Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Terrorist kills 11 worshipers in Pittsburgh synagogue: What can prevent these attacks?

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Terrorist kills 11 worshipers in Pittsburgh synagogue: What can prevent these attacks? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or a soon to be
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Speaker 1: parent and expecting mom or dad. Please don't give them
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Speaker 1: By doubt about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online
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Speaker 1: cyber security. Oh yes, my children are online, and you
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Speaker 1: Payments starting six. I would much rather have that than
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Speaker 1: yet another plastic baby doll or god forbid, a toy gun.
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Speaker 1: Just what I don't want. Joined the Justice Nation. Crime
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Speaker 1: stops here dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This
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Speaker 1: is an ABC News special report. Good morning. We're coming
1:48
Speaker 1: on the air right now with breaking news. For those
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Speaker 1: of you watching with young children in the room, you
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Speaker 1: may want to ask them to leave right now. There
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Speaker 1: has been a shooting at a synagogue. One call or
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Speaker 1: sounded like they may have been shot. A man agonal breathing,
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Speaker 1: Several calls of persons faltering at place within the structure.
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Speaker 1: I got one of the three back in one right now,
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Speaker 1: reached on four down in neutrial new or of the
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Speaker 1: time working the problem. Tall white male, short hair, white
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Speaker 1: blue shirt. I'm going in the chilling words of the
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Speaker 1: synagogue shooting suspect posted online online before this evil man
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Speaker 1: opens fire with an A R fifteen on a child
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Speaker 1: and infants naming ceremony, yelling all Jews must die, killing
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Speaker 1: eleven injuring six, including four police officers, while the victims
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Speaker 1: are praying. Here in America, this evil hate crime has happened.
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Speaker 1: Can you even imagine? I was thinking back to Sunday morning,
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Speaker 1: when I was sitting there with John, David and Lucy
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Speaker 1: and my eighties seven year old mother and my husband praying.
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Speaker 1: I was thinking about my dad as a matter of fact,
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Speaker 1: in that moment of silence, can you imagine gunshots breaking out?
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Speaker 1: I Yancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. We are live and taking your calls
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Speaker 1: in the aftermath the most deadly worship shooting in recent history.
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Speaker 1: Listen moments ago, police reporting there are multiple casualties with
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Speaker 1: three officers shot. The suspect is in customing. This all
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Speaker 1: happening at the Tree of Life Synagogue in the area
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Speaker 1: of Wilkins and Shady Avenues in Pittsburgh's Squirrel Hill neighborhood.
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Speaker 1: Multiple law enforcement agencies now responding. Police are telling people
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Speaker 1: in that area to avoid the area, and they are
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Speaker 1: also telling people who live in that neighborhood to stay
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Speaker 1: in their houses and lock their door, saying it is
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Speaker 1: not safe to be out. You're hearing from our friends
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Speaker 1: at ABC. Joining me right now is a very special guest,
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Speaker 1: in addition to Emmy Award winning investigative reporter Aunt Harris,
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Speaker 1: Brian Levin, Joe Scott Morgan, Dr Bethany Marshall. Bruce Alexander
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Speaker 1: joining me right now is a member of the congregation.
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Speaker 1: His wife scheduled to be there that morning, but something
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Speaker 1: occurred for her not to attend. His friends were victims.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, John Pashynski, John, thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. Tell me what happened that morning. It's
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Speaker 1: the morning my wife normally with attended service, as she
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Speaker 1: goes on thist every Saturday morning. We had a chore
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Speaker 1: to run, and so she did not go, and we
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Speaker 1: got in the car to drive to run their chore.
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Speaker 1: And she was driving, I received a text act from
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Speaker 1: one of our close Muslim friends asking if we were okay.
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Speaker 1: I read the message to my wife and said, what's
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Speaker 1: he talking about? So I called him and he told
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Speaker 1: us what was happening, and he had contacted us to
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Speaker 1: make sure we were okay. Moments later, I got a
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Speaker 1: text from a close friend in Israel asking if we
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Speaker 1: were all right, So they knew in Israel before my
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Speaker 1: wife and I knew. At that point, we decided to
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Speaker 1: abandon our shore and we tried to drive to the synagogue,
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Speaker 1: even though we were told it was still on active
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Speaker 1: shooting scene. We did not want to abandon their synagogue
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Speaker 1: in its time of need. Of course, we were stuffed
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Speaker 1: at the police lines and we parked the car and
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Speaker 1: actually tried to hike in, but we came again onto
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Speaker 1: police lines and more stuff from going forward. Very close
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Speaker 1: friends were in there. One of our close friends was
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Speaker 1: killed and then there is seriously injured. What was Mr
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Speaker 1: Pashnsky the service that was going on with at a brisk.
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Speaker 1: The building is very large and there are three different
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Speaker 1: congregations that meet and used that building. So our congregation
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Speaker 1: was going to hold its regular Saturday morning service, but
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Speaker 1: one of the other congregations was holding a brisk which
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Speaker 1: is the ritual circumcision ceremony for a baby boy on
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Speaker 1: the eighth day of life. Mr Pashynsky. When you arrived,
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Speaker 1: what did you observe? There were police lines about two
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Speaker 1: blocks away. All the roads were blocked off and they
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Speaker 1: had police at each road, turning people away and directing
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Speaker 1: traffic around the area. What have you been told, Mr
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Speaker 1: Pastrinsky regarding what the victims, the ones that lived observed
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Speaker 1: noticed what happened inside the synagogue. One of our congregants
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Speaker 1: did escape. He heard the He was inside already, He
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Speaker 1: heard the gunshots and was able to run out. He
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Speaker 1: then stopped other congregants who were arriving to attend the
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Speaker 1: service from going into the building, but they were in
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Speaker 1: the parking lot already. H Our Jewish Community Center opened
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Speaker 1: its door Saturday and set up a gathering place for
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Speaker 1: each of the three congregations, and we went there to
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Speaker 1: be with some of the members from our synagogue, including
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Speaker 1: the wife of our friend who turned out was killed,
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Speaker 1: and she was waiting there to hear word from the authorities.
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Speaker 1: Of course, we were all very concerned because he was
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Speaker 1: one of the people who were unaccounted for, and that
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Speaker 1: in and by itself was a very entire news for us,
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Speaker 1: since we were able to ascertain who was safe, and
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Speaker 1: so when there was someone we put in the account board,
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Speaker 1: that was very bad. The gunman who opened fire on
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Speaker 1: a Pittsburgh synagogue this Saturday morning murdered eleven people injuring others.
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Speaker 1: We now know him to be forty six year old
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Speaker 1: Robert Bowers, a longtime anti Semite who often complained on
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Speaker 1: social media about the quote infestation of Jews. To my
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Speaker 1: longtime friend Emmy Award winning reporter Art Harris Art, it
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Speaker 1: hurts me to even repeat those words, and sometimes after
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Speaker 1: one hate attack after the next, after the next, after
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Speaker 1: the next, on Jeeves, I don't understand it. I don't
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Speaker 1: understand the hatred where it came from. Everyone described him
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Speaker 1: as a ghost, that he lived alone in the small apartment,
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Speaker 1: was very was very amiable to people around him, but
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Speaker 1: on the on the internet, on a hate phil website
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Speaker 1: called gab, his hatred just gushed out until it exploded
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Speaker 1: that morning outside the synagogue, after he had seen apparently
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Speaker 1: a video about the caravan of emigrants coming towards America
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Speaker 1: and a Jewish group that welcomed people like that into
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Speaker 1: the country and we settled them. He exploded went to
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Speaker 1: the synagogue with his gun. He had twenty one guns,
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Speaker 1: Nancy registered legally in his name. He had an a
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Speaker 1: R Colt of R fifteen Cult rifle, and he had
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Speaker 1: three blocks. And he busted into the synagogue in the
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Speaker 1: middle of the most sacred day of the week, as
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Speaker 1: as people were getting ready they were praying. There were
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Speaker 1: some people in the in the kitchen getting food ready
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Speaker 1: for a for another service, and and he began opening
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Speaker 1: fire with with just gunning down whoever was in front
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Speaker 1: of him. People were hiding in the closet holding their breath.
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Speaker 1: This was a test of courage and endurance for those inside.
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Speaker 1: Nancy and as you as you hear about some of
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Speaker 1: the individual acts of endurance. There was one man who
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Speaker 1: was afraid his phone might might be blinking red and
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Speaker 1: he was just praying. The guy didn't have a flashlight.
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Speaker 1: He opened the door to that room and couldn't see in,
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Speaker 1: and he left. Another person was hiding in the closet
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Speaker 1: as the police finally busted in after the nine one
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Speaker 1: one call. We've just heard SWAT SWAT teams rushing to
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Speaker 1: the gunfire as they're now trained to do an active
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Speaker 1: shooter situation. Uh, and they engaged him on the third floor.
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Speaker 1: By then he had killed eleven people. Uh, and he
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Speaker 1: got into a gun paddle to the police. Three were
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Speaker 1: injured and one of the SWAT officers hurt him. Say
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Speaker 1: he wanted quote all Jews to die. Seventy five year
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Speaker 1: old Joyce Feinberg of Oakland, sixty five year old Richard
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Speaker 1: Gottfried of Ross Township, ninety seven year old Rose Mallinger
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Speaker 1: of Squirrel Hill, sixty six year old Jerry Rabinowitz of Edgewood,
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Speaker 1: fifty nine year old Cecil Rosenthal of Squirrel Hill, UM
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Speaker 1: fifty four year old David Rosenthal. David and Cecil Rosenthal
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Speaker 1: were brothers. Eighty four year old Bernice Simon of Wilkinsburg,
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Speaker 1: eighty six year old Sylvan Simon of Wilkinsburg. Bernice and
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Speaker 1: Sylvan were husband and wife, seventy one year old Daniel
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Speaker 1: Stein of Squirrel Hill, eighty eight year old Melvin Wax
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Speaker 1: of Squirrel Hill, and sixty nine year old Irving Younger
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Speaker 1: of Mount Washington. You are hearing the names of those
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Speaker 1: murdered gunned down at worship as they were praying on
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Speaker 1: Saturday with me. Bruce Alexander, terror expert Art Harris, investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Brian Levin,
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Speaker 1: director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism.
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Speaker 1: And John Pashynski, a member there at the congregation whose
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Speaker 1: wife was scheduled to be there that morning his friends
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Speaker 1: were shooting victims. Mr Pashnski, again, thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us since this has happened. How has it affected
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Speaker 1: your wife? Um, we're all devastated. Of course, she's so
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Speaker 1: relieved that she's here. Our children who and their families
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Speaker 1: who live in Philadelphia. Actually, as soon as they heard
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Speaker 1: the news packed their carson drove to Pittsburgh, so they've
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Speaker 1: been with us. UM. She talks already about experiencing some
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Speaker 1: degree of survivor guilt because she felt that she should
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Speaker 1: have been there or would have been there, And everyone
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Speaker 1: who survived has to ask or is asking themselves why
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Speaker 1: then and not me? And would things have been different
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Speaker 1: if I had been there? Um. So we've had a
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Speaker 1: lot of discussions around those issues. Our congregation is a
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Speaker 1: very tight knit congregation. We met yesterday at local church
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Speaker 1: was kind enough to give us space to meet for
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Speaker 1: the first time together as a congregation. We expected on
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Speaker 1: such short notice maybe fifty to sixty people would show up.
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Speaker 1: My guess is that we had between three hundred three
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Speaker 1: hundred fifty people there. So the congregation is of course devastated. Uh.
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Speaker 1: The man who was killed, Cherry ri Ben, the Wits
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Speaker 1: and they're conrecant who was seriously injured, were very active
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Speaker 1: members and so this hits us very hard. And of
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Speaker 1: course now we have to start planning on how we
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Speaker 1: move forward. I want to follow up on something you
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Speaker 1: said about your wife and feeling guilt because she survived
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Speaker 1: and was not there for the shooting. You know, Dr
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall is with me. I renounced like Alan's joining
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Speaker 1: us from l a the issue of survivor guilt, but
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Speaker 1: also a false sense of complacency. Dr Bethany, because I
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Speaker 1: was just thinking back on this Sunday morning. You know,
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Speaker 1: I need a lot of work, Dr Bethany, and so
14:43
Speaker 1: I make sure that I have the twins front and
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Speaker 1: center every Sunday morning to help me in my project
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Speaker 1: call self improvement. And uh, I was just thinking about
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Speaker 1: this past Sunday, about how there were good smells coming
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Speaker 1: out of the church kitchen and everything was toasty inside
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Speaker 1: and chilly outside, and all of our church friends gathered
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Speaker 1: together early in the morning, and that feeling you feel
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Speaker 1: like everything is okay. And to have that ripped apart
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Speaker 1: in this manner by this man. As a matter of fact,
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Speaker 1: listen to this. Bethany Lage Synagogue shooter Robert Bowers grew
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Speaker 1: up in this area, attending a local high school in
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Speaker 1: recent years, leaving an unremarkable impression on his neighbors. Quiet,
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Speaker 1: though not unfriendly, they say, a truck driver who kept
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Speaker 1: odd hours. Start contrast to what we know about him. Tonight,
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Speaker 1: I saw his photo and I said, that's my neighbor. Neighbors,
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Speaker 1: say Bowers offered no hints about the bloodshed he's accused
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Speaker 1: of unleashing. Carrie Owen's was his next door neighbor for
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Speaker 1: the past two years. How upsetting is it to know
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Speaker 1: that you live next door to the guy who's been
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Speaker 1: charged in this area? Upsetting knowing that someone that had
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Speaker 1: not much hate was on the other side of my wall.
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Speaker 1: Officials suggested a possible motive in the horrific attack. There's
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Speaker 1: no indication that, uh, he's working with anyone else, and
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Speaker 1: so we have charged it and are treating it as
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Speaker 1: as a hate crime, but continue to investigate. Dr Bethany
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Speaker 1: even his neighbors were lulled into a sense of security
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Speaker 1: and complacency. Well, we all have to have a sense
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Speaker 1: of false safety to get through our day. Otherwise we
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Speaker 1: would all be anxious and panicky as we go to
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Speaker 1: school and as we go to our jobs. But you know,
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Speaker 1: I'm not so sure synagogues or churches are such a
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Speaker 1: safe place. My dad is a Baptist minister, and I
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Speaker 1: grew up in the church, and my experience is that congregants,
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Speaker 1: congregants of a church or synagogue are essentially a very good,
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Speaker 1: loving group of people, and that attracts a lot of
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Speaker 1: envy and a lot of a lot of hatred despite
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Speaker 1: what your religious persuasion is. And I'll tell you what
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Speaker 1: I mean. These mass murderers are envious. They have a
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Speaker 1: grudged hold against society. They feel that everybody's against them. Um.
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Speaker 1: One of the ways to look at it is that
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Speaker 1: the mass murder is an injustice collector who spends a
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Speaker 1: great deal of time feeling resentful about real or imagined
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Speaker 1: rejections and ruminating on past humiliations. He has a paranoid
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Speaker 1: world view with chronic feelings of social persecution, envy, and
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Speaker 1: grudge holding. He's tormented by the beliefs that privileged others
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Speaker 1: are enjoying life all you can eat buffet while he
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Speaker 1: must peer through the window, an outside loner, always looking
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Speaker 1: in dger Beth. And he just stopped for a moment
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Speaker 1: because you're actually giving me chills on my arms thinking
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Speaker 1: of this guy. I mean, it's all I can do
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Speaker 1: to raise the twins and work all day, work into
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Speaker 1: the night, and I don't even think about what other
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Speaker 1: people may or may not be doing. I'm just trying
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Speaker 1: to keep the bus in the middle of the road.
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Speaker 1: That you know are you hearing what she is saying
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Speaker 1: to Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study
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Speaker 1: of Hate and Extremism, is that striking a chord with
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Speaker 1: you regarding these hate crimes. Absolutely. One of the things
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Speaker 1: we know about symbolic violent perpetrators is they come in
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Speaker 1: three types, and there's a combination. The first is ideologically motivated.
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Speaker 1: Second is psychologically dangerous, and that's across the spectrum that
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Speaker 1: goes from sociopath uh to some kind of instability even
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Speaker 1: to cognitive impairment. And the third is personal benefit or revenge.
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Speaker 1: Goes right on what we've heard from our prior guests.
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Speaker 1: UM and with respect to hate crime offenders, my friends
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Speaker 1: Jack Levin and Jack McDevitt, two of the best academics
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Speaker 1: in this business, they came up with a typology and
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Speaker 1: the first is the thrill offender. UH. That's a young
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Speaker 1: person often acting in a group. UH. They're seeking peer
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Speaker 1: validation and some kind of in group identity. So the
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Speaker 1: outgroup that they're attacking doesn't really matter that much as
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Speaker 1: long as you're an outgroup, because it's for some kind
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Speaker 1: of in group bonding. The second type is the retaliatory
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Speaker 1: or defensive offender. That person might be responding to a
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Speaker 1: terror attack, or might be responding to a change in
19:26
Speaker 1: neighborhood demographics with a new family moving in. And the
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Speaker 1: third type is the mission offender. And unlike the others
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Speaker 1: who have a switch turned on which then has the
19:41
Speaker 1: negative stereotypes bubble to the top, you have that that
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Speaker 1: switch turned on first, either the thrill or or the
19:47
Speaker 1: defensive or or or fearful response that the mission offender,
19:51
Speaker 1: like the one we saw in Pittsburgh, the hardcore neo Nazi.
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Speaker 1: Uh those folks, the switch has always turned on and
19:59
Speaker 1: they ripped resent the smallest cadreing of hate crime offenders,
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Speaker 1: but when they do act, you're the most filling, and
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Speaker 1: they tend to take up about of the rather narrow
20:11
Speaker 1: sliver of hate crime homicide every year. Do you know
20:20
Speaker 1: another parent or a soon to be parent and expecting
20:23
Speaker 1: mom or dad, Please don't give them another onesie or
20:28
Speaker 1: another toy that you know is going to end up
20:31
Speaker 1: in the garage or at the goodwill. Give them something
20:35
Speaker 1: that matters. And what matters the most protecting your child.
20:39
Speaker 1: What do you love the most in the world your children?
20:41
Speaker 1: I do, and I will do anything to protect my twins.
20:47
Speaker 1: Go to crime stops here dot com. It is a
20:52
Speaker 1: five part series with action information that you can use
20:58
Speaker 1: to change your life and protect your child's life. Payments
21:02
Speaker 1: starting at six. Give that as a gift, not another
21:06
Speaker 1: one that you're a plastic toy. Give them something that matters.
21:11
Speaker 1: Find out how to protect your child out and about
21:14
Speaker 1: at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store,
21:17
Speaker 1: in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection
21:20
Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online cyber security. Oh yes,
21:26
Speaker 1: my children are online, and you better bet I'm doing
21:29
Speaker 1: everything within my power to protect them. Payments starting six.
21:36
Speaker 1: I would much rather have that than yet another plastic
21:40
Speaker 1: baby doll, or God forbid, a toy gun just what
21:45
Speaker 1: I don't want. Joined the Justice Nation. Crime stops here
21:50
Speaker 1: dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The calls started
22:02
Speaker 1: coming in around forty minutes ago that there was an
22:04
Speaker 1: active shooter. We were told that there were multiple possibly injured,
22:08
Speaker 1: and that there was a shooter who was shooting outside
22:10
Speaker 1: of the front of the building towards officers. We heard
22:13
Speaker 1: them yell for officers to get back. We heard the
22:16
Speaker 1: officers yelling to use their vehicles as a shield. In
22:20
Speaker 1: order to retreat back to Murray Avenue for them to
22:23
Speaker 1: be in a safe area. You are hearing our friend
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Speaker 1: at k d K A t V Pittsburgh, Megan Schill,
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Speaker 1: are reporting on one of the worst shootings ever in
22:34
Speaker 1: a place of worship that has just gone down, killing eleven,
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Speaker 1: many others wounded as these people were praying they were
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Speaker 1: gunned down. I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. But what do we know?
22:49
Speaker 1: Was there a warning? What can we glean from learning
22:52
Speaker 1: about the shooter? Listen? Authorities rated bowers apartment in the
22:56
Speaker 1: southern Pittsburgh suburbs sweeping for any signs of explosives. Bower
23:00
Speaker 1: social media activity also will be heavily scrutinized. He used
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Speaker 1: the social media site gab dot com and in one
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Speaker 1: post uploading a picture of three handguns. It's unclear if
23:09
Speaker 1: they are the same guns you Saturday. Bowers also visited
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Speaker 1: this home in a nearby community so often some thought
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Speaker 1: he lived here and say he kept to himself it's sickening.
23:19
Speaker 1: Did really is sickning? He come out and smoke and
23:21
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be about it. There was no highs snow boys.
23:24
Speaker 1: You are hearing from our friends at NBC that was
23:27
Speaker 1: Ron Mott reporting. What do we know about him? We
23:30
Speaker 1: know that he claimed the lives of Elving over pure hatred,
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Speaker 1: hatred of the Jewish community, hatred of Jews, screaming out
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Speaker 1: all Jews must die, before he unleashed a hell of
23:41
Speaker 1: bullets to Bruce Alexander, terror expert joining us with a
23:45
Speaker 1: career in counter terrorism, intelligence, security, homeland security for over
23:50
Speaker 1: thirty years, also from the executive protection details of several
23:54
Speaker 1: Cabinet members. Bruce, thank you for being with us. What
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Speaker 1: do you make of the current suggestion that armed guards
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Speaker 1: be at the synagogue? Nancy? Unfortunately, that's a uh simplistic answer,
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Speaker 1: although perhaps understandable, and these these heightened times that we
24:14
Speaker 1: want something to to strike back with or protect ourselves with.
24:18
Speaker 1: The reason why I say that that, unfortunately is a
24:21
Speaker 1: limited answer, is that we identifying these particular threats and
24:26
Speaker 1: preventing them from occurring is the desired course of action.
24:31
Speaker 1: The armed guard is a great reactionary tool, and that
24:34
Speaker 1: means you're confronting and you're stopping this at the doors
24:37
Speaker 1: of the synagogue. The challenger there is this today is
24:41
Speaker 1: one gunman. But what do you do when you have
24:43
Speaker 1: a Columbine type of situation where you've got a pair
24:46
Speaker 1: of gunmen who come in and attack a synagogue or
24:49
Speaker 1: another soft target. The reality is that while there may
24:53
Speaker 1: be a place for armed security there, we need layers
24:56
Speaker 1: of protection, defense and depth that seeks to identify us
25:00
Speaker 1: that's far out hardened the target, meaning the synagogue at
25:03
Speaker 1: the doors. And then internally we've got policies and procedures
25:06
Speaker 1: that all of them work in concert. Relying on a
25:10
Speaker 1: lone arm security officer assuming their train to the standards
25:13
Speaker 1: the counter and active shooter means you also got a
25:16
Speaker 1: single point of failure uh there that that and the
25:19
Speaker 1: determined restaurant could overcome. So it may be part of
25:22
Speaker 1: the debate, it may be part of the solution, but
25:25
Speaker 1: it's not the only solution to John Paschinski joining me
25:28
Speaker 1: a member of the congregation that was under a deadly attack.
25:34
Speaker 1: His wife scheduled to be there that morning, but as
25:37
Speaker 1: fate would have it, she did not attend. Their friends
25:41
Speaker 1: were victims of the synagogue shooting. Johnny, would be very
25:44
Speaker 1: difficult for me to have armed guards posted at our
25:49
Speaker 1: place of worship. I appreciate the good intentions but that
25:53
Speaker 1: would be I don't know what to think. How's the
25:57
Speaker 1: congregation responding to that? Well, we have them disgusting yet
26:00
Speaker 1: and I cannot speak for the congregation, but personally, having
26:05
Speaker 1: armed guards as a routine matter to at a place
26:10
Speaker 1: of worship is anathema for the goal of what occurs
26:14
Speaker 1: inside Our synagogues are moths and our churches those are
26:18
Speaker 1: places of peace. And to say that only people can
26:22
Speaker 1: only engage in the peaceful activity of communing with their
26:29
Speaker 1: God in the way that they choose has to be
26:33
Speaker 1: under armed God guard is a very poor statement about
26:39
Speaker 1: the condition of this country. What we need to do
26:42
Speaker 1: is figure out a way to ratchet down the type
26:47
Speaker 1: of rahetheric and the environment that makes people like this
26:52
Speaker 1: gunman feel empowered and uh and able to go to
26:58
Speaker 1: do these actives. We have to start teaching tolerance, not hate.
27:04
Speaker 1: Most of us do that, but it has to be
27:07
Speaker 1: more of a societal thing. We have to stop the
27:11
Speaker 1: killing and the mental attitude that creates in us versus
27:17
Speaker 1: them mentality. Well, you know what, I agree with you completely,
27:22
Speaker 1: but I wonder is that possible. I mean, murder and
27:26
Speaker 1: hatred goes all the way back to Kine and Abel
27:30
Speaker 1: and for absolutely no reason. There doesn't have to be
27:34
Speaker 1: a reason. And uh aren't Harris investigative reporter. You and
27:38
Speaker 1: I have been together in so many murder trials. We
27:41
Speaker 1: know that very often we say why, why? Why did
27:43
Speaker 1: this happen? A lot of times there's not a why.
27:45
Speaker 1: Hold on art quick question to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics,
27:49
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet
27:53
Speaker 1: on Amazon. J Scott, right now, what is the purpose
27:58
Speaker 1: of the FORENS collection of evidence? I mean, I know
28:02
Speaker 1: this guy is going to go to trial, but there
28:04
Speaker 1: are eyewitnesses, there are his posts on gab dot com,
28:08
Speaker 1: which is a whole another can of worms, Bethany, but
28:11
Speaker 1: there's overwhelming evance. So what are they doing right now,
28:14
Speaker 1: Joe Scott? They're going over the scene with a fine toothcomb,
28:17
Speaker 1: documenting his movements. But we can do that relative to, say,
28:21
Speaker 1: for instance, the disbursement of spent ammunition, those concentrations to
28:25
Speaker 1: those areas. They're also reconstructing the actual shooting itself, the
28:30
Speaker 1: dynamics of the shooting, the trajectories of the bullets. And
28:33
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Nancy, the reason we
28:36
Speaker 1: spend so much time at the scene working scenes. Even
28:39
Speaker 1: though this guy has been caught the threat at this moment,
28:42
Speaker 1: Tom has been you know, negated. He is going to
28:45
Speaker 1: go to trial. We we can't pick and choose those
28:47
Speaker 1: cases which we will and will not do thoroughly. We
28:50
Speaker 1: have to cover everything because no telling what kind of
28:53
Speaker 1: questions will come up in the event that you know,
28:56
Speaker 1: this thing is going to go to trial, and I
28:57
Speaker 1: suspect that it will, well, we know this, We know
29:00
Speaker 1: that there will be a trial. We know that it
29:04
Speaker 1: will probably be after a long period of time because
29:07
Speaker 1: it's going to be a complicated case forensically. But what
29:10
Speaker 1: do we know about this guy? To Aunt Harris, Emmy
29:14
Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter with Crime online dot com, aren't
29:18
Speaker 1: what do we know about him other than he talked
29:20
Speaker 1: incessantly on gab dot com. I was thinking about gab
29:24
Speaker 1: dot com when Dr Bethany said he was a standout
29:27
Speaker 1: in his community or trying to be Is that his community?
29:31
Speaker 1: And why did they allow the hate speech? Number one?
29:35
Speaker 1: But more so, why didn't they report it? This was
29:39
Speaker 1: not a Facebook or Twitter. Atmosphere is a website that
29:43
Speaker 1: was set up by defectors from that world, so that
29:47
Speaker 1: people like white supremacists and others arrangement folks they don't discriminate,
29:51
Speaker 1: can say anything they want basically on this place. And
29:54
Speaker 1: so he felt that he was free to unleash his litery,
29:57
Speaker 1: all his hate from his venom, as a many other
30:01
Speaker 1: in the white supremacy movements that do online in their
30:04
Speaker 1: little conclaves around and that was his place of expression.
30:08
Speaker 1: I was just getting ready for the day and I
30:11
Speaker 1: heard the gunfire. I heard, um, what sounded like a
30:13
Speaker 1: semi automatic weapon, and I hollered down to Ken. He
30:16
Speaker 1: thought it might be construction um. But by the time
30:19
Speaker 1: I got downstairs and started to get my kids downstairs,
30:21
Speaker 1: there were already police officers on the scene and they
30:24
Speaker 1: were starting to draw their guns, and so I got
30:26
Speaker 1: everybody down into the basement. We've heard five repetitive shots.
30:30
Speaker 1: I stepped up for which I heard three additional shots,
30:32
Speaker 1: and within the minutes police started to arrive. Police started
30:36
Speaker 1: to park in front of our house and they were
30:38
Speaker 1: shielding themselves with their car, so we realized the situation
30:41
Speaker 1: was pretty serious. You're hearing from the neighbors there in
30:45
Speaker 1: the count near the congregation where Loving lost their lives
30:48
Speaker 1: in the last day because of hatred straight out to
30:53
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho analysts out of l a
30:57
Speaker 1: Way and Dr Bethany Well, this screen had very poor
31:01
Speaker 1: social relationships. You know, I've been watching all the coverage,
31:04
Speaker 1: and you really know how to put perfume on a
31:07
Speaker 1: pig poor personal relationships. He was a nut that lived
31:12
Speaker 1: in isolation and was completely consumed with hatred his pretend
31:18
Speaker 1: friends were online on dab dot com that I guess
31:21
Speaker 1: would respond to his hatred that he's spewed about Jews.
31:26
Speaker 1: You are absolutely right, Nancy. I guess where I was
31:29
Speaker 1: going with this is that people keep connecting this to
31:32
Speaker 1: the politics in our country and politics aside. There's an
31:36
Speaker 1: individual psychology that leads to this kind of crime and
31:40
Speaker 1: and there's nobody to blame by him. And maybe I
31:43
Speaker 1: have been exacerbated by hatred in our country. But this
31:47
Speaker 1: guy was a loner. He was envious, He had this
31:50
Speaker 1: perceived sense of injustice. He had a pathological chip on
31:54
Speaker 1: his shoulder. I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that
31:58
Speaker 1: he was rejected socially many areas of his life other
32:01
Speaker 1: than on this stupid GAB platform. Perpetrators gather on these
32:06
Speaker 1: social media sites, just like you know pedophiles gather on
32:10
Speaker 1: these sites. I mean, people with certain types of pathologies
32:13
Speaker 1: tend to cluster together. And this gab site is somebody
32:17
Speaker 1: as a site that's going to to gather men with
32:21
Speaker 1: these types of pathologies. But this guy was envious. What
32:24
Speaker 1: more beautiful places there than a church, People gathering to worship,
32:29
Speaker 1: enjoying each other, everyone from a six year old baby
32:33
Speaker 1: or i'm sorry, a six day old baby to a
32:36
Speaker 1: ninety seven year old woman enjoying their relationships with each other.
32:41
Speaker 1: And at the very very heart of it all, he
32:43
Speaker 1: went in in some grandiose, terroristic type of way to
32:48
Speaker 1: destroy that which he cannot have in his own life,
32:52
Speaker 1: and it's love. Destroying the love that people have with
32:55
Speaker 1: each other. He couldn't take it, and he took amount. Today,
32:59
Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Synagogue survivors are describing how a hero rabbi
33:05
Speaker 1: pushed them into a storage closet and save their lives,
33:09
Speaker 1: turning out the lights of the gunman would not see
33:11
Speaker 1: them when he came stalking by looking for more victims.
33:15
Speaker 1: It was Rabbi Jonathan Pearlman who pushed four congregates into
33:19
Speaker 1: a closet when Bowers opened fire. He was leading the
33:22
Speaker 1: newl Congregation in the basement of the Tree of Life
33:25
Speaker 1: Synagogue that day. The fatally opened the closet door then
33:31
Speaker 1: went back into the room. What happened in those minutes
33:35
Speaker 1: they were hiding in the closet only they can tell
33:38
Speaker 1: us that, But we do know that zach Weiss father
33:42
Speaker 1: was inside the synagogue. My father was filling in assisting
33:47
Speaker 1: the rabbi doing various parts of the service. He was
33:49
Speaker 1: under the weather, but both were present at the service.
33:52
Speaker 1: Just the first initial sound was described as a car crash,
33:55
Speaker 1: just a very loud noise, but there were a couple
33:57
Speaker 1: of congregants that investigated just to see if that was
34:00
Speaker 1: something else. Maybe a senior citizen had fallen, maybe a
34:04
Speaker 1: hard piece of equipment fell, So they went down. But
34:06
Speaker 1: the next multiple sounds were they were they were unmistakable,
34:10
Speaker 1: and from there it was treated as an active shooter situation.
34:13
Speaker 1: And with the layout of the Tree of Life or
34:15
Speaker 1: less same congregation, there are actually three synagogues that take
34:19
Speaker 1: up space, and there were actually three services simultaneously, there
34:23
Speaker 1: was not a risk. As previously reported. There were three
34:25
Speaker 1: separate services that were going on at the exact same time.
34:29
Speaker 1: So from the Tree of Life aspects, since that sre
34:32
Speaker 1: my father is a member of they were able to
34:34
Speaker 1: protect and go. Some of them were able to hide
34:37
Speaker 1: for cover, some were were not were unable to do so.
34:40
Speaker 1: They had just started to pray when they heard that
34:43
Speaker 1: crashing sound that Zach Wise was describing to NBC. They
34:47
Speaker 1: had a crashing e stapt from upstairs. They look out
34:50
Speaker 1: the door to see a body on the staircase. We
34:54
Speaker 1: also know that the synagogue shooter do in court. Our
34:59
Speaker 1: hair is joining me. Why why is he in court?
35:01
Speaker 1: This is the first time that we will see him
35:04
Speaker 1: and the judges, and I cannot imagine joining me. Is
35:10
Speaker 1: John Paschinski, a member of the congregation. Brian Levin and
35:13
Speaker 1: just got Morgan, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Art Harris, and Bruce Alexander.
35:18
Speaker 1: Bruce Alexander. I mean, I was speaking with John about
35:22
Speaker 1: stopping the hatred. But the reality is hate is with us,
35:27
Speaker 1: and people act on that hate. I don't think we
35:29
Speaker 1: are ever. It pains me to say it, but the
35:33
Speaker 1: devil is here. He is alive and working through people
35:39
Speaker 1: like this shooter. And I don't think we're going to
35:41
Speaker 1: get rid of him. All we can do is fight him. Now.
35:46
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of you on this panel
35:49
Speaker 1: are way too lofty and too much of an intellectual
35:52
Speaker 1: to admit there is a devil and there is evil,
35:55
Speaker 1: But I'm putting it out there. So you tell me,
35:57
Speaker 1: Bruce Alexander, you're the terror expert, why are we gonna do?
36:00
Speaker 1: Because I don't want to hear this again. I don't
36:03
Speaker 1: want to know this happened again. And so here's what
36:05
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. Unfortunately, the reality of it, because I
36:08
Speaker 1: think you spoke to it, evil exists, and evil is
36:10
Speaker 1: going to exist, and evil is going to continue to
36:12
Speaker 1: exist in and in this in this lifetime. For motives,
36:16
Speaker 1: none of us can can understand. The reality is is
36:20
Speaker 1: this first and foremost, we must accept that these are
36:23
Speaker 1: the times that we live in. Uh. It doesn't matter
36:26
Speaker 1: how we got here, the source of that, and you're
36:29
Speaker 1: absolutely right your previous comment very debatable how we got here,
36:33
Speaker 1: but from the reality is we're here. So what we
36:36
Speaker 1: have to do is learn to accept um that we
36:39
Speaker 1: live in these particular times of sad indictment. The best
36:42
Speaker 1: thing from a security standpoint that we can accept in
36:46
Speaker 1: terms of addressing the situation is understanding that we're going
36:50
Speaker 1: to mitigate this. Uh that that's that's the desired outcome.
36:54
Speaker 1: Because for every one of these psychopaths, no matter what
36:58
Speaker 1: their ideology is, motive, whatever creatures are in their minds
37:03
Speaker 1: in the dark of the night. Um, it's not gonna
37:05
Speaker 1: be this guy, It's gonna be another guy. You know.
37:07
Speaker 1: I I'm reminded of the similarities between this and the
37:11
Speaker 1: Birmingham bombing, you know, forty years ago. Uh, no guns there,
37:16
Speaker 1: but a determined person attackers here saying bent ideology, used
37:21
Speaker 1: explosives here. So what we've got to do is understand
37:24
Speaker 1: we've got to mitigate this, but we've got to have
37:26
Speaker 1: a response. We don't have to accept this. There is
37:29
Speaker 1: a big difference. I'm not saying capitulate, but we have
37:32
Speaker 1: to understand that. Let's build a response, active response that
37:36
Speaker 1: involves all the stakeholders here. Look, this is a larger
37:40
Speaker 1: problem than um just what manifested here. We need to
37:44
Speaker 1: have all stakeholders, whether it's law enforcement, whether it's the
37:49
Speaker 1: the FBI, whether it's the guests that you have on
37:52
Speaker 1: the show today, whether it's it's an academic, the psychological standpoint,
37:57
Speaker 1: the first responder, and of course the community, the congregant
38:01
Speaker 1: uh that have to be involved in coming together with practical,
38:05
Speaker 1: workable solutions. Yeah. And to Brian I I hear you bruise.
38:09
Speaker 1: To Brian Levin direct with the Center for the Study
38:12
Speaker 1: of Hate and Extremism, Brian, I think the tolerance for
38:17
Speaker 1: hate talk for hate speech that is waiting to bubble over.
38:21
Speaker 1: I mean, early Christians had to meet in secret or
38:23
Speaker 1: they would be killed. Jews to this day in parts
38:27
Speaker 1: of the world meet in secret. They had to hide
38:30
Speaker 1: during the World War. Is that what we're coming to.
38:33
Speaker 1: We have to have armed guards or we have to
38:35
Speaker 1: meet in secret to worship? Brian, I hope God. But
38:40
Speaker 1: and well, well, I think that the on guard answer
38:43
Speaker 1: is a bit simplistic. It it may be part of
38:46
Speaker 1: of a solution that includes many fascisms. What were your
38:50
Speaker 1: learning in the last hours. Prosecutors confirmed they will seek
38:54
Speaker 1: the death penalty for the synagogue shooter. As court appearance happening,
39:00
Speaker 1: He's facing twenty nine counts, twenty two of them carry
39:04
Speaker 1: the death penalty. Nothing We'll bring back these victims. Nancy
39:12
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,