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Carolina Hurricanes' Playoff Drive: Offense Challenges, Power Play Revamp, and Trade Speculation · stormTRacker Podcast | Carolina Hurricanes & NHL Hockey

• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Well, after back-to-back wins on the road, the Carolina Hurricanes are feeling pretty good these days.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: In fact, they've moved into second place in the Metro and started to put a little bit of space between them and the New Jersey Devils.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: But you know, the Canes have got some challenges still and there's some areas that they need to work on if they want to continue to move up in the standings.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: And, of course, joining me today to talk about what they need to do and some of the numbers that are suggesting they've got some serious work to do on the offensive side, of course, erin Manning and Katie Barber Ladies, hi there Well as.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I mentioned.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: You know this is great that the Canes have gone on a bit of a run.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: They're 8-3-1 in their last 12 games.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: They're playing much, much better.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: They're definitely starting to show some life in terms of the offensive side of the game as well, but we know that there are some players that are underperforming.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: We also know that the stats are suggesting that they need to do a lot better on the offensive side of the game, and I thought I'd hand it over to you, Katie, to kick things off.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Well, if you've listened to the podcast before, y'all out there know that I'm a stats person.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I like seeing what the numbers say and trying to translate it into what conclusions can be drawn about the team.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: And recently my curiosity has tended in the direction of expected goals.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Because if you ever look at that chart, it always looks like the canes are doing fantastic.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: They are at the top, usually number one, but if not number one, top three in the league for expected goals, because their style of offense is to get the puck in and to create opportunities and to put pucks on net.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: And it's just.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: It makes a whole lot of sense.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: So the Canes, the Canes are up there with creating offense.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: And so if you look on hockey viz, for example, on the expected goals chart, the bottom access tells you how many goals that they are creating offensively expected goals, and then the vertical axis is telling you in inverted order how many expected goals are created against them on defense, and they're always in that top quadrant.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: It's signature canes hockey they create lots of opportunities and they suppress the other team's opportunities.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: It looks fantastic, they're up there with the best teams in the league.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: But then there's another chart that you look at on HockeyBiz and it is what they call the finishing and goaltending chart and it is actual goals scored based on expected goals.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: And the defensive you know side has been fine.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: They haven't been quite as stalwart as they have been in past seasons.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: But what really got my attention was the offensive numbers, because the Canes are only scoring about 90 goals for every 100 expected goals, which is one of worst.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Only teams like San Jose and the New York Islanders have a worse rate on scoring according to expected goals, and so there is a big finishing problem with the Hurricanes that they need to get worked out Because if their scoring dries up they're going to repeat the same old mantra once we get to the playoffs of great team can't score.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Well for sure, and the ability for the Canes to out-shoot the opposition has been one of their calling cards.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: We haven't seen it as much this year.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I think recently we've seen those shot numbers a little closer, but definitely they love to get a lot of shots on net.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: They like to get it to the point, get shots in where they can get rebounds and get other opportunities in that high-danger area.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: But, as you say, they're not scoring on those situations.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: And in particular, I mean we've looked at folks like Ajo and Svechnikov and they seem to be really struggling.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're definitely struggling.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: I think Svechnikov is almost a negative seven on goals versus expected goals which is incredibly high.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: The next closest is Ajo, who's a negative three point something as far as expected goals versus goals.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: So, uh, those are two guys that the canes have to have working and firing, and it's been a puzzle.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: We we kind of expected.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Ajo does start the season slow, but we're halfway through the season.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: This is no longer a slow start and right he's still, he's still close, if not there, at point per game player.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: But a lot of his points have come on the power play or have come in, like we saw against Chicago, in overtime or six-on-five situations or shorthanded situations.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: It's been everything except five-on-five and that's the bread and butter of the canes.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: If you're not scoring five on five, you can't expect the other situations to necessarily bail you out in every, in every situation.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: So they they really need to get those two guys rolling, not just with creating chances but actually finishing chances.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, the the interesting thing there, and you know, we look at this, canes run of eight, four and one, their last 13, and we think boy this is great, in particular, winning three in a row and I know that was a big mantra of yours, erin, as well.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Yep, they're doing it by committee.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: You know we've talked about this a lot.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Sveshnikov, ajo, natchez are the three guys that really have to drive the offense.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, jarvis as well, but those three guys are critical and, frankly, I think they've all been underperforming, and in particular, ajo, despite the fact he scores the overtime winner and he sets up a great shorthanded goal the other night, I thought for the most part he was invisible and he has just not been the dominant player that we're used to.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So what about these guys?
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Natchez, svechnikov, ajo, what are you thinking?
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that we've seen some signs of improvement from Svechnikov.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: But I did notice, you know, he was doing extremely well on Stahl's wing, jordan Stahl's wing.
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: He was really helping that line produce, which is something with Stahl and Martinuk you know their production can be.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: They're one of those lines on Katie's charts that they are always at the top of the expected goals.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: They create so many chances.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: They are one of the lower finishing lines and honestly we expect that from them because that's not a line you expect to have a lot of high level finishing.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: But Rod Brindamore has kind of used both Svechnikov and occasionally Seth Jarvis, who's on that line right now, as a little bit of a cheat code to get some more offense out of that line.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: It was working great with Svechnikov.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: I thought he was coming back, you know, a little bit into form.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: And then last night against Dallas he was having a real rough game.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: I thought, you know there were some turnovers, some defensive mistakes and some times when he really should have taken a shot and didn't.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: And you know that's when you hear on a national broadcast, you know it's always interesting because the national broadcasters will sit there and say, well gosh, why didn't he take that shot.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: You know he has an open net.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: So you know, I think it's a I don't know if it's a confidence issue with Svechnikov or what's going on there, but it you know, I think that we need to see more consistency and that's a, you know, given that he's a young player, we forget, you know, age-wise, range-wise he we forget, you know, age-wise, range-wise he.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: Kk and Jack Drury are all 24 years old, so you know, they're not the oldest players in the league by any means and consistency can be a struggle for younger players.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Well, just a couple of comments on that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Last night was a terrible game for Sveshnikov.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: He had two penalties which I thought, one of them, I think in the offensive zone and so on.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: He just was not sharp at all and you know they had talked about the fact that he had had 10 hours sleep after coming in from Chicago.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So I thought this was a great thing and that he was all ready to go, and I just thought he was totally ineffective and as you say, a number of plays and forced passes and other things that I think really were not necessarily in the best interest of the Kings.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So I totally agree with you.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: It's an interesting scenario that's been going on with the stall line.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I mean Jordan's got 11 points his last 11 games so he went on a tear but they got Svetch going and now they've got Jarvis going and that's kind of interesting when you think of it because you don't really expect the offense to come from that unit.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: But they've been getting it done.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: And Svec going back with Ajo doesn't seem to work well.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: He doesn't seem to have the magic with Sebastian, for whatever reason.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And I felt like Jackson Blake was much more effective than both Ajo and Sveshnikov last night.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I thought he was making a lot of great plays on the ice, smart moves, both defensively and offensively, and that's kind of a bad statement when you have to say that the rookie guy out there and he's a good one, but he's out playing a couple of key players on the Kings.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if you saw that as well, but I really was disappointed with the work of that line and I think generally that line has been not really getting it done.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: One thing that I think is interesting with Svetch is I think he tries to model his game according to the center he's playing with, which isn't what the Canes need him to be.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: They need him to be a power forward.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: They don't need Svetch to try to be Aho, but when Svetch is playing with Stahl, stahl's game is a little bit closer to what they need out of Svetch.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: It's more of that tough in the corners, grinding, that power forward that we need.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Just Svetch has that finishing skill that Stahl doesn't have, but when he's playing, a little bit more to that type of Stahl identity instead of the Aho identity.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: I think that's part of why Svetch is more effective there.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: And if they could just tell Svetch pretend like you're playing with Stahl while you're playing with Aho, then they would start to see the results that they really need out of him, and we all know he's capable of producing.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Well, the other thing, too, is that we look at.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, one of the areas that could certainly help his confidence, and Aho as well, is on the power play.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: You know, we look at this string they've had and it's you know again, they haven't been getting the big contributions from these guys and and the power play has been a disaster.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I took a look at some interesting numbers and I thought I'd share them with you today, that that I don't really tell a story on the power play and they were talking about last night and they said, hey, they've been one for 31 and they went over three last night, so they're one for 34.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And I think you know, basically they've hardly done anything since December.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: But we look at these numbers In October their power play percentage was 29% and we remember as they kicked off the season, shane Gostaspare was just magic out there and that power play was hitting like crazy and of course Marty Natchez was really taking advantage of the power play as well.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Into November, still 25%, and they were right near the top of the league.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: So they were sitting close to the top on both power play and penalty kills.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: So they were looking good, started to slip a little bit in December.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: We started to see that towards the middle and end of December they started to struggle a little bit.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: In December we started to see that towards the middle and end of December they started to struggle a little bit and of course then Gossespierre went out, but in December still 23.7.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: These are good numbers.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: These are excellent numbers but get low to January.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: In 11 games 3.2%.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: This is a massive drop.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is not even believable, that it would go that cold.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so some of the games Ghost wasn't there, but that's just a terrible, terrible statement.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: And you know what are we thinking about this?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: How do they fix this?
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: They have to get a power play going again.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: And you know, remember some of the playoff runs they've had and the biggest thing that seemed to be the gotcha was guess what?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Power play.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So here they are again and they're struggling with power play, but they're somehow eking out these wins, sometimes great goaltending, sometimes just team effort.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: But what are we thinking about?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: The power play, erin?
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I think that it was interesting to hear the national broadcasters commenting on it last night, because it kind of there was a light bulb moment there when they were.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: They were talking about you know.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: I know that we all saw that disastrous five on three that we were all pulling our hair out about.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: You know that was just dreadful.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: But he said why aren't they attacking?
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: You know, a good power play attacks the penalty killers, forces them out of position.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: Doesn't just look for the open spaces between the penalty killers, because the penalty killers are also being very.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: You know they're moving.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: A good PK is going to move and force you out of position, just like you're going to try to do to them, and the Canes know that, because their penalty kill is excellent.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: So they know what an excellent penalty kill is going to turn around and do to them.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: You can't say that they don't have that information.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: So the light bulb for me, though, was that it goes back to something that I've criticized in the past with the Canes and their power play, and it is that, just like three on three overtime, just like five on five, just like five-on-five, the Canes value puck possession Right, and they value offensive zone time when they're in these other situations, whether it's five-on-five, getting the all-zone time and having puck possession is the most important thing.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: That's why the Jordan Stahl line is the best Canes line, because they do that the best.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: They hold on to the puck and they cycle it and they take shots.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: The shots may not go anywhere, there may not be a lot of risk involved, but they also don't get a lot of breakaways going the other direction.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: So that's you know.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: We have seen power plays from the Canes where the other team gets a shorthanded chance.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: You know that that is the one thing they don't want to do, is give up shorthanded chances.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Yes, but I think that leads to a very conservative approach where they're not moving their feet enough and they're not attacking because they don't have the attacking mindset in the rest of their offensive game.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: And that goes back to what Katie's talking about with finishing.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: You know, if they had a more aggressively attacking mindset when they have the puck in the O-zone at five on five, it wouldn't suddenly be this foreign concept on the penalty I mean the power play rather that oh hey, we have to attack.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: And, katie, I think you're the one who pointed out that they have that attacking mindset in exactly one facet of the game, and that is the penalty kill.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: That is the most exciting point.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: That is the penalty kill.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: That is the most exciting point when you see the penalty killers rushing off with the puck in the other direction, whether they manage to get a shorthanded goal or not, it's the most exciting thing because that's when they have the freedom to have that attacking mentality.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: So I thought that was interesting that they noticed that on the broadcast, that they said they're not attacking, and I thought, well, that's something that translates across the board because even at three-on-three you know which they've been very good at you know they still value that puck possession.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: They still send Jordan Stahl out to take the faceoff.
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: They still want to start with possession.
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: It's important in that scenario, it really is.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: But on the power play, you've got two minutes, you've got and each unit has.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: You know, the first unit has 90 seconds, a second unit, if they're lucky, gets 30.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: Those 90 seconds have to be a fast moving game.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: It can't be well, we're just going to hang on to the puck until you get tired, because that doesn't work.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: And to piggyback off of that, the lack of attack mentality means that they're taking a breath in between the different moments.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: So you'll see someone pass it, they'll pause, they'll dust it off, they'll take a breath, they'll look before they shoot, before they pass.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: And that breath that they're taking is allowing the defense to react and to get into those passing lanes or the goalie to get over to make a save on a shot.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: And they really need to stop taking a breath.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: And that goes right to what Aaron was saying with wanting the puck possession, not wanting to make that mistake that leads to the defense being able to get a clear no, it needs to go fast, you need to start snapping it around, you need to move your feet, you need to get the defense moving their feet and the goal not giving the goalie enough time to react, because if the defense has time to react, the goalie has time to react.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Then you're just not going to be able to score.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: And then the other thing is and we've talked about this in other areas the canes have a really weird issue with actually putting the puck on net.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: It's something like almost 40% of the chances that they take miss the net, and that's that can be a problem on the power play, because if you get a hard fetch shot that misses the net, it rims around and heads straight out of the zone and creates those, those opportunities.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Against that the team is scared to give up.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: So I think those are two of the other things that come from what you're saying, aaron not having that attacking mentality.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: They're afraid to take the hard shot because they're missing so much and they're just, they're taking that breath and giving the other team an opportunity to react to them.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: I think you're right there.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: I mean that when you, when you brought that stat up the other day, you know I think you're right there when you brought that stat up the other day that almost 40% of their unblocked shots missed the net, I started thinking well, who's in charge of the offense for the Canes?
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Do they also train the stormtroopers for Star Wars?
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: That's not true.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: These are Star Wars-level unblocked shock attempts.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: This is crazy.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: Well, I think.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just going to say here and I think you mentioned something about some drills that were used in Montreal to help some of the players get a little bit better with their shooting.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't have the exact time in front of me, but it was during a time period when the Montreal Canadiens who's my other team, of course they were having a similar issue with finishing and just not getting the goals.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: You know they were getting chances and nothing was happening.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: And on their team we'll be honest, they have some offensive guys that you can't let that happen.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: You know you've got Cole Caulfield on that team.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Line A was not there yet, but you know he's there now.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: But when you have, I mean even Nick Suzuki, he's tremendously good at getting the puck on the net.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: So if you have too many of those guys, go cold all at once.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: It's obviously something they have to fix.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: And the Montreal media reports in great detail on Habs practices and they were reporting that Martin Saint-Louis was using some shooting drills that honestly, they are the kind of things that you would use with peewee players and they were laughing at that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: They were absolutely making fun of that.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: But then Saint-Lou say that the last laugh because it worked Whenever they were doing those little small area drills.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: I you know there were jokes about a shooter tutor.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: I do not know.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say right now, I do not know that they actually went that far.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: I don't think they did.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: But the kind of drills that they were doing, these little small area close up drills where they, you know, just run and take a shot, kind of things.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: That's not the kind of thing you would normally see NHL players do, but it got them out of their funk, it got them back to being able to score at five on five, which was the problem that they were having.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Seeing how well they're doing this year, they're like probably a year ahead of schedule in terms of pushing for the playoffs.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: Whether they'll make it or not, of course, is very much up in the air with all the competition.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: But it's just incredible to me to see that those kinds of approaches that let's take it down, let's tear it down to the basic level, let's find out why so many of our shots are going wide or missing the net, you know, let's, let's work on those little skills.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: You're never too old or too professional or too much of a veteran to have the humility to say, hey, something's not working, let's fix it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: And I thought that was a great approach.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: So maybe the Canes need to do something like that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Well, you know it's, going back to basics is sometimes the way you have to get out of this.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: A couple of things on the power play from my viewpoint.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Clearly, the confidence level is at its lowest, and you know they talked about this in the game last night too, and we've been seeing this repeatedly.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Their movement is really not there, they're not flying around the ice like they did early in the season.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, you remember, they were everywhere, they were handing the puck off, going one side to the other, they were going behind the net, they were doing all kinds of things, and we're not seeing that right now.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And I put it back to confidence and that's kind of how power plays work right, they get their confidence and all of a sudden you know everything you shoot goes in the net.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: So they've got to get that confidence back.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: And I think you know your idea of back to basics is probably one of the things they've got to do.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: They've got to take a step back and they've got to start to look at, you know, just what are the things they need to be doing to try to get better opportunities and not try to wait for the perfect opportunity.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Get the puck on net, get some things happening in front, you know, get some folks blocking the goalies' eyes, get them there for rebounds and so on, and I think the Canes have not been particularly good at that lately.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Uh, and the pucks, you know it's one and done right.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So again, I think they've got to do this.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: And it takes us to the next part of the discussion, because I think this is really critical to you know how we see the canes going forward.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: You know we saw them as a 500 team for gosh a long time here, uh, over a month, and just you know, kind of win one, lose one, whatever.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: They just couldn't get anything going.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: We're seeing them win three.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Is this a harbinger of what we're going to see now?
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Are the Canes ready to start to make a move and make a run and then, if so, where do we think they're going to go in terms of the playoffs, and why don't you kick that off, katie?
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I certainly hope they're going to go on a run and that this is an indication of good things to come.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: The one thing I have noticed, though, is, if you look back at their games in January and then leading back into December, almost all of their games have been decided by one goal, and the ones that haven't been decided by one goal have been decided by a goal plus an empty net or a couple of goals.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I think they only have one or two losses in that time frame that was by more than two goals or two goals plus an empty net, and the last time that the Canes won a game by three or more goals which did not include an empty net was the islanders game back on december 17th.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: They just are making their lives so much harder than they need to, than it needs to be, because of the type of team they are now granted credit to them.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: They're not getting blown out, so they are doing the work and they are playing that full 60, regardless of whether they're ahead or behind, but I think, if they can, just like you said, what if the power play had just converted it like a 12 or 15%, not the 20-something that they did?
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: at the beginning of the season.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: They'd probably have another three wins in their pocket from January and late December.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: That would have given them an extra cushion and they'd be breathing right down the Capitals' necks for first in the Metro or first in the East.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: So it's not going to take a whole lot and if they can keep steady with the defense and the goaltending which the goaltending actually looks like it's trending up and then find that extra goal, they just need that one extra goal each game.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Start with the power play, move to 5 on 5, expand from there.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: I think they're in a really, really good spot to make a big push and to at least enter the four nations break feeling good about themselves and then, other than our guys who are participating come out of the break rested and raring to go to make that stretch run to the playoffs.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Karen, I agree with that.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Excuse me, I think I was saying all along that I wanted to see them win three games in a row and they have and we can celebrate.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: They weren't all pretty wins, but they won three games in a row and I think that you know there was a tone in one of Brad's Brendan Moore's media availabilities recently where he said he was, he was being a little more balanced.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: I think the wins helped that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: But he said we are doing all this, you know, and we're not playing our best.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: You know, it's encouraging that we're starting to win games when we still have room to improve.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: And I think he said that probably I don't remember which game that was after, but it was one of the games where Stahl had done a good bit of the scoring and he said we need the other two lines to get involved, the other two of the top nine, because I know that no one's really pushing for the bottom line to do anything, but the other two lines in the top nine really need to be involved.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: And then what happened after that is that in the last couple of games we're starting to see the Robinson, kk and HS line come back.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: And when you consider how good that line was for a stretch of 15 games in the beginning of the season.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: It would be incredibly good for the Canes if that line can find its magic again.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: I know we're seeing Natchez getting more and more comfortable.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: He had two assists last night.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: I think he likes playing with those two players because they do all of that net front, battling behind the net, scoop out the puck.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: You know he doesn't have to be trying to do that to.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: You know the turnover from Robinson on the first goal last night.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: He forced the turnover.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: And then you know, it just helps Natchez to have somebody who just essentially gets him the puck, you know.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: So I'd love to see that line, but I still feel like to get above 500 hockey consistently.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: We're right back into that conversation about Sebastian Ajo.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: He does need to kick it into a higher gear.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: However, whether they need to keep trying different line mates with him, whether they need to, you know, I just I don't know what the answer is, but it needs to happen.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Well, what do you, what do you think I mean?
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: what's going on with him.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Before we move on to that, I just want to say something that struck me with Rod's comments about KK last night is if he says I want KK to play more of a straight line game like he did last night and I was thinking about that because normally you hear like a north-south game, but he said a straight line game Natchez is such a creative player, like you said, aaron Robinson is the one that gets in there, creates the turnovers, gets the puck back out to the D high or to Natchez.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: If Natchez gets the puck, he has opportunities to create.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: So I think what Rod's saying by that straight line game from KK is go to the net, nature's will find you, or when Robinson's digging it out of the corner, robinson will find you go to the
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: net be more assertive.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: If KK can be an assertive pucks on net go to the net type player.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: It's going to elevate the threat of that line because then the defenders don't just have to worry about Natchez as the primary offensive threats.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: There's other places that that threat can come from and spreads out the defense a little bit more.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: So I just wanted to, because what you were talking about with that line getting more dangerous, I think that will be a big key in how it goes forward, because that really struck me with what Rod said last night.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Well, even the other night and I had mentioned this on X that I thought Kokuniemi played a solid game in Chicago limited ice time, but he did play a solid game.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: He was noticeable and of course he got a goal.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: But he was noticeable out there and he was making things happen and I saw him on the boards.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: He was working hard.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: He was coming out with pucks and he did this again last night.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: He was coming out of scrums with the puck and doing good things with it and also really attending to his defensive responsibilities.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And I think you know he's a guy and we've talked about him to death.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: But if he can get some confidence, I believe that you know he can be an asset for the Hurricanes and they're going to need him, of course, going forward.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: But back to this thing on Ajo, and I think you're absolutely right, aaron, if Sebastian Ajo doesn't kind of get back into his mojo and we know what he's like when he's really on his game he's involved and he wants to make a difference.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: We're not seeing as much of that this year and we wonder is there something going on?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Is he injured?
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Is there something around Ajo?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: We don't know.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: They've tried a lot of different line-mates with him.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: What do we think?
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: Well, there were some conversations on X about whether, because they were playing in Chicago, because it was the first time they were playing against Devo Taravainen, that he just hasn't had somebody so far, since Taravainen has left, that he has that instant chemistry with, you know, teravine and Naho not necessarily scoring as much at five on five as people thought, but it really didn't matter because whether they were scoring or not, they were impacting the game and the way they played together really impacted the game.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: And I kind of see that.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: I kind of see that he may have tried him with Svechnikov.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: He does have some of that chemistry with Jarvis, for sure, and I think that ultimately, seth Jarvis is not going to stay on Jordan Stahl's line.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: He's been on the top line for a good bit and I think he'll be back up there as soon as Will Carrier comes back.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: But it's just he needs that person that is, someone who thinks like he does, a little bit a little bit, and he doesn't have that right now.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: It's the first time in a long time that he hasn't, so I don't know if that's anything, but it's possible.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I think for sure that he's missing Tara Viner I don't think there's any question about that, and it might be personal and it might be, you know, play as well.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I mean those guys were.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: You know as well.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I mean those guys were.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: You know they were incredible.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: As they called them, the cherubs.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: They were an incredible combination and you know, I remember watching some highlights of some of the things they did, you know, three, four or five years ago.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It was just incredible.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: The magic that they produce, and we know how good Tara Vinen is in terms of setting players up.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: He's he's one of the best in the league when he's on his game, and we've seen some of that with Chicago this year, but I think that's been part of it.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I think that's been a big change for him, and you know, sometimes we don't think about.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: you know those kinds of things right.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are professional players, they should be right above and so on.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of personal elements that come into it and I think you know he and Jarvis heading to, you know, the Four Nations tournament, that might be a good thing, you know he's going to be back.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Ajo is going to be with the best in the Four Nations.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: He's going to be up against incredible competition and maybe it's going to give him a chance to kind of kick his game into another gear.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: We'll have to wait and see, but if we look at the cage right now, sorry, go ahead, Go ahead, Katie.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: I just want one more point about Ajo.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: The other thing is that I think and this is something the coaching staff needs to look into Whenever I look at shot totals at the end of games, usually Svetch is up there.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Burns is definitely up there.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: It's kind of problematic when Burns is like the second most prolific shooter for the entire team.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: In a game, Ajo's usually sitting there.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: One shot two shots yeah.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I know he likes to be a distributor, I know he wants to be the play creator.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: But just like Rod praised KK with that straight line game, I think Ajo needs to bring a little more straight line to his game and shoot the puck more, because he has a really good shot and he is handcuffing himself, his line and the team as a whole If he is not making the defense and the goalie have to respect his shot and the quality of the shot he has.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, that overtime goal he scored was beautiful.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: It just slipped right past the post into the net.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: More of that, please.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: That's the kind of ajo that is dangerous and that will strike fear into opposing defenses.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: So you know, that's really what I want to see.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I want to see more four, five, six shots on goal from him every single game.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you think about it, you know, with Ajo, he's a guy that, from my viewpoint, has not been as influential in the play, and I think there's something we're maybe not taking into consideration, and that is that, as the Canes have been built and as we know, the other lines weren't really as much of a defensive concern for the opposition, and so they could really pour a lot of their defensive acumen and line matching or whatever the case may be, up against the Ajo line, and I think that's been part of it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I think he's been giving above average coverage simply because the other lines were not worth the effort from the opposition team.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: In that regard, they didn't have anyone kind of striking fear into them that they might be coming out and scoring some goals.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: So I think there's something else there.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: We just have to kind of think about that, and I think it's a good segue into the next part of this, which is, you know, as we look at the Hurricanes and we look at how they're built right now and you know, we see them starting to maybe they're going to start to do a run, maybe we're going to see them pick up their play and improve their overall position how do we feel about them as they then head into the playoffs?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Are they built the right way?
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Do they have the right kind of combination of players?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Do they need to make some moves?
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: And where does that sit?
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Do you want to start it off, erin?
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: Sure, I think that there's always been this negativity out there about can a Rod Brindamore team actually go far in the playoffs?
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: And this isn't just people on Twitter, this is also national broadcasting and people when they comment on the Canes, especially during the playoffs well, can we get this team?
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: Is this team going to take the next step, especially during the playoffs?
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: Well, can we get this team?
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Is this team going to take the next step?
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, to a certain extent, when they've, you know, the only couple of times they've made it to the Eastern Conference Final, they've been swept.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: So it's a fair question to ask can this team go far?
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: And someone phrased it this way that you know there are teams that are built to get to the playoffs and then there are teams that are built for the playoffs.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: The Canes have been a team for the last six years, which is incredible, that has gotten to the playoffs.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: They are built to get to the playoffs yes, through the playoffs, though I think it's going to require some changes.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: It's going to require some changes, just systematically.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: To a certain extent, like you know, with all this stuff we've been talking about finishing, that can't be where they are.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: It's going to be.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: They need.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: They need changes on the power play.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: They need to figure out what's wrong with it and kick it back into high gear, and it may be a matter of tweaking the units a little bit or getting creative with some of the structure.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're going to have to work on that, and you know they are, you know they already are.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: But the other thing is, you know, are they built for the playoffs?
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: What are they missing?
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: You know we've had lots of conversations about the 2C situation, and I'm sure we're going to get to that here in a minute too, anyway, so I'll leave that aside for the moment.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: The one thing that you know.
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: I've had a couple of different things.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: One is, I still question whether they have right now, this year, do they have the goaltending?
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: And it's not because I think there's anything wrong with Freddie Anderson and Piotr Kuczykow.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: I think Kuczykow is showing signs of getting better and better by the minute, and he's going to continue to do that.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: He might be in a position next year where we have no questions about playoff goaltending.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: There's still been some ups and downs with him this year, though, and so I think it's fair to say if he's the guy, is he enough?
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: The only reason we have to ask if he's the guy, is he enough, though, is because of Freddie.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: When Freddie is healthy and playing well, you know he's got best in caliber numbers.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: He's great, but can he stay healthy?
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: And that's the question.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: So I don't know if that question can be answered.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: Certainly, they're not going to make a move with goaltending now that they have Freddie back.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: It's not going to happen.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: So I don't know if that is just the situation and the reality.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: They're going to go as far as this tandem can take them and that's going to have to be okay, but for me, the other area that needs to be improved is the fourth line yeah, I don't think the fourth line is heavy enough when you look at um, I mean, and it depends on, I know, when carrier comes back, if we'll, if they put carrier on the fourth line.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: That's a different line.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: They have players, they can move around and make it a heavier fourth line, but you can't have we've had a line in the recent past now, not since blake was moved up to the top line, but you've had a line in the recent past now, not since Blake was moved up to the top line, but you've had a line in the recent past that was Jackson Blake, juha Jaska and Jack Drury.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: These are not big tough players.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: No, they got switched around against Vegas because Rod Brittenmore looked at that line and said they're too small, I can't have them up against Vegas's fourth line as opposed.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: So if they're seeing that in the regular season games, they have to be thinking about what they're going to do with that in the playoffs.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: What do you think, katie?
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: And that just kind of becomes the big question mark of are the players that the Canes have not only suited for a playoff run, but are they currently correctly slotted in the role that they are best able to fill?
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: And it comes down to ice time and usage and that sort of thing.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I also go back to what you said about Ajo not having that duo with him.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: That he really reads and connects with and so I wouldn't be surprised.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: I know we're going to talk the 2C thing later about that upgrade, but I wouldn't be surprised if the priority is actually a scoring winger that they feel could come in and vibe well with Ajo.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: And you know Gensel came in and did well, but I there was there was a lot of like there were some empty net goals and some other things.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: It worked.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: But I feel like there there's somebody out there that still that that Ajo needs to click with, and it was like a most like a 90% click with Gensel.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Is there somebody out there that can have a better vibe with him to help create that offense that they need?
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: That would be what I think needs to happen, because if the fourth line gets bullied, the fourth line gets bullied and but it's not going to make a difference if your fourth line is the one doing the bullying, if your first line is not putting the buck in the net.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Exactly, the thing is, as the Canes are constructed now, I still think there is a path to the Stanley Cup.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: It's just very narrow and they have to have everything go right for them.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: It's still a really, really good team.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if they can execute their game plan the way that they envision it, they can beat anybody.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: But if they're not on top of their game and they're missing in some of the small details, then that's when they get swept or run out of the playoffs.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Agreed.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're both right.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: For sure, they're going to have to add some players, and we'll talk a little bit about that now as we get into a discussion on what we're seeing out there.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: But ultimately, I think the Canes are going to have to.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: You know, they're just going to have to get the kind of performance from their players that they would expect to get.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: So the top players are going to have to be their top players.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I think the goaltending boy if the indication last night was anything of how Piotr- is going to feel now yeah, he was amazing last night and he may be this may be again.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: It's like last year.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: He's not having to worry about hey, I'm in goal again next game.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: You know kind of thing.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: He's got Freddie there.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Now he can concentrate.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: He didn't let in any softies.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: He made several 10-bell saves.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: He was concentrate, he didn't let in any softies, he made several 10-bell saves.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: He was outstanding.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And, as we know, if Freddie gets going the way he can and Piotr gets hot, this goaltending can take them a long, long, long way For sure.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: So to me that's one of the biggest things that can drive the Canes deep into the playoffs.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I mean goaltending.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: As we know, we've talked about this with Vasilevsky and other goalies who simply won the day when it gets into the playoffs, and maybe the goaltending can be a big part of this.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: And if they can get their power play going, I mean obviously again, it's those top guys who've got to get their game going and then they'll be much more dangerous.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: But you know what I wanted to pick up on that discussion about the center spot, and it's time for us to discuss the rumor mill.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: So this week, of course, there has been a lot of chatter and boy, we were sitting on the edge of our seats to see if something was going to happen, and actually it all kind of was fueled by some comments from Elliot Friedman, and let's listen to what he had to say.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I do think, now that I've heard about it a little bit more.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I think Carolina's around there.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I think the Rangers are still around there.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: So, as you can hear, elliot suggests that among the teams that are currently discussing JT Miller's possible potential opportunity to join their teams, of course the Rangers at the top, but the Hurricanes right in the mix, and he stated very clearly that the Hurricanes were one of the teams that he thought could be a serious contender, jt Miller.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: A lot of folks have different views, I know.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Erin you've got a particular view.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: We'll pick that up in a minute.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I just want to pass on a couple of stats that I think are interesting with Miller.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: And sure, he's definitely got some emotion issues and you know, he reminds me a lot about a guy that we used to have and who I think played extremely well for us, and that's Tony D'Angelo.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: He's a fiery guy, he wears his emotions on his sleeve.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: But this guy, his numbers are amazing.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: In the last four years, if you look at the stats that he's played, in 242 games he's got 284 points.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: So I mean, that's an amazing number and a plus 40.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: By comparison, Ajo, in 232 games, had 237 points.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I guess the comment that I would raise here we know that Miller is an offensive juggernaut.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: He can drive big numbers, he's done that for sure, and he can score.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: The concept that we played with was wouldn't it be interesting if the Canes had two Ajo-type quality players at the center?
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Ice roll and what the difference that would make to the Hurricanes?
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: So whenever you think about adding a guy of the quality of a JT Miller, of course it changes all the rules for you, notwithstanding the person, notwithstanding anything else, just the capability that this man has.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about that.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: What do we think about potentially adding a guy like JT Miller and what do we think it's going to cost if the Canes can make that happen, Erin?
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: Well, the cost factor has been going all over the place and I know that most people agree that it's going to take a couple of roster players.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Just from the cap space perspective, the Canes can't really make the deal based just on futures, unless because we were talking about Eric Tulsky here.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: I never rule out the possibility that he has a way to do things that would not require him to give up as much as people think because this is Eric Tulsky.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: So it would probably cost Kokaniemi and Roslevic, it would probably cost a prospect and it would probably cost a draft pick.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: Corey Prondman, who I don't particularly think is very accurate in his assessments, thinks that the prospect would be someone like Nikita Artemonov.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: I don't think so.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: I think Artemonov is too high caliber of a prospect for the Canes to hand it over in exchange for a center who is, after all, going to be 32 years old in March.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: So this is something that I know that we've had our disagreements about whether Miller would be a good fit for the team.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: Personality stuff, the locker room impact that's a concern.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: I don't think you can brush that aside.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: But for me the bigger concern is the value of the contract over the five years that it still extends.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: He's being paid $8 million a year for the next five years.
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: He has a full no-move clause and a no-trade clause that kicks in as well.
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: So we're talking about somebody who you have to buy him out to get rid of him within a couple of years, so right at the time that his biggest age-related regression may be kicking in, he may become a very expensive problem to handle if his numbers do fall off the way they generally do.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: Now some people on the HF Boards website were sharing an article about age-related regression in forwards and how dramatically they drop off at certain points.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: You know below, you know over age 30, really starting younger than we think, and you kind of to me.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: I think there's that veteran effect where a player continues to be very effective.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: Even if his scoring touch has gone down, he's still really savvy about getting to the net.
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: He's still.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: He's got all those moves figured out.
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: But this was a very well-researched and very stat-heavy article that was shared.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: That showed that you know just how much they drop off and why it's not a good idea in general to take on or to give long contracts to forwards over the age of 29 or 30.
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: Sure, the article was written by somebody you may have heard of.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: His name is Eric Tulsky.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: He wrote this article for SB Nation several years ago.
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: So I look at this whole situation.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: The chatter is there.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: Are the Canes going to be interested?
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: Of course they're going to look at it because they're always in on everything and they always look at it.
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: But when it comes to that moment of pulling the trigger, I have to ask seriously, that moment of pulling the trigger, I have to ask seriously is Eric Tulsky going to take on that contract for this team, given his own research into the impact of age-related regression on forwards?
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: And he has a companion article about the defenseman too.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: But that gets into more than just scoring.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: So it's way beyond our scope here.
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: But this is a man who knows what age-related regression does to players and has studied it in some detail and has shared those thoughts publicly.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: I just don't see it.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: So we'll see.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: What do you think, katie?
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I definitely don't have as deep of an insight there, but my instincts say that the only thing going for Miller as far as what the Canes need is the offense, he's not a fit for the rest of the Canes system.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: He's not a 200 foot player.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: He'd have to be babysat by somebody.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: You'd have to worry about you know things going the other way.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: And if you're trading again, if you're trading Coke and yummy, you worry, have to worry about you know things going the other way.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: And if you're trading again, if you're trading Coke and Yemi, you worry about the size of the Canes and their effectiveness in the playoffs if you don't have those big bodies to put out there when needed, outside of Stahl and Martinuk.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: So it trickles beyond just Miller and the scoring he would provide.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: It's the defense, it's the fit in the locker room, which I think is a bigger deal, because the Canes have a very niche type of personality that they're looking for to fit with their team and work with the team, and if that fit isn't there, they're more than happy to move on from that player.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: Just ask the ones that have been traded that are off another local house now, sure.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: So I just all of those factors come out.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: I just don't see how you have the contract situation, the locker room situation, the defensive impact, the getting smaller in other areas of the forward court.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: It's just a whole bunch of other negatives that line up to say that this would not be a wise move for the Canes and one other thing, if I can piggyback off of that, katie, my own personal thoughts about the matter aside, I do think that one of the serious questions about an offensive guy like jt miller is will that translate to the carolina hurricanes?
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: This is not a this is not a question of Miller's skill, this is not a question of his obvious ability to generate offense.
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: But you know, you look at Vincent Trocek who was held to 51 points on the Canes and then went to be 70, 75,.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: You know, in New York, Some of the criticisms of the Canes' offensive systems in that the sheer weight of defensive responsibility that is placed on our forwards that keeps them from hitting those eye-popping numbers offensively.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think that Sebastian Ajo would remain a point-per-game player, merely a point-per-game player in another system.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: I think he would be far beyond that.
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: One of the ongoing discussion points we've had about Martin Natchez is is he going to resign with the Canes or is he going to go somewhere where he can be a hundred point guy?
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: Because there's no question that in a system that doesn't expect you to be handling half of the defensive work you know on the ice, maybe he could be.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: So does JT Miller come in and remain a 90 to 100 or even point per game score, or does he drop off significantly and at that point all those other questions you raised, Katie, become a much bigger concern.
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: It's not like the Canes wouldn't benefit from having a 60-point center, but would they benefit from having a 60-point center who gives up 55 goals the other way?
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Is that a?
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: realistic question.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: A couple of comments, and I think sometimes we don't have all the information.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's the whole thing.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: We don't know a lot about JT Miller, but I'll tell you a little bit about him.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: First of all, he's 6'1 and 218.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: He's not a little guy.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: He's a solid player that's going to go in and he can muck it up with anybody.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Let me read what the hockey forecaster said about this young man.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: The supremely versatile forward has blossomed into a consistent offensive force.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: After several seasons of teasing teams with a skill and size, his off the puck play has improved and he's gotten better at using his size to good effect in winning board battles.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: He can play anywhere up front and in any situation, and is also a rare forward who can play more than 20 minutes a game on a regular basis.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: This guy is a player.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: He's a player.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: There's no question.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: That is another question, though, because when you talk about the ice time, the way that Brindamore distributes ice time among his forwards is not like it is on other teams.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: Will Miller play 20 minutes a night.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I don't think it's saying that he would necessarily be playing he can though I think that's what they're saying.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: This guy can play in all situations.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: He can play big minutes, he can play tough minutes.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I guess where I'm going with this is this, and it's kind of what I've been saying all along there isn't a perfect fit for the Hurricanes.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, we've struggled to find any possible centers that could come in and make a material difference for any period of time One of the things about Miller that's enticing.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Of course, he does have a contract with term on it, and this is something that Tulsky likes.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: So you've got, yes, he's over 30.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: That's true, but he does have a contract with some term.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: And if you look at the center availability out there and this is the biggest single problem if you think that the Canes can go and win a cup with their existing team and the Coconemi is now going to blossom into this great center then that's fine, no move is necessary.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: But if you feel like the Canes are going to have to improve at center and we've talked about this a lot your choices aren't out there.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: Your choices for an offensive center, a top center of any form or shape, they just aren't out there, and certainly not with term, they're not weighing, but I think that the problem here, too, though, is that we're looking at a situation where the Canucks may be their own worst enemy in this trade.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: They've had, they've definitely been.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: You know there's lots been out there in the media about this, and that they were.
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: First, it was Pedersen or Miller, and then, you know, when 31 teams called to ask about Pedersen, they backed off and said no, no, actually, we just want to move Miller.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: And you know, when 31 teams called to ask about Pedersen, they backed off and said no, no, actually, we just want to move Miller.
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: Now they are actually putting the brakes on it being a fast.
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: You know it was going to be.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: It was going to happen immediately.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: They was going to go to the New York Rangers and then and then all of that allegedly fell apart.
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: So what?
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: What?
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: I think, what Tulsky, what the general managers of these other teams are looking at, that's Drury in New York.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: I guess you know what they're going to do is they're going to say, okay, we're not paying top dollar mid-season for a player you feel that you have to move.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, for sure so then the Canucks are coming back and kind of saying, well you know, we might just wait and ride out the season and move them in the summer.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Possible.
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: If that happens, though and I know that you're concerned about the Canes finding anybody, if that happens in the summer, you're talking about a picture of other centers potentially being available and the canes having a boatload of cap space to work with.
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: That's something I expect eric telsky, with his incredible intelligence, to be all over and to be saying do we want to make a move right now for this player, given the drawbacks of his age and everything else, or do we want to get through this playoff round with the guys that we have again, knowing that Burns is about to be finished, knowing that Nikitian is coming next year?
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: I don't know that they would rush to add Miller unless they could get him at a bargain, and they might be able to do that.
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: It's possible because of the Canucks putting themselves in this position, but I don't see them surrendering more than they're prepared to trade, and the question of Kokaniemi and Roslovic is pretty much, I mean, I think that's a given.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: If that was all it took, they would definitely do it.
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: They're not going to give up prospects that they want to keep.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: They're not going to give up prospects that they want to keep.
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: They're not going to give a first round draft pick.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: It's an overpay for a situation where the team the Canucks are in the desperate situation.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: They're the ones that have to make the deal.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It's not the other way around and then on top of that, miller has the control.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: He gets to say where he goes.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: He has the control.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I guess the comment is this If we next week, if a deal is done and JT Miller is playing for the Hurricanes, I'm going to be a pretty happy guy.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: I know, and even if they give up the first-round pick, the first-round pick at 30 or 31,.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Who cares?
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: They've got tons of those guys, they've got lots of prospects.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: That's not a big deal, so I don't really worry about that.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Now they could do it and pick up another player.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Now one of the guys I like is this, nils Hoaglander, who's had a terrible year.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I think they could get Hoaglander thrown in and then they got another guy that can help the forward ranks.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: But having said all this, I think you're right.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Adam Gold told us the other day it's not happening.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: So that's the Bible.
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: So we don't have to worry about it.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: I think we all agree that Gold may not know, but yeah, I thought I'd throw that in there, because Adam did suggest that he wasn't going to go.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Look, I don't necessarily think it's going to happen either.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: It's a good, fun discussion to get into.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: He is an excellent player all things considered.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Whether he lasts three or four or five years.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: We haven't got a clue.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: He could be just as good in four years as he is today.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: We don't know that.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Look at Jordan Stull he's still trucking along and he's doing some good work.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So these guys, I guess now they are in better shape longer.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: They do different things now in terms of their care, and so we don't know.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: But having said that, I still think the Canes need to show up at center.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: And I think they need to do it this year if they're going to do anything at all.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: So, and I think they need to do it this year if they're going to do anything at all.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: So the next guy we're going to talk about is going to be Brock Nelson, so I wanted to put this on.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: This is Frank Cervelli from Daily Faceoff.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: He did a big piece on Brock Nelson recently and at the end of the piece he talked a little bit about the Hurricanes as being a possible suitor.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to what Frank has to say.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: I think Brock Nelson would make some sense in Carolina.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: We just talked about Carolina and JT Miller.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I think he's probably again more than Carolina would want to spend.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: They didn't even give up a first for Gensel last year.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that they'd be giving it up for Brock Nelson, but they do have the prospects to be in the mix but they do have the prospects to be in the mix.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Frank basically saying that he's not sure the Canes would want to do a deal for Nelson with the Islanders, simply because he thinks it would be a good move.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: But would they be willing to give up as much as the Islanders would be looking for?
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Certainly, he felt like the Canes had the prospect base to do it, but he wasn't sure that they'd be willing to go that far in a deal, he said.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, they didn't even throw a first-round pick in the deal for Jay Cancel last year.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: So in any case, here's a guy that three years of 30 goals, and more the last three years, of course, for Brock Nelson.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: He's a little older, he's in at 33.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: He's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: But to your point, katie, he brings a lot of size.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: He's a big man.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: He's in at 6'4", 200-plus pounds.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: He's a big guy.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: He can play.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: What do we think about the Canes doing a move to grab Brock Nelson?
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: I definitely think his game is a better fit for the Canes.
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: Now, you know it always gets a little bit tricky.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: They made it happen last year with Gensel, with somebody who was another Metro Division foe, but my experience the past little while watching trades happen is usually teams prefer to deal with teams that are not their direct competition in the division, so that could make it a little bit more tricky.
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: But the Nelson option I think just fits where the Canes are at better.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: Like you said, his contract will be up.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: If it works out, then great, keep him around for another reasonable length contract.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: It's not all the years that Miller would be around.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: After this season.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: If it doesn't work out he can go find a new home and the Canes have the cap space to build what they need to build over the offseason.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Like you said, the size is also good.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: I think the temperament also would fit the Canes better.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: The Islanders' style of play suggests that it would be an easier transition into the Canes system if he were to come over here.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: So I like this idea a lot better than I like the JT Miller suggestion.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: I like it too, katie, and I think it's for very many of the same reasons.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: I think Brock Nelson, he's going to fit right into that locker room, there's no question whatsoever.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: He has the work ethic and you know he doesn't quit on games where he doesn't think things are going well.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: You know he's going to give you exactly.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: I think he is what.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: The word that comes to mind is the word that Rod Rundemore is using all the time these days consistent.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: He plays a consistent game.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: It's just there every night.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: The effort, the execution, it's all there.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: He's much more of a Hurricanes fit to me than Miller.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: For those reasons, and I think that you know, when it comes to the difference in between Miller's offense and Nelson's offense, I don't think that's the biggest consideration, because I don't think that.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: I think that what Miller, what Miller brings is, is very like you said, katie, it's kind of narrow.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: It's one thing you know Nelson brings everything.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: He's got some good offense, he's, he's still putting up good numbers at his age and he's, and he's doing the work.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: So you put him on a team where he doesn't necessarily have to be the only guy doing some of that stuff.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: No offense, but no, I mean and there again too, you said the good thing about not having to take on the long contract I wouldn't even be surprised depending on what negotiations would happen and whether or not the Canes would be willing to move a roster player.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Maybe they would do a sign-in trade they might, and if the Islanders could facilitate that they might get a player back from the Canes.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: That will help them going forward, because they're not in the tear it down and do a full rebuild, regardless of whether their fans think that they should be.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: I know the fans want that, but they're not in that mode.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: They're not in that we're going to tear it all down and sell off everybody you know and get a full rebuild from the ground floor.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: They don't even have the prospects in the system to begin thinking about that kind of rebuild.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: But you know that's again that might be a very attractive option for the Islanders to take a roster player you know in exchange and and to and to facilitate a sign and trade with a division rival.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: So I mean, it all depends on whether it's the right fit or the right move at the right time.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: But I think that has a better chance.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: But I will agree with Tom that the one big hold up.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: The big issue is everybody is going to want Brock Nelson.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: Every contender out there is going to want Brock Nelson.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: There could be a bit of a bidding war and we all know that.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: That's when the Canes step away and say you know what?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: We're good.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: So, sadly, as much as I think that could be a really good move for the Canes, it just depends on whether they're willing to put the assets forward that it would take.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the challenge too is is you're you're looking at having to give up a roster player in any case because you've got to get the cap space You've?
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: got to somehow.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: So it's a bit of a challenge.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it would be great if they could pick up Brock Nelson and also keep Kokuniemi, because then they could roll Kokuniemi on the fourth line, which would give them some big centers to try to do some heavy lifting.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: But again, I agree with you, I like Brock Nelson.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: He's been a guy that I've always appreciated.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: He plays a solid game and he's a guy that can make things happen, and he's been a Canes killer, as I've mentioned a number of times in the past.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: So it'd be nice to get him on our team.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Anyway, those two guys I think are certainly you know their discussion points the Canes, if they're going to do something at center.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: As I've mentioned, there's not a lot of guys.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: We have talked about O'Reilly, We've talked about Nazem Kadri.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: We don't really know what's going to happen here, but certainly, as we kind of head towards the Four Nations tournament, we could see some activity.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Now, the other area that you talked about, Katie, is on the scoring side, and we had picked up a little bit of a discussion on a couple of guys, with Kraken and that's former, of course, Burakovsky, and we talked a little bit about Oliver Bjorkstrand, the maestro.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: So what are we thinking about those guys?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Do we think there's still possible fits for the Canes, or do we think we need to get something a little bit tougher?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I think that Burakovsky is probably not a fit, and that has more to do with his injury history.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: The.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: Canes need somebody who can come in and stay in, and he's just for some reason he comes in and he's just likely to.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: When, especially when games get physical, it just doesn't.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: I don't just gets hurt too bad.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: So, as good as his shot is, as much heart and effort he plays with I mean his, his actual game itself would fit the canes quite well and and he does have some of that finishing that they need, bjorkstrand would perhaps be a better option there, definitely because he is a finisher and I think that his game would work well and he'd be more likely to stay in the lineup.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: I agree, yep.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: Well, and I think Katie, as I was going to say, I think Katie's onto something with the whole.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: You know, if they don't make a move to change center before the playoffs which that does not mean they won't make one over the summer but if they decide, you know what?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: That's not the most pressing item on the table.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: We have other things we need to do and if that's the case, then I could see that they would go for.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: You know, they're going to be looking at all of the potential wingers that are available, because if you can't find somebody that fits with Ajo, then you've got a line that isn't working.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: That needs to be working.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: So yeah, but I don't know who's out there that I mean.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: We talked about the Penguins maybe having a fire sale, but I don't think there's much there no, not since they, since they said not these five players, and it's the five players everybody wants you know I would only be interested in a brian ruster or somebody like that.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: You're not getting that guy, so no, you're not so no, I agree, you know, that's the bigger challenge.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: That's the thing that we sometimes we kind of have to put back into the mix.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Players are going to be available, and if they're made available now, they may not be available in the summer.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the interesting thing, uh, and you have to and you know when you're sitting in eric's seat and he's going through these.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: You know machinations and you know what's plan a, b, c and d he he's.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: He's looking at this because, again to your point before, I think Aaron was that he's going to look at players in the summer and he's going to figure out which ones he wants to target.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of quality centers that people are willing to give up.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: That is the tough part.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: If you've got a great center, you're not about to trade them off because most teams don't have the depth to kind of fill for that person and you're not going to get much back because the team that's acquiring doesn't have the assets in the first place, right from a center perspective.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: One name that comes up.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: One name that has come up that we haven't talked about is a little too much, although I think we maybe touched on him briefly whether the Buffalo Sabres will make Dylan Cousins available.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: And that would be a very interesting move for the Canes because I think Cousins has a lot of potential and hasn't really taken off necessarily, and I don't know enough about him.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: He's a young player.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: I don't know enough about him to say whether he would or would not fit with the Canes, but that might be a move that they would actually be willing to spend some money on if they, if they thought that he was the player they wanted to get.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: So I'm all over Dylan cousins and I mentioned him previously.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: I think he's a great young player.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: He's one of the few young centers you might get.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: And that that may be more what they're thinking.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: If this doesn't, if they don't end up landing Miller and they or they don't end up landing Miller and they or they don't decide to go for Miller, whichever one it is.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: You know they might be thinking we want to build for the team that's going to be around.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: You know Nikitian's age and you know these other young Jarvis's age.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: You know they may want to be starting to build for that core and it's a it's a transitional point.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: That's why we keep saying that word transitional year.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: Right now there aren't as many older veterans on the Canes as there have been in the past and there's going to be fewer of them next year once Burns leaves.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: And speaking of Burns, just for the one thing that we didn't touch on in the trade rumors.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: I'm hearing some rumblings and it's not anything concrete, but there are some observers of the Carolina Hurricanes who are convinced that the move the Canes will make at the trade deadline is going to be for a defenseman.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: And you look at our defensive core and you say, well, why would they do that?
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: But then you can kind of see it.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: So now I don't know who they would target or who's even going to be available.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: But it's interesting to me because most people would say, well, the Canes are set on defense, they don't need a defenseman.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: But there is a certain amount of risk going into the playoffs with a 39-year-old top pair D and there's a certain amount of risk in going into the playoffs with the Ghost Walker pairing.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: I think you're right and you know just to comment on that is that most teams do pick up a defenseman at the deadline.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: It's just what they do because of injury.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: Right, they have an injury and the Canes don't have the depth.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: We've seen that they don't have the depth right now in Chicago.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: They want to bring up for a playoff run.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: So I think you're right.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: I think you're totally right.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: The bigger concern I would have I certainly hear your challenge in terms of Burns.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Goss.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Despair has struggled with injury and we know that's always a concern with him.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: And he's more brittle than you think.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: I am delighted with Sean Walker.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: I think he is a wonderful defense.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: He was great last night.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: I wish they would move him up to the second pairing, and I wish they would do that now, but that's okay.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: You know, what would set the Twitter ex-verse absolutely aflame that would be a bargain for a seventh defenseman is that there's a certain former Canes defenseman that has returned back to North America from Russia.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: And as yeah, yeah, there's a report he got into some sort of kerfuffle with the coaching staff in Russia and he's coming back to North America not necessarily to the NHL, but you talk about at the last moment.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: You know signing teams do this all the time.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: Talk about at the last moment, you know signing that teams do this all the time.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: League minimum contract veteran who?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: wants one last shot at the NHL before it's time to call it quits and I think you know at the beginning of the season he wasn't great last year but he was more than serviceable as a seventh defenseman when Pesci got hurt in that fight as a seventh defenseman when Pesci got hurt in that fight.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: If you're talking about the Canes looking for somebody that knows the system, somebody that can help run the power play, so if Ghost gets hurt again, you're not having to rely on Ty Smith running your power play.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: Oh my, and would be a bargain, you're not having to trade anybody for him.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: You're not having to trade picks or prospects or anything.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: You keep that whole stable.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: Just saying it.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: Like I said, it would set a whole lot of people off one way or the other, rage or choruses of hallelujah, but it's just something to consider.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: Since he's coming, since he's coming back over, the Canes could get him for nothing.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Well, you've absolutely made my day.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: I love Tony.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: I think he's a great player and I think he played well for the Canes.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: He played very well for the Canes and you're right, he's a guy that they could sign.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: Bring him in.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: He wouldn't even miss a beat and he left on good terms.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't a question of you know whether or not he'd done some things he shouldn't do.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's great and I'd love to see him back for sure.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: But I think, in any case, the Canes will bolster defense and they'll do it just because it's normally done in playoffs.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, like you said otherwise, they're calling up Riley Stillman or Ty Smith.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: They can't do it.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: They can't do it and you know, scott Morrow and the other young guys are not ready.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: So I think for sure there's something that could be done there.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so lots of discussion.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: We're going to get more and more as we get towards, obviously, the Four Nations tournament, and then the deadline is just two weeks after that tournament ends, on the 20th.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: So we're going to have a lot of excitement as we head into february.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: Uh, and for sure the canes will be in the middle of it, because anything that's significant, uh, they're definitely in conversation they're always part of the conversation.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Yep for sure, um okay, as we wrap up, uh, ladies, uh final thoughts, uh, aaron, what do you got?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: well, I'm like I said, I'm proud of them for making that three-game win streak happen.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: Now let's make it four.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: News I saw a brief comment this morning on X about Elvis Merzlikin's leaving practice with a possible injury.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: Now, it may be nothing, that may be nothing.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: It could be a stinger, that he'll be fine, but that's something to keep an eye on.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: For.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: Is it tomorrow night's game?
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, tomorrow night's game, thursday's game?
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: Because whenever we upload this and you know so, that'll definitely show us the outcome you know that could influence the outcome of that game.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: They could make it a four-game winning streak, and wouldn't that be exciting?
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: I just want to see them continue to get more aggressive offensively, and I think that that is something Katie thinks too.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they have eight games remaining between now, starting with the Columbus game, and the Four Nations tournament.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: So what I really want to see is a big push from them.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: I want them to enter that break on a high note, feeling good, a little bit of a role, Ideally.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: I want six out of the eight games to be in the in the wind column.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: I think that's really, like you know, five.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: Fine, Don't want it to be 500, though.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: I don't want.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: I don't want them to be going back to that.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: Four wins, four losses, oh, we won, oh we lost, oh we won, oh we lost.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: Let's get off the seesaw and start making some progress and and padding, padding our points standing a little bit better.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: So that's really what I'd like to see at least six out of the eight wins.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: And it's a mix of teams that they're facing.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: You know they're going to be facing off against both of the New York teams and the Rangers are starting to get hot again but they're also going to be facing off against Utah and Chicago, which are a little bit weaker.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: Of course, last time we saw Chicago it wasn't the or no, we did.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: We beat them.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: It still wasn't the game we wanted to see, like they should not have had to go to overtime against a team like chicago.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: They pulled it out eventually, but so it's a mix.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: They're also going to see winnipeg and winnipeg's one of the hot you know strong teams in the league right now.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: So it is a mix and it's four home games, four away games, two different two game road trips.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: So they have a lot of opportunity here.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: It's not like they're facing the easiest schedule, but they're not facing the hardest schedule either.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: There's lots of opportunity for them to get those 12 points or so in the standing before going into the break and feeling good about themselves.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: So that's what I'd like to see.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: I really just want them to enter the break healthy and with some extra points.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: Healthy is important.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: Well, for sure and I agree, and I think if they can continue to play the way they're playing right now and they'll get the goaltending I'm feeling pretty good about that they should definitely be able to win five or six games over that period of time.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I think that would set them up nicely for a final run at the end of the season.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Things are definitely trending in the right direction.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: They've got some areas to work on, as we've discussed, but for sure we'll be following it closely and we'll be getting together again very, very soon.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: As always, ladies, it's great to talk hockey with you, and we've got lots to be thinking about these days with the rumor mill swirling.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Lots to be thinking about these days with the rumor mill swirling and with, of course, the canes starting to mount some winds.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: So, for those of you who have been watching or listening, as always, we thank you very much for joining us.
• 1:16:47
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• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: If you have any comments, please leave those below, and the three of us will try to respond as quickly as we can.
• 1:16:56
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• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Again, thanks so much for joining us right here.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: On Storm Tracker, we'll catch up real soon, thank you.