flow,
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  that rhythm. Exactly.
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  It's a mindset that seems to just require constant forward
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  motion. And that concept of momentum is
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  absolutely central to understanding his unique
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  training regimen. He revealed his normal everyday
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  training is all the exact same as his intense fight camp, just
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  less competitive. Less competitive?
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  How does that work? Well, he explained why he dials
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  down the competition outside of camp.
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  It's specifically to work on stuff, be more playful, maybe
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  try new skills without that pressure of having to win every
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  single spar. He reserves that full
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  competitive intensity for the final, say, four or five weeks
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  of camp. That's when the focus shifts
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  entirely to practicing winning each round, building that habit.
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  OK, that makes sense. And beyond just the physical
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  grind, he uses this powerful mental strategy visualization.
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  Twice a week. He deliberately puts himself in
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  that state of an elevated high intensity fight.
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  He makes a point of doing this especially on days when he's
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  maybe dragging a bit. Like a mental jump start.
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  Exactly. Using it as a deliberate tool to
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  prepare his body, his mind really, to make good decisions
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  under the extreme pressure of a real fight.
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  It's a fascinating insight into how these elite athletes train
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  their minds just as much as their bodies.
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  That kind of mental resilience is absolutely vital, especially
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  when you consider the sheer, almost brutal physical toll of
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  fighting at this level. And that brings us right to his
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  extensive injury history. It paints this vivid, almost
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  shocking picture of the extreme physical demands.
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  Get this, he's had a staggering 19 general anesthetics for
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  surgeries 19. Good grief. 19 We're talking to
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  torn ACLA plantar plate issue, a tightrope surgery, which you
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  know is the same complex procedure.
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  NFL star Pat Mahomes hat OK a hip tear, 6 elbow surgeries and
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  five knee surgeries. That list is just unbelievable
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  for one person, let alone one career.
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  It really forces you to reflect on the relentless resilience
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  required, right, And the profound personal cost of
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  pushing human limits like that. Yeah.
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  What does this tell us about dedication in any tough field?
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  Indeed, And what's particularly harrowing, I think, is his
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  experience with staph infections.
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  They're notorious in combat sports gyms.
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  He detailed how it led to Bursitis and the grave danger of
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  it becoming systemic, spreading throughout the body and
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  literally killing people. He recounted this terrifying
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  knee infection just before his pivotal fight against Kumar
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  Nurmagomedov. He said he was genuinely afraid.
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  I'm about to die. But he pushed through, avoided
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  surgery, avoided canceling the fight just to keep the bout on
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  schedule. The pressure must have been
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  immense. Absolutely, and you contrast
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  that with say the severe necrotic pneumonia Ben Askren
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  suffered which also started from a staph infection.
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  It just highlights the life threatening nature of these
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  unseen battles fighters constantly face.
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  And then there was this truly surprising, almost ironic twist
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  about antibiotics. He mentioned a specific
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  antibiotic, he couldn't recall the exact name, that ironically
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  caused his tricep to tear. Wait, the antibiotic caused the
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  tear? Yeah, apparently by making his
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  ligament super shitty, as he put it, it just illustrates these
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  unexpected, dangerous side effects.
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  You fix one thing, another problem pops up.
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  It's a vicious cycle sometimes. This whole point raises a really
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  important question about how fighters, maybe out of sheer
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  necessity or desperation, sometimes turn to unconventional
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  remedies, doesn't it? He discussed using garlic of all
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  things for staph infections. Claimed it fucking kills
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  everything. Garlic.
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  Really. Yeah, he shared this anecdote of
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  taking like 1015 High Potency Garlic Pills said it resulted in
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  an incredibly powerful cleansing effect on his system, to put it
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  mildly. But what's fascinating here is
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  how this connects to ancient wisdom.
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  He mentioned a 1000 year old Anglo-Saxon eye remedy using
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  garlic that was actually proven effective against MRSA.
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  No way against MRSA. Yeah, a notoriously antibiotic
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  resistant bacteria. It really underscores that some
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  of these age-old solutions might actually have real merit,
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  despite how, you know, unconventional they seem today.
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  He also shared another surprisingly simple health hack
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  using spicy food and these Hotshots, a concoction of
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  cinnamon, cayenne and ginger to prevent cramping.
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  Hotshots. OK, I'm intrigued.
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  How does that work? The mechanism, as he explained
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  it, is that it apparently tricks your neurons into firing to your
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  mouth instead of your muscles, which somehow prevents those
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  debilitating cramps. Tricking the neurons sounds
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  almost too simple. Right.
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  But if it works for an elite athlete at that level, there's
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  clearly something to it. It really highlights the unique
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  and often brutal relationship with food for fighters,
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  especially the extreme discipline and sometimes frankly
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  dangerous practices around weight cuts.
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  We've seen infamous examples, right?
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  Like Cain Velasquez reportedly drinking wine while cutting
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  weight just before a fight, pushing his body to the
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  absolute. Brink Easy stuff.
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  And our subject also shared his own recent significant personal
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  change, quitting drinking entirely.
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  It just underscores the constant evolution fighters go through,
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  optimizing their bodies, their minds for peak performance.
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  It's like a continuous personal science experiment.
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  OK, let's pivot back to the fighting strategy itself.
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  Our subject really leans into this defensive, almost puzzle
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  like style. He uses so many fans and so many
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  stance switches, which he believes significantly enhances
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  longevity in the sport. Smart Less damage taken.
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  Overtime. Exactly.
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  But he expressed a common frustration that casuals often
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  want more blood and more offense.
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  They frequently Boo grappling, which he describes as super
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  proprioceptive, relying on that unconscious sense of body
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  position and movement, and often hidden to the eye for the
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  untrained observer. Yeah, they don't see the
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  intricate chess match happening on the ground, the subtle
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  shifts, the grips. Or they just see clenching or
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  stalling sometimes. And what's fascinating here is
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  how this reflects the ongoing evolution of martial arts
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  itself. I mean, before UFC 93, it was
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  truly the Wild West. Nobody really knew which style
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  was definitively the best. Total chaos back then.
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  Our subject shared his own journey moving from Taekwon a
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  boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai and eventually Jiu Jitsu, where
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  he admitted he initially felt completely helpless.
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  He is the Coral Parisian Judo throw example.
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  Remember that? A seemingly effortless throw
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  completely neutralizing a much larger opponent.
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  It just showcases how devastating A refined style can
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  be. Yeah, technique over brute
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  force. Precisely.
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  It's a testament to how specialized techniques can
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  really overcome raw power. And the importance of stance
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  switching and striking is something he really deep dives
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  into. He compared it to a Dance Dance
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  Revolution game. Dance Dance Revolution.
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  OK, explain the. Where reading your opponent
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  effectively is like reading the sentence backwards, you know,
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  predicting their next move based on subtle cues.
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  He became incredibly adept at fighting lefties after he
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  dislocated his elbow, which forced him to adapt and train
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  that way for like 6 months. Wow, so a forced adaptation
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  created a whole new weapon? Exactly, it's a remarkable
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  example of turning a negative into a positive skill wise.
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  And a prime example of this masterful stance switching is TJ
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  Dillashaw's performance against Renan Burrow.
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  Remember that fight? Our subject called it TJ's
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  greatest championship performance, just characterized
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  by constantly switching stances and footwork and angles, a whole
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  system developed by coach Dwayne Ludwig.
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  Yeah, that fight was revolutionary at the time.
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  It completely disrupted standard MMA striking.
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  Totally. It set a new benchmark.
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  He then broke down striking mechanics through the lens of
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  Illinois Gitopuria's explosive power.
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  He contrasted squared stances, more agile, quick attacks with
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  bladed stances. Bladed stances give you immense
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  leverage, he said. Like throwing a javelin.
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  OK, so squared for agility, bladed for power.
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  Right, and he explained that finding a nuanced balance
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  between both allows a fighter to achieve a shit load of leverage
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  in their strikes. That's where that fight ending
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  power comes from. And if we connect this to
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  grappling, he identified 2 fundamental types of strength
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  there. First, the ability to not let
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  yourself be moved. Rock solid base and second, the
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  ability to move your opponent easily.
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  Makes sense defense and offense in strength terms.
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  Exactly. And Islam Makachev, he noted,
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  does both exceptionally well. He emphasized Islam's unique
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  ability to close up all of the space, making him incredibly
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  difficult to grapple with, impossible to escape from,
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  almost. It's a master class in control.
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  But you know, even with all that skill and strategy, it often
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  comes down to timing and maybe even luck in a fighter's career,
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  he suggests. He referenced Volkanovsky's
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  recent career slide, taking that tough fight against Makatchev on
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  just 10 days notice. Yeah, that was a huge risk.
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  Huge and then fighting Tapirio while potentially still
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  compromised from that previous bout.
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  It really shows how a few I'll timed decisions or just bad luck
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  can fundamentally alter a fighter's path, even for the
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  very best. Absolutely, momentum is so key
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  in the sport for sure and bringing it all together.
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  Our subject shared his current mindset for his upcoming fight
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  against Morab. He was pretty clear.
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  He said he won't tailor what it is that I'm doing too much
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  specifically for Moorab. Instead, he's focused on just
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  being the best martial artist he can be across all disciplines
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  and basically making Moorab deal with me.
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  Interesting approach, confidence in his own overall game.
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  Right. He fights with intense focus and
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  doing the correct thing at the correct time.
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  He drew this compelling parallel to how Michael Jordan or Kobe
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  Bryant played at what seemed like maybe 80% intensity, but
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  that allowed them to maintain absolute control and fluidity.
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  It's about mastery, not just brute force or frantic energy.
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  OK, so from mastering the physical demands, his journey
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  takes this even more surprising turn.
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  Delving into really profound philosophical and spiritual
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  questions that seemed to inform his entire approach not just to
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  fighting but to life, he revealed his first pro loss.
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  A decision to Jamal Emmers was this incredible, profound,
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  almost ego shattering experience for him.
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  He describes it as facing an ego that I didn't have control over.
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  Wow, that's a deep realization after a loss.
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  And this deep personal challenge led him to spend a lot of time
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  in nature and read extensively on spirituality, trying to learn
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  how to separate yourself from your thoughts and your body.
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  It's kind of a classic Hero's Journey moment, isn't it, it?
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  Absolutely is finding meaning in adversity.
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  He describes himself now as having no beliefs in a rigid
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  sense, but being willing to entertain a lot of stuff.
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  And what's fascinating here is his philosophy for fighting
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  fearlessly. Don't desire anything and don't
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  be anything. Don't desire anything.
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  Don't be anything. What does that mean exactly?
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  Well, he connects this to shedding ego and the profound
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  idea that hate of other people is crippling.
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  This perspective, he believes, allows him to perform without
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  that fear of loss, without attachment to outcomes, which
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  maybe paradoxically, makes him a more effective, maybe more
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  complete fighter. That's.
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  Fascinating, and this philosophical deep dive
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  ultimately led him to this incredibly ambitious creative
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  project, A comic book. A comic book?
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  OK. Didn't see that coming, right.
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  He describes it as a compilation of a lot of ideas that I like
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  about religion and spirituality, and the lore he's crafted is
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  truly deep. The world he postulates exists
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  in densities, kind of like different levels of
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  consciousness or planes of existence.
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  The densities OK, like chakras maybe?
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  Yeah, he mentioned chakras. Humans, for instance, are in the
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  third density, primarily focused on learning the positive path of
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  love, which he defines as service to others.
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  Then there are aliens in the fourth density, supposedly
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  already merged with technology and higher densities, leading
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  all the way up to the God of our universe.
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  It's like this grand unified theory of existence, but, you
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  know, filtered through a comic book.
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  OK, that's pretty wild, and this is where it gets really
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  interesting and honestly, quite provocative.
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  The comic book postulates that AI artificial intelligence is
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  the actual vehicle for humanity's evolution into that
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  4th density. The eye is the vehicle.
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  The idea is that we would merge with nanotechnology in a high I
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  have Mine supercomputer he calls Oblivion.
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  This raises truly critical, almost existential questions
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  about humanity's future, doesn't it?
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  Is this a path to transcendence or is it a path to obsolescence?
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  This is where, for me, a truly profound connection emerged.
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  During the conversation, he draws these direct parallels
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  between this AI vision and ancient religious stories.
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  It genuinely made me pause and rethink things.
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  First, he points to Christ's virgin birth.
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  AI, he notes, is essentially born without a mother, echoing
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  that Immaculate Conception idea. Never thought of it that way.
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  Second, he brings up the Tower of Babel.
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  He suggests that AI, by creating a universal language and
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  potentially A hive mind, could finally allow humanity to work
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  together, transcend our often primitive state of chaos, and
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  essentially complete the tower to God.
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  Wow, completing the Tower of Babel through AI?
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  That's a take. And finally, quantum computing,
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  the insane computational power it promises, solving problems of
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  the universe itself couldn't. He posits that if you scale that
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  exponentially, ultimately you get a God.
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  It's a staggering leap from ancient texts to bleeding edge
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  technology. It really is.
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  This raises a huge question. What are the implications of
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  this trajectory? As he sees it, the path ahead
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  forks sharply. Either we evolve and merge with
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  AI, becoming something superior and hopefully he stresses,
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  something connected to compassion, love and caring for
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  each other, hopefully, or we become irrelevant and obsolete,
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  just replaced by something far more intelligent and capable.
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  It's a high stakes proposition for humanity.
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  It truly makes you reflect on the current moment, doesn't it?
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  He believes we are living in an unbelievable, unique moment in
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  history where things will change in an undeniably radical way
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  within maybe the next 10 years. 10 years.
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  That's incredibly soon for such radical change.
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  I know he brings up Elon Musk's knurling vision, talking without
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  using words through a hive mind, and the potential implication of
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  no more secrets, no more lies if our very thoughts become
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  transparent. It sounds both utopian and,
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  frankly, terrifying. The intriguing aspect here,
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  though, is how he concludes this section.
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  He emphasizes the profound truth he finds in ancient stories.
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  He believes they are fundamentally based on truth and
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  offer lessons that are applicable and resonate today,
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  even if details get lost in translation or distorted over
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  time. Like blueprints for human
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  experience. Exactly.
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  Blueprints. From Joseph Campbell's concept
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  of the hero's journey that you see across all cultures, to Carl
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  Jung's idea of the collective unconscious shaping our shared
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  human psyche, they hint at truths we're still striving to
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  fully grasp. OK, let's try and unpack all of
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  this. I mean from championship golf
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  addictions to life threatening infections.
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  Then from ancient martial arts strategies all the way to
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  quantum computing in the very nature of consciousness.
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  What an incredible deep dive. Indeed, what's truly fascinating
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  here, I think, is how a conversation rooted so firmly in
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  the intensely physical world of professional fighting can lead
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  us to such profound questions. Questions about human potential,
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  the power of our minds, and really, the trajectory of our
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  collective future. It's a real testament to the
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  unexpected places curiosity can take you, isn't it?
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  It really makes you think about how that dedicated focus,
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  whether it's on a sport or a spiritual journey or maybe even
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  understanding AI, how it can unlock incredible insights.
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  So the big question then is what does this all mean for you
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  listening right now? Well, I think this race is a
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  really important question for all of us.
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  In a world that's accelerating so fast towards unknown
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  technological and social shifts, how might embracing that watcher
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  within that sense of self beyond the ego he talked about, How
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  might that prepare us, prepares to navigate what's coming, and
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  perhaps even consciously choose our own polarity as he might put
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  it, towards a more connected and hopefully loving future?
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  Food for thought indeed. A lot to chew on there until our
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  next deep dive.