Latest / Brian Thomas / Tech Friday w/ Dave Hatter - Sponsored by Intrust IT - 11/06/2026

Transcript

Tech Friday w/ Dave Hatter - Sponsored by Intrust IT - 11/06/2026 · Brian Thomas

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  Speaker 1: 629-55-KERCETY-TALK-STATION. Friday, appointment listening. Podcast listening, too. Later, you can
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: cut and paste and forward it to your friends. 55-KERCETY.IHEART.COM.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: InTrustIT.COM to find Dave Hatter and his crew. Employee-owned company
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: looking out for your business needs, especially, I mean, with
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: regard to computers. They'll keep you, get best practices, fix
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: stuff that's broken and look out for your best interest.
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  Speaker 1: And Well, Dave will show up today and scare the
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  Speaker 1: living crap out of at least me. Dave Hatter, welcome back, man.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate IntrustIT.com sponsoring this segment, and I always heed
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  Speaker 1: your advice, and this is something that's really, really, really
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  Speaker 1: been worrying me for a long time. AI agents getting
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  Speaker 1: into bank accounts. Dave, welcome back.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, Brian. Always good to be here. Yeah, I'm concerned
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  Speaker 2: about this as well. The good news is large banks have...
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  Speaker 2: been paying attention to this, have been talking about this.
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  Speaker 2: It looks like several have banned this. And the real
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  Speaker 2: issue here, and I think I can just summarize this
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  Speaker 2: very easily. It's now possible with AI agents to have
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  Speaker 2: an agent that will just go do things on your
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  Speaker 2: behalf or on behalf of whatever credentials that are given
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  Speaker 2: to it. And what I mean by that is you
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  Speaker 2: give it a username and password credentials. It assumes that
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  Speaker 2: identity and it does stuff. You've seen stories here in
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  Speaker 2: the recent past about agents that have gone rogue and
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  Speaker 2: done things they weren't supposed to do, things they weren't
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  Speaker 2: asked to do. So what the banks are saying is
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  Speaker 2: it appears that there's activity like this in their networks.
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  Speaker 2: I've seen stories where someone is like, oh, hey, it
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  Speaker 2: might be a great idea if I set my AI
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  Speaker 2: agent loose and let it act on my behalf to
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  Speaker 2: buy me things or something. Now, I don't think this
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  Speaker 2: is going to come as a shock to you or
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  Speaker 2: anyone that's ever heard me talk about this before. There
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  Speaker 2: was absolutely no way I would give any kind of
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  Speaker 2: AI agent the capability to act as me in any
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  Speaker 2: sort of financial way. Because as a reminder, folks, AI
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  Speaker 2: still hallucinates. It makes things up. It's probabilistic, not deterministic.
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  Speaker 2: So there is literally no chance I would allow something
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  Speaker 2: to do this.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, walk me, the ignorant person that I am,
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  Speaker 1: pretend I'm seven. And you're trying to explain how this
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  Speaker 1: goes about. Because what you just said to me suggests
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  Speaker 1: that I, a logical, reasonable thinking human being, would give
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  Speaker 1: artificial intelligence like what, Grok or ChatGPT, my account information
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  Speaker 1: along with instructions to act on my behalf? Is that
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  Speaker 1: what I heard you say?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, man, you're going to get me to break the
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  Speaker 1: FCC rules. That is blanking insane, Dave. Why would I
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  Speaker 1: ever do that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. Maybe because you don't understand the risk.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe because you think this is cool. This all sort
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  Speaker 2: of started, the first article I saw about it anyway
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  Speaker 2: was from Axios. Unvetted AI agents are accessing bank accounts, right?
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  Speaker 2: And then it goes on to say, you know, banks
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  Speaker 2: detecting unauthorized activity from third-party agents operating within customers' online accounts.
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  Speaker 2: Some of the biggest financial institutions in the U.S. say
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  Speaker 2: customers have given their personal agents, which are unvetted by banks,
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  Speaker 2: access to their financial accounts. Yeah. And so here's the thing.
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  Speaker 2: I wouldn't do this in general, okay? And if I
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  Speaker 2: were going to use an AI agent in this way,
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  Speaker 2: I would make sure it had the least amount of
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  Speaker 2: permissions possible. Because here's the real issue, Brian. Besides the hallucination,
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  Speaker 2: besides the fact that these things will do things you
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  Speaker 2: didn't necessarily want them or expect them to do, If
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  Speaker 2: and when it goes wrong, if you wake up tomorrow
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  Speaker 2: and you've done something like this and all of your
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  Speaker 2: money's gone, well, whose fault is it? Is it the
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  Speaker 2: bank's fault? Is it your fault? Your fault. Is it
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  Speaker 2: the AI company's fault? Well, I would agree it's your fault.
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  Speaker 2: But when your money's gone from a legal perspective, because
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  Speaker 2: as you know, this stuff is all still relatively new
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  Speaker 2: and relatively immature, you know, there's no legal framework around
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  Speaker 2: any of this.
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  Speaker 1: Well, artificial intelligence companies at least prudent enough to give
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  Speaker 1: some sort of, you know, I'll even call it half-assed
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  Speaker 1: warning ahead of time that bad things can happen and
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  Speaker 1: use at your own risk, caveat emptor kind of stuff, Dave.
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  Speaker 2: One would hope. One would hope. And, you know, again,
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  Speaker 2: you can make a distinction here between, again, like some
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  Speaker 2: rogue thing versus you giving an agent like a Muse
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  Speaker 2: or something, Grokbot, other things folks have probably heard of,
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  Speaker 2: the access to your bank account.
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  Speaker 1: Who's smart enough to know the restrictive parameters sufficiently enough
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  Speaker 1: that they could prevent it from going outside of them?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I would argue, even if you knew how to
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  Speaker 2: set the guardrails correctly, the idea of them going rogue,
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  Speaker 2: the idea of hallucination, again, it comes up with something
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  Speaker 2: that's wrong. Well, if that's only 1% of the time,
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  Speaker 2: but it's catastrophic, well, then what?
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  Speaker 1: Well, and aren't you also putting into the ether, not
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  Speaker 1: that it doesn't exist out there somewhere else, but the
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  Speaker 1: information you'd need to access an account, which would include
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  Speaker 1: the account information along with passwords to get it, that
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  Speaker 1: goes out into the world, I guess.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: Dave, it troubles me that anybody would consider doing this
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  Speaker 1: in the first instance.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe I've just learned too much from you to know
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  Speaker 1: that that just sounds like an extraordinarily dumb idea.
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  Speaker 2: Know it would be one thing to say okay if
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  Speaker 2: it had read-only access and you wanted to know like
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  Speaker 2: your spending patterns or whatever but if it has full
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  Speaker 2: read write access if it can truly act on your
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  Speaker 2: behalf transfer money make purchases etc um in my mind
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  Speaker 2: the risk of that is way way way too high
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  Speaker 2: now some banks so again Banks are talking about this.
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  Speaker 2: Jamie Dimon, the CEO of J.P. Morgan, recently expressed concern
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  Speaker 2: about this. This is a quote from him. We're not
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  Speaker 2: going to allow just any outside agents to come inside
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  Speaker 2: the company because it's just too risky for clients and
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  Speaker 2: for J.P. Morgan, unquote. Charles Schwab, CEO, said they're just
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  Speaker 2: going to block it outright, at least for now. So again,
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  Speaker 2: the good news is people are, banks are paying attention
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  Speaker 2: to this. Hopefully they're warning customers. I think it's an
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  Speaker 2: important topic to talk about. At some future point, when
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  Speaker 2: this stuff is more mature and it's more proven to
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  Speaker 2: work right in a consistent deterministic type fashion, okay, I
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  Speaker 2: might consider something like this. Literally no chance I would
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  Speaker 2: do something. Absolutely no chance I would give any kind
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  Speaker 2: of agent access to anything with my credentials, my identity
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  Speaker 2: that could do anything financial. And that would be my
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  Speaker 2: advice to anyone listening to this. You are taking enormous
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  Speaker 2: risk if you do something like this.
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  Speaker 1: And my life is not complicated by the fact that
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  Speaker 1: I have to do things like this myself. It hasn't
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  Speaker 1: ever been a problem. It's not difficult. It's not time consuming.
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  Speaker 1: I just don't understand people's gravitating, gravitating toward this kind
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  Speaker 1: of just because it's there.
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  Speaker 2: I think they just don't understand the risk. It sounds cool,
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  Speaker 2: and they think they're going to save time or be
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  Speaker 2: more productive, and I think they just don't understand the risk.
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  Speaker 2: That's my best guess.
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  Speaker 1: I guess that's a good guess, man. It sounds to
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  Speaker 1: me stupid. 637 more with Dave Hatter, including the Ohio
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  Speaker 1: Auditor's website, apparently got hacked.
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  Speaker 2: Super.
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  Speaker 1: It is 640, interestit.com. That's where you find Dave Hatter.
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  Speaker 1: Also a Rush fan. Dave Hatter, they played trees at
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  Speaker 1: Rush when I saw them the other night. And I
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  Speaker 1: thought of you immediately and actually took photographs and a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of video from that, which I'll pass along
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  Speaker 1: to you at some point. Rush is going to be
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  Speaker 1: performing at the Sphere in May. So out in Vegas,
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't that be great?
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  Speaker 2: That would be very cool. I'm sure it will be
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  Speaker 2: an amazing show. Oh, my word. That is the backdrop. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Anyhow, since you're a fellow Rush geek like me, thought
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  Speaker 1: I'd pass that along to you as we pivot over
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  Speaker 1: to the Ohio Auditor's website getting attacked. What's going on here?
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  Speaker 2: Well, Brian, to me, this just illustrates nicely the things
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  Speaker 2: that we talk about all the time. And I'm not
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  Speaker 2: here to throw the Ohio Auditor under the bus, just
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  Speaker 2: to be clear. I just want to point out, especially
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  Speaker 2: for local governments, since you know I'm involved in this myself,
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  Speaker 2: local governments are increasingly under attack. Now, interestingly enough, And
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  Speaker 2: I say this all the time. Ohio, in my opinion,
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  Speaker 2: is a real leader in this space, just across the board.
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  Speaker 2: Ohio has a law that requires local governments to do
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  Speaker 2: certain things. You'll see how this ties in a second.
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  Speaker 2: Ohio has something called the Ohio Cyber Collaboration Committee that
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  Speaker 2: It's the home for the Ohio Cyber Reserve and other
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  Speaker 2: organizations and agencies trying to raise awareness, trying to provide support,
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  Speaker 2: trying to keep these sorts of jobs in Ohio, and frankly,
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  Speaker 2: trying to protect the Ohio community through the Cyber Reserve,
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  Speaker 2: which is a public-private partnership between civilians and the Ohio
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  Speaker 2: National Guard. So in almost every way, certainly compared to
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  Speaker 2: your neighbors, like us down here in Kentucky, Ohio is
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  Speaker 2: leading on a lot of these things. But to me,
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  Speaker 2: this is just illustrative of the fact that A, any
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  Speaker 2: sort of government agency is increasingly under attack. And B,
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  Speaker 2: the Ohio auditor's office under Ohio revised code 9.64, the
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  Speaker 2: law that requires Ohio governments to implement a cybersecurity program
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  Speaker 2: amongst other things, is the office responsible for enforcing it.
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  Speaker 2: So here is the office that is supposed to ensure
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  Speaker 2: that your village, your township, your city, your county, whatever,
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  Speaker 2: is doing what the ohio 9.64 rules call for has
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  Speaker 2: been hacked now think about that for a second and
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  Speaker 2: again i'm not here to throw them under the bus
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  Speaker 2: sadly these kinds of hacks are increasing everywhere every day
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  Speaker 2: on every type of organization i think we talked about
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  Speaker 2: the refrigerator thing out of france physical world yes more
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  Speaker 2: of these attacks in the eu Our physical and digital
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  Speaker 2: world are now increasingly interconnected. One of the reasons why
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  Speaker 2: the AI agent banking story is concerning to me. Again,
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  Speaker 2: no chance, no chance I would do that, Brian, at
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  Speaker 2: this point. But the auditor's office website has been down
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  Speaker 2: for some time now. Yeah. If you look, as best
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  Speaker 2: I can tell, it still is down, right? I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to try it while I'm talking to you. And assuming
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  Speaker 2: I'm typing it in right, because it's early and I'm
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  Speaker 2: old and blind now, Brian. It's still down, I believe.
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  Speaker 2: Let me try to confirm that. It doesn't seem to
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  Speaker 2: be responding to me. I mean, and this has been
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  Speaker 2: in the news. Like, here's a story. Ohio Auditor's website
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  Speaker 2: and online accounts down after cyber attack. That story was
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  Speaker 2: published on the 27th. And unless this problem was on
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  Speaker 2: my end somehow, the auditor's website is still not working
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  Speaker 2: for me. Now, that doesn't mean their other backend services
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  Speaker 2: are down. And it's not entirely clear to me exactly
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  Speaker 2: what happened at this point from the reporting I've seen.
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  Speaker 2: In this article, it says, quote, out of an abundance
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  Speaker 2: of caution, we took the web server and online accounts
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  Speaker 2: offline while internal and external experts scrutinized the threat activity, unquote.
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  Speaker 2: The bigger point I'm trying to make is, to me,
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  Speaker 2: this just illustrates, again, Governments specifically under attack and as
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  Speaker 2: an organization of any type, as a business, as a government,
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  Speaker 2: I just can't stress enough, folks, you got to take
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  Speaker 2: this stuff seriously. There are defenses against this. You ran
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  Speaker 2: the commercial where we talk about resilience. Resilience has never
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  Speaker 2: been more important. Resilience is the idea that things break.
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a cyber attack. It could
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  Speaker 2: be a hard disk failure. It could be your internet
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  Speaker 2: is taken out. It could be your cloud service provider
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  Speaker 2: that does X, Y, or Z for you is down
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  Speaker 2: for some reason. It's thinking about planning for what are
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  Speaker 2: you going to do when something stops working and understanding
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  Speaker 2: what's critical in your organization, right? Not everything has to
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  Speaker 2: have the same level of protection. Not everything has the
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  Speaker 2: same impact on your organization if it stops working for
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  Speaker 2: some reason. So, you know, this to me just illustrates, again,
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  Speaker 2: the idea of resilience. Unfortunately, resilience costs money. It might
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  Speaker 2: be duplicate systems. It might be three or four different
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  Speaker 2: backups stored in different locations. There's something called the backup
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  Speaker 2: rule of three, two, one. There's literally nothing you can
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  Speaker 2: do at this point, Brian. Nothing that will make you
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  Speaker 2: completely impervious to these kind of things. And we're seeing
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  Speaker 2: that more and more. But you can defend against it,
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  Speaker 2: and you can prepare for something bad happening.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Christine sent me an email while we were talking
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  Speaker 1: in the last segment. She said, keep asking about AI
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  Speaker 1: getting passwords even without permission. It scares her. It scares me.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why you always emphasize the importance of two-factor authentication.
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  Speaker 1: Even if they were able to hack in and get
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  Speaker 1: your password through some nefarious means, They can't do it
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  Speaker 1: unless they have your cell phone to enter the code
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  Speaker 1: with a two-factor authentication. Well, that's not as true as
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  Speaker 1: it used to.
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  Speaker 2: Be, unfortunately. So multi-factor authentication, a.k.a. two-factor authentication, a.k.a. two-step verification,
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  Speaker 2: depending on what platform you're on, is still absolutely critical.
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  Speaker 2: I don't want people to walk away from this understanding.
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  Speaker 2: You should turn on multi-factor authentication now. on every account,
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  Speaker 2: certainly any account that has access to sensitive data and
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  Speaker 2: or your money, your retirement account, your bank accounts, that
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  Speaker 2: sort of thing. Absolutely critical. However, and we may run
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  Speaker 2: out of time in this segment, there's a new sort
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  Speaker 2: of attack called a man in the middle or adversary
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  Speaker 2: in the middle attack where the bad guys sit between
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  Speaker 2: you and whatever you're trying to log into and they're
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  Speaker 2: proxying the communication. So you enter your username and password,
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  Speaker 2: it goes to them, they send it to your bank
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  Speaker 2: or Microsoft or whatever. When the request for the one-time
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  Speaker 2: passcode or the MFA code comes back, they get that request,
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  Speaker 2: send it to you. You have no idea they're in
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  Speaker 2: the middle of this. You enter that code. It goes
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  Speaker 2: to them. They send it to your bank or Microsoft.
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  Speaker 2: When that clears, they say, here's your session token, the
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  Speaker 2: thing that tells them you've logged in. Now the bad
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  Speaker 2: guys have it. This is real. And there are defenses
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  Speaker 2: against this. Fish-resistant MFA, pass keys, hardware keys. There are
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  Speaker 2: ways to defeat this, but they require a little more
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  Speaker 2: knowledge and, frankly, a little more friction. But sadly, that's
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  Speaker 2: where we're... That's where we are. Fish resistant. Yeah. Fish
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  Speaker 2: resistant MFA. And that is where we are today.
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  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, interest it.com to reach Dave and the crew. Don't
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: go away. Delta targeted in federal investigation. It's six 50,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: 55 care city talk station at the Friday tech Friday
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  Speaker 1: with Dave Hatter interest it.com. You can find Dave and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: all the articles he relies on for the segment at
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: linked in.com. Just search for Dave Hatter and you should
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: probably check him out throughout the week. He's always posting
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: great stuff. And you know, I don't, I don't like this, Dave,
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  Speaker 1: but here's one of the reasons they have established and
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  Speaker 1: created these files on us, hoovering up all the data
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  Speaker 1: that we give them voluntarily through these free apps and
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  Speaker 1: every other form. They know who we are, how much
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  Speaker 1: we make, what we buy, and now these major organizations,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and there are a lot of allegations about this, are
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  Speaker 1: adjusting pricing based upon what you can afford. Now, that's
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  Speaker 1: our tax system, isn't it, Dave? You know, the more
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  Speaker 1: you make, the more they tax. Well, the more you make,
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  Speaker 1: the more they're going to charge you for any given
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  Speaker 1: product or service.
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  Speaker 2: So what you said about why they want your data
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  Speaker 2: is absolutely right. That's a big part of it. And
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  Speaker 2: I also need to get my plug in, Brian, for
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Queen City Con. The premier Midwestern cybersecurity conference starts next Friday.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, probably when I talk to you and Joe,
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  Speaker 2: I will be on site there at the Hyatt, November
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  Speaker 2: 13th through 15th, queencitycon.org. Look it up, folks. But yeah,
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  Speaker 2: this is a thing that Really rubs me the wrong way.
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  Speaker 2: Surveillance pricing. I wrote an article about this back in
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  Speaker 2: February when I learned about it. Primarily, I mean, I
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  Speaker 2: knew it was a thing. Yeah. But because Maryland banned it.
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  Speaker 2: So I did a little research for this and then
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  Speaker 2: I want to come back and explain it. But so far,
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  Speaker 2: from best I can tell, four states have actually banned
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  Speaker 2: this practice. Maryland, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York.
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  Speaker 1: All Democrat states.
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  Speaker 2: Several other states looking to ban it. California, Washington, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Minnesota, Tennessee,
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  Speaker 2: and Vermont. I can tell you, based on the article
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  Speaker 2: I wrote and the research I've done into this, I
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: have reached out to legislators in Kentucky and I'm working
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  Speaker 2: to try to get something going here. But that said,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, as recently as yesterday, Brian, here's an article.
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  Speaker 2: Digital price tags at grocery stores raise surveillance pricing fears.
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  Speaker 2: There's always been the concept of dynamic pricing. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Oak Park, River Forest. Listen, we joked about it all
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  Speaker 1: the time. I lived in Oak Park, and the next
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  Speaker 1: neighborhood to the west of Oak Park up in Chicago
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  Speaker 1: was River Forest. River Forest, a much wealthier neighborhood than
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Oak Park. There was the Oak Park price to get
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  Speaker 1: your furnace fixed, and then there was the River Forest
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  Speaker 1: price to get your furnace fixed. It was more. Why?
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  Speaker 1: Because you're in that neighborhood. This is the same damn thing,
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  Speaker 1: except they do it, well, electronically.
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  Speaker 2: At a lot larger scale with a lot more detailed
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  Speaker 2: information to really hone it in. So again, things like
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  Speaker 2: surge pricing on an Uber would be an example of this, right?
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  Speaker 2: If you use Amazon or Walmart online, as they collect
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: more data about you, they know your zip code, whatever,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of course they could adjust the price. But in my opinion,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: this goes much deeper than that. Now, thanks to digital
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: price tags, as they mentioned in this story, so I'll
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: just quote from this article, from websites to brick and
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: mortar stores, it's easier than ever for companies to target
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: shoppers with prices based on their personal data. Now, a
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: recent change at many grocery stores is raising concerns about
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: so-called surveillance pricing.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You walk in the store. It it recognizes your phone.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: They have beacons. Your phone is pinging off of them.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Your phone is connected to you. They know it's you.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: So you go over and pick up a can of
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: spam or whatever. And the price you see on the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: digital price tag is different than the price I get
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: because they think you make more money than me.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Then get a Faraday Faraday bag. What would the default
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: pricing be, the lowest price?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Who knows? Good question, Brian. But again, at one time,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: certainly they could do this if you were only an
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: online shopper. And it was called dynamic pricing. That's been
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: around for a long time. But now this idea is
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: with even more data than ever before. And it's not
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: just e-commerce. It's not just online. Now in physical stores,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: because of this technology. And again, when you walk in,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Your phone, if you have the Wi-Fi turned on, if
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you have the Bluetooth turned on, a Faraday bag is
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: a great option. I recommend GoDark. Yes, I have one
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of these for my phone. Shocker option, Brian. Maybe we
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: do a whole segment on that and how to find
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: these things because they're not all the same. And if
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: you go buy one off Timu for $ 5, it probably
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: won't do what it purports to do. But yeah, I mean,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: other than states banning this, your only real defense is
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: don't take your phone with you. Turn off the Wi-Fi
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and the Bluetooth. Or drop your phone in a Faraday purse, pouch, bag, whatever. But,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: you know, until this is banned, you're only going to
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: see more and more of this. And again, folks, I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: want to be clear. This is not just you go
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: online and they know your zip code. You go online,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: they know everything about you now. Yes, they do. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: it's not just online. You walk into a retail store.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: They have these systems installed. You may get a higher
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: price than me. Again, four states have banned it. Several
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: more are looking at it. I'm going to push this
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: as hard as I can in Kentucky. come January, we'll
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: see what happens. But, you know, I'll put all this
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: in the show notes. Again, I wrote an article about
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: this back in February trying to raise the awareness about this.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: This sounds like a Marxist dream. I'm surprised that Democrat
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: states have banned it because if poorer people pay less
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and richer people pay more, isn't that what they're pushing
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: for constantly with me going back to the tax rates
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that we all pay as a relative argument?
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Well, there's another interesting angle to this, Brian, which is
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day... all of your data
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: that they've collected about you may not even be right.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: So you might be getting different pricing that's not even
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: accurate because the data itself is not correct.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: That is true.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: To me, this is just wrong across the board, and
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: hopefully more states will jump on the bandwagon.