Latest / The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor / Ep. 15: UGH, That Sounds Like WORK!

Transcript

Ep. 15: UGH, That Sounds Like WORK! · The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Imperfect Impulse with Brie O'Connor.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Brie O'Connor.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: Happy Thursday to you all who are listening on release day,
0:13
SPEAKER_00: and happy whatever day to the rest of you.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to start today out with, um, a gripe.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna complain about my kids.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: What parent doesn't complain about their kids?
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Kids today!
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Um...
0:32
SPEAKER_00: My youngest knows exactly how to get my goat.
0:36
And any time that I offer an activity or perhaps require of her
0:46
some responsibility
0:47
SPEAKER_00: and accountability,
0:50
SPEAKER_00: she will roll her eyes and go,
0:53
SPEAKER_00: that sounds like work.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Now, I know she is actually not a stranger to work.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: She's a good student.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: And she does, you know, keep up her end of the bargain in the household.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I need to remind her because she's only 13.
1:15
But she knows that phrase will just crawl up the back of my
1:20
spine and set off
1:22
SPEAKER_00: fireworks in my lizard brain.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And let me tell you what.
1:29
I mean,
1:29
number one,
1:30
it irritates me as a parent who needs help around the house.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And,
1:35
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:36
SPEAKER_00: anyone who's had sort of an ant grasshopper,
1:39
SPEAKER_00: oh boy,
1:41
SPEAKER_00: I realize that that's a reference that some of you don't know about.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, oh boy.
1:49
Quickly,
1:50
The Ant and the Grasshopper is a story that I was told a lot as
1:55
a child in school,
1:57
uh,
1:58
SPEAKER_00: And I realized that as a rural child,
2:02
SPEAKER_00: this story had incredible relevance to me,
2:06
SPEAKER_00: you know,
2:06
SPEAKER_00: to us culturally.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't really apply in urban environments.
2:14
My friends who grew up in urban places were not as familiar
2:17
with this tale.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, it is ingrained in my brain.
2:22
So in The Ant and the Grasshopper,
2:24
essentially the grasshopper is a happy-go-lucky character
2:28
who keeps coming by his friend the aunt's house and is like,
2:32
do you want to play?
2:33
SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful day.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: And the aunt's like, no, I got to prepare for winter.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I can't.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't have time.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't have time.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the story, it's getting cold.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: And the aunt is now sitting down to rest and enjoy himself,
2:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
2:52
SPEAKER_00: in the warmth and comfort that he prepared for.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: And the grasshopper's like, hey dude, can you help me out?
3:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm hungry and I'm cold.
3:03
And the aunt went,
3:04
you should have thought about that when you were screwing
3:07
around all summer.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: You could have helped me out, but you didn't.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: And essentially, that's the end of the story.
3:13
Which,
3:15
as an adult,
3:17
I just realized,
3:19
perhaps a bit too late,
3:21
that the grasshopper died.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: That's not part of the story that they tell,
3:25
SPEAKER_00: but that's the logical conclusion of the story,
3:29
is that the grasshopper either starved or froze to death
3:33
because the ant was too
3:34
SPEAKER_00: petty to share.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Although,
3:38
SPEAKER_00: also,
3:38
I can understand from the ant's perspective that they put in
3:42
all this effort and
3:45
SPEAKER_00: didn't feel like sharing with someone who didn't put in as much effort.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: in a rural place where honestly people,
3:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
3:57
up until the last century did die from complacency because they
4:05
didn't prepare or
4:07
SPEAKER_00: they weren't on the lookout.
4:09
So the story has really deep meaning in a rural area where
4:14
there really isn't much
4:16
SPEAKER_00: help other than your own
4:20
SPEAKER_00: fortitude, your own willingness to put your back into it.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's not as useful in an urban place.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: So anyway,
4:33
SPEAKER_00: this is the context that forms a lot of my attitudes about work,
4:39
SPEAKER_00: for better or for worse.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: I, of course, am horrified because I also identify as a grasshopper.
4:46
I am a playful person,
4:48
and I do believe there is a time and place for play.
4:53
To think that my contribution would be seen as not worthy
5:00
enough to warrant food
5:02
SPEAKER_00: and shelter is fairly terrifying.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: So here we go.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: There's my conflict.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think we'll hear this as we move through this discussion today.
5:15
Because I'm also grown up idealizing the worker movements of
5:19
the 20th century and
5:22
SPEAKER_00: the union advancements that have
5:35
SPEAKER_00: brought us the weekend and,
5:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:38
SPEAKER_00: a reasonable work day and child labor laws,
5:44
all of these things that we now consider and should consider a
5:49
public good.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I fully support those concepts.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: However, I am absolutely flummoxed
6:01
SPEAKER_00: at the idea that humans have evolved past work.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: That we shouldn't work.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: That we should have all of this leisure time to do what?
6:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm a person who absolutely abhors Sundays.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't like Sundays.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't like the laziness of Sundays.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: I know I should.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: I know I should take the time to replenish,
6:29
SPEAKER_00: but inertia being what it is,
6:32
SPEAKER_00: I have a hard time just stopping at any point in the week and saying,
6:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take a whole day to do nothing.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: That seems unbelievably dull to me.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: So generally,
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Sundays is a day where I will putter and I will pick up projects,
6:55
SPEAKER_00: things that I need to do around the house.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: I am not a resting person.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: So yes, I have issues with work-life balance.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: However, I enjoy keeping busy.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I enjoy seeing the fruits of my labor.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Now I recognize that's not for everyone.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has to find their own balance.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: However,
7:22
I am concerned at a prevailing attitude that we should
7:31
outsource all of our our
7:36
SPEAKER_00: mental and physical effort to some outside body.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: I find this deeply disturbing and perhaps
7:46
SPEAKER_00: an existential threat.
7:50
Keep in mind that I am coming from an ant and grasshopper sort
7:55
of ethic that has
7:58
SPEAKER_00: been ingrained in me since my youth.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
8:00
SPEAKER_00: I do question murdering the grasshopper by default,
8:06
but I do believe in the industriousness of the ant and the
8:12
value that the ant gets
8:16
SPEAKER_00: from work.
8:20
I've watched over my lifetime as certain jobs have become
8:30
lesser in the minds of
8:34
SPEAKER_00: most American adults where we
8:39
SPEAKER_00: denigrate retail work, customer service, as menial, as unimportant.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And yet,
8:48
SPEAKER_00: when that job is not done well,
8:52
SPEAKER_00: and we are on the receiving end of that poor work ethic,
8:55
SPEAKER_00: boy do we notice.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And it's not fun for us.
9:01
Yet,
9:01
we also have a lot of complaints about,
9:05
I don't want to work in a cubicle.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: as if that kind of work is inherently meaningless and stupid.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: And yet millions of people perform these jobs.
9:23
Millions of people in this country are being told on a daily
9:30
basis that the work
9:32
SPEAKER_00: that they do has no meaning.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: that the work that they do does not have dignity.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And I find this extraordinarily problematic.
9:50
I question that the idea of meaningful work is somehow
9:58
determined by an external
9:59
SPEAKER_00: factor,
10:01
SPEAKER_00: by a big salary.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: By a corner office.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: By what you have to wear to work.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Do you have to get spiffed up?
10:14
Do you have to have a special wardrobe in order to be respected
10:18
at your job?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Awards.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: That awards have deep meaning.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Except they actually don't.
10:30
I used to have this idea that awards were so special that all
10:35
of a sudden,
10:37
SPEAKER_00: out of the goodness of their hearts,
10:40
SPEAKER_00: your co-workers and your colleagues have all decided,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: wow,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: you know what?
10:46
SPEAKER_00: This person's going the extra mile.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Let's give them an award.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, that's not really how awards work.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: You have to lobby for most awards.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: You put your name in a hat.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Or an award is given as kind of a favor,
11:05
SPEAKER_00: a little bit of a back scratching so that you do something for,
11:10
SPEAKER_00: you know,
11:11
SPEAKER_00: whoever's giving the award.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Or it's given as a way to thank you for some sort of favor.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: It's rarely about the quality of work.
11:27
This was so disillusioning to my sweet little innocent rural
11:33
girl heart that I find
11:37
SPEAKER_00: most awards to be somewhat distasteful.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: And as a result,
11:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't put myself forward for these awards very often,
11:46
SPEAKER_00: which means I don't get them.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: Another way that we ascribe meaning, and I already talked about a salary.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: And with that salary comes respect and power and attention.
12:08
I am very concerned about these things that we value over
12:16
actual work product.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: This idea that we deserve money for being people.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Not to say that we don't deserve food, shelter, all of these things.
12:31
We do deserve a certain basic amount of comforts as a member of
12:37
a community.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: However, being awarded or rewarded for just being troubles me greatly.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: What used to be channeled into...
12:55
SPEAKER_00: kids thinking that basketball was going to bring them to a better life.
12:59
I mean,
12:59
at least in basketball,
13:01
you had to nurture a skill and you had to become the best at
13:09
it.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: I am all for becoming the best at something.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to necessarily shit on influencers because,
13:19
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:19
SPEAKER_00: they have to learn skills too
13:24
SPEAKER_00: However,
13:25
SPEAKER_00: and here's where we're going to get into the thick of the plot,
13:31
the idea that we can sit back and plug ideas into artificial
13:39
intelligence and have
13:41
SPEAKER_00: it spit back things that reward us is deeply distressing.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Now let's talk about the things that we lose.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: The things that we lose
13:56
when we outsource our mental and emotional work is that we
14:04
begin to atrophy.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: I'll use myself as an example.
14:10
Throughout my high school existence,
14:14
I swore up and down that I don't need math.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't need algebra or geometry.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: This is useless to me.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And so as an adult,
14:26
I missed some formative stuff because I was in the hospital
14:31
right when they were
14:33
SPEAKER_00: teaching division in elementary school.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: And I honestly never caught up.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: I'll admit that.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: So as a result, I didn't advance too far beyond geometry in high school.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: I rely a lot on a calculator.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Honestly,
14:58
SPEAKER_00: and I make this joke,
14:59
but I think two to three times every time I have to multiply
15:04
seven by eight without
15:05
SPEAKER_00: the aid of a calculator.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: You'd think that I would just retain that knowledge.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know, it's 56, right?
15:13
SPEAKER_00: It's 56, is that correct?
15:17
Yeah,
15:17
I'm not gonna check it,
15:18
so if I'm wrong,
15:19
I will have proven my point.
15:24
But I am concerned when I see that example from my own life
15:31
that we end up losing
15:35
SPEAKER_00: capacity if we do not challenge ourselves intellectually and physically.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Think about 150 years ago.
15:50
Think about 150 years ago if you would have told the average
15:57
person that we needed
15:59
to go to a special place to move our bodies and to pay
16:06
professionals to tell us how
16:09
SPEAKER_00: to move our bodies so that we do not gain weight or lose muscle mass.
16:18
They would have laughed at you because their lives required a
16:27
certain amount of
16:28
SPEAKER_00: physical activity every day.
16:31
Here we are struggling to find new ways to engage our bodies
16:37
because we lack the daily activity.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And the same can be true with our minds as we
16:46
continually outsource our intellectual output to chat GPT open
16:57
AI you know name
16:59
your poison and I will use the example of Health and Human
17:07
Services when they
17:08
recently put out a report that they plugged into AI to spit out
17:14
a report that they
17:15
SPEAKER_00: didn't
17:16
SPEAKER_00: take the time to fact check and reread.
17:21
And it spit out all of these facts,
17:26
I use the word in quotes,
17:28
that were supported by studies.
17:32
And it turns out that eight of these reports cited in this
17:38
official document from
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Health and Human Services,
17:41
SPEAKER_00: these reports didn't exist.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: These studies,
17:45
SPEAKER_00: I guess studies is probably more appropriate than reports,
17:49
SPEAKER_00: but these studies didn't exist.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: AI made them up to prove the point that RFKs wanted to project.
18:01
What good are we if we outsource our ability to think and be
18:08
intellectually accountable?
18:11
SPEAKER_00: I've
18:12
been in situations where I've watched some of my cohort hire
18:17
someone to write their
18:19
grant language and ended up paying $400 for somebody to
18:26
basically feed a few
18:29
sentences into ChatGPT and spit out a word salad of
18:35
hyper-important grant language
18:37
SPEAKER_00: that said absolutely nothing.
18:41
This person felt like they were entitled to that $400 for that
18:46
five minutes of work
18:47
SPEAKER_00: that they put in.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: This is unconscionable.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: And it is a lack of pride in our own intellectual ability.
18:59
I think we need to struggle to find words,
19:07
to find a way to express ourselves clearly.
19:12
And I am deeply concerned that our general attitude toward work
19:20
and effort,
19:22
SPEAKER_00: we are essentially programming ourselves out of a meaningful existence.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Human beings are built to think, solve problems, and to work.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna step back for a second
19:42
to talk about meaningful work and how we have decided that
19:49
certain jobs are menial
19:51
and beneath us even high school students will turn their nose
19:57
up at a counter job
19:59
at McDonald's which used to be a rite of passage for most kids
20:04
growing up is that
20:05
they had some kind of job like that and now they have all these
20:09
internship
20:10
SPEAKER_00: opportunities
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, that sounds so fancy.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, at least urban kids do.
20:17
And while I would like my kids to have those opportunities to
20:22
stretch themselves
20:23
SPEAKER_00: and explore different employment options and visions for their future,
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I also want them to scrub toilets.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: I want them to know what it is like
20:38
to put your back into it and do things that are really
20:42
unpleasant and find reward
20:46
SPEAKER_00: and meaning in doing so.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Because reward and meaning are not inherent in the job.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: You can be dissatisfied and lonely and empty making six figures.
21:06
and having a corner office,
21:09
if you are expecting external validation to honor you and fill
21:15
you.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile,
21:18
if you can find meaning in handing someone a coffee and giving
21:24
them 30 seconds of
21:27
SPEAKER_00: pleasure or brightness in their day,
21:29
SPEAKER_00: a being of service,
21:34
SPEAKER_00: If you can look at that toilet you just cleaned and go,
21:38
SPEAKER_00: wow,
21:39
SPEAKER_00: this was really gross a second ago.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: And now I have,
21:45
SPEAKER_00: through my own effort,
21:47
SPEAKER_00: made this clean and usable for my customers,
21:55
SPEAKER_00: for my clientele,
21:57
SPEAKER_00: or whoever.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: Like someone...
22:01
SPEAKER_00: cares enough to deliver a clean bathroom.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Meaning does not come from external sources.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: It is within your soul.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: And I am afraid that we are outsourcing our very souls for what?
22:23
SPEAKER_00: To get some empty attention and praise that will absolutely not
22:30
SPEAKER_00: provide the meaning you're looking for.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Because as we talked about earlier,
22:36
the award system is not really a recognition of excellence
22:43
unless there is
22:46
SPEAKER_00: something to be gained by making that recognition.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: It's advertising.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: It's back scratching.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of things, but it's not recognition of your efforts.
23:03
And we know that because people who do the work that we look
23:09
down on don't get those awards.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: And who's to say they don't deserve them?
23:19
So these are the things that are absolutely sticking in my craw
23:23
this week.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And I really want us to be mindful.
23:29
And I want to be mindful as well of what I am blowing through
23:35
for expediency.
23:38
And what am I losing when I am trying to do something quickly,
23:44
when I am trying to outsource my
23:48
SPEAKER_00: intellectual labor, my physical labor to something or someone else.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: What skill am I not learning?
23:58
SPEAKER_00: What part of my system am I not exercising?
24:05
SPEAKER_00: And is it worth it for the outcome?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Is it worth it?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Am I really doing something that's truly meaningful?
24:18
SPEAKER_00: So that's something I would like to meditate on.
24:21
I can definitely save a discussion of the value or dangers of
24:32
AI for another date.
24:35
This isn't all about AI that I've spoken about today,
24:39
but it does play a part.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: We're meant to work.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: We are a working creature.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm concerned that we are fantasizing about doing anything else.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's it for this week.
25:00
And I'll probably be back two shorter episodes next week on the
25:05
Imperfect Impulse.