Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 9: Mike Sowden

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My Favorite Things Episode 9: Mike Sowden · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Mike Soden, thanks for being here.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure, Brendan.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: What a good question.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've no idea.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've spent 54 years trying to work that out.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: All I have are theories.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see.
• 0:22
  I am a nerd who grew up reading a lot of fiction and knew he
• 0:27
  wanted to be a writer
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: at some point,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: but never knew how.
• 0:30
  So pre-internet,
• 0:31
  I wanted to be a writer and I had no clue how to do that.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I worked in...
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Pottery for five years, making handles for mugs.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I worked on a fairground.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in insurance.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I did all sorts of stuff.
• 0:50
  And then I decided I should give up on my dream of being a
• 0:54
  writer for a while and
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: go and get a proper job.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I became an archaeologist.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: which is a career that's even less secure than being a writer.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I am no longer an archaeologist,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: but I learnt a lot studying archaeology and from that,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: in particular,
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: love of the sciences.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: After archaeology, I became a travel writer.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then from travel writing,
• 1:21
  I learnt a love of the natural world and meeting people and
• 1:26
  just going out and
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: seeing stuff.
• 1:30
  And now I write a science newsletter and it's kind of an
• 1:34
  amalgam of all those things.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: But whether this truly reflects who I am, I've no idea.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've no idea who I am.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've no idea what I'm doing.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm doing right now, I'm finding really fun.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's perfect.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, as you know, this is a podcast called My Favorite Things.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And what are we really, if not a collection of the things we love?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll talk about that a little bit.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to mention the name of your newsletter,
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: which is Everything is Amazing,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: which is a Substack newsletter.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: And anyone who is starting,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: who even talks about starting a Substack,
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: I say,
• 2:14
  go check out Everything is Amazing because this is a person who
• 2:17
  is having...
• 2:18
  an absolute blast doing it and finding things to write about
• 2:22
  just by following
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: their curiosity and making it entertaining for the rest of us.
• 2:25
  So,
• 2:26
  um,
• 2:26
  I'm going to stop praising you now because I know it makes you
• 2:28
  really uncomfortable.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's very kind, but I'm, I'm English.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, part of me is literally just died.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as he said, those things, but thank you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was very kind.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I am having fun.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't having fun.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, obviously, why would I do this?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not making me rich, Brendan.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: But no,
• 2:53
  I really feel like one of the things I've learned being on
• 2:57
  Substack is that if you
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: tackle any topic...
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: with the right, bringing the right kind of energy to it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can have a lot of fun.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: That fun can translate over to readers.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: They start having fun.
• 3:10
  And so it's important that you find something that you're
• 3:12
  enjoying,
• 3:13
  even if it's really niche.
• 3:15
  And you'll be really surprised if you just try it out and see
• 3:19
  how people respond.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be surprised what can become popular.
• 3:22
  even the absolute drivel that i write can find an audience so
• 3:27
  there's there's my
• 3:28
  there's there's my my message for everyone out there my
• 3:32
  inspiring message i feel
• 3:34
  like it's like the promise of the very early internet which was
• 3:37
  to connect you with
• 3:37
  people who had the same you know interests and passions you do
• 3:41
  however nerdy they
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: are and
• 3:43
  I always say now,
• 3:44
  I'm like,
• 3:44
  I never make fun of anything because it's probably somebody's
• 3:47
  kink.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 3:48
  there's probably some sort of weird back channel like porn
• 3:51
  thing about it and I'm
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: not even aware of it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd like to not be.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, you know, you never know.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's out there.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: You never know.
• 4:01
  The world is a very diverse place and we're all very strange in
• 4:05
  our own special ways.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Should we get started with your list of five things?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: My first one is a type of goat cheese called halloumi.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And halloumi is a Cypriot cheese, and I grew up in Cyprus.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So my... Well, so the history of Cyprus is basically...
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Until 1974, Cyprus was essentially Greek.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then Turkey invaded the north of Cyprus and split the island.
• 4:54
  And now the north of Cyprus,
• 4:58
  it's like 50 years later,
• 4:59
  which blows my mind.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: The north of Cyprus is the Republic of... No, let me get this right.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: The Northern Territory of Cyprus, I think it is.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not recognised by the EU.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the south of Cyprus is the Republic of Cyprus...
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is recognized by the EU.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a Greek side and a Turkish side.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when all this happened, my father was in the Royal Air Force.
• 5:26
  And he was seconded over from the British Royal Air Force into
• 5:29
  the United Nations
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: and sent to Cyprus as part of the peacekeeping force.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we went in 1975.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this was a year after the division of Cyprus.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we stayed until 1979.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that was when I was five years old.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, six years old.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: 1971.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, five years old.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Four and a half till eight and a half, I think it was.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Math is not my strong point, you might be able to.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I writing a science newsletter?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, that's why I was there.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I grew up in a school where half the kids were speaking Greek,
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: and I still love the sound of Greek,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm now relearning Greek.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: As an adult,
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: which is what I'm doing at the moment,
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the sounds in my head and I can say the sounds.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really interesting.
• 6:27
  I'm not having to learn the sounds,
• 6:28
  I'm having to learn the words,
• 6:30
  but the sounds are all there.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I've got a real love for Cyprus and Greece as well,
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: and just everything Mediterranean,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: that side of the Mediterranean.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those things is halloumi.
• 6:46
  Halloumi is a cheese that has weird properties in that you can
• 6:53
  fry it and it won't
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: dissolve into a gloopy mess.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: It won't deform and then form a kind of a disgusting puddle.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can scrape up the puddle and it's kind of tasty,
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: but it looks just like a splat inside.
• 7:11
  it's not like that at all it will fry like chicken so that you
• 7:15
  can have um you can
• 7:17
  have just i mean i'm sure you've had halloumi so i i know
• 7:22
  you're a fan of cheese so
• 7:23
  you've you've tried halloumi i've prepared it and like
• 7:27
  basically when i think of
• 7:27
  what i'm frying it in a pan i'm like this is pretty much how
• 7:30
  spam works right you
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: know what i mean like yeah but it's amazing i love fried halloumi
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing, and it tastes wonderful.
• 7:41
  It's squeaky,
• 7:42
  which is the thing that always surprises people when they first
• 7:45
  have it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, something weird just happened with my teeth.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, it's fine.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's supposed to do that.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you can eat it like if you're going for a vegetarian meal,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: you can eat it like it's the meat part of your dish.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it works perfectly.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a reminder.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the tastes of Cyprus for me.
• 8:07
  So I feel like it taught me the power of how a taste can
• 8:12
  trigger a memory.
• 8:13
  Because I can eat that and I can very clearly remember things
• 8:17
  about Cyprus.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just kind of flashes.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was kind of too young, really, to have any strong memories.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I can eat that and I can eat calamari, which is like fried squid.
• 8:29
  And just for a second,
• 8:31
  when that taste hits my taste buds,
• 8:34
  I've got the memory.
• 8:35
  I've got those memories and they're really,
• 8:37
  really sharp and clear in my mind.
• 8:39
  And then it's kind of,
• 8:41
  you know,
• 8:41
  goes back into the fog that is being an adult.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And all the worries crowd in again.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: But just, you know, tastes kind of remind you of parts of your life.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're little...
• 8:53
  little moments of time travel and halloumi is one of those yeah
• 8:59
  um i'm hearing like
• 9:00
  a little like i'm because your hand on the table might be
• 9:03
  making a noise right okay
• 9:05
  i don't know what it is probably me moving around a bit too
• 9:09
  it's okay i'll chop it
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: out okay so have you been back to cyprus as an adult
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I went in 2006 with a friend and we went to the south of the island.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: When my dad was stationed in Cyprus,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: it was in Nicosia,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: the capital city,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: that is now the last divided city in Europe after Berlin unified.
• 9:39
  So it's the last divided city in Europe and it's called
• 9:43
  Lefkosia on the south and
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: North Nicosia in the north.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: But back then it was just called Nicosia.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we were in the north of the island.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when I went back in 2006, we stayed in the RAF base.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was there with a friend and his brother is still in the RAF.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we stayed in the south of the island.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we did some exploring around there and I loved it.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was just,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: it wasn't like,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: those times when you kind of,
• 10:11
  you go somewhere and it's been a long time since you've been
• 10:14
  there and everything's
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: smaller because you're kind of,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: especially if you're there as a kid.
• 10:20
  I went back to where I grew up in South of England when I was
• 10:25
  like 12 and I
• 10:27
  everything was just so small it was like this this pond and i
• 10:30
  remember it being a
• 10:31
  lake and it's just a pond but cyprus wasn't anything like that
• 10:36
  everything just felt
• 10:37
  like everything was the right size and it had the right kind of
• 10:40
  feel and i just
• 10:41
  wanted to keep exploring forever so that makes me think i
• 10:46
  really want to go back to
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: cyprus and try living there for a few months oh really yeah yeah
• 10:54
  yeah that's interesting i've had that i've had that same same
• 10:57
  thought recently but
• 10:58
  not not about anywhere as cool as cyprus just the places i grew
• 11:02
  up for whatever
• 11:04
  reason oh just like little towns in southwest iowa in the
• 11:08
  midwest you know like oh
• 11:09
  i wonder what that's like now probably much probably much
• 11:13
  different more different
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: much different uh than it was but yeah
• 11:17
  There's just something so different about staying in a place
• 11:21
  long enough so you can
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: see the cycles of life of the people who live there.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And just longer than a few weeks, just seeing the seasons move a bit.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just really feel... I spent two months in Corfu, so Corfu is Greece,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that was after I'd sold my family home.
• 11:47
  And that was me kind of just recovering from that process of
• 11:50
  selling my family home.
• 11:51
  But it was two months of just renting out an Airbnb and just
• 11:57
  kind of being part of
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: the place and just being on that kind of transition zone between,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm obviously a tourist,
• 12:05
  but I've been here for weeks and weeks and people know my face
• 12:09
  and I'm starting to
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: recognise...
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:11
  I walk down the road and that dog that's in the farm will come
• 12:16
  out with its tail
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: wagging because it recognizes me.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of stuff.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:21
  And there's something really nice about being there long enough
• 12:24
  for that to happen.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I started seeing the weather was changing as well.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was there in Corfu, October, November.
• 12:33
  And at the beginning of November,
• 12:35
  the weather changes in the Mediterranean.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of famous with sailors.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: It changes pretty much in about three days.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was there, all the shopkeepers knew this was going to happen.
• 12:45
  So the entire place switched over from tourist mode to batten
• 12:51
  down for the winter mode.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So all the restaurants closed.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I walked down to get my morning kebab.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And everything was shut.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, what the hell?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the reason.
• 13:02
  They knew that in a few days' time,
• 13:04
  all these storms would come in,
• 13:06
  and they were right.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really fun seeing that happen.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:13
  I think part of me is always like,
• 13:15
  I don't want to wreck it,
• 13:16
  the memory I have of it.
• 13:17
  So I definitely don't want to go someplace that I've been for
• 13:19
  like a long period of time.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's stop it.
• 13:22
  We go to that restaurant we like and this other place and then
• 13:25
  we can check out and not ruin it.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's kind of,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: when you go into a restaurant and you had a really,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: really nice dish there,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: it was like amazing.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you're so torn between,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have that same dish again because I know it'll be really good.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but if it was really good, surely I should try something else.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's that feeling.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel that with travel all the time.
• 13:54
  It's like I want to go back to somewhere,
• 13:56
  but I want to find a way that it's a bit different.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure there can be a sweet spot that you go back somewhere,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: but you haven't gone back in exactly the same way.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that's true for everywhere.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like if I think to myself I'm –
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm avoiding this because I'm scared of it not being what it was,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: then I've got to accept that it's not going to be.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to say it's not going to be, but also I can help that along.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can help that process along by maybe I can even be a bit different.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if I went back,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't go back to the same village I was in in Corfu,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: but if I did,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would go back and I would go back like,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be a travel writer.
• 14:42
  this time i'm going to sit in bars and just write about people
• 14:46
  and be really annoying
• 14:52
  that's what we all should do yeah yeah um so number two on your
• 14:58
  list is the john
• 15:00
  williams soundtrack to the box mega office flop raise the
• 15:04
  titanic oh i actually i
• 15:07
  have no idea this film existed and i kind of did a little bit
• 15:10
  of research before we
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: got on here and it's a clive cussler book
• 15:15
  with it is hit the and and yeah as so then i ended up on like
• 15:18
  the clive cussler
• 15:19
  wikipedia page it appears i could be wrong on this but it
• 15:22
  appears there's only two
• 15:25
  clive cussler books that were made into movies and both of them
• 15:27
  did not do very
• 15:28
  well and this is one of them that did um did quite poorly and
• 15:32
  the producer
• 15:33
  apparently said some some years later after the film had come
• 15:36
  out and not done well
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: that it would have been easier to lower the
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that a great quote?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just, yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love it so much for that,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: but it's just,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Lou Grade,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: he was a legendary producer at this point,
• 15:55
  and that's the film that drove him out of wanting to produce
• 15:59
  films because he was
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: so disillusioned by it.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, yeah, the making of it was so...
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So many things went wrong.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: They built this enormous model of the Titanic.
• 16:15
  And this was five years before Rob Ballard and his team
• 16:19
  discovered the Titanic,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: the National Geographic-backed.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was backed by Nat Geo.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: But they discovered that the Titanic was in two pieces.
• 16:30
  So at this time,
• 16:31
  there was a question mark whether it was in one piece or two
• 16:34
  pieces.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: It hadn't been found.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they went with one piece and they went with,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: like in the book,
• 16:43
  it's all in one piece so it could be brought up to the surface
• 16:47
  in some kind of
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: state.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the book, the Clive Custler thriller, is enjoyably ridiculous.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a Clive Custler fan, but he just had this...
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, have you read any of the Dirk Pitt books?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't, no.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: it's just kind of like,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: it's kind of a James Bond-like character with like,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:16
  underwater archaeology stuff and lots of very nautical kind of
• 17:21
  James Bond-like
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: character.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like Secret Service, you know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But just...
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: fueled by stories that are kind of powered by wonder,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: so that the core of the story,
• 17:39
  there's always something very interesting in a way that I find
• 17:43
  I would find
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: interesting for writing a story in my newsletter.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I go, oh, that's that's kind of an interesting idea.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then Clive Kessler writes it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a Clive Kessler fan, I'm not going to slag you off.
• 17:54
  because he very much has a huge audience,
• 17:59
  but I see them as kind of like fast-paced thrillers.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're not science writing.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're a bit kind of like... It's like a Dan Brown plot line.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's something that's got an interesting hook,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: and then it's somewhat ludicrous,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: but in a somewhat entertaining way.
• 18:25
  And the Race of the Titanic,
• 18:28
  the plot line is that the Titanic went down with this
• 18:32
  mysterious...
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: radioactive ice top on it called byzanium.
• 18:38
  And byzanium can be used to make a,
• 18:41
  you know,
• 18:42
  a bomb that puts nuclear bombs to shame.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so everyone wants to get hold of what's on the Titanic.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the Americans decide to raise the Titanic to get hold of it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a bit of a Cold War kind of plot line.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of the story.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: The weird thing is that around that,
• 19:05
  it's like this very pulpy plot line suddenly started attracting
• 19:13
  all these really
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: high-profile actors.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: it's like Jason Robards and Sir Alec Guinness is in it at one point,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: right at the end,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: almost like a throwaway character.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just absurd.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got these proper kind of thespians in it.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the work that's done with the visual effects was really,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: for the time,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: really impressive.
• 19:41
  And what they did for the actual Raising the Titanic was they
• 19:45
  built this model that
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: was 15 metres long.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it was too big to be in a, like a flotation tank to film.
• 19:54
  So they actually went out to sea and they raised it up at sea
• 20:00
  on a very calm day.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you see the scene of it coming up, which now kind of looks...
• 20:08
  You've got to have a certain level of suspended disbelief to
• 20:11
  watch that scene
• 20:12
  because it's slowed down and the water is just telling you that
• 20:19
  it's a model.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just ridiculous.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the way that the sounds are being used,
• 20:27
  the sounds kind of try to convey that it's a massive thing
• 20:31
  coming up and they do a
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: really good job of that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that scene is, I still find it quite impressive.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the film itself is filled with some really,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: really impressively done scenes,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: but the filming of it was just kind of cursed.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: The final scene,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: just to completely spoil the film for everyone,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to watch the film,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: stop listening.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: The byzanium is not on the Titanic.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually buried in a churchyard in Ireland.
• 21:04
  And so they filmed the final scene where they decide to not dig
• 21:07
  up the Byzantium
• 21:09
  because it would wreck the world order and they just leave it
• 21:12
  in a grave in a
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: churchyard in Ireland.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the scene with Alec Guinness.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: The day before they were going to film that scene,
• 21:20
  a massive storm went through and the church they were using was
• 21:23
  completely
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: destroyed.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was a real church, but it was destroyed.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So they had to move the filming of that scene.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think they moved it to...
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere in the States.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: and they had to,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:38
  extend the filming by so many months because of a bit of a
• 21:43
  natural disaster and all
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: these kinds of things that kind of happened with,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: with the film.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit of a curse production.
• 21:51
  But one of the things that I really appreciate is the
• 21:57
  soundtrack,
• 21:59
  which is by John Williams.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's recognised as some of his best work.
• 22:05
  I mean,
• 22:05
  John Williams has made some of the most iconic themes for
• 22:10
  movies ever.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: of the last 50 years, and for me, this one is right at the top.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's better than Jurassic Park.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's better than...
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: it just kind of...
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: When I say better,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's obviously different,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: but it's just it kind of...
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It has a soul that is just all of its own,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: and it's a very...
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's very moving, but it's telling a kind of a sad story.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very emotional soundtrack.
• 22:42
  And there's also a scene where there's a piece of music that is
• 22:46
  played while after
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: the Titanic has been raised,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: you have Dirk Pitt wandering round.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Wandering round inside it,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: looking up at the ruins of the,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: the famous staircase in the Titanic.
• 23:00
  And then he goes out and he goes to the flagpole and he puts up
• 23:05
  the original flag
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: of the Titanic.
• 23:07
  And there's a piece of music that plays with that and it's
• 23:10
  absolutely gorgeous.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And for that scene,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: for that whole scene,
• 23:14
  they actually bought a Greek ship and they kind of distressed
• 23:21
  it and they rebuilt
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: the insides to look like the Titanic.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So again,
• 23:25
  it's like they spent millions on doing that one scene and using
• 23:30
  it for some outside
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: filming.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of that went into the film and then it bombed.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: It just completely bombed at the box office.
• 23:41
  It cost $35 million to make,
• 23:46
  and the model of the Titanic was $7 million all in itself.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the film made $7 million.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the film is actually on YouTube.
• 23:59
  I noticed if you type Raise the Titanic into YouTube,
• 24:02
  I think the rights have lapsed.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just on there, so you can watch the entire thing.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: For free.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: For free.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: For free.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you're like, were you like 18 or 19 when this film comes out?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was, and I, um...
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when I first saw it,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: but it really made me,
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: watching the entire film,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: it made me fall in love with underwater stuff.
• 24:34
  I've ended up writing a lot about that in my newsletter
• 24:37
  recently because I'm
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: fascinated by this 71% of our planet that we hardly ever think about.
• 24:45
  And all these things that are kilometers under the sea that we
• 24:50
  only have a very
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: kind of very sketchy kind of idea of what's really down there.
• 24:55
  I recently wrote about the tallest waterfall in the world,
• 25:02
  which is an underwater waterfall.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's cold water underneath it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: warm water that is falling over a cliff near Iceland.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like three times, four times higher than the Burj Dubai.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's just insane.
• 25:18
  And these are all things that are under our oceans and we never
• 25:20
  think about them.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And Race to the Titanic was one of those films that made me think,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: this is a whole new world.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, in a way, it's like going into space, but it's right here.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's just all these alien things that we know nothing about.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 25:40
  side this is like sort of related but i used to work with this
• 25:42
  guy who would every
• 25:43
  once in a while he'd have he'd find some photo of some crazy
• 25:46
  underwater deep sea
• 25:48
  ocean creature and it would you know be crazy looking something
• 25:51
  or other and he
• 25:52
  would i just remember the type he would type in his emails i've
• 25:55
  said it before and
• 25:56
  i'll say it again fuck the ocean for some reason that always
• 26:01
  pops up in my head
• 26:03
  when something crazy like that and i think it's it's just his
• 26:06
  way of saying i don't
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: ever want to go down there and
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's the other thing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: the idea of the sublime,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: the thing that calls mountain climbers,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: this idea of going to a place that you're in awe,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: but you're terrified as well.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're in that place of just like, oh, wow.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the ocean for me.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the idea of going down in a submersible space.
• 26:35
  just just fills me with horror but i'm still drawn by it yeah
• 26:40
  right right so the
• 26:42
  soundtrack is the thing you listed are you still have you been
• 26:47
  listening to the
• 26:47
  soundtrack kind of throughout your life and like like did you
• 26:50
  turn it on the last
• 26:51
  few months and like and what situation is it when you're just
• 26:55
  like you're making
• 26:56
  dinner or you like need to get in a mood for writing or are you
• 27:00
  like trying to run
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: fast uh
• 27:03
  for training for a marathon or something or like what's going
• 27:06
  on when you turn the
• 27:07
  soundtrack soundtrack was it was really you know i the the the
• 27:12
  main theme has been
• 27:14
  on youtube for a long time and i've listened to various
• 27:17
  versions of that but i
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Recently,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: because of the popularity of movie themes,
• 27:22
  you've got small orchestras who have started doing versions of
• 27:29
  popular themes.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So like,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: like such and such does,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Berlin Philharmonic does the theme to ER or something like that.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those things get huge amounts of listens on YouTube.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really great way of...
• 27:44
  of promoting an orchestra,
• 27:47
  but also,
• 27:48
  you know,
• 27:48
  they start releasing albums of them now.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what I saw recently,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: quite recently,
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: about a year ago,
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a Polish orchestra who recorded the entire Race the Titanic
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: soundtrack.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's all on there because there hasn't ever been
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: As far as I'm aware,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: an official Race the Titanic soundtrack released by,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: in association with John Williams.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I discovered that I started listening to that while I was walking.
• 28:19
  And I've also discovered in a weird way,
• 28:22
  it kind of suits my diet of music for going to the gym.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes when I'm on the way to the gym,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want something that's really high energy and is kind of like,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just slap on some seer or just something that's just almost,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: almost absurdly.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: positive and, you know, let's go, all that kind of stuff.
• 28:49
  And other times I'll want something that's a bit more kind of
• 28:51
  quieter and more reflective.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this has been, this has become one of them.
• 28:56
  So it's like it puts me into a,
• 28:58
  it puts me into a thinking mood,
• 29:00
  but into a kind of a
• 29:02
  I think the mood it puts me into is kind of reconnecting with
• 29:07
  various parts of my life.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of a soundtrack.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say it's a soundtrack for my life,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: but it's a soundtrack that reminds me of various things in my life.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's very good for...
• 29:19
  putting me into a place where I'm thinking about a story that
• 29:25
  I'm putting together.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And with my stories,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm generally pulling on threads and trying to knit them together in some
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: interesting way.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, oh, this makes it easier to do that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a thinking soundtrack for me.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:43
  You put it on like a repeat when you're writing,
• 29:47
  just like keep it going for a couple hours.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of thing.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, it's, it can be really good for that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, sometimes I'll just want sound of a coffee shop.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like white noise,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: but sometimes I want music like that,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: but it's not intrusive as well.
• 30:05
  If I,
• 30:06
  I find,
• 30:06
  I don't know about you,
• 30:07
  but I can't listen to music with lyrics when I'm writing.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:12
  can you know yeah it's kind of um sometimes if it's really
• 30:17
  familiar but like not i
• 30:19
  don't want to i don't want to be trying to listen to new music
• 30:21
  and try to come up
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: with words in my own head it's kind of difficult you know um that then i
• 30:27
  unintentionally end up stealing lyrics for for what i'm writing
• 30:30
  i'm just kidding i
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: don't do that i don't want to be a stretch well i
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is something I do have a bit of a fear of, reading so much.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Part of my job is just I need to read all the things.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And after a while,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: if you read so much that you forget what you've read,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always terrified of that.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: I thought you were going to say,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: you accidentally stole some Kendrick Lamar lyrics in one of your pieces.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that too, but... That happens, right?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: We all do that, yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But don't we all?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Who among us has not?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if we all say it...
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: If we all say it,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: then,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: then we can do a lawsuit together,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: a counter lawsuit together.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it belongs to no one.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Number three is this book,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Micro Adventures,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: by this guy you and I both know named Alistair Humphreys.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Who's a countryman of yours.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Swell guy.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Al Humphreys, he's also how I know you.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Is that how we got introduced?
• 31:42
  Well,
• 31:44
  he was mentioning you and I clicked through and I started
• 31:47
  reading you because of
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was the time when you met him.
• 31:52
  I think he came over and you met him and there was a photo of
• 31:55
  you having a meal together.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: Burritos at El Taco de Mexico in Denver.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, that was a good one.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: I miss that burrito.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: So did you know him before this book came out?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: Or what's the... I...
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: When the book came out, I didn't.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I met him a few years later.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I met him at the launch of one of his later books,
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: which is My Midsummer Morning,
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: about his jaunt across Spain.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing was...
• 32:34
  I hadn't met him,
• 32:35
  but I knew him when he was actually doing that walk across
• 32:39
  Spain.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So for anyone who hasn't read it, it's a really fun book.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: He sets himself the challenge of going in the footsteps of Laurie Lee,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: a writer in the 1930s,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: where he basically busked...
• 32:55
  his way across Spain,
• 32:59
  and was earning the money to eat from playing his violin.
• 33:03
  And Al tried to do the same,
• 33:06
  and by Al's description,
• 33:10
  he has terrible musical talent.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: So he learned to play this violin in six months,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: and the film of him doing it is wonderful,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: because it's just,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: he's really struggling.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time he's ready to fly out to Spain and do this walk,
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: trying to earn enough money by busking to get enough food to eat,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: he's admitting to himself that he's not very good at doing it,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: but he does it anyway,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: which is fantastic.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the film,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: watching it kind of makes me cringe now because it's like,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: it's so,
• 33:53
  it's so brave to stand in a square with your violin knowing
• 33:58
  that you're kind of,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: you're struggling.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then just to play.
• 34:05
  And when he gets his first euro,
• 34:08
  when somebody gives him his first euro,
• 34:10
  he is just overcome.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And isn't that the feeling that we all want from that kind of adventure?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I was living in,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was staying in Portugal for two months at the time,
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: and he set off from Vigo in the northwest of Spain.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: that was literally, I think it's 20 miles away from where I was.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that he'd just arrived.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know why he was there, but I knew he'd just arrived.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I sent him an email saying, can I pop over and buy you a coffee?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he sent me an email back saying,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: thanks,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Mike,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: that'd be great,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm afraid it's against the rules.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he never told me what that meant.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I just,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: from that,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I said to my,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was there with my partner and I said to my partner,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: he sounds like he thinks I'm a dick.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's not very nice, is it?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: But then the book came out and I understood.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't want to, you know, get the help of anyone.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of didn't want to meet anyone he knew.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he didn't want to rely on anyone buying him anything.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was 100% him, and I respect that now.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, it was like...
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:29
  I think the violin's one of the worst instruments to suck at,
• 35:32
  like for other people.
• 35:33
  If you're not good at playing the violin,
• 35:35
  it's excruciating to try to...
• 35:38
  I played it at school.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was awful.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 35:41
  They had a thing where they decided which musical instrument
• 35:47
  you would be assigned
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: by handing around the mouthpiece of a flute.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you could make a noise with it,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: you would get assigned the flute.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you couldn't, you'd get whatever else there was.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't get a bloody noise out of this thing.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: blowing away,
• 36:04
  trying to get something because I really wanted to learn to
• 36:07
  play the flute.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I couldn't.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't make a sound.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so they put me on violin and I hated it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: They did the bass drum.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: Was that the last thing handed around?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Or what?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's super chill.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: You just hit it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else, I would love to play the bass drum.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I got the violin and I was not happy.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So me watching that film just makes me cringe now.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know how hard it is to learn the violin.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: But Al did it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he earned enough money to pay for his food.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of Al.
• 36:48
  He's just kind of like,
• 36:49
  okay,
• 36:49
  I'm going to set myself this ridiculous challenge.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then my superpower is I'm going to do it.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's Al's superpower.
• 36:58
  It's just like where the rest of us would successfully talk
• 37:03
  ourselves out of it.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you wouldn't.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have this superpower as well.
• 37:09
  I would have talked myself out well before he got on the plane
• 37:14
  and he left his,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: and he really committed.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: He left his credit cards behind.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: He had no way out.
• 37:21
  So it's like land,
• 37:23
  you know,
• 37:24
  play the violin and that way you won't starve.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: I remember there were like,
• 37:30
  there's like some part where he like finds a ketchup packet on
• 37:33
  the ground and he's
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: really excited.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's like five calories or something like that.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: He just eats it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think, I think that's what it is.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: he,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: so micro adventures was,
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: so Al was,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: right out of,
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think he was 23 bicycled around the world for like for four years.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then I believe the timeline for him,
• 37:55
  so he sort of became known or famous for these big adventures
• 38:00
  that he did,
• 38:00
  like walking across India or like backpacking across Iceland or
• 38:04
  rowing across the
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Atlantic ocean and the bike trip,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: of course.
• 38:08
  And I don't know if micro adventures coincided with him having
• 38:11
  kids,
• 38:12
  but this is sort of him.
• 38:15
  talking about how you can find adventure in these small ways
• 38:18
  near where you live or wherever.
• 38:20
  And I think the phrase I always think of when he says
• 38:23
  micro-adventures is,
• 38:24
  go sleep on a hill.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's sort of what he does.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: So the book,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure what year it came out,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: but you know when you encountered the book,
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: obviously.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: When was that?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think it was...
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was actually a couple of years after it came out.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was rediscovering my love of going camping at this time,
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: but I wasn't that keen on going to campsites.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like...
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love going out into the outdoors,
• 39:00
  but I really didn't like that feeling at the end of it where
• 39:03
  you had to fit into
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: this very rigid structure of where you had to sleep.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like,
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:11
  sometimes it'd be really fun just to kind of sleep under a tree
• 39:13
  or whatever,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: and that,
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: that felt like that book felt like giving me permission to,
• 39:22
  And so I kind of really loved the message of it,
• 39:26
  which was also,
• 39:26
  it was also tying in with,
• 39:31
  my growing awareness of how difficult it was to sleep outdoors
• 39:35
  in England because
• 39:36
  you know England is I'm now in Scotland I'm living on the west
• 39:40
  coast of Scotland
• 39:41
  and there's a thing called right to roam where essentially you
• 39:44
  can go anywhere as
• 39:46
  long as it's not excuse me as long as it's not um you know
• 39:50
  private private property
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: as as such it's
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: It allows you to just roam as much as you like.
• 39:59
  And essentially,
• 40:01
  if you leave no trace behind you,
• 40:04
  you can just bed down anywhere.
• 40:07
  And in England,
• 40:08
  that is technically illegal except for one place,
• 40:11
  which is Dartmoor.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And recently,
• 40:14
  a landowner who was a hedge fund manager went after that rule
• 40:20
  and tried to have it
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: overturned.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he was defeated in court, which was a great...
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: a great thing to see.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so difficult to go wild camping.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say wild camping,
• 40:31
  you can just literally be going along with your baby bag and
• 40:35
  just waiting for night
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: to fall and just bedding down where you are.
• 40:40
  And then you get up in the morning and nobody could tell that
• 40:43
  you've been there.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: That sometimes is wild camping.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it should be a thing that...
• 40:52
  It should be a thing in England that a lot more people are
• 40:55
  doing because they want to.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a very...
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: It can feel like more of a socially weird thing than maybe it should be.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't like that feeling at all.
• 41:10
  If you are...
• 41:11
  And also in England,
• 41:12
  let's face it,
• 41:13
  the wildlife is not going to attack you.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: You might get kind of like slightly chewed by a badger or something.
• 41:21
  that's about it we don't have bears you know we have the worst
• 41:24
  we have are ticks
• 41:26
  and midges especially up here in Scotland and if you if you can
• 41:31
  stay safe from them
• 41:33
  that's pretty much it so so it should be it should be ideal for
• 41:37
  this kind of wild
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: camping but it's
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really, you know, it is a thing and people do it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And microadventures has really helped people do it.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not as much of a thing as I would like to see, really.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a very few countries have that same rule.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: I know Norway does and maybe a couple other Scandinavian.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Norway's is like you have to be, I think, 150 meters from a building.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: But other than that, it's wide open.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Whether or not it's private property, it's pretty great.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Excuse me.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Did you end up camping with Al at some point?
• 42:18
  um yes after well it was interesting because there was a bunch
• 42:21
  of about 30 of us i
• 42:23
  think and we all went to uh hathasage uh the edge of the peak
• 42:29
  district um in
• 42:30
  yorkshire where and it was where alpkitt's um uh headquarters
• 42:37
  is out being the
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: company that
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Does all this wonderful gear, including bivvy bags.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: My bivvy bags are at Alpkit.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I went for, and it was for the launch of my Midsummer Morning.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was in an evening.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then after the event, Al led about 30 of us up.
• 42:56
  into some woods and then we just kind of had a big fire and we
• 43:00
  sat around talking
• 43:01
  and it was it was really nice but it was interesting at the end
• 43:04
  of it because all
• 43:05
  of a sudden kind of like we were talking about okay we should
• 43:08
  all sort of we should
• 43:10
  all sort of bed down really and find somewhere to sleep and
• 43:13
  it's like where's Al
• 43:14
  yeah he's gone he's gone that's what he does he's like he's
• 43:17
  gone to find his his
• 43:19
  special place and we'll never find out where that is so that
• 43:23
  was that was kind of
• 43:24
  fun to see but but and then I saw on social media that he got
• 43:30
  up at like five
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: o'clock the next morning and caught a train and uh
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because he had to chauffeur his kids to school, probably.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably that kind of thing, yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, number four.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Electric blankets.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you see, this one makes me sound really old.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a bit kind of...
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit in contrast to number three,
• 43:57
  which is all about sleeping outdoors and seeing the outdoors as
• 44:00
  this wonderful...
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: tough segue here.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: But in a way, it isn't.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because the thing that I write about in my newsletter...
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: is this incredible rise in the ways that solar power can be used.
• 44:23
  And one of the things I wrote about recently was a Glasgow
• 44:28
  teenager who perfected a
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: design and submitted it for a competition.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was designed for a solar blanket for homeless people.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: And essentially, it's a blanket.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: It charges up during the day.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: It has a solar cell, and the solar cell charges.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then at night, you turn it on.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: You wrap it around yourself.
• 44:50
  keeps you warm i mean that's a fabulous thing for for for
• 44:55
  everyone everyone who's
• 44:56
  outdoors as well as people who are outdoors because because
• 45:00
  they don't have an
• 45:00
  indoors to go to at that at that time that is that is a
• 45:05
  wonderful thing and it's
• 45:06
  kind of an extension of it's an extension of electric blankets
• 45:11
  and electric
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: blankets have been around for ages and i
• 45:14
  I'm now at the age now,
• 45:15
  I'm in Scotland,
• 45:16
  and it gets cold in the winter up here.
• 45:19
  And so having an electric blanket on when you're in a room and
• 45:22
  it's bloody cold and
• 45:24
  you don't want to turn the heating on because electric bills
• 45:26
  are kind of painful at
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: the moment...
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you're kind of,
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to bed and you're,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: it's just nice to turn on an electric blanket and get in.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: it's just,
• 45:38
  there are a few things that are in life that are just quite as
• 45:42
  welcoming as an
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: electric blanket that warms your ass.
• 45:47
  You know,
• 45:48
  let's face it,
• 45:48
  it's just,
• 45:49
  it's a real,
• 45:50
  it's a real deep human experience that
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just... Yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really nice,
• 46:02
  but it's also a reminder for me of a technology that has wider
• 46:07
  applications,
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm interested to see them happening now.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember when I started getting into outdoor gear,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: you have these little hand warmers,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: these little kind of gel packs with a little button in it,
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: like a piezoelectric button.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: You crack the button,
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole thing goes solid, but it warms up massively.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's like, you know, it warms your hands for like 20 minutes.
• 46:30
  And then you kind of,
• 46:32
  you reset it by putting it into boiling water and it goes
• 46:35
  liquid again.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can do that again the next time.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm thinking,
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: why haven't we had the equivalent of that,
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: but with a solar cell?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: there's so many applications of solar cells that are coming out for,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: gadget charges and so on.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what about warmth?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there is stuff.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's a lot of stuff out there that I'm just unaware of.
• 47:03
  But I would have thought that something that just kind of uses
• 47:06
  a solar cell to warm you up.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're well overdue some applications of that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just like an inner liner for your jacket.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Just imagine in the morning,
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: you could put a bag,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: just like a gel,
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: you stuff it inside your boots.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then you turn it on for 10 minutes.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you get into your boots,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: when you're camping,
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: you go out in the morning,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: your boots are freezing cold and,
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: there may even be something in them.
• 47:39
  You know,
• 47:39
  but it's like...
• 47:40
  But it's just putting your feet into warm boots in the morning.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why that hasn't been a thing.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds quite luxurious in my experience, I've got to say.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: Huh.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: That is interesting.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know anything about... Am I, like...
• 48:00
  Thinking of electric blankets as a creative work,
• 48:07
  and who invented the electric blanket?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is a rabbit hole I should really go down,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: because I obviously feel strongly about it,
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: so yeah,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: I should get writing about that.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: Heated gloves were the big thing in the US a few years ago.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't there something like on bikes as well,
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: where you have heated parts of handlebars on bikes?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, maybe the thing I've seen is the big muffs.
• 48:38
  Those go way over,
• 48:39
  over your,
• 48:40
  it's like a box almost of insulated material.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that they're electric.
• 48:44
  I think they just like block enough wind to make it like its
• 48:48
  own little microclimate in there.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, number five, this is such a big jump from three to four to five.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: Number five is distant lights seen at night.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: And, uh, first thing I thought of is, uh,
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: God, never mind.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna have to delete this.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: I can't even remember the name of the book now.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: Antoine Saint-Exupéry's book, the flying book.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my God.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Wind, Sand, and Stars.
• 49:19
  That's the first thing I thought of was Wind,
• 49:20
  Sand,
• 49:21
  and Stars and how they were...
• 49:22
  doing early mail flights from europe to africa and basically
• 49:27
  they don't know where
• 49:28
  anything is and there's nothing transmitting anything so
• 49:31
  they're trying to figure
• 49:31
  out where the where the the coast is by seeing lights from a
• 49:36
  plane you know like
• 49:37
  wow where where are the cities you know where are we gonna land
• 49:40
  um which is which
• 49:41
  is wild but yours is uh completely different so how it makes
• 49:45
  you feel is what what
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: you're talking about
• 49:47
  Well,
• 49:48
  you know,
• 49:48
  you describing that,
• 49:49
  I'm sure that's a book that would make me feel that.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: what I feel when I see distant lights is...
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: I remember one example in particular,
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: and it goes back to...
• 50:03
  sleeping up doors it was me in my bivvy bag on when was it it
• 50:07
  was it was like
• 50:08
  February I think it was on a beach in North Yorkshire and it
• 50:13
  was very cold and
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: rainy um
• 50:19
  the next morning but the night before when I bedded down it was
• 50:23
  very very clear and
• 50:24
  it was absolutely starless and I could see the next town up the
• 50:30
  coast and I could
• 50:31
  see it very very clearly and all the lights just you know just
• 50:34
  kind of necklaced
• 50:35
  all the way up to the cliffs and I was just I just watched I
• 50:40
  just sat there and
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: watched it for hours in a way
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: In a way, I'm used to kind of watching stars.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that kind of...
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was watching it in exactly the same way I watch stars,
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: and I was just feeling much the same thing,
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: which is like,
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 50:56
  there's so much out there to experience and to learn and to
• 51:04
  just kind of go and
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: see.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing about that was...
• 51:09
  That was the first time I started thinking about what Rebecca
• 51:12
  Solnit talks about
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: when she talks about the blue of distance.
• 51:17
  So when you're looking out and you're seeing distant mountains
• 51:20
  and they're hidden,
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: they're slightly hidden from you by that kind of fading,
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: that blue fading that you see because of the atmosphere and the way.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very appealing thing.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it pulls you towards them.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of think, I want to climb that mountain.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to go in those mountains as well.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to keep going.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to see what's over those mountains.
• 51:42
  And her point is that we usually interpret that as,
• 51:47
  oh,
• 51:47
  I need to immediately go and do that.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: instead of enjoying the feeling itself.
• 51:54
  So she's saying,
• 51:55
  when you have a desire to do something,
• 51:56
  appreciate that feeling for what it is.
• 51:59
  And it doesn't mean that you immediately have to go and conquer
• 52:03
  the thing that is
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: calling to you.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can just say,
• 52:09
  The experience of it calling to you is a thing in itself that
• 52:13
  you can appreciate
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: and it can make you a more hopeful and interested person in the world.
• 52:19
  And I so I feel that when I look at I look at distant lights at
• 52:24
  night because I think.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, all those people.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because those lights are created by people.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: All those people, all those stories.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like,
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: what am I doing with...
• 52:37
  What am I doing and how can I maybe kind of like steer myself
• 52:42
  towards learning a
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: few of those stories?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: So in a way, it's like the same feeling I get as going into a library.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all these books, I could read any of them.
• 52:54
  It could be frustrating to me,
• 52:59
  the knowledge that I'm never going to read all of them.
• 53:02
  But having the choice is a really powerful and empowering
• 53:07
  thing,
• 53:08
  because it means,
• 53:08
  oh,
• 53:09
  I...
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: I get to choose to do all these cool things.
• 53:13
  I can't do all of them,
• 53:14
  but I do get to choose something that's really cool.
• 53:18
  And it means that there's no,
• 53:20
  in a way,
• 53:20
  it means there's no time to waste.
• 53:23
  But it's also that feeling itself is a thing I can appreciate
• 53:27
  as myself now.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it can make me a better person.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: It can make me a person who isn't going, oh, everything's boring.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, there's so much out there.
• 53:39
  And I feel like I'm very much a person who will go to their
• 53:43
  deathbed having exactly
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: the same number of books to read as I do now.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just... Well, I think you'll have more.
• 53:55
  quite possibly yeah this also makes me feel like uh how you
• 54:02
  maybe you and i both
• 54:03
  plan dream up book ideas like yes i'm enjoying the blue of
• 54:08
  distance right now
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to go over there and write the book.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just enjoying dreaming it up right now.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's great.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: All the, you know, possibility can be so intoxicating.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, at some point reality kicks in and that could be fun too.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I am a bit of a dreamer.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that can be a, there's positives and negatives to that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 54:35
  yeah for sure i wondered if you have a similar um when you talk
• 54:40
  about the you know
• 54:42
  what you what you said in your email was uh look at all these
• 54:45
  new places visibly
• 54:46
  inhabited by all these interesting strangers crack on then it
• 54:50
  made me think of
• 54:51
  being in a place like hong kong where it's so much more densely
• 54:56
  populated than
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: anywhere in america i believe but like looking up at these
• 55:02
  extremely tall apartment buildings with all these windows in
• 55:04
  them and knowing how
• 55:05
  many people were in those buildings and just like the you know
• 55:08
  one block radius of
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: that city compared to almost anywhere in the U.S.
• 55:13
  you know or I mean really even probably the UK right like
• 55:16
  London doesn't have super
• 55:17
  tall buildings and like the density but like yeah how many
• 55:21
  lives are packed into
• 55:23
  those spots compared to what we think of as you know you know
• 55:27
  urban density here do
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: you have a similar reaction to that sort of thing
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 55:32
  And it's also,
• 55:34
  you know,
• 55:35
  these people are living lives in such different ways.
• 55:38
  There's all sorts of,
• 55:40
  you know,
• 55:41
  you can be kind of,
• 55:43
  you can be a bit kind of,
• 55:46
  what's the...
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to describe it,
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: but you can look at these things and think,
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: what can I learn from this for my own benefit?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, which is a bit kind of predatorial in a way.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 55:58
  what can I take away from this that I can turn into a buzzword
• 56:01
  and sell a book on?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's not a good way...
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: But everyone kind of does that.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're always kind of like, what lesson can I learn from this?
• 56:12
  But also you can just appreciate that other human beings are
• 56:16
  living lives in very
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: different ways to you.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the things I learned from travel writing.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: There are the things that...
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: that unite people worldwide,
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: and I honestly think one of them is that people are generally just decent
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: worldwide.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: 90-something percent of people just want to live their life without,
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: without getting into too much trouble and strife.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing is, like, humour is a really interesting one.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: People laugh, you know, people laugh in much the same way.
• 56:53
  The way the joke may be different and the stuff around the
• 57:00
  humour itself may be different.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can see a classic travel writer going somewhere,
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: not being able to speak a language at all,
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: and just goofing around,
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: and a kid laughs.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then you think, oh, that's what human beings do.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: They laugh.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the things that...
• 57:24
  is different and is always really interesting is the way that
• 57:30
  people live their
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: lives in ways that you kind of think,
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: how would I do that?
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: People whose biology is different because they live at high altitudes.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting as well.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: People who have the hunter's response to cold.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: An example, there's a Finnish stuntwoman.
• 57:56
  that I watch her Instagram channel and she says and she did a
• 58:03
  video where she said
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: so here in Finland we have this thing called Avanto
• 58:08
  And basically she stood there in furs and real,
• 58:11
  you know,
• 58:12
  proper,
• 58:12
  proper cold weather stuff.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Everything snow around her.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's got an axe.
• 58:17
  And then she goes to the edge of a lake and she just hacks away
• 58:22
  with this axe until
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: there's a hole.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then she just jumps in it.
• 58:26
  And Avanto is this thing where it's like ice water swimming and
• 58:31
  they just immerse
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: themselves,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 58:32
  just up to here and they just splash around for a bit and then
• 58:36
  they go indoors and
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: get warm.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's apparently normal.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is not,
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 58:46
  I have people looking at me like I'm a lunatic when I say I
• 58:49
  like going in the sea
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: for a dip here,
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: which I do at certain times of the year.
• 58:54
  Cold water swimming,
• 58:55
  you know,
• 58:56
  our mutual friend Anna is the expert on that.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: But throwing yourself in a lake that's iced over,
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just different ways of living.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just interesting.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's the stories.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's the stories.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: We were talking about this earlier about the power of just...
• 59:16
  just writing something where you're telling a story that's from
• 59:19
  somewhere else
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: about somebody else.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the kind of travel writing I love,
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: when you just learn,
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: these people are living in a totally different way to me.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're still human beings,
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: so we have that commonality,
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: but they're just approaching their lives in such different ways.
• 59:38
  and i love that i love learning i love learning that and i now
• 59:43
  love learning the
• 59:44
  science around that as well yeah yeah what makes us swim in
• 59:49
  non-liquid uh bodies of
• 59:52
  water versus liquid bodies of water that are very cold and how
• 59:59
  human beings adapt
• 1:00:00
  to heat as well you know there's been stuff recently i don't
• 1:00:03
  know if you saw it
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: about
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: sauna culture seems to help with cognitive health.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like people who are really getting regular doses of really,
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: really being in really hot places,
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: really hot and steamy kind of rooms.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: It seems to be helping their brains.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's super interesting, all of it.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: Man, you might have to build a sauna next.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's not a big sauna culture where you live, as far as I know.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't.
• 1:00:38
  There's not a big building houses that stay warm culture
• 1:00:42
  either,
• 1:00:42
  unfortunately.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hence the electric blankets.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hence the electric blankets, exactly.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this has been super fun, Mike.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for doing it.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Always a pleasure.